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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Haerr
Dead Man's Game RUST415
1809
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Posted - 2014.11.06 14:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Everyone, post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta.
Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (-5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (-5)
[Feedback] EWAR Ideas - Scan Table
Scan Profiles and Scan Precisions for suits are found on the "input" sheet.
How to play around with the numbers.
"File" -> "Make a Copy..." Type in a name and press "OK"
Since the tables rely on a script for sorting and colouring you will have to start the script and allow it to run.
"Tools" -> "Script Editor..." "Run" "Continue" "Accept"
After you have done this the tables will automatically be updated, sorted, and coloured when you change the value in one of the cells with black background colour in the input sheet.
Once you have changed a value wait for the loading bar in the top right of the window to finish before you change an other value. |
matsumoto yuichi san
The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance
80
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Posted - 2014.11.06 14:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
well, i liked an earlier suggestion of passives are minimap only, and actives get chevrons, unless you "tag" an enemy by looking at them visually. but some amount of non binary-ness would be nice precision = profile 50% chance, for each 1 point one way or the other +- 3% (multiplicative) respectively
profileprecisiondetect % 301285.12165306 301382.64238161 301480.23532195 301577.89837083 301675.62948624 301773.42668567 301871.28804434 301969.21169354 302067.19581897 302165.23865919 302263.33850407 302361.49369327 302459.70261483 302557.96370372 302656.2754405 302754.63635 302853.045 302951.5 303050 293048.54368932 283047.12979546 273045.75708297 263044.4243524 253043.13043922 243041.87421283 233040.65457557 223039.47046172 213038.32083662 203037.20469574 193036.12106383 183035.06899401 173034.047567 163033.05589029 153032.09309737 143031.15834696 133030.25082229 123029.36973038
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4558
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Posted - 2014.11.06 14:17:00 -
[63] - Quote
Christ on a crutch man fix your table or spreadsheet dat shizz.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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shaman oga
The Dunwich Horror
3041
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 14:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
- I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam
- Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field & Reduce Scan duration across the board
- Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad on
I like the rest, i've divided answer to be more clear.
- Then i would say that rep on non squad members should not give WP, i do not agree, but if you like this way, please at least increase WP reward for intel.
- I agree, but we should be able to scan more frequently, 40 seconds are an eternity in a FPS, you can spawn and die 3 times.
- I don't see the point of this, unless you are planning to give the same slot layout progression of assaults to logis.
4 November 2014 - the most funny day in Dust514
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
48
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Posted - 2014.11.06 15:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: * Maybe - Remove all directional information about the enemy (bad idea to buff Heavies) Good - Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel Good - Sentinel has better precision (+5) Very Good - Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi Meh - Logi has better precision (would recommend range buff instead) Meh - Extenders and Plates add signature profile (yes to plates; no to extenders/ferro/reactive) Good - Spy uplinks Meh - Reduce range of Active Scanners by 50% (200m Creodron Flux is the problem). * Bad - Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15 Good - STD Active scanner only sees STD EQ Meh - Reduce Scan duration across the board Meh - Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only (200m Creodron Flux is the problem). Good - Orbital EMP strikes
* Detailed explanation: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2443076#post2443076 |
Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
438
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 16:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Actually, I just thought of some cool ideas:
"Spy Uplinks" Make them as infantry proximity mines instead of permanent scanners. Instead of blowing up, the mines (when triggered) light up on radar. That way you will only get information somebody is close, but don't have any information about number and exact location. (Perfect to set as guards for flanking manoeuvres)
Multiple scanning radius I don't know if it is feasible or not, but if you could add multiple scanning profiles on objects you can achieve a "pseudo" falloff effect. I know you added something for vehicles in 1.9 which made them more visible.
The idea is that instead of ON/OFF based on profile strength and a fixed radius, you have three (or more) separate settings. This would enable the profile to artificially drop of based on distance, still using the current system.
