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The Logi Code. Guide to Logi Success. Updated for Uprising

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RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:10:00 - [1] - Quote THE LOGI CODE, Five R's updated for Uprising - Rezz Pick up your teammates - Repair Rep their armor - ResupplyAmmo, grenades, keeps the game moving - ReinforceBackup your team, eradicate the red dots - RallyCreate backup spawns or spot targets So you want to be a Logibro. Where to begin? First Understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character you are not to be playing alone. While you can improvise the scout or assault role you in no way replace them. You are a jack of all trades and the master of 1 or 2. While you will make your play style work for you, as there is no one way to do things, I have found that these suggestions seem to help the most. Figure out your play style to know your weapon preference. Then stay with your team. You are not Rambo - a Logi is an easy target. End your lone wolf practices You are slower = easier to hit. You have a bigger hitbox = easier to hit. You have no side arm = weapon limitation (except for proto Amarr) so you must be comfortable fighting at any distance and find a way to make it work for you. You have no backup, you are the backup. You'll survive better when with a group and benefit your group by being able to repair them or even rezz them right back onto the battlefield. Having said all that you should also know that because Dust514 is a game of diversity you can stack modules of many types to enhance your strengths, neutralize your weaknesses, or create unique dropsuits that are only effective only in a specific situation. The Role of Support Currently the Logi is the only character that can carry more than one piece of equipment,that is the draw of the class. As such your are expected to carry certain items: a nanite injector and a repair tool are the most basic. The nanohive, however, is the most demanded at this point because of the low amounts of ammo resupply points on the field. Currently most assault characters will be carrying one of these to help themselves because of the lack of dedicated Logis with adequate nanohives or even the basic. In addition to the basic equipment, and as your team needs require, you will have other equipment open to you, which will be covered later in the guide. The Bonuses of Being a Logi The individual CLASS bonus of wearing a certain kind of logistics suit is 1hp/sec per level, up to 5. You will have a natural armor healing bonus, it is nice, it does not replace a repair gun but it is nice to have. Note: leveling up one suit class for a race does not transfer that class bonus to another logi dropsuit type of a different race. Example: Leveling up Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit to lvl 5 will in no way affect the repair rate of a lvl 1 Amarr Logistics dropsuit. The bonuses do not stack. The Racial Bonus Depending on what race of dropsuit you have chosen will determine another automatic bonus for your logistics career. And since this also deals greatly with the dropsuit capabilities themselves the proGÇÖs and cons of each raceGÇÖs dropsuit will be covered. Amarr. +5% efficiency to dropsuit repair modules, up to 25%. The Amarr Logistics Dropsuit is the most middle ground suit that exists. In its basic form it has 2 High/ 2 Low/ and 2 Equipment. It is half assault and half Logi. It has bonuses to its primary stats in health and stamina but takes a hit in speed and overall slot count and equipment count for the bonus of the proto level he gets a side arm and 3/3/3. Not that great, and too great a sacrifice for the comparative loss of 1H/1L/2Eslots most balance to 12 slots. The higher initial HP is a benefit but not all that impressive when it can easily be matched by adding an armor/shields mod to any slot of one of the other suit models. Caldari. +5% efficiency to dropsuit shield modules, up to 25%. A subject of major griping on the forums is the ability of this suit to shield tank. Filling the 5 High Slots with shield extenders gives the Caldari Logistics Suit the highest shield HP in the game. Some assault slayers have moved to this class just to capitalize on the tanking ability while filling the low slots with speed modules. This build is a good choice for those who like to shield tank. Shield tanking offers a quick regeneration of hit points and lacks any speed or scanning penalty at this time. Overall a good choice for a Logi. 5H/3L/4E at proto. Gallente. +5% efficiency to dropsuit cpu/pg, up to 25% JUST for equipment. The polar opposite of the Caldari. Many Low slots, a few high slots, but balanced to give you the one of the greatest Logi possibilities in the game. The high allowances for gear means that he can hold almost any gear at the highest levels making him a prime choice for a support Logi that has all the tricks: injector, hive, repper, scanner, deployable shield, or whatever. The low slots allow for armor tanking or great module stacking for specific builds for hacking, sensors, sprinting, ect. A great choice for a logi build. The versatility that the character offers lends itself to specific situational builds quite well. 3H/5L/4E
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:19:00 - [2] - Quote Minmatar. +5% to hacking speed, up to 25%. This is the Logi from the previous beta builds. Though the stats have been altered and other options removed every Logi is compared to this one, the original logi with 12 slots. The racial bonus is decent, it plays to the idea that the Logi will be with the group so whenever the group hits an objective, turret, resupply, or whatever he can leave the defense to the slayers and hack the point faster than anyone else. This may come into play more when eWar starts taking a bigger role in the game. Lower shields, better armor, and faster movement speed allows him to stay with the roving packs a little better than the other Logis. A versatile, well balanced build as well with 4H/ 4L/ 4E at proto level. A good all around choice for a Logi. Normally what I like to run. Each has a different playstyle and definite bonuses to their class and race. Choose wisely. STAGE 1 Character Building: WEAPONS Find the Weapon you like to use and that you are most effective with. Here are a few suggestions that I have found playing as a Logi: NOTE: Your Logi has ONE weapon slot- make it count. Put some skills into upgrading it. The best weapon for a Logi is the AR, SCAR, or a MD (when the targeting gets fixed) AR - the Assault Rifle is always the easiest and most standard piece of equipment on the battlefield. Used by about 80% of the players you can't really go wrong with it. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill to master. Gek or Exile AR is great for a Logi, the TAC AR (TAR) is a semi-auto high damage rifle that is god in every situation. + can go 1v1 and live in medium to short range battle + most versatile weapon with many variants + easy to fit - you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team, or use a TAR to take them out before they get to you. SCAR GÇô the Scrambler Rifle is very similar to the AR but falls under the laser variant for bonuses. The basic version is semi-automatic (fires when you pull the trigger) or can be charged up to deal an intense amount of damage. An Advanced version is fully auto without the ability to charge up. It is extremely effective against shields and pretty accurate. You will get more assists than kills with this weapon. Decent ACOG scope. + erases shields + charge up for more damage + scope is nice - not good against armor - overheats pretty quickly without higher levels in the skill - difficult to 1v1 with this as your only weapon - no militia variant MD - Mass Driver. The Doctor of area denial, damaging the masses and finishing off the wounded. Difficult to master and to start out with. A direct shot is powerful, but most of the time you will be aiming at the feet of your opponents to be specific in damaging certain areas or enemies. The blast radius is currently bugged and the MD took a major nerf from the last build. Those who use it are a dying breed until the physics or radius get fixed. + possibly damage many people at once. (mix in some flux grenades for a fun time) + proto is high damage - low initial damage (ADV and proto level pwn), not good for 1v1, short range, no militia variant - small blast radius with broken effect that leaves the weapon lacking its original purpose LZR - Laser rifle - NO in general unless you are proto Amarr. The gentleman's weapon. A tricky weapon to use and even more difficult to master. A raw beam of energy erases shields and causes panic in groups of shielding players. + damage at long range (though not as long as the TAR) + dmg mods can significantly increase the damage done near burnout. - low damage starting out, must keep beam on enemy, AND at short range YOU WILL DIE. It is less than worthless at short range, you might as well be be throwing food/squirrels/ or even your rifle as you have more of a chance to melee kill them than shoot them. Very difficult to use when your class requires you to be close to rezz and rep your team. - overheating can kill you - burnout suicide. - flare from firing through the iron sights make it difficult to accurately hit the other player. - no militia variant Shotty - Shotgun, hard for a slow logi to use, but deadly at short range and the best alternative in close quarters if you do not use the mass driver. + close range god gun. Finish off opponent when running to rez in a close quarters battle - range makes it worthless in open areas, difficult to back up your party SMG GÇô The distance nerf in uprising has made this weapon viable again. Still only in close quarters but itGÇÖs a bear at eating enemies up close. It is relegated to a sidearm for a reason, but should you have a build or two just for up close battles I wouldnGÇÖt say no. + effective against armor + fast reload speed - AR and Shotty beat it nearly every time. Sniper (NO)- as you are not doing your job, there are better suits for that type of build, Caldari Assault for one. Find one to focus on. Combinations are possible with the Amarr logi, (LZR, SMG) but I caution everyone taking that specific logistics class.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:26:00 - [3] - Quote Use the secondary skill upgrades to un-gimp yourself Grenades: A MUST. This is used as your secondary weapon. And with nanohives you wont always run out of these beauties. You must learn to cook these babies for insta-kills (one hit kills or OHK) - practice practice practice - these are your sidearm weapons (unless you are proto Amarr). Cooking means holding the grenade for a time before you throw it - or hold it and suicide. With the right timing this becomes a very effective weapon. Do not use the BPO nades, you cut yourself short by 1 (2 nades as opposed to the 3 of basic gear), and they are regularly sooooo cheap they are well worth the buy. Flux = shield burners, great for group support, but will not finish off opponents, choose wisely. You can either lead with these and finish off a player with a weapon that deletes armor or focus on shields with a SCAR to just support the team. A good combo is often these with the MD or AR. Locus = standard nade. Use a SCAR for a 1-2 combo or just use these as your backup sidearm. AV = Anti Vehicle nades, throw just above the vehicle - timing is difficult - and they don't work on anything else. They are hard hitting when you get to the higher levels. As a Logi you will most likely not skill into Swarm Launchers until much later in the game as it takes your whole 1 weapon slot (barring the Amarr Proto). These will be your tools of destruction for LAVGÇÖs and Tanks when they get close to your cover. Melee: If someone gets too close GÇô it is difficult to use, don't depend on it. And as a Logi your slower movement doesnGÇÖt lend itself to melee or nova knivesGÇª but hey if you want to roll that way go ahead GÇô I donGÇÖt suggest it but it could be a fun build to pull out at times. STAGE 2 Character Building: Basic Skills Skill Suggestions by priority (opinion), "defense is the best offense" Keeping yourself Alive, you can't help anyone if you're dead Your first purchases are going towards your Racial suit, weapon, and armor. Your equipment is fine for a while and will suffice for repping, rezzing, and resupply for the time being. Since advancing to the Logistics level requires maxing out a single race first and then moving into the logistics arena you need to decide your racial suit variant first. Will you go Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, or Minmatar? Each Basic suit type has itGÇÖs own bonuses in regards to slot layout. Your basic skills that you should focus on in the beginning will always be your passive skills. Skills that work no matter the suit or modules you are using. You should also note that there are certain prerequisites to get some of the skills. First Skills Dropsuit Armor Upgrades: +5% dropsuit armor per level GÇô maximize it Dropsuit Core Upgrades: +1% dropsuit cpu/pg GÇô maximize it Dropsuit Shield Upgrades: +5% dropsuit shield per level GÇô maximize it Grenades: lvl1 opens up new equipment Your Weapon to Advanced level: lvl 3 Choose 1 Logistics skill to Max: Repair Tool Operation or Nano Circuitry, maybe play around with the Active Scanner and Deployable Shield (coming soon), etc. This you will incorporate on your suits until you reach the Logistics level. STAGE 3 Choose Your Race primary focus Play every Medium racial variant to get an idea of the types of bonuses you would receive, and their strengths and weaknesses. You will see how you play with each and the future bonuses of the Logi class. It will take almost 2 million (1,865,920) skill points just to max that race to get to the Logistics class and another 63,000 to get just the first level and have extra equipment slots. Depending on whether you use boosters or not and how much you play that could take a month or more to get there. So, it is a commitment and you will need other skills in climbing to the top. The next few skills should be purchased as you can and while you are saving up for the Logistics level. Dropsuit Electronics: +5% dropsuit CPU GÇô expensive skill, purchase when fits are lacking Dropsuit Engineering: +5% dropsuit PG GÇô expensive skill, purchase when fits are lacking At this point you must choose which direction to go while maximizing your chosen Racial Medium. My suggestion is greater defense, and will be listed next. Why? Because you will need better stuff to go along with your awesome suits. A proto suit with militia gear is still pretty easy to kill. I would suggest either maximizing a few of these or at least getting them to the advanced level.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:34:00 - [4] - Quote - Reinforce - Depending on your Tank style invest in these which give a bonus for a module type and open up new levels of modules to use: Armor Plating: +2% armor module Armor Repair Systems: +5% repair module Shield Extension: +2% shield module Shield Recharging: +3% recharge module Choose your weapon and advance a useful trait for it (sharpshooter, reload, capacity, or the weapon class itself). A FPS game is based on killing the other team. Is the distance too great? Getting shot while reloading? Ammo shortage? You know where you are failing the most, take a few levels here to help change that about. You might also try another weapon or get the advanced/proto version of your weapon. Remember, light weapons only. Max Racial Medium and get Logi lvl 1 At this point you should be beefy enough to handle yourself and help the team. Moving to Max your Racial Suit is a good next move and then on to the Logistics Class. Your secondary skills will increase what you can do for the team, or you can choose to focus on yourself. Your First Builds if you made it to the Logi level Your basic builds should reflect the code with your weapon of choice and this basic equipment: Your first builds are 2 perishable lvl. 1 or greater Logi - Drop Suits with the three equipment slots #1- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Nanite Resupply (Nano-Hive), Repper (repair tool) #2- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Scanner or whatever, Repper (repair tool). 1and 2 (how I roll - find your play style) Whatever equipment you choose, or what type of builds you use, if you are a dedicated Logi these are the pieces of equipment that you should be carrying around. If you only have two you will build variations that suit the team that you follow. Injector and repper are usually best. I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows: High Slots: Shield Extender, Damage Modifier, or another Shield Extender Low Slots: Armor Repper, Armor, Cardiac Regulator, Shield Regulator, or CPU/PGU mods During your gameplay you will experiment with whether you are more of a tanking character or one that needs some speed, or even one that does better by just staying off the radar. I prefer tank, and it seems that most effective Logis do. STAGE 4 Choose an Area to Specialize - Rezzing, Rally, and Resupply- Nanites and Repper to lvl 3 to max. GÇô You should have one Logi skill maxed at this point. Get the second to lvl 3. At the logistics level you will be allowed to use more equipment, which means you will need better equipment too. Get some of your Logi skills to at least the advanced level with Nanocircuitry and Repair tool operation. Advancing to Proto Logi Logistics Dropsuit: Maxed This requires an ungodly amount of SP, over 3 million. It is not for the faint of heart to attempt. You are looking at a several weeks of play time and passive accumulation, with or without boosters, to hit this level. You will want to have many of your skills already at a satisfying place before attempting this Proto level. Then to get to the proto level is another 3 million (3,109,920) skill points = another 1 or 2 months depending on boosters and playtime Secondary skills for the Team - Rezz - to run to them Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades: 1% sprint/stamina/stamina recovery per level and opens up modules that affect sprinting and stamina. You could be a speedy Logi and speed tank. -Repair- Lvl 1 you should be using the Flux Repair tool. It gives you a longer stream and can keep you out of danger. Going proto gives you a two streamer... very nice, or one that can repair 105hp/sec at close range. -Rally- Get your active scanners or drop uplinks to a good level. A burst of red dots on peopleGÇÖs scanners will put the attention of other blue dots in the area over there. Or create a rally spawn for a fall back position. Secondaries for You (you selfish kitten - but highly recommended) These are all costly but helpful These other skills will help make the enemies around you pop up on your scanner even when they are not sprinting, identify spawn uplinks, and generally help with alerts before getting shot in the back. Precision Enhancement: +2% dropsuit scan precision (more easily scan others) Profile Dampening: -2% dropsuit scan profile (you disappear a bit more on the scanners) Range Amplification: +10% dropsuit scan radius (you scan a greater distance) Fun Things to Do Weapon: You need to kill in an FPS so maximize your weapon Demolitions: Play with this. You have the equipment slots to pack this stuff around. Proximity mines are only AV and you can lay down up to 6 of them at a time. Place them on paths highly traveled by LAV's to get free kills, and upgrade them to severely damage a HAV (Tank). Remote explosives are a good tool for defense. You can have up to three out at a time, 1 detonation signal will set them off in the order they were activated. Place at objectives - signal to stop/kill a hacker. Place in groups, at CRU's, or at corners and time the explosion for great fun. - you may get hate mail for this. Hacking: 3+ if you plan on being effective in skirmish. The Minmatar Logi suit already has a natural hacking bonus. This makes it godly. Spec into AV stuff. With a Caldari or Minmatar Logi the many high slots open for damage mods greatly increase the power of a proto swarmer, makes you the king of vehicle popping... but you canGÇÖt kill anything else. Or just really good grenades may be your bag.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 291	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:38:00 - [5] - Quote Listen to this man if you ever have any intention of fielding any kind of support whatsoever. Even for assaults who don't understand the usage of their equipment slot this is highly beneficial info, not to mention an understanding on what is going through the mind of the guy running behind you with that needle, repair tool, nanohive, etc. I would like to have all other suits read this to understand some of the demands that logis put on themselves already much less dealing with the demands of their squad mates and others on the field.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:39:00 - [6] - Quote STAGE 5 Fun Builds Logissaults: Logis that max out ganking power. Caldari and Minmatar can pull it off by stacking all their highs with damage mods and setting themselves up with armor or speed mods for an interesting Gank/Tank. A real glass cannon most of the time. Minmatar Logissault: 4dmg mods/ 3 armor mods 1 repair mod. Adv. Laser rifle and plenty of cover is fun for camping a spawn GÇô must out distance the enemies. Caldari Logissault: 5 shield extenders/ 2 speed mods. 1 Shotgun. Fast, hard hitting, and heavily shield tanked. You must also run away a lot. Gallente Logissault: 2 complex dmg mods/ 4 armor 1 repper. Repairing nano hives and a TAR or MD. Camping king. His repair usually out does the damage done and if not he can just back off for a moment. AmarrGÇª sorry. Build like any assault character. Infiltrators: Speed mods and Hacking Mods. Just run around taking objectives. Gallente and Minmatar only. AV or Antipersonnel: Mines and explosives play well for your character as you have all the equipment slots in the world. Use them, experiment with them. It can be really fun. Final Words There are many different builds and many different pieces of knowledge that could have been added. Like basic tactics - Move from cover to cover or "If you are dying before they do get more HP, if they are running off before you can kill them get damage mods." - not mine but very true. The trick is to find your playing style. Example: While the Shotty is awesome the Logi is slower than most players and also has a high scan level so the element of surprise is lost and you cannot evade as well - yet some people have figured out how to play well with it. I play as a medic. I prefer to cover the mid - short range offense of the group while the meat grinding heavies and troopers take the mid to long range guys and I rezz and repair when necessary. I like it and it suits me, as a Logi I am playing close to my team. I like the support role; however the Logi Proto suits are amazingly powerful because of the customization possibilities. You could turn your Logi into a dmg dealing speed freak or an AV tank. The possibilities are not covered in this guide. This is just for the beginners. Many other Logis have offered input and specifically made threads on different builds, basic tactics, drop uplinks, and many other subjects. This will get you started in the role. Experiment with weapons and setups to find your niche. The equipment bonus of the Logi is your advantage. Make a pile of proximity mines with remote explosives and see a tank just melt with surprise. There are different ways to make your squads work - you can be the one that tips the battle in your teams favor. READ AND UNDERSTAND These are two comments on what it means to be a Logibro, not a logistics class, a Logibro. If you do not understand then you are looking for a class with equipment and this guide is not for you. This is for the Logibro. Vyzion Evri wrote: From Vyzion Eyri, it fits with the selfless role of the Logibro: I will spend whatever costs necessary to ensure blueberries know they are never alone in the fight to overcome to pubstompers. There is no battlefield I will not walk, no mountain I will not scale, no LAV I will not stand in front of, if it means the blueberries realize that one day, one glorious day, they will be that man. That selfless logibro who gave up 500k in one game to prove to them that protobears may be tough, but it is the spirit that lasts. I will fight to the bitter end to pick up that fallen comrade, even if it means sacrificing myself by placing my shields between the body and the sniper I know is watching, hoping for a free kill, knowing that his rebirth will begin with the death of his savior. I will sink to the bottom of my wallet to ensure that blueberries will never cry for ammo, never hurt for armor, never sigh for bleeding out. I will work until the enemies see my selfless acts of purity as true Logibroness, and refuse to kill me. Sometimes, it is the simple fact that a hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple as placing a nanohive on a blueberry and telling him his killing streak wasn't over, that keeps me going. Chankk Saotome wrote: I have a dream... It is a dream deeply rooted in the Logibro dream. I have a dream, that one day amongst the constructs of Ashlands, waves of heavies and assaults will be trailed by golden lines of life saving armor repair, standing in the glow of restocking nanohives reaching out and crushing the foe before them. I have a dream. I have a dream. That downed bluedots will not be afraid or too impatient to wait for the aide of a nanite injector and even stay beside their fellow clone for supplemental armor repair. I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by their KDR but by the true benefit they offer their team, I have a dream today! I have a dream, that one day, from sweltering plains of Skim Junction to the frozen peaks of Manus, men and women will work together and aid one another to their fullest for the benefit of all above and beyond their own self interest, I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, even right there in the fields of Line Harvest little blue dots, and little green dots, will join hands as sisters and brothers in overcoming the overwhelming odds of reddot oppression to work in the full spirit of brotherhood, I HAVE A DREAM TODAY! __________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [7] - Quote As a last note: My OPINION only: I recommend using real money, buying aurum and purchasing the Lvl Logi suit to try it out. Some of the packs offer an easy to use Minmatar build with extra equipment slots - one of these would let you experiment with roles and using a class with lots of equipment options. An infinite Lvl 1 Logi build will be your base class for a long time to come. Also I recommend purchasing the blueprint (BPO) Shield extender, Armor, Armor repper, nanite injector, nanohive, drop uplink, CPU/GPU mods, and Cardiac Regulator. You will get better equipment eventually, but these will be your friends for a while and allow you to build up ISK for later purchases. You make enough ISK to support your builds, but this keeps me ISK positive. You do not have to do this. I just find it helpful and since I bought some merc packs a while back I have the aurum to burn on this and boosters. But, you do what you think is best. Many people are against this idea as it requires real money. And you do make enough ISK to cover every build and already have some free suits to fall back on. Again, I like this approach, but for others it is not a viable path. That is fine. You will get to play as a Logi without aurum. I never needed it, it was just nice to use. Once you outgrow the Lvl 1 items though you will look back at them and be able to decide if it was a good buy or not because you now usually just run advanced gear. Your choice, your money.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [8] - Quote This box is left here for the increase in size I expect from future Adjustments.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:42:00 - [9] - Quote Please, offer any insights you wish or ask any question. I would prefer that this thread is used for questions and suggestions for the guide. It is not meant to be an end all, just a working baseline for beginners.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 291	Posted - 2013.05.19 06:28:00 - [10] - Quote I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits). Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out.

Sana Rayya DA BOSS SQUAD 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 14:47:00 - [11] - Quote This is a very good guide and introduction to the class. I just started playiing Dust right before official release, but ended up investing in the Elite pack just to get the Logi BPO and I'm having a blast with it. Granted I am new, but I agree with everything said above aside from the importance of upgrading the Armor/Shield base skill as a "first" skill. I think this should depend on which racial class you are eventually going to skill into. The Proto suits hover around 90-180 base HP on shields or armor, so at Level V the benefit will range from +23-45HP - not significant compared to the HP from modules instead. Upgrading these two skills to V, in my humble opinion, should be low priority - much wiser to invest in skilling up your Logi equipment or modules first, then if you have the SP, gain them gradually if you wish. I plan to stat into Caldari suits and shield tank, so even if I keep Shield Upgrades at Level I I'll have 597HP - skilling it to 5 would give me 633HP, only a 7.5% increase to my overall shields at Level 1. An additional 23HP in armor will be even worse when compared to the SP investment - 609,400 SP to get either skill from I to V. Similarly, with the Dropsuit Core Upgrades, this might only be worth upgrading past Level II if your ideal Proto fitting is only a few points in excess of your available CPU/PG. At most, Logi Proto suits have 390 CPU and 78 PG, so is an additional 11.7 CPU and 2.34 PG for 572,100 SP really worth it unless you're already at Level IV Engineering/Electronics and only need an extra 3% to complete your fit? Of course, if you're over by only a few percent for both CPU and PG then it might be worth it, but again I think it should be an "as it suits your needs" skill rather than a first skill to max. I have a few questions pertaining to Logis that you guys probably know the answers to: 1) Is it true that Caldari Logis can get the highest shields in the game? BTW, I think you have a typo on the Caldari Proto slot count - should be 5H/4L/3E. 2) I have a love-hate relationship with flux grenades. Love them when I have them, hate them when the enemy does or I mess up my throw. Does the total damage done by flux grenades spread out over everyone in the splash radius, or is it 1200HP shield damage each person in the radius? Will flux grenades destroy Nanohives/Drop Uplinks/Mines etc? 3) Do most Caldari shield tanks just survive on speed upgrades in their Low slots rather than upping armor? Your "fun build" sounds interesting so long as I could avoid those flux grenades or laser weapons. 4) Are explosives worth skilling into? If i put a remote explosive on my Drop Uplink or Nanohive, will it also destroy the Drop Uplink or Hive in case it is overrun? 5) Your guide didn't make much mention of Drop Uplinks. Do you just run a forward scout to set up the DU, or a throwaway Logi build, then switch to hives/whatever after respawn? 5) If a tank has some shield damage, will my repper do anything to help the recharge rate? I thought reppers were for armor only, and did not effect shields. Thank you again for the very informative guide!
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 15:55:00 - [12] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits). Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out. Good call, and thanks for the apology. I've emailed CCP to try and move the post. Good points all. This guide is definitely in its beta form - as so much has changed and I only Know the AMARR and MINMATAR logi's and have no experience with the others. Therefore I am leaning heavily on the reports I read online by the sources I trust like you, Cross, and others. True, Lvl 5 is a large commitment for any skill. And some skills are not needed. As posted by another, Maxing you inherent shields or armor is not much of a bonus if they are so low. Thanks for the input. Working...
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 297	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:15:00 - [13] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: 1) Is it true that Caldari Logis can get the highest shields in the game? BTW, I think you have a typo on the Caldari Proto slot count - should be 5H/4L/3E. YES!!! Someone else is using my H/L/E slot count method! LET THE WORD BE SPREAD!!! Anyway, serious note... Quote: The Proto suits hover around 90-180 base HP on shields or armor, so at Level V the benefit will range from +23-45HP - not significant compared to the HP from modules instead. Upgrading these two skills to V, in my humble opinion, should be low priority - much wiser to invest in skilling up your Logi equipment or modules first, then if you have the SP, gain them gradually if you wish. Actually, a valid point... Always trying to maximize SP investment benefit and you're probably dead on here. Maybe a min 2, or 3 for whichever is your race's suit strength. You'll need a minimum to unlock the skills themselves anyway but they don't do much more than a passive bonus and if it's not your high stat it's not giving much of one. Modules are going to be your lifesaver for sure. Note on the Cal shield logi. Yes, it's beast... now. Mainly because it's racial skill affects Shield Ext MODULES, not shield base. Which is broken as all getout. It means that 66 shield extenders get shot up to 82.5 shields per module. Ridiculousness, and despite CCP's love of Caldari and Shields, it's a broken mechanic that will only lead to massive gamewide entropy. And by that I mean it will end up being the only suit anyone uses, even with anti-shield weaponry where it is currently. Also, I unlock Engineering and Electronics as I unlock modules and equipment. I do the math so I can keep ahead because it's really frustrating to be stuck with a tool or mod you can't use because you're just 14 CPU shy, or 2PG over. I literally had a suit last build that was 1CPU and 1PG over. It drove me nuts. Q&A: 1) Cal will have the highest shields in the game, but purely through modules and base stat. The "Extender Module Efficacy" will likely be getting a major tweaking if not complete revision due to the massive influx of the Caldari bumblebee. 2) Flux nades are glorious. If you're a shield tanker they can be your bane, but if you're armor or balanced you can just run in and kamikaze flux a team of the above Caldari bees and go to town with an AOE weapon like the Flaylock or MD. Even wild AR spray-and-pray can wipe out most Cal bees who haven't upped ANY kind of armor defenses in this situation. Fluxes hit all within it's little bubble (I love that animation, very clear on what the flux hits and what it doesn't). They WILL also kill enemy hives, uplinks, and mines (which will still detonate so be wary) and this ends up being a rather safe way to remove said elements, especially if you can't quite climb up to the building that uplink is sitting on top of. 3) A few Caldari rely on speed. I think many Caldari up their armor a bit. I think they all run at least one regulator though which is almost mandatory for front-line shield tanking in order to get those shields returning asap because otherwise they're stuck trying to hide in case someone DOES flux them and they're only rocking 90-110 armor. 4) Explosives are AWESOME, but I only think that because I've been using them for like 16 years now. (Goldeney 007, booyah). Anyway. They will not kill your own hives and uplinks as these get turned into "friendly" objects, but can be used to set traps for enemies by dropping a mine and immediately dropping a hive right on top of it. Most enemies will shoot hives up close which will in turn detonate the mine hidden within. They can also kill yourself obviously. This includes Proxy Mines going off next to you if an enemy vehicle runs over it. I've died more to my own proxy mines going off too soon or too close in Carmageddon 514 than I have to actual LAVs crushing me in recent times. 5) Personally, I have 3 of the exact same build except that they're as follows equipment-wise (injector, uplink, tool), (injector, hive, tool), (injector, hive, RDX). I run the uplink to get a good footing on a situation for my team. Occasionally my teammates can handle their own hives which is pretty beast as it means I only have to worry about keeping them alive and healed as well as maintaining our spawn position. If I have the time I'll swap to the hive suit for the long-haul but usually I just keep going in the uplink suit till I die personally and then check to see if more links are needed to keep the field populated with spawn points, or if they're good I'll go hives instead to give more support. That's just me, so not sure if it helps. The RDX is purely for defensive objective play where I'm usually sitting with one or two other guys and not moving the whole match. 5) Two 5's? Anyway... 5.2? 5b? Repair Tools only repair armor. This applies to Infantry, Vehicles, and Installations. The rest will have to regenerate naturally in the course of "not being in combat". That last one was easy. Thanks. I hope this helps. I'll be looking into those skill element points you made if I get the skill respec as requested. I intend to follow the general same path but with the skill changes proto class suits will be about the same cost as it is to get into Advanced spec suits currently (Yes, I've done this math already, it's not that hard with my charts). As for the others I'll be running numbers again once we get finalized SP multiplier listings but you're definitely on to something there. Maybe even just the 1point minimum to have points to max out reppers, extenders, regulators, and even other tools... Yes, I'll definitely be looking into this. But I'll still be getting the lvl 4 Engineering/Electronics as I'm already pushing things with just adv gear on an adv logi suit. Heck, I use an 'Exile' as a weapon because it's all I can fit. And the forums want to LOWER my CPU/PG!? Bahh. BAHH I say!!!
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 20:54:00 - [14] - Quote ^^ Amen brother. Thanks for fielding those questions. I've taken both of your recomendations and taken about 5 more hours to reorganize and rewrite the parts. Please comment again. Adjusted. -reading flow and format -sections divided and reorganized -skill value and recommendations for specific suits -spoke to basic fittings -adjusted recommended levels for skills -rewrote suit opinions -... writing this post after all that work = my mind has turned to jelly. Thanks for your input I'll keep working tomorrow.
shady merc RisingSuns 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:32:00 - [15] - Quote Very nice guide you have put together. Here is some food for thought for younger logi on a few pieces of equipment. Drop-links: I love these things. My first suit in every battle has them( drop-link,nano,repair). Not only are these easy points for you but it will let your dead team mates rejoin the fight a bit safer. Without a drop-link on the field you will either spawn on the front lines( usually without cover ) or randomly on the map somewhere. You will notice that a couple of drop-link are capable of more then 1 active at a time. This is both a blessing and a curse. Being able to drop 2 links will allow you to drop a very safe spawn point and a spawn point right on the front lines so even if your team loses the front line everyone can still spawn in as a group. The benefit of only being allowed to have one active drop-link is that when you drop the second link it will turn off the first one. You can use this to stop blueberries from spawning in on an overrun drop-link saving your team clones. Nano-hives: Of all my equipment this one and injector change based on what my squad is carrying. Looking at the begining choices the basic Nano hive or the advance K-2 are great for ammo. If my squad mates are carry a few nano hives as well you can switch over to the compact version. These do not last nearly as long but they do have armor repair which isn't accessible until Nano-circuity 4. The biggest advantage of using the compact is having extra cpu/pg for other module/equipment items. Example when I use compact I typically increase my repair tool meta level. Active scanner: These can allow you to control the flow of a battle outside of your squad. I find these most effective for stopping the enemy from flanking you. If you see someone moving far left or right just hit them with an active scanner and usually some one will turn there attention to them. They are also a good way of pointing out snipers to the group. I will problaly add to this as time goes.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 221	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:34:00 - [16] - Quote Thanks for the input Shady. I do need to add an equipment section.
J Falcs Bojo's School of the Trades 40	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:38:00 - [17] - Quote RedBleach, thanks for your guides. You were one of the first things I read when I first started playing Dust. Invaluable. Agreed that an equipment section would be great. And Shady has given a nice starting off point. The only other thing I can think of is a general tactics section. Little tips of the trade that tend to help in every game, but most people only learn after dying many times over. For example: Toss an uncooked grenade or two around a corner and it can buy you that second or two you need to rez a teammate. Of course...good luck getting the rez on the first button press even if you're straddling the corpse. Don't drop nanohives in a popular grenade point, place them a bit farther back or off to a corner with a little cover. Generally, you're added firepower is more beneficial than a repper. But, generally isn't always the rule. In a two on two, you're repper will do little for your teammate usually. Things change up some with a heavy though when their HMGs can hold groups at bay. This is more of a learned tactic of when to rep and when to fire. DU should be placed a little farther back than the frontline normally. They tend to last longer and are less likely of being overrun. The active scanner has unlimited vertical scanning. Always nice getting to a building and scanning for infantry on the roofs. If you have them,don't be afraid to use BPOs of other suit types. My DU build is a scout suit. I quickly drop a few links (one in between start spawn and close to first point, and another between first point and next point. If you run flux, toss one into a null cannon before capping. Gets rid of REs (although in this build, I am seeing much less of them than in Chromosome). Set up shop outside a hack point with nanohives and start chucking nades. It can buy the time you need to hold enemies at bay while your squad forms up on you. Likewise, the same is true when playing defense on a point. Let your squad mates know you are a running a repper. A lot of them will remove a lo armor repairer since you will handle rep duty. Use supply depots to replenish your equipment. Drop two hives, run to depot, switch to new suit, and you're ready to go when the two hives run out. Make lots of builds. A game changer is only a suit switch away.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 301	Posted - 2013.05.21 08:39:00 - [18] - Quote So taking into account other concepts brought to light I've written this up. So, check this build and skill plan and give me feedback. This is a min-maxing LogiBro, coming straight out of the gates with the new suit SP requirements. I'll do skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate. Again, I'm going based on my own success with a Min balanced-tank logi but this is a very general flow of the whole logi progression and can be tweaked but I think this is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment as early. I will make some notes along the way as well. Initial 500k: Dropsuit Command I X Medium Suit III X Logistics I Dropsuit Upgrades II Armor Upgrades I Shield Upgrades I Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Uplink Deployment I Nanocircuitry I Repair Tool Ops I Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (AR is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder. 1mil: Armor Plates vs Shield Extenders: I of one, III of the other. (I'm going show these a lot. Just use whichever best fits your race or gameplay style but stick with it and keep that your prime defensive line, superior to the other) Armor Repair Systems I Shield Regulator I Engineering I Electronics I Repair Tool Ops III Now you've got your tier1 logi suit with tier1 modules, equipment, still a militia grade weapon but that's coming next. _____________________________________ Break and make an ALT. Is it made yet? Okay, now log in and do the following: Use that ALT's starter 500k SP and buy straight into these skills and nothing else. You're just using this character to test weapon types and then they're going bye-bye: Weaponry II, Light Weapon Ops IV and the following weapon types: AR Ops I, SCAR Ops I, Laser Rifle Ops I, MD Ops I, Shotgun Ops I. Now we build the simulation. Get a Militia Gallente Medium Frame. Load it up with a couple militia armor plates to slow it down and no other modules. Then use your one weapon on it and a militia repair tool, no hives, no injectors. The purpose of this is to keep you in the mindset of a LogiBro from start to finish even during this little side excursion. Now you're a super-scrub logi. Go die like you're supposed to... a LOT. But more importantly, get a feel for the weapons. Their general alterations as you progress in levels aren't that different from the militia or starting tier so if you can't handle it now you won't be able to later either. Yes, you're wasting time but this is a good practice before specing into anything in DUST if you don't want to waste days, or weeks, or even months of SP on unnecessary skill branches. Got a weapon you like? A SINGLE weapon you will rarely if ever deviate from. And if you will it will only be for militia grade? No, seriously, you can't be wasting points. I'm gonna go for the most costly weapon to jump start with the MD in the LogiBro continuation but you may have saved some points off not upgrading weaponry beyond minimal requirements for the SCAR or AR. If for some psychotic reason you decided the shotgun was the logi weapon for you, you haven't spent enough time practicing. Go out and do it again. _____________________________________ Back to our main: 1.5mil: Weaponry II Light Weapon Ops III Mass Driver Ops I Nanocircuitry III Drop Uplinks II Armor Plating or Shield Ext II (whichever is still at I) 2mil: Armor Plating or Shield Ext III (Whichever is at I) Drop Uplinks III X Logistics Dropsuit II Engineering II Holy kittens, you're actually starting to look like a real logi now. Still tier 1 suit but you're carrying advanced tools and even some advanced modules. And that suit is about to change. 2.5mil: X Logistics Dropsuit III Electronics II And yes, that's it... Hey, just wait till you're waiting a month to get one level of one skill. 3mil: Armor Repair Systems III Shield Recharge III Shield Regulation III Now you're sitting on a solid ADV LogiBro at only 3mil invested thus far. But it can be made better. A LOT better. We have the technology. We have the science. WE HAVE MATHS!!! 3.5mil Engineering III Electronics III 4mil Armor Plating or Shield Ext IV Repair Tool IV 4.5mil Armor Plating or Shield Ext V (whichever is IV from above) 5mil Repair Tool V _____________________________________ This last one at this point is totally selfless and intended to show your commitment to the role at this point. Both to yourself, your squad and corpmates, and your fellow logis on the field. You are not a guy wearing a logi suit for some arbitrary means. You are not even a GÇ£logisticsGÇ¥ runner. You are a LogiBro.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 301	Posted - 2013.05.21 08:40:00 - [19] - Quote From this point on you'll need to continue along self-survival lines with upgrades in Shield Regulation and Recharge (because even the passive boost is a benefit if you're not willing to use the modules though they're awesome for frontline logi'ing) as well as getting that proto logi suit which is another 2mil all on its own and likely more Electronics and Engineering levels for their CPU/PG boosts. _____________________________________ You could also go fo the Logistics suit V earlier while at back at 3mil. That would leave all modules and equipment at Advanced tier III with the prototype suit available to you. I personally went for modules and equipment in line with and ahead of my suit because the proto-suits, even for specialization roles, are mad expensive and not something you want to be losing left and right while fully decked out, even if only in Adv gear. As stated before, we are needed on the field to do our job to the best of our ability, whether our teammates even notice or acknowledge our presence. Rushing to a proto suit without proper equipment and modules doesn't exemplify that ideology. _____________________________________ Of course, being thoroughly comfortable with your weapon here also, you might be considering an upgrade for that as well. Following this growth plan strictly sets you up to be one beast logi in my opinion, even if you're not totally sure what you're doing early on. Once you're set at 5mil, it's a good opportunity to go back and try new things. You might want to go back to or remake your ALT skill-tester to do so but there are some people having success with new scanners, RDX, and other equipment tools available. Be aware, if you're not hauling needle and rep gun first and foremost, you're not in your LogiBro suit. But that's cool too, because sometimes the team needs some tactical warfare logi'ing as well, and they're still going to expect you to be the one to resolve that on top of what you do already. _____________________________________ REMEMBER: This is only my opinion but also precisely how I plan to skill my own character with the next requested SP respec. I'll have another 3 million SP beyond this to get my my proto suit and Shield Reg V as I'm already running the shield version of this design and still maintain my RDX and Grenades (even possibly upgrade both of those to 3 while keeping proto Rep tool and adv hives, links, injectors, etc). But again, this is just me. I'm a madman. The fact that I sat down to write this all should alone tell you how severely disturbed an individual I am in the New Eden universe. Someone out there is looking for a failing, a weakness, and realizing I've covered for nearly everything for any racial logi suit. If I have failed for any of them, please let me know. With this being a very strong solid launching point from a Minmatar, it should be the same for anyone. And even those Amarr who complain they only have 2 slots so why bother with 3-4 equipment skills, just remember, a proper LogiBro isn't just the team healer. He's a swiss-army knife of awesome. That means having lots of flexibility and variant dropsuit loadouts to switch to when the need for them comes up. _____________________________________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
Sana Rayya DA BOSS SQUAD 1	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:00:00 - [20] - Quote Chankk - I was scratching my head while reading your skill plan until I saw the note at the end, and re-read it more closely from the beginning. Is this the change in the skill tree that we're being offered a respec for? I definitely hope so! I especially like the idea of burner characters to test weapons or other skills/buffs. In general I think brand new players are better off recreating after graduating from the Academy and getting pubstomped for the first few times, since more likely than not a lot of skill points were wasted out of ignorance or not realizing that the expected "bonus" was actually insignificant, as with armor/shield upgrades. That certainly applied in my case. I think ultimately the best way to skill plan is to work backward - design your dream Proto suit, then plan in reverse to see what modules/weapons/equipment/ you can accommodate along the way, and therefore what skills you need to fit them (taking into account having to skill into PG/CPU/Core Upgrades as necessary). Then, when your essential skills are covered and you're effective at your chosen role you can put the icing on the cake with additional nice, but not so beneficial skills. RedBleach, the rewrite is looking good, but I noticed you repeated the Demolitions paragraph twice. Maybe whatever made me repeat 5) infected you too? Thanks for the answers to my questions. I was initially considering the Cal Bee but I've decided to spec into Gallente instead, so if my build proves viable I'll send you my thoughts on it. I just think that the extra EQ slot and the racial CPU/PG equipment bonus is far better in terms of squad support since I can carry Lv5 AR/Reppers/Injectors/Hives/Drops while specing into Lv5 Armor and speed upgrades. I'll have no shield, but that will make me a tempting target once my shield is gone, maybe drawing the enemy out for me or the rest of my squad to finish off. Additionally, since you like explosives, the stacking bonus from Gallente's racial CPU/PG reduction and Explosive's 3% per level CPU reduction means that RE5's are about as CPU/PG demanding as Reppers or Injectors, and I'm thinking they will really come in handy in defending flanks or objectives, not to mention in traps for whoever chases the squishy with no shields Logi around the corner... BTW, was great squadding with you last night! Hope to link up with you in the future.

shady merc RisingSuns 2	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:35:00 - [21] - Quote added nano injector to my first post.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 231	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:32:00 - [22] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: BTW, was great squadding with you last night! Hope to link up with you again in the future. Sorry you caught me on an off day, thank you for the notes and input. The Gallente has alot of potential when looking at the math and slot setups, it will be interesting to see how it actually plays out. but without the armor plating you will have minimal HP, watch yourself. Chankk Sotome, Your guide to leveling up step by step rather than my vague "use these skills" is valuable to any new player, thank you much for creating it. I will reference it in the guide with your permission. Well done.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 305	Posted - 2013.05.22 11:27:00 - [23] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I think ultimately the best way to skill plan is to work backward - design your dream Proto suit, then plan in reverse to see what modules/weapons/equipment/ you can accommodate along the way, and therefore what skills you need to fit them (taking into account having to skill into PG/CPU/Core Upgrades as necessary). Then, when your essential skills are covered and you're effective at your chosen role you can put the icing on the cake with additional nice, but not so beneficial skills. I did this today... JUST under 12 mil to get PRECISELY the suit I want... and on Minmatar without the Galle CPU/PG modifier to equipment. Granted, a lot of those points go into Engineering, Electronics, and even Handheld Weapons Upgrades to get the CPU I need, and it's a tight fit. And when I say "tight fit" I mean it's basically a lycra banana-hammock of logi goodness. But it all works out. With just over 8mil I'll basically already be there minus some module tweaks and the final proto gun itself and related CPU/PG skills, and that may actually take a back seat to scanners and other E-warfare modules. Look, I've used the 'Exile' since the MAG tribute pack . Before that was just using the Militia AR BPO. I upgraded to the GEK-38 before the Uprising drop and it was cool and good for a bit, and even skilled into it again perhaps too quickly. I've gone back to the 'Exile' because I just don't have the CPU/PG for all my other gear. It's made me BETTER at my logi'ing, and I'm still a smart enough player to get my offensive aide and occasional kills in as well. Not GOOD enough, smart enough. That's something all logis need to be thinking, be you proper LogiBro or other. Even if your gun game IS the shizz, if you're gonna logi you gotta play the field smart, not just bull-rush your way in and expect to survive head-on engagements because of superior loadout modules. But of course if everyone played like that, the game would be a whole lot scarier and more intense with people being the goddamn Batman left and right and appearing from or disappearing to nowhere.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 244	Posted - 2013.05.22 20:24:00 - [24] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits... Chankk Saotome, First, I went through all of my posts and corrected the misspelling of your name "sotome" to "Saotome"... sorry about that. Second, while your input is valuable would you please edit you post that is in the middle of the guide to minimize it ... adding it at the end is no problem, but I cannot move it and would like it not to detract from the guide. Third, I am taking your suggestions for a step by step process from your post and adding it to the Logi Code guide in an edited fashion - I will of course credit you as the source - I hope that is ok, I just don't want people getting frustrated and lost at that point or missing your post in the thread - it is too valuable a resource not to post. EVERYONE ELSE Adding: Equipment Guide CS's leveling up portion to the Guide Spelling and other misprint mistakes Takes on the basic forms of the dropsuits, not just the proto so as to advise on the starting aspects of each race
shady merc RisingSuns 3	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:51:00 - [25] - Quote How about doing a section on squad equipment. I started working with my corp on setting up our equipment to diversify option on the field and over lap equipment based on play style. In a six man squad how many nano injector do you like to have?
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 251	Posted - 2013.05.23 06:41:00 - [26] - Quote Thank you CCP for moving the post that was in the middle, thank you very much. Shady, It really depends on your squad. I like two logis in a squad along with 1 or two heavies and the rest assaults. In a perfect world you would have 1 single group that could break of a minor section for an attack or flanking. there should be 3 Injectors. 2 from the logis and 1 if the logis are down. 2 proto reppers. 1 two streamer and 1 super max repper for the heavy. The rest of the squad should carry Nanohives. 1 Logi should have re's and the other an active scanner. Hopefully someone is spec'ed for AV with nades as well. and 1 logi should cary exclusively flux grenades. That was just some quick thinking that doesn't take into account snipers or scouts or vehicles but I will maybe work on it some more tomorrow. Good idea.
Kosakai CHON THE R0NIN 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:30:00 - [27] - Quote wow thanks it helps alot :)
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 308	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:31:00 - [28] - Quote Yeah, I had to move the text to my apology post section and then reduced the original to "." and flagged it for CCP. Amazed and glad that they took care of that so quickly. As for squad equipment... hard call... I LOVE the 2x logi squads, you're always set... but they're hard to get together and usually you're gonna be relied on to be THE go-to guy for logi'ing. If you've got a heavy in your squad that limits you to 3-4 on yourself and another 4 variable equipment slots across the squad as a whole. It is absolutely necessary that one to two of those other equipment slots be an injector, and a third likely to be a hive (or even a series of uplinks for early on in a match to set up a plethora of spawn points). That then requires you have your logi tool which will always be the true symbol of the LogiBro. Injectors are almost manditory as well (despite their being broken to pre-Codex levels of bad at the moment), which for most leaves us with 1-2 slots to fiddle with. With a mobile squad that's gonna mean an Advanced Hive or higher. For static defense a backup uplink is highly useful and if you've got a nearby supply depot (I mean NEAR nearby... I'm talking within 30m of your squad. If it's further than that then going to it is a waste of time for your squaddies and not an option in the middle of an engagement). If you're Gall or Min, you're all kinds of set to cover your squad. Have a scanner for preemptive data or RDX for objective holdings and infantry traps. A third assault or scout could also sport the same in a defensive squad. In an assault press you might need another injector or hive, or even a secondary repair tool. I have a couple assaults who have these dedicated and it's a nice backup if I'm not quite there to do my job to the fullest for everyone all at once. In the end it really depends on your squad, how they work together, what their goals and missions are, and who has what available. I attempted a writeup on this in my ancient and forgotten 'General Tactics Overview' but it was driving me insane because in the end I realized it just doesn't really work unless you literally have a dedicated squad which isn't always practical. With 6 people though and 7...ish available slots we'll say you'll definitely need the following: 2 injectors, 2 hives, 1-2 uplinks, 1-2 repair tools If you've got more available then a Scanner could be very useful as can RDX be, but again that all depends on your play-style along with your teams. EDIT: As RedBleach states, if you've got 2 proper logis, you don't want or need them running the same rep tool when backing up a squad with a heavy... unless your squad is just THAT squad with 2 logis and 2 heavies, in which case you kind of hope the others can handle themselves till you can patch them. And then if it's a field of assaults 2 dual-channel rep tools can usually be enough to keep everyone up to snuff even in the middle of a fight. If you're an Amarr logi you NEED another logi with you. That's all there is to that discussion. I think the Amarr are fascinating, and have a lot of potential to be some kind of assault logi hybrid, but they'll unfortunately never be a true LogiBro until Prototype. -/-/3 is rule 3 of the LogiBro Membership charter.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 252	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:11:00 - [29] - Quote Thanks Chankk, You've been a big help. I do like that you posted about having some drop uplinks - I had completely forgotten and was assuming the state of winning and defending an objective - not about having to move in and lose 1 or two guys on the way and needing them to respawn. A very good point that I often forget. Would you post 1 or 2 of you fits and explain why you have them fitted like that. I saw that some of you basic skills in your suggestions for the first 5 million SP had Shield regulators and Shield Rechargers. Using the Minmatar I often have sacrified those modules for something else, would you please share with me why you find them so useful? Like a before and after scenario with current fittings and older fittings.
Daivex D'Vyn Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 17:15:00 - [30] - Quote First off, this is a great guide. Thank you for writing it and to the others who contributed to it. I have read its several times and I understand all of the information presented. That being said, I am still having a hard time deciding on which Logi suit to pick. I think part of my problem is that all of my in game experience has been in the instant battles with mostly new players. I have created, specced out, and then deleted about 6 different characters to test weapons and builds, but I haven't gone as far a testing the Logi suits cause I don't want to waste that much time. So my instant battle play style has been fairly aggressive, while still trying to fulfill the "resser" role as best as I can in an unorganized PUG. So, my questions are: 1). What's the best Logi suit for a casual dust player? 2). Can a casual dust player gain entry into an organized Corp and be properly utilized? 3). How much of a difference is there between shield tanking and armor tanking in survivability? (Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar) I think the answer to number one is probably Caldari because it seems unorganized groups aren't really going to benefit as much from say, a minmatar Logi, and I will just wind up dying alot and not really being able to take advantage of all of the support utility. Ideally, I would like to be a full support logi, but if being a casual player is going to relegate me to a life of pick up games, I don't want to be totally gimped. My biggest fear is I pick Gallente or Minmatar and just wind up running around trying to help people that don't understand how I can help them and just spam "redeploy" or run away from me while I'm trying to repair them. Again, thanks for the guide, and I appreciate advice you guys may have for me.

