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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10598	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:13:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Can't do Passive Scan removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam So let's focus on what can be done. Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed. Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener" Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there. I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:27:00 - [2] - Quote Everything sounds great with the range change you guys could make the scanner use a snap shot (so turning would have no effect) then alter the scanners long thin and some short wide. When you said passive scan removal did you mean passive scanner because it would probably be a good idea to get rid of it. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1561	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:27:00 - [3] - Quote In regards to spy uplinks? I'd love to see them be a piece of heavy-only equipment. It helps their point defense role out massively. they become vulnerable on the move, but strong on a fortified position. Make it function like a cross between a drop uplink and an active scanner, where you'd functionally have 'infinite' of them but they wouldn't be up all the time. Toss out one it picks up anything within say 25m of it for say 30 seconds, with a 1minute cooldown and a limit of 1 active, after that 1 minute you can deploy another. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10603	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:34:00 - [4] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: In regards to spy uplinks? I'd love to see them be a piece of heavy-only equipment. It helps their point defense role out massively. they become vulnerable on the move, but strong on a fortified position. Make it function like a cross between a drop uplink and an active scanner, where you'd functionally have 'infinite' of them but they wouldn't be up all the time. Toss out one it picks up anything within say 25m of it for say 30 seconds, with a 1minute cooldown and a limit of 1 active, after that 1 minute you can deploy another. Cool idea "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10603	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:34:00 - [5] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Everything sounds great with the range change you guys could make the scanner use a snap shot (so turning would have no effect) then alter the scanners long thin and some short wide. When you said passive scan removal did you mean passive scanner because it would probably be a good idea to get rid of it. Shared Passive Scans with Squad "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:41:00 - [6] - Quote Hands free scans from the passive scanner subverts ewar and have a low combat cost compared to the others e.g. getting caught with your scanner out. When I said snapshot I meant in terms of the cone duration not the ping duration. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 906	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:49:00 - [7] - Quote I like these ideas, not to keen on the idea of reducing the range of all suits to 15, that being said I'm not to sure the number my minja has to begin with. Edit: actually I can see that removing direction of the enemy is going to be detrimental to a minjas gameplay too, but if balance... I'm not to sure on this either. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 531	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:51:00 - [8] - Quote Like the idea of reducing active scanner range. To compensate for the fact that many if our maps are rather large, how about a new orbital strike that deals no damage but lights up the enemy for eight seconds or so? I'm thinking solo attainable, low wp cost. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8238	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:55:00 - [9] - Quote There better be an Allotek Version of this supposed Scan-link Equipment. As far as the rest goes, I can't comprehend it. I need sleep. I'll follow up with this when I wake up later. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 78	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:06:00 - [10] - Quote Increase scout scanning profile to 40db. (And reduce the effectiveness of the amarr scout skill so that it isn't insanely broken with the new profile. Adjust Active scanners so that scouts can't be scanned by basic scanners, but can by advanced and proto. Maybe gal/cal can beat advanced only with max passive skills. Tune the focused scanner since scouts would have a higher base profile. Rather than passive modules that can grant permanent boons when equipped, maybe scouts rely on a system where low profiles have to be turned on or off. Then your stealth is limited rather than something you always have until someone protos up their scanning. Maybe using cloak fields, but with longer cooldowns? Give Logis better EWAR so they can be a different kind of support. One that can put EWAR modules on to protect their nearby squadmates from unseen threats. Perhaps 20m range, or same scanning precision as a scout's profile. Rather than give everyone 15m range, lower the Skill and module effectiveness. 5% per level for the skill instead of 10. Scouts keep their 20m range, and everyone else gets bumped to 15m. Make the modules give Basic 25%, Enhanced 30%, Proto 35%. Or change the numbers so that stacking modules is worth the slot, but not so great that you become a radar tower if your scout fills it's low slots. Essentially, use moderation to balance EWAR across all the suits. Maybe only 5bd difference between adjacent suit classes (light, medium, heavy). Ideally scouts should be intel gathers/hackers with some ability to flank and deploy uplinks and such. They provide scans without alerting the enemy, and their stealth should be notable, but temporary. These are just my ideas as someone who loves scouts but doesn't like playing them recently as all the ones I see are twitchy riflers, or shotgun/RE guys, and it feels so cheap and easy. I'd like to see them be sneaky assassins/intel gatherers/saboteurs instead of light assaults you can't see. I want the scout roll to be fun, and still have some versitility and not end up where I'm expected to run a proto suit with 4 ewar mods minimum to do my roll, or where putting on 1 or 2 ehp extentions (not 4) to avoid getting killed immediately when spotted costs me my ability to do my roll nicely. I'm open to more ideas. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 636	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:06:00 - [11] - Quote can we get deployable dampeners?
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:07:00 - [12] - Quote Could you elaborate on "motion sensors" I like the idea, but I worry about the increased value of aerial positions. They are easy to defend when you have a few av players camping. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7025	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:20:00 - [13] - Quote This is my worst nightmare. As if I needed -more- of a reason not to want to run Gallente Logi as it is there are further nerfs being applied? Because we added team-shared vision on them? It's not like the Gal Logi is getting any benefit out of it other then the pure satisfaction that he scanned someone down, there isn't any WP benefit for it and (as has been stated) that isn't something that is likely to change. Reducing the range on the active scanners would murder their use and everyone would just start spamming spy-links instead. 50% reduction is a sledgehammer when a scalpel is needed. We're talking 50m on most scanners (30m on the proximity scanner!!), that's beneath the -optimal range- of a rail-rifle and just outside the optimal of an Assault Rifle. At those ranges, you've either already seen them physically or they're already shooting at you. Few other points: All scouts have the capability to get under a Gal Logi's Focused scanners, let alone any of the others. Gal Assault with two complex profile dampeners (I have this exact fit) can get under most scans reliably. If you're being scanned, it's probably because you're not bothering to dampen at all. Adding profile increase to extenders/plates is contradictory to reducing profile on some suits. Which problem are we trying to solve here? 15m (22.5m) Passive Range has the exact same problem as 10m passive range and the exact same problem with reducing Active Scanner range. At that range, you're already being shot. Reducing scan duration: Blah, the angles are already abyssmal and the current duration doesn't allow for a much better. Or if you meant Visibility Duration: Why? Is 5 seconds (CreoDron Active Scanner) honestly too long? Gal/Logi Cloak/Scout seriously needs an overhaul. It -cannot- be a one or the other scenario. Having situations that are so binary, where either a Scout can always have the capability to not be scanned or always will be scanned no matter what is terrible gameplay. Focused Scanner. 18 PG, 60 degree scan angle, 5 second visibility, and a 40 second cooldown are all the reasons I need to tell you why this isn't overpowered even at the team level and that's not even mentioning the binary situation above. Snapshot scanners are a terrible idea because it's useless information; it tells you where they were when Scout passive scans can tell you where they -are-. This change would annihilate their use as well. The gist here is that it cannot be binary and there always has to be a level of uncertainty. It should -not- be a 100% 'you will be scanned' or 100% 'you defeated the scanner' situation and I think we need to think outside of the box on how to arrive at that solution. (((EDIT: Ignore this, lost train of thought mid-way through paragraph:The easiest solution to this is to exaggerate the numbers and make them more profound (0-100 range instead of 15 - 60).))) Team Variant Active Scanners with higher precision (60/55/50) separate of Squad Scanners which retain their current viability. EWAR Ideas here seem to be swayed in the wrong direction, IMO. Every single suggestion here is a stealth buff to Scouts. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 908	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:21:00 - [14] - Quote An interesting eWAR change I'm going to throw out here. What if sig profile simply changed how long you are scanned for? An assault with one Complex damp being scanned by a proto scanner could be scanned for 3 secs. A heavy with no damps for 10. Some affectively dampened scouts may not be more than a blip on the radar. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3043	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:24:00 - [15] - Quote Please buff assault scan profile. I am all for normalizing scan radius for all suits as well. Scouts can-¦t be best at everything EWAR wise (just like the RR cant be the king of range and CQC at the same time). It could also motivate assaults, logis and heavys to use range amps more. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1561	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:30:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: In regards to spy uplinks? I'd love to see them be a piece of heavy-only equipment. It helps their point defense role out massively. they become vulnerable on the move, but strong on a fortified position. Make it function like a cross between a drop uplink and an active scanner, where you'd functionally have 'infinite' of them but they wouldn't be up all the time. Toss out one it picks up anything within say 25m of it for say 30 seconds, with a 1minute cooldown and a limit of 1 active, after that 1 minute you can deploy another. Cool idea Thank you, I was inspired by some of the stuff that exists within Tribes: Ascend for their heavy classes. Some classes have deployable turrets, others have a deployable wall (with a HP value) that damages people going through it based on how fast they're traveling, the snipers have a deployable wide-area anti-radar-anti-visual cloak field that stops working once you're inside of it, and so much more. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1841	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:48:00 - [17] - Quote Go slow Rattati Try the added profile to plates and extenders before anything else. Also, please look into codebreakers, the SP value and the efficacy bonus. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
NINEinch WEAPON WarRavens Capital Punishment. 17	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:56:00 - [18] - Quote Jus posted in another thread, but here goes again... Can we get modules to enhance the scanner.. Make them similar to the current ewar modules.. Would make other suits viable For using scanners.. Stacking penalties would be different maybe extended cooldowns... "winning" an inch at a time
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7026	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:05:00 - [19] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Go slow Rattati Try the added profile to plates and extenders before anything else. Also, please look into codebreakers, the SP value and the efficacy bonus. Now you've got me second guessing what he meant by that. Are we -adding- to the Profile with Plates/Extenders (as in, 50db base + one plate = 55db) or are we adding more to the -STEALTH- of profile (as in, 50db + one plate = 45db) Legion Transparency Me and My Girl

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10614	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:15:00 - [20] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is my worst nightmare. As if I needed -more- of a reason not to want to run Gallente Logi as it is there are further nerfs being applied? Because we added team-shared vision on them? It's not like the Gal Logi is getting any benefit out of it other then the pure satisfaction that he scanned someone down, there isn't any WP benefit for it and (as has been stated) that isn't something that is likely to change. The reason is to force the opposing team to run fully damped scouts, therefore having very low ehp. Reducing the range on the active scanners would murder their use and everyone would just start spamming spy-links instead. 50% reduction is a sledgehammer when a scalpel is needed. We're talking 50m on most scanners (30m on the proximity scanner!!), that's beneath the -optimal range- of a rail-rifle and just outside the optimal of an Assault Rifle. At those ranges, you've either already seen them physically or they're already shooting at you. This implies you are just scanning for yourself, not being 50 m on the opposite side of an objective and keeping it lit up, Furhtermore, if you want more range, us a flux, but there is a trade-off Few other points: All scouts have the capability to get under a Gal Logi's Focused scanners, let alone any of the others. Gal Assault with two complex profile dampeners (I have this exact fit) can get under most scans reliably. If you're being scanned, it's probably because you're not bothering to dampen at all. Two damps is a hefty demand, esp when scouts have a built in benefit and are vying for the slayer role Adding profile increase to extenders/plates is contradictory to reducing profile on some suits. Which problem are we trying to solve here? Pick your poison, overtank and light up, use a recharger instead of a second extender, or use base stats and fully dampen 15m (22.5m) Passive Range has the exact same problem as 10m passive range and the exact same problem with reducing Active Scanner range. At that range, you're already being shot. passive is through walls, since all modules are % based, scouts exceed lights and heavies faster by having the base higher Reducing scan duration: Blah, the angles are already abyssmal and the current duration doesn't allow for a much better. Angles, I believe should stay the same or wider actually. These narrow angles are difficult to use. Or if you meant Visibility Duration: Why? Is 5 seconds (CreoDron Active Scanner) honestly too long? 5 seconds is a long time to know where everyone is, currently its way to high in the matches, especially with overlapping scans from 2 logis Gal/Logi Cloak/Scout seriously needs an overhaul. It -cannot- be a one or the other scenario. Having situations that are so binary, where either a Scout can always have the capability to not be scanned or always will be scanned no matter what is terrible gameplay. That's the baseline we established. And as I explained, can not be changed to falloff. Saying it again won't make it work. Focused Scanner. 18 PG, 60 degree scan angle, 5 second visibility, and a 40 second cooldown are all the reasons I need to tell you why this isn't overpowered even at the team level and that's not even mentioning the binary situation above. I believe it's far too powerful to share Snapshot scanners are a terrible idea because it's useless information; it tells you where they were when Scout passive scans can tell you where they -are-. This change would annihilate their use as well. Don't understand this. The gist here is that it cannot be binary and there always has to be a level of uncertainty. It should -not- be a 100% 'you will be scanned' or 100% 'you defeated the scanner' situation and I think we need to think outside of the box on how to arrive at that solution. (((EDIT: Ignore this, lost train of thought mid-way through paragraph:The easiest solution to this is to exaggerate the numbers and make them more profound (0-100 range instead of 15 - 60).))) Team Variant Active Scanners with higher precision (60/55/50) separate of Squad Scanners which retain their current viability. EWAR Ideas here seem to be swayed in the wrong direction, IMO. Every single suggestion here is a stealth buff to Scouts. I have no idea what this means and it seems that I would probably disagree with it "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3296	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:27:00 - [21] - Quote I really would much rather have the team scan reverted if it's going to lead to the scanner to get nerfed to hell. For starters unless you have a bunch of people using scanners the duration of scans is already extremely short, for example the quantum scanner has 5/15, this is just barely enough time for your team to mobilize and eliminate the target. The range nerd I am probably expecting scanners to get nerfed to like 20-40 meters which at that point I will just eliminate all scanners from my fits unless I get a scan radius of like 180-360 degrees. The scanners are best used at long ranges because that maximizes your scan radius, if you ever tried to scan a target at short range most of the time it will fail. I do like the EWAR changes to dropsuits, but I do not like the idea of plates adding to the Sig radius. Simply because it heavily goes against lore, and since plates usually HAVE to be stacked more than shield to be useful it screws armor users over, specially when our penalties are already much greater than that of shields. On that note a Sig radius penalty to shields can be compensated for easily by adding a dampene r without sacrificing tank, an armor user would have to sacrifice tank to reduce the penalty which is counter productive because removing the plate removes the penalty and thus the necessity for the dampener in the first place. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13037	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:29:00 - [22] - Quote I do not agree with the active scanner nerfs, though judging from your responses to Aeon Amadi, I probably won't be able to sway your opinion. (And yes, I am dropping my scanner from my Assault suit, switching to a nanohive) However, just so you know, I probably will never fit a dampener on my Gal Assault. It's a hefty price to pay for losing 1/3rd or 1/2th of my regen. And no I won't remove any of my three reactive plates because then I have no chance against scouts. I need that buffer to react to their advantage of being the hunters (meaning they strike first). So it's a straight up buff to shielded suits, since they don't sacrifice nearly as much for that. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7026	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:31:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: -Snip- But they're not -going- to run fully dampened Scouts. They have no reason to when you apply changes like reduction to scan duration/scan range/etc. Think about it for a second... A Gal Logi with a Focused Scanner is what it takes to force a scout into prof damp mode; but the problem is that he can only do it for 5 seconds (or less, depending on these changes) and then he has to wait 40 seconds for the cool-down. Sure, there's an edge case for overlapping Gal Logi's but what does your data say about the spawn ratio of Duvolle Focused Active Scanners lately? I use them and I find them insanely difficult to deal with because I'm constantly having to flip through them, which means less time with a weapon in my hand to defend myself or my team. And sure, two damps is a hefty demand but if Assaults suddenly can start beating Prototype Active Scanners on a Gal Logi with just -one- dampener, my prediction is that the Gal Logi is down and out in any competitive play. Assaults don't need lower profile to make them competitive slayers and you're likely not going to encourage people into the Assault-Slayer role by changing that when Scouts are inherently better at it as is. As far as the Snapshot Scanners, from what I am to understand, it's scanning the enemy and then having their icon stay in place instead of following them like it does now. Which is bad because, as I explained, Passive Scans would -immediately- take priority because they would actively follow the target instead of revealing where he was 5 seconds (or less, based on what happens with thread) ago. What I meant by that last sentence is that all of these changes (apart from the increased profile on plates/extenders) looks like a suggestion to nerf Active Scanners, which by default means that we have less tools to actively find problem Scouts. A stealth buff, if you will. If we can't change the scan mechanics then someone has to bite the bullet and it looks like it's the Gal Logi... and that expressly disappoints me. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl
Jebus McKing lol Proto 869	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:35:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow. Do it! Do it! Do it! There is no reason to delay this. I expect a hotfix with this change tomorrow! CCP Rattati wrote: Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only I don't really see the point in changing the Commando profile like this, because with this change a Commando would still already need 2x dampeners to even avoid anything that isn't a STD scanner. Considering the slot limitation of Commandos and the relative small scanrange (even with the buff to 15m) I sort of doubt that many Commandos would start using dampeners. But better than nothing I guess. Assault change looks reasonable. 3x complex damps would beat a Gal Logi with proto active scanner. 1x complex dampener beats all scouts (except Amarr) if they don't have precision mods. I like. Extenders and Plates add signature profile. Meh. If you do that I think we would need a much better base profile. I think giving up slots for dampeners is already good enough for reducing ones HP if you want EWAR capabilities. Spy uplinks... hmmm... sounds kinda interesting. But there are too many things uncertain about their nature to give quality feedback. Can you spam them? What is the precision? What is the range? Honestly I wouldn't want to have these if you could have more than one active at the same time per merc. Even then I think it is very easy to make those totally OP. Scanrange changes are good. Active scanner VS deployable proposal = good. Won't change much but it helps making higher tiers of scanners useful even if a lot of people have dampeners. Scan duration reduction. I support this. Active scanners should be a tool to find an enemy not a tool to outplay him in combat because you can see every single of his steps. Assault / Logi / Sentinel / Scout // @JebusMcKing