I.e Profile 1: 45db - 10m radius Profile 2: 35db - 20m radius Profile 3: 20db - 30m radius
The same could be made for active scanners, where multiple values can reduce the accuracy based on distance.
Note: * the above is just an example and I pulled the values from the blue.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4565
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Posted - 2014.11.06 16:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
I thoroughly disagree with you on every single thing you flag "bad"
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
317
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Posted - 2014.11.06 16:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
The issue with ewar was scouts are invisible, and to catch them you needed a gal logi with proto scans. The answer to invisible suits is to make suits harder to detect? Killin the gal logi bonus with the nerfs, also showing a poor understanding of how scans work.
- Cutting range of active scanners by 50% :All scannsers have 100 meter range except the creodorn flux (200m). The question you should ask before you nerf is Whats is the usefulness of a 50m range scanner? Why should i bother to fit one
- Reduce duration: duration is already short enough to have to fit multplie scanners on the same suit to have a decent veiw of the battle field. 3 seconds scans for every 30 seconds cooldown is poorly though out.
-Giving all frames the same passive range: Giving heavies the same passive scans as scouts, assaults and logis , doesn't look good at all on paper. Putting two range amplifiers on my heavy suit, scan all before me and still have 1000 + ehp, nobody sees an issue with that?
- Invisible proxy mines? Will you be buffing the vehicle scanner to compensate?
Just asking hard questions. Going down this route, give the gal logi some other bonus, his equipment is about to get wrecked.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
52
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Posted - 2014.11.06 16:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I thoroughly disagree with you on every single thing you flag "bad" No doubt, and I am sure many other Heavies share in your opinion. Do you think your kind would still dominate PC if all your EWAR dreams came true? |
One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5574
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 17:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
Why are you buffing heavies with all these changes?
You just showed us data that they are PC monsters, with only the Gal scout being a real problem.
There are 3 other scout races and other scout roles.
Spy uplinks would just be a return to Omniscient Installations that negated any stealth hackers. And since you can't take passive scans away from heavies that don't have to sacrifice for it, why would you give them some more ability to see, and add on top of that a lack of directional arrow so no one knows which way to sneak up on them.
What happened to making EWAR bonuses module based instead of passive? What happened to doubling speed penalty on scouts for armor plates? Those were reasonable changes.
1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
832
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Posted - 2014.11.06 18:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
I strongly disagree with putting scans at a base value of 15 m for all frames. In general I'm strongly against the proliferation of ewar. The wallhack diminishes the amount of player skill required and puts more emphasis on knowing your scan-tables.
If you think scout ewar is too strong I'd suggest keeping it at a default 10 m for non-scouts and reverting it to pre-1.8 15 m for scouts.
Alternatively I'd trade you 15 m default scan range for a 50% nerf to all other scan range bonuses (modules, range amplification and CalScout suit command). The gist of it is that less passive scanning is straight up better for everyone in the game, even scouts. |
Haerr
Dead Man's Game RUST415
1813
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 18:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
I've updated the Scan Table for Hotfix Echo, added all the different suits to both the dampening and scanning sides.
The old link is now dead.
Edit: Scan Table - Hotfix Echo |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18749
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 18:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Some of these are decent ideas. Removing the directional arrow from tacnet = wonderful. That's an excellent change and it means that sneaking up on someone is not necessarily completely trivial when you have them scanned.
As for some of the other things, though... I have concerns.
Quote: Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only
Do active scanners really need such a massive amount of nerfing? They've far from what they were. They've only gone back into use because now they're visible to the whole team.
Reducing the range of scanners by 50% immediately means that an EWAR scout becomes far more valuable, even if you nerf their precision and scan range. Unless you use a flux scanner (which has -significant- tradeoffs - it is painful to use that scan angle) you've got a trivial range below the optimal of many weapons.
