On my heavy I have to be carful if I am working with a Gallente Logi-Bro. Since I run Kinetic Catalysers I have a bad habit of outrunning my logi. It is mostly just bad habits on my part due to only working with a Logi about 3 times in the first month I played Heavy. But a Minmitar Logi would probably have an easier time keeping up with me.

Thanks for making this helpful guide.
Although I found it after deciding on what suit I wanted.
I chose to go with Amarr and working my way to Advanced (tested the LP version).

The standard version is so versatile, despite having only 2 equip slots.
I have a couple of variations with the this suit on my main character(not this one).

- Medic, Support (Repair+Ammo), Recon(Up+Scan), AV, Demolitions, etc
- I've had some success with Assault variants with the Medic and Recon roles.

My initial SP was put into sniping, so I've been testing an Assault Sniper fit with the standard suit.
I mainly use it if there's another logi in the squad, so I can kill those Rail Riflers and Heavies before they get in range.

Yeah I like to carry a 36db active scanner with the assault sniper fit since the suit is kind of slow.
Currently debating whether to go Level 3 this week on my Amarr logi or my Minmatar Scout.
I've been doing better with the tactical SR versions recently, since more zoom = more headshots.
I made a cheap minja MLT fit with the std tactical SR, specifically for FW matches.

Well done, well done. Your rally approach seems most befitting.

Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential.

Thank you all for your additions.

I've read this post. It's a great read. I wish I had seen it much earlier in my logi days. There were still some nice fleshy bits I got from it, but 6 months ago, I was that tard putting droplinks facing the wall and right on top of the objective. If I had seen this post, I'd be in a much better spot today.

I'm posting this here because I saw there are people who think about overall game balance and I would love some feedback from them.
Disclaimer: english isn't my native language and there probably will be spelling errors so please bear with me.

Since equipment and bonuses are about to change I would like to start a discussion about how we (as the Logi community) would like to see change our tools and skills.

Nanite Injectors
I always found the choises offered to be too few, you can have your STD, ADV, PRO or LP variant each restoring a different amount of armor.
I would like to have more options and I would like that skilling into a particular piece of equipment would grant me better performances even on the low end ones, just like it's done with weapons; this would mean that Injectors would now have their own skill.

I would like to see three different variants of Needles, let's call them "Normal", "Armor" and "Shield" (I'm not one of the Lore Guys, to them the task to find names that fit).

NORMAL these would be like the actual Injectors, 30% armor restored for STD, 50% for ADV, 80% for PRO and 100% for LP; the only difference would be a 5s boost to armor regen: +2 hp/sec for STD, +3 hp/sec for ADV, +5 hp/sec for PRO and +7 hp/sec for LP.

ARMOR these would have 30% armor restored for STD, 40% for ADV, 60% for PRO and 80% for LP and they would give a 5s buff on Armor Resistance: 30% resistance on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% on PRO and 60% for LP.
On the fitting cost, while the cost on CPU would be slightly higer than the "Normal" variant the PG cost would be heavy.

SHIELD these upon revive would also restore some shields and kick-start Shield Regeneration while boosting the Shield Recharge Rate for 5s, since the added benefits these should be hard to fit, so heavy cost on CPU and moderately high cost on PG.
For the STD variant 30% Armor Restored, 50 HP of Shields restored, 25% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the ADV variant 50% Armor Restored, 100 HP of Shields restored, 50% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the PRO variant 60% Armor Restored, 150 HP of Shields restored, 75% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.
For the LP variant 80% Armor Restored, 200 HP of Shields restored, 100% bonus to Shield Recharge Rate.

Nanite Injector Skill: +1s of effect per level

Repair Tools
Repair Tools offer many choises, the only thing I would like to be introduced is a "Shield" variant (I'm no expert but I know that in EVE there are Armor-Logis and Shield-Logis so you know: "One universe, one war", CCP I know you're reading gimme ma Shield Repper! ).

Regarding the skill bonus I can't mess with range and repair rate because there should be the Minmatar Logi (<3) bonus to take care of that; I was thinking "The Logi repairs the others but who repairs the logi?" so I had the idea of a self-repair bonus on the Repair Tool.
This could be impemented in three possible ways: passive, active, semi-active.

