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CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2896	Posted - 2014.05.29 02:36:00 - [1] - Quote Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8716	Posted - 2014.05.29 02:53:00 - [2] - Quote Q: What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? A: As a long-time Eve Online player, perhaps you can take a page from the sensor overlay that is present in Eve Online. Here is a link to the video showing what I'm talking about. I'm not asking for an exactly copy of this but something based off of this concept of a sensor overlay that can at least help new players get an idea on where to start as soon as they deploy to a planet of their choosing. This can also be used in conjunction with NPE so that new players won't be as lost as some of us were back in 2003 (some of us remember those days). Q: What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? A: That's up to the visitors to decide. If they want to greet with bullets, then I would like to say "hi" as well in kind. Of course, the security status of the system you're in should play a role in this. This could also be a chance to encourage team play if players want better returns in their investment (those salvage tools will cost ISK after all). Q: How do you think drones should behave? A: Honestly I would say borrow from the null-sec AI or sleeper AI since those provide a challenge in Eve. Of course, how prevalent they are should also depend on the sec status of the system. One interesting thing I like to see is a chance to go after drone hives in an attempt to salvage even better loot but that should likely require actual teamwork just like how Eve players handle Incursions using public fleets like The Ditanian Fleet. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5842	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:02:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman Drones should be challenging - they shouldn't be something to just blow over. If anything they should be just as, if not more powerful than another player. The AI will always seem somewhat artificial (one would hope, lol) and lacks the human element of adaptive strategy; so they need to be powerful in other ways to compensate, lest everyone on the team just runs a sniper rifle/forge gun and deals with them via riskless effort. IMO, I'd like to see a sort of "race against time" aspect where the drones are able to search for and salvage the loot, then potentially make off with it and preventing the players the opportunity to gather it if they take too much time. They should be a priority target and I think it'd make for some interesting moment-to-moment decision making on the players' part: Do I deal with this player who's making a nuisance of himself, or do I focus on my goal at the potential risk of dying to the other player? Is it worth temp-bluing with the other player against the drone(s) so we can settle our score later? Should we share the loot, or kill one another; winner takes all? Another consideration is how the teams, if any, will work? Is this a free-for-all thing where it's everyone trying to stake their claim or is it a traditional team-fight with a third party (the drones)? Will that be mechanically force by gameplay mechanics or is it going to provide opportunities to "temp-blue"? Finally, tiers of game-play. I wouldn't mind seeing the more valuable loot protected by even more powerful drones or sketchy situations. This would be a prime opportunity to play with different game modes (team fight + drones) (free-for-all + drones) and different Drone "teams" (lights with some mediums) (lots of medium with some heavies). All in all, the comment concept here is this: - Conscious decision making; do I kill the drone or the player first? - Non-consentual game mode; who else has a claim here? - Team-fight or Free-for-all; who can I trust? Will the game itself force us to work together? - Fear factor; should I be afraid of what I have to lose here? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2898	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:18:00 - [4] - Quote Sec levels is something we see as important as well. The lower the sec the higher the risk (drones, well geared players) and potential reward (sweet sweet loot). We see it as a free for all but you can squad if you want. Lower security would of course have friendly fire on so if your buddy got something really rather niceGÇªwell, I hope you're good friends. WeGÇÖre thinking that the drones will deplete the salvage in a Salvage field themselves so there would be an element of pressure there.

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 225	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:30:00 - [5] - Quote I like the idea of larger caches of valuable loot that requires some sort of team hacking minigame to open. And when you start to hack it some sort of beacon shoots off into the sky (a flare maybe), basically alerting other players (and drones) to your presence. And so it comes down to a race to get the cache open before you attract too much attention. It would be awesome. Yourself and a small band of mates rush to open the cache whilst under fire from an increasing number of drones, the cache opens revealing a single item of immense value, and you all realize that only one person can carry it out. At this point everyone reaches for their gun.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5843	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:44:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Sec levels is something we see as important as well. The lower the sec the higher the risk (drones, well geared players) and potential reward (sweet sweet loot). We see it as a free for all but you can squad if you want. Lower security would of course have friendly fire on so if your buddy got something really rather niceGÇªwell, I hope you're good friends. WeGÇÖre thinking that the drones will deplete the salvage in a Salvage field themselves so there would be an element of pressure there. Ah, I like the concept of salvage fields a lot actually. However, the overall mechanics seem somewhat flaky. If it's free-for-all, then what is the necessity of having friendly fire? Are squads exempt from friendly fire in high-sec? If that's the case, might as well just keep high-sec salvage matches as a team-based gameplay and leave the free-for-all brutality for other areas =P An insanely high level concept but how would this tie into Eve Online, if at all? Will be able to provide orbital support for our guys on the ground or potentially ruin their day via orbital strike to secure our claim? Need a bit more information before we can propose the nuanced stuff Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Nstomper Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 599	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:46:00 - [7] - Quote My only question is will we be able to have small personal ships that we can fly down to the surface of the planet from our warbarge or if its a squad then drop ships? Like for example from 0:40 to 1:17 in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WeX41WfOsY you notice that he takes off from a landing pad on a planet this actually fly's up into space.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2900	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:49:00 - [8] - Quote Yes, we could have a no team 'free for all' but still not allow the players to damage/fire on each other if we wanted. So no 'neutral fire' I guess :-)

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5843	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:51:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Yes, we could have a no team 'free for all' but still not allow the players to damage/fire on each other if we wanted. So no 'neutral fire' I guess :-) That seems very strange O_o I think it'd essentially mean that, without the ability to fire on one another, all players would be on the same team against the Drones, fighting for their own stakes. I guess it could work, would be hardcore PvE. Would there be a way for warring corporations/alliances to fire on one another anyway? (be sure to read the edit in my previous post for scanning system suggestion) Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2900	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:55:00 - [10] - Quote I'm not suggesting all areas would be like that. Not being sure who to trust would be part of the fun but I do think you need some safe places to learn the ropes.


Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 296	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:56:00 - [11] - Quote Was planning on doing a larger write up of this with pictures and such, but I'll do my best with a text summary. Note that this is just how I envision salvage operations. Salvage Regions So when you go to look for loot on planets, I picture something like a much better version of planet exploring from Mass Effect 1. You and your friends start at a staging point, possibly a landing craft. This would be much smaller than an MCC, but carries a limited number of clones and vehicles. It's also the primary point of respawn if you're all killed and allows you to refit. The maps would be large and feature multiple salvage areas of different sizes. The smallest can be done solo by anyone vaguely competent, with the largest requiring multiple squads to handle. In order to find these, you need to traverse the map looking for them or using long range variants of scanners that are designed to track the large signatures of drones. With your limited amount of clones and vehicles, you must salvage as much as you can before you run out. Salvage Sites So once you've found a site, you'll have to take care of the drones. Due to their nature, the drones have locked the salvage into different size containers. These can be your standard person sized crates or a full on vault with multiple chambers. Once the initial guard drones are dead, you can begin to collect your rewards. For the small sites, you simply hack open the crate(s) and drive home with your riches. But for the larger sites, you've only just begun. The hacking process is much harder for these and you'll need to fight off drone waves while you're doing it. Sometimes it might be best to just grab what you can and run before you get overwhelmed. Hacking The hacking minigame from EVE is a good place to start. If you're doing a small site, it's pretty much the same. Maybe you bring a friend with better hacking skills so you can clear them faster together. For the smallest sites, you can have as many tries as you want. For the slightly harder sites, you get a few tries and then have to break the crate open. This causes some damage to the loot, so you get a slightly worse income for failing. When you get to the larger sites however, that's when it gets real interesting. Instead of the hacking game being a small grid with a single hacker, you have progressively larger grids with multiple people hacking. The medium sites could have up to 3 hackers and use a life system so once someone's virus is dead, they're out of the hack and lose a life. If all the lives are lost, a self destruct sequence starts and you have to grab what you can and run. While you're hacking, drones are constantly attacking in waves, with bonus waves appearing depending on what is happening with the hack. It's also possible that you could unlock self defence turrets and other benefits during the hack to aid you. With the larger sites, the entire vault is a giant hacking maze that requires you to unlock each vault section individually. It might even be that groups hacking an entire vault would be extremely difficult to pull off. Drone Types The key to making something like this interesting over a long period of time is to have each experience be challenging and unique, so the drones you fight should be heavily varied to match this ideal. Below are a few ideas for drones. A standard drone that hovers and fires different heavy weapon types. Is basically the equivalent of a player. A heavy drone that counts as a vehicle. Is extremely tough and takes some form of AV to take down it's HAV level health pool. Uses weaponry similar to large turrets. A tiny airborn drone that fires sidearm level shots. Fast and and hard to hit, but goes down fast. A small drone that skitters around on 4 legs. Aims to jump on players and explode. Makes a distinct noise when approaching players to allow them to react and shoot before it gets too close. That's all I have for now. I feel like this style of randomized encounters that require different roles would make for fun, repeatable content. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5843	Posted - 2014.05.29 04:02:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I'm not suggesting all areas would be like that. Not being sure who to trust would be part of the fun but I do think you need some safe places to learn the ropes. Agree'd. All my +1's so far, seems like a very intuitive, risky, and rewarding system. Just don't mess up the Drones. Challenge = Fun ^_- Give them the OP Turret Installation accuracy if you have to Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 225	Posted - 2014.05.29 04:03:00 - [13] - Quote How do you think drones should behave? I think Drone behaviour should vary based on sec status. In high sec you have discrete groups of drones that don't really roam that far. In null sec you could have a drones with a variety of movement patterns. For example: a large aerial drone that slowly moves across the map searching for players. If it finds any it can deploy drones to the players location to attack them. You could even have another kind of large aerial drone that searches for salvage and deploys reclamation drones to pick it up. Clever players would learn to recognize these drones and follow them (possibly into a trap)
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 398	Posted - 2014.05.29 04:27:00 - [14] - Quote Some thoughts: I don't want PvE like Eve's where you can have a recipe for each mission. Unpredictable PvE would be good. Perhaps provide opportunities to gather intel about a site before doing it for some cost in time, money and perhaps missing out if some others just Leeroy'ed in. Fighting against a clock is a good idea. If it is close to impossible to clear a site before the Bots do then it allows skilled players to 'clear' a site better (ie. more profit) than less skilled players. Drones should be challenging. Obviously we need a range of different levels (with appropriate rewards) but I'd like to see the high end being powerful and deviously clever drones. Make extraction of loot essential. This adds extra opportunities for PvPvE and of makes sense. Say we arrive in a heavy dropship with our clones and communication equipment (consciousness transfer etc), loot has to be returned to the dropship. Perhaps we have access to a hauler drone (dumb and fragiles buts goes all the way back to the ship) or a robot crate (just follows you around). Perhaps drones have similar extraction requirements? A big mother drone that is the equivalent of the dropship and then worker/salvage drones and soldier drones? Maybe one day Eve and Dust players can launch the salvage drones themselves? That could be interesting.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5843	Posted - 2014.05.29 04:39:00 - [15] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Some thoughts: I don't want PvE like Eve's where you can have a recipe for each mission. Unpredictable PvE would be good. Perhaps provide opportunities to gather intel about a site before doing it for some cost in time, money and perhaps missing out if some others just Leeroy'ed in. Fighting against a clock is a good idea. If it is close to impossible to clear a site before the Bots do then it allows skilled players to 'clear' a site better (ie. more profit) than less skilled players. Drones should be challenging. Obviously we need a range of different levels (with appropriate rewards) but I'd like to see the high end being powerful and deviously clever drones. Make extraction of loot essential. This adds extra opportunities for PvPvE and of makes sense. Say we arrive in a heavy dropship with our clones and communication equipment (consciousness transfer etc), loot has to be returned to the dropship. Perhaps we have access to a hauler drone (dumb and fragiles buts goes all the way back to the ship) or a robot crate (just follows you around). Perhaps drones have similar extraction requirements? A big mother drone that is the equivalent of the dropship and then worker/salvage drones and soldier drones? Maybe one day Eve and Dust players can launch the salvage drones themselves? That could be interesting. Going off of your extraction proposal, I wouldn't mind calling and subsequently waiting for an RDV to arrive to extract the goods. Could even expand on that by having the players/drones guard the stuff until the RDV leaves with the stuff. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
DAMIOS82 WarRavens Final Resolution. 121	Posted - 2014.05.29 04:39:00 - [16] - Quote What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? For me beeing used to drones in EVE, along with scanner probes. I would like to see something in Legion, that i can deploy as a helper. So a personal drone or beeing able to launch scanner probes. The scanner we have now would work for close by, while the scanner probe works for larger distances or larger area. Some equipment like beeing able to place motion detectors, would also be some nice gear to play with. Sometype of salvage equipment, that you need to press and hold for a surtain number of time, before a container is displayed. That container is where the loot is in. This way of doing it gives players time to steall from the drones, but the other way around aswell. Your out of the battle for a minute or so trying to get the loot, giving enough oppertunities to others to wack you. Salvaging the killed drones them self for parts/loot is something i'd like to see aswell, you never know what they might have hidden away. What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? I believe a salvage field should be devided into zones, so the core of the field will be the extreme hotzone/redzone, meaning lots of drones( the reall bad bots) and player killing. Team work advised. then the out laying zones/orange zones, should also have player killing, but with reduced drones (medium bots). And then a few safe zones/blue zones. Where you don't have to worry about a thing pvp wise, maybe a drone or two to play with(troopers/scout bots). How do you think drones should behave? Drones imo should be like hives/complexes. You have your dumb AI Scouts, salvager's, troopers. (solo pve) Then the medium AI drones, like aerial, grenadiers, reppers, etc. (solo/co-op pve) And then the hvy AI elites that protect a boss AI (teamplay/co-op pve)

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2905	Posted - 2014.05.29 05:22:00 - [17] - Quote Scarcity of personal resources available to any player deploying is something that weGÇÖre interested in exploring i.e. limited gear, limited clones so that death counts. Garth brought up the idea of loot extraction. This is also a concept we like. You donGÇÖt just get loot, you need to GÇÿbank GÇÿ it in some way once itGÇÖs in your possession. This opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for emergent play :-)

Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 206	Posted - 2014.05.29 05:33:00 - [18] - Quote What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? Limited Access Salvaging: Having underground or aerial salvaging could be interesting. Salvage would have to be moved from an inside location (by LAV, MAV, Dropship, etc. or whatever) to the planet's surface/safe location before extraction by RDV (or something) would be possible. This could also be appropriate if Drone Hives could be entered in order to retrieve stored salvage. Tactical Salvaging: Some zones would be too dangerous for even a large force to easily enter with or without a large engagement ensuing. Players would have to influence surrounding salvage locations/drone hives/etc. in order to find a way to create an opportunity to assault this deadly zone. (something like a puzzle, but more tactics-like) Multistage/Cooperative Salvaging: Player(s) would have to complete task in other locations in order to access a certain salvage/ salvage area, such as taking control of a facility in order to access an outpost on lock-down. Or: players would have to control the facility while another group would have to loot the outpost. Losing the facility while players search the outpost could result in the players/salvage being trapped and in a threatened position (automated defenses reactivate, drones, etc.) Sabotaging Salvage: Ability to search and destroy instead of search and salvage. This should have some severe negative consequence on the future contracts a player could accept; however, players should have the choice to sacrifice the salvage if the situation calls for it. Destroying the salvage should vary in difficulty depending on the type: common salvage is easier to destroy than rare salvage. What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? Negotiating Salvage: Players could have quick access to ISK transfer on the battlefield so they can negotiate and trade on the fly (in the salvage zone). Player Stealing: Stealing Installations, Vehicles, etc. from other players should be permanent and able to be extracted like inherent salvage. If possible, MCCs can be stolen. Deployed items left on the battlefield are lost; if you leave the salvage without the CRU you dropped, you lose that CRU. How do you think drones should behave? Drones should adapt; if players in the area are all Shield-tanking, the Hive sends Drones with Plasma and Scrambler Weapons. If a ton of players start bring in OMS, AV or Vehicle Drones are sent in response (if detected; Drones can still be ambushed). Drones also should have limited resources to some extent (a max number of Drones from a Hive at any give time) and must determine where to devote their Drones as well as what type of Drones to deploy (as mentioned above). Competing Drone clusters should fight each other (immersion, although not sure this one fits). Player Drones (possibly?) should respond to player orders, squad orders, then auto-pilot (make the mode settable by the user). This is all I have for now! Lovin' daddy Rattati! CCP Ankou s+êTà+ bro!
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 264	Posted - 2014.05.29 05:35:00 - [19] - Quote First off +1. I like this discussion, and will have to think a little bit about it... One thought though: I think it is important that gathering of loot is not (always) the prime objective for all players inhabiting the same space. Since it is a sandbox, I would like people running missions (totally different discussion, i know) stumble across these loot fields by accident, making them choose if they still want to pursue the mission and reap (well defined) rewards, or risk loosing standing for some exotic loot (which could potentially be nothing). I also would LOVE if these people cohabit the same location with people that DO search for loot as their main objective. Imagine being on a loot search and suddenly observing a second squad far in the distance... Who are they? Are they also searching for the same thing? Do we risk going after them in the chance they do not? Do we position a scout to keep an eye on them while the main force continue the search? These are the questions I want flying through my mind It would be boring if you KNEW (per game mechanic) that all other players are after the same thing as you.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2910	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:12:00 - [20] - Quote Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it...


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 836	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:25:00 - [21] - Quote It would be nice to be able to communicate with other players we meet. Hand signals kinda don't cut it. Are there plans in place for proximity voice chat, even if it's optional? (Note that mandatory proximity chat will just force serious groups onto their own teamspeak channels, which may not be desirable) Dust/Eve transfers

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2913	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:29:00 - [22] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: It would be nice to be able to communicate with other players we meet. Hand signals kinda don't cut it. Are there plans in place for proximity voice chat, even if it's optional? (Note that mandatory proximity chat will just force serious groups onto their own teamspeak channels, which may not be desirable) We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-) At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 264	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:29:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it... You say "salvage session", which leads me to believe there will be a gaming instance opening up purely for looting which players can find by scanning (and deploy to). Are there any considerations to have the "shared" instances I talked about in my earlier post? Squad #1 scans for loot and finds a district / planet and deploys to get it. Squad #2 accepts a mission from a agent with set objectives and deploys. And they happen to deploy in the same district. They could go about their separate business, but they can also interact if they choose to?

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2913	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:37:00 - [24] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it... You say "salvage session", which leads me to believe there will be a gaming instance opening up purely for looting which players can find by scanning (and deploy to). Are there any considerations to have the "shared" instances I talked about in my earlier post? Squad #1 scans for loot and finds a district / planet and deploys to get it. Squad #2 accepts a mission from a agent with set objectives and deploys. And they happen to deploy in the same district. They could go about their separate business, but they can also interact if they choose to? If I understand you correctly it would be possible. If, for example, there was an eradication mission where you had to destroy 100 drones you could be doing that alongside other players who are there to Salvage. They probably wouldn't like you much since you'll be getting the drones all riled up :-)

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 836	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:39:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-) At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function Will there be holographic chat bubbles over our heads? Because I could get into that. Dust/Eve transfers

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2914	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:40:00 - [26] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-) At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function Will there be holographic chat bubbles over our heads? Because I could get into that. No they will be comic book style bubbles since the new direction is going to be super deformed and cell shaded

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 264	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:46:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it... You say "salvage session", which leads me to believe there will be a gaming instance opening up purely for looting which players can find by scanning (and deploy to). Are there any considerations to have the "shared" instances I talked about in my earlier post? Squad #1 scans for loot and finds a district / planet and deploys to get it. Squad #2 accepts a mission from a agent with set objectives and deploys. And they happen to deploy in the same district. They could go about their separate business, but they can also interact if they choose to? If I understand you correctly it would be possible. If, for example, there was an eradication mission where you had to destroy 100 drones you could be doing that alongside other players who are there to Salvage. They probably wouldn't like you much since you'll be getting the drones all riled up :-) Here, have all my likes! This is exactly what I am talking about. Your example highlights when the two naturally cross paths. I can also imagine that the mission and loot are on opposite sides of the districts, so they might actually miss each other. But IF they would spot each other (or hear the fight), there could be very interesting interaction indeed
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 836	Posted - 2014.05.29 06:53:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: No they will be comic book style bubbles since the new direction is going to be super deformed and cell shaded Through An Active Scanner Darkly Dust/Eve transfers
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1060	Posted - 2014.05.29 07:32:00 - [29] - Quote Wolfman, great topic. One question on this....Can you describe the general concept of where the salvage comes from? The reason i ask is that it may color a little bit of the discussion and help us provide some deeper feedback. Example...if the Salvage is styled more of a "post battle" type event i think having a higher probability for PVP options while fighting the drones could adjust some variables such as what loot you are actually getting and perhaps even creating the scenario for third party PVP mechanisms be introduced. A different scenario and admittedly one of my personal favorites is salvaging a sleeper site. This would be the classic high risk / high reward with amped up PVE drones and high end loot that might even be attractive to EVE side folks to buy. This perhaps would be a really nice variant that supports either team deploy or single squads and have a much lower probability of competing player teams being injected. Might be cool to have these fall under special contracts and you can only take one of these contracts every 24 to 48 hrs or so. One thing i do believe is really key is highly incentivizing the use of a variety of modules to maximize the loot pull from salvage missions. For instance: Require code breakers of a specific strength to secure ALL the loot. Have Relic Analyzers and Salvage tools / Modules be critical and relevant. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 249	Posted - 2014.05.29 07:33:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman Are there neutral clone units that both sides can spawn from or does your ship have a clone unit with X amount of clones to use in the salvage mission or do you just have one and if killed you awake in merc quarters . Lets start from the Beginning CCP Wolfman.

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 228	Posted - 2014.05.29 07:39:00 - [31] - Quote Perhaps one of the materials you could find planetside can be used to provide you with an emergency clone or two. Or perhaps when killing other players you can harvest their biological materials for additional clones.
Grimmiers 569	Posted - 2014.05.29 07:41:00 - [32] - Quote Is there or will there be a backstory behind drones? Who's deploying them and who is using their loot? As for drone behavior, it would be fun if drones were better at finding loot than us. Stalking drones and waiting for them to find loot should be a viable strategy and would make stealth something worth using. Scanning drones should make them react and search around as if they got the "You have been scanned message". If drones are going to be picking up loot they should also drop some which should be actually items they've picked up during the match.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 249	Posted - 2014.05.29 07:44:00 - [33] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman Are there neutral clone units that both sides can spawn from or does your ship have a clone unit with X amount of clones to use in the salvage mission or do you just have one and if killed you awake in merc quarters . Lets start from the Beginning CCP Wolfman. Can we call in vehicles does a MCC follow us throughout new eden with rdv support? These questions affect your three questions. 1.Drones attached together make a anti vehicle drone once destroyed they are anti foot soldier all fighting alone. 2.Sould be a skill where you try to talk to them (drones)so you have a shot at working without fighting. 3.Can the drones do the work for you if they are gathering find their stash and take it (bigger Fight) 4.When you meet players on salvage run do you want to blue them? Signal sent to the other players squad leader if yes friendly fire on. if purple or red you can kill them .Squad leader decides.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 249	Posted - 2014.05.29 08:13:00 - [34] - Quote When the drones kill clones they drag body to a reclaimer drone unit where the dead clones processed into a human drone fighting players.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 249	Posted - 2014.05.29 08:16:00 - [35] - Quote Players deploy salvage scanner that draws attention like fighting in dom.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 837	Posted - 2014.05.29 08:46:00 - [36] - Quote Ghural wrote: Perhaps one of the materials you could find planetside can be used to provide you with an emergency clone or two. Or perhaps when killing other players you can harvest their biological materials for additional clones. capturable (and mobile) CRUs should provide a small stockpile of clones... Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 837	Posted - 2014.05.29 08:47:00 - [37] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Players deploy salvage scanner that draws attention like fighting in dom. thump thump thump Dust/Eve transfers
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3132	Posted - 2014.05.29 09:29:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it... You say "salvage session", which leads me to believe there will be a gaming instance opening up purely for looting which players can find by scanning (and deploy to). Are there any considerations to have the "shared" instances I talked about in my earlier post? Squad #1 scans for loot and finds a district / planet and deploys to get it. Squad #2 accepts a mission from a agent with set objectives and deploys. And they happen to deploy in the same district. They could go about their separate business, but they can also interact if they choose to? If I understand you correctly it would be possible. If, for example, there was an eradication mission where you had to destroy 100 drones you could be doing that alongside other players who are there to Salvage. They probably wouldn't like you much since you'll be getting the drones all riled up :-) I really really like that idea. The idea that diffrent groups have diffrent objectives some of which might not agree. From exemple raiders post a contract for tank parts, the navy post a contract to blow up said parts its race to see who can do what and the poor guys their just to find anything get caught in the middle "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5849	Posted - 2014.05.29 09:38:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-) At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function Will there be holographic chat bubbles over our heads? Because I could get into that. No they will be comic book style bubbles since the new direction is going to be super deformed and cell shaded Careful, Wolfman. Not everyone has trained Sarcasm to Level 5 Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
The Paige Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2014.05.29 10:39:00 - [40] - Quote Just like with orbital bombardments, could Eve players assign planetary drones to one of these sessions/matches to allow you to **** off the greedy sky dwellers? Keep them on grid the whole time, sorta like planet mining, so others can kill them while they hope for some shiny things that they usually have to trade for. Pretty big ask I know. But it would help to immerse the two games a little more.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 267	Posted - 2014.05.29 10:43:00 - [41] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-) At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function Will there be holographic chat bubbles over our heads? Because I could get into that. No they will be comic book style bubbles since the new direction is going to be super deformed and cell shaded Careful, Wolfman. Not everyone has trained Sarcasm to Level 5 I thought the same thing Wolfman need to train Emotes / Smiley Proficiency to level 2 at least. (He just bought the skill book ) But, we forgive you
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3133	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:04:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Wolfman, I'm not sure if you've seen this topic but I will bring it to your attention because I feel it would add a tremendous amount of potential to player created content in Legion. Jadek Menaheim wrote: In close relation to a concept presented here on AUR purchasable treasure chests, I am requesting that CCP consider the inclusion of a mechanic that allows players to convert message files into item assets (data diskettes). For example, this may be used by a lore inclined player to create a series of fan-fictions and disperse them in loot caches around PVE zones in New Eden with clues to find the location of each story, and accompanying gear. Additional points: -Creation of a diskettes from a message creates a non-removable time-stamp and name of the player who created the public file. This is done both enhance the notoriety of the player creating the message and establish the existence of original edition messages. -CCP may track the transfer of diskettes between player (exactly as current in-game message systems work). -Files only support text and retain functionality word processor tools as in Eve: Online client. -Diskettes cost a negligible amount of ISK to create (currently NPC vendor) -Message diskettes may be destroyed. I'm am seeking feedback on this concept and welcome any and all critiques. Original Topic Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 267	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:06:00 - [43] - Quote Ok, back to your questions: The ability to search for and find loot By "searching" I assume you refer to the star map, and by "finding" when you deployed on the planet? Searching: When it comes to the star map, I want it to make sense (Lore vise) in the New Eden universe. I was never really happy with the magically teleporting of clones and materials in Dust 514, and probably would feel the same if I can just sit in my quarters and "scan" every planet surface in the entire universe, or if there is a imaginary warbarge in orbit of every planet to jump to. Every district have a satellite right in orbit right? This satellite can scan the district for signals, not loot. This can be distress signals from crashed ships, battle aftermath signs, rouge drones attacking a colony (but you were too late for the rescue)... The scan result need to provide anything that can explain WHY there are loot, but never the loot directly. It also explain why you can't pinpoint exactly where on the district the loot is located, since this was not the intended purpose of the communication relay satellite. Now, to get there... First off, a imaginary warbarge should be a big no no (maaaybee in Highsec, but preferably not even there). You do not want the mercs to have their entire inventory at their disposal, they should have limited clones, vehicles etc. In high and low sec NPCs can provide the launching point, with smaller ships that can't hold the entire universe. Make it so we actually have to contract (local) NPCs to have a staging point. I.e: 1) In quarters - scanning for "something" and picks up a indication of a crashed Guristas ship on Otto V - District 4 2) in the scan results, I get the option of contracting a system local NPC corporation to provide a staging point. The more ISK I pay, the larger ship they can provide, and the more stuff I can bring (larger ones can bring vehicles etc) 3) when I select an option, I get a count down timer to spawn where I can prepare and select what I want to bring (this is explained with the NPC corp needs to travel there, and "they" provide the equipment - which is deducted from your inventory after the job is done). 4) On the planet, I should use scanners and be given small hints at where to go. I am looking for a crashed ship right? Perhaps there is a smoke plume at the horizon. 5) I get there to find automatic scavenge drones have beaten be to it, and the fight starts. 6) I collect the loot, which needs to be hauled back to the drop down point for RDV pickup to the NPC ship. 7) job done. I clone jump back to quarters and the hired NPC corp will deliver the loot and claim the lost gear from my inventory, which can take 10-20 minutes. In the above scenario, we still have "direct" spawn to and back (which we need in legion), but it fits in the New Eden universe from a lore standpoint. In Null sec, where the REALLY valuable loot is located, we should contract real EVE players using the same mechanic.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 989	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:20:00 - [44] - Quote My random idea after reading OP: - A rather large map, 10 kilometers by 10 kilometers or larger - A large number of players, 64 or more - Lots of different "salvage zones", where the loot/salvage/goodies are gathered, thinking like a hundred or so - A good number of "depots", where the loot/salvage/goodies are "sent" back to your ship for you to take home, I am thinking about a dozen, or 1 per square kilometer The main idea being that: ~ Players descend on a map and escort around a friendly drone (which has health and can be destroyed) ~ Players go to "salvage zones" to collect loot/salvage/goodies that get put into the friendly drone ~ Players then need to escort this friendly drone to a depot so that the loot they collected can be sent back to a ship for safe keeping ~ Players can go to multiple salvage sites before going to a depot but they run the risk of running into other players who will "gank" them and their drone and steal everything they have collected and deposit it themselves. Best Idea For Legion
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3132	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:22:00 - [45] - Quote I really like idea behind picking reasions for loot an important immersion factor. With gear why not go a step furthrr and have us actually have to by it at locations and have it delivered, so contact the NPCs and go i neex this gear ready, or you find out in that system you have left over stuff from another mission so u pay interbus to shuttle oit over, This encourages supply lines and could even add a whole new element for space truckers. (admit idea needs refining) Edit: no to escort missions unless its a player being escorted, its a frustration and rage inducing nightmare waiting to happy "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2379	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:28:00 - [46] - Quote I think I'm interested in a few more nuanced directions that these questions imply such as: What is the relationship between loot and drones? I think generally, the game should link the amount of drones on a planet with the possibility to find more/rarer resources. The drones would be going through the process of locating/collecting/processing lots of loot. Your job would be to intercept the drones, prevent the acquisition, and also, maybe repatriate collected drone salvage. Where does the 'threat' from the drones come from? It really can come from extreme intelligence, superior statistics, or numbers advantages. Programming intelligence could be one of the more difficult things, so most systems will/should probably most go into a process that generates a competitive environment that enables and expands on the last two ideas. I think drones should be kind of 'ant-like'. They would have nests/hives that they spawn from with a few different varieties and threat levels of the different kind of drones. Hives/nests would level up over time, spawning more/deadlier drones. The more difficult the planet the higher tier possible hives. At most times, drones would be randomly patrolling terrain based on their settings and 'hive role'. They'd have a variety of economic and combat 'priorities' along with some different weapons profiles. If someone is attacking their nest, they prioritize killing them, healing their friends, scanning for loot, scanning for stealth/cloaked players, etc. Each drone class would also have their own variety within the class (often heavy/medium/light). You could have a 'queen drone' that is only interested in activity around her nest. Therefore she doesn't wonder more than 100m from the nest, and even then, only to chase invaders. She can only detect things that are 36db+. She has a fairly limited ranged attack, is very quick and extremely highly tanked with some significant regeneraion potential. She will attack anyone attacking/salvaging the main hive if she can see them. If she is attacked, she will trigger an 'alert' for any other drone that is within 200m to assist her. Also, if the queen is alive, she will trigger the hive to slowly replace any drones lost drones based on the hive tier. These drones will be created at the expense of stored/collected salvage. Queens would be the heart of a swarm. If you kill the queen, you've probably aggravated most of the swarm, but they won't last much longer. Integrator drones would be sort of like 'drone commanders/officers'. They would multiply the threat/danger of nearby drones. The more integrator drones around, the higher tier hive you have. Integrators would be able to broadcast the 'alert' status of any drone that it can see (150m) to any others within that same range. The integrator's broadcast would then re-task any nearby drones to patrol with it to locate any other nearby enemies. The higher tier a hive, the more drones each integrator would re-task for patrol. Integrators would be the brains of a swarm. Alternatively you could have a class of 'dismantler' drones who's economic role is to scout for and collect salvage. They would be very fast, have a long scanning vision that can see 13-20 dB (depending on the hive's level). They would 'share sight' with other drones, but could only 'alert' other dismantlers or integrators. They would mainly be the eyes and ears of the drone swarm. Constructor drones would be like roaming healers. When not near the hive, they would heal anything that has the lowest health with significant speed. They would have a very limited detection ability and alert range. So, if they were individually attacked they'd first retreat to the nearest integrator to get into its alert range. Striker Drones would be the basic 'killers' moving back and forth between the forward roaming dismantlers and the queen near the hive. They would be the most deadly. Cloak drones would be fairly rare, but they would be hard to detect and would not constantly attack. They'd switch targets occaisionally and attack for a short period of time, cloak, move, then restart attacking. So the idea would be that individually, these drones wouldn't be THAT much of a threat, but they could quickly become a problem if you don't know their behavior. Also, there could be a kind of variation of 'drone races' some that are more about repairs, others more for shields, others big hybrid tanks but slow, etc. Players would then have to assess the strength of the nearby swarm. Failure to identify the proper threat could be quickly fatal. Properly prioritizing targets, or quickly getting salvage and then leaving would be the key to efficient resource collection.
Night 5talker 514 Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 275	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:31:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? I think that having certain modules that are heavy in CPU and PG for both dropsuits and vehicles would lead to interesting game play. Imagine having a specialist or 2 within a team that can't really fight back effectively. The team would have to protect them/the vehicle... more interaction and ability to back stab by simply killing the specialist, or the specialist steals all the loot etc. What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? The interactions mentioned above could be interesting. However, if you had "puzzles" built in across the planet where teams either on the same side or different must both activate something at the same time, like 2, 4 or 6 beacons on different parts of the planet in order to open the final area where a fight can ensue for the loot or it can get shared. E.G All power cores across the planet get activated at once, then a beacon for a facility built into a mountain or inside a volcano or on a deserted space station activates allowing the teams to locate it and go for the loot. This could be timed also with self destruct etc. and would lead to interesting interactions. How do you think drones should behave? I think drones should have varying ability based on space security and loot. Along with this they should have every increasing AI abilities. The lore could be that the drones delegate their best resources to finding the best loot to advance them etc. I think in 0.0 they should require good team work, specialiseation and communication to defeat. where as, in 0.5+ they should be able to be taken down by a single squad working together or even really good solo player say for 0.7+ Just my thoughts, hope you find it interesting :) Gaming Freek DUST 514 YouTube Channel
BUGSBUNNY LOONEY ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 99	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:43:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman This is what you promised us in dust514 so bring it to dust514 CEO of ACME SPECIAL FORCES Join our pub Channel ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB
Disturbingly Bored Forum Warfare 2277	Posted - 2014.05.29 13:12:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: No they will be comic book style bubbles since the new direction is going to be super deformed and cell shaded Best Dev troll in a long while. I did a coffee spit-take while laughing. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2379	Posted - 2014.05.29 15:07:00 - [50] - Quote So to expand on my thread. There would be a delicate balance between the gameplay that involves 'farming' drones. The longer you are around without destroying a hive, the more likely the hive would upgrade into something more dangerous than you could handle. Depending on the system security level. The hive development itself could have a kind of sideways and vertical progression. All hives would start as basic hives on a planet when the infestation starts. Left unattended they would 'evolve' from basic hives to a variety of different kinds of drone 'strains'. Each strain's hive and tier level would be visually identifiable, but you wouldn't know the upgrade level of the 'swarm' that you face until you've found the swarm's hive. Each hive would have between 0 and 12 drones active at a time. The basic hive would just have a queen, a commander drone, and a bunch of scout drones roaming around. The sideways progression would shift the hive into a certain kind of 'style' of enemy based around healing, stealth, heavy drones, damage, and intelligence. The different drone types could follow Eve with the "avlior, alvatis, alvii, names etc." Each drone would have a spawn rate, and once a hive would have all 12 of its drones spawned then it would go into a progression mode where it ticks down a timer to let it change into the next tiered version. Once the hive evolves, it would have more HP, and would occaisionally recall drones that don't match its 'hive-style table'. It would then reprocess all of its drones one at a time until it matched, and then proceed to upgrade to the next tier. There would be 3-5 tier upgrades depending on the security level of the system. More difficult areas would also have more hives. A hive, unatended, would take about 1 hour to fully upgrade to tier V. A Hive's upgrade progression can be stopped by destroying its drones forcing it to replace them before proceeding. Directly attacking a Tier I hive while it has all 12 drones would be somewhat difficult for even a 6 man squad. A tier V hive with all of its drones aggroed would be nearly impossible. The trick would be knowing the type of hive you are up against and the progression of drones to attack to not aggro too many at once. Each progression hive level and 'race/style' would have its own nuances. For most tier levels, just attacking the hive directly would result in a quick death.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3134	Posted - 2014.05.29 15:26:00 - [51] - Quote Eeehb that sounds more like a bug hunt tham salavaging a battlefield. I think it has its place but its not part of ccps current vision. To be honest im all for bug hunts but it could get samy very quick and your not going to get the emergent gameplay we are all after. Ie(people get bored quickly) "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 990	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:26:00 - [52] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Eeehb that sounds more like a bug hunt tham salavaging a battlefield. I think it has its place but its not part of ccps current vision. To be honest im all for bug hunts but it could get samy very quick and your not going to get the emergent gameplay we are all after. Ie(people get bored quickly) Isn't the point of this thread that the vision is not set in stone and anything is on the table and up for discussion? Best Idea For Legion
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8719	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:39:00 - [53] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Eeehb that sounds more like a bug hunt tham salavaging a battlefield. I think it has its place but its not part of ccps current vision. To be honest im all for bug hunts but it could get samy very quick and your not going to get the emergent gameplay we are all after. Ie(people get bored quickly) Not part of CCP current vision? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCCTrEhkUCY Just look at the first 50 seconds of the video alone. And yes, that is a Caldari Assault holding a forge gun. Just remember that the drones CCP Wolfman is describing are salvagers as well. If I under stand him correctly, drones are just icing on the cake because they are also there to look for the same loot that you and someone else are looking for. It's likely we'll end up looking for a set of wreckage left behind by the last unknown battle that occurred within districts and you're just there for clean up thereafter. I kind of envision it going like this: First someone starts a normal lobby match either in a high-sec district or in a factional warfare low-sec district. Once the match has concluded and both teams are done getting their share of the salvage, a beacon is sent out by the district calling for salvage drones to pick up whatever stuff remains on the battlefield. While the salvage drones are on the way, you just happen to notice the beacon on your sensor overlay while you were visiting the planet. You head over to see how much loot you can salvage before the drones get there or probably have to blast your way through the drones to get it. Keep in mind that you're not going to be the only one who picked up the beacon. If someone else comes, the race is finally on. I would like it to be more like ninja salvaging in front of the Jita station in Eve Online. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8719	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:42:00 - [54] - Quote BUGSBUNNY LOONEY wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman This is what you promised us in dust514 so bring it to dust514 It's not likely to come at this point for Dust. Back then CCP said they weren't entirely sure if and when drones would be implemented on Dust which is why they never gave a timeline on it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8719	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:48:00 - [55] - Quote @CCP Wolfman Is it possible to tie in free-for-all salvage to previous battles as I described in post #53? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Ku Shala The Generals General Tso's Alliance 934	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:54:00 - [56] - Quote so I have always seen the salvage part of dust well more like mining to get resources for manufacturing equipment, differnt planets = different resources with the most common resource required for manufacturing being on many planets. planets in high sec space would have drones that would help police the miners and protect them from "pirates", where low sec space would have pirate drones that attack miners.low and high spec space would have both types of drones. mining should be a grind on its own with an award per second but requiring large numbers for manufacturing.Example with a basic light mining tool equiped merc one can ore basic marerials at 1 part per second and it requires 100 steel ores 525 carbon ores and a crystal to manufacture 1 complex armour plate mining equipment should be based on class and be a special equipment slot that all suit types can fit a peice of mining equipment, that way diferent classes would be suitible for differnt types of mining. heavies for items you need in mass, mediums for an all round mining and light for hard to reach rare mining.the meta would determin the rate of mining and mined items would fit into diferent classes like heavy medium and light.. heavy suits could mine heavy material easily medium materials ok and light materials poorly. mediums suits could mine medium materials well and light and heavy materials ok, light frames could mine light very well and medium material ok and heavy material poorly. now bear with me I know this is long but ideas a very hard to explain in words (fml) the mining would consist of three kinds of group for the most part "police" ( be it hired contractors or in high sec drones), miners ( that could act as police if attacked should they choose if no protection is available) and "pirates that could steal the materials you have mine at your current station/district (or hired contractors that turn on the employer, the drone pirates should appear in all security level districts more often the lower the security) different districts should host different numbers of mercs depending on its security rating, high sec = lower number mercs per district more common materials and smaller amounts of maximum materials ored per day per merc.low sec = more mercs per distric rarer materials and higher/ limitless mining. Pirating should cause a bounty that can be paid to a security station(an actual place or just a menu option) or by sustaing loss or death will pirating. you should have to equip a class mod ( police, miner, pirate) this with help determin which mercs your fire will damage and how you show up on the radar. police and pirates would be able to switch class during a battle. miners could attack pirates, police could attack pires.pirates could attack police and miners. in nullsec friendly fire would be active. high sec would stop all class changes without immediate bounty and drone police action. when players are killed a certain % of the materials use in the dropsuits total production should be salvagable at random. so example it takes 4000 carbon 2340 hard steel 423 light steel 4 crystals 300 copper 215 silica in salvage you may only fin 100 carbon 50 hard steel and 1 copper. *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä* Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R Caldari Loyalist
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 476	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:59:00 - [57] - Quote I want total freedom in behavior. Let me set up traps at loot caches. Allow me to plant REs and get out my sniper rifle. I also have this vision of a team of buddies squadding up for exactly this reason. Everyone is chatting on their mics, but also being wary - The Logis scan, the Scouts investigate any weird scan results and the Assaults keep their guns ready. And then a lone player can do ambushes with proper skill. Hide a tank behind a rock, go out and use your sniper rifle. Take out a few of them, to lure them to your position. Then drive them over. The most important thing would be that people don't just randomly spawn in. You need to actually see new spawns. I'd be in favor of players burning in, by falling onto the planet with their inertial dampeners. This would also add an effect of squads having spotters to see newcomers and maybe guys who try to shoot any droppers down in mid-air. However, the defensive advantage might be too huge.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2667	Posted - 2014.05.29 17:29:00 - [58] - Quote What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? Legion: - Directional Scanners detect salvage sites and drones - Loot signature profile inversely proportional to value - Variable salvage times - Neutral & Hostile Drones with signature profile proportional to level of danger - Players may deploy semi-autonomous salvage drones from (specialized) vehicles - Loot scanning vehicles modules for HAV, Derpships, etc EVE: - Legion-side salvaging creates a beacon visible by pilots. Range of beacon is determined by sec-status of the system - Pilots scan temperate planets or systems for beacons - Corp pilots sitting on a beacon grant a bonus to Legion-side scanning - Pilots may scan planet surface for drones types present - Pilots sitting on the beacon may deploy ground support: [friendly/ neutral/ hostile] planetary salvage drones, vehicles, CRU's, etc. - EVE pilots may compete with Legion players for salvage What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? Legion: - Keep it open world - Planetary salvage beacon allows EVE pilots to hunt or assist other players - Salvage should require logistic support; make it equally important to protect your hoard of loot as well as search for moar loot and extract said loot - Player corporations should have PVE standings allowing "shoot on sight" mechanics, etc. - High-sec aggression punishable by Concord Orbital Strike - High-sec aggression allows any EVE pilot to deploy hostile drones to the planet (intent to kill aggressors and take their loot) - High-sec aggression effects corporation PVE standings - High-Sec aggression turns neutral drones hostile - Low-Sec aggression turns neutral drones hostile - Low-sec aggression allows any EVE pilot to deploy hostile drones to the planet (intent to kill aggressors and take their loot) - Easy, battle-friendly system for quickly moving loot between loot extraction vehicles and/or players EVE: - Pilots may deploy their own [friendly/ neutral/ hostile] autonomous planetary salvage drones - Pilots may assist in Legion equipment, clone and loot extraction - Pilots of same corporation connected to beacon grant Legion side scanning bonuses - Pilots connected to district may drop x number of orbital strikes every x minutes - Pilots needs to be able to aim their own Orbital Strikes in addition to taking coordinates from Legion How do you think drones should behave? Legion: - Diversity is key to avoiding boredom in PVE - Drones should be varied in all possible ways (size, sig, eHP, damage, speed, race, and particularly role) - Drones compete to salvage loot alongside players EVE: - pilot deployed drones function autonomously on the district
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3135	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:01:00 - [59] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Eeehb that sounds more like a bug hunt tham salavaging a battlefield. I think it has its place but its not part of ccps current vision. To be honest im all for bug hunts but it could get samy very quick and your not going to get the emergent gameplay we are all after. Ie(people get bored quickly) Isn't the point of this thread that the vision is not set in stone and anything is on the table and up for discussion? of coruse i was just stating that direction is one i dont think ccp wants to go in, while anything is up for discussion, turning around and going i want to blap at a rock to get ore is not something ccp is going to consider my understanding from wolfman is we are going down to salvage sites to find loot and drones are their stealing that loot. big nests and things like that are not something that would be happen in the universe as in reality they would just OB the nest and tidy up afterwords. but to be clear, attacking rouge drone sites in-itself is not a bad idea, but needs to be kept to a different thread and attacking a nest is not salvaging. does that make it any clearer :\ im awful with my words via txt. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2476	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:12:00 - [60] - Quote I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8720	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:20:00 - [61] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Well, until Eve-side manufacturing finally gets linked up with Legion, what alternative is there besides the primary NPC market? Besides the primary NPC market wouldn't be a good source for the secondary market anyways since you won't be able to sell for any higher than what the NPC price is going for. Therefore market trading between the primary and secondary is not profitable unless you isolate the NPC market far away in isolated regions from that of the secondary markets in other (more populated) regions. Salvage to me is a good first step at least. Although I wonder if it's possible to implement mining in Legion. At least for materials that are exclusive to planets. That way mining in Legion won't compete with mining in Eve. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2598	Posted - 2014.05.29 19:31:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman First of all some lore would be good. Why is that salvage there to begin with? It would be nice to have hints to the why in the level design. Maybe we're looting an old weapon production facility? Maybe a transport ship was shot down in orbit and crashed on the planet and now we're looting its cargo. Or was there a battle fought on this planet before we came there? I would love to see stuff like this in the level design. Not just some "Here is your gathering point, get there before the drones do!" Player interaction: I would find it interesting if Eve Online players could send these drones down to gather and sell the loot themselves. That would make for some kind of interesting assymetrical PvP. The Eve players of course don't have to care about their drones. They could start them and leave them alone. But maybe give them the possibility to defend their drones with Orbitals themselves? Or send down some guard drones in addition to the loot drones. I think that would be a realy interesting concept. Maybe you could add some kind of RTS minigame for Eve players where they command the drones against Dust players. Just think about the possibilities. Regarding Legion only interaction I would like to see the real sandbox part here. Maybe we meet other players while looting. but does that mean we have to shoot each other? No. We could squad up here and there and gather loot together before shooting each other in the back when we get to our dropship which will end the mission. Regarding the drones I would definitely like to see different kinds. Unarmed salvage drones solely focused on salvaging. They don't have any weapon. If they salvage before we can we can get the loot by killing them. But besides that they should be harmless, maybe even trying to flee from the player. Contrary to that there should be guard drones, guarding the salvage drones. These drones have the sole objective of guarding the salvage drones. And to add to that hunter or scout drones. These drones look for the player and try to hunt him down. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Joey-Number1 Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven 104	Posted - 2014.05.29 20:02:00 - [63] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Well, it has to be something at first, and scavenging planets for all kinds of materials or equipment is pretty big concept, there are probably endless abandoned resources on planets, whether its from battles, waste, lost things or anything really... The second way of getting things on the market is it being manufactured, and for that the only best solution is through EVE obviously, it would just require to develop different sources of different materials, components and so on as I imagine they would be very different from components that are used in starships, outposts, modules and everything else, the scale of things is also really different. And this requires time to figure out all this and to develop, so scavenging or salvaging is pretty solid thing. Minmatar Logistics since the beginning. Mass Driver my first and the only fully specialized weapon. Explorer.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3536	Posted - 2014.05.29 21:13:00 - [64] - Quote Loot that a player or drone picks up should be recoverable off their body if you kill them. Or at least much of it should be. Also, when you kill another player or drone, some of their modules should survive and be salvageable. If a larger fire fight breaks out for whatever reason, it will evolve into a fight to control the battlefield. Each side would be hoping to hold the others off long enough to loot the bodies and get away. You could end up with 3 or 4 different groups fighting over the corpses. One of those groups may be the Drones who want the loot as much as we do. Two player groups may make a battlefield alliance to drive the others off and split the loot. Give suits a limited carrying capacity. If Scouts can find loot easier using passive scans, then Heavies (who can't even use active scanners) should be able to carry more. Also, be able to transfer items to a vehicle, when you canGÇÖt carry more. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 846	Posted - 2014.05.29 22:27:00 - [65] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Loot that a player or drone picks up should be recoverable off their body if you kill them. Or at least much of it should be. Also, when you kill another player or drone, some of their modules should survive and be salvageable. This goes double for vehicles. IMO, a wrecked tank should be ripe for salvage, just on its own. It kinda reminds me of Supreme Commander, where you'd have a battle, then send in the construction bots to reclaim all the metal in the wrecked units to recycle into new bots. Dust/Eve transfers
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2481	Posted - 2014.05.30 00:06:00 - [66] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Well, until Eve-side manufacturing finally gets linked up with Legion, what alternative is there besides the primary NPC market? Besides the primary NPC market wouldn't be a good source for the secondary market anyways since you won't be able to sell for any higher than what the NPC price is going for. Therefore market trading between the primary and secondary is not profitable unless you isolate the NPC market far away in isolated regions from that of the secondary markets in other (more populated) regions. Salvage to me is a good first step at least. Although I wonder if it's possible to implement mining in Legion. At least for materials that are exclusive to planets. That way mining in Legion won't compete with mining in Eve. Well, saying that "until" crap doesn't help anything. Rather, it should be there day one.............. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 402	Posted - 2014.05.30 00:27:00 - [67] - Quote Are these drones the rogue AI drones of Eve or salvage drones deployed by NPCs?
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 840	Posted - 2014.05.30 00:44:00 - [68] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. I read through the entire thread, and re-read Wolfman's opening post... And still could not find were anybody said that Salvage is the *only* way to fund the market. Given the name of this thread ( being "[DISCUSSION] - Salvage" ), talking about other market factors such as mining for raw materials and manufacturing would be out of the scope of this thread (because none of that is salvaging). Of course, one could say their lack of communicating other possibilities of market factors aside from salvaging is indicative of salvage being the only way... but again, Legion is still very much in Pre-Alpha. Talking too soon about features still in the idea stage could be unwise. Then again, I suppose that it is also possible that I completely missed some post somewhere stating something pertinent to this. I am a minotaur.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8721	Posted - 2014.05.30 00:49:00 - [69] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Well, until Eve-side manufacturing finally gets linked up with Legion, what alternative is there besides the primary NPC market? Besides the primary NPC market wouldn't be a good source for the secondary market anyways since you won't be able to sell for any higher than what the NPC price is going for. Therefore market trading between the primary and secondary is not profitable unless you isolate the NPC market far away in isolated regions from that of the secondary markets in other (more populated) regions. Salvage to me is a good first step at least. Although I wonder if it's possible to implement mining in Legion. At least for materials that are exclusive to planets. That way mining in Legion won't compete with mining in Eve. Well, saying that "until" crap doesn't help anything. Rather, it should be there day one.............. It should, but knowing how complicated it will be to implement Eve-side manufacturing of Legion gear, can you tell me with a straight face that it's possible to implement on the first day assuming the game is scheduled to be in beta in 12 months? Here is a list of things to consider when it comes to manufacturing in general. This is based off of what I have seen in Eve Online. If you were to make industry the first thing available in Legion, ask yourself these questions. How are the blueprint copies obtained? How many unique materials are called for in the blueprint copy to manufacture 1 unit of a specific item? How many units for every unique material listed on the specific blueprint copy are called for? How many units are produced after every production run? How many production runs can this specific blueprint copy have before it expires? If a planet is a Temperate type, what materials can be extracted from it? What about Barren types or lava types, etc.? How are the materials distributed across each planet type? What tools are needed for scanning down the raw materials and how accurate are they? What tools are needed for extracting the raw materials and what are their yields? Does sec status impact the type of materials you will find on the specific planet? How will you be able to transfer the raw materials to Eve-side for manufacturing? What are the fees to be imposed when using NPC-provided production slots? How long should a specific blueprint take (in number of hours) to manufacture the item in question? What skills are needed to be able to use specific blueprint copies? What are the material efficiency and time efficiency of each blueprint copy? Remember this is assuming we are going to let Eve players handle production as that is the fasted thing to implement for Legion. The production chains have been established by the players for 11 years along with solid logistical systems and efficient ways of researching blueprints for maximum material and time efficiency. Therefore it makes sense to go this route. If Legion were to try to establish their own production methods on day 1, it will likely take far too long. EDIT: Sorry for straying off topic here as I know this is mainly about salvage and not production. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2951	Posted - 2014.05.30 01:55:00 - [70] - Quote Right, now I've had my first coffee I can respond to some questions I saw popping up Where does salvage come from? The idea is that salvage is the result from the aftermath of the many battles fought on planets. This doesnGÇÖt preclude other themes being added in the future though. Maken Tosch asked if the locations could be tied to real battles. This is an idea we really like, might not make it in to the first iteration though. Are there Salvage modules? Our plan is to introuduce modules that can have an impact on salvaging. What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage? Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting. Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all. Lots of cool ideas about drones. Some quick notes on our thinkingGÇª Drones arenGÇÖt immediately aggressive, their reaction to you will be based on your actions and behaviour. It will however be tricky not to come in to conflcit with them at some point since theyGÇÖre not so keen on players scanning and looting. The composition and type of drones in a salvage field can change over the course of a session (a session being until the loot in the field runs dry). The drone hive mind will control this, if a lot of aggression is being directed at the drones you should expect to see tougher drones being deployed. You push, the hive mind pushes back! On player freedomGÇª Sole Fenychs said GÇ£I want total freedom in behaviourGÇ¥. I suppose it depends exactly how you define GÇÿtotal freedomGÇÖ. We will probably place some restrictions and/or controls in high security areas though to protect new players and give them a smoother introduction. We want you to be able to determine the risk/reward level you play at. Outside of that we donGÇÖt plan on stopping the players doing anything. You donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to, you can take whatever you brought with you and do what you want. On manufacturingGÇª Cool, but not the purpose of this thread



CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2951	Posted - 2014.05.30 01:57:00 - [71] - Quote Regis, I hope you're happy with my use of emotes. Took me a while to get my head around that.

Ku Shala The Generals General Tso's Alliance 936	Posted - 2014.05.30 02:42:00 - [72] - Quote Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp? JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2 *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä* Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R Caldari Loyalist
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8721	Posted - 2014.05.30 02:57:00 - [73] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Maken Tosch asked if the locations could be tied to real battles. This is an idea we really like, might not make it in to the first iteration though. As long as it's being considered, I'm ok with waiting. I just think it will be much more immersive to have us come to an outpost that is completely in shambles after a recent match as we approach to loot from whatever is left behind in it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2953	Posted - 2014.05.30 03:12:00 - [74] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp? JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2 Map size is something we'll be determining through playtesting. We have to find the right balance between player count, drone count, enjoyable exploration and the chance of encounters. Our current test map is larger than a skirmish map, it's still early days.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8722	Posted - 2014.05.30 03:45:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ku Shala wrote: Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp? JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2 Map size is something we'll be determining through playtesting. We have to find the right balance between player count, drone count, enjoyable exploration and the chance of encounters. Our current test map is larger than a skirmish map, it's still early days. One more thing. That redline. I like to call her Lady Redline as she looks sexy in red. Anyways, I just like to point out that the redline should be as far back as possible to promote vehicle use and allow solo players to be able to flank random players without being forced into a funnel like you see in skirmish maps. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5882	Posted - 2014.05.30 05:42:00 - [76] - Quote Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones? Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2954	Posted - 2014.05.30 05:58:00 - [77] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones? Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point? Yes to redeploy (at a cost and if there is still space) and yes to individual player

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 268	Posted - 2014.05.30 06:29:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Regis, I hope you're happy with my use of emotes. Took me a while to get my head around that. +1 You have my seal of approval
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5882	Posted - 2014.05.30 06:36:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones? Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point? Yes to redeploy (at a cost and if there is still space) and yes to individual player Interesting. So then it'd be considered good practice to allow my umm... "friends"... to get the drones' attention and then temp-blue with the drones because we're bros? Kinda like it. Though, admittedly, I'm on the fence as to whether I like this method more than drones being all hyper-aggressive and acing anything that gets near their sweet loot Will there be any warning when they're starting to get antsy or will they immediately open fire? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
DAMIOS82 WarRavens Final Resolution. 121	Posted - 2014.05.30 06:39:00 - [80] - Quote That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 846	Posted - 2014.05.30 06:42:00 - [81] - Quote So when you deploy the first time, is it via orbital insertion, or do you just show up at a neutral CRU? (orbital insertion the first time would be an awesome thing) Dust/Eve transfers
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 268	Posted - 2014.05.30 07:13:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage? Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting. Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all. This I like The fee and personalised clone count is similar to what I envisioned with NPC corps providing the transportation (see earlier post). Question: how is gear and vehicles handled in this scenario? Will we pick a limited load out (fits and vehicles), or do we have access to our entire inventory like in Dust? Regarding the neutral CRUs: This concept defiantly makes everything easier since there would not have to be orbital (ship) support to gain access to the district (real or NPC). I guess most temperate planets in High and Low sec would have these for easy access anyway. With that said, I think there need to be some alternative form of transportation, especially for future PC and perhaps really unique sites. (If you don't have neutral CRUs available for example). WARNING: Lore geek question: How does the neutral CRUs explain how do bring the loot back? I would love for some form of EVE integration since I think this is what makes both Legion and EVE unique to any other MMO. However, I understand that the first iteration might not have this. But I think it is important that whatever concept is put in place takes this future into consideration, so we don't end up with radically different systems (or worse, later discover that the second system breaks the first, so no EVE integration will be possible). My preference (as stated in earlier post) is to come up with ONE concept which applies to all travel, and fits in the New Eden universe. The only difference is NPC corps would manage the logistics in high and low sec, which can later be replaced / expanded with real EVE players.
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 231	Posted - 2014.05.30 07:29:00 - [83] - Quote Will there be drones that attempt to harvest biomass from fallen mercs?

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2956	Posted - 2014.05.30 07:57:00 - [84] - Quote DAMIOS82 wrote: That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3137	Posted - 2014.05.30 08:09:00 - [85] - Quote I like the idea that you can only store so much gear and if u want more you need to buy or rent bigger warehouse spaces so when you deploy planet side, you get a cargocan worth of space but you need to buy more cans if you end up with a really good haul. Uuhh put another way, all gear should by a physical thing that moves and or is stored somewhere. So one day if a mcc is shot down the attackers or defenders can scramble to get all the left over goodies :-P also a very easy to explain slavage sites in the first place. Also more goods for logi egg heads to ship about filling transport demand too and from new salvagesites(that idea alone gives me goosebumps :-P) "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Vin Vicious Capital Acquisitions LLC 683	Posted - 2014.05.30 08:22:00 - [86] - Quote Finding salvage fun and interesting will, for the most part, completely depend on the team that creates the maps for legion '#PCMasterRace
Vin Vicious Capital Acquisitions LLC 683	Posted - 2014.05.30 08:23:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: DAMIOS82 wrote: That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool. Backpacks '#PCMasterRace
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3138	Posted - 2014.05.30 08:58:00 - [88] - Quote Short range teleport tech via uplinks to tag items back to safe zone that can be raided :-P (hate the idea of backpacks too small) "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 846	Posted - 2014.05.30 09:06:00 - [89] - Quote Personally, I'd like to call in a drone to carry my stuff away after I find salvage. If Amazon can deliver packages with drones now, surely they'll be able to carry off a broken power converter in Eve :) Dust/Eve transfers
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1002	Posted - 2014.05.30 09:34:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: DAMIOS82 wrote: That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool. It might be cool if you could choose how much of each fit to bring individually - "I'll take 10 of my regular salvage fit, 10 of my heavy fit for when things get hairy, a few of my scanning scout fit..." EDIT: Potentially with the ability to restock individual suits as the round progresses, up to a hard clone limit.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 268	Posted - 2014.05.30 10:43:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. Well, each CRU needs to have some form of link to each clone to facilitate the clone transfer upon death. So that explains the total number of active clones for each district (player cap). Each CRU also have a limited number of clones (or biomass), so you have to pay to "reserve" a specific number of clones, up to a maximum (let say 20%) of the total amount to avoid players with loads of ISK to reserve everything. The biomass get replenished over time (by drones from dead mercs), but it should be possible to temporally drain a CRU. CCP Wolfman wrote: We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool. I think there should defiantly be a limitation the the number of gear you are able to bring. If you change the fitting concept to make each fit a "separate" entity, this will facilitate this quite nicely (I.e when you reserve 10 clones, this includes the gear). I have made a few threads in the past on this subject if you are interested. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2047864#post2047864 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175431#post2175431 This will solve the gear issue since it will be thighed to your drop suite, but it still leaves the vehicles dilemma. My previous post with NPC corps managing the hauling for you would solve this, since you reserve space in a ship not just clones in a CRU. If we spawn in CRUs but the heavy gear needs to be "transported", there will be a natural delay between spawning and bringing down a tank (which could be nice)
Kincate DUST University Ivy League 52	Posted - 2014.05.30 12:07:00 - [92] - Quote For the love of New Eden make the act of looting pain free or at least relatively pain free. If you are going to design a system where it involves killing large amounts of something, design the UI or create a tool to ensure people do not have to click on every single corpse. Im not saying make it instant, because the idea of waiting for someone to kill something and then picking them off with a sniperrifle and stealing their kill, that is Eve. Also limited and local loot storage, and what I mean by that is your inventory. A person should not be able to kill for hours on end in a risky area and not run the risk of losing the salvage he has obtained without taking a break. For ideas on larger salvage, such as vehicle sized kills looting should be different. Perhaps something like recalling your vehicle you "claim" the salvage and a timer (does not have to be long) begins until a RDV (Which should be vulnerable to intercept at least on the way in) come to retrive the huge chunk of whatever. Just some thoughts. 1st Legionhaire
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 231	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:18:00 - [93] - Quote Is like to see drones react to the calling in of vehicles. Ideally calling in vehicles should involve putting down flares somewhere "safe" and then you can call in a vehicle to that location. Flares would be a consumable item that you can run out of. So players will need to think carefully about where and when they will deploy vehicles
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:48:00 - [94] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. Well, each CRU needs to have some form of link to each clone to facilitate the clone transfer upon death. So that explains the total number of active clones for each district (player cap). Each CRU also have a limited number of clones (or biomass), so you have to pay to "reserve" a specific number of clones, up to a maximum (let say 20%) of the total amount to avoid players with loads of ISK to reserve everything. The biomass get replenished over time (by drones from dead mercs), but it should be possible to temporally drain a CRU. To give this logical sense, I'd like to see new areas (i.e. areas that have been newly added/re-added to the game) have CRUs that spawn in via orbital drop, similar to OMS games right now. Having CRUs die off and respawn at times (dunno if players should have the power to destroy them) would add an element of life - Basically, someone is providing a service by spawning CRUs and then getting payments for clone body reservations. Places with more interest have higher clone caps and more CRUs, while less interesting places barely get any support, but lower fees and less attention. You could even possibly make EVE players run such business. If players were capable of destroying CRUs with significant effort in Null-Sec (And remember: Other people will fight you if you pull that ****, because it would mean losing your reserved clones and their gear), it would allow for some nice Mafia-style competition in the CRU business. I'd expect higher security ratings to have laws against this kind of thing. From what I heard about lore/EVE, there'd be Concord intervention if you try to destroy a CRU in High-sec. Low-sec might just require a stealthier approach than Nullsec.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 689	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:59:00 - [95] - Quote Just dropping this here :) Quote: Loot!!! Arrr matey! Arrrrr Arrr cough Arr... cough Personally apart from the basics like suits, weapons and modules, I love the idea of looting garbage! Garbage that has a small ISK value, but gives you some lore or information about the context you found it in. In games like (and not to draw any strong similarities) ESO and WoW. You get a piece called a "Sensor Unit" which says in the description, "This sensor unit has been retrofitted by rogue drone AI, but is far to burnt to be of any use now". For me this kind of thing is very immersive, and raises my gameplay experience vastly. Anyone have any good ideas for loot you want to find down on the planets of EvE? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2668	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:59:00 - [96] - Quote Wolfman, what are your thoughts so far on EVE integration for Legion PVE? Will pilots be able to assist with orbital strike support, logistic support or drones?
Baltazar Pontain Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion 132	Posted - 2014.05.30 16:59:00 - [97] - Quote For me, very cool would be some kind of possibility to skill into it. What I mean is equipment, skills and of course DROPSUITS that are related to that kind of economy. To get the link to EVE ONLINE. Like ORE industrial, mining frigates and mining barges I want to have the possibility to be a good industrial while I am protected by my friends that are more good at shooting things. Some ideas how to obtain loot: * You have to dig for it. (mining) * You have to crack containers. (hacking) Both activities can be done by all players (even with bare hands) but is more successful or rewarding if done with special equipement. Example equipment could be: * Hacking tools. * Mining lasers. * Demolition charges to blow up container sides. * Drills. Also important are tools to find good stuff. I think this part is very important when it comes to loot faster than other players. Possible equipment here: * Metal scanners (to find something in the ground). * Cargo scanner (to determine value before start extracting it). Special dropsuits (from ORE or something like that): * Heavy Mining Suit * Medium Cargo Suit * Light Recon Suit And last but not least deployable structures: * Drill side (Can vastely gather resources from the ground but needs protection) * Cargo Storages (will store stuff that was extracted) * Landing pads (will extract resources to orbit) So to sum up: * Give us tools, skills and drop suits to specialize in the industrial aspect. * Give us varity in the ways we can loot, salvage and find valuuable stuff. (mining, hacking,...) Thanks for the attention :)
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2668	Posted - 2014.05.30 17:29:00 - [98] - Quote I'd like to see destructible loot!
IgniteableAura The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1187	Posted - 2014.05.30 18:05:00 - [99] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? 1. Searching and finding loot is probably best done on probability. I would say you can base chance of loot on "level of drone" you are destroying. Level of drone could be capped based on sec status. Some loot should drop in all areas of space and more rare items drop only in high/low/null. That way you have reasons to be in each section. EX: Proto AR only in Gal HighSec, Balac ARs drop only in Gal low sec space, Krin AR drop only in Null Gal space. Make it so racial varients drop in the correct space. I realize that the Empires don't really work in low/null but create weapons/tools in the various regions of space owned by pirates that correlate. "Guristas flaylock pistol" for example. You can have various objectives/goals. Infilitrate w/o being seen, kill x number of enemies, save a clone from prison, survive increasingly difficult waves of drones (players can choose to "quit" and retain salvage every couple rounds or risk losing it all if they continue, Risk vs. Reward). Classify specific regions with their difficulty levels (1-15) so players can choose what planet they want to go to, which would include what part of space, so gal/mini/amarr/cal and high/low/null. 2. I think for the lore aspect you can say drones are gathering loot, but I don't think they need to be actively doing it in the missions, just make them "drop" loot when they die, not sure if you want to force players to then pick it up. 3. Only allow "PvP" to occur in low/null regions. Don't force players to kill one another for loot, but allow them to work together if they choose and split the winnings. Incorporate "proximity chat" so you can communicate or hear other people communicating without joining a chat channel. (look at MAG on the PS3 for info on proxy chat) 4. Allow players to impact PI colonies in EVE. Either "in defense" or to "attack" Youtube
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8722	Posted - 2014.05.31 00:05:00 - [100] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: 1. Searching and finding loot is probably best done on probability. I would say you can base chance of loot on "level of drone" you are destroying. Level of drone could be capped based on sec status. Some loot should drop in all areas of space and more rare items drop only in high/low/null. That way you have reasons to be in each section. EX: Proto AR only in Gal HighSec, Balac ARs drop only in Gal low sec space, Krin AR drop only in Null Gal space. Make it so racial varients drop in the correct space. I realize that the Empires don't really work in low/null but create weapons/tools in the various regions of space owned by pirates that correlate. "Guristas flaylock pistol" for example. We could take that one step further and make it so that salvage missions are created shortly or immediately after a player-vs-player match concludes with the salvage being based on whatever is left behind. Of course we all know that the after-battle reports show what salvage you got in Dust, but in Legion there should be things that those players may have overlooked and left behind. So if a PvP match had some players using officer gear, there should be a chance of finding leftover officer gear in that area. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2484	Posted - 2014.05.31 02:11:00 - [101] - Quote I think this fits quite well here. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
IgniteableAura The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1188	Posted - 2014.05.31 04:20:00 - [102] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: 1. Searching and finding loot is probably best done on probability. I would say you can base chance of loot on "level of drone" you are destroying. Level of drone could be capped based on sec status. Some loot should drop in all areas of space and more rare items drop only in high/low/null. That way you have reasons to be in each section. EX: Proto AR only in Gal HighSec, Balac ARs drop only in Gal low sec space, Krin AR drop only in Null Gal space. Make it so racial varients drop in the correct space. I realize that the Empires don't really work in low/null but create weapons/tools in the various regions of space owned by pirates that correlate. "Guristas flaylock pistol" for example. We could take that one step further and make it so that salvage missions are created shortly or immediately after a player-vs-player match concludes with the salvage being based on whatever is left behind. Of course we all know that the after-battle reports show what salvage you got in Dust, but in Legion there should be things that those players may have overlooked and left behind. So if a PvP match had some players using officer gear, there should be a chance of finding leftover officer gear in that area. I think that sort of situation would probably work best if the individual players in the battle had an "op-in" salvage quest after the battle. Otherwise I think we would need a huge player base to support the PVE habits. Then again, it could probably keep people from farming the faucet too much. Youtube
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 710	Posted - 2014.05.31 16:20:00 - [103] - Quote will their be skills related to salvage? will i need specialized salvage gear? will there be salvage vehicles? can i hold infinite salvage or do i have to drop off my inventory? can i drop it off in my trusty ol lav? bit coins
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 710	Posted - 2014.05.31 16:28:00 - [104] - Quote also an absolute must is let me salvage during a match just like in dust i can drop in a lav let me drop in salvagers up to like 10 at a time and salvage things myself bit coins
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2052	Posted - 2014.05.31 19:46:00 - [105] - Quote If we are doing salvage... Please dont do it for items. Do it for resources for manufacturing improved items (we are doing that, right?), similar to EVE's salvaging. It makes zero sense for me to go to a battlefield, die 10 times, and then leave with 11 suits. Maybe the stuff needed to make 11 suits, but 11 full formed suits is just stupid bananas. Because you wanted to be something you're not.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8725	Posted - 2014.05.31 20:37:00 - [106] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: If we are doing salvage... Please dont do it for items. Do it for resources for manufacturing improved items (we are doing that, right?), similar to EVE's salvaging. It makes zero sense for me to go to a battlefield, die 10 times, and then leave with 11 suits. Maybe the stuff needed to make 11 suits, but 11 full formed suits is just stupid bananas. Eve Online's salvage system is based on the extraction of broken components. That much is true. But the vast majority of actual salvage comes from the loot that it inside the wrecks. For those of you who never played Eve Online, when a ship in Eve is destroyed, a small portion of the modules fitted on the ship are dropped in space as salvage inside the wreck. This also includes a portion of the stuff already inside the cargo hold. The wreckage itself (that thing that holds the loot) can be targeted and salvaged for broken components. But the value of the broken components often make up only a tiny fraction of the actual value of the loot inside the wreck. But yes, if you die on the ground you shouldn't be able to recover not even 40% of what you lost. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Captain Crutches Nexus Marines 134	Posted - 2014.06.01 00:22:00 - [107] - Quote Baltazar Pontain wrote: * Drills. This please. And let us use them as weapons. Z's progression is the only thing about Legion that gives me doubts. The rest has me totally stoked! @CaptainCrutches
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8727	Posted - 2014.06.01 00:56:00 - [108] - Quote Captain Crutches wrote: Baltazar Pontain wrote: * Drills. This please. And let us use them as weapons. Isn't that what the Forge Gun use to be? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2498	Posted - 2014.06.01 01:23:00 - [109] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Captain Crutches wrote: Baltazar Pontain wrote: * Drills. This please. And let us use them as weapons. Isn't that what the Forge Gun use to be? Not really. Just a mining cannon click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Captain Crutches Nexus Marines 134	Posted - 2014.06.01 03:31:00 - [110] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Captain Crutches wrote: Baltazar Pontain wrote: * Drills. This please. And let us use them as weapons. Isn't that what the Forge Gun use to be? Not really. Just a mining cannon My vision was more of something we could use to, I dunno, pierce the heavens or something. Z's progression is the only thing about Legion that gives me doubts. The rest has me totally stoked! @CaptainCrutches