Even if you nerf scout scan range down to 15m, by sticking a couple of range amplifiers on a scout you get:
+ A longer scan range + 360 degree scans - That is six times the radius of active scanners and means that you don't need any clue where your opponent is, it will light them up regardless + Permascans, not 2 second lightups with a 15 second cooldown + No need to equip the scanner to use it, you can have your weapon out + No revealing 'You have been scanned' message informing the target that they've been scanned.
Active scanners are not nearly so powerful that they require such a heavy handed approach. With the team vision change they've just become useful enough to warrant using. Before that, they were not viable.
Does that one change mean that they need to be nerfed further to the point of uselessness? Reverse that change, if you must, but such a comprehensive and heavy set of nerfs will completely destroy the scanner.
As for the focused scanner... 5 second duration. >40 second cooldown< 40 second cooldown is insane. The precision bonus you get over normal scanners for using it is already easily paid for by that trade-off. It cannot possibly require nerfing for being too powerful. The focused scanner occupies a particular niche of uselessness - It does not need to be used for the majority of targets and is worse at scanning the unwashed masses, but targets that might require its use are likely to be dampening and any scout that dampens can evade even a proto Gallogi with a focused scanner. Even though it's a mere 5 second visibility window with a painfully narrow angle every 40 seconds, it cannot scan any target that does not wish to be seen. It doesn't need more tradeoffs for what it is.
Frankly, I think it should be buffed, rather than nerfed. Take it back to squad sight only if you must, but give it a higher precision so that it can scan targets that aren't thoroughly dampened. The proliferation of focused scanners is vastly over-exaggerated - I can count the number of times that I have been scanned in a dampened fit on one hand.
I am concerned for the role of the Gallogi with this set of changes. What is it, exactly? As a scan platform? A scout will be far superior even if you nerf the scout scans heavily.
Quote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile
This is quite a significant change. What kind of profile changes would we be talking about? I have quite a few concerns about this but if it depends on the numbers we're talking about. Will it bring a tanked assault into the zone where they can be passively scanned by heavies?
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Haerr
Dead Man's Game RUST415
1820
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 18:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile How about giving Temporary (~3 sec) Scan Profile penalties to firing weapons and/or equipment? |
Cass Caul
1457
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 19:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Everyone,
post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta.
Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex
Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam
So let's focus on what can be done.
Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow [1]
Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) [2] Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile [3] Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC [4] Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field [5] Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others [6] STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. [7] Reduce Scan duration across the board [8] Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated [9] Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only
And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed.
Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios
1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener"
Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there.
I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off.
This thread has some traction. So I'll do what I usually do and make a preliminary post based on the OP then read the thread and make a second revised post. [1] Scan spam is a thing. Having a Scout in a squad to run passives is a thing. Sentinels are CQC gods, every map is tailored for CQC which means every Sentinel will gain added protection from the Assassin-Scouts that already need that level of intel and can still lose to the massive tank Sentinels have. . . There seems to be some disconnect going on. Why are Sentinels and Scouts doing so well? Have you tries thinking that it was because they are both using weapons that excel in close quarters and every map has enclosed null cannon consoles. You want to nerf these two because their performing well within their specialized area
[2] Logi: 45 precision, 50 profile; Assault: 50 precision, 45 Profile. Is that what you mean? the +/- sign are a bit confusing as it looks like you want Logi to go back to 50/50 from pre-1.8, I support that change if I got the numbers correct.
[3] This really isn't a good thing. At all. If you want a Medium Frame to engage in EWAR, which I personally do, adding profile penalties to HP mods really only inhibits this from ever happening. It's also an unnecessary "**** you" to Scouts that already sacrifice 2 modules to be dampened. We've gone over how the Min-Scout needs that third low slot to be effective, you're taking that away from them because they need to fit shields.
[4] They shouldn't be as good as active scanners. Numbers like 50 dB (STD), 40 dB (ADV) and 30 dB (PRO) seem fine.
