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The Logi Code. Guide to Logi Success. Updated for Uprising

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RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:10:00 - [1] - Quote THE LOGI CODE, Five R's updated for Uprising - Rezz Pick up your teammates - Repair Rep their armor - ResupplyAmmo, grenades, keeps the game moving - ReinforceBackup your team, eradicate the red dots - RallyCreate backup spawns or spot targets So you want to be a Logibro. Where to begin? First Understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character you are not to be playing alone. While you can improvise the scout or assault role you in no way replace them. You are a jack of all trades and the master of 1 or 2. While you will make your play style work for you, as there is no one way to do things, I have found that these suggestions seem to help the most. Figure out your play style to know your weapon preference. Then stay with your team. You are not Rambo - a Logi is an easy target. End your lone wolf practices You are slower = easier to hit. You have a bigger hitbox = easier to hit. You have no side arm = weapon limitation (except for proto Amarr) so you must be comfortable fighting at any distance and find a way to make it work for you. You have no backup, you are the backup. You'll survive better when with a group and benefit your group by being able to repair them or even rezz them right back onto the battlefield. Having said all that you should also know that because Dust514 is a game of diversity you can stack modules of many types to enhance your strengths, neutralize your weaknesses, or create unique dropsuits that are only effective only in a specific situation. The Role of Support Currently the Logi is the only character that can carry more than one piece of equipment,that is the draw of the class. As such your are expected to carry certain items: a nanite injector and a repair tool are the most basic. The nanohive, however, is the most demanded at this point because of the low amounts of ammo resupply points on the field. Currently most assault characters will be carrying one of these to help themselves because of the lack of dedicated Logis with adequate nanohives or even the basic. In addition to the basic equipment, and as your team needs require, you will have other equipment open to you, which will be covered later in the guide. The Bonuses of Being a Logi The individual CLASS bonus of wearing a certain kind of logistics suit is 1hp/sec per level, up to 5. You will have a natural armor healing bonus, it is nice, it does not replace a repair gun but it is nice to have. Note: leveling up one suit class for a race does not transfer that class bonus to another logi dropsuit type of a different race. Example: Leveling up Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit to lvl 5 will in no way affect the repair rate of a lvl 1 Amarr Logistics dropsuit. The bonuses do not stack. The Racial Bonus Depending on what race of dropsuit you have chosen will determine another automatic bonus for your logistics career. And since this also deals greatly with the dropsuit capabilities themselves the proGÇÖs and cons of each raceGÇÖs dropsuit will be covered. Amarr. +5% efficiency to dropsuit repair modules, up to 25%. The Amarr Logistics Dropsuit is the most middle ground suit that exists. In its basic form it has 2 High/ 2 Low/ and 2 Equipment. It is half assault and half Logi. It has bonuses to its primary stats in health and stamina but takes a hit in speed and overall slot count and equipment count for the bonus of the proto level he gets a side arm and 3/3/3. Not that great, and too great a sacrifice for the comparative loss of 1H/1L/2Eslots most balance to 12 slots. The higher initial HP is a benefit but not all that impressive when it can easily be matched by adding an armor/shields mod to any slot of one of the other suit models. Caldari. +5% efficiency to dropsuit shield modules, up to 25%. A subject of major griping on the forums is the ability of this suit to shield tank. Filling the 5 High Slots with shield extenders gives the Caldari Logistics Suit the highest shield HP in the game. Some assault slayers have moved to this class just to capitalize on the tanking ability while filling the low slots with speed modules. This build is a good choice for those who like to shield tank. Shield tanking offers a quick regeneration of hit points and lacks any speed or scanning penalty at this time. Overall a good choice for a Logi. 5H/3L/4E at proto. Gallente. +5% efficiency to dropsuit cpu/pg, up to 25% JUST for equipment. The polar opposite of the Caldari. Many Low slots, a few high slots, but balanced to give you the one of the greatest Logi possibilities in the game. The high allowances for gear means that he can hold almost any gear at the highest levels making him a prime choice for a support Logi that has all the tricks: injector, hive, repper, scanner, deployable shield, or whatever. The low slots allow for armor tanking or great module stacking for specific builds for hacking, sensors, sprinting, ect. A great choice for a logi build. The versatility that the character offers lends itself to specific situational builds quite well. 3H/5L/4E
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:19:00 - [2] - Quote Minmatar. +5% to hacking speed, up to 25%. This is the Logi from the previous beta builds. Though the stats have been altered and other options removed every Logi is compared to this one, the original logi with 12 slots. The racial bonus is decent, it plays to the idea that the Logi will be with the group so whenever the group hits an objective, turret, resupply, or whatever he can leave the defense to the slayers and hack the point faster than anyone else. This may come into play more when eWar starts taking a bigger role in the game. Lower shields, better armor, and faster movement speed allows him to stay with the roving packs a little better than the other Logis. A versatile, well balanced build as well with 4H/ 4L/ 4E at proto level. A good all around choice for a Logi. Normally what I like to run. Each has a different playstyle and definite bonuses to their class and race. Choose wisely. STAGE 1 Character Building: WEAPONS Find the Weapon you like to use and that you are most effective with. Here are a few suggestions that I have found playing as a Logi: NOTE: Your Logi has ONE weapon slot- make it count. Put some skills into upgrading it. The best weapon for a Logi is the AR, SCAR, or a MD (when the targeting gets fixed) AR - the Assault Rifle is always the easiest and most standard piece of equipment on the battlefield. Used by about 80% of the players you can't really go wrong with it. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill to master. Gek or Exile AR is great for a Logi, the TAC AR (TAR) is a semi-auto high damage rifle that is god in every situation. + can go 1v1 and live in medium to short range battle + most versatile weapon with many variants + easy to fit - you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team, or use a TAR to take them out before they get to you. SCAR GÇô the Scrambler Rifle is very similar to the AR but falls under the laser variant for bonuses. The basic version is semi-automatic (fires when you pull the trigger) or can be charged up to deal an intense amount of damage. An Advanced version is fully auto without the ability to charge up. It is extremely effective against shields and pretty accurate. You will get more assists than kills with this weapon. Decent ACOG scope. + erases shields + charge up for more damage + scope is nice - not good against armor - overheats pretty quickly without higher levels in the skill - difficult to 1v1 with this as your only weapon - no militia variant MD - Mass Driver. The Doctor of area denial, damaging the masses and finishing off the wounded. Difficult to master and to start out with. A direct shot is powerful, but most of the time you will be aiming at the feet of your opponents to be specific in damaging certain areas or enemies. The blast radius is currently bugged and the MD took a major nerf from the last build. Those who use it are a dying breed until the physics or radius get fixed. + possibly damage many people at once. (mix in some flux grenades for a fun time) + proto is high damage - low initial damage (ADV and proto level pwn), not good for 1v1, short range, no militia variant - small blast radius with broken effect that leaves the weapon lacking its original purpose LZR - Laser rifle - NO in general unless you are proto Amarr. The gentleman's weapon. A tricky weapon to use and even more difficult to master. A raw beam of energy erases shields and causes panic in groups of shielding players. + damage at long range (though not as long as the TAR) + dmg mods can significantly increase the damage done near burnout. - low damage starting out, must keep beam on enemy, AND at short range YOU WILL DIE. It is less than worthless at short range, you might as well be be throwing food/squirrels/ or even your rifle as you have more of a chance to melee kill them than shoot them. Very difficult to use when your class requires you to be close to rezz and rep your team. - overheating can kill you - burnout suicide. - flare from firing through the iron sights make it difficult to accurately hit the other player. - no militia variant Shotty - Shotgun, hard for a slow logi to use, but deadly at short range and the best alternative in close quarters if you do not use the mass driver. + close range god gun. Finish off opponent when running to rez in a close quarters battle - range makes it worthless in open areas, difficult to back up your party SMG GÇô The distance nerf in uprising has made this weapon viable again. Still only in close quarters but itGÇÖs a bear at eating enemies up close. It is relegated to a sidearm for a reason, but should you have a build or two just for up close battles I wouldnGÇÖt say no. + effective against armor + fast reload speed - AR and Shotty beat it nearly every time. Sniper (NO)- as you are not doing your job, there are better suits for that type of build, Caldari Assault for one. Find one to focus on. Combinations are possible with the Amarr logi, (LZR, SMG) but I caution everyone taking that specific logistics class.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:26:00 - [3] - Quote Use the secondary skill upgrades to un-gimp yourself Grenades: A MUST. This is used as your secondary weapon. And with nanohives you wont always run out of these beauties. You must learn to cook these babies for insta-kills (one hit kills or OHK) - practice practice practice - these are your sidearm weapons (unless you are proto Amarr). Cooking means holding the grenade for a time before you throw it - or hold it and suicide. With the right timing this becomes a very effective weapon. Do not use the BPO nades, you cut yourself short by 1 (2 nades as opposed to the 3 of basic gear), and they are regularly sooooo cheap they are well worth the buy. Flux = shield burners, great for group support, but will not finish off opponents, choose wisely. You can either lead with these and finish off a player with a weapon that deletes armor or focus on shields with a SCAR to just support the team. A good combo is often these with the MD or AR. Locus = standard nade. Use a SCAR for a 1-2 combo or just use these as your backup sidearm. AV = Anti Vehicle nades, throw just above the vehicle - timing is difficult - and they don't work on anything else. They are hard hitting when you get to the higher levels. As a Logi you will most likely not skill into Swarm Launchers until much later in the game as it takes your whole 1 weapon slot (barring the Amarr Proto). These will be your tools of destruction for LAVGÇÖs and Tanks when they get close to your cover. Melee: If someone gets too close GÇô it is difficult to use, don't depend on it. And as a Logi your slower movement doesnGÇÖt lend itself to melee or nova knivesGÇª but hey if you want to roll that way go ahead GÇô I donGÇÖt suggest it but it could be a fun build to pull out at times. STAGE 2 Character Building: Basic Skills Skill Suggestions by priority (opinion), "defense is the best offense" Keeping yourself Alive, you can't help anyone if you're dead Your first purchases are going towards your Racial suit, weapon, and armor. Your equipment is fine for a while and will suffice for repping, rezzing, and resupply for the time being. Since advancing to the Logistics level requires maxing out a single race first and then moving into the logistics arena you need to decide your racial suit variant first. Will you go Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, or Minmatar? Each Basic suit type has itGÇÖs own bonuses in regards to slot layout. Your basic skills that you should focus on in the beginning will always be your passive skills. Skills that work no matter the suit or modules you are using. You should also note that there are certain prerequisites to get some of the skills. First Skills Dropsuit Armor Upgrades: +5% dropsuit armor per level GÇô maximize it Dropsuit Core Upgrades: +1% dropsuit cpu/pg GÇô maximize it Dropsuit Shield Upgrades: +5% dropsuit shield per level GÇô maximize it Grenades: lvl1 opens up new equipment Your Weapon to Advanced level: lvl 3 Choose 1 Logistics skill to Max: Repair Tool Operation or Nano Circuitry, maybe play around with the Active Scanner and Deployable Shield (coming soon), etc. This you will incorporate on your suits until you reach the Logistics level. STAGE 3 Choose Your Race primary focus Play every Medium racial variant to get an idea of the types of bonuses you would receive, and their strengths and weaknesses. You will see how you play with each and the future bonuses of the Logi class. It will take almost 2 million (1,865,920) skill points just to max that race to get to the Logistics class and another 63,000 to get just the first level and have extra equipment slots. Depending on whether you use boosters or not and how much you play that could take a month or more to get there. So, it is a commitment and you will need other skills in climbing to the top. The next few skills should be purchased as you can and while you are saving up for the Logistics level. Dropsuit Electronics: +5% dropsuit CPU GÇô expensive skill, purchase when fits are lacking Dropsuit Engineering: +5% dropsuit PG GÇô expensive skill, purchase when fits are lacking At this point you must choose which direction to go while maximizing your chosen Racial Medium. My suggestion is greater defense, and will be listed next. Why? Because you will need better stuff to go along with your awesome suits. A proto suit with militia gear is still pretty easy to kill. I would suggest either maximizing a few of these or at least getting them to the advanced level.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:34:00 - [4] - Quote - Reinforce - Depending on your Tank style invest in these which give a bonus for a module type and open up new levels of modules to use: Armor Plating: +2% armor module Armor Repair Systems: +5% repair module Shield Extension: +2% shield module Shield Recharging: +3% recharge module Choose your weapon and advance a useful trait for it (sharpshooter, reload, capacity, or the weapon class itself). A FPS game is based on killing the other team. Is the distance too great? Getting shot while reloading? Ammo shortage? You know where you are failing the most, take a few levels here to help change that about. You might also try another weapon or get the advanced/proto version of your weapon. Remember, light weapons only. Max Racial Medium and get Logi lvl 1 At this point you should be beefy enough to handle yourself and help the team. Moving to Max your Racial Suit is a good next move and then on to the Logistics Class. Your secondary skills will increase what you can do for the team, or you can choose to focus on yourself. Your First Builds if you made it to the Logi level Your basic builds should reflect the code with your weapon of choice and this basic equipment: Your first builds are 2 perishable lvl. 1 or greater Logi - Drop Suits with the three equipment slots #1- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Nanite Resupply (Nano-Hive), Repper (repair tool) #2- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Scanner or whatever, Repper (repair tool). 1and 2 (how I roll - find your play style) Whatever equipment you choose, or what type of builds you use, if you are a dedicated Logi these are the pieces of equipment that you should be carrying around. If you only have two you will build variations that suit the team that you follow. Injector and repper are usually best. I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows: High Slots: Shield Extender, Damage Modifier, or another Shield Extender Low Slots: Armor Repper, Armor, Cardiac Regulator, Shield Regulator, or CPU/PGU mods During your gameplay you will experiment with whether you are more of a tanking character or one that needs some speed, or even one that does better by just staying off the radar. I prefer tank, and it seems that most effective Logis do. STAGE 4 Choose an Area to Specialize - Rezzing, Rally, and Resupply- Nanites and Repper to lvl 3 to max. GÇô You should have one Logi skill maxed at this point. Get the second to lvl 3. At the logistics level you will be allowed to use more equipment, which means you will need better equipment too. Get some of your Logi skills to at least the advanced level with Nanocircuitry and Repair tool operation. Advancing to Proto Logi Logistics Dropsuit: Maxed This requires an ungodly amount of SP, over 3 million. It is not for the faint of heart to attempt. You are looking at a several weeks of play time and passive accumulation, with or without boosters, to hit this level. You will want to have many of your skills already at a satisfying place before attempting this Proto level. Then to get to the proto level is another 3 million (3,109,920) skill points = another 1 or 2 months depending on boosters and playtime Secondary skills for the Team - Rezz - to run to them Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades: 1% sprint/stamina/stamina recovery per level and opens up modules that affect sprinting and stamina. You could be a speedy Logi and speed tank. -Repair- Lvl 1 you should be using the Flux Repair tool. It gives you a longer stream and can keep you out of danger. Going proto gives you a two streamer... very nice, or one that can repair 105hp/sec at close range. -Rally- Get your active scanners or drop uplinks to a good level. A burst of red dots on peopleGÇÖs scanners will put the attention of other blue dots in the area over there. Or create a rally spawn for a fall back position. Secondaries for You (you selfish kitten - but highly recommended) These are all costly but helpful These other skills will help make the enemies around you pop up on your scanner even when they are not sprinting, identify spawn uplinks, and generally help with alerts before getting shot in the back. Precision Enhancement: +2% dropsuit scan precision (more easily scan others) Profile Dampening: -2% dropsuit scan profile (you disappear a bit more on the scanners) Range Amplification: +10% dropsuit scan radius (you scan a greater distance) Fun Things to Do Weapon: You need to kill in an FPS so maximize your weapon Demolitions: Play with this. You have the equipment slots to pack this stuff around. Proximity mines are only AV and you can lay down up to 6 of them at a time. Place them on paths highly traveled by LAV's to get free kills, and upgrade them to severely damage a HAV (Tank). Remote explosives are a good tool for defense. You can have up to three out at a time, 1 detonation signal will set them off in the order they were activated. Place at objectives - signal to stop/kill a hacker. Place in groups, at CRU's, or at corners and time the explosion for great fun. - you may get hate mail for this. Hacking: 3+ if you plan on being effective in skirmish. The Minmatar Logi suit already has a natural hacking bonus. This makes it godly. Spec into AV stuff. With a Caldari or Minmatar Logi the many high slots open for damage mods greatly increase the power of a proto swarmer, makes you the king of vehicle popping... but you canGÇÖt kill anything else. Or just really good grenades may be your bag.