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The Logi Code. Guide to Logi Success. Updated for Uprising

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RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:10:00 - [1] - Quote THE LOGI CODE, Five R's updated for Uprising - Rezz Pick up your teammates - Repair Rep their armor - ResupplyAmmo, grenades, keeps the game moving - ReinforceBackup your team, eradicate the red dots - RallyCreate backup spawns or spot targets So you want to be a Logibro. Where to begin? First Understand your play style and how that changes with being a Logi. While you are a frontline character you are not to be playing alone. While you can improvise the scout or assault role you in no way replace them. You are a jack of all trades and the master of 1 or 2. While you will make your play style work for you, as there is no one way to do things, I have found that these suggestions seem to help the most. Figure out your play style to know your weapon preference. Then stay with your team. You are not Rambo - a Logi is an easy target. End your lone wolf practices You are slower = easier to hit. You have a bigger hitbox = easier to hit. You have no side arm = weapon limitation (except for proto Amarr) so you must be comfortable fighting at any distance and find a way to make it work for you. You have no backup, you are the backup. You'll survive better when with a group and benefit your group by being able to repair them or even rezz them right back onto the battlefield. Having said all that you should also know that because Dust514 is a game of diversity you can stack modules of many types to enhance your strengths, neutralize your weaknesses, or create unique dropsuits that are only effective only in a specific situation. The Role of Support Currently the Logi is the only character that can carry more than one piece of equipment,that is the draw of the class. As such your are expected to carry certain items: a nanite injector and a repair tool are the most basic. The nanohive, however, is the most demanded at this point because of the low amounts of ammo resupply points on the field. Currently most assault characters will be carrying one of these to help themselves because of the lack of dedicated Logis with adequate nanohives or even the basic. In addition to the basic equipment, and as your team needs require, you will have other equipment open to you, which will be covered later in the guide. The Bonuses of Being a Logi The individual CLASS bonus of wearing a certain kind of logistics suit is 1hp/sec per level, up to 5. You will have a natural armor healing bonus, it is nice, it does not replace a repair gun but it is nice to have. Note: leveling up one suit class for a race does not transfer that class bonus to another logi dropsuit type of a different race. Example: Leveling up Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit to lvl 5 will in no way affect the repair rate of a lvl 1 Amarr Logistics dropsuit. The bonuses do not stack. The Racial Bonus Depending on what race of dropsuit you have chosen will determine another automatic bonus for your logistics career. And since this also deals greatly with the dropsuit capabilities themselves the proGÇÖs and cons of each raceGÇÖs dropsuit will be covered. Amarr. +5% efficiency to dropsuit repair modules, up to 25%. The Amarr Logistics Dropsuit is the most middle ground suit that exists. In its basic form it has 2 High/ 2 Low/ and 2 Equipment. It is half assault and half Logi. It has bonuses to its primary stats in health and stamina but takes a hit in speed and overall slot count and equipment count for the bonus of the proto level he gets a side arm and 3/3/3. Not that great, and too great a sacrifice for the comparative loss of 1H/1L/2Eslots most balance to 12 slots. The higher initial HP is a benefit but not all that impressive when it can easily be matched by adding an armor/shields mod to any slot of one of the other suit models. Caldari. +5% efficiency to dropsuit shield modules, up to 25%. A subject of major griping on the forums is the ability of this suit to shield tank. Filling the 5 High Slots with shield extenders gives the Caldari Logistics Suit the highest shield HP in the game. Some assault slayers have moved to this class just to capitalize on the tanking ability while filling the low slots with speed modules. This build is a good choice for those who like to shield tank. Shield tanking offers a quick regeneration of hit points and lacks any speed or scanning penalty at this time. Overall a good choice for a Logi. 5H/3L/4E at proto. Gallente. +5% efficiency to dropsuit cpu/pg, up to 25% JUST for equipment. The polar opposite of the Caldari. Many Low slots, a few high slots, but balanced to give you the one of the greatest Logi possibilities in the game. The high allowances for gear means that he can hold almost any gear at the highest levels making him a prime choice for a support Logi that has all the tricks: injector, hive, repper, scanner, deployable shield, or whatever. The low slots allow for armor tanking or great module stacking for specific builds for hacking, sensors, sprinting, ect. A great choice for a logi build. The versatility that the character offers lends itself to specific situational builds quite well. 3H/5L/4E
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:19:00 - [2] - Quote Minmatar. +5% to hacking speed, up to 25%. This is the Logi from the previous beta builds. Though the stats have been altered and other options removed every Logi is compared to this one, the original logi with 12 slots. The racial bonus is decent, it plays to the idea that the Logi will be with the group so whenever the group hits an objective, turret, resupply, or whatever he can leave the defense to the slayers and hack the point faster than anyone else. This may come into play more when eWar starts taking a bigger role in the game. Lower shields, better armor, and faster movement speed allows him to stay with the roving packs a little better than the other Logis. A versatile, well balanced build as well with 4H/ 4L/ 4E at proto level. A good all around choice for a Logi. Normally what I like to run. Each has a different playstyle and definite bonuses to their class and race. Choose wisely. STAGE 1 Character Building: WEAPONS Find the Weapon you like to use and that you are most effective with. Here are a few suggestions that I have found playing as a Logi: NOTE: Your Logi has ONE weapon slot- make it count. Put some skills into upgrading it. The best weapon for a Logi is the AR, SCAR, or a MD (when the targeting gets fixed) AR - the Assault Rifle is always the easiest and most standard piece of equipment on the battlefield. Used by about 80% of the players you can't really go wrong with it. It is simple to use and requires only moderate skill to master. Gek or Exile AR is great for a Logi, the TAC AR (TAR) is a semi-auto high damage rifle that is god in every situation. + can go 1v1 and live in medium to short range battle + most versatile weapon with many variants + easy to fit - you may be getting closer to enemies than you want, but that is your job if you are a Logi, stay with the team, or use a TAR to take them out before they get to you. SCAR GÇô the Scrambler Rifle is very similar to the AR but falls under the laser variant for bonuses. The basic version is semi-automatic (fires when you pull the trigger) or can be charged up to deal an intense amount of damage. An Advanced version is fully auto without the ability to charge up. It is extremely effective against shields and pretty accurate. You will get more assists than kills with this weapon. Decent ACOG scope. + erases shields + charge up for more damage + scope is nice - not good against armor - overheats pretty quickly without higher levels in the skill - difficult to 1v1 with this as your only weapon - no militia variant MD - Mass Driver. The Doctor of area denial, damaging the masses and finishing off the wounded. Difficult to master and to start out with. A direct shot is powerful, but most of the time you will be aiming at the feet of your opponents to be specific in damaging certain areas or enemies. The blast radius is currently bugged and the MD took a major nerf from the last build. Those who use it are