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 232	Posted - 2014.06.01 11:10:00 - [111] - Quote Does the salvage have to be just lying around? Can we have a drill similar to Firefall. Where you place a drill, a timer begins, nearby drones (and players) are drawn to the noise and attack it, if it's kept intact then you get stuff.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8729	Posted - 2014.06.01 17:49:00 - [112] - Quote Ghural wrote: Does the salvage have to be just lying around? Can we have a drill similar to Firefall. Where you place a drill, a timer begins, nearby drones (and players) are drawn to the noise and attack it, if it's kept intact then you get stuff. CCP can copy the Salvager modules from Eve. Make it an equipment item that, when held, emits a beam that first scans the damaged hardware looking for modules that may have been left behind and then eats through the surface to access those modules. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Zortaur Vaax Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 2	Posted - 2014.06.01 20:56:00 - [113] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? A special explorer type (with special suit type) which has a number of probes to search an area (e.g. probes can be launched into a direction (let's say 200-300 meters) and are operated/tracked with a device).. For example he or she can search for loot or do reconaissance with those probes. He or she also uses scanner gadgets to search for traps, doors secret doors and what not. He or she is excellent for creating diversions etc. The quality of the salvage can be investigated by scanners and probes in advance so you are able to go to the most valuable first and retrieve it. What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? A race between multiple groups to get the loot first (first points for getting there first) but also to get the loot to a safe area (second points for getting it out). Viable strategies here would be for example chokepoints, area denial, ambush, cover. How do you think drones should behave? Squad based (3-5 drones, 1 leader), if one is alerted they group together to face the threat immediately.
God Hates Lags The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1213	Posted - 2014.06.02 02:35:00 - [114] - Quote This is a great idea, but I have some concerns. Dust514, which I presume Legion will be at least something like given that its using all of its code, is a team based game. Perhaps one of the most team oriented games on the market. Given this the introduction of a free for all mode will be challenging for a number of reasons. 1. Vehicles already need at least two people working in coordination to take them down. Using an AV weapon in a free for all mode will make you ripe for ganking, so no one will use them. This means that Vehicles will reign supreme unless they are specifically forbidden in this gamemode. 2. Even with that, dedicated Logis will be essentially left out of this gamemode as they will be useless. CCP has stated that it wants to favor increased specialization with its new progression system and developing an entire gamemode that excludes a large number of roles is not a good idea. 3. Heavies too will be at a disadvantage in a speed-based race against the clock gamemode. I can see them still being used sparingly depending on map size but overall they will probably take a backseat as well. This leaves scouts and assaults as viable options in this gamemode assuming vehicles are prohibited. Of these two, even if assaults as significantly buffed from where they are now, I see scouts as the true champions of this gamemode because of their speed and their ability to cloak, which allows them to avoid engagements other classes would be forced into. While the others are fighting scouts could safely sneak past them and get the goods or easily stealth kill the survivors of other engagements. This gamemode, as I see it now, is much too limiting in terms of which classes would dominate it. You need to find a way to make every role competitive. As a side note, while free-for-all is good, I would also love to see a team based salvage gamemode, even one where eve pilots can orbital and also scan down the planet for enemies, being attacked of course, periodically by NPCs in league with the drones. "Look what I destroyed in two days" Kane Spero Wolfica stole my signature
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2877	Posted - 2014.06.02 10:10:00 - [115] - Quote I think making Salvage the main source of item production is a bad idea, there is nothimg wrong with the concept. But how much of the games economy will come from people salvaging items? I should really have the opportunity to salvage if I need a few quick bucks, but it shouldn't be a steady source of income unless it's practically all I do Has EvE production been considered? This would be a very meaningful way of connecting the two games, not to memtion it would expamd and inflate the EvE econmy even more. How are you going to ensure there is never a shprtage of items? Im running low on my beloved ACR, so I go out to salvage, come back with a load of junk I don't want and sell it on the market, I then go to buy some ACR's with my hard earned ISK . . . and find that no-one is selling them. How are you going to ensure this doesn't happen? Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Joey-Number1 Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven 104	Posted - 2014.06.02 10:30:00 - [116] - Quote What kind of view we will have when not in a combat, as exploration and salvaging is kind of free roam walk, observing and stuff. It wouldn't be bad to have two modes, one mode for combat or when it's incoming and second just for walking, exploring and doing other stuff. Tho not saying there is no danger in exploration, just modes that you can maybe change by yourself, if you want to rather take your weapon in some cases of more awareness, where you are not sure if something can surprise you or in unknown areas and so on. Minmatar Logistics since the beginning. Mass Driver my first and the only fully specialized weapon. Explorer.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8734	Posted - 2014.06.02 11:20:00 - [117] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I think making Salvage the main source of item production is a bad idea, there is nothimg wrong with the concept. But how much of the games economy will come from people salvaging items? I should really have the opportunity to salvage if I need a few quick bucks, but it shouldn't be a steady source of income unless it's practically all I do Has EvE production been considered? This would be a very meaningful way of connecting the two games, not to memtion it would expamd and inflate the EvE econmy even more. How are you going to ensure there is never a shprtage of items? Im running low on my beloved ACR, so I go out to salvage, come back with a load of junk I don't want and sell it on the market, I then go to buy some ACR's with my hard earned ISK . . . and find that no-one is selling them. How are you going to ensure this doesn't happen? On your last point, supply and demand will ensure there is something for everyone. It will be pricey but you'll get it. Remember that if there is a demand for it someone will figure out the most efficient way to get it for you. Trust me. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect 563	Posted - 2014.06.02 15:19:00 - [118] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman Eve players mining planets or moons have rouge mercenaries or are infested with drone then they put up a contract and provide orbital support depending on the type of mission. Legion on PS4 "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart"
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition 3004	Posted - 2014.06.02 16:36:00 - [119] - Quote Honestly... I think you should borrow very heavily from Eve's salvage system for this. You can directly loot modules from corpses (ala NPCs and PvP looting) while salvaging additional components used to manufacture modules in a station. Allow players to reprocess modules they don't want for additional components to manufacture the items they do want. This would be a critical component to the economy imo. If items are reprocessable it provides a floor to any items isk cost. That way we don't have basic armor plates trading for 1 isk as they would have to drop at absurd rates to maintain their lack of rarity. Allow looting in open world pvp as well as contracts. Have a players body persist for say... 60-90s in a contract match and a player can roll up and 'hold E to loot' which takes like 4-5s and automatically snags an couple modules with a smaller chances at equipment or weapons. To keep logistics to a minimum, looted bodies are teleported away (similar to recalling vehicles) and the modules are automatically placed in a players inventory. This would give a similar feel to 'Kill Confirmed' in COD, which is a really neat game mode imo (as much as we all hate COD). After a certain amount of time has passed (the 60-90s or whatever), the player's body is consumed by nanites similar to how Dust is now and becomes unlootable. This gives an additional component to gameplay... is it worth running out and trying to loot that corpse? Should I just stay safe in cover in case there is another enemy nearby? Its all just additional depth.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3569	Posted - 2014.06.02 21:04:00 - [120] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I like the idea that you can only store so much gear and if u want more you need to buy or rent bigger warehouse spaces so when you deploy planet side, you get a cargocan worth of space but you need to buy more cans if you end up with a really good haul. Uuhh put another way, all gear should by a physical thing that moves and or is stored somewhere. So one day if a mcc is shot down the attackers or defenders can scramble to get all the left over goodies :-P also a very easy to explain slavage sites in the first place. Also more goods for logi egg heads to ship about filling transport demand too and from new salvagesites(that idea alone gives me goosebumps :-P) Good point. When an MCC is blown up at the end of a Skirmish match, it is not just the gear lost during the battle that would be salvageable. All of the Infantry gear and vehicles that were in the MCC would get scattered across the landscape when it blows up. Although only some of it would be in usable condition. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

lateriss ObscuriLateris 10	Posted - 2014.06.02 22:13:00 - [121] - Quote When I think of Drones I am thinking in terms as a pilot in space where we have control and behavior options. Drones orbiting targets, combat drones, sentry drones, electronic warfare drones, salvage drones, mining drones, etc. This works in space. I have to ask what are the limits within a planets surface? What are there sizes? What are there animations/ Drones in Eve Legion = so cool! Can we see some concept art for your drones?
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 437	Posted - 2014.06.03 01:26:00 - [122] - Quote What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? Encounters: Simple and easy looting of recent battles. Easy to find and easy to retrieve. Larger quantity with a lower chance of high quality Random- This includes coming across random bodies and vehicle wrecks that when accessed contain components, scrap, ammunition and usable gear. Wrecks should be random and scattered around. They stay in one place until looted then eventually respawn with new stuff in another location at a later time. Intentional- Scanners or salvage drones could be used to find larger looting sites with a higher concentration of stuff. Things like the site of a skirmish between two forces which would have many corpses and wrecks to loot. Or larger vehicle wrecks. Sizes could range from relatively small to fairly large sites. The quantity of loot would be higher but there would be more risk because such places tend to draw other would be looters. Underground: Hard to find and difficult to retrieve. Basically it is stuff forgotten about or overlooked that gets buried. Player must locate the underground anomaly and dig it out using drones or a tool of some kind. The process takes a while during which the player is at risk. However the rewards are better. Either it is damaged beyond repair from being underground or it has been preserved. Could be old weapons, dropsuits, or whole vehicles Small quantity with a higher chance of quality The actual salvage process Each body or wreck must be hacked by the player. This should take some time depending on the actual size of the wreck. Once hacked, the items would then be moved from the wreck to the players inventory or storage vehicle. It should not be as simple as just hacking it then its yours. Salvage should have to be transported around and be a physical thing. To be taken into orbit when the merc leaves the surface
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 438	Posted - 2014.06.03 01:32:00 - [123] - Quote The use of personal drones would be perfect for this type of gameplay. Salvage Drones- A sort of scouting drone. Players would send them out and the drone would search out and mark down possible locations of salvagable materials. It would also let you know if it detects enemies near it. That way the player can either avoid other mercs or actively search them out to team up or try to steal their stuff Since im expecting some sort of hacking to be required in the salvaging process. The Salvage Drone could also be given a command to not just search out sites but actually start the hacking process so that when you arrive all you need to do is pick it up. Combat Drones- Im thinking along the lines of the lone player. He could use them as back up incase of a fight or send them out with the Salvage Drone to try and stall any would be opportunists from stealing his loot
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8736	Posted - 2014.06.03 01:37:00 - [124] - Quote Magpie Raven wrote: What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? Encounters: Simple and easy looting of recent battles. Easy to find and easy to retrieve. Larger quantity with a lower chance of high quality Random- This includes coming across random bodies and vehicle wrecks that when accessed contain components, scrap, ammunition and usable gear. Wrecks should be random and scattered around. They stay in one place until looted then eventually respawn with new stuff in another location at a later time. Intentional- Scanners or salvage drones could be used to find larger looting sites with a higher concentration of stuff. Things like the site of a skirmish between two forces which would have many corpses and wrecks to loot. Or larger vehicle wrecks. Sizes could range from relatively small to fairly large sites. The quantity of loot would be higher but there would be more risk because such places tend to draw other would be looters. Underground: Hard to find and difficult to retrieve. Basically it is stuff forgotten about or overlooked that gets buried. Player must locate the underground anomaly and dig it out using drones or a tool of some kind. The process takes a while during which the player is at risk. However the rewards are better. Either it is damaged beyond repair from being underground or it has been preserved. Could be old weapons, dropsuits, or whole vehicles Small quantity with a higher chance of quality The actual salvage process Each body or wreck must be hacked by the player. This should take some time depending on the actual size of the wreck. Once hacked, the items would then be moved from the wreck to the players inventory or storage vehicle. It should not be as simple as just hacking it then its yours. Salvage should have to be transported around and be a physical thing. To be taken into orbit when the merc leaves the surface An acceptable concept for me. Some of the loot we find should be tied somehow to recent battles. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 438	Posted - 2014.06.03 01:54:00 - [125] - Quote What kind of player interaction do you think would be interesting? I think a system of first come first serve would be interesting. When a player gets to an area that is currently unoccupied they can put down a beacon letting other players know that the site is claimed and that they are asking for a fight if they enter it. It would include sensors that let the player know when someone crosses into the area. This could lead to interesting situations where multiple small groups come across a possibly lucrative area. They can either use proxy chat to negotiate terms and share it, or they can shoot each other until only one group is left in order to lay claim to it. When one group succeeds they continue about their salvaging business until someone else challenges them. Even if it does not functionally do anything other than warn others off, it still would be important tool i think in securing an area. Just psychologically it would be interesting. A benefit is that it would be useful for newer players to avoid being slaughtered when they accidentally cross into another groups perceived territory without knowing why. And it would also function as a warning system letting players know that they are potentially under attack. No one likes going about their salvaging business then suddenly getting shot to pieces with no warning. Another cool aspect is that this leaves options open for players to fit suits specifically so they can sneak past the sensor without the owner being notified. Then they could wreak havoc by either assassinating the owner of the sensor or simply disabling it letting their buddies into the area unnoticed Simply put its a warning system. It lets others know that you wish to challenge them for whatever loot they are working on, and lets you know if you are under attack, while also leaving room for sabotage and sneaky tactics. The player can then scan the enemy and assess the situation. Either run to fight another day or fight for whats yours
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 438	Posted - 2014.06.03 02:20:00 - [126] - Quote What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? There should be a variety of sites that have the potential to cause massive fights between players. Maybe its a crashed ship or an ancient battlefield. Small skirmishes are bound to happen but there needs to be the potential for large unscripted battles that start out a small unorganized shootout and becomes a massive organized effort due to everyone calling in reinforcements.
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 438	Posted - 2014.06.03 02:33:00 - [127] - Quote How do you think drones should behave? There needs to be a very large diversity in drone types and operating procedures. There needs to be enough drone types of varying intelligence so that the difficulty can be ramped up at lower sec levels without just increasing the number of drones. Out on the field I think some more passive drones should be focused on salvaging and not fighting only attacking if provoked while others are more combat oriented. Attacking if they notice you. Others even are actively searching out mercs to kill. The drones should never retreat. They keep fighting until either you or it is dead. Swarm tactics should be commonly used by the smallest drone types however simply using a hoard style strength in numbers type method should be avoided I think. This would quickly get boring if that is how you plan to increase the difficulty. Drones should become more dangerous and harder to defeat through not just numbers but also interesting weapon combos, surprise attacks, simple tactics, and an increasing mix of drone types. Save the hoard stuff for Sansha
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Top Men. 438	Posted - 2014.06.03 02:51:00 - [128] - Quote How do you think drones should behave? Why not include massive Player versus Drone events? Every once in a while say a drone Hive begins to get out of control and an alert is sent out to all nearby mercs telling them their assitance is needed. Instead of players fighting other players. Mercs could all sort of band together to fight the drones. It should be huge on an epic scale. Fighting happening across the whole district. With the difficulty increasing as more and more players join. I would love to see this happen. Just imagine hoards of drones filling the empty spaces of a district just rushing into the firing lines of us mercenaries, ripping them apart with plasma, laser, rail, and projectile tech. While jets do strafing runs and tanks take aim at the monstrous mechanical creatures the Hive Queen has made. Eventually the players would destroy the Queen and the Hive. Say certain drone structures need to be destroyed in order to make the Hive Core vulnerable. No time limits. It takes as long as it takes or until the players cant afford to continue fighting. I think the possibility of defeat would be very cool These kinds of in game things would do wonders in uniting players together in a pulse pounding battle that everyone will talk about afterwards. There could be similar things done with Sanshas Nation. Except Zombies instead of Drones. The enemies tactics would obviously be very different and the conditions of victory would change. (Slow dumb hard to kill Zombies mixed with more intelligent soldiers would be a very interesting enemy to fight.) Obviously corporations would get involved and certain people would take charge of the effort. However the most interesting thing would be what happens after the battle. During the fight everyone is working together against a common enemy. Afterwards I think it would be fun to watch as things turn into a total crapshoot as all the various factions and corps turn on each to salvage the battlefield
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1379	Posted - 2014.06.03 08:37:00 - [129] - Quote My thinking is that the current Incursion mechanic in Eve would be your best model in terms of how hard these salvage sorties should get. I would want the hardest of them in Null sec and make the Drones there, at least as hard to take down as a HAV is now. The point being that turning on your team to steal their loot should be a very risky enterprise as a huge amount of co-operation will be needed to complete such Null sec salvaging. I would also like the Legion equivalent of the Squad Finder be able to advertise Salvage Sorties like Incursion Fleets do now in the Fleet Finder in Eve. In term of the salvage itself, I understand the common, un-common and rare items that Z spoke of in his Fanfest presentation is likely to equate to High Sec, Low and Null Sec. But with his idea of switching to a BPO suit, have their been any thoughts as to BPO suits being part of the salvage? This would be an interesting concept and an SP sink too if for instance a BPO suit found in Null sec was essentially an officer suit from a Faction in Eve. Take for instance discovering a Mordu's Legion Assault suit with an extra Low Slot over a Proto Gallante Assault but requiring not only to be fully specced into the Gallante Assault role but Caldari Logistics as well before you could use it? It might make balancing a bit more difficult but being able to own and operate such a suit would be a terrific goal for a player to aspire to and provide a massive SP sink to increase the game longevity and push players to spec into other roles and not just the FOTM's. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2969	Posted - 2014.06.03 09:33:00 - [130] - Quote Just so you know, I'm still alive and reading. Just been a bit busy. Will catch up on this thread soon.


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 860	Posted - 2014.06.03 10:56:00 - [131] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Just so you know, I'm still alive and reading. Just been a bit busy. Will catch up on this thread soon. It might help if you put a few thoughts out there to give us a framework to build off. I.e.What are three concepts that CCP Wolfman wants us to understand about how he envisages salvage gameplay? Dust/Eve transfers
Kincate DUST University Ivy League 54	Posted - 2014.06.03 11:28:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: DAMIOS82 wrote: That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool. Well the idea of limited resources is very Eve like. Perhaps a skill Clone Management or something which influences the amount of clones you can have actively awaiting you. This could either fit in very well or very poorly when you start to develop other aspects of the game such as the corporate on corporate planetary invasions. The thing is you might also consider the limitations being purely logistical. If your place is a physical location with physical items (virtually) and lets say all your assets are in Jita, and there is an open area in Ostingelle what you have in Ostingelle should consist of what you have or what you can move there. This might also not work well with any plans to create a quick play option. Last thing I will post on this for now, Clone depots, given a specific area (Region, Constellation, etc) There could be a "Clone Depot" where you purchase your clones from and those clones are only usuable for that Depot's region. 1st Legionhaire
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3573	Posted - 2014.06.03 12:09:00 - [133] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: This is a great idea, but I have some concerns. Dust514, which I presume Legion will be at least something like given that its using all of its code, is a team based game. Perhaps one of the most team oriented games on the market. Given this the introduction of a free for all mode will be challenging for a number of reasons. 1. Vehicles already need at least two people working in coordination to take them down. Using an AV weapon in a free for all mode will make you ripe for ganking, so no one will use them. This means that Vehicles will reign supreme unless they are specifically forbidden in this gamemode. 2. Even with that, dedicated Logis will be essentially left out of this gamemode as they will be useless. CCP has stated that it wants to favor increased specialization with its new progression system and developing an entire gamemode that excludes a large number of roles is not a good idea. 3. Heavies too will be at a disadvantage in a speed-based race against the clock gamemode. I can see them still being used sparingly depending on map size but overall they will probably take a backseat as well. This leaves scouts and assaults as viable options in this gamemode assuming vehicles are prohibited. Of these two, even if assaults as significantly buffed from where they are now, I see scouts as the true champions of this gamemode because of their speed and their ability to cloak, which allows them to avoid engagements other classes would be forced into. While the others are fighting scouts could safely sneak past them and get the goods or easily stealth kill the survivors of other engagements. This gamemode, as I see it now, is much too limiting in terms of which classes would dominate it. You need to find a way to make every role competitive. As a side note, while free-for-all is good, I would also love to see a team based salvage gamemode, even one where eve pilots can orbital and also scan down the planet for enemies, being attacked of course, periodically by NPCs in league with the drones. My understanding was that you could specify which Region/Planet/District you que into, so if you want to play as a team, then you and your friends/Corp/Alliance just que for the same salvage district. As long as it is not full you should all get in and be able to play together. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2531	Posted - 2014.06.03 12:10:00 - [134] - Quote my main question about this is why in gods name is nobody making weapons for the legion users.... is their a fluff reason nobody in eve's industrial focused economy wants to make weapons for these planet battles.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3143	Posted - 2014.06.03 12:48:00 - [135] - Quote Concorde i dont think we are going to be a legal thinh for much longer and will be legging it to the free factions just a hunch :-P "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 533	Posted - 2014.06.03 12:58:00 - [136] - Quote calisk galern wrote: my main question about this is why in gods name is nobody making weapons for the legion users.... is their a fluff reason nobody in eve's industrial focused economy wants to make weapons for these planet battles. Sansha Kuvakei was a wealthy Caldari industrial mogul whose family had made its fortune in armament manufacturing during the Gallente-Caldari War. As soon as my EVE chars can make weapons and equip for Legion, i hope nobody else does it too so i can be like Sansha =p
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3574	Posted - 2014.06.03 15:11:00 - [137] - Quote Salvage Companies, Digital Tokens, & Universal Inventory Digital Tokens: With the ability to download into a clone half way across the galaxy, you can travel a the speed of data, but your stuff canGÇÖt. To accommodate the logistical challenges that this poses, the Universal Inventory Corporation created the Digital Token system, so that your stuff can travel at the speed of data as well. A Digital Token represents ownership of an item. When you spawn into battle, 1 Digital Token is transferred to the Corporation operating the Warbarge for every item on your fit. If you donGÇÖt die, you get the Digital Tokens back at the end of the match when you turn in your gear. If you do die and lose the gear, then the Corporation can redeem those Digital Tokens at a Universal Inventory warhouse to replenish their inventory, so that the Corporation is reimbursed for any gear that is lost (with the exception of gear lost when the MCC blows up, which is a direct financial loss to the Corporation). This places the fiscal risk on the Mercenary rather than the Corporation. Before this system was in place, the Corporations wanted to impose standard cheap fits to reduce their financial risk. The Mercenaries felt that they knew better what equipment worked best in the heat of battle. With the new system the Corporations would still provide the standard fits (starter fits) but Mercenaries can buy Digital Tokens with their own ISK which they can redeem with the Corporations to be able to use better gear. Thus the Corporations did not have to take the financial hit if expansive gear was lost in battle. The key to the system is that the physical items are not sold. They can only be exchanged for the correct Digital Token. Instead it is the Digital Token which is sold. Salvage Companies: Salvage Companies operate Warbarges as well, but they are not hiring Mercenaries to fight battles for them. Instead they are selling their services to the Mercenaries. Once a Salvage Company finds a promising salvage area, they will advertize it, and Mercenaries will purchase batches of clones from the Salvage CompanyGÇÖs Warbarge, and redeem Digital Tokens to fit those clones, in order to search for salvage. When an item is salvaged it is turned over to the Salvage Company, which enters it into the Universal Inventory database, and provides the Mercenary who found the item with a Digital Token, provided by Universal Inventory, for that item (make & model). Once the Digital Token has been provided to the Merc, the item belongs to Universal Inventory. The Salvage Company will tern in all such items at a Universal Inventory warehouse at the end of their salvage mission. The Salvage Companies make their profit from a markup on the clone price which they charge to the Mercenaries who use their services. Universal Inventory: Universal Inventory is actually a Corporation that runs the Digital Token system. Universal Inventory makes its profit off of small service charges on every transaction. When an item is entered into Universal InventoryGÇÖs database, Universal Inventory takes the physical item in exchange for a Digital Token which represents ownership of 1 of that item. When a Corporation fits out a Warbarge they need to purchase a complete inventory of every item their Mercenaries might need in battle while the Warbarge is deployed. To stock the Warbarge these Corporations go to Universal Inventory and turn over a Digital Tokens for each item that they need. If they donGÇÖt have the necessary Digital Tokens, then they must buy them from the market. This results in a large percentage of the Digital Tokens returning to Universal Inventory. When an item is destroyed in battle, that item is removed from the Universal Inventory database, and Universal Inventory then destroys one of the Digital Tokens in its possession. This insures that there is only 1 Digital Token in circulation for every physical item being tracked in the Universal Inventory database. If Universal Inventory accumulates more Digital Tokens than they need to insure the balance of Tokens to Items, then they will sell the excess Digital Tokens on the open market, and those tokens can then be used to redeem items from Universal Inventory warehouses. Life Cycle of Salvaged Items: - Mercenary finds an item, which is given to a Salvage Company in exchange for a new Digital Token. - Salvage Company turns the item over to Universal Inventory. - Combat Corp acquires Digital Tokens, which they give to Universal Inventory in exchange for the physical items those tokens represent, in order to fill the inventory on their Warbarges. - When a Mercenary spawns into battle the Corporation which owns the Warbarge exchanges the item for an appropriate Digital Token. - Item is lost in battle and the Combat Corp notifies Universal Inventory that the item is lost. Universal Inventory destroys one of the Digital Tokens in their possession. Life Cycle of a Digital Token: The Digital Toke is created when the Salvaged item is entered in the Universal Inventory database, and a Digital Token is destroyed when the item is removed from the Universal Inventory database. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Severus Smith Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:15:00 - [138] - Quote I don't know if it's been mentioned on how exactly we will be salvaging. But here's my two cents: I don't want to run around with a salvaging laser shooting at the ground. That to me is just silly, and boring. What I would love is to deploy to a salvage site, find a good area, and then call in a "Terrestrial Salvager". This would be a large NPC vehicle that I need to defend while it salvages the immediate area. Rogue drones hate it - and thus try to destroy it - so they would be my main adversary, but enemy players can also try to capture it (very hard) or destroy it to ruin my day. They could also call in their own Salvager nearby and we could work together to defend the area... This makes salvaging missions more defense based. I deploy, find a good salvage site, call in a Salavger, defend it for the X minutes it takes to salvage the area, then it takes off with the salvage loot and I either undeploy or do it all again at another salvage site. The lower the sec status, and the more drones in the area, equals much better salvage and much stronger Rogue Drones.
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3157	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:19:00 - [139] - Quote @Severus Smith Agreed. I do not want to revisit the days of sweating in Entropia Universe. Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2511	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:26:00 - [140] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I like the idea that you can only store so much gear and if u want more you need to buy or rent bigger warehouse spaces so when you deploy planet side, you get a cargocan worth of space but you need to buy more cans if you end up with a really good haul. Uuhh put another way, all gear should by a physical thing that moves and or is stored somewhere. So one day if a mcc is shot down the attackers or defenders can scramble to get all the left over goodies :-P also a very easy to explain slavage sites in the first place. Also more goods for logi egg heads to ship about filling transport demand too and from new salvagesites(that idea alone gives me goosebumps :-P) Good point. When an MCC is blown up at the end of a Skirmish match, it is not just the gear lost during the battle that would be salvageable. All of the Infantry gear and vehicles that were in the MCC would get scattered across the landscape when it blows up. Although only some of it would be in usable condition. The gear is not stored in the MCC, nor is any vehicles.............. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2511	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:30:00 - [141] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: calisk galern wrote: my main question about this is why in gods name is nobody making weapons for the legion users.... is their a fluff reason nobody in eve's industrial focused economy wants to make weapons for these planet battles. Sansha Kuvakei was a wealthy Caldari industrial mogul whose family had made its fortune in armament manufacturing during the Gallente-Caldari War. As soon as my EVE chars can make weapons and equip for Legion, i hope nobody else does it too so i can be like Sansha =p Why would you want to be a phyco who controls the people we call zombies? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2511	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:34:00 - [142] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on how exactly we will be salvaging. But here's my two cents: I don't want to run around with a salvaging laser shooting at the ground. That to me is just silly, and boring. What I would love is to deploy to a salvage site, find a good area, and then call in a "Terrestrial Salvager". This would be a large vehicle that I need to defend while it salvages the immediate area. Ratshate it - and thus try to destroy it - so they would be my main adversary, but enemy players can also try to capture it (very hard) or destroy it to ruin my day. They could also call in their own Salvager nearby and we could work together to defend the area... This makes salvaging more defense based. I deploy, find a good salvage site, call in a Salavger, defend it for the X minutes it takes to salvage the area, then it takes off with the salvage loot and I either undeploy or do it all again at another salvage site. The lower the sec status, and the more rats in the area, equals much better salvage and much stronger Rats. Fixed. There shouldn't only be one enemy NPC type; that would get boring. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2511	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:35:00 - [143] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: @Severus Smith Agreed. I do not want to revisit the days of sweating in Entropia Universe. That looks god awful (never played, and now I don't want to ) click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3157	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:46:00 - [144] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: @Severus Smith Agreed. I do not want to revisit the days of sweating in Entropia Universe. That looks god awful (never played, and now I don't want to ) The thing about Entropia universe is the creators of the game allow player to turn in-game currency (PEDs) into real world cash. You are also able to purchase in-game land and essentially make money off collecting rent from players who use the land. Sweating is the very basic component of the game, which also allows you to make money. People who are very poor in RL have actually made enough to get by through sweating in a video game. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123163-Virtual-Moon-Over-Entropia-Universe-Sells-For-150-000 Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8738	Posted - 2014.06.03 19:36:00 - [145] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: @Severus Smith Agreed. I do not want to revisit the days of sweating in Entropia Universe. That looks god awful (never played, and now I don't want to ) The thing about Entropia universe is the creators of the game allow player to turn in-game currency (PEDs) into real world cash. You are also able to purchase in-game land and essentially make money off collecting rent from players who use the land. Sweating is the very basic component of the game, which also allows you to make money. People who are very poor in RL have actually made enough to get by through sweating in a video game. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123163-Virtual-Moon-Over-Entropia-Universe-Sells-For-150-000 But is that kind of system balanced at all? I never played it but I doubt it, though. If someone is able to farm the in game currency effectively enough, wouldn't the value of said currency diminish over time? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Severus Smith Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.06.03 21:39:00 - [146] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Severus Smith wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on how exactly we will be salvaging. But here's my two cents: I don't want to run around with a salvaging laser shooting at the ground. That to me is just silly, and boring. What I would love is to deploy to a salvage site, find a good area, and then call in a "Terrestrial Salvager". This would be a large vehicle that I need to defend while it salvages the immediate area. Ratshate it - and thus try to destroy it - so they would be my main adversary, but enemy players can also try to capture it (very hard) or destroy it to ruin my day. They could also call in their own Salvager nearby and we could work together to defend the area... This makes salvaging more defense based. I deploy, find a good salvage site, call in a Salavger, defend it for the X minutes it takes to salvage the area, then it takes off with the salvage loot and I either undeploy or do it all again at another salvage site. The lower the sec status, and the more rats in the area, equals much better salvage and much stronger Rats. Fixed. There shouldn't only be one enemy NPC type; that would get boring. Oh, I agree. Truthfully, I think that CCP should really use human NPC's for us to fight against. They already have some art assets (our dropsuits) and great lore for who we would be fighting. Guristas, Angels, etc pirates in higher security level 1 - 3 contracts. Sansha in lower security level 3 - 4 contracts. And the original Gen 1 DUST mercenaries being the hardest in nullsec level 4+ contracts. Just reskin the dropsuits, alter the HP / damage / aim stats and you have a wide range of enemies for us to fight from low easily killed pirates to insanely hard Gen 1 mercenaries. Drones just seem very limited (but cool). They're cool, but the idea of them being such a huge nuisance that are all over the galaxy (and not just the drone regions) is a bit far fetched to me. Plus, it's hard to differentiate them. You can make three skins for a dropsuit and suddenly I can fight the Guristas OR the Sansha OR the Angels. With drones, I am always fighting drones - they really don't have factions or anything to add lore flavor. And with human NPC's they can have a wide range of motives for conflict - Gurista salvage teams, Sansha soldiers kidnapping colonists, Angel raiders.. raiding. Drones just do what drones do. And while cool, it's going to get kinda boring...
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2516	Posted - 2014.06.03 22:31:00 - [147] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Severus Smith wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on how exactly we will be salvaging. But here's my two cents: I don't want to run around with a salvaging laser shooting at the ground. That to me is just silly, and boring. What I would love is to deploy to a salvage site, find a good area, and then call in a "Terrestrial Salvager". This would be a large vehicle that I need to defend while it salvages the immediate area. Ratshate it - and thus try to destroy it - so they would be my main adversary, but enemy players can also try to capture it (very hard) or destroy it to ruin my day. They could also call in their own Salvager nearby and we could work together to defend the area... This makes salvaging more defense based. I deploy, find a good salvage site, call in a Salavger, defend it for the X minutes it takes to salvage the area, then it takes off with the salvage loot and I either undeploy or do it all again at another salvage site. The lower the sec status, and the more rats in the area, equals much better salvage and much stronger Rats. Fixed. There shouldn't only be one enemy NPC type; that would get boring. Oh, I agree. Truthfully, I think that CCP should really use human NPC's for us to fight against. They already have some art assets (our dropsuits) and great lore for who we would be fighting. Guristas, Angels, etc pirates in higher security level 1 - 3 contracts. Sansha in lower security level 3 - 4 contracts. And the original Gen 1 DUST mercenaries being the hardest in nullsec level 4+ contracts. Just reskin the dropsuits, alter the HP / damage / aim stats and you have a wide range of enemies for us to fight from low easily killed pirates to insanely hard Gen 1 mercenaries. Drones just seem very limited (but cool). They're cool, but the idea of them being such a huge nuisance that are all over the galaxy (and not just the drone regions) is a bit far fetched to me. Plus, it's hard to differentiate them. You can make three skins for a dropsuit and suddenly I can fight the Guristas OR the Sansha OR the Angels. With drones, I am always fighting drones - they really don't have factions or anything to add lore flavor. And with human NPC's they can have a wide range of motives for conflict - Gurista salvage teams, Sansha soldiers kidnapping colonists, Angel raiders.. raiding. Drones just do what drones do. And while cool, it's going to get kinda boring... That's not how missions rats work, and we are the gen 1 mercs, but I think you get the gist of what I want: variation in security mission rats. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Severus Smith Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.06.03 22:35:00 - [148] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: That's not how missions rats work, and we are the gen 1 mercs, but I think you get the gist of what I want: variation in security mission rats. We're Gen 2 clones. Created after Mordu's Private Trials. Else we'd all be going crazy, scrawling 514 across walls with our own blood, and trying to kill everyone.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2516	Posted - 2014.06.03 23:18:00 - [149] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: That's not how missions rats work, and we are the gen 1 mercs, but I think you get the gist of what I want: variation in security mission rats. We're Gen 2 clones. Created after Mordu's Private Trials. Else we'd all be going crazy, scrawling 514 across walls with our own blood, and trying to kill everyone. This thread says otherwise. And I tried finding a link saying that we are second gen, but I have currently found nothing. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
lateriss ObscuriLateris 10	Posted - 2014.06.04 05:05:00 - [150] - Quote calisk galern wrote: my main question about this is why in gods name is nobody making weapons for the legion users.... is their a fluff reason nobody in eve's industrial focused economy wants to make weapons for these planet battles. Crafting! I would craft weapons in Eve for the boots on the ground. But I would prefer to do it in Legion.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3144	Posted - 2014.06.04 12:44:00 - [151] - Quote Only those weak of mind went crazy plenty of us headed mordus 514 call and are fine though nrarly all 1st gen pc characters(weekend testers) have now gone into retariment. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors 2474	Posted - 2014.06.04 13:10:00 - [152] - Quote I would like to see the salvaging skills become something huge in this game. Scanners specific to types of containers, salavaging tools for different kinds of containers and materials. Something so no one person can salvage more than 20% of item types without at least a year worth of SP. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Severus Smith Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.06.04 14:49:00 - [153] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: That's not how missions rats work, and we are the gen 1 mercs, but I think you get the gist of what I want: variation in security mission rats. We're Gen 2 clones. Created after Mordu's Private Trials. Else we'd all be going crazy, scrawling 514 across walls with our own blood, and trying to kill everyone. This thread says otherwise. And I tried finding a link saying that we are second gen, but I have currently found nothing. That thread actually says otherwise... if you commented "I wish to hunt or become the hunted" then you could possibly get a Templar Renegade character added to your account for a few days for you to play. Any player who kills a Templar Renegade 3x times gets an ISK bounty. The Templar Renegades are the Gen 1 clones who did not join the Amarr Empire. We are the Gen 2+ clones who are hunting the Gen 1's and being paid 2.5 million ISK each by the Amarr to kill them. I can't find a specific article where CCP confirms this. But there are plenty of threads, articles, and lore (news, books, etc) that all hint / support us not being Gen 1 because we would be insane and hunted by all of the Empires.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3144	Posted - 2014.06.04 16:12:00 - [154] - Quote Ug wheres that email with the trails law. All weekend testers where 1st gens who heeded mordus signal this is why the empires freaked out and launched a huge man hunt for a few 1000 thousands clones that vanished. Months later the empress came up with the clean version. And then heth went nuts and the rest is history. Theoricly anyone who starts in legion will be a 5th gen clone "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8740	Posted - 2014.06.04 17:43:00 - [155] - Quote lateriss wrote: calisk galern wrote: my main question about this is why in gods name is nobody making weapons for the legion users.... is their a fluff reason nobody in eve's industrial focused economy wants to make weapons for these planet battles. Crafting! I would craft weapons in Eve for the boots on the ground. But I would prefer to do it in Legion. In Eve Online, it's not called "crafting". It's called "manufacturing" because technically you're relying on factories to produce the goods. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Goro Scornshard DUST University Ivy League 105	Posted - 2014.06.04 21:07:00 - [156] - Quote Well, I think a new type of logi suit or a whole new industrial class should get bonuses for salvage and if the assault suit is getting two light slots doing away with commando suits another suggestion for a heavy suit is one that relies on drones, salvage drones perhaps being one type that could be used.
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5165	Posted - 2014.06.05 14:36:00 - [157] - Quote This was probably already mentioned, but could I follow around a player (or even a drone), wait for them to gather enough stuff, kill them, and take what they salvaged? Essentially would the stuff they salvage stick around in a truck by them to wait for an RDV, or would it be magically beamed up like a vehicle recall? I have a devious plan to plant some REs on some salvageable material, then detonating them on whoever tries digging through that. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.05 16:42:00 - [158] - Quote [Interaction] It would be fun if there was an animation while fighting a drone that they use their tentacles and throw the dust bunny across the terrain. My bad on the crafting term, just a industry generalization. /Salutes Eve Uni :) I have played Eve for 8 years and know better heh.
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.06 00:16:00 - [159] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Allow manufacturing. o-0-((~Hack a Salvage Drone and turn them on your enemies, then burn the enchanted forest down with it~))-0-o
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8752	Posted - 2014.06.06 00:50:00 - [160] - Quote lateris ablon wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Allow manufacturing. Manufacturing will require some time without a doubt. Every item will need a blueprint copy with a set limit of runs, type of materials needed and what quantities for every unique item, material efficiency and time efficiency level, etc. It's a long list to do and that's just on what we already have in Dust which is not including the many things still missing. But remember that this is all for Eve players who already have an established system of manufacturing. This means they will need Legionaries to provide the materials which means we will have to harvest those materials which also means salvaging will NOT be the only source to rely on (looks at the PC districts). On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3159	Posted - 2014.06.06 12:36:00 - [161] - Quote Tbh you need a seeded market before you allow a free for market, in EvE online market was years in the making, salvage is our version of mining, i imagen next step will be modifications (or scarping and making new guns) and last bit will then be moving the goods around. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 537	Posted - 2014.06.06 18:39:00 - [162] - Quote I agree with the necessity of a NPC seeded market at first until the player one can actually supply the demand. However, the logisticis and transportation is essential, i should be able to kill and steal someone before he can safely get to wherever he-¦s going. Silkroad is a good example of this: They have 2 classes (Hunter - Thief ) and you go merry on your way moving things from one town to the other (the further the town is, the more they pay you for your items), it takes soemthign like 20 - 30 min for the closest town, and on the way you can be ambushed bu thiefs and protected by Hunters. A successful trip pays you a looooot of money and you can make a living out of it, but you have to choose: Big profits for going alone or paying someone to protect your stuff on the way and split the rewards, It would be an interesting way of setting up a logistical operation and getting people used to sell stuff, so that alter they could remove the npc seeding and leave only player ones.
Vance Alken Commando Perkone Caldari State 166	Posted - 2014.06.09 01:20:00 - [163] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Scarcity of personal resources available to any player deploying is something that weGÇÖre interested in exploring i.e. limited gear, limited clones so that death counts. Garth brought up the idea of loot extraction. This is also a concept we like. You donGÇÖt just get loot, you need to GÇÿbank GÇÿ it in some way once itGÇÖs in your possession. This opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for emergent play :-) It'd be nice if the only way to bank/save anything was to get it off-planet first. If there's an inventory system (how else would looting work?) I'd hope that you can store loot in vehicles as well. Call in an RDV, anything close to where it lands will be picked up. Friendly marked players (and 'their' loot) could hitch a ride as well as you. Or, if you have too much for an RDV to handle and don't want to risk multiple landings right in the same area, you could just drive back to a spaceport (or perhaps a corp/alliance owned transfer site in the far future) in-district. It'd also be nice if there was some way to store loot in the same vehicle (or even on the same person if different suits have different storage capabilities) but have the loot itself be 'owned' by different players, it's all going back to the same space station, so why not have some sort of futuristic sounding RFID equivalent tagging system that automatically triggers when you pick up fresh loot? Of course, it could be triggered manually to override someone else's claim...