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:39:00 - [5] - Quote STAGE 5 Fun Builds Logissaults: Logis that max out ganking power. Caldari and Minmatar can pull it off by stacking all their highs with damage mods and setting themselves up with armor or speed mods for an interesting Gank/Tank. A real glass cannon most of the time. Minmatar Logissault: 4dmg mods/ 3 armor mods 1 repair mod. Adv. Laser rifle and plenty of cover is fun for camping a spawn GÇô must out distance the enemies. Caldari Logissault: 5 shield extenders/ 2 speed mods. 1 Shotgun. Fast, hard hitting, and heavily shield tanked. You must also run away a lot. Gallente Logissault: 2 complex dmg mods/ 4 armor 1 repper. Repairing nano hives and a TAR or MD. Camping king. His repair usually out does the damage done and if not he can just back off for a moment. AmarrGÇª sorry. Build like any assault character. Infiltrators: Speed mods and Hacking Mods. Just run around taking objectives. Gallente and Minmatar only. AV or Antipersonnel: Mines and explosives play well for your character as you have all the equipment slots in the world. Use them, experiment with them. It can be really fun. Final Words There are many different builds and many different pieces of knowledge that could have been added. Like basic tactics - Move from cover to cover or "If you are dying before they do get more HP, if they are running off before you can kill them get damage mods." - not mine but very true. The trick is to find your playing style. Example: While the Shotty is awesome the Logi is slower than most players and also has a high scan level so the element of surprise is lost and you cannot evade as well - yet some people have figured out how to play well with it. I play as a medic. I prefer to cover the mid - short range offense of the group while the meat grinding heavies and troopers take the mid to long range guys and I rezz and repair when necessary. I like it and it suits me, as a Logi I am playing close to my team. I like the support role; however the Logi Proto suits are amazingly powerful because of the customization possibilities. You could turn your Logi into a dmg dealing speed freak or an AV tank. The possibilities are not covered in this guide. This is just for the beginners. Many other Logis have offered input and specifically made threads on different builds, basic tactics, drop uplinks, and many other subjects. This will get you started in the role. Experiment with weapons and setups to find your niche. The equipment bonus of the Logi is your advantage. Make a pile of proximity mines with remote explosives and see a tank just melt with surprise. There are different ways to make your squads work - you can be the one that tips the battle in your teams favor. READ AND UNDERSTAND These are two comments on what it means to be a Logibro, not a logistics class, a Logibro. If you do not understand then you are looking for a class with equipment and this guide is not for you. This is for the Logibro. Vyzion Evri wrote: From Vyzion Eyri, it fits with the selfless role of the Logibro: I will spend whatever costs necessary to ensure blueberries know they are never alone in the fight to overcome to pubstompers. There is no battlefield I will not walk, no mountain I will not scale, no LAV I will not stand in front of, if it means the blueberries realize that one day, one glorious day, they will be that man. That selfless logibro who gave up 500k in one game to prove to them that protobears may be tough, but it is the spirit that lasts. I will fight to the bitter end to pick up that fallen comrade, even if it means sacrificing myself by placing my shields between the body and the sniper I know is watching, hoping for a free kill, knowing that his rebirth will begin with the death of his savior. I will sink to the bottom of my wallet to ensure that blueberries will never cry for ammo, never hurt for armor, never sigh for bleeding out. I will work until the enemies see my selfless acts of purity as true Logibroness, and refuse to kill me. Sometimes, it is the simple fact that a hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple as placing a nanohive on a blueberry and telling him his killing streak wasn't over, that keeps me going. Chankk Saotome wrote: I have a dream... It is a dream deeply rooted in the Logibro dream. I have a dream, that one day amongst the constructs of Ashlands, waves of heavies and assaults will be trailed by golden lines of life saving armor repair, standing in the glow of restocking nanohives reaching out and crushing the foe before them. I have a dream. I have a dream. That downed bluedots will not be afraid or too impatient to wait for the aide of a nanite injector and even stay beside their fellow clone for supplemental armor repair. I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by their KDR but by the true benefit they offer their team, I have a dream today! I have a dream, that one day, from sweltering plains of Skim Junction to the frozen peaks of Manus, men and women will work together and aid one another to their fullest for the benefit of all above and beyond their own self interest, I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, even right there in the fields of Line Harvest little blue dots, and little green dots, will join hands as sisters and brothers in overcoming the overwhelming odds of reddot oppression to work in the full spirit of brotherhood, I HAVE A DREAM TODAY! __________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [6] - Quote As a last note: My OPINION only: I recommend using real money, buying aurum and purchasing the Lvl Logi suit to try it out. Some of the packs offer an easy to use Minmatar build with extra equipment slots - one of these would let you experiment with roles and using a class with lots of equipment options. An infinite Lvl 1 Logi build will be your base class for a long time to come. Also I recommend purchasing the blueprint (BPO) Shield extender, Armor, Armor repper, nanite injector, nanohive, drop uplink, CPU/GPU mods, and Cardiac Regulator. You will get better equipment eventually, but these will be your friends for a while and allow you to build up ISK for later purchases. You make enough ISK to support your builds, but this keeps me ISK positive. You do not have to do this. I just find it helpful and since I bought some merc packs a while back I have the aurum to burn on this and boosters. But, you do what you think is best. Many people are against this idea as it requires real money. And you do make enough ISK to cover every build and already have some free suits to fall back on. Again, I like this approach, but for others it is not a viable path. That is fine. You will get to play as a Logi without aurum. I never needed it, it was just nice to use. Once you outgrow the Lvl 1 items though you will look back at them and be able to decide if it was a good buy or not because you now usually just run advanced gear. Your choice, your money.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [7] - Quote This box is left here for the increase in size I expect from future Adjustments.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:42:00 - [8] - Quote Please, offer any insights you wish or ask any question. I would prefer that this thread is used for questions and suggestions for the guide. It is not meant to be an end all, just a working baseline for beginners.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 15:55:00 - [9] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits). Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out. Good call, and thanks for the apology. I've emailed CCP to try and move the post. Good points all. This guide is definitely in its beta form - as so much has changed and I only Know the AMARR and MINMATAR logi's and have no experience with the others. Therefore I am leaning heavily on the reports I read online by the sources I trust like you, Cross, and others. True, Lvl 5 is a large commitment for any skill. And some skills are not needed. As posted by another, Maxing you inherent shields or armor is not much of a bonus if they are so low. Thanks for the input. Working...
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 20:54:00 - [10] - Quote ^^ Amen brother. Thanks for fielding those questions. I've taken both of your recomendations and taken about 5 more hours to reorganize and rewrite the parts. Please comment again. Adjusted. -reading flow and format -sections divided and reorganized -skill value and recommendations for specific suits -spoke to basic fittings -adjusted recommended levels for skills -rewrote suit opinions -... writing this post after all that work = my mind has turned to jelly. Thanks for your input I'll keep working tomorrow.

RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 221	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:34:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for the input Shady. I do need to add an equipment section.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 231	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:32:00 - [12] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: BTW, was great squadding with you last night! Hope to link up with you again in the future. Sorry you caught me on an off day, thank you for the notes and input. The Gallente has alot of potential when looking at the math and slot setups, it will be interesting to see how it actually plays out. but without the armor plating you will have minimal HP, watch yourself. Chankk Sotome, Your guide to leveling up step by step rather than my vague "use these skills" is valuable to any new player, thank you much for creating it. I will reference it in the guide with your permission. Well done.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 244	Posted - 2013.05.22 20:24:00 - [13] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits... Chankk Saotome, First, I went through all of my posts and corrected the misspelling of your name "sotome" to "Saotome"... sorry about that. Second, while your input is valuable would you please edit you post that is in the middle of the guide to minimize it ... adding it at the end is no problem, but I cannot move it and would like it not to detract from the guide. Third, I am taking your suggestions for a step by step process from your post and adding it to the Logi Code guide in an edited fashion - I will of course credit you as the source - I hope that is ok, I just don't want people getting frustrated and lost at that point or missing your post in the thread - it is too valuable a resource not to post. EVERYONE ELSE Adding: Equipment Guide CS's leveling up portion to the Guide Spelling and other misprint mistakes Takes on the basic forms of the dropsuits, not just the proto so as to advise on the starting aspects of each race
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 251	Posted - 2013.05.23 06:41:00 - [14] - Quote Thank you CCP for moving the post that was in the middle, thank you very much. Shady, It really depends on your squad. I like two logis in a squad along with 1 or two heavies and the rest assaults. In a perfect world you would have 1 single group that could break of a minor section for an attack or flanking. there should be 3 Injectors. 2 from the logis and 1 if the logis are down. 2 proto reppers. 1 two streamer and 1 super max repper for the heavy. The rest of the squad should carry Nanohives. 1 Logi should have re's and the other an active scanner. Hopefully someone is spec'ed for AV with nades as well. and 1 logi should cary exclusively flux grenades. That was just some quick thinking that doesn't take into account snipers or scouts or vehicles but I will maybe work on it some more tomorrow. Good idea.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 252	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:11:00 - [15] - Quote Thanks Chankk, You've been a big help. I do like that you posted about having some drop uplinks - I had completely forgotten and was assuming the state of winning and defending an objective - not about having to move in and lose 1 or two guys on the way and needing them to respawn. A very good point that I often forget. Would you post 1 or 2 of you fits and explain why you have them fitted like that. I saw that some of you basic skills in your suggestions for the first 5 million SP had Shield regulators and Shield Rechargers. Using the Minmatar I often have sacrified those modules for something else, would you please share with me why you find them so useful? Like a before and after scenario with current fittings and older fittings.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 252	Posted - 2013.05.23 19:15:00 - [16] - Quote Daivex D'Vyn wrote: First off, this is a great guide... So, my questions are: 1). What's the best Logi suit for a casual dust player? 2). Can a casual dust player gain entry into an organized Corp and be properly utilized? 3). How much of a difference is there between shield tanking and armor tanking in survivability? (Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar) Ideally, I would like to be a full support logi, but if being a casual player is going to relegate me to a life of pick up games, I don't want to be totally gimped. My biggest fear is I pick Gallente or Minmatar and just wind up running around trying to help people that don't understand how I can help them and just spam "redeploy" or run away from me while I'm trying to repair them. Again, thanks for the guide, and I appreciate advice you guys may have for me. Good Response Shady, I think I'll chime in too. 1. Caldari or Minmatar sounds like they would be the best fit for you. Caldari for the Shield tanking but still being able to carry some equipment. Minmatar for a little more speed but lower HP. However it seems that you are not talking about being a Logibro so much as being a character with more equipment slots. Being Logistics character and not a Logibro is ok - but the guide wont really help you that way. I think you are shooting more for a Logissault. A character that carries a repair tool or a nano-hive/injector with RE's or Proxy mines or active scanner or drop uplinks. You have many options but it sounds like you are going more for an attack logi than a Logibro. Caldari matches that most, especially at low levels. Or the Amarr at low levels is an interesting play - very unique but hard to suggest at this time and build to be a workable character. 2. Look at the forum posts, look for the corps that speak up that you seem to agree with and apply to them; but of course the most successful way to get into a corp is to play with a mic and be fortunate to link up with one in a random battle like Shady said. OR go tot he recruiting section of the forums and look for some of the big corps and apply. If you are rejected, so what try again with another corp. The only reason no to be in a corp is because one may not meet the requirements for one they applied to (like a KDR ration or a SP (5 million for example) or for the simple reason that they have not applied. To be part of a corp is the players choice. 3. Shield vs Armor tanking. Simple answer: Currently shields win. This debate has been going on since the first days of the Beta and is not an easy question to answer. Search out some better articles on this subject and judge for yourself the pro's and con's of these methods. The easiest view is shields will recharge to maximum quickly and are more resilient to common weaponry (barring the SCAR or LZR). Armor gets some resistances to shield weapons and recharges slowly but consistently over time. Armor tanking requires a logi to help rep you. Most lone wolves shield tank because they don't have to rely on a team for reps. Armor gives more HP at the sacrifice of movement speed. Shields have no penalty. You keep your speed, you ability to dodge, and ability to run away. Amor requires you to play smarter as your movement is limited. But because of the ungodly amount of HP by armor an armor tank can be really hard to kill (gallente). Hope that helps.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 253	Posted - 2013.05.23 22:45:00 - [17] - Quote Thanks :)
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 254	Posted - 2013.05.24 00:14:00 - [18] - Quote NoxiousMentos wrote: This guide is very well done.Thank you for this great service to logi's of all kinds. That being said,I am SO torn between Caldari and Minmatar. >< Me too. Thanks for the Support Cross Atu! If the Amarr had the balance needed I would be jumping for them. One more low slot and some more PG and I would be sold. But otherwise the battlecentric Caldari or the Hack machine Minmatar are the ones I like too. And they level a more evenly than the other classes. I wanted to try another class with Uprising - and did try AMARR - but it looks like I might stick with the Minmatar... but i really want my Amarr.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 260	Posted - 2013.05.24 15:31:00 - [19] - Quote Delirium Inferno wrote: A little curious as to why you say no to flaylock pistol but yes to mass driver, and your reasoning is flaylock has low ammo. Well the mass driver has even less ammo than the flaylock! Anyways, I've ran with only a flaylock before and it can definitely work, the damage is comparable or even better than mass drivers. Still mass driver has more range, more blast radius (though smaller blast damage), and a larger clip and is better for our support role. Still, if you are planning your build in advance and need to free up some CPU/PG don't be afraid to give the flaylock a try. Good call. My hesitation comes from it being assigned as a side arm. Part of that concern is with the distance limitation of the Flaylock. Why does that matter? It is a cause of concern because a Logibro starts the battle with his teammate. If there are enemies we lay down fire until we are called upon to fulfill our role. But I see it as if your teammates can engage then so should we. Another Logibro pointed out that often in a 2 on 2 scenario if the logibro stops to rep his teammate, making it a 2 on 1 situation we are not contributing as much as we should be to the situation. It is about playing smarter and choosing a weapon that has that limited distance makes the job more difficult. A second note would be the limitation in rounds per clip. When a Logi does fire: freaking make it count. Level the area to rush to the rescue or hold off an attack. I do know that some of the MD's have only 4 rounds and flaylocks have 3 but more MD's have 6... is there one with 8? Anyway, when you do lay down fire - pwn. If you can pull that off with a Flaylock then go for it. Remember this is more of a guide and not the end all to every player. If a player has skill enough to use something else then they should. There is variety in the game and I am certainly not pushing for every Logi to only have an AR. For some to specialize in other weapons and learn different ways to play the game only help when they come back here and share. For example the Scrambler pistol can one shot most suits with a head shot, yet most people don't use it. That being said People have made it work. I'm not the guy who has. So yeah, try Flaylocks on your alt, if they work out for you great, if not, use something else. Thanks for bringing it up Inferno.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 260	Posted - 2013.05.24 18:23:00 - [20] - Quote Your welcome and thanks for commenting and bringing us back to the days of when what we did meant the world to the team but did nothing for our scores. I actually wish I had Room in the guide for another post, as is I'm pushing the limits of each post to the character count =p. But I'm glad it is included in the thread. As an addition there was/is a player (part of betamax), haven't seen him around recently, but had the original name: Logi Bro. How he was as a logi i don't know but the term came from his character name when we were struggling to find a name other than 'medic' to define the role because it was so much more. He commented for a while when we started using his name, unabridged, about how we were using his name... and eventually the world forgot and I haven't seen him in any of these posts since. But thank him for the great contribution to our role: Our Title. Inferno, Updated the guide to suggest the Flaylock and speak a little more positively on its behalf. If you give me a +/- little layout like i have for the other weapons I'll include it.

RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 261	Posted - 2013.05.24 22:47:00 - [21] - Quote For those wondering about the repair tool comment and the in depth explanation by Cross Atu and the response from the devs please see this Risk v Reward progression for support action >Issue with the Amarr Logi and one way to play the character< Initial HP But to the Amarr Logi. I have been playing him a little more to verify what has been written in this post. He really is a unique character. Buffed HP stats seem to take the place of a H slot right out of the gate, when most Logis are 90/180 or 180/90 or the minmatar with 90/150 the AMARR is at 120/180. So, the armor is on par with the others, no bonuses there. On shields he has only 30 more or 50 less - that is and ADV Shield mod, nothing more. Granted you start with this but he might make a bigger impact on the Logi/Assault if he had the same HP as his basic frame counter part at 180/180. So that in comparison to any race he has an automatic Complex shield or armor mod. Yet, with the same amount of armor he is still slower than than the armor Logis. So, he gained what would be a High slot but only at a medium level. One fix is to keep the stat and add a High or Buff the Shield stat to a Complex Mod level - especially if he is going to be the Tanky Logi right out of the gate that suffers from fewer slots. Speed Next is his speed. He is the slowest, for no real reason as his armor is not greater than anyone elses, but that might just be the nature of the Amarr as the assaults are slowed as well, but cant compare the heavies yet. It seems that that is meant to mean they are a bit beefier... but they also have the best stamina. So while they cannot sprint as fast they can sprint greater distances and more often. Interesting choice, it certainly makes him unique. If it had been on the Minmatar that may make some more sense but it compensates a bit for his slow speed. But looking to the setup of the soldier we see that when we apply the armor modules it slows his sprinting speed. Meaning that to keep up with the group he will always be sprinting and then be a little gimped in weaving out of fire - slow targets are easier to hit. So his stamina regen is the balance for his speed but it can be brought to a point where wearing more armor will defeat the purpose of sprinting. Shield Regen and Shield Delay Second best shield regen 17, as opposed to 20 or 15. He has a standard shield regen time of 6 seconds BUT if his shields are depleted the time is reduced to 5 seconds. This guy is unique. What appears to be an armor tanker is better with shield tanking for his recharge rate and recharge time. Implied play experience vs Real play With his racial bonus one would normally believe that he is meant to be an armor tanker. But in play that fails as the Armor penalty to movement is too great and outweigh the benefits. What it seems to be is that he is meant to be in a constant state of repair and lose his shield in each encounter to get into armor only to have it repaired quickly. Equipping a shield extender and shield recharger with a shield regulator and armor repair mod would seem to be the way to get the most out of this guy in the beginning, but it also means playing smarter. The limitations of slots at the proto level means that one would need these to be complex mods of the highest order or a setup like: Highs 2 shield extenders and 1 recharger w/ lows 1 recharger 1 armor and 1 repper or 1 armor and 2 reppers. So just focusing on Repair tanking and jump in and out of battle. Problem is he cant move fast enough to just jump in and out of battle. He may be able to outrun them in distance but not with speed so he must stand his position and have other players help take some of the heat at times. Playing him in battle means walking an edge of always losing shields and but not losing all the armor. He lives for the Regen, and every skill should be focused to boost his initial hp and then his mods should focus on Regen. He is pretty unique and pretty fun but he cant fit into the role as is. Corrections to Balance: His role requires more CPU/PG - that is established and moot as an arguable point It also requires 1 more High or Low slot IN Favor of a HIGH - take advantage of his shields and shield recharge ability. IN Favor of a LOW - More intune with established Lore and to fit this regen roll to either make him the best repair guy (currently beat by the Gallente with his many lows) or take the AMARR role and armor tank. Lastly the sidearm issue. There have different suggestions of when to give him his 3E slots, the 1 proposed increase to a high or low slot, and when to give the character a sidearm. I would say immediately. This is the draw of the class. This is his purpose - with only 2E slots he is not really a logi and is more assault right from the start. The progression balance of the Caldari and Minmatar is pretty good. The Gallente is weighted to get everything at the Proto level and as is the AMARR. From a gaming standpoint that is not that fun. Giving an increase for every level is the reason for progression and gets rid of the Proto or Militia attitude. ADV should be used and should be a benefit for each class. AMARR suffers from that attitude. And when we see that most other races get slot buffs in every class for their increase in skill level this should be the same with the AMARR LOGI and relegate his sidearm bonus as the starting bonus to set the class up as an Assault/Logi from the beginning. But, looking at the assaults that automatically makes him better than the assaults if one only looks at the slot count and not the other stats - but that speaks to balancing the Assaults more than the balance of the Logi's and that is another discussion.
RedBleach LeSanglant PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 290	Posted - 2013.05.29 23:05:00 - [22] - Quote shady merc wrote: every logi need to listen to clankk on the shield regulator bit. Once I got my advance logi suit I put enough points into shield regulators to get advance version which decrease shield delay by 20%. I replaced my armor repair since my logi skill was doing a passive 3 hp, and I got to say wow. You will always end up with more available hit points at the beginning of an encounter this way. In the logi suit my shield delay is 6 second, and 6 second when depleted. using the advance shield regulator (not counting the passive bonus) That cuts the time to about 5 seconds. So that mean in 6 seconds I gain 20hp back for my shields. This has made a difference to the suit for sure even if its not the most noticeable change you can make. If you try this please give the module a couple days on the suit because its a little tougher to notice then say more hp or dmg but worth every penny. (running this on an advance minmatar logi suit ) Yeah, it has been an interesting move. I find I have to play to my strengths (armor) to survive, but on the advanced and proto suits I see their value.
RedBleach LeSanglant PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 293	Posted - 2013.06.03 16:26:00 - [23] - Quote Active Scanners covered in the equipment section, and how they are used. Chankk, they are awesome. Baosh - I would say no to the flux active scanner. It limits your radius and the scanner length goes beyond your radar. I see it only of use as you try to point out enemies that are further away than normal caution would allow you to find cover. Like a sniper or a small pack skirting the outside of the map.
RedBleach LeSanglant PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 295	Posted - 2013.06.04 21:00:00 - [24] - Quote With the respec I went Amarr logi. The worst logi of them all just for the challenge. If it ever gets balanced I will be a happy man. If not, well I'm eventually going to go Caldari or Minmatar later for some variation. My plan is to go AV with swarm launcher and smg or flaylock. The flaylock is a difficult weapon for me to use. This is due to the slight delay in firing and missile speed. A direct hit is devastating - well not at the militia levels- but it is fun to use. The SMG keeps me close to my team mates or jumping from cover to cover as a player should be doing anyway. The AR gave me the distance so I would shoot people when I was not in an optimal area for a firefight - i would hope I would kill them first, and that wasn't really working out. The SMG and Flayock ensure that I only fire when my range is optimal and made me play smarter. But with only two E slots my loginess is limited. I hope this suit gets fixed, but it is fun to play at the moment.
RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 296	Posted - 2013.06.05 10:02:00 - [25] - Quote AND WHAT A MISTAKE! Amarr is broken. Minmatar, Caldari, and Gallente are truly the only options. And AR is still the best all around weapon at this point. So next time i have a spare 5 million SP I'll just get my Mini back or go Caldari.
RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 297	Posted - 2013.06.05 18:30:00 - [26] - Quote Right on Chankk. 3 Equipment slots is the only way for LogiBro to go. The end. That is a commandment. The variability of the class is dependent on that aspect. I will adjust the Guide to reflect as much.
RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:43:00 - [27] - Quote I would still recommend the AR over any other weapon. My second recommendation would be the SCAR. Depending on your playstyle - lead with grenade or finish with grenade should lead you to Flux or Locus nades. Last note, I've been playing with some repair nanohives and they are a great alternative if you are feeling limited by the Repair tool or need something just to repair yourself.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 339	Posted - 2013.07.08 04:50:00 - [28] - Quote So, I ran into some logis that were using Shotguns... they were good. They were Minmatar and Caldari. They must have had speed mods, I could hardly hit them. It was a deadly combination, but I don't know how they did as actual logi bros. But watch out for them - deceptively strong.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 339	Posted - 2013.07.08 05:29:00 - [29] - Quote Centurion mkII wrote: chopper911ed wrote: This is bye far the best topic in this forum.. Got my respec an followed the guide all the way to the 5mil point with a mim logistic. Got the advace suit with proto repair an advance everything else. Just wondering now if I should go proto suit logi or skill up to level 5 in sheilds an armour. With this 3X cap week I Have plenty to spend Get proto mods before proto suit. Also dont use complex plates. I recommend 3 basic plates. Maybe with a gallente, but 3 plates is hard on your movement. I do agree with getting proto mods before the suit - even though the lower suits can hardly bare more than one or two.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 380	Posted - 2013.07.30 22:30:00 - [30] - Quote The Amarr Logi has been redeemed. The super long discussion on the Amar Logi brought many fair points to the table and lead CCP to make a change. I thank them and honor them for listening to the players, taking the best factors from the arguments, and then pulling together an update that best reflected what needed to happen. Thank you CCP. Please Go to the forums debating the update and thank CCP for listening to the players and making changes. I cannot emphasize enough that they know we appreciate their work. And thank you guys and gals for continuing to post and ask questions in my absence.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 385	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:45:00 - [31] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: RKKR wrote: I'm just wondering how RRRRR-logis experience Planetary Conquest battles? I mostly see them reduced to a R(ally)-logi spamming uplinks all over the place :-(? Often in PC, we're asked to haul out uplinks everywhere we can and in the most useful positions. Beyond that we're still called on for hives though most assaults are expected to carry their own on good teams. Rep Tool should be on your suit if you've got that fourth slot. Revives almost take a backseat in PC despite the importance of clones. Often battle is too hectic and chaotic and it makes it a huge hazard to pick people up during a fight which may go on until the round is over. Personally, when I'm involved, I'm almost always called out to be a Link packmule, but if I get the chance or I'm on point defense I keep up hives, rep tool, and the occasional scanner (Perhaps we could consider this Radar? Reconnaissance? Recognition? Representationalism? Rhapsodomancy?) Good call Chank I may have to rework the guide later, currently I would still put them under Re-enforce. With new equipment like the shield bubbles we will see where all of it fits. I think i'm still waiting for them to fix the scanners and a few other bits. And yes, in most PC battles you will ignore the revive. Build yourself a fit with droplinks and nanohives, and a repair tool if you can fit it. And Make sure it is your best gear. Lvl 5 nano circuitry for the rep hives and nano hives. Even though injectors are great there is rarely a safe time to pick someone up until there is some sort of balancing done to the injectors. CCP related that there were thoughts of damage reduction after a revive while the nanites were still at work in the clone, or something similar. When the super power modules come out it will be interesting to see what happens. First however is getting the game to run smoother, getting all the suits, and reworking some of the skills so they aren't worthless - like reload for the assault rifle and such.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 386	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:55:00 - [32] - Quote Jimthefighter wrote: Just out of curiosity, I run a Mini Logi most times and also run with a TAC AR due to being support and I like being able to hit from a longer range. However, I've also though about using the Scrambler Rifle. How does it compare/should I ever consider a switch? Depends on how well you work with a semi auto gun. I'm not that proficient with them and barring a noob standing in one spot so I can take his head off I have to go for the spray and pray types of weapons (laser is still my favorite point and shoot). That being said, if you are good with the semi auto weapons the Scram rifles rip shields very quickly with the drawback being the over heating. You can pull five or six shots off in rapid succession before it overheats. So it limits your firetime to bursts of action where a TAR will only be limited by reload speed. That being said, if you do fully skill into the Scars then the overheat allowance increases. You also have a Charged Shot available to you which does a crap-ton of damage if it hits. Like i said, its all about shot placement. If you can, it will rip shields but has difficulty finishing off an enemy as it does 80% damage to armor (120% to shields). Look at your play style, if you hang back and soften up enemies to be killed and get more assists than kills it may be for you. There are some great killers who swear by them so don't let me keep you from trying them. Oh, at the advanced level there is an assault version for a spray and pray AR like rifle. It is a weapon that I may one day skill into. Try them out on an alt and see if you like the feel. Second, check the CPU/PG in relation to your current weapon, I forget if they are heftier than other weapons. As a logi those are important numbers to watch. SR > laser rifle. just in case you were wondering.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 386	Posted - 2013.08.03 19:41:00 - [33] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Note on the Cal shield logi. Yes, it's beast... now. Mainly because it's racial skill affects Shield Ext MODULES, not shield base. Which is broken as all getout. It means that 66 shield extenders get shot up to 82.5 shields per module. Ridiculousness, and despite CCP's love of Caldari and Shields, it's a broken mechanic that will only lead to massive gamewide entropy. And by that I mean it will end up being the only suit anyone uses, even with anti-shield weaponry where it is currently. Q&A: 1) Cal will have the highest shields in the game, but purely through modules and base stat. The "Extender Module Efficacy" will likely be getting a major tweaking if not complete revision due to the massive influx of the Caldari bumblebee. Called it in the very beginning - (second or third post in the guide) well done Chankk!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 389	Posted - 2013.08.08 22:31:00 - [34] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: Bump for great resource. For all the true Caldari logibros out there: How do you fit full racks of proto equipment? My current fitting is: 5x Shield extender GEK/TAR/Burst Basic locus nade 3x ADV equipment (Drop + Nanohive + Depends on squad/map/what I feel like) Basic/ADV CPU mod 2x Enhanced Shield Regulators 1x Basic armor plate My main problem is running out of PG rather than CPU, since I can always swap in a better CPU mod. Skill-wise, I've got DS core upgrades 4, Engineering 3. Is all that is holding me back the Engineering skill? Quick Answer - Get your skills up. General Answer: Sadly, you can't have everything.... yet. That is one of the current problems with the game. Having maxed out PG and CPU skills (MANDATORY), the general skill that gives you 1% bonus to each, you still need more in order to get a complete proto fit. This was not always the case. In the previous versions gettting a complete proto fit was the dream - and achievable. So, now that you are not really able to, even if you get all the weapon cpu/pg reductions as well you will still have to sacrifice. This is role defining. Better gun or better nanohive? This was also the draw of the Caldari Bumblebee or Logissault. The hight CPU and PG of the Logi suit, coupled with the bonus to shield extenders allowed for a complete proto assault suit with little to no equipment . Like i said, role defining. You have to give up something. For my Proto Nano build (a bubble of undeath and resupply for camping/defense) my proto suit runs all militia modules just to carry the equipment. You must find a balance, like :great repper and ok injector, or basic uplink for boss nanohive, or great weapon for milita equipment (backup medic), or lose a grenade or side arm slot. It is difficult, bu the more you find your play style the better you will be able to enhance your strengths.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 408	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:42:00 - [35] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: New Gear to Come: Webifier: Slows movement of vehicles and infantry. Deployable Shield: Bubble shield of protection Energy Drainers: unknown Infantry Active Modules: Activated bonuses (unknown super powers) Cloaking: Either over an area or just on a dropsuit. Is this speculation or been confirmed by a Dev somwhere? These are all equipment that has been hinted at, at one time or another, by someone from CCP - even it it is just that they like the idea and would like to incorporate it into the game sometime in the future. Most of these can be found by running through the weekly updates about what the Dev's have met and talked about. We may see some of these in six months or six years depending on the time it takes to get the basic gameplay squared away, and stop getting stuck on terrain. I would imagine that cloaking and perhaps some other active modules would be at the top of the list, followed by new equipment. These are things to get excited about, not to count on. Some may come out. Some may never see the light of day. Many of us have been in since the closed beta when these things were talked about and some of the test item info was found deep inside the eve servers. These were things like new suit variations and variable bonuses. But it is something to look forward to.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 408	Posted - 2013.08.19 18:06:00 - [36] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: First post, so be patient with me ... I'm still a newberry and trying to learn the ropes my first week in Dust... I'm playing casually right now and having a blast :-) A couple of questions for those with more experience: 1. With 'Active Scanning' now giving a real benefit and useful function per comments from Chankk Saotome, does that make a substantial change in terms of the recommended 'Initial 500K SP' for progression? (And the eventual move towards 5mil?) If my math is right, it appears as though the Active Scanning skill can be picked up with the first 500k SP. 1a. For the 'equipment loadout' recommendations for the 3 slot equipment starter suits (Logi M-1 and G-1), where does the Active Scanning gear fit into the loadouts? i.e. What equipment is the priority to 'drop' from the loadout? (i.e. is it Injector/Hive/Repper v.s. Injector/Uplink/Repper v.s. Injector/Scanner/Repper? Or do the Injector or Repper get dropped instead of the Uplink/Hive when adding the Scanner?) The suggested load outs are for basic logi support. These are what is recommended for starting out and getting the feel for being a logi, and ultimately what every logi should carry most of the time. What it seems you are asking is "can i deviate from this path?" The answer is yes you can. This is logibro equipment - the basics. Upper tier gallente and minmatar have 4 equipment slots available to them. Idealy you would put the scanner in the 4th slot. That being said, this is a game of customization and specialization! Half of my builds have the standard logibro load out, but the other half are situation specific: all nanohives, or all drop uplinks, or just a boss repper and an injector. My favorite is a supper expensive build with the the bubble of invincibility - All repping nanohives from proto on down. A huge sphere of repping that if you play your card right - ducking behind cover for 1 - 2 seconds a player is fully healed. I have a speed based hacking suit without a repper - I'm on the front line alone, who am i gonna rep? You build it how you like to play, sticking to a structured form may make you dislike it after a while. This is a guide not a rulebook. Now to your question about what to remove - tough call. If you are pointing out the baddies then where will your team suffer? From pickups or low ammo? Repairs or spawn uplinks? You can compromise - a repping hive and a boss injector for no rep tool, or perhaps a boss rep tool, good hives, and not pickupstick. It is your call, but think about what you are best at: do you often repair or pickup or resupply? Where has your focus been? Keep that aspect and test sacrificing another. THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER - that is why its fun. Experiment, I will usually ditch an injector or repper depending on who I'm playing with. 2. Building a starter Min logi seems to be a lesson in CPU/PG pain with substantially less flexibility than I've seen so far with Gallente ... is that typical, or merely that the CPU/PG headroom is so much more with the Gallente dropsuit path due to the bonuses? You are bumbing into the wall that we all deal with. Like I've said, you can't have a total proto character. The racial bonus from gallente help a bit for your equipment. This is another example of customization and specialization... and get your suit up to advanced and proto - big pg/cpu jumps there. You will also need your skills in PG and CPU maxed out as well. We can't have it all - every slot stacked with proto. I still rally for this with either skill extensions or suit upgrades (beyond proto ) but this is not the place for that discussion. 