a dying breed until the physics or radius get fixed. + possibly damage many people at once. (mix in some flux grenades for a fun time) + proto is high damage - low initial damage (ADV and proto level pwn), not good for 1v1, short range, no militia variant - small blast radius with broken effect that leaves the weapon lacking its original purpose LZR - Laser rifle - NO in general unless you are proto Amarr. The gentleman's weapon. A tricky weapon to use and even more difficult to master. A raw beam of energy erases shields and causes panic in groups of shielding players. + damage at long range (though not as long as the TAR) + dmg mods can significantly increase the damage done near burnout. - low damage starting out, must keep beam on enemy, AND at short range YOU WILL DIE. It is less than worthless at short range, you might as well be be throwing food/squirrels/ or even your rifle as you have more of a chance to melee kill them than shoot them. Very difficult to use when your class requires you to be close to rezz and rep your team. - overheating can kill you - burnout suicide. - flare from firing through the iron sights make it difficult to accurately hit the other player. - no militia variant Shotty - Shotgun, hard for a slow logi to use, but deadly at short range and the best alternative in close quarters if you do not use the mass driver. + close range god gun. Finish off opponent when running to rez in a close quarters battle - range makes it worthless in open areas, difficult to back up your party SMG GÇô The distance nerf in uprising has made this weapon viable again. Still only in close quarters but itGÇÖs a bear at eating enemies up close. It is relegated to a sidearm for a reason, but should you have a build or two just for up close battles I wouldnGÇÖt say no. + effective against armor + fast reload speed - AR and Shotty beat it nearly every time. Sniper (NO)- as you are not doing your job, there are better suits for that type of build, Caldari Assault for one. Find one to focus on. Combinations are possible with the Amarr logi, (LZR, SMG) but I caution everyone taking that specific logistics class.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:26:00 - [3] - Quote Use the secondary skill upgrades to un-gimp yourself Grenades: A MUST. This is used as your secondary weapon. And with nanohives you wont always run out of these beauties. You must learn to cook these babies for insta-kills (one hit kills or OHK) - practice practice practice - these are your sidearm weapons (unless you are proto Amarr). Cooking means holding the grenade for a time before you throw it - or hold it and suicide. With the right timing this becomes a very effective weapon. Do not use the BPO nades, you cut yourself short by 1 (2 nades as opposed to the 3 of basic gear), and they are regularly sooooo cheap they are well worth the buy. Flux = shield burners, great for group support, but will not finish off opponents, choose wisely. You can either lead with these and finish off a player with a weapon that deletes armor or focus on shields with a SCAR to just support the team. A good combo is often these with the MD or AR. Locus = standard nade. Use a SCAR for a 1-2 combo or just use these as your backup sidearm. AV = Anti Vehicle nades, throw just above the vehicle - timing is difficult - and they don't work on anything else. They are hard hitting when you get to the higher levels. As a Logi you will most likely not skill into Swarm Launchers until much later in the game as it takes your whole 1 weapon slot (barring the Amarr Proto). These will be your tools of destruction for LAVGÇÖs and Tanks when they get close to your cover. Melee: If someone gets too close GÇô it is difficult to use, don't depend on it. And as a Logi your slower movement doesnGÇÖt lend itself to melee or nova knivesGÇª but hey if you want to roll that way go ahead GÇô I donGÇÖt suggest it but it could be a fun build to pull out at times. STAGE 2 Character Building: Basic Skills Skill Suggestions by priority (opinion), "defense is the best offense" Keeping yourself Alive, you can't help anyone if you're dead Your first purchases are going towards your Racial suit, weapon, and armor. Your equipment is fine for a while and will suffice for repping, rezzing, and resupply for the time being. Since advancing to the Logistics level requires maxing out a single race first and then moving into the logistics arena you need to decide your racial suit variant first. Will you go Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, or Minmatar? Each Basic suit type has itGÇÖs own bonuses in regards to slot layout. Your basic skills that you should focus on in the beginning will always be your passive skills. Skills that work no matter the suit or modules you are using. You should also note that there are certain prerequisites to get some of the skills. First Skills Dropsuit Armor Upgrades: +5% dropsuit armor per level GÇô maximize it Dropsuit Core Upgrades: +1% dropsuit cpu/pg GÇô maximize it Dropsuit Shield Upgrades: +5% dropsuit shield per level GÇô maximize it Grenades: lvl1 opens up new equipment Your Weapon to Advanced level: lvl 3 Choose 1 Logistics skill to Max: Repair Tool Operation or Nano Circuitry, maybe play around with the Active Scanner and Deployable Shield (coming soon), etc. This you will incorporate on your suits until you reach the Logistics level. STAGE 3 Choose Your Race primary focus Play every Medium racial variant to get an idea of the types of bonuses you would receive, and their strengths and weaknesses. You will see how you play with each and the future bonuses of the Logi class. It will take almost 2 million (1,865,920) skill points just to max that race to get to the Logistics class and another 63,000 to get just the first level and have extra equipment slots. Depending on whether you use boosters or not and how much you play that could take a month or more to get there. So, it is a commitment and you will need other skills in climbing to the top. The next few skills should be purchased as you can and while you are saving up for the Logistics level. Dropsuit Electronics: +5% dropsuit CPU GÇô expensive skill, purchase when fits are lacking Dropsuit Engineering: +5% dropsuit PG GÇô expensive skill, purchase when fits are lacking At this point you must choose which direction to go while maximizing your chosen Racial Medium. My suggestion is greater defense, and will be listed next. Why? Because you will need better stuff to go along with your awesome suits. A proto suit with militia gear is still pretty easy to kill. I would suggest either maximizing a few of these or at least getting them to the advanced level.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 210	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:34:00 - [4] - Quote - Reinforce - Depending on your Tank style invest in these which give a bonus for a module type and open up new levels of modules to use: Armor Plating: +2% armor module Armor Repair Systems: +5% repair module Shield Extension: +2% shield module Shield Recharging: +3% recharge module Choose your weapon and advance a useful trait for it (sharpshooter, reload, capacity, or the weapon class itself). A FPS game is based on killing the other team. Is the distance too great? Getting shot while reloading? Ammo shortage? You know where you are failing the most, take a few levels here to help change that about. You might also try another weapon or get the advanced/proto version of your weapon. Remember, light weapons only. Max Racial Medium and get Logi lvl 1 At this point you should be beefy enough to handle yourself and help the team. Moving to Max your Racial Suit is a good next move and then on to the Logistics Class. Your secondary skills will increase what you can do for the team, or you can choose to focus on yourself. Your First Builds if you made it to the Logi level Your basic builds should reflect the code with your weapon of choice and this basic equipment: Your first builds are 2 perishable lvl. 1 or greater Logi - Drop Suits with the three equipment slots #1- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Nanite Resupply (Nano-Hive), Repper (repair tool) #2- EQUIPMENT: Nanite Injector, Scanner or whatever, Repper (repair tool). 