[5] 100m is not "ultra range." It's the maximum distance your tacnet radar extends to. I do not like the idea of reducing the SQFT of active scanner.
[6] This is probably the worst part here. If Range Amps are only effective on Scout right now and not effective enough on the other suits. . . reducing scan range is just going to make it ****/worthless for scouts too. Please deffer to the thread "The Barbershop" as to why Scouts faught so hard to get back their original 25m base range. Scouts have 20m now. Go back to the Chromosome Values of 20m for everyone, 25m for Scouts. There. Done. Range Amps provide meaningful distance for everyone again.
[7] Are Proximity mines every going to get a buff? Because with the stupid beeping and low damage they're really only effective when friendly fire is on so that you can use a single proxi to set off regular remote explosives. not a comment on this idea at all, just need to keep pushing for proxi mines to get a buff they've needed for a long time.
[8] Unless you reduce cooldown by an equal percentage. . . then take another 5 seconds off of cool down active scanners aren't that good. This would be an unnecessary nerf that only makes sense because shared team and shared squad Active Scanners have the same precision. Nerf precision on shared team scanners.
[9] Please adjust Gal-Logi precision bonus to scan angle bonus. put the focused back at base 15. and see how things run when anyone can use a scanner again in PC.
On Hiatus.
This is my smartphone alt
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Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
292
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Everyone,
post 1.9 there have been a lot of calls for EWAR changes and I am all for another spin, anything to shake up the meta.
Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex
Supposed to do I am happy with Squad members only getting intel assists, otherwise we are promoting spam
So let's focus on what can be done.
Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow
Could do Commando should have better sig profile (-5) than Sentinel, Sentinel has better precision (+5) - skirmisher vs point defense Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile Spy uplinks - std only heavies, adv only mediums+, pro scouts+, this is to be able to use "motion sensors" to set up a defense in PC Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others STD Active scanner only sees STD Deployables, and so forth, Proximity AV Mines - get much better if they can't be seen, same with uplinks. Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only
And more, these were the basic premise. Combined with the Orbital EMP strikes, this could get very interesting indeed.
Math I didn't go all out and do every combination, but was playing with these scenarios
1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills" 1) "what if an Assault is running lvl 5 skills and a single complex dampener"
Both of them should have a good incentive to do, 1) should beat a lazy scout with no EWAR and STD Active Scanners, and 2) should beat an ADV active scanner. The key is to not jump to "everyone is a lvl 5proto Gallogi" and design from there.
I believe that most of these make sense and would make EWAR a lot less binary, even if binary in nature, and allow for awesome gameplay that makes skilling properly into roles pay off. I agree with most of these minus a few. 1. Scan duration. Active scanners are inferior to passives. The qq comes from " you have been scanned". Passives are always on, cheaper to fit, but do not display such a message. Combined with the scout suit the passives also create a situation were all suits can be seen as well as hide from vs active of seeing anything but a scout minus gal logi. I advocated for the nerf for the old scans and felt that trade off off directional scanning combined with the vulnerability of using it and still giving the scout a pass was a decent balance. If the duration is shortened and your other ewar changes go through, than more people will skill and you passives without the message being displayed. This will generate little to no qq, but is worse for the game.
2. Spy uplink. I like this idea but due to equipment spam would like to see it or any other deployable put on hold until you fix the spam issue that has been discussed.
At the end of the day I am happy with the direction that this game is headed, and am thankful of CCP turning this game around from where it was. It is a breath of fresh air that they are now listening to players with welll thought out ideas and are addressing long term concerns. If I had to offer CCP one bit of advice it would be to think outside of the box more and try to see how any purposed change will effect the game as a whole and weigh it vs the players concerns. Don't just bend over and submit to the qq if the solution hurts the game on the whole and exasperates the concerns of the players that were against it.