3. While the total SP is 500K for that first group, how do you determine the ISK cost to get there? That doesn't seem to be in any of the googledocs based build tools (or am I just missing that part?) I never really have considered the isk perspective. Is that on what the skills cost? or how much isk your suits are eating up? I recommend using your free suits and the isk you recieve should cover your costs and increase - make a profit - over time if you are playing wisely. If you are loosing more than you are making in battles then it is time to just use the free stuff for a while to build up your reserves.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 408	Posted - 2013.08.19 18:10:00 - [37] - Quote Tucker Wayne wrote: What are your thoughts on shield energizer vs shield recharger? At basic level, recharger gives 15% recharge and energizer gives 25% with -2% shield. My shield at this point is 274, so I go to 270, a negligible difference. For shield builds the energizers are a great payoff if you can get out of battle fast enough to get the chance to recharge. However, the CPU cost is great and we all fight that cost. Many of the shield tanks I play with use the energizers.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 422	Posted - 2013.08.23 18:27:00 - [38] - Quote Chad Michael Murray wrote: As Gallente I've skilled up to the 5 mill mark and have leveled armor upgrades, armor plating and repair systems up to V as well. I was wondering if there's anything else worth skilling into before taking the leap into logi DS V and what my options are for "extra" high/low slots. I've been running a damage mod/cardiac regulator; not too sure if there's something better out there to fill up the slots though~ Depends on if you are satisfied that you have found your playstyle, if so I would thing you are fine. Going Proto will give you max racial bonus even if you use a standard logi suit. Plus proto gives you the extra slots, more CPU/PG, and with that you can start all sort of new builds. I usually go for the tank factor and great equipment. The bonuses that Gallente receives allows you to make the most of the equipment allotment.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 436	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:06:00 - [39] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: Two part question: 1. From folks who have more experience, are the Dren Logistics M-1 and the Sever Logistics M-1 suits, being the only BPO available on the logistics side, worth picking up if you didn't go Minmatar Logi? (Does the Dren M-1 suit have skill requirements like the Sever M-1 does?) 2. With the differences in play style between Logi suits as you move from Basic to Proto is there a disadvantage (other than sheer time and SP) to pick up a secondary Logi suit chain? (~324K SP for basic and then 821K SP for Advanced) Given that you can use Neo variants to try out the next higher version once you reach Skill levels 1 and 3? 1. NOPE, not worth it. Even then it is only the first level of the logi suits - so unless you go Minmatar logi they are not worth it. 2. I see not problem other than the SP drain. I've wanted to go into another (currently Amarr) to retake my Minmatar suit... but I might go Gallente for the equipment bonus (but even those are slated to change). I have a friend that the runs a heavy and also went into minmatar scout for knifing fun. Do want you want , but most make an alternate PSN account for a new character.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 436	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:07:00 - [40] - Quote removed

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:29:00 - [41] - Quote Speaking about Armor plates, I usually wont use more than 1. The speed penalty is too great and the TTK (time to kill) seems little affected by more armor. I focus on reps - surviving the fight to then be able to repair myself and others.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 471	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:11:00 - [42] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I'm gonna say it, can this become the official position of the Logi community on the matter? Everybody agree? On another topic what do you think the next go to gun for logis will be? I'm talking about the new Rail Rifle or Combat Rifle (and placing my bets on the CR) I don't know about official but it is my opinion. With every new whiner we have to come to the front and again argue the facts, that haven't changed for a good long time. At some point we either believe that CCP has heard both sides or we believe that only the loudest side will be heard. I watched the keynote for dust and eve 2013 again that celebrated 10 years of EVE and 13 as the group CCP. I have to trust CCP. When we brought up the poor and flailing Amarr logi we were heard and the suggestions that we offered were largely heard and changed. Because it was a well worked conversation with points from both sides. And while the solution was not perfect, everyone getting what they wanted, it did make a balanced logi suit. So, at this point I just hope we have been heard and that we come up with ways to balance the dropsuits, skils, and equipment to make CCP's job easier. Always ask for the optimal, the best, the just over balanced as many are going to be wanting to be less and to change what may be appropriate into a situation like asking your parents for a loan. It doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be uncomfortable. Ultimately, if someone says to nerf the logi - reply with "Your wrong, those arguments have already been settled in the past" and then, "what we should do is: _______" and that is where you insert your good idea for balancing the other dropsuits. Good luck. Rail Rifle seems pretty boss.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 471	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:12:00 - [43] - Quote Cosgar wrote: RedBleach wrote: .... I've just about done all I can over the past 6 months. My advice to any dedicated logibro, new and old, is to skill into a sidearm just in case if CCP gives in to the forum whining. Given their track record, things don't look too good for us. It could very be. But i would urge for 2 side arms then for some variety. Remember that when you skill you should be trying to use a gun that best fits your playstyle. Some own with the Flaylock, for me it is the SMG.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 471	Posted - 2013.11.13 04:46:00 - [44] - Quote Recently Posted: Quote: Meeko Fent wrote: If we buff everything else up to an OP items standards, then that masks the originally planned balance and TTK. If we buffed every gun up to the level of TAR, what do you think would be wrong? If we buffed every gun up to the level of the flay what do you think would be wrong? If we buffed every suit up to the level of the CalLogi, what do you think would be wrong? Its the one outlier among the med frames. If you throw it out, the scale of HP between suits is much more reasonable, and balance is a bit better with heavies having their HP range far from that of a med frame can reach. Buffing everything up to an OP item isn't how balance works. Here you are trying to redirect the my comment - the TAR and Flaylock are not an issue as the community at large recognized the imbalance. Buffing them would have lead to shorter TTK and we would be speaking to that now instead. Also, to buff everything isn't actually a way to find balance, but perhaps you are speaking to buffing just a few things - yeah, that does work - like the dropsuits, weapons balances in the past, recent buff to heavies, and equipment, etc. Try to keep focused here. As far as i have seen the originally planned balance fell away long ago, while it is desired it can no longer be framed as we have seen it. CCP knows. They have meetings about the original vision of the game and what it looks like now. Remember EVE had many plans that were changed along the way because it made a better game overall (watch the EVE keynote and you'll get it). Right now the Logi suits are great (please reread original post), but the others lack in skills, class, and flexibility... but they got the logi right. Now it is time to make the other suits also perform at their best and bring more than just face burning to the game. The issue is with the Flexibility of the logi that comes with the CPU/PG and module slots and class/race skills of the Logistics class. The arguments are about how to give the other suits flexibility also. So the choices revolve around two view points: Make everything suck (reduce logis to the current vanilla and unbalanced dropsuits that we have now) or make all suits awesome (raise them to a balanced level). What you seem to be saying is that if we used your solution to get rid of the logi suits altogether - your second to last sentence - that would solve the suit imbalances. That is wrong. Speak to each of the many people that use the other dropsuits and ask them if they think their suit is balanced. That the skills, the stats, the modules, the racial bonuses, etc. are all good and that nothing else needs changed. You know the reply that you will get - no, they are not balanced (for those who couldn't guess). So, your solution to remove the logi suits does not solve the imbalance problem. If you can offer something that is constructive on how to do that then do so; like an idea about skill trees or new dropsuit values that you believe would even everything out. To merely reference past changes only shows us that more change is on the way. Would you like it to be balanced the first time or a year of suck before the community sees its mistake and asks for better suits?
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 479	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:19:00 - [45] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Each day, I send a Corp mail to my basic training corp, Immortal Guides. It is a Tip-of-the-day sort of thing. Generally it is a section of a guide. Because I have an EVE account I can cut and past into the in-game mail. Although I have many guides, my Corp has been running for many many days. So I am starting to run out of material. Would it be ok if I send portions of this guide as a tip of the day to my Corp? Credit to the author would be given. No problem, I would ask you to include a note or a link on where it came from. Though I put alot of this together there have been many mercs that helped critique it into what it is now.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 479	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:35:00 - [46] - Quote Veka Kari wrote: Cosgar wrote: Edit: And the logi nerf topics are starting up again. Someone remind me why I throw my ISK and KDR down the toilet to support teammates that thank me with nerf complaints? Strongly agree on those points. This whole "nerf the logi" argument is, IMO, due to the fact that we have a WHOLE lot more options to play with. Logistics suits are truly the highlight of module based game play and offer a wide variety of customization's to many situations. Before I sacked all my Logi fits to rebuild them, I had nearly 15 different fits at different levels at different costs, and each time I found myself doing better, war point wise, than the best of my squad. Even though I strongly agree that other suits should get buffs, the logi is in need of a redesign. Before you stone me to death for saying what could be considered sacrilegious hear out this point. Lo-+gis-+tics (n) : the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies. This means pretty simply, we are coordinators, planners and true support. We are not combatants, we are command, and we are support. The best way to fit that definition is to not think combat wise, and more strategically and tactically. A few suggestions to this would be, and may even create a new class if you think about it: Large radar (50m) with team sharing passive scan (no wp bonus for this), with a nerf to weapon damage by at most 25%, at least to 10% Repair tools buffed by 10% (per logi level) Shields/Armor (race dependent) buffed by 5% per logi level Active scanning (which works as a bonus to the logis already increased team sharing radar), buffed by 10m/level Other than this give a single racial and things can look super differently for the logistics class. If you think that I am spouting nonsense feel free to say, but to my last breath I will defend this option, because I believe that it is in the true spirit of logistics. Everything else, such as the current LogiBro mentality, is really the Medic Mentality. By the way, RedBleach LeSanglant, when I came across your guide I was already 2m SP in, but since then I have followed your guide closely, and now I am a pretty successful 9m SP Proto Logi that can achieve at minimum 1500 WP per match. If there were a way I could help contribute, I would hope this post shows it. Dude, thank you. And well done on your progression. Which suit did you choose? To your point on the upgrades. I agree that the logi suit is the most versatile. Hopefully we will see a re-balancing of all the suits in the future that will allow most classes to feel that way as well. Larger passive radar - seems to be more of a scout bonus (in need of some real love) but I could see this as a possibility for a racial bonus. Damage nerf - I don't agree. Weapons are weapons, in the hand of a child or in the hand of an adult it still does the same damage. Repair tool class bonus - I like where you are headed, but I don't think this is the tool for every logi. Logi, as you so pointed out from your logistics defenition - is about supplies and coordination. Logis are equipment specialists but forcing each logi, or any player, to carry one specific item as a class in order to get some use from their bonus is not where I would go. Honestly I think the Current Gallente bonus should be the class bonus - all equipment PG/CPU costs reduced. Shield/Armor buff - yes. but how to go about it and how much. I believe if this happened there would be a module count nerf, similar to the amarr setup, to compensate for the increased protection. But as a medic I would like some more protection but just doing that may not allow for some to be speedy logi's. With the TTK so low it is really hard to tell if this should happen before more is worked out. Active scanning - While I would love the bonus this is also more of a scouting bonus that I feel should be left alone, that doesn't make me right, its just how I see it. Well done sir, and keep the ideas coming. Keep to the code, see you on the battlefield.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 479	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:36:00 - [47] - Quote And a big hooray for now being able to see my team mates life. There are still issues with the lock on and activation/animation time but this is a big step forward. Thank you CCP
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 496	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:23:00 - [48] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You know, with the return of the killdozer HMG heavy you may want to discuss the various rep tools and how to fit a suit for it. Personally (with many suggestions) I've built a max tanked suit with a repper, scanner, and ammo hives. Just a thought. On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me. IMHO Kin Cats are not bad on a heavy, but if you have a dedicated Logi, in particular one that is using the Big Bad Boy (BBB aka Core Focused Repair Tool) you should consider stacking as much armor as you can and simply soak up damage as you get continuosly repped. The other day I hopped in a random squad where a heavy and a logi where guarding A (the underground objective in the research lab) and I helped keep him alive. We stacked a couple of Triage hives, a Allotek for ammo and dual BBBs...I don't think his armor was dropping at all. Awesome, that is the way to roll. Keep up the good work.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 496	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:01:00 - [49] - Quote I like some of your ideas and i can see where you are coming from in your explanation. The more I have tried tackling the options and ideas about balancing the classes the more I have desired to bash my skull against a brick wall. IT is a difficult thing and I don't see how it can be done with just a few simple fixes. That said i can get behind some of your propositions. Veka Kari wrote: 1) Standardized equipment slot amounts. This means 3 at basic/adv, and 4 at proto. -- I say this because we need our toys it allows us to do what we do. Nanohives, injectors, rep tools, drop uplinks, and scanners are really staples that need to be available to logis. I like this, but it may lower the diversity of the race differences. Quote: 2) Less High and Low slots. 2 Lows and 3 Highs max. (racial modifications as needed) -- This is needed especially if we were to receive more equipment slots. You cant have everything and this sacrifice should be more than welcome by any logi especially if they had more tools at their disposal. No one needs a 1k EHP logi running around with an A/C/L/R/Sc Rifle with amped up damage, it just opens up too easily for abuse of the availability, and versatility of the class. There is abuse. But this is based on CCP's move to where the higher inherent armor, shield values, and more lower the amount of available slots (we then asume that scouts give it up for speed and low profile). However, as these values are not an increase at the complex level, only ADV and lower, it could be argued that we should be given the basic values of a naked suit, a suit ZERO if you will. The original base for the SDE release numbers offering values for suits of 1.15 - an increase of the primary value. A logi is simply the most basic suit without any deciding values built in. Heavies, Assaults, and Scouts seem to be classes that have elected to essentially have prefabricated suit that therefore allows little customization. Thus the Logi remains the most customizable - as the system deems that it should be. Do I agree with the system? Not really. So, my question is what system will bring a level of diversity to each suit build without/with destroying the current class system. Thus I must disagree with your proposal, though I do appreciate the work you did in presenting the information. The model does not integrate all of the other values of the suits that CCP has determined to make them different - even though I don't agree with their system, I also can't agree with your arguments based primarily on slot counts. Quote: 3) Shield/Armor buff (at most 50 more shields and 100 more armor) -- As highlighted above, with the reduced slot layout this is pretty much needed, and a static addition should make up for the loss of 1/2 slots on both sides. Truly this would make us survivable and capable of some semi-sustained combat until backup arrives or the squad notices the yelling over the comms from the logi. Ha! I've often been that guy. For a true support class I would like this, but it loses the versatility that people desire (logissaults and more) from the logistics class. We want customization and only the logi suit provides it. That is the problem. There are not other options to essentially build whatever you want and that is what the consumer base greatly desires. Customization, not a defined cut out. Races and classes and more were supposed to fill that customization need, but if I can customize even more I will take that option over a forced format as will most others. Quote: 4) As LeSanglant suggested PG/CPU costs reduced for all races -- Obvious, surprised they didnt just do this to start with. Being the Gallogi that I am its just second nature to be able to fit All Proto equips and still have room for some modules. I really feel sorry for the other races to have to deal with the inability to do so either. This is just one step in allowing other suits to customize, but not an end-all to the many problems facing dropsuit balancing. But, it is a start. Quote: 5) Equipment buff (this one takes some explanation, I will try my best.) -- If a logi equips something, its abilities are amplified by a specific percentage depending on what it is. -- Drop uplinks capable of spawning in more infantry or spawning faster. -- Nanohives supplying more ammo/armor or supplying it faster/more effectively -- Injectors giving more armor/shields -- Rep-tools healing more or kick starting the shield regeneration by a fixed percentage. -- and maybe (to be a little selfish) scanners capable of scanning harder to scan infantry. I would like to see this in a revamped skill tree. But placing an inherent bonus for equipment on the logi class is not bad either. Thanks for your input and your ideas. Discussion, disagreement, and research is the only way I see us coming up with a decent system. See you on the battlefield... and Keep to the Code.