1and 2 (how I roll - find your play style) Whatever equipment you choose, or what type of builds you use, if you are a dedicated Logi these are the pieces of equipment that you should be carrying around. If you only have two you will build variations that suit the team that you follow. Injector and repper are usually best. I have found that the best High/Low slot combinations are as follows: High Slots: Shield Extender, Damage Modifier, or another Shield Extender Low Slots: Armor Repper, Armor, Cardiac Regulator, Shield Regulator, or CPU/PGU mods During your gameplay you will experiment with whether you are more of a tanking character or one that needs some speed, or even one that does better by just staying off the radar. I prefer tank, and it seems that most effective Logis do. STAGE 4 Choose an Area to Specialize - Rezzing, Rally, and Resupply- Nanites and Repper to lvl 3 to max. GÇô You should have one Logi skill maxed at this point. Get the second to lvl 3. At the logistics level you will be allowed to use more equipment, which means you will need better equipment too. Get some of your Logi skills to at least the advanced level with Nanocircuitry and Repair tool operation. Advancing to Proto Logi Logistics Dropsuit: Maxed This requires an ungodly amount of SP, over 3 million. It is not for the faint of heart to attempt. You are looking at a several weeks of play time and passive accumulation, with or without boosters, to hit this level. You will want to have many of your skills already at a satisfying place before attempting this Proto level. Then to get to the proto level is another 3 million (3,109,920) skill points = another 1 or 2 months depending on boosters and playtime Secondary skills for the Team - Rezz - to run to them Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades: 1% sprint/stamina/stamina recovery per level and opens up modules that affect sprinting and stamina. You could be a speedy Logi and speed tank. -Repair- Lvl 1 you should be using the Flux Repair tool. It gives you a longer stream and can keep you out of danger. Going proto gives you a two streamer... very nice, or one that can repair 105hp/sec at close range. -Rally- Get your active scanners or drop uplinks to a good level. A burst of red dots on peopleGÇÖs scanners will put the attention of other blue dots in the area over there. Or create a rally spawn for a fall back position. Secondaries for You (you selfish kitten - but highly recommended) These are all costly but helpful These other skills will help make the enemies around you pop up on your scanner even when they are not sprinting, identify spawn uplinks, and generally help with alerts before getting shot in the back. Precision Enhancement: +2% dropsuit scan precision (more easily scan others) Profile Dampening: -2% dropsuit scan profile (you disappear a bit more on the scanners) Range Amplification: +10% dropsuit scan radius (you scan a greater distance) Fun Things to Do Weapon: You need to kill in an FPS so maximize your weapon Demolitions: Play with this. You have the equipment slots to pack this stuff around. Proximity mines are only AV and you can lay down up to 6 of them at a time. Place them on paths highly traveled by LAV's to get free kills, and upgrade them to severely damage a HAV (Tank). Remote explosives are a good tool for defense. You can have up to three out at a time, 1 detonation signal will set them off in the order they were activated. Place at objectives - signal to stop/kill a hacker. Place in groups, at CRU's, or at corners and time the explosion for great fun. - you may get hate mail for this. Hacking: 3+ if you plan on being effective in skirmish. The Minmatar Logi suit already has a natural hacking bonus. This makes it godly. Spec into AV stuff. With a Caldari or Minmatar Logi the many high slots open for damage mods greatly increase the power of a proto swarmer, makes you the king of vehicle popping... but you canGÇÖt kill anything else. Or just really good grenades may be your bag.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 291	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:38:00 - [5] - Quote Listen to this man if you ever have any intention of fielding any kind of support whatsoever. Even for assaults who don't understand the usage of their equipment slot this is highly beneficial info, not to mention an understanding on what is going through the mind of the guy running behind you with that needle, repair tool, nanohive, etc. I would like to have all other suits read this to understand some of the demands that logis put on themselves already much less dealing with the demands of their squad mates and others on the field.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:39:00 - [6] - Quote STAGE 5 Fun Builds Logissaults: Logis that max out ganking power. Caldari and Minmatar can pull it off by stacking all their highs with damage mods and setting themselves up with armor or speed mods for an interesting Gank/Tank. A real glass cannon most of the time. Minmatar Logissault: 4dmg mods/ 3 armor mods 1 repair mod. Adv. Laser rifle and plenty of cover is fun for camping a spawn GÇô must out distance the enemies. Caldari Logissault: 5 shield extenders/ 2 speed mods. 1 Shotgun. Fast, hard hitting, and heavily shield tanked. You must also run away a lot. Gallente Logissault: 2 complex dmg mods/ 4 armor 1 repper. Repairing nano hives and a TAR or MD. Camping king. His repair usually out does the damage done and if not he can just back off for a moment. AmarrGÇª sorry. Build like any assault character. Infiltrators: Speed mods and Hacking Mods. Just run around taking objectives. Gallente and Minmatar only. AV or Antipersonnel: Mines and explosives play well for your character as you have all the equipment slots in the world. Use them, experiment with them. It can be really fun. Final Words There are many different builds and many different pieces of knowledge that could have been added. Like basic tactics - Move from cover to cover or "If you are dying before they do get more HP, if they are running off before you can kill them get damage mods." - not mine but very true. The trick is to find your playing style. Example: While the Shotty is awesome the Logi is slower than most players and also has a high scan level so the element of surprise is lost and you cannot evade as well - yet some people have figured out how to play well with it. I play as a medic. I prefer to cover the mid - short range offense of the group while the meat grinding heavies and troopers take the mid to long range guys and I rezz and repair when necessary. I like it and it suits me, as a Logi I am playing close to my team. I like the support role; however the Logi Proto suits are amazingly powerful because of the customization possibilities. You could turn your Logi into a dmg dealing speed freak or an AV tank. The possibilities are not covered in this guide. This is just for the beginners. Many other Logis have offered input and specifically made threads on different builds, basic tactics, drop uplinks, and many other subjects. This will get you started in the role. Experiment with weapons and setups to find your niche. The equipment bonus of the Logi is your advantage. Make a pile of proximity mines with remote explosives and see a tank just melt with surprise. There are different ways to make your squads work - you can be the one that tips the battle in your teams favor. READ AND UNDERSTAND These are two comments on what it means to be a Logibro, not a logistics class, a Logibro. If you do not understand then you are looking for a class with equipment and this guide is not for you. This is for the Logibro. Vyzion Evri wrote: From Vyzion Eyri, it fits with the selfless role of the Logibro: I will spend whatever costs necessary to ensure blueberries know they are never alone in the fight to overcome to pubstompers. There is no battlefield I will not walk, no mountain I will not scale, no LAV I will not stand in front of, if it means the blueberries realize that one day, one glorious day, they will be that man. That selfless logibro who gave up 500k in one game to prove to them that protobears may be tough, but it is the spirit that lasts. I will fight to the bitter end to pick up that fallen comrade, even if it means sacrificing myself by placing my shields