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10615	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:39:00 - [25] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: -Snip- But they're not -going- to run fully dampened Scouts. They have no reason to when you apply changes like reduction to scan duration/scan range/etc. Think about it for a second... A Gal Logi with a Focused Scanner is what it takes to force a scout into prof damp mode; but the problem is that he can only do it for 5 seconds (or less, depending on these changes) and then he has to wait 40 seconds for the cool-down. Sure, there's an edge case for overlapping Gal Logi's but what does your data say about the spawn ratio of Duvolle Focused Active Scanners lately? I use them and I find them insanely difficult to deal with because I'm constantly having to flip through them, which means less time with a weapon in my hand to defend myself or my team. And sure, two damps is a hefty demand but if Assaults suddenly can start beating Prototype Active Scanners on a Gal Logi with just -one- dampener, my prediction is that the Gal Logi is down and out in any competitive play. Assaults don't need lower profile to make them competitive slayers and you're likely not going to encourage people into the Assault-Slayer role by changing that when Scouts are inherently better at it as is. As far as the Snapshot Scanners, from what I am to understand, it's scanning the enemy and then having their icon stay in place instead of following them like it does now. Which is bad because, as I explained, Passive Scans would -immediately- take priority because they would actively follow the target instead of revealing where he was 5 seconds (or less, based on what happens with thread) ago. What I meant by that last sentence is that all of these changes (apart from the increased profile on plates/extenders) looks like a suggestion to nerf Active Scanners, which by default means that we have less tools to actively find problem Scouts. A stealth buff, if you will. If we can't change the scan mechanics then someone has to bite the bullet and it looks like it's the Gal Logi... and that expressly disappoints me. Making the Focused scanner better needs to come with squad only. We knew bringing back shared team scans would shake up the meta, and we are trying to react to everyone being permascanned. Please be patient and try to work with us on a better experience. The main point is to reduce the difference between max damp and no damp, and allow players to customize their EWAR capabilities. I would love to run a single damp, and know I am avoiding 50% of lazy scans. PC is just another story. Everyone is running max specialization and it always becomes binary. 1% advantage means everyone uses it, not just a few. That's just how hardcore competition is, in any game. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7026	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:45:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: -Snip- But they're not -going- to run fully dampened Scouts. They have no reason to when you apply changes like reduction to scan duration/scan range/etc. Think about it for a second... A Gal Logi with a Focused Scanner is what it takes to force a scout into prof damp mode; but the problem is that he can only do it for 5 seconds (or less, depending on these changes) and then he has to wait 40 seconds for the cool-down. Sure, there's an edge case for overlapping Gal Logi's but what does your data say about the spawn ratio of Duvolle Focused Active Scanners lately? I use them and I find them insanely difficult to deal with because I'm constantly having to flip through them, which means less time with a weapon in my hand to defend myself or my team. And sure, two damps is a hefty demand but if Assaults suddenly can start beating Prototype Active Scanners on a Gal Logi with just -one- dampener, my prediction is that the Gal Logi is down and out in any competitive play. Assaults don't need lower profile to make them competitive slayers and you're likely not going to encourage people into the Assault-Slayer role by changing that when Scouts are inherently better at it as is. As far as the Snapshot Scanners, from what I am to understand, it's scanning the enemy and then having their icon stay in place instead of following them like it does now. Which is bad because, as I explained, Passive Scans would -immediately- take priority because they would actively follow the target instead of revealing where he was 5 seconds (or less, based on what happens with thread) ago. What I meant by that last sentence is that all of these changes (apart from the increased profile on plates/extenders) looks like a suggestion to nerf Active Scanners, which by default means that we have less tools to actively find problem Scouts. A stealth buff, if you will. If we can't change the scan mechanics then someone has to bite the bullet and it looks like it's the Gal Logi... and that expressly disappoints me. Making the Focused scanner better needs to come with squad only. We knew bringing back shared team scans would shake up the meta, and we are trying to react to everyone being permascanned. Please be patient and try to work with us on a better experience. The main point is to reduce the difference between max damp and no damp, and allow players to customize their EWAR capabilities. I would love to run a single damp, and know I am avoiding 50% of lazy scans. PC is just another story. Everyone is running max specialization and it always becomes binary. 1% advantage means everyone uses it, not just a few. That's just how hardcore competition is, in any game. Edited my above post, btw. I understand that you want me to be patient but I'm a player who has run Gal Assault/Logi for a -long- time now and I'm extremely worried about the consequences that this is going to have. I would much rather a reversion of the team shared scans to only squad shared if it meant to avoid any unnecessary hamstringing of the Gal Logi's role. On the other side of the fence, I don't see much benefit for my Assault either. I'd get marginally better defense by having to fit less profile but if the plate/extender profile increase goes with that I might just be in same boat as before. The benefits of a profile dampener would have to outweigh the offset of the plates but even then shield tankers would be better off because they'd be better equipped to fit profile dampeners. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl
Jebus McKing lol Proto 870	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:50:00 - [27] - Quote Haerr wrote: introducing a new bonus to Profile Dampeners: Scanned Down Duration -xx%, [...] It will also allow for profile dampeners to have a use even when their primary function fails, reducing the feeling that the modules are useless as soon as there are high level scanners being used. What about this, Rattati? Is such a change within the limits of possibility or out of the question? If we had that we might even not have to reduce visibility duration of active scanners. Assault / Logi / Sentinel / Scout // @JebusMcKing
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13038	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:52:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati, I think rather that forcing us to either damp or scan by role, you should instead look at tanks. Since precision enhancers take up high slots, and damps take low slots, in each role some races will be at a clear disadvantage with their choice of tank. Armor Assaults will be at a disadvantage trying to hide, shield Logis will be at a disadvantage trying to scan, etc'. But if you look at tanks... Since you normalized the range of all suits to 15m, that means with scanning V I could get 21m of range without fitting range amps. That means I have a higher incentive to fit precision enhancers than I did before, creating a use for an otherwise useless module for Gallente Assaults. You could even move range amps to high slots, but I'm not sure what that would do to scouts and their meta. If you incentivize it even further by making the EWAR bonuses race specific rather than role specific (Amarr -5 precision, Gallente +5m range, Caldari and Minmatar -5 profile), then that would be even better. This would mean that Caldari and Minmatar Assaults would often damp, while Gallente and Amarr Assaults would often be scanning, creating a hunter/hunted cycle with EWAR without even having scouts or scanners involved. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:55:00 - [29] - Quote I did try to be specific with what I meant about snapshot scanner the way I used it I just meant that the cone that you project is instant and static opposed to the rotation we have currently. As for squad scanners I don't think creating another ewar disparity between solo and group players is a good idea I mean team work is op enough lol. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3297	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:58:00 - [30] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati, I think rather that forcing us to either damp or scan by role, you should instead look at tanks. Since precision enhancers take up high slots, and damps take low slots, in each role some races will be at a clear disadvantage with their choice of tank. Armor Assaults will be at a disadvantage trying to hide, shield Logis will be at a disadvantage trying to scan, etc'. But if you look at tanks... Since you normalized the range of all suits to 15m, that means with scanning V I could get 21m of range without fitting range amps. That means I have a higher incentive to fit precision enhancers than I did before, creating a use for an otherwise useless module for Gallente Assaults. You could even move range amps to high slots, but I'm not sure what that would do to scouts and their meta. If you incentivize it even further by making the EWAR bonuses race specific rather than role specific (Amarr -5 precision, Gallente +5m range, Caldari and Minmatar -5 profile), then that would be even better. This would mean that Caldari and Minmatar Assaults would often damp, while Gallente and Amarr Assaults would often be scanning, creating a hunter/hunted cycle with EWAR without even having scouts or scanners involved. I though Gallente favored dampening :o supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7028	Posted - 2014.11.06 09:59:00 - [31] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati, I think rather that forcing us to either damp or scan by role, you should instead look at tanks. Since precision enhancers take up high slots, and damps take low slots, in each role some races will be at a clear disadvantage with their choice of tank. Armor Assaults will be at a disadvantage trying to hide, shield Logis will be at a disadvantage trying to scan, etc'. But if you look at tanks... Since you normalized the range of all suits to 15m, that means with scanning V I could get 21m of range without fitting range amps. That means I have a higher incentive to fit precision enhancers than I did before, creating a use for an otherwise useless module for Gallente Assaults. You could even move range amps to high slots, but I'm not sure what that would do to scouts and their meta. If you incentivize it even further by making the EWAR bonuses race specific rather than role specific (Amarr -5 precision, Gallente +5m range, Caldari and Minmatar -5 profile), then that would be even better. This would mean that Caldari and Minmatar Assaults would often damp, while Gallente and Amarr Assaults would often be scanning, creating a hunter/hunted cycle with EWAR without even having scouts or scanners involved. I though Gallente favored dampening :o In Eve Online they do, but they dampen -OTHER SHIPS- to keep them from being able to lock onto them. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13038	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:00:00 - [32] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati, I think rather that forcing us to either damp or scan by role, you should instead look at tanks. Since precision enhancers take up high slots, and damps take low slots, in each role some races will be at a clear disadvantage with their choice of tank. Armor Assaults will be at a disadvantage trying to hide, shield Logis will be at a disadvantage trying to scan, etc'. But if you look at tanks... Since you normalized the range of all suits to 15m, that means with scanning V I could get 21m of range without fitting range amps. That means I have a higher incentive to fit precision enhancers than I did before, creating a use for an otherwise useless module for Gallente Assaults. You could even move range amps to high slots, but I'm not sure what that would do to scouts and their meta. If you incentivize it even further by making the EWAR bonuses race specific rather than role specific (Amarr -5 precision, Gallente +5m range, Caldari and Minmatar -5 profile), then that would be even better. This would mean that Caldari and Minmatar Assaults would often damp, while Gallente and Amarr Assaults would often be scanning, creating a hunter/hunted cycle with EWAR without even having scouts or scanners involved. I though Gallente favored dampening :o Well, they do, but the slot layout clearly favors some things, and scanner Gallente and Amarr is one of them. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3297	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:02:00 - [33] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati, I think rather that forcing us to either damp or scan by role, you should instead look at tanks. Since precision enhancers take up high slots, and damps take low slots, in each role some races will be at a clear disadvantage with their choice of tank. Armor Assaults will be at a disadvantage trying to hide, shield Logis will be at a disadvantage trying to scan, etc'. But if you look at tanks... Since you normalized the range of all suits to 15m, that means with scanning V I could get 21m of range without fitting range amps. That means I have a higher incentive to fit precision enhancers than I did before, creating a use for an otherwise useless module for Gallente Assaults. You could even move range amps to high slots, but I'm not sure what that would do to scouts and their meta. If you incentivize it even further by making the EWAR bonuses race specific rather than role specific (Amarr -5 precision, Gallente +5m range, Caldari and Minmatar -5 profile), then that would be even better. This would mean that Caldari and Minmatar Assaults would often damp, while Gallente and Amarr Assaults would often be scanning, creating a hunter/hunted cycle with EWAR without even having scouts or scanners involved. I though Gallente favored dampening :o Well, they do, but the slot layout clearly favors some things, and scanner Gallente and Amarr is one of them. Fair enough but I don't see any talk of buffing scan modules anywhere. Basically turning this into a scanner (equipment) vs dampener war. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 908	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:04:00 - [34] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Haerr wrote: introducing a new bonus to Profile Dampeners: Scanned Down Duration -xx%, [...] It will also allow for profile dampeners to have a use even when their primary function fails, reducing the feeling that the modules are useless as soon as there are high level scanners being used. What about this, Rattati? Is such a change within the limits of possibility or out of the question? If we had that we might even not have to reduce visibility duration of active scanners. I like this idea very much. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1332	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:04:00 - [35] - Quote Giving all suits the same base Ewar capabilities in terms of scan range is a bad idea unless scouts get a bonus to the modules or that number is beyond 15 meters. As it stands now with the current cloak, to run a good Ewar fit with a fair bit of range on a scout, you need at least two complex range enhancers to get about 40 meters (one if you're a Cal scout I believe) This is a decent drop off range, as it allows you some preparation before engaging, but it is by no means good. Dropping the numbers down to 15 meters would mean you'd need three just to get that same range, and given the need for profile dampeners, there's no way to get a good range off of anything but the suits that have bonuses to range. I'm all for buffing the other suits' Ewar capabilities, but don't nerf it on scouts, at least not to that extent. Perhaps only running a Minmatar scout leaves me a bit uninformed on the capabilities of the others, but I don't believe someone who is already sacrificing a large amount of their possible HP/speed/hacking/regen pool to attain decent range should be nerfed, rather, buff the medium suits and perhaps even the commandos so they can actually do Ewar if they wish, just not to the point where they could easily outdo a well fitted scout. I want to punch.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10617	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:04:00 - [36] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: -Snip- But they're not -going- to run fully dampened Scouts. They have no reason to when you apply changes like reduction to scan duration/scan range/etc. Think about it for a second... A Gal Logi with a Focused Scanner is what it takes to force a scout into prof damp mode; but the problem is that he can only do it for 5 seconds (or less, depending on these changes) and then he has to wait 40 seconds for the cool-down. Sure, there's an edge case for overlapping Gal Logi's but what does your data say about the spawn ratio of Duvolle Focused Active Scanners lately? I use them and I find them insanely difficult to deal with because I'm constantly having to flip through them, which means less time with a weapon in my hand to defend myself or my team. And sure, two damps is a hefty demand but if Assaults suddenly can start beating Prototype Active Scanners on a Gal Logi with just -one- dampener, my prediction is that the Gal Logi is down and out in any competitive play. Assaults don't need lower profile to make them competitive slayers and you're likely not going to encourage people into the Assault-Slayer role by changing that when Scouts are inherently better at it as is. As far as the Snapshot Scanners, from what I am to understand, it's scanning the enemy and then having their icon stay in place instead of following them like it does now. Which is bad because, as I explained, Passive Scans would -immediately- take priority because they would actively follow the target instead of revealing where he was 5 seconds (or less, based on what happens with thread) ago. What I meant by that last sentence is that all of these changes (apart from the increased profile on plates/extenders) looks like a suggestion to nerf Active Scanners, which by default means that we have less tools to actively find problem Scouts. A stealth buff, if you will. If we can't change the scan mechanics then someone has to bite the bullet and it looks like it's the Gal Logi... and that expressly disappoints me. Making the Focused scanner better needs to come with squad only. We knew bringing back shared team scans would shake up the meta, and we are trying to react to everyone being permascanned. Please be patient and try to work with us on a better experience. The main point is to reduce the difference between max damp and no damp, and allow players to customize their EWAR capabilities. I would love to run a single damp, and know I am avoiding 50% of lazy scans. PC is just another story. Everyone is running max specialization and it always becomes binary. 1% advantage means everyone uses it, not just a few. That's just how hardcore competition is, in any game. Edited my above post, btw. I understand that you want me to be patient but I'm a player who has run Gal Assault/Logi for a -long- time now and I'm extremely worried about the consequences that this is going to have. I would much rather a reversion of the team shared scans to only squad shared if it meant to avoid any unnecessary hamstringing of the Gal Logi's role. On the other side of the fence, I don't see much benefit for my Assault either. I'd get marginally better defense by having to fit less profile but if the plate/extender profile increase goes with that I might just be in same boat as before. The benefits of a profile dampener would have to outweigh the offset of the plates but even then shield tankers would be better off because they'd be better equipped to fit profile dampeners. The plate sig penalty is aimed at scouts, primarily, and most of these are still just ideas. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10617	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:04:00 - [37] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Haerr wrote: introducing a new bonus to Profile Dampeners: Scanned Down Duration -xx%, [...] It will also allow for profile dampeners to have a use even when their primary function fails, reducing the feeling that the modules are useless as soon as there are high level scanners being used. What about this, Rattati? Is such a change within the limits of possibility or out of the question? If we had that we might even not have to reduce visibility duration of active scanners. I like this idea very much. really cool idea "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3297	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:06:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: -Snip- But they're not -going- to run fully dampened Scouts. They have no reason to when you apply changes like reduction to scan duration/scan range/etc. Think about it for a second... A Gal Logi with a Focused Scanner is what it takes to force a scout into prof damp mode; but the problem is that he can only do it for 5 seconds (or less, depending on these changes) and then he has to wait 40 seconds for the cool-down. Sure, there's an edge case for overlapping Gal Logi's but what does your data say about the spawn ratio of Duvolle Focused Active Scanners lately? I use them and I find them insanely difficult to deal with because I'm constantly having to flip through them, which means less time with a weapon in my hand to defend myself or my team. And sure, two damps is a hefty demand but if Assaults suddenly can start beating Prototype Active Scanners on a Gal Logi with just -one- dampener, my prediction is that the Gal Logi is down and out in any competitive play. Assaults don't need lower profile to make them competitive slayers and you're likely not going to encourage people into the Assault-Slayer role by changing that when Scouts are inherently better at it as is. As far as the Snapshot Scanners, from what I am to understand, it's scanning the enemy and then having their icon stay in place instead of following them like it does now. Which is bad because, as I explained, Passive Scans would -immediately- take priority because they would actively follow the target instead of revealing where he was 5 seconds (or less, based on what happens with thread) ago. What I meant by that last sentence is that all of these changes (apart from the increased profile on plates/extenders) looks like a suggestion to nerf Active Scanners, which by default means that we have less tools to actively find problem Scouts. A stealth buff, if you will. If we can't change the scan mechanics then someone has to bite the bullet and it looks like it's the Gal Logi... and that expressly disappoints me. Making the Focused scanner better needs to come with squad only. We knew bringing back shared team scans would shake up the meta, and we are trying to react to everyone being permascanned. Please be patient and try to work with us on a better experience. The main point is to reduce the difference between max damp and no damp, and allow players to customize their EWAR capabilities. I would love to run a single damp, and know I am avoiding 50% of lazy scans. PC is just another story. Everyone is running max specialization and it always becomes binary. 1% advantage means everyone uses it, not just a few. That's just how hardcore competition is, in any game. Edited my above post, btw. I understand that you want me to be patient but I'm a player who has run Gal Assault/Logi for a -long- time now and I'm extremely worried about the consequences that this is going to have. I would much rather a reversion of the team shared scans to only squad shared if it meant to avoid any unnecessary hamstringing of the Gal Logi's role. On the other side of the fence, I don't see much benefit for my Assault either. I'd get marginally better defense by having to fit less profile but if the plate/extender profile increase goes with that I might just be in same boat as before. The benefits of a profile dampener would have to outweigh the offset of the plates but even then shield tankers would be better off because they'd be better equipped to fit profile dampeners. The plate sig penalty is aimed at scouts, primarily, and most of these are still just ideas. But it's more like a shotgun aimed at scouts that will murder everybody else within range. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 209	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:08:00 - [39] - Quote Doesn't that subvert the reason for the change in the first place?.. so much don't nerf me bro from both logi and scout. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7031	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:18:00 - [40] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The plate sig penalty is aimed at scouts, primarily, and most of these are still just ideas. But it's more like a shotgun aimed at scouts that will murder everybody else within range. Hah. Sawed Off Signature Shotgun. I like the allegory. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3301	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:49:00 - [41] - Quote Dampening a Armor suit removes Plates Repairers Dampening a Shield suit removes Shield regulators Dampening for any other modules removes Every other low slot module that are rarely used anyways 2x Dampeners reduce Assault profile to 26 dB Gallente assault loses a potential 7-13 hp/s [Gal suits usually run at 26-30 hp/s] (if sacrificing repair for HP) Loses a potential 132 to 250 hp (if sacrificing HP for repair) Definite loss of at least 0.1 m/s and possible loss of .25-.5 m/s if compensating HP with heavy plates Would have the potential have a lower profile than shields due to only stacking very little plates (incase sig penalty) but HP and repair would be alot lower than shield suits along with lower speed, suit is incompetitive and very weak. Suggestion sbuff to armor or repairs, buff is not to 100% compensate for dampeners but to make the suit worthwile to dampen (or find a new way of fixing EWAR) Caldari assault loses a potential -2 to -3 seconds on shield delay reductions Based on some fitting constraints can lose some rep depending on what the user prioratizes EQ and Sidearm wise No loss in HP and thus > HP than a Gallente suit of equal value along with greater repairand speed Baseline the losses to a shield suit would be slightly longer delays Suggestion slight buff to regulators, if you want 100% cmpensation otherwise none (or find a new way of fixing EWAR) Protofits CK0 dampened example fit http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/8986 Protofits GK0 dampened example fit http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/8953 (made by CatMerc) supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4549	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:52:00 - [42] - Quote EWAR is only part of tge problem here Rattati, but I like the suggestions. Most of them seem to be in the right direction but my issue is that EWAR is binary. There is no chance of failure or always fail. Why was there no RNG system that inroduced a chance of failure? Second EWAR changes don't fix the fact that every suit in the gme has the ability to bugger up hit detection by doing the side to side or figure 8 strafe. I have done it in a calsent to madrugars. But that is more me exploiting the firing mechanics of tank turrets but it illustrates the ease of how a scout or assault can bugger up an assault rifle or HMG. The framerate fix has helped but part of the ewar problem is the ability of say a scout to dominate a straight fight in cqc with an assault or sentinel when they do get caught. Inertia on suits woukd fix a lot but the EWAR issue is a combination of problematic EWAR mechanics and the ability to ignore hit detection in close. Its one of the reasons why slower RoF weapons do so well in close. You don't hit as often but the target feels it. Faster firing weapons are easier to spoof except at long ranges where dispersion picks up the slack. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 510	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:53:00 - [43] - Quote this is getting silly. I think ill uninstall the game. Making changes on the fly removes any long term plans. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4549	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:54:00 - [44] - Quote I would advocate base rang correspond with the inner ring of the radar for all suits (20m). The fact that tlyou cannot natively detect even that far is baffling to me. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13040	Posted - 2014.11.06 10:56:00 - [45] - Quote Honestly Rattati, at this rate I'll just ditch my Gallente Assault. Switch to a Gal Scout or a pukes Caldari Assault. Been waiting months for my suit to be somewhat viable, and when it's getting so close you come up with this idea. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Jebus McKing lol Proto 871	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:05:00 - [46] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I would advocate base rang correspond with the inner ring of the radar for all suits (20m). Isn't that what Rattati is proposing? 15m + level 5 range amp skill = 22,5m. CCP Rattati wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Haerr wrote: introducing a new bonus to Profile Dampeners: Scanned Down Duration -xx%, [...] It will also allow for profile dampeners to have a use even when their primary function fails, reducing the feeling that the modules are useless as soon as there are high level scanners being used. What about this, Rattati? Is such a change within the limits of possibility or out of the question? If we had that we might even not have to reduce visibility duration of active scanners. I like this idea very much. really cool idea It would actually solve a lot of the binary nature of dampening VS scans. If it was implemented in the right way, with some changes to passive scans like giving passive scans some kind of a scanrate with a cooldown (like Xs scan every Xs or something like this), we needed much less suits to be 100% invisible all the time. Assault / Logi / Sentinel / Scout // @JebusMcKing
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 2517	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:16:00 - [47] - Quote 01010100011010000110010100100000011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001001000000110100101101110001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101000110100001110010011001010110000101100100001000000110100101110011001000000111010001101111011011110010000001100100011000010110110101101110001000000110100001101001011001110110100000100001 God damnit, guys, synonyms. Dual nature. Two-sided nature. Duality. Black and white. It just makes it look like you're hoping on a bandwagon when you spew "binary" 514 times in a single post, like the times when we had people talking about "TTK" as if they knew what it really meant. Wish I could say something on-topic, but I don't play enough anymore to contribute anything more meaningful without making a fool of myself. > Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7033	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:21:00 - [48] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: 01010100011010000110010100100000011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001001000000110100101101110001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101000110100001110010011001010110000101100100001000000110100101110011001000000111010001101111011011110010000001100100011000010110110101101110001000000110100001101001011001110110100000100001 God damnit, guys, synonyms. Dual nature. Two-sided nature. Duality. Black and white. It just makes it look like you're hoping on a bandwagon when you spew "binary" 514 times in a single post, like the times when we had people talking about "TTK" as if they knew what it really meant. Wish I could say something on-topic, but I don't play enough anymore to contribute anything more meaningful without making a fool of myself. S'the truth though. EWAR -IS- Binary, you are either scanned or you're not scanned. The one system in Dust 514 we absolutely need to have some level of uncertainty is the one system that lacks it. Unfortunate as it may be and as much as I like to argue with him (I swear I'm going to reimburse him in beer if he goes to Fanfest) CCP Rattati is right in that it can't be changed and we need to look for ways to make the system practical with that constriction. Though, that being said, I've a conflict of interest because I only know what it's like to be on my side of the EWAR game and that's scanning people down. Can't take back what I've already said though. I can just apologize for it, STFU, and move on. Legion Transparency Me and My Girl
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4550	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:28:00 - [49] - Quote If I meet rattati the first beer I buy him will be for his work. The second beer will be for putting up with my sh*t with good humor. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 174	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:29:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Good change... I can't tell you how many times I've caught a scout and we end up playing ring around the rosie with a wall between us- it's nearly impossible to win because they know which direction I'm facing. Not to mention, this limits a scout's ability to take on groups of enemies significantly in my opinion... CCP Rattati wrote: Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) I feel that the logi should have better signature profile and the assault should have better precision. The logi should focus on survivability a bit more than the assault focuses on offense. That's just me though and my opinion on this is not very thought out. CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Really good idea... I am curious if others think shield energizers/rechargers and armor repairers should add signature too? I think this would help making protosuits have a bit more of a drawback. It'd help enhance the shield tanking experience by making them a bit better at flanking with their mobility and high regen- now they can have a bit more of a lower signature too. This could also finally bring calscouts and calscouts in line since both can dampen and be pretty tough to find and remain tanky. I think I like this idea a lot. CCP Rattati wrote: Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC I think I'd rather have STD "spylinks" to work reasonably well within "STD gear only environment"... Make the STD tier one pick up STD heavies, and undampened STD logis and STD assaults... Spamming proto spylinks just to pick up scouts seems too expensive and vet exclusive to me. Maybe ADV and PRO suits can have slightly lower profile signatures to compensate for the plate/extender stacking, but not nearly enough to offset the penalty completely? Maybe then prototype assaults can be on a bit more even ground with prototype scouts? Just tossing ideas around. CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Agreed... No reason for that at all...

Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 174	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:30:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others Not gonna bother working out math on this, but I think making e-war capabilities redundant is a great trick to balancing the game. It lets more players get on even ground with the scouts. Not so sure about letting heavies have that range though. CCP Rattati wrote: STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Only problem I see here is that many people would say that proximities aren't even that good to begin with. I personally love them, but I tend to lay STD and ADV proxies together in a death trap for tanks in choke points. I'd hate it if my trap failed only because the STD proxies gave away the ADV proxies. Maybe increase the maximum proxies active at one time? That way, I can equip two ADV proxies in a fit. My friends' low opinion of them makes me think they need a buff anyways. Otherwise, this is a solid idea in my opinion. CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed. Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener" Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there. I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. I agree with this. Let's put the "war" back in e-war.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4553	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:30:00 - [52] - Quote Binary means two options you twit. The progamming language is called binary because it has only two options. Yes or no. On or off. Always scanned/always evade is a binary option. Quit trying to look smarter than everyone else. You're failing at it miserably. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
CamClarke KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 226	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:32:00 - [53] - Quote My only concern is that a nerf to Active Scanners will be meaningless with your "Spy Uplinks". One or the other will definitely be a better choice if Active Scanners are nerfed, and will further marginalize the Gallente Logistics. The Gal Logi is FINALLY considered a real asset, and you're talking about nerfing them after only two days of 1.9. I'd like to see Active Scanners be the offensive scanner and your proposed Spy Uplinks the defensive scanner, as one is mobile due to being carried and the other is immobile due to being a deployable. In order for Active Scanners to be/remain the offensive scanner, literally nothing needs to be done to them. No nerfs. No buffs (except perhaps the angle slightly). If you still want to nerf Active Scanners and their range while developing your Spy Uplinks, then in order for them to remain relevant their angle needs to be widened drastically. If not, it'll just be more worthwhile to dispose of a single Spy Uplink and get 360 degrees. Everything else in your list? Handled right, could be just what we need. I'd particularly like to see Profile go up relative to Plates/Extenders equipped. It could even potentially lead to the development of EWAR-specialized modules, similar to how armor movement penalties led to the Reactive and Ferroscale plates.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3301	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:33:00 - [54] - Quote Is there a possibility of adding in a "UAV" basically get 1000 war points and the field is pulse scanned for 10 seconds. And a global ECM jammer, which jams the sensors of enemies for 10 seconds (also negates the uav) at 1500 wp. The more ways we add to EWAR that is not tied to the drop suits themselves the easier it will be to find a proper way to balance them. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 438	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:43:00 - [55] - Quote There have already been massive rebalancing to the EWAR before, and now I think it is in a quite good place. Not perfect, but that's why we have these discussions, right? My 2 ISK: - Keep all current suite and module bonuses as is (range, precision etc). They are fairly balanced IMHO - Make a full rebalance pass on the active scanner (only), and make them fit in to the current META. -> Remove the directional indicators for all scanners with team share. -> Keep Duvolle Focus as is today, squad sharing only. -> Make each scanner have a dedicated purpose within the two fields (team vs squad) - Make the profile of the user increase when actively scanning, like a sonar. You see everything, but you will be more easily detected yourself. There could also be special "Black-Ops" scanners without penelty to profile, but with other downsides. - Introduce new modules and support to spice things up (spy uplinks, EMP OB etc) - Introduce new skills for the new modules. TDLR: I think we have a good foundation right now, and I would hate to do another full balance pass (on everything). Take it slow and easy, introducing new things to spice things up instead of rebuilding what is already there. The current scanner situation have to be addressed, but it should be the scanners that are adjusted.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1339	Posted - 2014.11.06 11:46:00 - [56] - Quote I don't know if this is really the best place for this but I really don't understand why the cloak was changed to affect the Ewar scouts. Perhaps I missed something on the forums. A proper Ewar scout has reduced speed / stealth / ehp just by adding the modules. Therefore they are much easier targets in any circumstance. I don't see what is wrong with that. I for one rarely benefited personally for helping my team that way. Then again I hate shotguns so it was almost impossible to engage anything 1 v 1 and live through it. I thought the problem was the tanked scouts with shotguns and not ewar specifically? "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 61	Posted - 2014.11.06 12:29:00 - [57] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Honestly Rattati, at this rate I'll just ditch my Gallente Assault. Switch to a Gal Scout or a pukes Caldari Assault. Been waiting months for my suit to be somewhat viable, and when it's getting so close you come up with this idea. Funny, I was considering switching from my Caldari assault to a Gallente Assault. This ewar game is tricky.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13045	Posted - 2014.11.06 12:58:00 - [58] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Honestly Rattati, at this rate I'll just ditch my Gallente Assault. Switch to a Gal Scout or a pukes Caldari Assault. Been waiting months for my suit to be somewhat viable, and when it's getting so close you come up with this idea. Funny, I was considering switching from my Caldari assault to a Gallente Assault. This ewar game is tricky. How do you figure? My Gallente Assault with two damps losses a HUGE amount of its combat potential, while my Caldari Assault losses a bit of speed and has an extra second of delay. Whoop de fucking do. Gallente being armor based and damps taking low slots is a killer. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4555	Posted - 2014.11.06 12:59:00 - [59] - Quote And both will get chumped by the RE dropped by the scout. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13045	Posted - 2014.11.06 13:46:00 - [60] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And both will get chumped by the RE dropped by the scout. Well, that's a given :P Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++

Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1809	Posted - 2014.11.06 14:00:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (-5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (-5) [Feedback] EWAR Ideas - Scan Table Scan Profiles and Scan Precisions for suits are found on the "input" sheet. How to play around with the numbers. "File" -> "Make a Copy..." Type in a name and press "OK" Since the tables rely on a script for sorting and colouring you will have to start the script and allow it to run. "Tools" -> "Script Editor..." "Run" "Continue" "Accept" After you have done this the tables will automatically be updated, sorted, and coloured when you change the value in one of the cells with black background colour in the input sheet. Once you have changed a value wait for the loading bar in the top right of the window to finish before you change an other value.
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 80	Posted - 2014.11.06 14:07:00 - [62] - Quote well, i liked an earlier suggestion of passives are minimap only, and actives get chevrons, unless you "tag" an enemy by looking at them visually. but some amount of non binary-ness would be nice precision = profile 50% chance, for each 1 point one way or the other +- 3% (multiplicative) respectively profileprecisiondetect % 301285.12165306 301382.64238161 301480.23532195 301577.89837083 301675.62948624 301773.42668567 301871.28804434 301969.21169354 302067.19581897 302165.23865919 302263.33850407 302361.49369327 302459.70261483 302557.96370372 302656.2754405 302754.63635 302853.045 302951.5 303050 293048.54368932 283047.12979546 273045.75708297 263044.4243524 253043.13043922 243041.87421283 233040.65457557 223039.47046172 213038.32083662 203037.20469574 193036.12106383 183035.06899401 173034.047567 163033.05589029 153032.09309737 143031.15834696 133030.25082229 123029.36973038
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4558	Posted - 2014.11.06 14:17:00 - [63] - Quote Christ on a crutch man fix your table or spreadsheet dat shizz. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3041	Posted - 2014.11.06 14:22:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field & Reduce Scan duration across the board Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad on I like the rest, i've divided answer to be more clear. Then i would say that rep on non squad members should not give WP, i do not agree, but if you like this way, please at least increase WP reward for intel. I agree, but we should be able to scan more frequently, 40 seconds are an eternity in a FPS, you can spawn and die 3 times. I don't see the point of this, unless you are planning to give the same slot layout progression of assaults to logis. 4 November 2014 - the most funny day in Dust514
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 48	Posted - 2014.11.06 15:31:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Maybe - Remove all directional information about the enemy (bad idea to buff Heavies) Good - Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel Good - Sentinel has better precision (+5) Very Good - Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi Meh - Logi has better precision (would recommend range buff instead) Meh - Extenders and Plates add signature profile (yes to plates; no to extenders/ferro/reactive) Good - Spy uplinks Meh - Reduce range of Active Scanners by 50% (200m Creodron Flux is the problem). * Bad - Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15 Good - STD Active scanner only sees STD EQ Meh - Reduce Scan duration across the board Meh - Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only (200m Creodron Flux is the problem). Good - Orbital EMP strikes * Detailed explanation: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2443076#post2443076
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 438	Posted - 2014.11.06 16:04:00 - [66] - Quote Actually, I just thought of some cool ideas: "Spy Uplinks" Make them as infantry proximity mines instead of permanent scanners. Instead of blowing up, the mines (when triggered) light up on radar. That way you will only get information somebody is close, but don't have any information about number and exact location. (Perfect to set as guards for flanking manoeuvres) Multiple scanning radius I don't know if it is feasible or not, but if you could add multiple scanning profiles on objects you can achieve a "pseudo" falloff effect. I know you added something for vehicles in 1.9 which made them more visible. The idea is that instead of ON/OFF based on profile strength and a fixed radius, you have three (or more) separate settings. This would enable the profile to artificially drop of based on distance, still using the current system. I.e Profile 1: 45db - 10m radius Profile 2: 35db - 20m radius Profile 3: 20db - 30m radius The same could be made for active scanners, where multiple values can reduce the accuracy based on distance. Note: * the above is just an example and I pulled the values from the blue.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4565	Posted - 2014.11.06 16:22:00 - [67] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: things * Detailed explanations for the bads: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2443076#post2443076 I thoroughly disagree with you on every single thing you flag "bad" EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 317	Posted - 2014.11.06 16:22:00 - [68] - Quote The issue with ewar was scouts are invisible, and to catch them you needed a gal logi with proto scans. The answer to invisible suits is to make suits harder to detect? Killin the gal logi bonus with the nerfs, also showing a poor understanding of how scans work. - Cutting range of active scanners by 50% :All scannsers have 100 meter range except the creodorn flux (200m). The question you should ask before you nerf is Whats is the usefulness of a 50m range scanner? Why should i bother to fit one - Reduce duration: duration is already short enough to have to fit multplie scanners on the same suit to have a decent veiw of the battle field. 3 seconds scans for every 30 seconds cooldown is poorly though out. -Giving all frames the same passive range: Giving heavies the same passive scans as scouts, assaults and logis , doesn't look good at all on paper. Putting two range amplifiers on my heavy suit, scan all before me and still have 1000 + ehp, nobody sees an issue with that? - Invisible proxy mines? Will you be buffing the vehicle scanner to compensate? Just asking hard questions. Going down this route, give the gal logi some other bonus, his equipment is about to get wrecked. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 52	Posted - 2014.11.06 16:55:00 - [69] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: things * Detailed explanations for the bads: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2443076#post2443076 I thoroughly disagree with you on every single thing you flag "bad" No doubt, and I am sure many other Heavies share in your opinion. Do you think your kind would still dominate PC if all your EWAR dreams came true?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5574	Posted - 2014.11.06 17:54:00 - [70] - Quote Why are you buffing heavies with all these changes? You just showed us data that they are PC monsters, with only the Gal scout being a real problem. There are 3 other scout races and other scout roles. Spy uplinks would just be a return to Omniscient Installations that negated any stealth hackers. And since you can't take passive scans away from heavies that don't have to sacrifice for it, why would you give them some more ability to see, and add on top of that a lack of directional arrow so no one knows which way to sneak up on them. What happened to making EWAR bonuses module based instead of passive? What happened to doubling speed penalty on scouts for armor plates? Those were reasonable changes. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 832	Posted - 2014.11.06 18:03:00 - [71] - Quote I strongly disagree with putting scans at a base value of 15 m for all frames. In general I'm strongly against the proliferation of ewar. The wallhack diminishes the amount of player skill required and puts more emphasis on knowing your scan-tables. If you think scout ewar is too strong I'd suggest keeping it at a default 10 m for non-scouts and reverting it to pre-1.8 15 m for scouts. Alternatively I'd trade you 15 m default scan range for a 50% nerf to all other scan range bonuses (modules, range amplification and CalScout suit command). The gist of it is that less passive scanning is straight up better for everyone in the game, even scouts.
Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1813	Posted - 2014.11.06 18:15:00 - [72] - Quote I've updated the Scan Table for Hotfix Echo, added all the different suits to both the dampening and scanning sides. The old link is now dead. Edit: Scan Table - Hotfix Echo
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18749	Posted - 2014.11.06 18:43:00 - [73] - Quote Some of these are decent ideas. Removing the directional arrow from tacnet = wonderful. That's an excellent change and it means that sneaking up on someone is not necessarily completely trivial when you have them scanned. As for some of the other things, though... I have concerns. Quote: Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only Do active scanners really need such a massive amount of nerfing? They've far from what they were. They've only gone back into use because now they're visible to the whole team. Reducing the range of scanners by 50% immediately means that an EWAR scout becomes far more valuable, even if you nerf their precision and scan range. Unless you use a flux scanner (which has -significant- tradeoffs - it is painful to use that scan angle) you've got a trivial range below the optimal of many weapons. Even if you nerf scout scan range down to 15m, by sticking a couple of range amplifiers on a scout you get: + A longer scan range + 360 degree scans - That is six times the radius of active scanners and means that you don't need any clue where your opponent is, it will light them up regardless + Permascans, not 2 second lightups with a 15 second cooldown + No need to equip the scanner to use it, you can have your weapon out + No revealing 'You have been scanned' message informing the target that they've been scanned. Active scanners are not nearly so powerful that they require such a heavy handed approach. With the team vision change they've just become useful enough to warrant using. Before that, they were not viable. Does that one change mean that they need to be nerfed further to the point of uselessness? Reverse that change, if you must, but such a comprehensive and heavy set of nerfs will completely destroy the scanner. As for the focused scanner... 5 second duration. >40 second cooldown< 40 second cooldown is insane. The precision bonus you get over normal scanners for using it is already easily paid for by that trade-off. It cannot possibly require nerfing for being too powerful. The focused scanner occupies a particular niche of uselessness - It does not need to be used for the majority of targets and is worse at scanning the unwashed masses, but targets that might require its use are likely to be dampening and any scout that dampens can evade even a proto Gallogi with a focused scanner. Even though it's a mere 5 second visibility window with a painfully narrow angle every 40 seconds, it cannot scan any target that does not wish to be seen. It doesn't need more tradeoffs for what it is. Frankly, I think it should be buffed, rather than nerfed. Take it back to squad sight only if you must, but give it a higher precision so that it can scan targets that aren't thoroughly dampened. The proliferation of focused scanners is vastly over-exaggerated - I can count the number of times that I have been scanned in a dampened fit on one hand. I am concerned for the role of the Gallogi with this set of changes. What is it, exactly? As a scan platform? A scout will be far superior even if you nerf the scout scans heavily. Quote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile This is quite a significant change. What kind of profile changes would we be talking about? I have quite a few concerns about this but if it depends on the numbers we're talking about. Will it bring a tanked assault into the zone where they can be passively scanned by heavies? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1820	Posted - 2014.11.06 18:54:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile How about giving Temporary (~3 sec) Scan Profile penalties to firing weapons and/or equipment?
Cass Caul 1457	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:07:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam So let's focus on what can be done. Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow [1] Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) [2] Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile [3] Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC [4] Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field [5] Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others [6] STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. [7] Reduce Scan duration across the board [8] Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated [9] Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed. Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener" Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there. I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. This thread has some traction. So I'll do what I usually do and make a preliminary post based on the OP then read the thread and make a second revised post. [1] Scan spam is a thing. Having a Scout in a squad to run passives is a thing. Sentinels are CQC gods, every map is tailored for CQC which means every Sentinel will gain added protection from the Assassin-Scouts that already need that level of intel and can still lose to the massive tank Sentinels have. . . There seems to be some disconnect going on. Why are Sentinels and Scouts doing so well? Have you tries thinking that it was because they are both using weapons that excel in close quarters and every map has enclosed null cannon consoles. You want to nerf these two because their performing well within their specialized area [2] Logi: 45 precision, 50 profile; Assault: 50 precision, 45 Profile. Is that what you mean? the +/- sign are a bit confusing as it looks like you want Logi to go back to 50/50 from pre-1.8, I support that change if I got the numbers correct. [3] This really isn't a good thing. At all. If you want a Medium Frame to engage in EWAR, which I personally do, adding profile penalties to HP mods really only inhibits this from ever happening. It's also an unnecessary "** you" to Scouts that already sacrifice 2 modules to be dampened. We've gone over how the Min-Scout needs that third low slot to be effective, you're taking that away from them because they need to fit shields. [4] They shouldn't be as good as active scanners. Numbers like 50 dB (STD), 40 dB (ADV) and 30 dB (PRO) seem fine. [5] 100m is not "ultra range." It's the maximum distance your tacnet radar extends to. I do not like the idea of reducing the SQFT of active scanner. [6] This is probably the worst part here. If Range Amps are only effective on Scout right now and not effective enough on the other suits. . . reducing scan range is just going to make it **/worthless for scouts too. Please deffer to the thread "The Barbershop" as to why Scouts faught so hard to get back their original 25m base range. Scouts have 20m now. Go back to the Chromosome Values of 20m for everyone, 25m for Scouts. There. Done. Range Amps provide meaningful distance for everyone again. [7] Are Proximity mines every going to get a buff? Because with the stupid beeping and low damage they're really only effective when friendly fire is on so that you can use a single proxi to set off regular remote explosives. not a comment on this idea at all, just need to keep pushing for proxi mines to get a buff they've needed for a long time. [8] Unless you reduce cooldown by an equal percentage. . . then take another 5 seconds off of cool down active scanners aren't that good. This would be an unnecessary nerf that only makes sense because shared team and shared squad Active Scanners have the same precision. Nerf precision on shared team scanners. [9] Please adjust Gal-Logi precision bonus to scan angle bonus. put the focused back at base 15. and see how things run when anyone can use a scanner again in PC. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 292	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:10:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam So let's focus on what can be done. Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed. Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener" Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there. I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. I agree with most of these minus a few. 1. Scan duration. Active scanners are inferior to passives. The qq comes from " you have been scanned". Passives are always on, cheaper to fit, but do not display such a message. Combined with the scout suit the passives also create a situation were all suits can be seen as well as hide from vs active of seeing anything but a scout minus gal logi. I advocated for the nerf for the old scans and felt that trade off off directional scanning combined with the vulnerability of using it and still giving the scout a pass was a decent balance. If the duration is shortened and your other ewar changes go through, than more people will skill and you passives without the message being displayed. This will generate little to no qq, but is worse for the game. 2. Spy uplink. I like this idea but due to equipment spam would like to see it or any other deployable put on hold until you fix the spam issue that has been discussed. At the end of the day I am happy with the direction that this game is headed, and am thankful of CCP turning this game around from where it was. It is a breath of fresh air that they are now listening to players with welll thought out ideas and are addressing long term concerns. If I had to offer CCP one bit of advice it would be to think outside of the box more and try to see how any purposed change will effect the game as a whole and weigh it vs the players concerns. Don't just bend over and submit to the qq if the solution hurts the game on the whole and exasperates the concerns of the players that were against it. Sage /thread
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 839	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:11:00 - [77] - Quote I like all these proposed changes except adding a signature profile penalty to extenders/plates. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1563	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:32:00 - [78] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: 01010100011010000110010100100000011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001001000000110100101101110001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101000110100001110010011001010110000101100100001000000110100101110011001000000111010001101111011011110010000001100100011000010110110101101110001000000110100001101001011001110110100000100001 God damnit, guys, synonyms. Dual nature. Two-sided nature. Duality. Black and white. It just makes it look like you're hoping on a bandwagon when you spew "binary" 514 times in a single post, like the times when we had people talking about "TTK" as if they knew what it really meant. Wish I could say something on-topic, but I don't play enough anymore to contribute anything more meaningful without making a fool of myself. Do you understand what binary is? It's zeros and ones because they represent a state of something being either off or on. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1875	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:42:00 - [79] - Quote Give Ewar mods drawbacks rather than HP mods. - Precision mods increase profile - Damp mods reduce range - Range mods reduce precision You could possibly make these mods effect active scanners as well. So when using them, if you have a range amp you get more range on your scanner). My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7447	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:08:00 - [80] - Quote My opinion on the new eWAR ideas. Active Scanners should work like Sonar Pings. Decent range, Decent Cooldown and would be used to "Ping" areas to check for people. People would never be lit up for long. Maximum of 2 to 3 seconds. They would be used to ask "Is there anyone guarding this point?" rather than "Show me where everyone is at". You would walk up to a corner and think "This is a great place for an ambush". Pull out scanner and PING, there's three guys around the corner. Lets you know not to turn the corner. Or to see if people are on the objective. Active Scanners are made to temporarily "scout" objectives without putting someone in harms way. They should be difficult to dodge, except for scouts. Scouts once again need to be able to dodge practically all scans (Save focused) with a good damped fit. Scanned scouts are typically dead scouts, and we don't want that. Spy Uplinks should then be a scout tool. Scouts really have no role right now except for "dodging scans". We need a reconnaissance role. We would damp, and go behind enemy lines to lace the area with these, lighting up people in the city with our scans. They would be team-shared. They must also NOT be able to scan scouts running 2 or more damps and a cloak. Otherwise, these would have no real counter (We all remember omniscient installations). Set up by scouts, and removed by scouts. Maintaining eWAR superiority should be the SCOUTS job. With these changes, this is what I want to see a typical scout set up be: Min Scout MK.0 1x Complex Shield 2x Complex Precision Light Weapon Sidearm Grenade (Flux FTW) Proto Cloak Proto Motion Detector (My new name for the spy link) 2x Damps 1x Range or Utility Module (Speed, Codebreakers etc.) Note how it is made for eWAR, with Scans made to detect other frames (Which will all be damping somewhat with the Motion Detectors) and navigate around them. Weapons are used to remove targets that HAVE to be removed (One guy camping a point, running across another scout etc.). Now how would these work together? Think of it this way. You have a squad of 6: 3 Assaults, 1 Heavy, 1 Logi, 1 Scout. A typical squad, made to assault an objective. We approach the objective, halting behind cover at about 75m out (Well outside of passive scan range for most scouts). Logi puts down a scan, revealing that there are roughly 5 targets inside, possibly a scout as well, due to the margin of error. Squad hangs back a bit, scout moves up. He uses his cloak to get in on the objective and throws a flux onto the enemies motion detector. Squad moves in, ready to assault. Scout notices that another motion detector has been thrown down, and goes to remove that as well. As long as he removes the detectors, the enemy squad is blind, unless the other scout de-cloaks. The scouts are fighting for eWAR superiority. Meanwhile, the squad below is engaging. The logi is smart, and running some range amps and a single precision to help out his heavy, while the assaults go in and try to seperate the enemy squad. The enemy scout de-cloaks to try and help his team, but is quickly killed by our scout (who is very good at his job). With the other scout eliminated, he plops down his own motion detector, and walks about removing uplinks and equipment while he can. Do you see how I want eWAR to work? How scouts would be fighting their own battles: Fighting for eWAR control, rather than slaying everyone. This is what I want. What do you think Rattati? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.

Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 939	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:15:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile This may be an attempt to even the playing field with Scouts, and while it may help, all you are really doing is hurting Logis even further. Don't the tiers of Scan Profile go up as you gain HP via your Dropsuit? What good is Precision when you are penalized for trying to add health to a slow, weak, and less battle capable suit? Is it so we can know when there is danger, and try and run away? Ever try running away in a Logi suit from the rifles that kill from 80+ meters? I can just get under vehicle scans with lvl 5 Dampening and 1 Complex Damp. Now you are telling me that because I have some shields to help buff my whopping 90 starting shields, that I won't even be able to hide from a vehicle scanner? Yo no se.... ( . )( . )
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 55	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:21:00 - [82] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Give Ewar mods drawbacks rather than HP mods. - Precision mods increase profile - Damp mods reduce range - Range mods reduce precision Have a look and see how HP is King. How would nerfing EWAR modules possibly shake up the meta, be it Assault Lite or otherwise?
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 159	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:27:00 - [83] - Quote Made a suggestion here Basically a low slot module "Scan Intensifier" that further increases precision but reduces range. This would be balanced so that a scout using these and precision enhancers could detect any scout regardless of dampening, but at shorter ranges (~10-20m, or whatever). This would counter the whole shotgun/damp/cloak exploitation and have the happy secondary effect of making the battlefield less scanny for medium/heavy frames (since these scans would be closer range). Also I think active scanner base precision should be reduced and their precision be affected by modules. This makes it so they would be able to stack precision/intensifiers, so they 1. they can detect a fully damped scout, and 2. so that a single piece of equipment cant counter any amount of dampeners. Also tightening up the dampening/precision numbers for each suit type so that dampeners and precision can be used by non-scout frames with some hope of success. I'd prefer to have a scan gradient so that scanning gets a little fuzzy and can be rebalanced so that full precision fits can still detect full damp fits at close range, but since thats out of the question, I'd love to see the above implemented.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 147	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:41:00 - [84] - Quote Rattati, I am generally in favor of all you have proposed except the following: Quote: Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Please consider not doing this one. In an FPS we can't "peek" around cover, there is no way to know without taking a step out from behind cover whether my target is facing away from me or not. This is purely from the pov of a minmatar scout using Nova Knives. If I could peek out behind cover to actually look at my target I wouldn't need directionals on tacnet, but this is just about impossible. Other suggestion: I absolutely love the idea of plates and shields adding to signature, this works for shield extenders in Eve (but not armor). It could work for both in Dust given it often has little quirky differences.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 212	Posted - 2014.11.06 21:15:00 - [85] - Quote 1. Make the cone scanners project static and maybe increase the width at the base before you make any other changes to them. This will increase the ease of use for scanners decrease its effect right now we are able to rotate 180 is you guys still need to change them after you can make the scans broader a good give and take. 2. Some people reference scouts as the primary reason for the change I would think it was to bring scanners back into the game. Time to kill is the issue with scouts if you being stocked your not going to scan a scout and even if you did if he has a shotgun it won't matter. I mean scanners do make is slightly more difficult for scouts, but if you want to balance them you have to reduce there Time To Kill so scouts can not drop someone before they can react. Increasing the time before the engagement is worthless what must be increased is the time between the first shot and death of target... impossible in a shared weapon pool including the sg and plc. 3. Directional icon should be removed it is so gross how scouts have the ability to prefire on targets under cover. 4. The suit changes are a good idea although I think it might be a good idea to go a further with assault/logi and commando suits precision. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Cyrus Grevare WarRavens Capital Punishment. 365	Posted - 2014.11.06 21:31:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex Good to know, though these two are the real culprits a better implementation and more balanced EWar can't be achieved, all possible solutions will be just an approximation of what we really want. CCP Rattati wrote: Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Keep it for active scans, remove from passive scans. As is passive scans are too powerful, don't remove what can be a good tool if applied correctly. CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Sounds good, medium frames and up can easily get scanned as is, this will help curve light assaults. If as some have mentioned having more penalties to armor plates is a concern both mechanically and lore-wise, you could apply it only to shield extenders exchanging it for the current penalty to recharge delay. CCP Rattati wrote: Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others Yes, every module should be usable for all suits, though I like innate suit stat variety. An alternative could be the module offering a fixed bonus like armor plates instead of a percentage increase. Something like +10m@STD, +15m@ADV and +20m@PRO CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only Can't offer much input on this, but scanning range is better if it's beyond usual confrontation range (80+) active scanning @ CQC range sounds like a liability. Active scans don't really seem too powerful, what is annoying though is the permascan message, removing that could help. If getting scanned is the issue dampening up sounds good. Heavies won't dampen, scouts can do easily, if tweaked, assaults can if needed, or opt to stay in squad, ultimately having a choice sounds good. Team shared scans is what is likely sparking an issue, maybe splitting scanners to team or squad based can help, team scanners being more resource intensive or shorter duration then a more focused squad based alternative. Every other point sounds awesome to me. www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2347	Posted - 2014.11.06 21:46:00 - [87] - Quote Seriously lets just remove all forms of scans in this game. Remove passive scans, remove active scanners too. Give the Gallente logi a new role. Then we can think about scans in terms of a squad assist 'call in' that costs WP just like an orbital. The whole scanning mechanism in this game is just too much. Everyone should be able to play stealthy if they want to. Scans and passive scans are way too easy and give way too much intelligence. Remove all scan! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 832	Posted - 2014.11.06 21:53:00 - [88] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Remove all scan! To me that would be the ultima ratio if nothing else works. I'd prefer trying to limit all scans either in duration, cooldown or range. Both passive and active scans. The core of the game is a shooter. Not a scanning table.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 149	Posted - 2014.11.06 22:31:00 - [89] - Quote The less attractive you make e-war to scouts, the more scouts are going to brick tank. The less attractive you make brick tanking to scouts, the more scouts are going to fit e-war. It has to remain attractive for a scout to field his/her suit with ewar, and remain paper thin. The opposite should be the rarity for players who just want to go against the grain. I think it would be best if medium and heavy frames had a chance to scan scouts. IDEA You created a secondary scanning system for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around.
Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1831	Posted - 2014.11.06 22:39:00 - [90] - Quote Would any CPM member care to share their thoughts on EWAR?

Iron Toast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.11.06 22:54:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC These seem super powerful, what if just the spy uplink flashed its position when triggered. Then different variants with different detection ranges and precision could be deployed. Maybe total profile within range would trigger, so 1 scout might be able to sneak up but 2 could set it off.
Iron Toast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:58:00 - [92] - Quote For reducing the binary nature of EWAR: 1) Add an active profile dampener (a cloak but without the invisibility). It could be a high slot or equipment to make different trade-offs. For maxed versions: active damping > active scanning > passive damping > passive scanning However, the active / cooldown times of the active versions can be used to balance. Could have variations between short duration / short cooldown and long duration / very long cooldown. Also could have versions that set the profile rather than improving it to allow medium and heavy (maybe only commando if equipment slot) suits a means to temporarily damp and flank. 2) Add decoys - like spy uplinks, but show up as a red on tacnet when scanned. Variations could have a constant direction or rotate the directional arrow.
Grimmiers 695	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:37:00 - [93] - Quote is it possible to increase the profile based on movement like sprinting and crouching?
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 174	Posted - 2014.11.07 01:37:00 - [94] - Quote You forgot to add something. Easy to do: Take out everything and let people use their eyes. Assaulting people since way too long..
Cass Caul 1462	Posted - 2014.11.07 04:32:00 - [95] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: You forgot to add something. Easy to do: Take out everything and let people use their eyes. personal awareness is OP bro. Too OP, in fact. This is why scans should have priority over dampening. I don't want to have to use my eyes to find a Assault, it's bad enough letting those bastards in a scout suit run around without a giant glowing arrow over their heads at all times. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
deadpool lifetone D3ATH CARD RUST415 15	Posted - 2014.11.07 04:56:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam So let's focus on what can be done. Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed. Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener" Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there. I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. Outstanding lol was getting sick and tired of adapting suits every other week to the flavor of the month. Uplinks, Nanohives , Remotes, Proxys etc more useful again depending on the level. And yes the Ewars have begun. Build suits properly per role for maximum affect. Sounds more balanced now. ( could either hurt the squad or help it ) . Enhanced precision won't be able to pick up complex dampening as much as before due to the possible range changes of suit scans being cut short. - good stuff CCP 07
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 414	Posted - 2014.11.07 05:50:00 - [97] - Quote What if the amount you fail to beat the scan determines how long you show up on a scan? So if the precision beats your profile by 1dB you show up for 4 seconds whereas if the precision beats you by 20 dB you show up for 20 seconds. Obviously numbers were just made up. Something like this would help reduce the binary nature of the scanning EWAR mechanics because even if adding a damp wouldn't get you under some precision it would reduce the time you show up for. Alas this doesn't really help with passive scans. Although maybe it could if passive scans were like a sonar pulse that happened every x seconds (lots of opportunities for variety in various stats there) you could employ the same mechanics. That's probably a very non-trivial change though.
Mark Crusader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2014.11.07 06:04:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Could do Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile I've thought of a similar idea before, with a slightly different approach. Shield Extenders increase signature profile Armor Plates increase scan precision (nerf) The reasoning is that the counter modules for each of these penalties go in the opposite slots. After the change, shield and armor tanking will be no worse off than the other. It also compliments common play-styles. Heavily armor tanked fits are ready to stand their ground when the enemy comes up on them, and more mobile shield tanked fits already have a means to evade enemies pursuing them. Lore wise, thick armor plating interferes with signal detection, while additional shields create extra EM noise that can be more easily detected.
The Eristic Dust 90210 655	Posted - 2014.11.07 06:19:00 - [99] - Quote Profile penalty on extenders (on lights, at least, or most dramatic on lights) should've been a thing from the start. I'd prefer a bigger speed hit on vanilla plates (again, most significant on lights, least on heavies) over profile on those because it's somewhat more logical (though I could see the reasoning) and "lore"-appropriate, but it'd do. Anything to discourage bricked out scouts. Like most of the proposed suit tweaks. Undecided on active scanner changes. A reasonable (id est, probably not 50%!) range nerf would be ok for some, but could make some useless, especially with how large most of our maps are. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
deadpool lifetone D3ATH CARD RUST415 15	Posted - 2014.11.07 06:54:00 - [100] - Quote Iron Toast wrote: 2) Add decoys - like spy uplinks, but show up as a red on tacnet when scanned. Variations could have a constant direction or rotate the directional arrow. Agree sounds great. Would serve it's purpose greatly if used properly