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:16:00 - [50] - Quote Veka Kari wrote: Well, we just need to work together RedBleach in order to solve the big question of class balance. I offer to you a regular meeting session with me and anyone else who is willing to 'objectively' look at the suits, and understand that things will need to change. Honestly I think that we are up to the task. As for the other edits, I think that after we have come together we will have more time (and room) to build out these 'changes'. If you would like we could host a room on DUST, Voice chat it up, and open up a google doc. Then once we are done and satisfied with the changes send it to CCP for their mulling over. Wouldn't you like to be the people who helped balance DUST? I could do this. Just give me a day, time, and location. This would be cool.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:17:00 - [51] - Quote Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. Use whatever works for you bro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:18:00 - [52] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ninja Troll wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Ninja Troll wrote: Thanks for making this helpful guide. Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted. I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version). The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots. I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one). - Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc - I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles. My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit. I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range. I did the exact same thing, started as a sniper as well. When I snipe now (situations do still call for it) I find that the logi A/1 is a great suit for it, better than my logi C/1. Some might use the caldari because it has more high slots to put damage mods in, but more than 2-3 is really a waste and if you do that with the shield-based caldari suit you cant tank it as much to survive enemy sniper fire. (And of course the sidearm is key if you are sniping from anywhere besides a tower or deep in the redline.) Yeah I like to carry a 36db active scanner with the assault sniper fit since the suit is kind of slow. Currently debating whether to go Level 3 this week on my Amarr logi or my Minmatar Scout. I've been doing better with the tactical SR versions recently, since more zoom = more headshots. I made a cheap minja MLT fit with the std tactical SR, specifically for FW matches. Amarr logi. Level 3 is the sweet spot for the suit. Wait until scouts get buffed before going that way. I can agree with that.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 499	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:24:00 - [53] - Quote Communication is key for a logi/heavy team. If each person is not on voice coms then it becomes very difficult to work together. Telling the heavy to back off so that you can run a scan, throw down a nano hive, or whatever allows them to know when they are empowered or when they need to watch your back. It is very much a team effort. If you are just running pub matches with randoms then your main objective is to do the most good while keeping yourself alive - your tactics change drastically. But when you are together with a cooperative heavy, or team, the job is much easier and everyone will lose fewer suits. Thanks for all the input everyone
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:10:00 - [54] - Quote Sitting down today and doing alot of research for skill tree reformatting and dropsuit re-balancing. From the posts I have read from the devs like, "have some plans for the logis" to keep them from being logissaults I don't know that anything I will come up with or do will have any impact or even be worth the effort as it seems that CCP already is working out a plan they have decided upon. However, perhaps when it is released, as in the past, there will need to be some adjustments made and our efforts will then be regarded as helpful insights to fixing the issues. Good day my friends. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:01:00 - [55] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Saw this? I'm already doing my math WELL, that certainly seems to cut down the need for me to do all this work then doesn't it. :) Thanks for the heads up, I had just finished cross comparing all the dropsuit bonuses, classes, and various statistical differences and researched the similar traits from Eve and was beginning to find some solutions. I do fully feel that with the introduction of such a system a full SP refund should be in order. I went Amarr Logi, for the ability to have a swarm launcher and a sidearm. Now, I would respec out of both of those and go minmatar because love the repair tool. I absolutely hate drop uplinks and feel that it is not the Logi's job to place or carry them, that is for the rest of the team - we have to haul all the rest of this crap around to serve their needs and .... ranting sorry. Amarr bonus is crap. Gallente is Ok. Caldari is OK. And Minmatar is OK. But I Do NOT like the idea of tying one piece of equipment to a specific race. - besides there is still the issue of adding bonuses to equipment that they are still having difficulties coding around. So, how true is this? I don't know, but so far I don't think this is the best solution we can come up with. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:54:00 - [56] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Race of Logi Suit? Have you followed the tutorial? Have you followed the first 5 million SP plan? It is outlined there, but to help you along you should have many different fittings depending on what your goal is. Generally move to the advanced level in dropsuit when you have advanced modules to place in it. Same for the proto. Proto modules first, then proto suit. And you are acting correctly to be often using standard gear and saving your advanced gear for occasions when your are running with a good squad or your corp mates. A good rule to follow is to ask them what they are running. If they are running only militia gear - don't put yourself on the line. If they are running ADV or Proto, you should follow suit. BUT NEVER play with what you aren't willing to lose. There is not established level of HP needed. Some speed tank, Armor tank, Shield tank, Gank Tank, or Cloak Tank. Use what feels best for you. What you quoted is what I often use. [quote Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad?[/quote] Yes. For example running with an adv squad I will often use a 2 stream repper so I can easily jump between the many people in the team and offer some protection while they trade fire with the enemy and move in and out of cover. Deploy hives for the team and run about between them for reps, ammo, pickups, scans, etc. you are looking after many people and trying to keep yourself alive. When you run with a heavy your commitment is to them first and squad second. Full communication (mics) to call out to pull back or move or if you need to switch equipment and repps are going down. I suggest a proto core repper, and you tank with your best gear and reppers to heal yourself because you will be taking fire if you cant rep from cover. Your Chubby Chaser fit will be very different from your normal squad fits. I would suggest Proto repper, adv scanner, and stick or hive for equipment. Lows complex profile dampener, adv or comp plates, complex repper and another plate if you can. Highs extenders and a recharger or energizer. It depends on your race for tanking strenghts, but the rep tool is the most important fit. Quote: Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? Nope, most people don't touch it as the trade offs and fitting costs don't appear to be worth it for most logi fits. Quote: What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? The Balance depends on your race - see the beginning of the race descriptions. Certain races and their inherent skills lean more toward armor or more toward shields. But that doesn't stop a caldari logi from slapping on a few plates for protection (they are shield biased). It depends on how you play. Easiest first. Armor is constantly repaired, even during combat. but it is your last barrier between you and death. Higher with reps is generally better but at the cost of movement speed. Shields, when damaged, take time before they begin to recharge at a specific rate - this is the shield recharge delay. for most logis it is around 6 seconds. For six seconds your shields will not move- though your armor will. Regulators shorten the delay for shields to recharge Rechargers and energizers increase the amount of shields you recharge each second once they begin to recharge. Some people prefer all of it, others prefer none of it. It is a question of preference, there is no right or wrong answer. When I have been playing alone i recently I just play with extenders and profile dampeners to sneak up on them as I'm not on their radar they forget that there may be danger. No regulators, no plates. But with a group I will pull out some better gear and tank and stay with them. Quote: Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline. Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. Because there are no right answers I only make suggestions and leave the learning and customizing to you so that you can figure out what you like best. I don't want to stifle a budding playstyle as mine has changed as I've learned tips from others. I know that we all like some definition for guidance so I will consider adding it. Most of my builds rarely break 400 hp in standard gear. In Adv and proto They may be about 500. One issue we are dealing with is the short TTK so that even more HP does not equate directly to a longer life - i feel your frustration. Someday this may change. It may also be your playstyle. Perhaps moving from the "rally" to more of a support role like rez, rep, and resupply that forces you to hang back with the group may be an option worth considering. I hope others on the forum will chime in. To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:56:00 - [57] - Quote CaveCav wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suitGÇÖs strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses: High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plate or Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Cardiac Regulator, Profile Dampener, or CPU/PGU mods These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad? Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role. 1) What racial suit are you running? On my ADV Caldari I run with 407 Shields and 94 Armor, on my ADV Minmatar I usually run 167 Shields 391 Armor, generally speaking if you have 500+ HP you should be fine. 2) I have many different fits, for my heavy support I run with 50% Needle, Scanner and Core Focused Repair Tool. The Core is mandatory for effective Logibroing, I like the scanner because Heavies have no eyes, you can swap the Needle for a Nanohive if you want. My "go-to" fit that I run with Assault squads has K2 Hive/BDR8 Triage Repper/Quantum A45 Scanner, for my Heavy Support I also tend to run with more HP. 3) IMHO no, Ferro and Reactive in their actual state are not worth the fitting cost. 4) If I understood correctly your question: shield give you less HP but they quickly reaload by themeselves. Armor gives you much more HP (72 HP for Complex Shield Extender vs 85 HP for a Basic Armor Plate) but slows you down and has not innate regen, to repair armor you need to find either a Repair Hive or have an Armor Repairer equipped (actually your Logi skill gives you up to 5 HP/sec of armor repair) or have someone repair you; also armor repairs are generally slow. Shield Extenders are High Slot modules as are Shield Rechargers while Regulators are Low Slots. Rechargers give you faster shield recharge rate by boosting the HP/sec you get from regeneration (i.e. you get 30 HP/sec instead of 20 HP/sec) while Regulators shorten the delay after which your shields start recharging (i.e. you'll have to wait 4 seconds instead of 6 before the recharge starts). Armor Plates and Repairers are both Low Slots but you can equip Damage Mods in your highs. All Logi suits suggest armor tanking (besides the Caldari wich you can shield tank). Finally Shield Extenders are only worth at Complex level and are not cheap at all when it comes to fitting cost. Edit: I forgot to mention Shield Energizers, they give you much better recharge rates at the cost of a small % (I think it's 6% for the Complex) of your suit BASE shields Thanks for chiming in and lending a hand. The Logi Code. Guide to LogiBro Success
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 502	Posted - 2014.01.07 22:13:00 - [58] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use. 6.04 mil SP Race: Primary Minmatar Logi Suit III Secondary: Gallente Logi II Rally Build: Standard Min Logi Suit 2x Militia Profile Dampeners Militia Cardiac Regulator 2 x Militia Shield Extenders SMG Locus or Flux (sometimes A/V but not normally) R-9 Uplink / Militia Stick / BDR-2 Repper Uplink will get swapped out for the following as needed: A-86 Scanner K-2 Hive Based on how I was playing I used the 5 Mil plan as a framework I'm using BPO SMG (Syndicate) and BPO Dren gear for weapons so I don't have a 'weapon choice' made. Added Remote Explosives III Added Grenades III Added Active Scanning IV Drop Uplinks IV Nanocircuitry IV Repair Tool IV Electronics IV Engineering IV Armor Plating IV and Shield Ext IV Shield Recharge II (I wasn't using recharge modules) Shield Regulation II (I wasn't using regulation modules) Armor Repair II (I wasn't using repair modules except in scout fits) I've been tending towards Stealth/Speed tanking and the SMG reminds me that I need to stick close to my team. Thats a decent fit. And if you are running solo i can see it working well. I'm sure the range on the RR's compared to the SMG doesn't help the situation, I've noticed my KDR took a dip upon their introduction. Minmatar is the speediest and also has the lowest initial HP out of the group, but is a hell of a lot better than the Gal until it hits the ADV and PROTO level. But even then, those are the two best logi's out there. I am not the best person to ask or the best logi, but i do have alot of experience and these are things that I have done. Switching up playstyles every once ina while will keep you from getting bored. You have a good fit there, but I would make a few changes and see what they do for you. First, I would suggest dropping the SMG for a time. Pick up the RR or AR - low fitting costs and see if gaining some distance on your enemies helps. They both do fine CQC and with as much as you have had to plan and strategically move your way around the map to actually get close enough to kill an enemy with your SMG the jump in range will probably surprise you, and keeping out of the way you will also have more cover and will be less likely to be surrounded or take fire from another member of the opponents squad. Remember that often additional firepower is needed more than reps that cant mitigate the damage. Second. If going solo make all your equipment except your scanner militia level, if you are going to be dying alot there is no need to loose that better equipment. Also, you may have learned by now some of the corps that are just good and ones that proto stomp, if you see their names on the opposing side just know that you are going to die and go cheap (unless your team has a chance). Third. Made an ADV fit. ADV of all your modules and then adv scanner, and whatever else you like to use. Note the price. See how many times you can die in a match (averaging 150k ISK at the end) and still make a profit. Then make a rule. I will only use it X times before I just bring out my crap gear. And stick to it. But use that fit when playing in a mic squad, and pray they don't play halo style and just throw bodies at the problems but rather try to coordinate a plan of attack. Fourth, Get that Repair tool to proto OR fight some Minmatar FW in order to get enough loyalty points to buy and use a two streamer. You will never go back. ALSO, get to proto so you can chase a heavyHMG and experience that. Even a STD Heavy can have over a thousand Armor with two plates on. The stream on the Focused Core (175HPS!) is only 10 meters so you have to stay close and still survive. Build a Chubby chaser fit. Fifth. and this will take time, Move for a complex repper module or go proto for the benefit of the passive bonus (DISCLAIMER you may want to wait as the bonuses will change in the next few months). The 3hp that you are getting as the passive bonus is not enough to follow a heavy. You need a quicker repair or a way to quickly recover HP so that you and the heavy can keep moving but also sustain some heavy fire. You can go the shields and regulators route with the Min, but I still prefer armor (2adv plate and 1complex repper). OR have another logi in the group that will be repping you when needed if you are staying in the squad. Lastly, squad with me and few of my friends if you want a different experience from your corp mates. Channel is: Redbleach Republic The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 510	Posted - 2014.01.08 05:48:00 - [59] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I'd like to chime in here on fittings. I run Amarr logi and enjoy playing a little recklessly (I don't care about my KDR and have enough ISK to sustain a certain level of stupidity) so I tank max armor and split my highs between shields and damage mods. That's my general fit, I have 5 or 6 different ADV suits with various combinations of weapons and equipment for different situations and maps, but they all have basically the same high/low slot combo of tank and gank. With one exception. On my chubby chaser fit I go max tank with a core rep tool, hive, and scanner. I figure if the heavy dies, I'm next so don't carry a needle on it. It's probably more likely that he will run out of ammo rather than he dies and I survive long enough in CQC to revive him. Scanner is huge for this fit because since it's almost all CQC, especially in a place like the Gallente facility, you have to know your surroundings. Still pondering the changes. Not happy about losing the inherent armor rep, but since I love uplinks, I guess I can live with the Amarr bonus, though I do think its a little limiting to give each suit a bonus to only one type of equipment. Thanks, every input is valuable to teach and to change minds - of CCP that is. :) The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 517	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:42:00 - [60] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Well, shields are not as good as armor currently (Used to be the other way around) because of the low TTK. Maxing out your HP seems to be the most effective build currently. If I still ran my Caldari suits (rarely now) I think I would probably either drop damage mods altogether or just use 1. Damage mods actually are not superior to just maxing out your HP, especially for a support-oriented player, and especially anything lower than a complex damage mod. Also, you need to max out shield extenders ASAP, complex extenders are much better than enhanced. Armor is the opposite, you get the same or more bang for your buck with basic plates. Build wise, probably individualizing for your playstyle is the way to go. I have one general suit with a hive, repper, and uplink that I use most of the time. I do also have a suit that is all nanohives like you are suggesting, for like a domination match or something where you will need a lot at once (sometimes I spawn in with that, drop all the hives by the battle zones, and then sneak out to the supply depot and switch to the all-purpose suit.) Well said, making your logi fit your playstyle is the best move a player can make. Even as fun as learning a new style is, being able to play how you have in other shooters is comfortable. But because Dust has its current issues High HP, dampeners, and moving from cover to cover, and flanking - if you are not already doing so - is usually good advice as opposed to just throwing body after body into a bullet storm. Extenders do feel a bit like decoration, but even just those few hit points help, and rechargers or energizers are sometimes worth it on some builds - works well for my chubby chaser fits. Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential. Thank you all for your additions. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 517	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:44:00 - [61] - Quote lee corwood wrote: CaveCav wrote: My Domination build is a two-stager. Phase 1 is a speedy, low HP, all Uplink fit, made to get to the point ASAP, hack it, and set up uplinks for the team to spawn and estabilish a foothold; is a sort of throwaway suit so is really cheap, BPO AR and mosly militia modules. Phase 2 is tankier and also has damage dealing abilities, i fit a A45 Scanner and 2 K17D (R) Hives. I run Flux grenades on both fits because equipment spam is bad. This is almost exactly my play style. My Phase 1 is actually a bpo scout with a bpo toxin machine gun and DUs. Phase 2 is ADV Min Logi with a large number to chose from depending on the situation. 