Sage /thread
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The-Errorist
SVER True Blood
839
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
I like all these proposed changes except adding a signature profile penalty to extenders/plates.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1563
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:01010100011010000110010100100000011000100110100101101110011000010111001001111001001000000110100101101110001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101000110100001110010011001010110000101100100001000000110100101110011001000000111010001101111011011110010000001100100011000010110110101101110001000000110100001101001011001110110100000100001
God damnit, guys, synonyms. Dual nature. Two-sided nature. Duality. Black and white. It just makes it look like you're hoping on a bandwagon when you spew "binary" 514 times in a single post, like the times when we had people talking about "TTK" as if they knew what it really meant.
Wish I could say something on-topic, but I don't play enough anymore to contribute anything more meaningful without making a fool of myself.
Do you understand what binary is? It's zeros and ones because they represent a state of something being either off or on.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1875
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:42:00 -
[79] - Quote
Give Ewar mods drawbacks rather than HP mods.
- Precision mods increase profile - Damp mods reduce range - Range mods reduce precision
You could possibly make these mods effect active scanners as well. So when using them, if you have a range amp you get more range on your scanner).
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
7447
|
Posted - 2014.11.06 20:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
My opinion on the new eWAR ideas.
Active Scanners should work like Sonar Pings. Decent range, Decent Cooldown and would be used to "Ping" areas to check for people.
People would never be lit up for long. Maximum of 2 to 3 seconds. They would be used to ask "Is there anyone guarding this point?" rather than "Show me where everyone is at".
You would walk up to a corner and think "This is a great place for an ambush". Pull out scanner and PING, there's three guys around the corner. Lets you know not to turn the corner. Or to see if people are on the objective.
Active Scanners are made to temporarily "scout" objectives without putting someone in harms way. They should be difficult to dodge, except for scouts. Scouts once again need to be able to dodge practically all scans (Save focused) with a good damped fit. Scanned scouts are typically dead scouts, and we don't want that.
Spy Uplinks should then be a scout tool. Scouts really have no role right now except for "dodging scans". We need a reconnaissance role. We would damp, and go behind enemy lines to lace the area with these, lighting up people in the city with our scans. They would be team-shared. They must also NOT be able to scan scouts running 2 or more damps and a cloak. Otherwise, these would have no real counter (We all remember omniscient installations). Set up by scouts, and removed by scouts. Maintaining eWAR superiority should be the SCOUTS job.
With these changes, this is what I want to see a typical scout set up be:
Min Scout MK.0
1x Complex Shield 2x Complex Precision
Light Weapon Sidearm Grenade (Flux FTW)
Proto Cloak Proto Motion Detector (My new name for the spy link)
2x Damps 1x Range or Utility Module (Speed, Codebreakers etc.)
Note how it is made for eWAR, with Scans made to detect other frames (Which will all be damping somewhat with the Motion Detectors) and navigate around them. Weapons are used to remove targets that HAVE to be removed (One guy camping a point, running across another scout etc.).
Now how would these work together?
Think of it this way. You have a squad of 6: 3 Assaults, 1 Heavy, 1 Logi, 1 Scout. A typical squad, made to assault an objective. We approach the objective, halting behind cover at about 75m out (Well outside of passive scan range for most scouts). Logi puts down a scan, revealing that there are roughly 5 targets inside, possibly a scout as well, due to the margin of error.
Squad hangs back a bit, scout moves up. He uses his cloak to get in on the objective and throws a flux onto the enemies motion detector. Squad moves in, ready to assault. Scout notices that another motion detector has been thrown down, and goes to remove that as well. As long as he removes the detectors, the enemy squad is blind, unless the other scout de-cloaks. The scouts are fighting for eWAR superiority.
Meanwhile, the squad below is engaging. The logi is smart, and running some range amps and a single precision to help out his heavy, while the assaults go in and try to seperate the enemy squad. The enemy scout de-cloaks to try and help his team, but is quickly killed by our scout (who is very good at his job). With the other scout eliminated, he plops down his own motion detector, and walks about removing uplinks and equipment while he can.