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2988	Posted - 2014.06.09 02:14:00 - [164] - Quote Ok, a few more quick responses to questions IGÇÖve seen popping up. Is all salvage items? I saw someone mentioned the desire to GÇ£loot garbageGÇ¥ and some of the salvage is indeed GÇÿjunkGÇÖ. These are items or parts of items too damaged to be used but still of some value. The quality of junk varies and can be sold for ISK. Drone aggression Drones arenGÇÖt planned to be immediately aggressive. Their reaction to you will depend on your actions. For example, if you are doing a lot of scanning for salvage they will become more GÇÿinterestedGÇÖ in you and will attack. If you kill drones they will become very interested in you We intend to have a cooldown on this so it is possible to get back in their good books. EVE players and drones IGÇÖve seen a few comments asking whether or not EVE players will be allowed to deploy drones to salvage themselves. This is a pretty cool idea although it seems like a shame to not create a player to player relationship between EVE pilots and mercs on the ground. Still interesting possibilities there for the future. Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Manufacturing LotGÇÖs of questions about this. I wouldnGÇÖt rule it out for future development but at the moment we are focusing on getting the core gameplay up and running. One of the nice things about the more free form nature of Salvage gameplay is that it provides a good foundation to build on and develop different experiences and connections between players.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 869	Posted - 2014.06.09 03:24:00 - [165] - Quote Wolfman, your post has brought up an idea (based on the 'can Eve players deploy drones to salvage' plus 'how to bank salvage') Eve players may have a role to play in easing the logistical problems with hauling salvage somehow? Like, but deploying tractor drones that are the size of a dropship, to hoover up stockpiles of salvage and bring it up to space? Or otherwise provide a level of automation to avoid the grind of parking a bunch of salvage in an APC and driving back to the pickup spot? Note that there's a power discrepancy between Eve players and legionnaires, so it shouldn't be possible to just fly by and vacuum up twenty player's stockpiles of salvage then fly off without a care. Dust/Eve transfers
Oceltot Mortalis The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 2	Posted - 2014.06.09 04:34:00 - [166] - Quote Salvage optimizers? Equipment like a repair tool to pull better/more loot from salvage. Role bonus of the logistics dropsuit. Encourages working as a group/pair. Maybe even a super expensive logistics vehicle that does the same and also stores it? It would make the pilot drop suit able to be implemented... Just saying :) Also, I would love to see underground caverns! Just think about the implementation! Only in low/null sec, only one way in or out, so you will probably get camped as you come out, but the loot is SUPER awesome, so you leave a contingency to guard the entrance, but they double cross you anyways, and you vow endless vengeance on them and their corporation! Have to scan for them like eve pilots scan for wormholes. WHOA EXPLORATION METAGAME!!!!!!! You're welcome.
Oceltot Mortalis 2	Posted - 2014.06.09 05:26:00 - [167] - Quote Also, I don't think EVE pilots should be able to aide in salvaging. Killing, logistics (spawn location, ammo drop, installation drops), and socializing, sure. But you spoil the fun of being out on the frontier, the exploration of the unknown, "will we make it back with this sweet loot?" If it's not challenging, it's not rewarding. If you MUST let them help, make sure it's only more convenient for a solo merc or something like that. Otherwise, you ruin the backstabbing gameplay. In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2989	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:07:00 - [168] - Quote We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5996	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:27:00 - [169] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. Maybe implement a skill/upgrade to reduce the player being perceived as a threat to the drones? That'd be interesting. Honestly I think having friendly fire turned off and more junk-loot in High Sec is a great incentive to want to expand from there. For Low-Sec you could probably turn on Friendly Fire at a 50% value, which would be quite forgiving for accidents and still allow someone seriously dedicated to killing you the ability to do so. I'm on the fence about that because if I have the ability to kill another player and steal his stuff, I want to have the full capability in doing that. Can't really think of any other controls I'd want to see placed on the gameplay as it would restrict that sort of emergent gameplay from happening. I'm of the volition that, unless it becomes a problem, allow it. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2989	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:43:00 - [170] - Quote A drone trolling module, that is a cool idea. I'm not sure about damage reductions either, it is possible to do now but it makes weapons feel weak and can make firefights a bit long and comical :-) If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking...


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 869	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:34:00 - [171] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking... coughdayzcough Frankly, there needs to be some sort of game mechanic like gate guns for Legion, or else there will be people camping the CRUs and spawn spots everywhere in low sec (orbital sentry drones?). You need to pressure people to move away from prime spawn-camping spots or it will be bad. Having said that, an effective anti-spawn-camping mechanic with persistent memory (i.e. personal security status) is probably all that's needed for low sec, especially with a judicious banning of certain weapons or equipment from high sec. tldr; I would totally play full friendly-fire low sec open world Legion. Dust/Eve transfers
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11044	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:48:00 - [172] - Quote I would like a piece of equipment that allows me to temporarily hack a hostile drone and make it kill other drones for me. It could be a valuable distraction or defense. The duration of the drone control should vary based on tier. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5999	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:02:00 - [173] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: A drone trolling module, that is a cool idea. I'm not sure about damage reductions either, it is possible to do now but it makes weapons feel weak and can make firefights a bit long and comical :-) If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking... To expand on what the last guy said, those types of games are very very niche and personally I don't find them fun at all, but there's a lot to learn from them. Day Z, Rust, Infestation, they all have the same sort of general feel where it becomes more Kill On Sight and less working together because there's generally no reason to when you want all the loot to yourself. But there's an inherent problem... Throwing up some defenses around CRUs would be a decent enough solution, but it'd probably just borrow from the same problem every survival game has in that it just makes these exclusive little zones that players -KNOW- there will be activity at, creating sort of camping grounds. What -I- would do is get some friends together, send three-five people to go gather loot and another three-five people to just camp the CRU-area to prevent anyone from leaving. That being said - and before I go on, I just want to say I've never played the game, was just told about it - Nether apparently has this concept where the more player-killing you do, the more attention you attract from the Nethers (funny as that sounds, lol!!!) which I think would be a decent enough fail-safe. The more player-killing you do, the more attention you get from the Drones as a threat. Something I was mentioning earlier but, your call. Just spit-balling here. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2992	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:47:00 - [174] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: A drone trolling module, that is a cool idea. I'm not sure about damage reductions either, it is possible to do now but it makes weapons feel weak and can make firefights a bit long and comical :-) If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking... To expand on what the last guy said, those types of games are very very niche and personally I don't find them fun at all, but there's a lot to learn from them. Day Z, Rust, Infestation, they all have the same sort of general feel where it becomes more Kill On Sight and less working together because there's generally no reason to when you want all the loot to yourself. But there's an inherent problem... Throwing up some defenses around CRUs would be a decent enough solution, but it'd probably just borrow from the same problem every survival game has in that it just makes these exclusive little zones that players -KNOW- there will be activity at, creating sort of camping grounds. What -I- would do is get some friends together, send three-five people to go gather loot and another three-five people to just camp the CRU-area to prevent anyone from leaving. That being said - and before I go on, I just want to say I've never played the game, was just told about it - Nether apparently has this concept where the more player-killing you do, the more attention you attract from the Nethers (funny as that sounds, lol!!!) which I think would be a decent enough fail-safe. The more player-killing you do, the more attention you get from the Drones as a threat. Something I was mentioning earlier but, your call. Just spit-balling here. It would be possible for us to make player kills a factor in the drones interest in you. Not sure why they would care but they could...


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 2992	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:54:00 - [175] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I would like a piece of equipment that allows me to temporarily hack a hostile drone and make it kill other drones for me. It could be a valuable distraction or defense. The duration of the drone control should vary based on tier. it's technically possible since we can already have drones that are "on your team". However we'll have to accurately determine how many total drones and players we can handle at any one time before looking at features like this. It would be pretty sweet though, I've always wanted a pet drone

Oceltot Mortalis 2	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:30:00 - [176] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. I believe that High sec should allow FF, and that the security status should apply to loot and killing. let me explain. Let's say you have a noob in high-sec that just found an officer weapon, Thale's to be specific, and he's headed back to base to bank it so he can camp like a pro during whatever PvP legion has to offer in the sandbox. But wait, here comes "le pirate/opportunist" who happens to see him pick it up, or just scans him to see what loot he has, and decides he wants the camping boomstick. Pirate runs up with cloak activated, shotguns the noob in the back and there is the Thales on the ground waiting to be picked up, but not like it did for the noob. It's yellow and flashy. This just became a stolen item with a beacon on it to let all mercs in the area know where to find the person that picks it up. This beacon has a few properties to go along with it. 1. No operation or riding in a vehicle, as they are hooked up to the planetary police system via WiFi. 2. Everyone in a 10k radius knows exactly where to find you (dropsuit WiFi) 3. Should you happen to see a concord installation, CONCORDOKKEN!!!! (You get blapped) 4. These space beacons have a fickle battery life and are removed after 15 minutes. 5. Whoever kills the individual with the blinky loot, gets a bounty from concord and the loot is returned to the rightful owner upon turning in the bounty to concord. However, this is all in highsec. There are different ways to make this more suitable for low sec: timer reduction, radius reduction, bounty increase, beacon no longer denies vehicle use, and beacons will only drop on loot when within a certain proximity to an installation/base (within WiFi range) And complete removal of the system for null sec is preferred. Also, the implementation of this system could be built around the entire idea of WiFi, in that High Sec has installations everywhere, therefore beacons always drop. Low sec has choke points in between but out of range of the installations so you can get away with it if you are careful. Null sec has one installation, everything around it is fair game. In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 116	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:38:00 - [177] - Quote My concerns are concentrated here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2150320 , see Missions section <[^_^]>
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3161	Posted - 2014.06.09 12:30:00 - [178] - Quote Junk loot and common loot in high sec was gate guns and FF on. I nice safe way to skill and grind up for low sec Which is more junk loot + mid and rare level loot? Gate guns work but FF is off so high tail it if a gang shows up. Null sec/ huge pay days but a free for all you need friends just to get out the spawn area :-P "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6003	Posted - 2014.06.09 12:40:00 - [179] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: A drone trolling module, that is a cool idea. I'm not sure about damage reductions either, it is possible to do now but it makes weapons feel weak and can make firefights a bit long and comical :-) If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking... To expand on what the last guy said, those types of games are very very niche and personally I don't find them fun at all, but there's a lot to learn from them. Day Z, Rust, Infestation, they all have the same sort of general feel where it becomes more Kill On Sight and less working together because there's generally no reason to when you want all the loot to yourself. But there's an inherent problem... Throwing up some defenses around CRUs would be a decent enough solution, but it'd probably just borrow from the same problem every survival game has in that it just makes these exclusive little zones that players -KNOW- there will be activity at, creating sort of camping grounds. What -I- would do is get some friends together, send three-five people to go gather loot and another three-five people to just camp the CRU-area to prevent anyone from leaving. That being said - and before I go on, I just want to say I've never played the game, was just told about it - Nether apparently has this concept where the more player-killing you do, the more attention you attract from the Nethers (funny as that sounds, lol!!!) which I think would be a decent enough fail-safe. The more player-killing you do, the more attention you get from the Drones as a threat. Something I was mentioning earlier but, your call. Just spit-balling here. It would be possible for us to make player kills a factor in the drones interest in you. Not sure why they would care but they could... Rogue/Wild Drones in the lore will go out of their way to attack unsuspecting mining vessels, despite usually posing little to no threat at all. That being said, if some dude runs into a salvage field with a bunch of rogue drones, firing his weapon like a maniac, I'd imagine the rogue drones would perceive a potential threat regardless of what he's aiming at. They're also privy to attacking Capsuleers on the fly, as well. "Code Aria Inquiry shows strong evidence of Rogue Drones abducting Capsuleer pilots, by hacking into the ships computer and overriding pilot commands to the ship, how wide spread this phenomenon is at this time is unknown." Rogue Drones are pretty finicky and are pretty unreliable as to what they're going to do at any given time. The broken ones are particular savage as well. Here's an exerpt if you don't feel like reading the whole Chronicle: "It tests the other senses. It can detect the gaseous traces coming from the other room. Good. Zoom and unzoom works as well; it can count the ridges in a pen that's lying on the floor. It can sense audio waves as well. It picks up one now. Coming from a nearby cupboard. The drone turns and slowly flies in the direction of that cupboard. The sound from the other side is quiet, very quiet. It's someone breathing, in a staccato rhythm. Gently, the drone nudges open the cupboard door. Inside, it sees a young woman, dressed in a lab coat. The woman's eyes are red-rimmed, and she's mouthing silent words. The drone hums with something resembling pleasure. It revolves silently in the air so that its head faces downwards. Its feelers shoot out like pythons and fasten the woman to the wall by her head and shoulders. Two pairs of feelers clamp on to her jaw and pry it open. The drone has been trying to fix itself, trying to re-make itself into an undamaged creature. But it has been running out of hosts. Now it has found one. And her face is open to let it in, to let it be born again." Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 870	Posted - 2014.06.09 14:17:00 - [180] - Quote I have previously made the case for always-on friendly fire here. I'm not suggesting there be no consequences for friendly fire in high-sec areas, or the absence of weapon safeties to prevent accidents, but I believe there is a case to be made. Dust/Eve transfers

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8758	Posted - 2014.06.09 14:18:00 - [181] - Quote Introducing junk salvage is a great first step to one day implement manufacturing. Eve Online already uses junk salvage to manufacture rigs for starships. However acquiring the broken complements takes quite a lot of effort in high sec space. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.06.09 16:41:00 - [182] - Quote Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped a vehicle we call in?? o-0-((~Hack a Salvage Drone and turn them on your enemies, then burn the enchanted forest down with it~))-0-o
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 818	Posted - 2014.06.09 18:27:00 - [183] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I would like a piece of equipment that allows me to temporarily hack a hostile drone and make it kill other drones for me. It could be a valuable distraction or defense. The duration of the drone control should vary based on tier. it's technically possible since we can already have drones that are "on your team". However we'll have to accurately determine how many total drones and players we can handle at any one time before looking at features like this. It would be pretty sweet though, I've always wanted a pet drone Having a 'pet' droid that you can command / follows you around the battle would be insanely awesome! Combat droid - highest dps, no support capability. Strongest shields / armour Medic droid - minimal dps, primary focus = healing / repairing - limited ammo reserves. Reasonable shields / armour Supply droid - also minimal dps, primary focus = resupplying ammo - limited healing. Reasonable shields / armour.
Severus Smith Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.06.10 00:07:00 - [184] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. Implement an IFF Fire Control module. Basically a module that is equipped in all suits that prevents you from firing on friendly, or neutral, enemies. - This module is required in all High Security systems. Thus no friendly fire. - This module can be removed in Low Security systems. So if you want to go gank / pirate / be an a**hat you have to somehow remove the IFF module (Supply Depot, or redeploy, or something). Without the IFF you show up as an enemy to all around you but are also capable of firing on anyone. - This module is useless in Null Security systems. Friendly fire is always on and you can shoot at anyone. What this does is help preserve trust and decrease ganking. Because people will get PISSED if they just suddenly get lit up by their "teammates" and soon salvaging will only be a single person activity because no one can trust anyone.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 870	Posted - 2014.06.10 03:41:00 - [185] - Quote According to this article: Quote: The most obvious difference with Legion is it looks better than Dust already. It uses all the PC graphical bells and whistles and revels in it - although it did have a running start. Being on PC means freedom, too - freedom to chop and change the game without involving Sony. And it means CCP can aim for Legion to have a slightly different tone - a tone closer to Eve Online's. "Eve Online is all about betrayal," Gaudechon told me. The best bits of Eve Online happen when you ditch high-security, AI-policed space for the open waters of null-sec (no security) space. Legion will adopt the same approach. "As you venture deeper into space, there's basically no one to save your ass, to a certain extent," Gaudechon said. "In more secure space it's more like a social space; CONCORD [the policing body - Consolidated Cooperation and Relations Command] is there, there's no friendly fire - and if you do you'll get squished by the CONCORD foot. "As you venture deeper into space, there's basically no one to save your ass" Jean-Charles Gaudechon scene The skies and views are lovely. Watching while cloaked. "As you go lower and CONCORD is not there any more, and friendly fire is turned on, you can imagine how that can go! And that probably will even become the most interesting PVP in the game." You choose where in space you want to go from your apartment, your quarters, "your hub for the galaxy". You access the star map - a staple of Eve's - and choose battles or tournaments or, the new thing, Scavenging Grounds. These are the first iteration of the sandbox areas Gaudechon hopes will stand Legion apart, mixing PVE and PVP and offering people a place "to come and fight for loot". "And as you get deeper into space to fight for loot, the line between friend and foe will become very blurry," he said, "so watch your back down there." That loot you'll find on downed AI drone enemies and, incidentally, other players. "That's the idea," Gaudechon nodded. "You can get the stuff out of people by killing them." Dust/Eve transfers
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2560	Posted - 2014.06.10 06:44:00 - [186] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: However acquiring the broken components takes quite a lot of effort in high sec space. mission running isn't hard at all............ click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2560	Posted - 2014.06.10 06:48:00 - [187] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. Implement an IFF Fire Control module. Basically a module that is equipped in all suits that prevents you from firing on friendly, or neutral, enemies. - This module is required in all High Security systems. Thus no friendly fire. - This module can be removed in Low Security systems. So if you want to go gank / pirate / be an a**hat you have to somehow remove the IFF module (Supply Depot, or redeploy, or something). Without the IFF you show up as an enemy to all around you but are also capable of firing on anyone. - This module is useless in Null Security systems. Friendly fire is always on and you can shoot at anyone. What this does is help preserve trust and decrease ganking. Because people will get PISSED if they just suddenly get lit up by their "teammates" and soon salvaging will only be a single person activity because no one can trust anyone. CONCORD exists. no. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3016	Posted - 2014.06.10 08:48:00 - [188] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. Implement an IFF Fire Control module. Basically a module that is equipped in all suits that prevents you from firing on friendly, or neutral, enemies. - This module is required in all High Security systems. Thus no friendly fire. - This module can be removed in Low Security systems. So if you want to go gank / pirate / be an a**hat you have to somehow remove the IFF module (Supply Depot, or redeploy, or something). Without the IFF you show up as an enemy to all around you but are also capable of firing on anyone. - This module is useless in Null Security systems. Friendly fire is always on and you can shoot at anyone. What this does is help preserve trust and decrease ganking. Because people will get PISSED if they just suddenly get lit up by their "teammates" and soon salvaging will only be a single person activity because no one can trust anyone. This is quite interesting. Will give it some thought.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3016	Posted - 2014.06.10 08:52:00 - [189] - Quote lateris ablon wrote: Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic? You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2014.06.10 09:29:00 - [190] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: lateris ablon wrote: Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic? You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm. Just out of curiosity, could you explain the thoughts behind the functional mechanic of this "Harvester", since it seems to be a handheld object? How does it store all the salvage? Does it create a small wormhole that teleport it to our quaters across the galaxy? Or miniaturisation? Why do we have to return it to a Drop-off point? Does it have limited "space"? It is much easier for me to understand if I see the full picture, even if it is not complete yet

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 870	Posted - 2014.06.10 10:09:00 - [191] - Quote Maybe its a suitcase with hundreds of little legs under it... Dust/Eve transfers
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1356	Posted - 2014.06.10 11:20:00 - [192] - Quote How about making this "harvester" a proper companion with its own part of the skill tree and fitting screen that can do more than just salvaging, such as resupplies, repairs or even fire support/point defence etc. And entire sub-mechanic for the sandbox part of the game? It's basically a suitcase-sized flying drone that you launch and can alternate between "assist" and "salvage" modes. Salvage will have it wander around, looting stuff autonomously but dependant on your protection. Assist makes it help you and squadmates with whatever you're doing, based on the capabilities you chose to fit it with based on the situation. It would, for example, activate an integrated nanohive if someone is on low ammo, initiate repairs for a damaged friendlies or even fire at enemies, provided it has the according mods fitted of course. You might also want it to listen to comm-wheel or hotkey orders for when more precision is needed. Simply point somewhere or at someone and select between basic "go there, attack/salvage, use function 1/2/3" to have it execute the corresponding action. Now, I said earlier that you "launch" or deploy it. That is because you can also get it back so you don't risk losing it in combat including whatever loot it happens to carry. This would give interesting pvp/pve interactions where one has to decide whether to have it out in combat for the additional support but risk getting it destroyed or pull the harvester back in order to protect it but miss out no its benefits. I imagine three base types of harvesters per race: The Guardian Low salvage efficiency (efficiency refers to the maximum difficulty of loot containers it can crack without getting mostly junk) Average salvage speed High offensive/ Average defensive capabilties Average mobility/ range (range is the maximum distance to you it can reach) Additional Utility slots and bonus to turret efficiency (analoguous to equipment slots on infantry) The Guardian trades salvaging proficiency for improved Combat and support capabilities. Has inherent bonus to damage output and can efficiently support others in combat through logistics. The Harvester High salvage efficiency High salvage speed Low offence/High defence Low mobility/range Additional cargohold capacity and bonus to loot quality Nomen est omen. The Harvester is the optimal choice for safer areas and players that are ready to baby-sit this slow guy for higher potential profits as its improved looting mechanism has a higher chance of retrieving items without damaging them in the process. The Probe Average efficiency Average salvage speed Average offence/low defence High mobility/range Relays scan results to friendlies, bonus to survey modules The Probe can be sent along great distances to scout ahead hostile territory for potential salvaging opportunities and enemies in relative safety. It also sports inherent bonuses that assist other drones in their salvaging by finding harder to detect spots. And because this wouldn't be New Eden without some low-sec counterplay dickishness I further propose the Drone Signal Inhibitor. Once deployed, it prevents drones in an area from being launched, taking commands and being recalled so they can be easily scooped by the aspiring criminal. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6030	Posted - 2014.06.10 16:29:00 - [193] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: lateris ablon wrote: Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic? You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm. Not really to beat up about how it looks myself. My only concern is that it's it should look as Sci-Fi as you can muster, game definitely needs more sci-fi :3 Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8760	Posted - 2014.06.10 18:06:00 - [194] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: lateris ablon wrote: Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic? You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm. Honestly I wouldn't want it to be too compact. I don't want a piece of salvage the size of a Forge Gun to fit in a suitcase. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Severus Smith Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:54:00 - [195] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: lateris ablon wrote: Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic? You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm. It sounds as if you're already set on a handheld item for harvesting so I doubt this will deter you. But that just doesn't sound fun for an FPS. If I log in to play an FPS I want to shoot at people, or defend something. Not walk around harvesting. Plus it will really suck for the poor soul who is stuck carrying the harvester when everyone is attacked. No one will want that job and it basically leaves one person not having much (if any) fun. How I would do it (if I were in your shoes) would be for players to find a lucrative salvage site and call in a Salvager. Something big that looks like this. It should have some small turrets to help defend itself but mainly it is covered in salvage beams and mining lasers. Once it lands it gets to work clearing the area. The player's job is to defend it from drones / enemy players while it salvages. Once it finishes salvaging, it takes off again with all your loot. Salvage mission complete. What this does: 1. It looks much more awesome. Who doesn't love giant machines with lasers? Plus it spurs PvP when people see a large Salvager descend and land far off in the distance. 2. It is much more fun for all involved. No one needs to pull the short straw and shoot at the ground for X minutes while everyone else gets to fight drones. 3. It makes more sense. Why would immortal mercenaries carry mining equipment instead of weapons? We were cloned specifically for our combat abilities. Why not hire out to others / use drones (like Pod Pilots do) to handle all the tedious industry work? 4. Defend the objective is a well known FPS game style. So it will be much easier for players to pick up on it. And again, much more fun for all involved. Again, I doubt you will change your path now. But if you do I think objective defense of a large Salvager is much more fun and exciting than Oddball "kill whoever is currently holding the Harvester!" That's more for lobby FPS games...
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2570	Posted - 2014.06.10 23:04:00 - [196] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: How about making this "harvester" a proper companion with its own part of the skill tree and fitting screen that can do more than just salvaging, such as resupplies, repairs or even fire support/point defence etc. And entire sub-mechanic for the sandbox part of the game? It's basically a suitcase-sized flying drone that you launch and can alternate between "assist" and "salvage" modes. Salvage will have it wander around, looting stuff autonomously but dependant on your protection. Assist makes it help you and squadmates with whatever you're doing, based on the capabilities you chose to fit it with based on the situation. It would, for example, activate an integrated nanohive if someone is on low ammo, initiate repairs for a damaged friendlies or even fire at enemies, provided it has the according mods fitted of course. You might also want it to listen to comm-wheel or hotkey orders for when more precision is needed. Simply point somewhere or at someone and select between basic "go there, attack/salvage, use function 1/2/3" to have it execute the corresponding action. Now, I said earlier that you "launch" or deploy it. That is because you can also get it back so you don't risk losing it in combat including whatever loot it happens to carry. This would give interesting pvp/pve interactions where one has to decide whether to have it out in combat for the additional support but risk getting it destroyed or pull the harvester back in order to protect it but miss out no its benefits. I imagine three base types of harvesters per race: The Guardian Low salvage efficiency (efficiency refers to the maximum difficulty of loot containers it can crack without getting mostly junk) Average salvage speed High offensive/ Average defensive capabilties Average mobility/ range (range is the maximum distance to you it can reach) Additional Utility slots and bonus to turret efficiency (analoguous to equipment slots on infantry) The Guardian trades salvaging proficiency for improved Combat and support capabilities. Has inherent bonus to damage output and can efficiently support others in combat through logistics. The Harvester High salvage efficiency High salvage speed Low offence/High defence Low mobility/range Additional cargohold capacity and bonus to loot quality Nomen est omen. The Harvester is the optimal choice for safer areas and players that are ready to baby-sit this slow guy for higher potential profits as its improved looting mechanism has a higher chance of retrieving items without damaging them in the process. The Probe Average efficiency Average salvage speed Average offence/low defence High mobility/range Relays scan results to friendlies, bonus to survey modules The Probe can be sent along great distances to scout ahead hostile territory for potential salvaging opportunities and enemies in relative safety. It also sports inherent bonuses that assist other drones in their salvaging by finding harder to detect spots. And because this wouldn't be New Eden without some low-sec counterplay dickishness I further propose the Drone Signal Inhibitor. Once deployed, it prevents drones in an area from being launched, taking commands and being recalled so they can be easily scooped by the aspiring criminal. So a salvage drone with guns on it? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2570	Posted - 2014.06.10 23:04:00 - [197] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: How about making this "harvester" a proper companion with its own part of the skill tree and fitting screen that can do more than just salvaging, such as resupplies, repairs or even fire support/point defence etc. And entire sub-mechanic for the sandbox part of the game? It's basically a suitcase-sized flying drone that you launch and can alternate between "assist" and "salvage" modes. Salvage will have it wander around, looting stuff autonomously but dependant on your protection. Assist makes it help you and squadmates with whatever you're doing, based on the capabilities you chose to fit it with based on the situation. It would, for example, activate an integrated nanohive if someone is on low ammo, initiate repairs for a damaged friendlies or even fire at enemies, provided it has the according mods fitted of course. You might also want it to listen to comm-wheel or hotkey orders for when more precision is needed. Simply point somewhere or at someone and select between basic "go there, attack/salvage, use function 1/2/3" to have it execute the corresponding action. Now, I said earlier that you "launch" or deploy it. That is because you can also get it back so you don't risk losing it in combat including whatever loot it happens to carry. This would give interesting pvp/pve interactions where one has to decide whether to have it out in combat for the additional support but risk getting it destroyed or pull the harvester back in order to protect it but miss out no its benefits. I imagine three base types of harvesters per race: The Guardian Low salvage efficiency (efficiency refers to the maximum difficulty of loot containers it can crack without getting mostly junk) Average salvage speed High offensive/ Average defensive capabilties Average mobility/ range (range is the maximum distance to you it can reach) Additional Utility slots and bonus to turret efficiency (analoguous to equipment slots on infantry) The Guardian trades salvaging proficiency for improved Combat and support capabilities. Has inherent bonus to damage output and can efficiently support others in combat through logistics. The Harvester High salvage efficiency High salvage speed Low offence/High defence Low mobility/range Additional cargohold capacity and bonus to loot quality Nomen est omen. The Harvester is the optimal choice for safer areas and players that are ready to baby-sit this slow guy for higher potential profits as its improved looting mechanism has a higher chance of retrieving items without damaging them in the process. The Probe Average efficiency Average salvage speed Average offence/low defence High mobility/range Relays scan results to friendlies, bonus to survey modules The Probe can be sent along great distances to scout ahead hostile territory for potential salvaging opportunities and enemies in relative safety. It also sports inherent bonuses that assist other drones in their salvaging by finding harder to detect spots. And because this wouldn't be New Eden without some low-sec counterplay dickishness I further propose the Drone Signal Inhibitor. Once deployed, it prevents drones in an area from being launched, taking commands and being recalled so they can be easily scooped by the aspiring criminal. So a salvage drone with guns on it? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1357	Posted - 2014.06.11 00:14:00 - [198] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: So a salvage drone with guns on it? A tad more involved but yeah. Not yet sure if guns should be a general thing or part of a role defining trait. I want the salvage thing to something unique to all other FPS. We have seen enough "press and hold E to receive loot" and "guard/capture this illogically defenceless tactical asset" imho. Having these drones would add another layer of tactics to combat in that even a solo player is not necessarily "alone". I'd like them to be something you learn to use efficiently in assisting you with tasks that might otherwise turn stale after a while and become sort of an extended arm of yourself. Maybe even as central a part of your fit and target of emotional attachment as your suit itself. As a side note, I image these three types being per race so that there's a variety of different harvesters for different situations/ play styles. I also consider splitting the current "guardian" into two clearly offensive and defensive types as they're awfully close to being "general purpose". You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3020	Posted - 2014.06.11 02:24:00 - [199] - Quote @ Severus Smith I think you misunderstand, weGÇÖre not thinking of it as a handheld piece of equipment but as a deployable one. Once deployed it would start to harvest the loot (storing it using a quantum hammer space engine). After that you probably want to keep an eye on it in case another player (or a drone comes and takes it away). It is possible to pick it up and carry it whilst using your weapon so it doesnGÇÖt get in the way of shooting. What it does do is provide you with a pretty strong motivation not to die and lose everything you just salvaged from that high quality site you just found on your way to bank it. IGÇÖm not really a fan of getting salvage and instantly banking it. I think there is a lot of gameplay to be had in the space between gaining possession of salvage and actually getting permanent ownership of it. I believe this to be key. One of the reasons weGÇÖre looking at smaller harvesters rather than giant robot harvesters is because it allows you to salvage in more interesting and varied locations i.e. a giant robot canGÇÖt get inside an interior space. I think it would be a shame not to be able to salvage in outpost interiors for example. Not to say giant robots arenGÇÖt cool, perhaps we could introduce deployable mining robots for a total different type of gameplay over time. Also you donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to. You could roam around killing others and taking their salvage. You could be fighting domination battles, earning ISK and purchasing gear from people who have been salvaging. ThereGÇÖs more than one way to play.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3020	Posted - 2014.06.11 02:38:00 - [200] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: So a salvage drone with guns on it? A tad more involved but yeah. Not yet sure if guns should be a general thing or part of a role defining trait. I want the salvage thing to be something unique to all other FPS. We have seen enough "press and hold E to receive loot" and "guard/capture this illogically defenceless tactical asset" imho. Having these drones would add another layer of tactics to combat in that even a solo player is not necessarily "alone". I'd like them to be something you learn to use efficiently in assisting you with tasks that might otherwise turn stale after a while and become sort of an extended arm of yourself so you focus on your surroundings rather than the tedium of the looting process itself. Maybe even as central a part of your fit and target of emotional attachment as your suit itself. As a side note, I image these three types being per race so that there's a variety of different harvesters for different situations/ play styles. I also consider splitting the current "guardian" into two clearly offensive and defensive types as it's awfully close to being "general purpose". I like the risk/reward of it helping you in combat. Something that we have to take in to account though is max player/drone count. At this stage we're not sure how many of either we can support at once. Every drone a player has is one less drone the Hive Mind has to deploy. Depending on how the max count ends up that could hurt. Still a cool idea though


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 870	Posted - 2014.06.11 03:05:00 - [201] - Quote This reminds me of the concept of Rigger drones in Shadowrun :) I like this. Dust/Eve transfers
xp3ll3d dust The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 152	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:48:00 - [202] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I like the risk/reward of it helping you in combat. Something that we have to take in to account though is max player/drone count. At this stage we're not sure how many of either we can support at once. Every drone a player has is one less drone the Hive Mind has to deploy. Depending on how the max count ends up that could hurt. Still a cool idea though I like the way that Titanfall used Windows Azure cloud computing to offload this processing. They were able to have games with NPC AI Marines running around supporting players. You can think of them as Drones in the Legion world CPM1 Candidate > A richer Dust app ecosystem means more player engagement!
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2014.06.11 04:59:00 - [203] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith I think you misunderstand, weGÇÖre not thinking of it as a handheld piece of equipment but as a deployable one. Once deployed it would start to harvest the loot (storing it using a quantum hammer space engine). After that you probably want to keep an eye on it in case another player (or a drone comes and takes it away). It is possible to pick it up and carry it whilst using your weapon so it doesnGÇÖt get in the way of shooting. What it does do is provide you with a pretty strong motivation not to die and lose everything you just salvaged from that high quality site you just found on your way to bank it. IGÇÖm not really a fan of getting salvage and instantly banking it. I think there is a lot of gameplay to be had in the space between gaining possession of salvage and actually getting permanent ownership of it. I believe this to be key. One of the reasons weGÇÖre looking at smaller harvesters rather than giant robot harvesters is because it allows you to salvage in more interesting and varied locations i.e. a giant robot canGÇÖt get inside an interior space. I think it would be a shame not to be able to salvage in outpost interiors for example. Not to say giant robots arenGÇÖt cool, perhaps we could introduce deployable mining robots for a total different type of gameplay over time. Also you donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to. You could roam around killing others and taking their salvage. You could be fighting domination battles, earning ISK and purchasing gear from people who have been salvaging. ThereGÇÖs more than one way to play. +1 Great post! I giggled at the "quantum hammer space engine" Does not matter if if was serious or not, it's bloody brilliant!
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2572	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:04:00 - [204] - Quote @Wolfman: Let me get this straight before I make my decision on this thing. Tell me if I got the gist of how you want this thing to sort of work- step 1: kill stuffz step 2: put your neat little harvester down step 3: guard it while it harvests stuffz in the vicinity step 4: pick it up and run If so, neat. Make it bigger and apply it to mining, and have vehicle versions that does it even better. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3027	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:12:00 - [205] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: @Wolfman: Let me get this straight before I make my decision on this thing. Tell me if I got the gist of how you want this thing to sort of work- step 1: kill stuffz step 2: put your neat little harvester down step 3: guard it while it harvests stuffz in the vicinity step 4: pick it up and run If so, neat. Make it bigger and apply it to mining, and have vehicle versions that does it even better. It's a pretty good description but there are a couple of things missing. You can try to avoid killing stuffz and you also have to find the salvage location before you can harvest using your scanner.

