DUST Search - The Logi Code. Guide to Logi Success. Updated for Uprising

RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:

STAGE 3: Basic Skills

STAGE 3a: Your First 5 Million
See The posts in this thread by Chankk Saotome for the full post. A step by step process for building your Logi skill path for every 500,000 skill points.

CS GÇ£did skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate.GÇ¥ - CS

This is a very general flow of the whole Logi progression and can be tweaked according to your raceGÇÖs bonuses (armor or shields), but it is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment early.
RB Note: Drop Uplinks are favored by many LogibroGÇÖs but still an optional skill.
RB Note: Only choose Shield Recharge IF you are Not Amarr. Regulators are great, but test Rechargers yourself first before committing.

Initial 500k:
Dropsuit Command I
Race X Medium Suit III
Race X Logistics I
Dropsuit Upgrades II
Armor Upgrades I
Shield Upgrades I
Dropsuit Core Upgrades II
Uplink Deployment I
Nanocircuitry I
Repair Tool Ops I

Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (AR is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder.


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Thrydwulf Khodan Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.08.14 01:49:00 - [1] - Quote First post, so be patient with me ... I'm still a newberry and trying to learn the ropes my first week in Dust... I'm playing casually right now and having a blast :-) A couple of questions for those with more experience: 1. With 'Active Scanning' now giving a real benefit and useful function per comments from Chankk Saotome, does that make a substantial change in terms of the recommended 'Initial 500K SP' for progression? (And the eventual move towards 5mil?) If my math is right, it appears as though the Active Scanning skill can be picked up with the first 500k SP. 1a. For the 'equipment loadout' recommendations for the 3 slot equipment starter suits (Logi M-1 and G-1), where does the Active Scanning gear fit into the loadouts? i.e. What equipment is the priority to 'drop' from the loadout? (i.e. is it Injector/Hive/Repper v.s. Injector/Uplink/Repper v.s. Injector/Scanner/Repper? Or do the Injector or Repper get dropped instead of the Uplink/Hive when adding the Scanner?) 2. Building a starter Min logi seems to be a lesson in CPU/PG pain with substantially less flexibility than I've seen so far with Gallente ... is that typical, or merely that the CPU/PG headroom is so much more with the Gallente dropsuit path due to the bonuses? 3. While the total SP is 500K for that first group, how do you determine the ISK cost to get there? That doesn't seem to be in any of the googledocs based build tools (or am I just missing that part?) Side notes for the 'Choose your weapon section': For the 'weapon' experience section choosing a Gallente character will give you the Militia Gallente Medium dropsuit and a selection of the basic weapons (AR/Swarm/SMG/Sniper etc.) and a Medic loadout with an Injector and AR as BPC's that can be duplicated and modified to decrease ISK requirements for your test. BTW: Thanks for the helpful posts, running around supporting folks has been a complete blast so far ... (though it is easy to muck up the SP expenditures the first time around...) just need to find folks with mics to help out RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: STAGE 3: Basic Skills STAGE 3a: Your First 5 Million See The posts in this thread by Chankk Saotome for the full post. A step by step process for building your Logi skill path for every 500,000 skill points. CS GÇ£did skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate.GÇ¥ - CS This is a very general flow of the whole Logi progression and can be tweaked according to your raceGÇÖs bonuses (armor or shields), but it is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment early. RB Note: Drop Uplinks are favored by many LogibroGÇÖs but still an optional skill. RB Note: Only choose Shield Recharge IF you are Not Amarr. Regulators are great, but test Rechargers yourself first before committing. Initial 500k: Dropsuit Command I Race X Medium Suit III Race X Logistics I Dropsuit Upgrades II Armor Upgrades I Shield Upgrades I Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Uplink Deployment I Nanocircuitry I Repair Tool Ops I Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (AR is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:20:00 - [2] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: For all the true Caldari logibros out there: How do you fit full racks of proto equipment? Starting out I ran into a similar issue that you have. Not enough space. (Though I wasn't in a Caldari Suit. I was trying to wrap my head around why I didn't have enough CPU/PG space in a Minmatar [7 slots] suit v.s. the Gallente suit [5 slots].) I am going to recommend the Dropsuit Fitting Tool so you can see about where you need to go. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=67188 Unfortunately Caldari has the lowest amount of CPU available at a given gear level (basic/advanced/proto), and has one less L slot at basic and advanced. That 'gap' for L slots doesn't get fixed until proto level (jumping from 2L to 4L). As an example, you can see in the numbers below the base suit and and With Max skills (level 5 in everything) and with Max Skill w/ Complex CPU/PG mods there is an interesting difference. SuitBaseMax Skillw/Mod C-I175/39230/51*Only 1 L slot C/1245/55322/72434/86 ck.0350/78459/102620/116 M-1 G-1195/39256/51346/65 G/1 M/1273/55358/72484/86 gk.0 mk.0390/78512/102691/116 A-1195/36256/47346/61 A/1273/50358/66484/80 ak.0390/72512/94691/108 NOTE: The Gallente suits subtract 25% from the CPU/PG requirements for equipment at max level. Hope that helps you! (The fitting guide has been really helpful for me.)
