These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking.

Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.)

• What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced?
• Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad?
• Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard?
• What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields?

Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline

Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit.

As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role.

These feel like rookie questions ... so I'm probably over-thinking.

Note: This is specifically asked from a Logi-bro perspective (not Logi-assault etc.)

• What Shield/Armor levels should a Logi-Bro be aiming for by Advanced?
• Is that recommended mark different when we're geared for supporting heavies v.s. a standard assault squad?
• Should we be going using Ferroscale or Reactive instead of Standard?
• What is the balance between shield regulation/recharge modules and armor repair modules and armor/shields?

Perhaps in the 'advanced' section a look at general differences between the Logibro specialty suit builds? I.E. Heavy Support v.s. Advanced Rally Support v.s. Mobile Frontline

Subjectively, I 'feel' like I'm getting killed too fast to feel comfortable running Advanced suits. Due to that (and an aversion to loosing money right and left) I've been running Standard suits. I can currently hit over 700 combined armor and shields when maxed out, but I don't want to be a slow armor tank in my suit.

As a frame of reference, I run typically as a stealthier build with Profile dampening and Profile Dampener modules. And most groups I end playing the 'Rally support' role.

1) What racial suit are you running? On my ADV Caldari I run with 407 Shields and 94 Armor, on my ADV Minmatar I usually run 167 Shields 391 Armor, generally speaking if you have 500+ HP you should be fine.

2) I have many different fits, for my heavy support I run with 50% Needle, Scanner and Core Focused Repair Tool. The Core is mandatory for effective Logibroing, I like the scanner because Heavies have no eyes, you can swap the Needle for a Nanohive if you want. My "go-to" fit that I run with Assault squads has K2 Hive/BDR8 Triage Repper/Quantum A45 Scanner, for my Heavy Support I also tend to run with more HP.

3) IMHO no, Ferro and Reactive in their actual state are not worth the fitting cost.

4) If I understood correctly your question: shield give you less HP but they quickly reaload by themeselves. Armor gives you much more HP (72 HP for Complex Shield Extender vs 85 HP for a Basic Armor Plate) but slows you down and has not innate regen, to repair armor you need to find either a Repair Hive or have an Armor Repairer equipped (actually your Logi skill gives you up to 5 HP/sec of armor repair) or have someone repair you; also armor repairs are generally slow.

Shield Extenders are High Slot modules as are Shield Rechargers while Regulators are Low Slots. Rechargers give you faster shield recharge rate by boosting the HP/sec you get from regeneration (i.e. you get 30 HP/sec instead of 20 HP/sec) while Regulators shorten the delay after which your shields start recharging (i.e. you'll have to wait 4 seconds instead of 6 before the recharge starts). Armor Plates and Repairers are both Low Slots but you can equip Damage Mods in your highs. All Logi suits suggest armor tanking (besides the Caldari wich you can shield tank).
Finally Shield Extenders are only worth at Complex level and are not cheap at all when it comes to fitting cost.

Edit: I forgot to mention Shield Energizers, they give you much better recharge rates at the cost of a small % (I think it's 6% for the Complex) of your suit BASE shields

Thanks for chiming in and lending a hand.

To help though, please list your race, current SP and 2 common fits you use.

6.04 mil SP
Race: Primary Minmatar Logi Suit III
Secondary: Gallente Logi II

Rally Build:
Standard Min Logi Suit
2x Militia Profile Dampeners
Militia Cardiac Regulator
2 x Militia Shield Extenders
SMG
Locus or Flux (sometimes A/V but not normally)
R-9 Uplink / Militia Stick / BDR-2 Repper

Uplink will get swapped out for the following as needed:
A-86 Scanner
K-2 Hive

Based on how I was playing I used the 5 Mil plan as a framework
I'm using BPO SMG (Syndicate) and BPO Dren gear for weapons so I don't have a 'weapon choice' made.
Added Remote Explosives III
Added Grenades III
Added Active Scanning IV
Drop Uplinks IV
Nanocircuitry IV
Repair Tool IV
Electronics IV
Engineering IV
Armor Plating IV and Shield Ext IV
Shield Recharge II (I wasn't using recharge modules)
Shield Regulation II (I wasn't using regulation modules)
Armor Repair II (I wasn't using repair modules except in scout fits)

I've been tending towards Stealth/Speed tanking and the SMG reminds me that I need to stick close to my team.

I'd like to chime in here on fittings. I run Amarr logi and enjoy playing a little recklessly (I don't care about my KDR and have enough ISK to sustain a certain level of stupidity) so I tank max armor and split my highs between shields and damage mods. That's my general fit, I have 5 or 6 different ADV suits with various combinations of weapons and equipment for different situations and maps, but they all have basically the same high/low slot combo of tank and gank.

With one exception. On my chubby chaser fit I go max tank with a core rep tool, hive, and scanner.