PASSIVE: really simple, hold the Repair Tool and get the bonus. (I see this being abused of, players with a more "aggressive" playstyle, Assaults and Slayer-Logis, could have their personal Logi in their Equipment slot)

ACTIVE: again really simple, press R1 to repair teammates, press L1 to repair yourself. (Again I see this getting abused of, even if this could be balanced by some sort of cooldown bar)

Semi-ACTIVE: you would gain the self-repair bonus only while actively repairing an ally (this is what I like the most, if you're doing your job and helping your squad you get the bonus, if you are a lone wolf no bonus for you)

Repair Tool Skill: anywhere between +2 and +5 hp/sec to self-repair per level

Drop Uplinks
Since the proposed changes to these I would like to see two new variants.

HARDENED: Hardened Drop Uplinks have more HP than the normal Uplinks (something like 5 times more) and a slightly slower spawn time. They cost less CPU but more PG than the normal Uplinks.

COVERT OPS: Covert Ops Uplinks have a lower scan profile (they should be almost impossible to scan) and a faster spawn time then the normal variant, however they have a lower spawn count, are squad-locked and there can only be one active per-player.

Well a true Logibro doesn't care about his KDR, your squad and the people around you are your priority, your job is to keep them always stocked with ammo, provide repairs, scans and uplinks so that they can focus on killing while you do all the hard work, because pointing a gun and shooting is easy compared to trying to keep 5-6 people alive while trying not to get shot

You make some really good points.

Do you think that Armor Injectors should have a lower bonus while restoring less armor? Something like: 30% armor on STD, 40% on ADV, 50% for PRO and 60% for LP with 10% resist on STD, 20% on ADV and 30% on PRO and LP or is this still too much? Or should they be entirely removed?
As for Shield Injectors I added the instant-boost because of the depleted timer, we could get rid of it if, for the buff duration, the shield delay was always 0. For armor percentages were you suggesting 10-20% less of what I suggested or 10-20% armor restored upon revive?

I knew the self-reps would have been difficult to balance but I think that a fixed value (let's say 10-15 hp/sec) is more fair than a % based one, I would get more self-reps while behind a heavy with the Core Focused making us even harder to kill.

I think I should delete the Active and Passive explanation for the self reps, I was trying to point out why those would be unbalanced but I think people don't understand.

Same. My kdr is not impressive and I don't care. I die a fair bit and its to help the team, but I use best judgment. I understand there are certain games and situations where my number of deaths are actually starting to affect the clone count negatively and start altering my game play. Otherwise, if its absolutely hopeless, I bring out the cheap silly suits and just try stuff. This game should be about fun and not stats. I'm having the time of my life and rolling in isk. I wouldn't trade that experience for a better kdr.

I would hope not, that will be too many skillpoints just going to suits in my opinion, and it sounds like it will be getting even more expensive. One CCP's more recent notes about skills was making them inexpensive to begin and increasing the cost as it continues. While it already does that they were referring to something different it sounded like, perhaps an exponential increase? We do know that they have been looking for some more ways to nerf vets with skill sinks and this was one of the possibilities.

And Lee, what is this about loosing a plate?

The ability to 'scan the unscanable' will make Gallente Logi an interesting player on the field. But we will have to see how scanners will change with the new 'Snapshot' functionality which will supposedly 'stop' the 360 degree ballerina-logibro.

The gallente suit is solid.
5 low slots at the cost of movement at proto level (though IMO it doesn't really hit primetime until then) and scanner bonuses.

Amarr suit drop uplink is potentially huge with the spawn speed slowdown
Substantial deployment time drop (50%) and additional spawns (up to 10 more per uplink)

Minmatar is crazy good for repping
25% bonus to repping amount is quite powerful and gives the same repair distances as current tools.

Caldari is ... okay I suppose.
I don't use as many hives as some due to running around with a rep tool ... and Injectors don't change.

I may spec into Scout suits for the hacking bonus and 2 equipment slots. Sortof a 'Logi-Lite' to do stealth drop uplinks and objective hacking with maybe a rep tool or injector on the side.