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2573	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:15:00 - [206] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: @Wolfman: Let me get this straight before I make my decision on this thing. Tell me if I got the gist of how you want this thing to sort of work- step 1: kill stuffz step 2: put your neat little harvester down step 3: guard it while it harvests stuffz in the vicinity step 4: pick it up and run If so, neat. Make it bigger and apply it to mining, and have vehicle versions that does it even better. It's a pretty good description but there are a couple of things missing. You can try to avoid killing stuffz and you also have to find the salvage location before you can harvest using your scanner. If you haven't killed anything, what are you salvaging? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1005	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:19:00 - [207] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: @Wolfman: Let me get this straight before I make my decision on this thing. Tell me if I got the gist of how you want this thing to sort of work- step 1: kill stuffz step 2: put your neat little harvester down step 3: guard it while it harvests stuffz in the vicinity step 4: pick it up and run If so, neat. Make it bigger and apply it to mining, and have vehicle versions that does it even better. It's a pretty good description but there are a couple of things missing. You can try to avoid killing stuffz and you also have to find the salvage location before you can harvest using your scanner. If you haven't killed anything, what are you salvaging? Other people killed things - you're salvaging a recent battlefield

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3029	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:21:00 - [208] - Quote Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 871	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:29:00 - [209] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. Does it have to be recent battles? I could see myself walking into a town and salvaging someone's car while they're buying stul from walmart. Dust/Eve transfers
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2574	Posted - 2014.06.11 08:40:00 - [210] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. Ah, so that's how they work. I see now. Well, As I've stated already, I don't really like the concept of legion being a lobby shooter, as it causes a lot of things to be limited (logistics of gear is basically eliminated). If you want to give structure to some playing, I say make arenas for them to play in. But say that you completely ignore all of the above and make it a pure lobby shooter (again), at least allow us to while the battle is going salvage the stuff, or after the match is done you get X amount of time to salvage stuff (or both). click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2014.06.11 09:57:00 - [211] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. Ah, so that's how they work. I see now. Well, As I've stated already, I don't really like the concept of legion being a lobby shooter, as it causes a lot of things to be limited (logistics of gear is basically eliminated). If you want to give structure to some playing, I say make arenas for them to play in. But say that you completely ignore all of the above and make it a pure lobby shooter (again), at least allow us to while the battle is going salvage the stuff, or after the match is done you get X amount of time to salvage stuff (or both). ?? How did you get "Lobby shooter" into this Godin? In my opinion this is as far away as it can be from a lobby shooter. Unless you think it is "our" battles Wolfman is referring to. I.e a battle HAVE to take place before the field is populated. I think he already stated that this is not the case, and this is seeded salvage from "imaginary" battles. (Can't find the post though)
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3163	Posted - 2014.06.11 10:07:00 - [212] - Quote Or the fact we have been fighting none stop for two years now the clean up is ginna take a while :-P just think of the ammomut mcc salavage is out their :-P "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6038	Posted - 2014.06.11 11:37:00 - [213] - Quote So is the Salvager going to be an Equipment item? If so it might be considered sort of a 'soft nerf' to suits with only one (or no) equipment slots. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.11 15:16:00 - [214] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith I think you misunderstand, weGÇÖre not thinking of it as a handheld piece of equipment but as a deployable one. Once deployed it would start to harvest the loot (storing it using a quantum hammer space engine). After that you probably want to keep an eye on it in case another player (or a drone comes and takes it away). It is possible to pick it up and carry it whilst using your weapon so it doesnGÇÖt get in the way of shooting. What it does do is provide you with a pretty strong motivation not to die and lose everything you just salvaged from that high quality site you just found on your way to bank it. IGÇÖm not really a fan of getting salvage and instantly banking it. I think there is a lot of gameplay to be had in the space between gaining possession of salvage and actually getting permanent ownership of it. I believe this to be key. One of the reasons weGÇÖre looking at smaller harvesters rather than giant robot harvesters is because it allows you to salvage in more interesting and varied locations i.e. a giant robot canGÇÖt get inside an interior space. I think it would be a shame not to be able to salvage in outpost interiors for example. Not to say giant robots arenGÇÖt cool, perhaps we could introduce deployable mining robots for a total different type of gameplay over time. Also you donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to. You could roam around killing others and taking their salvage. You could be fighting domination battles, earning ISK and purchasing gear from people who have been salvaging. ThereGÇÖs more than one way to play. Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 539	Posted - 2014.06.11 15:58:00 - [215] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free. Dude, processing power. Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount. One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE. Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1359	Posted - 2014.06.11 16:36:00 - [216] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free. Dude, processing power. Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount. One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE. Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here. CCP Wolfman already said himself that this might be an issue, not that it has to be. Also in eve we're talking about a thousand players having 5-10 drones each, not maybe a hundred with one drone each. Totally different scales. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:13:00 - [217] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free. Dude, processing power. Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount. One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE. Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here. If we were on the PS3 then yes, I agree. But we're not. We're on a PC. Titanfall does it with NPC minions. Planetside 2 does it with hundreds of players simultaneously. EVE Online has thousands of objects simultaneously. I do hope that Legion will not explode because a few players called in salvage drones.
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:14:00 - [218] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free. Dude, processing power. Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount. One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE. Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here. If we were on the PS3 then yes, I agree. But we're not. We're on a PC. Titanfall does it with NPC minions. Planetside 2 does it with hundreds of players simultaneously. EVE Online has thousands of objects simultaneously. I do hope that Legion will not explode because a few players called in salvage drones.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2576	Posted - 2014.06.11 18:23:00 - [219] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. Ah, so that's how they work. I see now. Well, As I've stated already, I don't really like the concept of legion being a lobby shooter, as it causes a lot of things to be limited (logistics of gear is basically eliminated). If you want to give structure to some playing, I say make arenas for them to play in. But say that you completely ignore all of the above and make it a pure lobby shooter (again), at least allow us to while the battle is going salvage the stuff, or after the match is done you get X amount of time to salvage stuff (or both). ?? How did you get "Lobby shooter" into this Godin? In my opinion this is as far away as it can be from a lobby shooter. Unless you think it is "our" battles Wolfman is referring to. I.e a battle HAVE to take place before the field is populated. I think he already stated that this is not the case, and this is seeded salvage from "imaginary" battles. Edit: Found the link https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2185723#post2185723 CCP Wolfman wrote: The idea is that salvage is the result from the aftermath of the many battles fought on planets. This doesnGÇÖt preclude other themes being added in the future though. Maken Tosch asked if the locations could be tied to real battles. This is an idea we really like, might not make it in to the first iteration. So it's stuff that appeared out of nowhere that nobody actually killed? That's pretty lame. Also, last time I checked, those scavenger drones immediately comes onto the battlefield to reclaim that stuff, so why would it still be there? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1359	Posted - 2014.06.11 19:22:00 - [220] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: So it's stuff that appeared out of nowhere that nobody actually killed? That's pretty lame. Also, last time I checked, those scavenger drones immediately comes onto the battlefield to reclaim that stuff, so why would it still be there? A bunch of the EVE industry stuff started off as server seeded and was slowly switched to player interaction. I expect this to be possible here aswell. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2581	Posted - 2014.06.11 19:23:00 - [221] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: So it's stuff that appeared out of nowhere that nobody actually killed? That's pretty lame. Also, last time I checked, those scavenger drones immediately comes onto the battlefield to reclaim that stuff, so why would it still be there? A bunch of the EVE industry stuff started off as server seeded and was slowly switched to player interaction. I expect this to be possible here aswell. That was lame as well. That's why I didn't play it before. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8761	Posted - 2014.06.11 21:40:00 - [222] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: So it's stuff that appeared out of nowhere that nobody actually killed? That's pretty lame. Also, last time I checked, those scavenger drones immediately comes onto the battlefield to reclaim that stuff, so why would it still be there? A bunch of the EVE industry stuff started off as server seeded and was slowly switched to player interaction. I expect this to be possible here aswell. That was lame as well. That's why I didn't play it before. But you know it had to start off like that. In every economy, whether it's in a video game or in real-life, there needs to be an artificial means to get it going. But that's just the easy part. The hard part is maintaining balance. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2583	Posted - 2014.06.11 22:14:00 - [223] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: So it's stuff that appeared out of nowhere that nobody actually killed? That's pretty lame. Also, last time I checked, those scavenger drones immediately comes onto the battlefield to reclaim that stuff, so why would it still be there? A bunch of the EVE industry stuff started off as server seeded and was slowly switched to player interaction. I expect this to be possible here aswell. That was lame as well. That's why I didn't play it before. But you know it had to start off like that. In every economy, whether it's in a video game or in real-life, there needs to be an artificial means to get it going. But that's just the easy part. The hard part is maintaining balance. ugghhh okay, **** it, but that better not be the case later on. It should (and better) become a game where manufacturing or actual looting (as in you have to, or someone else has to kill something for there to be something). The device itself is fine by me. Set it down, and within X meters it can salvage and collect whatever is in the bodies or wrecks around you, as well as whatever they were using. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3038	Posted - 2014.06.12 02:12:00 - [224] - Quote @ Severus Smith At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester. Player controlled drones as a concept are really cool. I like the idea of putting a drone in the drone equivalent of a bleed out state and then hacking it to my GÇ£teamGÇ¥. But, before we think about that we need to get the base gameplay fun, see what kind of player/drone counts that takes and what the performance impact is. We then also have to factor in player count Vs server costs. There are all sorts of different factors in the balance. Would like to do something with them if possible.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8761	Posted - 2014.06.12 02:27:00 - [225] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester. Player controlled drones as a concept are really cool. I like the idea of putting a drone in the drone equivalent of a bleed out state and then hacking it to my GÇ£teamGÇ¥. But, before we think about that we need to get the base gameplay fun, see what kind of player/drone counts that takes and what the performance impact is. We then also have to factor in player count Vs server costs. There are all sorts of different factors in the balance. Would like to do something with them if possible. I got a question for you. Assuming Legion gets the green light from Hilmar, are we going test the salvage system in the Singularity Test Server? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3038	Posted - 2014.06.12 02:37:00 - [226] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester. Player controlled drones as a concept are really cool. I like the idea of putting a drone in the drone equivalent of a bleed out state and then hacking it to my GÇ£teamGÇ¥. But, before we think about that we need to get the base gameplay fun, see what kind of player/drone counts that takes and what the performance impact is. We then also have to factor in player count Vs server costs. There are all sorts of different factors in the balance. Would like to do something with them if possible. I got a question for you. Assuming Legion gets the green light from Hilmar, are we going test the salvage system in the Singularity Test Server? We'll certainly be testing it, I'll leave the decision as to where up to the tech gods

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8761	Posted - 2014.06.12 02:54:00 - [227] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester. Player controlled drones as a concept are really cool. I like the idea of putting a drone in the drone equivalent of a bleed out state and then hacking it to my GÇ£teamGÇ¥. But, before we think about that we need to get the base gameplay fun, see what kind of player/drone counts that takes and what the performance impact is. We then also have to factor in player count Vs server costs. There are all sorts of different factors in the balance. Would like to do something with them if possible. I got a question for you. Assuming Legion gets the green light from Hilmar, are we going test the salvage system in the Singularity Test Server? We'll certainly be testing it, I'll leave the decision as to where up to the tech gods /pulls out the nova knives Excellent. How many virgin gamers do I have to sacrifice to appease the gods? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Lilith Serenity UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 10	Posted - 2014.06.12 06:31:00 - [228] - Quote Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts. I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself. NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3044	Posted - 2014.06.12 06:38:00 - [229] - Quote Lilith Serenity wrote: Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts. I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself. NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back. At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 872	Posted - 2014.06.12 09:01:00 - [230] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. This is good to hear - perhaps a feature like fleet broadcasts in Eve. Quote: There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. That particular idea leaks too much intel, IMO. Probably better to color-flag players by their security status (i.e. past history of team killing) instead, with sensible overrides (in squad, in corp, in alliance, at war etc) Dust/Eve transfers

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.06.12 09:24:00 - [231] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. What about tagging players with icons like EVE's "suspect" and "wanted" tags? I.e if you team kill a player (or damage above a certain point) you become a "suspect" for a specific time period. Everybody will be able to see this icon on the player and in the chat window. After the time period it will disappear if no further aggression is taken against another player. If you continue your friendly killing spree you will become "wanted", which will not go away until you pay an ISK fee to Concord to boost your security status. This status will also inhibit you to deploy to Concord controlled systems. This way you can deploy to a district and check the chat window if there are any players which might be dangerous, like you can in EVE. Note that it has to be a damage or percentage threshold since you don't want griefing scenarios which a player takes down another to 1% health, and another player accidentally hits him and gets tagged.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 540	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:17:00 - [232] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: [quote=Lilith Serenity] At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. There-¦s a very interesting game that i like the system of alerts.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:47:00 - [233] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: [quote=Lilith Serenity] At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. There-¦s a very interesting game that i like the system of alerts. ^ Smart! Much better than my feeble attempt to describe EVE functionality
jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2014.06.12 12:04:00 - [234] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Lilith Serenity wrote: Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts. I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself. NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back. At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. FF? "Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you."
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.06.12 13:34:00 - [235] - Quote jaksol JAK darnson wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Lilith Serenity wrote: Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts. I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself. NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back. At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. FF? Friendly Fire
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:12:00 - [236] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Lilith Serenity wrote: Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts. I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself. NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back. At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. I posted this in another thread: Have an IFF Fire Control module equipped on all suits. It identifies others as Friend or Foe and prevents you from firing on blues. Removing it enables Friendly Fire but also makes you show up as red to everyone. - It cannot be removed in High Sec. So no friendly fire. - It can be removed in Low Sec. So to ambush friendlies you need to remove it somehow (Supply Depot, Redeploy, etc) and thus become red to them. This gives friendlies some warning of betrayal and allows strangers to team up together without extreme cases of paranoia. - It doesn't function in Null Sec. FF in on, always. Next, the colors should be Red (enemy), Blue (ally), and Yellow (neutral). Apply this to everything, including drones. So you could come upon a group of drones who are yellow towards you. But then your trigger happy squad mate fires on them, so they all aggro and become red towards your squad. They are sill yellow (neutral) towards other mercs that are not in your squad. It could also work the same for players. When my squad comes across another squad in High Sec (or anywhere) for the first time they could show as yellow (neutral). Both squads eye each other through scopes but no one fires and we part ways still yellow (neutral) to each other. However, if a squad member (of either group) fires on the other then both squads turn red (enemy) towards each other for 15 minutes. This would allow us to pick out enemies, from neutrals, quickly. Squads can run with NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) or NBSI (Not Blue Shoot It) doctrines while deployed and it wouldn't be too complex. Want to make someone red? Shoot them. Want to keep someone yellow? Don't shoot them and hope they don't shoot you.
Lilith Serenity UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 10	Posted - 2014.06.12 16:52:00 - [237] - Quote A Color Coding system would be great to Identify people who are in squads or same corporations, but shooting someone shouldn't turn them red, only if they shoot you and even if they do they're entire squad doesn't turn red with him but instead possibly orange to indicate as possible threats. I assume in High Sec space if another player just starts shooting you, Concord intervenes by sending down NPCs to eliminate that player but not if he steals from you. He/she just loses security rating and player stolen from has the right to kill or something along those lines.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.12 18:33:00 - [238] - Quote Or you could just borrow from Eve Online's Safety system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwBrlEGshM#t=84 How I would apply this to Dust would be like this. Keep in mind that the Safety doesn't care what the security status is of the star system you're in. If you set the safety to any of the colors below and click "CONFIRM" then you know what you're getting into and thus you made your bed. SAFETY GREEN: Utilizing the TACNET scanner built into the front of the gun, which is what enables you to read a target's health and weapon efficiency, if the target you are about to shoot happens to be a neutral, ally, or corp mate, your gun will jam only as long as that target is standing in the way. The same applies to vehicles and installations. Criminals are exempt from this protection and thus your gun will allow you to shoot them to death until their timer runs out. If aimed at a suspect while GREEN, the gun will fire until target's shield is depleted. After that, the gun will jam once it senses that the shields are down. SAFETY RED: Gun doesn't jam at all regardless of who you shoot. Suspect timer will be 1 minute long and you only get suspect timer after reaching a certain damage threshold. Criminal timer is 5 minutes long if you continue and reach an even higher threshold. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2597	Posted - 2014.06.12 19:20:00 - [239] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Or you could just borrow from Eve Online's Safety system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwBrlEGshM#t=84 How I would apply this to Dust would be like this. Keep in mind that the Safety doesn't care what the security status is of the star system you're in. If you set the safety to any of the colors below and click "CONFIRM" then you know what you're getting into and thus you made your bed. SAFETY GREEN: Utilizing the TACNET scanner built into the front of the gun, which is what enables you to read a target's health and weapon efficiency, if the target you are about to shoot happens to be a neutral, ally, or corp mate, your gun will jam only as long as that target is standing in the way. The same applies to vehicles and installations. Criminals are exempt from this protection and thus your gun will allow you to shoot them to death until their timer runs out. If aimed at a suspect while GREEN, the gun will fire until target's shield is depleted. After that, the gun will jam once it senses that the shields are down. SAFETY RED: Gun doesn't jam at all regardless of who you shoot. Suspect timer will be 1 minute long and you only get suspect timer after reaching a certain damage threshold. Criminal timer is 5 minutes long if you continue and reach an even higher threshold. Or both click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1361	Posted - 2014.06.12 19:30:00 - [240] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Or you could just borrow from Eve Online's Safety system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwBrlEGshM#t=84 How I would apply this to Dust would be like this. Keep in mind that the Safety doesn't care what the security status is of the star system you're in. If you set the safety to any of the colors below and click "CONFIRM" then you know what you're getting into and thus you made your bed. SAFETY GREEN: Utilizing the TACNET scanner built into the front of the gun, which is what enables you to read a target's health and weapon efficiency, if the target you are about to shoot happens to be a neutral, ally, or corp mate, your gun will jam only as long as that target is standing in the way. The same applies to vehicles and installations. Criminals are exempt from this protection and thus your gun will allow you to shoot them to death until their timer runs out. If aimed at a suspect while GREEN, the gun will fire until target's shield is depleted. After that, the gun will jam once it senses that the shields are down. SAFETY RED: Gun doesn't jam at all regardless of who you shoot. Suspect timer will be 1 minute long and you only get suspect timer after reaching a certain damage threshold. Criminal timer is 5 minutes long if you continue and reach an even higher threshold. This will reliably prevent FF with ADSed hitscan weapons but what about the odd statistical outlier bullet from hip firing, any AoE or trajectory weapon? In EVE there's only a handful of things (bombs and smartbombs from the top of my head) that can cause unintentional FF and those are arguably advanced enough to assume people know (usually) what they're doing when handling them. A mass driver is a pretty basic weapon. Or grenades You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.12 20:25:00 - [241] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Or you could just borrow from Eve Online's Safety system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwBrlEGshM#t=84 How I would apply this to Dust would be like this. Keep in mind that the Safety doesn't care what the security status is of the star system you're in. If you set the safety to any of the colors below and click "CONFIRM" then you know what you're getting into and thus you made your bed. SAFETY GREEN: Utilizing the TACNET scanner built into the front of the gun, which is what enables you to read a target's health and weapon efficiency, if the target you are about to shoot happens to be a neutral, ally, or corp mate, your gun will jam only as long as that target is standing in the way. The same applies to vehicles and installations. Criminals are exempt from this protection and thus your gun will allow you to shoot them to death until their timer runs out. If aimed at a suspect while GREEN, the gun will fire until target's shield is depleted. After that, the gun will jam once it senses that the shields are down. SAFETY RED: Gun doesn't jam at all regardless of who you shoot. Suspect timer will be 1 minute long and you only get suspect timer after reaching a certain damage threshold. Criminal timer is 5 minutes long if you continue and reach an even higher threshold. This will reliably prevent FF with ADSed hitscan weapons but what about the odd statistical outlier bullet from hip firing, any AoE or trajectory weapon? In EVE there's only a handful of things (bombs and smartbombs from the top of my head) that can cause unintentional FF and those are arguably advanced enough to assume people know (usually) what they're doing when handling them. A mass driver is a pretty basic weapon. Or grenades Edit for moderation: I think this system might be secure enough for low-sec (don't fire explosives into a bunch of blues, duh) but this and the following posts by CCP Wolfman et al. makes me suspect that he'd prefer a safer rule set for hi-sec areas. Thanks for bring up the AoE weapons. Eve Online does have bombs and smartbombs, but there is a difference between the two. Bombs in Eve are prevented from launching in high-sec and low-sec regardless of the SAFETY setting. You can only use a bomb in null-sec. It's just like the interdiction bubbles which are only allowed in null-sec. Smartbombs however are an entirely different beast. Currently in Eve Online you can use them in any system but you will have to set it to SAFETY RED in order to use it at all. Bare in mind that once you fire that smartbomb, you will suffer punishment from Concord if anyone in high-sec is caught in the blast. However, we're talking about a point-to-point MMO here. In Eve Online, it's nearly impossible to commit friendly fire unless you really are going out of your way to troll everyone. In a FPS setting however, it's different. I'm going on a limb here and think that certain weapons will be jammed in high-sec and low-sec unless you manually set yourself to SAFETY RED. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2597	Posted - 2014.06.12 22:27:00 - [242] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Or you could just borrow from Eve Online's Safety system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXwBrlEGshM#t=84 How I would apply this to Dust would be like this. Keep in mind that the Safety doesn't care what the security status is of the star system you're in. If you set the safety to any of the colors below and click "CONFIRM" then you know what you're getting into and thus you made your bed. SAFETY GREEN: Utilizing the TACNET scanner built into the front of the gun, which is what enables you to read a target's health and weapon efficiency, if the target you are about to shoot happens to be a neutral, ally, or corp mate, your gun will jam only as long as that target is standing in the way. The same applies to vehicles and installations. Criminals are exempt from this protection and thus your gun will allow you to shoot them to death until their timer runs out. If aimed at a suspect while GREEN, the gun will fire until target's shield is depleted. After that, the gun will jam once it senses that the shields are down. SAFETY RED: Gun doesn't jam at all regardless of who you shoot. Suspect timer will be 1 minute long and you only get suspect timer after reaching a certain damage threshold. Criminal timer is 5 minutes long if you continue and reach an even higher threshold. This will reliably prevent FF with ADSed hitscan weapons but what about the odd statistical outlier bullet from hip firing, any AoE or trajectory weapon? In EVE there's only a handful of things (bombs and smartbombs from the top of my head) that can cause unintentional FF and those are arguably advanced enough to assume people know (usually) what they're doing when handling them. A mass driver is a pretty basic weapon. Or grenades Edit for moderation: I think this system might be secure enough for low-sec (don't fire explosives into a bunch of blues, duh) but this and the following posts by CCP Wolfman et al. makes me suspect that he'd prefer a safer rule set for hi-sec areas. Thanks for bring up the AoE weapons. Eve Online does have bombs and smartbombs, but there is a difference between the two. Bombs in Eve are prevented from launching in high-sec and low-sec regardless of the SAFETY setting. You can only use a bomb in null-sec. It's just like the interdiction bubbles which are only allowed in null-sec. Smartbombs however are an entirely different beast. Currently in Eve Online you can use them in any system but you will have to set it to SAFETY RED in order to use it at all. Bare in mind that once you fire that smartbomb, you will suffer punishment from Concord if anyone in high-sec is caught in the blast. However, we're talking about a point-to-point MMO here. In Eve Online, it's nearly impossible to commit friendly fire unless you really are going out of your way to troll everyone. In a FPS setting however, it's different. I'm going on a limb here and think that certain weapons will be jammed in high-sec and low-sec unless you manually set yourself to SAFETY RED. That'd be fine. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1361	Posted - 2014.06.12 22:49:00 - [243] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: [ Eve Online does have bombs and smartbombs, but there is a difference between the two. Bombs in Eve are prevented from launching in high-sec and low-sec regardless of the SAFETY setting. You can only use a bomb in null-sec. It's just like the interdiction bubbles which are only allowed in null-sec. Smartbombs however are an entirely different beast. Currently in Eve Online you can use them in any system but you will have to set it to SAFETY RED in order to use it at all. Bare in mind that once you fire that smartbomb, you will suffer punishment from Concord if anyone in high-sec is caught in the blast. However, we're talking about a point-to-point MMO here. In Eve Online, it's nearly impossible to commit friendly fire unless you really are going out of your way to troll everyone. In a FPS setting however, it's different. I'm going on a limb here and think that certain weapons will be jammed in high-sec and low-sec unless you manually set yourself to SAFETY RED. Ah right, I forgot about sec restrictions on weapons. While I agree that locking those high risk weapons to RED safety is a possibility, it worries me to think how many weapon systems have to be "redlocked" to provide the safety necessary to provide new players a friendly environment. Worst of all, I just thought of another, technical, problem with the system you propose. Latency The games' current net code is based on a client/server architecture with the latter having full authority over the game state. This means that the client does not directly control the simulation but merely sends user input to the server which will incorporate it into the simulation. However, to provide a fluid and responsive gameplay experience the client does a fair amount of predictions regarding his actions and the results thereof. For example, firing a shot from any weapon will immediately commence the firing animation, draw the fired projectile and, if it sees a shot connecting from his end, the impact animations. But all of these actions are just anticipated by the client while the server has to confirm on his end that a shot has been fired before deducting a bullet from the magazine and check itself whether the hitscan function or bullet simulation actually produces a hit before deducting health from the target. Due to lag and interpolation, the exact positions of all moving entities displayed to the user by the client never matches their respective coordinates exactly. This regularly leads to cases where the client, based on the game state known to him, predicts a hit and displays the hit marker and effect while the server, in control of said gamestate, negates the hit and deals no damage to the target. The inverse does also happen for the same reasons. In th the case of GREEN security settings and firing at a friendly with a pinpoint hitscan weapon, four particular things can happen: Client predicts hit. Server calculates hit Server and client agree that the shot would've caused friendly fire. The client draws no animations and the server denies the fire command. What the user sees is congruent with what is actually happening. Client predicts miss. Server calculates miss. Server and client agree that the shot wouldn't cause FF. Client draws animation and server confirms shot and deducts a bullet from the magazine. User feedback is, again, consistent with reality. Client predicts miss. Server calculates hit. That's where things get awry. The client assumes the weapons trajectory does not intersect with a friendly hitbox, thus displays weapon and (ground) impact animations, while the server declares that the shot would've connected and that no shot was ever fired because of the FF lock. Feedback and reality do not align. Client predicts hit. Server calculates miss. Lastly. The client predicts a FF hit and draws no animations. The server, however decides that the shot can happen and deducts a bullet from ammo count. The user loses a bullet despite having been given the information that no shot has been fired. Remember that the two latter scenarios are no edge cases. This kind of stuff happens in FPS all the time. While surely not a game breaking flaw, this kind of behavior can be very annoying and is very detrimental to the gameflow as well as perceived net code quality. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.12 23:00:00 - [244] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: [ Eve Online does have bombs and smartbombs, but there is a difference between the two. Bombs in Eve are prevented from launching in high-sec and low-sec regardless of the SAFETY setting. You can only use a bomb in null-sec. It's just like the interdiction bubbles which are only allowed in null-sec. Smartbombs however are an entirely different beast. Currently in Eve Online you can use them in any system but you will have to set it to SAFETY RED in order to use it at all. Bare in mind that once you fire that smartbomb, you will suffer punishment from Concord if anyone in high-sec is caught in the blast. However, we're talking about a point-to-point MMO here. In Eve Online, it's nearly impossible to commit friendly fire unless you really are going out of your way to troll everyone. In a FPS setting however, it's different. I'm going on a limb here and think that certain weapons will be jammed in high-sec and low-sec unless you manually set yourself to SAFETY RED. Ah right, I forgot about sec restrictions on weapons. While I agree that locking those high risk weapons to RED safety is a possibility, it worries me to think how many weapon systems have to be "redlocked" to provide the safety necessary to provide new players a friendly environment. Worst of all, I just thought of another, technical, problem with the system you propose. Latency The games' current net code is based on a client/server architecture with the latter having full authority over the game state. This means that the client does not directly control the simulation but merely sends user input to the server which will incorporate it into the simulation. However, to provide a fluid and responsive gameplay experience the client does a fair amount of predictions regarding his actions and the results thereof. For example, firing a shot from any weapon will immediately commence the firing animation, draw the fired projectile and, if it sees a shot connecting from his end, the impact animations. But all of these actions are just anticipated by the client while the server has to confirm on his end that a shot has been fired before deducting a bullet from the magazine and check itself whether the hitscan function or bullet simulation actually produces a hit before deducting health from the target. Due to lag and interpolation, the exact positions of all moving entities displayed to the user by the client never matches their respective coordinates exactly. This regularly leads to cases where the client, based on the game state known to him, predicts a hit and displays the hit marker and effect while the server, in control of said gamestate, negates the hit and deals no damage to the target. The inverse does also happen for the same reasons. In th the case of GREEN security settings and firing at a friendly with a pinpoint hitscan weapon, four particular things can happen: Client predicts hit. Server calculates hit Server and client agree that the shot would've caused friendly fire. The client draws no animations and the server denies the fire command. What the user sees is congruent with what is actually happening. Client predicts miss. Server calculates miss. Server and client agree that the shot wouldn't cause FF. Client draws animation and server confirms shot and deducts a bullet from the magazine. User feedback is, again, consistent with reality. Client predicts miss. Server calculates hit. That's where things get awry. The client assumes the weapons trajectory does not intersect with a friendly hitbox, thus displays weapon and (ground) impact animations, while the server declares that the shot would've connected and that no shot was ever fired because of the FF lock. Feedback and reality do not align. Client predicts hit. Server calculates miss. Lastly. The client predicts a FF hit and draws no animations. The server, however decides that the shot can happen and deducts a bullet from ammo count. The user loses a bullet despite having been given the information that no shot has been fired. Remember that the two latter scenarios are no edge cases. This kind of stuff happens in FPS all the time. While surely not a game breaking flaw, this kind of behavior can be very annoying and is very detrimental to the gameflow as well as perceived net code quality. Interesting scenarios. Those seriously need to be looked into BEFORE Legion goes into closed beta. But I fear there is not much to do except one thing. Streamline the server architecture so that there is as minimal hit-n-miss cases. But that's easier said than done as that probably will require a level of Client/Server communication that is unheard of in the gaming industry. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1361	Posted - 2014.06.12 23:13:00 - [245] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Interesting scenarios. Those seriously need to be looked into BEFORE Legion goes into closed beta. But I fear there is not much to do except one thing. Streamline the server architecture so that there is as minimal hit-n-miss cases. But that's easier said than done as that probably will require a level of Client/Server communication that is unheard of in the gaming industry. The client hit/server miss scenario is actually rather easy to prevent with a minor drawback attached. When the client anticipates friendly fire, it doesn't send the "firing" packet in the first place. This means no chance of uncommunicated shots but results in reduced combat efficiency as potentially valid firing opportunities are denied on initiative of the client. This seems like a reasonable tradeoff since a "when in doubt, hold fire" approach at least makes some sense when thinking about it. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8764	Posted - 2014.06.13 00:19:00 - [246] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Interesting scenarios. Those seriously need to be looked into BEFORE Legion goes into closed beta. But I fear there is not much to do except one thing. Streamline the server architecture so that there is as minimal hit-n-miss cases. But that's easier said than done as that probably will require a level of Client/Server communication that is unheard of in the gaming industry. The client hit/server miss scenario is actually rather easy to prevent with a minor drawback attached. When the client anticipates friendly fire, it doesn't send the "firing" packet in the first place. This means no chance of uncommunicated shots but results in reduced combat efficiency as potentially valid firing opportunities are denied on initiative of the client. This seems like a reasonable tradeoff since a "when in doubt, hold fire" approach at least makes some sense when thinking about it. I see. Also, I just took the time to put together a visual diagram of the SAFETY system. Something for CCP Wolfman to look into when it comes to dealing with Friendly Fire. https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1U6hArz8JY-QD3ZEGYxqXepq2v43ymPmP_-7eaZ9C0ic/edit?usp=sharing I just noticed. We strayed off from the topic of salvage to the topic of friendly fire. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3060	Posted - 2014.06.13 01:51:00 - [247] - Quote I think it's very relevant to Salvage though, handling this badly (or not at all) could lead to a lot of frustration.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 284	Posted - 2014.06.13 08:18:00 - [248] - Quote My preference has always been to have FF enabled in all game modes, but give clear feedback to both the perpetrator and victim. There should be defined (and clear) consequences for FF based on security status, which will teach new players (and old) about the game mechanics. The rules should inhibit grefing in high sec, by locking out players to deploy to high security space with repeated violations. Low sec should have less stricter rules, and null sec none at all. The rules should allow an accidental killing to be passed of with a warning, to not punish honest mistakes. The Dust "punish" (read: report to Concord) option should be available to allow accidental FF to go unpunished if the victim allows it. The reason for this is very obvious in Dust Faction Warfare, where players coming in from pubs have learned a spray and pray mentality, with no regards for the teammates. If you have a protection system which suddenly goes from 100% to 0% (with no clear indication), you don't have time to adapt and you will be killed or get kicked. By enabling FF overall (by all weapons), but adjusting the consequences accordingly they will learn quicker, and be ready for lower security systems. Just my two ISK
Sarus Rambo Direct Action Resources 166	Posted - 2014.06.13 18:22:00 - [249] - Quote How about a simple safety feature on weapons that can be turned on and off, which would cause weapons to be harmless to other mercenaries? How about 3 setting, the highest safety being weapons don't hurt anyone, the mid range being weapons do not hurt squad members, and then the third being weapons hurt everyone. Removing this safety would allow your weapons to basically cause damage to others. In high sec space, turning your safeties off and damaging another player would result in an instant clone termination, and a substantial security status hit. Id say if you do this 3 times your security status drops below the prerequisite for high security space play, forcing the player into lower sec space. In low sec, firing initial shots on other players still causes the security status decrease, but does not terminate the clone allowing people to kill when them deem it most necessary, or to kill in self defense without consequences. I would also say that all squad members would be free to target a player without consequences, if one of the squad members was shot at. This would promote group play inside lower sec areas, since it makes things safer. Null sec would be a giant free-for-all where nothing you do has any sec status consequences, and your free to be the biggest jerk you'd like, but you'd be competing with other jerks for sweet rewards. Obviously this would come with substantial better rewards from salvage in each lower sec status area, which would make up for the overall higher risk. This system would allow for emergent game-play by allowing people to make choices and decisions that would effect others, just like in EvE. This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 239	Posted - 2014.06.14 06:47:00 - [250] - Quote I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions.

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2605	Posted - 2014.06.14 10:55:00 - [251] - Quote Ghural wrote: I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions. Most people won't even use the ingame chat. Calling it now. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8767	Posted - 2014.06.14 19:18:00 - [252] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Ghural wrote: I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions. Most people won't even use the ingame chat. Calling it now. Quoted for truth. Eve alliances even often discourage the use of in-game chat because of how insecure the communication is. If you have critical intel to relay to very important people and you want to do it in the most secret way possible, the last thing you would ever use is the in-game chat. Teamspeak and Mumble are well known to provide secure comms. But even then those aren't the only options. Some players even go as far as sharing cell phone numbers and emails. I swear, us Eve players are some of the most paranoid bunch you've ever seen. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2607	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:27:00 - [253] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Ghural wrote: I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions. Most people won't even use the ingame chat. Calling it now. Quoted for truth. Eve alliances even often discourage the use of in-game chat because of how insecure the communication is. If you have critical intel to relay to very important people and you want to do it in the most secret way possible, the last thing you would ever use is the in-game chat. Teamspeak and Mumble are well known to provide secure comms. But even then those aren't the only options. Some players even go as far as sharing cell phone numbers and emails. I swear, us Eve players are some of the most paranoid bunch you've ever seen. This is just big examples of things that happens everyday on smaller scales. There's a reason why Caps do what they do. We haven't gotten that far before because all there is to ruin is stealing from the corp wallet......... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3065	Posted - 2014.06.15 06:35:00 - [254] - Quote Thanks for all the great ideas guys. IGÇÖve been giving this a little thought and I think IGÇÖm leaning towards a reactive system rather than a proactive one. If the safety level is player determined (proactive) I know for sure that a blue tag isnGÇÖt intending to shoot me. If it is reactive then I just know he might not shoot me and hasnGÇÖt shot anyone recently. I rather like the sense of slight uncertainty with the latter method. Whether or not thatGÇÖs appropriate for high sec is a different question though...

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 286	Posted - 2014.06.15 07:34:00 - [255] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Thanks for all the great ideas guys. IGÇÖve been giving this a little thought and I think IGÇÖm leaning towards a reactive system rather than a proactive one. If the safety level is player determined (proactive) I know for sure that a blue tag isnGÇÖt intending to shoot me. If it is reactive then I just know he might not shoot me and hasnGÇÖt shot anyone recently. I rather like the sense of slight uncertainty with the latter method. Whether or not thatGÇÖs appropriate for high sec is a different question though... Like like like I was never fond of the idea that the player should have an influence in the security setting. As stated before, I think Legion would do well to have ONE system which applies universally, in both high, low and null sec. This brings consistency to the game mechanics, and the only thing that should vary is the consequences of your actions (based on security level).
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3171	Posted - 2014.06.15 11:49:00 - [256] - Quote Agree u break the rules in high sec u get slapped hard like a concord police drone that instant blaps u. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
ANON Cerberus ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 836	Posted - 2014.06.15 12:00:00 - [257] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Agree u break the rules in high sec u get slapped hard like a concord police drone that instant blaps u. Much prefer this soprt of idea. Its similar to how it works in EVE and I think that is good for the players. You want highsec to have a seftey barrier so that noobs and other people unfamiliar with the game have some sort of saftey from the angry proto mobs!
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 241	Posted - 2014.06.15 13:06:00 - [258] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Ghural wrote: I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions. Most people won't even use the ingame chat. Calling it now. Quoted for truth. Eve alliances even often discourage the use of in-game chat because of how insecure the communication is. If you have critical intel to relay to very important people and you want to do it in the most secret way possible, the last thing you would ever use is the in-game chat. Teamspeak and Mumble are well known to provide secure comms. But even then those aren't the only options. Some players even go as far as sharing cell phone numbers and emails. I swear, us Eve players are some of the most paranoid bunch you've ever seen. Ok. I'm going to go ahead and state what should be incredibly obvious but you've both missed. Your opponents won't be on your teamspeak, nor will the potential allies that you might happen across. Whilst many players (according to the stats that you didn't bother to quote) don't use EVE speak. Doesn't mean people wouldn't use it in Legion. Look at CoD or planetside 2, or DayZ, or Dust514 (yeah I went there) or any number of other games.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8769	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:45:00 - [259] - Quote Ghural wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Ghural wrote: I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions. Most people won't even use the ingame chat. Calling it now. Quoted for truth. Eve alliances even often discourage the use of in-game chat because of how insecure the communication is. If you have critical intel to relay to very important people and you want to do it in the most secret way possible, the last thing you would ever use is the in-game chat. Teamspeak and Mumble are well known to provide secure comms. But even then those aren't the only options. Some players even go as far as sharing cell phone numbers and emails. I swear, us Eve players are some of the most paranoid bunch you've ever seen. Ok. I'm going to go ahead and state what should be incredibly obvious but you've both missed. Your opponents won't be on your teamspeak, nor will the potential allies that you might happen across. Whilst many players (according to the stats that you didn't bother to quote) don't use EVE speak. Doesn't mean people wouldn't use it in Legion. Look at CoD or planetside 2, or DayZ, or Dust514 (yeah I went there) or any number of other games. I was talking about alliances. I don't mind having an improved in-game comm system for Legion for those who like to chat with the enemy or a random neutral. I'm just letting you know ahead of time that most alliances, especially the most powerful and influential ones, will often discourage you from using in-game comms and encourage you to use TS or Mumble. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2613	Posted - 2014.06.15 20:13:00 - [260] - Quote Ghural wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Ghural wrote: I think being able to use emotes, proximity voice chat, and being able to holster your weapon are ways that players can use to show their non-hostile or hostile intentions. Most people won't even use the ingame chat. Calling it now. Quoted for truth. Eve alliances even often discourage the use of in-game chat because of how insecure the communication is. If you have critical intel to relay to very important people and you want to do it in the most secret way possible, the last thing you would ever use is the in-game chat. Teamspeak and Mumble are well known to provide secure comms. But even then those aren't the only options. Some players even go as far as sharing cell phone numbers and emails. I swear, us Eve players are some of the most paranoid bunch you've ever seen. Ok. I'm going to go ahead and state what should be incredibly obvious but you've both missed. Your opponents won't be on your teamspeak, nor will the potential allies that you might happen across. Whilst many players (according to the stats that you didn't bother to quote) don't use EVE speak. Doesn't mean people wouldn't use it in Legion. Look at CoD or planetside 2, or DayZ, or Dust514 (yeah I went there) or any number of other games. Pretty much any multiplayer game that I've ever played, the people used teamspeak. I call bullshit. Also you listed a PS3 game, and PS3 doesn't have TS..................... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 291	Posted - 2014.06.16 20:35:00 - [261] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think it's very relevant to Salvage though, handling this badly (or not at all) could lead to a lot of frustration. I started a new thread with a proposal of a possible reactive system if you are interested. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2211923#post2211923
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3716	Posted - 2014.06.17 15:34:00 - [262] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Severus Smith wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. Implement an IFF Fire Control module. Basically a module that is equipped in all suits that prevents you from firing on friendly, or neutral, enemies. - This module is required in all High Security systems. Thus no friendly fire. - This module can be removed in Low Security systems. So if you want to go gank / pirate / be an a**hat you have to somehow remove the IFF module (Supply Depot, or redeploy, or something). Without the IFF you show up as an enemy to all around you but are also capable of firing on anyone. - This module is useless in Null Security systems. Friendly fire is always on and you can shoot at anyone. What this does is help preserve trust and decrease ganking. Because people will get PISSED if they just suddenly get lit up by their "teammates" and soon salvaging will only be a single person activity because no one can trust anyone. This is quite interesting. Will give it some thought. Consequence to killing friendlies in Low Sec should be that it drops your security status. When your security status drops too far you start losing access to Salvage areas in 1 & 0.9 Security systems. As your security status drops further you loose access to 0.8/0.7 and then 0.6/0.5 Security systems. At a curtain point you get permanently red flagged in Low Sec, and people can kill you without consequence. There would of course have to be a way of getting your sec Status back up, such as doing missions. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3716	Posted - 2014.06.17 15:44:00 - [263] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. It would be nice if Drones dropped some of the salvage they had collected when they are killed, and some of the gear from other players became salvageable when they die. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3716	Posted - 2014.06.17 15:48:00 - [264] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester. Should have the salvager shown strapped to the back of the suit when it is not deployed. First, because of immersion, but also so you can see if someone has their Salvager deployed or not. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 314	Posted - 2014.06.21 02:02:00 - [265] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: EVE players and drones IGÇÖve seen a few comments asking whether or not EVE players will be allowed to deploy drones to salvage themselves. This is a pretty cool idea although it seems like a shame to not create a player to player relationship between EVE pilots and mercs on the ground. Still interesting possibilities there for the future. Is there a chance to allowing EVE players to deploy scanning probes over the planets to help dusters find salvage site, drones, or others player "harvesting" module?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2897	Posted - 2014.06.22 21:54:00 - [266] - Quote Now Im pretty sure I have said so already, but Im not comfortable with the idea of 100% of sold gear coming from salvage. The idea of basing an ENTIRE economy on luck (random-chance) driven salvage seems both far-fetched and rather odd. Don't get me wrong the idea of clone-jumping down to a planet to find salvageable treasures is cool and should most definitely be integrated. I just don't think it should be responsible for 100% of an economy. If we imagine active player numbers at half the magnitude of EvE so about 100,000 at a time. Dying on average once every 2 minutes per clone. Is salvage, going to be able to keep up with that kind of demand? Furthermore how is Salvage once again a system designed entirely on luck going to keep it Fair and up-to-date in the demand driven economy of suits weapons and so forth. Imagine that Gallante Sentinel Dropsuits are FOTM they have a total 25% market share ( The Gallante and Caldari scout suits had extremely close to this magnitude during their FOTM cycle), how are you going to make salvage keep up with this increased demand? More to the point how are you gonna stop one guy getting a haul of 500 Gallante Sentinels to sell and become rich overnight, while another unfortunate fellow ends up with 500 Minmatar Scout Dropsuits that he is forced to sell at a dime a dozen because he wasn't fortunate enough to get the in Items at the time? You then have to consider how to ensure that market doesn't get flooded with only specific items, or that those who do not want to participate in salvage or salavaging (as should be their right) to still be able to get the highly sought after items when everyome is just going to keep them for themselves? Like I said Salvage is a great idea, I would love to see it implemented in the game, I just think it should contribute maybe only 30-40% to the regular (standard issue) market. However it should account for about 80% of the collectors (unique/rare issue) market. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11005	Posted - 2014.06.22 22:06:00 - [267] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: EVE players and drones IGÇÖve seen a few comments asking whether or not EVE players will be allowed to deploy drones to salvage themselves. This is a pretty cool idea although it seems like a shame to not create a player to player relationship between EVE pilots and mercs on the ground. Still interesting possibilities there for the future. Is there a chance to allowing EVE players to deploy scanning probes over the planets to help dusters find salvage site, drones, or others player "harvesting" module? I think it would be hillarious to see us escorting Drones to Salvage zones, have the drones box up the goodies, and see those boxes fly up into the sky X-files style....... " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 314	Posted - 2014.06.23 00:20:00 - [268] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: EVE players and drones IGÇÖve seen a few comments asking whether or not EVE players will be allowed to deploy drones to salvage themselves. This is a pretty cool idea although it seems like a shame to not create a player to player relationship between EVE pilots and mercs on the ground. Still interesting possibilities there for the future. Is there a chance to allowing EVE players to deploy scanning probes over the planets to help dusters find salvage site, drones, or others player "harvesting" module? I think it would be hillarious to see us escorting Drones to Salvage zones, have the drones box up the goodies, and see those boxes fly up into the sky X-files style....... If you telling that we suppose to escort EVE player drones to salvage site and protect them just in case - that's not really look fun for me. The more we(as a soldiers) have to work on Legion PvE the funnier it is. EVE player could give us narrow advantage, max 10% on finding anything. Sending drones differs from sending probes in time that capsuler would have to spend on planet. Each time when you send drone in EVE you have to wait until it returns, you can not warp out, and do some other stuff because drone will 'lost'. Thats why prob idea is cooler because it's required minimum amount of time for capsular, he just need to warp in, press one button, and he can warp out. Eve player can earn 2kk~ ISK/min in some null-sec anomaly, sometimes even much more if he is lucky.. So it would be very hard to balance that effort of sending drones to the ground for him and forcing yourself to orbit planet while we(on ground) are searching for something valuable for us and for him(because otherwise he will not return to do it again in future). (sorry for poor english)
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 548	Posted - 2014.06.23 00:32:00 - [269] - Quote I-¦m thinking the transportation system of the Salvage Goods will be similar to Silkroad
Aran Abbas Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 427	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:28:00 - [270] - Quote An idea I find interesting, but perhaps it's a bad one... What if instead of a salvage module you had a load limit, and the better the salvage the more it weighed? You would have to call in an 'RDV' to take the salvage off your body, at which point you've banked your loot and could move at normal speed again. It creates a way for getting salvage off the ground, and making carrying too much of it quite risky, and makes the higher level stuff more risky, and people can see this RDV you call in and can zone in on your location. Maybe there are some AA drones where there's very high level salvage and you need to work as a team to clear them out before an RDV can come in and survive. Guys with swarms and forges would be the ultimate trolls. They couldn't get to you very quickly, but they might destroy what you just tried to extract from the surface. If there is a harvester, maybe it could be like a pet that follows you around. You can upgrade pets, but they can be destroyed too. The more load the pet can carry, the more damage it can sustain, the slower it is.

Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 366	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:27:00 - [271] - Quote blub
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 241	Posted - 2014.06.24 04:32:00 - [272] - Quote I like the idea of having to call in an RDV that slowly lifts off with your lootz. Creates some nice tense gameplay in which all of your phat lootz are vulnerable to disruptive gameplay.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 314	Posted - 2014.06.24 19:32:00 - [273] - Quote Ghural wrote: I like the idea of having to call in an RDV that slowly lifts off with your lootz. Creates some nice tense gameplay in which all of your phat lootz are vulnerable to disruptive gameplay. Disruptive gameplay for someone with AV and only for a few seconds .
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 243	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:28:00 - [274] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Ghural wrote: I like the idea of having to call in an RDV that slowly lifts off with your lootz. Creates some nice tense gameplay in which all of your phat lootz are vulnerable to disruptive gameplay. Disruptive gameplay for someone with AV and only for a few seconds . Then bring your own air support (or purchase a more buff RDV)

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3082	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:00:00 - [275] - Quote Thought you might like to check out some early pics of the Harvester. Here you see it closed: Here it's open and you can probably see why it's been nicknamed scorpion

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6113	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:05:00 - [276] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Thought you might like to check out some early pics of the Harvester. Here you see it closed: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NebJcxw.jpg[/IMG] Here it's open and you can probably see why it's been nicknamed scorpion [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QsoeYTn.jpg[/IMG] Ooooooh, love it - very ORE like. Can we get something nearby so we can get a sense of scale? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3082	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:09:00 - [277] - Quote Don't have anything to hand right now. It's about the size of a very large back pack. We have noticed the the FOV makes it look a little smaller than we expected. We'll need to get a functional test in game first to test it out (right now it's represented by a rotating box!).

Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1453	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:23:00 - [278] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Don't have anything to hand right now. It's about the size of a very large back pack. We have noticed the the FOV makes it look a little smaller than we expected. We'll need to get a functional test in game first to test it out (right now it's represented by a rotating box!). It looks pretty sweet. Out of curiosity. Is the concept of drones being more of an active component in moment to moment gameplay still on the table or should slowly say goodbye to this dream? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6113	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:23:00 - [279] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Don't have anything to hand right now. It's about the size of a very large back pack. We have noticed the the FOV makes it look a little smaller than we expected. We'll need to get a functional test in game first to test it out (right now it's represented by a rotating box!). Sooo like the backpacks the Minmatar Assault wears? Those are pretty hefty Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3083	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:27:00 - [280] - Quote its actually a fair bit bigger than that :-)


OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 17	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:37:00 - [281] - Quote Sounds interesting. But I am already envisioning the forge gunners and vehicles spawn killing harvester drones... Perhaps make a point of making the AI not so stupid? Gotta say I wasn't a huge fan of how simplistic the AI was when I tried a free Eve trial...
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3182	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:55:00 - [282] - Quote Ooohhhh i like, does this thing follow us around or does it clip onto a suits backpack, as i could frustrateing counters of trolls just blowing them up at the perimeter of a salavage site. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3085	Posted - 2014.06.25 08:57:00 - [283] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Ooohhhh i like, does this thing follow us around or does it clip onto a suits backpack, as i could frustrateing counters of trolls just blowing them up at the perimeter of a salavage site. It's deployed like a fat nanohive. Only difference is there is a put down and pick up anim. Right now they can be destroyed but it is very very hard.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3182	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:05:00 - [284] - Quote That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3085	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:10:00 - [285] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it.

Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1453	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:14:00 - [286] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it. So the plan is for them to be mostly passive at any rate? What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3086	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:21:00 - [287] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it. So the plan is for them to be mostly passive at any rate? What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own? Yes, although we've talked about the possibility of adding some built in defense to them. You can only carry one so if you want to steal you have to abandon yours.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3182	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:26:00 - [288] - Quote I thinking adding in a hacking step would be useful to allow players who prepared the field a chanse to respond to ambushs For example respawn at a hidden uplink, notify a sniper on over watch, detonate RE etc etc. I for one would use the harvesters to bait noobs and kill them and steal their stuff during the hacking stage. "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 297	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:28:00 - [289] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own? I guess you can't? Especially if it is the size of a very large backpack. There could be two mechanics perhaps? 1) With intention to steal (I.e left my own scavenger at home) -> kills dude and pick up his scavenger -> Leg it 2) Scavenging on my own (can't pick up another one without dropping my own) -> kills dude and hack his scavenger (which will give me a percentage of his loot) -> leg it
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 297	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:34:00 - [290] - Quote Btw: keep posting Wolfman! + 6 likes and counting (You know you want them ) Good work. Likes all of it!


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3093	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:59:00 - [291] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own? I guess you can't? Especially if it is the size of a very large backpack. There could be two mechanics perhaps? 1) With intention to steal (I.e left my own scavenger at home) -> kills dude and pick up his scavenger -> Leg it 2) Scavenging on my own (can't pick up another one without dropping my own) -> kills dude and hack his scavenger (which will give me a percentage of his loot) -> leg it That's just about how it's working atm apart from we have no hacking yet. Stealing loot via a hack without picking up the harvester is an interesting thought.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15606	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:02:00 - [292] - Quote Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3095	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:09:00 - [293] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far. Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet.

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3182	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:38:00 - [294] - Quote Wolfman the whole sarcasm thing :-p. Will the havester be race neutral ie maybe by ORE? Or will each faction have their own version(yes i will keep this thread going :-P) "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6113	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:41:00 - [295] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: It's deployed like a fat nanohive. Only difference is there is a put down and pick up anim. Right now they can be destroyed but it is very very hard. What's the time duration of the animation? Is this something I'm going to have to consider the battlefield for, like hacking objectives, or is it a bit quicker like the Active Scanners? CCP Wolfman wrote: Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it. Do it. And when you do it, see how fun it is to go ninja-stealing with a Minmatar Scout Give that poor [redacted] a reason to be feared in the Salvage Fields. CCP Wolfman wrote: Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet. Dude, you should at -LEAST- give credit and reference links Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:34:00 - [296] - Quote Can i scan the content of the salvagers to decide wich one i want to steal, or is it a random choice thing? How do i decide betwen this or those other 9 dropped on the carnaged battlefield? Since you can-¦t destroy it easily, is it a "capture the flag/briefcase" mode where people shoot each other until you reach a destination with it? Pretty pretty pretty! For naming reasons and not to conflict with other items, could you get another name other than scorpion? There-¦s already a ship named like this.

CCP Blowout C C P C C P Alliance 957	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:43:00 - [297] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far. Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet. Please don't troll - these are serious forums, ty. Part man, part Internet.

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2442	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:55:00 - [298] - Quote Planetary dropsuits can't be nearly as serious as internet spaceships.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6113	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:34:00 - [299] - Quote CCP Blowout wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far. Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet. Please don't troll - these are serious forums, ty. Not sure if serious or trolli- OH GOD PARADOX Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11194	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:23:00 - [300] - Quote Any asset type that is completely new is always Caldari by default. Sometimes Gallente, but of course never Minmatar and Amarr. Always the generic scifi angularity and silver. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3184	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:31:00 - [301] - Quote I waa gunna say if your making a SALAVAGE item surly its got to be built by the rust buckets "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6113	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:35:00 - [302] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Any asset type that is completely new is always Caldari by default. Sometimes Gallente, but of course never Minmatar and Amarr. Always the generic scifi angularity and silver. Think we've established already that it's very much an ORE creation. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 219	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:14:00 - [303] - Quote Before reading through the rest of the replies here Id like to hand over some of my invaluable IP here, storming from the tip of my brain: 1. Random Wrecks: These wrecks would need to be scanned down or stumbled over by luck, and yield little to medium rewards, but prove to be a nice change of pace. 2. Junkyards, Ruins, Relic Sites, Abandoned Outposts, Ghost Towns: I want to suggest to give players the opportunity to gather around hotspots like the dirty vultures they are in their hearts. Some may solo around there, others may claim and guard their Sites. A great opportunity to set up traps, ambushes and camps, YOU FILTHY PIRATES! 2 b. Make the value or "exhaustion state" of above Sites roughly discernible by their looks. So if there isnt much to get there, one should have the opportunity to find out pretty quickly. Noobs can estimate the risk of running into the claims of more powerful groups that way and Corps could quickly move on to more profitable grounds. 3. Being Cautious: The possibility to look around while salvaging and defend yourself would be nice. So either there is instant salvaging, or you can use drones to salvage slowly for you while you stay guard. I guess using some sort of Salvage Laser would be pretty boring in a FPS. Facing some object while instant looting should leave the player vulnerable enough to ninjas. Only be careful: Just walking over hovering glowing stuff would be too simple and also break the immersion. Having a nice animation of your own hand opening some rusty box would be AWESOME. 4. Nasty surprises: The frequent appearance of Rogue Drones or even organic Critters would be obligatory for me. Be it on Random Wrecks or Sites. Though players should be able to avoid them / run away from them, if they are careful and sneaky, and survive an ambush. 5. Active Scanning: The Active Scanner could come in a long range salvage utility variety. Not being able to scan down potential threats, it is able to find Random Wrecks and hidden Sites via a "big object sensitive LADAR array" or "Orbital Detail Cartography Database Versus Optical Landscape Silhouette Crossreferencing Technology (tm)". The subtle noise of drones and men will be beyond its capabilites. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3830	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:29:00 - [304] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Blowout wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far. Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet. Please don't troll - these are serious forums, ty. Not sure if serious or trolli- OH GOD PARADOX ItGÇÖs Blowout. That post canGÇÖt possibly be serious. There is too much irony in it. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3830	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:34:00 - [305] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own? I guess you can't? Especially if it is the size of a very large backpack. There could be two mechanics perhaps? 1) With intention to steal (I.e left my own scavenger at home) -> kills dude and pick up his scavenger -> Leg it 2) Scavenging on my own (can't pick up another one without dropping my own) -> kills dude and hack his scavenger (which will give me a percentage of his loot) -> leg it That's just about how it's working atm apart from we have no hacking yet. Stealing loot via a hack without picking up the harvester is an interesting thought. Can we leave our Salvager in the trunk of our LAV, and then go and steel someone else' Harvester? Can we fit multiple Harvesters in a LAV? If they are so tough, will they survive a car crash or LAV blowing up? This could help to give vehicles a purpose... as in carrying our stuff. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8809	Posted - 2014.06.25 18:27:00 - [306] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Thought you might like to check out some early pics of the Harvester. Here you see it closed: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NebJcxw.jpg[/IMG] Here it's open and you can probably see why it's been nicknamed scorpion [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QsoeYTn.jpg[/IMG] Me like! But why do all of your creations have to be Caldari first? Do you have anything that's more Minmatar or Gallente? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:10:00 - [307] - Quote Ghural wrote: How do you think drones should behave? For example: a large aerial drone that slowly moves across the map searching for players. If it finds any it can deploy drones to the players location to attack them. You could even have another kind of large aerial drone that searches for salvage and deploys reclamation drones to pick it up. Clever players would learn to recognize these drones and follow them (possibly into a trap) I really like this idea. Paths. o-0-((~Hack a Salvage Drone and turn them on your enemies, then burn the enchanted forest down with it~))-0-o
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 314	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:30:00 - [308] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it. So the plan is for them to be mostly passive at any rate? What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own? Yes, although we've talked about the possibility of adding some built in defense to them. You can only carry one so if you want to steal you have to abandon yours. NOOoooo..... They look heavy, why not add to them cartridge, magazine, or something that is 1/10 size of harvester and it's carry all salvage - it is more practical. When real-life "salvager" finds refrigerator or stove on "salvage-site", he does not take all to scrap-shop, only parts that have a value. And I curries if the player will be informed by harvester about which at this moment was found by it. Whether the player will be able to move away from his harvester in order to find someones else harvester with better loot and then take steps in order to steal it.
Forlorn Destrier 2566	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:32:00 - [309] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. Will there be a direct correlation to what others have lost in these battles, or will these be random loot drops? Some would have to be random - to start. Eventually, I'd like a larger percentage to be what someone actually lost at some point in a real life battle. Adds context and immersion. Thoughts?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8811	Posted - 2014.06.26 05:05:00 - [310] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. Will there be a direct correlation to what others have lost in these battles, or will these be random loot drops? Some would have to be random - to start. Eventually, I'd like a larger percentage to be what someone actually lost at some point in a real life battle. Adds context and immersion. Thoughts? It will probably be NPC seeded for the short term until CCP figures out how to link the prior battles with the salvage sites. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11239	Posted - 2014.06.26 22:29:00 - [311] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Thought you might like to check out some early pics of the Harvester. Here you see it closed: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NebJcxw.jpg[/IMG] Here it's open and you can probably see why it's been nicknamed scorpion [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QsoeYTn.jpg[/IMG] Me like! But why do all of your creations have to be Caldari first? Do you have anything that's more Minmatar or Gallente? To be fair that looks more ORE than Caldari to me. Most industrial stuff is ORE.... I like this design. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Bat Shard0 Stardust Incorporation 63	Posted - 2014.06.26 23:20:00 - [312] - Quote One idea about harvesting. It hit me after I see harvester pic The idea is related to the co-op salvage/harvest. I dont know what is your actual idea how we'll find items for salvage - scan, visual discovery, metal detector(lol) or something else but it shall be nice if together with salvaged item there are some minerals that can be salvaged/stealed. Of course it shall need some kind of machinery. So... let say squad of 4 find a planet with items that can be harvest. They need a harvester. 2 options for that - mobile ground harvester and mobile air harvester. Ground one probably must be 4 time biggher than present HAV in DUST 514. With option to carry up to 6 ppl with option for 2 hardpoints for small turrets. So when the spot is located the harvester can be called and squad move to the place. When on the spot harvester go in harvest mode - something similar to Rorqual or carrier deployment mode in EVE - and its give him ability to start harvesting. To harvest minerals it need at least 2 people to operate. More people - faster harvesting. The cicles can be with 30sec intervals. The task for the rest of squad is to secure perimeter or probably look around for some salvage or other harvesting spots. That kind of play benefit squad play - that is why it need 2 ppl to operate. With huge cargo space succesfull operation shall give to players reward higher several times bigger than single player salvaging. During the harvesting process drones or other players can attack the harvester. The harvester should have huge hitpoints (similar to CRU in DUST) so deffender can easy decide to escape or stay if attackers dont have AV guns and DPS to overcome the local shield booster / armor repair (if fitted) and use mounted turret to deal with enemyes until stay safe(like in HAV). The attacking force must have option to destroy not the hole harvester, but only the harvesting module and mounted turrets, so if the deffenders want to stay need to go outside, fight and repair the harvesting module. The Air variant is controled similar to present dropships and do the same thing like ground harvester but it fly to the spot, land and then deploy. And can give access to spots that are unnacesible for ground harvester. I hope you like it http://dust514news.blogspot.com/

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3121	Posted - 2014.06.27 02:22:00 - [313] - Quote On correlation of salvage to gear lost in battle Step one is will be GÇÿrandomGÇÖ in that it will not be directly connected to what is dropped in a battle. However different places will yield different types of Salvage and different levels of quality. We think this is a good starting point, we want to keep things simple to start with and build on them. On time duration of the harvester animation? Time duration (of concept anim) is roughly 6 seconds to place and 6 seconds to pick up again. On leaving a harvester in a vehicle No, that is not currently possible. They are tough enough to survive a car crash (although there is a bug that makes them vanish if it happens right now!). On GÇÿwandering off' Yes you can leave your harvester harvesting and wander off to steal someone elseGÇÖs. On me being a troll Sorry Iron Wolf, could resist :-P

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 245	Posted - 2014.06.27 03:20:00 - [314] - Quote My main question regarding the "Salvage" is who is dropping it in the first place? Who is having the battles that we are cleaning up after? The one thing I really don't like about the Salvage concept, is that at the moment we seem to be playing the part of garbage collectors, rather than immortal mercenaries. The fact that the salvage is just 'there' seems like we are missing an opportunity for a cool bit of lore and a reason for the Legion mercs to exist. Maybe we are exploring remnants of sleeper facilities? Maybe the drone have been deployed by the sleepers whom are seeking revenge for the original theft of the techonology that created the Dust mercs.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11281	Posted - 2014.06.27 03:32:00 - [315] - Quote Ghural wrote: My main question regarding the "Salvage" is who is dropping it in the first place? Who is having the battles that we are cleaning up after? The one thing I really don't like about the Salvage concept, is that at the moment we seem to be playing the part of garbage collectors, rather than immortal mercenaries. The fact that the salvage is just 'there' seems like we are missing an opportunity for a cool bit of lore and a reason for the Legion mercs to exist. Maybe we are exploring remnants of sleeper facilities? Maybe the drone have been deployed by the sleepers whom are seeking revenge for the original theft of the techonology that created the Dust mercs. Perhaps our settings for salvage are orbital crash sites of bombed out refineries and PI installations? That could explain why CONCORD is likely to tolerate out presence in high sec and why we would go out to Low sec for salvage. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8812	Posted - 2014.06.27 04:26:00 - [316] - Quote Ghural wrote: My main question regarding the "Salvage" is who is dropping it in the first place? Who is having the battles that we are cleaning up after? The one thing I really don't like about the Salvage concept, is that at the moment we seem to be playing the part of garbage collectors, rather than immortal mercenaries. The fact that the salvage is just 'there' seems like we are missing an opportunity for a cool bit of lore and a reason for the Legion mercs to exist. Maybe we are exploring remnants of sleeper facilities? Maybe the drone have been deployed by the sleepers whom are seeking revenge for the original theft of the techonology that created the Dust mercs. It does seem that way, does it? But remember that we will also have the option of profiting from other means such as doing public matches and market trading. Trade will be a big thing for sure since the secondary market will be predominantly player-seeded. So I wouldn't need to go out and salvage for anyone or for myself if I can just buy out what you salvaged already and then turn it around to sell for a profit. The profit that I make from trade will then go towards supporting my battles and maybe even my corp. Of course, I will have to compete against other traders who are looking to do the same thing and undercut me. From the looks of it, there will be three kinds of PvP. Pub match PvP, ninja salvage PvP, and market PvP all on day one if CCP does it right. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6122	Posted - 2014.06.27 04:56:00 - [317] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: On GÇÿwandering off' Yes you can leave your harvester harvesting and wander off to steal someone elseGÇÖs. Can we get a variation with a small automated turret at the expense of salvage capacity? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1456	Posted - 2014.06.27 05:56:00 - [318] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: On GÇÿwandering off' Yes you can leave your harvester harvesting and wander off to steal someone elseGÇÖs. Can we get a variation with a small automated turret at the expense of salvage capacity? And one that uses said turret to remotely steal from other harvesters but is rather squishy? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 245	Posted - 2014.06.27 08:15:00 - [319] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: If CCP does it right. Oh dear
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15625	Posted - 2014.06.27 09:57:00 - [320] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: On correlation of salvage to gear lost in battle Step one is will be GÇÿrandomGÇÖ in that it will not be directly connected to what is dropped in a battle. However different places will yield different types of Salvage and different levels of quality. We think this is a good starting point, we want to keep things simple to start with and build on them. On time duration of the harvester animation? Time duration (of concept anim) is roughly 6 seconds to place and 6 seconds to pick up again. On leaving a harvester in a vehicle No, that is not currently possible. They are tough enough to survive a car crash (although there is a bug that makes them vanish if it happens right now!). On GÇÿwandering off' Yes you can leave your harvester harvesting and wander off to steal someone elseGÇÖs. On me being a troll Sorry Iron Wolf, could resist :-P <^-^> CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked

Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 907	Posted - 2014.06.27 19:43:00 - [321] - Quote And now time for a little lore... Just how did there come to be so much salvage in New Eden? The answer is simple. Classic case of overproduction based on massively over hyped projections that just didn't pan out. The Empires were hoping that with the rise of the cloned mercenary soldiers, they would ba able to make up some ground on the capsuleers. Factories and related facilities across Galletne, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar space ramped up production of armaments and marteriel for ground based warfare to what is generally referred to in the vernacular as "Triple A level." Both middle management and line workers, both free and enslaved were expected to stay laser focused maximizing throughput as they labored round the clock. Soon, profits would be rolling in. Expectations were that somewhere between 60 and 75 thousand cloned soldiers would be duking it out in battles from Jitta to Fountain, from Cloud Ring to the Drone Regions at any given time. On a daily basis. Sadly, as we here today know all too well, this never came to pass. So there are literally boat loads or weapons littered across the many systems of New Eden. For a while it was viable strategy to ground barges full of guns and tanks on planets in backwater systems in order to at least make back some of that lost time, effort, and ISK in insurance claims. Shipments were abandoned, hidden, lost, left in self storage units only to be auctioned off to sellers who found it more profitable to cut the cargo containers adrift rather than pay to ship those items anywhere they could be sold for pennies on the dollar. Deliveries were refused but by the time those shipments had reached production facilities that were rapidly winding down operations (to B even C levels, before shutting down entirely) those same facilities were already buried under uncounted piles of unmoved stock. Middle managers spent lonely hours contemplating the vagaries of capitalism, watched their life savings slowly erode while trying to scrape by on unemployment and tried to stave off misery and depression by tending tiny exotic trees said to be alien in origin though we all know there aren't any aliens in New Eden. Factory workers shipped out as maintenance crew on capsuleer starships and all but a lucky few died within a few weeks. Others can even today be seen wandering the streets of any major metropolis begging for tree fiddy. Long story short, there is a lot of salvage. And we, the new, new cloned soldiers of New Eden, are numerous, we are legion, like ants. Like ants, we are New Edens cleaners, heroic scavengers that are here to take out the trash and make up for the overly optimistic mistakes of yesterday. But no matter how many times we hoover up a particular stretch of rocky desert, there is always another scow filled with assault rifles or discarded cargo pod packed full of basic drop uplinks in a decaying orbit just about to burn through the atmosphere and crater into the exact spot you looted a few hours ago.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 315	Posted - 2014.06.28 02:01:00 - [322] - Quote Ghural wrote: My main question regarding the "Salvage" is who is dropping it in the first place? Who is having the battles that we are cleaning up after? The one thing I really don't like about the Salvage concept, is that at the moment we seem to be playing the part of garbage collectors, rather than immortal mercenaries. The fact that the salvage is just 'there' seems like we are missing an opportunity for a cool bit of lore and a reason for the Legion mercs to exist. Maybe we are exploring remnants of sleeper facilities? Maybe the drone have been deployed by the sleepers whom are seeking revenge for the original theft of the techonology that created the Dust mercs. First one was already answered - we will have randomly generated sites. But in future people that won a battle should have rights to salvage it, maybe with those who scanned it with help of capsulers(?!). Why salvage is there in first place - I think that today situation on battlefield have a little 'magic' in it, you can spawn, fight, die, chose any new suit, spawn and fight again. It not supposed to be like that, there should be some cap on items you can take on battlefield, pack in your MCC with your colleagues. There should be some limits on how much HAV you can take, and when your MCC blowup it should blowup really hard, with all assets that were in it. I love post-apocalyptic feeling when you have to fight with your own morality in order to survive . Salvage site will be soo awesome.. Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: On GÇÿwandering off' Yes you can leave your harvester harvesting and wander off to steal someone elseGÇÖs. Can we get a variation with a small automated turret at the expense of salvage capacity? I would prefer to see new proximity explosives for that special ocasion
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 382	Posted - 2014.06.28 21:24:00 - [323] - Quote Where's the said pics?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11322	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:19:00 - [324] - Quote I'm sorry to ask CCP Wolfman but why in Gods name do you have a Harvester Model and not an Amarr HAV model? " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8818	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:20:00 - [325] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Where's the said pics? Look back a couple of pages. Page 14 actually. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8818	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:22:00 - [326] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I'm sorry to ask CCP Wolfman but why in Gods name do you have a Harvester Model and not an Amarr HAV model? I don't think the Amarr would appreciate seeing their 'cleansing machine' being relegated to salvaging duties. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 382	Posted - 2014.06.29 08:24:00 - [327] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I'm sorry to ask CCP Wolfman but why in Gods name do you have a Harvester Model and not an Amarr HAV model? Hummm........ Something about getting basic gameplay down first...........
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11332	Posted - 2014.06.29 11:51:00 - [328] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm sorry to ask CCP Wolfman but why in Gods name do you have a Harvester Model and not an Amarr HAV model? Hummm........ Something about getting basic gameplay down first........... Are you saying not including 2 of the four most basic racial groups......not achieving racial parity and adding a superfluous game mode and mechanism is...."getting basic gameplay down"? " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Forlorn Destrier 2583	Posted - 2014.06.29 18:51:00 - [329] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm sorry to ask CCP Wolfman but why in Gods name do you have a Harvester Model and not an Amarr HAV model? Hummm........ Something about getting basic gameplay down first........... Are you saying not including 2 of the four most basic racial groups......not achieving racial parity and adding a superfluous game mode and mechanism is...."getting basic gameplay down"? I think the answer is that the Harvester is a mandatory compnent to the PVE element that is being designed. An Amarr (and Minmatar) HAV is not as critical to making the PVE work. Also, I politely point out (as you have done for others) that there are different teams that do different things. I don't know that CCP Wolfman's team is involved in vehicle design - they are doing the PVE development. We haven't been told what is happening in Legion vehicle wise yet. Besides, the HAV's you are referencing (the Caldari and Gallente) are Dust centric. Perhaps they haven't looked at vehicles yet for Legion - and have just ported over what they had so they can see how the mechanics of them work. We are years away from release on Legion (it's not even greenlit for heaven's sake - pun not intended friend Amarr) to be worrying about every nuance of the game. EDIT: long story short - wrong tread and wrong game to discuss racial parity - we don't know what vehicles will be in Legion, and this thread isn't here to discuss what we have in Dust.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11333	Posted - 2014.06.29 21:28:00 - [330] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: True Adamance wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm sorry to ask CCP Wolfman but why in Gods name do you have a Harvester Model and not an Amarr HAV model? Hummm........ Something about getting basic gameplay down first........... Are you saying not including 2 of the four most basic racial groups......not achieving racial parity and adding a superfluous game mode and mechanism is...."getting basic gameplay down"? I think the answer is that the Harvester is a mandatory compnent to the PVE element that is being designed. An Amarr (and Minmatar) HAV is not as critical to making the PVE work. Also, I politely point out (as you have done for others) that there are different teams that do different things. I don't know that CCP Wolfman's team is involved in vehicle design - they are doing the PVE development. We haven't been told what is happening in Legion vehicle wise yet. Besides, the HAV's you are referencing (the Caldari and Gallente) are Dust centric. Perhaps they haven't looked at vehicles yet for Legion - and have just ported over what they had so they can see how the mechanics of them work. We are years away from release on Legion (it's not even greenlit for heaven's sake - pun not intended friend Amarr) to be worrying about every nuance of the game. EDIT: long story short - wrong tread and wrong game to discuss racial parity - we don't know what vehicles will be in Legion, and this thread isn't here to discuss what we have in Dust. OKay and while that is wonderful it is crucial to core game balance and PvP....... but perhaps I am misinterpreting and am not aware CCP Wolfman is designing PVE content and no longer working on weapons and vehicles. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8676	Posted - 2014.07.01 06:52:00 - [331] - Quote I am going to side with True here and not because he is in my corp but because I agree. The requests for racial parity isn't so much about each race having something as much as it is each race's version works hand in hand with the balance of the whole. To have versions with high armor or high shield or high speed and such, have turrets designed for taking down either armor and shield and at different ranges. All of this is important in the creating the very basic and fundamental balancing act between all the vehicles. It certainly seems that CCP is really excited about a fresh start with Project Legion that they are getting carried away and adding superfluous mechanics opposed to working the core first. Salvaging is an absolute great idea and can become a really integral part of the entire Project Legion experience, but not for a second will I believe it is a higher priority than racial parity in vehicles. This is the same problem we saw exposed at Dust's Fanfest 2012 and Fanfest 2013 presentations where the developers clearly had their attention focused on all these really cool ideas to expand the experience while the current experience remained broken and incomplete. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 319	Posted - 2014.07.01 07:59:00 - [332] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I am going to side with True here and not because he is in my corp but because I agree. The requests for racial parity isn't so much about each race having something as much as it is each race's version works hand in hand with the balance of the whole. To have versions with high armor or high shield or high speed and such, have turrets designed for taking down either armor and shield and at different ranges. All of this is important in the creating the very basic and fundamental balancing act between all the vehicles. It certainly seems that CCP is really excited about a fresh start with Project Legion that they are getting carried away and adding superfluous mechanics opposed to working the core first. Salvaging is an absolute great idea and can become a really integral part of the entire Project Legion experience, but not for a second will I believe it is a higher priority than racial parity in vehicles. This is the same problem we saw exposed at Dust's Fanfest 2012 and Fanfest 2013 presentations where the developers clearly had their attention focused on all these really cool ideas to expand the experience while the current experience remained broken and incomplete. OK, but this is not right place for that. We all agree, launching new game without missing content is pointless(weapons, equipment, vehicles etc.). Try to understand that different 'parts' of the game are produce in their own way especially when it comes to art. If I would be on your place I would point that thing to CPM0, and CPM1 candidates. Nosum Hseebnrido
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11433	Posted - 2014.07.01 08:17:00 - [333] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I am going to side with True here and not because he is in my corp but because I agree. The requests for racial parity isn't so much about each race having something as much as it is each race's version works hand in hand with the balance of the whole. To have versions with high armor or high shield or high speed and such, have turrets designed for taking down either armor and shield and at different ranges. All of this is important in the creating the very basic and fundamental balancing act between all the vehicles. It certainly seems that CCP is really excited about a fresh start with Project Legion that they are getting carried away and adding superfluous mechanics opposed to working the core first. Salvaging is an absolute great idea and can become a really integral part of the entire Project Legion experience, but not for a second will I believe it is a higher priority than racial parity in vehicles. This is the same problem we saw exposed at Dust's Fanfest 2012 and Fanfest 2013 presentations where the developers clearly had their attention focused on all these really cool ideas to expand the experience while the current experience remained broken and incomplete. OK, but this is not right place for that. We all agree, launching new game without missing content is pointless(weapons, equipment, vehicles etc.). Try to understand that different 'parts' of the game are produce in their own way especially when it comes to art. If I would be on your place I would point that thing to CPM0, and CPM1 candidates. That doesn't change the fact they haven't finished the game we have now. Why are they starting on these higher goals when core gameplay is only half done? " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3130	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:12:00 - [334] - Quote Ok I want to go back to a topic weGÇÖve already chatted about a bit and share our current thinking on what weGÇÖre calling GÇÿsuspicion ratingGÇÖ in Salvage. A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥. There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags: Neutral GÇô white Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black) Suspect GÇô yellow Threat GÇô red All players start in the neutral state. If a player deals x damage to the same target within y seconds his/her rating becomes suspect. If a player kills another player his/her rating immediately becomes threat. A player in the neutral marked state has killed another player in the current session but has since returned to neutral. Neutral marked is functionally equivalent to neutral, but serves to indicate that the player has a history of violence. A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating is not reset at death. If a player has not damaged or killed another player for x seconds his/her state will degrade to the next lowest state (i.e. a player at GÇ£threatGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ and a player in GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£neutralGÇ¥). There should be two separate timers for threat-->suspect (default: 180 seconds) and suspect-->neutral marked (default: 90 seconds). We wanted to begin with a very simple system that could then be iterated on through play. We will be trying out a first version of this soon which only has neutral and threat. I would love to hear your thoughts

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11477	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:20:00 - [335] - Quote Does this tie in as an over head marker or is this tied or visible in a Local chat? " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3131	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:24:00 - [336] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Does this tie in as an over head marker or is this tied or visible in a Local chat? It uses the players tag, so yes over head marker. We could use it in chat as well potentially.