between the body and the sniper I know is watching, hoping for a free kill, knowing that his rebirth will begin with the death of his savior. I will sink to the bottom of my wallet to ensure that blueberries will never cry for ammo, never hurt for armor, never sigh for bleeding out. I will work until the enemies see my selfless acts of purity as true Logibroness, and refuse to kill me. Sometimes, it is the simple fact that a hero can be anyone, even a man doing something as simple as placing a nanohive on a blueberry and telling him his killing streak wasn't over, that keeps me going. Chankk Saotome wrote: I have a dream... It is a dream deeply rooted in the Logibro dream. I have a dream, that one day amongst the constructs of Ashlands, waves of heavies and assaults will be trailed by golden lines of life saving armor repair, standing in the glow of restocking nanohives reaching out and crushing the foe before them. I have a dream. I have a dream. That downed bluedots will not be afraid or too impatient to wait for the aide of a nanite injector and even stay beside their fellow clone for supplemental armor repair. I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, men will not be judged by their KDR but by the true benefit they offer their team, I have a dream today! I have a dream, that one day, from sweltering plains of Skim Junction to the frozen peaks of Manus, men and women will work together and aid one another to their fullest for the benefit of all above and beyond their own self interest, I have a dream. I have a dream, that one day, even right there in the fields of Line Harvest little blue dots, and little green dots, will join hands as sisters and brothers in overcoming the overwhelming odds of reddot oppression to work in the full spirit of brotherhood, I HAVE A DREAM TODAY! __________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [7] - Quote As a last note: My OPINION only: I recommend using real money, buying aurum and purchasing the Lvl Logi suit to try it out. Some of the packs offer an easy to use Minmatar build with extra equipment slots - one of these would let you experiment with roles and using a class with lots of equipment options. An infinite Lvl 1 Logi build will be your base class for a long time to come. Also I recommend purchasing the blueprint (BPO) Shield extender, Armor, Armor repper, nanite injector, nanohive, drop uplink, CPU/GPU mods, and Cardiac Regulator. You will get better equipment eventually, but these will be your friends for a while and allow you to build up ISK for later purchases. You make enough ISK to support your builds, but this keeps me ISK positive. You do not have to do this. I just find it helpful and since I bought some merc packs a while back I have the aurum to burn on this and boosters. But, you do what you think is best. Many people are against this idea as it requires real money. And you do make enough ISK to cover every build and already have some free suits to fall back on. Again, I like this approach, but for others it is not a viable path. That is fine. You will get to play as a Logi without aurum. I never needed it, it was just nice to use. Once you outgrow the Lvl 1 items though you will look back at them and be able to decide if it was a good buy or not because you now usually just run advanced gear. Your choice, your money.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:40:00 - [8] - Quote This box is left here for the increase in size I expect from future Adjustments.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 214	Posted - 2013.05.19 05:42:00 - [9] - Quote Please, offer any insights you wish or ask any question. I would prefer that this thread is used for questions and suggestions for the guide. It is not meant to be an end all, just a working baseline for beginners.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 291	Posted - 2013.05.19 06:28:00 - [10] - Quote I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits). Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out.

Sana Rayya DA BOSS SQUAD 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 14:47:00 - [11] - Quote This is a very good guide and introduction to the class. I just started playiing Dust right before official release, but ended up investing in the Elite pack just to get the Logi BPO and I'm having a blast with it. Granted I am new, but I agree with everything said above aside from the importance of upgrading the Armor/Shield base skill as a "first" skill. I think this should depend on which racial class you are eventually going to skill into. The Proto suits hover around 90-180 base HP on shields or armor, so at Level V the benefit will range from +23-45HP - not significant compared to the HP from modules instead. Upgrading these two skills to V, in my humble opinion, should be low priority - much wiser to invest in skilling up your Logi equipment or modules first, then if you have the SP, gain them gradually if you wish. I plan to stat into Caldari suits and shield tank, so even if I keep Shield Upgrades at Level I I'll have 597HP - skilling it to 5 would give me 633HP, only a 7.5% increase to my overall shields at Level 1. An additional 23HP in armor will be even worse when compared to the SP investment - 609,400 SP to get either skill from I to V. Similarly, with the Dropsuit Core Upgrades, this might only be worth upgrading past Level II if your ideal Proto fitting is only a few points in excess of your available CPU/PG. At most, Logi Proto suits have 390 CPU and 78 PG, so is an additional 11.7 CPU and 2.34 PG for 572,100 SP really worth it unless you're already at Level IV Engineering/Electronics and only need an extra 3% to complete your fit? Of course, if you're over by only a few percent for both CPU and PG then it might be worth it, but again I think it should be an "as it suits your needs" skill rather than a first skill to max. I have a few questions pertaining to Logis that you guys probably know the answers to: 1) Is it true that Caldari Logis can get the highest shields in the game? BTW, I think you have a typo on the Caldari Proto slot count - should be 5H/4L/3E. 2) I have a love-hate relationship with flux grenades. Love them when I have them, hate them when the enemy does or I mess up my throw. Does the total damage done by flux grenades spread out over everyone in the splash radius, or is it 1200HP shield damage each person in the radius? Will flux grenades destroy Nanohives/Drop Uplinks/Mines etc? 3) Do most Caldari shield tanks just survive on speed upgrades in their Low slots rather than upping armor? Your "fun build" sounds interesting so long as I could avoid those flux grenades or laser weapons. 4) Are explosives worth skilling into? If i put a remote explosive on my Drop Uplink or Nanohive, will it also destroy the Drop Uplink or Hive in case it is overrun? 5) Your guide didn't make much mention of Drop Uplinks. Do you just run a forward scout to set up the DU, or a throwaway Logi build, then switch to hives/whatever after respawn? 5) If a tank has some shield damage, will my repper do anything to help the recharge rate? I thought reppers were for armor only, and did not effect shields. Thank you again for the very informative guide!
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 15:55:00 - [12] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits. I can see the numbers, I've made the charts, I do ridiculous maths. This we all know. But, I'm still torn about whether lvl 5 is much of a benefit for most skills except actual tools (modules, equipment, weaponry... Oh, and of course, dropsuits). Just my opinion, but my opinion is basically that I just really don't get it and would like some help figuring it out. Good call, and thanks for the apology. I've emailed CCP to try and move the post. Good points all. This guide is definitely in its beta form - as so much has changed and I only Know the AMARR and MINMATAR logi's and have no experience with the others. Therefore I am leaning heavily on the reports I read online by the sources I trust like you, Cross, and others. True, Lvl 5 is a large commitment for any skill. And some skills are not needed. As posted by another, Maxing you inherent shields or armor is not much of a bonus if they are so low. Thanks for the input. Working...