This is part of why I feel EQ spam will get worse. Both to create auras of health but also because like Thrydwulf, I don't run with hives very often and lately I feel that has been the wrong approach. I was that twirling ballerina but honestly I've started to run without a scanner. I created an alt and really built up better situational awareness and gun game (tho I still suck ), I'm prepping for the 1.8 snapshot forcing more eyes on approach and with the heavy event, I can't give enough ammo away.

That being said, I'm also seeing some high end guns that soak up my ammo faster than I can dish it out. Forgers and MDs are eating it up. 3 reloads and I'm out (ADV) maybe one more for proto if they themselves are not running proto. With the ammo distribution getting lower, I see hundreds of people bring these to the battle given logis can no longer do it alone.

And lastly, abuse. If one race gets the benefit and a fix isn't made to EQ spam, what's to stop me, a Min Logi at the core from speccing into a Cal logi stacked with 3 different hives, a Amarr Logi with 3 different uplinks and using them just to lay down piles before going back to my preferred race. Since we obviously each have our own preferred playstyle, (and some leaving logi because it no longer fits with the proposed changes) it seems completely logical to stockpile on the one suit to get our use out and never have to worry about again.

Well, I'm not a game developper but I think that constantly checking for what dropsuit you are wearing and accordingly changing the bonuses on every Uplink and Nanohive that you have already deploied on the field, and doing this for every player, would be quite a work for the server and cause performance issues.

So it's either:
A) Suits bonus to equipment is bugged
or
B) All that beautyful theorycrafting about server performances I made was wrong

I run standard Ammar Logi and im wondering LR or ScR. i ussaully find a heavy to buddy up and rep and when he dies i revive him.

It thouroughly depends. The Times have changed. I've been logiing since 1.4, and I still do not have my cores maxed out with 25 million SP. My Minmatar Logi does not need it. I have Engineering 4, Electronics 3. No more. Build as you need. As for weapons, it varies, I have every gun at Advanced at least. Viziams are great for a match with many scouts as I can usually blast them and kill them before they kill me. I tank out my Logi so 1 v 1, I can usually beat all but the most tanked out scouts, or Mouse and Keyboarders.

Assault Rifless are good for games with numerous Shield enemies, and even then I recommend the Duvolle Tactical. If you aren't slaying, then you need a gun for picking off the wounded trying to run while your squad fights the hard fight.

Combat Rifle is my go to in PC and CQC because my primary enemies are heavies. If mine goes down, usually the opponent is down to armor or very low shields. My proficiency 4 CR finishes them, and I rez my friend.

Rail Rifles are for Extremely long range warfare, and I only recommend those for when your in a squad or have the high ground. I can't strafe and kill someone if they are within 10 meters of me, I just can't. Some may, but I say keep your enemy at bay with them. It's a good lone wolf gun however because you aren't with the main group, so killing flankers and shooting from afar makes sense.

Mass Driver- No. It terminates the very people you're trying to save. If you don't carry a nanite( every true LogiBro does), then fine.

Shotgun (CQC only) I did run a build with this however for if you constantly being flanked because I shotty the flanker. Plus not having the lure to shoot people makes you focus on Repping the team more, and makes you itch to use it so your reflexes are twitch when that scout comes around the corner.

My main suit, the one I usually use for bush

Logi M-1 (I have the skill maxed out however)
Scrambler Rfile (Good for support and slaying)-Proficiency 2
Flux Grenades
BDR-8 Triage (Great repping for less isk so you make more money)- Repair Tool Operation 3
Kin-05 Nanite Injector( Allows people to run at least, costs little)- Nanocircutry 3
K-2 Nanohive( You'll need the extra Nanites, and being able to deploy 2 at a time is very useful)- See above
2 Enhanced Shield Extenders
2 Militia Armor Plates

Cost- 19, 410 Isk. I make an average of 150k a match if I die three times. If you are getting stomped, switch to Frontlines. The wallet is more important than the KDR.

And Please, don't skill all in Electronics and Engineering, that is WAY too much SP that you may not need to even use. I can have 4 proto suits fit very well with what I have. Get all Logi Equipment 5 first, then the suits so you don't constantly go Negative with isk. Proto Weapon not needed on the suit, it drives up the cost. A basic Scrambler or CR or anything, hell even Militia is more than enough. I'm in Ambush Only channel if you ever want to squad up and talk. 07

Hope this helps

They did but I think they had gained an additional low slot or two and another equipment slot.