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:43:00 - [3] - Quote Two part question: 1. From folks who have more experience, are the Dren Logistics M-1 and the Sever Logistics M-1 suits, being the only BPO available on the logistics side, worth picking up if you didn't go Minmatar Logi? (Does the Dren M-1 suit have skill requirements like the Sever M-1 does?) 2. With the differences in play style between Logi suits as you move from Basic to Proto is there a disadvantage (other than sheer time and SP) to pick up a secondary Logi suit chain? (~324K SP for basic and then 821K SP for Advanced) Given that you can use Neo variants to try out the next higher version once you reach Skill levels 1 and 3?
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University Ivy League 18	Posted - 2013.09.04 20:29:00 - [4] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: CAPS LOCK BECAUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! I WITHDRAW ALL PREVIOUS NEGATIVE STATEMENTS ABOUT ACTIVE SCANNERS! Seriously, those things are BEAST. If you've got 4 slots or teammates handling hives and uplinks on a 3-slot suit, you NEED one of these things. That's all there is to it. Period. SENTANCE! I ran about 4 hours of matches with a friend and his pickup squad and about half way in I was sold. I skilled in to just the basic scanner and with nanite injectors a mess decided to drop it into my injector slot. Can we look at an update to the Logi Code for 1.4. Active Scanners need to be front and center in the initial 500k. However they seem to lock you into the scanner for the entire duration. (contrary to the prior setup) Please validate the functionality, as I believe that 'changing weapons' after trigger doesn't work as in 1.3. LOS changes and 'shared vision' updates have made this tool nearly indispensable even in a 3 slot loadout. The current changes to the damage views on target over using the repper have made it much more challenging a tool to use, and that needs to be addressed in some way for the document.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 19:54:00 - [5] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows, maximize your suitGÇÖs strengths, it cost too much to try and correct the weaknesses: High Slots: Shield Extender + Shield Recharger, Shield Extender, Shield Energizer or Damage Modifier Low Slots: Armor Repper + Armor Plate or Shield Regulator (as appropriate), Cardiac Regulator, Profile Dampener, or CPU/PGU mods These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking. Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.) What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced? Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad? Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard? What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields? Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit. As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 20:12:00 - [6] - Quote It appears as though all Logi suits get a baseline decrease in CPU/PG cost (mirroring the original Gallente suit bonus) and then an 'Bonus' for their Racial group. Is that what you read into the suits? Urf ... and the removal of the equivalent of the Complex repair-mod.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 35	Posted - 2014.01.07 21:27:00 - [7] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use. 6.04 mil SP Race: Primary Minmatar Logi Suit III Secondary: Gallente Logi II Rally Build: Standard Min Logi Suit 2x Militia Profile Dampeners Militia Cardiac Regulator 2 x Militia Shield Extenders SMG Locus or Flux (sometimes A/V but not normally) R-9 Uplink / Militia Stick / BDR-2 Repper Uplink will get swapped out for the following as needed: A-86 Scanner K-2 Hive Based on how I was playing I used the 5 Mil plan as a framework I'm using BPO SMG (Syndicate) and BPO Dren gear for weapons so I don't have a 'weapon choice' made. Added Remote Explosives III Added Grenades III Added Active Scanning IV Drop Uplinks IV Nanocircuitry IV Repair Tool IV Electronics IV Engineering IV Armor Plating IV and Shield Ext IV Shield Recharge II (I wasn't using recharge modules) Shield Regulation II (I wasn't using regulation modules) Armor Repair II (I wasn't using repair modules except in scout fits) I've been tending towards Stealth/Speed tanking and the SMG reminds me that I need to stick close to my team.