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 297	Posted - 2013.05.20 16:15:00 - [13] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: 1) Is it true that Caldari Logis can get the highest shields in the game? BTW, I think you have a typo on the Caldari Proto slot count - should be 5H/4L/3E. YES!!! Someone else is using my H/L/E slot count method! LET THE WORD BE SPREAD!!! Anyway, serious note... Quote: The Proto suits hover around 90-180 base HP on shields or armor, so at Level V the benefit will range from +23-45HP - not significant compared to the HP from modules instead. Upgrading these two skills to V, in my humble opinion, should be low priority - much wiser to invest in skilling up your Logi equipment or modules first, then if you have the SP, gain them gradually if you wish. Actually, a valid point... Always trying to maximize SP investment benefit and you're probably dead on here. Maybe a min 2, or 3 for whichever is your race's suit strength. You'll need a minimum to unlock the skills themselves anyway but they don't do much more than a passive bonus and if it's not your high stat it's not giving much of one. Modules are going to be your lifesaver for sure. Note on the Cal shield logi. Yes, it's beast... now. Mainly because it's racial skill affects Shield Ext MODULES, not shield base. Which is broken as all getout. It means that 66 shield extenders get shot up to 82.5 shields per module. Ridiculousness, and despite CCP's love of Caldari and Shields, it's a broken mechanic that will only lead to massive gamewide entropy. And by that I mean it will end up being the only suit anyone uses, even with anti-shield weaponry where it is currently. Also, I unlock Engineering and Electronics as I unlock modules and equipment. I do the math so I can keep ahead because it's really frustrating to be stuck with a tool or mod you can't use because you're just 14 CPU shy, or 2PG over. I literally had a suit last build that was 1CPU and 1PG over. It drove me nuts. Q&A: 1) Cal will have the highest shields in the game, but purely through modules and base stat. The "Extender Module Efficacy" will likely be getting a major tweaking if not complete revision due to the massive influx of the Caldari bumblebee. 2) Flux nades are glorious. If you're a shield tanker they can be your bane, but if you're armor or balanced you can just run in and kamikaze flux a team of the above Caldari bees and go to town with an AOE weapon like the Flaylock or MD. Even wild AR spray-and-pray can wipe out most Cal bees who haven't upped ANY kind of armor defenses in this situation. Fluxes hit all within it's little bubble (I love that animation, very clear on what the flux hits and what it doesn't). They WILL also kill enemy hives, uplinks, and mines (which will still detonate so be wary) and this ends up being a rather safe way to remove said elements, especially if you can't quite climb up to the building that uplink is sitting on top of. 3) A few Caldari rely on speed. I think many Caldari up their armor a bit. I think they all run at least one regulator though which is almost mandatory for front-line shield tanking in order to get those shields returning asap because otherwise they're stuck trying to hide in case someone DOES flux them and they're only rocking 90-110 armor. 4) Explosives are AWESOME, but I only think that because I've been using them for like 16 years now. (Goldeney 007, booyah). Anyway. They will not kill your own hives and uplinks as these get turned into "friendly" objects, but can be used to set traps for enemies by dropping a mine and immediately dropping a hive right on top of it. Most enemies will shoot hives up close which will in turn detonate the mine hidden within. They can also kill yourself obviously. This includes Proxy Mines going off next to you if an enemy vehicle runs over it. I've died more to my own proxy mines going off too soon or too close in Carmageddon 514 than I have to actual LAVs crushing me in recent times. 5) Personally, I have 3 of the exact same build except that they're as follows equipment-wise (injector, uplink, tool), (injector, hive, tool), (injector, hive, RDX). I run the uplink to get a good footing on a situation for my team. Occasionally my teammates can handle their own hives which is pretty beast as it means I only have to worry about keeping them alive and healed as well as maintaining our spawn position. If I have the time I'll swap to the hive suit for the long-haul but usually I just keep going in the uplink suit till I die personally and then check to see if more links are needed to keep the field populated with spawn points, or if they're good I'll go hives instead to give more support. That's just me, so not sure if it helps. The RDX is purely for defensive objective play where I'm usually sitting with one or two other guys and not moving the whole match. 5) Two 5's? Anyway... 5.2? 5b? Repair Tools only repair armor. This applies to Infantry, Vehicles, and Installations. The rest will have to regenerate naturally in the course of "not being in combat". That last one was easy. Thanks. I hope this helps. I'll be looking into those skill element points you made if I get the skill respec as requested. I intend to follow the general same path but with the skill changes proto class suits will be about the same cost as it is to get into Advanced spec suits currently (Yes, I've done this math already, it's not that hard with my charts). As for the others I'll be running numbers again once we get finalized SP multiplier listings but you're definitely on to something there. Maybe even just the 1point minimum to have points to max out reppers, extenders, regulators, and even other tools... Yes, I'll definitely be looking into this. But I'll still be getting the lvl 4 Engineering/Electronics as I'm already pushing things with just adv gear on an adv logi suit. Heck, I use an 'Exile' as a weapon because it's all I can fit. And the forums want to LOWER my CPU/PG!? Bahh. BAHH I say!!!
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 220	Posted - 2013.05.20 20:54:00 - [14] - Quote ^^ Amen brother. Thanks for fielding those questions. I've taken both of your recomendations and taken about 5 more hours to reorganize and rewrite the parts. Please comment again. Adjusted. -reading flow and format -sections divided and reorganized -skill value and recommendations for specific suits -spoke to basic fittings -adjusted recommended levels for skills -rewrote suit opinions -... writing this post after all that work = my mind has turned to jelly. Thanks for your input I'll keep working tomorrow.
shady merc RisingSuns 0	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:32:00 - [15] - Quote Very nice guide you have put together. Here is some food for thought for younger logi on a few pieces of equipment. Drop-links: I love these things. My first suit in every battle has them( drop-link,nano,repair). Not only are these easy points for you but it will let your dead team mates rejoin the fight a bit safer. Without a drop-link on the field you will either spawn on the front lines( usually without cover ) or randomly on the map somewhere. You will notice that a couple of drop-link are capable of more then 1 active at a time. This is both a blessing and a curse. Being able to drop 2 links will allow you to drop a very safe spawn point and a spawn point right on the front lines so even if your team loses the front line everyone can still spawn in as a group. The benefit of only being allowed to have one active drop-link is that when you drop the second link it will turn off the first one. You can use this to stop blueberries from spawning in on an overrun drop-link saving your team clones. Nano-hives: Of all my equipment this one and injector change based on what my squad is carrying. Looking at the begining choices the basic Nano hive or the advance K-2 are great for ammo. If my squad mates are carry a few nano hives as well you can switch over to the compact version. These do not last nearly as long but they do have armor repair which isn't accessible until Nano-circuity 4. The biggest advantage of using the compact is having extra cpu/pg for other module/equipment items. Example when I use compact I typically increase my repair tool meta level. Active scanner: These can allow you to control the flow of a battle outside of your squad. I find these most effective for stopping the enemy from flanking you. If you see someone moving far left or right just hit them with an active scanner and usually some one will turn there attention to them. They are also a good way of pointing out snipers to the group. I will problaly add to this as time goes.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 221	Posted - 2013.05.20 23:34:00 - [16] - Quote Thanks for the input Shady. I do need to add an equipment section.