I figure if the heavy dies, I'm next so don't carry a needle on it. It's probably more likely that he will run out of ammo rather than he dies and I survive long enough in CQC to revive him. Scanner is huge for this fit because since it's almost all CQC, especially in a place like the Gallente facility, you have to know your surroundings.




Still pondering the changes. Not happy about losing the inherent armor rep, but since I love uplinks, I guess I can live with the Amarr bonus, though I do think its a little limiting to give each suit a bonus to only one type of equipment.

My Domination build is a two-stager.
Phase 1 is a speedy, low HP, all Uplink fit, made to get to the point ASAP, hack it, and set up uplinks for the team to spawn and estabilish a foothold; is a sort of throwaway suit so is really cheap, BPO AR and mosly militia modules.

Phase 2 is tankier and also has damage dealing abilities, i fit a A45 Scanner and 2 K17D (R) Hives.

I run Flux grenades on both fits because equipment spam is bad.

Well, shields are not as good as armor currently (Used to be the other way around) because of the low TTK. Maxing out your HP seems to be the most effective build currently.

If I still ran my Caldari suits (rarely now) I think I would probably either drop damage mods altogether or just use 1. Damage mods actually are not superior to just maxing out your HP, especially for a support-oriented player, and especially anything lower than a complex damage mod.

Also, you need to max out shield extenders ASAP, complex extenders are much better than enhanced. Armor is the opposite, you get the same or more bang for your buck with basic plates.


Build wise, probably individualizing for your playstyle is the way to go. I have one general suit with a hive, repper, and uplink that I use most of the time. I do also have a suit that is all nanohives like you are suggesting, for like a domination match or something where you will need a lot at once (sometimes I spawn in with that, drop all the hives by the battle zones, and then sneak out to the supply depot and switch to the all-purpose suit.)

This is almost exactly my play style.

My Phase 1 is actually a bpo scout with a bpo toxin machine gun and DUs.

Phase 2 is ADV Min Logi with a large number to chose from depending on the situation. 80% of the time its: scanner, repper, injector. But I also have builds with ammo/REs and increasing cost builds depending on the level of the equipment I'm carrying that is dependent on how good my team is currently. Flux grenades on all.

If ever we end up losing all the spawn points, I man up the DU scout again. I never expect to live in the scout, so I'm fine losing him over and over again as cheap as he is.

The other day I spawned into a game we were losing but was determined to get boots back on the ground. Even though we still lost, I had a smile on my face because of how well my team kept trying. We lost all the DUs I placed earlier so I ran to the other side of the complex and laid down 2 more in opposing sides. I got killed, then my team came and flanked him on both sides and made a good push. It's amazing how much such little placements can really start to turn tides. Wasn't a win on the score board but was a win to know supporting has its place in this game.

Well done, well done. Your rally approach seems most befitting.

Plates... i disagree a little. The penalty to speed is the major detractor but the protection offered is better than the alternatives. Basics are nice, but Enhanced seem to be the sweet spot. The complex sacrifices too much speed - unless you are guarding a heavy - for an extra 25 HPs. HOWEVER I strongly suggest that if you use any of them you should max out the armor skill, the extra amount of armor given as a bonus makes a difference. - it is a side skill for sure, one to upgrade when more of the criticals are done, but for armor tanking it is essential.

Thank you all for your additions.

Hmm.... you've almost convinced me to finally get level 5 on the core armor skill. I had been following Shay-z's advice and leaving it alone for a long time since it only applies to the base armor of the suit, not any plates. Gonna think about that one...

The key to uplink placement, especially in domination is definitely to create multiple angles of attack just like you describe. This is my approach, I use a "Fossil" BPO, generally. The 2 equip slots are key. It's a little slower but more durable and flexible than my dragonfly scout. Gotta love BPO's for those suicide missions.

I've read this post. It's a great read. I wish I had seen it much earlier in my logi days. There were still some nice fleshy bits I got from it, but 6 months ago, I was that tard putting droplinks facing the wall and right on top of the objective. If I had seen this post, I'd be in a much better spot today.

Every logi should be posting on the new equipment stats. Here is what I have written:

Thanks:
CCP, Thank you for posting these stats early in an effort to communicate with the community. Though there are many varied opinions and replies CCP's professionalism in asking for feedback in these coming updates allows for, what I feel, will be a positive change overall. Thank you for hearing your consumer base that is desiring to respond to ideas before they are initiated and opening the door for possible insights that may not have been fully explored in house.


Item Feedback: From an experienced Logibro.
Deployable Equipment: These adjustments will be trouble if new system for destroying items when the merc changes suits - negates cluster limitation, DUs, and all deployable equipment. One nerf, not two please.

Suit Bonus Influence: Reason for changes MUST NOT be for possible future suit bonus as that would mean the the bonuses are SET IN STONE which is another matter altogether. Changes should have reason and purpose independent of this.