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 50	Posted - 2014.02.19 20:30:00 - [8] - Quote lee corwood wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: hoo! (pt 2 of 2) EDIT: Now, with something useful: Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. CCP Logibro wrote: Just to add, the Medium Frames are all getting some base stat adjustments, but no changes to slots (though that's not ruled out for post 1.8) All of these are copied from the following post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370 Equipment info is pulled from this post: http://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=137525 A couple items of note for 1.8 (Based on current posts) Injectors don't change. ISK costs appear to remain constant. Equipment CPU/PG appears to be the same across the board. CPU/PG changes are unknown for medium class suits. (Side thought: Dropping the overall CPU/PG of the Logi suits might make them less valuable for Logi-Assault types.) Drop-Uplinks: Baseline Drop-Uplink times are increasing by ~33% and HP is dropping by ~4x Proto-Amarr Logi get 10 bonus spawns per uplink, and times match original uplinks. No Militia-Fit Drop-Uplink is listed. I didn't see any mention or reference of it in the postings. The prototype Drop uplinks have mostly changed names and meta levels. "Viziam" replaces "Imperial" Rep-Tools: Baseline amount repaired looks to be the same as current. Baseline Rep-tool distances are decreasing by ~33% Proto-MinLogi get all the distance back, and a bonus on repping with all but the core focused repair tool. The Core Focused Repair Tool repair rate drops to 125 from 175 on dropsuits. ~156 for Proto-minlogi Rep Tools now have an 'Installation Repair Rate' listed (~2x the vehicle for most tools) The Republic Boundless Repair Tool isn't listed. Nanohives: Repair/Resupply rates appear identical. All standard hives appear to have the same number of nanites as they did originally. All Advanced and proto hives have ~33% fewer nanites. Proto-CalLogi get original amounts of Nanites for Standard/Proto and a bonus for Standard. Scanners Increase in time between scans. (Could be up to 100% longer, I don't have good numbers) Proto-Gal Logi Scan down-time ranges between -5 and 18 seconds depending on scanner (Everyone else is 0-22) "Scanner functionality has been improved to do GÇ£snapshotGÇ¥ scans in order to stop 360 degree spins." - This may be a real kick in the teeth for scanner users depending on implementation. Skilling into multiple suit types to get the best 'bang for your buck' may not be far off. (e.g. Have an Amarr drop uplink suit and a Minmatar rep suit, if you need to scan pull out your Gallente scan suit.) Caldari sortof seem to get the short end of the deal. Removal of the 'repair module' equivalent means that at proto level all logis will be down the equivalent of 1 Complex repair module worth of low slots. (Less armor etc.)
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 52	Posted - 2014.02.20 21:24:00 - [9] - Quote lee corwood wrote: I'm surprised at some of the changes but withhold my scathing rage as I have 'heard' but don't know for certain yet that damage of certain weapons would be nerfed across the board.... Decreasing weapon damage won't really help against the Proto-Gal Logi running 5 Complex Armor modules with full fitting bonuses and armor skill bonuses. He had 960+ armor. It was pretty insane. Made me want to go for my RE fit.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 61	Posted - 2014.02.23 22:59:00 - [10] - Quote lee corwood wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think he's talking about dropping a plate in favor of a repair module. As for the rest, that's what so maddening about this whole thing. Devs keep dropping into topics and leaving one little nugget of information but little else! We really just don't know what's going to happen in the big picture. I'm beginning to think that they really are doing it on purpose to mess with us... Ah, Thank you for the insight. My mind hadn't quite made it there. And you are completely right - Nothing is confirmed until it is out - I guess I'm feeling pretty pessimistic, and the attitude on the forums is generally one of ennui, and even the devs are stressed... I just see it going in this big circle of negative reinforcement. I should do my part to change that. Thanks for keeping a neutral perspective John. I should emulate the same behavior. Yes, I was talking about having to lose a plate for a repair module. Sorry for the vagueness. So with current 1.8 all of the logi will loose one low slot for equipment to replace the Complex Repair Module equivalent that suits have when you're trained to proto level. (Unless you want to run without a repair module.) We get our equipment nerfed and have to spec into the suit to get the equipment back to current baseline, and then you get a side benefit. It still feels like I'll need to spec into at least Amarr/gal/min suits to stay where I am right now on the equipment front. Yeah, that's not going to be cheap. And if you want to be repping you'll be most efficient as minmatar. I can see it now: "Heavy squad rf1 logi, must be running Minmatar Proto suits" facepalm

Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 67	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:55:00 - [11] - Quote Well ... the two suits that look to be 'required' post 1.8 appear to be Minmatar Logi and Amarr Logi. Minmatar due to the rep bonuses. Amarr for Uplink bonuses. If you do lots of scanning Gallente will be interesting, but we will have to see what the changes to Scanning mean. (i.e. the new 'Snapshot' functionality) Caldari isn't make or break for me. The needle will remain the same, we're just looking at fewer nanites for the resupply. And if you're pure logibro, Minmatar will be the gold standard for heavy support.
Thrydwulf Khodan DUST University 67	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:37:00 - [12] - Quote CaveCav wrote: I don't know about you guys but I can't see myself using the Gallente logistics in 1.8...I'll be keeping my Minmatar for sure and I'll be picking up either the Amarr or the Caldari logistics as a second suit, but the Gallente... The ability to 'scan the unscanable' will make Gallente Logi an interesting player on the field. But we will have to see how scanners will change with the new 'Snapshot' functionality which will supposedly 'stop' the 360 degree ballerina-logibro. The gallente suit is solid. 5 low slots at the cost of movement at proto level (though IMO it doesn't really hit primetime until then) and scanner bonuses. Amarr suit drop uplink is potentially huge with the spawn speed slowdown Substantial deployment time drop (50%) and additional spawns (up to 10 more per uplink) Minmatar is crazy good for repping 25% bonus to repping amount is quite powerful and gives the same repair distances as current tools. Caldari is ... okay I suppose. I don't use as many hives as some due to running around with a rep tool ... and Injectors don't change. I may spec into Scout suits for the hacking bonus and 2 equipment slots. Sortof a 'Logi-Lite' to do stealth drop uplinks and objective hacking with maybe a rep tool or injector on the side.
Thrydwulf Khodan 75	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:48:00 - [13] - Quote Possible interesting behavior for uplinks in Amarr suits. I'm not seeing the bonus when I die and have to spawn back in.
Thrydwulf Khodan 75	Posted - 2014.03.27 10:34:00 - [14] - Quote I am seeing a wider variety of weapons on the field. And assault mass drivers are in that list. (Ouch!)
Thrydwulf Khodan 83	Posted - 2014.04.18 14:04:00 - [15] - Quote Note: While I'm sure someone else didn't miss this "nerf" I did until looking at the Scanning Table for 1.8 provided in the URL here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=warning&l=http%3a%2f%2fdocs.google.com%2fspreadsheet%2fccc%3fkey%3d0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc%26amp%3bamp%3busp%3dsharing%23gid%3d0&domain=google.com There is no difference between the Scan Profile for ALL medium suits. Prior to 1.8 Logi suits ran at 45. Post 1.8 they now run at a base of 50 for their profile. Profile Dampening looks like it will be highly useful with the new changes.
Thrydwulf Khodan 98	Posted - 2014.06.06 21:42:00 - [16] - Quote Auorra wrote: What about the Minmatar logistic suits? I got one for the healing boost. I also upgraded to an advanced nanite injector. But now restocking is very expensive. There's a lot of talk about Caldarri suits. But how about the Minmatar? What about the Minmatar logi suits? They're fairly standard 'bread & butter' for a repair based logi with a solid number of fitting slots all-round. If you feel that type of play is working for you then go for it. (I run Amarr suits for the second weapon, how uplink bonuses function, and for RP reasons.) Restocking is always going to be 'expensive' for logibro, the key is to play within your budget. If that means that you're running a standard fit suit with maxed out fitting skills and a Proto repper and advanced injector. That's alright. For a 'baseline' My normal use suits run between 27K and 45K. If you have a specific question, just let us know!