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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7447
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
My opinion on the new eWAR ideas.
Active Scanners should work like Sonar Pings. Decent range, Decent Cooldown and would be used to "Ping" areas to check for people.
People would never be lit up for long. Maximum of 2 to 3 seconds. They would be used to ask "Is there anyone guarding this point?" rather than "Show me where everyone is at".
You would walk up to a corner and think "This is a great place for an ambush". Pull out scanner and PING, there's three guys around the corner. Lets you know not to turn the corner. Or to see if people are on the objective.
Active Scanners are made to temporarily "scout" objectives without putting someone in harms way. They should be difficult to dodge, except for scouts. Scouts once again need to be able to dodge practically all scans (Save focused) with a good damped fit. Scanned scouts are typically dead scouts, and we don't want that.
Spy Uplinks should then be a scout tool. Scouts really have no role right now except for "dodging scans". We need a reconnaissance role. We would damp, and go behind enemy lines to lace the area with these, lighting up people in the city with our scans. They would be team-shared. They must also NOT be able to scan scouts running 2 or more damps and a cloak. Otherwise, these would have no real counter (We all remember omniscient installations). Set up by scouts, and removed by scouts. Maintaining eWAR superiority should be the SCOUTS job.
With these changes, this is what I want to see a typical scout set up be:
Min Scout MK.0
1x Complex Shield
2x Complex Precision
Light Weapon
Sidearm
Grenade (Flux FTW)
Proto Cloak
Proto Motion Detector (My new name for the spy link)
2x Damps
1x Range or Utility Module (Speed, Codebreakers etc.)
Note how it is made for eWAR, with Scans made to detect other frames (Which will all be damping somewhat with the Motion Detectors) and navigate around them. Weapons are used to remove targets that HAVE to be removed (One guy camping a point, running across another scout etc.).
Now how would these work together?
Think of it this way. You have a squad of 6: 3 Assaults, 1 Heavy, 1 Logi, 1 Scout. A typical squad, made to assault an objective. We approach the objective, halting behind cover at about 75m out (Well outside of passive scan range for most scouts). Logi puts down a scan, revealing that there are roughly 5 targets inside, possibly a scout as well, due to the margin of error.
Squad hangs back a bit, scout moves up. He uses his cloak to get in on the objective and throws a flux onto the enemies motion detector. Squad moves in, ready to assault. Scout notices that another motion detector has been thrown down, and goes to remove that as well. As long as he removes the detectors, the enemy squad is blind, unless the other scout de-cloaks. The scouts are fighting for eWAR superiority.
Meanwhile, the squad below is engaging. The logi is smart, and running some range amps and a single precision to help out his heavy, while the assaults go in and try to seperate the enemy squad. The enemy scout de-cloaks to try and help his team, but is quickly killed by our scout (who is very good at his job). With the other scout eliminated, he plops down his own motion detector, and walks about removing uplinks and equipment while he can.
Do you see how I want eWAR to work? How scouts would be fighting their own battles: Fighting for eWAR control, rather than slaying everyone.
This is what I want.
What do you think Rattati?
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7617
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 06:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Copy Paste from Zatara's thread. After reading the post from Rattati and thinking about the equipment and changes, I decided that I wanted scouts to have a definitive role in eWAR and get bonuses toward it and WP from it. The new equipment I felt gave me a way to do so.
First off: Kills from any team member in your "Motion Detectors" radius gives you +15 WP per kill or +25 from squad mates.
Scouts need to have a role that isn't killing. Giving penalties to HP mods on scouts is a good step, but we need a tangible eWAR role and rewards for our job if you want to take us off the front lines. At the same time, you can't make us useless in combat, as this is an FPS and I still want to shoot people. I just don't want that to be my main job.
For example: Lets say that the new "Motion Detector" equip idea goes through.
Min Scouts would have a bonus to this Detectors Precision, profile dampening, and a NK bonus. This makes them good at detecting targets, staying hidden, and assassination. By using their speed and passive dampening, they can get behind lines, plop down a detector and assassinate targets behind enemy lines, even if they are dampened.
Gal Scouts would have a bonus to this detectors Range, profile dampening, and Codebreakers. This makes them effective at infiltration with dampening and codebreakers to quickly flip enemy munitions and objectives. The range boost helps those links keep targets lit up for the team.
Amarr scouts would have a bonus to detectors Range, scan precision, and Armor Repair. Excellent at point defense due to their higher average HP, a detector has extended range for med frames and good precision for detection of damped units getting close to the objective. Armor repair helps them maintain combat effectiveness, as their large (comparatively) armor tank can take awhile to regen.
Caldari Scouts would have a bonus to detectors precision, scan range, and scan precision. The eWAR specialists, they are best suited to maintaining high fidelity scans all around them, with decent range to boot. However, they are easier to detect when compared to other scouts, and rely on their shielding and eWAR to help them survive.
These aren't concrete examples, but they give you an idea of what I want. Each has a definitive role as you can see: which can be summarized as follows:
NOTE: These roles are defined towards med frames. Scout v Scout combat is still very much a "fight in the dark" if both sides are fitted properly. This is necessary to prevent any one of the scouts from being able to scan and trump the others, like we had way back in Caldari Scout514
Minmatar: Hunters
Gallente: Infiltrators
Amarr: Defenders
Caldari: Detectors
I also tried to throw in some limiting factors.