TBQH (to be quite honest), that pissed me off and I'm not even an Amarr Logi. The sidearm made them unique from the other three. But thanks to people crying hard about how a logi should not have a sidearm, how similar it is to the assault variant, and it was better than the assault variant(I think people failed to do their homework on that one) ruined that. If anything this cause for the forbidden word(s) that CCP banished long ago (lol), this calls for a refund and just leave it at that. The would need to redo the text for the Amarr Logi as well since it loss the sidearm.

Caldari loses a low slot in exchange for another equipment slot. Now it is to where Gallente and Minmatar loss their unique aspect as the only two logistics suits to have four equipment slots. Keep in mind I am looking at slot layouts before applying the racial bonuses.

Just to summarize this, they standardized/tiercide the equipment and weapon slots for logis when in all reality it was not needed thanks to constant people crying on the thread (i.e. the suit that killed them over and over again is too powerful since they cannot kill them. Maybe it is because they fail to realize they may face someone who played this game for sometime now. Or people want to debuff the other suits but fail to realized they want this in order to keep their suit from being touched.).

Can confirm I saw some talk about removing the sidearm but I think Rattati was discouraged from that path and any changes will be in Delta, anyway.

Wait and see.

There are so many threads floating around with so many replies I felt like I wanted to put this proposal on itGÇÖs own so I could get feedback (and discussion!) on it.

Problem: Medium frames suck because Scouts can do their job just as well in addition to being scouts.

Solution: Moar bonuses. IGÇÖll stick to logistics bonuses because thatGÇÖs what I know best. (For assaults the Amarr bonus is obviously the gold standard so that should be the model for the other races.)

Currently the logistics equipment bonuses are as follows:

All: 5% fitting reduction to equipment

Racial bonuses:
- Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level.
- Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level.
- Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level.
- Amarr: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level.

No need to do anything with the fitting bonus for now. For equipment, I propose the following:

Primary racial bonuses: No change.

Secondary racial bonuses (new GÇô all per level):
- 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate
- 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision
- 3% to rep tool range, 1.5% to repair amount
- 3% to uplink spawn time, andGǪ 0.4 max spawn count? (that oneGÇÖs tricky!)


Naturally this would not stack with the primary bonus, so the min logi would not be getting itGÇÖs 10% plus another 3%. It would just get the 10%, and look like this:

Primary bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level

Secondary bonuses:
- 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate
- 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision
- 3% to uplink spawn time, and 0.4 max spawn count

AND usher in a possible era of Slayer Logis 2.0. People will attempt to use them to kill people and when they need ammo, just lay down a compact nanohive, over and over and over again.... Or an Allotek.... Or a combo Ishukone with a Wyrkomi......

And compound it with uplinks? Equipment spam to the max. Uplink and hive spam would be at it's worst. More laggy matches with more frame dropping and rubberbanding. Just no.

Great write up Fox.

Also, John, be sure to update about Active Scanners and the buff we receive with it in 1.9. Logistics with Active Scanners provide intel to the entire team instead of to just the squad. Squad Active Scans are still retained when using an Assault, Commando, or Scout suit however. (I'm sure you can word it better than I can.)

Thank you all for the updates and specifically a big thank you to Kaze Eyrou for reviewing all of that with me. I believe I have added it all to the guide. I am thinking of re-organinzing it a bit and I may need to contact CCP for some added area in order to cut and past and rework it a bit.... I don't know if that is possible.

Or it would be time to start a new LogiCode thread... which I am reticent to do. There is just so much good stuff here, and so much heart.

Or maybe I should pass the torch... have I been away to long? Can I come back and be as committed to Dust as I was before? Or have I lost that naivete, the sweet innocence and belief in this world? This is what keeps me up at night :) after playing of course.

And I to am now on the FW path. Looking at the suits I crave the Amarr. All of them. That will take some time. I hope the offer will be up for a while.

Was looking over the guide and noticed it didn't mention how the facing of those spawning on an uplink is determined by the direction one is facing when deploying that uplink. The time it takes for someone to turn around from facing a corner when spawning is more than enough time for them to get gunned down.

Also recommend against using uplinks in ambush. Just sets your team up as targets in a shooting gallery.