DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] EWAR Ideas

Prinny Waters wrote:

It probably hasn't been addressed as it forces cloaks rather than leaves them as an option. That is messed up in so many ways... Only having ewar while cloaked would also force a pretty hefty nerf on the cloaking field themselves as, currently, you'd be able to cloak and regain your vision so often that losing it would be temporary at best.

Plus, it means that cloakers have no incentive to do move around while uncloaked and full scans means they'll be able to see if it is safe to decloak. Sure, they will lose a bit of time hoping from cover to cover in order to keep up the cloak time they need to pounce/flee as necessary but the best you could hope for is the old advantage with a map travel time of a Logistics suit.

Also doesn't solve the whole "Killing people before the invisibility wears off" thing since they'd never want to be visible and could do all of their repositioning whilst invisible.... Which is why cloaked shotgun/nova knife is currently so ridiculous...


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1561	Posted - 2014.11.06 07:27:00 - [1] - Quote In regards to spy uplinks? I'd love to see them be a piece of heavy-only equipment. It helps their point defense role out massively. they become vulnerable on the move, but strong on a fortified position. Make it function like a cross between a drop uplink and an active scanner, where you'd functionally have 'infinite' of them but they wouldn't be up all the time. Toss out one it picks up anything within say 25m of it for say 30 seconds, with a 1minute cooldown and a limit of 1 active, after that 1 minute you can deploy another. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1561	Posted - 2014.11.06 08:30:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: In regards to spy uplinks? I'd love to see them be a piece of heavy-only equipment. It helps their point defense role out massively. they become vulnerable on the move, but strong on a fortified position. Make it function like a cross between a drop uplink and an active scanner, where you'd functionally have 'infinite' of them but they wouldn't be up all the time. Toss out one it picks up anything within say 25m of it for say 30 seconds, with a 1minute cooldown and a limit of 1 active, after that 1 minute you can deploy another. Cool idea Thank you, I was inspired by some of the stuff that exists within Tribes: Ascend for their heavy classes. Some classes have deployable turrets, others have a deployable wall (with a HP value) that damages people going through it based on how fast they're traveling, the snipers have a deployable wide-area anti-radar-anti-visual cloak field that stops working once you're inside of it, and so much more. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1563	Posted - 2014.11.06 19:32:00 - [3] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: 01010100011010000110010100100000011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001001000000110100101101110001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101000110100001110010011001010110000101100100001000000110100101110011001000000111010001101111011011110010000001100100011000010110110101101110001000000110100001101001011001110110100000100001 God damnit, guys, synonyms. Dual nature. Two-sided nature. Duality. Black and white. It just makes it look like you're hoping on a bandwagon when you spew "binary" 514 times in a single post, like the times when we had people talking about "TTK" as if they knew what it really meant. Wish I could say something on-topic, but I don't play enough anymore to contribute anything more meaningful without making a fool of myself. Do you understand what binary is? It's zeros and ones because they represent a state of something being either off or on. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1564	Posted - 2014.11.07 10:26:00 - [4] - Quote Heard an interesting proposal for scouts... Currently a large part of the problem is that their scanning is always incredibly powerful... What if (just hear me out on this). We made their scanning ranges WEAKER when in their non-cloaked combat mode... and then we made their scanning STRONGER while in their cloaked mode. Say they only have 15m range while uncloaked, but when cloaked that jumps up to 50m This does a few things - It incentivises not only fitting cloaks but fitting better cloaks so you have a longer amount of time to choose your fights, in addition it tones down some of the issues that we're currently seeing where scouts really just get too much of practically everything that is useful. If they want to gather intel and lurk around their squad, they have to be invisible and unable to use their weapon. If they want to fight they have to give up their OP Godmode wallhack scans. Just need to jump up their delay before being able to fire so that transition between 'modes' isn't an instant process and make the decloaking sound a bit louder. Essentially it means that when they go into 'combat' mode, they're just really, really fragile suits with low profile, when they go into cloaked mode they get to do their ewar stuff but they give up being able to fight. I think we may have been thinking about this 'problem' in the wrong manner. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1564	Posted - 2014.11.07 10:31:00 - [5] - Quote Mark Crusader wrote: While we are looking at introducing "Spylinks", why not consider an entire set of racial EWAR equipment. This would go a long ways towards diversifying gameplay. (C) Signature Enhancer - increases the signature profile of enemies within range making them easier to detect (A) Scanner Beacon - pulses active scans every few seconds revealing nearby enemies (G) Scan Dampener - decreases the signature profile of friendlies within range, hiding them from enemy scans (M) Decoy Emitter - causes random red-blips to momentarily appear on enemy minimaps With a full set of place-able EWAR equipment, fitting bonuses can be assigned to racial dropsuits. Lore buffs might notice that the proposed equipment counters and complements each other along racial lines ;) You'd need to switch the cal and min equipment to represent what the races actually do. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1574	Posted - 2014.11.10 04:41:00 - [6] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: It probably hasn't been addressed as it forces cloaks rather than leaves them as an option. That is messed up in so many ways... Only having ewar while cloaked would also force a pretty hefty nerf on the cloaking field themselves as, currently, you'd be able to cloak and regain your vision so often that losing it would be temporary at best. Plus, it means that cloakers have no incentive to do move around while uncloaked and full scans means they'll be able to see if it is safe to decloak. Sure, they will lose a bit of time hoping from cover to cover in order to keep up the cloak time they need to pounce/flee as necessary but the best you could hope for is the old advantage with a map travel time of a Logistics suit. Also doesn't solve the whole "Killing people before the invisibility wears off" thing since they'd never want to be visible and could do all of their repositioning whilst invisible.... Which is why cloaked shotgun/nova knife is currently so ridiculous... You got a second equipment slot for the cloak specifically. It should be something that is role defining if you have a second equipment slot just for it, and a 75% fitting cost reduction towards it. Right now, electronic warfare on scouts is ridiculous because they have access to it at all times - if it was forced to be a choice for say tactical infiltration so you pick out and assassinate specific targets, that would be good, because scouts would no longer be the "light assault" murdermachines that people currently play them as. You are conflating the issues with decloak delay, with overall scout balance. Scouts should not be desireable to play as 'light assaults' when decloaked they should really feel the disadvantages of non-bonused weapons or high hp totals. With cloak changes in this manner you make a choice between combat or ewar, a choice scouts don't currently make, they get both combat ability and ewar. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1575	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:19:00 - [7] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: If the slot were truly dedicated to cloaks then I would be arbitrarily forced to use it. As I choose not use it and, thanks to ewar, am not being arbitrarily punished for it my quality of life is improved. I was around when the cloak was first brought up. Scouts did not want to lose their nanite injectors or active scanners (for spin scanning) just for a cloaking device, they demanded a second equipment slot. You choose not to use a cloak on your scout because your scout is perfectly overpowered without it - you do not have to make a choice between combat ability and ewar wallhacks that is the problem - meaningfully addressing this would take away the ewar wallhacks while scouts are in combat mode and return the crazy ewar abilities only while in the non-combat cloak mode. Prinny Waters wrote: Scouts currently lose 85% of their scan range while cloaked, meaning that them not being able to be seen also means they no longer see around walls. When they are, themselves, extremely difficult to find they lose the ability to plan ahead as they must now hope they are safe when they decloak. Additionally, they now have to be concerned about someone outside of their field of vision covering whomever it is they are trying to murder as they cannot see anywhere else exclusively whilst cloaked. This is not a meaningful disadvantage to scouts. They can get by without cloaks due to powerful ewar, in short if you are 'good' a cloak is a disadvantage to you, rather than being something the defines the role. A cloak hurts more than it helps at high skill levels. What Ceej's proposed change would do is force scouts to make a plan, attempt to execute, and then fade once executed so they can re-evaluate engagement options rather than being able to perform re-evaluations in the middle of combat. Prinny Waters wrote: As for the conflating of problems, the aforementioned range reduction was designed to lessen the insta-kill cloaking problem. The proposal to do the exact opposite and make cloaked scouts the only ones good at finding and murdering people would compound the problem and is therefore a very big part of the discussion that needs addressing. As only cloaked scouts will get ewar and ewar is essential to compensating for the difference in hp, dropsuit bonus. Do also keep in mind that Caldari and Amarr scouts would lose their race bonus if not cloaked. No, it wasn't it was to make scouts have a deficit, the delay before firing (which is being increased) is the attempted fix for 'insta-kill cloaking'. A scout should be able to find and murder people - they should be forced to re-evaluate after that single target. The could certainly be a minimum duration of cloaked time necessary before you get the ewar bonuses. In regards to 'taking away bonuses', no one needs the ability to see 40-70m+ with high precision at all times that is blatantly overpowered, it is compounded by allowing everyone in your squad to also see these people. As soon as spin scanning was fixed everyone jumped over to scouts (in particular the cal scout). Prinny Waters wrote: When it comes to choice, do you really want people's options to be "Scout with cloak or something else?" Because making cloaks mandatory would turn non-cloaked scouts into Assaults whom miss out on their race bonuses and lose half of their health. If you really want scout speed put on a few kinetics and bask in how fast you are while still having health THATS THE **ING POINT. People shouldn't be playing scouts as light assaults. They should be scouts who take targets of opportunity when available. Assaults should be the main "I want to ing shoot people" platform. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1575	Posted - 2014.11.10 05:56:00 - [8] - Quote Prinny Waters wrote: words. You're looking at this and going "they want to buff cloaks! that's crazy" when you should be going "They want to nerf ewar, and then use cloaks to define the scouts role" I can understand why you wouldn't want ewar changed or it made so you 'have' to fit a cloak, but currently ewar is the problem (that's why we have this thread!). If scouts had 'normal' ewar capabilities while uncloaked, people wouldn't prefer them over the suits that are meant to be 'in the fight', because honestly they'd be 'bad' at it with their 'low' hp and somewhat deterministic slot layouts. They would then have the option and incentive to not only fit cloaks, but to fit good cloaks in order to play towards their ewar role. Shouting about how you don't want to feel forced to fit cloaks is like listening to a logi complain that they don't want to feel forced to use equipment, they'd rather use that extra fitting to be better at murdering people instead. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.