J Falcs Bojo's School of the Trades 40	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:38:00 - [17] - Quote RedBleach, thanks for your guides. You were one of the first things I read when I first started playing Dust. Invaluable. Agreed that an equipment section would be great. And Shady has given a nice starting off point. The only other thing I can think of is a general tactics section. Little tips of the trade that tend to help in every game, but most people only learn after dying many times over. For example: Toss an uncooked grenade or two around a corner and it can buy you that second or two you need to rez a teammate. Of course...good luck getting the rez on the first button press even if you're straddling the corpse. Don't drop nanohives in a popular grenade point, place them a bit farther back or off to a corner with a little cover. Generally, you're added firepower is more beneficial than a repper. But, generally isn't always the rule. In a two on two, you're repper will do little for your teammate usually. Things change up some with a heavy though when their HMGs can hold groups at bay. This is more of a learned tactic of when to rep and when to fire. DU should be placed a little farther back than the frontline normally. They tend to last longer and are less likely of being overrun. The active scanner has unlimited vertical scanning. Always nice getting to a building and scanning for infantry on the roofs. If you have them,don't be afraid to use BPOs of other suit types. My DU build is a scout suit. I quickly drop a few links (one in between start spawn and close to first point, and another between first point and next point. If you run flux, toss one into a null cannon before capping. Gets rid of REs (although in this build, I am seeing much less of them than in Chromosome). Set up shop outside a hack point with nanohives and start chucking nades. It can buy the time you need to hold enemies at bay while your squad forms up on you. Likewise, the same is true when playing defense on a point. Let your squad mates know you are a running a repper. A lot of them will remove a lo armor repairer since you will handle rep duty. Use supply depots to replenish your equipment. Drop two hives, run to depot, switch to new suit, and you're ready to go when the two hives run out. Make lots of builds. A game changer is only a suit switch away.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 301	Posted - 2013.05.21 08:39:00 - [18] - Quote So taking into account other concepts brought to light I've written this up. So, check this build and skill plan and give me feedback. This is a min-maxing LogiBro, coming straight out of the gates with the new suit SP requirements. I'll do skill levels for every 500k SP up through the first 5 mil here. If you haven't got it figured out by that point then we're all really in trouble. Me especially for failing to educate. Again, I'm going based on my own success with a Min balanced-tank logi but this is a very general flow of the whole logi progression and can be tweaked but I think this is the best to maximize your total SP cost-to-benefit investment as early. I will make some notes along the way as well. Initial 500k: Dropsuit Command I X Medium Suit III X Logistics I Dropsuit Upgrades II Armor Upgrades I Shield Upgrades I Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Uplink Deployment I Nanocircuitry I Repair Tool Ops I Here you've got your tier1 logi suit, tier 1 equipment, militia grade modules and militia grade weapon (AR is all we're gonna have for a while, sorry) right at the start. We'll work on those modules next since we want to stay alive to make our first couple million SP. NOT just running through a meat grinder. 1mil: Armor Plates vs Shield Extenders: I of one, III of the other. (I'm going show these a lot. Just use whichever best fits your race or gameplay style but stick with it and keep that your prime defensive line, superior to the other) Armor Repair Systems I Shield Regulator I Engineering I Electronics I Repair Tool Ops III Now you've got your tier1 logi suit with tier1 modules, equipment, still a militia grade weapon but that's coming next. _____________________________________ Break and make an ALT. Is it made yet? Okay, now log in and do the following: Use that ALT's starter 500k SP and buy straight into these skills and nothing else. You're just using this character to test weapon types and then they're going bye-bye: Weaponry II, Light Weapon Ops IV and the following weapon types: AR Ops I, SCAR Ops I, Laser Rifle Ops I, MD Ops I, Shotgun Ops I. Now we build the simulation. Get a Militia Gallente Medium Frame. Load it up with a couple militia armor plates to slow it down and no other modules. Then use your one weapon on it and a militia repair tool, no hives, no injectors. The purpose of this is to keep you in the mindset of a LogiBro from start to finish even during this little side excursion. Now you're a super-scrub logi. Go die like you're supposed to... a LOT. But more importantly, get a feel for the weapons. Their general alterations as you progress in levels aren't that different from the militia or starting tier so if you can't handle it now you won't be able to later either. Yes, you're wasting time but this is a good practice before specing into anything in DUST if you don't want to waste days, or weeks, or even months of SP on unnecessary skill branches. Got a weapon you like? A SINGLE weapon you will rarely if ever deviate from. And if you will it will only be for militia grade? No, seriously, you can't be wasting points. I'm gonna go for the most costly weapon to jump start with the MD in the LogiBro continuation but you may have saved some points off not upgrading weaponry beyond minimal requirements for the SCAR or AR. If for some psychotic reason you decided the shotgun was the logi weapon for you, you haven't spent enough time practicing. Go out and do it again. _____________________________________ Back to our main: 1.5mil: Weaponry II Light Weapon Ops III Mass Driver Ops I Nanocircuitry III Drop Uplinks II Armor Plating or Shield Ext II (whichever is still at I) 2mil: Armor Plating or Shield Ext III (Whichever is at I) Drop Uplinks III X Logistics Dropsuit II Engineering II Holy kittens, you're actually starting to look like a real logi now. Still tier 1 suit but you're carrying advanced tools and even some advanced modules. And that suit is about to change. 2.5mil: X Logistics Dropsuit III Electronics II And yes, that's it... Hey, just wait till you're waiting a month to get one level of one skill. 3mil: Armor Repair Systems III Shield Recharge III Shield Regulation III Now you're sitting on a solid ADV LogiBro at only 3mil invested thus far. But it can be made better. A LOT better. We have the technology. We have the science. WE HAVE MATHS!!! 3.5mil Engineering III Electronics III 4mil Armor Plating or Shield Ext IV Repair Tool IV 4.5mil Armor Plating or Shield Ext V (whichever is IV from above) 5mil Repair Tool V _____________________________________ This last one at this point is totally selfless and intended to show your commitment to the role at this point. Both to yourself, your squad and corpmates, and your fellow logis on the field. You are not a guy wearing a logi suit for some arbitrary means. You are not even a GÇ£logisticsGÇ¥ runner. You are a LogiBro.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 301	Posted - 2013.05.21 08:40:00 - [19] - Quote From this point on you'll need to continue along self-survival lines with upgrades in Shield Regulation and Recharge (because even the passive boost is a benefit if you're not willing to use the modules though they're awesome for frontline logi'ing) as well as getting that proto logi suit which is another 2mil all on its own and likely more Electronics and Engineering levels for their CPU/PG boosts. _____________________________________ You could also go fo the Logistics suit V earlier while at back at 3mil. That would leave all modules and equipment at Advanced tier III with the prototype suit available to you. I personally went for modules and equipment in line with and ahead of my suit because the proto-suits, even for specialization roles, are mad expensive and not something you want to be losing left and right while fully decked out, even if only in Adv gear. As stated before, we are needed on the field to do our job to the best of our ability, whether our teammates even notice or acknowledge our presence. Rushing to a proto suit without proper equipment and modules doesn't exemplify that ideology. _____________________________________ Of course, being thoroughly comfortable with your weapon here also, you might be considering an upgrade for that as well. Following this growth plan strictly sets you up to be one beast logi in my opinion, even if you're not totally sure what you're doing early on. Once you're set at 5mil, it's a good opportunity to go back and try new things. You might want to go back to or remake your ALT skill-tester to do so but there are some people