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 245	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:36:00 - [337] - Quote Why do we need a threat system at all? I much prefer the tense gameplay you get in games like DayZ where a players motivations aren't so blatantly telegraphed.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1459	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:38:00 - [338] - Quote Can a suspect become a thread without killing someone. After reaching a threshold of continuous damage for example? Will damaging/killing a suspect result in any criminal flags on me? Will squads share criminal flags? What if provide logistics support to the aggressor without dealing damage myself? Just throwing around things that will come up eventually here. I also like the idea of the "marked" status. How about separating the chevron into one smaller middle section indicating the highest criminal status during the current session and the outer section displaying the current one. That way you not only know of a player's criminal history but also the extend of which. You'd also avoid having to use black/white contrasts for a HUD element because very light/dark scenes will definitely cause issues to one of them. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11479	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:40:00 - [339] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Does this tie in as an over head marker or is this tied or visible in a Local chat? It uses the players tag, so yes over head marker. We could use it in chat as well potentially. As you say it could be a good indicator of what kind of player is present in any given district, region, etc.... perhaps its potentially better its stays linked to the player itself and allow for ambushes, ganks, betrayals.... " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6130	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:42:00 - [340] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Does this tie in as an over head marker or is this tied or visible in a Local chat? It uses the players tag, so yes over head marker. We could use it in chat as well potentially. Have you tried out some internal testing yet? If not, should probably consider a few things: a) Visual pollution; it's okay to have the marker visible but having 16 people all flashing red might be a bit annoying. b) Differentiation for squad members. If a guy is in my squad, I'm probably not too concerned about his security status and would prefer less reasons to off the guy since we're working together. Just the first tow things that came off the top of my head. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11483	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:49:00 - [341] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Does this tie in as an over head marker or is this tied or visible in a Local chat? It uses the players tag, so yes over head marker. We could use it in chat as well potentially. Have you tried out some internal testing yet? If not, should probably consider a few things: a) Visual pollution; it's okay to have the marker visible but having 16 people all flashing red might be a bit annoying. b) Differentiation for squad members. If a guy is in my squad, I'm probably not too concerned about his security status and would prefer less reasons to off the guy since we're working together. Just the first tow things that came off the top of my head. Perhaps once a target engages you the icon flashes eventually being replaced by the simple "Enemy" red arrow flag. The idea being that in the initial period of the engagement you are alerted as to what is happening and who is attacking after which time you are....sort of expected to know what to do....... " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 896	Posted - 2014.07.02 04:21:00 - [342] - Quote OK, this seems like it will work fine, since it's just a short-duration version of the Eve crime watch system. Will there be *long-term* repercussions for people who regularly kill other players, in contrast to this short-term flagging system? Dust/Eve transfers
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 410	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:06:00 - [343] - Quote What about retaliation? Someone shoots at me and becomes a threat, if I shoot back do I get marked too?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8830	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:10:00 - [344] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: What about retaliation? Someone shoots at me and becomes a threat, if I shoot back do I get marked too? That is a good question. Also, what about if I die as a result of the criminal's action against me. Do I get a kill right like how Eve Online players get when they lose a ship? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8830	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:13:00 - [345] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok I want to go back to a topic weGÇÖve already chatted about a bit and share our current thinking on what weGÇÖre calling GÇÿsuspicion ratingGÇÖ in Salvage. A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥. There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags: Neutral GÇô white Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black) Suspect GÇô yellow Threat GÇô red All players start in the neutral state. If a player deals x damage to the same target within y seconds his/her rating becomes suspect. If a player kills another player his/her rating immediately becomes threat. A player in the neutral marked state has killed another player in the current session but has since returned to neutral. Neutral marked is functionally equivalent to neutral, but serves to indicate that the player has a history of violence. A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating is not reset at death. If a player has not damaged or killed another player for x seconds his/her state will degrade to the next lowest state (i.e. a player at GÇ£threatGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ and a player in GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£neutralGÇ¥). There should be two separate timers for threat-->suspect (default: 180 seconds) and suspect-->neutral marked (default: 90 seconds). We wanted to begin with a very simple system that could then be iterated on through play. We will be trying out a first version of this soon which only has neutral and threat. I would love to hear your thoughts Looks pretty solid to me. But I like to make a suggestion. Give us the ability to manually change the colors of the flags. Some people here are color blind and won't be able to tell apart a red from a blue. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8690	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:26:00 - [346] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Garth Mandra wrote: What about retaliation? Someone shoots at me and becomes a threat, if I shoot back do I get marked too? That is a good question. Also, what about if I die as a result of the criminal's action against me. Do I get a kill right like how Eve Online players get when they lose a ship? This is already a big problem in Dust's FW, you have a friendly fire on you but you cannot return fire without risking getting banned as well. If another player engages you first, you should be allowed to retaliate without becoming suspect or threat yourself. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8830	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:27:00 - [347] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Garth Mandra wrote: What about retaliation? Someone shoots at me and becomes a threat, if I shoot back do I get marked too? That is a good question. Also, what about if I die as a result of the criminal's action against me. Do I get a kill right like how Eve Online players get when they lose a ship? This is already a big problem in Dust's FW, you have a friendly fire on you but you cannot return fire without risking getting banned as well. If another player engages you first, you should be allowed to retaliate without becoming suspect or threat yourself. Exactly. That's the beef I have right now with DUST's FW system. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 896	Posted - 2014.07.02 05:50:00 - [348] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: What about retaliation? Someone shoots at me and becomes a threat, if I shoot back do I get marked too? Perhaps Legion needs the 'limited engagement' concept from Eve, as well. Personally, this whole area of game mechanics is a solved puzzle, so just lift it wholesale from Eve so you can move onto actual problem. Dust/Eve transfers
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8830	Posted - 2014.07.02 06:26:00 - [349] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Garth Mandra wrote: What about retaliation? Someone shoots at me and becomes a threat, if I shoot back do I get marked too? Perhaps Legion needs the 'limited engagement' concept from Eve, as well. Personally, this whole area of game mechanics is a solved puzzle, so just lift it wholesale from Eve so you can move onto actual problem. That would be great except for one major problem. Eve Online uses point-to-point mechanics. This means that it's almost (if not completely) impossible to accidentally shoot a friendly. Key word being accidental. You have to really be going out of your way to betray someone in that game. Legion on the other hand is NOT a point-to-point game. This means you will accidentally shoot a friendly far more often than you realize. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 320	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:17:00 - [350] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I would love to hear your thoughts Witch-hunt. Since you are trying to implement eve mechanic to dust, I will try to present this dust mechanic in eve: Imagine that you are miner in empire(eve online), and you want to mine veldspar in peaceful area, so you warp(I mean appear suddenly) to first belt and see on it 6 neutrals, 2 yellow, 1red - and you think 'ow.. it's dangerous, I've never seen red colored chevron yet', and you choosing from neocom "leave battle"(2 second later you are in your Mercenary Quarter) and you are willing to search for another match, but this time without yellow or red chevrons - no one disallow you to do that, you can search for perfect condition as long as you have patience, and sooner or later you will succeed. It's like giving eve player spec-camera, so he no longer have to risk jumping from highsec to lowsec, he can send invisable camera and decide if he should do it, or not, and if somehow he will make mistake he can always choose switch expensive ship to cheapest one. There's plenty things in eve that promise you safty, like scanning gate that you are about to use, warping on 100k, and dozens of other things before actual engagement take place, but all of them consume some time. If you jump to system with red-gang in it, you can not solve your problem in 2 sec - in dust you can always do that. I have a feeling that proposed mechanic is one sided, just to make carebears happy. It always seemed to me that FPS is about killing other players, maybe I was wrong.. Nosum Hseebnrido


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3134	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:22:00 - [351] - Quote if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral.

Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1429	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:38:00 - [352] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threads. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1430	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:05:00 - [353] - Quote Ghural wrote: Why do we need a threat system at all? I much prefer the tense gameplay you get in games like DayZ where a players motivations aren't so blatantly telegraphed. First the obligatory cocky answer... this ain't DayZ. Now, the more considered answer. I love DayZ, it's one of the most emotional and intense gaming experiances I've had in over three decades of gaming. But part of that is the slow build up of tension as your carefully make your way in a vast map, looking around every corner and considering risk v reward. But the foundation of that tension is the fact you have one life. In legion you are immortal and return with the same gear you had when you died. Also DayZ while technically an FPS game isn't a twitch game style of play. Repeatedly being killed by an unknown threat in quick succession in Legion would be a real turn off for new players and we need to encourage as much new player retention as is possible in Legion. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3212	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:24:00 - [354] - Quote I like the idea earlier of player police :-P if a player is marked as a threat and you take him out you get a boost to standing eventually going green or somthing. Because to be down right honest if there was a bounty hunter system in place i would 100% do that all the time. So im happy to settle on just making salavage sites safe You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3137	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:40:00 - [355] - Quote Saw some questions about squads, this is how we're thinking... Players do not change state by damaging or killing squad members. It is up to the squad to manage itself and eject anyone causing trouble for the squad. All members of a squad will have a suspicion rating equivalent to the highest state of any member. That is to say, if any member is GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ or GÇ£threatGÇ¥ then all members are shown as such. Squad matesGÇÖ tags remain half-green and the other half is the color representing the squadGÇÖs current state. Upon leaving a squad, the player inherits whatever state he/she had while in the squad.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 310	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:44:00 - [356] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok I want to go back to a topic weGÇÖve already chatted about a bit and share our current thinking on what weGÇÖre calling GÇÿsuspicion ratingGÇÖ in Salvage. A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥. There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags: Neutral GÇô white Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black) Suspect GÇô yellow Threat GÇô red All players start in the neutral state. If a player deals x damage to the same target within y seconds his/her rating becomes suspect. If a player kills another player his/her rating immediately becomes threat. A player in the neutral marked state has killed another player in the current session but has since returned to neutral. Neutral marked is functionally equivalent to neutral, but serves to indicate that the player has a history of violence. A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating is not reset at death. If a player has not damaged or killed another player for x seconds his/her state will degrade to the next lowest state (i.e. a player at GÇ£threatGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ and a player in GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£neutralGÇ¥). There should be two separate timers for threat-->suspect (default: 180 seconds) and suspect-->neutral marked (default: 90 seconds). We wanted to begin with a very simple system that could then be iterated on through play. We will be trying out a first version of this soon which only has neutral and threat. I would love to hear your thoughts Did I mention I love you? +1000 (if I could) Will there be some GUI information for the players so he knows how long time he/she will be in a certain level? (Perhaps using the eve crimewatch countdown timers like I proposed in this thread?)
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 311	Posted - 2014.07.02 09:55:00 - [357] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel. You don't want to make it too lucrative (if at all). I can see grefing in the form of people with little or no health deliberately walking in front of blueberries to get killed. Only to return within the 3min duration and kill them with impunity. Since the flags don't reset after respawn, the poor sod will get spawn killed without consequences until the timer runs out. This WILL happen even if there is no "reward" in killing threats, and will happen exponentially more often if there is. That is why I proposed a partial timer which takes the percentage of the EHP taken. So if you accidentally killing a player by taking his last 2HP, you will get flagged but not for long.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3138	Posted - 2014.07.02 10:05:00 - [358] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel. I had a little think about this and I'd be interested in putting a reward of that type in the hands of the players. For example at the end of or during a session you could gift people with stuff. Thanks Mr Policeman! That in turn could end up creating a lot more possible roles and could be done on an ad-hoc basis managed by players without the need for us to create specific game systems to support it.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 896	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:16:00 - [359] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I had a little think about this and I'd be interested in putting a reward of that type in the hands of the players. For example at the end of or during a session you could gift people with stuff. Thanks Mr Policeman! That in turn could end up creating a lot more possible roles and could be done on an ad-hoc basis managed by players without the need for us to create specific game systems to support it. Could also lead to protection rackets... Could we just institute Eve's bounty system and remove the manual step of tracking down the beneficiaries? Dust/Eve transfers
Oceltot Mortalis 16	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:38:00 - [360] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags: Neutral GÇô white Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black) Suspect GÇô yellow Threat GÇô red What about War Targets?!?!? Legion War thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=166873&find=unread In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6134	Posted - 2014.07.02 14:27:00 - [361] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel. I had a little think about this and I'd be interested in putting a reward of that type in the hands of the players. For example at the end of or during a session you could gift people with stuff. Thanks Mr Policeman! That in turn could end up creating a lot more possible roles and could be done on an ad-hoc basis managed by players without the need for us to create specific game systems to support it. Could also lead to protection rackets... Could, but probably won't xD Lot of people expected that Eve Online's new bounty system -could- allow for that same behavior but it's either not happening or simply isn't heard of. Kinda hard to set that sort of thing up in the middle of the battle and there's nothing stopping the potential victim of a 'protection racket' from just going back to high-sec. Kind of difficult to get that sort of behavior down so that it's not just allowed, but encouraged. About the squad thing. At the same time, I can already think of a way that I, personally, would circumvent the entire system; by just not squading up with my corp mates for the same effect. A little bit of communication and I can jump into the match as a squad, disband it, and then just run with a burner voice channel. Give two guys the role of 'enforcer' and the rest just focus on the harvesting - all of a sudden the guilt by association part of the squad-play is completely nyxxed as there is no squad to associate the guilt to. That being said, if it's something you're married to, I say go ahead and work with it... but if it's easily circumvented then there's probably not much sense in investing resources into it. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 311	Posted - 2014.07.02 15:04:00 - [362] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel. I had a little think about this and I'd be interested in putting a reward of that type in the hands of the players. For example at the end of or during a session you could gift people with stuff. Thanks Mr Policeman! That in turn could end up creating a lot more possible roles and could be done on an ad-hoc basis managed by players without the need for us to create specific game systems to support it. Could also lead to protection rackets... Could, but probably won't xD Lot of people expected that Eve Online's new bounty system -could- allow for that same behavior but it's either not happening or simply isn't heard of. Kinda hard to set that sort of thing up in the middle of the battle and there's nothing stopping the potential victim of a 'protection racket' from just going back to high-sec. Kind of difficult to get that sort of behavior down so that it's not just allowed, but encouraged. About the squad thing. At the same time, I can already think of a way that I, personally, would circumvent the entire system; by just not squading up with my corp mates for the same effect. A little bit of communication and I can jump into the match as a squad, disband it, and then just run with a burner voice channel. Give two guys the role of 'enforcer' and the rest just focus on the harvesting - all of a sudden the guilt by association part of the squad-play is completely nyxxed as there is no squad to associate the guilt to. That being said, if it's something you're married to, I say go ahead and work with it... but if it's easily circumvented then there's probably not much sense in investing resources into it. There should be other benefits of remaining in a squad other that sharing voice channel, which can be (like you say) easily set-up separate from the squad. What this can be, the sky is the limit. Also, in your example with two enforcers, these are the guys that are a potential "threat" to other players, and will get tagged appropriately. The remaining harvester guys are possibly not a threat, so why should they get tagged? Of course, they can swap role every 3min, but overall I don't see the problem. If a squad is working together (as a squad), they should share the status (as suggested). I would also propose that any FF during being repped by a logi, the logi would also share the status regardless of squad belonging.
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 8	Posted - 2014.07.02 15:35:00 - [363] - Quote What about drop ships- can they play a roll in these PvE areas for transportation? ATC
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 311	Posted - 2014.07.02 16:09:00 - [364] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Lots of very good stuff The only problem I can see with the proposed system is the two edge cases that I tried to address in my suggestion. Deliberate vs accidental kill: Since the timer always starts from full there is no difference in consequence if a player reduces another players health from 100% -> 0% (deliberate) or 1% -> 0% (accidental). Both players need to wait 180s + 90s to go down to neutral. This can (and will) be abused by griefers. Non killing griefing: If I understand it correctly, if I don't kill anybody (only damage) I never go to "threat" level. This would mean I could deliberately (and continually) damage other players so they easily die by NPC (or other players), which can never retaliate since I am only a "suspect". Expect a lot of this as well. With a incremental timer, these would not be an issue.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2040	Posted - 2014.07.02 16:18:00 - [365] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Q: What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? A: That's up to the visitors to decide. If they want to greet with bullets, then I would like to say "hi" as well in kind. Of course, the security status of the system you're in should play a role in this. This could also be a chance to encourage team play if players want better returns in their investment (those salvage tools will cost ISK after all). Q: How do you think drones should behave? A: Honestly I would say borrow from the null-sec AI or sleeper AI since those provide a challenge in Eve. Of course, how prevalent they are should also depend on the sec status of the system. One interesting thing I like to see is a chance to go after drone hives in an attempt to salvage even better loot but that should likely require actual teamwork just like how Eve players handle Incursions using public fleets like The Ditanian Fleet. I also think that sec status of the system should play a part in determining "acceptable behavior" as well as AI behavior. Though I also think that sec status should vary on a District by District basis within an acceptable variance of 2. If the System Sec Status is 0.8, any Districts within said System could be of Sec Status 0.6-1.0; if the System Sec Status is 0.4, any Districts within said System could be of Sec Status 0.2-0.6. In a perfect world, the Sec Status of all Districts in the System would average out to the Sec Status of the System. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 311	Posted - 2014.07.02 16:34:00 - [366] - Quote I thought of another one. Will the timers reset upon going back to merc quaters, including the neutral-marked status? If so, it would be a problem if it takes less time than 270 seconds to redeploy. (Not that I'm asking for longer deploy times ) It would be cool if there was some penalty of disconnecting / returning to merc quarters while having "threat" status (like EVE). For example, if you going for the concept of only deploying with a limited number of clones, all of those are lost if you choose to leave while "red flagged".
Severus Smith Caldari State 548	Posted - 2014.07.02 17:10:00 - [367] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Saw some questions about squads, this is how we're thinking... Players do not change state by damaging or killing squad members. It is up to the squad to manage itself and eject anyone causing trouble for the squad. All members of a squad will have a suspicion rating equivalent to the highest state of any member. That is to say, if any member is GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ or GÇ£threatGÇ¥ then all members are shown as such. Squad matesGÇÖ tags remain half-green and the other half is the color representing the squadGÇÖs current state. Upon leaving a squad, the player inherits whatever state he/she had while in the squad. Problem with this. If friendly fire is always on and a squads only defense is policing itself then you're setting yourself up for a HUGE problem. This limits squads to groups of friends / corporations only and completely leaves out new players / less connected players. EVE is a perfect example. How many people mission in "pug" groups? None. it is basically unheard of because once your in a fleet with a stranger they can shoot you with little to no consequence. The only activity resembling a "pug" PVE thing is Incursions; which require ships costing billions of ISK, characters with years of SP, and are policed by OCD fleet commanders with global blacklists. DUST / Legion needs a way for random players to join together without the paranoia that at any moment Squad Member X is going to kill everyone and run with the loot. This will help form a community, get players into corporations, and increase retention. I brought up this in an earlier post as a possible solution. It ensures that there is a small level of trust. That if Squad Member X decides to betray the squad he has to remove his IFF module first, thus showing as hostile and giving the squad some warning. On topic: The threat levels are good. The only suggestion I would have is lengthening the "threat" timer when shown to victims. If Merc X kills me, I want to know he's a threat for far longer than 3 minutes. Maybe make the "enemy" flag where they show up red last for 30 minutes. That way if I get killed I can track that person down.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8832	Posted - 2014.07.02 18:16:00 - [368] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: I thought of another one. Will the timers reset upon going back to merc quaters, including the neutral-marked status? If so, it would be a problem if it takes less time than 270 seconds to redeploy. (Not that I'm asking for longer deploy times ) It would be cool if there was some penalty of disconnecting / returning to merc quarters while having "threat" status (like EVE). For example, if you going for the concept of only deploying with a limited number of clones, all of those are lost if you choose to leave while "red flagged". The thing with Eve Online, and this is a good "thing" that Eve has, is that it has a "LOG OFF TIMER" after a player has been involved in a recent aggression. The LOG OFF TIMER lasts about 5 minutes if the aggression involved only an NPC or a suspect act while it increases to 15 minutes if the aggression involved direct PvP with another player. If the player logs off or disconnects during this timer, the ship and its pod will warp out to a safe spot BUT WON'T DISAPPEAR from the system until the timer has worn off EVEN IF the player controlling the ship is no longer connected to it. And since the ship and pod won't cloak, the opponent can still chase him down if he happens to have combat scanners or has a buddy that carries combat scanners so long as the opponent can find him in the allotted time provided by the LOG OFF TIMER. This system didn't exist until the latter half of Eve Online's existence. It was implemented to address the annoying LOGOFFSKI tactic that risk-adversed players would resort to when they realize that a combat situation is not going their way. This system should be implemented into Legion as well. But considering that Legion is a FPS game, the timers will need to be adjusted to better suit the genre and gameplay for the sake of balance. Also, since Legion is a FPS game, mercs would obviously NOT be able to warp off to a safe spot if they disconnect. Their clone will just sit there until it is destroyed. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 320	Posted - 2014.07.02 20:30:00 - [369] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥. There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags: Neutral GÇô white Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black) Suspect GÇô yellow Threat GÇô red CCP Wolfman wrote: What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage? Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting. Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all. I'm trying to connect both things. So since there's no teams, just squads, players will see my red chevron only if I will appear on they LOS, or they will scan me down with scanner? Is it right? Nosum Hseebnrido
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8692	Posted - 2014.07.02 21:41:00 - [370] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel. I had a little think about this and I'd be interested in putting a reward of that type in the hands of the players. For example at the end of or during a session you could gift people with stuff. Thanks Mr Policeman! That in turn could end up creating a lot more possible roles and could be done on an ad-hoc basis managed by players without the need for us to create specific game systems to support it. Could also lead to protection rackets... Hardly anyone would gift players for protecting them after the fact. It has to be before, have players set an amount of ISK for neutrals who kill a threat within a certain radius of them. Of course that requires creating a specific game system to support it but it is still all entirely managed by the players. Again, hardly anyone would be willing to part with ISK or items AFTER THE FACT. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 245	Posted - 2014.07.03 00:19:00 - [371] - Quote If we go down the line of being able to put bounties on enemy players. It would be cool if EVE players could get some of those bounties if they kill them via orbital bombardment.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 897	Posted - 2014.07.03 00:26:00 - [372] - Quote Ghural wrote: If we go down the line of being able to put bounties on enemy players. It would be cool if EVE players could get some of those bounties if they kill them via orbital bombardment. Assuming economic interaction between Legion and Eve, then definitely. Dust/Eve transfers

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3146	Posted - 2014.07.03 01:42:00 - [373] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Lots of very good stuff The only problem I can see with the proposed system is the two edge cases that I tried to address in my suggestion. Deliberate vs accidental kill: Since the timer always starts from full there is no difference in consequence if a player reduces another players health from 100% -> 0% (deliberate) or 1% -> 0% (accidental). Both players need to wait 180s + 90s to go down to neutral. This can (and will) be abused by griefers. Non killing griefing: If I understand it correctly, if I don't kill anybody (only damage) I never go to "threat" level. This would mean I could deliberately (and continually) damage other players so they easily die by NPC (or other players), which can never retaliate since I am only a "suspect". Expect a lot of this as well. With a incremental timer, these would not be an issue. We should be testing our first version which is very binary (youGÇÖre either neutral or a threat) next week. We have some really rather dedicated griefers on the team so weGÇÖll give them a mandate to f***k with people as much as humanly possible once itGÇÖs in. Then we can iterate based on experience as well as theory. IGÇÖm not dismissing this as an issue, it is a very valid concern and something we will be paying attention to.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3146	Posted - 2014.07.03 01:45:00 - [374] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥. There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags: Neutral GÇô white Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black) Suspect GÇô yellow Threat GÇô red CCP Wolfman wrote: What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage? Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting. Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all. I'm trying to connect both things. So since there's no teams, just squads, players will see my red chevron only if I will appear on they LOS, or they will scan me down with scanner? Is it right? That is correct. They work just like regular tags for a member of the enemy team now.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3146	Posted - 2014.07.03 01:54:00 - [375] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Saw some questions about squads, this is how we're thinking... Players do not change state by damaging or killing squad members. It is up to the squad to manage itself and eject anyone causing trouble for the squad. All members of a squad will have a suspicion rating equivalent to the highest state of any member. That is to say, if any member is GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ or GÇ£threatGÇ¥ then all members are shown as such. Squad matesGÇÖ tags remain half-green and the other half is the color representing the squadGÇÖs current state. Upon leaving a squad, the player inherits whatever state he/she had while in the squad. Problem with this. If friendly fire is always on and a squads only defense is policing itself then you're setting yourself up for a HUGE problem. This limits squads to groups of friends / corporations only and completely leaves out new players / less connected players. EVE is a perfect example. How many people mission in "pug" groups? None. it is basically unheard of because once your in a fleet with a stranger they can shoot you with little to no consequence. The only activity resembling a "pug" PVE thing is Incursions; which require ships costing billions of ISK, characters with years of SP, and are policed by OCD fleet commanders with global blacklists. DUST / Legion needs a way for random players to join together without the paranoia that at any moment Squad Member X is going to kill everyone and run with the loot. This will help form a community, get players into corporations, and increase retention. I brought up this in an earlier post as a possible solution. It ensures that there is a small level of trust. That if Squad Member X decides to betray the squad he has to remove his IFF module first, thus showing as hostile and giving the squad some warning. On topic: The threat levels are good. The only suggestion I would have is lengthening the "threat" timer when shown to victims. If Merc X kills me, I want to know he's a threat for far longer than 3 minutes. Maybe make the "enemy" flag where they show up red last for 30 minutes. That way if I get killed I can track that person down. Don't forget, currently our intention is still that high sec is FF off. So for the new players learning the ropes they don't have to worry about being ganked by squad mates and can meet other players to group up with before they venture in to the wild. Personally whilst I don't think the IFF module is a bad idea, I prefer a reactive system over a proactive one in this case because of the uncertainty it creates. I think it's a shame to lose that aspect of play by telegraphing peoples intentions.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11524	Posted - 2014.07.03 02:08:00 - [376] - Quote Will we be able to set standings , or are standings or miltia status planned to play into this somehow. While a corporation may not have attacked us directly, but we know they are aligned against us (forum smack talk, PC war, FW miltias) will these things be visible in a similar manner. While I am aware that Aeon did speak about visual pollution I cannot help but wonder if these indicators cannot be extended to other aspects of gameplay. E.G- Aero Yassavi goes out on patrol looking for some loot in Arzad, he takes two buddies with him. However New Age Outlaws also is in Arzad looting ISKies and preparing another dastardly attack on our glorious Empire. They are set to 2.0 Standing (orange) Both parties come across one another at a Drone Salvage site (lets assume that neither party has killed another player) will they have a visual indicator denoting their standing or militia status? *"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 897	Posted - 2014.07.03 02:29:00 - [377] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Personally whilst I don't think the IFF module is a bad idea, I prefer a reactive system over a proactive one in this case because of the uncertainty it creates. I think it's a shame to lose that aspect of play by telegraphing peoples intentions. Agree with reactive intel system rather than proactive system (would prefer proactive for actions, ala safety system) Note, however, that there's a difference between 'telegraphing intentions' and 'telegraphing past history'. Dust/Eve transfers
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 320	Posted - 2014.07.03 06:56:00 - [378] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Hardly anyone would gift players for protecting them after the fact. It has to be before, have players set an amount of ISK for neutrals who kill a threat within a certain radius of them. Of course that requires creating a specific game system to support it but it is still all entirely managed by the players. Again, hardly anyone would be willing to part with ISK or items AFTER THE FACT. I would. If I had track of what really happened, today it's very hard for me to remember nick-name guy who resurrected my with militia nanite injector just to let me die again. It's worth to 'catch' those who value other interest because they are perfect future recruit of your corporation. So if we will have in Legion tools to track someone efforts on field, reward him it's definitely something good for us all. And it will be fun if we will be able to find those mNI ***** as well :) CCP Wolfman wrote:** That is correct. They work just like regular tags for a member of the enemy team now. Sir, you have my apology for being grouch in 'witch-hunt' post. Nosum Hseebnrido
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 719	Posted - 2014.07.03 07:42:00 - [379] - Quote I have another idea which I haven't see posted, I understand wanting friendly fire off in high-sec, it helps the new players. However like in EvE theres a risk of creating carebears, people who never leave high-sec because their to scared about getting shot. Or players who try it once and because it's to much of a change, (they don't like change) and don't try it again. What if you make the damage incremental? For example: High-Sec 1.0 - 00% FF Damage 0.9 - 10% FF Damage 0.8 - 20% FF Damage 0.7 - 30% FF Damage 0.6 - 40% FF Damage 0.5 - 50% FF Damage Low-Sec 0.4 - *100% FF Damage* This way it gets players used to FF without actually putting them in a large amount of danger. It may also be a good idea to introduce Concord 'snipers', that after a timer will execute the clone committing the dastardly deed. Define Dastardly Deed - A player who has aggression towards another player for a distinct amount of time (concentrated fire). - A player who deals 'X%' amount of damage (20% of suit health) Keep in mind that because of the damage reduction much harder to do in high-sec. This idea still leaves room for griefers and it gives the newberrys safe haven. But it gets them ready for the rest of the game which they can still turn down if they wish, but are far less likely to do. What do you think eh? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3150	Posted - 2014.07.03 07:58:00 - [380] - Quote the thing that I don't quite like about varying FF damage is that it makes the weapons feel very weak.


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 898	Posted - 2014.07.03 09:26:00 - [381] - Quote Better to just disable your weapon after a certain amount of time in high sec, if you deliberately damage a non-threat (which you have a safety setting to enable or disable, otherwise friendly fire is off) 1.0: 0.5 seconds 0.9: 1.0 seconds 0.8: 1.5 seconds 0.7: 2.0 seconds 0.6: 3.5 seconds 0.5: 5.0 seconds After that, if you actually damaged someone (rather than just equipment) then your clone is terminated and you drop a little pile of salvage. Dust/Eve transfers
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3213	Posted - 2014.07.03 09:31:00 - [382] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: the thing that I don't quite like about varying FF damage is that it makes the weapons feel very weak. Nothing quite makes a gun feel as badass than accidently blowing your best friends in one shot. :-P You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 898	Posted - 2014.07.03 09:34:00 - [383] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Nothing quite makes a gun feel as badass than accidently blowing your best friends in one shot. :-P Phrasing! Dust/Eve transfers
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3213	Posted - 2014.07.03 10:20:00 - [384] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Nothing quite makes a gun feel as badass than accidently blowing your best friends in one shot. :-P Phrasing! Ahahahaha i forgot the word head but i doubt that would make it any better :-P You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 246	Posted - 2014.07.03 11:49:00 - [385] - Quote What if a certain amount of FF damage causes a concord drone to spawn and destroy the player.?
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.03 11:56:00 - [386] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: the thing that I don't quite like about varying FF damage is that it makes the weapons feel very weak. I agree, weapons needs to do consistent damage when FF is ON. However, I also agree with Syever that FF OFF in highsec can give unwanted consequences. Carebears are one thing, but they will always exist to some degree. Teaching bad gunplay and unawareness is another thing, which makes players unprepared to go to lower security systems. This coupled with the sudden shock of going from FF OFF to ON, can make people turn away. Basically, given the only "consequence" of being able to fire on a "threat" player without taking any penalty, there will be only two "security levels" in Legion that I know of: High sec \| Null Sec Sure, there are still security levels from 1.0 - 0.0, and the lower you go the more difficult the drones becomes and you find rarer the loot, but PVP wise they will be exactly the same (apart from High Sec). There need to be some other consequences based on player action that vary with security level, if it supposed to be meaningful. Question to all: what do you think appropriate consequences for player action are, and how would it be tracked by the game? My suggestion: - Personal security status from 2.0-0.0, where players start at 1.0 (neutral). Every time you go to "threat" level by killing another player you will decrease your status with initially 0.1 steps, but the lower your initial security status, the smaller the impact becomes (so starting from neutral and killing one person you will have 0.9, but a 0.2 player doing the same might only get 0.02 decrease). You can only deploy to districts with security status equal or lower than your own, so for the new player it might be 0.9-0.0 and for the professional griefer 0.2-0.0. Of course there should be ways to increase your status (missions?), and both high and low security status might get you other benefits. Please note that I'm not really fond of the idea of locking players out from certain areas, but I have problems to find other solutions. Thoughts?
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6138	Posted - 2014.07.03 12:44:00 - [387] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Also, in your example with two enforcers, these are the guys that are a potential "threat" to other players, and will get tagged appropriately. The remaining harvester guys are possibly not a threat, so why should they get tagged? Of course, they can swap role every 3min, but overall I don't see the problem. If a squad is working together (as a squad), they should share the status (as suggested). I would also propose that any FF during being repped by a logi, the logi would also share the status regardless of squad belonging. [/quote] I don't really understand what you're conveying here, could you possibly re-word it? If the two guys playing Enforcer aren't in the squad with the Harvester guys, the harvesters wouldn't get tagged unless they were in a squad. At least, that's based on my assumption of how Wolfman's proposed system would work. So it'd be more beneficial to -not- run a squad to save the harvester guys the guilt by association and just divvy up the rewards later on unless some other means is implemented. I wasn't suggesting that they get tagged outside of the squad, I was saying that, if this system is implemented as it's proposed - that's how I, personally, would abuse it. As far as the Logi repping guilt-by-association, have to be very careful with that because there's a good chance that you ostracize Logistics from the Salvage Field entirely; it already looks as though there are dropsuits better geared toward the Salvage Field meta but having too strong a punishment toward Logistics for playing their Saintly role could very well discourage their use altogether. To elaborate, combat in Dust 514 / Legion is presumably slower paced than other FPS games - so there's no reason that the tag should change on the Logi instantly, perhaps after the player outright kills the other player should the Logistics get a suspect tag? Sort of a trickle down effect? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.03 14:13:00 - [388] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I don't really understand what you're conveying here, could you possibly re-word it? Sorry if I was vague in my statement I see the proposed system as primarily information sharing of potential intent, for the benefit of other players. There are no real consequences attached to it (at the moment). It does not matter if the harvesters get tagged or not, since they really do not pose a threat to other players, the enforcers do. And they will get tagged in both cases (squad or not). So if you feel running separate (not in a squad), please do so. The important thing is that players that do present a threat to other players gets tagged.
Severus Smith Caldari State 548	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:30:00 - [389] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Personally whilst I don't think the IFF module is a bad idea, I prefer a reactive system over a proactive one in this case because of the uncertainty it creates. I think it's a shame to lose that aspect of play by telegraphing peoples intentions. One final point, then I'll concede. How is the IFF "proactive" rather than "reactive" and if so, why is this bad for progression..? In scenario A (without an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly Squad Member X lobs a grenade and ARs you in the head. Due to the low TTK and the utter surprise you die pretty much instantly without any chance to retaliate. Maybe the other 4 squad members take him down, but with a well placed grenade and an AR by the time they realize what has happened to you they're also probably dead. This isn't fun. In scenario B (with an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly the message "Squad Member X has removed his IFF module" pops up on the screen and you spin around just in time to see him throw a grenade. Maybe you still die (like above) but at least you had a chance rather than just being gunned down in the back with no contest. This is more fun. To me, they are both reactive. One just alerts you, giving you 1 - 2 seconds to react, while the other happens instantly. That was the benefit of the IFF when I imagined it. In Highsec FF is always off (as your already doing). In Lowsec the IFF must be disabled (thus giving an alert to your intentions). And in Nullsec the IFF is always disabled, thus allowing FF killing anywhere anytime. To me this was a logical progression. You start in safety, then move to an alerting system, then finish with no safety. The risk is offset by the rewards. Without a system like this then your "carebear" players will never leave Highsec. Just like in EVE, a one jump difference goes from relative safety to utterly deadly. There isn't a stepping stone. And while many people will go "this is needed" I disagree. EVE has a large problem with incensing players to move from Highsec to Low to Null. Why? Because dropping from 0.5 to 0.4 means you will lose what your flying. CONCORD doesn't give a **** and gate guns wont save you. You don't want that in DUST / Legion. You want new / carebear players to want to adventure out into Lowsec. There should still be danger, but it is mitigated by something like the IFF where instead of dying instantly to a turncloak or ganker they have a chance to react and survive. 1 - 2 seconds, that's all. Then, when they eventually move to Null, they can deal with the "reactive" situations of FF being always on and having to worry about instantly dying to betrayals. You need steps. Not a cliff.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 720	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:01:00 - [390] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Better to just disable your weapon after a certain amount of time in high sec, if you deliberately damage a non-threat (which you have a safety setting to enable or disable, otherwise friendly fire is off) 1.0: 0.5 seconds 0.9: 1.0 seconds 0.8: 1.5 seconds 0.7: 2.0 seconds 0.6: 3.5 seconds 0.5: 5.0 seconds After that, if you actually damaged someone (rather than just equipment) then your clone is terminated and you drop a little pile of salvage. This is a good iteration! Could see this being easier to implement than my idea too. But what about the high damage weapons such as snipers and forges? I can see them being difficult to control under this rule. Maybe a way to combine the two? Ghural wrote: What if a certain amount of FF damage causes a concord drone to spawn and destroy the player.? I like! Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application

Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1463	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:52:00 - [391] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Better to just disable your weapon after a certain amount of time in high sec, if you deliberately damage a non-threat (which you have a safety setting to enable or disable, otherwise friendly fire is off) 1.0: 0.5 seconds 0.9: 1.0 seconds 0.8: 1.5 seconds 0.7: 2.0 seconds 0.6: 3.5 seconds 0.5: 5.0 seconds After that, if you actually damaged someone (rather than just equipment) then your clone is terminated and you drop a little pile of salvage. This will only work on low alpha weaponry. A cloaky shotgunner can one-shot just about everyone, cloak, and wait for the cooldown to expire for the next hit. Same with FGs, snipers, PLCs, REs and, to a lesser extent, fully charged SCRs. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Emo Skellington The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 87	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:55:00 - [392] - Quote Maybe what we could do is make like a low sec mining operation. The drones that come out and "loot" will be the npcs of the faction in that system "blood raiders guristas. etc.. These drones will attack you making the salvaging into a pve session while looking for look. You should be able to choose the security system to go into and depending which you schoose depends on the suits and the gear that these npcs have (just like in EVE) Lower security means the harder it will be to kill the more the more difficul I definitley want to see proto suits with proto gear and a decent difficulty in their tactics in 0.1 and into null sec Salvage rates and the rarity should be determined in the security its found also Proto and salvage only gear should be found in low sec with higher drops rates the lower the security. Supporter of Legion Supporter of Valkyrie Supporter/Fan of Eve
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1463	Posted - 2014.07.03 17:01:00 - [393] - Quote Emo Skellington wrote: Maybe what we could do is make like a low sec mining operation. The drones that come out and "loot" will be the npcs of the faction in that system "blood raiders guristas. etc.. These drones will attack you making the salvaging into a pve session while looking for look. You should be able to choose the security system to go into and depending which you schoose depends on the suits and the gear that these npcs have (just like in EVE) Lower security means the harder it will be to kill the more the more difficul I definitley want to see proto suits with proto gear and a decent difficulty in their tactics in 0.1 and into null sec Salvage rates and the rarity should be determined in the security its found also Proto and salvage only gear should be found in low sec with higher drops rates the lower the security. Sounds like the blueprint for NPC combat missions. Go there -> kill pirates -> receive bounties/loot. While not horribly creative, this would be a good way for players who don't quite care for the whole mining aspect of the sandbox. The question is. Can I side with the pirates and make my mission to kill the attacking players (dark souls invasion style) in low/null? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Emo Skellington The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.07.03 17:06:00 - [394] - Quote Suspicion rating should be like eve but a little different. Obviously if salvaging in high sec you shouldn't shoot another player but if you do....well.....can we get a concord for this ? plz lol In low sec ...you CAN shoot at anyone but you get a suspicion rating suspicion rating would probably onlt really matter if you were in high sec. Otherwise itrs just a notifier in low sec. Btw we should have a local comms channel for when we do this so if 3 people are in the same spot salvaging they can talk to you. Supporter of Legion Supporter of Valkyrie Supporter/Fan of Eve
Emo Skellington The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.07.03 17:07:00 - [395] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Emo Skellington wrote: Maybe what we could do is make like a low sec mining operation. The drones that come out and "loot" will be the npcs of the faction in that system "blood raiders guristas. etc.. These drones will attack you making the salvaging into a pve session while looking for look. You should be able to choose the security system to go into and depending which you schoose depends on the suits and the gear that these npcs have (just like in EVE) Lower security means the harder it will be to kill the more the more difficul I definitley want to see proto suits with proto gear and a decent difficulty in their tactics in 0.1 and into null sec Salvage rates and the rarity should be determined in the security its found also Proto and salvage only gear should be found in low sec with higher drops rates the lower the security. Sounds like the blueprint for NPC combat missions. Go there -> kill pirates -> receive bounties/loot. While not horribly creative, this would be a good way for players who don't quite care for the whole mining aspect of the sandbox. The question is. Can I side with the pirates and make my mission to kill the attacking players (dark souls invasion style) in low/null? I absolutley love and gree with that question and would like that to be in a FW set up. Although that would be more of like a security mission for that faction Supporter of Legion Supporter of Valkyrie Supporter/Fan of Eve
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.03 17:22:00 - [396] - Quote Emo Skellington wrote: Maybe what we could do is make like a low sec mining operation. The drones that come out and "loot" will be the npcs of the faction in that system "blood raiders guristas. etc.. These drones will attack you making the salvaging into a pve session while looking for look. You should be able to choose the security system to go into and depending which you schoose depends on the suits and the gear that these npcs have (just like in EVE) Lower security means the harder it will be to kill the more the more difficul I definitley want to see proto suits with proto gear and a decent difficulty in their tactics in 0.1 and into null sec Salvage rates and the rarity should be determined in the security its found also Proto and salvage only gear should be found in low sec with higher drops rates the lower the security. That is basically how it's going to work for all NPCs. The problem is how to deal with the "not so" NPC players
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.03 20:05:00 - [397] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Personally whilst I don't think the IFF module is a bad idea, I prefer a reactive system over a proactive one in this case because of the uncertainty it creates. I think it's a shame to lose that aspect of play by telegraphing peoples intentions. One final point, then I'll concede. How is the IFF "proactive" rather than "reactive" and if so, why is this bad for progression..? Your IFF suggestion is Proactive since *you* decide how others are viewing you, and what you are allowed to do to others. If you have IFF ON, other players know you are not a threat since you can't fire upon them while it's ON. In CCP Wolfman's suggestion, it's your actions that's matters, not a flip of a switch. It's just there to broadcast potential player intent based on his previous actions, which might or might not have been accidental. You just don't know. Severus Smith wrote: In scenario A (without an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly Squad Member X lobs a grenade and ARs you in the head. Due to the low TTK and the utter surprise you die pretty much instantly without any chance to retaliate. Maybe the other 4 squad members take him down, but with a well placed grenade and an AR by the time they realize what has happened to you they're also probably dead. This isn't fun. No, it's not fun, I agree. Hopefully Legion will include some bounty option to pay him back for his betrayal (And don't squad with him again) But I see your point about the "no consequences" problematic within squads. This might lead to too many people running solo. What about FF is OFF within squads (one of the perks of running squads)? This would mean you have to leave squad to betray it. Severus Smith wrote: In scenario B (with an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly the message "Squad Member X has removed his IFF module" pops up on the screen and you spin around just in time to see him throw a grenade. Maybe you still die (like above) but at least you had a chance rather than just being gunned down in the back with no contest. This is more fun. I doubt you will have more of a chance then against a cloaked shotgun scout from behind, which is also not fun. What happens if the player enables his IFF after murdering your entire squad? He goes back to neutral? So he can do the same to the next poor sod that's comes along? Severus Smith wrote: You need steps. Not a cliff. This we agree on 100%. I believe all actions should have consequences, which should vary in severity with system security level. But again, I don't see Wolfman's suggestion as a system that enacts consequences, just information. We need another layer that does this.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8836	Posted - 2014.07.03 20:28:00 - [398] - Quote @CCP Wolfman Have you considered the Safety System that Eve Online has? How would you suggest it would work if implemented for Legion? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 905	Posted - 2014.07.03 23:36:00 - [399] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: This will only work on low alpha weaponry. A cloaky shotgunner can one-shot just about everyone, cloak, and wait for the cooldown to expire for the next hit. Same with FGs, snipers, PLCs, REs and, to a lesser extent, fully charged SCRs. Yes, that's the point. You can still kill people in high-sec, you just die 0.5 seconds afterwards and whatever other penalties accrue from that. Dust/Eve transfers
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1466	Posted - 2014.07.04 00:11:00 - [400] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: This will only work on low alpha weaponry. A cloaky shotgunner can one-shot just about everyone, cloak, and wait for the cooldown to expire for the next hit. Same with FGs, snipers, PLCs, REs and, to a lesser extent, fully charged SCRs. Yes, that's the point. You can still kill people in high-sec, you just die 0.5 seconds afterwards and whatever other penalties accrue from that. Then the lock mechanic is superfluous. A precision concordukken after certain damage with a slight delay as you propose will do the exact same thing, whether you lock the weapon or not. Why artificially limit the options available for non-consensual PVP when there's no need to do so? If someone wants to pull off a suicide gank with his HMG, let him (assuming Wolfman is willing to allow FF in high-sec in the first place). Nevermind that OHKOs are the least enjoyable form PVP for the victim due to the complete lack of counterplay. Essentially blocking all but those specific tactics has only downsides, albeit minor because most will use these weapons regardless of any further rules (have I mentioned the lock mechanic is superfluous?). You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3156	Posted - 2014.07.04 01:32:00 - [401] - Quote Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 905	Posted - 2014.07.04 01:50:00 - [402] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Well then there better be sentry drones around CRUs otherwise they'll be camped more heavily than anywhere in DayZ. Dust/Eve transfers
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1466	Posted - 2014.07.04 01:54:00 - [403] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Are hostile drones immediately aware of my presence and position or can cloaks & low suit profiles be used to avoid detection? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3156	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:06:00 - [404] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Well then there better be sentry drones around CRUs otherwise they'll be camped more heavily than anywhere in DayZ. The CRU's in salvage are going to be going away soon (at least as a test). I'll talk more about that soon to get your opinion