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4449	Posted - 2014.11.07 06:54:00 - [101] - Quote Ewar math gives me a terrible headache so Im not touching it other than to say your concepts are sound but the numbers may need some work. Some general thoughts: - I think you are nerfing scanners a little too hard - Why not some SP for team Intel asssists. Not as much as squad, of course, but I don't see why we can't give +5 for a team assist, you are making a contribution after all - Finally, getting rid of the ultimate wall hax of the directional arrow. So long overdue... - if memory serves, shield extenders originally were supposed to make your profile worse and that was supposed to be the big equalizer back when shield tanking was dominant. Never happened though. Regardless, I think this should only apply to light suits. There has got to be SOME drawback to brick tanking them. It defies logic that a light battle suit framework designed for speed and agility would be able to support additional armor plating in the same manner as a heavy frame, which is designed specifically for it. - in terms of the uplinks, I guess that's another discussion, but I don't know that I like the idea of the scan profile being directly related to the mets level. It makes non-proto equipment obsolete. Why not make a variant at ADV that has some other drawback (fewer and/or slower spawns), but is stealthier? Also, IMO the Amarr logi bonus should be extended to include a bonus to profile but that's just me. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Mark Crusader Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2014.11.07 07:18:00 - [102] - Quote While we are looking at introducing "Spylinks", why not consider an entire set of racial EWAR equipment. This would go a long ways towards diversifying gameplay. (C) Signature Enhancer - increases the signature profile of enemies within range making them easier to detect (A) Scanner Beacon - pulses active scans every few seconds revealing nearby enemies (G) Scan Dampener - decreases the signature profile of friendlies within range, hiding them from enemy scans (M) Decoy Emitter - causes random red-blips to momentarily appear on enemy minimaps With a full set of place-able EWAR equipment, fitting bonuses can be assigned to racial dropsuits. Lore buffs might notice that the proposed equipment counters and complements each other along racial lines ;)
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 178	Posted - 2014.11.07 09:26:00 - [103] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: You forgot to add something. Easy to do: Take out everything and let people use their eyes. personal awareness is OP bro. Too OP, in fact. This is why scans should have priority over dampening. I don't want to have to use my eyes to find a Assault, it's bad enough letting those bastards in a scout suit run around without a giant glowing arrow over their heads at all times. As long as they dont see you glowing it's not a big deal ^^ Their hitbox will have to be fixed and scouts problem will be solved! The only time someone should appear on your radar is when he shoots his weapon, or when it's a vehicle. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Juno Tristan Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 148	Posted - 2014.11.07 09:28:00 - [104] - Quote I'm a bit late to the party but... Remove the directional indicator! It's a substantial bonus to scouts because you can choose exactly to engage, 2 enemies on radar, one is about to turn a corner in front and the other is behind facing away. You can fight the first knowing the second won't see you. Removing scans whilst cloaked has been good to nerf this, but the team scans have kind of undone it
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1564	Posted - 2014.11.07 10:26:00 - [105] - Quote Heard an interesting proposal for scouts... Currently a large part of the problem is that their scanning is always incredibly powerful... What if (just hear me out on this). We made their scanning ranges WEAKER when in their non-cloaked combat mode... and then we made their scanning STRONGER while in their cloaked mode. Say they only have 15m range while uncloaked, but when cloaked that jumps up to 50m This does a few things - It incentivises not only fitting cloaks but fitting better cloaks so you have a longer amount of time to choose your fights, in addition it tones down some of the issues that we're currently seeing where scouts really just get too much of practically everything that is useful. If they want to gather intel and lurk around their squad, they have to be invisible and unable to use their weapon. If they want to fight they have to give up their OP Godmode wallhack scans. Just need to jump up their delay before being able to fire so that transition between 'modes' isn't an instant process and make the decloaking sound a bit louder. Essentially it means that when they go into 'combat' mode, they're just really, really fragile suits with low profile, when they go into cloaked mode they get to do their ewar stuff but they give up being able to fight. I think we may have been thinking about this 'problem' in the wrong manner. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1564	Posted - 2014.11.07 10:31:00 - [106] - Quote Mark Crusader wrote: While we are looking at introducing "Spylinks", why not consider an entire set of racial EWAR equipment. This would go a long ways towards diversifying gameplay. (C) Signature Enhancer - increases the signature profile of enemies within range making them easier to detect (A) Scanner Beacon - pulses active scans every few seconds revealing nearby enemies (G) Scan Dampener - decreases the signature profile of friendlies within range, hiding them from enemy scans (M) Decoy Emitter - causes random red-blips to momentarily appear on enemy minimaps With a full set of place-able EWAR equipment, fitting bonuses can be assigned to racial dropsuits. Lore buffs might notice that the proposed equipment counters and complements each other along racial lines ;) You'd need to switch the cal and min equipment to represent what the races actually do. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 856	Posted - 2014.11.07 11:40:00 - [107] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The plate sig penalty is aimed at scouts, primarily, and most of these are still just ideas. But it's more like a shotgun aimed at scouts that will murder everybody else within range. Hah. Sawed Off Signature Shotgun. I like the allegory. This is why Scouts need a direct nerf. Not HP modules. Not cloak delays. Scouts. Directly. Their base stats. Their HP. Their Precision and Range and Profile. Their base stats are too good. Its their base stats that allow them to be the best slayers. The cloaks only accentuate the problem. Stop trying to elegantly sidestep the problem and just whack them already. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 212	Posted - 2014.11.07 11:47:00 - [108] - Quote I am pretty sure the reason they do not wish to change them is because the light armor suit is balanced with its much lower pg/cpu prior to cloak, but they do need to change the scout class at the very least because no one uses the light suits and it is op. I mean I don't think there have been more threads about anything so it isn't like they don't have input. What will be fun is to see if they make a good choice. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1089	Posted - 2014.11.07 11:52:00 - [109] - Quote *Remove all directional information about the enemy* Agree, this is quite a big change on its own but well worth doing. Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Am agnostic on this, will leave it to the boffins to work through the ramifications. *Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile* Extenders: yes. Please make it a flat amount, not percentage (percentage means stacking penalty, but penalises big suits more) Plates: a more elegant approach would be to make scan precision worse instead, as Nullus suggested. PS: Please don't change ferro scales or reactive plates in this change. *Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC* This shows promise, but something sticky like spy remotes would be better? Note that another option is available: spy grenades that expire after a certain amount of time after being thrown. *Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50%* I think a more nuanced approach is needed. Personally, I'm a fan of many different types of scanner, all following this rule of thumb: "Range, cool down, precision, pick only two" *Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others* Why not change it to a flat amount in metres per range extender? *STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks.* Fair enough, but remember that prototype equipment costs are very high, especially on packhorse logistics suits. *Reduce Scan duration across the board* Deal, as long as you also increase the scan angle, and make Active Scanner skill provide an efficiency bonus to cool down. *Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated* Agnostic, but would like to make the point that gallogi is by far getting the rough end of this particular pineapple. *Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only* The bad range, angle and cool down makes this moot anyway. Focused scanner is in a really bad place at the moment and I think it's reasonable to break this discussion into another thread. Dust/Eve transfers
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2777	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:00:00 - [110] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam So let's focus on what can be done. Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed. Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener" Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there. I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. Question: would it be possible to make the dot appear for some suits, but not others, based on the ratio of scan precision to profile dampening? "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2777	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:12:00 - [111] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2406348#post2406348 Im going to leave this here... "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1269	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:19:00 - [112] - Quote I would reverse the abilities of suits regarding precision and dampening. Heavies would have the best precision but have high profile, scouts would remain best at dampening and have lowest profile. A heavy can see but will be seen, a scout can hide but will be blind, mediums can do either/or but neither as well. This would make Ewar accessible and valuable to all, not just scouts. Because, that's why.
Xatha De'Agelle Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 7	Posted - 2014.11.07 15:32:00 - [113] - Quote -Directional Arrow on radar. (multiple arguments being filled here.) Scan radius of 35 meters as an example. Radar is detecting everything at elevation as well as everything above and below. That is large amount of information. The scout knows enemies are nearby, but where nearby? Directional arrows, as their is no elevation indicator. If a scout has a building to their west with no entrances and sees an arrow pointing west adjacent to it, they understand they are probably not staring face first at the building, but are atop it. If a catwalk is to the scouts east and someone is looking west, the scout knows that they may be able to see them there if they look down. This is a big deal because if a scout is cloaked, biding their time to move, it is imperative they do so while informed. They need to understand when their enemy looks a different direction so as to time movement out of danger, through danger, or into danger. Cloak does not give invisibility. It gives camouflage that is greatly negated when a user moves. It is useful for traversing large open fields, but not so much close quarters. I would presume to argue that few have trouble seeing cloaks when they move at this point in time. It once was an offensive tool when everyone was not wise to it, but for myself, it is a tool of travel when no cover presents safe passage across a field of play. Another definitive difference in the EWAR game is effective hitpoints. EWAR trades durability for clandestine operations. EWAR(200 effective hitpoints) vs HP game(700 HP). EWAR cut for stealth, speed, and cunning. When an ewar scout is within passive scan range of enemies on the other side of a wall or building, they are in no less danger of being visually identified over Assaults or Heavies. Not being detected is the point and detecting enemy positions is the point, as a scout does not have the effective HP to muscle their way into an enemy position. They use guile to strike when it is opportune to survive and to guide their squad in a more successful assault. My argument is that passive scan is not just a matter of knowing an enemy is on the other side of a wall in the form of a blip. A blip is not very actionable intelligence, as in information you can make a good decision on. A single heavy facing a door will kill ten EWAR charging in let alone one, which is proper. He has done his duty defending a his objective as we all know that they do well. Now have a single heavy who can't decide if he is watching the door or checking his back, one can feasibly now have a fair fight for an EWAR to engage. My 1st and 2nd argument is this CCP: 1st: If you intend to bring heavies and assaults into the EWAR umbrella as you claim, so that they too can dampen and scan vs lazy scouts the directional arrows on radar will HELP them in the long run as well. 2nd: Differentiate the scan information of Active and Passive scans. Make Active scans the general widely cast net for information on enemy positions and remove the directional indicator from them and leave directional indicators on close proximity passive scans of troops who are in the thick, gathering precise information. Thank you, and I do and would appreciate feedback.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 70	Posted - 2014.11.07 15:44:00 - [114] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I would reverse the abilities of suits regarding precision and dampening. Heavies would have the best precision but have high profile, scouts would remain best at dampening and have lowest profile. A heavy can see but will be seen, a scout can hide but will be blind, mediums can do either/or but neither as well. This would make Ewar accessible and valuable to all, not just scouts. Because the data is wrong. HMG Heavies are not yet EZ enough. They need the best HP, the best DPS, and the best native precision (so nothing can sneak up on them). Also, nerf REs. Then heavies will finally be "balanced" by GD standards.
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD RUST415 74	Posted - 2014.11.07 15:49:00 - [115] - Quote Also late to this, but how about adding an EMP remote explosive. It has a much wider range, does everything a flux grenade does, and shuts down and resetting the cool-down timer on all equipment. Possible even stop a hack in progress, so they would need to start over.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13071	Posted - 2014.11.07 17:21:00 - [116] - Quote CCP Rattati, any chance for something like a light sensor from the thief games? Basically a little dark dot on the screen that becomes bright when we are detected by scans, regardless of what type. It could replace the "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" message, and make passive scans much more bearable, as you now at least get warning. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13071	Posted - 2014.11.07 17:22:00 - [117] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The plate sig penalty is aimed at scouts, primarily, and most of these are still just ideas. But it's more like a shotgun aimed at scouts that will murder everybody else within range. Hah. Sawed Off Signature Shotgun. I like the allegory. This is why Scouts need a direct nerf. Not HP modules. Not cloak delays. Scouts. Directly. Their base stats. Their HP. Their Precision and Range and Profile. Their base stats are too good. Its their base stats that allow them to be the best slayers. The cloaks only accentuate the problem. Stop trying to elegantly sidestep the problem and just whack them already. The Barbershop will light up in flames. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13071	Posted - 2014.11.07 17:28:00 - [118] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision This is actually an incredibly neat idea. Give each suit 5-6 rings so that you could fine tune precision at different ranges. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.11.07 17:38:00 - [119] - Quote Xatha De'Agelle wrote: [...] If a catwalk is to the scouts east and someone is looking west, the scout knows that they may be able to see them there if they look down. This is a big deal because if a scout is cloaked, biding their time to move, it is imperative they do so while informed. They need to understand when their enemy looks a different direction so as to time movement out of danger, through danger, or into danger. [...] this +1 A min scout wired for scouting has a mere 200~250 effective HP (shield+armor). This play style cares significantly more about the directional arrow than the 700 HP brick tanked shotgun scout.
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.11.07 17:40:00 - [120] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision This is actually an incredibly neat idea. Give each suit 5-6 rings so that you could fine tune precision at different ranges. I suggested only 3 so as to limit how much of the system resources the tacnet would take. Assuming it's as resource hungry as I imagine it is, having 3 for infantry+1 for vehicles would already be quite intense, but who knows?

Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 317	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:00:00 - [121] - Quote I really think the Gal logi bonus should be changed so it doesn't benefit precision. It's just too hard for mediums to avoid. You should distinguish active scans as long range, forward facing, low precision scans. It should be viable for mediums to avoid. Mediums who tend to fight head on at range. Passive scans on scouts and logis should be how you scan scouts. 360 degrees, short range to combat scouts who specialise in CQC. Scouts should still be able to avoid passives with moderate dampening.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1271	Posted - 2014.11.07 20:01:00 - [122] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I would reverse the abilities of suits regarding precision and dampening. Heavies would have the best precision but have high profile, scouts would remain best at dampening and have lowest profile. A heavy can see but will be seen, a scout can hide but will be blind, mediums can do either/or but neither as well. This would make Ewar accessible and valuable to all, not just scouts. Because the data is wrong. HMG Heavies are not yet EZ enough. They need the best HP, the best DPS, and the best native precision (so nothing can sneak up on them). Also, nerf REs. Then heavies will finally be "balanced" by GD standards. Yes, HMG's require a nerf as does the cloak, but it is a separate but related issue. Because, that's why.
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 4105	Posted - 2014.11.08 01:11:00 - [123] - Quote I think it needs a lot of attention simply because it feels like it was put on the back burner then kind of just forgotten. Also, each race should get a kind of bonus to one eWar skill vs the others. You can decide which should get which, but I suggest that that the Amarr and Minmatar but get bonus to a few stats. Minmatar would have all 3 stats get a slight bonus and Amarr would get 2 weak stat bonuses and 1 strong bonus. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Xatha De'Agelle Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2014.11.08 04:43:00 - [124] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Xatha De'Agelle wrote: [...] If a catwalk is to the scouts east and someone is looking west, the scout knows that they may be able to see them there if they look down. This is a big deal because if a scout is cloaked, biding their time to move, it is imperative they do so while informed. They need to understand when their enemy looks a different direction so as to time movement out of danger, through danger, or into danger. [...] this +1 A min scout wired for scouting has a mere 200~250 effective HP (shield+armor). This play style cares significantly more about the directional arrow than the 700 HP brick tanked shotgun scout. Especially a minmitar scout going nova knives.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10800	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:15:00 - [125] - Quote Mark Crusader wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Could do Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile I've thought of a similar idea before, with a slightly different approach. Shield Extenders increase signature profile Armor Plates increase scan precision (nerf) The reasoning is that the counter modules for each of these penalties go in the opposite slots. After the change, shield and armor tanking will be no worse off than the other if people want to sacrifice slots to balance their fit. It also complements common play-styles. Heavily armor tanked fits are ready to stand their ground when the enemy comes up on them, and more mobile shield tanked fits already have a means to evade enemies pursuing them. Additionally, this makes the fitting meta equally more interesting for both shield and armor. Players who don't want to be impacted by the penalties can choose to fit Shield Rechargers instead or complement with Dampeners when tanking shields, or fit Armor Reps instead or complement with Precision Enhancers when tanking armor. Lore wise, thick armor plating interferes with signal detection, while additional shields create extra EM noise that can be more easily detected. Excellent point, and much better. The penalty wouldn't be high and might even replace the current penalties. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 220	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:24:00 - [126] - Quote OOO no more speed penalties 8*D don't play with my emotions Rattatati that would probably do wonders to bring assaults back into the mix. If you did it would there be a speed increase for ak. suits? Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 226	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:24:00 - [127] - Quote OOO no more speed penalties 8*D don't play with my emotions Rattatati that would probably do wonders to bring assaults back into the mix. If you did it would there be a speed increase for ak. suits? Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10804	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:30:00 - [128] - Quote I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10804	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:34:00 - [129] - Quote Also, I am all for wider scan angles, I think there needs to be rhyme and reason how they work, imagine a triangle with the precision, scan angle and range, as points, duration is a factor of precision, you always sacrifice one for the other two or have mediocre skills in the middle. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

voidfaction Nos Nothi 636	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:39:00 - [130] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. DO IT. In the Barbershop we have been asking for this.

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 221	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:41:00 - [131] - Quote The way players use speed tanked scouts is kincats + plates with shotty so they can sprint at above normal speed including the penalty and one/2shot the target. So I am not sure how effective the speed penalty is/would be. And strife scouts are shield tankers. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 226	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:41:00 - [132] - Quote The way players use speed tanked scouts is kincats + plates with shotty so they can sprint at above normal speed including the penalty and one/2shot the target. So I am not sure how effective the speed penalty is/would be. And strife scouts are shield tankers. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2478	Posted - 2014.11.08 06:25:00 - [133] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Make a new stat on all suits called mass. Speed/agility would be derived from mass. Light suits have low mass, heavies high mass. Plates would add a fixed amount of mass to the suits (except feroscale). This would heavily penalize the movement of low mass suits and less so on heavy frames (as a relative percent change). Likewise shield extenders would increase signature profile. Add a feroscale analogue for shield extenders without the penalty. This would more closely follow EVE. Best PvE idea ever!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10818	Posted - 2014.11.08 07:40:00 - [134] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Make a new stat on all suits called mass. Speed/agility would be derived from mass. Light suits have low mass, heavies high mass. Plates would add a fixed amount of mass to the suits (except feroscale). This would heavily penalize the movement of low mass suits and less so on heavy frames (as a relative percent change). Likewise shield extenders would increase signature profile. Add a feroscale analogue for shield extenders without the penalty. This would more closely follow EVE. Even if not directly added to the stats, that's exactly how I intend to design the penalties, and share the calculations. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3321	Posted - 2014.11.08 07:42:00 - [135] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Also, I am all for wider scan angles, I think there needs to be rhyme and reason how they work, imagine a triangle with the precision, scan angle and range, as points, duration is a factor of precision, you always sacrifice one for the other two or have mediocre skills in the middle. >Focused scanners favor precision and range over duration and angle. Major drawback, short duration requires constant use, the low angle forces the user to require multiple scans to get accurate and complete data. Team share scanner, no directional arrow, short duration short cool down 1:2 ratio Flux scanners favor range and angle over precision and duration. Flux scanners can do wide sweeps of an are but due to their low precision and duration they are only used for pre-breach situations. Team share scanner, directional arrow short duration (slightly longer than focused) high cool down 1:5 ratio Proximity scanners favor duration and angle over precision and range. Perform wide sweeps of large areas (wider than flux) but due to their short range information is limited. Squad share scanner, no directional arrow, long duration medium long cool down 1:2.0 ratio Quantum scanners favor range and duration over precision and angle. These scanners can perform long lasting sweeps at long ranges but suffer from bad precision and low angles. Team share scanner, no directional arrow short cool down and duration 1:1.7 ratio. Duration and cool down should be directly proportional. Ratio means every second of direction will cool down by this many seconds. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2478	Posted - 2014.11.08 08:10:00 - [136] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Make a new stat on all suits called mass. Speed/agility would be derived from mass. Light suits have low mass, heavies high mass. Plates would add a fixed amount of mass to the suits (except feroscale). This would heavily penalize the movement of low mass suits and less so on heavy frames (as a relative percent change). Likewise shield extenders would increase signature profile. Add a feroscale analogue for shield extenders without the penalty. This would more closely follow EVE. Even if not directly added to the stats, that's exactly how I intend to design the penalties, and share the calculations. Yeah, the outcome would be the same. With the mass stat, everything would be consistent though instead of having different rules applying to different frame sizes, which is "un-EVEesque." The mass stat would be more elegant, if a bit more work to add. It may not be hotfixable though. Best PvE idea ever!
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 271	Posted - 2014.11.08 11:06:00 - [137] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mark Crusader wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Could do Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile I've thought of a similar idea before, with a slightly different approach. Shield Extenders increase signature profile Armor Plates increase scan precision (nerf) The reasoning is that the counter modules for each of these penalties go in the opposite slots. After the change, shield and armor tanking will be no worse off than the other if people want to sacrifice slots to balance their fit. It also complements common play-styles. Heavily armor tanked fits are ready to stand their ground when the enemy comes up on them, and more mobile shield tanked fits already have a means to evade enemies pursuing them. Additionally, this makes the fitting meta equally more interesting for both shield and armor. Players who don't want to be impacted by the penalties can choose to fit Shield Rechargers instead or complement with Dampeners when tanking shields, or fit Armor Reps instead or complement with Precision Enhancers when tanking armor. Lore wise, thick armor plating interferes with signal detection, while additional shields create extra EM noise that can be more easily detected. Excellent point, and much better. The penalty wouldn't be high and might even replace the current penalties. I actually want them to be reversed actually, armour plates increase signature profile and shield exteneders increase scan presicion. The reason being, if we go with the theory above, I can put on armour plates and then negate the scan precision penalty by stacking precision modules on the high slots. Take a gallante scout for example, I can have 600+ armour with decent reps and by putting 2 scan precision enhancers, I can totally negate the penalty of the armour plates; and thus we're back to square one. Wasn't this the problem with CA scouts before it was nerfs, it could stack precision enhancers and range amplifiers, and their bonuses provided just that as well. Proud member of Glitched Connection "Only idiots start a fight they can't win" - Sora (No Game No Life)
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 417	Posted - 2014.11.08 11:54:00 - [138] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Bug report ID: 165755 This Active Scanner exploit is waiting 7 weeks to be filtered. Do it already please. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 437	Posted - 2014.11.08 13:25:00 - [139] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Keep taking gun game out of this game. GG. I'm sure skilled players will all appreciate this. FFS. Take a bow
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 97	Posted - 2014.11.08 13:56:00 - [140] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. 1. In my best estimation, strafe acceleration has much more to do with the wiggle-wiggle meta than strafe speed. Reducing speed might help, but adding inertia would likely solve the problem. It should be noted that Assault users with decent strafe skills can wiggle-wiggle-weave through bullets nearly as readily as a Scout (strafe acceleration > strafe speed). 2. A "draconian :-)" plate penalty to scout movement would go a long way toward reducing AM/GA Assault Lite usage. I'm in favor. I also agree that lighter armors (ferro/reactive) should not be affected. With this change, I'd anticipate a shift in scout PC meta from GA to CA, but would offer that this would be an improvement. A GA Scout can simultaneously dampen below 18dB (or stack kin cats) while dual tanking well beyond the shotgun's OHK threshold; the CA Scout cannot. 3. While penalizing shield extenders (i.e. increasing signature) may prove an appropriate and necessary response to a rise in CalScouts, I'd advise doing so with caution on account of the non-problematic MinScout. He is heavily reliant upon both damps and shields; such a nerf will impact him by greater degree than it'd impact the target CalScout.

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 833	Posted - 2014.11.08 14:20:00 - [141] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Make a new stat on all suits called mass. Speed/agility would be derived from mass. Light suits have low mass, heavies high mass. Plates would add a fixed amount of mass to the suits (except feroscale). This would heavily penalize the movement of low mass suits and less so on heavy frames (as a relative percent change). Likewise shield extenders would increase signature profile. Add a feroscale analogue for shield extenders without the penalty. This would more closely follow EVE. Even if not directly added to the stats, that's exactly how I intend to design the penalties, and share the calculations. Different perspective on this: How would a person that didn't read the hotfix discussion pages come to understand this concept? Especially considering that this isn't how it used to work. I guess the person who designed the ewar system was originally thinking of a target audience that doesn't read the eve-wiki on every item they plan on fitting, that's my theory how we got the "if precision < signature and range < maximum range then scan"-design. While this has it's drawbacks I think the intention is worth keeping in mind. Can we maybe get a new mission statement for the discussion? So far we've mostly been brainstorming on stuff that may be fun, awesome or easy to implement, without directing it at a specific problem. While we're in the brainstorming mood: If you deconstructed a scout, assault and sentinel suit into a basic medium frame that has as many modules fit to it as necessary to achieve the base stats of a racial scout, assault and sentinel including lvl 5 operation, I believe you will arrive at a clear advantage for scouts in both the amounts of slots fitted and CPU/PG consumed. This I speculate is the main reason why we're unhappy with scouts and that then is why we're discussing ewar. So maybe we're unintentionally having an strawman-discussion.
Avallo Kantor SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 422	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:03:00 - [142] - Quote Speaking of the Ewar discussion, I have two questions based on the "can't do" column: 1) ls it possible to "blind" somebody, so that they can't see -any- scan results on their minimap, basically showing a blank slate. 2) Is it possible for a piece of equipment to create "ghosts" that only an enemy can scan and "see". For example, a piece of active equipment that causes enemy players scanners to pick up tons of fake suits. I feel that infantry should have equipment options that can cause defensive e-war that can fit and be active. Right now too much defensive e-war is passive only, and teams have little chance to defend against strong offensive e-war more dynamically. Ideally there should be equipment that can be carried (probably by logis / scouts) that can deny a teams offensive ewar for a short period, allowing for holes to be punched in their defense to attack from.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 75	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:24:00 - [143] - Quote I know I might get some flak for this, but any chance of just making vehicles always visible (since fall-off can't be done, and no word on the psuedo fall-off as suggested earlier in this thread) and then adding a module that made them only appear when within scan range (stealth system...either active or passive, I'm not picky on this one)? (I'm not saying this should be a blanket apply for all vehicles...but I shouldn't be sneaking up on infantry in a tank for crying out loud). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 99	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:36:00 - [144] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I know I might get some flak for this, but any chance of just making vehicles always visible (since fall-off can't be done, and no word on the psuedo fall-off as suggested earlier in this thread) and then adding a module that made them only appear when within scan range (stealth system...either active or passive, I'm not picky on this one)? (I'm not saying this should be a blanket apply for all vehicles...but I shouldn't be sneaking up on infantry in a tank for crying out loud). Wasn't this already fixed with 1.9?
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 75	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:38:00 - [145] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I know I might get some flak for this, but any chance of just making vehicles always visible (since fall-off can't be done, and no word on the psuedo fall-off as suggested earlier in this thread) and then adding a module that made them only appear when within scan range (stealth system...either active or passive, I'm not picky on this one)? (I'm not saying this should be a blanket apply for all vehicles...but I shouldn't be sneaking up on infantry in a tank for crying out loud). Wasn't this already fixed with 1.9? If it was I haven't noticed it when going on the ground...and the guys I killed yesterday with the 80GJ railgun...after sitting there for a minute certainly didn't (No they where not snipers) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2301	Posted - 2014.11.08 15:47:00 - [146] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Make a new stat on all suits called mass. Speed/agility would be derived from mass. Light suits have low mass, heavies high mass. Plates would add a fixed amount of mass to the suits (except feroscale). This would heavily penalize the movement of low mass suits and less so on heavy frames (as a relative percent change). Likewise shield extenders would increase signature profile. Add a feroscale analogue for shield extenders without the penalty. This would more closely follow EVE. Even if not directly added to the stats, that's exactly how I intend to design the penalties, and share the calculations. Yeah, the outcome would be the same. With the mass stat, everything would be consistent though instead of having different rules applying to different frame sizes, which is "un-EVEesque." The mass stat would be more elegant, if a bit more work to add. It may not be hotfixable though. It honestly boggles the mind that things were not set up this way from the start. Suit drive systems produce force/torque, suits have mass/rotational inertia. So many benefits come from setting this up properly at the beginning that anything else honestly invites misery for devs engaged in future development. I hope were not making the same mistake in Legion. PSN: RationalSpark
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2457	Posted - 2014.11.08 18:14:00 - [147] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. I laid this out in a long post months ago but it got little response. I'll hunt for it.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 227	Posted - 2014.11.08 18:23:00 - [148] - Quote It seems overly complicated and restrictive. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2014.11.08 18:56:00 - [149] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: It seems overly complicated and restrictive. Some quick numbers I'm just throwing out for examples: Light = 100 kg Medium = 200 kg Heavy = 300 kg Basic Plate = 50 kg Enhanced Plate = 65 kg Complex Plate = 80 kg Assuming all suits have the same Power Grid giving them the initial Force, Light with (1x) Basic = 50% increase in mass, 33% reduction in acceleration Heavy with (1x) Basic = 17% increase in mass, 14.5% reduction in acceleration Light with (1x) Complex = 80% increase in mass, 45% reduction in acceleration Heavy with (1x) Complex = 27% increase in mass, 21% reduction in acceleration Amarr Ak.0 Sentinel with (4x) Complex = 207% increase in mass, 52% reduction in acceleration The light suits can still put on armor with a small penalty and remain fast. Heavy can carry more and not notice as much, but they're also already slower to begin with.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3071	Posted - 2014.11.08 19:05:00 - [150] - Quote Indy Strizer wrote: I feel that the logi should have better signature profile and the assault should have better precision. The logi should focus on survivability a bit more than the assault focuses on offense. That's just me though and my opinion on this is not very thought out. I agree with this. Scan precision is for hunters. Scan profile for prey. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".

Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3072	Posted - 2014.11.08 19:13:00 - [151] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Ferroscale plates are actually better than "standad" plates on an assault scout. It-¦s what the real slayers use (non-shotgun). Reducing strafe speed for heavily plated heavies and scouts is a good idea though. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 152	Posted - 2014.11.08 23:02:00 - [152] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA [...] You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around. Any thoughts on this compromise to scanning falloff, Rattati?
DarthPlagueis TheWise 312	Posted - 2014.11.08 23:32:00 - [153] - Quote You know what? As a Gal Logi, I'm fine with this as long as we keep our precision. At first I was a little on edge about it but now that I realized this is just designed to help out Min/Amarr scouts it's fine. But if you take away our precision, you are nerfing the role completely and rendering it useless. Bolas deploys tank in strategic location
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 59	Posted - 2014.11.09 00:35:00 - [154] - Quote Regarding scan falloff... CCP Rattati wrote: Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta. Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex
Skullmiser Vulcansu 164	Posted - 2014.11.09 01:22:00 - [155] - Quote This is my point of view: I usually run a precision enhancer and profile dampener or my Amarr Logistics suit. I will be content with any changes if this is enough to defeat any suit with no electronic warfare modules( in electronic warfare, not combat). Scouts should be able to defeat this with basic modules, but they should need at least one, or else I will not think the game is balanced. After all... one armor module is all it would take to pass the base hit points of Logistics suits. Why the the reverse not be true for electronic warfare? I like that logistic suits have better scan precision and range than assaults. I don't think logistics need to have a worse profile to be balanced, because the assaults already have a lot going for them that the logistics do not(More speed, hit points, and weapon bonuses). I know that this is biased, but Logistics players are presently much more lacking in survivability than Assault players. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 80	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:10:00 - [156] - Quote I came up with an idea. One of the problems with scouts is that their ewar is so good, and it is always on. I made a post about how I disliked the idea of cloak fields reducing scan range as it cancels out your ewar skills and mods to have it active. THis means you're less likely to use them, and more likely to brick out instead of use things they get bonuses to. What if instead things went like this: 1. Take scout's base ewar range to 10, and increase their profile to 40db. 2. Add a multiplier to scanning range while cloaked, and add a minimum cloak duration (maybe 3 seconds). 3. (optional) Increase cloak dampening by 5% per level This gives scouts 2 modes. Combat ready and relatively blind, and defenseless ewar mode. You can cloak up to gather information, but to engage an enemy you make yourself blind. A minimum cloak duration prevents quick activation so you can't just get quick pulses of intel, and it encourages use of better cloak fields for scouting. You can possibly scale ewar range bonus to equipment tier, or add different types of cloaks with different modifiers to duration, range, dampening, cooldown etc. In short, scouts will be encouraged to use their scout cloak field bonus. They can provide intel and be stealthy (what scouts want) but only temporarily. Any scout that wants to be a stealthy brawler can try, but they won't have the massive ewar stats while doing it. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2383	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:16:00 - [157] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. So as a proper speed scout using ewar, those brick tankers are not only slower but will show up easier on my scans too? Awrrr hell yes! Make scouting about actual scouting, infiltration, shadow play, etc again and not this pseudo-assault thing. I also very much like the idea of leaving reactives and ferroscales as they are. I occasionally slap a ferroscale on my speed scouts to offer just a little more buffer. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2383	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:19:00 - [158] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I came up with an idea. One of the problems with scouts is that their ewar is so good, and it is always on. I made a post about how I disliked the idea of cloak fields reducing scan range as it cancels out your ewar skills and mods to have it active. THis means you're less likely to use them, and more likely to brick out instead of use things they get bonuses to. What if instead things went like this: 1. Take scout's base ewar range to 10, and increase their profile to 40db. 2. Add a multiplier to scanning range while cloaked, and add a minimum cloak duration (maybe 3 seconds). 3. (optional) Increase cloak dampening by 5% per level This gives scouts 2 modes. Combat ready and relatively blind, and defenseless ewar mode. You can cloak up to gather information, but to engage an enemy you make yourself blind. A minimum cloak duration prevents quick activation so you can't just get quick pulses of intel, and it encourages use of better cloak fields for scouting. You can possibly scale ewar range bonus to equipment tier, or add different types of cloaks with different modifiers to duration, range, dampening, cooldown etc. In short, scouts will be encouraged to use their scout cloak field bonus. They can provide intel and be stealthy (what scouts want) but only temporarily. Any scout that wants to be a stealthy brawler can try, but they won't have the massive ewar stats while doing it. Certainly an interesting idea, and I am sure we could work on it to make it awesome however, what about us scouts that do not use a cloak? Are you forcing all scouts to be cloakers or is this to only apply when a cloak is fitted? I dislike being forced to use a cloak, it should be a choice just like any piece of equipment is. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 61	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:23:00 - [159] - Quote What if cloak became standard issue for scout? Tiered bonus attached to the suit you wear, essentially giving up one equipment slot and probably some CPU/PG in exchange for pre-fitted cloak...?
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 81	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:29:00 - [160] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I came up with an idea. One of the problems with scouts is that their ewar is so good, and it is always on. I made a post about how I disliked the idea of cloak fields reducing scan range as it cancels out your ewar skills and mods to have it active. THis means you're less likely to use them, and more likely to brick out instead of use things they get bonuses to. What if instead things went like this: 1. Take scout's base ewar range to 10, and increase their profile to 40db. 2. Add a multiplier to scanning range while cloaked, and add a minimum cloak duration (maybe 3 seconds). 3. (optional) Increase cloak dampening by 5% per level This gives scouts 2 modes. Combat ready and relatively blind, and defenseless ewar mode. You can cloak up to gather information, but to engage an enemy you make yourself blind. A minimum cloak duration prevents quick activation so you can't just get quick pulses of intel, and it encourages use of better cloak fields for scouting. You can possibly scale ewar range bonus to equipment tier, or add different types of cloaks with different modifiers to duration, range, dampening, cooldown etc. In short, scouts will be encouraged to use their scout cloak field bonus. They can provide intel and be stealthy (what scouts want) but only temporarily. Any scout that wants to be a stealthy brawler can try, but they won't have the massive ewar stats while doing it. Certainly an interesting idea, and I am sure we could work on it to make it awesome however, what about us scouts that do not use a cloak? Are you forcing all scouts to be cloakers or is this to only apply when a cloak is fitted? I dislike being forced to use a cloak, it should be a choice just like any piece of equipment is. They can use ewar mods like everyone else and get bonues. Perhaps a 15m radius with a +33% bonus instead. Maybe adjusted cloak stats for an optimum balance. Mostly, I think this idea takes away scout omnipotence and encourages using your bonus for scouting. I'm all up for improving it so that more scout play styles are welcome and valid. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m

CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 81	Posted - 2014.11.09 02:48:00 - [161] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: I came up with an idea. One of the problems with scouts is that their ewar is so good, and it is always on. I made a post about how I disliked the idea of cloak fields reducing scan range as it cancels out your ewar skills and mods to have it active. THis means you're less likely to use them, and more likely to brick out instead of use things they get bonuses to. What if instead things went like this: 1. Take scout's base ewar range to 10, and increase their profile to 40db. 2. Add a multiplier to scanning range while cloaked, and add a minimum cloak duration (maybe 3 seconds). 3. (optional) Increase cloak dampening by 5% per level This gives scouts 2 modes. Combat ready and relatively blind, and defenseless ewar mode. You can cloak up to gather information, but to engage an enemy you make yourself blind. A minimum cloak duration prevents quick activation so you can't just get quick pulses of intel, and it encourages use of better cloak fields for scouting. You can possibly scale ewar range bonus to equipment tier, or add different types of cloaks with different modifiers to duration, range, dampening, cooldown etc. In short, scouts will be encouraged to use their scout cloak field bonus. They can provide intel and be stealthy (what scouts want) but only temporarily. Any scout that wants to be a stealthy brawler can try, but they won't have the massive ewar stats while doing it. Certainly an interesting idea, and I am sure we could work on it to make it awesome however, what about us scouts that do not use a cloak? Are you forcing all scouts to be cloakers or is this to only apply when a cloak is fitted? I dislike being forced to use a cloak, it should be a choice just like any piece of equipment is. Or perhaps you can think of it like off-racial equipment on a logi. Still very useful, but not optimal. I mostly wanna encourage the use of cloak as it is a defining feature of scouts, but many would prefer not to bother with it. I want it to be something (as you get a bonus with it) that you want to put on. Like a cal logi and nanohives, or a rep tool on a min logi. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 13	Posted - 2014.11.09 03:13:00 - [162] - Quote Here's something I'd like to discuss; Giving Logistics suits the longest scan range. Hear me out; one of the biggest flaws of Ewar right now is that the highest range suit, lowest profile suit, and the suit with the best precision are all on one type of suit and, currently, so much better at it that other suits need not apply. While many of the changes that have been proposed seek to bring narrow the gap and bring the other dropsuits into Ewar there will always be a problem if something so powerful is still dominated by one suit type. My proposal is simple enough. Logistic suits will have their scan precision made weak enough that they cannot scan an assault suit without equipping at least one precision module, yet will out-range all other dropsuits to compensate. This will make it so that even non-Ewar Logistics will give their squad forewarning against any undampened (and probably full-tank) Heavy suits while requiring that Logi to have to run ferroscale and precision in order to find Assault suits. If we can get the numbers right a Logistics suit would be able throw on a single complex range module to get a heads up on any HMG Sentinels or Assault suits who don't care about their profile. Logibro's willing to sacrifice everything for the team, however, can opt to walk around in cardboard armor so that their squadmates can turn corners and move on objectives without having to worry about an Assault suit with a shotgun waiting around every corner... Unless, of course, that Assault is willing to wear cheap paper machete in order to maintain the element of surprise.... Just another thought on how to make things interesting, mainly because there can never be enough Logibro's out and about.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1371	Posted - 2014.11.09 04:25:00 - [163] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The plate sig penalty is aimed at scouts . It just seems like threw the discussion that this is in fact helping scouts to see better and with the changes to the scanners , penalizing those who use scanners more then currently because now there are more limits to the functionality of active scanners . I don't use a Gal Logi but I do have my active scanners maxed and now after reading this I see that was a bad decision when as a logi it's a helpful tool . Logistics seem to get penalized more then enough lately with the changes to the functionality of the equipment and making them less functional , which penalizes the logistic role once again . Active scanners are basically useless unless in the hands of a Gal Logi , most don't even see a dampened scout .. which makes it kind of worthless but these are the one's with the longest cool down times and greater cost . I don't see the benefits because I play Medic and I'm not specking into a role to use a scanner that just received a drop off in it's functionality . A lot of scouts don't use plates and this clearly won't effect them and actually gives them buff in their ability to pick up signatures , most heavies , Logi's and assaults wear plates and the boost in a signature decrease won't warrant the loss of HP's and regen , also this change will decrease TTK , which will lead to shorter fights , quicker clone outs and faster matches . I know that these are just idea's but other routes could have been taken instead of decreasing the functionality of another equipment tool and boosting scouts seeing and hiding abilities . Thank you Rattati , the DEV crew and the CPM for getting the job of 1.9 done .
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8327	Posted - 2014.11.09 05:38:00 - [164] - Quote I personally think Assaults need better scan radius and Logistics get better precision. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2789	Posted - 2014.11.09 05:59:00 - [165] - Quote DO NOT GIVE EXTENDERS A PROFILE PENALTY It will completely ruin the min scout. I already take half my HP from the fall damage from just JUMPING if I have no HP mods. This change would completely invalidate us. If you're gonna give plates a profile penalty, make it only the non variant plates (same as move speed), though, TBH, I think that doubling the penalties of HP mods on scout suits would be sufficient, if the nerfs that you have in place haven't been enough. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 903	Posted - 2014.11.09 06:57:00 - [166] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: DO NOT GIVE EXTENDERS A PROFILE PENALTY It will completely ruin the min scout. I already take half my HP from the fall damage from just JUMPING if I have no HP mods. This change would completely invalidate us. If you're gonna give plates a profile penalty, make it only the non variant plates (same as move speed), though, TBH, I think that doubling the penalties of HP mods on scout suits would be sufficient, if the nerfs that you have in place haven't been enough. Or they could always do this: Negates 18% fall damage per level. (Min scout level 5 would have 90% fall damage reduction.) Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou Chief Intelligence Officer (Forum Warrior)
Cass Caul 1492	Posted - 2014.11.09 08:19:00 - [167] - Quote It has recently come to my attention that back in July, the last time Rattati made changes to EWAR that in this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168249&find=unread He linked a google sheets page that had profile values. The numbers for the Amarr Scout and Minmatar Scout when using 2 complex profile dampeners are incorrect. The Amarr and Minmatar Scouts, according to that page, can overcome a lvl 5 Amarr Scout using 2 Complex Precision Enhancers simply by equipping an equal number of Complex Profile Dampeners. This is false. The Amarr and Minmatar Scouts need 2 Complex Profile Dampeners and the Ishukone Cloak Field to overcome a lvl 5 Amarr Scout with 2 Complex Precision Enhancers I am not sure if Rattati is still using this innacurate information to determine his ideas, but the many of these things heavily penalize Minmatar Scouts while penalizing Amarr and Caldari fairly well too. The Gallente Scout is least effected, yet that seems to be the target. Reminder: Just because someone is an employed developer does not make their ideas sacrosanct. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 239	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:12:00 - [168] - Quote You guys talk about hp and hp mods so much when it doesn't matter to a scout. In a frontal assault scene shot gun scouts use speed/dps to kill you and strife scouts use shield regain and dps. The little extra hp is nice, but really makes no difference because our dps is just as high if not higher then yours and you have to adapt to us. Most classes use a light weapon slot so dps is equal right? wrong because combat starts when you are facing away and most weapons do not leave enough time to recover this is the reason I am so adamant about sidearms only scouts for a fix. It addresses all of the scouts abilities without hurting other classes and furthermore allows them to be balanced separately which their abilities demand. We all agree that scouts are meant to be sneaky and that means they will be able to get the jump on you so none of these changes will make a difference then. It is the dps that must be addressed, but Dps can not be addressed while scouts are in the same weapons pool as the other classes. Now this is a thread on changing ewar and really comes down to changing scouts now we can think of plenty of great Ideas to break scouts, but I don't think any of them will increase the time between my first shot and and your death whether I am cloaked or not. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 239	Posted - 2014.11.09 09:12:00 - [169] - Quote You guys talk about hp and hp mods so much when it doesn't matter to a scout. In a frontal assault scene shot gun scouts use speed/dps to kill you and strife scouts use shield regain and dps. The little extra hp is nice, but really makes no difference because our dps is just as high if not higher then yours and you have to adapt to us. Most classes use a light weapon slot so dps is equal right? wrong because combat starts when you are facing away and most weapons do not leave enough time to recover this is the reason I am so adamant about sidearms only scouts for a fix. It addresses all of the scouts abilities without hurting other classes and furthermore allows them to be balanced separately which their abilities demand. We all agree that scouts are meant to be sneaky and that means they will be able to get the jump on you so none of these changes will make a difference then. It is the dps that must be addressed, but Dps can not be addressed while scouts are in the same weapons pool as the other classes. Now this is a thread on changing ewar and really comes down to changing scouts now we can think of plenty of great Ideas to break scouts, but I don't think any of them will increase the time between my first shot and and your death whether I am cloaked or not. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 834	Posted - 2014.11.09 11:38:00 - [170] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: this is the reason I am so adamant about sidearms only scouts for a fix. Remember how Scouts were fine / slightly UP before 1.8? I enjoyed being a scout back then because you absolutely had to get the drop on people to survive. Once seen you pretty much died instantly. What I'm trying to say is that it is well within the realm of possibilities to push the scout out of the assault role without taking away the light weapon slot. Pre 1.7 stats are proof of that.

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 239	Posted - 2014.11.09 12:30:00 - [171] - Quote You mean light suits were fine. correct? That had no bonuses and did not have increased cpu/pg in order to fit cloak. correct? The light suits that are still balanced now? Well if that is correct then by all means play it the fact is that what we deal with in the scout suit is completely different thanks to the cloak and the cpu/pg required to use it. Comparing the two is ignorance at best, but most likely just disingenuous. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 239	Posted - 2014.11.09 12:30:00 - [172] - Quote You mean light suits were fine. correct? That had no bonuses and did not have increased cpu/pg in order to fit cloak. correct? The light suits that are still balanced now? Well if that is correct then by all means play it the fact is that what we deal with in the scout suit now is completely different from what it was thanks to the cloak and the cpu/pg required to use it. To think you can take a balanced suit increase its stats and abilities and believe it would remain balanced without taking anything away is ********. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoZ-25tlD7c Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 332	Posted - 2014.11.09 12:49:00 - [173] - Quote What happened to making scout ewar bonuses module dependant? Also, penalties for scouts fitting hp mods should be targeted at other attributes rather than profile. Nerfing profile will only encourage people to use scouts like assaults and tank them up, ignoring the profile penalty. Instead you will be nerfing the scouts that do try to be stealthy and use limited hp mods to stay alive. What about shield regen? How about a large regen rate penalty for extenders on scouts? For plates, a scout-only large penalty to movement? Please don't nerf scout suit scan range, 20m is just far enough (base). Reducing assault profile a bit is good, but the Gal logi precision bonus still makes it too hard for assaults to dampen effectively. Change the bonus to cooldown or angle. Buff precision of focused scanners, and introduce an advanced focused scanner. This way focussed scanners will be a method of scanning scouts, however their limited angle, cooldown and duration will allow scouts to use skill and positioning to avoid them. If they get scanned by a focused scanner they don't have long to wait for the scan to wear off.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 915	Posted - 2014.11.09 12:52:00 - [174] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: Keep taking gun game out of this game. GG. I'm sure skilled players will all appreciate this. FFS. Yeah, "gun game" Strafing like a spastic monkey on fire is not gun game. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 13	Posted - 2014.11.09 13:58:00 - [175] - Quote I am confused by people claiming that giving armor/shield modules a profile increase would help Scouts... Last I checked, Scouts were inherently capable of finding anyone else and had to put precision to find other Scouts, meaning that they are already finding Assaults without issue as dampening an Assault to hide from Ewar Scouts isn't feasible when they're aiming for someone way sneakier than you. Since you don't really need to hide from anyone else as non-Scouts are blind Ewar as a whole was Scout-only. The idea of profile signature increasing with plates is to make brick tank Scouts visible to any other Scout and potentially even make them visible to Assaults/Logis, making it possible for them to get a brief heads up before shotgun time. Chances are that the whole "Scouts find everyone but can't be found if they don't want to be found" thing isn't going to change but with these potential balancing changes they will be forced to choose between having heavy enough health to sprint in and murder a dude if caught or having low enough profile that they don't have to worry about an Assault with complex precision module turning around and saying "Hi" when they go in for the kill. Also, making every dropsuit have a scan range of 15 or higher dramatically increases the usefulness of adding the profile penalty as maxing the scan range skill gives you a range of 22.5 without modules, which is at least enough warning that you should be able to face shotgunners before they fire (assuming you're not in a firefight). Non-CQC Scouts will be largely unaffected, since they aren't likely to want to get that close unless paid.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2794	Posted - 2014.11.09 15:43:00 - [176] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: DO NOT GIVE EXTENDERS A PROFILE PENALTY It will completely ruin the min scout. I already take half my HP from the fall damage from just JUMPING if I have no HP mods. This change would completely invalidate us. If you're gonna give plates a profile penalty, make it only the non variant plates (same as move speed), though, TBH, I think that doubling the penalties of HP mods on scout suits would be sufficient, if the nerfs that you have in place haven't been enough. Or they could always do this: Negates 18% fall damage per level. (Min scout level 5 would have 90% fall damage reduction.) Facepalm "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2794	Posted - 2014.11.09 15:48:00 - [177] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: It has recently come to my attention that back in July, the last time Rattati made changes to EWAR that in this post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168249&find=unread He linked a google sheets page that had profile values. The numbers for the Amarr Scout and Minmatar Scout when using 2 complex profile dampeners are incorrect. The Amarr and Minmatar Scouts, according to that page, can overcome a lvl 5 Amarr Scout using 2 Complex Precision Enhancers simply by equipping an equal number of Complex Profile Dampeners. This is false. The Amarr and Minmatar Scouts need 2 Complex Profile Dampeners and the Ishukone Cloak Field to overcome a lvl 5 Amarr Scout with 2 Complex Precision Enhancers I am not sure if Rattati is still using this innacurate information to determine his ideas, but the many of these things heavily penalize Minmatar Scouts while penalizing Amarr and Caldari fairly well too. The Gallente Scout is least effected, yet that seems to be the target. Reminder: Just because someone is an employed developer does not make their ideas sacrosanct. This. All you're doing is killing off the minmitar scout, while continuing to make the Gallente the only viable option. In all honesty, the minmitar scout is in a good place/slight need of a tiny buff (to dampening), whereas the other scouts are in a good place/in need of a small nerf. Please do not seriously consider the HP mods penalizing any form of eWAR as a possibility. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1249	Posted - 2014.11.09 15:55:00 - [178] - Quote And people wonder why i got away from a Gal logis. Assaults should receive 0 eWAR buffs,logistics should. Assaults are like the dumb jocks,durable(high base eHP),but stupid(bad eWAR). Logistics is like smart nerds,weak(low eHP),but smart(high eWAR). CCP just gave assaults 150 more eHP,and logistics slots at 0 sacrifice. Now they are goung to give them an eWAR buff? While logistics was going to get a speed nerf,and now another equipment nerf? Seriously? Lol,welcome to all-brawn-no-brain514. I thought this was supposed to be a team game. Why not balance around logistics and assaults working together? Logistics is the assaults scanning platform,while the assault is the logistics bodyguard. Synchronization is a beautiful thing,and 'lol COD solo assault playing' should be shunned. As for the scan links. Have them 'ping' activated. 1 active at a time,cloak 'push button' activation. Each button push sends out a 1 second 'ping'. Recharge,or limited battery then 'pop'. Basic allows 1 ping before recharge. (30-45) ADV 2. Pro 3 with the best scan precision Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Jebus McKing lol Proto 892	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:06:00 - [179] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile I have to disagree with this change. I think EWAR is already complex enough without another module messing with profiles, especially since we still can't see our current profile db in the fitting screen. I'd be ok with other penalties though, like strafe speed penalties for scouts etc, if deemed needed. But to be honest, if we make it easier for all suits to use dampeners effectively, nerf scout scanrange, and remove directional arrows from the radar I think this is already a lot of stuff that will make the life of scouts much harder even without further penalties to HP modules. Assault / Logi / Sentinel / Scout // @JebusMcKing
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 152	Posted - 2014.11.09 17:54:00 - [180] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Regarding scan falloff... Do you realize that my suggestion is a compromise that creates a "fake" scan falloff system using the current mechanics?

