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Veka Kari
NECROM0NGERS
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Posted - 2013.11.18 16:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
Edit: And the logi nerf topics are starting up again. Someone remind me why I throw my ISK and KDR down the toilet to support teammates that thank me with nerf complaints?
Strongly agree on those points. This whole "nerf the logi" argument is, IMO, due to the fact that we have a WHOLE lot more options to play with. Logistics suits are truly the highlight of module based game play and offer a wide variety of customization's to many situations. Before I sacked all my Logi fits to rebuild them, I had nearly 15 different fits at different levels at different costs, and each time I found myself doing better, war point wise, than the best of my squad.
Even though I strongly agree that other suits should get buffs, the logi is in need of a redesign. Before you stone me to death for saying what could be considered sacrilegious hear out this point.
Lo-+gis-+tics (n) : the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies.
This means pretty simply, we are coordinators, planners and true support. We are not combatants, we are command, and we are support. The best way to fit that definition is to not think combat wise, and more strategically and tactically. A few suggestions to this would be, and may even create a new class if you think about it:
- Large radar (50m) with team sharing passive scan (no wp bonus for this), with a nerf to weapon damage by at most 25%, at least to 10%
- Repair tools buffed by 10% (per logi level)
- Shields/Armor (race dependent) buffed by 5% per logi level
- Active scanning (which works as a bonus to the logis already increased team sharing radar), buffed by 10m/level
Other than this give a single racial and things can look super differently for the logistics class. If you think that I am spouting nonsense feel free to say, but to my last breath I will defend this option, because I believe that it is in the true spirit of logistics. Everything else, such as the current LogiBro mentality, is really the Medic Mentality.
By the way, RedBleach LeSanglant, when I came across your guide I was already 2m SP in, but since then I have followed your guide closely, and now I am a pretty successful 9m SP Proto Logi that can achieve at minimum 1500 WP per match. If there were a way I could help contribute, I would hope this post shows it. |
Veka Kari
NECROM0NGERS
Covert Intervention
21
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Posted - 2013.12.28 20:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:
Dude, thank you. And well done on your progression. Which suit did you choose?
...
Well done sir, and keep the ideas coming.
Keep to the code, see you on the battlefield.
I will get to replying to your entire post another time, because this is all I have time for right now. I chose the Gallente Logi (A suit I feel is true support).
Thank you for your praise, and I will definitely keep up the progress, and if you'd like keep you informed of my findings. Until next time, happy fighting.
MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
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Veka Kari
NECROM0NGERS
Covert Intervention
21
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Posted - 2013.12.29 08:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alright, theory crafting time!
As stated before I run a gallente logi, primarily because I thought (when first starting the game) that the racial bonus only counted if you were of that race [I have since then understood my mistake and still like the gallogi]. All these opinions come from the gallogi point of view so it may be off from the minlogi, callogi and the amlogi perspective (I have no experience with these which is why I state this.)
Gallogi's have more high slots which give them the ability to move faster, further, be well armored, have highly resistant shields, or hack faster (odd though seems like a minlogi concept). This means that it is perfect for following around a heavy with a repair tool, especially since it can have an EHP of 1k. This also means that its well suited for scanning (also to the benefit of a heavy and the rest of your squad) and nanohives or an injector.
Gallogis are really built for true support, longevity and functionality. Now that I read over my opinions from earlier, I may have been hasty in my suggestions on how to redesign the logistics class. I have also had some time to play with other suits and understand the strengths and weaknesses that plague them. This has lead me to think about a few design ideas that will not ultimately change the logi completely but put it more in line with what support should mean.
1) Standardized equipment slot amounts. This means 3 at basic/adv, and 4 or 5 at proto.
-- I say this because we need our toys it allows us to do what we do. Nanohives, injectors, rep tools, drop uplinks, and scanners are really staples that need to be available to logis.
In my direct experience I have found that its really hard to balance what you need, and what you would like on your suits for the situation your in. Quite frequently I have found a favorite from them all and failing in the other forms of support. I.E. Scanner, Drop Uplinks, and a Rep tool (SDR). More equipment slots will allow the logi to do what it does best, support the team, and the squad.
2) Less High and Low slots. 2 Lows and 3 Highs max. (racial modifications as needed)
-- This is needed especially if we were to receive more equipment slots. You cant have everything and this sacrifice should be more than welcome by any logi especially if they had more tools at their disposal. No one needs a 1k EHP logi running around with an A/C/L/R/Sc Rifle, it just opens up too easily for abuse of the availability, and versatility of the class.
3) Shield/Armor buff (at most 50 more shields and 100 more armor)
-- As highlighted above, with the reduced slot layout this is pretty much needed, and a static addition should make up for the loss of 1/2 slots on both sides. Truly this would make us survivable and capable of some semi-sustained combat until backup arrives or the squad notices the yelling over the comms from the logi.
4) As LeSanglant suggested lower PG/CPU requirements for all races.
-- Obvious, surprised they didnt just do this to start with. Being the Gallogi that I am its just second nature to be able to fit All Proto equips and still have room for some modules. I really feel sorry for the other races to have to deal with the inability to do so either.
5) Equipment buff (this one takes some explanation, I will try my best.)
-- If a logi equips something, its abilities are amplified by a specific percentage depending on what it is.
-- Drop uplinks capable of spawning in more infantry or spawning faster.
-- Nanohives supplying more ammo/armor or supplying it faster/more effectively
-- Injectors giving more armor/shields
-- Rep-tools healing more or kick starting the shield regeneration by a fixed percentage.
-- and maybe (to be a little selfish) scanners capable of scanning harder to scan infantry.
I really feel I may have nailed it this time, and this is properly balanced and in line with the ideals us support logis keep to. Please feel free to state your opinions on this matter.
MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
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Veka Kari
The Phoenix Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.01.01 23:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, we just need to work together RedBleach in order to solve the big question of class balance. I offer to you a regular meeting session with me and anyone else who is willing to 'objectively' look at the suits, and understand that things will need to change. Honestly I think that we are up to the task.
As for the other edits, I think that after we have come together we will have more time (and room) to build out these 'changes'. If you would like we could host a room on DUST, Voice chat it up, and open up a google doc. Then once we are done and satisfied with the changes send it to CCP for their mulling over.
Wouldn't you like to be the people who helped balance DUST?
MUST READ (All Suits): The Logi Code. You depend on it.
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