I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them.
Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me.

Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills.

Nanite Injectors
I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor.
I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill.

I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit).

NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP.

ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP.
On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy.

SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG.
For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.

Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level

Repair Tools
Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ).

Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool.
This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active.

PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot)

ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar)

Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you)

Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level

Drop Uplinks
Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants.

HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks.

COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player.

Since Drop Uplinks will become a vital piece of equipment I thought about 2 possible skills:
1) -5% to Drop Uplink Scan Profile per level this would make them harder to detect for the enemy team
2) +5% to Drop Uplink Scan Radius and Scan Precision per level this would give a player an idea about the surroundings of his spawn point of choice, nobody likes to: die, wait 15 seconds, spawn, die, wait another 15 seconds

Active Scanners
I like the changes they are making, I'm guilty of 360-scan-spamming and it was ridiculous.

Active Scanner Skills:
1) 5% cooldown time reduction on active scanners per level (with this the Creodron Proximity would be "spammable")
2) 20% to active scanner scan angle per level (so that most scanners will have a 120-¦ scan angle)

...I'm still thinking about Nanohives and Remote Explosives

The thing about the injectors and repair tools is that they use nanites (basically microscopic machines: nanomachines) to funtcion. Unlike armor, the nanites wouldn't be able to interact with shields since it is more or less energy. Now what you're thinking of isn't a Repair tool but rather a "Charge" tool.

Now for the personal repair you are correct in that people would abuse it. I played MAG and most everyone carried the Med Tool simply to heal themselves while ignoring the comrades who are calling out for first aid.

Separate skills for equipment might be difficult since a few of the equipment is placed instead of carried.

Well being machines the nanites should have some source of energy to be able to operate.
Since, I guess, they integrate themeselves with the damaged armor to repair it to some degree wouldn't it make sense if after the operation they could discharge their residual energy in the shield generator of the suit?

That's why I lean towards the semi-active idea, if you repair allies (and only while you are repairing) you get the bonus, so you can't climb on a roof and start picking off people and if you get shot stand back a couple of seconds and self-repair.
And with the repair tool is hard since rate and range are influenced by the Minnlogi, I also thought about a sort of AoE heal (if I remember correctly Planetside 2 does something similar) but we have Triage Hives for that.

Yeah, placed items are what I find difficult to come up with ideas that could work, (in particular with Nanohives all the ideas I get are broken by the "I'm-gonna-stack-5-Nanohives-at-my-feet" tactic) I have to say I like the idea I got for the Uplinks though, I think it is possible to make a lot with the profile sistem: with these skills uplinks could be used as Proximity Sensors or could become a pain for the enemy team if hidden correctly.

This is what I was talking about, I need feedback both from a lore perspective and a game balance perspective.

I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them.
Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me.

Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills.

Nanite Injectors
I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor.
I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill.

I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit).

NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP.

ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP.
On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy.

SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG.
For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.

Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level

Repair Tools
Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ).

Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool.
This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active.

PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot)

ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar)

Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you)

Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level

Drop Uplinks
Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants.

HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks.

COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player.

I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them.
Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me.

Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills.

Nanite Injectors
I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor.
I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill.

I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit).

NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP.

ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP.
On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy.

SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG.
For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.

Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level

Repair Tools
Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ).

Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool.
This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active.

PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot)

ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar)

Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you)

Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level

Drop Uplinks
Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants.

HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks.

COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player.

Since Drop Uplinks will become a vital piece of equipment I thought about 2 possible skills:
1) -5% to Drop Uplink Scan Profile per level this would make them harder to detect for the enemy team
2) +5% to Drop Uplink Scan Radius and Scan Precision per level this would give a player an idea about the surroundings of his spawn point of choice, nobody likes to: die, wait 15 seconds, spawn, die, wait another 15 seconds

Active Scanners
I like the changes they are making, I'm guilty of 360-scan-spamming and it was ridiculous.

Active Scanner Skills:
1) 5% cooldown time reduction on active scanners per level (with this the Creodron Proximity would be "spammable")
2) 20% to active scanner scan angle per level (so that most scanners will have a 120-¦ scan angle)

...I'm still thinking about Nanohives and Remote Explosives

Red, where did you get this piece of info: "new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits". This is the second time I heard this now but haven't seen anything of.

That would definitely screw up ammo supply, I rather have a active system like the rep tool than the passive drop equipment (which turns into spam) anyway.

Gotta be honest, I think a lot of the suggestions you are making sound a bit OP, especially the self-reps and needles. Self reps are not hard to figure out why, you've already mentioned it. A low rate of self rep (as a % of the reps you give) is probably fine.

Injectors you've added entirely too much functionality to without drawbacks to compensate. Instead of variants these are just supercharged versions of what we already have.

- Vehicles have recently taught us a hard lesson in how damage resistance can be OP. A proto or LP needle giving 10s of 50% resistance to damage on an Amarr or gallente sentinel which will already have it's own inherent damage resistance could lead to some interesting tactics like a logi TKing his own heavy and then making him into his own personal reanimated zombie killdozer with a LP armor injector and core focused rep tool. I know, that sounds seriously awesome but it's also most likely OP.