shady merc RisingSuns 3	Posted - 2013.05.23 18:22:00 - [31] - Quote Daivex I am going to try to answer some of these question. 1) if you are looking for the true logi experiences you need at least 3 equipment slots. If you are running 2 slot think of yourself as more of an assault character. 2) Yes if you are a casual player and have low skill points you can help. Just remeber most of the time you are not going to go toe to toe in a fight but instead support the team and soften the enemy. Even the basic equipment makes a difference in a battle so don't worry. 3) I run an minmatar logi suit and run a mix of both so I may not have the best answer to this. As far as unorganized players go yes they will run away from your repair tool and typically don't wait for your nano injector. They best thing I can say about this is keep trying. The toughest thing about using the nano injector in a pub match is picking up the first guy. Once people start seeing you actively trying they will start to wait. If this isn't working for you in a match switch to droplinks. You may not be able to revive them but being able to decide where they spawn is almost as good. But most importantly to a logi join a squad and have a mic. even random pick ups. once your in squad let them now you can revive and keep feeding information. drop nano hives. Being a logi can sometimes be a thankless job because we kinda win the match from behind the scene. If you ever need a group hit me up in game we can run some matches and you can meet the corp;.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 252	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:15:00 - [32] - Quote Daivex D'Vyn wrote: First off, this is a great guide... So, my questions are: 1). What's the best Logi suit for a casual dust player? 2). Can a casual dust player gain entry into an organized Corp and be properly utilized? 3). How much of a difference is there between shield tanking and armor tanking in survivability? (Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar) Ideally, I would like to be a full support logi, but if being a casual player is going to relegate me to a life of pick up games, I don't want to be totally gimped. My biggest fear is I pick Gallente or Minmatar and just wind up running around trying to help people that don't understand how I can help them and just spam "redeploy" or run away from me while I'm trying to repair them. Again, thanks for the guide, and I appreciate advice you guys may have for me. Good Response Shady, I think I'll chime in too. 1. Caldari or Minmatar sounds like they would be the best fit for you. Caldari for the Shield tanking but still being able to carry some equipment. Minmatar for a little more speed but lower HP. However it seems that you are not talking about being a Logibro so much as being a character with more equipment slots. Being Logistics character and not a Logibro is ok - but the guide wont really help you that way. I think you are shooting more for a Logissault. A character that carries a repair tool or a nano-hive/injector with RE's or Proxy mines or active scanner or drop uplinks. You have many options but it sounds like you are going more for an attack logi than a Logibro. Caldari matches that most, especially at low levels. Or the Amarr at low levels is an interesting play - very unique but hard to suggest at this time and build to be a workable character. 2. Look at the forum posts, look for the corps that speak up that you seem to agree with and apply to them; but of course the most successful way to get into a corp is to play with a mic and be fortunate to link up with one in a random battle like Shady said. OR go tot he recruiting section of the forums and look for some of the big corps and apply. If you are rejected, so what try again with another corp. The only reason no to be in a corp is because one may not meet the requirements for one they applied to (like a KDR ration or a SP (5 million for example) or for the simple reason that they have not applied. To be part of a corp is the players choice. 3. Shield vs Armor tanking. Simple answer: Currently shields win. This debate has been going on since the first days of the Beta and is not an easy question to answer. Search out some better articles on this subject and judge for yourself the pro's and con's of these methods. The easiest view is shields will recharge to maximum quickly and are more resilient to common weaponry (barring the SCAR or LZR). Armor gets some resistances to shield weapons and recharges slowly but consistently over time. Armor tanking requires a logi to help rep you. Most lone wolves shield tank because they don't have to rely on a team for reps. Armor gives more HP at the sacrifice of movement speed. Shields have no penalty. You keep your speed, you ability to dodge, and ability to run away. Amor requires you to play smarter as your movement is limited. But because of the ungodly amount of HP by armor an armor tank can be really hard to kill (gallente). Hope that helps.
Daivex D'Vyn Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:16:00 - [33] - Quote Shady and Redbleach, thank you for your responses, it is greatly appreciated. Just to clarify, in a perfect gaming world I would prefer to be a Logibro. I generally always choose support classes in every MP shooter/MMOs I play. I guess what I was trying to convey in my first post was: a) I would hands-down choose to go Logibro if I was sure I would be able to fully realize their potential within the confines of the parts of Dust that I have access to as a casual player and, b) If a Logibro is generally going to be a fruitless/frustrating existence in the absence of a cohesive organized group (assuming I never gain access to one), then I would most likely opt to go Logiassault However, from what Shady was saying, it sounds like eventually even a casual gamer could get involved in more organized Corporation/squad activities. I do always play with a MIC, but generally have been unlucky in finding others with MICS or who are like-minded and interested in coordinating strategies. I made 2 friends one evening and had some success, but haven't seen them on since. @Shady, I will probably take you up on your offer tonight and message you in game when I am able to get on (after the wife and kids have gone to sleep). Even with all this confusion, I am still really loving dust and having a lot of fun. I'm just reaching out in an attempt to ensure I continue have fun and hopefully save myself from making a mistake that will cost me time I generally don't have. I played EVE casually for years and it's no surprise that the Dust community is a supportive and intelligent one. Thank you guys for helping me navigate through my early days in Dust. And if you have any further insight or advice, it's always appreciated. p.s. @Chankk: I was cracking up when you were talking about how you drive yourself nuts with your compulsion for figuring out all of the various build/skill combinations and ensuring you had just the right amount of PG and CPU and not 1% more. I can empathize because I generally spend about 5x's researching builds and specs for MMO's and RPG's than I do actually playing the game!
Nihilus Warwick BetaMax. CRONOS. 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 21:25:00 - [34] - Quote I'm a Logibro, and I've gotta say, this should have been stickied forever ago. This is one of the best rundowns of a role I've ever read. Thank you.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 253	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:45:00 - [35] - Quote Thanks :)
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 1014	Posted - 2013.05.23 23:22:00 - [36] - Quote As a dedicated support Logi since Closed Beta I want to reiterate my support for this thread (and in so doing give it a bump during the incoming wave of respecs). Mercs if you're thinking of running a support Logi read this thread, RedBleach has done a top notch job. Cheers, Cross
NoxiousMentos Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.23 23:26:00 - [37] - Quote This guide is very well done.Thank you for this great service to logi's of all kinds. That being said,I am SO torn between Caldari and Minmatar. ><
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 254	Posted - 2013.05.24 00:14:00 - [38] - Quote NoxiousMentos wrote: This guide is very well done.Thank you for this great service to logi's of all kinds. That being said,I am SO torn between Caldari and Minmatar. >< Me too. Thanks for the Support Cross Atu! If the Amarr had the balance needed I would be jumping for them. One more low slot and some more PG and I would be sold. But otherwise the battlecentric Caldari or the Hack machine Minmatar are the ones I like too. And they level a more evenly than the other classes. I wanted to try another class with Uprising - and did try AMARR - but it looks like I might stick with the Minmatar... but i really want my Amarr.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 399	Posted - 2013.05.24 02:25:00 - [39] - Quote A little curious as to why you say no to flaylock pistol but yes to mass driver, and your reasoning is flaylock has low ammo. Well the mass driver has even less ammo than the flaylock! Anyways, I've ran with only a flaylock before and it can definitely work, the damage is comparable or even better than mass drivers. Still mass driver has more range, more blast radius (though smaller blast damage), and a larger clip and is better for our support role. Still, if you are planning your build in advance and need to free up some CPU/PG don't be afraid to give the flaylock a try.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 313	Posted - 2013.05.24 11:34:00 - [40] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: As a dedicated support Logi since Closed Beta I want to reiterate my support for this thread (and in so doing give it a bump during the incoming wave of respecs). Mercs if you're thinking of running a support Logi read this thread, RedBleach has done a top notch job. Cheers, Cross It won't let me + this any more than 1. CROSS! Get your butt in here and add something substantial. RedBleach started this but props to him on setting it up and allowing it to develop into a full and proper Logi community project. And, according to several people I've heard from, there are maybe 4-5 logis in the entire game community of thousands who basically write the rules and everyone but the "gun game" crew listen to them. The two of you definitely top that list. RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: 3. Shield vs Armor tanking. Simple answer: Currently shields win. This debate has been going on since the first days of the Beta and is not an easy question to answer. Search out some better articles on this subject and judge for yourself the pro's and con's of these methods. The easiest view is shields will recharge to maximum quickly and are more resilient to common weaponry (barring the SCAR or LZR). Armor gets some resistances to shield weapons and recharges slowly but consistently over time. Armor tanking requires a logi to help rep you. Most lone wolves shield tank because they don't have to rely on a team for reps. I think you already answered your question of why I support Shield Rechargers to a degree, and heavily Shield Regulators. That ability to get your shields back asap is a huge boon to your field mobility. Caldari may be all hotshots with their beast shields but if they're waiting 10 seconds out of battle in some corner for it to return they might as well be dead and respawning in my opinion. I can't give numbers right now but I can tell you that my team and I notice a clear and notable difference between my suits with regulators and suits without. In simplest terms, without shield regs I'm out of combat for too long and likely unable to provide backup fire support or even rush across a fire-line to get to a downed teammate. That makes squaddies very unhappy and makes me look bad in my opinion. Also: Daivex D'Vyn wrote: 3). How much of a difference is there between shield tanking and armor tanking in survivability? (Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar) A lot of good answers, and while Armor tanking is somewhat feasible right now it still needs more bonuses. Thankfully, Logis get the best direct bonus in that regard. We can self-repair insane amounts of armor thanks to +1, (that's +1hp, not +1%) to armor repair. Throw on a 5% armor rep and you're repairing enough armor to actually outlive a shot or even two in direct engagement with anything other than a Tac, MD, or Forge Gun. Once self-repairing armor plates are introduced armor tanking may be the wave of the logi future, but for now nearly all of us need to rely on our shields and having them up to snuff ASAP, which means Regulators... Again, in my humble opinion.

RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 260	Posted - 2013.05.24 15:31:00 - [41] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: A little curious as to why you say no to flaylock pistol but yes to mass driver, and your reasoning is flaylock has low ammo. Well the mass driver has even less ammo than the flaylock! Anyways, I've ran with only a flaylock before and it can definitely work, the damage is comparable or even better than mass drivers. Still mass driver has more range, more blast radius (though smaller blast damage), and a larger clip and is better for our support role. Still, if you are planning your build in advance and need to free up some CPU/PG don't be afraid to give the flaylock a try. Good call. My hesitation comes from it being assigned as a side arm. Part of that concern is with the distance limitation of the Flaylock. Why does that matter? It is a cause of concern because a Logibro starts the battle with his teammate. If there are enemies we lay down fire until we are called upon to fulfill our role. But I see it as if your teammates can engage then so should we. Another Logibro pointed out that often in a 2 on 2 scenario if the logibro stops to rep his teammate, making it a 2 on 1 situation we are not contributing as much as we should be to the situation. It is about playing smarter and choosing a weapon that has that limited distance makes the job more difficult. A second note would be the limitation in rounds per clip. When a Logi does fire: freaking make it count. Level the area to rush to the rescue or hold off an attack. I do know that some of the MD's have only 4 rounds and flaylocks have 3 but more MD's have 6... is there one with 8? Anyway, when you do lay down fire - pwn. If you can pull that off with a Flaylock then go for it. Remember this is more of a guide and not the end all to every player. If a player has skill enough to use something else then they should. There is variety in the game and I am certainly not pushing for every Logi to only have an AR. For some to specialize in other weapons and learn different ways to play the game only help when they come back here and share. For example the Scrambler pistol can one shot most suits with a head shot, yet most people don't use it. That being said People have made it work. I'm not the guy who has. So yeah, try Flaylocks on your alt, if they work out for you great, if not, use something else. Thanks for bringing it up Inferno.
Delirium Inferno Edoras Corporation 414	Posted - 2013.05.24 17:50:00 - [42] - Quote Flaylocks may have less range, but they still have good range unless going up against say a TAR. And the extra damage means the 3 shots are enough if you may them count, and if you don't its a very fast reload. I'd still recommend a mass driver if you have the space for it, but if you don't a flaylock can do a very similar job.
Royce Kronos Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 2	Posted - 2013.05.24 18:08:00 - [43] - Quote I recently had the good fortune of having a lengthy conversation with Free Healing. He reveled to me the origins of the LogiBro, something that a lot of new players might not know. I thought it might be an interesting side piece of your guide. -- Just having the use of logistical suits and equipment Does Not make you a LogiBro. The term LogiBro originated from the Dark Age for logistics (closed beta/pre Chromosome builds). Back then, you did not receive WP for repairing or reviving. However, a few dedicated logistics endured, through the trials and tribulations, selflessly repairing and reviving their fellow mercs. From these selfless few, the LogiBro was born. Anytime there is a fellow merc is on the ground, the true LogiBro will be there. Anytime your armor is down, the true LogiBro will be there. When you think you are alone, under fire, low on ammo, the true Logibro will be there. These selfless few, dedicate their lives to these ideals so GÇ£That Others May LiveGÇ¥. -- (Please edit this as you deem fit.) With that being said, this guide is AMAZING! Thank you for your dedicated work on this. I will be referring a lot of budding logistics players here. The 2x logi per squad is very useful. Usually filling all equipment needs for the squad. The "1 two streamer and 1 super max repper" is something I look forward to trying. Thank you again for this guide.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 260	Posted - 2013.05.24 18:23:00 - [44] - Quote Your welcome and thanks for commenting and bringing us back to the days of when what we did meant the world to the team but did nothing for our scores. I actually wish I had Room in the guide for another post, as is I'm pushing the limits of each post to the character count =p. But I'm glad it is included in the thread. As an addition there was/is a player (part of betamax), haven't seen him around recently, but had the original name: Logi Bro. How he was as a logi i don't know but the term came from his character name when we were struggling to find a name other than 'medic' to define the role because it was so much more. He commented for a while when we started using his name, unabridged, about how we were using his name... and eventually the world forgot and I haven't seen him in any of these posts since. But thank him for the great contribution to our role: Our Title. Inferno, Updated the guide to suggest the Flaylock and speak a little more positively on its behalf. If you give me a +/- little layout like i have for the other weapons I'll include it.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 261	Posted - 2013.05.24 22:47:00 - [45] - Quote For those wondering about the repair tool comment and the in depth explanation by Cross Atu and the response from the devs please see this Risk v Reward progression for support action >Issue with the Amarr Logi and one way to play the character< Initial HP But to the Amarr Logi. I have been playing him a little more to verify what has been written in this post. He really is a unique character. Buffed HP stats seem to take the place of a H slot right out of the gate, when most Logis are 90/180 or 180/90 or the minmatar with 90/150 the AMARR is at 120/180. So, the armor is on par with the others, no bonuses there. On shields he has only 30 more or 50 less - that is and ADV Shield mod, nothing more. Granted you start with this but he might make a bigger impact on the Logi/Assault if he had the same HP as his basic frame counter part at 180/180. So that in comparison to any race he has an automatic Complex shield or armor mod. Yet, with the same amount of armor he is still slower than than the armor Logis. So, he gained what would be a High slot but only at a medium level. One fix is to keep the stat and add a High or Buff the Shield stat to a Complex Mod level - especially if he is going to be the Tanky Logi right out of the gate that suffers from fewer slots. Speed Next is his speed. He is the slowest, for no real reason as his armor is not greater than anyone elses, but that might just be the nature of the Amarr as the assaults are slowed as well, but cant compare the heavies yet. It seems that that is meant to mean they are a bit beefier... but they also have the best stamina. So while they cannot sprint as fast they can sprint greater distances and more often. Interesting choice, it certainly makes him unique. If it had been on the Minmatar that may make some more sense but it compensates a bit for his slow speed. But looking to the setup of the soldier we see that when we apply the armor modules it slows his sprinting speed. Meaning that to keep up with the group he will always be sprinting and then be a little gimped in weaving out of fire - slow targets are easier to hit. So his stamina regen is the balance for his speed but it can be brought to a point where wearing more armor will defeat the purpose of sprinting. Shield Regen and Shield Delay Second best shield regen 17, as opposed to 20 or 15. He has a standard shield regen time of 6 seconds BUT if his shields are depleted the time is reduced to 5 seconds. This guy is unique. What appears to be an armor tanker is better with shield tanking for his recharge rate and recharge time. Implied play experience vs Real play With his racial bonus one would normally believe that he is meant to be an armor tanker. But in play that fails as the Armor penalty to movement is too great and outweigh the benefits. What it seems to be is that he is meant to be in a constant state of repair and lose his shield in each encounter to get into armor only to have it repaired quickly. Equipping a shield extender and shield recharger with a shield regulator and armor repair mod would seem to be the way to get the most out of this guy in the beginning, but it also means playing smarter. The limitations of slots at the proto level means that one would need these to be complex mods of the highest order or a setup like: Highs 2 shield extenders and 1 recharger w/ lows 1 recharger 1 armor and 1 repper or 1 armor and 2 reppers. So just focusing on Repair tanking and jump in and out of battle. Problem is he cant move fast enough to just jump in and out of battle. He may be able to outrun them in distance but not with speed so he must stand his position and have other players help take some of the heat at times. Playing him in battle means walking an edge of always losing shields and but not losing all the armor. He lives for the Regen, and every skill should be focused to boost his initial hp and then his mods should focus on Regen. He is pretty unique and pretty fun but he cant fit into the role as is. Corrections to Balance: His role requires more CPU/PG - that is established and moot as an arguable point It also requires 1 more High or Low slot IN Favor of a HIGH - take advantage of his shields and shield recharge ability. IN Favor of a LOW - More intune with established Lore and to fit this regen roll to either make him the best repair guy (currently beat by the Gallente with his many lows) or take the AMARR role and armor tank. Lastly the sidearm issue. There have different suggestions of when to give him his 3E slots, the 1 proposed increase to a high or low slot, and when to give the character a sidearm. I would say immediately. This is the draw of the class. This is his purpose - with only 2E slots he is not really a logi and is more assault right from the start. The progression balance of the Caldari and Minmatar is pretty good. The Gallente is weighted to get everything at the Proto level and as is the AMARR. From a gaming standpoint that is not that fun. Giving an increase for every level is the reason for progression and gets rid of the Proto or Militia attitude. ADV should be used and should be a benefit for each class. AMARR suffers from that attitude. And when we see that most other races get slot buffs in every class for their increase in skill level this should be the same with the AMARR LOGI and relegate his sidearm bonus as the starting bonus to set the class up as an Assault/Logi from the beginning. But, looking at the assaults that automatically makes him better than the assaults if one only looks at the slot count and not the other stats - but that speaks to balancing the Assaults more than the balance of the Logi's and that is another discussion.
shady merc RisingSuns 4	Posted - 2013.05.27 07:46:00 - [46] - Quote every logi need to listen to clankk on the shield regulator bit. Once I got my advance logi suit I put enough points into shield regulators to get advance version which decrease shield delay by 20%. I replaced my armor repair since my logi skill was doing a passive 3 hp, and I got to say wow. You will always end up with more available hit points at the beginning of an encounter this way. In the logi suit my shield delay is 6 second, and 6 second when depleted. using the advance shield regulator (not counting the passive bonus) That cuts the time to about 5 seconds. So that mean in 6 seconds I gain 20hp back for my shields. This has made a difference to the suit for sure even if its not the most noticeable change you can make. If you try this please give the module a couple days on the suit because its a little tougher to notice then say more hp or dmg but worth every penny. (running this on an advance minmatar logi suit )
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 318	Posted - 2013.05.27 09:26:00 - [47] - Quote Looking at Rechargers it's definitely a personal thing, but I still feel regulators are a clear benefit if you're a push-squad logi. Also, dropping the Recharge skill from my build you can easily skill into Explosives and grenades and RedBleach is probably spot on with that. As we only have one weapon, a flux is a logi's best friend. Far better than a locus because if it hits it's easy to finish off most opponents or have them scatter so you can get your allies back up and regroup yourself. If it doesn't, it has a higher psychological impact than a simple locus grenade. I've seen it in opponents. I've heard it from allies. I've felt it myself. Unless you KNOW your shields don't mean squat, seeing an entire bar of your health vanish is a harrying experience. Other skill considerations: Dropsuit Biotics: That +1% actually scales quite a bit despite what you may think and is very useful for keeping yourself moving about the battlefield. That's really all there is to note. Demolitions: RDX, little more be said. Proxies won't take out most LAVs anymore unless they run over a 3 mine stack so while still useful you'll have to cluster them closer together which makes them both easier to avoid and easier to spot. System's Hacking: Meh... Min have a better bonus built in so no one's going to out-hack them generally logi-wise. It's a useful skill for certain, particularly in objective-based battle, but it's also very skill intensive just to unlock much less skill up beyond adv tier so while it might be best to guard the logi hacking an objective, it might be easier to allow someone else to spend points on this in a dedicated squad. Active Scanner Operation: A cute novelty toy but better left to the scouts and assaults who can actually take advantage of the data on the front line for their own uses. It will gain viability as people start to make more ninja builds like Maken Tosch has been running, or Shar Kharn's new Minmatar scout suit, but as a tool it's just too much more stuff to carry as a logi and realistically, less aide than an extra hive or uplink. Speaking of: Profile Dampening, Precision Enhancement, Range Amplification: Wow, if only they all actually worked properly. Dampening does what it's intended but as for the others it's currently in debate with the jury out. If they did these could be lifesavers for the logi who finds himself suddenly alone but somehow unseen by the enemy. Keeping track of their moment and knowing when it's good to move out and get to your team or throw an uplink to get them to you. I was so excited about these skills getting reworked but news seems to be that they're still in the grinder at the moment. I was really hoping for the revival of my MAG stealth engineer. Logistics LAV: This is, in total, a minimum 700k SP supplement tree you're looking at here, likely verging on 1~2mil to get a proper decent setup. You'll want Vehicle Command 1, X LAV 3, X LLAV1. That's 317k SP just to get the car. Now, some may think, "MAN! That's 317k JUST to get the car." but for others of us, we think, GÇ£DAMN! That's ONLY 317k SP just to get the carGÇ¥. Of course, just the car alone is a hazard beyond all belief so you'll want to boost its strengths and virtually ignore its weaknesses with whichever you choose. Hard to do, I know, but upping your shields on a Galle LLAV is a waste of CPU/PG that could be better put to use further ramping up your passive or active armor damage resistance. Vice-versa for the Cal LLAV. Good team support vehicle as it can cover tanks or infantry with its repper and shuttle personnel rather quickly though it doesn't have the same acceleration as the Scout LAV and thus has more trouble with terrain inclines if starting from a standstill. Still, who cares about terrain when you can drive through a Warbarge Precision Strike like it was a warm summer breeze? Logistics Dropship: No... just no... You're not a vehicle pilot, so just... just no.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 91	Posted - 2013.05.27 14:15:00 - [48] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Active Scanner Operation: A cute novelty toy but better left to the scouts and assaults who can actually take advantage of the data on the front line for their own uses. It will gain viability as people start to make more ninja builds like Maken Tosch has been running, or Sha Kharn's new Minmatar scout suit, but as a tool it's just too much more stuff to carry as a logi and realistically, less aide than an extra hive or uplink. I wouldn't forgo the active scanner so easily. Whether it has a place in your layout depends on how you fill your role, but it has it's purpose. When you're playing in a match with random people the scanner is a good tool to raise awareness for certain tactical developments, since scanned enemies stay on the radar for a few seconds instead of disappearing immediately. That way you can point out advancing enemies or point out to that lonely blueberry that he's currently assaulting 10 red dots single-handedly. With 150 meters range even a basic level scanner is also an effective tool at pointing out snipers. If you get shot, get in cover and keep scanning the guy through your cover until someone headshots him. Problem solved. I admit that in a more coordinated squad the extra equipment-slot on a logistics-player may be too valuable to waste it on a scanner, but when hoarding blueberries this seems to be a good tool. For public matches I switch the nanite injector for the scanner since blueberries can't be revived anyways.
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.05.28 01:31:00 - [49] - Quote So I decided to try the "simulation" (militia gallente medium suit with 2 armor plates (was it 2 or 3?), an assault rifle (the GEK 38 I think? Regardless I want that as my mainstay weapon for my main guy.), a militia repair tool and some militia locus grenades. I quickly discovered that the Academy was not a good place to practice so I chose to keep on truckin until I got out of it. Now out in the real New Eden, I guess I am liking it so far. Sucks being made out of paper mache though.
RedBleach LeSanglant PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 290	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:05:00 - [50] - Quote shady merc wrote: every logi need to listen to clankk on the shield regulator bit. Once I got my advance logi suit I put enough points into shield regulators to get advance version which decrease shield delay by 20%. I replaced my armor repair since my logi skill was doing a passive 3 hp, and I got to say wow. You will always end up with more available hit points at the beginning of an encounter this way. In the logi suit my shield delay is 6 second, and 6 second when depleted. using the advance shield regulator (not counting the passive bonus) That cuts the time to about 5 seconds. So that mean in 6 seconds I gain 20hp back for my shields. This has made a difference to the suit for sure even if its not the most noticeable change you can make. If you try this please give the module a couple days on the suit because its a little tougher to notice then say more hp or dmg but worth every penny. (running this on an advance minmatar logi suit ) Yeah, it has been an interesting move. I find I have to play to my strengths (armor) to survive, but on the advanced and proto suits I see their value.

Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.05.30 04:05:00 - [51] - Quote Hey there again. Decided to at least follow the initial 500k plan in the guide on a alt character. I am dying... a lot. But I am loving it even more. I still find that I need to get more familiar with all the maps so that I have an idea on ideal spots to deploy uplinks and nanohives. Glad to have this great guide to help a noob out, appreciate it.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 323	Posted - 2013.05.30 08:44:00 - [52] - Quote Baosh Shiryl wrote: Hey there again. Decided to at least follow the initial 500k plan in the guide on a alt character. I am dying... a lot. But I am loving it even more. I still find that I need to get more familiar with all the maps so that I have an idea on ideal spots to deploy uplinks and nanohives. Glad to have this great guide to help a noob out, appreciate it. Nanohives basically, as stated, need to be placed in a relatively safe point somewhere slightly behind your team still near their frontline. Uplinks are a trickier matter and as you play the maps you'll find the best places for them. This keeps changing, however, as the best places are usually universally recognized meaning that enemy links are easily found by players who know themselves where to put links down. You'll learn the best places but also alternate drop points nearby as you figure out the maps and various installations.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 324	Posted - 2013.05.31 18:58:00 - [53] - Quote CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! I WITHDRAW ALL PREVIOUS NEGATIVE STATEMENTS ABOUT ACTIVE SCANNERS! Seriously, those things are BEAST. If you've got 4 slots or teammates handling hives and uplinks on a 3-slot suit, you NEED one of these things. That's all there is to it. Period. SENTANCE! I ran about 4 hours of matches with a friend and his pickup squad and about half way in I was sold. I skilled in to just the basic scanner and with nanite injectors a mess decided to drop it into my injector slot. Almost garaunteed victory! No joke. I mean... Sure, I run with some of the scarriest and most insane people in DUST here, and nobody's ever gonna look at the player list and think, "OH Shi... Chankk's on the other team!", but this thing is a massive boon to both yourself and your team's tactical knowledge and thus overall squad and team capacity. I'm tired, and it's mad late, and I'm crashing after some important PC battles, but knowing where your enemy is, where they're coming from, where they're going. Just awesome. Not to mention the possibilities with area knowledge of where to drop OB's for the most devastating effect. One guy at the objective or half his team around the supply depot? Also, the scanner continues "working" after triggering it's effect so you don't need to stand there holding it like an idiot as it was in previous builds. Just throw out a scan, switch back to your rep tool or weapon, and let you and your team go to town on reddots who wonder how you and your team magically know precisely where they are. Not to mention the ability to pick up flanking enemies and squads and set up traps to counter their traps. I'm always settin' traps! Team fighting ahead of me, scan the roadway to the left, oh, 2 guys are coming... prepare a present of RDX for them and pop it as they walk right over it. AHHHH! Manditory tool for Demolitions logis. Look, I could rant for hours, but I'm suddenly in love with this thing and my pub suits are definitely rocking this. Proto once I get it will almost invariably have one of these loaded as well now. Now if only we could get "Kill Assists" benefits for scanning and pointing out enemies who die within a brief time of being sighted by the tool.
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.06.01 00:07:00 - [54] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! I WITHDRAW ALL PREVIOUS NEGATIVE STATEMENTS ABOUT ACTIVE SCANNERS! Seriously, those things are BEAST. If you've got 4 slots or teammates handling hives and uplinks on a 3-slot suit, you NEED one of these things. That's all there is to it. Period. SENTANCE! I ran about 4 hours of matches with a friend and his pickup squad and about half way in I was sold. I skilled in to just the basic scanner and with nanite injectors a mess decided to drop it into my injector slot. Almost garaunteed victory! No joke. I mean... Sure, I run with some of the scarriest and most insane people in DUST here, and nobody's ever gonna look at the player list and think, "OH Shi... Chankk's on the other team!", but this thing is a massive boon to both yourself and your team's tactical knowledge and thus overall squad and team capacity. I'm tired, and it's mad late, and I'm crashing after some important PC battles, but knowing where your enemy is, where they're coming from, where they're going. Just awesome. Not to mention the possibilities with area knowledge of where to drop OB's for the most devastating effect. One guy at the objective or half his team around the supply depot? Also, the scanner continues "working" after triggering it's effect so you don't need to stand there holding it like an idiot as it was in previous builds. Just throw out a scan, switch back to your rep tool or weapon, and let you and your team go to town on reddots who wonder how you and your team magically know precisely where they are. Not to mention the ability to pick up flanking enemies and squads and set up traps to counter their traps. I'm always settin' traps! Team fighting ahead of me, scan the roadway to the left, oh, 2 guys are coming... prepare a present of RDX for them and pop it as they walk right over it. AHHHH! Manditory tool for Demolitions logis. Look, I could rant for hours, but I'm suddenly in love with this thing and my pub suits are definitely rocking this. Proto once I get it will almost invariably have one of these loaded as well now. Now if only we could get "Kill Assists" benefits for scanning and pointing out enemies who die within a brief time of being sighted by the tool. Raises hand Umm, how exactly do they work? Cause I just tried one and I am very confused.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 325	Posted - 2013.06.01 00:48:00 - [55] - Quote Basically you "fire" it in a direction and it scans enemies within the arc range of your scanner. You can turn while it's active and if you fully-light up an enemy they will remain on team radar for however many seconds the scanner states. Don't turn to fast but once you pick up an enemy or a group stay looking at them to make sure they're fully "scanned" and thus will stay on team radar.
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.06.01 01:23:00 - [56] - Quote Ah, got it. Would you recommend trying out the flux version?
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 325	Posted - 2013.06.01 02:54:00 - [57] - Quote Baosh Shiryl wrote: Ah, got it. Would you recommend trying out the flux version? Just get lvl 1 and try the standard Active Scanner. See how it feels. It may not work for everyone or may not fit with your play style but for how I work I'm suddenly in love with the thing.
RedBleach LeSanglant PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 293	Posted - 2013.06.03 16:26:00 - [58] - Quote Active Scanners covered in the equipment section, and how they are used. Chankk, they are awesome. Baosh - I would say no to the flux active scanner. It limits your radius and the scanner length goes beyond your radar. I see it only of use as you try to point out enemies that are further away than normal caution would allow you to find cover. Like a sniper or a small pack skirting the outside of the map.
RedBleach LeSanglant PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 295	Posted - 2013.06.04 21:00:00 - [59] - Quote With the respec I went Amarr logi. The worst logi of them all just for the challenge. If it ever gets balanced I will be a happy man. If not, well I'm eventually going to go Caldari or Minmatar later for some variation. My plan is to go AV with swarm launcher and smg or flaylock. The flaylock is a difficult weapon for me to use. This is due to the slight delay in firing and missile speed. A direct hit is devastating - well not at the militia levels- but it is fun to use. The SMG keeps me close to my team mates or jumping from cover to cover as a player should be doing anyway. The AR gave me the distance so I would shoot people when I was not in an optimal area for a firefight - i would hope I would kill them first, and that wasn't really working out. The SMG and Flayock ensure that I only fire when my range is optimal and made me play smarter. But with only two E slots my loginess is limited. I hope this suit gets fixed, but it is fun to play at the moment.
RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 296	Posted - 2013.06.05 10:02:00 - [60] - Quote AND WHAT A MISTAKE! Amarr is broken. Minmatar, Caldari, and Gallente are truly the only options. And AR is still the best all around weapon at this point. So next time i have a spare 5 million SP I'll just get my Mini back or go Caldari.

Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 86	Posted - 2013.06.05 14:43:00 - [61] - Quote Sorry bleach. The thing that sucks too is most people probably use advanced level suits. With two equip slots and a low ammount of high and lows its a waste :/
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 333	Posted - 2013.06.05 15:27:00 - [62] - Quote Centurion mkII wrote: Sorry bleach. The thing that sucks too is most people probably use advanced level suits. With two equip slots and a low ammount of high and lows its a waste :/ This here is truth. As a LogiBro, we all dream of those 4 equipment slots... at least I think we do... any PROPER LogiBro probably does, which means Gall or Min. To get any real benefits from the Amarr it has to be proto. It HAS to be proto... I personally don't have proto suits yet because of the skill dump into Min Basic Med level5, but hoping to get that rectified, but in reality I just die too often and will still be playing my ADV suit for all but PC battles. This is especially painful for logis running all our equipment and modules. I can have an ADV suit that costs the same as my assault friends running proto in pub matches. It doesn't make viable economic sense to be spamming proto suits because I'll be red constantly and that surplus of ISK I have will rapidly dwindle. I love the Active Scanner, and right now it fills my Injector slot, but once that's fixed I have to decide... do I run Injector, Rep, and Scanner... or Inector, Rep, and Hive... or Injector, Rep, and Uplinks.... because those first two are simply manditory for doing my job. In a perfect world I can run a full uplink suit to start, and then swap... to viable combat with assaults handling their own hives... but we don't live in a perfect world, far from it. Being a LogiBro people will depend on us, but we also need to trust and depend on our squaddies to not be non-stop run-and-gun slayers constantly demanding 12 kinds of support from us, which goes to adjusting THEIR way of thinking as well which is a much bigger and more difficult task than any one of us is up to I'm afraid.
RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 297	Posted - 2013.06.05 18:30:00 - [63] - Quote Right on Chankk. 3 Equipment slots is the only way for LogiBro to go. The end. That is a commandment. The variability of the class is dependent on that aspect. I will adjust the Guide to reflect as much.
Saki Seto DUST University Ivy League 8	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:45:00 - [64] - Quote Do you logibros feel that we are useful early on. Injector is bugged almost beyond use. Repper while useful feels clunky in use and most often guys get either a minor shield scratch or they just get vaporized. Nanohive is usefull only for people that have staying power. Most people die to often for these to matter. Uplinks I have never used so I cant comment but they seem useful. Im getting a bit discouraged, I feel kinda useless and on top of everything I specced into mass driver that feels useless and Im seeing that 20+ pages of tears so Im not the only one that thanks so. I get ok wp. Its not that. Was just wonering if one more shooter wasnt more important for the team than a low level logibro.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 89	Posted - 2013.06.06 02:38:00 - [65] - Quote Saki Seto wrote: Do you logibros feel that we are useful early on. Injector is bugged almost beyond use. Repper while useful feels clunky in use and most often guys get either a minor shield scratch or they just get vaporized. Nanohive is usefull only for people that have staying power. Most people die to often for these to matter. Uplinks I have never used so I cant comment but they seem useful. And jumping between equipment with the radial menu can be very difficult. Im getting a bit discouraged, I feel kinda useless and on top of everything I specced into mass driver that feels useless and Im seeing that 20+ pages of tears so Im not the only one that thanks so. I get ok wp. Its not that. Was just wonering if one more shooter wasnt more important for the team than a low level logibro. There was a thread like 2 weeks ago that talked about why the nanite injector doesn't work and tips to make it better. A dev said (not in that thread ) something like (not even 35 % sure this was his explination but i understand how it works see the in one of the next bullets) that the rag doll mechanics weren't working properly. Something like where your body lands is caluclated server side and where you see it is calculated on everyone else screen. OFTEN causing a difference. So here are my tips to you so you can make it better. Focus on stabbing where they died and if that doesn't work work your way towards their body is. If their hit by a car watch where they where hit and where the body went and work with that. Two try to inject in their ankles. Three do not move until that person is standing. Repair tool is useful. It helps armor tanks get into the fight quicker and stops some shield tankers from slowly dying. You can also use it to rep someone you know is about to enter combat. The 25 hp a second is only like a bullet but it doesn't stop me from doing if i have nothing else going on. Nanohives are VERY much useful in almost every game i throw down a hive its like a homing beacon and people come from nearby to use it. Uplinks are useful when your with a team or alone too. You have a civic duty though to not throw it in a stupid spot and get everyone killed. Jumping between equipment is clunky. However it is use-able but you will mess up and select the wrong thing often. edit: mass drivers are seriously bugged. CCP Cannot fix them until they do a client update. A client update requires sony testing. So it will be awhile until there usable again. I suggest you spec into another weapon in the mean time. Your not useless your very important. When i see a group of guys going together and there is a logi I immediatly assume we are stronger. 1. He reps people keeping us alive longer. 2. He injects people keeping us alive longer. 3. He provides ammo keeping us together ( no one running back for ammo ) and keeping us alive longer. Basically he is like glue. He pushes back all the forces keeping us apart. Be it death , a slight injury which might otherwise cause us to die and he gives us ammo meaning all in all we don't have reasons to split up.
Thunder McCloud Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.06.06 06:55:00 - [66] - Quote Saki Seto wrote: Do you logibros feel that we are useful early on. Injector is bugged almost beyond use. Repper while useful feels clunky in use and most often guys get either a minor shield scratch or they just get vaporized. Nanohive is usefull only for people that have staying power. Most people die to often for these to matter. Uplinks I have never used so I cant comment but they seem useful. And jumping between equipment with the radial menu can be very difficult. Im getting a bit discouraged, I feel kinda useless and on top of everything I specced into mass driver that feels useless and Im seeing that 20+ pages of tears so Im not the only one that thanks so. I get ok wp. Its not that. Was just wonering if one more shooter wasnt more important for the team than a low level logibro. It helps a lot to have a squad that sticks together and is a good mix of heavy, av, and assault. With a good squad, there's always something to do - rez, then heal, then restock. Running after 2 or 3 randoms and trying to keep them alive is beyond frustrating in comparison. I tried out all the weapons and MD just stuck with me. Combined with flux grenades, there's always extra damage to add to an engagement. Plus, if someone jumps around a corner and catches one in the face, they probably die. I'm never going to outshoot a TAC/GEK user, so the AR is out. I need close range power so lasers are out (though they are fun). I don't want to hurt myself, so no SCAR. My second choice would be SMG, but the MD gives up a little short range power to dish out at range, while also keeping myself safe behind cover. The glitches are annoying, but I find they mostly happen shooting into freestanding cap points. MD is just fun to play for me. I get some kills, a lot of assists, and there's room for me to improve and for the weapon to get fixed. I stay alive a lot longer which means I can afford better gear. TLDR: Get a good squad, and choose weapon style over weapon damage.
Saki Seto DUST University Ivy League 8	Posted - 2013.06.08 02:09:00 - [67] - Quote thanks guys for the replies, I just posted that after a bad day at dust. feel better about my class now :)
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2013.06.08 18:21:00 - [68] - Quote So I finally hit the 1mil SP mark on my alt. Frankly, at this poitlnt I think I'll delete this character since by the time CCP feels like giving out the respec my alt with have surpassed my main. My only regret is not making him Minmitar as well. (My alt is Caldari but uses Minmitar suits.) Anywho, on to Logistics-related things. So I finally got my repair tools up to lvl 3 and decided to upgrade said tool. But the game decided to be cruel with me and after much dropsuit fitting tinkering, my uplink suit (I have three logi suit with reppers and injectors as mainstays with an nanohive, uplink, and scanner in the other slot) is still not viable because my CPU exceeds the limit... by one. (210/209) So I resorted to the only workaround I had, switching my AR to an SMG. Now granted, I like how SMGs feel, maybe even more than ARs. But I feel that my build requires some range. This is mainly because I went Minmitar logi, so I feel frail. So a weapon with some versatility and range works fine for me. I dunno where I am going with all this, maybe some advice and tips would be nice. Also, I apologized for any spelling and grammar errors. I am posting this from my phone.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 364	Posted - 2013.06.10 11:17:00 - [69] - Quote As for weaponry, as I've stated and against my CEO's and ally's wishes, I stick with the 'Exile' in order to maintain full equipment and heavy defensive survivability capacity. This is just how I play but when I'm logi'ing I find that the best I can do is lay down a few rounds of support fire, maybe get an assist or hijack a handful of kills left and right, but it makes me stay closer to my teammates so I'm more readily available to rep them (if only CCP would make it swap to my tools faster like it used to be). This is just me, but you're going to need Electronics and Engineering as you keep leveling up. At proto level I've calculated my build will simply require a CPU module, there's just no getting around it if I also intend on loading up adv or proto weaponry as well. If you're on an ADV suit, depending on how you're tanking, that CPU module may be more useful than people give it credit for, even at lower SP levels. It lets you use certain better gear and definitely better equipment, while still keeping the range of a proper light weapon.
RKKR The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 50	Posted - 2013.06.10 15:39:00 - [70] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: As for weaponry, as I've stated and against my CEO's and ally's wishes, I stick with the 'Exile' in order to maintain full equipment and heavy defensive survivability capacity. This is just how I play but when I'm logi'ing I find that the best I can do is lay down a few rounds of support fire, maybe get an assist or hijack a handful of kills left and right, but it makes me stay closer to my teammates so I'm more readily available to rep them (if only CCP would make it swap to my tools faster like it used to be). This is just me, but you're going to need Electronics and Engineering as you keep leveling up. At proto level I've calculated my build will simply require a CPU module, there's just no getting around it if I also intend on loading up adv or proto weaponry as well. If you're on an ADV suit, depending on how you're tanking, that CPU module may be more useful than people give it credit for, even at lower SP levels. It lets you use certain better gear and definitely better equipment, while still keeping the range of a proper light weapon. EDIT: Again, this is just me, and I'm a lunatic... It took me a while to get a really solid ADV suit with lead build into a good solid PROTO suit as a Min logi. I just prefer them for having the most versatility of any suit on the field, period (despite also having the lowest base E-HP). Don't mistake me, they're far from the best suit for everything or anything, but I'm big on multi-tasking and I kind of enjoy keeping track of half a dozen of my own things on top of my squaddies and teammates. Not the same mental gameplay as most slayers... but then being a LogiBro is a completely different mindset all together. Sounds like me except I run a Gallante logi and I'm profiting from the race CPU/PG bonus so I could ignore Electonics and Engineering a bit and spend the SP somewhere else. I think the standard AR does just fine on my logi.

RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:43:00 - [71] - Quote I would still recommend the AR over any other weapon. My second recommendation would be the SCAR. Depending on your playstyle - lead with grenade or finish with grenade should lead you to Flux or Locus nades. Last note, I've been playing with some repair nanohives and they are a great alternative if you are feeling limited by the Repair tool or need something just to repair yourself.
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2013.06.14 17:23:00 - [72] - Quote Apparently I forgot I had the standard AR and was using the militia one, heh oops. But now I can fit most of my desired modules just fine. I dunno if I should also go logi with this character after the respec and either branch out or terminate my logi alt. Also, is it just me or am I the only that feels "locked" into this role? That is to say, I feel like this is the only role I can at least be decent with. I created yet another character and decided to go shotgun scout with it and well... I LOVE the speed it grants me, but I'm so frail a strong breeze could kill me. Plus the shoddy hit detection doesn't help either. Back to logistics. Anybody care to share some quirky tactics you people have learned in your logibro ternure?
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 385	Posted - 2013.06.14 19:00:00 - [73] - Quote I don't mean to disrupt from the whole theme of the post because this is actually an entire theme on its own but I will say that from my experience, most scouts in general NEED to be KBM. Shotguns are a bit of a mess at the moment, as are Mass Drivers, but the Shotgun Scout in particular, and Nova Knife, are a TWITCH gun-game playstyle which fits primarily with KBM and it's sensitivy and control. A lot of snipers I know, (And I know the best snipers in the game... No, seriously... Nod Keras, Gem Cutter, Hawkeye... and not just because we've been in corp together), also promote KBM for their sensitivity no matter what suit they're running. General Assaults, Logis, and Heavies are designed and best taken advantage of with the Dualshock. This means anyone running Forge, HMG, AR, SCAR, MD, Swarms will benefit generally from the Dualshock control. More precise and pin-point weaponry such as tacticals, snipers, lasers, scrambler pistols do better with KBM. The problem with weapons like Shotguns and SMGs is that their actual hit-detection does not coincide with their visual spread. It's hard to explain but talk with enough shotgunners and they'll tell you all about it. Anecdote: As a shaman from EQ, the obligitory second char was a monk.... Kind of the same deal from Logi to Shotgun-scout. It's a completely different playstyle and in order to be successful at it you need to remove yourself completely from the logi mindset which in and of itself is a difficult task. I don't feel I'm LOCKED into the role, per-say, especially considering I have a proto MEDIUM assault (or if I EVER get a respec, at least an ADV medium assault) but skilling into an alternate class all together on the same character WILL be a massive SP drain and require you completely shift your mentality when playing that style as well as explaining to teammates why you're not repping them or giving them ammo. Personally, I LOVE logi'ing, so the only "non-logi" element I've skilled into is LAV's, and even that, with the Gallente LLAV, I've found ways to make it work, and quite well, as a proper LOGIBRO tool. The Caldari LLAV is great for murdertaxi or having a dedicated gunner on turret, but the Gallente LLAV is simply THE way to go for LogiBros. Scanner, CRU, and enough armor reps and harderners to keep yourself alive in a situation. Scan an area, tell squaddies it's safe to get in your car. Scan again and say it's safe to jump out. Otherwise warn them of likely dangers in an area as you forward recon with it before racing back and recalling your vehicle. It's not a full-battle tool. It is a moment-to-moment, situational item and should be treated as such but also respected and taken care of. I may be rambling a bit but Im about to finish my second bottle of wine tonight and I'm having a GREAT time today with people I haven't seen in a long while or even squad with... EVER since PC; So I think I'm entitled.
Planetside2 FreeonPS4 Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.06.18 00:39:00 - [74] - Quote Planetside 2 free on PS4 this year
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2013.06.19 04:57:00 - [75] - Quote Bumping for great justice. Respecs might be coming in soon, so this is my chance to make my main a dedicated logi, but... now I'm not so sure... Don't get me wrong, I love the role we play in the battlefield, but maybe I want something different. Granted, I know a logistics suit is very versitale, although every time I make logi suit for non-support purposes it feels plain wrong. So I guess I don't know what I want to specialize in.
Greg Dopson Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.06.19 07:25:00 - [76] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year Insane Infantry Push Amazing Night Battle Night to Day Canyon Battle Intense Field Battle Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Factions Explained
Valkary Rising Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.06.19 23:02:00 - [77] - Quote Great info, I am using every piece I can.
Harry Hendersons Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.06.21 01:05:00 - [78] - Quote Chankk, is there anything you cant explain? You should be a writer. You have great detail in your guides. Thanks.
Caesar Williams DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 02:30:00 - [79] - Quote Any tips for the Amarr logi? Thinking about tackling that gold beast once the respecs come in. Want to play with my favorite race logi ( Scum bag Min profile pic)but I have no idea on how to build them. Should I rush proto once complex modules are unlock? Coming from the gall/min suits it seems that rushing proto seems like a good idea, since you have that extra equipment slot and sidearm. Also a million likes for this amazing thread. The knowledge written helped a noob like me become a decent logi bro and gain a overall better understanding on how the class works. many thanks to all the amazing logi minds in here.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 109	Posted - 2013.06.21 18:16:00 - [80] - Quote Caesar Williams wrote: Any tips for the Amarr logi? Thinking about tackling that gold beast once the respecs come in. Want to play with my favorite race logi ( Scum bag Min profile pic)but I have no idea on how to build them. Should I rush proto once enhanced modules are unlock? Also a million likes for this amazing thread. The knowledge written helped a noob like me become a decent logi bro and gain a overall better understanding on how the class works. many thanks to all the amazing logi minds in here. A small tip. Max your fitting skills lol ive been playing around with the fitting tool and it seems like a suit that benefits from a lot of sp.

shady merc RisingSuns 7	Posted - 2013.06.21 19:25:00 - [81] - Quote Hello again. I am going to outline a bit about how I play my logi for everyone. You may want to think of this as more of a support bro(supbro) then a pure logibro I have speced my logi into a very versatile support character however playing my character depends on a couple of things. 1. do not play regular ambush and expect this to work. This play style needs access to supply depots to be effective. ambush oms, domination, skirmish are your friends. 2. as normal in dust your going to need a good squad with communication to be the most effective. 2. you will need to get to nanocircuity 4. this gives you access to k12/d nanohive these replenish ammo as well as heal armor. I am sure most of the logi out there took up the role of logi for the versatility and to help friends. I have expanded myself from just being the medic in my squad to full on support. I have done this by spreading my skill points out into many different things so we have an effective answer to most situations. Basically I have a suit for just about about any issues my squad need to be concerned with. To start: The dropsuit. For my dropsuit I went with minmatar logi. I prefer this for the well balanced approach to slots as well as the equipment slot count. This also gives me access to the minmatar advanced basic medium frame(3 high slot is going to help here). Here are the main items I have speced into that help my team Swarm launcher lvl 3 mass driver lvl 4 nanohives lvl 4 nano injectors lvl 4(same skill as above) droplinks lvl 3 repair tool lvl 3 active scanner lvl 1 remote explosives lvl 2 (soon to be 3) grenades lvl 2 sniper rifle lvl 1( not used often but this is gives you 2 more shot per clip compared to milita) hacking 15% (passive from suit at the moment need to upgrade the skill) things I have speced into to help me. assualt rifles lvl 4 (this is a good default weapon to have laying around, really only need 3 in it but I wanted the GLU) dropsuit biotics lvl 3( got run to those supply depots) cardiac regulators lvl 1(makes it easier to fit then milita,increase run time) I am not going to talk about core/tank skills as these are more of a personal/suit choice. here are the basic suit setup I have built. (I also have multiple version of my logi suit carrying different equipment items) sniper: advanced basic medium frame basic sniper rifle basic submachine gun 2 enhanced light damage modifiers 1 basic sidearm damage modifier 1 militia kinetic catalyst k12/d nanohive A V: advanced basic medium frame advance swarm launcher basic submachine gun 2 enhanced light damage mods enhanced shield extender enhanced shield regulator cardiac regulator k12/d nanohive default logi layout: advanced min. logi suit ec-2 mass driver 2 enhanced shield extenders basic light damage modifier cardiac regulator shield regulator basic armor plate k12/d nanohive repair tool advance injector pickup squad/ambush logi: advanced min. logi suit GLU-5 assualt rifle 2 enhanced shield extenders basic light damage modifier cardiac regulator shield regulator basic armor plate k12/d nanohive flux repair tool remote explosives you notice I didn't label grenades in any of these fits. That because most of the suit are copied with the grenade being the only difference. Now all of these suit carry a nanohive that can heal armor this is important for a couple of reason. First your squad will become accustomed to and expect you to have heals. By having this on all of my suit I can provide some amount of healing even when I am not in the logi suit. So I start most matches in my default logi suit. find my squad mates and provide healing and support fire from my mass driver and usually flux grenades. the ec-2 is low damage large radius. This 1-2 combo lets me weaken the enemy shield before the encounter making it easier for my squad and then support with splash damage. the splash damage also allows me to finish off enemies as they duck behind cover. Now if we need AV , counter-snipe, remote explosive, or anything else. I drop both nanohives in the area this give my squad ammo and healing. Swapping suits allow me to go AV , counter snipe, or setup a strong base of operations, proximity mines, drop uplinks, then if something does happen while I am still in a nonlogi suit I can still provide some healing from my additional nanohives on my suit. If you are going to go this route I suggest setting up suits for different maps as well. Example the bridge map I usually start with one of 2 fits. either a logi with droplinks, proximity mines, flux grenades and a swarm launcher. This can be a little scary as I can't defend myself but I can quickly secure the bridge and take care of opposing lavs and turrets. Or I simply start with my Av suit. ON smaller maps I will swap from the ec-2 mass driver to the exo-5 as I typically don't need the extra radius buff to hit multiple enemies and the extra damage helps. let me know what you think
Planetside2 OnPS4 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.06.21 19:29:00 - [82] - Quote Harry Hendersons wrote: Chankk, is there anything you cant explain? You should be a writer. You have great detail in your guides. Thanks. Great point.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 144	Posted - 2013.06.21 19:33:00 - [83] - Quote Caesar Williams wrote: Thinking about tackling that gold beast once the respecs come in. Are more respecs rolling out, or did you apply for one when 5/14 came out, and haven't gotten it yet?
Caesar Williams DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 21:24:00 - [84] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Caesar Williams wrote: Thinking about tackling that gold beast once the respecs come in. Are more respecs rolling out, or did you apply for one when 5/14 came out, and haven't gotten it yet? Both. Applied for one on my alt 3 weeks ago but the information on the forums suggest that the respec will be for everyone.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 398	Posted - 2013.06.22 00:54:00 - [85] - Quote I just had a conversation and it made me come to this realization for a simple phrase that possibly defines the LogiBro. I could save this for a bump but I just think we worked the wording out to make this too good not to be shared: If your 0-X; if you're dying left and right; if you've done nothing offensive... BUT; If your squad/team's KDR overwhelmingly compensates for your personal losses; if your squad/team has full health and defensive capacity, if your squad/team is fully stocked and ready for anything that comes at them, and if all this by your sacrifice; You are doing your job and have nothing to be ashamed of. Be proud.
LEOn Mendez Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.06.22 23:34:00 - [86] - Quote I learned alot here. Thanks for sharing the wealth of knowledge.
Poplo Furuya Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2013.06.22 23:46:00 - [87] - Quote I'm where I want to be with Forge Guns now. Time to take the steep approach to Logidom. First up is actually getting the suit. Minmatar for me, the speed and utility is an enticement. Gonna be ages 'til ADV suit though. If I did rush to it would be missing the equipment. Hell, don't even have Extenders skilled up yet, that one's gonna have to wait a couple months. At least Electronics, Engineering, Biotics and Shield+Armour are all in a good place. Thanks for this thread. Learning that Active Scanners are currently working properly is brilliant, battlefield intelligence is about the deadliest weapon you can have. Seems like an instantly useful piece of kit even in the STD range. Ah, can't really complain about being behind. I made my choice with FGs and I love the things. I only wish the Amarr wasn't so bad as my other love affair is with the Scrambler Pistol. Losing slots and equipment is too much just to accomodate that, especially as the sidearm benefit only manifests at PRO.
Slimjimbiscuits PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2013.06.24 12:03:00 - [88] - Quote Being a LogiBro is the only way in which I feel useful.
CaveCav Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2013.06.24 16:53:00 - [89] - Quote Quick question, being Caldari Logi and so shield tanking should I try to max out the core shield skill (the one that does +5% to max shield) or should I just go for extenders? And being my armor very low should I work on the core armor skill since I don't wanna go more than ADV for my platings? I have a quite solid ADV build for weapons and equipment and I want to improve my survivability on the battlefield
Poplo Furuya Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 63	Posted - 2013.06.24 18:41:00 - [90] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Quick question, being Caldari Logi and so shield tanking should I try to max out the core shield skill (the one that does +5% to max shield) or should I just go for extenders? And being my armor very low should I work on the core armor skill since I don't wanna go more than ADV for my platings? I have a quite solid ADV build for weapons and equipment and I want to improve my survivability on the battlefield Extenders to V is a high priority. Jumps from 33 to 65 extra shields per extender, gets a lot of mileage from the CalLogi racial. Plates currently aren't really worth it. Slows down your movement and turn speed, compromising evasion, mobility and aim. If you're worried about surviving a fluxing the low-slot Regulator module coupled with a Recharger in high would probably help more. Both at the Enh level, preferably. Will make your shield begin regeneration sooner and at an accelerated rate. With their insane base recovery being on par with a scout suit you'll almost be recharging under fire. I don't remember exact figures but if Enh Regulator and Recharger both give 25% bonuses you'll be recovering 25 shields/sec after a 3s delay. 4.5s if shields were depleted. It begins the recharge countdown from the first moment you get hit and doesn't reset on subsequent hits. It's a big difference, also a lesser tax on PG than another Com-Extender would be. At least getting Shield Upgrade to 3 is recommended, before it starts getting too expensive. Increasing your ability to stay on your feet is always good.

Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2013.06.27 05:21:00 - [91] - Quote So I got my respec and I've decided... to go the logibro way. However, I don't know whether to start investing SP now or wait until Uprising 1.2 comes out. In the meanwhile, I've noticed that my once-a-logi alt also got a respec, so I decided to have some fun and turned him into a shotty scout, as to have something to tide me over until then. But I still ask you logibros: Start using my SP or wait until Uprising 1.2?
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:02:00 - [92] - Quote And a bump because I <3 this topic.
Dalorian Riften Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.07.03 22:18:00 - [93] - Quote Bump
chopper911ed The Malevolent Monkey Militia 1	Posted - 2013.07.08 04:00:00 - [94] - Quote This is bye far the best topic in this forum.. Got my respec an followed the guide all the way to the 5mil point with a mim logistic. Got the advace suit with proto repair an advance everything else. Just wondering now if I should go proto suit logi or skill up to level 5 in sheilds an armour. With this 3X cap week I Have plenty to spend
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 339	Posted - 2013.07.08 04:50:00 - [95] - Quote So, I ran into some logis that were using Shotguns... they were good. They were Minmatar and Caldari. They must have had speed mods, I could hardly hit them. It was a deadly combination, but I don't know how they did as actual logi bros. But watch out for them - deceptively strong.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 112	Posted - 2013.07.08 05:24:00 - [96] - Quote chopper911ed wrote: This is bye far the best topic in this forum.. Got my respec an followed the guide all the way to the 5mil point with a mim logistic. Got the advace suit with proto repair an advance everything else. Just wondering now if I should go proto suit logi or skill up to level 5 in sheilds an armour. With this 3X cap week I Have plenty to spend Get proto mods before proto suit. Also dont use complex plates. I recommend 3 basic plates.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 339	Posted - 2013.07.08 05:29:00 - [97] - Quote Centurion mkII wrote: chopper911ed wrote: This is bye far the best topic in this forum.. Got my respec an followed the guide all the way to the 5mil point with a mim logistic. Got the advace suit with proto repair an advance everything else. Just wondering now if I should go proto suit logi or skill up to level 5 in sheilds an armour. With this 3X cap week I Have plenty to spend Get proto mods before proto suit. Also dont use complex plates. I recommend 3 basic plates. Maybe with a gallente, but 3 plates is hard on your movement. I do agree with getting proto mods before the suit - even though the lower suits can hardly bare more than one or two.
chopper911ed The Malevolent Monkey Militia 1	Posted - 2013.07.08 06:32:00 - [98] - Quote Thanks for the input guys
Soulskulptor Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.07.11 16:21:00 - [99] - Quote Good to see the guide is still being updated and supported. Recently got back online and found myself with over 5 million Sp and no idea how to spend it. This guide helped me get with skills, though I admit i overlooked leveling Nanocircutry to III.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines 60	Posted - 2013.07.12 00:57:00 - [100] - Quote I use drop uplinks, nanohives and rep tool, proto amarr logi :-)

Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 17	Posted - 2013.07.12 06:51:00 - [101] - Quote I am still slowly but hopefully surely learning the fine art that is being a logibro. I am currently running an advanced minmatar suit with 3 enchanced shield extenders, 1 militia armor repair, and two ferroscale plates: 1 basic and 1 advanced. Along with that I have the basic AR, basic flux grenades and a total of three different equipment builds, all advanced level save for the scanner. (Should be noted that in all three I run a repper and a nanite injector. Difference being the uplink/nanohive/scanner.) Overall, I am happy with my fittings, all that's left is to better my playstyle. Almost at the 4 million SP mark. (Although I took some liberties regarding the 5 mil plan.) Onwards!
Caesar Williams DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2013.07.12 08:27:00 - [102] - Quote Baosh Shiryl wrote: I am still slowly but hopefully surely learning the fine art that is being a logibro. I am currently running an advanced minmatar suit with 3 enchanced shield extenders, 1 militia armor repair, and two ferroscale plates: 1 basic and 1 advanced. Along with that I have the basic AR, basic flux grenades and a total of three different equipment builds, all advanced level save for the scanner. (Should be noted that in all three I run a repper and a nanite injector . Difference being the uplink/nanohive/scanner.) Overall, I am happy with my fittings, all that's left is to better my playstyle. Almost at the 4 million SP mark. (Although I took some liberties regarding the 5 mil plan.) Onwards! they grow up so fast. Keep at it!
pierce Hawkeye 843 Boot Camp 14	Posted - 2013.07.12 17:46:00 - [103] - Quote Anyone who wishs to become a logi should read this its like a logi bro bible. even though i was logi before i read this it still has great tips pointer and advice. I myself am a dedicated logistics i take great pride in keeping my team alive i also feel the same way as Slimjimbiscuits i feel extremely useful when im logi. (not to mention i also get tons of war points)
Fire of Prometheus Solaris Space Marines 6	Posted - 2013.07.13 00:17:00 - [104] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: I use drop uplinks, nanohives and rep tool, proto amarr logi :-) Same here and loving every minute of it......plus I think the proto drop suit looks pretty freaking awesome!!!! :P
Soulskulptor Gunfall Mobilization Covert Intervention 8	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:39:00 - [105] - Quote So apparently there's 3 different types of armor plating now. Regular Armor plates: These seem to give the most in Armor HP and the largest Movement Penalty. Ferroscale Plates: These give the second best in Armor HP and with no Movement Penalty but use more CPU than the others and a slight bit more PG than normal Armor Plates. Reactive Plates: Gives the least in Armor HP with a slight Movement Penalty and a small Armor Repair but use more PG than the other types. My question is this: which is better for Logis?
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN. 26	Posted - 2013.07.15 12:43:00 - [106] - Quote IMO the ferroscale/reactive plates don't give enough HP to justify the CPU/PG costs. My brother runs a Proto Gallente Logi with 3x Enhanced Armor Plates. I'm Proto Caldari so I don't use any.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 456	Posted - 2013.07.17 08:26:00 - [107] - Quote The new plates are only for shield or speed tankers to give a bit more edge to their overall e-HP. Worthless to armor or hybrid tankers. However you tank your logi, there you go.
RKKR The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 249	Posted - 2013.07.17 08:48:00 - [108] - Quote The new plates are currently only usefull to take advantage of the stacking penalty for the speed reduction, but this might also take up place for other modules you want to use.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 456	Posted - 2013.07.17 11:34:00 - [109] - Quote RKKR wrote: The new plates are currently only usefull to take advantage of the stacking penalty for the speed reduction, but this might also take up place for other modules you want to use. Forgot about this. Though it heavily detriments overall armor HP, this is the ONE benefit it gives to armor tankers such as Gallente assaults/logis. Thanks for that correction there RKKR
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 20	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:25:00 - [110] - Quote New logistics tweaks for 1.3 Thoughts on this?

Muud Kipz Elevated Technologies 22	Posted - 2013.07.18 18:45:00 - [111] - Quote Baosh Shiryl wrote: New logistics tweaks for 1.3 Thoughts on this? They listened! To me and everyone else who complained about how terrible the ALogi suit was. Overall, the tweaks are all better than nothing, but a 25% shield regulator effectiveness bonus, combined with how broken current shield recharge mechanics are, are going to leave the CalLogi as still the OP fit for the immediate future at least. Triple complex extenders already give you ~73% recharge delay time reduction including stacking penalties, 731.25 = ~91% recharge delay reduction. Even with the (tiny) recharge delay nerf, a 3-regulator proto CalLogi will start regenerating, regardless of whether it's been shot in the mean time, every 0.5(not depleted) to 0.8(depleted) seconds.* Combine this with a shield energizer (+60% regen rate, -6% base shielding) and you've got basically 30+ hp/s passive shield regen on a buffer of ~460 shields. Am I missing something, mechanics wise? Would it not be as ridiculous as I'm describing?
CaveCav Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:22:00 - [112] - Quote Ehi Muud! I did some math and I came up with some different results: with 3 Complex Regulators the reduction (accounting bonus from both the skills of Calogi and Regulators and stacking penalities) would be 82.35% that is awesome. The delay would be 0.8825 s with a non depleted shield and 1.412 s with a depleted shield. Coupling this with a Complex Energizer would give a +33.2 HP/s of shield recharge, losing only 6% of your base shilds, meaning a Calogi with core shield skill to 5 would go down to 212 HP from 225 HP of base shield. Have I derped something with my math? And also my suit is still OP, those that look like my Logibros brothers but use the dropsuit as assault will go from >700 eHP to "never-without-shields-monsters". Stay strong my fellow Logibros!
Baosh Shiryl DUST University Ivy League 21	Posted - 2013.07.23 21:48:00 - [113] - Quote Curious: What do you Caldari logibros think about the CPU reduction that will be implemented? Especially the 40 CPU hit at proto level?
Celeste Cyra Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.26 02:05:00 - [114] - Quote I was wondering if you get triage points when using allotk nanohives?
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 489	Posted - 2013.07.26 10:03:00 - [115] - Quote I am so excited about the new Amarr logi changes. Amarr will actually be viable logis and will possibly excel in their role of point-defensive logis over others with their changes as ADV level becomes a viable option (before you HAD to run Proto which was painful to the pocketbook). I really hope someone can get on this, possibly RedBleach as he has an Amarr Logi and really point out where they excel over others. They'll be tough frontline logis unlike Caldari or Gallente or blitz logis like my Minmatar, but they'll possibly be beast at sitting next to a heavy at an objective and holding it down in both defensive firefight and team reupping.
CaveCav Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4	Posted - 2013.07.26 15:47:00 - [116] - Quote Baosh Shiryl wrote: Curious: What do you Caldari logibros think about the CPU reduction that will be implemented? Especially the 40 CPU hit at proto level? Since I use my Caldari as a proper logi and not as a frontline I'm feeling the pain for the CPU loss...I'm still at ADV level so one of my 2 low slots is going to be occupied by a CPU module, so I'm gonna have to put down either my adv plating or my shield regulator and my sniper fit is going to die in one shot from a militia sniper rifle... Let's say I'm happy for the bonus change to my dropsuit but not happy at all for the cpu loss
Muud Kipz Elevated Technologies 38	Posted - 2013.07.26 15:57:00 - [117] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I am so excited about the new Amarr logi changes. Amarr will actually be viable logis and will possibly excel in their role of point-defensive logis over others with their changes as ADV level becomes a viable option (before you HAD to run Proto which was painful to the pocketbook). I really hope someone can get on this, possibly RedBleach as he has an Amarr Logi and really point out where they excel over others. They'll be tough frontline logis unlike Caldari or Gallente or blitz logis like my Minmatar, but they'll possibly be beast at sitting next to a heavy at an objective and holding it down in both defensive firefight and team reupping. I'm already ADV amarr logi (spent my AUR on the proto version to tide me over) and I'm just so excited. It seems to me that the big role benefit you can get out of an Amarr logi is running it with a swarm launcher + SMG, so that the team doesn't need to waste an assault on AV duty. In a similar vein, you can now actually have some mid-long range power on your logi suit without being gimped in close range, i.e. TAR/SMG and SR/SMG. This also frees you up to run with AV nades, since unlike single-weapon logis, you don't need the pseudo-sidearm of locus/flux nades. My only concern is that the nerfbat is going to come down on the ADV ALogi, and maybe it'll be justified. Literally no ADV assault suit gets that sexy 3/3 module layout, much less 3 equipment slots. As far as logis, only the MLogi has that 3/3 slot layout, but then it gets no sidearm. The G and C logis get both fewer slots and no sidearm. Basically, the ADV amarr logi (except for its move speed) is blatantly more powerful than any other suit in its price tier. The only balancing factor is that the amarr logi bonus (5% to armor repper efficacy) is total crap.
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 9	Posted - 2013.07.26 22:39:00 - [118] - Quote Another question for my fellow logis. I have enough SP to level Nanocircutry to lvl4. by doing this I can use the K17/D Nanohive (R) which resupplies and repairs. However in order to squeeze it into my fitting I would need to downgrade from a Gek-38 AR to the standard. This'll cause me to deal less damage to others but will also make the fitting less expensive. Should i make the SP investment and go for the K17/D Nanohive (R), or save up to max out armor skills
Jimthefighter Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.07.26 23:16:00 - [119] - Quote Go for it. I've gotten the (R) nanohives and they are a godsend. Biggest problem is actually making sure people know you've got them, since they don't really show up on radar different enough and are physically no different. However if your squad knows they can also heal, they can survive just that much longer even if your not there. Only problem is that they do recharge weapons a bit slow and do it second to healing. But still, it's good support, even if you have to downgrade gank.
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 9	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:48:00 - [120] - Quote Jimthefighter wrote: Go for it. I've gotten the (R) nanohives and they are a godsend. Biggest problem is actually making sure people know you've got them, since they don't really show up on radar different enough and are physically no different. However if your squad knows they can also heal, they can survive just that much longer even if your not there. Only problem is that they do recharge weapons a bit slow and do it second to healing. But still, it's good support, even if you have to downgrade gank. So I went ahead and got the (R) nanohives...only to find out they fit onto my fitting without the need to swap ARs. This caused me to go back to the Fitting Tool and saw that i forgot to put Nanocircutry to lvl4 as would be need to use the Nanohive. After redoing the setting it showed that the PG/CPU cost of the Nanohives from Nanocircutry would have allowed me to equip the Nanohive (R) without downgrading. I feel like such a noob lol.

Jimthefighter Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.27 22:38:00 - [121] - Quote But how do you like the new/different nanohives?
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 9	Posted - 2013.07.28 09:55:00 - [122] - Quote Jimthefighter wrote: But how do you like the new/different nanohives? Haven't had the chance to deploy them. Squad's always moving from one spot to another.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 55	Posted - 2013.07.29 20:10:00 - [123] - Quote Wait till you get to Nanocircuitry 5. Then the points really start flowing in. Nanohives + Drop Uplinks are the best way to earn WP, particularly if you are near a supply depot.
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 9	Posted - 2013.07.30 15:32:00 - [124] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: Jimthefighter wrote: But how do you like the new/different nanohives? Haven't had the chance to deploy them. Squad's always moving from one spot to another. I should keep that in mind. Then again the last few games I've been playing I didn't see a supply depot. either they didn't spawn or ppl blew them up...srsly wtf
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 380	Posted - 2013.07.30 22:30:00 - [125] - Quote The Amarr Logi has been redeemed. The super long discussion on the Amar Logi brought many fair points to the table and lead CCP to make a change. I thank them and honor them for listening to the players, taking the best factors from the arguments, and then pulling together an update that best reflected what needed to happen. Thank you CCP. Please Go to the forums debating the update and thank CCP for listening to the players and making changes. I cannot emphasize enough that they know we appreciate their work. And thank you guys and gals for continuing to post and ask questions in my absence.
RKKR The Southern Legion 278	Posted - 2013.07.31 10:48:00 - [126] - Quote I'm just wondering how RRRRR-logis experience Planetary Conquest battles? I mostly see them reduced to a R(ally)-logi spamming uplinks all over the place :-(?
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 504	Posted - 2013.07.31 12:30:00 - [127] - Quote RKKR wrote: I'm just wondering how RRRRR-logis experience Planetary Conquest battles? I mostly see them reduced to a R(ally)-logi spamming uplinks all over the place :-(? Often in PC, we're asked to haul out uplinks everywhere we can and in the most useful positions. Beyond that we're still called on for hives though most assaults are expected to carry their own on good teams. Rep Tool should be on your suit if you've got that fourth slot. Revives almost take a backseat in PC despite the importance of clones. Often battle is too hectic and chaotic and it makes it a huge hazard to pick people up during a fight which may go on until the round is over. Personally, when I'm involved, I'm almost always called out to be a Link packmule, but if I get the chance or I'm on point defense I keep up hives, rep tool, and the occasional scanner (Perhaps we could consider this Radar? Reconnaissance? Recognition? Representationalism? Rhapsodomancy?)
Jimthefighter Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.31 18:16:00 - [128] - Quote Just out of curiosity, I run a Mini Logi most times and also run with a TAC AR due to being support and I like being able to hit from a longer range. However, I've also though about using the Scrambler Rifle. How does it compare/should I ever consider a switch?
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 385	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:45:00 - [129] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: RKKR wrote: I'm just wondering how RRRRR-logis experience Planetary Conquest battles? I mostly see them reduced to a R(ally)-logi spamming uplinks all over the place :-(? Often in PC, we're asked to haul out uplinks everywhere we can and in the most useful positions. Beyond that we're still called on for hives though most assaults are expected to carry their own on good teams. Rep Tool should be on your suit if you've got that fourth slot. Revives almost take a backseat in PC despite the importance of clones. Often battle is too hectic and chaotic and it makes it a huge hazard to pick people up during a fight which may go on until the round is over. Personally, when I'm involved, I'm almost always called out to be a Link packmule, but if I get the chance or I'm on point defense I keep up hives, rep tool, and the occasional scanner (Perhaps we could consider this Radar? Reconnaissance? Recognition? Representationalism? Rhapsodomancy?) Good call Chank I may have to rework the guide later, currently I would still put them under Re-enforce. With new equipment like the shield bubbles we will see where all of it fits. I think i'm still waiting for them to fix the scanners and a few other bits. And yes, in most PC battles you will ignore the revive. Build yourself a fit with droplinks and nanohives, and a repair tool if you can fit it. And Make sure it is your best gear. Lvl 5 nano circuitry for the rep hives and nano hives. Even though injectors are great there is rarely a safe time to pick someone up until there is some sort of balancing done to the injectors. CCP related that there were thoughts of damage reduction after a revive while the nanites were still at work in the clone, or something similar. When the super power modules come out it will be interesting to see what happens. First however is getting the game to run smoother, getting all the suits, and reworking some of the skills so they aren't worthless - like reload for the assault rifle and such.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 386	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:55:00 - [130] - Quote Jimthefighter wrote: Just out of curiosity, I run a Mini Logi most times and also run with a TAC AR due to being support and I like being able to hit from a longer range. However, I've also though about using the Scrambler Rifle. How does it compare/should I ever consider a switch? Depends on how well you work with a semi auto gun. I'm not that proficient with them and barring a noob standing in one spot so I can take his head off I have to go for the spray and pray types of weapons (laser is still my favorite point and shoot). That being said, if you are good with the semi auto weapons the Scram rifles rip shields very quickly with the drawback being the over heating. You can pull five or six shots off in rapid succession before it overheats. So it limits your firetime to bursts of action where a TAR will only be limited by reload speed. That being said, if you do fully skill into the Scars then the overheat allowance increases. You also have a Charged Shot available to you which does a crap-ton of damage if it hits. Like i said, its all about shot placement. If you can, it will rip shields but has difficulty finishing off an enemy as it does 80% damage to armor (120% to shields). Look at your play style, if you hang back and soften up enemies to be killed and get more assists than kills it may be for you. There are some great killers who swear by them so don't let me keep you from trying them. Oh, at the advanced level there is an assault version for a spray and pray AR like rifle. It is a weapon that I may one day skill into. Try them out on an alt and see if you like the feel. Second, check the CPU/PG in relation to your current weapon, I forget if they are heftier than other weapons. As a logi those are important numbers to watch. SR > laser rifle. just in case you were wondering.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 386	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:41:00 - [131] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Note on the Cal shield logi. Yes, it's beast... now. Mainly because it's racial skill affects Shield Ext MODULES, not shield base. Which is broken as all getout. It means that 66 shield extenders get shot up to 82.5 shields per module. Ridiculousness, and despite CCP's love of Caldari and Shields, it's a broken mechanic that will only lead to massive gamewide entropy. And by that I mean it will end up being the only suit anyone uses, even with anti-shield weaponry where it is currently. Q&A: 1) Cal will have the highest shields in the game, but purely through modules and base stat. The "Extender Module Efficacy" will likely be getting a major tweaking if not complete revision due to the massive influx of the Caldari bumblebee. Called it in the very beginning - (second or third post in the guide) well done Chankk!
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 288	Posted - 2013.08.05 12:58:00 - [132] - Quote Bump for great resource. For all the true Caldari logibros out there: How do you fit full racks of proto equipment? My current fitting is: 5x Shield extender GEK/TAR/Burst Basic locus nade 3x ADV equipment (Drop + Nanohive + Depends on squad/map/what I feel like) Basic/ADV CPU mod 2x Enhanced Shield Regulators 1x Basic armor plate My main problem is running out of PG rather than CPU, since I can always swap in a better CPU mod. Skill-wise, I've got DS core upgrades 4, Engineering 3. Is all that is holding me back the Engineering skill?
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 389	Posted - 2013.08.08 22:31:00 - [133] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: Bump for great resource. For all the true Caldari logibros out there: How do you fit full racks of proto equipment? My current fitting is: 5x Shield extender GEK/TAR/Burst Basic locus nade 3x ADV equipment (Drop + Nanohive + Depends on squad/map/what I feel like) Basic/ADV CPU mod 2x Enhanced Shield Regulators 1x Basic armor plate My main problem is running out of PG rather than CPU, since I can always swap in a better CPU mod. Skill-wise, I've got DS core upgrades 4, Engineering 3. Is all that is holding me back the Engineering skill? Quick Answer - Get your skills up. General Answer: Sadly, you can't have everything.... yet. That is one of the current problems with the game. Having maxed out PG and CPU skills (MANDATORY), the general skill that gives you 1% bonus to each, you still need more in order to get a complete proto fit. This was not always the case. In the previous versions gettting a complete proto fit was the dream - and achievable. So, now that you are not really able to, even if you get all the weapon cpu/pg reductions as well you will still have to sacrifice. This is role defining. Better gun or better nanohive? This was also the draw of the Caldari Bumblebee or Logissault. The hight CPU and PG of the Logi suit, coupled with the bonus to shield extenders allowed for a complete proto assault suit with little to no equipment . Like i said, role defining. You have to give up something. For my Proto Nano build (a bubble of undeath and resupply for camping/defense) my proto suit runs all militia modules just to carry the equipment. You must find a balance, like :great repper and ok injector, or basic uplink for boss nanohive, or great weapon for milita equipment (backup medic), or lose a grenade or side arm slot. It is difficult, bu the more you find your play style the better you will be able to enhance your strengths.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood 130	Posted - 2013.08.09 04:10:00 - [134] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: dustwaffle wrote: Bump for great resource. For all the true Caldari logibros out there: How do you fit full racks of proto equipment? My current fitting is: 5x Shield extender GEK/TAR/Burst Basic locus nade 3x ADV equipment (Drop + Nanohive + Depends on squad/map/what I feel like) Basic/ADV CPU mod 2x Enhanced Shield Regulators 1x Basic armor plate My main problem is running out of PG rather than CPU, since I can always swap in a better CPU mod. Skill-wise, I've got DS core upgrades 4, Engineering 3. Is all that is holding me back the Engineering skill? Quick Answer - Get your skills up. General Answer: Sadly, you can't have everything.... yet. That is one of the current problems with the game. Having maxed out PG and CPU skills (MANDATORY) and the general skill that gives you 1% bonus to each, you still need more in order to get a complete proto fit. This was not always the case. In the previous versions gettting a complete proto fit was the dream - and achievable. So, now that you are not really able to, even if you get all the weapon cpu/pg reductions as well you will still have to sacrifice. This is role defining. Better gun or better nanohive? This was also the draw of the Caldari Bumblebee or Logissault. The hight CPU and PG of the Logi suit, coupled with the bonus to shield extenders allowed for a complete proto assault suit with little to no equipment . Like i said, role defining. You have to give up something. For my Proto Nano build (a bubble of undeath and resupply for camping/defense) my proto suit runs all militia modules just to carry the proto equipment. You must find a balance, like :great repper and ok injector, or basic uplink for boss nanohive, or great weapon for milita equipment (backup medic), or lose a grenade or side arm slot (amarr). It is difficult, bu the more you find your play style the better you will be able to enhance your strengths. I disagree the limiting is great. This helps build variety a great attribute of this game. It's abouty opportunity cost a better gun or better equipment? It makes everyone different and this could be bad if it was to restrictive but it isn't. Im a fan.
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 299	Posted - 2013.08.09 06:58:00 - [135] - Quote Thanks both of you. Currently though, I'm unable to fit ANY proto equipment, due to PG limitations (as mentioned, I already run CPU mod, so I just have to upgrade to a better one it to meet the CPU nerf). Most of my builds are currently 91/93 or 93/93 PG, with ADV weapon/ADV equipment. Unless you mean dropping the ADV equipment just to fit 1 proto equipment? I could potentially drop to the basic assault rifle, but I prefer to plink at range with my tactical AR and there isn't a basic version, so I'll have to get up close which in turn lowers my survivability too much to do my job. For you other Cal logis out there with pretty maxxed out fitting skills, what kind of builds do you run? Thanks again for the replies!
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 77	Posted - 2013.08.09 19:52:00 - [136] - Quote I would suggest dropping a shield extender and replacing it with a shield energizer. That will free up 11 PG which is plenty. Alternatively, you can swap out your basic armor plate for a PG upgrade. When I lay out my nanohives, I have two Proto fits that I just change into at supply depots, with 5x complex extenders, a basic AR, AV grenades, an enhanced CPU upgrade, 2x basic PG upgrades, and a militia cardiac regulator. My fitting skills are at 4/4/2 Core/Electronics/Engineering. Using these fits I can mule Wiyrkomi Triage/Alloteks/Ishukones in various combos. I try not to die in them due to the massive expense on those nanohives. For my drop uplink fit, I use an Advanced Gal Logi who has plenty of room for proto uplinks (assuming you combine them the right way). Honestly, to answer your original question, you will be hard pressed to fit a full rack of proto equipment while maintaining a Proto weapon and modules, but of course, it will depend on what equipment you want. A repper/injector/nanohives will be more forgiving than something with uplinks, unless you're willing to settle on the Allotek Stable. My final fit when all fitting skills are maxed will be 4 complex extenders, 1 complex energizer, a Duvolle, ADV grenades, 1 complex CPU, 1 complex regulator, 2 enhanced regulators, and as equipment, a Six-Kin Repper, a Wiyrkomi Injector, and X-3 Nanohives. My Logissault fit drops the repper for 3x complex regulators and proto grenades.
Tucker Wayne DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.08.11 23:05:00 - [137] - Quote What are your thoughts on shield energizer vs shield recharger? At basic level, recharger gives 15% recharge and energizer gives 25% with -2% shield. My shield at this point is 274, so I go to 270, a negligible difference.
Thrydwulf Khodan Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.08.14 01:49:00 - [138] - Quote First post, so be patient with me ... I'm still a newberry and trying to learn the ropes my first week in Dust... I'm playing casually right now and having a blast :-) A couple of questions for those with more experience: 1. With 'Active Scanning' now giving a real benefit and useful function per comments from Chankk Saotome, does that make a substantial change in terms of the recommended 'Initial 500K SP' for progression? (And the eventual move towards 5mil?) If my math is right, it appears as though the Active Scanning skill can be picked up with the first 500k SP. 1a. For the 'equipment loadout' recommendations for the 3 slot equipment starter suits (Logi M-1 and G-1), where does the Active Scanning gear fit into the loadouts? i.e. What equipment is the priority to 'drop' from the loadout? (i.e. is it Injector/Hive/Repper v.s. Injector/Uplink/Repper v.s. Injector/Scanner/Repper? Or do the Injector or Repper get dropped instead of the Uplink/Hive when adding the Scanner?) 2. Building a starter Min logi seems to be a lesson in CPU/PG pain with substantially less flexibility than I've seen so far with Gallente ... is that typical, or merely that the CPU/PG headroom is so much more with the Gallente dropsuit path due to the bonuses? 3. While the total SP is 500K for that first group, how do you determine the ISK cost to get there? That doesn't seem to be in any of the googledocs based build tools (or am I just missing that part?) Side notes for the 'Choose your weapon section': For the 'weapon' experience section choosing a Gallente character will give you the Militia Gallente Medium dropsuit and a selection of the basic weapons (AR/Swarm/SMG/Sniper etc.) and a Medic loadout with an Injector and AR as BPC's that can be duplicated and modified to decrease ISK requirements for your test. BTW: Thanks for the helpful posts, running around supporting folks has been a complete blast so far ... (though it is easy to muck up the SP expenditures the first time around...) just need to find folks with mics to help out RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: STAGE 3: Basic Skills STAGE 3a: Your First 5 Million See The posts in this thread by Chankk Saotome for the full post. A step by step process for building your Logi skill path for every 500,000 skill points. CS GÇ£did skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate.GÇ¥ - CS This is a very general flow of the whole Logi progression and can be tweaked according to your raceGÇÖs bonuses (armor or shields), but it is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment early. RB Note: Drop Uplinks are favored by many LogibroGÇÖs but still an optional skill. RB Note: Only choose Shield Recharge IF you are Not Amarr. Regulators are great, but test Rechargers yourself first before committing. Initial 500k: Dropsuit Command I Race X Medium Suit III Race X Logistics I Dropsuit Upgrades II Armor Upgrades I Shield Upgrades I Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Uplink Deployment I Nanocircuitry I Repair Tool Ops I Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (AR is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder.
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 591	Posted - 2013.08.14 03:12:00 - [139] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: New Gear to Come: Webifier: Slows movement of vehicles and infantry. Deployable Shield: Bubble shield of protection Energy Drainers: unknown Infantry Active Modules: Activated bonuses (unknown super powers) Cloaking: Either over an area or just on a dropsuit. Is this speculation or been confirmed by a Dev somwhere?
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 408	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:42:00 - [140] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: New Gear to Come: Webifier: Slows movement of vehicles and infantry. Deployable Shield: Bubble shield of protection Energy Drainers: unknown Infantry Active Modules: Activated bonuses (unknown super powers) Cloaking: Either over an area or just on a dropsuit. Is this speculation or been confirmed by a Dev somwhere? These are all equipment that has been hinted at, at one time or another, by someone from CCP - even it it is just that they like the idea and would like to incorporate it into the game sometime in the future. Most of these can be found by running through the weekly updates about what the Dev's have met and talked about. We may see some of these in six months or six years depending on the time it takes to get the basic gameplay squared away, and stop getting stuck on terrain. I would imagine that cloaking and perhaps some other active modules would be at the top of the list, followed by new equipment. These are things to get excited about, not to count on. Some may come out. Some may never see the light of day. Many of us have been in since the closed beta when these things were talked about and some of the test item info was found deep inside the eve servers. These were things like new suit variations and variable bonuses. But it is something to look forward to.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 408	Posted - 2013.08.19 18:06:00 - [141] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: First post, so be patient with me ... I'm still a newberry and trying to learn the ropes my first week in Dust... I'm playing casually right now and having a blast :-) A couple of questions for those with more experience: 1. With 'Active Scanning' now giving a real benefit and useful function per comments from Chankk Saotome, does that make a substantial change in terms of the recommended 'Initial 500K SP' for progression? (And the eventual move towards 5mil?) If my math is right, it appears as though the Active Scanning skill can be picked up with the first 500k SP. 1a. For the 'equipment loadout' recommendations for the 3 slot equipment starter suits (Logi M-1 and G-1), where does the Active Scanning gear fit into the loadouts? i.e. What equipment is the priority to 'drop' from the loadout? (i.e. is it Injector/Hive/Repper v.s. Injector/Uplink/Repper v.s. Injector/Scanner/Repper? Or do the Injector or Repper get dropped instead of the Uplink/Hive when adding the Scanner?) The suggested load outs are for basic logi support. These are what is recommended for starting out and getting the feel for being a logi, and ultimately what every logi should carry most of the time. What it seems you are asking is "can i deviate from this path?" The answer is yes you can. This is logibro equipment - the basics. Upper tier gallente and minmatar have 4 equipment slots available to them. Idealy you would put the scanner in the 4th slot. That being said, this is a game of customization and specialization! Half of my builds have the standard logibro load out, but the other half are situation specific: all nanohives, or all drop uplinks, or just a boss repper and an injector. My favorite is a supper expensive build with the the bubble of invincibility - All repping nanohives from proto on down. A huge sphere of repping that if you play your card right - ducking behind cover for 1 - 2 seconds a player is fully healed. I have a speed based hacking suit without a repper - I'm on the front line alone, who am i gonna rep? You build it how you like to play, sticking to a structured form may make you dislike it after a while. This is a guide not a rulebook. Now to your question about what to remove - tough call. If you are pointing out the baddies then where will your team suffer? From pickups or low ammo? Repairs or spawn uplinks? You can compromise - a repping hive and a boss injector for no rep tool, or perhaps a boss rep tool, good hives, and not pickupstick. It is your call, but think about what you are best at: do you often repair or pickup or resupply? Where has your focus been? Keep that aspect and test sacrificing another. THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER - that is why its fun. Experiment, I will usually ditch an injector or repper depending on who I'm playing with. 2. Building a starter Min logi seems to be a lesson in CPU/PG pain with substantially less flexibility than I've seen so far with Gallente ... is that typical, or merely that the CPU/PG headroom is so much more with the Gallente dropsuit path due to the bonuses? You are bumbing into the wall that we all deal with. Like I've said, you can't have a total proto character. The racial bonus from gallente help a bit for your equipment. This is another example of customization and specialization... and get your suit up to advanced and proto - big pg/cpu jumps there. You will also need your skills in PG and CPU maxed out as well. We can't have it all - every slot stacked with proto. I still rally for this with either skill extensions or suit upgrades (beyond proto ) but this is not the place for that discussion. 3. While the total SP is 500K for that first group, how do you determine the ISK cost to get there? That doesn't seem to be in any of the googledocs based build tools (or am I just missing that part?) I never really have considered the isk perspective. Is that on what the skills cost? or how much isk your suits are eating up? I recommend using your free suits and the isk you recieve should cover your costs and increase - make a profit - over time if you are playing wisely. If you are loosing more than you are making in battles then it is time to just use the free stuff for a while to build up your reserves.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 408	Posted - 2013.08.19 18:10:00 - [142] - Quote Tucker Wayne wrote: What are your thoughts on shield energizer vs shield recharger? At basic level, recharger gives 15% recharge and energizer gives 25% with -2% shield. My shield at this point is 274, so I go to 270, a negligible difference. For shield builds the energizers are a great payoff if you can get out of battle fast enough to get the chance to recharge. However, the CPU cost is great and we all fight that cost. Many of the shield tanks I play with use the energizers.
Chad Michael Murray The Phoenix Federation 2	Posted - 2013.08.21 00:51:00 - [143] - Quote As Gallente I've skilled up to the 5 mill mark and have leveled armor upgrades, armor plating and repair systems up to V as well. I was wondering if there's anything else worth skilling into before taking the leap into logi DS V and what my options are for "extra" high/low slots. I've been running a damage mod/cardiac regulator; not too sure if there's something better out there to fill up the slots though~
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:20:00 - [144] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: For all the true Caldari logibros out there: How do you fit full racks of proto equipment? Starting out I ran into a similar issue that you have. Not enough space. (Though I wasn't in a Caldari Suit. I was trying to wrap my head around why I didn't have enough CPU/PG space in a Minmatar [7 slots] suit v.s. the Gallente suit [5 slots].) I am going to recommend the Dropsuit Fitting Tool so you can see about where you need to go. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67188 Unfortunately Caldari has the lowest amount of CPU available at a given gear level (basic/advanced/proto), and has one less L slot at basic and advanced. That 'gap' for L slots doesn't get fixed until proto level (jumping from 2L to 4L). As an example, you can see in the numbers below the base suit and and With Max skills (level 5 in everything) and with Max Skill w/ Complex CPU/PG mods there is an interesting difference. SuitBaseMax Skillw/Mod C-I175/39230/51*Only 1 L slot C/1245/55322/72434/86 ck.0350/78459/102620/116 M-1 G-1195/39256/51346/65 G/1 M/1273/55358/72484/86 gk.0 mk.0390/78512/102691/116 A-1195/36256/47346/61 A/1273/50358/66484/80 ak.0390/72512/94691/108 NOTE: The Gallente suits subtract 25% from the CPU/PG requirements for equipment at max level. Hope that helps you! (The fitting guide has been really helpful for me.)
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 422	Posted - 2013.08.23 18:27:00 - [145] - Quote Chad Michael Murray wrote: As Gallente I've skilled up to the 5 mill mark and have leveled armor upgrades, armor plating and repair systems up to V as well. I was wondering if there's anything else worth skilling into before taking the leap into logi DS V and what my options are for "extra" high/low slots. I've been running a damage mod/cardiac regulator; not too sure if there's something better out there to fill up the slots though~ Depends on if you are satisfied that you have found your playstyle, if so I would thing you are fine. Going Proto will give you max racial bonus even if you use a standard logi suit. Plus proto gives you the extra slots, more CPU/PG, and with that you can start all sort of new builds. I usually go for the tank factor and great equipment. The bonuses that Gallente receives allows you to make the most of the equipment allotment.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:43:00 - [146] - Quote Two part question: 1. From folks who have more experience, are the Dren Logistics M-1 and the Sever Logistics M-1 suits, being the only BPO available on the logistics side, worth picking up if you didn't go Minmatar Logi? (Does the Dren M-1 suit have skill requirements like the Sever M-1 does?) 2. With the differences in play style between Logi suits as you move from Basic to Proto is there a disadvantage (other than sheer time and SP) to pick up a secondary Logi suit chain? (~324K SP for basic and then 821K SP for Advanced) Given that you can use Neo variants to try out the next higher version once you reach Skill levels 1 and 3?
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 11	Posted - 2013.08.29 18:08:00 - [147] - Quote Found what I think is a bug. My main fitting has Armor Rep, Armor Plates, and a Shield Regulator (all advance). Oddly enough if I were to replace the Regulator with Enhanced Ferroscale Plates it would say I move faster. Is this a bug or do I really move faster?
CaveCav Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 17	Posted - 2013.08.30 16:27:00 - [148] - Quote First, why is this thread not stickied yet? Second, Soulskulptor with the ferroscale you actually move faster but it's a bug that should be hopefully solved in 1.4. Third, I'm actually around 6.3 million SP Callogi, I've proto extenders, adv regulators and weaponry (AR, SR and MD to level 4) all ADV equipment (needle, scanners, uplinks, repper) with level 4 in nanocircuitry. I'm tempted to get level 4 in repair tool op, or level 3 in grenadier, or starting biotics to move faster. Should I do one of these things? Should I start saving and go proto? Should I try and get proficiency with my AR?
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 901	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:19:00 - [149] - Quote CaveCav wrote: First, why is this thread not stickied yet? Second, Soulskulptor with the ferroscale you actually move faster but it's a bug that should be hopefully solved in 1.4. Third, I'm actually around 6.3 million SP Callogi, I've proto extenders, adv regulators and weaponry (AR, SR and MD to level 4) all ADV equipment (needle, scanners, uplinks, repper) with level 4 in nanocircuitry. I'm tempted to get level 4 in repair tool op, or level 3 in grenadier, or starting biotics to move faster. Should I do one of these things? Should I start saving and go proto? Should I try and get proficiency with my AR? Grenadier III for M1 grenades is a great choice. Biotics is something everyone should have at V since it is a 1x multiplier skill. AR proficiency is a must for a logi due to our lack of a sidearm (need the main weapon to do all the work) and if you are comfortable with your other skills, pushing it to prof III is a great investment as long as you are sure it is your weapon of choice. BDR-8 is the sweet spot for repair tools on an advanced suit, so if you have that don't worry about V for a while; And if you don't (can't remember if it's III or IV requirement) it's only worthwhile to if you regularly rep people. Current meta has a lot of people preferring to just spam uplinks and nanohives and maybe carry a needle, so YMMV. The skill itself does nothing for you beyond unlock additional equipment. You seem to know what you are doing so you probably won't **** it up. Based on your questions, I'll throw some more questions at YOU: Do you want to rep better, live longer (biotics) or kill better (grenadier / AR proficiency)? Something only you can answer. Hold off on proto cal logi. Your advanced logi suit is quite decent for the next several million SP you need to earn to work on your core. And it's good practice surviving in advanced suits... pro is expeeeennnsive! GL!
Deacon Obvious Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.09.03 13:54:00 - [150] - Quote In news from the land of 1.4: The new requirement of needing them under your crosshairs to be able to see shield/hp levels really is adding to the attention you will need to pay to your squadmates. It's going to be more important than ever to have good voice communications to alert your logi when you need repping, as he may not be able to tell from around that corner how your suit's doing. On a not-logi-specific note, active scanners are going to be a must. I forsee it replacing nanohives for more than a few assault suits in the squad, as logi will be needed to pack the high fitting cost uplinks and hives. Also, scanning keeps me from having the repper out. :)

CaveCav Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 18	Posted - 2013.09.03 18:21:00 - [151] - Quote I think I'm gonna become mad with power with my scanner. I'm actually thinking about running a tri-scanner fit...
Pje251296 KILL ORDERS 119	Posted - 2013.09.03 19:08:00 - [152] - Quote I'm seeing more active scanners lately and I will be speccing into them when I go spec into Min Logi.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University Ivy League 18	Posted - 2013.09.04 20:29:00 - [153] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! I WITHDRAW ALL PREVIOUS NEGATIVE STATEMENTS ABOUT ACTIVE SCANNERS! Seriously, those things are BEAST. If you've got 4 slots or teammates handling hives and uplinks on a 3-slot suit, you NEED one of these things. That's all there is to it. Period. SENTANCE! I ran about 4 hours of matches with a friend and his pickup squad and about half way in I was sold. I skilled in to just the basic scanner and with nanite injectors a mess decided to drop it into my injector slot. Can we look at an update to the Logi Code for 1.4. Active Scanners need to be front and center in the initial 500k. However they seem to lock you into the scanner for the entire duration. (contrary to the prior setup) Please validate the functionality, as I believe that 'changing weapons' after trigger doesn't work as in 1.3. LOS changes and 'shared vision' updates have made this tool nearly indispensable even in a 3 slot loadout. The current changes to the damage views on target over using the repper have made it much more challenging a tool to use, and that needs to be addressed in some way for the document.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 987	Posted - 2013.09.05 05:23:00 - [154] - Quote Agreed. The adv quantum scanner is on par with bdr8, k2 hives and and 50% needle as far as early early goals now. Making Cal logistic everywhere regret the 3 slot layout.
CaveCav Eliters D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 20	Posted - 2013.09.05 07:32:00 - [155] - Quote I always regrett mi 3 equip layout...atm my fit is ADV Quantum Active Scanner, X3 Quantum Nanohives and BDR2 Repper, but I hate 1.4 because I can't see on the fly my teammates healthbars now
Pje251296 KILL ORDERS 123	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:24:00 - [156] - Quote Might swap my Amarr Logi for Gallente or Minmatar Logi for those 4 slots at proto so I can keep my Nanohive, Drop uplink, remote explosives and Active scanner. How do you guys fit your Gallente or Minmatar Suits?
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1009	Posted - 2013.09.05 17:24:00 - [157] - Quote Pje251296 wrote: Might swap my Amarr Logi for Gallente or Minmatar Logi for those 4 slots at proto so I can keep my Nanohive, Drop uplink, remote explosives and Active scanner. How do you guys fit your Gallente or Minmatar Suits? I drool at the thought of my dream Gal Logi fit. I mean off the top of my head some fits would be... Scanner / Link / Link / Link Scanner / Hive / Link / Link Scanner / Hive / R-Hive / Link Scanner / Hive / Link / Needle Scanner / Hive / Link / Reps Scanner / Hive / Reps / Needle Scanner / Reps / Needle / Link Scanner / Hive / Proxy / RE ... ugh the list goes on, but note the new trend lol
Mik3 H0nch0 DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2013.09.06 21:35:00 - [158] - Quote Happily chugging along with me Gal Logi I just have a quick question. Sorry if this has been asked before, I tried a few searches but couldnt find the answer. Im close to getting my ADV Logi suit with ADV equipment. What I am wondering is with that third low slot should I add another plate, repper or a regualtor? I am pretty set on going 2x Extenders in the high to add a little more tank to my suit. What I am not so sure about is how much of a benefit a shield regulator would be on a Gal suit seeing as we have such a high shield delay. Any incite would be greatly appreciated.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1087	Posted - 2013.09.09 17:23:00 - [159] - Quote limited benefit from the regulator. With logi bonus already repping you... throw on a plate.
Deacon Obvious S.e.V.e.N. 2	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:13:00 - [160] - Quote Mik3 H0nch0 wrote: Happily chugging along with me Gal Logi I just have a quick question. Sorry if this has been asked before, I tried a few searches but couldnt find the answer. Im close to getting my ADV Logi suit with ADV equipment. What I am wondering is with that third low slot should I add another plate, repper or a regualtor? I am pretty set on going 2x Extenders in the high to add a little more tank to my suit. What I am not so sure about is how much of a benefit a shield regulator would be on a Gal suit seeing as we have such a high shield delay. Any incite would be greatly appreciated. When I got my ADV suit, I had Enhanced Extenders and Plates all ready to slap on it. I went full tank, and put 2x Enhanced Extenders and 3x Enhanced Plates on it. It was pretty slow, then 1.4 dropped, and I got fatter and faster all at once.