80% of the time its: scanner, repper, injector. But I also have builds with ammo/REs and increasing cost builds depending on the level of the equipment I'm carrying that is dependent on how good my team is currently. Flux grenades on all. If ever we end up losing all the spawn points, I man up the DU scout again. I never expect to live in the scout, so I'm fine losing him over and over again as cheap as he is. The other day I spawned into a game we were losing but was determined to get boots back on the ground. Even though we still lost, I had a smile on my face because of how well my team kept trying. We lost all the DUs I placed earlier so I ran to the other side of the complex and laid down 2 more in opposing sides. I got killed, then my team came and flanked him on both sides and made a good push. It's amazing how much such little placements can really start to turn tides. Wasn't a win on the score board but was a win to know supporting has its place in this game. Well done, well done. Your rally approach seems most befitting. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 520	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:54:00 - [62] - Quote So, after much consideration about dropsuits and bonuses it looks like CCP already has a plan in place and will be unveiling it at one time or another. While they have given the bonuses, per Sisi, they have not given any of the suit changes. For example will PG/CPU be cut for all suits, slot changes, HP changes, etc. Thus, as it stands all that we can currently do is critique what info has been given. I will be posting my opinions about the bonuses on the forums and offering my own ideas as the week moves on. I would ask you to do the same as CCP needs the many voices and viewpoints on these subjects to make informed decisions about what to do, what to change, and how to adjust it. Granted, they may not use any of our ideas, but CCP has listened to the community when we discussed the AMARR LOGI and took some of our input there, but not all, and made it a functional and balanced suit. We have to wait until the rest of the plan is unveiled. It may not be until the day that they release it, or it may be sooner. Either way, we will have alot of work to do once we have that information. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 520	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:59:00 - [63] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential. Thank you all for your additions. Hmm.... you've almost convinced me to finally get level 5 on the core armor skill. I had been following Shay-z's advice and leaving it alone for a long time since it only applies to the base armor of the suit, not any plates. Gonna think about that one... Wait!, No, not the CORE ARMOR Upgrade skill, but the one that gives you the access tot he Plate armor: ARMOR PLATING. It ads an extra 10% once maxed out.... really only 10 percent? yest, but it is amazing how often just that little amount comes into play - i've been taken there many times. Again, it is low on the list of things to max out, but it is useful, especially at the adv level. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2014.01.25 01:22:00 - [64] - Quote Every logi should be posting on the new equipment stats. Here is what I have written: Thanks: CCP, Thank you for posting these stats early in an effort to communicate with the community. Though there are many varied opinions and replies CCP's professionalism in asking for feedback in these coming updates allows for, what I feel, will be a positive change overall. Thank you for hearing your consumer base that is desiring to respond to ideas before they are initiated and opening the door for possible insights that may not have been fully explored in house. Item Feedback: From an experienced Logibro. Deployable Equipment: These adjustments will be trouble if new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits - negates cluster limitation, DUs, and all deployable equipment. One nerf, not two please. Suit Bonus Influence: Reason for changes MUST NOT be for possible future suit bonus as that would mean the the bonuses are SET IN STONE which is another matter altogether. Changes should have reason and purpose independent of this. Drop Uplinks (DU): SUPPORTED. Currently spammed. The top level items allowing for near immediate return to battle. They renders many other spawning options irrelevant due to shortened spawn time and unique locations. They also have more HP than many of the dropsuits that are in battle. The new adjustments the new DUs, without any changes to current spawn timers at CRU's or objectives, mean sacrificing speed for positioning until the Uplinks reach the Prototype level with the spawn time either near half of what it would have been or just over a normal 10sec spawn time. I believe this to be a good change as it may shift battles to waves of skirmishes rather than a constant and unrelenting battle - as fun as it may be searching for all the uplinks and only being able to take a breath once a whole area is clear and everything hacked - could be a positive change. The drop in item health is welcomed. The resistance to players wanting this change is understandable. Nanohives: NOT SUPPORTED. Currently they may or may not last longer than the mercs that place them in battle, depending on the ammo resupplied (or triage). Whether that is because the squad using them had moved on, whether it is because they all died, or whatever the reason there are usually lone random nanohives lying about at any given time on the battlefield. That being said they are often destroyed through the exhaustion of their clusters as well depending on how each unique conflict proceeds. I find that without further information on the reason for the change that dropping each hive's cluster amount by 1/3rd (33%) is unwarranted. CCP's data may explain if more are wasted rather than used up as the reason, or somehow this shift will lead to the projected gameplay experience with waves of battle and increased TTK. Suggestion If the adjustment was made for less clusters BUT added one more deployable hive and kept the max active limit enforced then the change would be less grotesque. Allowing for limited resupply, keeping in line with the waves of battle idea, the reward for surviving would be to be being able to deploy another hive - death would eliminate that possibility and equipment would be lost/wasted. With the current limited information we have available - I do not support this change. Repair Tools: MIXED SUPPORT. Currently they repair survivors and may be used to keep a merc alive under certain amounts of enemy fire. The proposed changes alter 1 repair tool's repair rate and changes all repair tools' ranges. Core Focused Rate: IFF (IF and only IF) TTK is increased and weapon fire damage decreased -ect. - then the repair rate change is acceptable as this new playstyle may be nearly identical and a repair rate that high may be seen as acceptable. (not addressing suit bonuses here). That being said - in the current gameplay the adjustment doesn't fit as it is not quiet enough to keep a suit alive in most conflict situations. However, if this new playstyle of logi/heavy is unwanted in the projected vision of the game then the adjustment would signal the end of such useful duos and lead to needing two reppers on a soldier (removing another from battle) to accomplish the same thing - the original reason this wasn't done in the past as that kind of coordination is nearly impossible with movement and streams. Range: UNSUPPORTED. Distance is difficult to measure in this game. Sprinting F's up the hud distance and there is no readout for even guessing the distance of those lines on the radar (middle line is like 70 meters or something), but even then guessing the distance to lock onto someone was difficult enough and the current range (especially flux) allowed for working with the TERRIBLE LOCK ON MECHANIC in order to acquire a lock and begin repping the soldier. The current distance was also a buffer that allowed the logi to finish repping while the mercs sprinted away and also allowed the Logi to adjust their position during battle if keeping the merc(s) repped, to try and stay alive, while the mercs with big guns fight the red dots. Suggestions: Lock on times need adjusted (regardless of any other change - distance just made it more manageable). A range increase at each new tier. It starts that way with the next level meeting the flux distance: std 10, flux 15. Then adv 15, (No FLUX?) 18-20. Then proto 18-20, flux 23-25. Distance (useless against RRs) is how a repair logi stays alive and keeps his mercs alive. This should not change and 10m MUST be the minimum distance as it feels almost like melee combat. No lock should be closer. Active Scanners: SUPPORTED. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 528	Posted - 2014.01.26 09:06:00 - [65] - Quote Feedback requests from CCP: New Equipment Stats. Nerf to all equipment. - Cooldown times on scanners increased. Scanner functionality has been improved to do GÇ£snapshotGÇ¥ scans in order to stop 360 degree spins. - Range on repair tools reduced. and the core focused repair rate is reduced to original 125 hp/s - Drop uplink spawn times increased. - Nanohive nanite supply reduced. Dropsuit Stats and Skills. New Sentinel (heavy), Commando, and Scout bonuses. Lots of debates going on about slot and hp amounts and scout bonuses - scouts do get better generally but the amarr bonus is crap and still coming up with ideas on what to do. Weapon Stats and Ranges New pistols look OP - some debate about it, but we won't know how much of a game killer they are until they are deployed in battle - much like the RR and CR were a big surprise and are now THE dominant weapons on the field right now. On a side note Possible suit bonuses that include the medium frames of assault and logi Currently the logi and assault bonuses are a mistake. The logi has a good class bonus but the racials leave much to be desired when they could be instead incorporated into a skill tree. And the assault bonuses decrease TTK with the ROF increase and now apparently have the old logi bonuses... Currently they are the subject of much debate. The Logi Code. LogiChannel: RedBleach Republic
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 529	Posted - 2014.01.27 05:49:00 - [66] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them. Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me. Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills. Nanite Injectors I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor. I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill. I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit). NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP. ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP. On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy. SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG. For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate. Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level Repair Tools Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ). Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool. This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active. PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot) ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar) Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you) Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level Drop Uplinks Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants. HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks. COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player. Since Drop Uplinks will become a vital piece of equipment I thought about 2 possible skills: 1) -5% to Drop Uplink Scan Profile per level this would make them harder to detect for the enemy team 2) +5% to Drop Uplink Scan Radius and Scan Precision per level this would give a player an idea about the surroundings of his spawn point of choice, nobody likes to: die, wait 15 seconds, spawn, die, wait another 15 seconds Active Scanners I like the changes they are making, I'm guilty of 360-scan-spamming and it was ridiculous. Active Scanner Skills: 1) 5% cooldown time reduction on active scanners per level (with this the Creodron Proximity would be "spammable") 2) 20% to active scanner scan angle per level (so that most scanners will have a 120-¦ scan angle) ...I'm still thinking about Nanohives and Remote Explosives At one point in time CCP could not give bonuses to equipment - the coding was just not working - so Either they have fixed that and can now give bonuses to equipment for a skill tree like setup or their suggestions were difficult to create. Regardless they have also talked about ideas similar to yours in the past, like injectors that give a boost of armor or armor regen for a time. But the problems is still the coding for such actions. They would like to introduce active modules for infantry as well - this cloacking device is very close to that I think. I believe that you will see your ideas and theirs show up one day, but that may be soon or years. - more likely longer than you would think. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 529	Posted - 2014.01.27 06:03:00 - [67] - Quote RKKR wrote: Red, where did you get this piece of info: "new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits". This is the second time I heard this now but haven't seen anything of. That would definitely screw up ammo supply, I rather have a active system like the rep tool than the passive drop equipment (which turns into spam) anyway. A while ago when it was figured out that dropped equipment spam caused lag CCP was exploring ideas for curing spam issues. This was one of the ideas to cure spam and to stop mercs from constantly changing suits at the supply depots in order to regain HP and also throw down more equipment. Though the source of the lag (all the sounds of each piece of equipment spam) was eventually found this threat has never been removed from the table of CCP or CPM as to a solution to equipment spam. It is one scary idea to force a merc to run with his nano suit or uplink suit the whole of the game just to make sure people can still use those pieces of dropped equipment. In relation to the equipment spam is also part of the reason for the equipment nerf - at least that is what many mercs have thought - if equipment has a shorter lifespan like fewer clone spawns and fewer nanite clusters then they will be used up faster and help control equipment spam. It is only a theory that this is CCP's intention as they do not often share their reasons for this kind action before it is in place. Remember back to the flaylock nerf they published a reason afterwards about the number of explosive deaths was more than they wanted. The ultimate goal - well on of them anyway - of a Higher TTK may have some relation to the changes, but then again the reasons have not been shared. Please, go to the previously posted links and read and post your opinions. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 530	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:27:00 - [68] - Quote Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not I don't understand your argument here. Are your referring to a post from long ago? About the idea of the logibro? With the guide? You can understand my confusion when our most recent posts have been about upcoming changes to the equipment, suits, bonuses, and alternate ideas. So, what are you talking about? It sounds like you're are doing what a logibro is supposed to do, so good job. The only reason there is a term 'logibro' is because of the need for differentiation between support characters who use the logi suits (logibros) and characters who use the logi suit for only building slayer fits - logissaults, killer bees, whatever. I've pointed out numerous times in the guide the importance of your primary weapon and pointed to the fact that this is an FPS, or first person shooter. I've addressed the need to reinforce your team and know when to shoot and when to use your equipment... KDR is as relevant as a player wants it to be. Some may not care and to others it may be of great importance - neither you or I can define the value it has for another player. It is however important to the overall clone count for games, so being aware and conscientious about the death of each clone is smart. Additionally because of equipment a logistics build is very expensive; usually that make a player understand the need for caution and observation so as not to lose that expensive equipment. Lastly, I would imagine that most of us want to go positive in our games whether we do or not - I've not said that KDR is unimportant.... so who exactly are you arguing with? The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 531	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:38:00 - [69] - Quote I had previously commented on a statement that KDR is important by one of our new posters, but he had also posted twice so I had it reported and now apparently my post was removed with his double post... go figure. So, I'll start again. Alex Kaidou wrote: Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not KDR is only important as any given merc feels it is. You feel it is of great importance and so it is. Others don't think the same way. However not being concerned with KDR and playing foolishly are two different things. Knowing when to shoot and when to use your equipment is the sign of a good logi. It sounds like you're doing a good job at being a logi as keeping your deaths in mind helps you to be cautious in your gameplay. I advocate planning for your primary weapon often in the guide as this is an FPS game, it has support roles but it is still and FPS. Logi suits and all the equipment are expensive, just running around dying doesn't help anyone. But if the death comes because you were helping another merc, there is no shame in that for a logibro. For that reason also there was a need to differentiate between mercs that were support oriented 'logibro' and those that just used the logi suit for slayer fits 'logissaults'. Everyone eventually finds their niche in a scale between pure support to pure attack and their actions and decisions can quantify their position. Some logibros are nearly pacifists, some can barely be called a logibro - i myself am often caught in the middle deciding whether to solo a point or stay with the team; which means I often find myself on the slayer side more than I would like. But, ultimately you get to decide on how you play. I hope that the code will help you in your efforts. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 556	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:40:00 - [70] - Quote While we are still awaiting news on the possible logi bonuses from what I've been reading on the forums it seems like they will be the bonuses of the future, though I thought I saw a CCP or CPM post saying that the medium dropsuit bonuses will not be touched for 1.8. Regardless, as the dev blogs come out and more is known I will be adjusting the guide to match the new bonuses and include the reasons behind such choices. Secondly there has been a post from a CCP dev stating that all respec conversations happen under a specific thread. I urge you all to visit and post your thoughts on the subject. I personally vote for a complete refund of dropsuits, core, and weaponry as many of the choices we have made were based upon the current roles and suits we use. With so many new additions and bonus changes I support a refund as the only viable alternative. See the thread here: Official Respec/Refund Thread The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 556	Posted - 2014.02.20 02:58:00 - [71] - Quote My post about the possible bonuses of the future was worded in a way that left the interpretation pretty loose. What I meant was that the proposed logi bonuses (the ones you guys have reposted :)) are most likely slated to become a reality as we have had no further input from the blue tags. Though I believe that our opinions were heard i don't know that it changed much - but a small part of me is excited in believing that they will change the racial bonuses and move them to an actual equipment tree (I also realize that this is my desire and not shared by the whole of the community). I don't know that I support your point about it being a fair shake John Demonsbane, The new class bonus is spot on - i disagree with the racials - but with an equipment nerf as well I feel as if the class is loosing more ground than it is gaining. Perhaps that is just the pessimist in me and with all the other adjustments things will actually turn out all right. Like we have both said: we just need some more information. Time will tell. The Logi Code. The Path of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 563	Posted - 2014.02.22 21:03:00 - [72] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities. And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate? The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 564	Posted - 2014.02.22 21:42:00 - [73] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit. But the changes potentially mean that skilling up in all of the Logi suits may become much more common. I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities. And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate? I think he's talking about dropping a plate in favor of a repair module. As for the rest, that's what so maddening about this whole thing. Devs keep dropping into topics and leaving one little nugget of information but little else! We really just don't know what's going to happen in the big picture. I'm beginning to think that they really are doing it on purpose to mess with us... Ah, Thank you for the insight. My mind hadn't quite made it there. And you are completely right - Nothing is confirmed until it is out - I guess I'm feeling pretty pessimistic, and the attitude on the forums is generally one of ennui, and even the devs are stressed... I just see it going in this big circle of negative reinforcement. I should do my part to change that. Thanks for keeping a neutral perspective John. I should emulate the same behavior. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 565	Posted - 2014.03.02 03:14:00 - [74] - Quote It would be cool if the nanite injectors were affected by the caldari bonus as well, but I wouldn't count the caldari logistics out yet. Depending on how the feedback was received for the equipment as well as the suits will determine the ultimate fate of the logi. That being said I wouldn't count the Caldari logistics suit out yet, those nano bonuses to the repair rate will be awesome if there is a way to continually resupply the hives. If there is some sort of equipment-limiting-change the need for hives will remain the same but the requirement to die in order resupply them will be ridiculous; unless the resupply points will refill equipment slots. Regardless, the current bonuses that relate to disposable equipment are powerful but also more limited due to their temporary nature. But they are commonly the greatest SP earners. It is the Gallente bonus that will not net as much SP, but that will be made up for with carrying other equipment; just as the Minmatar will have to do (depending on the repping available in a match). The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 567	Posted - 2014.03.02 21:37:00 - [75] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: With nanite injectors and triage hives working on armour only, I still feel that equipment is a bit of a mismatch for the Caldari race... Any whispers on hybrid (shield/armour) versions on either anytime soon? Not that I have heard of, but I do agree that something like that would be a boon on the battlefield. And while I can't argue about lore reasons for the nanites (because I am not that versed in them) a shield transporter would seem more appropriate. I would also like to have the hybrids that you and other mercs have alluded to. Just because one type of technology originated or was more prominent with one race or another does not mean that the other races do not have their variants that work better in some ways or are converted for use in another piece of equipment. While that view is a little more 'big picture' I also understand that this is a game and because of that certain boundaries need to be maintained. Still, I hope for things like that. The equipment spam and restocking is a careful balancing act for the game, though I would like to see some balance conversations from CCP. I look forward to what CCP has in the works for the future. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 568	Posted - 2014.03.09 05:20:00 - [76] - Quote With the medium frame slot count not yet released but knowing that there will be some stat adjustments to the medium frame, irrespective of a slot overhaul, I would add a word of caution if the respec goes through. -WAIT- Seriously. When suit changes hit along with new variants for each class I have no doubt that we will want to jump into a new suit to commit to one bonus or another. But I would caution you to hold off until we know more because it sucks to make a change, commit, and then have that choice adjusted later on (we have all experienced it). So rather than risk the logi community, well medium frame community, crying for another respec after such changes we should look at our limited options. 1. We could choose to wait for the slot changes before committing to a suit. Focus on core upgrades, equipment, and a weapon or two while we wait for more news. 2. Knowing that some of us are committed to a race or bonus, regardless of changes, we will make the suit choice regardless of the future. 3. Choose a different class altogether - Scouts are the new Logi-lights. Or flee the logi life and suit up in something a little heavier. Whatever you choose - there may be more choices as this was a quick note - know that it will be most likely be permanent. I support a respec, but do with that all the large changes were in before a respec. Or a skill revamp altogether. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 568	Posted - 2014.03.09 08:22:00 - [77] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: AFAIK, they won't be changing the medium frames much in 1.8. Admittedly that thread regards the Amarr assault specifically, but I do believe it applies to all of them. I'm not as certain about base stats but I'm pretty sure slot counts are not being touched. That said, SP restraint is always good advice. Last few comments from the Devs like Logibro stated that there will be changes in 1.8 to med dropsuit stats but that the slot count will need to wait for another time, didn't quite make it into this one. That being said I believe it was CPM or was it Saber wing that said there would be not changes to the medium dropsuits at this time (1.8) so who knows. What I would base my previous statement on is the dev posts from the last month about such changes, one of which you helpfully pointed out. Slot PG/CPU balancing is coming. (march) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1903789#post1903789 "Expect those changes to come at a later date." Base Stat Changes Coming (Feb) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1825406#post1825406 "Just to add, the Medium Frames are all getting some base stat adjustments, but no changes to slots (though that's not ruled out for post 1.8)" Whether they will all wait until after 1.8 or if CCP will give some now and then some later i don't know, or if there are changes beyond the PG/CPU and slot changes slated, but like you I think it will be interesting to see. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 568	Posted - 2014.03.09 08:41:00 - [78] - Quote Thank you lee, though the file provided is in error the main page has the values, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370&find=unread And the picture provided http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/DUST/Medium_Frames.png While CCP had provided the new planned bonuses tday is the first time I saw the planned medium suits. IT INCLUDES changes to Armor HP, Shield HP, Shield Recharge values, Armor Reps, Hacking Speeds, Stamina, and Stamina Recharge ect.... So, I will be updating the guide. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 597	Posted - 2014.06.05 04:35:00 - [79] - Quote Wow, sorry for the long absence - i recently moved to another city to work for a startup company that is eating all of my hours and now I finally found an apartment so I can move my family up with me - just very busy IRL. Hotfix Alpha just hit and I'll run through the guide again to see what may need to be changed. THis last week I was running entirely proto gear - and lost 30 million but had a great time doing it. With the announcement of Project Legion there is much to look forward to - for both dust players and those jumping to legion or even playing both. The communication from the Devs has been a welcome addition, it seems to come in phases, but welcome regardless. CPM 1 position is OPEN. Currently I will throw whatever influence I may have behind Cross Atu. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 597	Posted - 2014.06.05 04:49:00 - [80] - Quote Cross Atu for CPM1. You might ask why I would post such a thing in this logi thread, that is because Cross was also here in the beginning and has helped influence the path that this game has taken. He has helped me figure out pieces to the logi puzzle and has had a great deal to say during CCP's requests for input and any discussion that lends itself to making Dust 514 an overall better game. For that reason every player should get involved, new and experienced, and throw your voice behind a candidate that you feel will best represent the playerbase. There are many decent applicants and after reading so many posts over the couple years I've been involved with dust Cross has continually had a gift for reason, logic, and balance that I think is hard to find in other candidates. Others are perhaps more outspoken or get more attention but Cross Atu has usually been ahead of the subjects that they address and already began a presentation of the issues and proffered solutions backed up by his ability to round out each statement. Given the time I believe Cross can sway the opinions and views of the CPM, Dev's, and the players because he takes the time to listen, explain, and re-address an issue so that everyone's point is fully developed and understood by those involved. In that kind of atmosphere the best solution usually arises and is supported by all involved. It is what I have seen in the past and it is a future that I could look forward to. RedBleach supports CPM1 Candidate Cross Atu - it is the logical choice. The Logi Code. The Way of the Logibro

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 614	Posted - 2014.07.08 06:08:00 - [81] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: AR - [b]the Assault Rifle is a standard piece of equipment on the battlefield that works better on armor than shields. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill. The GEK or Exile/Dren/Toxin (BPO from Merc Packs) AR is alright for a Logi, at advanced levels the TAC AR (TAR) and other rifle variants open up. + can go 1v1 and live in medium to short range battle + versatile weapon with variants + moderately easy to fit - you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team. - out distanced/RoF/damaged by other rifles. AR is better against Shields, as it is a Gallente Weapon. Sorry for the minor gripe, but it is imperative Logi Bros know this. So few of us truly left already Wow, can't believe I missed that... a sad day indeed. but thanks for catching it - I'll get it changed right away :) Makes me wonder if it was always that way...... it has been too long, to long to remember the early years, the good old days when bullets flew straight and skills made them fly farther. Thanks again for shaking me from my sleep The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 619	Posted - 2014.07.13 18:08:00 - [82] - Quote As an aside: wanted to point out some errata to your otherwise excellent thread, RedBleach: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: MAG Sec- It is the shield eating variant of the SMG. The Magsec's bonus is to armor, not shields, my man.[/quote] Seriously! Where is my HEAD? You are right - don't know what I was thinking. As far as weapons are concerned there is a great amount of disparity between them and their uses. When looking at one that you can use ALWAYS I would shoot for the AR or CR. The AR is always there for me but I feel it has a very difficult time finishing of my opponents because of its ability to remove shields - The SCAR is even more difficult for me, and the fitting costs are outrageous. That being said I am the spray and pray type as I prefer automatics to the semi-automatics - its just better for me and I cant track and time trigger pulls because of an old injury. As the CR is better at destroying armor I tend to favor it or the SMG when running with a pack because I can usually finish of an opponent easier with one of them than any other rifle as they are ususally already damaged. The delay with the RR and MagSec are ridiculous - really only surmountable for me if at optimal distance - in CQC i cant make them work, but many do.... good for them. Hope that can answer some questions - feel free to test it on an alt character before committing it to your main weapon. Don't wast that precious SP. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 622	Posted - 2014.07.13 22:35:00 - [83] - Quote lee corwood wrote: FYI: Hotfix Charlie "Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier." And thanks for the heads up about this. John Demonsbane has been on it along with a fellow named Pokey Dravon who has some really good things to say bout these adjustments. I've seen Cross Atu and several other logi defenders and just level headed minds taking this subject on. There are really two issues the Slot Equalization of tiers and the Amarr Side arm. Slot Equalization We don't know if this means 12 at proto like the Minmatar or 10 or 11. The number of slots has not been shared. We don't know if it will be 3 std, 3 adv, 4 proto or 2 std, 3 adv, 4 proto. We don't know how they will bring the two logis with 3 EQ to the table and balanced. The Gal and Min are there - though equalizing the steps between tiers will be interesting to see for the GAL and CAL BUT the AMR and the CAL are the two question marks. The CAL has a great slot amount but a hard time with fittings, while the AMR has a low slot count, terrible bonus, and a sidearm. Will they benefit from 4 EQ slots? Currently NO. Neither has the fitting power to accommodate their current bonuses, adding another slot would be ridiculous. But if, as some dev conversations have be thinking about, there were a huge increase to the fitting bonuses for logis then the PG/CPU of both the MED Assault and MED Logi frames were brought in line with each other. More is in the works The Amarr Side Arm Two Views: Keep it or dont. Most of the logi community feels it should stay, as do I. Currently the Amarr logi's bonus is the side arm - remove it and there is little else that is special about it. So do we adjust this logi to have no side arm and 4EQ slots - abysmal. or keep it at the 3 EQ + side arm but bring the other slots into alignment. Could look something like a 3/5/3 + sidearm for Amarr and maybe a 5/3/3 +sidearm for CAL if it went that direction. There has been talk of sharing lesser versions of all the racial bonuses as the logi bonus so that logis will always just logi better than any other class - an idea I would certainly like. I urge each logi to visit the Hotfix Charlie discussions and weigh in. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 627	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:01:00 - [84] - Quote Just a post from one of the many balancing threads. Throwing the Assaults a bone. A PROPOSAL I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion. My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like. Defining the MED Frames The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots. The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious. Make the ASSAULTs mean. THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS. THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA) Keep the LOGI stats as they are now. ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned. First the LOGI A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes) UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus) AMARR SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)..........ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change) S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm................................S- 3H/3L/2E A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm ................................A- 3H/4L/3E P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm.................................P- 4H/5L/3E CALDARI SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)......ORMODULE Focused (Unique) S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm ....................................S- 3H/3L/2E A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm .....................................A- 4H/3L/3E P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm .....................................P- 5H/4L/3E EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ) GALLENTE S- 2H/3L/3E A- 2H/3L/3E P- 3H/5L/4E MINMATAR S- 2H/2L/3E A- 3H/3L/3E P- 4H/4L/4E Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements. ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way. AMARR EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm CALDARI EQUAL to log.........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm..............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm..............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm GALLENTE EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm MINMATAR EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules. Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module. Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules. Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules. Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules. ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless. It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GÇª but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality. IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move. ThatGÇÖs all I got for now. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 635	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:13:00 - [85] - Quote Well it was an idea anyway. I just don't want CCP to nerf logis just to try and get more people to play assaults. Hell, I would probably go assault if they had the most modules. But bringing them even to the same proposed module count as the logis would make them very powerful. Enough to stem the tide of nerfing? I don't know. I do know that HOTFIX Charlie has brought up, more like dredged up, previous ideas and new ideas from some great sources. I like the thinking that is going on in these threads when they don't just boil down to shield vs. armor arguments. Like I said, I don't have all the answers, but I do like my logi suits. I would like to see the bonuses redone to 15% (at least) for equipment fitting be a class bonus. I would like some sort of racial defensive bonus - just slight, just enough help me slow the loss of suits that are more expensive than all other setups. I would like the Race bonus to be an amalgam of all the 'LOGI' equipment so that logis will always use that equipment better than any other class. I would like to see My Amarr retain their sidearms. I would like............................................................................world peace. :) hahah well here anyway. In Dust war is good for business. I hope for the best; in this game and for all of us. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 636	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:27:00 - [86] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Just saying...your best racial defense should be finding a heavy. If you see none, switch to a basic logi and lay fallback points, as your team most likely won't be holding be holding a point long without one Always having a chubby to chase would be nice. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 637	Posted - 2014.07.19 23:23:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Rattati has responded to further discussion about Logistics class slot layouts and less dramatic gaps in tier progression for Logis. This would tremendously affect Gallente and Caldari Logis in a big way. Also Standardizing the Slot count would mean another slot for our Amarr Logi brothers that have always been shorted in that department. Lastly, The standardization of logis may mean a division of passive logis and active logis. The Amarr and CAL that just drop their equipment would both have sidearms - one shield race and one armor race - would be considered the passive logis. While the Active logis would be the MIN and GAL that have the most equipment slots and bonuses that react with equipment that doesn't get used up. (repper and scanner) See the discussion here. Hotfix Charlie: Dropsuit Slot Equalization The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.05 22:00:00 - [88] - Quote Though delayed it seems that the slot adjustments and tier adjustments are a go. But when it will happen is another question altogether. If that gets squared away the next logi push should be focused on the Logistics class bonuses I think. We will also want to look at the sidearm discussions that are cropping up for hotfix Delta. This is a good age for a logi. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.06 17:42:00 - [89] - Quote You have very valid points, and I do hope they all get addressed by CCP in the future. My biggest hope is that the Logi Bonuses will solve that issue. Looking at some way to ensure that a logi is always the best at carrying/using gear. The thoughts have revolved around a race bonus that emphasizes 1 trait and to a lesser extent the other 3 race bonuses. That way a logi will always out-logi any other class. something small but still noticeably better. instead of a 25% to reps Like the Minmatar the other races will have a 10% or something - there has been alot of discussion and I think it is headed in the right direction. This would Keep you CalLogi still in the game - unless you run all nanohives, I would like the nano bonus to be higher and maybe add an extra hive along the way. But we will see. Perhaps the PG/CPU adjustments will happen around that time as well. It is hard to feel that this is a win if the issues you feel need to be spoken to are not getting taken care of. I have no idea how dust will proceed in the future, but the future is all I can look forward to. The ride with CCP has been difficult and not always what I expect. Good or bad, it is what it is. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.07 22:08:00 - [90] - Quote You are right that the Gal and Cal Logi are underused for their respective bonuses. My opinion was that a logi would choose these two races for the slot layout possibilities over the actual bonus. - even with the bonuses not being that great for these two. - Honestly I feel that the Min has the best. Commenting on why it is 'good' is more that the tiers are being adjusted for each race so that each tiered logi can be on the same slot level as each race. rather than a Gal having only 2 lows while the Min has 4 H/L. With the proposed changes each tier can now be seen as on equal footing rather than a need to switch to ADV level Cal and Gal to compete in slot power with the Amarr and Minmatar. The other positive from the changes is that logis are being looked at again and not just glossed over. Your concerns with the bonuses of both the GAL and CAL are not new, they have been at the center of logi discussion since the change happened so long ago. What is different now is that we are seeing options rather than just living with what has been given to us. Now we can see if our voices will be heard in the Delta or Echo fixes. The Division of Active and Passive Logis It was either separate the logis into two groups or have them all be the exact same - still with current bonuses. Had it gone the other way and the Amarr lost its side arm and all the suits were tier equalized anyway and now had 4 EQ at the proto level, where would you stand? I would argue that your position would still be the same - the changes you (and most of us) want to see (bonuses) have still not been addressed. Therefore, we still harp on the same thing. Thus the stance was that: If the bonuses were off the table (as they were for the Charlie discussion) what else can be fixed with the logi classes? One glaring issue was tier progression and slot equalization. - now it is fixed. Now we can move on to a, "What's next?" discussion with CCP but must wait for their schedule. And when they are open for discussions on bonuses topic we will have alot to say. I agree that the logi bonuses need some work, but there is some hope. So besides the bonuses what needs to be fixed with logis? Because the next hotfix PG/CPU adjustments are due and a few other changes. Lets be ready. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 650	Posted - 2014.08.08 23:19:00 - [91] - Quote I'm with you John: I'm somewhat confused by the most recent postings about removing the side arm from the Amarr. The last indepth discussion I had with Rattatti on the forums moved towards the tier equalization and 2 logis with sidearms AMR and CAL. But, as Arkena Wyrnspire said, wait and see. @RKKR: Your idea about infinite equipment with cool down periods is unique to me, i've never heard it, and we should throw it out there during the delta patch discussions. I like the initial idea... I'll take some time and think on it, what problems do you see with it? The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 654	Posted - 2014.08.29 21:04:00 - [92] - Quote Unlimited equipment: even regulated to a certain number per time limit I agree that equipment spam would take over. Now nearly every class could spam as well and never worry about running out of ammo or rephiving just before a fight. That said, I would like the logis to carry a +1 to the disposable equipment. For bonuses I do like John Demonbane's bonus solution - but also along with that note there is a current CPM discussion with CROSS ATU about what to do with the logi. Bonuses, Stat adjustments, etc. I suggest you all check it out if you haven't done so already - I've seen a few of you there already, really good stuff. It is nice to have a Logi on our side in the CPM Link The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 664	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:37:00 - [93] - Quote Still here :) Just got back, but still here. I am saddened that I missed the Feedback and Input possibilities for the 1.9 Update and the new APEX Logi options. I've picked up one and am scanning the others to see what might be fun. I was disappointed that there were Zer0 Quafe logistic suits. But happy with the respec - I bought 2. One so that I can play with soooo many options I didn't have the chance to explore earlier, and Two so I can level what I should when I find those options I like the best. But I am here now and am educating myself on some of these new changes before jumping into the feedback discussions. I have emphasized some of the changes that came around with 1.9 (scanners, needles, etc.) and truly I await a shift in the logistics class, but until then I will be on and off the battlefields as life permits. PS - never went the GTA way, but I did come back and Hellstorm was GONE! I like the guys but it is ghost-town in there :) Maybe I'll check the site and see if they have broken up or just moved on to Destiny or some game like that. So.... any suggestions where an old logi might fit in? The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 667	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:39:00 - [94] - Quote Thank you all for the updates and specifically a big thank you to Kaze Eyrou for reviewing all of that with me. I believe I have added it all to the guide. I am thinking of re-organinzing it a bit and I may need to contact CCP for some added area in order to cut and past and rework it a bit.... I don't know if that is possible. Or it would be time to start a new LogiCode thread... which I am reticent to do. There is just so much good stuff here, and so much heart. Or maybe I should pass the torch... have I been away to long? Can I come back and be as committed to Dust as I was before? Or have I lost that naivete, the sweet innocence and belief in this world? This is what keeps me up at night :) after playing of course. And I to am now on the FW path. Looking at the suits I crave the Amarr. All of them. That will take some time. I hope the offer will be up for a while. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 678	Posted - 2014.11.16 04:51:00 - [95] - Quote It has been months but I really want to hear some news from CPM or DEV on the progression of Logis. REALLY want some word. But that is hard to come by. I await word from Cross Atu... but I want it now, it is the weekend and my mind is reaching out to nostalgic hopes from dreaming memories. ... ... I will wait. Like the iron soldiers that eternally watch from the walls of the empire. I watch... and I wait. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 733	Posted - 2015.02.20 20:35:00 - [96] - Quote I've Been holding off on remaking this thing in the hopes of seeing some changes to logis, but I see now that I should just do it anyway and readjust it with possible future changes. My apologies for the delay my friends The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 780	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:42:00 - [97] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: So I've somewhat came back to Dust514. Saw that I downright sucked with the Rail Rifle and decided to switch to the only other weapon I'm skilled in, Assault Rifles. With that said I am curious about my module selection's adequacy as a MinLogi. Got a Complex Armor Repair, Complex Armor Plates, Complex PG Upgrade, and Enhanced CPU upgrade for low slots. My High Slots are 2 Complex Light Weapon Damage Mods and 2 Complex Shield Extenders. Edit: Ok so looking back on it since I would only ever use my Proto gear in High-stake matches (Planetary Conquest) the question should be what's the focus module wise? While damage mods let me deal more damage it means little if the enemy tears into in less than 2 seconds. What sort of modules should I dedicate my slots to as for my fits on all three tiers? The path of the logi is difficult if you are equipped to fight as an assault. Generally the slots on logis should be filled for Defense and not offense. The meta has been creating a shorter time to kill again. A logis base stats are paper-thin. Start OVER. Fill Modules, then Equipment, Then Weapon and Grenade. Prioritize defense, maybe some speed. 1st. Highs fill up on some shields. 2nd Lows. Depending on how you play and if you often find cover, Consider a regulator. BUT Complex Armor Plate is ill advised, the penalty is too great and the fitting cost a bit too much when Enhanced Armor plate is just slightly below that. 1 armor and 1 rep is the minimum. Fill how however you want after that. 3rd. Consider 2 Pro Equipment and then fill in what you can after your first two choices. With the other changes that could mean adv or basic gear. Skills are most often sufficient enough for good fits that PG or CPU mods should be rarely used. My question is then what tier of weapon and grenade you are using. Here is where we sacrifice as we can. We must shoot and kill, but other classes are more gifted at that. Use a decent weapon, but that is should not be the focus of your build. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 781	Posted - 2015.03.24 23:02:00 - [98] - Quote Soulskulptor wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: [quote=Soulskulptor]So I've somewhat came back to Dust514. Saw that I downright sucked with the Rail Rifle and decided to switch to the only other weapon I'm skilled in, Assault Rifles. With that said I am curious about my module selection's adequacy as a MinLogi. Got a Complex Armor Repair, Complex Armor Plates, Complex PG Upgrade, and Enhanced CPU upgrade for low slots. My High Slots are 2 Complex Light Weapon Damage Mods and 2 Complex Shield Extenders. Edit: Ok so looking back on it since I would only ever use my Proto gear in High-stake matches (Planetary Conquest) the question should be what's the focus module wise? While damage mods let me deal more damage it means little if the enemy tears into in less than 2 seconds. What sort of modules should I dedicate my slots to as for my fits on all three tiers? The path of the logi is difficult if you are equipped to fight as an assault. Generally the slots on logis should be filled for Defense and not offense. The meta has been creating a shorter time to kill again. A logis base stats are paper-thin. Start OVER. Fill Modules, then Equipment, Then Weapon and Grenade. Prioritize defense, maybe some speed. 1st. Highs fill up on some shields. 2nd Lows. Depending on how you play and if you often find cover, Consider a regulator. BUT Complex Armor Plate is ill advised, the penalty is too great and the fitting cost a bit too much when Enhanced Armor plate is just slightly below that. 1 armor and 1 rep is the minimum. Fill how however you want after that. 3rd. Consider 2 Pro Equipment and then fill in what you can after your first two choices. With the other changes that could mean adv or basic gear. Skills are most often sufficient enough for good fits that PG or CPU mods should be rarely used. My question is then what tier of weapon and grenade you are using. Here is where we sacrifice as we can. We must shoot and kill, but other classes are more gifted at that. Use a decent weapon, but that is should not be the focus of your build. Here is a creative build. using Reactive Plates, it has decent armor, rep rate, and good shields for general play. This is the fit I got: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/648/12215 This fit I did after talking to some guys about my fit, said to drop the 2 dmg mods for a shield extender and a precision enhancer, also suggested the Breach Assault Rifle for it's high dmg per shot. With your advice I would swap down to basic breach assault and locus grenade and drop the pg and cpu upgrades for a pair of complex Shield Regulators. Complex armor plates downgraded to enhanced. Much cheaper fit, gonna have to see how it performs...when I get my shield regulator skill to lvl 5 http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/1943/12641 Hold, before you commit to the regulators or Basic Breach. What I am trying to say is to prioritize your fit. and build to the strengths of the suit. Precision mod may help, try it out. For your lows: Make three fits. Test the regulator x2. then test filling the 2 slots openings with 1 regulator/1 armor and then test 2 armor. You will find which one suits you better. You may even find that a fit with 1 red bottle, 2 armor, and 1 repair works well. NEXT: Proto repper, and 1 other proto item. Hive, Needle, scanner, or drop uplink. Then leave the other two at the ADV level. LAST: Pick a weapon you are comfortable with. AR and the CR are solid choices. But if you are not used to the burst fire it may not help to have a weapon that does more damage. On a proto fit I usually run with an ADV weapon if I'm running with a squad and a basic if running with a heavy - my choice, not a rule. Proto is expensive. You will need different builds for different situations. 'My Chubby Chaser: 4 Shields Complex to ADV - sacrifice as needed 3 Armor, 1 repper - I will go complex because I will be just as fast as my heavy 3 EQ - Pro rep Tool, Pro Needle, Pro-ADV Ammo. Weapon is Basic or ADV rifle. - I need to scare off enemies or finish them off if my heavy is downed. Basic Flux grenade. - tears apart the re's and eq that we will come accross, and those RE's down a heavy quick. Depending on my weapon I will have to sacrifice a pro shield or armor for the ADV version. My Regular Proto fit for running with a team: 3-4 shields, sometimes 1 random mod like the precision module 2 plate - 1-2 rep or 1 rep and 1 regulator or random EQ: Proto repper - two streamer, ADV Needle, Adv Hives, and Scanner or uplink Adv or basic weapon. Flux nades. Eagle Eye 4 precision 4 Range Pro rep, rep hive, basic to militia stuff. Weapon i whatever I can fit that is cheap Suit is paper thin but sees for miles :) and with a decent squad I'll still lose it 3 times - very spendy. There is room to play, just play to your strengths and have some fun. Like an eagle eye suit or a hacking suit or completely dampened suit. While there is no set 'right way' most of the suggestions are spot on. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 781	Posted - 2015.03.24 23:06:00 - [99] - Quote In addition - don't always run proto! or even All Proto equipment -that is just too expensive. On all my solo play fits I will run a basic BPO fit with one exception - adv or pro reptool for minmatar. A step above that is a BPO with only ADV modules and still a pro tool, dirty needle or 50% needle and militia hives. Logis get hit in the pocket book more than any other class - be sure to make some cheap but effective fits. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 785	Posted - 2015.03.25 22:21:00 - [100] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I usually run this fit: Logistics M-1 2x ADV Shield Extenders 2x Complex Reactive Plates BK42 Assault CR Flux ADV Needle ADV Scanner ADV Triage Rep Tool It's pretty ISK-efficent at about 40k and gets the work done. At the moment I'm torn between skilling into another Logi suit (Amarr looks pretty sexy to me) or going for a Heavy suit instead (leaning towards the Caldari). I already have a Min Assault and Commando and Scout is not really my thing. Any advices? Solid LOGI Build I played Caldari Heavy - it is a run and gun. But with the majority of weapons dealing shield damage it disappears rather quickly, and unless they are depleted the recharge is not that 1 sec delay that is so appealing. I feel it needed another High or low slot. I know it doesn't match the setups but I found it lacking in survival simply because I need just 1 more Shield item - regulator, recharger/energizer, or shield extender. The recharge was still a little slow, I think that if there was a logi tool that would repair shields in some way it would be more on an even playing field. and have a bit more staying power. But for a run and gun - if you could move about - it was fun. Amarr logi - be prepared to run advanced suits. The standard has only 2 EQ slots and never fully feels like a logi until you take that step to the ADV level. So, a bit more spendy. Always have a drop uplink - It is this logi's specialty. It has a bit more staying power and the side arm does allow for some AV support builds IFF you can get by on a side arm. Otherwise you cans still have a LZR and a side arm - so it is a light assault in some cases with all the stat setbacks of a logi. It does need and extra slot though. - different argument. In truth the Amarr and Minmatar are my favorites. Gallente is a solid suit, I just dislike the bonus. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 785	Posted - 2015.04.01 19:36:00 - [101] - Quote Appreciate the faith brother :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 800	Posted - 2015.04.28 20:54:00 - [102] - Quote Updated. Haven't gone over Skins though. When the Logi changes finally arrive we may need to move this thread. I already had to cut the Amarr Skill Suggestions :( The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 810	Posted - 2015.05.14 22:11:00 - [103] - Quote Currently there have been some postings by Ratatti that he is reviewing dropsuit slot flattening. Not exactly Tierecide, but very close to it. Discussions about maintaining value with BPOs vs Skin Costs, the Apex suits, how to further reduce the draws on PS3 resources continue. And it is all a little exiting. Take it all with a spoonful of salt. Rattati's dedicated CCP is small, already has a lot on their plate, and requires time to pull off these projects... but they are cool :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 815	Posted - 2015.05.16 02:24:00 - [104] - Quote If Any of you play with the Apex suits and have been entertained by the idea of Slot Progression Flattening I have made a small thead that seeks to question the fate of the Apex suit and what may be done in the future. Apex Suits and Slot Progression Solid post that I suggest you check out: Power Cores and Slot Progression Speed to HP ratios The Triage Ward The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant 0.P. 865	Posted - 2015.07.17 02:30:00 - [105] - Quote Good times though, finally a logi is always a logi and limited by slot progression. Now every logi starts out better with equipment than all other suits.... except for that slight scout glitch of the 3EQ, but that will be remedied soon, if it hasn't already. I'm loving this setup. Definitely harder to set up some of these suits, but I certainly feel more at home with all my EQ's available. Well done CCP, another solid stepping stone. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 891	Posted - 2016.01.08 23:10:00 - [106] - Quote Corrected some stats with the suits to conform to the updates No real new sections to create yet. Reviewing to see if some other mechanics have been missed. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 896	Posted - 2016.01.21 20:40:00 - [107] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: First post, third paragraph under The Role of Support: "There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys." - Chankk Saotome Would it be possible to put that in a quote box? For example: Chankk Saotome wrote: "There's no nice way to say it but if you're not already in the mindset of doing what's best for your team over your own pride and benefit (KDR) then you needn't be considering most of the information here for your own style. No rips or criticisms, you're just not 'LogiBro' material, and that's fine. We need all kinds on the field, even if it's that guy who runs only hives, remotes and proxys." Looking over your guide since I finally have time and figured I'd throw some suggestions your way. Also saw you changed the slot layouts on all the suits. Nice job! EDIT: Another suggestion, just some punctuation/word ideas: Quote: Tactics Change First Understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character you are not to be playing alone. While you should be able to hold your own your role is not as a lone wolf slayer. You are a jack of all trades and the master of 1 or 2. While you will learn make your play style work for you I have found that these insights help. Change to: Quote: Tactics Change First, understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character, you are not to be playing alone. While you should be able to hold your own, your role is not as a lone wolf slayer. You are a jack of all trades and the master of support. While you will learn to make your play style work for you, I have found that these insights help. (<-- What insights?) I tried to bold and underline the small punctuation, but I don't think it shows up well. Let me know if you can't see it. Now that I look further, you talk about "Tactics Change" with play style changes, but then follow up with "Changes in Play". Is there any way to combine them? When reading it, it feels redundant. Also if you don't mind, do you have a Skype or an email I could contact you with? I'd like to brag about having connections with the Creator of the Logi Code. Thank you :) I'll take a look and see what I can do. I believe the biggest reason for not using the quote system - which I would prefer - is because of the character limits. All the additional characters that affect the font enhancements eat up about 200 - 300 characters per post. To make adjustments I must either cut a similar amount or add another post and readjust the formatting and length. Thank you for the suggestions and your continued support, (bowing) you pay me great compliment. I will take a look this afternoon. mel me at mosestrom @ gmail.com (no spaces) and can look up my skype stuff if you would like :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
RedBleach LeSanglant Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 896	Posted - 2016.01.21 20:42:00 - [108] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Amarr Logistics: Here's a link to the bug report I made detailing the glitch with the bonus. I also tested with Nanohives for the Caldari suit and it's also affected as well. I had forgotten about this, I'll tack it in there :) The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower

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