Do you see how I want eWAR to work? How scouts would be fighting their own battles: Fighting for eWAR control, rather than slaying everyone.
This is what I want.
What do you think Rattati?
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Booby Tuesdays
Tuesdays With Boobies
939
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:15:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Assault should have better sig profile (-5) than Logi, Logi has better precision (+5) Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile This may be an attempt to even the playing field with Scouts, and while it may help, all you are really doing is hurting Logis even further.
Don't the tiers of Scan Profile go up as you gain HP via your Dropsuit? What good is Precision when you are penalized for trying to add health to a slow, weak, and less battle capable suit? Is it so we can know when there is danger, and try and run away? Ever try running away in a Logi suit from the rifles that kill from 80+ meters?
I can just get under vehicle scans with lvl 5 Dampening and 1 Complex Damp. Now you are telling me that because I have some shields to help buff my whopping 90 starting shields, that I won't even be able to hide from a vehicle scanner? Yo no se....
( . )( . )
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
55
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Give Ewar mods drawbacks rather than HP mods.
- Precision mods increase profile - Damp mods reduce range - Range mods reduce precision
Have a look and see how HP is King. How would nerfing EWAR modules possibly shake up the meta, be it Assault Lite or otherwise? |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment.
159
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Made a suggestion here
Basically a low slot module "Scan Intensifier" that further increases precision but reduces range. This would be balanced so that a scout using these and precision enhancers could detect any scout regardless of dampening, but at shorter ranges (~10-20m, or whatever). This would counter the whole shotgun/damp/cloak exploitation and have the happy secondary effect of making the battlefield less scanny for medium/heavy frames (since these scans would be closer range).
Also I think active scanner base precision should be reduced and their precision be affected by modules. This makes it so they would be able to stack precision/intensifiers, so they 1. they can detect a fully damped scout, and 2. so that a single piece of equipment cant counter any amount of dampeners.
Also tightening up the dampening/precision numbers for each suit type so that dampeners and precision can be used by non-scout frames with some hope of success.
I'd prefer to have a scan gradient so that scanning gets a little fuzzy and can be rebalanced so that full precision fits can still detect full damp fits at close range, but since thats out of the question, I'd love to see the above implemented. |
Kaeru Nayiri
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
147
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:41:00 -
[84] - Quote
Rattati, I am generally in favor of all you have proposed except the following:
Quote:Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow Please consider not doing this one. In an FPS we can't "peek" around cover, there is no way to know without taking a step out from behind cover whether my target is facing away from me or not.
This is purely from the pov of a minmatar scout using Nova Knives.
If I could peek out behind cover to actually look at my target I wouldn't need directionals on tacnet, but this is just about impossible.
Other suggestion: I absolutely love the idea of plates and shields adding to signature, this works for shield extenders in Eve (but not armor). It could work for both in Dust given it often has little quirky differences. |
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
212
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:15:00 -
[85] - Quote
1. Make the cone scanners project static and maybe increase the width at the base before you make any other changes to them. This will increase the ease of use for scanners decrease its effect right now we are able to rotate 180 is you guys still need to change them after you can make the scans broader a good give and take.
2. Some people reference scouts as the primary reason for the change I would think it was to bring scanners back into the game. Time to kill is the issue with scouts if you being stocked your not going to scan a scout and even if you did if he has a shotgun it won't matter. I mean scanners do make is slightly more difficult for scouts, but if you want to balance them you have to reduce there Time To Kill so scouts can not drop someone before they can react. Increasing the time before the engagement is worthless what must be increased is the time between the first shot and death of target... impossible in a shared weapon pool including the sg and plc.
3. Directional icon should be removed it is so gross how scouts have the ability to prefire on targets under cover.
4. The suit changes are a good idea although I think it might be a good idea to go a further with assault/logi and commando suits precision.