Mik3 H0nch0 DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2013.09.10 00:43:00 - [161] - Quote That's my plan going forward minus a plate. Due to pre 1.4 pub stomp parades I have become pretty good at dancing in and out of cover, so the extra reps work wonders for me. I can't say it enough how much I love the Gal Logi, I can fit everything plus the kitchen sink on my suit
agent caron DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2013.09.22 23:32:00 - [162] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: READ AND UNDERSTAND cont. [quote=Chankk Saotome] I have a dream... It is a dream deeply rooted in the Logibro dream. I have a dream, that one day amongst the constructs of Ashlands, waves of heavies and assaults will be trailed by golden lines of life saving armor repair, standing in the glow of restocking nanohives reaching out and crushing the foe before them. I have a dream. I have a dream. That downed bluedots will not be afraid or too impatient to wait for the aide of a nanite injector and even stay beside their fellow clone for supplemental armor repair. I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by their KDR but by the true benefit they offer their team, I have a dream today! I have a dream, that one day, from sweltering plains of Skim Junction to the frozen peaks of Manus, men and women will work together and aid one another to their fullest for the benefit of all above and beyond their own self interest, I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, even right there in the fields of Line Harvest little blue dots, and little green dots, will join hands as sisters and brothers in overcoming the overwhelming odds of reddot oppression to work in the full spirit of brotherhood, I HAVE A DREAM TODAY! __________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone. thats spoken like a true logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 436	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:06:00 - [163] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: Two part question: 1. From folks who have more experience, are the Dren Logistics M-1 and the Sever Logistics M-1 suits, being the only BPO available on the logistics side, worth picking up if you didn't go Minmatar Logi? (Does the Dren M-1 suit have skill requirements like the Sever M-1 does?) 2. With the differences in play style between Logi suits as you move from Basic to Proto is there a disadvantage (other than sheer time and SP) to pick up a secondary Logi suit chain? (~324K SP for basic and then 821K SP for Advanced) Given that you can use Neo variants to try out the next higher version once you reach Skill levels 1 and 3? 1. NOPE, not worth it. Even then it is only the first level of the logi suits - so unless you go Minmatar logi they are not worth it. 2. I see not problem other than the SP drain. I've wanted to go into another (currently Amarr) to retake my Minmatar suit... but I might go Gallente for the equipment bonus (but even those are slated to change). I have a friend that the runs a heavy and also went into minmatar scout for knifing fun. Do want you want , but most make an alternate PSN account for a new character.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 436	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:07:00 - [164] - Quote removed
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:29:00 - [165] - Quote Speaking about Armor plates, I usually wont use more than 1. The speed penalty is too great and the TTK (time to kill) seems little affected by more armor. I focus on reps - surviving the fight to then be able to repair myself and others.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 271	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:03:00 - [166] - Quote On my proto Cal Logi I use one basic plate, and sometimes two depending on whether the enemy is running advanced or proto scanners. It helps enough that I don't die the instant my shields are all gone.
RedBleach Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.11 08:07:00 - [167] - Quote As you know there have been many "Nerf the Logi" or "Logi v. everything else" out there. Cosgar, Cross Atu, and many others are out there fighting in the forums to see that logis stay awesome. The Official Statement of this author is: _______________________ To Many, But not to All: 20 of these threads a day and they still waste my time in arguments that have been going on since the beginning. I've come to terms that we will never agree. Logis are great other classes suck, is that what you want to hear? You are right of course, the augmented processes for growing logi clones is quite involved. (And this is all true according to EVE lore... that I've just made up) Generally the whole cloning process just spits out fat ones, skinny ones, and angry jocks to be handed a weapon and die on the battlefield. To the logis they give the brains, the best suits, the bonuses, and for those that want the upgraded models even better skin coloring, muscle tone, and working organs to enjoy the finer things of life during their short time of activation. That the brutes of the battle class have finally noticed is surprising - i guess we've never given them quite the amount of attention that they needed. They can be as petulant as undisciplined children sometimes when they don't get their way. But no matter, the most interesting part is that these calloused Neanderthals would rather have logis sink to their level rather than demand that their classes also rise to the calling of greatness and nobility. No, they would rather that these qualities be stripped from the class so that I too might wallow in their filthy weakness. Do they demand more Module Slots?! No! Do they desire better class bonuses?! No! Do they desire greater racial bonuses?! No! But like the dog that's jealous of the owner's fine meal he seeks to take it or hide it rather than merely ask, nay BEG, for better food. It's not their fault. They have neither the genes nor the advanced dexterity to type, much less speak, about their wants to their task masters. They would rather have us all swimming in the mud like serfs than eating at the table like kings. Pick your side. Nerfs or Buffs. Get everyone to Live in dropsuit squalor or fight like kings in better class dropsuits. Your choice. May you be a better man\woman\ or even gender neutral for thinking it through. _____________________________________ We take the side that Logis are nearly perfect, but other classes are suffering for various reasons. I would urge you to adopt a similar stance. There are many arguments about modules, CPU/PG, tanking, damage, etc. on and on and on. Same thing everyday since the beginning of Uprising. Just start agreeing "Yes we are better" and then find a way to make them better too. Because they will either try to drag us into nerf oblivion or allow us to help them get the help they need. Classes should be defined and right now we are the best at many things. No set up yet has made us better at all things, but we come close to equal sometimes with modules. Modules and equipment are the bonuses of being a logi. The flexibility, the better looks, genes, intelligence, everything that they want we have. So, Please petition with them for Buffs to their classes or races and make sure that the logis stay awesome. Sarcasm is the healing balm for a festering soul.
CaveCav Eliters RUST415 40	Posted - 2013.11.12 09:06:00 - [168] - Quote I'm gonna say it, can this become the official position of the Logi community on the matter? Everybody agree? On another topic what do you think the next go to gun for logis will be? I'm talking about the new Rail Rifle or Combat Rifle (and placing my bets on the CR)
Cosgar ParagonX 7726	Posted - 2013.11.12 17:55:00 - [169] - Quote RedBleach wrote: .... I've just about done all I can over the past 6 months. My advice to any dedicated logibro, new and old, is to skill into a sidearm just in case if CCP gives in to the forum whining. Given their track record, things don't look too good for us. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Pje251296 KILL ORDERS 154	Posted - 2013.11.12 19:19:00 - [170] - Quote Got my SMG operation to 3 right now just in case. The combat rifle looks good for the logi right now and with less cpu/pg required I can put better stuff on my logi.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 471	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:11:00 - [171] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I'm gonna say it, can this become the official position of the Logi community on the matter? Everybody agree? On another topic what do you think the next go to gun for logis will be? I'm talking about the new Rail Rifle or Combat Rifle (and placing my bets on the CR) I don't know about official but it is my opinion. With every new whiner we have to come to the front and again argue the facts, that haven't changed for a good long time. At some point we either believe that CCP has heard both sides or we believe that only the loudest side will be heard. I watched the keynote for dust and eve 2013 again that celebrated 10 years of EVE and 13 as the group CCP. I have to trust CCP. When we brought up the poor and flailing Amarr logi we were heard and the suggestions that we offered were largely heard and changed. Because it was a well worked conversation with points from both sides. And while the solution was not perfect, everyone getting what they wanted, it did make a balanced logi suit. So, at this point I just hope we have been heard and that we come up with ways to balance the dropsuits, skils, and equipment to make CCP's job easier. Always ask for the optimal, the best, the just over balanced as many are going to be wanting to be less and to change what may be appropriate into a situation like asking your parents for a loan. It doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be uncomfortable. Ultimately, if someone says to nerf the logi - reply with "Your wrong, those arguments have already been settled in the past" and then, "what we should do is: _______" and that is where you insert your good idea for balancing the other dropsuits. Good luck. Rail Rifle seems pretty boss.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 471	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:12:00 - [172] - Quote Cosgar wrote: RedBleach wrote: .... I've just about done all I can over the past 6 months. My advice to any dedicated logibro, new and old, is to skill into a sidearm just in case if CCP gives in to the forum whining. Given their track record, things don't look too good for us. It could very be. But i would urge for 2 side arms then for some variety. Remember that when you skill you should be trying to use a gun that best fits your playstyle. Some own with the Flaylock, for me it is the SMG.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 471	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:46:00 - [173] - Quote Recently Posted: Quote: Meeko Fent wrote: If we buff everything else up to an OP items standards, then that masks the originally planned balance and TTK. If we buffed every gun up to the level of TAR, what do you think would be wrong? If we buffed every gun up to the level of the flay what do you think would be wrong? If we buffed every suit up to the level of the CalLogi, what do you think would be wrong? Its the one outlier among the med frames. If you throw it out, the scale of HP between suits is much more reasonable, and balance is a bit better with heavies having their HP range far from that of a med frame can reach. Buffing everything up to an OP item isn't how balance works. Here you are trying to redirect the my comment - the TAR and Flaylock are not an issue as the community at large recognized the imbalance. Buffing them would have lead to shorter TTK and we would be speaking to that now instead. Also, to buff everything isn't actually a way to find balance, but perhaps you are speaking to buffing just a few things - yeah, that does work - like the dropsuits, weapons balances in the past, recent buff to heavies, and equipment, etc. Try to keep focused here. As far as i have seen the originally planned balance fell away long ago, while it is desired it can no longer be framed as we have seen it. CCP knows. They have meetings about the original vision of the game and what it looks like now. Remember EVE had many plans that were changed along the way because it made a better game overall (watch the EVE keynote and you'll get it). Right now the Logi suits are great (please reread original post), but the others lack in skills, class, and flexibility... but they got the logi right. Now it is time to make the other suits also perform at their best and bring more than just face burning to the game. The issue is with the Flexibility of the logi that comes with the CPU/PG and module slots and class/race skills of the Logistics class. The arguments are about how to give the other suits flexibility also. So the choices revolve around two view points: Make everything suck (reduce logis to the current vanilla and unbalanced dropsuits that we have now) or make all suits awesome (raise them to a balanced level). What you seem to be saying is that if we used your solution to get rid of the logi suits altogether - your second to last sentence - that would solve the suit imbalances. That is wrong. Speak to each of the many people that use the other dropsuits and ask them if they think their suit is balanced. That the skills, the stats, the modules, the racial bonuses, etc. are all good and that nothing else needs changed. You know the reply that you will get - no, they are not balanced (for those who couldn't guess). So, your solution to remove the logi suits does not solve the imbalance problem. If you can offer something that is constructive on how to do that then do so; like an idea about skill trees or new dropsuit values that you believe would even everything out. To merely reference past changes only shows us that more change is on the way. Would you like it to be balanced the first time or a year of suck before the community sees its mistake and asks for better suits?
Cosgar ParagonX 7853	Posted - 2013.11.17 20:33:00 - [174] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cosgar wrote: RedBleach wrote: .... I've just about done all I can over the past 6 months. My advice to any dedicated logibro, new and old, is to skill into a sidearm just in case if CCP gives in to the forum whining. Given their track record, things don't look too good for us. It could very be. But i would urge for 2 side arms then for some variety. Remember that when you skill you should be trying to use a gun that best fits your playstyle. Some own with the Flaylock, for me it is the SMG. If they limit us to sidearms, they better give kb/m raw input so I can headshot everyone with my carthium scrambler pistol. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Veka Kari NECROM0NGERS 1	Posted - 2013.11.18 16:50:00 - [175] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Edit: And the logi nerf topics are starting up again. Someone remind me why I throw my ISK and KDR down the toilet to support teammates that thank me with nerf complaints? Strongly agree on those points. This whole "nerf the logi" argument is, IMO, due to the fact that we have a WHOLE lot more options to play with. Logistics suits are truly the highlight of module based game play and offer a wide variety of customization's to many situations. Before I sacked all my Logi fits to rebuild them, I had nearly 15 different fits at different levels at different costs, and each time I found myself doing better, war point wise, than the best of my squad. Even though I strongly agree that other suits should get buffs, the logi is in need of a redesign. Before you stone me to death for saying what could be considered sacrilegious hear out this point. Lo-+gis-+tics (n) : the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies. This means pretty simply, we are coordinators, planners and true support. We are not combatants, we are command, and we are support. The best way to fit that definition is to not think combat wise, and more strategically and tactically. A few suggestions to this would be, and may even create a new class if you think about it: Large radar (50m) with team sharing passive scan (no wp bonus for this), with a nerf to weapon damage by at most 25%, at least to 10% Repair tools buffed by 10% (per logi level) Shields/Armor (race dependent) buffed by 5% per logi level Active scanning (which works as a bonus to the logis already increased team sharing radar), buffed by 10m/level Other than this give a single racial and things can look super differently for the logistics class. If you think that I am spouting nonsense feel free to say, but to my last breath I will defend this option, because I believe that it is in the true spirit of logistics. Everything else, such as the current LogiBro mentality, is really the Medic Mentality. By the way, RedBleach LeSanglant, when I came across your guide I was already 2m SP in, but since then I have followed your guide closely, and now I am a pretty successful 9m SP Proto Logi that can achieve at minimum 1500 WP per match. If there were a way I could help contribute, I would hope this post shows it.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1816	Posted - 2013.12.11 14:52:00 - [176] - Quote Each day, I send a Corp mail to my basic training corp, Immortal Guides. It is a Tip-of-the-day sort of thing. Generally it is a section of a guide. Because I have an EVE account I can cut and past into the in-game mail. Although I have many guides, my Corp has been running for many many days. So I am starting to run out of material. Would it be ok if I send portions of this guide as a tip of the day to my Corp? Credit to the author would be given.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 479	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:19:00 - [177] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Each day, I send a Corp mail to my basic training corp, Immortal Guides. It is a Tip-of-the-day sort of thing. Generally it is a section of a guide. Because I have an EVE account I can cut and past into the in-game mail. Although I have many guides, my Corp has been running for many many days. So I am starting to run out of material. Would it be ok if I send portions of this guide as a tip of the day to my Corp? Credit to the author would be given. No problem, I would ask you to include a note or a link on where it came from. Though I put alot of this together there have been many mercs that helped critique it into what it is now.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 479	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:35:00 - [178] - Quote Veka Kari wrote: Cosgar wrote: Edit: And the logi nerf topics are starting up again. Someone remind me why I throw my ISK and KDR down the toilet to support teammates that thank me with nerf complaints? Strongly agree on those points. This whole "nerf the logi" argument is, IMO, due to the fact that we have a WHOLE lot more options to play with. Logistics suits are truly the highlight of module based game play and offer a wide variety of customization's to many situations. Before I sacked all my Logi fits to rebuild them, I had nearly 15 different fits at different levels at different costs, and each time I found myself doing better, war point wise, than the best of my squad. Even though I strongly agree that other suits should get buffs, the logi is in need of a redesign. Before you stone me to death for saying what could be considered sacrilegious hear out this point. Lo-+gis-+tics (n) : the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies. This means pretty simply, we are coordinators, planners and true support. We are not combatants, we are command, and we are support. The best way to fit that definition is to not think combat wise, and more strategically and tactically. A few suggestions to this would be, and may even create a new class if you think about it: Large radar (50m) with team sharing passive scan (no wp bonus for this), with a nerf to weapon damage by at most 25%, at least to 10% Repair tools buffed by 10% (per logi level) Shields/Armor (race dependent) buffed by 5% per logi level Active scanning (which works as a bonus to the logis already increased team sharing radar), buffed by 10m/level Other than this give a single racial and things can look super differently for the logistics class. If you think that I am spouting nonsense feel free to say, but to my last breath I will defend this option, because I believe that it is in the true spirit of logistics. Everything else, such as the current LogiBro mentality, is really the Medic Mentality. By the way, RedBleach LeSanglant, when I came across your guide I was already 2m SP in, but since then I have followed your guide closely, and now I am a pretty successful 9m SP Proto Logi that can achieve at minimum 1500 WP per match. If there were a way I could help contribute, I would hope this post shows it. Dude, thank you. And well done on your progression. Which suit did you choose? To your point on the upgrades. I agree that the logi suit is the most versatile. Hopefully we will see a re-balancing of all the suits in the future that will allow most classes to feel that way as well. Larger passive radar - seems to be more of a scout bonus (in need of some real love) but I could see this as a possibility for a racial bonus. Damage nerf - I don't agree. Weapons are weapons, in the hand of a child or in the hand of an adult it still does the same damage. Repair tool class bonus - I like where you are headed, but I don't think this is the tool for every logi. Logi, as you so pointed out from your logistics defenition - is about supplies and coordination. Logis are equipment specialists but forcing each logi, or any player, to carry one specific item as a class in order to get some use from their bonus is not where I would go. Honestly I think the Current Gallente bonus should be the class bonus - all equipment PG/CPU costs reduced. Shield/Armor buff - yes. but how to go about it and how much. I believe if this happened there would be a module count nerf, similar to the amarr setup, to compensate for the increased protection. But as a medic I would like some more protection but just doing that may not allow for some to be speedy logi's. With the TTK so low it is really hard to tell if this should happen before more is worked out. Active scanning - While I would love the bonus this is also more of a scouting bonus that I feel should be left alone, that doesn't make me right, its just how I see it. Well done sir, and keep the ideas coming. Keep to the code, see you on the battlefield.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 479	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:36:00 - [179] - Quote And a big hooray for now being able to see my team mates life. There are still issues with the lock on and activation/animation time but this is a big step forward. Thank you CCP
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 54	Posted - 2013.12.19 18:12:00 - [180] - Quote I'm late to the party and really wish I had seen this thread 13 mil sp ago but I have to say +1 to you guys. If i could, I'd give it +100. This is the best thread I've seen on the subject to date. As a Logisis, I have **** poor kdr and don't help kill much of anything, but I support well and its what I LOVE. I couldn't read through all 9 of your pages but I did want to add in a few comments from my own experience. I'm not a top tier player, so take what I say as just my personal opinion, but having dedicated myself to full Logi Support as intended, I found the following really helpful in my play style. - DU. Like many others have stated, I also wanted to reiterate that I rarely run DUs on my medic builds anymore. I have about 20+ medic builds ranging from 10K to 200K per suit. if necessary, I have medic builds with uplinks but with the increase in Scanner use, I find it easier to run a cheap scout with DUs as it avoids most Scanners and is really quick, quick enough for your to get behind enemy lines before they notice you. With my BPO scout, I lay down my two uplinks and take the long way back to the supply depot so that 1. If discovered, reds believe I'm solo scout and kill me but completely dismiss the possibility of uplinks in the other direction, 2. It's a cheap suit that I don't mind losing for the benefit of getting a whole team deployed to flank. - Ego. On both sides. The OP and others have already said how you're not going to be front line material. Sometimes, you pulling out your weapon to help the team is the right thing to do. Those times, if in a good squad, should be rare. However, as a LogiBro, don't count yourself short. I can't tell you how many times that with a BPO Toxin Sub Machine gun, I've popped my head out and ran behind a corner to have a cocky red chase me and get out matched by myself. I've encountered so many proto guys who take one look at my suit and assume 5 shots of their gun and its over (and it will be if its a proto gun). However, they don't strafe, they stand perfectly still, and they chase me into situations that only benefit me. Use that mentality to your advantage. Even when doing this because I'm caught alone, I love doing this to 3 reds and drawing them around the corner to my 5 greens. It's SO satisfying. -Scanners. I would recommend skilling into at least the Quantum Scanner. Most people have smartened up and done the math to skill into at least a few profile dampener skills, but with so many toys out, most haven't bothered to skill much more into it for cost. That being said, I can scan most all suits except for proto scouts who have really put the effort in. - Scanners DO NOT REPLACE YOUR EYES. Just because your scanner doesn't see anything doesn't mean they aren't there. I've seen so many red logis run right past me because I beat their scan. Use the scanner for team orientation. Use your eyes for combat. - While Scanning, try your best to only scan when your squad is nearby. As stated before, scanning is a duration process you cannot stop in the middle. I've been caught more times than I care to share with my scanner out and been mowed down. Also, a benefit with having your team around while you scan let's you concentrate momentarily on your radar. Pay very close attention. Some higher tier scouts will 'blip' on your radar but not stay light. Convey that information to your team using 'North/South/East/West' of where that mystery scout may be coming from. I'm sure there is more that I could state but you guys are awesome and covered so much and possibly even everything I already said in the last 6 pages I couldn't read through. New LogiBros and Logisis should definitely use this guide for all their Logi needs!! Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick

lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 54	Posted - 2013.12.19 18:14:00 - [181] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: And a big hooray for now being able to see my team mates life. There are still issues with the lock on and activation/animation time but this is a big step forward. Thank you CCP I am so happy to be able to see their health bars. Makes things so much easier. But I feel like a fool sometimes when I have my tool out and a blue is waiting for me to heal and I'm passing and passing and passing the [.] over then till - ah, there is is! Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1933	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:14:00 - [182] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Each day, I send a Corp mail to my basic training corp, Immortal Guides. It is a Tip-of-the-day sort of thing. Generally it is a section of a guide. Because I have an EVE account I can cut and past into the in-game mail. Although I have many guides, my Corp has been running for many many days. So I am starting to run out of material. Would it be ok if I send portions of this guide as a tip of the day to my Corp? Credit to the author would be given. No problem, I would ask you to include a note or a link on where it came from. Though I put alot of this together there have been many mercs that helped critique it into what it is now. I place the following at the beggining of the Corp mail: Quote: From: The Logi Code. Guide to Logi Success, Updated for Uprising 1.6 Found at: DUST 514 Forums>>DUST 514>>Rookie Training Grounds Authored by: RedBleachy LeSanglant, Hellstorm Inc, League of Infamy Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 754	Posted - 2013.12.20 19:39:00 - [183] - Quote You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1940	Posted - 2013.12.20 19:55:00 - [184] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
CaveCav Eliters RUST415 106	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:36:00 - [185] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. IMHO Kin Cats are not bad on a heavy, but if you have a dedicated Logi, in particular one that is using the Big Bad Boy (BBB aka Core Focused Repair Tool) you should consider stacking as much armor as you can and simply soak up damage as you get continuosly repped. The other day I hopped in a random squad where a heavy and a logi where guarding A (the underground objective in the research lab) and I helped keep him alive. We stacked a couple of Triage hives, a Allotek for ammo and dual BBBs...I don't think his armor was dropping at all. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Veka Kari NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 21	Posted - 2013.12.28 20:15:00 - [186] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Dude, thank you. And well done on your progression. Which suit did you choose? ... Well done sir, and keep the ideas coming. Keep to the code, see you on the battlefield. I will get to replying to your entire post another time, because this is all I have time for right now. I chose the Gallente Logi (A suit I feel is true support). Thank you for your praise, and I will definitely keep up the progress, and if you'd like keep you informed of my findings. Until next time, happy fighting. MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1417	Posted - 2013.12.28 23:00:00 - [187] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. I wish my Amarr suit was as fast as that gallente... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Veka Kari NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 21	Posted - 2013.12.29 08:41:00 - [188] - Quote Alright, theory crafting time! As stated before I run a gallente logi, primarily because I thought (when first starting the game) that the racial bonus only counted if you were of that race [I have since then understood my mistake and still like the gallogi]. All these opinions come from the gallogi point of view so it may be off from the minlogi, callogi and the amlogi perspective (I have no experience with these which is why I state this.) Gallogi's have more high slots which give them the ability to move faster, further, be well armored, have highly resistant shields, or hack faster (odd though seems like a minlogi concept). This means that it is perfect for following around a heavy with a repair tool, especially since it can have an EHP of 1k. This also means that its well suited for scanning (also to the benefit of a heavy and the rest of your squad) and nanohives or an injector. Gallogis are really built for true support, longevity and functionality. Now that I read over my opinions from earlier, I may have been hasty in my suggestions on how to redesign the logistics class. I have also had some time to play with other suits and understand the strengths and weaknesses that plague them. This has lead me to think about a few design ideas that will not ultimately change the logi completely but put it more in line with what support should mean. 1) Standardized equipment slot amounts. This means 3 at basic/adv, and 4 or 5 at proto. -- I say this because we need our toys it allows us to do what we do. Nanohives, injectors, rep tools, drop uplinks, and scanners are really staples that need to be available to logis. In my direct experience I have found that its really hard to balance what you need, and what you would like on your suits for the situation your in. Quite frequently I have found a favorite from them all and failing in the other forms of support. I.E. Scanner, Drop Uplinks, and a Rep tool (SDR). More equipment slots will allow the logi to do what it does best, support the team, and the squad. 2) Less High and Low slots. 2 Lows and 3 Highs max. (racial modifications as needed) -- This is needed especially if we were to receive more equipment slots. You cant have everything and this sacrifice should be more than welcome by any logi especially if they had more tools at their disposal. No one needs a 1k EHP logi running around with an A/C/L/R/Sc Rifle, it just opens up too easily for abuse of the availability, and versatility of the class. 3) Shield/Armor buff (at most 50 more shields and 100 more armor) -- As highlighted above, with the reduced slot layout this is pretty much needed, and a static addition should make up for the loss of 1/2 slots on both sides. Truly this would make us survivable and capable of some semi-sustained combat until backup arrives or the squad notices the yelling over the comms from the logi. 4) As LeSanglant suggested lower PG/CPU requirements for all races. -- Obvious, surprised they didnt just do this to start with. Being the Gallogi that I am its just second nature to be able to fit All Proto equips and still have room for some modules. I really feel sorry for the other races to have to deal with the inability to do so either. 5) Equipment buff (this one takes some explanation, I will try my best.) -- If a logi equips something, its abilities are amplified by a specific percentage depending on what it is. -- Drop uplinks capable of spawning in more infantry or spawning faster. -- Nanohives supplying more ammo/armor or supplying it faster/more effectively -- Injectors giving more armor/shields -- Rep-tools healing more or kick starting the shield regeneration by a fixed percentage. -- and maybe (to be a little selfish) scanners capable of scanning harder to scan infantry. I really feel I may have nailed it this time, and this is properly balanced and in line with the ideals us support logis keep to. Please feel free to state your opinions on this matter. MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 496	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:23:00 - [189] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. IMHO Kin Cats are not bad on a heavy, but if you have a dedicated Logi, in particular one that is using the Big Bad Boy (BBB aka Core Focused Repair Tool) you should consider stacking as much armor as you can and simply soak up damage as you get continuosly repped. The other day I hopped in a random squad where a heavy and a logi where guarding A (the underground objective in the research lab) and I helped keep him alive. We stacked a couple of Triage hives, a Allotek for ammo and dual BBBs...I don't think his armor was dropping at all. Awesome, that is the way to roll. Keep up the good work.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 496	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:01:00 - [190] - Quote I like some of your ideas and i can see where you are coming from in your explanation. The more I have tried tackling the options and ideas about balancing the classes the more I have desired to bash my skull against a brick wall. IT is a difficult thing and I don't see how it can be done with just a few simple fixes. That said i can get behind some of your propositions. Veka Kari wrote: 1) Standardized equipment slot amounts. This means 3 at basic/adv, and 4 at proto. -- I say this because we need our toys it allows us to do what we do. Nanohives, injectors, rep tools, drop uplinks, and scanners are really staples that need to be available to logis. I like this, but it may lower the diversity of the race differences. Quote: 2) Less High and Low slots. 2 Lows and 3 Highs max. (racial modifications as needed) -- This is needed especially if we were to receive more equipment slots. You cant have everything and this sacrifice should be more than welcome by any logi especially if they had more tools at their disposal. No one needs a 1k EHP logi running around with an A/C/L/R/Sc Rifle with amped up damage, it just opens up too easily for abuse of the availability, and versatility of the class. There is abuse. But this is based on CCP's move to where the higher inherent armor, shield values, and more lower the amount of available slots (we then asume that scouts give it up for speed and low profile). However, as these values are not an increase at the complex level, only ADV and lower, it could be argued that we should be given the basic values of a naked suit, a suit ZERO if you will. The original base for the SDE release numbers offering values for suits of 1.15 - an increase of the primary value. A logi is simply the most basic suit without any deciding values built in. Heavies, Assaults, and Scouts seem to be classes that have elected to essentially have prefabricated suit that therefore allows little customization. Thus the Logi remains the most customizable - as the system deems that it should be. Do I agree with the system? Not really. So, my question is what system will bring a level of diversity to each suit build without/with destroying the current class system. Thus I must disagree with your proposal, though I do appreciate the work you did in presenting the information. The model does not integrate all of the other values of the suits that CCP has determined to make them different - even though I don't agree with their system, I also can't agree with your arguments based primarily on slot counts. Quote: 3) Shield/Armor buff (at most 50 more shields and 100 more armor) -- As highlighted above, with the reduced slot layout this is pretty much needed, and a static addition should make up for the loss of 1/2 slots on both sides. Truly this would make us survivable and capable of some semi-sustained combat until backup arrives or the squad notices the yelling over the comms from the logi. Ha! I've often been that guy. For a true support class I would like this, but it loses the versatility that people desire (logissaults and more) from the logistics class. We want customization and only the logi suit provides it. That is the problem. There are not other options to essentially build whatever you want and that is what the consumer base greatly desires. Customization, not a defined cut out. Races and classes and more were supposed to fill that customization need, but if I can customize even more I will take that option over a forced format as will most others. Quote: 4) As LeSanglant suggested PG/CPU costs reduced for all races -- Obvious, surprised they didnt just do this to start with. Being the Gallogi that I am its just second nature to be able to fit All Proto equips and still have room for some modules. I really feel sorry for the other races to have to deal with the inability to do so either. This is just one step in allowing other suits to customize, but not an end-all to the many problems facing dropsuit balancing. But, it is a start. Quote: 5) Equipment buff (this one takes some explanation, I will try my best.) -- If a logi equips something, its abilities are amplified by a specific percentage depending on what it is. -- Drop uplinks capable of spawning in more infantry or spawning faster. -- Nanohives supplying more ammo/armor or supplying it faster/more effectively -- Injectors giving more armor/shields -- Rep-tools healing more or kick starting the shield regeneration by a fixed percentage. -- and maybe (to be a little selfish) scanners capable of scanning harder to scan infantry. I would like to see this in a revamped skill tree. But placing an inherent bonus for equipment on the logi class is not bad either. Thanks for your input and your ideas. Discussion, disagreement, and research is the only way I see us coming up with a decent system. See you on the battlefield... and Keep to the Code.

dogman dave DUST University Ivy League 30	Posted - 2014.01.01 14:30:00 - [191] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: STAGE 2: Weapon Choice cont. RR- the Rail Rifle has a small charge up time before going full auto. It hits hard, but most importantly it outdistances all other weapons in the rifle class which has lead to many discussions on the forums. +outdistances all +accurate CQC as well +hard hitting -still waiting for a negative. I run only RRs because I believe they are the best job CCP has done on any weapon so far. Here are what I feel are the RR negatives that balance it nicely - 0.25 charge time is too long to wait for someone with good reflexes - Total Ammo supply is limited - Magazine capacity of 42 means reload on a distant, strafing target - in 1v1 CQC 0.25 charge time means fire until you kill or go empty, else die waiting for the charge
Deacon Obvious Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 25	Posted - 2014.01.01 17:36:00 - [192] - Quote Quick question for the Gallente suit users out there. Is anyone else like me, and wishing they could have the 4th equipment slot at the ADV level? I swear sometimes I'd even trade one of the PRO high or low slots out if I could just get that extra tool in a cheaper suit. I don't like to think of myself as a proto abuser (Toxin AR For Life!), but I find myself running Gk.0 just to carry more squad support goodies.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1471	Posted - 2014.01.01 18:54:00 - [193] - Quote OP: You're missing one key aspect of the CR that makes it my new weapon of choice: It costs nothing to fit on the suit, leaving spare CPU/PG to use on equipment! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Veka Kari The Phoenix Federation 22	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:21:00 - [194] - Quote Well, we just need to work together RedBleach in order to solve the big question of class balance. I offer to you a regular meeting session with me and anyone else who is willing to 'objectively' look at the suits, and understand that things will need to change. Honestly I think that we are up to the task. As for the other edits, I think that after we have come together we will have more time (and room) to build out these 'changes'. If you would like we could host a room on DUST, Voice chat it up, and open up a google doc. Then once we are done and satisfied with the changes send it to CCP for their mulling over. Wouldn't you like to be the people who helped balance DUST? MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
Ninja Troll 7	Posted - 2014.01.04 18:48:00 - [195] - Quote Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. [Request] Infantry Only Mode or Option - No Vehicles
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1498	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:23:00 - [196] - Quote Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. I did the exact same thing, started as a sniper as well. When I snipe now (situations do still call for it) I find that the logi A/1 is a great suit for it, better than my logi C/1. Some might use the caldari because it has more high slots to put damage mods in, but more than 2-3 is really a waste and if you do that with the shield-based caldari suit you cant tank it as much to survive enemy sniper fire. (And of course the sidearm is key if you are sniping from anywhere besides a tower or deep in the redline.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Ninja Troll 7	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:56:00 - [197] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. I did the exact same thing, started as a sniper as well. When I snipe now (situations do still call for it) I find that the logi A/1 is a great suit for it, better than my logi C/1. Some might use the caldari because it has more high slots to put damage mods in, but more than 2-3 is really a waste and if you do that with the shield-based caldari suit you cant tank it as much to survive enemy sniper fire. (And of course the sidearm is key if you are sniping from anywhere besides a tower or deep in the redline.) Yeah I like to carry a 36db active scanner with the assault sniper fit since the suit is kind of slow. Currently debating whether to go Level 3 this week on my Amarr logi or my Minmatar Scout. I've been doing better with the tactical SR versions recently, since more zoom = more headshots. I made a cheap minja MLT fit with the std tactical SR, specifically for FW matches. [Request] Infantry Only Mode or Option - No Vehicles
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1511	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:02:00 - [198] - Quote Ninja Troll wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. I did the exact same thing, started as a sniper as well. When I snipe now (situations do still call for it) I find that the logi A/1 is a great suit for it, better than my logi C/1. Some might use the caldari because it has more high slots to put damage mods in, but more than 2-3 is really a waste and if you do that with the shield-based caldari suit you cant tank it as much to survive enemy sniper fire. (And of course the sidearm is key if you are sniping from anywhere besides a tower or deep in the redline.) Yeah I like to carry a 36db active scanner with the assault sniper fit since the suit is kind of slow. Currently debating whether to go Level 3 this week on my Amarr logi or my Minmatar Scout. I've been doing better with the tactical SR versions recently, since more zoom = more headshots. I made a cheap minja MLT fit with the std tactical SR, specifically for FW matches. Amarr logi. Level 3 is the sweet spot for the suit. Wait until scouts get buffed before going that way. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2050	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:55:00 - [199] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. Over the holidays I started squadding regularly with a high ranked Loti-Bro. After I outran his Proto Plate tanked Minmatar Logi suit a few times he sat me down and gave me a good stern talking to. He then made me change my fit, and was not impressed when I sheepishly admitted that despite all my other models being Proto and my HMG Proficiency being at 5, I could only equip Militia Plates. So I am levelling up the Armour Plate skill now, and have gotten more experience at working with Logi-Bro. I have to say that clearing a room with two Proto Remote Armour Repairs on me is quite the empowering experience. I have to disagree with my Logi-Bro on one thing though. He thinks that a Heavy should just do his thing and it is 100% the Logi-BroGÇÖs responsibility to deal with positioning. However, I think a Heavy that keeps track of where his Logi-Bro is, the position of Cover and the angles of Line of Site, makes a much more effective Heavy/Logi team than a Heavy that just focusses on what he is doing. I am also finding that clear communication between the Heavy and his Logi-Bro is very important as well. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 153	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:09:00 - [200] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. Over the holidays I started squadding regularly with a high ranked Loti-Bro. After I outran his Proto Plate tanked Minmatar Logi suit a few times he sat me down and gave me a good stern talking to. He then made me change my fit, and was not impressed when I sheepishly admitted that despite all my other models being Proto and my HMG Proficiency being at 5, I could only equip Militia Plates. So I am levelling up the Armour Plate skill now, and have gotten more experience at working with Logi-Bro. I have to say that clearing a room with two Proto Remote Armour Repairs on me is quite the empowering experience. I have to disagree with my Logi-Bro on one thing though. He thinks that a Heavy should just do his thing and it is 100% the Logi-BroGÇÖs responsibility to deal with positioning. However, I think a Heavy that keeps track of where his Logi-Bro is, the position of Cover and the angles of Line of Site, makes a much more effective Heavy/Logi team than a Heavy that just focusses on what he is doing. I am also finding that clear communication between the Heavy and his Logi-Bro is very important as well. I've got to say that it's frustrating when the people I'm repping cut the beam through corners or outrun me, since now we are talking about the core focused that is used with large amounts of armor I have to agree with that logibro. Since the heavy is leading and must worry about what is ahead it is my role to keep to optimal range to keep repping and to keep the heavy between me and incoming bullets. While the heavy is defining the main route it is my role to keep him and myself alive Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2052	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:49:00 - [201] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Over the holidays I started squadding regularly with a high ranked Loti-Bro. After I outran his Proto Plate tanked Minmatar Logi suit a few times he sat me down and gave me a good stern talking to. He then made me change my fit, and was not impressed when I sheepishly admitted that despite all my other models being Proto and my HMG Proficiency being at 5, I could only equip Militia Plates. So I am levelling up the Armour Plate skill now, and have gotten more experience at working with Logi-Bro. I have to say that clearing a room with two Proto Remote Armour Repairs on me is quite the empowering experience. I have to disagree with my Logi-Bro on one thing though. He thinks that a Heavy should just do his thing and it is 100% the Logi-BroGÇÖs responsibility to deal with positioning. However, I think a Heavy that keeps track of where his Logi-Bro is, the position of Cover and the angles of Line of Site, makes a much more effective Heavy/Logi team than a Heavy that just focusses on what he is doing. I am also finding that clear communication between the Heavy and his Logi-Bro is very important as well. I've got to say that it's frustrating when the people I'm repping cut the beam through corners or outrun me, since now we are talking about the core focused that is used with large amounts of armor I have to agree with that logibro. Since the heavy is leading and must worry about what is ahead it is my role to keep to optimal range to keep repping and to keep the heavy between me and incoming bullets. While the heavy is defining the main route it is my role to keep him and myself alive Well, I am already keeping track of the position of every tank without 100m, every likely sniper position, the position of known snipers, and every piece of cover within 20m. Keeping track of the position of the Logi-Bro behind me so that I donGÇÖt break the stream when I dodge for cover to avoid a grenade or some other sudden increase in incoming damage, does not seem like all that much more to track. When I first started working with Logi I was constantly breaking the stream when dodging for cover, and often my Logi ended up dying when suddenly I was no longer standing between them and the guy who had formerly been shooting at me. Maybe it was because those Logi were not as skilled, but I think it was because I was not paying attention to the health and well being of my Logi. Maybe you are just taking this for granted because you are used to working with tame domesticated Heavies, but try working with a wild untrained heavy and see how easy it is. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 326	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:08:00 - [202] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: When I first started working with Logi I was constantly breaking the stream when dodging for cover, and often my Logi ended up dying when suddenly I was no longer standing between them and the guy who had formerly been shooting at me. Maybe it was because those Logi were not as skilled, but I think it was because I was not paying attention to the health and well being of my Logi. Maybe you are just taking this for granted because you are used to working with tame domesticated Heavies, but try working with a wild untrained heavy and see how easy it is. I actually find a big difference in running with a heavy that is team minded and one that is just wanting to be the big gun and not worry about anything but kills. I've lost many a heavy and my own suit as well to power hungry logis that storm around corners not realizing that they're getting damaged faster than I can possibly heal them. (no, you're not going to win against 3 proto RRs, not even with my core focused tool). I agree with your statement in that I don't believe a heavy should be ignorant to everything and logi just has to deal with it. A good logi will still be very involved and vocal. There are times I have to cut the stream to avoid a grenade myself and then get right back in there with my rep tool. Knowing when to stop repping and pull out your gun to help is something you have to learn after lots and lots of painful experience. Sometimes, its better to stop repping and let my heavy die for 4 seconds so I can finish off the kill and pick him up. Otherwise, red will finish off the heavy and me in all of 3 shots. That being said, this shouldn't just apply to heavies. The best TEAMS I've worked on also take care of me. Assaults leave me behind way more than heavies, cause ya'know...they're slower. But still, they tend to get their reps and then run and gun. Then they're halfway across the map and asking me for scans or a needle when I'm no longer with them. This is a team game and even though I'm happy to take the dedicate 80% of my time just mothering my team (like a good logi should) you still need to pay attention to your own mates too after a scuffle. And lastly, I honestly think a change to the UI would help with this. If my screen starts turning red when I'm really really close to dying, it might wisen people up to moving. It's actually very non intuitive to try and aim, shoot, avoid getting shot AND look in the very bottom right hand corner to see how much longer you can withstand. Edit: or if the screen starts turning black and white. that would be cool too. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:16:00 - [203] - Quote Veka Kari wrote: Well, we just need to work together RedBleach in order to solve the big question of class balance. I offer to you a regular meeting session with me and anyone else who is willing to 'objectively' look at the suits, and understand that things will need to change. Honestly I think that we are up to the task. As for the other edits, I think that after we have come together we will have more time (and room) to build out these 'changes'. If you would like we could host a room on DUST, Voice chat it up, and open up a google doc. Then once we are done and satisfied with the changes send it to CCP for their mulling over. Wouldn't you like to be the people who helped balance DUST? I could do this. Just give me a day, time, and location. This would be cool.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:17:00 - [204] - Quote Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. Use whatever works for you bro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:18:00 - [205] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ninja Troll wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. I did the exact same thing, started as a sniper as well. When I snipe now (situations do still call for it) I find that the logi A/1 is a great suit for it, better than my logi C/1. Some might use the caldari because it has more high slots to put damage mods in, but more than 2-3 is really a waste and if you do that with the shield-based caldari suit you cant tank it as much to survive enemy sniper fire. (And of course the sidearm is key if you are sniping from anywhere besides a tower or deep in the redline.) Yeah I like to carry a 36db active scanner with the assault sniper fit since the suit is kind of slow. Currently debating whether to go Level 3 this week on my Amarr logi or my Minmatar Scout. I've been doing better with the tactical SR versions recently, since more zoom = more headshots. I made a cheap minja MLT fit with the std tactical SR, specifically for FW matches. Amarr logi. Level 3 is the sweet spot for the suit. Wait until scouts get buffed before going that way. I can agree with that.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:24:00 - [206] - Quote Communication is key for a logi/heavy team. If each person is not on voice coms then it becomes very difficult to work together. Telling the heavy to back off so that you can run a scan, throw down a nano hive, or whatever allows them to know when they are empowered or when they need to watch your back. It is very much a team effort. If you are just running pub matches with randoms then your main objective is to do the most good while keeping yourself alive - your tactics change drastically. But when you are together with a cooperative heavy, or team, the job is much easier and everyone will lose fewer suits. Thanks for all the input everyone
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:10:00 - [207] - Quote Sitting down today and doing alot of research for skill tree reformatting and dropsuit re-balancing. From the posts I have read from the devs like, "have some plans for the logis" to keep them from being logissaults I don't know that anything I will come up with or do will have any impact or even be worth the effort as it seems that CCP already is working out a plan they have decided upon. However, perhaps when it is released, as in the past, there will need to be some adjustments made and our efforts will then be regarded as helpful insights to fixing the issues. Good day my friends. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 162	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:37:00 - [208] - Quote Saw this? I'm already doing my math Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 - [209] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suitGÇÖs strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses: High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plate or Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Cardiac Regulator, Profile Dampener, or CPU/PGU mods These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad? Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:01:00 - [210] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Saw this? I'm already doing my math WELL, that certainly seems to cut down the need for me to do all this work then doesn't it. :) Thanks for the heads up, I had just finished cross comparing all the dropsuit bonuses, classes, and various statistical differences and researched the similar traits from Eve and was beginning to find some solutions. I do fully feel that with the introduction of such a system a full SP refund should be in order. I went Amarr Logi, for the ability to have a swarm launcher and a sidearm. Now, I would respec out of both of those and go minmatar because love the repair tool. I absolutely hate drop uplinks and feel that it is not the Logi's job to place or carry them, that is for the rest of the team - we have to haul all the rest of this crap around to serve their needs and .... ranting sorry. Amarr bonus is crap. Gallente is Ok. Caldari is OK. And Minmatar is OK. But I Do NOT like the idea of tying one piece of equipment to a specific race. - besides there is still the issue of adding bonuses to equipment that they are still having difficulties coding around. So, how true is this? I don't know, but so far I don't think this is the best solution we can come up with. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success

Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:12:00 - [211] - Quote It appears as though all Logi suits get a baseline decrease in CPU/PG cost (mirroring the original Gallente suit bonus) and then an 'Bonus' for their Racial group. Is that what you read into the suits? Urf ... and the removal of the equivalent of the Complex repair-mod.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 334	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:19:00 - [212] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suitGÇÖs strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses: High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plate or Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Cardiac Regulator, Profile Dampener, or CPU/PGU mods These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad? Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role. I'm not going to pretend I'm a pro player because I'm not, but I run logi 99.9% of the time and only run ADV suits now. Proto I save for extra special occasions as its just stupid expensive to lose. You're not the only one that feels like they die really fast. For one, ttk is too low in general in my personal opinion. For another, we're support, we're meant to be squishy to an extend. The way you're going about it is smart. If you can't stick with a well rounded team, stick to the shadows and get boots on the ground. -I have max shield/armor skill levels. I think no matter what you're running (logi, heavy, etc) this is just something we all should strive for. ALWAYS skill ahead of your suit. If you want proto, you should be a level 5 skills for core, armor and shields before you buy the suit. That means for ADV suit, don't even think of running it without armor/shields and core at lvl 3. That being said, I run a combo of lvl 3/5 plates on most of my ADVs. Some of them lose a plate for my bpo armor repairer cause 2hp/s helps more than you would think. -I don't think there should be a difference in what you run depending on heavy vs assault. Obviously an assault team might outrun you but it shouldn't be your job to keep up. It should be good team work to move as a unit, so don't compromise your suit for that purpose alone. As a proto min logi, I don't tend to have this issue as we're the fastest logis out there. -this, that or the other. I think it all depends on how you play and who you play with. If you are going to be stuck in standard, however, go ferroscale. You'll need all the speed you can get. The little bit of extra armor isn't going to help you get to cover, honestly. Well, actually, if I'm being honest, a standard suit isn't going to get you much of anywhere. It's a two shot death trap to any rifle in the game. -i find armor better than shields (but then again I started out as a heavy. I am skilling into shield regulators first. A high one of these lets me get back in the action or at least out of the corner faster and away from death. A shield extender is next for me but those two are arguably the best. I personally never went beyond my bpo for hp/s repairers. Given the max they can repair is what...7hp/s, i'm looking at these proto rifles and not seeing the value over a little more armor. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 163	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:19:00 - [213] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suitGÇÖs strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses: High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plate or Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Cardiac Regulator, Profile Dampener, or CPU/PGU mods These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad? Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role. 1) What racial suit are you running? On my ADV Caldari I run with 407 Shields and 94 Armor, on my ADV Minmatar I usually run 167 Shields 391 Armor, generally speaking if you have 500+ HP you should be fine. 2) I have many different fits, for my heavy support I run with 50% Needle, Scanner and Core Focused Repair Tool. The Core is mandatory for effective Logibroing, I like the scanner because Heavies have no eyes, you can swap the Needle for a Nanohive if you want. My "go-to" fit that I run with Assault squads has K2 Hive/BDR8 Triage Repper/Quantum A45 Scanner, for my Heavy Support I also tend to run with more HP. 3) IMHO no, Ferro and Reactive in their actual state are not worth the fitting cost. 4) If I understood correctly your question: shield give you less HP but they quickly reaload by themeselves. Armor gives you much more HP (72 HP for Complex Shield Extender vs 85 HP for a Basic Armor Plate) but slows you down and has not innate regen, to repair armor you need to find either a Repair Hive or have an Armor Repairer equipped (actually your Logi skill gives you up to 5 HP/sec of armor repair) or have someone repair you; also armor repairs are generally slow. Shield Extenders are High Slot modules as are Shield Rechargers while Regulators are Low Slots. Rechargers give you faster shield recharge rate by boosting the HP/sec you get from regeneration (i.e. you get 30 HP/sec instead of 20 HP/sec) while Regulators shorten the delay after which your shields start recharging (i.e. you'll have to wait 4 seconds instead of 6 before the recharge starts). Armor Plates and Repairers are both Low Slots but you can equip Damage Mods in your highs. All Logi suits suggest armor tanking (besides the Caldari wich you can shield tank). Finally Shield Extenders are only worth at Complex level and are not cheap at all when it comes to fitting cost. Edit: I forgot to mention Shield Energizers, they give you much better recharge rates at the cost of a small % (I think it's 6% for the Complex) of your suit BASE shields Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:54:00 - [214] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Race of Logi Suit? Have you followed the tutorial? Have you followed the first 5 million SP plan? It is outlined there, but to help you along you should have many different fittings depending on what your goal is. Generally move to the advanced level in dropsuit when you have advanced modules to place in it. Same for the proto. Proto modules first, then proto suit. And you are acting correctly to be often using standard gear and saving your advanced gear for occasions when your are running with a good squad or your corp mates. A good rule to follow is to ask them what they are running. If they are running only militia gear - don't put yourself on the line. If they are running ADV or Proto, you should follow suit. BUT NEVER play with what you aren't willing to lose. There is not established level of HP needed. Some speed tank, Armor tank, Shield tank, Gank Tank, or Cloak Tank. Use what feels best for you. What you quoted is what I often use. [quote Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad?[/quote] Yes. For example running with an adv squad I will often use a 2 stream repper so I can easily jump between the many people in the team and offer some protection while they trade fire with the enemy and move in and out of cover. Deploy hives for the team and run about between them for reps, ammo, pickups, scans, etc. you are looking after many people and trying to keep yourself alive. When you run with a heavy your commitment is to them first and squad second. Full communication (mics) to call out to pull back or move or if you need to switch equipment and repps are going down. I suggest a proto core repper, and you tank with your best gear and reppers to heal yourself because you will be taking fire if you cant rep from cover. Your Chubby Chaser fit will be very different from your normal squad fits. I would suggest Proto repper, adv scanner, and stick or hive for equipment. Lows complex profile dampener, adv or comp plates, complex repper and another plate if you can. Highs extenders and a recharger or energizer. It depends on your race for tanking strenghts, but the rep tool is the most important fit. Quote: Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? Nope, most people don't touch it as the trade offs and fitting costs don't appear to be worth it for most logi fits. Quote: What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? The Balance depends on your race - see the beginning of the race descriptions. Certain races and their inherent skills lean more toward armor or more toward shields. But that doesn't stop a caldari logi from slapping on a few plates for protection (they are shield biased). It depends on how you play. Easiest first. Armor is constantly repaired, even during combat. but it is your last barrier between you and death. Higher with reps is generally better but at the cost of movement speed. Shields, when damaged, take time before they begin to recharge at a specific rate - this is the shield recharge delay. for most logis it is around 6 seconds. For six seconds your shields will not move- though your armor will. Regulators shorten the delay for shields to recharge Rechargers and energizers increase the amount of shields you recharge each second once they begin to recharge. Some people prefer all of it, others prefer none of it. It is a question of preference, there is no right or wrong answer. When I have been playing alone i recently I just play with extenders and profile dampeners to sneak up on them as I'm not on their radar they forget that there may be danger. No regulators, no plates. But with a group I will pull out some better gear and tank and stay with them. Quote: Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline. Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. Because there are no right answers I only make suggestions and leave the learning and customizing to you so that you can figure out what you like best. I don't want to stifle a budding playstyle as mine has changed as I've learned tips from others. I know that we all like some definition for guidance so I will consider adding it. Most of my builds rarely break 400 hp in standard gear. In Adv and proto They may be about 500. One issue we are dealing with is the short TTK so that even more HP does not equate directly to a longer life - i feel your frustration. Someday this may change. It may also be your playstyle. Perhaps moving from the "rally" to more of a support role like rez, rep, and resupply that forces you to hang back with the group may be an option worth considering. I hope others on the forum will chime in. To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:56:00 - [215] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suitGÇÖs strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses: High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plate or Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Cardiac Regulator, Profile Dampener, or CPU/PGU mods These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad? Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role. 1) What racial suit are you running? On my ADV Caldari I run with 407 Shields and 94 Armor, on my ADV Minmatar I usually run 167 Shields 391 Armor, generally speaking if you have 500+ HP you should be fine. 2) I have many different fits, for my heavy support I run with 50% Needle, Scanner and Core Focused Repair Tool. The Core is mandatory for effective Logibroing, I like the scanner because Heavies have no eyes, you can swap the Needle for a Nanohive if you want. My "go-to" fit that I run with Assault squads has K2 Hive/BDR8 Triage Repper/Quantum A45 Scanner, for my Heavy Support I also tend to run with more HP. 3) IMHO no, Ferro and Reactive in their actual state are not worth the fitting cost. 4) If I understood correctly your question: shield give you less HP but they quickly reaload by themeselves. Armor gives you much more HP (72 HP for Complex Shield Extender vs 85 HP for a Basic Armor Plate) but slows you down and has not innate regen, to repair armor you need to find either a Repair Hive or have an Armor Repairer equipped (actually your Logi skill gives you up to 5 HP/sec of armor repair) or have someone repair you; also armor repairs are generally slow. Shield Extenders are High Slot modules as are Shield Rechargers while Regulators are Low Slots. Rechargers give you faster shield recharge rate by boosting the HP/sec you get from regeneration (i.e. you get 30 HP/sec instead of 20 HP/sec) while Regulators shorten the delay after which your shields start recharging (i.e. you'll have to wait 4 seconds instead of 6 before the recharge starts). Armor Plates and Repairers are both Low Slots but you can equip Damage Mods in your highs. All Logi suits suggest armor tanking (besides the Caldari wich you can shield tank). Finally Shield Extenders are only worth at Complex level and are not cheap at all when it comes to fitting cost. Edit: I forgot to mention Shield Energizers, they give you much better recharge rates at the cost of a small % (I think it's 6% for the Complex) of your suit BASE shields Thanks for chiming in and lending a hand. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 163	Posted - 2014.01.07 21:21:00 - [216] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thanks for chiming in and lending a hand. For me it's a pleasure helping fellow Logis, but I can rarely type extensive posts, because more often than not I'm reading the forums from my phone and typing long post is difficult. I usually give in-game advices, in particular since this thread and the people in here helped me so much I do my best when I can to help. Now I'm almost at 13mil SP and I know that without you guys I would have quit much time ago. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 21:27:00 - [217] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use. 6.04 mil SP Race: Primary Minmatar Logi Suit III Secondary: Gallente Logi II Rally Build: Standard Min Logi Suit 2x Militia Profile Dampeners Militia Cardiac Regulator 2 x Militia Shield Extenders SMG Locus or Flux (sometimes A/V but not normally) R-9 Uplink / Militia Stick / BDR-2 Repper Uplink will get swapped out for the following as needed: A-86 Scanner K-2 Hive Based on how I was playing I used the 5 Mil plan as a framework I'm using BPO SMG (Syndicate) and BPO Dren gear for weapons so I don't have a 'weapon choice' made. Added Remote Explosives III Added Grenades III Added Active Scanning IV Drop Uplinks IV Nanocircuitry IV Repair Tool IV Electronics IV Engineering IV Armor Plating IV and Shield Ext IV Shield Recharge II (I wasn't using recharge modules) Shield Regulation II (I wasn't using regulation modules) Armor Repair II (I wasn't using repair modules except in scout fits) I've been tending towards Stealth/Speed tanking and the SMG reminds me that I need to stick close to my team.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:13:00 - [218] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use. 6.04 mil SP Race: Primary Minmatar Logi Suit III Secondary: Gallente Logi II Rally Build: Standard Min Logi Suit 2x Militia Profile Dampeners Militia Cardiac Regulator 2 x Militia Shield Extenders SMG Locus or Flux (sometimes A/V but not normally) R-9 Uplink / Militia Stick / BDR-2 Repper Uplink will get swapped out for the following as needed: A-86 Scanner K-2 Hive Based on how I was playing I used the 5 Mil plan as a framework I'm using BPO SMG (Syndicate) and BPO Dren gear for weapons so I don't have a 'weapon choice' made. Added Remote Explosives III Added Grenades III Added Active Scanning IV Drop Uplinks IV Nanocircuitry IV Repair Tool IV Electronics IV Engineering IV Armor Plating IV and Shield Ext IV Shield Recharge II (I wasn't using recharge modules) Shield Regulation II (I wasn't using regulation modules) Armor Repair II (I wasn't using repair modules except in scout fits) I've been tending towards Stealth/Speed tanking and the SMG reminds me that I need to stick close to my team. Thats a decent fit. And if you are running solo i can see it working well. I'm sure the range on the RR's compared to the SMG doesn't help the situation, I've noticed my KDR took a dip upon their introduction. Minmatar is the speediest and also has the lowest initial HP out of the group, but is a hell of a lot better than the Gal until it hits the ADV and PROTO level. But even then, those are the two best logi's out there. I am not the best person to ask or the best logi, but i do have alot of experience and these are things that I have done. Switching up playstyles every once ina while will keep you from getting bored. You have a good fit there, but I would make a few changes and see what they do for you. First, I would suggest dropping the SMG for a time. Pick up the RR or AR - low fitting costs and see if gaining some distance on your enemies helps. They both do fine CQC and with as much as you have had to plan and strategically move your way around the map to actually get close enough to kill an enemy with your SMG the jump in range will probably surprise you, and keeping out of the way you will also have more cover and will be less likely to be surrounded or take fire from another member of the opponents squad. Remember that often additional firepower is needed more than reps that cant mitigate the damage. Second. If going solo make all your equipment except your scanner militia level, if you are going to be dying alot there is no need to loose that better equipment. Also, you may have learned by now some of the corps that are just good and ones that proto stomp, if you see their names on the opposing side just know that you are going to die and go cheap (unless your team has a chance). Third. Made an ADV fit. ADV of all your modules and then adv scanner, and whatever else you like to use. Note the price. See how many times you can die in a match (averaging 150k ISK at the end) and still make a profit. Then make a rule. I will only use it X times before I just bring out my crap gear. And stick to it. But use that fit when playing in a mic squad, and pray they don't play halo style and just throw bodies at the problems but rather try to coordinate a plan of attack. Fourth, Get that Repair tool to proto OR fight some Minmatar FW in order to get enough loyalty points to buy and use a two streamer. You will never go back. ALSO, get to proto so you can chase a heavyHMG and experience that. Even a STD Heavy can have over a thousand Armor with two plates on. The stream on the Focused Core (175HPS!) is only 10 meters so you have to stay close and still survive. Build a Chubby chaser fit. Fifth. and this will take time, Move for a complex repper module or go proto for the benefit of the passive bonus (DISCLAIMER you may want to wait as the bonuses will change in the next few months). The 3hp that you are getting as the passive bonus is not enough to follow a heavy. You need a quicker repair or a way to quickly recover HP so that you and the heavy can keep moving but also sustain some heavy fire. You can go the shields and regulators route with the Min, but I still prefer armor (2adv plate and 1complex repper). OR have another logi in the group that will be repping you when needed if you are staying in the squad. Lastly, squad with me and few of my friends if you want a different experience from your corp mates. Channel is: Redbleach Republic The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1525	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:41:00 - [219] - Quote I'd like to chime in here on fittings. I run Amarr logi and enjoy playing a little recklessly (I don't care about my KDR and have enough ISK to sustain a certain level of stupidity) so I tank max armor and split my highs between shields and damage mods. That's my general fit, I have 5 or 6 different ADV suits with various combinations of weapons and equipment for different situations and maps, but they all have basically the same high/low slot combo of tank and gank. With one exception. On my chubby chaser fit I go max tank with a core rep tool, hive, and scanner. I figure if the heavy dies, I'm next so don't carry a needle on it. It's probably more likely that he will run out of ammo rather than he dies and I survive long enough in CQC to revive him. Scanner is huge for this fit because since it's almost all CQC, especially in a place like the Gallente facility, you have to know your surroundings. Still pondering the changes. Not happy about losing the inherent armor rep, but since I love uplinks, I guess I can live with the Amarr bonus, though I do think its a little limiting to give each suit a bonus to only one type of equipment. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 510	Posted - 2014.01.08 05:48:00 - [220] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I'd like to chime in here on fittings. I run Amarr logi and enjoy playing a little recklessly (I don't care about my KDR and have enough ISK to sustain a certain level of stupidity) so I tank max armor and split my highs between shields and damage mods. That's my general fit, I have 5 or 6 different ADV suits with various combinations of weapons and equipment for different situations and maps, but they all have basically the same high/low slot combo of tank and gank. With one exception. On my chubby chaser fit I go max tank with a core rep tool, hive, and scanner. I figure if the heavy dies, I'm next so don't carry a needle on it. It's probably more likely that he will run out of ammo rather than he dies and I survive long enough in CQC to revive him. Scanner is huge for this fit because since it's almost all CQC, especially in a place like the Gallente facility, you have to know your surroundings. Still pondering the changes. Not happy about losing the inherent armor rep, but since I love uplinks, I guess I can live with the Amarr bonus, though I do think its a little limiting to give each suit a bonus to only one type of equipment. Thanks, every input is valuable to teach and to change minds - of CCP that is. :) The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 0	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:22:00 - [221] - Quote i started playing logi (Winmatar) a few days ago just hit the 1mill mark just now and i have to say im enjoying it. there are sometimes when i feel like i suck but thats ok cause i know im helping the team more then the snipers atleast :P i find when we have like 1/4 or atleast 1/5th of the team it can become quice a slug fest vs squads or proto stompers but we manage to hold out for a while and sometimes even win... And then the HAVs and dropships with missles come... Game over man! Game over! i have a preferance for the scrambler due to its dps and the charged shot.. i normally run with shield extenders plates and my logi slots are drop, Rez and Ammo+ (the armor repper one) and it got me thinking why isnt there a deployable armor and/or shield repper nanite pack we can drop on the ground... another thought was running with ammo+ x2 on caldari logi for a more offensive team based squad perhaps? ps. i kind of went for the standard weapon before increasing other skills to 2+ it seemed to help a nice amount currently going nano 3 for the injector and hives then probably repair tool 2 then 3 then armor plates 2 and 3. pps. i feel shield extenders are rather gimp when compaired to plates, and the fact they take up the space of damage moduals too sucks :E
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1557	Posted - 2014.01.10 12:32:00 - [222] - Quote Well, shields are not as good as armor currently (Used to be the other way around) because of the low TTK. Maxing out your HP seems to be the most effective build currently. If I still ran my Caldari suits (rarely now) I think I would probably either drop damage mods altogether or just use 1. Damage mods actually are not superior to just maxing out your HP, especially for a support-oriented player, and especially anything lower than a complex damage mod. Also, you need to max out shield extenders ASAP, complex extenders are much better than enhanced. Armor is the opposite, you get the same or more bang for your buck with basic plates. Build wise, probably individualizing for your playstyle is the way to go. I have one general suit with a hive, repper, and uplink that I use most of the time. I do also have a suit that is all nanohives like you are suggesting, for like a domination match or something where you will need a lot at once (sometimes I spawn in with that, drop all the hives by the battle zones, and then sneak out to the supply depot and switch to the all-purpose suit.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 171	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:24:00 - [223] - Quote My Domination build is a two-stager. Phase 1 is a speedy, low HP, all Uplink fit, made to get to the point ASAP, hack it, and set up uplinks for the team to spawn and estabilish a foothold; is a sort of throwaway suit so is really cheap, BPO AR and mosly militia modules. Phase 2 is tankier and also has damage dealing abilities, i fit a A45 Scanner and 2 K17D (R) Hives. I run Flux grenades on both fits because equipment spam is bad. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 357	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:23:00 - [224] - Quote CaveCav wrote: My Domination build is a two-stager. Phase 1 is a speedy, low HP, all Uplink fit, made to get to the point ASAP, hack it, and set up uplinks for the team to spawn and estabilish a foothold; is a sort of throwaway suit so is really cheap, BPO AR and mosly militia modules. Phase 2 is tankier and also has damage dealing abilities, i fit a A45 Scanner and 2 K17D (R) Hives. I run Flux grenades on both fits because equipment spam is bad. This is almost exactly my play style. My Phase 1 is actually a bpo scout with a bpo toxin machine gun and DUs. Phase 2 is ADV Min Logi with a large number to chose from depending on the situation. 80% of the time its: scanner, repper, injector. But I also have builds with ammo/REs and increasing cost builds depending on the level of the equipment I'm carrying that is dependent on how good my team is currently. Flux grenades on all. If ever we end up losing all the spawn points, I man up the DU scout again. I never expect to live in the scout, so I'm fine losing him over and over again as cheap as he is. The other day I spawned into a game we were losing but was determined to get boots back on the ground. Even though we still lost, I had a smile on my face because of how well my team kept trying. We lost all the DUs I placed earlier so I ran to the other side of the complex and laid down 2 more in opposing sides. I got killed, then my team came and flanked him on both sides and made a good push. It's amazing how much such little placements can really start to turn tides. Wasn't a win on the score board but was a win to know supporting has its place in this game. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 517	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:42:00 - [225] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Well, shields are not as good as armor currently (Used to be the other way around) because of the low TTK. Maxing out your HP seems to be the most effective build currently. If I still ran my Caldari suits (rarely now) I think I would probably either drop damage mods altogether or just use 1. Damage mods actually are not superior to just maxing out your HP, especially for a support-oriented player, and especially anything lower than a complex damage mod. Also, you need to max out shield extenders ASAP, complex extenders are much better than enhanced. Armor is the opposite, you get the same or more bang for your buck with basic plates. Build wise, probably individualizing for your playstyle is the way to go. I have one general suit with a hive, repper, and uplink that I use most of the time. I do also have a suit that is all nanohives like you are suggesting, for like a domination match or something where you will need a lot at once (sometimes I spawn in with that, drop all the hives by the battle zones, and then sneak out to the supply depot and switch to the all-purpose suit.) Well said, making your logi fit your playstyle is the best move a player can make. Even as fun as learning a new style is, being able to play how you have in other shooters is comfortable. But because Dust has its current issues High HP, dampeners, and moving from cover to cover, and flanking - if you are not already doing so - is usually good advice as opposed to just throwing body after body into a bullet storm. Extenders do feel a bit like decoration, but even just those few hit points help, and rechargers or energizers are sometimes worth it on some builds - works well for my chubby chaser fits. Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential. Thank you all for your additions. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 517	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:44:00 - [226] - Quote lee corwood wrote: CaveCav wrote: My Domination build is a two-stager. Phase 1 is a speedy, low HP, all Uplink fit, made to get to the point ASAP, hack it, and set up uplinks for the team to spawn and estabilish a foothold; is a sort of throwaway suit so is really cheap, BPO AR and mosly militia modules. Phase 2 is tankier and also has damage dealing abilities, i fit a A45 Scanner and 2 K17D (R) Hives. I run Flux grenades on both fits because equipment spam is bad. This is almost exactly my play style. My Phase 1 is actually a bpo scout with a bpo toxin machine gun and DUs. Phase 2 is ADV Min Logi with a large number to chose from depending on the situation. 80% of the time its: scanner, repper, injector. But I also have builds with ammo/REs and increasing cost builds depending on the level of the equipment I'm carrying that is dependent on how good my team is currently. Flux grenades on all. If ever we end up losing all the spawn points, I man up the DU scout again. I never expect to live in the scout, so I'm fine losing him over and over again as cheap as he is. The other day I spawned into a game we were losing but was determined to get boots back on the ground. Even though we still lost, I had a smile on my face because of how well my team kept trying. We lost all the DUs I placed earlier so I ran to the other side of the complex and laid down 2 more in opposing sides. I got killed, then my team came and flanked him on both sides and made a good push. It's amazing how much such little placements can really start to turn tides. Wasn't a win on the score board but was a win to know supporting has its place in this game. Well done, well done. Your rally approach seems most befitting. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1564	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:51:00 - [227] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: lee corwood wrote: CaveCav wrote: My Domination build is a two-stager. Phase 1 is a speedy, low HP, all Uplink fit, made to get to the point ASAP, hack it, and set up uplinks for the team to spawn and estabilish a foothold; is a sort of throwaway suit so is really cheap, BPO AR and mosly militia modules. Phase 2 is tankier and also has damage dealing abilities, i fit a A45 Scanner and 2 K17D (R) Hives. I run Flux grenades on both fits because equipment spam is bad. This is almost exactly my play style. My Phase 1 is actually a bpo scout with a bpo toxin machine gun and DUs. Phase 2 is ADV Min Logi with a large number to chose from depending on the situation. 80% of the time its: scanner, repper, injector. But I also have builds with ammo/REs and increasing cost builds depending on the level of the equipment I'm carrying that is dependent on how good my team is currently. Flux grenades on all. If ever we end up losing all the spawn points, I man up the DU scout again. I never expect to live in the scout, so I'm fine losing him over and over again as cheap as he is. The other day I spawned into a game we were losing but was determined to get boots back on the ground. Even though we still lost, I had a smile on my face because of how well my team kept trying. We lost all the DUs I placed earlier so I ran to the other side of the complex and laid down 2 more in opposing sides. I got killed, then my team came and flanked him on both sides and made a good push. It's amazing how much such little placements can really start to turn tides. Wasn't a win on the score board but was a win to know supporting has its place in this game. Well done, well done. Your rally approach seems most befitting. The key to uplink placement, especially in domination is definitely to create multiple angles of attack just like you describe. This is my approach, I use a "Fossil" BPO, generally. The 2 equip slots are key. It's a little slower but more durable and flexible than my dragonfly scout. Gotta love BPO's for those suicide missions. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 520	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:54:00 - [228] - Quote So, after much consideration about dropsuits and bonuses it looks like CCP already has a plan in place and will be unveiling it at one time or another. While they have given the bonuses, per Sisi, they have not given any of the suit changes. For example will PG/CPU be cut for all suits, slot changes, HP changes, etc. Thus, as it stands all that we can currently do is critique what info has been given. I will be posting my opinions about the bonuses on the forums and offering my own ideas as the week moves on. I would ask you to do the same as CCP needs the many voices and viewpoints on these subjects to make informed decisions about what to do, what to change, and how to adjust it. Granted, they may not use any of our ideas, but CCP has listened to the community when we discussed the AMARR LOGI and took some of our input there, but not all, and made it a functional and balanced suit. We have to wait until the rest of the plan is unveiled. It may not be until the day that they release it, or it may be sooner. Either way, we will have alot of work to do once we have that information. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1564	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:55:00 - [229] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential. Thank you all for your additions. Hmm.... you've almost convinced me to finally get level 5 on the core armor skill. I had been following Shay-z's advice and leaving it alone for a long time since it only applies to the base armor of the suit, not any plates. Gonna think about that one... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 520	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:59:00 - [230] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential. Thank you all for your additions. Hmm.... you've almost convinced me to finally get level 5 on the core armor skill. I had been following Shay-z's advice and leaving it alone for a long time since it only applies to the base armor of the suit, not any plates. Gonna think about that one... Wait!, No, not the CORE ARMOR Upgrade skill, but the one that gives you the access tot he Plate armor: ARMOR PLATING. It ads an extra 10% once maxed out.... really only 10 percent? yest, but it is amazing how often just that little amount comes into play - i've been taken there many times. Again, it is low on the list of things to max out, but it is useful, especially at the adv level. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1565	Posted - 2014.01.10 21:31:00 - [231] - Quote Oh, duh. Well, still, I'm using heavy suit/FG for my AV now so I was thinking maybe I should do it anyway. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 358	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:16:00 - [232] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: The key to uplink placement, especially in domination is definitely to create multiple angles of attack just like you describe. This is my approach, I use a "Fossil" BPO, generally. The 2 equip slots are key. It's a little slower but more durable and flexible than my dragonfly scout. Gotta love BPO's for those suicide missions. I've read this post. It's a great read. I wish I had seen it much earlier in my logi days. There were still some nice fleshy bits I got from it, but 6 months ago, I was that tard putting droplinks facing the wall and right on top of the objective. If I had seen this post, I'd be in a much better spot today. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1566	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:25:00 - [233] - Quote lee corwood wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The key to uplink placement, especially in domination is definitely to create multiple angles of attack just like you describe. This is my approach, I use a "Fossil" BPO, generally. The 2 equip slots are key. It's a little slower but more durable and flexible than my dragonfly scout. Gotta love BPO's for those suicide missions. I've read this post. It's a great read. I wish I had seen it much earlier in my logi days. There were still some nice fleshy bits I got from it, but 6 months ago, I was that tard putting droplinks facing the wall and right on top of the objective. If I had seen this post, I'd be in a much better spot today. Lol, I was that tard about 8 months ago! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Saranova Farreach Expert Intervention Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.01.11 07:36:00 - [234] - Quote i recently UN-tarded myself after realiseing you spawn the way the drop uplink has been placed down :P
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2014.01.25 01:22:00 - [235] - Quote Every logi should be posting on the new equipment stats. Here is what I have written: Thanks: CCP, Thank you for posting these stats early in an effort to communicate with the community. Though there are many varied opinions and replies CCP's professionalism in asking for feedback in these coming updates allows for, what I feel, will be a positive change overall. Thank you for hearing your consumer base that is desiring to respond to ideas before they are initiated and opening the door for possible insights that may not have been fully explored in house. Item Feedback: From an experienced Logibro. Deployable Equipment: These adjustments will be trouble if new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits - negates cluster limitation, DUs, and all deployable equipment. One nerf, not two please. Suit Bonus Influence: Reason for changes MUST NOT be for possible future suit bonus as that would mean the the bonuses are SET IN STONE which is another matter altogether. Changes should have reason and purpose independent of this. Drop Uplinks (DU): SUPPORTED. Currently spammed. The top level items allowing for near immediate return to battle. They renders many other spawning options irrelevant due to shortened spawn time and unique locations. They also have more HP than many of the dropsuits that are in battle. The new adjustments the new DUs, without any changes to current spawn timers at CRU's or objectives, mean sacrificing speed for positioning until the Uplinks reach the Prototype level with the spawn time either near half of what it would have been or just over a normal 10sec spawn time. I believe this to be a good change as it may shift battles to waves of skirmishes rather than a constant and unrelenting battle - as fun as it may be searching for all the uplinks and only being able to take a breath once a whole area is clear and everything hacked - could be a positive change. The drop in item health is welcomed. The resistance to players wanting this change is understandable. Nanohives: NOT SUPPORTED. Currently they may or may not last longer than the mercs that place them in battle, depending on the ammo resupplied (or triage). Whether that is because the squad using them had moved on, whether it is because they all died, or whatever the reason there are usually lone random nanohives lying about at any given time on the battlefield. That being said they are often destroyed through the exhaustion of their clusters as well depending on how each unique conflict proceeds. I find that without further information on the reason for the change that dropping each hive's cluster amount by 1/3rd (33%) is unwarranted. CCP's data may explain if more are wasted rather than used up as the reason, or somehow this shift will lead to the projected gameplay experience with waves of battle and increased TTK. Suggestion If the adjustment was made for less clusters BUT added one more deployable hive and kept the max active limit enforced then the change would be less grotesque. Allowing for limited resupply, keeping in line with the waves of battle idea, the reward for surviving would be to be being able to deploy another hive - death would eliminate that possibility and equipment would be lost/wasted. With the current limited information we have available - I do not support this change. Repair Tools: MIXED SUPPORT. Currently they repair survivors and may be used to keep a merc alive under certain amounts of enemy fire. The proposed changes alter 1 repair tool's repair rate and changes all repair tools' ranges. Core Focused Rate: IFF (IF and only IF) TTK is increased and weapon fire damage decreased -ect. - then the repair rate change is acceptable as this new playstyle may be nearly identical and a repair rate that high may be seen as acceptable. (not addressing suit bonuses here). That being said - in the current gameplay the adjustment doesn't fit as it is not quiet enough to keep a suit alive in most conflict situations. However, if this new playstyle of logi/heavy is unwanted in the projected vision of the game then the adjustment would signal the end of such useful duos and lead to needing two reppers on a soldier (removing another from battle) to accomplish the same thing - the original reason this wasn't done in the past as that kind of coordination is nearly impossible with movement and streams. Range: UNSUPPORTED. Distance is difficult to measure in this game. Sprinting F's up the hud distance and there is no readout for even guessing the distance of those lines on the radar (middle line is like 70 meters or something), but even then guessing the distance to lock onto someone was difficult enough and the current range (especially flux) allowed for working with the TERRIBLE LOCK ON MECHANIC in order to acquire a lock and begin repping the soldier. The current distance was also a buffer that allowed the logi to finish repping while the mercs sprinted away and also allowed the Logi to adjust their position during battle if keeping the merc(s) repped, to try and stay alive, while the mercs with big guns fight the red dots. Suggestions: Lock on times need adjusted (regardless of any other change - distance just made it more manageable). A range increase at each new tier. It starts that way with the next level meeting the flux distance: std 10, flux 15. Then adv 15, (No FLUX?) 18-20. Then proto 18-20, flux 23-25. Distance (useless against RRs) is how a repair logi stays alive and keeps his mercs alive. This should not change and 10m MUST be the minimum distance as it feels almost like melee combat. No lock should be closer. Active Scanners: SUPPORTED. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 208	Posted - 2014.01.25 09:08:00 - [236] - Quote Now show me on the doll where CCP hurt you... points finger I would like to point out that the Logistic indicated the Equipment Slots Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 32	Posted - 2014.01.25 12:14:00 - [237] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Every logi should be posting on the new equipment stats. Here is what I have written: Thanks: CCP, Thank you for posting these stats early in an effort to communicate with the community. Though there are many varied opinions and replies CCP's professionalism in asking for feedback in these coming updates allows for, what I feel, will be a positive change overall. Thank you for hearing your consumer base that is desiring to respond to ideas before they are initiated and opening the door for possible insights that may not have been fully explored in house. Item Feedback: From an experienced Logibro. Deployable Equipment: These adjustments will be trouble if new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits - negates cluster limitation, DUs, and all deployable equipment. One nerf, not two please. Suit Bonus Influence: Reason for changes MUST NOT be for possible future suit bonus as that would mean the the bonuses are SET IN STONE which is another matter altogether. Changes should have reason and purpose independent of this. Drop Uplinks (DU): SUPPORTED. Currently spammed. The top level items allowing for near immediate return to battle. They renders many other spawning options irrelevant due to shortened spawn time and unique locations. They also have more HP than many of the dropsuits that are in battle. The new adjustments the new DUs, without any changes to current spawn timers at CRU's or objectives, mean sacrificing speed for positioning until the Uplinks reach the Prototype level with the spawn time either near half of what it would have been or just over a normal 10sec spawn time. I believe this to be a good change as it may shift battles to waves of skirmishes rather than a constant and unrelenting battle - as fun as it may be searching for all the uplinks and only being able to take a breath once a whole area is clear and everything hacked - could be a positive change. The drop in item health is welcomed. The resistance to players wanting this change is understandable. Nanohives: NOT SUPPORTED. Currently they may or may not last longer than the mercs that place them in battle, depending on the ammo resupplied (or triage). Whether that is because the squad using them had moved on, whether it is because they all died, or whatever the reason there are usually lone random nanohives lying about at any given time on the battlefield. That being said they are often destroyed through the exhaustion of their clusters as well depending on how each unique conflict proceeds. I find that without further information on the reason for the change that dropping each hive's cluster amount by 1/3rd (33%) is unwarranted. CCP's data may explain if more are wasted rather than used up as the reason, or somehow this shift will lead to the projected gameplay experience with waves of battle and increased TTK. Suggestion If the adjustment was made for less clusters BUT added one more deployable hive and kept the max active limit enforced then the change would be less grotesque. Allowing for limited resupply, keeping in line with the waves of battle idea, the reward for surviving would be to be being able to deploy another hive - death would eliminate that possibility and equipment would be lost/wasted. With the current limited information we have available - I do not support this change. Repair Tools: MIXED SUPPORT. Currently they repair survivors and may be used to keep a merc alive under certain amounts of enemy fire. The proposed changes alter 1 repair tool's repair rate and changes all repair tools' ranges. Core Focused Rate: IFF (IF and only IF) TTK is increased and weapon fire damage decreased -ect. - then the repair rate change is acceptable as this new playstyle may be nearly identical and a repair rate that high may be seen as acceptable. (not addressing suit bonuses here). That being said - in the current gameplay the adjustment doesn't fit as it is not quiet enough to keep a suit alive in most conflict situations. However, if this new playstyle of logi/heavy is unwanted in the projected vision of the game then the adjustment would signal the end of such useful duos and lead to needing two reppers on a soldier (removing another from battle) to accomplish the same thing - the original reason this wasn't done in the past as that kind of coordination is nearly impossible with movement and streams. Range: UNSUPPORTED. Distance is difficult to measure in this game. Sprinting F's up the hud distance and there is no readout for even guessing the distance of those lines on the radar (middle line is like 70 meters or something), but even then guessing the distance to lock onto someone was difficult enough and the current range (especially flux) allowed for working with the TERRIBLE LOCK ON MECHANIC in order to acquire a lock and begin repping the soldier. The current distance was also a buffer that allowed the logi to finish repping while the mercs sprinted away and also allowed the Logi to adjust their position during battle if keeping the merc(s) repped, to try and stay alive, while the mercs with big guns fight the red dots. Suggestions: Lock on times need adjusted (regardless of any other change - distance just made it more manageable). A range increase at each new tier. It starts that way with the next level meeting the flux distance: std 10, flux 15. Then adv 15, (No FLUX?) 18-20. Then proto 18-20, flux 23-25. Distance (useless against RRs) is how a repair logi stays alive and keeps his mercs alive. This should not change and 10m MUST be the minimum distance as it feels almost like melee combat. No lock should be closer. Active Scanners: SUPPORTED. Where is this information coming from? Is there like a newsfeed or something I have to subscribe to? We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 528	Posted - 2014.01.26 09:06:00 - [238] - Quote Feedback requests from CCP: New Equipment Stats. Nerf to all equipment. - Cooldown times on scanners increased. Scanner functionality has been improved to do GÇ£snapshotGÇ¥ scans in order to stop 360 degree spins. - Range on repair tools reduced. and the core focused repair rate is reduced to original 125 hp/s - Drop uplink spawn times increased. - Nanohive nanite supply reduced. Dropsuit Stats and Skills. New Sentinel (heavy), Commando, and Scout bonuses. Lots of debates going on about slot and hp amounts and scout bonuses - scouts do get better generally but the amarr bonus is crap and still coming up with ideas on what to do. Weapon Stats and Ranges New pistols look OP - some debate about it, but we won't know how much of a game killer they are until they are deployed in battle - much like the RR and CR were a big surprise and are now THE dominant weapons on the field right now. On a side note Possible suit bonuses that include the medium frames of assault and logi Currently the logi and assault bonuses are a mistake. The logi has a good class bonus but the racials leave much to be desired when they could be instead incorporated into a skill tree. And the assault bonuses decrease TTK with the ROF increase and now apparently have the old logi bonuses... Currently they are the subject of much debate. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 209	Posted - 2014.01.26 14:43:00 - [239] - Quote I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them. Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me. Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills. Nanite Injectors I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor. I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill. I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit). NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP. ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP. On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy. SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG. For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level Repair Tools Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ). Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool. This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active. PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot) ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar) Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you) Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level Drop Uplinks Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants. HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks. COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player. Since Drop Uplinks will become a vital piece of equipment I thought about 2 possible skills: 1) -5% to Drop Uplink Scan Profile per level this would make them harder to detect for the enemy team 2) +5% to Drop Uplink Scan Radius and Scan Precision per level this would give a player an idea about the surroundings of his spawn point of choice, nobody likes to: die, wait 15 seconds, spawn, die, wait another 15 seconds Active Scanners I like the changes they are making, I'm guilty of 360-scan-spamming and it was ridiculous. Active Scanner Skills: 1) 5% cooldown time reduction on active scanners per level (with this the Creodron Proximity would be "spammable") 2) 20% to active scanner scan angle per level (so that most scanners will have a 120-¦ scan angle) ...I'm still thinking about Nanohives and Remote Explosives Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 32	Posted - 2014.01.26 15:05:00 - [240] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Feedback requests from CCP: New Equipment Stats. Nerf to all equipment. - Cooldown times on scanners increased. Scanner functionality has been improved to do GÇ£snapshotGÇ¥ scans in order to stop 360 degree spins. - Range on repair tools reduced. and the core focused repair rate is reduced to original 125 hp/s - Drop uplink spawn times increased. - Nanohive nanite supply reduced. Dropsuit Stats and Skills. New Sentinel (heavy), Commando, and Scout bonuses. Lots of debates going on about slot and hp amounts and scout bonuses - scouts do get better generally but the amarr bonus is crap and still coming up with ideas on what to do. Weapon Stats and Ranges New pistols look OP - some debate about it, but we won't know how much of a game killer they are until they are deployed in battle - much like the RR and CR were a big surprise and are now THE dominant weapons on the field right now. On a side note Possible suit bonuses that include the medium frames of assault and logi Currently the logi and assault bonuses are a mistake. The logi has a good class bonus but the racials leave much to be desired when they could be instead incorporated into a skill tree. And the assault bonuses decrease TTK with the ROF increase and now apparently have the old logi bonuses... Currently they are the subject of much debate. Guess i should check Feedback forum more. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.

Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 32	Posted - 2014.01.26 15:18:00 - [241] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them. Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me. Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills. Nanite Injectors I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor. I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill. I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit). NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP. ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP. On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy. SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG. For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level Repair Tools Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ). Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool. This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active. PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot) ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar) Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you) Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level Drop Uplinks Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants. HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks. COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player. Since Drop Uplinks will become a vital piece of equipment I thought about 2 possible skills: 1) -5% to Drop Uplink Scan Profile per level this would make them harder to detect for the enemy team 2) +5% to Drop Uplink Scan Radius and Scan Precision per level this would give a player an idea about the surroundings of his spawn point of choice, nobody likes to: die, wait 15 seconds, spawn, die, wait another 15 seconds Active Scanners I like the changes they are making, I'm guilty of 360-scan-spamming and it was ridiculous. Active Scanner Skills: 1) 5% cooldown time reduction on active scanners per level (with this the Creodron Proximity would be "spammable") 2) 20% to active scanner scan angle per level (so that most scanners will have a 120-¦ scan angle) ...I'm still thinking about Nanohives and Remote Explosives The thing about the injectors and repair tools is that they use nanites (basically microscopic machines: nanomachines) to funtcion. Unlike armor, the nanites wouldn't be able to interact with shields since it is more or less energy. Now what you're thinking of isn't a Repair tool but rather a "Charge" tool. How that would work though is beyond me as the most I can think of is plugging a battery into the suit to charge it. Now for the personal repair you are correct in that people would abuse it. I played MAG and most everyone carried the Med Tool simply to heal themselves while ignoring the comrades who are calling out for first aid. Separate skills for equipment might be difficult since a few of the equipment is placed instead of carried. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 209	Posted - 2014.01.26 16:34:00 - [242] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: The thing about the injectors and repair tools is that they use nanites (basically microscopic machines: nanomachines) to funtcion. Unlike armor, the nanites wouldn't be able to interact with shields since it is more or less energy. Now what you're thinking of isn't a Repair tool but rather a "Charge" tool. Well being machines the nanites should have some source of energy to be able to operate. Since, I guess, they integrate themeselves with the damaged armor to repair it to some degree wouldn't it make sense if after the operation they could discharge their residual energy in the shield generator of the suit? Soulskulptor wrote: Now for the personal repair you are correct in that people would abuse it. I played MAG and most everyone carried the Med Tool simply to heal themselves while ignoring the comrades who are calling out for first aid. That's why I lean towards the semi-active idea, if you repair allies (and only while you are repairing) you get the bonus, so you can't climb on a roof and start picking off people and if you get shot stand back a couple of seconds and self-repair. And with the repair tool is hard since rate and range are influenced by the Minnlogi, I also thought about a sort of AoE heal (if I remember correctly Planetside 2 does something similar) but we have Triage Hives for that. Soulskulptor wrote: Separate skills for equipment might be difficult since a few of the equipment is placed instead of carried. Yeah, placed items are what I find difficult to come up with ideas that could work, (in particular with Nanohives all the ideas I get are broken by the "I'm-gonna-stack-5-Nanohives-at-my-feet" tactic) I have to say I like the idea I got for the Uplinks though, I think it is possible to make a lot with the profile sistem: with these skills uplinks could be used as Proximity Sensors or could become a pain for the enemy team if hidden correctly. This is what I was talking about, I need feedback both from a lore perspective and a game balance perspective. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 33	Posted - 2014.01.26 19:53:00 - [243] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Well being machines the nanites should have some source of energy to be able to operate. Since, I guess, they integrate themeselves with the damaged armor to repair it to some degree wouldn't it make sense if after the operation they could discharge their residual energy in the shield generator of the suit? True, though given their size it's highly doubtful it'd be much. Cavecav wrote: That's why I lean towards the semi-active idea, if you repair allies (and only while you are repairing) you get the bonus, so you can't climb on a roof and start picking off people and if you get shot stand back a couple of seconds and self-repair. And with the repair tool is hard since rate and range are influenced by the Minnlogi, I also thought about a sort of AoE heal (if I remember correctly Planetside 2 does something similar) but we have Triage Hives for that. Dunno about Planetside, never played it. but Brink had a special type of grenade exclusive to the Medic class. The Lazarus Grenade could be thrown into a group of downed allies to resuscitate them. Cavecav wrote: Yeah, placed items are what I find difficult to come up with ideas that could work, (in particular with Nanohives all the ideas I get are broken by the "I'm-gonna-stack-5-Nanohives-at-my-feet" tactic) I have to say I like the idea I got for the Uplinks though, I think it is possible to make a lot with the profile sistem: with these skills uplinks could be used as Proximity Sensors or could become a pain for the enemy team if hidden correctly. Not sure what you mean by "Proximity Sensors". Do Uplinks show when an enemy is near it? Though I think they should rename the Current Proxy mines to AV mines and add REAL Proxy mines. Place them and smile when it explodes due to an enemy stepping near it. cavecav wrote: This is what I was talking about, I need feedback both from a lore perspective and a game balance perspective. Don't know much about EvE lore, much of my info on Reptools and injectors are from the description ingame. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1705	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:31:00 - [244] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them. Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me. Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills. Nanite Injectors I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor. I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill. I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit). NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP. ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP. On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy. SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG. For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level Repair Tools Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ). Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool. This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active. PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot) ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar) Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you) Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level Drop Uplinks Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants. HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks. COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player. Gotta be honest, I think a lot of the suggestions you are making sound a bit OP, especially the self-reps and needles. Self reps are not hard to figure out why, you've already mentioned it. A low rate of self rep (as a % of the reps you give) is probably fine. Injectors you've added entirely too much functionality to without drawbacks to compensate. Instead of variants these are just supercharged versions of what we already have. - Vehicles have recently taught us a hard lesson in how damage resistance can be OP. A proto or LP rep tool giving 10s of 50% resistance to damage on an Amarr or gallente sentinel which will already have it's own inherent damage resistance could lead to some interesting but likely OP tactics like a logi TKing his own heavy and then making him into his own personal killdozer reanimated zombie with a LP armor injector and core focused rep tool. I know that sounds awesome but also OP. - a more balanced injector would be a shield variant which supercharges shield recharge at a cost of a significant amount of armor, maybe 10-20%, along the lines of what you suggest, but without any instant shield replenishment. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 692	Posted - 2014.01.26 20:51:00 - [245] - Quote Red, where did you get this piece of info: "new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits". This is the second time I heard this now but haven't seen anything of. That would definitely screw up ammo supply, I rather have a active system like the rep tool than the passive drop equipment (which turns into spam) anyway.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 529	Posted - 2014.01.27 05:49:00 - [246] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them. Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me. Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills. Nanite Injectors I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor. I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill. I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit). NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP. ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP. On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy. SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG. For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level Repair Tools Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ). Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool. This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active. PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot) ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar) Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you) Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level Drop Uplinks Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants. HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks. COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player. Since Drop Uplinks will become a vital piece of equipment I thought about 2 possible skills: 1) -5% to Drop Uplink Scan Profile per level this would make them harder to detect for the enemy team 2) +5% to Drop Uplink Scan Radius and Scan Precision per level this would give a player an idea about the surroundings of his spawn point of choice, nobody likes to: die, wait 15 seconds, spawn, die, wait another 15 seconds Active Scanners I like the changes they are making, I'm guilty of 360-scan-spamming and it was ridiculous. Active Scanner Skills: 1) 5% cooldown time reduction on active scanners per level (with this the Creodron Proximity would be "spammable") 2) 20% to active scanner scan angle per level (so that most scanners will have a 120-¦ scan angle) ...I'm still thinking about Nanohives and Remote Explosives At one point in time CCP could not give bonuses to equipment - the coding was just not working - so Either they have fixed that and can now give bonuses to equipment for a skill tree like setup or their suggestions were difficult to create. Regardless they have also talked about ideas similar to yours in the past, like injectors that give a boost of armor or armor regen for a time. But the problems is still the coding for such actions. They would like to introduce active modules for infantry as well - this cloacking device is very close to that I think. I believe that you will see your ideas and theirs show up one day, but that may be soon or years. - more likely longer than you would think. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 529	Posted - 2014.01.27 06:03:00 - [247] - Quote RKKR wrote: Red, where did you get this piece of info: "new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits". This is the second time I heard this now but haven't seen anything of. That would definitely screw up ammo supply, I rather have a active system like the rep tool than the passive drop equipment (which turns into spam) anyway. A while ago when it was figured out that dropped equipment spam caused lag CCP was exploring ideas for curing spam issues. This was one of the ideas to cure spam and to stop mercs from constantly changing suits at the supply depots in order to regain HP and also throw down more equipment. Though the source of the lag (all the sounds of each piece of equipment spam) was eventually found this threat has never been removed from the table of CCP or CPM as to a solution to equipment spam. It is one scary idea to force a merc to run with his nano suit or uplink suit the whole of the game just to make sure people can still use those pieces of dropped equipment. In relation to the equipment spam is also part of the reason for the equipment nerf - at least that is what many mercs have thought - if equipment has a shorter lifespan like fewer clone spawns and fewer nanite clusters then they will be used up faster and help control equipment spam. It is only a theory that this is CCP's intention as they do not often share their reasons for this kind action before it is in place. Remember back to the flaylock nerf they published a reason afterwards about the number of explosive deaths was more than they wanted. The ultimate goal - well on of them anyway - of a Higher TTK may have some relation to the changes, but then again the reasons have not been shared. Please, go to the previously posted links and read and post your opinions. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 215	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:09:00 - [248] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Gotta be honest, I think a lot of the suggestions you are making sound a bit OP, especially the self-reps and needles. Self reps are not hard to figure out why, you've already mentioned it. A low rate of self rep (as a % of the reps you give) is probably fine. Injectors you've added entirely too much functionality to without drawbacks to compensate. Instead of variants these are just supercharged versions of what we already have. - Vehicles have recently taught us a hard lesson in how damage resistance can be OP. A proto or LP needle giving 10s of 50% resistance to damage on an Amarr or gallente sentinel which will already have it's own inherent damage resistance could lead to some interesting tactics like a logi TKing his own heavy and then making him into his own personal reanimated zombie killdozer with a LP armor injector and core focused rep tool. I know, that sounds seriously awesome but it's also most likely OP. - a more balanced injector would be a shield variant which supercharges shield recharge at a cost of a significant amount of armor, maybe 10-20%, along the lines of what you suggest, but without any instant shield replenishment. As for uplinks, I really like where you are going with the covert ops one. Less excited about the hardened one, I don't know that I care enough that uplinks will have less SP in 1.8 to bother with those. Also, while I like the idea of the scan profile getting lower, I think that's better as a variant than a skill bonus, again, you're adding additional benefits to an existing piece of equipment without a drawback. For my money I'd like to see the skill bonuses either be applied to basic properties so that, say, on a Minnie logi suit if you have uplinks to 5 then your uplinks become nearly as good as they are now without having to use an Amarr suit, same with rep tools on an Amarr suit and not Minnie, etc, etc. That might be viewed unfavorably by CCP, though, perhaps it could be an anti-spam measure, something I proposed a while ago, where the number of equipments you could have out at once was determined by the skill level. You make some really good points. Do you think that Armor Injectors should have a lower bonus while restoring less armor? Something like: 30% armor on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% for PRO and 60% for LP with 10% resist on STD, 20% on ADV and 30% on PRO and LP or is this still too much? Or should they be entirely removed? As for Shield Injectors I added the instant-boost because of the depleted timer, we could get rid of it if, for the buff duration, the shield delay was always 0. For armor percentages were you suggesting 10-20% less of what I suggested or 10-20% armor restored upon revive? I knew the self-reps would have been difficult to balance but I think that a fixed value (let's say 10-15 hp/sec) is more fair than a % based one, I would get more self-reps while behind a heavy with the Core Focused making us even harder to kill. I think I should delete the Active and Passive explanation for the self reps, I was trying to point out why those would be unbalanced but I think people don't understand. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 215	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:15:00 - [249] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: Cavecav wrote: Yeah, placed items are what I find difficult to come up with ideas that could work, (in particular with Nanohives all the ideas I get are broken by the "I'm-gonna-stack-5-Nanohives-at-my-feet" tactic) I have to say I like the idea I got for the Uplinks though, I think it is possible to make a lot with the profile sistem: with these skills uplinks could be used as Proximity Sensors or could become a pain for the enemy team if hidden correctly. Not sure what you mean by "Proximity Sensors". Do Uplinks show when an enemy is near it? Though I think they should rename the Current Proxy mines to AV mines and add REAL Proxy mines. Place them and smile when it explodes due to an enemy stepping near it. One of the Uplink skill I proposed gives them scan radius and precision making them able to scan around them and ping enemies on the TacNet so that while you are deciding where to spawn you can see if there are enemies camping the uplink in close proximity. I think that Anti-Infantry Mines could be bad, now if you rig a null cannon with RE you must pay attention to detonate them if it starts blinking, AI Mines could be a source of random +50 Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Alex Kaidou Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:31:00 - [250] - Quote Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not