having success with new scanners, RDX, and other equipment tools available. Be aware, if you're not hauling needle and rep gun first and foremost, you're not in your LogiBro suit. But that's cool too, because sometimes the team needs some tactical warfare logi'ing as well, and they're still going to expect you to be the one to resolve that on top of what you do already. _____________________________________ REMEMBER: This is only my opinion but also precisely how I plan to skill my own character with the next requested SP respec. I'll have another 3 million SP beyond this to get my my proto suit and Shield Reg V as I'm already running the shield version of this design and still maintain my RDX and Grenades (even possibly upgrade both of those to 3 while keeping proto Rep tool and adv hives, links, injectors, etc). But again, this is just me. I'm a madman. The fact that I sat down to write this all should alone tell you how severely disturbed an individual I am in the New Eden universe. Someone out there is looking for a failing, a weakness, and realizing I've covered for nearly everything for any racial logi suit. If I have failed for any of them, please let me know. With this being a very strong solid launching point from a Minmatar, it should be the same for anyone. And even those Amarr who complain they only have 2 slots so why bother with 3-4 equipment skills, just remember, a proper LogiBro isn't just the team healer. He's a swiss-army knife of awesome. That means having lots of flexibility and variant dropsuit loadouts to switch to when the need for them comes up. _____________________________________ A strong man can do many things, But the strongest knows he cannot do everything alone.
Sana Rayya DA BOSS SQUAD 1	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:00:00 - [20] - Quote Chankk - I was scratching my head while reading your skill plan until I saw the note at the end, and re-read it more closely from the beginning. Is this the change in the skill tree that we're being offered a respec for? I definitely hope so! I especially like the idea of burner characters to test weapons or other skills/buffs. In general I think brand new players are better off recreating after graduating from the Academy and getting pubstomped for the first few times, since more likely than not a lot of skill points were wasted out of ignorance or not realizing that the expected "bonus" was actually insignificant, as with armor/shield upgrades. That certainly applied in my case. I think ultimately the best way to skill plan is to work backward - design your dream Proto suit, then plan in reverse to see what modules/weapons/equipment/ you can accommodate along the way, and therefore what skills you need to fit them (taking into account having to skill into PG/CPU/Core Upgrades as necessary). Then, when your essential skills are covered and you're effective at your chosen role you can put the icing on the cake with additional nice, but not so beneficial skills. RedBleach, the rewrite is looking good, but I noticed you repeated the Demolitions paragraph twice. Maybe whatever made me repeat 5) infected you too? Thanks for the answers to my questions. I was initially considering the Cal Bee but I've decided to spec into Gallente instead, so if my build proves viable I'll send you my thoughts on it. I just think that the extra EQ slot and the racial CPU/PG equipment bonus is far better in terms of squad support since I can carry Lv5 AR/Reppers/Injectors/Hives/Drops while specing into Lv5 Armor and speed upgrades. I'll have no shield, but that will make me a tempting target once my shield is gone, maybe drawing the enemy out for me or the rest of my squad to finish off. Additionally, since you like explosives, the stacking bonus from Gallente's racial CPU/PG reduction and Explosive's 3% per level CPU reduction means that RE5's are about as CPU/PG demanding as Reppers or Injectors, and I'm thinking they will really come in handy in defending flanks or objectives, not to mention in traps for whoever chases the squishy with no shields Logi around the corner... BTW, was great squadding with you last night! Hope to link up with you in the future.

shady merc RisingSuns 2	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:35:00 - [21] - Quote added nano injector to my first post.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 231	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:32:00 - [22] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: BTW, was great squadding with you last night! Hope to link up with you again in the future. Sorry you caught me on an off day, thank you for the notes and input. The Gallente has alot of potential when looking at the math and slot setups, it will be interesting to see how it actually plays out. but without the armor plating you will have minimal HP, watch yourself. Chankk Sotome, Your guide to leveling up step by step rather than my vague "use these skills" is valuable to any new player, thank you much for creating it. I will reference it in the guide with your permission. Well done.
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 305	Posted - 2013.05.22 11:27:00 - [23] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I think ultimately the best way to skill plan is to work backward - design your dream Proto suit, then plan in reverse to see what modules/weapons/equipment/ you can accommodate along the way, and therefore what skills you need to fit them (taking into account having to skill into PG/CPU/Core Upgrades as necessary). Then, when your essential skills are covered and you're effective at your chosen role you can put the icing on the cake with additional nice, but not so beneficial skills. I did this today... JUST under 12 mil to get PRECISELY the suit I want... and on Minmatar without the Galle CPU/PG modifier to equipment. Granted, a lot of those points go into Engineering, Electronics, and even Handheld Weapons Upgrades to get the CPU I need, and it's a tight fit. And when I say "tight fit" I mean it's basically a lycra banana-hammock of logi goodness. But it all works out. With just over 8mil I'll basically already be there minus some module tweaks and the final proto gun itself and related CPU/PG skills, and that may actually take a back seat to scanners and other E-warfare modules. Look, I've used the 'Exile' since the MAG tribute pack . Before that was just using the Militia AR BPO. I upgraded to the GEK-38 before the Uprising drop and it was cool and good for a bit, and even skilled into it again perhaps too quickly. I've gone back to the 'Exile' because I just don't have the CPU/PG for all my other gear. It's made me BETTER at my logi'ing, and I'm still a smart enough player to get my offensive aide and occasional kills in as well. Not GOOD enough, smart enough. That's something all logis need to be thinking, be you proper LogiBro or other. Even if your gun game IS the shizz, if you're gonna logi you gotta play the field smart, not just bull-rush your way in and expect to survive head-on engagements because of superior loadout modules. But of course if everyone played like that, the game would be a whole lot scarier and more intense with people being the goddamn Batman left and right and appearing from or disappearing to nowhere.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 244	Posted - 2013.05.22 20:24:00 - [24] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: I apologize for de-railing your post in the middle. Didn't pay attention to the times at all and didn't realize you were in the process of putting it down. I have put in some of my own thoughts on the ideas above said combo-breaking insertion, and hope it benefits others as well as possibly motivating a dialogue on passive skill benefits... Chankk Saotome, First, I went through all of my posts and corrected the misspelling of your name "sotome" to "Saotome"... sorry about that. Second, while your input is valuable would you please edit you post that is in the middle of the guide to minimize it ... adding it at the end is no problem, but I cannot move it and would like it not to detract from the guide. Third, I am taking your suggestions for a step by step process from your post and adding it to the Logi Code guide in an edited fashion - I will of course credit you as the source - I hope that is ok, I just don't want people getting frustrated and lost at that point or missing your post in the thread - it is too valuable a resource not to post. EVERYONE ELSE Adding: Equipment Guide CS's leveling up portion to the Guide Spelling and other misprint mistakes Takes on the basic forms of the dropsuits, not just the proto so as to advise on the starting aspects of each race
shady merc RisingSuns 3	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:51:00 - [25] - Quote How about doing a section on squad equipment. I started working with my corp on setting up our equipment to diversify option on the field and over lap equipment based on play style. In a six man squad how many nano injector do you like to have?