- a more balanced injector would be a shield variant which supercharges shield recharge at a cost of a significant amount of armor, maybe 10-20%, along the lines of what you suggest, but without any instant shield replenishment.

As for uplinks, I really like where you are going with the covert ops one. Less excited about the hardened one, I don't know that I care enough that uplinks will have less SP in 1.8 to bother with those.

Also, while I like the idea of the scan profile getting lower, I think that's better as a variant than a skill bonus, again, you're adding additional benefits to an existing piece of equipment without a drawback.

For my money I'd like to see the skill bonuses either be applied to basic properties so that, say, on a Minnie logi suit if you have uplinks to 5 then your uplinks become nearly as good as they are now without having to use an Amarr suit, same with rep tools on an Amarr suit and not Minnie, etc, etc.

That might be viewed unfavorably by CCP, though, perhaps it could be an anti-spam measure, something I proposed a while ago, where the number of equipments you could have out at once was determined by the skill level.

Not sure what you mean by "Proximity Sensors". Do Uplinks show when an enemy is near it? Though I think they should rename the Current Proxy mines to AV mines and add REAL Proxy mines. Place them and smile when it explodes due to an enemy stepping near it.

Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not

Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not

Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot

You make some really good points.

Do you think that Armor Injectors should have a lower bonus while restoring less armor? Something like: 30% armor on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% for PRO and 60% for LP with 10% resist on STD, 20% on ADV and 30% on PRO and LP or is this still too much? Or should they be entirely removed?
As for Shield Injectors I added the instant-boost because of the depleted timer, we could get rid of it if, for the buff duration, the shield delay was always 0. For armor percentages were you suggesting 10-20% less of what I suggested or 10-20% armor restored upon revive?

I knew the self-reps would have been difficult to balance but I think that a fixed value (let's say 10-15 hp/sec) is more fair than a % based one, I would get more self-reps while behind a heavy with the Core Focused making us even harder to kill.

I think I should delete the Active and Passive explanation for the self reps, I was trying to point out why those would be unbalanced but I think people don't understand.

Speaking of which, the shield one should probably be just a level 4 adv variant, and not a full fledged alternative at all tiers. a shield instant boost would be fine if there was no damage resistance or vice versa, it's both together that's potentially OP.

Oh, and I like the idea of self reps but I agree that you went into too many different scenarios and it was hard to follow.

The best way to limit the potential forms use IMO is to make it a feedback type of thing where you get back a small % of the actual healing you give, meaning that simply having the tool locked onto someone won't give you any reps, you have to be actively repairing them (not just have them on a leash).

I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.)

Wait , caring about your kdr doing make you a fake logi , it makes you c conscious player , i dont get how you guys think logis should be a free kill waiting to happen and i will disagree 100% i care about my kdr and i freak out something times when i go negative but most of the time i have like 9 kills and most of my war points come from uplinks , nanohives , my repair tool and so fourth so nobody listen to this guy , its what you do with your logi suit that says if your a true logi or not

I guess it's fine to care (a little) but it shouldn't dictate what you do in battle. My KDR is a touch under 1; I mean, it would be nice if it were higher, it's not as though I don't care at all. But, I'm not going to play over cautiously or not dash across the area to try and save someone because I'm worried that I'm going to go negative... Plus I like to play kinda recklessly anyway, fun is definitely more important than KDR! (Fortunately my bank account is big enough to support a certain level of stupidity.)

dude majority of the time my freinds have 45 kills to 3 deaths i have like 4 to 9 kill with like 3k wp . and about 4 deaths beuase noone is repairing me sadly but i see what you saying my point is their is no true logi bro in this game we all have our own perspectives and that just defines who we are and it makes the game alot more fun

Same. My kdr is not impressive and I don't care. I die a fair bit and its to help the team, but I use best judgment. I understand there are certain games and situations where my number of deaths are actually starting to affect the clone count negatively and start altering my game play. Otherwise, if its absolutely hopeless, I bring out the cheap silly suits and just try stuff. This game should be about fun and not stats. I'm having the time of my life and rolling in isk. I wouldn't trade that experience for a better kdr.

Personally I try to pull back on the rep line like it's a leash. Never seems to work for some reason...

While we are still awaiting news on the possible logi bonuses from what I've been reading on the forums it seems like they will be the bonuses of the future, though I thought I saw a CCP or CPM post saying that the medium dropsuit bonuses will not be touched for 1.8. Regardless, as the dev blogs come out and more is known I will be adjusting the guide to match the new bonuses and include the reasons behind such choices.

Secondly there has been a post from a CCP dev stating that all respec conversations happen under a specific thread. I urge you all to visit and post your thoughts on the subject. I personally vote for a complete refund of dropsuits, core, and weaponry as many of the choices we have made were based upon the current roles and suits we use. With so many new additions and bonus changes I support a refund as the only viable alternative.

See the thread here: Official Respec/Refund Thread

hoo! (pt 2 of 2)

EDIT: Now, with something useful:

Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment]
- Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.

Just to add, the Medium Frames are all getting some base stat adjustments, but no changes to slots (though that's not ruled out for post 1.8)