Alex Kaidou Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2014.01.27 09:32:00 - [251] - Quote Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 530	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:27:00 - [252] - Quote Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not I don't understand your argument here. Are your referring to a post from long ago? About the idea of the logibro? With the guide? You can understand my confusion when our most recent posts have been about upcoming changes to the equipment, suits, bonuses, and alternate ideas. So, what are you talking about? It sounds like you're are doing what a logibro is supposed to do, so good job. The only reason there is a term 'logibro' is because of the need for differentiation between support characters who use the logi suits (logibros) and characters who use the logi suit for only building slayer fits - logissaults, killer bees, whatever. I've pointed out numerous times in the guide the importance of your primary weapon and pointed to the fact that this is an FPS, or first person shooter. I've addressed the need to reinforce your team and know when to shoot and when to use your equipment... KDR is as relevant as a player wants it to be. Some may not care and to others it may be of great importance - neither you or I can define the value it has for another player. It is however important to the overall clone count for games, so being aware and conscientious about the death of each clone is smart. Additionally because of equipment a logistics build is very expensive; usually that make a player understand the need for caution and observation so as not to lose that expensive equipment. Lastly, I would imagine that most of us want to go positive in our games whether we do or not - I've not said that KDR is unimportant.... so who exactly are you arguing with? The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 215	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:58:00 - [253] - Quote Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1732	Posted - 2014.01.27 12:12:00 - [254] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1732	Posted - 2014.01.27 12:30:00 - [255] - Quote CaveCav wrote: You make some really good points. Do you think that Armor Injectors should have a lower bonus while restoring less armor? Something like: 30% armor on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% for PRO and 60% for LP with 10% resist on STD, 20% on ADV and 30% on PRO and LP or is this still too much? Or should they be entirely removed? As for Shield Injectors I added the instant-boost because of the depleted timer, we could get rid of it if, for the buff duration, the shield delay was always 0. For armor percentages were you suggesting 10-20% less of what I suggested or 10-20% armor restored upon revive? I knew the self-reps would have been difficult to balance but I think that a fixed value (let's say 10-15 hp/sec) is more fair than a % based one, I would get more self-reps while behind a heavy with the Core Focused making us even harder to kill. I think I should delete the Active and Passive explanation for the self reps, I was trying to point out why those would be unbalanced but I think people don't understand. I think the biggest issue I had was with the resistances in general. A short period of time makes sense so that people are les likely to get instakilled after a revive but I think that the duration should be constant, not go up with tiers, as 10s is a pretty long time. For the % I was suggesting that if you are going to add a variant with something like damage resistance or shield recharge it should come at the cost of 10-20% less armor replenished compared to the "regular" injector at the same tier. Speaking of which, the shield one should probably be just a level 4 adv variant, and not a full fledged alternative at all tiers. a shield instant boost would be fine if there was no damage resistance or vice versa, it's both together that's potentially OP. Oh, and I like the idea of self reps but I agree that you went into too many different scenarios and it was hard to follow. The best way to limit the potential forms use IMO is to make it a feedback type of thing where you get back a small % of the actual healing you give, meaning that simply having the tool locked onto someone won't give you any reps, you have to be actively repairing them (not just have them on a leash). "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 217	Posted - 2014.01.27 14:01:00 - [256] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Speaking of which, the shield one should probably be just a level 4 adv variant, and not a full fledged alternative at all tiers. a shield instant boost would be fine if there was no damage resistance or vice versa, it's both together that's potentially OP. I like the idea of it being only a variant, by the way there is no added resistance on the Shield Needle, it boosts the shield recharge rate by a %, so if your Recharge Rate is 20 hp/sec and you receive a 50% boost, for 10 seconds you recharge at 30 hp/sec. John Demonsbane wrote: Oh, and I like the idea of self reps but I agree that you went into too many different scenarios and it was hard to follow. Yeah I think I'm gonna cut that bit leaving only the feedback idea John Demonsbane wrote: The best way to limit the potential forms use IMO is to make it a feedback type of thing where you get back a small % of the actual healing you give, meaning that simply having the tool locked onto someone won't give you any reps, you have to be actively repairing them (not just have them on a leash). That's what I meant by semi-active! I couldn't think of "feedback" that's the perfect description and also being based on amounts of armor that you repair there is no difference between a STD and a Core Focused repair tool if not the speed of the repairs! Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 410	Posted - 2014.01.27 16:14:00 - [257] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CaveCav wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.) Same. My kdr is not impressive and I don't care. I die a fair bit and its to help the team, but I use best judgment. I understand there are certain games and situations where my number of deaths are actually starting to affect the clone count negatively and start altering my game play. Otherwise, if its absolutely hopeless, I bring out the cheap silly suits and just try stuff. This game should be about fun and not stats. I'm having the time of my life and rolling in isk. I wouldn't trade that experience for a better kdr. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 531	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:38:00 - [258] - Quote I had previously commented on a statement that KDR is important by one of our new posters, but he had also posted twice so I had it reported and now apparently my post was removed with his double post... go figure. So, I'll start again. Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not KDR is only important as any given merc feels it is. You feel it is of great importance and so it is. Others don't think the same way. However not being concerned with KDR and playing foolishly are two different things. Knowing when to shoot and when to use your equipment is the sign of a good logi. It sounds like you're doing a good job at being a logi as keeping your deaths in mind helps you to be cautious in your gameplay. I advocate planning for your primary weapon often in the guide as this is an FPS game, it has support roles but it is still and FPS. Logi suits and all the equipment are expensive, just running around dying doesn't help anyone. But if the death comes because you were helping another merc, there is no shame in that for a logibro. For that reason also there was a need to differentiate between mercs that were support oriented 'logibro' and those that just used the logi suit for slayer fits 'logissaults'. Everyone eventually finds their niche in a scale between pure support to pure attack and their actions and decisions can quantify their position. Some logibros are nearly pacifists, some can barely be called a logibro - i myself am often caught in the middle deciding whether to solo a point or stay with the team; which means I often find myself on the slayer side more than I would like. But, ultimately you get to decide on how you play. I hope that the code will help you in your efforts. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
Alex Kaidou Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2014.01.30 12:49:00 - [259] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CaveCav wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.) dude majority of the time my freinds have 45 kills to 3 deaths i have like 4 to 9 kill with like 3k wp . and about 4 deaths beuase noone is repairing me sadly but i see what you saying my point is their is no true logi bro in this game we all have our own perspectives and that just defines who we are and it makes the game alot more fun
Slimjimbiscuits PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 4	Posted - 2014.01.30 15:52:00 - [260] - Quote Alex Kaidou wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CaveCav wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.) dude majority of the time my freinds have 45 kills to 3 deaths i have like 4 to 9 kill with like 3k wp . and about 4 deaths beuase noone is repairing me sadly but i see what you saying my point is their is no true logi bro in this game we all have our own perspectives and that just defines who we are and it makes the game alot more fun No true LogiBro?! Then why are there several page-long posts, each post succeding the previous, that have come together with dedication by its authors? Through their selfless actions they've spent much of their free time showing other players (whose favorite playstyle might be described best as "healing, supporting, and putting teammates before themselves") a methodology to accomplish just that. Results of their contributions has accumulated into the how-to guide you see before you.

Asterion Cretos DUST University Ivy League 75	Posted - 2014.01.31 02:30:00 - [261] - Quote Spent a few more points on Shield Upgrades than I should have, but thanks for putting this up!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1778	Posted - 2014.01.31 02:53:00 - [262] - Quote lee corwood wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CaveCav wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.) Same. My kdr is not impressive and I don't care. I die a fair bit and its to help the team, but I use best judgment. I understand there are certain games and situations where my number of deaths are actually starting to affect the clone count negatively and start altering my game play. Otherwise, if its absolutely hopeless, I bring out the cheap silly suits and just try stuff. This game should be about fun and not stats. I'm having the time of my life and rolling in isk. I wouldn't trade that experience for a better kdr. Thank you! 1000% the right attitude. There is a point at which playing recklessly hurts the team, and that's where the smart person changes their play style. The true metric of a "good" player is not their overall KDR or WP/D but what they are when it really matters. (Or in my case, when they are not drunk and can see straight, lol... Aim for the one in the middle!) FUN>>everything else "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
Crash Gaden Immortal Guides 29	Posted - 2014.01.31 18:34:00 - [263] - Quote Just thought I would post a note about reping Speed Heavies (Sports Turtles). How a Speed Heavy operates: Speed Heavies Sprint to cover. But they like to go around corners at a walk. This is because when they come out of a sprint it takes a significant fraction of a second to bring the HMG to bare. Therefore when they leave cover to enter combat they will walk with their weapon at the ready. What this means for the Logi-Bro: - Logi should not try to Rep a Speed Heavy when crossing open ground. Sprint for cover along with the Heavy. You should have a moment to get the repper on the Heavy before the Heavy Engages. - If the Heavy took damage while crossing open ground they will most likely remain behind cover until they feel they have sufficient shields/armour to proceed. This would be a good time to rep them. - Make sure to leave enough room for the Heavy to duck back into cover. A Speed Heavy uses cover extensively. When they get low they duck back to cover until they get repaired enough to re-engage. With Reps they can re-engage sooner. I have had good Logi-Bro yell at me for not equipping Plate. I have had many Logi-Bro complain about not being able to keep up with me. It was getting to the point where I would prey for someone to put down Repping Hives so that I would not have to deal with Logi-BroGÇÖs. If there were other Heavies in the Squad I would tell the Logi-BroGÇÖs to follow the other heavy, and only worry about me if I asked for assistance. But this morning I was working with a Logi-Bro who was willing to adapt to my style of play, and we had great success! I will be continuing to run an Amarr Sentinel in a Speed fit configuration in 1.8. In 1.8 the Amarr will have more base armor than they do now, so I may need reps more than I do now. So I would like some of the Logi-Bro community to know how to work with a Speed fit Heavy.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1783	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:50:00 - [264] - Quote Personally I try to pull back on the rep line like it's a leash. Never seems to work for some reason... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
Ninja Troll 19	Posted - 2014.01.31 20:30:00 - [265] - Quote I've gotten used to having only 2 equip slots on the basic Amarr logi. If there's a respec for dropsuits, I'll probably change the Amarr logi to Gal scout. I think the Gal scout will make a great Medic / Rep suit. Stealth, Armor, Armor repair, speed, etc. My main is an advanced Min scout, so it'll be nice to have the extra scout bonus. This character will probably become a Cal scout. [REQ] Infantry Only Mode or Option- No Vehicles
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1917	Posted - 2014.02.08 16:58:00 - [266] - Quote Pushing to the top for new eyes. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 450	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:20:00 - [267] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Personally I try to pull back on the rep line like it's a leash. Never seems to work for some reason... You're not the only one. As soon as I pick someone up, I start walking back towards cover to finish up the healing. Instinctively in my head, I'm doing the 'come here, boy. over here. gooooood boy....no. No. NONONONO, come back here-HEY!' Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
ReVe-ZePHoS Paladen Night's 5	Posted - 2014.02.12 22:10:00 - [268] - Quote Honestly, I love you guys' guide and I appreciate all the hard work. I've been a dedicated vehicle expert until uprising, but decided to switch to a logibro infantry base and it was a fairly difficult play style shift. While I enjoy assisting my team I also pride myself on my KDR, and still dabble in vehicles occasionally. I only recently learned of this post, so I had built my suit unaided and am now the training and fitting officer for my corporation. All of my new recruits are immediately sent to me and depending on their current play style I build them up and train them to maximize their strengths and neutralize their weaknesses, and thanks to your hard work I can now show my recruits a detailed training map. Thank you. Sincerely, ReVe-ZePHoS Executive Officer of Paladen Night's WHEN DUST HITS THE FAN I KEEP PUSHING
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 556	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:40:00 - [269] - Quote While we are still awaiting news on the possible logi bonuses from what I've been reading on the forums it seems like they will be the bonuses of the future, though I thought I saw a CCP or CPM post saying that the medium dropsuit bonuses will not be touched for 1.8. Regardless, as the dev blogs come out and more is known I will be adjusting the guide to match the new bonuses and include the reasons behind such choices. Secondly there has been a post from a CCP dev stating that all respec conversations happen under a specific thread. I urge you all to visit and post your thoughts on the subject. I personally vote for a complete refund of dropsuits, core, and weaponry as many of the choices we have made were based upon the current roles and suits we use. With so many new additions and bonus changes I support a refund as the only viable alternative. See the thread here: Official Respec/Refund Thread The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 496	Posted - 2014.02.18 03:13:00 - [270] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: While we are still awaiting news on the possible logi bonuses from what I've been reading on the forums it seems like they will be the bonuses of the future, though I thought I saw a CCP or CPM post saying that the medium dropsuit bonuses will not be touched for 1.8. Regardless, as the dev blogs come out and more is known I will be adjusting the guide to match the new bonuses and include the reasons behind such choices. Secondly there has been a post from a CCP dev stating that all respec conversations happen under a specific thread. I urge you all to visit and post your thoughts on the subject. I personally vote for a complete refund of dropsuits, core, and weaponry as many of the choices we have made were based upon the current roles and suits we use. With so many new additions and bonus changes I support a refund as the only viable alternative. See the thread here: Official Respec/Refund Thread From what I've read, bonuses are definitely changing, but slots are not for medium frames. Which probably means slots will end up changing for light and heavy suits, but all medium frames are remaining untouched in slots. CCP Saberwing wrote: hoo! (pt 2 of 2) EDIT: Now, with something useful: Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. CCP Logibro wrote: Just to add, the Medium Frames are all getting some base stat adjustments, but no changes to slots (though that's not ruled out for post 1.8) All of these are copied from the following post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370 Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick

Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 50	Posted - 2014.02.19 20:30:00 - [271] - Quote lee corwood wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: hoo! (pt 2 of 2) EDIT: Now, with something useful: Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. CCP Logibro wrote: Just to add, the Medium Frames are all getting some base stat adjustments, but no changes to slots (though that's not ruled out for post 1.8) All of these are copied from the following post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370 Equipment info is pulled from this post: http://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=137525 A couple items of note for 1.8 (Based on current posts) Injectors don't change. ISK costs appear to remain constant. Equipment CPU/PG appears to be the same across the board. CPU/PG changes are unknown for medium class suits. (Side thought: Dropping the overall CPU/PG of the Logi suits might make them less valuable for Logi-Assault types.) Drop-Uplinks: Baseline Drop-Uplink times are increasing by ~33% and HP is dropping by ~4x Proto-Amarr Logi get 10 bonus spawns per uplink, and times match original uplinks. No Militia-Fit Drop-Uplink is listed. I didn't see any mention or reference of it in the postings. The prototype Drop uplinks have mostly changed names and meta levels. "Viziam" replaces "Imperial" Rep-Tools: Baseline amount repaired looks to be the same as current. Baseline Rep-tool distances are decreasing by ~33% Proto-MinLogi get all the distance back, and a bonus on repping with all but the core focused repair tool. The Core Focused Repair Tool repair rate drops to 125 from 175 on dropsuits. ~156 for Proto-minlogi Rep Tools now have an 'Installation Repair Rate' listed (~2x the vehicle for most tools) The Republic Boundless Repair Tool isn't listed. Nanohives: Repair/Resupply rates appear identical. All standard hives appear to have the same number of nanites as they did originally. All Advanced and proto hives have ~33% fewer nanites. Proto-CalLogi get original amounts of Nanites for Standard/Proto and a bonus for Standard. Scanners Increase in time between scans. (Could be up to 100% longer, I don't have good numbers) Proto-Gal Logi Scan down-time ranges between -5 and 18 seconds depending on scanner (Everyone else is 0-22) "Scanner functionality has been improved to do GÇ£snapshotGÇ¥ scans in order to stop 360 degree spins." - This may be a real kick in the teeth for scanner users depending on implementation. Skilling into multiple suit types to get the best 'bang for your buck' may not be far off. (e.g. Have an Amarr drop uplink suit and a Minmatar rep suit, if you need to scan pull out your Gallente scan suit.) Caldari sortof seem to get the short end of the deal. Removal of the 'repair module' equivalent means that at proto level all logis will be down the equivalent of 1 Complex repair module worth of low slots. (Less armor etc.)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2051	Posted - 2014.02.20 00:30:00 - [272] - Quote I've heard (as with all this stuff, anecdotally) that medium frames will not have a change in slots OR CPU/PG, which is odd considering I too thought they wanted to eliminate killer bees. I guess for once CCP is doing it by buffing other suits and not nerfing the ones that work (hard at least); in that light one could almost say we are getting a pretty fair shake in 1.8 if all we lose is the inherent rep in exchange for a pretty sweet equipment bonus. But, like the main man redbleach said, we gotta wait for the dev blogs before we know for sure. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 556	Posted - 2014.02.20 02:58:00 - [273] - Quote My post about the possible bonuses of the future was worded in a way that left the interpretation pretty loose. What I meant was that the proposed logi bonuses (the ones you guys have reposted :)) are most likely slated to become a reality as we have had no further input from the blue tags. Though I believe that our opinions were heard i don't know that it changed much - but a small part of me is excited in believing that they will change the racial bonuses and move them to an actual equipment tree (I also realize that this is my desire and not shared by the whole of the community). I don't know that I support your point about it being a fair shake John Demonsbane, The new class bonus is spot on - i disagree with the racials - but with an equipment nerf as well I feel as if the class is loosing more ground than it is gaining. Perhaps that is just the pessimist in me and with all the other adjustments things will actually turn out all right. Like we have both said: we just need some more information. Time will tell. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 512	Posted - 2014.02.20 15:34:00 - [274] - Quote I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board. While might help soothe the fact that every piece of equipment I have has been reduced to far below what it provided before except the rep tool, which is less range but more hp which honestly I'm all for. Range didn't help me anyways. Reduced damage would make it so my help was worth a damn on the field (can't help a team that completely dead because my eq isn't worthy), but also losing a plate is going to hurt I'll wait to see what's to come but honestly, looking at that nanohive reduction, I feel more EQ spam coming on stronger than ever. Laying some down next to an MD or forger and it would disappear as fast as I could give it to them. Reduced amounts I think will cause even more eq spam to provide what it did before for the team. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 52	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:24:00 - [275] - Quote lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 516	Posted - 2014.02.21 01:39:00 - [276] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. Or kill us off entirely... Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 563	Posted - 2014.02.22 21:03:00 - [277] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities. And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate? The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2108	Posted - 2014.02.22 21:33:00 - [278] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities. And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate? I think he's talking about dropping a plate in favor of a repair module. As for the rest, that's what so maddening about this whole thing. Devs keep dropping into topics and leaving one little nugget of information but little else! We really just don't know what's going to happen in the big picture. I'm beginning to think that they really are doing it on purpose to mess with us... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 564	Posted - 2014.02.22 21:42:00 - [279] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities. And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate? I think he's talking about dropping a plate in favor of a repair module. As for the rest, that's what so maddening about this whole thing. Devs keep dropping into topics and leaving one little nugget of information but little else! We really just don't know what's going to happen in the big picture. I'm beginning to think that they really are doing it on purpose to mess with us... Ah, Thank you for the insight. My mind hadn't quite made it there. And you are completely right - Nothing is confirmed until it is out - I guess I'm feeling pretty pessimistic, and the attitude on the forums is generally one of ennui, and even the devs are stressed... I just see it going in this big circle of negative reinforcement. I should do my part to change that. Thanks for keeping a neutral perspective John. I should emulate the same behavior. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
501st Headstrong The Unit 514 114	Posted - 2014.02.22 23:57:00 - [280] - Quote This thread is amazing. Thanks to everyone here for educating me. :) I am the reason you rage-quit =D

lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 522	Posted - 2014.02.23 00:09:00 - [281] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities. And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate? I think he's talking about dropping a plate in favor of a repair module. As for the rest, that's what so maddening about this whole thing. Devs keep dropping into topics and leaving one little nugget of information but little else! We really just don't know what's going to happen in the big picture. I'm beginning to think that they really are doing it on purpose to mess with us... Ah, Thank you for the insight. My mind hadn't quite made it there. And you are completely right - Nothing is confirmed until it is out - I guess I'm feeling pretty pessimistic, and the attitude on the forums is generally one of ennui, and even the devs are stressed... I just see it going in this big circle of negative reinforcement. I should do my part to change that. Thanks for keeping a neutral perspective John. I should emulate the same behavior. Yes, I was talking about having to lose a plate for a repair module. Sorry for the vagueness. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 61	Posted - 2014.02.23 22:59:00 - [282] - Quote lee corwood wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think he's talking about dropping a plate in favor of a repair module. As for the rest, that's what so maddening about this whole thing. Devs keep dropping into topics and leaving one little nugget of information but little else! We really just don't know what's going to happen in the big picture. I'm beginning to think that they really are doing it on purpose to mess with us... Ah, Thank you for the insight. My mind hadn't quite made it there. And you are completely right - Nothing is confirmed until it is out - I guess I'm feeling pretty pessimistic, and the attitude on the forums is generally one of ennui, and even the devs are stressed... I just see it going in this big circle of negative reinforcement. I should do my part to change that. Thanks for keeping a neutral perspective John. I should emulate the same behavior. Yes, I was talking about having to lose a plate for a repair module. Sorry for the vagueness. So with current 1.8 all of the logi will loose one low slot for equipment to replace the Complex Repair Module equivalent that suits have when you're trained to proto level. (Unless you want to run without a repair module.) We get our equipment nerfed and have to spec into the suit to get the equipment back to current baseline, and then you get a side benefit. It still feels like I'll need to spec into at least Amarr/gal/min suits to stay where I am right now on the equipment front. Yeah, that's not going to be cheap. And if you want to be repping you'll be most efficient as minmatar. I can see it now: "Heavy squad rf1 logi, must be running Minmatar Proto suits" facepalm
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 522	Posted - 2014.02.24 14:11:00 - [283] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: So with current 1.8 all of the logi will loose one low slot for equipment to replace the Complex Repair Module equivalent that suits have when you're trained to proto level. (Unless you want to run without a repair module.) We get our equipment nerfed and have to spec into the suit to get the equipment back to current baseline, and then you get a side benefit. It still feels like I'll need to spec into at least Amarr/gal/min suits to stay where I am right now on the equipment front. Yeah, that's not going to be cheap. And if you want to be repping you'll be most efficient as minmatar. I can see it now: "Heavy squad rf1 logi, must be running Minmatar Proto suits" facepalm I don't see any of this going well. I see most of these changes actually encouraging MORE eq spam. According to the notes, everything was already reduced from its previous ability with one race specifically getting a slight bonus above the others. That means, in my opinion, the races that have reductions will end up spamming more hives and more droplinks than before just to equate to what the better version available is on the battlefield. I don't see myself or very many other players skilling into every single logi for that benefit. Unless for whatever reason, my lvl 5 uplinks skill is universal, meaning I could simply skill into lvl 1 Amarr logi and slap an uplink on it. What a pain in the ass that would be... Also, if I don't get an increase to dropsuit fittings, its just not going to be possible. Must be proto min, ha. Sorry guys, my 200k suit isn't coming out to play in your pub matches. Good luck with that. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 67	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:55:00 - [284] - Quote Well ... the two suits that look to be 'required' post 1.8 appear to be Minmatar Logi and Amarr Logi. Minmatar due to the rep bonuses. Amarr for Uplink bonuses. If you do lots of scanning Gallente will be interesting, but we will have to see what the changes to Scanning mean. (i.e. the new 'Snapshot' functionality) Caldari isn't make or break for me. The needle will remain the same, we're just looking at fewer nanites for the resupply. And if you're pure logibro, Minmatar will be the gold standard for heavy support.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 258	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:25:00 - [285] - Quote I don't know about you guys but I can't see myself using the Gallente logistics in 1.8...I'll be keeping my Minmatar for sure and I'll be picking up either the Amarr or the Caldari logistics as a second suit, but the Gallente... Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 67	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:37:00 - [286] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I don't know about you guys but I can't see myself using the Gallente logistics in 1.8...I'll be keeping my Minmatar for sure and I'll be picking up either the Amarr or the Caldari logistics as a second suit, but the Gallente... The ability to 'scan the unscanable' will make Gallente Logi an interesting player on the field. But we will have to see how scanners will change with the new 'Snapshot' functionality which will supposedly 'stop' the 360 degree ballerina-logibro. The gallente suit is solid. 5 low slots at the cost of movement at proto level (though IMO it doesn't really hit primetime until then) and scanner bonuses. Amarr suit drop uplink is potentially huge with the spawn speed slowdown Substantial deployment time drop (50%) and additional spawns (up to 10 more per uplink) Minmatar is crazy good for repping 25% bonus to repping amount is quite powerful and gives the same repair distances as current tools. Caldari is ... okay I suppose. I don't use as many hives as some due to running around with a rep tool ... and Injectors don't change. I may spec into Scout suits for the hacking bonus and 2 equipment slots. Sortof a 'Logi-Lite' to do stealth drop uplinks and objective hacking with maybe a rep tool or injector on the side.
xuuu Die Valkyrja Renegade Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.02.26 15:51:00 - [287] - Quote this turely help me a lot for been a good logibro:)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2154	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:22:00 - [288] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: CaveCav wrote: I don't know about you guys but I can't see myself using the Gallente logistics in 1.8...I'll be keeping my Minmatar for sure and I'll be picking up either the Amarr or the Caldari logistics as a second suit, but the Gallente... The ability to 'scan the unscanable' will make Gallente Logi an interesting player on the field. But we will have to see how scanners will change with the new 'Snapshot' functionality which will supposedly 'stop' the 360 degree ballerina-logibro. The gallente suit is solid. 5 low slots at the cost of movement at proto level (though IMO it doesn't really hit primetime until then) and scanner bonuses. Amarr suit drop uplink is potentially huge with the spawn speed slowdown Substantial deployment time drop (50%) and additional spawns (up to 10 more per uplink) Minmatar is crazy good for repping 25% bonus to repping amount is quite powerful and gives the same repair distances as current tools. Caldari is ... okay I suppose. I don't use as many hives as some due to running around with a rep tool ... and Injectors don't change. I may spec into Scout suits for the hacking bonus and 2 equipment slots. Sortof a 'Logi-Lite' to do stealth drop uplinks and objective hacking with maybe a rep tool or injector on the side. I think people are missing out on some of the potential of the Caldari logi. With the nerf to rep tools and the squishy Minnie suit being the only one who gets it back to its former glory, triage hives will start looking very attractive. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 523	Posted - 2014.02.28 04:46:00 - [289] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: Caldari is ... okay I suppose. I don't use as many hives as some due to running around with a rep tool ... and Injectors don't change. I think people are missing out on some of the potential of the Caldari logi. With the nerf to rep tools and the squishy Minnie suit being the only one who gets it back to its former glory, triage hives will start looking very attractive. This is part of why I feel EQ spam will get worse. Both to create auras of health but also because like Thrydwulf, I don't run with hives very often and lately I feel that has been the wrong approach. I was that twirling ballerina but honestly I've started to run without a scanner. I created an alt and really built up better situational awareness and gun game (tho I still suck ), I'm prepping for the 1.8 snapshot forcing more eyes on approach and with the heavy event, I can't give enough ammo away. That being said, I'm also seeing some high end guns that soak up my ammo faster than I can dish it out. Forgers and MDs are eating it up. 3 reloads and I'm out (ADV) maybe one more for proto if they themselves are not running proto. With the ammo distribution getting lower, I see hundreds of people bring these to the battle given logis can no longer do it alone. And lastly, abuse. If one race gets the benefit and a fix isn't made to EQ spam, what's to stop me, a Min Logi at the core from speccing into a Cal logi stacked with 3 different hives, a Amarr Logi with 3 different uplinks and using them just to lay down piles before going back to my preferred race. Since we obviously each have our own preferred playstyle, (and some leaving logi because it no longer fits with the proposed changes) it seems completely logical to stockpile on the one suit to get our use out and never have to worry about again. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2155	Posted - 2014.02.28 05:24:00 - [290] - Quote lee corwood wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: Caldari is ... okay I suppose. I don't use as many hives as some due to running around with a rep tool ... and Injectors don't change. I think people are missing out on some of the potential of the Caldari logi. With the nerf to rep tools and the squishy Minnie suit being the only one who gets it back to its former glory, triage hives will start looking very attractive. This is part of why I feel EQ spam will get worse. Both to create auras of health but also because like Thrydwulf, I don't run with hives very often and lately I feel that has been the wrong approach. I was that twirling ballerina but honestly I've started to run without a scanner. I created an alt and really built up better situational awareness and gun game (tho I still suck ), I'm prepping for the 1.8 snapshot forcing more eyes on approach and with the heavy event, I can't give enough ammo away. That being said, I'm also seeing some high end guns that soak up my ammo faster than I can dish it out. Forgers and MDs are eating it up. 3 reloads and I'm out (ADV) maybe one more for proto if they themselves are not running proto. With the ammo distribution getting lower, I see hundreds of people bring these to the battle given logis can no longer do it alone. And lastly, abuse. If one race gets the benefit and a fix isn't made to EQ spam, what's to stop me, a Min Logi at the core from speccing into a Cal logi stacked with 3 different hives, a Amarr Logi with 3 different uplinks and using them just to lay down piles before going back to my preferred race. Since we obviously each have our own preferred playstyle, (and some leaving logi because it no longer fits with the proposed changes) it seems completely logical to stockpile on the one suit to get our use out and never have to worry about again. I already have the cal logi to ADV because the Amarr logi was broken when it first came out. I'm definitely keeping it even if there's a respec less for the hives but so I have a shield tanked suit if the balance goes back the other way (it's getting there with the RR spam) and shield > armor again. Minnie and gallants no, because well fck those guys. RP aside, it's probably going to be de rigeur for dedicated logis to get to ADV in at least one other suit. Fortunately that's not a huge SP investment, maybe a months worth, 6 weeks at most. It's not going to change thing that much in a way since I'm sure we all have 5-10 fits for different situations anyway, now they just might be a different races suit. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"* -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!

CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 260	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:42:00 - [291] - Quote I think that it will almost be mandatory for me to skill into Amarr and Caldari suits at least to ADV level. I hope they reduce the SP needed to get a suit to level 5. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 565	Posted - 2014.03.02 03:14:00 - [292] - Quote It would be cool if the nanite injectors were affected by the caldari bonus as well, but I wouldn't count the caldari logistics out yet. Depending on how the feedback was received for the equipment as well as the suits will determine the ultimate fate of the logi. That being said I wouldn't count the Caldari logistics suit out yet, those nano bonuses to the repair rate will be awesome if there is a way to continually resupply the hives. If there is some sort of equipment-limiting-change the need for hives will remain the same but the requirement to die in order resupply them will be ridiculous; unless the resupply points will refill equipment slots. Regardless, the current bonuses that relate to disposable equipment are powerful but also more limited due to their temporary nature. But they are commonly the greatest SP earners. It is the Gallente bonus that will not net as much SP, but that will be made up for with carrying other equipment; just as the Minmatar will have to do (depending on the repping available in a match). The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 128	Posted - 2014.03.02 04:13:00 - [293] - Quote With nanite injectors and triage hives working on armour only, I still feel that equipment is a bit of a mismatch for the Caldari race... Any whispers on hybrid (shield/armour) versions on either anytime soon?
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 260	Posted - 2014.03.02 11:11:00 - [294] - Quote I really hope that they fix the equipment spam problem, but having to die in order to restock my nanohives feels excessive, I would be fine with some sort of cooldown auto-restock though Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 567	Posted - 2014.03.02 21:37:00 - [295] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: With nanite injectors and triage hives working on armour only, I still feel that equipment is a bit of a mismatch for the Caldari race... Any whispers on hybrid (shield/armour) versions on either anytime soon? Not that I have heard of, but I do agree that something like that would be a boon on the battlefield. And while I can't argue about lore reasons for the nanites (because I am not that versed in them) a shield transporter would seem more appropriate. I would also like to have the hybrids that you and other mercs have alluded to. Just because one type of technology originated or was more prominent with one race or another does not mean that the other races do not have their variants that work better in some ways or are converted for use in another piece of equipment. While that view is a little more 'big picture' I also understand that this is a game and because of that certain boundaries need to be maintained. Still, I hope for things like that. The equipment spam and restocking is a careful balancing act for the game, though I would like to see some balance conversations from CCP. I look forward to what CCP has in the works for the future. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 568	Posted - 2014.03.09 05:20:00 - [296] - Quote With the medium frame slot count not yet released but knowing that there will be some stat adjustments to the medium frame, irrespective of a slot overhaul, I would add a word of caution if the respec goes through. -WAIT- Seriously. When suit changes hit along with new variants for each class I have no doubt that we will want to jump into a new suit to commit to one bonus or another. But I would caution you to hold off until we know more because it sucks to make a change, commit, and then have that choice adjusted later on (we have all experienced it). So rather than risk the logi community, well medium frame community, crying for another respec after such changes we should look at our limited options. 1. We could choose to wait for the slot changes before committing to a suit. Focus on core upgrades, equipment, and a weapon or two while we wait for more news. 2. Knowing that some of us are committed to a race or bonus, regardless of changes, we will make the suit choice regardless of the future. 3. Choose a different class altogether - Scouts are the new Logi-lights. Or flee the logi life and suit up in something a little heavier. Whatever you choose - there may be more choices as this was a quick note - know that it will be most likely be permanent. I support a respec, but do with that all the large changes were in before a respec. Or a skill revamp altogether. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2247	Posted - 2014.03.09 05:27:00 - [297] - Quote AFAIK, they won't be changing the medium frames much in 1.8. Admittedly that thread regards the Amarr assault specifically, but I do believe it applies to all of them. I'm not as certain about base stats but I'm pretty sure slot counts are not being touched. That said, SP restraint is aways good advice. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 568	Posted - 2014.03.09 08:22:00 - [298] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: AFAIK, they won't be changing the medium frames much in 1.8. Admittedly that thread regards the Amarr assault specifically, but I do believe it applies to all of them. I'm not as certain about base stats but I'm pretty sure slot counts are not being touched. That said, SP restraint is always good advice. Last few comments from the Devs like Logibro stated that there will be changes in 1.8 to med dropsuit stats but that the slot count will need to wait for another time, didn't quite make it into this one. That being said I believe it was CPM or was it Saber wing that said there would be not changes to the medium dropsuits at this time (1.8) so who knows. What I would base my previous statement on is the dev posts from the last month about such changes, one of which you helpfully pointed out. Slot PG/CPU balancing is coming. (march) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1903789#post1903789 "Expect those changes to come at a later date." Base Stat Changes Coming (Feb) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1825406#post1825406 "Just to add, the Medium Frames are all getting some base stat adjustments, but no changes to slots (though that's not ruled out for post 1.8)" Whether they will all wait until after 1.8 or if CCP will give some now and then some later i don't know, or if there are changes beyond the PG/CPU and slot changes slated, but like you I think it will be interesting to see. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 559	Posted - 2014.03.09 08:27:00 - [299] - Quote Last I heard, the forum page was updated on 5.3.2014 and the new stats are shown as the following in excel for all suits: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/forums/Stats_1_8_DropsuitsWeapons.xlsx Take this as a grain of salt tho. With so many dates and random fecking forum posts by the Devs, I don't know who's the latest and who's just talking out their a$$ trying to be mysterious. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 568	Posted - 2014.03.09 08:41:00 - [300] - Quote Thank you lee, though the file provided is in error the main page has the values, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370&find=unread And the picture provided http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/DUST/Medium_Frames.png While CCP had provided the new planned bonuses tday is the first time I saw the planned medium suits. IT INCLUDES changes to Armor HP, Shield HP, Shield Recharge values, Armor Reps, Hacking Speeds, Stamina, and Stamina Recharge ect.... So, I will be updating the guide. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro

Templar Twelve Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 41	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:39:00 - [301] - Quote Thank you for providing the Code. This has been a enjoyable reading and learning. Been doing logistic and apparently following the Logi Code for a long time without even knowing about this guide, finding it now. From one to the other. Logibro, I salute you. Librarian and Keeper of the Praetorian Temple Library
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2439	Posted - 2014.03.20 00:20:00 - [302] - Quote Patch notes are out. I'm interested to see your updates as it appears that I am going to be skilling into at least one more logi suit now (likely Caldari, maybe Gallente later). I have use for your wisdom once again, oracle of the logi! (Gotta go update my uplink guide too!) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 630	Posted - 2014.03.20 01:24:00 - [303] - Quote Until I get an answer to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1955287#post1955287 I'm nervous about skilling into any other logi suit. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 270	Posted - 2014.03.21 18:54:00 - [304] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Until I get an answer to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1955287#post1955287 I'm nervous about skilling into any other logi suit. Well, I'm not a game developper but I think that constantly checking for what dropsuit you are wearing and accordingly changing the bonuses on every Uplink and Nanohive that you have already deploied on the field, and doing this for every player, would be quite a work for the server and cause performance issues. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2462	Posted - 2014.03.21 20:06:00 - [305] - Quote CaveCav wrote: lee corwood wrote: Until I get an answer to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1955287#post1955287 I'm nervous about skilling into any other logi suit. Well, I'm not a game developper but I think that constantly checking for what dropsuit you are wearing and accordingly changing the bonuses on every Uplink and Nanohive that you have already deploied on the field, and doing this for every player, would be quite a work for the server and cause performance issues. Good point, hadn't thought about it that way. The simplest way certainly would be to have the attributes of the deployed item remain a static value based on the suit it was deployed from. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 634	Posted - 2014.03.21 22:46:00 - [306] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CaveCav wrote: lee corwood wrote: Until I get an answer to this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1955287#post1955287 I'm nervous about skilling into any other logi suit. Well, I'm not a game developper but I think that constantly checking for what dropsuit you are wearing and accordingly changing the bonuses on every Uplink and Nanohive that you have already deploied on the field, and doing this for every player, would be quite a work for the server and cause performance issues. Good point, hadn't thought about it that way. The simplest way certainly would be to have the attributes of the deployed item remain a static value based on the suit it was deployed from. That's actually a very reassuring thought. I think with that in mind, I have confidence in speccing into multiple logis. Proto Min, Amarr and Caldari, here I come. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 40	Posted - 2014.03.25 21:37:00 - [307] - Quote Does anyone else think the AR is obsolete now? With the RR and the CR being more powerful with a longer range many people switched to them. 1.8 gave what I believe to be a much needed nerf to the damage of the RR and CR, the AR was also nerfed, just played today and it seemed to be so inadaquete despite having an adv damage mod, Which is sad since I blew my remaining SP into AR reload and ammo after speccing into min-logi and maxing weapon mod and scanners We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 273	Posted - 2014.03.26 08:20:00 - [308] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: Does anyone else think the AR is obsolete now? With the RR and the CR being more powerful with a longer range many people switched to them. 1.8 gave what I believe to be a much needed nerf to the damage of the RR and CR, the AR was also nerfed, just played today and it seemed to be so inadaquete despite having an adv damage mod, Which is sad since I blew my remaining SP into AR reload and ammo after speccing into min-logi and maxing weapon mod and scanners Actually no, I wouldn't define it obsolete. While the CR is my go to gun I often find myself switching guns based on how is the match flowing, if my squad decides to move in a CQC environement I'll switch to AR, if we could find ourselves in a more long range scenario I'll pick up a RR or a ScR, if we are defending a chokepoint I'll take a MD. The AR is still good in the right situations. On a side note, could anyone that had the occasion to play with the new scanners please explain to me how exactly this new "snapshot" mechanic works? Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 40	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:41:00 - [309] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Soulskulptor wrote: Does anyone else think the AR is obsolete now? With the RR and the CR being more powerful with a longer range many people switched to them. 1.8 gave what I believe to be a much needed nerf to the damage of the RR and CR, the AR was also nerfed, just played today and it seemed to be so inadaquete despite having an adv damage mod, Which is sad since I blew my remaining SP into AR reload and ammo after speccing into min-logi and maxing weapon mod and scanners Actually no, I wouldn't define it obsolete. While the CR is my go to gun I often find myself switching guns based on how is the match flowing, if my squad decides to move in a CQC environement I'll switch to AR, if we could find ourselves in a more long range scenario I'll pick up a RR or a ScR, if we are defending a chokepoint I'll take a MD. The AR is still good in the right situations. On a side note, could anyone that had the occasion to play with the new scanners please explain to me how exactly this new "snapshot" mechanic works? just as it sounds. You just point, pull the trigger in bam, anyone in the scanners effective field that doesn't beat it's scan precision is marked. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
Thrydwulf Khodan 75	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:48:00 - [310] - Quote Possible interesting behavior for uplinks in Amarr suits. I'm not seeing the bonus when I die and have to spawn back in.

lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 658	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:56:00 - [311] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: Possible interesting behavior for uplinks in Amarr suits. I'm not seeing the bonus when I die and have to spawn back in. This appears to mean that if you swap suits that the bonuses go away. I am not seeing the same. I have Proto Amarr Logi but I ran a match in my free scout suit so I wouldn't lose money to all the invisible players trying out stuff. None of my uplinks were longer than 3 seconds. I think I get the bonus regardless of the suit I'm wearing. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 273	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:48:00 - [312] - Quote Are the scanners still worth using? Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 658	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:53:00 - [313] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Are the scanners still worth using? I stacked two scanners on one suit. They definitely fixed it to really quick snap shot, but most everyone I saw playing scout max cloak to 5 on a lvl 5 scout suit with lvl 5 dampeners. I saw basically EQ and that was it. In a week, that might change more. You're still going to pick up the commandos as chevrons which are kinda fun, but I honestly haven't seen that many. Everyone is going invisible. the cooldown icons are cool tho :) Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 40	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:39:00 - [314] - Quote lee corwood wrote: CaveCav wrote: Are the scanners still worth using? I stacked two scanners on one suit. They definitely fixed it to really quick snap shot, but most everyone I saw playing scout max cloak to 5 on a lvl 5 scout suit with lvl 5 dampeners. I saw basically EQ and that was it. In a week, that might change more. You're still going to pick up the commandos as chevrons which are kinda fun, but I honestly haven't seen that many. Everyone is going invisible. the cooldown icons are cool tho :) I noticed they added a little timer near the bottom left corner (to the right of the HP display) that shows the progress of the scanners recharge We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
ET Light Dark Knightz Corp. 0	Posted - 2014.03.27 04:10:00 - [315] - Quote With cloaked scouts running around would it be a good idea to run precision enhancers on logi in addition to scanners?
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 279	Posted - 2014.03.27 07:26:00 - [316] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: Does anyone else think the AR is obsolete now? With the RR and the CR being more powerful with a longer range many people switched to them. 1.8 gave what I believe to be a much needed nerf to the damage of the RR and CR, the AR was also nerfed, just played today and it seemed to be so inadaquete despite having an adv damage mod, Which is sad since I blew my remaining SP into AR reload and ammo after speccing into min-logi and maxing weapon mod and scanners No, I think we're probably gonna see a comeback of the standard AR. With 1.8, all the Sentinel suits have damage reduction bonuses, but only two (Cal and Min) have resistance to 'hybrid - blaster' damage, which is what the AR is classed as. When people start realizing their railguns and combat rifles aren't working as well against Gals and Amarr Sents because of their bonuses, I think you'll see an increase of GEKs and Duvolles back on the field. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, Fatsuit
Thrydwulf Khodan 75	Posted - 2014.03.27 10:34:00 - [317] - Quote I am seeing a wider variety of weapons on the field. And assault mass drivers are in that list. (Ouch!)
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 273	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:00:00 - [318] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: I am seeing a wider variety of weapons on the field. And assault mass drivers are in that list. (Ouch!) Time to bring the boy out for a spin. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2512	Posted - 2014.03.27 13:47:00 - [319] - Quote My LR will be making a big comeback too. Magsec + LR on my Amarr logi sounds really nice.... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 662	Posted - 2014.03.27 14:54:00 - [320] - Quote I'm incredibly happy to see the large arsenal we've always had back onto the field. I hope it stays this way. In other news: "Freedom Mass Driver. I've missed you. Let's find some Commandos for you to say hi to." Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick

CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 280	Posted - 2014.04.01 08:06:00 - [321] - Quote Bump. Devs sticky this, now. Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 40	Posted - 2014.04.07 05:02:00 - [322] - Quote So this might seem as a dumb question but, which would be better for a Minlogi at proto level? 2 Shield Extenders and 2 Light Weapon Damage Mods or 1 Extender, 2 damage mods, and a Shield Recharger? We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 172	Posted - 2014.04.07 05:46:00 - [323] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: So this might seem as a dumb question but, which would be better for a Minlogi at proto level? 2 Shield Extenders and 2 Light Weapon Damage Mods or 1 Extender, 2 damage mods, and a Shield Recharger? I am a min logi proto myself. The great thing about us is that we can literally pick to shield tank, armor tank, or hybrid tank. The following is assuming all prototype level (dropsuit shield upgrade @ 5 and all the shielding components @ 5).. With 4 extenders you will get 403 @ a 8 second delay. With 3 extenders and a re-charger, you will get 330 @ 7.4 second depleted delay and a 30 hp/s re-charge on shields. 2 extenders leaves you with 258 shield and 1 leaves you with 185 shield. It is really up to you to decide between damage or health. If I had to choose I would Like the first option you had. Personally I would do 2 extenders (complex), 1 re-charger (enhanced since I am only level 3 and FW is a joke), and 1 damage mod (complex). Just remember to be a LogiBro before anything else and stick with your squad. Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Have been a Logistics user since Uprising 1.0. Yea that old.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 704	Posted - 2014.04.07 16:59:00 - [324] - Quote I'm with DJ. I love my proto min logi though I don't bring it out much. A good logi is only as good as their squad/team. If I have a great team, I almost never need my gun ever so the dmg mod does me nothing. Versus a less than good team, I am forced to bite back and that extra damage has saved me plenty against a charging redberry. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 288	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:00:00 - [325] - Quote I haven't skilled into rechargers yet, I can say that on my ADV Minlogi (that's the suit I use 98.8% of the time) I like 2 Complex Shield Extenders and 1 Enhanced Damage Mod. I have one fit that is purely shield tanked with a Cardiac Regulator. Maybe I'll skill Kin Cats to level 3 to try something faster Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 705	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:19:00 - [326] - Quote While there is no official answer, I just wanted to post here to say that after multiple players have tested items, it seems that your EQ bonus is only maintained while you are wearing the specific suit required. This has been tested by many players, myself included so a fair warning to all those that would invest in the future. That is an insane amount of SP to spend to be tied in such a manner so before people start thinking of skilling into multiple logi suits, be warned. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 289	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:27:00 - [327] - Quote lee corwood wrote: While there is no official answer, I just wanted to post here to say that after multiple players have tested items, it seems that your EQ bonus is only maintained while you are wearing the specific suit required. This has been tested by many players, myself included so a fair warning to all those that would invest in the future. That is an insane amount of SP to spend to be tied in such a manner so before people start thinking of skilling into multiple logi suits, be warned. So it's either: A) Suits bonus to equipment is bugged or B) All that beautyful theorycrafting about server performances I made was wrong Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2622	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:30:00 - [328] - Quote CaveCav wrote: lee corwood wrote: While there is no official answer, I just wanted to post here to say that after multiple players have tested items, it seems that your EQ bonus is only maintained while you are wearing the specific suit required. This has been tested by many players, myself included so a fair warning to all those that would invest in the future. That is an insane amount of SP to spend to be tied in such a manner so before people start thinking of skilling into multiple logi suits, be warned. So it's either: A) Suits bonus to equipment is bugged or B) All that beautyful theorycrafting about server performances I made was wrong I agree, it does seem like it would be tougher on the server load this way but considering I know next to nothing about coding, I'll just leave it alone. In related news, I guess I've finally run out of excuses to update my uplink guide for 1.8... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 705	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:34:00 - [329] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CaveCav wrote: lee corwood wrote: While there is no official answer, I just wanted to post here to say that after multiple players have tested items, it seems that your EQ bonus is only maintained while you are wearing the specific suit required. This has been tested by many players, myself included so a fair warning to all those that would invest in the future. That is an insane amount of SP to spend to be tied in such a manner so before people start thinking of skilling into multiple logi suits, be warned. So it's either: A) Suits bonus to equipment is bugged or B) All that beautyful theorycrafting about server performances I made was wrong I agree, it does seem like it would be tougher on the server load this way but considering I know next to nothing about coding, I'll just leave it alone. No you're all right. Keeping a thread process open like that would be incredibly intensive to the already high performance of all the other components to the game itself. Even if the thread is as small as opening every 60 seconds to check on number stats, doing so for 32 players... And it does have to be time based. So far all research has shown a 'lag' for how long until the bonus resets when switching off suits either from death or supply depot change. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
CaveCav D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 289	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:52:00 - [330] - Quote lee corwood wrote: No you're all right. Keeping a thread process open like that would be incredibly intensive to the already high performance of all the other components to the game itself. Even if the thread is as small as opening every 60 seconds to check on number stats, doing so for 32 players... And it does have to be time based. So far all research has shown a 'lag' for how long until the bonus resets when switching off suits either from death or supply depot change. I know nothing about programming and stuff but I said something right...YAY! If I understood what you said correctly (and I'm not too sure about that) multiple people spamming different equipment pieces from different suits would be able to lag a match worst than 1.7 causing massive lag spikes when this thread thing run? Dedicated Logibro, Gunner, Counter-Sniper

lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 705	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:00:00 - [331] - Quote CaveCav wrote: lee corwood wrote: No you're all right. Keeping a thread process open like that would be incredibly intensive to the already high performance of all the other components to the game itself. Even if the thread is as small as opening every 60 seconds to check on number stats, doing so for 32 players... And it does have to be time based. So far all research has shown a 'lag' for how long until the bonus resets when switching off suits either from death or supply depot change. I know nothing about programming and stuff but I said something right...YAY! If I understood what you said correctly (and I'm not too sure about that) multiple people spamming different equipment pieces from different suits would be able to lag a match worst than 1.7 causing massive lag spikes when this thread thing run? Correct. A thread is just a fancy word for it but its a process that runs independant of the rest of the code base that allows the rest of the game to carry on and do what it normally does (altho right now rather badly) like hit detection, movement, etc. The way I would 'imagine' they would have gone about this is a thread that has a timer and sleeps for 60 seconds and then runs, sleeps 60 seconds, and runs. It's probably likely that its even longer than 60 seconds, because imagine it has to do this: run check step- what eq is on the map run match step- what person does said eq belong to run bonus step- if suit = has bonus, change stat, otherwise, revert to base stat of said tier (and just imagine this one having to compute based on if they have the suit on, then what level skill do they have regardless of suit and then what variant of eq did they use, run some math, now start all over again for the next piece of EQ on the map) If I had a thread that had to do this for every piece of EQ on the field, for every variant and for every player, it probably would take me a bit longer than 60 seconds to run depending on my available resources, so really probably only runs every 2-3 mins, 5 tops if we're stretching it. But that's still a lot of dedicated process power to dedicate. We already had problems with EQ spam to begin with. This will just makes things exponentially worse. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 40	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:48:00 - [332] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: Soulskulptor wrote: So this might seem as a dumb question but, which would be better for a Minlogi at proto level? 2 Shield Extenders and 2 Light Weapon Damage Mods or 1 Extender, 2 damage mods, and a Shield Recharger? I am a min logi proto myself. The great thing about us is that we can literally pick to shield tank, armor tank, or hybrid tank. The following is assuming all prototype level (dropsuit shield upgrade @ 5 and all the shielding components @ 5).. With 4 extenders you will get 403 @ a 8 second delay. With 3 extenders and a re-charger, you will get 330 @ 7.4 second depleted delay and a 30 hp/s re-charge on shields. 2 extenders leaves you with 258 shield and 1 leaves you with 185 shield. It is really up to you to decide between damage or health. If I had to choose I would Like the first option you had. Personally I would do 2 extenders (complex), 1 re-charger (enhanced since I am only level 3 and FW is a joke), and 1 damage mod (complex). Just remember to be a LogiBro before anything else and stick with your squad. Hybrid tank, you mean like High Slots: 1 Extender, 2 light damage mods, 1 Recharger with Low slots: 1 armor rep, 1 Armor plate, 1 cpu mod, and 1 shield regulator? Haven't noticed any issues with EQ cpu and pg. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 172	Posted - 2014.04.08 06:41:00 - [333] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: Dj grammer wrote: Soulskulptor wrote: So this might seem as a dumb question but, which would be better for a Minlogi at proto level? 2 Shield Extenders and 2 Light Weapon Damage Mods or 1 Extender, 2 damage mods, and a Shield Recharger? I am a min logi proto myself. The great thing about us is that we can literally pick to shield tank, armor tank, or hybrid tank. The following is assuming all prototype level (dropsuit shield upgrade @ 5 and all the shielding components @ 5).. With 4 extenders you will get 403 @ a 8 second delay. With 3 extenders and a re-charger, you will get 330 @ 7.4 second depleted delay and a 30 hp/s re-charge on shields. 2 extenders leaves you with 258 shield and 1 leaves you with 185 shield. It is really up to you to decide between damage or health. If I had to choose I would Like the first option you had. Personally I would do 2 extenders (complex), 1 re-charger (enhanced since I am only level 3 and FW is a joke), and 1 damage mod (complex). Just remember to be a LogiBro before anything else and stick with your squad. Hybrid tank, you mean like High Slots: 1 Extender, 2 light damage mods, 1 Recharger with Low slots: 1 armor rep, 1 Armor plate, 1 cpu mod, and 1 shield regulator? Haven't noticed any issues with EQ cpu and pg. Hybrid meaning heavy in both shields and armor. In most cases my suit when Hybrid tanking would have 3 complex shield extenders and 3 enhanced armor plates. Usually totaling around 330 shield and 550 armor. Sometimes I run 403 shield and about 450 armor Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Have been a Logistics user since Uprising 1.0. Yea that old.
Thrydwulf Khodan 83	Posted - 2014.04.18 14:04:00 - [334] - Quote Note: While I'm sure someone else didn't miss this "nerf" I did until looking at the Scanning Table for 1.8 provided in the URL here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fspreadsheet%2fccc%3fkey%3d0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc%26amp%3bamp%3busp%3dsharing%23gid%3d0&domain=google.com There is no difference between the Scan Profile for ALL medium suits. Prior to 1.8 Logi suits ran at 45. Post 1.8 they now run at a base of 50 for their profile. Profile Dampening looks like it will be highly useful with the new changes.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 213	Posted - 2014.04.24 07:36:00 - [335] - Quote Hey CCP could you sticky this? Open Beta (03/26/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Have been a Logistics user since Uprising 1.0. Yea that old.
KILLER 20965 Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 3	Posted - 2014.04.29 15:57:00 - [336] - Quote As a fellow logi bro, I say... Bump GÇÿCLOSED BETAGÇÖ Player Mk.0 support Logistics *Learn about how logi's work.*
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2044	Posted - 2014.05.18 17:18:00 - [337] - Quote Info bump SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 195	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:22:00 - [338] - Quote Bump. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
KILLER 20965 The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.05.28 17:31:00 - [339] - Quote Based on the information provided by OP, this is I feel this is necessary. Bump IS THAT ALL YOU GOT!!! I once owned a district Yes I run logi, got a problem?
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 597	Posted - 2014.06.05 04:35:00 - [340] - Quote Wow, sorry for the long absence - i recently moved to another city to work for a startup company that is eating all of my hours and now I finally found an apartment so I can move my family up with me - just very busy IRL. Hotfix Alpha just hit and I'll run through the guide again to see what may need to be changed. THis last week I was running entirely proto gear - and lost 30 million but had a great time doing it. With the announcement of Project Legion there is much to look forward to - for both dust players and those jumping to legion or even playing both. The communication from the Devs has been a welcome addition, it seems to come in phases, but welcome regardless. CPM 1 position is OPEN. Currently I will throw whatever influence I may have behind Cross Atu. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 597	Posted - 2014.06.05 04:49:00 - [341] - Quote Cross Atu for CPM1. You might ask why I would post such a thing in this logi thread, that is because Cross was also here in the beginning and has helped influence the path that this game has taken. He has helped me figure out pieces to the logi puzzle and has had a great deal to say during CCP's requests for input and any discussion that lends itself to making Dust 514 an overall better game. For that reason every player should get involved, new and experienced, and throw your voice behind a candidate that you feel will best represent the playerbase. There are many decent applicants and after reading so many posts over the couple years I've been involved with dust Cross has continually had a gift for reason, logic, and balance that I think is hard to find in other candidates. Others are perhaps more outspoken or get more attention but Cross Atu has usually been ahead of the subjects that they address and already began a presentation of the issues and proffered solutions backed up by his ability to round out each statement. Given the time I believe Cross can sway the opinions and views of the CPM, Dev's, and the players because he takes the time to listen, explain, and re-address an issue so that everyone's point is fully developed and understood by those involved. In that kind of atmosphere the best solution usually arises and is supported by all involved. It is what I have seen in the past and it is a future that I could look forward to. RedBleach supports CPM1 Candidate Cross Atu - it is the logical choice. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
Auorra Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 3	Posted - 2014.06.06 03:13:00 - [342] - Quote What about the Minmatar logistic suits? I got one for the healing boost. I also upgraded to an advanced nanite injector. But now restocking is very expensive. There's a lot of talk about Caldarri suits. But how about the Minmatar? If only I knew it required you to buy a skill before you could actually hit your target...
Thrydwulf Khodan 98	Posted - 2014.06.06 21:42:00 - [343] - Quote Auorra wrote: What about the Minmatar logistic suits? I got one for the healing boost. I also upgraded to an advanced nanite injector. But now restocking is very expensive. There's a lot of talk about Caldarri suits. But how about the Minmatar? What about the Minmatar logi suits? They're fairly standard 'bread & butter' for a repair based logi with a solid number of fitting slots all-round. If you feel that type of play is working for you then go for it. (I run Amarr suits for the second weapon, how uplink bonuses function, and for RP reasons.) Restocking is always going to be 'expensive' for logibro, the key is to play within your budget. If that means that you're running a standard fit suit with maxed out fitting skills and a Proto repper and advanced injector. That's alright. For a 'baseline' My normal use suits run between 27K and 45K. If you have a specific question, just let us know!
MINA Longstrike 832	Posted - 2014.06.06 23:58:00 - [344] - Quote Auorra wrote: What about the Minmatar logistic suits? I got one for the healing boost. I also upgraded to an advanced nanite injector. But now restocking is very expensive. There's a lot of talk about Caldarri suits. But how about the Minmatar? Play within your means, if something is too expensive look for what you can downgrade while keeping its effectiveness. If you're dying too frequently it's because you're either getting picked off because you're not in a squad or you don't have enough EHP (Minmatar logi's are really good in that they can mount both complex shield extenders and a decent chunk of armor too). I'd suggest upgrading your Shield extenders / Shield upgrades or Armor plates / repairers and armor upgrades. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3612	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:56:00 - [345] - Quote Bump (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 40	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:21:00 - [346] - Quote I run standard Ammar Logi and im wondering LR or ScR. i ussaully find a heavy to buddy up and rep and when he dies i revive him.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3615	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:42:00 - [347] - Quote Zindorak wrote: I run standard Ammar Logi and im wondering LR or ScR. i ussaully find a heavy to buddy up and rep and when he dies i revive him. Amarr logi would be the only one to even consider the LR. I use it on mine for certain situations but not on my chubby chaser suit, for that I would definitely recommend the ScR. It has both the range to make up for the heavy's weakness and the ability to take someone out 1v1 at close range so you can safely do the revive. As much as I love it, IMO the LR is too big a liability in CQC so unless you are really really good with your sidearm it's best to have it on a situational fitting, not your primary heavy support suit. It's hard to envision finding yourself frequently staying in the type of spot the LR excels in when you are paired up with a HMG sentinel. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 40	Posted - 2014.07.04 03:00:00 - [348] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Zindorak wrote: I run standard Ammar Logi and im wondering LR or ScR. i ussaully find a heavy to buddy up and rep and when he dies i revive him. Amarr logi would be the only one to even consider the LR. I use it on mine for certain situations but not on my chubby chaser suit, for that I would definitely recommend the ScR. It has both the range to make up for the heavy's weakness and the ability to take someone out 1v1 at close range so you can safely do the revive. As much as I love it, IMO the LR is too big a liability in CQC so unless you are really really good with your sidearm it's best to have it on a situational fitting, not your primary heavy support suit. It's hard to envision finding yourself frequently staying in the type of spot the LR excels in when you are paired up with a HMG sentinel. ok i got to get ScR operation to lvl 5
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 230	Posted - 2014.07.04 22:24:00 - [349] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: AR - [b]the Assault Rifle is a standard piece of equipment on the battlefield that works better on armor than shields. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill. The GEK or Exile/Dren/Toxin (BPO from Merc Packs) AR is alright for a Logi, at advanced levels the TAC AR (TAR) and other rifle variants open up. + can go 1v1 and live in medium to short range battle + versatile weapon with variants + moderately easy to fit - you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team. - out distanced/RoF/damaged by other rifles. AR is better against Shields, as it is a Gallente Weapon. Sorry for the minor gripe, but it is imperative Logi Bros know this. So few of us truly left already From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 614	Posted - 2014.07.08 06:08:00 - [350] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: AR - [b]the Assault Rifle is a standard piece of equipment on the battlefield that works better on armor than shields. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill. The GEK or Exile/Dren/Toxin (BPO from Merc Packs) AR is alright for a Logi, at advanced levels the TAC AR (TAR) and other rifle variants open up. + can go 1v1 and live in medium to short range battle + versatile weapon with variants + moderately easy to fit - you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team. - out distanced/RoF/damaged by other rifles. AR is better against Shields, as it is a Gallente Weapon. Sorry for the minor gripe, but it is imperative Logi Bros know this. So few of us truly left already Wow, can't believe I missed that... a sad day indeed. but thanks for catching it - I'll get it changed right away :) Makes me wonder if it was always that way...... it has been too long, to long to remember the early years, the good old days when bullets flew straight and skills made them fly farther. Thanks again for shaking me from my sleep The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 238	Posted - 2014.07.08 20:08:00 - [351] - Quote Any time, thanks for this amazing thread :) From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 422	Posted - 2014.07.08 20:55:00 - [352] - Quote A wealth of info for aspiring logis -- one of the best threads on the forums. The following applies to Min logis, with regards to chubby chasing, mostly: With regards to the last posts about the AR, would like to note that it is seems to be a good choice again for logis, now in the era of 1.8 and Hotfix Bravo. Many logis went CR in the last couple builds, specifically the BK-42 as our primary, because the AR left us less competitive with the prevalence of armor tanking -- a logical choice at the time. However, with the rise of the Cal Heavy, I've been thinking about switching back to my trusty GEK. Anybody thinking the same, or have done so already? Interested to hear other logis experiences, regarding what they think is the best support rifle these days: AR, CR, or RR? And when I say 'support rifle', I'm not talking about for being a slayer -- talking about the best rifle to use for mopping up when your heavy goes down, or for protecting your fatboy from long-range threats. I used to think skilling into one primary weapon, and all the rest of your SP going into Enginneering/Electronics/equipment was the best way to go, but now I'm thinking newer logis should consider taking both a shield and armor based rifle, and creating fittings around both, so they can spawn in with what will do the most damage. Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 238	Posted - 2014.07.08 21:17:00 - [353] - Quote It thouroughly depends. The Times have changed. I've been logiing since 1.4, and I still do not have my cores maxed out with 25 million SP. My Minmatar Logi does not need it. I have Engineering 4, Electronics 3. No more. Build as you need. As for weapons, it varies, I have every gun at Advanced. Viziams are great for a match with many scouts as I can usually blast them and kill them before they kill me. I tank out my Logi so 1 v 1, I can usually beat all but the most tanked out scouts. Ars are good for games with numerous Shield enemies, and even then I recommend the Duvolle Tactical. If you aren't slaying, then you need a gun for picking off the wounded trying to run while your squad fights the hard fight. Combat Rifle is my go to in PC and CQC because my primary enemies are heavies. If mine goes down, usually the opponent is down to armor or very low shields. My proficiency 4 CR finishes them, and I rez my friend. Rail Rifles are for Extremely long range warfare, and I only recommend those for when your in a squad or have the high ground. I can't strafe and kill someone if they are within 10 meters of me, I just can't. Some may, but I say keep your enemy at bay with them. It's a good lone wolf gun however because you aren't with the main group, so killing flankers and shooting from afar makes sense. Mass Driver- No. It terminates the very people you're trying to save. If you don't carry a nanite( every true LogiBro does), then fine. Shotgun (CQC only) I did run a build with this however for if you constantly being flanked because I shotty the flanker. Plus not have the lure to shoot people makes you focus on Repping the team more, and makes you itch to use it so your reflexes are twitch when that scout comes around the corner. My main suit, the one I usually use for bush Logi M-1 (I have the skilled maxed out however) Scrambler Rfile (Good for support and slaying)-Proficiency 2 Flux Grenades BDR-8 Triage (Great repping for less isk so you make more money)- Repair Tool Operation 3 Kin-05 Nanite Injector( Allows people to run at least, costs little)- Nanocircutry 3 K-2 Nanohive( You'll need the extra Nanites, and being able to deploy 2 at a time is very useful)- See above 2 Enhanced Shield Extenders 2 Militia Armor Plates Cost- 19, 410 Isk. I make an average of 150k a match if I die three times. If you are getting stomped, switch to Frontlines. The wallet is more important than the KDR. And Please, don't skill all in Electronics and Engineering, that is WAY too much SP that you may not need to even use. I can have 4 proto suits fit very well with what I have. Get all Logi Equipment 5 first, then the suits so you don't constantly go Negative. Hope this helps From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3644	Posted - 2014.07.09 01:05:00 - [354] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: It thouroughly depends. The Times have changed. I've been logiing since 1.4, and I still do not have my cores maxed out with 25 million SP. My Minmatar Logi does not need it. I have Engineering 4, Electronics 3. No more. Build as you need. As for weapons, it varies, I have every gun at Advanced at least. Viziams are great for a match with many scouts as I can usually blast them and kill them before they kill me. I tank out my Logi so 1 v 1, I can usually beat all but the most tanked out scouts, or Mouse and Keyboarders. Assault Rifless are good for games with numerous Shield enemies, and even then I recommend the Duvolle Tactical. If you aren't slaying, then you need a gun for picking off the wounded trying to run while your squad fights the hard fight. Combat Rifle is my go to in PC and CQC because my primary enemies are heavies. If mine goes down, usually the opponent is down to armor or very low shields. My proficiency 4 CR finishes them, and I rez my friend. Rail Rifles are for Extremely long range warfare, and I only recommend those for when your in a squad or have the high ground. I can't strafe and kill someone if they are within 10 meters of me, I just can't. Some may, but I say keep your enemy at bay with them. It's a good lone wolf gun however because you aren't with the main group, so killing flankers and shooting from afar makes sense. Mass Driver- No. It terminates the very people you're trying to save. If you don't carry a nanite( every true LogiBro does), then fine. Shotgun (CQC only) I did run a build with this however for if you constantly being flanked because I shotty the flanker. Plus not having the lure to shoot people makes you focus on Repping the team more, and makes you itch to use it so your reflexes are twitch when that scout comes around the corner. My main suit, the one I usually use for bush Logi M-1 (I have the skill maxed out however) Scrambler Rfile (Good for support and slaying)-Proficiency 2 Flux Grenades BDR-8 Triage (Great repping for less isk so you make more money)- Repair Tool Operation 3 Kin-05 Nanite Injector( Allows people to run at least, costs little)- Nanocircutry 3 K-2 Nanohive( You'll need the extra Nanites, and being able to deploy 2 at a time is very useful)- See above 2 Enhanced Shield Extenders 2 Militia Armor Plates Cost- 19, 410 Isk. I make an average of 150k a match if I die three times. If you are getting stomped, switch to Frontlines. The wallet is more important than the KDR. And Please, don't skill all in Electronics and Engineering, that is WAY too much SP that you may not need to even use. I can have 4 proto suits fit very well with what I have. Get all Logi Equipment 5 first, then the suits so you don't constantly go Negative with isk. Proto Weapon not needed on the suit, it drives up the cost. A basic Scrambler or CR or anything, hell even Militia is more than enough. I'm in Ambush Only channel if you ever want to squad up and talk. 07 Hope this helps Personally I'd say go to 4 on electronics and engineering fairly quickly, then wait a while on level 5. I went to 5 in engineering early because the Amarr logi is so woefully PG deficient I literally had to use a PG extender on almost every suit, which as an armor tanker was pretty rough. I'd really advise newer players to think twice about getting even a third proto suit, much less a fourth, before you max your cores. Anyway, to the question about weapons, I still use the CR most often even though I am both an Amarr loyalist and have AR and ScR BPO's because: 1) the fitting costs of the ScR (I actually used to use the ASCR as my primary weapon for a long time) are ridiculous, and by CCP logic the race with the most PG intensive weapons somehow has the least PG among logi suits. CR fitting costs, by comparison, are insanely low and too good to pass up. 2) I feel like the range of the AR is too short to complement an HMG heavy if I'm paired up with one, and even if I do need to tear someone up at short range, as an Amarr logi I have a highly specced SMG for that. If I still used a cal logi like I did back when the Amarr logi was broken, I might run an AR but the SMG does the job almost as well, so it would really be overlapping/redundant to a large extent. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 243	Posted - 2014.07.09 01:31:00 - [355] - Quote It truly depends on each logi. The Caldari Logi can stack shields as well as Armor extremely Well. As a result, use the Rail Rifle or Scrambler because you can tank damage. Keeping enemies at range is your best bet. Gallente is a Squad Logi. I will always be found near a Gal if one is in the match, no question about it. They armor tank. With being a Logi, have a Fitting so you can respond to what the majority of your enemies are. The Fits should primarily be CQC Open but with Cover Open No Cover Extreme Cover City/ Research Facility From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 897	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:45:00 - [356] - Quote FYI: Hotfix Charlie "Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier." Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:21:00 - [357] - Quote lee corwood wrote: FYI: Hotfix Charlie "Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier." Absolutely not. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 899	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:54:00 - [358] - Quote original post where they are discussing: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2251661#post2251661 Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 439	Posted - 2014.07.11 20:58:00 - [359] - Quote Interesting discussion regarding AR versus CR for logis. I think 501st makes an extremely relevant point: 501st Headstrong wrote: Combat Rifle is my go to in PC and CQC because my primary enemies are heavies. If mine goes down, usually the opponent is down to armor or very low shields. My proficiency 4 CR finishes them, and I rez my friend. If you are running a full squad, this is exactly what happens 99% of the time -- you end up dropping reps and having to finish the opponent off when he's already into armor. This would make the armor-bonus weapons the best for logis, as a general rule: CRs, RRs, Magsecs, and SMGs John Demonsbane wrote: I feel like the range of the AR is too short to complement an HMG heavy if I'm paired up with one Yeah, I feel exactly the same, which is why I like the BK-42 the most. When you first spec into it, it doesn't seem very good, but the key is getting to Sharpshooter 5, even before you take Proficency -- you become much more deadly at a medium range, more quickly. It's a good compliment to the heavy's short range, allowing you to protect him better in the open, but still effective close up, too. RR, while deadly up close, is a bit harder to use in CQC (and I would expect this to get nerfed sometime in the future, anyways), and AR just doesn't seem to have enough range. Combined with the lower CPU/PG requirements, it really makes the CR a good all-around logi weapon. ______________________________________________________________________ As an aside: wanted to point out some errata to your otherwise excellent thread, RedBleach: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: MAG Sec- It is the shield eating variant of the SMG. The Magsec's bonus is to armor, not shields, my man. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 90	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:38:00 - [360] - Quote I must get Amarr Logi to level 3 but it takes sooooo muuuch sp

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 619	Posted - 2014.07.13 18:08:00 - [361] - Quote As an aside: wanted to point out some errata to your otherwise excellent thread, RedBleach: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: MAG Sec- It is the shield eating variant of the SMG. The Magsec's bonus is to armor, not shields, my man.[/quote] Seriously! Where is my HEAD? You are right - don't know what I was thinking. As far as weapons are concerned there is a great amount of disparity between them and their uses. When looking at one that you can use ALWAYS I would shoot for the AR or CR. The AR is always there for me but I feel it has a very difficult time finishing of my opponents because of its ability to remove shields - The SCAR is even more difficult for me, and the fitting costs are outrageous. That being said I am the spray and pray type as I prefer automatics to the semi-automatics - its just better for me and I cant track and time trigger pulls because of an old injury. As the CR is better at destroying armor I tend to favor it or the SMG when running with a pack because I can usually finish of an opponent easier with one of them than any other rifle as they are ususally already damaged. The delay with the RR and MagSec are ridiculous - really only surmountable for me if at optimal distance - in CQC i cant make them work, but many do.... good for them. Hope that can answer some questions - feel free to test it on an alt character before committing it to your main weapon. Don't wast that precious SP. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 622	Posted - 2014.07.13 22:35:00 - [362] - Quote lee corwood wrote: FYI: Hotfix Charlie "Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier." And thanks for the heads up about this. John Demonsbane has been on it along with a fellow named Pokey Dravon who has some really good things to say bout these adjustments. I've seen Cross Atu and several other logi defenders and just level headed minds taking this subject on. There are really two issues the Slot Equalization of tiers and the Amarr Side arm. Slot Equalization We don't know if this means 12 at proto like the Minmatar or 10 or 11. The number of slots has not been shared. We don't know if it will be 3 std, 3 adv, 4 proto or 2 std, 3 adv, 4 proto. We don't know how they will bring the two logis with 3 EQ to the table and balanced. The Gal and Min are there - though equalizing the steps between tiers will be interesting to see for the GAL and CAL BUT the AMR and the CAL are the two question marks. The CAL has a great slot amount but a hard time with fittings, while the AMR has a low slot count, terrible bonus, and a sidearm. Will they benefit from 4 EQ slots? Currently NO. Neither has the fitting power to accommodate their current bonuses, adding another slot would be ridiculous. But if, as some dev conversations have be thinking about, there were a huge increase to the fitting bonuses for logis then the PG/CPU of both the MED Assault and MED Logi frames were brought in line with each other. More is in the works The Amarr Side Arm Two Views: Keep it or dont. Most of the logi community feels it should stay, as do I. Currently the Amarr logi's bonus is the side arm - remove it and there is little else that is special about it. So do we adjust this logi to have no side arm and 4EQ slots - abysmal. or keep it at the 3 EQ + side arm but bring the other slots into alignment. Could look something like a 3/5/3 + sidearm for Amarr and maybe a 5/3/3 +sidearm for CAL if it went that direction. There has been talk of sharing lesser versions of all the racial bonuses as the logi bonus so that logis will always just logi better than any other class - an idea I would certainly like. I urge each logi to visit the Hotfix Charlie discussions and weigh in. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 269	Posted - 2014.07.14 01:06:00 - [363] - Quote Speak my Logi Brothers and Sisters. Your voices may very well be the difference between sweeping changes in New Eden From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 627	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:01:00 - [364] - Quote Just a post from one of the many balancing threads. Throwing the Assaults a bone. A PROPOSAL I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion. My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like. Defining the MED Frames The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots. The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious. Make the ASSAULTs mean. THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS. THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA) Keep the LOGI stats as they are now. ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned. First the LOGI A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes) UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus) AMARR SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)..........ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change) S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm................................S- 3H/3L/2E A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm ................................A- 3H/4L/3E P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm.................................P- 4H/5L/3E CALDARI SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)......ORMODULE Focused (Unique) S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm ....................................S- 3H/3L/2E A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm .....................................A- 4H/3L/3E P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm .....................................P- 5H/4L/3E EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ) GALLENTE S- 2H/3L/3E A- 2H/3L/3E P- 3H/5L/4E MINMATAR S- 2H/2L/3E A- 3H/3L/3E P- 4H/4L/4E Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements. ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way. AMARR EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm CALDARI EQUAL to log.........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm..............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm..............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm GALLENTE EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm MINMATAR EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules. Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module. Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules. Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules. Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules. ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless. It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GÇª but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality. IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move. ThatGÇÖs all I got for now. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 635	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:13:00 - [365] - Quote Well it was an idea anyway. I just don't want CCP to nerf logis just to try and get more people to play assaults. Hell, I would probably go assault if they had the most modules. But bringing them even to the same proposed module count as the logis would make them very powerful. Enough to stem the tide of nerfing? I don't know. I do know that HOTFIX Charlie has brought up, more like dredged up, previous ideas and new ideas from some great sources. I like the thinking that is going on in these threads when they don't just boil down to shield vs. armor arguments. Like I said, I don't have all the answers, but I do like my logi suits. I would like to see the bonuses redone to 15% (at least) for equipment fitting be a class bonus. I would like some sort of racial defensive bonus - just slight, just enough help me slow the loss of suits that are more expensive than all other setups. I would like the Race bonus to be an amalgam of all the 'LOGI' equipment so that logis will always use that equipment better than any other class. I would like to see My Amarr retain their sidearms. I would like............................................................................world peace. :) hahah well here anyway. In Dust war is good for business. I hope for the best; in this game and for all of us. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 334	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:16:00 - [366] - Quote Just saying...your best racial defense should be finding a heavy. If you see none, switch to a basic logi and lay fallback points, as your team most likely won't be holding be holding a point long without one From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN Freedom aw8s
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 636	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:27:00 - [367] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Just saying...your best racial defense should be finding a heavy. If you see none, switch to a basic logi and lay fallback points, as your team most likely won't be holding be holding a point long without one Always having a chubby to chase would be nice. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 637	Posted - 2014.07.19 23:23:00 - [368] - Quote CCP Rattati has responded to further discussion about Logistics class slot layouts and less dramatic gaps in tier progression for Logis. This would tremendously affect Gallente and Caldari Logis in a big way. Also Standardizing the Slot count would mean another slot for our Amarr Logi brothers that have always been shorted in that department. Lastly, The standardization of logis may mean a division of passive logis and active logis. The Amarr and CAL that just drop their equipment would both have sidearms - one shield race and one armor race - would be considered the passive logis. While the Active logis would be the MIN and GAL that have the most equipment slots and bonuses that react with equipment that doesn't get used up. (repper and scanner) See the discussion here. Hotfix Charlie: Dropsuit Slot Equalization The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.05 22:00:00 - [369] - Quote Though delayed it seems that the slot adjustments and tier adjustments are a go. But when it will happen is another question altogether. If that gets squared away the next logi push should be focused on the Logistics class bonuses I think. We will also want to look at the sidearm discussions that are cropping up for hotfix Delta. This is a good age for a logi. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 990	Posted - 2014.08.05 22:42:00 - [370] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: This is a good age for a logi. I'm not feeling the passive VS active Logi idea... In short: The passive logi will just become a much worse version of an assault/scout after all his equipment is used. The current mechanics don't even allow the passive logi to switch suits or he will lose his racial bonus. All this while the active logi will have benefits from their undestroyable/mobile/infinite usage equipment. Callogi will need even more CPU for it's sidearm, while it's not even 100% sure they wil adjust the crap CPU of the suit after all the warnings just out of fear of a slayer logi and shield tanking is still too CPU extensive en suckt compared to armor tanking. Seems that an assault with a rep tool might be more useful than my callogi. This game is getting more cookie cutter like with every update.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.06 17:42:00 - [371] - Quote You have very valid points, and I do hope they all get addressed by CCP in the future. My biggest hope is that the Logi Bonuses will solve that issue. Looking at some way to ensure that a logi is always the best at carrying/using gear. The thoughts have revolved around a race bonus that emphasizes 1 trait and to a lesser extent the other 3 race bonuses. That way a logi will always out-logi any other class. something small but still noticeably better. instead of a 25% to reps Like the Minmatar the other races will have a 10% or something - there has been alot of discussion and I think it is headed in the right direction. This would Keep you CalLogi still in the game - unless you run all nanohives, I would like the nano bonus to be higher and maybe add an extra hive along the way. But we will see. Perhaps the PG/CPU adjustments will happen around that time as well. It is hard to feel that this is a win if the issues you feel need to be spoken to are not getting taken care of. I have no idea how dust will proceed in the future, but the future is all I can look forward to. The ride with CCP has been difficult and not always what I expect. Good or bad, it is what it is. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 964	Posted - 2014.08.06 18:04:00 - [372] - Quote I'm kinda on his side as well. None of this leaves me with 'feel good' vibes. I feel this is ignoring pretty much the death of two of the logi races simply because of how non-equal their bonuses really are. Hives are great and all but their destructibility and lack of portability really hurts them. My hives are often destroyed too quickly to be used or used and abandoned just as quickly. That doesn't given me much incentive to use the CalLogi at all. Much rather put them on my Min/Amarr Logi and do away with the 'bonus' it could provide. For the most part, i feel the GalLogi is getting the shortest end of the stick. Yes, he could scan for the best of the best scouts, but when you're against a proto scout with constant 360 passive scans and you're stuck with a one directional scan that could pick them up in that very distinct space, you're stuck having to stack scanners to be effective. I fail to see how that is useful to your team and/or fun. As a Min/Amarr Logi, you get an almost immediate benefit. For the Amarr, yes sometimes other blueberries completely cover your links so no one can use them, but its a piece of equipment that is vital to the battlefield presence. The number one complaint in my ear when on teams is 'Annnnd great, we're out of uplinks sigh I guess I'll do it'. Second to that is 'does anyone have any reps?'. After that it's '**** I'm out of ammo' which most of the time that someone would rather engage, NOT get revived and die to get more ammo than try and find a nanohive or supply depot. Followed by almost no one ever asking for scans. In fact, since the cloak, no one has ever asked for scans in my games. I don't think splitting up the logi's into two distinctions and providing a sidearm is enough to fix what the real root of the issue is here. Knights of Ender Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.07 22:08:00 - [373] - Quote You are right that the Gal and Cal Logi are underused for their respective bonuses. My opinion was that a logi would choose these two races for the slot layout possibilities over the actual bonus. - even with the bonuses not being that great for these two. - Honestly I feel that the Min has the best. Commenting on why it is 'good' is more that the tiers are being adjusted for each race so that each tiered logi can be on the same slot level as each race. rather than a Gal having only 2 lows while the Min has 4 H/L. With the proposed changes each tier can now be seen as on equal footing rather than a need to switch to ADV level Cal and Gal to compete in slot power with the Amarr and Minmatar. The other positive from the changes is that logis are being looked at again and not just glossed over. Your concerns with the bonuses of both the GAL and CAL are not new, they have been at the center of logi discussion since the change happened so long ago. What is different now is that we are seeing options rather than just living with what has been given to us. Now we can see if our voices will be heard in the Delta or Echo fixes. The Division of Active and Passive Logis It was either separate the logis into two groups or have them all be the exact same - still with current bonuses. Had it gone the other way and the Amarr lost its side arm and all the suits were tier equalized anyway and now had 4 EQ at the proto level, where would you stand? I would argue that your position would still be the same - the changes you (and most of us) want to see (bonuses) have still not been addressed. Therefore, we still harp on the same thing. Thus the stance was that: If the bonuses were off the table (as they were for the Charlie discussion) what else can be fixed with the logi classes? One glaring issue was tier progression and slot equalization. - now it is fixed. Now we can move on to a, "What's next?" discussion with CCP but must wait for their schedule. And when they are open for discussions on bonuses topic we will have alot to say. I agree that the logi bonuses need some work, but there is some hope. So besides the bonuses what needs to be fixed with logis? Because the next hotfix PG/CPU adjustments are due and a few other changes. Lets be ready. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1151	Posted - 2014.08.07 23:40:00 - [374] - Quote about to skill into proto min logi, thanks for the thread/info. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.08 02:46:00 - [375] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: about to skill into proto min logi, thanks for the thread/info. enjoy the pure balance of a 4H 4L 4E layout. There are many things you can do with this suit. You can even speed tank this fit if you choose to but I would recommend Kinetic Catalyzers to be level 5. Trust me I have been a Min Logi Since Uprising 1.0 Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 456	Posted - 2014.08.08 03:26:00 - [376] - Quote Not definitive, but the new changes to Logis in Hotfix Charlie will require a rewrite of the thread. Especially the Amarr Logi part, where I believe they lost a sidearm I miss the old GAM crew :( RESPEC PLEASE After Delta CEO of GODS AMONG MEN Clone Wars forever #Starwars: Battlefront
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 292	Posted - 2014.08.08 05:36:00 - [377] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Not definitive, but the new changes to Logis in Hotfix Charlie will require a rewrite of the thread. Especially the Amarr Logi part, where I believe they lost a sidearm They did but I think they had gained an additional low slot or two and another equipment slot. TBQH (to be quite honest), that pissed me off and I'm not even an Amarr Logi. The sidearm made them unique from the other three. But thanks to people crying hard about how a logi should not have a sidearm, how similar it is to the assault variant, and it was better than the assault variant(I think people failed to do their homework on that one) ruined that. If anything this cause for the forbidden word(s) that CCP banished long ago (lol), this calls for a refund and just leave it at that. The would need to redo the text for the Amarr Logi as well since it loss the sidearm. Caldari loses a low slot in exchange for another equipment slot. Now it is to where Gallente and Minmatar loss their unique aspect as the only two logistics suits to have four equipment slots. Keep in mind I am looking at slot layouts before applying the racial bonuses. Just to summarize this, they standardized/tiercide the equipment and weapon slots for logis when in all reality it was not needed thanks to constant people crying on the thread (i.e. the suit that killed them over and over again is too powerful since they cannot kill them. Maybe it is because they fail to realize they may face someone who played this game for sometime now. Or people want to debuff the other suits but fail to realized they want this in order to keep their suit from being touched.). Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3847	Posted - 2014.08.08 05:46:00 - [378] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Not definitive, but the new changes to Logis in Hotfix Charlie will require a rewrite of the thread. Especially the Amarr Logi part, where I believe they lost a sidearm They did but I think they had gained an additional low slot or two and another equipment slot. TBQH (to be quite honest), that pissed me off and I'm not even an Amarr Logi. The sidearm made them unique from the other three. But thanks to people crying hard about how a logi should not have a sidearm, how similar it is to the assault variant, and it was better than the assault variant(I think people failed to do their homework on that one) ruined that. If anything this cause for the forbidden word(s) that CCP banished long ago (lol), this calls for a refund and just leave it at that. The would need to redo the text for the Amarr Logi as well since it loss the sidearm. Caldari loses a low slot in exchange for another equipment slot. Now it is to where Gallente and Minmatar loss their unique aspect as the only two logistics suits to have four equipment slots. Keep in mind I am looking at slot layouts before applying the racial bonuses. Just to summarize this, they standardized/tiercide the equipment and weapon slots for logis when in all reality it was not needed thanks to constant people crying on the thread (i.e. the suit that killed them over and over again is too powerful since they cannot kill them. Maybe it is because they fail to realize they may face someone who played this game for sometime now. Or people want to debuff the other suits but fail to realized they want this in order to keep their suit from being touched.). Where are you getting this? I don't see anywhere that they are taking the Amarr logi sidearm away. They are talking away the imperial commandos super awesome 3rd weapon slot away, but I'm pretty sure the Amarr logi is keeping the sidearm. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 292	Posted - 2014.08.08 05:48:00 - [379] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Dj grammer wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Not definitive, but the new changes to Logis in Hotfix Charlie will require a rewrite of the thread. Especially the Amarr Logi part, where I believe they lost a sidearm They did but I think they had gained an additional low slot or two and another equipment slot. TBQH (to be quite honest), that pissed me off and I'm not even an Amarr Logi. The sidearm made them unique from the other three. But thanks to people crying hard about how a logi should not have a sidearm, how similar it is to the assault variant, and it was better than the assault variant(I think people failed to do their homework on that one) ruined that. If anything this cause for the forbidden word(s) that CCP banished long ago (lol), this calls for a refund and just leave it at that. The would need to redo the text for the Amarr Logi as well since it loss the sidearm. Caldari loses a low slot in exchange for another equipment slot. Now it is to where Gallente and Minmatar loss their unique aspect as the only two logistics suits to have four equipment slots. Keep in mind I am looking at slot layouts before applying the racial bonuses. Just to summarize this, they standardized/tiercide the equipment and weapon slots for logis when in all reality it was not needed thanks to constant people crying on the thread (i.e. the suit that killed them over and over again is too powerful since they cannot kill them. Maybe it is because they fail to realize they may face someone who played this game for sometime now. Or people want to debuff the other suits but fail to realized they want this in order to keep their suit from being touched.). Where are you getting this? I don't see anywhere that they are taking the Amarr logi sidearm away. They are talking away the imperial commandos super awesome 3rd weapon slot away, but I'm pretty sure the Amarr logi is keeping the sidearm. Why the **** did that particular commando had access to a sidearm slot? Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 292	Posted - 2014.08.08 06:00:00 - [380] - Quote From a fellow logi user to new and incoming users: Tips on the Nanite injector versus the Repair Tool in choices. If you are following the guide it is recommended that you have both equipped but there are times when you fail to have the room for both of them to be at a certain level i.e. Standard, Advance, Prototype or when trying to choose one over the other. The Question and Answer of the day is this, "If I am stuck in that situation which one will benefit me in the long run"? (Not quoting anything so this particular sentence is fine for grammar ***** looking to give anyone a hard time.) Well the answer depends on two things, one is the gamemode being played and two is you yourself as the user. Let us breakdown the answer. 1.) Gamemode based The game mode will help dictate your choice everytime. Playing ambush (regular or OMS) put a higher level nanite injector over the repair tool. That little injector saves clones and will help pull your team from behind or help keep the demanding lead over others. Playing Skirmish or Domination? Bring a higher level repair tool over the nanite injector. It will be 150 versus 150 and a couple of objectives with teams cloning out being about equal to or less than 43% of the time depending on the teams. But here the repair tools can help as well as gaining more war points going towards orbitals. Not only that but keeping your teammate(s) alive in a firefight with one lock on them can cause trouble for others. Now the next question is, "What about PC battles"? This brings me to the next point 2.) Personal Choice/preference PC battles and any other battle outside PC could come down to what you prefer. PC wise (despite it being Skirmish) it depends on what map is the battle taking place, how many clones are there ( your team versus the others), what type(s) of squads are on your team, and etc. But at the end day it comes down to what you think will help boost the team. If you think your team will benefit more off the repair tool then put a better version on and vise versa for the injector. I will say that the answers given are opinion based but also based off noticing things throughout gameplay Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.

RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 997	Posted - 2014.08.08 16:39:00 - [381] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: So besides the bonuses what needs to be fixed with logis? Because the next hotfix PG/CPU adjustments are due and a few other changes. Lets be ready. Just some unlikely idea: If we have to keep our bonuses...maybe they could change the way how equipment works. Make all equipment unlimited use but with some kind of cool-down period for it's next usage, more like the scanner and cloak. Limit maximum active equipment of deployable items per type and maybe let them be destroyed when switching to another suit that hasn't got the equipment currently deployed (fixes spamming aswell, win-win), this way the caldari/amarr logi can keep it's bonus playing the game without needing to restock at the supply depot and losing their bonus. Scanners are squad only, maybe allow it to be visual for a few seconds for the whole team aswell?
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 468	Posted - 2014.08.08 23:00:00 - [382] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Dj grammer wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Not definitive, but the new changes to Logis in Hotfix Charlie will require a rewrite of the thread. Especially the Amarr Logi part, where I believe they lost a sidearm They did but I think they had gained an additional low slot or two and another equipment slot. TBQH (to be quite honest), that pissed me off and I'm not even an Amarr Logi. The sidearm made them unique from the other three. But thanks to people crying hard about how a logi should not have a sidearm, how similar it is to the assault variant, and it was better than the assault variant(I think people failed to do their homework on that one) ruined that. If anything this cause for the forbidden word(s) that CCP banished long ago (lol), this calls for a refund and just leave it at that. The would need to redo the text for the Amarr Logi as well since it loss the sidearm. Caldari loses a low slot in exchange for another equipment slot. Now it is to where Gallente and Minmatar loss their unique aspect as the only two logistics suits to have four equipment slots. Keep in mind I am looking at slot layouts before applying the racial bonuses. Just to summarize this, they standardized/tiercide the equipment and weapon slots for logis when in all reality it was not needed thanks to constant people crying on the thread (i.e. the suit that killed them over and over again is too powerful since they cannot kill them. Maybe it is because they fail to realize they may face someone who played this game for sometime now. Or people want to debuff the other suits but fail to realized they want this in order to keep their suit from being touched.). Where are you getting this? I don't see anywhere that they are taking the Amarr logi sidearm away. They are talking away the imperial commandos super awesome 3rd weapon slot away, but I'm pretty sure the Amarr logi is keeping the sidearm. I can vouch for them that they were about to take the Amarr Logi sidearm away but when I saw it, it was already struckthrough. From community feedback they decided instead of changing the slot layouts of all the suits, they would instead focus on 2 of them and do the rest in Delta. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // New Pilot // @KazeEyrou
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15695	Posted - 2014.08.08 23:06:00 - [383] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: I can vouch for them that they were about to take the Amarr Logi sidearm away but when I saw it, it was already struckthrough. From community feedback they decided instead of changing the slot layouts of all the suits, they would instead focus on 2 of them and do the rest in Delta. Can confirm I saw some talk about removing the sidearm but I think Rattati was discouraged from that path and any changes will be in Delta, anyway. Wait and see. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Enlist in XCOM
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.08 23:19:00 - [384] - Quote I'm with you John: I'm somewhat confused by the most recent postings about removing the side arm from the Amarr. The last indepth discussion I had with Rattatti on the forums moved towards the tier equalization and 2 logis with sidearms AMR and CAL. But, as Arkena Wyrnspire said, wait and see. @RKKR: Your idea about infinite equipment with cool down periods is unique to me, i've never heard it, and we should throw it out there during the delta patch discussions. I like the initial idea... I'll take some time and think on it, what problems do you see with it? The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3848	Posted - 2014.08.09 03:18:00 - [385] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: I can vouch for them that they were about to take the Amarr Logi sidearm away but when I saw it, it was already struckthrough. From community feedback they decided instead of changing the slot layouts of all the suits, they would instead focus on 2 of them and do the rest in Delta. Can confirm I saw some talk about removing the sidearm but I think Rattati was discouraged from that path and any changes will be in Delta, anyway. Wait and see. It was definitely proposed, but the ensuing uproar by myself and others (notably ZDub) effectively quashed it. I still plan on ragequitting for good if they ever actually do it. Anyway, this is an excellent place for those of us dedicated to the way of the logibro for a long time to discuss what changes would be good for the suits, away from the white noise of the dilettantes and fools who got in the way in the various Charlie threads. I'll start with what I think are the 2 crucial areas: Bonuses and the ever present spectre of the killer bee. 1) Bonuses: Other than, you know, fixing the Amarr bonus so it applies properly, most of us can agree that the equipment bonuses should be expanded. The two competing proposals are probably Pokey's and mine. Pokey Dravon: Each logi suit gets a "secondary" bonus, so for example the Amarr logi gets it's current bonus plus a second bonus to reppers thats not as good as the minmatar but still decent. Its too late and I'm too tired to track down his thread right now but I'm sure most of us read it. Mine: Every logi suit gets a bonus to every type of equipment, like so: John Demonsbane wrote: There are so many threads floating around with so many replies I felt like I wanted to put this proposal on itGÇÖs own so I could get feedback (and discussion!) on it. Problem: Medium frames suck because Scouts can do their job just as well in addition to being scouts. Solution: Moar bonuses. IGÇÖll stick to logistics bonuses because thatGÇÖs what I know best. (For assaults the Amarr bonus is obviously the gold standard so that should be the model for the other races.) Currently the logistics equipment bonuses are as follows: All: 5% fitting reduction to equipment Racial bonuses: - Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level. No need to do anything with the fitting bonus for now. For equipment, I propose the following: Primary racial bonuses: No change. Secondary racial bonuses (new GÇô all per level): - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to rep tool range, 1.5% to repair amount - 3% to uplink spawn time, andGÇª 0.4 max spawn count? (that oneGÇÖs tricky!) Naturally this would not stack with the primary bonus, so the min logi would not be getting itGÇÖs 10% plus another 3%. It would just get the 10%, and look like this: Primary bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level Secondary bonuses: - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to uplink spawn time, and 0.4 max spawn count Naturally I think my idea is better. It's logical that a military contractor would build suits that take advantage of all the pertinent equipment and each race would optimize it for their preferred item. It also prevents the inevitable fight that would come up because everyone, particularly the Gallente and Amarr, would want the repper bonus as it's secondary. 2) Killer bees: Does anyone seriously think this will be a problem with the revamped assaults? I do actually have a little fear about the Cal Logi if they give it a sidearm with all those freaking slots and rebuff the CPU. That suit could be beastly again. Otherwise I don't see a big problem. If it does, the simple solution is to nerf the fitting power of the suit slightly and double the equipment fitting bonus. Just like with the similar nerf to sentinel fitting power plus a heavy weapon fitting bonus they are brilliantly putting in Charlie. An excellent example of encouraging but not forcing the "intended" way to fit a suit! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 998	Posted - 2014.08.09 08:25:00 - [386] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: what problems do you see with it? People will be pissed and resist the idea because they can't be running around with their rep tool locked on all the time. It probably requires some coding which I don't see CCP doing.
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 329	Posted - 2014.08.11 03:42:00 - [387] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I'm with you John: I'm somewhat confused by the most recent postings about removing the side arm from the Amarr. The last indepth discussion I had with Rattatti on the forums moved towards the tier equalization and 2 logis with sidearms AMR and CAL. But, as Arkena Wyrnspire said, wait and see. @RKKR: Your idea about infinite equipment with cool down periods is unique to me, i've never heard it, and we should throw it out there during the delta patch discussions. I like the initial idea... I'll take some time and think on it, what problems do you see with it? Equipment spam if the cooldown time is not sufficient enough. Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 509	Posted - 2014.08.28 06:43:00 - [388] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I'm with you John: I'm somewhat confused by the most recent postings about removing the side arm from the Amarr. The last indepth discussion I had with Rattatti on the forums moved towards the tier equalization and 2 logis with sidearms AMR and CAL. But, as Arkena Wyrnspire said, wait and see. @RKKR: Your idea about infinite equipment with cool down periods is unique to me, i've never heard it, and we should throw it out there during the delta patch discussions. I like the initial idea... I'll take some time and think on it, what problems do you see with it? Equipment spam if the cooldown time is not sufficient enough. AND usher in a possible era of Slayer Logis 2.0. People will attempt to use them to kill people and when they need ammo, just lay down a compact nanohive, over and over and over again.... Or an Allotek.... Or a combo Ishukone with a Wyrkomi...... And compound it with uplinks? Equipment spam to the max. Uplink and hive spam would be at it's worst. More laggy matches with more frame dropping and rubberbanding. Just no. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 339	Posted - 2014.08.28 13:48:00 - [389] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Dj grammer wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I'm with you John: I'm somewhat confused by the most recent postings about removing the side arm from the Amarr. The last indepth discussion I had with Rattatti on the forums moved towards the tier equalization and 2 logis with sidearms AMR and CAL. But, as Arkena Wyrnspire said, wait and see. @RKKR: Your idea about infinite equipment with cool down periods is unique to me, i've never heard it, and we should throw it out there during the delta patch discussions. I like the initial idea... I'll take some time and think on it, what problems do you see with it? Equipment spam if the cooldown time is not sufficient enough. AND usher in a possible era of Slayer Logis 2.0. People will attempt to use them to kill people and when they need ammo, just lay down a compact nanohive, over and over and over again.... Or an Allotek.... Or a combo Ishukone with a Wyrkomi...... And compound it with uplinks? Equipment spam to the max. Uplink and hive spam would be at it's worst. More laggy matches with more frame dropping and rubberbanding. Just no. Slayer Logis have been nerfed to the ground since I want to say between 1.6 and 1.8. You just do not see people running around slaying in logi suits ever since scouts and heavys received a boost and not too long ago all assaults received a boost. I find myself playing assault more than any other suit I own and I'm a Prototype Minmatar Logi with all my Equipment prototype level being a LogiBro. Honestly assaults have a HP and Gun advantage over the Logis now when I think about it. An example would be comparing the pg/cpu between a prototype assault and logi suit from Minmatar assuming cores are maxed (which in my case they are). assault: 515 CPU 85 PG Starting eHP 481. logistics: 512 CPU 102 PG Starting eHP 300. I would rather slay people in a suit that starts out with more eHP (but different factors play for me like speed) because you can fit less modules for health and turn them into other modules like damage modifiers, kin cats, card regs, and much more. While being aware that this may bring them back in your case, I highly do not see that happening again especially with the equipment nerf along with racial bonuses preventing so (recall that Minmatar Logi had 5% bonus to hacking per level along with inane +1 armor repair rate per level. They have changed that in hopes of lowering the slayers in Logi fits count which in terms it did.). Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3925	Posted - 2014.08.28 14:11:00 - [390] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Dj grammer wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I'm with you John: I'm somewhat confused by the most recent postings about removing the side arm from the Amarr. The last indepth discussion I had with Rattatti on the forums moved towards the tier equalization and 2 logis with sidearms AMR and CAL. But, as Arkena Wyrnspire said, wait and see. @RKKR: Your idea about infinite equipment with cool down periods is unique to me, i've never heard it, and we should throw it out there during the delta patch discussions. I like the initial idea... I'll take some time and think on it, what problems do you see with it? Equipment spam if the cooldown time is not sufficient enough. AND usher in a possible era of Slayer Logis 2.0. People will attempt to use them to kill people and when they need ammo, just lay down a compact nanohive, over and over and over again.... Or an Allotek.... Or a combo Ishukone with a Wyrkomi...... And compound it with uplinks? Equipment spam to the max. Uplink and hive spam would be at it's worst. More laggy matches with more frame dropping and rubberbanding. Just no. Somehow I doubt RKKR intended it to be unlimited, he never struck me as a spam monkey. And, honestly, with the current logi suits, even if you gave me the ability to drop 4-5 alloteks over a few minute span (one would assume the cooldown would at minimum be like standard consule hack time), it's not gonna rep me through a burst HMG. Or Minmando with a MD. Or a scout with REs. Or anyone else with a flux grenade and an ACR. Even in an Amarr suit, I don't have enough of an armor pool to tank it out. Plus, once we gotta move somewhere else, I'm gonna lag way behind and get picked off. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 654	Posted - 2014.08.29 21:04:00 - [391] - Quote Unlimited equipment: even regulated to a certain number per time limit I agree that equipment spam would take over. Now nearly every class could spam as well and never worry about running out of ammo or rephiving just before a fight. That said, I would like the logis to carry a +1 to the disposable equipment. For bonuses I do like John Demonbane's bonus solution - but also along with that note there is a current CPM discussion with CROSS ATU about what to do with the logi. Bonuses, Stat adjustments, etc. I suggest you all check it out if you haven't done so already - I've seen a few of you there already, really good stuff. It is nice to have a Logi on our side in the CPM Link The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 547	Posted - 2014.08.31 10:17:00 - [392] - Quote Dat shield replenishing needle. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 581	Posted - 2014.09.05 06:55:00 - [393] - Quote Friendly Bump Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4228	Posted - 2014.10.21 20:17:00 - [394] - Quote Needs more bump. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4743	Posted - 2014.10.28 14:16:00 - [395] - Quote When to Stick-em, and when to let em die Once upon a time a Medic was able to revive a patient whether the patient wanted to be revived or not, and during much of that time the Nanite Injector only restored armour, reviving the patient with no shields. It was quite common for incompetent or unscrupulous medics to revive patients in front of the same enemy who put them down the first time, only to have the patient be killed again before they had even gained full control of their clone. As you can imagine this was very frustrating for the patient, particularly if the medic did it repeatedly to farm war points. But even after Patch 1.9 gave patients the right to die, restricting revives to only those who request them, there is still a responsibility on the part of the medic to determine the safety of the revive. Remember, the patient has a very limited field of view and may not be able to accurately assess the revival risk themselves. If the patient does not have a reasonable chance of surviving long enough to get to cover or get back into the fight, then it is irresponsible and unprofessional to attempt to revive them. Ways to increase your patientGÇÖs chances for survival: -Eliminate the threat: Identify what killed the patient. If they were shot, find the shooter and kill them, or make them retreat. -Mitigate the threat: Make the shooter take cover. Return to laying down cover fire as soon as you finish performing the revive. -Blocking the threat: You can place yourself between your patient and the threat (if you are at full health), and strafe a bit to throw off the enemies aim. (This is risky!) If you have a Heavy in the squad you may get them to act as a meat shield until the patient is back on their feet. -Use better Nanite Injectors: Nanite Injectors restore the following health per tier: 30% at Militia/Standard (commonly called GÇ£dirty needlesGÇ¥), 50% at Advanced, 80% at Proto, and 100% for the best Factional Warfare Nanite Injectors. Reviving a patient is a much higher priority in an Ambush match which is won or lost on clone count. It can also become a higher priority in Skirmish or Domination matches if your teamGÇÖs clone count is getting dangerously low. In these situations the threshold for acceptable risk to your patient is much higher, and one or two failed attempts might be acceptable if you can eventually save the clone. Conversely the threshold for acceptable risk for you is greatly reduced, as losing your own clone in a foolish attempt to save another will only hurt your team. For this reason, you should avoid blocking in these circumstances unless you believe you have a good chance of success. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 792	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:15:00 - [396] - Quote Great write up Fox. Also, John, be sure to update about Active Scanners and the buff we receive with it in 1.9. Logistics with Active Scanners provide intel to the entire team instead of to just the squad. Squad Active Scans are still retained when using an Assault, Commando, or Scout suit however. (I'm sure you can word it better than I can.) Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4281	Posted - 2014.10.28 15:46:00 - [397] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Great write up Fox. Also, John, be sure to update about Active Scanners and the buff we receive with it in 1.9. Logistics with Active Scanners provide intel to the entire team instead of to just the squad. Squad Active Scans are still retained when using an Assault, Commando, or Scout suit however. (I'm sure you can word it better than I can.) Agreed. Well put, Fox. Kaze: I'm actually not sure if RedBleach plays much anymore because we are no longer in the same alliance, but it's his thread and I can't make any changes to it. I actually never skilled past 3 in scanners either because they went immediately from being OP at ADV to being nearly useless at proto so I'm not the right person to ask. We'll see how things go with Dust development (not to mention my ever-increasing professional responsibilities IRL) but if RedBleach is no longer around, I can probably be convinced to write up the changes to injectors (may as well add rep tools) separately, those are fairly simple to do the background/mechanics and just add a few techniques to flesh it out. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 794	Posted - 2014.10.28 16:45:00 - [398] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: Great write up Fox. Also, John, be sure to update about Active Scanners and the buff we receive with it in 1.9. Logistics with Active Scanners provide intel to the entire team instead of to just the squad. Squad Active Scans are still retained when using an Assault, Commando, or Scout suit however. (I'm sure you can word it better than I can.) Agreed. Well put, Fox. Kaze: I'm actually not sure if RedBleach plays much anymore because we are no longer in the same alliance - LOI fell apart and he's in GTA now, so you'd know better than I would; but it's his thread and I can't make any changes to it. I actually never skilled past 3 in scanners either because they went immediately from being OP at ADV to being nearly useless at proto so I'm not even the right person to ask. Scan profile always seemed like alchemy to me, lol. We'll see how things go with Dust development (not to mention my ever-increasing professional responsibilities IRL) but if RedBleach is no longer around, I can probably be convinced to write up the changes to injectors (may as well add rep tools) separately, those are fairly simple to do the background/mechanics and just add a few techniques to flesh it out. Yeah, fixed that little mistake. Got Redbleach and you confused and didn't double check. Lol. Corrected. As for Active Scanners, I got it to level 5 as soon as they came out and was thoroughly impressed by them. When they did nerf them I was still one of the few people who used them. (SirManBoy also used them to devastating effect, using a Logi gk.0 with 2 or 3 scanners.) To allow Logistics to bring intel to the entire team again is a welcome change that I can't wait for. Scan profile is something I was constantly looking over running my scouts, trying to both detect and hide from scans. Even before that, when Active Scans came out, I ran Profile Damps on my suit just to avoid scans. I'm constantly crunching number because while I'm not the best killer out there, you can be sure I will try to provide as much intel, support, and logistical work for my team. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1052	Posted - 2014.10.30 16:33:00 - [399] - Quote Great write up, Fox. I always tried to be a good medic because I got way more points out of my rep tool than my injector ever gave me, but I have to say I've also encountered the 'roid-rage random' who was in front of a 4 man fire team and did nothing but yell at me to save his proto suit. Teamwork. Let's use it better. :) Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 664	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:37:00 - [400] - Quote Still here :) Just got back, but still here. I am saddened that I missed the Feedback and Input possibilities for the 1.9 Update and the new APEX Logi options. I've picked up one and am scanning the others to see what might be fun. I was disappointed that there were Zer0 Quafe logistic suits. But happy with the respec - I bought 2. One so that I can play with soooo many options I didn't have the chance to explore earlier, and Two so I can level what I should when I find those options I like the best. But I am here now and am educating myself on some of these new changes before jumping into the feedback discussions. I have emphasized some of the changes that came around with 1.9 (scanners, needles, etc.) and truly I await a shift in the logistics class, but until then I will be on and off the battlefields as life permits. PS - never went the GTA way, but I did come back and Hellstorm was GONE! I like the guys but it is ghost-town in there :) Maybe I'll check the site and see if they have broken up or just moved on to Destiny or some game like that. So.... any suggestions where an old logi might fit in? The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS

Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 917	Posted - 2014.11.13 02:27:00 - [401] - Quote Currently, Min Logi is still the king of being the Logibro. The Gal Logi is a good alternative, although you may be weighted heavily down by armor plates while the biggest passive you get from Gal is scan precision on Actives. Amarr is ok for laying down uplinks and giving bonuses to them, but they lose it when you are dead or if you change suits (as such, I see them more of a rearline supporter; there are some that use the Amarr well though, but you won't see me finding such luck). Arguably, the Cal Logi is still the worst: they give a small increase to Nanohive supply and repair rates and boost the nanite clusters. However, it's extremely small and these bonuses go away once you die, similar to the Amarr Logistics. The only retribution it has is the fact it has the most module slots at 5H 4L. But even then, a slot might need to have a CPU upgrade which many people who run Logi ck.0 have told me. I did manage to build a great regen fit for one however, stacking 4 shield extenders, an energizer, regulators and a armor rep allowed me to repair a 600+ HP tank in 20 seconds (both shields and armor). Basically, the ck.0 continues to be a good Battle Logi. Minus a flux / high alpha weapon combo (shotgun/RE) that could chew you to bits. TL;DR: Min Logis are the best (IMO) and continue to be the best LogiBro as well as most versatile. Gal Logis are a good second to that and are vital to scanning dampened scouts. Amarr Logi is the uplink logi on one hand and Battle Logi on the other (sidearm). Arguable best for vehicle HAV or DS/ADS pilots. Cal Logi is the Battle (or maybe a better term is regenerative) Logi (hive bonus still laughable). I noticed Rattati indirectly booted up discussion about Logis in this thread with this spreadsheet. On it was a possible proposal to homogenize the Logi layout and balance it a bit. Mind you, that didn't mean homogenize the bonuses either. More than anything, it would probably make Logis resemble High and Low slots numbers more closely to their Assault counterparts. I was not too happy with 2 equipment at Standard level. However what did everyone raise hell about? The Sidearm on the Amarr suit. And with it, the Logi changes and revisions were delayed from Charlie to Delta. Cross Atu, being awesome, started a thread asking for input about Logistics and Support. Currently, it's now hit 49 page. (I already chimed in) As for now, I'm sure they are still battling it out for Logis and LogiBros and trying to prevent a Slayer Logi 2.0 era. Seeing how Rattati and LogiBro (heh) have gone silent on any Logistics changes, we may be safe for the time being... Or we may wake up tomorrow with a surprise Dev Blog about a Logistics revamp. What I mean to say is, I think making at least minor tweaks for 1.9 would be beneficial to the guide, such as Active Scanners provide intel to the entire team. Can't think of anything else, but I'll post in another reply if there is anything to make note of. (Still looking good btw) Not getting the APEX suits (Aurum variant) but I am grinding my way toward a shiny Republic 'Shaman' Logistics! Can't wait! CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou CIO ("Proto Forum Warrior") Learning Coalition & RTG
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 919	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:13:00 - [402] - Quote Just looked over the guide again and found something things needing revision: Change in the game: Rail Rifle dispersion. The part about Rail Rifles eating people up in CQC... it can still happen but is VERY unlikely now as the dispersion has been raised significantly. People that I engage that have the Rail Rifle, and I get in CQC, now tend to switch to their sidearm to fight me. On a logi, equipping one may mean death if an enemy gets into close quarters with you. May require investigation to determine how viable it is for Logis with no sidearm. Change in the game: Skills on new characters (Choosing your weapon section). With skills being automatically applied to some core skills, the new player no longer starts with a blank skill tree. Skills are automatically given to players (I believe it's Dropsuit Upgrades 1, Weaponry 1, and Dropsuit Command 1?) with a wallet starting balance of only 25,000 ISK. I believe this was to stave off the funding of character mains using a fresh 500,000 ISK wallet on an alt, delete, rinse and repeat. Giving new players beginning skills, however, not only is reimbursement of the lowered ISK wallet, but points players in the right direction toward starting skills. The downside of this though is now we can't create alts to specialize into weapons to test like your guide suggests. :( Change in the game: Nanite Injectors. Specifically in the section "Recommended Skill increases once at Proto level:" Two of note, one of which I link in an earlier post on this page or the last page where the Nanite Injector now replenishes armor and shields. You talk about it toward the end of the guide, but under the section I quoted, that part still only mentions the needle giving just armor. The second one in which Fox covered above: Nanite Injectors can only be used on people who Call for Help. The first change is an obvious buff while the second has been debated on. For myself, I see it as a buff because: 1) People can choose whether they want to be revived. 2) I'm no longer putting myself in harms way trying to revive a person who doesn't want to be revived in the first place. 3) Lowers the chance of the false positive icon bug. Sure I'm not getting as much +60 Revives as much, but it was never meant to be a WP farming tactic. It was meant to save your teams clone count for the match as well as saving the victim's suit inherently saving them ISK. Furthermore, this prevents death statistic grief-ing in FW matches (continuously teamkilling and reviving someone deliberately to rack up deaths on a friendly target. Typing error?: "Secondaries for You [/b](you selfish kitten - but recommended) " That's all I've seen! Great work on all this by the way! CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou CIO ("Proto Forum Warrior") Learning Coalition & RTG
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 1054	Posted - 2014.11.13 18:19:00 - [403] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Sure I'm not getting as much +60 Revives as much, but it was never meant to be a WP farming tactic. It was meant to save your teams clone count for the match as well as saving the victim's suit inherently saving them ISK. I'm actually incredibly surprised how well this is working out. I expected this change to completely remove the injector from being a viable option but I'm seeing way more requests than I ever expected and on top of that, way more better needles being used. It's actually refreshing. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 667	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:39:00 - [404] - Quote Thank you all for the updates and specifically a big thank you to Kaze Eyrou for reviewing all of that with me. I believe I have added it all to the guide. I am thinking of re-organinzing it a bit and I may need to contact CCP for some added area in order to cut and past and rework it a bit.... I don't know if that is possible. Or it would be time to start a new LogiCode thread... which I am reticent to do. There is just so much good stuff here, and so much heart. Or maybe I should pass the torch... have I been away to long? Can I come back and be as committed to Dust as I was before? Or have I lost that naivete, the sweet innocence and belief in this world? This is what keeps me up at night :) after playing of course. And I to am now on the FW path. Looking at the suits I crave the Amarr. All of them. That will take some time. I hope the offer will be up for a while. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4529	Posted - 2014.11.13 22:10:00 - [405] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thank you all for the updates and specifically a big thank you to Kaze Eyrou for reviewing all of that with me. I believe I have added it all to the guide. I am thinking of re-organinzing it a bit and I may need to contact CCP for some added area in order to cut and past and rework it a bit.... I don't know if that is possible. Or it would be time to start a new LogiCode thread... which I am reticent to do. There is just so much good stuff here, and so much heart. Or maybe I should pass the torch... have I been away to long? Can I come back and be as committed to Dust as I was before? Or have I lost that naivete, the sweet innocence and belief in this world? This is what keeps me up at night :) after playing of course. And I to am now on the FW path. Looking at the suits I crave the Amarr. All of them. That will take some time. I hope the offer will be up for a while. Excellent, the Empire can always use more experienced soldiers. So I will be seeing you in PIE GC now? (I unsubscribed from the Djinn channel 2 weeks ago, it's been dead for a while, but LOI PC gets some people here and there.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 923	Posted - 2014.11.14 02:05:00 - [406] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thank you all for the updates and specifically a big thank you to Kaze Eyrou for reviewing all of that with me. I believe I have added it all to the guide. I am thinking of re-organinzing it a bit and I may need to contact CCP for some added area in order to cut and past and rework it a bit.... I don't know if that is possible. Or it would be time to start a new LogiCode thread... which I am reticent to do. There is just so much good stuff here, and so much heart. Or maybe I should pass the torch... have I been away to long? Can I come back and be as committed to Dust as I was before? Or have I lost that naivete, the sweet innocence and belief in this world? This is what keeps me up at night :) after playing of course. Here would be my suggestion: if the Devs or GMs are unable to open posts in between posts to grant you more room, I would create a new thread, reference this thread, and lock this one. Here's the reasoning: First off, this is your guide that you put a lot (and from the looks of it, A LOT) of time and effort into it. However, if there isn't a way to open up posts between posts for you to add and expand content. This ultimately means you would have to open a new thread. In that thread however, there's nothing to prevent yourself from referencing your old thread to show you are the Logi Code's original creator. On top of that, there's nothing preventing you from copypasta all your old work and modifying it; in fact, now you have an old and new copy of the Logi Code to show the history of how far the game has come! As for locking the old one, it would prevent confusion of new players (which Logi Code would be which?) and prevents people from necrobumping it. Further, I've seen Fox Gaiden ask to unlock threads me made and CCP Frame has unlocked them which leaves me to believe that a good guide which you are the creator of can be unlocked by your request if you wanted to. RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: And I to am now on the FW path. Looking at the suits I crave the Amarr. All of them. That will take some time. I hope the offer will be up for a while. John Demonsbane wrote: Excellent, the Empire can always use more experienced soldiers. Looks like we shall be sharing drinks as friends in the Warbarge and finding each other in our gunsights in the battlefield, as I am involved in Minmatar FW, striving to get my 'Shaman' suit. See you both on the battlefield! CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou CIO ("Proto Forum Warrior") Learning Coalition & RTG
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 678	Posted - 2014.11.16 04:51:00 - [407] - Quote It has been months but I really want to hear some news from CPM or DEV on the progression of Logis. REALLY want some word. But that is hard to come by. I await word from Cross Atu... but I want it now, it is the weekend and my mind is reaching out to nostalgic hopes from dreaming memories. ... ... I will wait. Like the iron soldiers that eternally watch from the walls of the empire. I watch... and I wait. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
Dj grammer G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2015.02.09 03:22:00 - [408] - Quote Severe Bump *Logi mk.0, Assault mk.0, Soon to be Scout gk.0 or ck.0*
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 1924	Posted - 2015.02.09 17:24:00 - [409] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: Severe Bump Hockey check CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 733	Posted - 2015.02.20 20:35:00 - [410] - Quote I've Been holding off on remaking this thing in the hopes of seeing some changes to logis, but I see now that I should just do it anyway and readjust it with possible future changes. My apologies for the delay my friends The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower

Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 42	Posted - 2015.02.26 06:07:00 - [411] - Quote So I've somewhat came back to Dust514. Saw that I downright sucked with the Rail Rifle and decided to switch to the only other weapon I'm skilled in, Assault Rifles. With that said I am curious about my module selection's adequacy as a MinLogi. Got a Complex Armor Repair, Complex Armor Plates, Complex PG Upgrade, and Enhanced CPU upgrade for low slots. My High Slots are 2 Complex Light Weapon Damage Mods and 2 Complex Shield Extenders. Edit: Ok so looking back on it since I would only ever use my Proto gear in High-stake matches (Planetary Conquest) the question should be what's the focus module wise? While damage mods let me deal more damage it means little if the enemy tears into in less than 2 seconds. What sort of modules should I dedicate my slots to as for my fits on all three tiers? We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
Taeyeon Seyun Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.02.27 09:29:00 - [412] - Quote Hello. I am new to the game, and after doing some research I decided on walking the path of Logi. I was wondering if there was a Logi channel in game. Where I can ask questions I may have. I look foward to learning and growing as a player, so I can be a reliable teammate and friend. This is a wonderful and informative thread. Thank you. :)
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 2037	Posted - 2015.02.27 10:26:00 - [413] - Quote Taeyeon Seyun wrote: Hello. I am new to the game, and after doing some research I decided on walking the path of Logi. I was wondering if there was a Logi channel in game. Where I can ask questions I may have. I look foward to learning and growing as a player, so I can be a reliable teammate and friend. This is a wonderful and informative thread. Thank you. :) There is no Logi channel I know of, however you are free to join the Learning Coalition channel. It's a channel that I'm apart of which has an environment of new players and vets alike with the intention of helping players with any questions they might have. To join, simply bring up the communications window, select "Create/Join Channel", and type "Learning Coalition". Welcome in advance and should you find me, I'll gladly help out with any questions you have about the game. :) CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Taeyeon Seyun Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.02.27 10:30:00 - [414] - Quote Thank you. I will join the channel when I log in later today.
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 42	Posted - 2015.03.20 23:21:00 - [415] - Quote Was looking over the guide and noticed it didn't mention how the facing of those spawning on an uplink is determined by the direction one is facing when deploying that uplink. The time it takes for someone to turn around from facing a corner when spawning is more than enough time for them to get gunned down. Also recommend against using uplinks in ambush. Just sets your team up as targets in a shooting gallery. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 780	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:42:00 - [416] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: So I've somewhat came back to Dust514. Saw that I downright sucked with the Rail Rifle and decided to switch to the only other weapon I'm skilled in, Assault Rifles. With that said I am curious about my module selection's adequacy as a MinLogi. Got a Complex Armor Repair, Complex Armor Plates, Complex PG Upgrade, and Enhanced CPU upgrade for low slots. My High Slots are 2 Complex Light Weapon Damage Mods and 2 Complex Shield Extenders. Edit: Ok so looking back on it since I would only ever use my Proto gear in High-stake matches (Planetary Conquest) the question should be what's the focus module wise? While damage mods let me deal more damage it means little if the enemy tears into in less than 2 seconds. What sort of modules should I dedicate my slots to as for my fits on all three tiers? The path of the logi is difficult if you are equipped to fight as an assault. Generally the slots on logis should be filled for Defense and not offense. The meta has been creating a shorter time to kill again. A logis base stats are paper-thin. Start OVER. Fill Modules, then Equipment, Then Weapon and Grenade. Prioritize defense, maybe some speed. 1st. Highs fill up on some shields. 2nd Lows. Depending on how you play and if you often find cover, Consider a regulator. BUT Complex Armor Plate is ill advised, the penalty is too great and the fitting cost a bit too much when Enhanced Armor plate is just slightly below that. 1 armor and 1 rep is the minimum. Fill how however you want after that. 3rd. Consider 2 Pro Equipment and then fill in what you can after your first two choices. With the other changes that could mean adv or basic gear. Skills are most often sufficient enough for good fits that PG or CPU mods should be rarely used. My question is then what tier of weapon and grenade you are using. Here is where we sacrifice as we can. We must shoot and kill, but other classes are more gifted at that. Use a decent weapon, but that is should not be the focus of your build. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 43	Posted - 2015.03.24 00:56:00 - [417] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [quote=Soulskulptor]So I've somewhat came back to Dust514. Saw that I downright sucked with the Rail Rifle and decided to switch to the only other weapon I'm skilled in, Assault Rifles. With that said I am curious about my module selection's adequacy as a MinLogi. Got a Complex Armor Repair, Complex Armor Plates, Complex PG Upgrade, and Enhanced CPU upgrade for low slots. My High Slots are 2 Complex Light Weapon Damage Mods and 2 Complex Shield Extenders. Edit: Ok so looking back on it since I would only ever use my Proto gear in High-stake matches (Planetary Conquest) the question should be what's the focus module wise? While damage mods let me deal more damage it means little if the enemy tears into in less than 2 seconds. What sort of modules should I dedicate my slots to as for my fits on all three tiers? The path of the logi is difficult if you are equipped to fight as an assault. Generally the slots on logis should be filled for Defense and not offense. The meta has been creating a shorter time to kill again. A logis base stats are paper-thin. Start OVER. Fill Modules, then Equipment, Then Weapon and Grenade. Prioritize defense, maybe some speed. 1st. Highs fill up on some shields. 2nd Lows. Depending on how you play and if you often find cover, Consider a regulator. BUT Complex Armor Plate is ill advised, the penalty is too great and the fitting cost a bit too much when Enhanced Armor plate is just slightly below that. 1 armor and 1 rep is the minimum. Fill how however you want after that. 3rd. Consider 2 Pro Equipment and then fill in what you can after your first two choices. With the other changes that could mean adv or basic gear. Skills are most often sufficient enough for good fits that PG or CPU mods should be rarely used. My question is then what tier of weapon and grenade you are using. Here is where we sacrifice as we can. We must shoot and kill, but other classes are more gifted at that. Use a decent weapon, but that is should not be the focus of your build. Here is a creative build. using Reactive Plates, it has decent armor, rep rate, and good shields for general play. This is the fit I got: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/648/12215 This fit I did after talking to some guys about my fit, said to drop the 2 dmg mods for a shield extender and a precision enhancer, also suggested the Breach Assault Rifle for it's high dmg per shot. With your advice I would swap down to basic breach assault and locus grenade and drop the pg and cpu upgrades for a pair of complex Shield Regulators. Complex armor plates downgraded to enhanced. Much cheaper fit, gonna have to see how it performs...when I get my shield regulator skill to lvl 5 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/1943/12641 We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
John Demonsbane Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 5139	Posted - 2015.03.24 02:44:00 - [418] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: Was looking over the guide and noticed it didn't mention how the facing of those spawning on an uplink is determined by the direction one is facing when deploying that uplink. The time it takes for someone to turn around from facing a corner when spawning is more than enough time for them to get gunned down. Also recommend against using uplinks in ambush. Just sets your team up as targets in a shooting gallery. Just happened to be on for my bimonthly "has anything changed? No? Ok carry on then" forum check. The information you seek is elsewhere. (By which I mean my signature). As an aside, admittedly this seems to be the minority opinion among Logis on the forums, but Ive found that uplinks can be used quite effectively in ambush so long as you resist the temptation to drop them within the first 30-60 seconds or anywhere within 100m of the original spawn point. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 781	Posted - 2015.03.24 23:02:00 - [419] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [quote=Soulskulptor]So I've somewhat came back to Dust514. Saw that I downright sucked with the Rail Rifle and decided to switch to the only other weapon I'm skilled in, Assault Rifles. With that said I am curious about my module selection's adequacy as a MinLogi. Got a Complex Armor Repair, Complex Armor Plates, Complex PG Upgrade, and Enhanced CPU upgrade for low slots. My High Slots are 2 Complex Light Weapon Damage Mods and 2 Complex Shield Extenders. Edit: Ok so looking back on it since I would only ever use my Proto gear in High-stake matches (Planetary Conquest) the question should be what's the focus module wise? While damage mods let me deal more damage it means little if the enemy tears into in less than 2 seconds. What sort of modules should I dedicate my slots to as for my fits on all three tiers? The path of the logi is difficult if you are equipped to fight as an assault. Generally the slots on logis should be filled for Defense and not offense. The meta has been creating a shorter time to kill again. A logis base stats are paper-thin. Start OVER. Fill Modules, then Equipment, Then Weapon and Grenade. Prioritize defense, maybe some speed. 1st. Highs fill up on some shields. 2nd Lows. Depending on how you play and if you often find cover, Consider a regulator. BUT Complex Armor Plate is ill advised, the penalty is too great and the fitting cost a bit too much when Enhanced Armor plate is just slightly below that. 1 armor and 1 rep is the minimum. Fill how however you want after that. 3rd. Consider 2 Pro Equipment and then fill in what you can after your first two choices. With the other changes that could mean adv or basic gear. Skills are most often sufficient enough for good fits that PG or CPU mods should be rarely used. My question is then what tier of weapon and grenade you are using. Here is where we sacrifice as we can. We must shoot and kill, but other classes are more gifted at that. Use a decent weapon, but that is should not be the focus of your build. Here is a creative build. using Reactive Plates, it has decent armor, rep rate, and good shields for general play. This is the fit I got: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/648/12215 This fit I did after talking to some guys about my fit, said to drop the 2 dmg mods for a shield extender and a precision enhancer, also suggested the Breach Assault Rifle for it's high dmg per shot. With your advice I would swap down to basic breach assault and locus grenade and drop the pg and cpu upgrades for a pair of complex Shield Regulators. Complex armor plates downgraded to enhanced. Much cheaper fit, gonna have to see how it performs...when I get my shield regulator skill to lvl 5 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/1943/12641 Hold, before you commit to the regulators or Basic Breach. What I am trying to say is to prioritize your fit. and build to the strengths of the suit. Precision mod may help, try it out. For your lows: Make three fits. Test the regulator x2. then test filling the 2 slots openings with 1 regulator/1 armor and then test 2 armor. You will find which one suits you better. You may even find that a fit with 1 red bottle, 2 armor, and 1 repair works well. NEXT: Proto repper, and 1 other proto item. Hive, Needle, scanner, or drop uplink. Then leave the other two at the ADV level. LAST: Pick a weapon you are comfortable with. AR and the CR are solid choices. But if you are not used to the burst fire it may not help to have a weapon that does more damage. On a proto fit I usually run with an ADV weapon if I'm running with a squad and a basic if running with a heavy - my choice, not a rule. Proto is expensive. You will need different builds for different situations. 'My Chubby Chaser: 4 Shields Complex to ADV - sacrifice as needed 3 Armor, 1 repper - I will go complex because I will be just as fast as my heavy 3 EQ - Pro rep Tool, Pro Needle, Pro-ADV Ammo. Weapon is Basic or ADV rifle. - I need to scare off enemies or finish them off if my heavy is downed. Basic Flux grenade. - tears apart the re's and eq that we will come accross, and those RE's down a heavy quick. Depending on my weapon I will have to sacrifice a pro shield or armor for the ADV version. My Regular Proto fit for running with a team: 3-4 shields, sometimes 1 random mod like the precision module 2 plate - 1-2 rep or 1 rep and 1 regulator or random EQ: Proto repper - two streamer, ADV Needle, Adv Hives, and Scanner or uplink Adv or basic weapon. Flux nades. Eagle Eye 4 precision 4 Range Pro rep, rep hive, basic to militia stuff. Weapon i whatever I can fit that is cheap Suit is paper thin but sees for miles :) and with a decent squad I'll still lose it 3 times - very spendy. There is room to play, just play to your strengths and have some fun. Like an eagle eye suit or a hacking suit or completely dampened suit. While there is no set 'right way' most of the suggestions are spot on. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 781	Posted - 2015.03.24 23:06:00 - [420] - Quote In addition - don't always run proto! or even All Proto equipment -that is just too expensive. On all my solo play fits I will run a basic BPO fit with one exception - adv or pro reptool for minmatar. A step above that is a BPO with only ADV modules and still a pro tool, dirty needle or 50% needle and militia hives. Logis get hit in the pocket book more than any other class - be sure to make some cheap but effective fits. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower

CaveCav Eliters Brotherhood 332	Posted - 2015.03.25 16:49:00 - [421] - Quote I usually run this fit: Logistics M-1 2x ADV Shield Extenders 2x Complex Reactive Plates BK42 Assault CR Flux ADV Needle ADV Scanner ADV Triage Rep Tool It's pretty ISK-efficent at about 40k and gets the work done. At the moment I'm torn between skilling into another Logi suit (Amarr looks pretty sexy to me) or going for a Heavy suit instead (leaning towards the Caldari). I already have a Min Assault and Commando and Scout is not really my thing. Any advices? Logibro and Counter-Sniper Punch me and ammo comes out!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 785	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:21:00 - [422] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I usually run this fit: Logistics M-1 2x ADV Shield Extenders 2x Complex Reactive Plates BK42 Assault CR Flux ADV Needle ADV Scanner ADV Triage Rep Tool It's pretty ISK-efficent at about 40k and gets the work done. At the moment I'm torn between skilling into another Logi suit (Amarr looks pretty sexy to me) or going for a Heavy suit instead (leaning towards the Caldari). I already have a Min Assault and Commando and Scout is not really my thing. Any advices? Solid LOGI Build I played Caldari Heavy - it is a run and gun. But with the majority of weapons dealing shield damage it disappears rather quickly, and unless they are depleted the recharge is not that 1 sec delay that is so appealing. I feel it needed another High or low slot. I know it doesn't match the setups but I found it lacking in survival simply because I need just 1 more Shield item - regulator, recharger/energizer, or shield extender. The recharge was still a little slow, I think that if there was a logi tool that would repair shields in some way it would be more on an even playing field. and have a bit more staying power. But for a run and gun - if you could move about - it was fun. Amarr logi - be prepared to run advanced suits. The standard has only 2 EQ slots and never fully feels like a logi until you take that step to the ADV level. So, a bit more spendy. Always have a drop uplink - It is this logi's specialty. It has a bit more staying power and the side arm does allow for some AV support builds IFF you can get by on a side arm. Otherwise you cans still have a LZR and a side arm - so it is a light assault in some cases with all the stat setbacks of a logi. It does need and extra slot though. - different argument. In truth the Amarr and Minmatar are my favorites. Gallente is a solid suit, I just dislike the bonus. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RolyatDerTeufel 1820	Posted - 2015.04.01 00:20:00 - [423] - Quote RedBleach = Best Bleach If you're Logi, this is the thread to read. Twitch.TV Live Stream YouTube Channel
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 785	Posted - 2015.04.01 19:36:00 - [424] - Quote Appreciate the faith brother :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 800	Posted - 2015.04.28 20:54:00 - [425] - Quote Updated. Haven't gone over Skins though. When the Logi changes finally arrive we may need to move this thread. I already had to cut the Amarr Skill Suggestions :( The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
lee corwood Knights Of Ender 1227	Posted - 2015.05.03 16:27:00 - [426] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I usually run this fit: Logistics M-1 2x ADV Shield Extenders 2x Complex Reactive Plates BK42 Assault CR Flux ADV Needle ADV Scanner ADV Triage Rep Tool It's pretty ISK-efficent at about 40k and gets the work done. At the moment I'm torn between skilling into another Logi suit (Amarr looks pretty sexy to me) or going for a Heavy suit instead (leaning towards the Caldari). I already have a Min Assault and Commando and Scout is not really my thing. Any advices? (So I'm only a few months late answering this but...) That's a great fitting. Unless you intend to jump feet first into PC, I wouldn't worry about skilling into the other logis. I have 3 logis at proto, but my every day pub suit is always Min. The others and their bonuses just never appealed or helped my team as much as min does in regular pubs. In contrast to what Red said, my corpmate loved his Cal Sent because he could solo. Once skilled up, his regen was so strong, I almost never needed to repair him. BUT, it's not a stay and play suit. It's a gun and run away immediately suit, so if that is not your play style, you might want to dabble in something else. I love my proto min assault and commando. The assault has ridiculous stamina regen and the Commando takes down tanks like butter. I hated scout at first, but once I skilled into them, they were much more fun than I expected. I do not run a cloak. I actually perform much better when I'm not constantly distracted on my timer. The trick to actually starting to like a Scout is always having an exit plan. "I'm going to jump around the corner and try for a headshot BUT if that doesn't work, I can just fall off this ledge and come around to try something else.". Not having that mindset sets you up for a lot of anger. But your movement/strafe speed + ability to have a long range powerful weapon + tacnet intel, make it a very powerful tool. Now, if you really find it's not your thing, don't push it. I personally wanted to be a heavy. So bad. SO BAD. But every time I pull out that suit I'm reminded of how horrible of a heavy I am. There is some skillset there that I just don't know how to use, no matter how much I try or how much 'mentoring' my team gave me. So if you have that same thing with scouts, don't think you're missing out. Knights of Ender Director Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 452	Posted - 2015.05.03 21:31:00 - [427] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I usually run this fit: Logistics M-1 2x ADV Shield Extenders 2x Complex Reactive Plates BK42 Assault CR Flux ADV Needle ADV Scanner ADV Triage Rep Tool It's pretty ISK-efficent at about 40k and gets the work done. At the moment I'm torn between skilling into another Logi suit (Amarr looks pretty sexy to me) or going for a Heavy suit instead (leaning towards the Caldari). I already have a Min Assault and Commando and Scout is not really my thing. Any advices? If you needed a bit more survivability, a 'medic' version of this fit (i.e. not a full Logi) could include dropping the scanner and upgrading the shields to complex. Professional Logibro and avid AVer -- I support my team for the ISK, but I blow up vehicles for the LOLz.
Dj grammer G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 395	Posted - 2015.05.13 14:59:00 - [428] - Quote Bump *Logi mk.0, Assault mk.0, Soon to be Scout gk.0 or ck.0*
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 810	Posted - 2015.05.14 22:11:00 - [429] - Quote Currently there have been some postings by Ratatti that he is reviewing dropsuit slot flattening. Not exactly Tierecide, but very close to it. Discussions about maintaining value with BPOs vs Skin Costs, the Apex suits, how to further reduce the draws on PS3 resources continue. And it is all a little exiting. Take it all with a spoonful of salt. Rattati's dedicated CCP is small, already has a lot on their plate, and requires time to pull off these projects... but they are cool :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 815	Posted - 2015.05.16 02:24:00 - [430] - Quote If Any of you play with the Apex suits and have been entertained by the idea of Slot Progression Flattening I have made a small thead that seeks to question the fate of the Apex suit and what may be done in the future. Apex Suits and Slot Progression Solid post that I suggest you check out: Power Cores and Slot Progression Speed to HP ratios The Triage Ward The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower

CaveCav Eliters Brotherhood RUST415 340	Posted - 2015.07.10 07:02:00 - [431] - Quote So many slots...the voice in my head is telling me to fill them all...CCP! what have you done to me!? Logibro and Counter-Sniper Punch me and ammo comes out!
Deacon Obvious Molon Labe. RUST415 63	Posted - 2015.07.10 15:21:00 - [432] - Quote CaveCav wrote: So many slots...the voice in my head is telling me to fill them all...CCP! what have you done to me!? I've been waiting so long for being able to take a G-1 STD Logi out for a spin without feeling like the worst suit in the game. BDR-8 is going to get a work-out with those PG and CPU levels though.
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 48	Posted - 2015.07.10 17:43:00 - [433] - Quote CaveCav wrote: So many slots...the voice in my head is telling me to fill them all...CCP! what have you done to me!? Ya, it can be difficult trying to fill them as you like. apparently you can either fill them all with tier equivalent items or have some empty in favor of items of the next teir. Managed to squeeze some more equipment into the expanded equipment slots for my solologi fit, needed to use a cpu and pg upgrade to do ti but now i can carry advanced uplinks and nanohives. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
CaveCav Eliters Brotherhood RUST415 340	Posted - 2015.07.10 18:39:00 - [434] - Quote I've been doing a lot of tinkering around. I need to use and ADV suit if I want all the slots filled tough. I was starting to forget that suits could have more than 2H and 2L Logibro and Counter-Sniper Punch me and ammo comes out!
RedBleach LeSanglant 0.P. 865	Posted - 2015.07.17 02:30:00 - [435] - Quote Good times though, finally a logi is always a logi and limited by slot progression. Now every logi starts out better with equipment than all other suits.... except for that slight scout glitch of the 3EQ, but that will be remedied soon, if it hasn't already. I'm loving this setup. Definitely harder to set up some of these suits, but I certainly feel more at home with all my EQ's available. Well done CCP, another solid stepping stone. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Soulskulptor GunFall Mobilization 49	Posted - 2015.07.18 00:20:00 - [436] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Good times though, finally a logi is always a logi and limited by slot progression. Now every logi starts out better with equipment than all other suits.... except for that slight scout glitch of the 3EQ, but that will be remedied soon, if it hasn't already. I'm loving this setup. Definitely harder to set up some of these suits, but I certainly feel more at home with all my EQ's available. Well done CCP, another solid stepping stone. I'm enjoying this setup as well, though I've been playing a Galcommando when playing going. We stopped looking for monsters under our beds when we realized they were inside us.
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2015.09.27 19:44:00 - [437] - Quote Making-sure-this-guide-doesn't-get-locked bump. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Vid'na Rokior Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.10.12 21:07:00 - [438] - Quote bump
Ateroith KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 266	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:02:00 - [439] - Quote Assault Code: 1 E Eliminate "...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2015.11.12 20:35:00 - [440] - Quote Bump! CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links

Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.01.03 17:53:00 - [441] - Quote Still-a-great-guide bump. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
RedBleach LeSanglant Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 891	Posted - 2016.01.08 23:10:00 - [442] - Quote Corrected some stats with the suits to conform to the updates No real new sections to create yet. Reviewing to see if some other mechanics have been missed. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.01.16 10:18:00 - [443] - Quote First post, third paragraph under The Role of Support: "There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys." - Chankk Saotome Would it be possible to put that in a quote box? For example: Chankk Saotome wrote: "There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys." Looking over your guide since I finally have time and figured I'd throw some suggestions your way. Also saw you changed the slot layouts on all the suits. Nice job! CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
Kaze Eyrou DUST University Ivy League 3	Posted - 2016.01.16 10:38:00 - [444] - Quote Amarr Logistics: Here's a link to the bug report I made detailing the glitch with the bonus. I also tested with Nanohives for the Caldari suit and it's also affected as well. CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Kaze's Helpful Links
RedBleach LeSanglant Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 896	Posted - 2016.01.21 20:40:00 - [445] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: First post, third paragraph under The Role of Support: "There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys." - Chankk Saotome Would it be possible to put that in a quote box? For example: Chankk Saotome wrote: "There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys." Looking over your guide since I finally have time and figured I'd throw some suggestions your way. Also saw you changed the slot layouts on all the suits. Nice job! EDIT: Another suggestion, just some punctuation/word ideas: Quote: Tactics Change First Understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character you are not to be playing alone. While you should be able to hold your own your role is not as a lone wolf slayer. You are a jack of all trades and the master of 1 or 2. While you will learn make your play style work for you I have found that these insights help. Change to: Quote: Tactics Change First, understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character, you are not to be playing alone. While you should be able to hold your own, your role is not as a lone wolf slayer. You are a jack of all trades and the master of support. While you will learn to make your play style work for you, I have found that these insights help. (<-- What insights?) I tried to bold and underline the small punctuation, but I don't think it shows up well. Let me know if you can't see it. Now that I look further, you talk about "Tactics Change" with play style changes, but then follow up with "Changes in Play". Is there any way to combine them? When reading it, it feels redundant. Also if you don't mind, do you have a Skype or an email I could contact you with? I'd like to brag about having connections with the Creator of the Logi Code. Thank you :) I'll take a look and see what I can do. I believe the biggest reason for not using the quote system - which I would prefer - is because of the character limits. All the additional characters that affect the font enhancements eat up about 200 - 300 characters per post. To make adjustments I must either cut a similar amount or add another post and readjust the formatting and length. Thank you for the suggestions and your continued support, (bowing) you pay me great compliment. I will take a look this afternoon. mel me at mosestrom @ gmail.com (no spaces) and can look up my skype stuff if you would like :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 896	Posted - 2016.01.21 20:42:00 - [446] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Amarr Logistics: Here's a link to the bug report I made detailing the glitch with the bonus. I also tested with Nanohives for the Caldari suit and it's also affected as well. I had forgotten about this, I'll tack it in there :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
Dj grammer G0DS AM0NG MEN RUST415 399	Posted - 2016.02.04 02:22:00 - [447] - Quote Red thanks for the logi code. Please document this somewhere for future use if we end up getting a DUST514 clone from CCP in the near future. *Logi mk.0, Assault mk.0, Soon to be Scout gk.0 or ck.0*


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