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4741	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:25:00 - [181] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. how would this discourage the cal scout from assault bricking their shields? Other'n that, the idea is AMAZING EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 110	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:37:00 - [182] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. how would this discourage the cal scout from assault bricking their shields? Other'n that, the idea is AMAZING CA Scout running straight complex shields has roughly the same HP as a CA Assault with no HP modules.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4742	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:47:00 - [183] - Quote calscout can avoid hit detection via strafe shenanigans, just like every other scout can. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 110	Posted - 2014.11.09 19:57:00 - [184] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: calscout can avoid hit detection via strafe shenanigans, just like every other scout can. Agreed. So do we nerf Scouts to fix strafe mechanics or fix strafe mechanics to fix strafe mechanics?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4766	Posted - 2014.11.09 20:22:00 - [185] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: calscout can avoid hit detection via strafe shenanigans, just like every other scout can. Agreed. So do we nerf Scouts to fix strafe mechanics or fix strafe mechanics to fix strafe mechanics? Note: Assaults can wiggle-wiggle on par with the best of wiggling Scouts. Yup. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 84	Posted - 2014.11.10 03:03:00 - [186] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: I came up with an idea. One of the problems with scouts is that their ewar is so good, and it is always on. I made a post about how I disliked the idea of cloak fields reducing scan range as it cancels out your ewar skills and mods to have it active. THis means you're less likely to use them, and more likely to brick out instead of use things they get bonuses to. What if instead things went like this: 1. Take scout's base ewar range to 10m, and increase their profile to 40db. 2. Add a multiplier to scanning range while cloaked, and add a minimum cloak duration (maybe 3 seconds). 3. (optional) Increase cloak dampening by 5% per tier (or add +1% cloak field dampening per level of the cloak field skill) This gives scouts 2 modes. Combat ready with relatively poor ewar, and defenseless, high ewar mode. You can cloak up to gather information, but to engage an enemy you loose ewar effectiveness. A minimum cloak duration prevents quick activation so you can't just get quick pulses of intel, and it encourages use of better cloak fields for scouting. You can possibly scale ewar range bonus to equipment tier, or add different types of cloaks with different modifiers to duration, range, dampening, cooldown etc. In short, scouts will be encouraged to use their scout cloak field bonus. They can provide intel and be stealthy (what scouts want) but only temporarily. Any scout that wants to be a stealthy brawler can try, but they won't have the massive ewar stats while doing it. I've seen no comments on this idea. I really want to try to flesh this out as it seems like a good solution to the scout problem that doesn't involve loads of ewar changes, and keeps to the idea of encourageing use of certain things, rather than discouraging use of things. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 22	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:18:00 - [187] - Quote It probably hasn't been addressed as it forces cloaks rather than leaves them as an option. That is messed up in so many ways... Only having ewar while cloaked would also force a pretty hefty nerf on the cloaking field themselves as, currently, you'd be able to cloak and regain your vision so often that losing it would be temporary at best. Plus, it means that cloakers have no incentive to do move around while uncloaked and full scans means they'll be able to see if it is safe to decloak. Sure, they will lose a bit of time hoping from cover to cover in order to keep up the cloak time they need to pounce/flee as necessary but the best you could hope for is the old advantage with a map travel time of a Logistics suit. Also doesn't solve the whole "Killing people before the invisibility wears off" thing since they'd never want to be visible and could do all of their repositioning whilst invisible.... Which is why cloaked shotgun/nova knife is currently so ridiculous...
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1574	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:41:00 - [188] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: It probably hasn't been addressed as it forces cloaks rather than leaves them as an option. That is messed up in so many ways... Only having ewar while cloaked would also force a pretty hefty nerf on the cloaking field themselves as, currently, you'd be able to cloak and regain your vision so often that losing it would be temporary at best. Plus, it means that cloakers have no incentive to do move around while uncloaked and full scans means they'll be able to see if it is safe to decloak. Sure, they will lose a bit of time hoping from cover to cover in order to keep up the cloak time they need to pounce/flee as necessary but the best you could hope for is the old advantage with a map travel time of a Logistics suit. Also doesn't solve the whole "Killing people before the invisibility wears off" thing since they'd never want to be visible and could do all of their repositioning whilst invisible.... Which is why cloaked shotgun/nova knife is currently so ridiculous... You got a second equipment slot for the cloak specifically. It should be something that is role defining if you have a second equipment slot just for it, and a 75% fitting cost reduction towards it. Right now, electronic warfare on scouts is ridiculous because they have access to it at all times - if it was forced to be a choice for say tactical infiltration so you pick out and assassinate specific targets, that would be good, because scouts would no longer be the "light assault" murdermachines that people currently play them as. You are conflating the issues with decloak delay, with overall scout balance. Scouts should not be desireable to play as 'light assaults' when decloaked they should really feel the disadvantages of non-bonused weapons or high hp totals. With cloak changes in this manner you make a choice between combat or ewar, a choice scouts don't currently make, they get both combat ability and ewar. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 22	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:59:00 - [189] - Quote If the slot were truly dedicated to cloaks then I would be arbitrarily forced to use it. As I choose not use it and, thanks to ewar, am not being arbitrarily punished for it my quality of life is improved. Scouts currently lose 85% of their scan range while cloaked, meaning that them not being able to be seen also means they no longer see around walls. When they are, themselves, extremely difficult to find they lose the ability to plan ahead as they must now hope they are safe when they decloak. Additionally, they now have to be concerned about someone outside of their field of vision covering whomever it is they are trying to murder as they cannot see anywhere else exclusively whilst cloaked. As for the conflating of problems, the aforementioned range reduction was designed to lessen the insta-kill cloaking problem. The proposal to do the exact opposite and make cloaked scouts the only ones good at finding and murdering people would compound the problem and is therefore a very big part of the discussion that needs addressing. As only cloaked scouts will get ewar and ewar is essential to compensating for the difference in hp, dropsuit bonus. Do also keep in mind that Caldari and Amarr scouts would lose their race bonus if not cloaked. When it comes to choice, do you really want people's options to be "Scout with cloak or something else?" Because making cloaks mandatory would turn non-cloaked scouts into Assaults whom miss out on their race bonuses and lose half of their health. If you really want scout speed put on a few kinetics and bask in how fast you are while still having health.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 85	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:59:00 - [190] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: It probably hasn't been addressed as it forces cloaks rather than leaves them as an option. That is messed up in so many ways... Only having ewar while cloaked would also force a pretty hefty nerf on the cloaking field themselves as, currently, you'd be able to cloak and regain your vision so often that losing it would be temporary at best. Plus, it means that cloakers have no incentive to do move around while uncloaked and full scans means they'll be able to see if it is safe to decloak. Sure, they will lose a bit of time hoping from cover to cover in order to keep up the cloak time they need to pounce/flee as necessary but the best you could hope for is the old advantage with a map travel time of a Logistics suit. Also doesn't solve the whole "Killing people before the invisibility wears off" thing since they'd never want to be visible and could do all of their repositioning whilst invisible.... Which is why cloaked shotgun/nova knife is currently so ridiculous... As it stands, scouts can fight so effectively that they don't need cloak. They are entirely effective because they have the ability to see the battlefield clearly while engaging the enemy. Cloak now incentivizes scouts to use it as little as possible as their ewar is their greatest asset, and using it to hide in their blind spot is more effective than hoping to not see a shimmer. It is used as a defense tool for running away/hiding, or as an assaulting tool to run strait at an enemy. My proposal is aimed at making it for defense/intel gathering, which is ideally the scout's roll. Essentially I want to make scouts be scouts. Scouts have INSANELY powerful ewar, and bonuses, and they arguably need these bonuses in order to make the role distinct and viable. However, I believe that putting a limiter on their ability will be the best way to let scouts be fun and different. The cloak is the most convenient way to do it as it only involves changing a few parameters. If cloak duration/recharge is too powerful, then those numbers can be changed (10/20/30 seconds, +50% recharge time, etc). The specific numbers are less important than the idea itself, and if you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 240	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:13:00 - [191] - Quote cloak is used more as an assault tool then anything else now lol. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1575	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:19:00 - [192] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: If the slot were truly dedicated to cloaks then I would be arbitrarily forced to use it. As I choose not use it and, thanks to ewar, am not being arbitrarily punished for it my quality of life is improved. I was around when the cloak was first brought up. Scouts did not want to lose their nanite injectors or active scanners (for spin scanning) just for a cloaking device, they demanded a second equipment slot. You choose not to use a cloak on your scout because your scout is perfectly overpowered without it - you do not have to make a choice between combat ability and ewar wallhacks that is the problem - meaningfully addressing this would take away the ewar wallhacks while scouts are in combat mode and return the crazy ewar abilities only while in the non-combat cloak mode. Prinny Waters wrote: Scouts currently lose 85% of their scan range while cloaked, meaning that them not being able to be seen also means they no longer see around walls. When they are, themselves, extremely difficult to find they lose the ability to plan ahead as they must now hope they are safe when they decloak. Additionally, they now have to be concerned about someone outside of their field of vision covering whomever it is they are trying to murder as they cannot see anywhere else exclusively whilst cloaked. This is not a meaningful disadvantage to scouts. They can get by without cloaks due to powerful ewar, in short if you are 'good' a cloak is a disadvantage to you, rather than being something the defines the role. A cloak hurts more than it helps at high skill levels. What Ceej's proposed change would do is force scouts to make a plan, attempt to execute, and then fade once executed so they can re-evaluate engagement options rather than being able to perform re-evaluations in the middle of combat. Prinny Waters wrote: As for the conflating of problems, the aforementioned range reduction was designed to lessen the insta-kill cloaking problem. The proposal to do the exact opposite and make cloaked scouts the only ones good at finding and murdering people would compound the problem and is therefore a very big part of the discussion that needs addressing. As only cloaked scouts will get ewar and ewar is essential to compensating for the difference in hp, dropsuit bonus. Do also keep in mind that Caldari and Amarr scouts would lose their race bonus if not cloaked. No, it wasn't it was to make scouts have a deficit, the delay before firing (which is being increased) is the attempted fix for 'insta-kill cloaking'. A scout should be able to find and murder people - they should be forced to re-evaluate after that single target. The could certainly be a minimum duration of cloaked time necessary before you get the ewar bonuses. In regards to 'taking away bonuses', no one needs the ability to see 40-70m+ with high precision at all times that is blatantly overpowered, it is compounded by allowing everyone in your squad to also see these people. As soon as spin scanning was fixed everyone jumped over to scouts (in particular the cal scout). Prinny Waters wrote: When it comes to choice, do you really want people's options to be "Scout with cloak or something else?" Because making cloaks mandatory would turn non-cloaked scouts into Assaults whom miss out on their race bonuses and lose half of their health. If you really want scout speed put on a few kinetics and bask in how fast you are while still having health THATS THE **ING POINT. People shouldn't be playing scouts as light assaults. They should be scouts who take targets of opportunity when available. Assaults should be the main "I want to ing shoot people" platform. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 22	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:22:00 - [193] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: As it stands, scouts can fight so effectively that they don't need cloak. They are entirely effective because they have the ability to see the battlefield clearly while engaging the enemy. Cloak now incentivizes scouts to use it as little as possible as their ewar is their greatest asset, and using it to hide in their blind spot is more effective than hoping to not see a shimmer. It is used as a defense tool for running away/hiding, or as an assaulting tool to run strait at an enemy. My proposal is aimed at making it for defense/intel gathering, which is ideally the scout's roll. Essentially I want to make scouts be scouts. Scouts have INSANELY powerful ewar, and bonuses, and they arguably need these bonuses in order to make the role distinct and viable. However, I believe that putting a limiter on their ability will be the best way to let scouts be fun and different. The cloak is the most convenient way to do it as it only involves changing a few parameters. If cloak duration.recharge is too powerful, then those numbers can be changed (10/20/30 seconds, +50% recharge time, etc). The specific numbers are less important than the idea itself, and if you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it. I can definitely agree that the core of the problem is that scouts get the best ewar by far and that, if they have been on Dust long enough to afford the scout ranks, arbitrarily ignore the fitting cost of a cloak. Unfortunately, buffing cloaking fields to add scan range only worsens the problem as it adds incentive to cloaking yet does nothing to solve the issue of them being undetectable by non-scouts or able to murder everyone. As I don't see CCP having the ability to limit this blindness only to scouts who equip cloaks the end result will basically be the death of non-cloaked scouts, presumably with a large portion swapping to cloaking while the rest decide whether or not Dust still appeals to them in cloak-town. If you won't accept me simply backing Rattati's proposed changes or my proposal to make pure Logistic suits the best at finding non-scouts then here is another idea: make cloaking flare up your profile instead of decreasing it while also toning down how much they reduce the cloak's fitting cost. Increasing profile size on cloaks would leave non-cloaked scouts relatively viable, as the range and precision mods necessary for ewar to give a consistent edge would still require them to be frail, while asking cloakers a question; are you willing to have empty slots on your suit in exchange for your invisibility? Keep in mind that a scanned cloaker isn't truly cloaked anymore. If we assume Rattati's range increase will go through, we can safely assume that more than just scout suits will start considering running ewar mods. This means that nonscouts would find them if they opt not to run dampeners, typically it would not be far enough out to actually gun them down with ease but it would give them a chance to fight after the scout has already closed most of the distance, meaning that the close range scout has range advantage while the other suit has health advantage. Additionally, making cloaked suits have a hefty fitting price for scouts, as opposed to proto scouts being able to just put on the basic one without much consequence, we make it so that cloakers have to leave slots empty if they wish to dedicate themselves to stealth. If they don't want to light up like a christmas tree they have to stack dampeners, but if they put all their stuff into dampeners they won't have the fitting to both be immune to scanners and have a proto weapon, meaning the second they turn on cloak any nearby enemy scout knows it is meal time... Choice, consequence, yadda yadda. Two people posted since I started typing this so gimme a sec to adjust.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 240	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:26:00 - [194] - Quote The delay is pointless because you can't see a scout anyway so they just decloak .33 or what ever sooner it makes no difference I stalk people without the cloak. The only way to change insta blaping is to lower a scouts dps or breaking the class because they are meant to be sneaky. You can't expect people to watch there backs 24/7 it would bring them to a stand still so the only thing that is left is increasing the time it takes to kill enough to give them a chance to react. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1575	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:56:00 - [195] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: words. You're looking at this and going "they want to buff cloaks! that's crazy" when you should be going "They want to nerf ewar, and then use cloaks to define the scouts role" I can understand why you wouldn't want ewar changed or it made so you 'have' to fit a cloak, but currently ewar is the problem (that's why we have this thread!). If scouts had 'normal' ewar capabilities while uncloaked, people wouldn't prefer them over the suits that are meant to be 'in the fight', because honestly they'd be 'bad' at it with their 'low' hp and somewhat deterministic slot layouts. They would then have the option and incentive to not only fit cloaks, but to fit good cloaks in order to play towards their ewar role. Shouting about how you don't want to feel forced to fit cloaks is like listening to a logi complain that they don't want to feel forced to use equipment, they'd rather use that extra fitting to be better at murdering people instead. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 22	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:59:00 - [196] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I was around when the cloak was first brought up. Scouts did not want to lose their nanite injectors or active scanners (for spin scanning) just for a cloaking device, they demanded a second equipment slot. You choose not to use a cloak on your scout because your scout is perfectly overpowered without it - you do not have to make a choice between combat ability and ewar wallhacks that is the problem - meaningfully addressing this would take away the ewar wallhacks while scouts are in combat mode and return the crazy ewar abilities only while in the non-combat cloak mode. How do you not consider the ability to survive bullets separate from my combat ability? I can deal as much damage as I want and still fail to drop a person because they applied a bullet to my face and all those range modules don't protect me. If I were more difficult to spot than the other suits an assault tries to murder I would see your point but, without something making me harder to spot, the time advantage I get by knowing where to point my gun ought to be compared to the time advantage my opponent gets for requiring more bullets to die. Whether or not those two are currently balanced is something I can't tell as this game bases balance on full 5 skilled veterans and my only 5's are in passive abilities. Get Rattati the magical baddass to weigh in on that if you want to know if scouts without cloaks are legitimately a problem. MINA Longstrike wrote: This is not a meaningful disadvantage to scouts. They can get by without cloaks due to powerful ewar, in short if you are 'good' a cloak is a disadvantage to you, rather than being something the defines the role. A cloak hurts more than it helps at high skill levels. What Ceej's proposed change would do is force scouts to make a plan, attempt to execute, and then fade once executed so they can re-evaluate engagement options rather than being able to perform re-evaluations in the middle of combat. I do not agree that being blind while invisible is meaningless. If you don't agree with that there's nothing for me to say as there isn't much to be added; you either value being able to see through walls or you don't. MINA Longstrike wrote: No, it wasn't it was to make scouts have a deficit, the delay before firing (which is being increased) is the attempted fix for 'insta-kill cloaking'. A scout should be able to find and murder people - they should be forced to re-evaluate after that single target. The could certainly be a minimum duration of cloaked time necessary before you get the ewar bonuses. In regards to 'taking away bonuses', no one needs the ability to see 40-70m+ with high precision at all times that is blatantly overpowered, it is compounded by allowing everyone in your squad to also see these people. As soon as spin scanning was fixed everyone jumped over to scouts (in particular the cal scout). They attempted to nerf scout cloaking in two ways. The cloak delay was insufficient; the range reduction is debatable. If scouts lose ewar unless they cloak then logistic suits and assault suits will do every single thing better than a scout without cloak. If they must cloak to acquire ewar and, upon cloaking, receive the exact same ewar they do now then cloaked scouts can just travel slower to let the cloak refresh and lose nothing but time. They will still be able to find everyone, they will still be just as lethal as before, they will still be the hardest suits to scan. As for taking away bonuses, if the suit has less health than an assault, scans just as poorly as an assault, no bonuses for its race, and has no unique weapon types or slots, how is it not just a weaker assault suit? MINA Longstrike wrote: THATS THE **ING POINT. People shouldn't be playing scouts as light assaults. They should be scouts who take targets of opportunity when available. Assaults should be the main "I want to **ing shoot people" platform. Your solution to scout light is for cloaked scouts to be unchanged while uncloaked lose everything. Not a solution mate. Finally, can I get some civility for my mechanics discussions? Swearing at me really doesn't help make your point.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 86	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:06:00 - [197] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: As it stands, scouts can fight so effectively that they don't need cloak. They are entirely effective because they have the ability to see the battlefield clearly while engaging the enemy. Cloak now incentivizes scouts to use it as little as possible as their ewar is their greatest asset, and using it to hide in their blind spot is more effective than hoping to not see a shimmer. It is used as a defense tool for running away/hiding, or as an assaulting tool to run strait at an enemy. My proposal is aimed at making it for defense/intel gathering, which is ideally the scout's roll. Essentially I want to make scouts be scouts. Scouts have INSANELY powerful ewar, and bonuses, and they arguably need these bonuses in order to make the role distinct and viable. However, I believe that putting a limiter on their ability will be the best way to let scouts be fun and different. The cloak is the most convenient way to do it as it only involves changing a few parameters. If cloak duration.recharge is too powerful, then those numbers can be changed (10/20/30 seconds, +50% recharge time, etc). The specific numbers are less important than the idea itself, and if you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it. I can definitely agree that the core of the problem is that scouts get the best ewar by far and that, if they have been on Dust long enough to afford the scout ranks, arbitrarily ignore the fitting cost of a cloak. Unfortunately, buffing cloaking fields to add scan range only worsens the problem as it adds incentive to cloaking yet does nothing to solve the issue of them being undetectable by non-scouts or able to murder everyone. As I don't see CCP having the ability to limit this blindness only to scouts who equip cloaks the end result will basically be the death of non-cloaked scouts, presumably with a large portion swapping to cloaking while the rest decide whether or not Dust still appeals to them in cloak-town. If you won't accept me simply backing Rattati's proposed changes or my proposal to make pure Logistic suits the best at finding non-scouts then here is another idea: make cloaking flare up your profile instead of decreasing it while also toning down how much they reduce the cloak's fitting cost. Increasing profile size on cloaks would leave non-cloaked scouts relatively viable, as the range and precision mods necessary for ewar to give a consistent edge would still require them to be frail, while asking cloakers a question; are you willing to have empty slots on your suit in exchange for your invisibility? Keep in mind that a scanned cloaker isn't truly cloaked anymore. If we assume Rattati's range increase will go through, we can safely assume that more than just scout suits will start considering running ewar mods. This means that nonscouts would find them if they opt not to run dampeners, typically it would not be far enough out to actually gun them down with ease but it would give them a chance to fight after the scout has already closed most of the distance, meaning that the close range scout has range advantage while the other suit has health advantage. Additionally, making cloaked suits have a hefty fitting price for scouts, as opposed to proto scouts being able to just put on the basic one without much consequence, we make it so that cloakers have to leave slots empty if they wish to dedicate themselves to stealth. If they don't want to light up like a christmas tree they have to stack dampeners, but if they put all their stuff into dampeners they won't have the fitting to both be immune to scanners and have a proto weapon, meaning the second they turn on cloak any nearby enemy scout knows it is meal time... Choice, consequence, yadda yadda. Two people posted since I started typing this so gimme a sec to adjust. I have a proto scout with all proto mods including the cloak field, and have 20cpu and 26pg to spare. I can fit a cloak comfortably on all my scouts except the PLC scout. (4 ewar mods and PLC destroys my CPU even with max fitting skills.) Even then, I can fit an advanced cloak on any suit. It's entirely doable. Maybe you need to tone down your armor plates 1. I said increase the scouts profile to 40db. 5 higher than now. 2. I said decrease the range to 10m. This means logis, with their 15m range will have the highest range, and second highest scanning. Scouts can hide by putting on mods, or cloaking. 2 Precision amps on a logi would be powerful, and some range would allow them to see scouts who aren't committed to stealth. The decloak delay is being changed to 1 sec on Tuesday. If that is not enough, then it can go higher. This isn't the end all be all fix by just changing cloak. Amarr scout skill would need to be toned down a tad, and the duvolle focused scanner would need to go up by 1 or 2 DB to account for the ewar changes (unless we improve cloak dampening by 5% as suggested) Cal and Amarr scouts will still have bonuses that apply, but a cloak is needed to maximize them. Assault scouts can still fight, but they trade off HP and slots for better ewar (to a lesser degree than now). However, back to the topic at hand. The premise is to make the Cloak Field a piece of equipment that scouts use to gain good ewar, but since it has a timer, and you can't fight while cloaked, it can be tuned to limit scouts so they aren't overpowered. I think this is the direction we should go with this, rather than putting penalties on fitting armor, or the current cloak penalty that discourages it's use. If they wanna buff ewar range on other suits, fine. Adjusting scan profiles is fine. Fixing scanners, also fine (not a fan of scanning loosing direction indicators as it kinda defeats the point of using that information to act efficiently as you can't tell when an enemy is distracted unless you were looking at them). I want to see ewar be good, and scouts be fun and balanced. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 240	Posted - 2014.11.10 06:28:00 - [198] - Quote I don't think anyone has a problem with uncloaked sidearms or even just uncloaked scouts yet almost all of changes proposed will nerf them maybe out of the game because of a unwillingness to address the problem directly. In fact I don't think most of the people that have post know anything about scouts apart from they killed me and I didn't know they were there. I don't even use the cloak and I am upset by what they have done to it because I would like to be able to. I didn't use it much before because I was balancing myself, but now I don't want to use the piece of poo let alone forced to use the equipment you fools broke. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 10981	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:22:00 - [199] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA [...] You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around. Any thoughts on this compromise to scanning falloff, Rattati? We are evaluating this technically as we speak. Dynamic fallout is impossible, there may be hope for this "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1847	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:37:00 - [200] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA [...] You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around. Any thoughts on this compromise to scanning falloff, Rattati? We are evaluating this technically as we speak. Dynamic fallout is impossible, there may be hope for this MMMMmmmmmmmmmm good read, will read again. +1

Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1847	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:38:00 - [201] - Quote Haerr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA [...] You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around. Any thoughts on this compromise to scanning falloff, Rattati? We are evaluating this technically as we speak. Dynamic fallout is impossible, there may be hope for this MMMMmmmmmmmmmm good read, will read again. +1 Just read it again, still a good read, will read again. (Trying to find more posts to +1)
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 22	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:39:00 - [202] - Quote To CeeJ Mantis My apologies, I did not go back to read the post against as my focus was on tying ewar to cloaking. I don't really have an opinion on the changes to profile/scan you recommended as I don't know the current ewar formulas well enough. For scan range, fifteen is kind of weak and ten renders ewar modules too investment heavy to be competitive for non-scouts. With a 5 in cal scout and the range skill that ten gets bumped up to 22.5m, one complex range modifier bringing it up to ~32.6 for a relatively solid build. Scans are at their strongest in urban environments where your main concern is turning a corner and dying before getting the chance to run; thirty meters ought to work fine for a Cal scout but I'm not sure anyone else would be so keen on getting range modules. Since everyone else only gets 21 meters for one range modifier it becomes dubious as to whether or not they will have time to respond before shotgun/HMG annihilation, especially if you need one or more precision modules to matter. I am definitely advocating 15 meters as the minimum on all suits, I'd recommend 17.5 on Scouts to give them a slight edge (albeit at the cost of making the number crunch even more of a ***...) and Logistics at 20. Cal scout maxes at 57 before factoring in stacking penalty, Logistics can find Heavies with ease, and anyone can slap on one range and one precision to find lazy scouts at 32 meters or better. That ought to be enough to keep them out of insta-death range and, if not, they can add another range as the situation demands. For the rest of the stuff discussed, I said scouts ought to sacrifice for their cloaks mate, not that they did. Making it so they make a full fit if they wanted a decent cloak would give them a penalty bigger than an equipment slot for their escape device/distance closer/dampener/ambush preventer. Might even be possible to leave uncloaked scouts alone.... Is there some new announcement I am missing? Not seeing anything about a full second delay on the announcement/events section. To Blueprint for Murder Sorry to not respond sooner, getting distracted by monologues. I can't really say I have much hope as I don't see there being a serious possibility of cloaks being hard to fit. Since the only difference between a cloaked and uncloaked scout is that one equipment slot... Yeah, not looking good. The only real assurance I have is that Rattati is a statistician and will no doubt factor in scouts without cloaks when making these changes. It might take a second or third patch for uncloaked scouts to get the kind of attention currently devoted to cloaked ones but statistics are math and math is legit. ** will get done, you can count on that. General satement Anyone else feel cloaking as a method of dampening feels backwards? Ewar is the only true counter to cloaking, as relying on the shimmer only works if you don't have anything messing with your vision (for example, I wear contacts which impair my vision when worn long enough) and assumes that the scout is close enough for said shimmer to matter... Which is somewhat regularly close enough for shotgun sprinting...
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 641	Posted - 2014.11.10 07:57:00 - [203] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: IDEA [...] You created a secondary 60m scanning ring for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power? first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision second ring:10m 100% scanning precision third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around. Any thoughts on this compromise to scanning falloff, Rattati? We are evaluating this technically as we speak. Dynamic fallout is impossible, there may be hope for this I thought of this and mentioned it as well earlier in here. It made sense that if they could do it for vehicles then they could create artificial falloff by having multiple scan ranges of various strengths. I disagree with keeping the directional arrows on scans though. They have cloaks to help them move from cover to cover. The arrows are being used for combat currently. Also scouts have increased combat effectiveness over everything simply because they see everything, are invisible to everything, are faster than everything, have the same dps output as everything. Their low hp is grossly offset by their rediculous hit box sizes and cloaks. They have every advantage in combat except for hp.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 240	Posted - 2014.11.10 08:03:00 - [204] - Quote Absolutely put and end to pre-fireing scouts by taking away the directional arrow. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3549	Posted - 2014.11.10 11:26:00 - [205] - Quote I'm probably a little late to the party so forgive me if this has been discussed to death already or everything has already been written in stone. Anywho I'm glad eWAR is being shook up again, it's about time everyone got involved in this Meta. Firstly passive scanning, scouts simply have to good a passive scanning level and heavies are too easy to spot. - A Heavy with Lvl 5 dampening should slip under the radar of a Medium with Lvl 3 scanning (no mods) - A Medium with Lvl 5 dampening should slip under the radar of a Light with Lvl 3 scanning (no mods) - A Scout with Lvl 5 dampening and Lvl 5 Scout specialisation should comfortably avoid scanning from other suits (no mods) - A scout with Lvl 5 dampening and Lvl 5 Scout specialisation should be detectable by a medium suit with Lvl 5 Scanning +1 Pro Prescision enhancer -A Scout with Lvl 5 dampening and Lvl 5 Scout specialisation should be detectable by a heavy suit with Lvl 5 Scanning +2 Pro Presision Enhancer This way you encourage everyone to run some form of eWAR module. Scout eWAR only becomes beneficial if you are prepared to sacrifice eHP slots. Furthermore medium and heavy suits are more likely to run at least 1 dampener in an attempt to avoid each others scans. - Passive Scans should not show player orientation -Passive Scans should either -- not show a chevron above the players head, or -- update in set intervals based on the suit size This stops passive scanning being as powerful as active scanning, passive scanning becomes less of a full on Intel sweep and more of a battlefield overview. Active scanning should be changed to become more risky, yet more rewarding for constant use. - All active scanners change from a snapshot scan to a focused scan. - All active scanners change their tag time value to 0seconds (easily done with hotfix) Doing this turns active scanners into magic torches, as long as it is shining on a player, that player will be tagged on your teams radar. However if you loose their position they instantly disappear. This stops scannerinas since doing that only gives another version of the passive scan, that lets enemies know they are being scanned. Different variants will then interchange range, FOV and presiscion. In general the basic variant should be equilant to a medium suit with an additional pro presision mod. While wider FOV variants have less and narrower FOV variants have more. Ok that's everything I think. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Avallo Kantor SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 424	Posted - 2014.11.10 14:37:00 - [206] - Quote Is it possible to give suits a "second" scan profile? The first scan profile (100%) shows just the dot without the directional arrow. The second scan profile (120% maybe?) shows the directional arrow as well. This allows focused scanning suits to have better scanning than others, if they focus out their fitting to scans, and also give an advantage to going fully into high level scanners / mods.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11576	Posted - 2014.11.10 15:00:00 - [207] - Quote Most of this looks good, i like the proposed changes to the profiles of all the suits, and I like the normalization of scan radii idea to make range amps useful for all. I'm not sure how I feel about removing direction arrows to the minimap, but minor. I thought scanners were fine before the 1.9 changes As an assault with max precision and dampening, I don't like the idea of tanking mods adding to my profile because I fear using HP mods will negate my skill investments, and that an assault shouldn't be punished for using HP mods beyond the existing penalties, but hopefully the profile debuffs will be minor for these modules. Also, will ferroscale and reactive plates also have the debuff? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 23	Posted - 2014.11.10 15:31:00 - [208] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Most of this looks good, i like the proposed changes to the profiles of all the suits, and I like the normalization of scan radii idea to make range amps useful for all. I'm not sure how I feel about removing direction arrows to the minimap, but minor. I thought scanners were fine before the 1.9 changes As an assault with max precision and dampening, I don't like the idea of tanking mods adding to my profile because I fear using HP mods will negate my skill investments, and that an assault shouldn't be punished for using HP mods beyond the existing penalties, but hopefully the profile debuffs will be minor for these modules. Also, will ferroscale and reactive plates also have the debuff? I haven't seen anything definitive about ferroscale or reactive plates ignoring the profile increase but, if this thread is any indication, most people support them being without penalty. As for the profile increase on hp modules, I don't think it will negatively impact assault suits too much because scouts and Gallente Logi scanners are probably still going to require heavy dampening to avoid, meaning you probably won't have too much room for hp if that is your goal and are unlikely to be able to avoid being scanned if they go full force regardless. Other assaults and logistic suits spotting you will become a concern, yes, but anyone wanting to participate in ewar is going to equip at least one range module if they want to turn corners without fear of being in HMG kil lrange. Anyone willing to fit a dampener to ignore lazy assault/logistics should be even footing. If heavy dampening becomes the meta, though, you'll be running a single complex module to my four militia and probably come out ahead due to the profile skill. Just throwing that out there. We should totally get a Quafe soda mascot hologram.
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 86	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:11:00 - [209] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: To CeeJ Mantis My apologies, I did not go back to read the post against as my focus was on tying ewar to cloaking. I don't really have an opinion on the changes to profile/scan you recommended as I don't know the current ewar formulas well enough. For scan range, fifteen is kind of weak and ten renders ewar modules too investment heavy to be competitive for non-scouts. With a 5 in cal scout and the range skill that ten gets bumped up to 22.5m, one complex range modifier bringing it up to ~32.6 for a relatively solid build. Scans are at their strongest in urban environments where your main concern is turning a corner and dying before getting the chance to run; thirty meters ought to work fine for a Cal scout but I'm not sure anyone else would be so keen on getting range modules. Since everyone else only gets 21 meters for one range modifier it becomes dubious as to whether or not they will have time to respond before shotgun/HMG annihilation, especially if you need one or more precision modules to matter. I am definitely advocating 15 meters as the minimum on all suits, I'd recommend 17.5 on Scouts to give them a slight edge (albeit at the cost of making the number crunch even more of a *****...) and Logistics at 20. Cal scout maxes at 57 before factoring in stacking penalty, Logistics can find Heavies with ease, and anyone can slap on one range and one precision to find lazy scouts at 32 meters or better. That ought to be enough to keep them out of insta-death range and, if not, they can add another range as the situation demands. For the rest of the stuff discussed, I said scouts ought to sacrifice for their cloaks mate, not that they did. Making it so they make a full fit if they wanted a decent cloak would give them a penalty bigger than an equipment slot for their escape device/distance closer/dampener/ambush preventer. Might even be possible to leave uncloaked scouts alone.... Is there some new announcement I am missing? Not seeing anything about a full second delay on the announcement/events section. General satement Anyone else feel cloaking as a method of dampening feels backwards? Ewar is the only true counter to cloaking, as relying on the shimmer only works if you don't have anything messing with your vision (for example, I wear contacts which impair my vision when worn long enough) and assumes that the scout is close enough for said shimmer to matter... Which is somewhat regularly close enough for shotgun sprinting... Rattati mentioned it in his post about redoing the balance hotfix. At least the past about decloak delay being increased. As far as scouts and cloaks go, I feel that currently their ability to scan rooms is too good to be always active. However, if scouts can't scan things well then, then their inherent stealth is not enough to define their roll. I.really.do think that activating a "scouting mode" that gives you max ewar is a good way to solve this issue. You can cloak when you arrive at an area. This allows you to assess your situation and provide intel for your squad.when the time is right, you can make your move on a weakened/vulnerable/high priority target. Doing so makes you vulnerable though, so you might only wanna take on one or two targets before falling back to reassess the situation. We're there a 3 second minimum cloak duration, then you'd have to commit to that vulnerability to gain your excellent benefits Essentially, this came from an analysis of what "scout-like" rolls in other games do. They tend to be fast, lightly armored, and provide intel, with limited direct combat ability, but are very capable of taking out targets from a distance, or up close (snipers/knifers). I don't think scouts should be so restricted, but a toggled ability that allows them to embody the scouting aspects of scouts, while maintaining their vulnerability, but allows their skills to be used for their assassination of weak targets is a great way to encourage scouts to fit their roll on the battlefield. Rattati mentioned how Heavies need more HMG heat buildup as that would moderate their abilities so they ate less good in some situations. I think that my cloak field based proposal the easiest way to give scouts the tools they need for their roll, while providing a weakness they currently lack. Skilled scouts can adapt quickly, and ones who rely too heavily on the insane advantages of their class's strength to get by will fall away to a roll more suited to them, or better yet, learn to be better players. This of course assumes that the decloak delay is long enough to stop current cloak abuse, but that needs to be addressed regardless of whether or not this plan is implemented. With my provided numbers, Logistics will have enough range to do passive ewar effectively, and active scanners will be encouraged for those who want to be able to have ewar, and combat prowess. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 240	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:18:00 - [210] - Quote I assure you the delay is not enough it could be 3 seconds and it still wouldn't matter you can't see the scout so combat starts when he chooses and you will be dead before you can react. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13162	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:22:00 - [211] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm going to throw one final design that I have had evaluated. It is possible to penalize one class over the other. So we can do if scout then worse plate penalty for example. Another thing is that we are able to focus the penalty on strafing specifically. So the idea would be to penalize forward movement less on "normal plates", but severely decrease strafe speed, and more on the scout than other classes. Reactives and ferros would not incur these hard penalties. This would mean Amarr Sentinels become very unwieldy, bastions like they were supposed to be, but weak to being headshotted at range, and brick tanked scouts will always have speed less than equal ehp assaults. Let the fireworks begin. Make a new stat on all suits called mass. Speed/agility would be derived from mass. Light suits have low mass, heavies high mass. Plates would add a fixed amount of mass to the suits (except feroscale). This would heavily penalize the movement of low mass suits and less so on heavy frames (as a relative percent change). Likewise shield extenders would increase signature profile. Add a feroscale analogue for shield extenders without the penalty. This would more closely follow EVE. Even if not directly added to the stats, that's exactly how I intend to design the penalties, and share the calculations. Interesting, so heavies are more likely to fit complex plates, mediums advanced and scouts basic? Ferroscale don't really come into that equation because they don't have any penalty, and reactives have a 1% penalty so lol. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 86	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:23:00 - [212] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: I assure you the delay is not enough it could be 3 seconds and it still wouldn't matter you can't see the scout so combat starts when he chooses and you will be dead before you can react. So then how would you fix the issue? It's easy to tell people that they ate wrong. Let's instead try to solve this problem, or if you believe it cannot be solved, explain why. Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Prinny Waters Immortal Guides 23	Posted - 2014.11.10 16:38:00 - [213] - Quote A form of equipment which gives the user a sudden and drastic increase to their ewar range at the expense of having to have it out in order to benefit it (removing their ability to fight) is pretty damn sweet. That same module also turning them invisible? Nope, not the answer, cloaks already powerful enough from just making it safer to travel. If the proposed delay increase brings their insta-kill potential down enough then they're still going to be viable even if they keep their current ewar blindness while cloaked. Separate this active ewar equipment from cloaking fields and you have a pretty solid solution. Other suits still ought to be able to use it, as limiting it to scouts serves only to reinforce scout-only ewar, but the incentive for scouts to use it would be that, as it is an upgrade to your scan range rather than a unique type of scan, you would be using your own precision ranking. Since scouts are the uncontested kings of precision they would still be numero uno at ewar because even if a Logi can get a decent scan range/precision going on there are still going to be scouts they can't find (and, unlike an active scanner, passive scanning wouldn't let you know you failed to find them) that a Cal scout could find. Not sure if the range enhancing equipment (someone think of a witty way to include the word Qaufe in its name for me please) should come at the expense of raising your profile to heavy levels to compensate for all that squad vision but I'm sure once everyone gets past trying out the new thing we'll be able to fine tune it. It is definitely too powerful to be without cost but only time will tell if losing a gun/rep tool if you wanted to keep it up during a firefight was a good or bad trade. Huh... Realized they would be a neat way to add squad-only scanners.... We should totally get a Quafe soda mascot hologram.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1611	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:26:00 - [214] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile. so armor gets double kicked in the ballz? armor tank already gives up tank/slots for dampening...
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2202	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:43:00 - [215] - Quote A scout doesnt need to see directional arrows, as they can cloak when they feel in danger, and, smart use of said cloak(for example, maintaining a minimum distance of 40m when you're set to scan at 80m)will ensure even if they see you that youre far enough away they wont be able to predict where you'rr going. If we keep arrows this allows Scouts to too easily kill EVERYTHING,as they can either Shotgun, Flaylock, PlasmaCannon, or Knife the person to 1Hk0 them before they notice. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:55:00 - [216] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile. so armor gets double kicked in the ballz? armor tank already gives up tank/slots for dampening... Yes. Tank, speed, or stealth, pick one and commit.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3331	Posted - 2014.11.10 18:22:00 - [217] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Jack McReady wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile. so armor gets double kicked in the ballz? armor tank already gives up tank/slots for dampening... Yes. Tank, speed, or stealth, pick one and commit. Lol doesn't shields get tank and speed, and now stealth. Why dp they get all three and we only get 1? If you tank armor you lose speed, if you use speed you lose tank and if you dampen you lose tank hp regen and trying to mitigate these losses with heavy plates is speed. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:51:00 - [218] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Jack McReady wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile. so armor gets double kicked in the ballz? armor tank already gives up tank/slots for dampening... Yes. Tank, speed, or stealth, pick one and commit. Lol doesn't shields get tank and speed, and now stealth. Why dp they get all three and we only get 1? If you tank armor you lose speed, if you use speed you lose tank and if you dampen you lose tank hp regen and trying to mitigate these losses with heavy plates is speed. Two complex shield = one complex armor. From the same post Rattati was also talking about a penalty to shields as well, I think increased profile (?). I'll have to go back through, but the original intention was not singling out only armor tank, even though that seemed to be the original complaint. Seems like most people are more worried about armor tank because most suits won't see a scout with max damp skill even before modules. Which leads to the mini-assault. Which brings us here. At least, that's my impression.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 242	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:24:00 - [219] - Quote CeeJ Mantis wrote: So then how would you fix the issue? It's easy to tell people that they ate wrong. Let's instead try to solve this problem, or if you believe it cannot be solved, explain why. I have posted many times what I believe will at the very least give the devs the ability to balance some of the current issues with this game and given reason for it including some in this thread... you should give it a read. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3332	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:47:00 - [220] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Jack McReady wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile. so armor gets double kicked in the ballz? armor tank already gives up tank/slots for dampening... Yes. Tank, speed, or stealth, pick one and commit. Lol doesn't shields get tank and speed, and now stealth. Why dp they get all three and we only get 1? If you tank armor you lose speed, if you use speed you lose tank and if you dampen you lose tank hp regen and trying to mitigate these losses with heavy plates is speed. Two complex shield = one complex armor. From the same post Rattati was also talking about a penalty to shields as well, I think increased profile (?). I'll have to go back through, but the original intention was not singling out only armor tank, even though that seemed to be the original complaint. Seems like most people are more worried about armor tank because most suits won't see a scout with max damp skill even before modules. Which leads to the mini-assault. Which brings us here. At least, that's my impression. It's not the penalty that worries me is dampener taking up valuable low slots. I just hope ccp makes precision competitive for medium suits also. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4496	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:09:00 - [221] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: So then how would you fix the issue? It's easy to tell people that they ate wrong. Let's instead try to solve this problem, or if you believe it cannot be solved, explain why. I have posted many times what I believe will at the very least give the devs the ability to balance some of the current issues with this game and given reason for it including some in this thread... you should give it a read. Most of us have already read it and moved on. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 244	Posted - 2014.11.11 00:27:00 - [222] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: So then how would you fix the issue? It's easy to tell people that they ate wrong. Let's instead try to solve this problem, or if you believe it cannot be solved, explain why. I have posted many times what I believe will at the very least give the devs the ability to balance some of the current issues with this game and given reason for it including some in this thread... you should give it a read. Most of us have already read it and moved on. Right, which is what forums are for I was explaining that I have offered ideas. I just didn't want to bluntly say if you actually read the forums you post in you would have a better understanding of the discussion... for some reason a quip seems a little nicer. Check out the film Flame and Citron it is amazing! Wizard Talk
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7617	Posted - 2014.11.12 06:23:00 - [223] - Quote Copy Paste from Zatara's thread. After reading the post from Rattati and thinking about the equipment and changes, I decided that I wanted scouts to have a definitive role in eWAR and get bonuses toward it and WP from it. The new equipment I felt gave me a way to do so. First off: Kills from any team member in your "Motion Detectors" radius gives you +15 WP per kill or +25 from squad mates. Scouts need to have a role that isn't killing. Giving penalties to HP mods on scouts is a good step, but we need a tangible eWAR role and rewards for our job if you want to take us off the front lines. At the same time, you can't make us useless in combat, as this is an FPS and I still want to shoot people. I just don't want that to be my main job. For example: Lets say that the new "Motion Detector" equip idea goes through. Min Scouts would have a bonus to this Detectors Precision, profile dampening, and a NK bonus. This makes them good at detecting targets, staying hidden, and assassination. By using their speed and passive dampening, they can get behind lines, plop down a detector and assassinate targets behind enemy lines, even if they are dampened. Gal Scouts would have a bonus to this detectors Range, profile dampening, and Codebreakers. This makes them effective at infiltration with dampening and codebreakers to quickly flip enemy munitions and objectives. The range boost helps those links keep targets lit up for the team. Amarr scouts would have a bonus to detectors Range, scan precision, and Armor Repair. Excellent at point defense due to their higher average HP, a detector has extended range for med frames and good precision for detection of damped units getting close to the objective. Armor repair helps them maintain combat effectiveness, as their large (comparatively) armor tank can take awhile to regen. Caldari Scouts would have a bonus to detectors precision, scan range, and scan precision. The eWAR specialists, they are best suited to maintaining high fidelity scans all around them, with decent range to boot. However, they are easier to detect when compared to other scouts, and rely on their shielding and eWAR to help them survive. These aren't concrete examples, but they give you an idea of what I want. Each has a definitive role as you can see: which can be summarized as follows: NOTE: These roles are defined towards med frames. Scout v Scout combat is still very much a "fight in the dark" if both sides are fitted properly. This is necessary to prevent any one of the scouts from being able to scan and trump the others, like we had way back in Caldari Scout514 Minmatar: Hunters Gallente: Infiltrators Amarr: Defenders Caldari: Detectors I also tried to throw in some limiting factors. Gallente and Minmatar are strongest when their equipment is deployed. The Minmatar's and Gallente's equipment precision/range lets them detect their targets and assassinate them. Without it, they are blind essentially, due to lack of eWAR modules and their cloak field. For them to succeed, they need to be able to infiltrate an area and lay down their equipment, and are kinda limited to that area. The Minmatar is confined to a small, but precise area, being able to detect lone enemies when they pass though, or bail if they see a full squad. Or even set up a deadly trap with remote explosives (This is how I've always imagined the Minmatar, but we have terrible eWAR. I've always wanted that changed) The Gallente has a much larger area to work with, but is susceptible to a scout or heavily damped unit coming into their area. To counter this, the Gallente are also heavily damped, and sport a decent armor tank. They can easily run into a person and win due to their armor and high damage plasma weaponry. Hack mods are used to quickly hack enemy munitions and null cannons, useful when behind enemy lines. Amarr and Caldari have strong eWAR on their own, and benefit the team when their equipment is deployed. For example: The Cal scout really doesn't even need the equipment himself. His own passive eWAR is strong enough. His strength is by being able to effectively cover two area's at once, since he can plop down his detector and put himself elsewhere. For example, he can put a motion detector into a high traffic area and sit back at range with a RR, lighting people up as they walk in. If someone comes to kill him, he uses his passive eWAR to detect them, cloak and avoid. If they have good precision and keep stalking you, you can slowly pull them toward other team-mates, setting up an ambush. The Amarr also has high fidelity scans, and has the low slots to fit range extenders. He helps his team by placing himself on the point and his equipment in an area where it can cover the most ground. With his high stamina, defense and hack speed, he is perfect for roaming the city, looking for targets (Such as that pesky minmatar scout or gallente) and then being able to make it back to an objective and counter hack when he gets there (Being able to detect the lone soldier that did it and eliminate him). Get the picture? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7617	Posted - 2014.11.12 06:24:00 - [224] - Quote Part II: All these stats being said: I also want to get rid of tons of HP on scouts. I never EVER want to see a scout with more HP than this in their main tank (Shields or Armor) Minmatar: 270 (2 Complex Shields) Caldari: 308 (2 Complex Shields) Gallente: 327 (2 Complex Ferroscales) Amarr: 377 (2 Complex Ferroscales) Hopefully with the way the bonuses play out and other mods are encouraged, this will be the ideal amount of health a scout will run with. Optimal fits I see with the above: Minmatar: 2x Shields, 1x Precision (or sidearm damage) 2x Damp 1x Speed (2 damps are needed to counter the profile penalty from shields) Gallente: 1x Shield, 1x Precision 2x Damp (Shield would add profile) 1x Ferro 1x Repair (Decent spread of speed, stealth, and regen, all needed for an infiltrator) Amarr: 2x Precision, 2x Ferro 1x Repair 1x Damp Caldari: 2x Shields 2x Precision 1x Damp 1x Range I tried to separate them into "Offensive oriented scouts" and "Defense oriented scouts", with both having good bonuses for eWAR in both situations and still maintain combat effectiveness. Hell, I even gave away my favorite bonus in the game (Hack Speed) to the Amarr because it just made more sense to me from the new role perspective I gave. As I said, It's not perfect, and there are probably a few flaws in here, but this is the kind of interaction I want. Hope you see this Rattai. I already sent a post to Zatara and told him to look over it. I've been a scout since Uprising 1.0 and I hate what we have become. Slayers need to go back to their assault suits, let scouts do some SCOUTING. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 453	Posted - 2014.11.12 18:38:00 - [225] - Quote redacted Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 453	Posted - 2014.11.12 19:26:00 - [226] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Part II: All these stats being said: I also want to get rid of tons of HP on scouts. I never EVER want to see a scout with more HP than this in their main tank (Shields or Armor) Minmatar: 270 (2 Complex Shields) Caldari: 308 (2 Complex Shields) Gallente: 327 (2 Complex Ferroscales) Amarr: 377 (2 Complex Ferroscales) Hopefully with the way the bonuses play out and other mods are encouraged, this will be the ideal amount of health a scout will run with. Optimal fits I see with the above: Minmatar: 2x Shields, 1x Precision (or sidearm damage) 2x Damp 1x Speed (2 damps are needed to counter the profile penalty from shields) Gallente: 1x Shield, 1x Precision 2x Damp (Shield would add profile) 1x Ferro 1x Repair (Decent spread of speed, stealth, and regen, all needed for an infiltrator) Amarr: 2x Precision, 2x Ferro 1x Repair 1x Damp Caldari: 2x Shields 2x Precision 1x Damp 1x Range I tried to separate them into "Offensive oriented scouts" and "Defense oriented scouts", with both having good bonuses for eWAR in both situations and still maintain combat effectiveness. Hell, I even gave away my favorite bonus in the game (Hack Speed) to the Amarr because it just made more sense to me from the new role perspective I gave. As I said, It's not perfect, and there are probably a few flaws in here, but this is the kind of interaction I want. Hope you see this Rattai. I already sent a post to Zatara and told him to look over it. I've been a scout since Uprising 1.0 and I hate what we have become. Slayers need to go back to their assault suits, let scouts do some SCOUTING. This is exactly the sort of thing that NEEDS to be done prior to any other sort of "balancing/tweaking" hotfixes, Logi/Support, EWAR or otherwise. Continuing to allow the complete disparity between scouts and all other frames to exist will taint any ability to glean accurate balancing data OR results. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1831	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:26:00 - [227] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow i may rethink this one.. it would be too much of a nerf for NK use.. so basically a massive slap in the face for Minjas [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 263	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:40:00 - [228] - Quote I don't know m8 most of my nk kills are flank and snipers before they all went to aerial or red line positions. I believe it would still be pretty obvious which direction they faced as long as they were not walking backwards. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 283	Posted - 2014.11.13 01:40:00 - [229] - Quote I don't know m8 most of my nk kills are flank and snipers before they all went to aerial or red line positions. I believe it would still be pretty obvious which direction they faced as long as they were not walking backwards. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
JIAF-PR 108	Posted - 2014.11.14 01:18:00 - [230] - Quote Mis sugerencias: Flechas en el radar Eliminarlas en el escáner pasivo Dejarlas en los escáneres activos de 25dB o menos (de no poderse dejarlo en los escáneres activos en general) Campo de Invisibilidad Añadir que cuando el campo este activado (además de la reducción de 85% del alcance) daría +50%(pro) +40%(adv) +30%(std) de precisión y -50%(pro) -40%(adv) -30%(std) de perfil de emisiones; mientras que desactivado daría +50%(pro) +60%(adv) +70%(std) de perfil de emisiones Escáner Activo Colocar el escáner básico centrado con 10dB, que ningún traje se pueda esconder a este escáner (solo de escuadrón) Bajar el alcance de escáner básico centrado a solo 75m Crear una versión avanzada con resolución de 25dB Se restringe el escáner activo a solo uno por traje Bonificaciones de trajes Cambiar la bonificación racial del Logístico Gallente a +5% de ángulo por nivel Darle una bonificación extra al Explorador Minmatar de -2% al perfil de emisiones. Cambiar las bonificaciones de los Combates a bonificaciones a sus habilidades de tanqueo, ejemplo: Amarr (Excelente capacidad de tanqueo): +3% a la eficiencia de módulos de escudo y +7% a la eficiencia de módulos blindaje por nivel. Podría ser también +10% a la eficiencia de los módulos de blindaje por nivel. Caldari (Excelente tanqueo de escudo y regeneración de escudo): +5% a la eficiencia de módulos de escudo y +5% a la eficiencia de recargadores/energizadores de escudo por nivel. Gallente (Gran capacidad te tanqueo de blindaje y excelente reparación de blindaje): +5% a la eficiencia de módulos de blindaje y +0.7hp/s de reparación de blindaje por nivel. Podría ser también +5% a la eficiencia de módulos de blindaje y +10% a la eficiencia de módulos de reparación y la reparación de placas reactivas por nivel. Minmatar (Excelente en recuperación en general): +5% a la eficiencia de recargadores/energizadores de escudo y +0.7hp/s de reparación de blindaje por nivel. Podría ser también +5% a la eficiencia de recargadores/energizadores de escudo y +10% a la eficiencia de módulos de reparación y la reparación de placas reactivas por nivel. Otras Sugerencias Darle la mayor cantidad de alcance de escáner pasivo a los Logísticos y los Comandos. (esto junto a la mejora propuesta a su precisión de 5 puntos en ambos) Cambiar los Descodificadores a los módulos de alta potencia. Traduccion: My suggestions: Arrows on radar Remove them in the passive scanner. Leave them in active scanners with 25dB or less (not being able do this, leave it in all active scanners). Cloak Field Add that when the field is activated (plus 85% reduction range) give +50% (pro) +40% (adv) +30% (std) of presicion and -50% (pro) -40% (adv) -30% (std) emissions profile; while off give +50% (pro) +60% (adv) +70% (std) emission profile Active Scanner Give the focus scanner a 10dB, that no suit can hide this scanner (only for squadron) Down the range of focus scanner only to 75m Create an advanced version with resolution of 25dB Now the active scanner will be restricted to only one suit Bonus for Dropsuit Change GalLogi racial bonus to +5% of degree per level. Give an extra bonus for the MinScout of -2% emissions profile. Give the Combat new bonuses for there tanking skills, example: Amarr (Excellent tanking capacity): +3% to shield module efficency and +7% to armor module efficency per level. It could also be +10% to armor module efficency per level. Caldari (Excellent shild tanking and shield regeneration): +5% to shield module efficiency and +5% to shield rechargers/energizers modules efficency per level. Gallente (High armor tanking capacity and excellent armor repair): +5% to armor modules efficiency and +0.7hp/s repair armor per level. It could also be +5% to armor modules efficency and +10% to armor reapair modules and repair of reactive plates efficiency per level. Minmatar (Excellent recovery in general): +5% to shield rechargers / energizers modules effeciency and +0.7hp/s repair armor per level. It could also be +5% to shield rechargers/energizers modules efficency and +10% armor reapair modules and repair of reactive plates efficiency per level. Other Suggestions Give the big range of passive scanner to the Logis and Commandos. (this with the proposed improvement to the accuracy of 5 points in both) Change the coderbreakers to high slot. "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos

Mr Machine Guns 927	Posted - 2014.11.14 05:03:00 - [231] - Quote just bring back the ability to do 360 degree scans, it might help because it will scan all the scouts that don't damp the right amount so this might greatly help public matches
Ansla Valier One Corps 1	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:52:00 - [232] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Just a thought. Although not commonly done on purpose since they have pretty big scan profiles, equipment can already be used to track vehicles (Eg a single friendly remote mine on an LAV will sometimes give away it's position from a distance). It would be nice if these didn't stick to vehicles. Also be cause they could thrown an LAV/HAV and used in place of a scanner module. Probably not an issue given how drop uplinks work presently but thought I'd mention it just in the off chance.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 210	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:12:00 - [233] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: just bring back the ability to do 360 degree scans, it might help because it will scan all the scouts that don't damp the right amount so this might greatly help public matches By "right amount" do you mean run straight damps in all low slots? This would become necessary for both CA and MN Scout if the GA Logi were permitted 360 degree scans. Not to mention, you'd be boning any MedFrame who sought to dampen. GA Scout becomes only Scout. Everyone else tanks HP. I thought the idea was to eventually dethrone King HP?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:17:00 - [234] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: just bring back the ability to do 360 degree scans, it might help because it will scan all the scouts that don't damp the right amount so this might greatly help public matches By "right amount" do you mean run straight damps in all low slots? This would become necessary for both CA and MN Scout if the GA Logi were permitted 360 degree scans. Not to mention, you'd be boning any MedFrame who sought to dampen. GA Scout becomes only Scout. Everyone else tanks HP. I thought the idea was to eventually dethrone King HP? You know his already, but I'll say it so you can quote it. The idea is to dethrone King scout. If scouts want to own the field they need to earn it on the field, not be granted it by virtue of possessing the broadest advantage portfolio in the game. There should be no Kings, ever. For every Rock, there is a Paper For every Paper, there is a Scissor And for every Scissor, a Rock. We make no space for Kings here We make no space for Kings here Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 211	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:36:00 - [235] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: You know his already, but I'll say it so you can quote it. The idea is to dethrone King scout. There is no King Scout to dethrone. There is King HMG, who reigns without rival over PC. There is King HP, who reigns over the module market. There Queen QQ, who we hear from anytime anything dare threaten either King.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.11.14 20:00:00 - [236] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: You know his already, but I'll say it so you can quote it. The idea is to dethrone King scout. There is no King Scout to dethrone. There is King HP, who presides over PC, the markets and the leaderboards. There Queen QQ, who we hear from anytime anything threatens King HP. Don't forget the Minister of Misinformation, who will inundate all attempts at accessing worthwhile info on a specific topic with his trademark modus operandi, "Looketh over There". If you think there is no King scout, you are he. Or, you don't play anything except the forums. Queen QQ exists solely because King scout exists and married her. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 211	Posted - 2014.11.14 20:30:00 - [237] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: If you think there is no King scout, you are he. Or, you don't play anything except the forums. Don't have to play To look and see That what people want Is almost always HP. EWAR Ideas? Here's one from me Make other modules more appealing By dethroning King HP.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 478	Posted - 2014.11.14 21:39:00 - [238] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: If you think there is no King scout, you are he. Or, you don't play anything except the forums. *Don't have to play* To look and see I am an ass Commenting stupidly Taking general data swaths And drawing conclusions irrelevantly Reinforcing that balancing will cost me game position And exposing me totally...as a Minister of Misinformation. Fixed that for you, Now deny its true Pull some other data out And try to misconstrue Maybe it'll be leaderboards! And we'll play, What Fit's Whose? Or maybe it'll be aurum sales! And we'll play, Its not OP if its Not What They Choose! Maybe you should get your alts out So you can like what it is you're saying Because so far the tripe you present as fact Is not being bought by anyone else who *is actually playing* Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 478	Posted - 2014.11.14 21:49:00 - [239] - Quote Gee golly me, I wonder why people want HEALTH? Especially in a game centered On the KILLING of someone else? In a genre called First Person Shooter, The idea people would try to survive, Is a concept claimed unclear only to those Who have something else to hide. And of those folks whose opinions Are made up of such irrefutable fact Its obvious they don't share from their main ID Lest their true intentions be unmasked. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 478	Posted - 2014.11.14 21:54:00 - [240] - Quote The game must pwn you I win when you die pwnd noob Troll away you lose Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 478	Posted - 2014.11.14 21:59:00 - [241] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: *The game* must pwn you *I win* when you die pwnd noob Troll away you lose gpn Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 213	Posted - 2014.11.14 22:12:00 - [242] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Gee golly me, I wonder why people want HEALTH? Especially in a game centered On the KILLING of someone else? In a genre called First Person Shooter, The idea people would try to survive, Is a concept claimed unclear only to those Who have something else to hide. And of those folks whose opinions Are made up of such irrefutable fact Its obvious they don't share from their main ID Lest their true intentions be unmasked. HP the best! Let's give the Heavies ~~1000~~ 1500. Let's give the Mediums ~~500~~ 1000. Let's give the Lights ~~250~~ 500. Now that everyone's TTK has been fixed ... Let's force those Lights back toward 250! They should always be easy to kill. And I should always be hard to kill.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 478	Posted - 2014.11.14 22:18:00 - [243] - Quote lol Keep proving the point. gpn Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 478	Posted - 2014.11.14 23:10:00 - [244] - Quote From elsewhere in the forums: el OPERATOR wrote: Normalize base profile so that classes are only a couple db apart. Leave modules and passive skill bonuses alone. Keep scanners, scanning, and vision as it is now. With the base db closer between classes, and 0 investment into skills detection will work largely as it does now. scouts will see scouts and all others while all others will be EWAR blind. However as players invest in skills and equip modules then the profiles will begin to overlap allowing EWAR interplay, to the point potentially that a fully Precision V skilled heavy with modules equipped can detect an unskilled, undamped light sneaking around his immediate area. Were the scout fully skilled and running a Damp or two, then fatboy would be as oblivious as ever. EDIT: Mediums, right in-between, will see and be seen and learn to lead, follow or gtfo of the way. ezpz hotfixable solution Do it this afternoon, we can play in it tonight. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7819	Posted - 2014.11.14 23:16:00 - [245] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Gee golly me, I wonder why people want HEALTH? Especially in a game centered On the KILLING of someone else? In a genre called First Person Shooter, The idea people would try to survive, Is a concept claimed unclear only to those Who have something else to hide. And of those folks whose opinions Are made up of such irrefutable fact Its obvious they don't share from their main ID Lest their true intentions be unmasked. Can we please make it a forum rule that all arguments must be held in this fashion? PLEASE? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2212	Posted - 2014.11.15 13:43:00 - [246] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile IMHO, plates should have nothing to do with Sig Profile. They should be balanced solely by their movement penalty, though I do think that the penalty should scale by frame size (Light frames get affected more by adding plates to their stripped down suits, Medium suits are affected normally, Heavys less so). All Shield mods on the other hand should affect Sig Profile. If you stack nothing but Shield mods you should be exceedingly easy to find (even on a Scout). Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7847	Posted - 2014.11.15 15:22:00 - [247] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile IMHO, plates should have nothing to do with Sig Profile. They should be balanced solely by their movement penalty, though I do think that the penalty should scale by frame size (Light frames get affected more by adding plates to their stripped down suits, Medium suits are affected normally, Heavys less so). All Shield mods on the other hand should affect Sig Profile. If you stack nothing but Shield mods you should be exceedingly easy to find (even on a Scout). How would you balance the Cal or Minmatar scout then? Remember, they have VERY little eHP and not too many low slots. Not only that, but the Minmatar scout has a very unique niche. It NEEDS to run at least a single Kincat or Codebreaker if it wants to remain competitive. If you don't balance their skills accordingly, they will be marginalized in favor of the armor tank scouts. Now I'm not saying that shield scouts should happily stack shield mods all day, but what I'm saying is that they still need to be able to fit some health without completely blowing their stealth out of the water. Check my previous posts about scout HP. They should be able to fit 1-2 health mods per scout (Shields or Ferro/Reactive plates) while maintaining proper dampening. This puts typical HP values for each scout within the 250-400 range, which is perfectly acceptable for a scout. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2212	Posted - 2014.11.15 15:56:00 - [248] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile IMHO, plates should have nothing to do with Sig Profile. They should be balanced solely by their movement penalty, though I do think that the penalty should scale by frame size (Light frames get affected more by adding plates to their stripped down suits, Medium suits are affected normally, Heavys less so). All Shield mods on the other hand should affect Sig Profile. If you stack nothing but Shield mods you should be exceedingly easy to find (even on a Scout). How would you balance the Cal or Minmatar scout then? Remember, they have VERY little eHP and not too many low slots. Not only that, but the Minmatar scout has a very unique niche. It NEEDS to run at least a single Kincat or Codebreaker if it wants to remain competitive. If you don't balance their skills accordingly, they will be marginalized in favor of the armor tank scouts. Now I'm not saying that shield scouts should happily stack shield mods all day, but what I'm saying is that they still need to be able to fit some health without completely blowing their stealth out of the water. Check my previous posts about scout HP. They should be able to fit 1-2 health mods per scout (Shields or Ferro/Reactive plates) while maintaining proper dampening. This puts typical HP values for each scout within the 250-400 range, which is perfectly acceptable for a scout. Scouts should sig tank with the eHP of a piece of paper, if they're not, they're doing it wrong. If they get spotted, they should be a dead memory. Tank is meant for those who will be on the front line (uncloaked and possibly not flanking). If Scouts are on the frontline and they aren't cloaked or flanking, they should be Assaults/Commandos. Despite the QQ, the Scout "meta" is best served by Cloaked/Damped Shotgun/NK Assassins, not "Light Assault" frontline CR/PR/RR/ScR riflemen. The only balancing that they need to not be OP with Cloak/Damp Shotgun/NK is for there to be a real and significant delay between deactivating cloak and swapping to anything else. Sig tanking is the answer, I even accommodate for armor tanking scouts in my post (increased penalty for stacking plates). Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 221	Posted - 2014.11.15 16:26:00 - [249] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Scouts should sig tank with the eHP of a piece of paper, if they're not, they're doing it wrong. If they get spotted, they should be a dead memory. Would work if the paper-thin on your heels could kill you without taking damage. Given current Assault and Heavy HP levels, only a Level(5) MinScout with Pro(5) Proto Knives can pull this off consistently. And even then, there is no room for even the slightest error or miscalculation. Scouts who'd otherwise run straight EWAR or Biotics run some HP out of necessity. They take damage even when they do everything right. No one complains that a Scout has "no chance to respond" when spotted by an HMG Heavy. But the Forums scream foul when the roles are reversed. A double standard?
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2213	Posted - 2014.11.15 17:25:00 - [250] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Scouts should sig tank with the eHP of a piece of paper, if they're not, they're doing it wrong. If they get spotted, they should be a dead memory. Would work if the paper-thin on your heels could kill you without taking damage. Given current Assault and Heavy HP levels, only a Level(5) MinScout with Pro(5) Proto Knives can pull this off consistently. And even then, there is no room for even the slightest error or miscalculation. Scouts who'd otherwise run straight EWAR or Biotics run some HP out of necessity. They take damage even when they do everything right. Which is why Ghost Kaisar's thinking is right. I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 222	Posted - 2014.11.15 17:27:00 - [251] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Please, have all my likes.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:09:00 - [252] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. It would be impossible for me to agree with you more. Please, have all my likes. BS This is worthwhile when scouts are detectable by all frames within their immediate precision radius. Were this a third-person shooter with the ability to roam AND watch the characters' peripherals it wouldn't be so bad. But the idea that the suits with the highest amounts of stealth, fastest sprint and movement speeds, capability to use any weapons except the heavies, use multiple pieces of equipment AND the ability to run/climb/jump into and onto areas of the maps otherwise completely inaccessible to other frames would receive a damage bonus for CQ is I-WIN button TRASH. Hurr durr, I should OHK anyone from behind but if I'm in front of a burst HMG and it evicerates me the HMG is OP, hurrdurr.... One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 286	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:14:00 - [253] - Quote There are a ton of people with deep interest in preserving EZ mode. Many of them are in your Alliance. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 226	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:14:00 - [254] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. EZ Mode? What do HMG Heavies have to do with EWAR?
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2213	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:18:00 - [255] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. It would be impossible for me to agree with you more. Please, have all my likes. BS This is worthwhile when scouts are detectable by all frames within their immediate precision radius. Were this a third-person shooter with the ability to roam AND watch the characters' peripherals it wouldn't be so bad. But the idea that the suits with the highest amounts of stealth, fastest sprint and movement speeds, capability to use any weapons except the heavies, use multiple pieces of equipment AND the ability to run/climb/jump into and onto areas of the maps otherwise completely inaccessible to other frames would receive a damage bonus for CQ is I-WIN button TRASH. Hurr durr, I should OHK anyone from behind but if I'm in front of a burst HMG and it evicerates me the HMG is OP, hurrdurr.... One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. lulz I never said it was just for Scouts, I assumed that it would be common sense that it would work for anyone. If (you'reDumbEnoughToLetMeGetImmediatelyBehindYou) { then you'reDead Also, I agree with Blueprint for Murder, your alliance has the highest concentration of those desiring EZ mode. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 67	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:25:00 - [256] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. It would be impossible for me to agree with you more. Please, have all my likes. BS This is worthwhile when scouts are detectable by all frames within their immediate precision radius. Were this a third-person shooter with the ability to roam AND watch the characters' peripherals it wouldn't be so bad. But the idea that the suits with the highest amounts of stealth, fastest sprint and movement speeds, capability to use any weapons except the heavies, use multiple pieces of equipment AND the ability to run/climb/jump into and onto areas of the maps otherwise completely inaccessible to other frames would receive a damage bonus for CQ is I-WIN button TRASH. Hurr durr, I should OHK anyone from behind but if I'm in front of a burst HMG and it evicerates me the HMG is OP, hurrdurr.... One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. lulz I never said it was just for Scouts, I assumed that it would be common sense that it would work for anyone. If (you'reDumbEnoughToLetMeGetImmediatelyBehindYou) { then you'reDead Also, I agree with Blueprint for Murder, your alliance has the highest concentration of those desiring EZ mode. Your wording certainly makes it sound like you're referring to scouts. Additionally, aside from a few 'special fit' Assaults, do you really think anyone besides scouts will get within 3m before they're seen?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:26:00 - [257] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Scouts should sig tank with the eHP of a piece of paper, if they're not, they're doing it wrong. If they get spotted, they should be a dead memory. Would work if the paper-thin on your heels could kill you without taking damage. Given current Assault and Heavy HP levels, only a Level(5) MinScout with Pro(5) Proto Knives can pull this off consistently. And even then, there is no room for even the slightest error or miscalculation. Scouts who'd otherwise run straight EWAR or Biotics run some HP out of necessity. They take damage even when they do everything right. Which is why Ghost Kaisar's thinking is right. I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Its already largely like this. If these aren't the results you're achieving you're doing it wrong. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:30:00 - [258] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: There are a ton of people with deep interest in preserving EZ mode. Many of them are in your Alliance. Seems legit. Its the largest alliance in the game. So it probably has the highest numbers of ALL player perspectives and interests. Except for the perspective that large alliances are bad, most of those players I'd imagine don't join. ie. Moot point. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:36:00 - [259] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. EZ Mode? What do HMG Heavies have to do with EWAR? What don't heavies have to do with EWAR? If heavies have nothing to do with EWAR then WHY do they have a profile or precision at all? Why do they have a tacnet? Why do they have a HUD? Why on earth are you not able to participate in discourse without constantly pitching misinformation, distractions and diversions? You don't seem "crafty", you seem undereducated and self-absorbed. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:37:00 - [260] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Scouts should sig tank with the eHP of a piece of paper, if they're not, they're doing it wrong. If they get spotted, they should be a dead memory. Would work if the paper-thin on your heels could kill you without taking damage. Given current Assault and Heavy HP levels, only a Level(5) MinScout with Pro(5) Proto Knives can pull this off consistently. And even then, there is no room for even the slightest error or miscalculation. Scouts who'd otherwise run straight EWAR or Biotics run some HP out of necessity. They take damage even when they do everything right. Which is why Ghost Kaisar's thinking is right. I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Its already largely like this. If these aren't the results you're achieving you're doing it wrong. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 226	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:43:00 - [261] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Its already largely like this. A bold claim. If you don't mind my asking, what do you base this upon?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:49:00 - [262] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. It would be impossible for me to agree with you more. Please, have all my likes. BS This is worthwhile when scouts are detectable by all frames within their immediate precision radius. Were this a third-person shooter with the ability to roam AND watch the characters' peripherals it wouldn't be so bad. But the idea that the suits with the highest amounts of stealth, fastest sprint and movement speeds, capability to use any weapons except the heavies, use multiple pieces of equipment AND the ability to run/climb/jump into and onto areas of the maps otherwise completely inaccessible to other frames would receive a damage bonus for CQ is I-WIN button TRASH. Hurr durr, I should OHK anyone from behind but if I'm in front of a burst HMG and it evicerates me the HMG is OP, hurrdurr.... One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. lulz I never said it was just for Scouts, I assumed that it would be common sense that it would work for anyone. If (you'reDumbEnoughToLetMeGetImmediatelyBehindYou) { then you'reDead Also, I agree with Blueprint for Murder, your alliance has the highest concentration of those desiring EZ mode. Your wording certainly makes it sound like you're referring to scouts. Additionally, aside from a few 'special fit' Assaults, do you really think anyone besides scouts will get within 3m before they're seen? Thank you for that, your addition was a much more polite response than what I had drafted. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 227	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:51:00 - [263] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Your wording certainly makes it sound like you're referring to scouts. Additionally, aside from a few 'special fit' Assaults, do you really think anyone besides scouts will get within 3m before they're seen? Looking at the APEX GA Assault and Rattati's explanation for its loadout, I think it probable that we'll dampened Assaults down the road.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 18:53:00 - [264] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Its already largely like this. A bold claim. If you don't mind my asking, what do you base this upon? Whats this? Is the Logi going to have to explain execution to the " skilled assassin scouts"? el OPERATOR wrote: You don't seem "crafty", you seem undereducated and self-absorbed. I understand that you and I may not agree, but to stoop to personal insults? If it makes you feel good, then feel free. I don't mind, really, but I also don't see how it will help your argument. I suffer idiocy poorly. Point taken. EDITED: to not be such an ******* Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 228	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:11:00 - [265] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I understand that you and I may not agree, but to stoop to personal insults? If it makes you feel good, then feel free. I don't mind, really, but I also don't see how it will help your argument. I suffer idiocy poorly. Point taken. EDITED: to not be such an ******* Not to say your observation is without merit. I grew up in the South (US), a place not known for having high educational standards. It is statistically probable that I am undereducated. This point, I accept. Give me a moment to parse and respond to your next point...
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 228	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:14:00 - [266] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Its already largely like this. A bold claim. If you don't mind my asking, what do you base this upon? el OPERATOR wrote: Whats this? Is the Logi going to have to explain execution to the " skilled assassin scouts"? Not at all. You state a point as fact, and am I asking for your basis. Any number of scouts will tell you that "backstab" attacks with alpha weapons routinely fail. Your statement -- offered as fact -- contradicts day-to-day observations made by myself and many others. So ... what is your basis?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:18:00 - [267] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. Its already largely like this. A bold claim. If you don't mind my asking, what do you base this upon? el OPERATOR wrote: Whats this? Is the Logi going to have to explain execution to the " skilled assassin scouts"? Not at all. You state a point as fact, and am I asking for your basis. Any number of scouts will tell you that "backstab" attacks with alpha weapons routinely fail. Your statement -- offered as fact -- contradicts day-to-day observations made by myself and many others. So ... what is your basis? Headshot multiplier. You're back there anyway, line it up and make it count, Agent 47. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:24:00 - [268] - Quote And if you aren't seeing that creating circumstances which will emphasize circling vs. strafing will automatically always favor the suits with the fastest movement speeds (movement speed NOT being a modifiable value) you owe your local educational institutions a letter. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2214	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:35:00 - [269] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I disagree that eHP is the answer for Scouts. I think it would be better if we just got a ~150% bonus to efficacy for damage inflicted to a back within 3m. This would encourage Scouts to "do it right" rather than crying that they should be "Light Assaults". If you're paying so little attention that I can get within 3m of your back, you deserve to die no matter how much eHP you have or what weapon I have in hand. It would be impossible for me to agree with you more. Please, have all my likes. BS This is worthwhile when scouts are detectable by all frames within their immediate precision radius. Were this a third-person shooter with the ability to roam AND watch the characters' peripherals it wouldn't be so bad. But the idea that the suits with the highest amounts of stealth, fastest sprint and movement speeds, capability to use any weapons except the heavies, use multiple pieces of equipment AND the ability to run/climb/jump into and onto areas of the maps otherwise completely inaccessible to other frames would receive a damage bonus for CQ is I-WIN button TRASH. Hurr durr, I should OHK anyone from behind but if I'm in front of a burst HMG and it evicerates me the HMG is OP, hurrdurr.... One more example of zero interest in balance but deep interest in preserving EZ mode. lulz I never said it was just for Scouts, I assumed that it would be common sense that it would work for anyone. If (you'reDumbEnoughToLetMeGetImmediatelyBehindYou) { then you'reDead Also, I agree with Blueprint for Murder, your alliance has the highest concentration of those desiring EZ mode. Your wording certainly makes it sound like you're referring to scouts. Additionally, aside from a few 'special fit' Assaults, do you really think anyone besides scouts will get within 3m before they're seen? I've edited my original post for clarity. I apologize for not being clearer. As far as getting within 3m, I never said it should be an everyday thing, though I have done this before in medium suits (Assault and Logi). You'd be surprised how few people actually pay attention to the minimap (It is actually kinda sad). Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:45:00 - [270] - Quote cups hand to ear Whats that? You went back and changed your original post to try to hide what you're actually proposing and aboid the well deserved criticism of an extremely poor idea? Trollolololololololololol GG Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:53:00 - [271] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: From elsewhere in the forums: el OPERATOR wrote: Normalize base profile so that classes are only a couple db apart. Leave modules and passive skill bonuses alone. Keep scanners, scanning, and vision as it is now. With the base db closer between classes, and 0 investment into skills detection will work largely as it does now. scouts will see scouts and all others while all others will be EWAR blind. However as players invest in skills and equip modules then the profiles will begin to overlap allowing EWAR interplay, to the point potentially that a fully Precision V skilled heavy with modules equipped can detect an unskilled, undamped light sneaking around his immediate area. Were the scout fully skilled and running a Damp or two, then fatboy would be as oblivious as ever. EDIT: Mediums, right in-between, will see and be seen and learn to lead, follow or gtfo of the way. ezpz hotfixable solution Do it this afternoon, we can play in it tonight. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 230	Posted - 2014.11.15 19:59:00 - [272] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Headshot multiplier. You're back there anyway, line it up and make it count, Agent 47. How 'bout giving Knives a go for yourself before assuming your assertions are fact? See how often you can land NK headshots on moving targets. See how often you can land NK headshots on AFK targets. And while you're out there, 47, see how often Heavies insta-spin-and-win even after you've shanked them just right.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.11.15 20:26:00 - [273] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Headshot multiplier. You're back there anyway, line it up and make it count, Agent 47. I could tell you that you're wrong and why, but you wouldn't believe me. So how 'bout giving Knives a go for yourself before assuming your assertions about CQC mechanics are indeed factual? See how often you can land NK headshots on moving targets. See how often you can land NK headshots on AFK targets. I trust you'll find consistency consistently hard to find. And while you're out there, 47, see how often Heavies insta-spin-and-win even after you've shanked them just so. Feel free to switch between Knives and Shotguns at will; the same general concepts, mechanics and caveats apply. I suspect you'll discover that not only are your assertions flawed, but why they are flawed. Knowledge acquired firsthand is best knowledge. Good luck. o7 PS: No HP modules! If you're claiming an inability to pull off a headshot in cq from behind with a shotgun, then, as I referenced previously, I don't believe you actually play the game. Vid or lies, brother. If there isn't a headshot multiplier to melee-based weaponry, well thats a different subject that you're more than welcome to open a thread about outside of the current EWAR thread we are in. Same for wonky hit-detection. I am a Logistics primary. I have very little speed, very little hp, and only a single weapon. When I am separated from my squad shooting people in the back, the head, and the back of the head is the only way I make it to them. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2214	Posted - 2014.11.15 20:31:00 - [274] - Quote @CCP Rattati I apologize for having caused this thread to devolve and spiral off topic. I stand by my assertion that Plates should not affect profile whatsoever. I stand by my assertion that all Shield mods should carry a Sig Profile penalty. I stand by my assertion that Scouts should only be worried about Sig tanking. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 422	Posted - 2014.11.15 22:28:00 - [275] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile. I'm trying to imagine how battlefield would look like with that change, and I think it would have similar impact as -85% on scan radius while cloaked - if you have in you fitting useless module get rid of it - and that how precision enhancers and range amplifiers were replaced by shield extenders and armor plates or kin's in my case. There are scouts that fit for example 4 complex armor plate and cloak, they do not care about they signature because many solo players simply can not see them(not because they are invisible, more likely because they do not pay attention to shimmering objects on they screens). A lot of people in topic talk about they dropsuit passive scan radius and how they would tweak them across dropsuit size, like Dust is solo game and there is no such thing like squad sharing tacnet - all they forget is that all they really need is amarr'ian scout in squad that is fitted only with precision's enhancers and range amplifiers, and that's it(who would want to run around completely alone in heavy suit?!). So I think that all this change will do, is to push players further into specializations and scouts that care more about they ehp rather then signature will continue to stack plates and extenders. I also think that giving all weapons signature profile, would mix more current situation then changing extenders and armor plates, and it would allow modifies players fittings more directly - like by adding more signature to Shotgun then to Plasama Rifle - so using Shotgun would bring more risk in to the game, by disclosure position of the scout when he is using weapon. So, I'm suggesting to add two signature values to each weapon - passive that adds signature to our fitting when weapon is fitted to dropsuit, and active , that replaces passive signature when weapon is used(fired) by player. - So for examples when someone is using weapon with high active signatures his dropsuit signatures rise to level that everyone around see him(it's laud so it is simpler to locate sound source by dropsuit). Each weapon passive signature should be separate on three category. They should be depended on weapon size(Heavy, Light, Sidearm). Generally passive signature values should be very low compare to weapons active signatures values... I do not have numbers but the whole idea could: - force stealthy scouts to consider fitting just one weapon instead of two, and maybe a sidearm rather then light weapon, - make shotgun scouts 'visible' when they are active and trying to hunt something, and other players as well if they use loud weapon.. etc. it's late, I run out of fuel. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Mima Sebiestor Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.11.16 14:31:00 - [276] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Could do Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) What you can't do, may be balanced instead by reducing the squad size to 3. This would also help with team balancing. What is easy, is understandable. I wouldn't expect to ever see the direction a vehicle is aiming. What could be done, may reduce Logi survivability. IMO, precision pairs better within a hunter role. Squad vision allows SP investment (Precision/Range Enhancement) from a single user to have up to a x6 potential. SP reset and imbalance makes it too easy to find a scout to join the squad. In close formation with their squad, one scout can supply an EWAR mechanic (theoretical modules) for up to 5 other suits. This condition: allows for 'free modules', can't be removed, and is a problem. So reduce squad size, and reevaluate WP cost for strikes. Vehicle sharing allows SP investment (Vehicle Skills) from a single user to have up to a x16 potential. SP reset and Proto BPO suits which require no skill allow vehicle users 'easier' isk when deployed in 50 clone (non-OMS) ambush. This also allows for players to respec out of vehicles, if they can depend on a vehicle specialist. I can buy a better vehicle from a squad mate and keep my SP into suits. However, I can not sell my suit nor lend out my effectiveness. Also, when I fly a mobile CRU, I can not land and drop uplinks. If I do, a blueberry will spawn on descent, wait for me to hop out, and then fly away with my ship. This condition allows for 'free SP', same-team vehicle theft, and is a problem for the SP and isk economy. So please, sell the keys of a vehicle only to it's owner. Vehicle seeing utilizes the driver's drop suit precision and range (passive). Profile is determined by the vehicle, due to it's size. If this is correct, couldn't size also be a factor for each EWAR aspect? Vehicles should be included into EWAR beyond just their active scanner. Imagine passive and range modules, reflective of the size (light/heavy) of a vehicle. Maybe we could see dampened/cloaked vehicles. However this turns out, SP investment into a drop suit's EWAR should not affect vehicular performance. Should you introduce pilot suits, these could apply a bonus on top of your vehicle skills. As it is, scouts can serve EWAR in a suit and in a tank. 2 for 1, is a problem. So, please introduce pilot suits and vehicular precision/range. Animations are what we see, but not what we get. When we reload, we start one such animation. However, it is easy to find that this does not need to be completed. You can terminate the animation early when you begin another animation, such as sprinting. And although termination was early, you may find that you have 'timed it well' and completed the reload anyhow. I believe this has led to our problem with too many scouts. Please stop worrying about the animations for RE dropping and decloaking, and review the actual time-to-activate, during gameplay, before any more... attempts. Thanks for listening! I eat pesticides
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4559	Posted - 2014.11.16 14:53:00 - [277] - Quote Ugh.. Seriously, if we are going to reduce squad sizes (Which I'm totally fine with for pubs, btw, in fact take them totally out if ambush, IMO) can we at least try to make the math sensible? As in, can we please make squad size divisible evenly into team size? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7919	Posted - 2014.11.16 16:15:00 - [278] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ugh.. Seriously, if we are going to reduce squad sizes (Which I'm totally fine with for pubs, btw, in fact take them totally out if ambush, IMO) can we at least try to make the math sensible? As in, can we please make squad size divisible evenly into team size? At least it makes the choices easy 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 man squads are the only possibilities. Which means you get to choose between 2 and 4 man squads. Oh look, we have 4 man squads. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Mima Sebiestor Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:48:00 - [279] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Ugh.. Seriously Oh look, we have 4 man squads. I apologize for being too serious... I looked again and I couldn't find 4 mercenary (max) squads. I believe a 3 mercenary max could be a fun solution to EWAR, outside the ease with dividing a team of 16 evenly. Imagine the 3 mercenaries in a LAV, HAV, or ADS filling up one full squad. This pairs well with vehicles having either 3 seats or 3 guns. They could be filled with a scout, a logi, and a sentinel. Or one each: pilot, assault, and commando. A light, medium, and heavy. Dividing evenly, right in two, is an easy choice, that does not reflect positively in my experience.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11477	Posted - 2014.11.17 08:28:00 - [280] - Quote New thread on EWAR is up "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"




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