Gallente and Minmatar are strongest when their equipment is deployed. The Minmatar's and Gallente's equipment precision/range lets them detect their targets and assassinate them. Without it, they are blind essentially, due to lack of eWAR modules and their cloak field. For them to succeed, they need to be able to infiltrate an area and lay down their equipment, and are kinda limited to that area. The Minmatar is confined to a small, but precise area, being able to detect lone enemies when they pass though, or bail if they see a full squad. Or even set up a deadly trap with remote explosives (This is how I've always imagined the Minmatar, but we have terrible eWAR. I've always wanted that changed)
The Gallente has a much larger area to work with, but is susceptible to a scout or heavily damped unit coming into their area. To counter this, the Gallente are also heavily damped, and sport a decent armor tank. They can easily run into a person and win due to their armor and high damage plasma weaponry. Hack mods are used to quickly hack enemy munitions and null cannons, useful when behind enemy lines.
Amarr and Caldari have strong eWAR on their own, and benefit the team when their equipment is deployed. For example: The Cal scout really doesn't even need the equipment himself. His own passive eWAR is strong enough. His strength is by being able to effectively cover two area's at once, since he can plop down his detector and put himself elsewhere. For example, he can put a motion detector into a high traffic area and sit back at range with a RR, lighting people up as they walk in. If someone comes to kill him, he uses his passive eWAR to detect them, cloak and avoid. If they have good precision and keep stalking you, you can slowly pull them toward other team-mates, setting up an ambush.
The Amarr also has high fidelity scans, and has the low slots to fit range extenders. He helps his team by placing himself on the point and his equipment in an area where it can cover the most ground. With his high stamina, defense and hack speed, he is perfect for roaming the city, looking for targets (Such as that pesky minmatar scout or gallente) and then being able to make it back to an objective and counter hack when he gets there (Being able to detect the lone soldier that did it and eliminate him).
Get the picture?
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7617
|
Posted - 2014.11.12 06:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Part II:
All these stats being said: I also want to get rid of tons of HP on scouts.
I never EVER want to see a scout with more HP than this in their main tank (Shields or Armor)
Minmatar: 270 (2 Complex Shields)
Caldari: 308 (2 Complex Shields)
Gallente: 327 (2 Complex Ferroscales)
Amarr: 377 (2 Complex Ferroscales)
Hopefully with the way the bonuses play out and other mods are encouraged, this will be the ideal amount of health a scout will run with.
Optimal fits I see with the above:
Minmatar: 2x Shields, 1x Precision (or sidearm damage) 2x Damp 1x Speed (2 damps are needed to counter the profile penalty from shields)
Gallente: 1x Shield, 1x Precision 2x Damp (Shield would add profile) 1x Ferro 1x Repair (Decent spread of speed, stealth, and regen, all needed for an infiltrator)
Amarr: 2x Precision, 2x Ferro 1x Repair 1x Damp
Caldari: 2x Shields 2x Precision 1x Damp 1x Range
I tried to separate them into "Offensive oriented scouts" and "Defense oriented scouts", with both having good bonuses for eWAR in both situations and still maintain combat effectiveness. Hell, I even gave away my favorite bonus in the game (Hack Speed) to the Amarr because it just made more sense to me from the new role perspective I gave.
As I said, It's not perfect, and there are probably a few flaws in here, but this is the kind of interaction I want.
Hope you see this Rattai. I already sent a post to Zatara and told him to look over it. I've been a scout since Uprising 1.0 and I hate what we have become.
Slayers need to go back to their assault suits, let scouts do some SCOUTING.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7819
|
Posted - 2014.11.14 23:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Gee golly me,
I wonder why people want HEALTH?
Especially in a game centered
On the KILLING of someone else?
In a genre called First Person Shooter,
The idea people would try to survive,
Is a concept claimed unclear only to those
Who have something else to hide.
And of those folks whose opinions
Are made up of such irrefutable fact
Its obvious they don't share from their main ID
Lest their true intentions be unmasked.
Can we please make it a forum rule that all arguments must be held in this fashion?
PLEASE?
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7847
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 15:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile
IMHO, plates should have nothing to do with Sig Profile. They should be balanced solely by their movement penalty, though I do think that the penalty should scale by frame size (Light frames get affected more by adding plates to their stripped down suits, Medium suits are affected normally, Heavys less so). All Shield mods on the other hand should affect Sig Profile. If you stack nothing but Shield mods you should be exceedingly easy to find (even on a Scout).
How would you balance the Cal or Minmatar scout then?
Remember, they have VERY little eHP and not too many low slots.
Not only that, but the Minmatar scout has a very unique niche. It NEEDS to run at least a single Kincat or Codebreaker if it wants to remain competitive.
If you don't balance their skills accordingly, they will be marginalized in favor of the armor tank scouts.
Now I'm not saying that shield scouts should happily stack shield mods all day, but what I'm saying is that they still need to be able to fit some health without completely blowing their stealth out of the water.
Check my previous posts about scout HP. They should be able to fit 1-2 health mods per scout (Shields or Ferro/Reactive plates) while maintaining proper dampening.
This puts typical HP values for each scout within the 250-400 range, which is perfectly acceptable for a scout.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7919
|
Posted - 2014.11.16 16:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Ugh.. Seriously, if we are going to reduce squad sizes (Which I'm totally fine with for pubs, btw, in fact take them totally out if ambush, IMO) can we at least try to make the math sensible? As in, can we please make squad size divisible evenly into team size?
At least it makes the choices easy
1, 2, 4, 8, 16 man squads are the only possibilities.
Which means you get to choose between 2 and 4 man squads.
Oh look, we have 4 man squads.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
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