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 251	Posted - 2013.05.23 06:41:00 - [26] - Quote Thank you CCP for moving the post that was in the middle, thank you very much. Shady, It really depends on your squad. I like two logis in a squad along with 1 or two heavies and the rest assaults. In a perfect world you would have 1 single group that could break of a minor section for an attack or flanking. there should be 3 Injectors. 2 from the logis and 1 if the logis are down. 2 proto reppers. 1 two streamer and 1 super max repper for the heavy. The rest of the squad should carry Nanohives. 1 Logi should have re's and the other an active scanner. Hopefully someone is spec'ed for AV with nades as well. and 1 logi should cary exclusively flux grenades. That was just some quick thinking that doesn't take into account snipers or scouts or vehicles but I will maybe work on it some more tomorrow. Good idea.
Kosakai CHON THE R0NIN 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:30:00 - [27] - Quote wow thanks it helps alot :)
Chankk Saotome SyNergy Gaming EoN. 308	Posted - 2013.05.23 13:31:00 - [28] - Quote Yeah, I had to move the text to my apology post section and then reduced the original to "." and flagged it for CCP. Amazed and glad that they took care of that so quickly. As for squad equipment... hard call... I LOVE the 2x logi squads, you're always set... but they're hard to get together and usually you're gonna be relied on to be THE go-to guy for logi'ing. If you've got a heavy in your squad that limits you to 3-4 on yourself and another 4 variable equipment slots across the squad as a whole. It is absolutely necessary that one to two of those other equipment slots be an injector, and a third likely to be a hive (or even a series of uplinks for early on in a match to set up a plethora of spawn points). That then requires you have your logi tool which will always be the true symbol of the LogiBro. Injectors are almost manditory as well (despite their being broken to pre-Codex levels of bad at the moment), which for most leaves us with 1-2 slots to fiddle with. With a mobile squad that's gonna mean an Advanced Hive or higher. For static defense a backup uplink is highly useful and if you've got a nearby supply depot (I mean NEAR nearby... I'm talking within 30m of your squad. If it's further than that then going to it is a waste of time for your squaddies and not an option in the middle of an engagement). If you're Gall or Min, you're all kinds of set to cover your squad. Have a scanner for preemptive data or RDX for objective holdings and infantry traps. A third assault or scout could also sport the same in a defensive squad. In an assault press you might need another injector or hive, or even a secondary repair tool. I have a couple assaults who have these dedicated and it's a nice backup if I'm not quite there to do my job to the fullest for everyone all at once. In the end it really depends on your squad, how they work together, what their goals and missions are, and who has what available. I attempted a writeup on this in my ancient and forgotten 'General Tactics Overview' but it was driving me insane because in the end I realized it just doesn't really work unless you literally have a dedicated squad which isn't always practical. With 6 people though and 7...ish available slots we'll say you'll definitely need the following: 2 injectors, 2 hives, 1-2 uplinks, 1-2 repair tools If you've got more available then a Scanner could be very useful as can RDX be, but again that all depends on your play-style along with your teams. EDIT: As RedBleach states, if you've got 2 proper logis, you don't want or need them running the same rep tool when backing up a squad with a heavy... unless your squad is just THAT squad with 2 logis and 2 heavies, in which case you kind of hope the others can handle themselves till you can patch them. And then if it's a field of assaults 2 dual-channel rep tools can usually be enough to keep everyone up to snuff even in the middle of a fight. If you're an Amarr logi you NEED another logi with you. That's all there is to that discussion. I think the Amarr are fascinating, and have a lot of potential to be some kind of assault logi hybrid, but they'll unfortunately never be a true LogiBro until Prototype. -/-/3 is rule 3 of the LogiBro Membership charter.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 252	Posted - 2013.05.23 16:11:00 - [29] - Quote Thanks Chankk, You've been a big help. I do like that you posted about having some drop uplinks - I had completely forgotten and was assuming the state of winning and defending an objective - not about having to move in and lose 1 or two guys on the way and needing them to respawn. A very good point that I often forget. Would you post 1 or 2 of you fits and explain why you have them fitted like that. I saw that some of you basic skills in your suggestions for the first 5 million SP had Shield regulators and Shield Rechargers. Using the Minmatar I often have sacrified those modules for something else, would you please share with me why you find them so useful? Like a before and after scenario with current fittings and older fittings.
Daivex D'Vyn Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.05.23 17:15:00 - [30] - Quote First off, this is a great guide. Thank you for writing it and to the others who contributed to it. I have read its several times and I understand all of the information presented. That being said, I am still having a hard time deciding on which Logi suit to pick. I think part of my problem is that all of my in game experience has been in the instant battles with mostly new players. I have created, specced out, and then deleted about 6 different characters to test weapons and builds, but I haven't gone as far a testing the Logi suits cause I don't want to waste that much time. So my instant battle play style has been fairly aggressive, while still trying to fulfill the "resser" role as best as I can in an unorganized PUG. So, my questions are: 1). What's the best Logi suit for a casual dust player? 2). Can a casual dust player gain entry into an organized Corp and be properly utilized? 3). How much of a difference is there between shield tanking and armor tanking in survivability? (Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar) I think the answer to number one is probably Caldari because it seems unorganized groups aren't really going to benefit as much from say, a minmatar Logi, and I will just wind up dying alot and not really being able to take advantage of all of the support utility. Ideally, I would like to be a full support logi, but if being a casual player is going to relegate me to a life of pick up games, I don't want to be totally gimped. My biggest fear is I pick Gallente or Minmatar and just wind up running around trying to help people that don't understand how I can help them and just spam "redeploy" or run away from me while I'm trying to repair them. Again, thanks for the guide, and I appreciate advice you guys may have for me.



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