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Cyrus Grevare
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
365
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:31:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Can't do Passive Scan sharing with Squad removal is impossible without extensive refactoring work of the whole scan system Same applies to precision falloff - this is even more complex
Good to know, though these two are the real culprits a better implementation and more balanced EWar can't be achieved, all possible solutions will be just an approximation of what we really want.
CCP Rattati wrote: Easy to do Remove all directional information about the enemy - Enemies can be pure circles without the arrow
Keep it for active scans, remove from passive scans. As is passive scans are too powerful, don't remove what can be a good tool if applied correctly.
CCP Rattati wrote: Plot twist: Extenders and Plates add signature profile
Sounds good, medium frames and up can easily get scanned as is, this will help curve light assaults.
If as some have mentioned having more penalties to armor plates is a concern both mechanically and lore-wise, you could apply it only to shield extenders exchanging it for the current penalty to recharge delay.
CCP Rattati wrote: Put all frames at same passive ranges at 15, otherwise amplifiers are just too good for scouts and useless for others
Yes, every module should be usable for all suits, though I like innate suit stat variety. An alternative could be the module offering a fixed bonus like armor plates instead of a percentage increase. Something like +10m@STD, +15m@ADV and +20m@PRO
CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce ultra range of Active Scanners by 50% - no reason for a fully skilled logi to see the whole battle field Reduce Scan duration across the board Hand in hand - Gallogi/Cloak and Stealth Scout changes - can be isolated Focused Scanner should be set at share with Squad only
Can't offer much input on this, but scanning range is better if it's beyond usual confrontation range (80+) active scanning @ CQC range sounds like a liability.
Active scans don't really seem too powerful, what is annoying though is the permascan message, removing that could help. If getting scanned is the issue dampening up sounds good. Heavies won't dampen, scouts can do easily, if tweaked, assaults can if needed, or opt to stay in squad, ultimately having a choice sounds good.
Team shared scans is what is likely sparking an issue, maybe splitting scanners to team or squad based can help, team scanners being more resource intensive or shorter duration then a more focused squad based alternative.
Every other point sounds awesome to me.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
2347
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:46:00 -
[87] - Quote
Seriously lets just remove all forms of scans in this game. Remove passive scans, remove active scanners too. Give the Gallente logi a new role.
Then we can think about scans in terms of a squad assist 'call in' that costs WP just like an orbital.
The whole scanning mechanism in this game is just too much. Everyone should be able to play stealthy if they want to. Scans and passive scans are way too easy and give way too much intelligence.
Remove all scan!
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"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
832
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Remove all scan! To me that would be the ultima ratio if nothing else works. I'd prefer trying to limit all scans either in duration, cooldown or range. Both passive and active scans.
The core of the game is a shooter. Not a scanning table. |
Kaeru Nayiri
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
149
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Posted - 2014.11.06 22:31:00 -
[89] - Quote
The less attractive you make e-war to scouts, the more scouts are going to brick tank.
The less attractive you make brick tanking to scouts, the more scouts are going to fit e-war.
It has to remain attractive for a scout to field his/her suit with ewar, and remain paper thin. The opposite should be the rarity for players who just want to go against the grain.
I think it would be best if medium and heavy frames had a chance to scan scouts.
IDEA
You created a secondary scanning system for vehicles, why not create more of them to reflect different radius of scanning power?
first ring: 5m 120% scanning precision
second ring:10m 100% scanning precision
third ring: 20m 80% scanning precision
I also want to repeat that I am against removing the directional indicator on the red dots on tacnet. The type of scout we want to have in the game (intel, stealth, low combat abilities, low tank) needs to know when to run from cover to cover. If peeking was possible, this would not be an issue. When he or she is running around with 250 EHP it isn't possible to survive even 1 person noticing him/her moving around. |
Haerr
Dead Man's Game RUST415
1831
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Posted - 2014.11.06 22:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
Would any CPM member care to share their thoughts on EWAR? |
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