Drop Uplinks (DU): SUPPORTED. Currently spammed. The top level items allowing for near immediate return to battle. They renders many other spawning options irrelevant due to shortened spawn time and unique locations. They also have more HP than many of the dropsuits that are in battle.

The new adjustments the new DUs, without any changes to current spawn timers at CRU's or objectives, mean sacrificing speed for positioning until the Uplinks reach the Prototype level with the spawn time either near half of what it would have been or just over a normal 10sec spawn time. I believe this to be a good change as it may shift battles to waves of skirmishes rather than a constant and unrelenting battle - as fun as it may be searching for all the uplinks and only being able to take a breath once a whole area is clear and everything hacked - could be a positive change. The drop in item health is welcomed.

The resistance to players wanting this change is understandable.


Nanohives: NOT SUPPORTED. Currently they may or may not last longer than the mercs that place them in battle, depending on the ammo resupplied (or triage). Whether that is because the squad using them had moved on, whether it is because they all died, or whatever the reason there are usually lone random nanohives lying about at any given time on the battlefield. That being said they are often destroyed through the exhaustion of their clusters as well depending on how each unique conflict proceeds.

I find that without further information on the reason for the change that dropping each hive's cluster amount by 1/3rd (33%) is unwarranted. CCP's data may explain if more are wasted rather than used up as the reason, or somehow this shift will lead to the projected gameplay experience with waves of battle and increased TTK.

Suggestion If the adjustment was made for less clusters BUT added one more deployable hive and kept the max active limit enforced then the change would be less grotesque. Allowing for limited resupply, keeping in line with the waves of battle idea, the reward for surviving would be to be being able to deploy another hive - death would eliminate that possibility and equipment would be lost/wasted. With the current limited information we have available - I do not support this change.


Repair Tools: MIXED SUPPORT. Currently they repair survivors and may be used to keep a merc alive under certain amounts of enemy fire. The proposed changes alter 1 repair tool's repair rate and changes all repair tools' ranges.

Core Focused Rate: IFF (IF and only IF) TTK is increased and weapon fire damage decreased -ect. - then the repair rate change is acceptable as this new playstyle may be nearly identical and a repair rate that high may be seen as acceptable. (not addressing suit bonuses here). That being said - in the current gameplay the adjustment doesn't fit as it is not quiet enough to keep a suit alive in most conflict situations. However, if this new playstyle of logi/heavy is unwanted in the projected vision of the game then the adjustment would signal the end of such useful duos and lead to needing two reppers on a soldier (removing another from battle) to accomplish the same thing - the original reason this wasn't done in the past as that kind of coordination is nearly impossible with movement and streams.

Range: UNSUPPORTED. Distance is difficult to measure in this game. Sprinting F's up the hud distance and there is no readout for even guessing the distance of those lines on the radar (middle line is like 70 meters or something), but even then guessing the distance to lock onto someone was difficult enough and the current range (especially flux) allowed for working with the TERRIBLE LOCK ON MECHANIC in order to acquire a lock and begin repping the soldier. The current distance was also a buffer that allowed the logi to finish repping while the mercs sprinted away and also allowed the Logi to adjust their position during battle if keeping the merc(s) repped, to try and stay alive, while the mercs with big guns fight the red dots.

Suggestions:
Lock on times need adjusted (regardless of any other change - distance just made it more manageable).
A range increase at each new tier. It starts that way with the next level meeting the flux distance: std 10, flux 15. Then adv 15, (No FLUX?) 18-20. Then proto 18-20, flux 23-25. Distance (useless against RRs) is how a repair logi stays alive and keeps his mercs alive. This should not change and 10m MUST be the minimum distance as it feels almost like melee combat. No lock should be closer.


Active Scanners: SUPPORTED.

Feedback requests from CCP:

New Equipment Stats. Nerf to all equipment.
- Cooldown times on scanners increased. Scanner functionality has been improved to do GÇ£snapshotGÇ¥ scans in order to stop 360 degree spins.
- Range on repair tools reduced. and the core focused repair rate is reduced to original 125 hp/s
- Drop uplink spawn times increased.
- Nanohive nanite supply reduced.

Dropsuit Stats and Skills. New Sentinel (heavy), Commando, and Scout bonuses. Lots of debates going on about slot and hp amounts and scout bonuses - scouts do get better generally but the amarr bonus is crap and still coming up with ideas on what to do.

Weapon Stats and Ranges
New pistols look OP - some debate about it, but we won't know how much of a game killer they are until they are deployed in battle - much like the RR and CR were a big surprise and are now THE dominant weapons on the field right now.

On a side note
Possible suit bonuses that include the medium frames of assault and logi

Currently the logi and assault bonuses are a mistake. The logi has a good class bonus but the racials leave much to be desired when they could be instead incorporated into a skill tree. And the assault bonuses decrease TTK with the ROF increase and now apparently have the old logi bonuses... Currently they are the subject of much debate.