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3156	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:17:00 - [405] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Are hostile drones immediately aware of my presence and position or can cloaks & low suit profiles be used to avoid detection? Right now they don't 'understand' profiles but they do understand cloaking so yes you can use a cloak to avoid them.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11580	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:19:00 - [406] - Quote Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions. E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect? *"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3156	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:26:00 - [407] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions. E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect? We're looking at a session based system not a persistent one at this stage. That doesn't mean persistent isn't a place we can go but I think session based makes sense as a starting point. It's still early days

Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1466	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:30:00 - [408] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Well then there better be sentry drones around CRUs otherwise they'll be camped more heavily than anywhere in DayZ. The CRU's in salvage are going to be going away soon (at least as a test). I'll talk more about that soon to get your opinion Drop zones. Please say drop zones. And drop pods that we can also call in as OMS to evacuate. Destructible and with reasonable take off time so that others can prevent evacuation. Slower ones that can carry more loot. Faster ones that may force you to leave behind some of your loot. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11581	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:34:00 - [409] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions. E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect? We're looking at a session based system not a persistent one at this stage. That doesn't mean persistent isn't a place we can go but I think session based makes sense as a starting point. It's still early days This could apply session to session I suppose but I see your point. I mean if corp A has been smack talking on the forum, assuming Standings are slated (perhaps they are not), if a player with negative standing entered my session of Salvage, would I know or would it indicate that he has negative standing? If not for the early days could that be looked at in future? *"I watched you. From candle to a torch you grew. I'll always remember those days with great affection." - Satja Askarin
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1466	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:45:00 - [410] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions. E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect? We're looking at a session based system not a persistent one at this stage. That doesn't mean persistent isn't a place we can go but I think session based makes sense as a starting point. It's still early days Regarding reps (and logi in general) Have you thought about what happens If I rep/stab/re-ammo someone who is not in my squad and aggresses another party? He'll obviously become a suspect/threat, but what about me who is actively contributing to the conflict without dealing damage? Will the other party be able to take me out without getting a criminal flag? Eve had issues with that for a long time afair so it would be good figuring this out early on. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.04 05:20:00 - [411] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Hmm, interesting. At first I thought "YES!, this would take care of constant griefers. They surely don't want to get hunted by powerful Drones ". Then I realised that griefers usually takes the easy way out. So if you want to mess with relatively new players in your high end gear with ease, where do you go?: *To the highest possible security system where FF is ON.* Not only are there plenty of new players just starting to venture in New Eden, the drones are easier too, right? I am starting to like the ideas of CONCORD drones / NPC of very high level dropping in after some trigger in high sec. This could be the x consecutive kill (with prior warning), or just a increased probability (not a guarantee) of a drop the higher security status the system have. If you had this level of security, you could simply have FF ON all the time, everywhere... (Which is my preferred option).
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.04 05:41:00 - [412] - Quote I would also like to highlight a thought that popped up during my reply to Severus. - What if FF where always OFF within squads? (And I mean *always, in all security space) This would actually take care of a number of problems: it gives a huge plus to running squads, especially for new players. it completely removes the problem of trolling within squads without consequences. to betray the squad you need to leave it first, giving the prior warning Severus was looking for. The "no tagging" within squads would make sense, since it would be impossible (due to FF OFF) to obtain a suspect or threat status by firing on your team mates. the common squad tagging also makes more sense, since you still can fire upon other players and squads, but will do so as a team. I would rather have this, and keep FF ON in all security space rather than keeping an artificial safe place (high sec), which suddenly just ends somewhere. (Mayyybee* 1.0 sec systems still can have FF OFF, but 0.9 - Null sec should have FF ON)
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 320	Posted - 2014.07.04 07:39:00 - [413] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. I don't like this. It is like opposite to: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Drones should be more friendly for providing them more salvage then they already had. Nosum Hseebnrido
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 320	Posted - 2014.07.04 07:54:00 - [414] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: - What if FF where always OFF within squads? (And I mean *always*, in all security space) This would actually take care of a number of problems: it gives a huge plus to running squads, especially for new players. it completely removes the problem of trolling within squads without consequences. to betray the squad you need to leave it first, giving the prior warning Severus was looking for. The "no tagging" within squads would make sense, since it would be impossible (due to FF OFF) to obtain a suspect or threat status by firing on your team mates. the common squad tagging also makes more sense, since you still can fire upon other players and squads, but will do so as a team. (...) Ow rly? Imagine 6-men squad with Mass Drivers killing everything around but not each other. It is something like camp-gate disco in low-sec(10~ Battleships fitted for high resistance on smartbomb's they use - they are making minimal damage each other in proximity of smartbombs but everything without those resistance evaporate). Is it make sense for you now? Nosum Hseebnrido
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.04 10:05:00 - [415] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: - What if FF where always OFF within squads? (And I mean *always*, in all security space) This would actually take care of a number of problems: it gives a huge plus to running squads, especially for new players. it completely removes the problem of trolling within squads without consequences. to betray the squad you need to leave it first, giving the prior warning Severus was looking for. The "no tagging" within squads would make sense, since it would be impossible (due to FF OFF) to obtain a suspect or threat status by firing on your team mates. the common squad tagging also makes more sense, since you still can fire upon other players and squads, but will do so as a team. (...) Ow rly? Imagine 6-men squad with Mass Drivers killing everything around but not each other. It is something like camp-gate disco in low-sec(10~ Battleships fitted for high resistance on smartbomb's they use - they are making minimal damage each other in proximity of smartbombs but everything without those resistance evaporate). Is it make sense for you now? I still think so, yes. It would be a valid (although unpopular) tactic in the lower systems. But if they try the same in high sec they should be feel the consequences, by constant threat label, drone attacks and preferable also Concord. Also, the FF "OFF" for squads does not need to be 100%, it could be, let say 80%. In your example above, they would bring the wrath of some bad-ass drones. What FF OFF in squads would give us, is a relatively safe space for people that don't know each other, that is not dependent on the local security level. The ability to turn coat your squad without any repercussions will be gone, since you need to leave squad to do so. This will increase your threat level, and invoke any consequences the game feel is justified depending on where you do it. New people would be encouraged to run squads, which we don't have at the moment in Dust 514. I think it's important (for any game) that the game mechanics (i.e can I hurt that dude?) stays the same thoughout the game. I don't like the sudden shift from FF OFF to ON that we have I Dust at the moment, and I will not like it in Legion either. If a new person learns the ropes in high sec, he shouldn't have to re-learn everything when he goes deeper in the game. With general FF ON, and squad FF "OFF" throughout the game, it will only be the consequences of your actions which will vary.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 332	Posted - 2014.07.04 10:17:00 - [416] - Quote Sounds like you should just copy EVE's suspect system since you have already re-created some of it. Keep things consistant with one system across games. As for the overall salvaging system, have you thought any about the aspects of it that will keep people coming back? As it stands now it sounds like repitition / staleness will set in sooner or later. What will excite someone to go salvag when they have done it a hundred times before? EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2014.07.04 10:47:00 - [417] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: The CRU's in salvage are going to be going away soon (at least as a test). I'll talk more about that soon to get your opinion *Please* let it involve Internet Spaceships Pretty please with sugar on top?
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6143	Posted - 2014.07.04 12:21:00 - [418] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Are hostile drones immediately aware of my presence and position or can cloaks & low suit profiles be used to avoid detection? Right now they don't 'understand' profiles but they do understand cloaking so yes you can use a cloak to avoid them. Ooooh, this just gave me a curious idea of a particular light drone type that is better at finding Scouts Found a video that I think shows off what -I- think of when I think of the drones. Albeit, it is from Crysis xD http://youtu.be/RrMxuWlbkBA I love how they force the guy into cover with suppression, changing the way he has to engage them and even falling back where they flank him. He pulls through but he comes really close to death at one point or another. That sort of AI is just beautiful, IMO. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 320	Posted - 2014.07.04 15:33:00 - [419] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: What FF OFF in squads would give us, is a relatively safe space for people that don't know each other, that is not dependent on the local security level. The ability to turn coat your squad without any repercussions will be gone, since you need to leave squad to do so. This will increase your threat level, and invoke any consequences the game feel is justified depending on where you do it. New people would be encouraged to run squads, which we don't have at the moment in Dust 514. I think it's important (for any game) that the game mechanics (i.e can I hurt that dude?) stays the same thoughout the game. I don't like the sudden shift from FF OFF to ON that we have I Dust at the moment, and I will not like it in Legion either. If a new person learns the ropes in high sec, he shouldn't have to re-learn everything when he goes deeper in the game. With general FF ON, and squad FF "OFF" throughout the game, it will only be the consequences of your actions which will vary. Look, I think that everyone should be able to kill each other in Leagion(no half measures, no matter on system security). Of course there should be consequences as always, depended on system security status, but they should not be permanent and persone that commit the crime once should be able to commit it again in future. There should not be mechanics that prevent players to physically commit a crime. Beside generally speaking, if you were a man who wants to learn the game mechanics you should not be depended on how game works itself and your own experience of playing it, but on ugly-fat-library of trailers, guidelines, and evil-block-of-text that teaches you play it on every step that you are making in-game. We don't have that today. New people that come and play Dust 514 for the first time are inform how to start match, create new fitting and fit it so it's valid and a couple of similar things. They scratching game in their first 24-hours period of time and If they want to know something extra, they are depended on community, and community is not something solid(available every day with the same attitude of willingness to help). There are some people that do not use forums to often, right? So they are force to wander aimlessly till someday they just delete or start playing some different FPS. Thats why new players do not make they own squads - they simply do not know how, or why. Severus Smith wrote: (...) Without a system like this then your "carebear" players will never leave Highsec. Just like in EVE, a one jump difference goes from relative safety to utterly deadly. There isn't a stepping stone. And while many people will go "this is needed" I disagree. EVE has a large problem with incensing players to move from Highsec to Low to Null. Why? Because dropping from 0.5 to 0.4 means you will lose what your flying. CONCORD doesn't give a **** and gate guns wont save you. You don't want that in DUST / Legion. You want new / carebear players to want to adventure out into Lowsec. There should still be danger, but it is mitigated by something like the IFF where instead of dying instantly to a turncloak or ganker they have a chance to react and survive. 1 - 2 seconds, that's all. Then, when they eventually move to Null, they can deal with the "reactive" situations of FF being always on and having to worry about instantly dying to betrayals. You need steps. Not a cliff. In EVE you can not kill another player in those places/situations: Station - whoever hides in station is untouchable. OutPost - similar to Station but more boring. POS - with exception - someone can bump you out of it or camp it till it has no fuel and no longer provide safety. Cloaked ship in safespot - theoretically you can kill him, but he is invisible(physically and electronically). ..and that's it. There is no invisible protection in high sec, that will save your ship from suicide-gank(thats trigger a few nice story in my head). You can die everywhere except those places/situations that I mentioned. I think that one of the factors[ that convince players to move on to more "dangerous places" is when they realise it, and starting to calculate what they can gain in the same amount of time that they spend on game now(in Empire). And of course everywhere else they can get more than in Empire. PS Sorry for weak eng. Nosum Hseebnrido
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.07.04 23:32:00 - [420] - Quote This pic is from the Eve fan fest 2014 of the drone landscape. Pic You will notice Drones and a ship in the distance. The bigger the map for the objective to salvage in an open environment the better. ATC

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 316	Posted - 2014.07.05 14:17:00 - [421] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: There is no invisible protection in high sec, that will save your ship from suicide-gank(thats trigger a few nice story in my head). You can die everywhere except those places/situations that I mentioned. I think that one of the factors[ that convince players to move on to more "dangerous places" is when they realise it, and starting to calculate what they can gain in the same amount of time that they spend on game now(in Empire). And of course everywhere else they can get more than in Empire. Apologies if I was unclear (again ), but his is basically what I want as well. I don't want to have an artificial "safe haven" where it is impossible to commit a crime, which FF OFF in high sec would give us. However, I also recognise that FF ON in high sec needs to be handled with care, since otherwise it can backfire badly. New people need to have some form of safety, and I think one of the best ways of doing this is to have FF OFF (or very low) within squads. It makes a more definable area of (relative) safety, which most importantly does not suddenly stop somewhere at some geographical point. Imagine meeting somebody in Legion while during a salvage run, and you decide to squad up. When joining the squad your HUD (perhaps with voice over?) shows the following messages: * REGIS BLACKBIRD JOINED SQUAD * * ESTABLISHING SEQURE VOICE CHANNEL * * SYNCHRONISING SHIELDS AND REACTIVE ARMOUR * Edit: I want to emphasise that at no point does this system prevent you from committing a crime, or backstab somebody. You just need to be more calculating and strike when the time is right. You can't just blow their brains out while they are 100% health with no tagging or consequences whatsoever. - To do it without any tagging, you need to wait until that drone brings them down to low health, and then strike. But if you do it too early it will be you alone against any remaining drones. - If you don't care about the tagging, leave squad (thus giving them a small warning) and kill them. Then you will get marked as anybody else.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 316	Posted - 2014.07.07 14:41:00 - [422] - Quote Hmmm. I think I have to crawl to the cross and retract my statements of FF OFF within squads After thinking some more about it; this system would (indirectly) also mean that "self FF" (i.e self inflicted) damage is also reduced, which I am not sure is a good idea. To have it affect differently within and outside of squads makes no sense either, both from a game perspective (=confusing), and lore perspective (why is my weapons synced to my buddies, but not my own shields?) Thanks a lot Sylwester , your comments have been nagging me in the back of my head for some time. Guess you were right Back to the drawing board...
Severus Smith Caldari State 549	Posted - 2014.07.07 15:07:00 - [423] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Hmmm. I think I have to crawl to the cross and retract my statements of FF OFF within squads After thinking some more about it; this system would (indirectly) also mean that "self FF" (i.e self inflicted) damage is also reduced, which I am not sure is a good idea. To have it affect differently within and outside of squads makes no sense either, both from a game perspective (=confusing), and lore perspective (why is my weapons synced to my buddies, but not my own shields?) Thanks a lot Sylwester , your comments have been nagging me in the back of my head for some time. Guess you were right Back to the drawing board... You could still do it, but it is harder. Turn FF off for weapon damage and make explosives "smart" so that they do not explode if a squad mate is within the explosion radius. We have smart munitions like that in RL now. If nothing else thanks for seeing my point. I too want carnage and the ability to shoot anyone. BUT if you put it in without some safety for squads (your idea is much simpler than mine) no one will run them because people will always betray at the end. You want squads to be fun, not paranoia inducing.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 318	Posted - 2014.07.07 16:21:00 - [424] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Hmmm. I think I have to crawl to the cross and retract my statements of FF OFF within squads After thinking some more about it; this system would (indirectly) also mean that "self FF" (i.e self inflicted) damage is also reduced, which I am not sure is a good idea. To have it affect differently within and outside of squads makes no sense either, both from a game perspective (=confusing), and lore perspective (why is my weapons synced to my buddies, but not my own shields?) Thanks a lot Sylwester , your comments have been nagging me in the back of my head for some time. Guess you were right Back to the drawing board... You could still do it, but it is harder. Turn FF off for weapon damage and make explosives "smart" so that they do not explode if a squad mate is within the explosion radius. We have smart munitions like that in RL now. If nothing else thanks for seeing my point. I too want carnage and the ability to shoot anyone. BUT if you put it in without some safety for squads (your idea is much simpler than mine) no one will run them because people will always betray at the end. You want squads to be fun, not paranoia inducing. Very good idea As you, I want to have a real incentive to run squads. I saw the "FF OFF" idea as a type of "contract" between squad members; to enter a bond of mutual protection that benefits all members. I still like the idea, but the ability to cook a grenade and let it go of in your hand next to a "friendly" and obtaining minimal damage yourself (as Sylwester hinted at) is game breaking. However, your idea work even for people that run a "solo squad"
Kincate DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2014.07.08 12:06:00 - [425] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions. E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect? We're looking at a session based system not a persistent one at this stage. That doesn't mean persistent isn't a place we can go but I think session based makes sense as a starting point. It's still early days If I may ask for clarification on this. By session based you are talking about the suspicion ratings and how long they last correct? If so I think some form of permanent system would need to be required or else you can maximize your carnage, end the session then repeat the process with a clean slate. Some form of persistance would really seem nessecary. 1st Legionhare
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 319	Posted - 2014.07.08 14:49:00 - [426] - Quote Kincate wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: True Adamance wrote: Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions. E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect? We're looking at a session based system not a persistent one at this stage. That doesn't mean persistent isn't a place we can go but I think session based makes sense as a starting point. It's still early days If I may ask for clarification on this. By session based you are talking about the suspicion ratings and how long they last correct? If so I think some form of permanent system would need to be required or else you can maximize your carnage, end the session then repeat the process with a clean slate. Some form of persistance would really seem nessecary. Good question, I wonder this myself.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3172	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:31:00 - [427] - Quote One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning.

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 907	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:38:00 - [428] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. Wolfman, you should know that balancing by isk is just not going to work in New Eden. Dust/Eve transfers
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:39:00 - [429] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. Thanks for the explanation So if I understand you correctly, it is possible for me to obtain "threat level" in a session, leave and rejoin the same session and thus "clear" my bad reputation? However, I have to pay for this with a new "clone / jump fee"? Question: what happens to the clones you have "reserved" if you don't "use" them (read: die a lot)?
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6191	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:42:00 - [430] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. What are some ways that players can earn ISK outside of Salvage Fields? Are public contracts still going to be the primary source of income for a new player? Cost of clones and equipment could get costly, especially if you're having difficulty making income from the Salvage fields you're losing them in. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3173	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:44:00 - [431] - Quote It's not purely balanced by ISK. That's just a factor. Repeated drops to the same location will increase in cost each time. Right now the unused clones are not refunded. Don't forget we're just at a prototype stage here guys, starting with simple systems and developing them through play.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3173	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:44:00 - [432] - Quote Going to change the topic again in a sec...

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:45:00 - [433] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. Wolfman, you should know that balancing by isk is just not going to work in New Eden. I agree. Like in Dust, some players will be incredibly wealthy and this "fee" is not going to bother them much. @Wolfman: What are the difficulties to make the suspicion rating persistent? I.e even if you leave the session and join the same / new, the countdown will still go on?
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:49:00 - [434] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Going to change the topic again in a sec... Don't you change the topic without telling us how the play tests went!

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3173	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:51:00 - [435] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. Wolfman, you should know that balancing by isk is just not going to work in New Eden. I agree. Like in Dust, some players will be incredibly wealthy and this "fee" is not going to bother them much. @Wolfman: What are the difficulties to make the suspicion rating persistent? I.e even if you leave the session and join the same / new, the countdown will still go on? Sure, I know it's just one deterrent. The main thing we aim to achieve to begin with is simply being able to tell if someone in match has been PKing. No more, no less. We could develop a broader more complicated system for sure, this just seems like a good starting point that can be built on if it becomes clear there is a need. Keep in mind we've not even tried it yet. We'll probably have version 1 up and running in the next few days.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:53:00 - [436] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: It's not purely balanced by ISK. That's just a factor. Repeated drops to the same location will increase in cost each time. *Right now the unused clones are not refunded.* Don't forget we're just at a prototype stage here guys, starting with simple systems and developing them through play. This "might" penalise players which are very careful and do not die a lot. Although it should be the case if you leave the session with a "threat" status.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3173	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:54:00 - [437] - Quote Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts?

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6191	Posted - 2014.07.09 09:58:00 - [438] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. Wolfman, you should know that balancing by isk is just not going to work in New Eden. I agree. Like in Dust, some players will be incredibly wealthy and this "fee" is not going to bother them much. @Wolfman: What are the difficulties to make the suspicion rating persistent? I.e even if you leave the session and join the same / new, the countdown will still go on? Sure, I know it's just one deterrent. The main thing we aim to achieve to begin with is simply being able to tell if someone in match has been PKing. No more, no less. We could develop a broader more complicated system for sure, this just seems like a good starting point that can be built on if it becomes clear there is a need. Keep in mind we've not even tried it yet. We'll probably have version 1 up and running in the next few days. Just be sure that - if you guys do go for a broader more complicated system - to keep it relatively simple. The last thing we need/want is another Crimewatch 1.0 from Eve Online where it was all just convoluted and no-one really had any idea what causes caused what effect. Crimewatch 2.0 was simplified with 5 different flags solely because of how confusing it all was, so we do make a complicated system it's important that it have this sort of organization for both the community and the developers' sake. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3175	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:01:00 - [439] - Quote Couldn't agree more Aeon!

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6194	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:02:00 - [440] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? a) Lore explanation? How are we spawning in the sky? b) Height of the drop? Are we going to have time to orient ourselves and 'guide' ourselves to a landing area of choice preference? EDIT: c) Refresh me on what a LOD beacon is, first time hearing it. Other than that, I have ALWAYS loved the concept of actually DROPPING into the battlefield. All of my +1's. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15821	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:02:00 - [441] - Quote Re: LOD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddpi-wYDV9A CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1461	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:06:00 - [442] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? Thoughts?? Who do I have to give a reach around to for this to happen? Good enough answer? CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:09:00 - [443] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? Love it! +1 I guess we can "drift" a little bit in the air like we can in Dust? Wouldn't want to accidentally land in the middle of an ongoing Drone fight Also, will it be possible for individual members of a squad to deploy separately? Like, if somebody want to recon and drop a more suitable spawn/ drop location for the rest of the squad? Or do we need to break squad, deploy, place beacon and then reform the squad (seems complicated)...
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:15:00 - [444] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: a) Lore explanation? How are we spawning in the sky? ^ this Also, how are we getting off the planet? (edit: with the loot?)
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10739	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:16:00 - [445] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? Reaction Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10739	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:17:00 - [446] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? Could this be tested in DUST? Give us a toy to test and help balance Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1461	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:33:00 - [447] - Quote If you could get this in Dust..... Awesome sauce. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 907	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:37:00 - [448] - Quote LOD beacons: please tell me they fit in a grenade slot instead of equipment slot Dust/Eve transfers
Steve Renuken Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 39	Posted - 2014.07.09 11:33:00 - [449] - Quote Lore: There are cloaked RDVs with build in drop uplinks which are kept on a random flightpath, to stop them being localized and shot down.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2043	Posted - 2014.07.09 11:34:00 - [450] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? OHNOES!!!! Devs got spawn camped by Devs?!?!?!?!? OH THE HUMANITY!!!! Seriously though, I really like the way this sounds. Is there any possibility that there will be specific persons on either team who can place Drop Uplinks/LOD Beacons that can be used by more than just themselves and their squad? Something like "I am Platoon Commander so I can drop Uplinks and LOD Beacons that can be used by the 5 squads assigned to me". Get them working right please, though keep an eye to the future for things like the above sentence. "Heres the deal, in the 40s there was Normandy today you got punks, some need culling real bad." --Truth Logi for Hire

Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1461	Posted - 2014.07.09 11:38:00 - [451] - Quote Steve Renuken wrote: Lore: There are cloaked RDVs with build in drop uplinks which are kept on a random flightpath, to stop them being localized and shot down. Sorted. Lore is important but lets not let it get in the way of a working mechanism. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 251	Posted - 2014.07.09 12:12:00 - [452] - Quote Rather than completely random I'd suggest that players spawn at a random location within a number of large relatively safer areas of the map. Just to avoid players spawning right on top of phat loot, or in the middle of a drone swarm Like how players spawn at a random location on the coastline in Dayz and then have to travel inland to find the phat loot.
Adelia Lafayette WarRavens Final Resolution. 803	Posted - 2014.07.09 12:18:00 - [453] - Quote change drop uplinks and LOD usable by squad to set by standings or locked to squad/corp/alliance and I'm happy. Assault dropship gets blown up.... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"... ..."I'm back"
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 251	Posted - 2014.07.09 12:19:00 - [454] - Quote Oh and for setting up a base. Rather than an uplink. Can we have a small building that we can call in? Maybe make it upgradable? Small base gives mercs something to spawn at and is hard to find. Upgraded base allows vehicles to be called in and is larger (and therefor easier to spot). Largest base allows the call in or loot retrieval vehicle and sticks out like dogs balls. You could also have some variations such as a stealth base that cloaks but has limited spawns. Or one that specialists in vehicles but limited clones. You can have other upgrades like a shield, radar, weapons locker. The idea would be that the bigger the base the easier it is to find, but the more functionality it offers.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 746	Posted - 2014.07.09 12:29:00 - [455] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? Can you define "base of operations" and what you mean by it? Do you mean a place to set up salvage or a starting area to move from and explore? (or anything in-between) When the player is dropped how much control will they have to dictate where they drop to if no one has setup LOD beacons? I'm thinking this primarily for the lone wolf solo players. Have to say this sounds very interesting! Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.09 12:39:00 - [456] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? As a fan of Section 8, I'm definitely in favor. Do you also plan to grant the ability to shoot down people who spawn in groups, making them more easily visible? There could be some tactical component to using drop uplinks and to firing the inertial dampeners as late as possible, in order to avoid possible flak fire. (Dampeners could increase scan profile, in addition to their highly visible visual effect) Also, are you planning on increasing the general "superhuman" factor? It's something that Dust has been seriously lacking in, to the point of feeling like random dudes in clothes instead of advanced sci-fi armor. For lore, we've had a trailer (...I think it was a trailer for Dust) that had a ship that dropped into the atmosphere and then unloaded its mercenary cargo in mid-air. This explains the randomness and the air spawn - Dropsuits (Hell, even the name fits) have smaller scan profiles than a dropship. However, I would love a directed drop inside of a dropship, if there's no flak on the ground or if the pilot is really good.
Mc Ribwich Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 559	Posted - 2014.07.09 13:24:00 - [457] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? This sounds awesome. Although there can be a few ways to make it interesting. It would be awesome if default Skyspawns scattered you and your team in one location, so you would have to form back up before you could do anything. Advanced Skyspawns could drop you and your team in with the help of EVE support. Something like an EVE player gets into orbit and fires off a pod with your team in, in Legion the pod is filled with your team and works like an orbital drop pod. You can see the thing from miles because of the effect it makes when it enters the atmosphere. Something like a fireball with a massive flame trail. You might not have the element of surprise but at least you and your team are together when you land. Another version of the Skyspawn could be you and your team are deployed in a dropship that is or is not piloted by a team member. Having a Dropship spawn you in might be not be as fast as the other options, but with this option you will have a way to head back home that doesn't involve your team committing suicide. If It's an AI pilot then you simply plot your course and wait for the ship to land. You might be a big moving target but at least you are a well protected moving target that won't get split up when you land. That is unless you get shot down and some people bail out causing them to get scattered about. If your dropship is piloted by a player then you won't be as well armoured by you will at least (hopefully) have a pilot who is capable of preforming evasive maneuvers. Dropships could be deployed by EVE players in orbit around the planet, just like in the EVE book Templar One. With these options it would be cool if you had a first person view of inside the drop pod or dropships. The two Youtube links below are good examples of this that I would love to see happen in Legion. Drop pod. AI Dropship (Starts at 55 seconds.) Player piloted Dropship, now with Dust footage.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3221	Posted - 2014.07.09 13:40:00 - [458] - Quote I like the idea of setting up a field base, so one guy has a tent and a small turrent a corp has a mulitfuction base with tanks, low and null sec could become very orgnaic if we expand off this idea :-D You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.09 14:18:00 - [459] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I like the idea of setting up a field base, so one guy has a tent and a small turrent a corp has a mulitfuction base with tanks, low and null sec could become very orgnaic if we expand off this idea :-D You could store vehicles and equipment there and have other corps sabotage the camps, causing the permanent salvage missions to get significantly weakened.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1204	Posted - 2014.07.09 14:20:00 - [460] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? BLUF: Major concerns here if you de-value drop links. Conceptually, the sky spawn idea sounds ok; really have to check it out in practice to make an informed decision. The concern I have is that you may quickly devalue the drop link if you have too much control over your spawn locations and take a way significant tactical options and WP generation if it's limited to squad only. Secondary question - is this a harbinger of moving all equipment to a more squad centric model? (i.e. Hives, Links, Scanners only function for SQD?) If so, i highly recommend you start a whole separate thread for that discussion. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen

steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3223	Posted - 2014.07.09 14:31:00 - [461] - Quote Uplinks functional dont change? They remove the random element of your spawn or at least get you to spawn closer to an objective, i dont have any issues with skyspawning as long as you can setup AA turrents to established some kind of front line or engagement bubbles You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2876	Posted - 2014.07.09 14:50:00 - [462] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I'm not suggesting all areas would be like that. Not being sure who to trust would be part of the fun but I do think you need some safe places to learn the ropes. I would prefer to see the EVE model is at all possible. Where you aren't "disabled" from shooting people anywhere, but that there be punishment for doing so in higher security regions. One of the inadvertent issues with disabling friendly fire in DUST has been the lack of ability to attack or remove people intentionally interfering with your gameplay, leading to things like the LAV driver who keeps pushing the sniper off the hill, or the guy who keeps standing in front of your gun so you can't do anything to the enemy. Not to mention how much less AFKing would exist if I could shot the AFKers on my team in the face. If at all possible, friendly fire should be possible in all game zones, but it should have varying effects in different places. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1463	Posted - 2014.07.09 14:51:00 - [463] - Quote To be honest I'd welcome some devaluation of drop uplinks. It's an incredibly powerful mechanic to have in a game and the fact is it's already devalued by uplinks being scattered like confetti. They also remove a potential role for vehicles that hasn't been explored properly yet, namely troop transport. I'm sure in CCP's discussions there's been talk of certain features not making the jump to Legion. If it meant vehicles could have a role to fulfil, I personally wouldn't cry much about uplinks getting knocked into touch. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2876	Posted - 2014.07.09 14:54:00 - [464] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: To be honest I'd welcome some devaluation of drop uplinks. It's an incredibly powerful mechanic to have in a game and the fact is it's already devalued by uplinks being scattered like confetti. I'd almost be kinda happy to see drop uplinks yanked entirely. If used as a drop point from the sky, I guess they'd be alright. But I'd rather see deployable smaller CRUs called in or something. The lore excuse for uplinks seems poor, and they do heavily devalue both CRUs and any sort of movement tactics altogether. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3079	Posted - 2014.07.09 15:02:00 - [465] - Quote I'd quite happily see Uplinks get torched entirely... the uplink mechanic pretty much ruined PC.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3224	Posted - 2014.07.09 15:37:00 - [466] - Quote Tbh im for vercal based crus creating FoBs planetside 2 style helps great natrual flows in battles and a sense of timeline You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.07.09 16:23:00 - [467] - Quote I am all for sky spawns at a random location when entering the district for the first time (session start). To always jump in when you die is probably not a good idea, but could be an available option. I like the concept of setting up some form of base camp, preferably with some type of small installation / structure that can (should) be defended, for example a mCRU. If you loose that one, the session ends and brings you back to merc quaters, with no loot (you can perhaps "sky spawn" back again to the same district to try and reclaim your lost stuff, but have to pay the normal deployment fee). It should be totally possible to utterly fail a salvaging mission! I think the structures need to be dropped in via LOD Beacons. This mean you don't have to deploy your main base of operations where you land, in case it's not a very favourable spot. From the base of operation you venture out by foot, or small vehicles (which require larger installations) and start your scavenging tour. All the loot you find need to be brought back to the base for extraction, even if everything fits in your backpack (read: "harvester"). As was mentioned earlier in the thread, larger bases can bring larger stuff (which of course cost more), but are also easier to locate. As for lore (because this interest me), I would prefer if we dropped from orbit via NPC corps (in high and low sec). As stated in other threads, I don't like the concept of magically teleporting across the galaxy with all our gear. We should "reserve" space and clones on a local transporting corp (spaceship), that takes us to the destination. Since they are system local NPC corps, the spawn time does not need to be longer than starting a battle in dust. The beauty of this is that the same mechanic can later be incorporated into EVE, where real players can make a living just by transporting mercs to inaccessible locations (read: null sec). The same mechanic could technically be used for PC 2.0 Just my 2 ISK.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.07.09 16:30:00 - [468] - Quote Ohh, before I forget. Please make it so we can change our direction (point of view) mid air. I like that we can "drift" in Dust, but you are stuck facing the same direction until you hit the ground. In Legion, I guess we drop from higher altitude, so it's vital that we can look around and survey the area before we land.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15824	Posted - 2014.07.09 16:32:00 - [469] - Quote I say make the sky spawn beacon a new racial equipment to rival the 'covert' drop uplink we currently use. Probably Minmatar. Then make 'passive' versions of both (ie they're always on the person using them) for the last two races. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.07.09 16:36:00 - [470] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I say make the sky spawn beacon a new racial equipment to rival the 'covert' drop uplink we currently use. Probably Minmatar. Then make 'passive' versions of both (ie they're always on the person using them) for the last two races. ??? You lost me there. What do you mean?

Grimmiers 622	Posted - 2014.07.09 17:14:00 - [471] - Quote Can the whole sky spawn be explained by the use of a orbiting clone vat? Maybe they could be seen in eve jumping to planets but are so low profile that they don't show up until you manually click on it. Once they're within a planet's atmosphere they're ready for dropping you into battle and can no longer be destroyed eve side. It's like a pocket warbarge. I like the idea of random drops to a district. Spawn uplinks can mess up the pace of the battle and for a sandbox mode the idea of beacons used to have a designated drop zone. Maybe higher tiers can be more accurate on where you land and tell you how many players are nearby without disclosing if they're enemies. Actual grounds spawns should be done with crus which should be changed in legion to have an interior. Then there should be a vehicle focused on spawns like that medium attack vehicle that was shown before acting like a mobile cru. Anything large would be better for spawning than the uplinks that are always purposely glitched in some object. If the spawn uplinks stay in I hope they have a very small spawn count of like 3~6 and the equipment bandwidth cap keeps you from spamming multiple types.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 323	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:02:00 - [472] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? If I would be a bad pirate I would like to join my futures victims squad and unnoticed hack their LOD beacon so it is visible for my corp mates as well. And I think that we will need Corporation, and Alliance LODB's as well, not just squad. Nosum Hseebnrido
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:41:00 - [473] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I say make the sky spawn beacon a new racial equipment to rival the 'covert' drop uplink we currently use. Probably Minmatar. Then make 'passive' versions of both (ie they're always on the person using them) for the last two races. This ties into a general point: It would be awesome to have a slow expansion into full racial sets of equipment. It would make racial loadouts and maybe even single-race compositions viable and interesting. Race vs Race teams would have interesting dynamics, as the tanking style of the enemy is a known factor and adds actual tactics, in contrast to what would otherwise happen. Gallente could have the most comfortable spawning method. (e.g. a drop pod beacon) Caldari might have something cloaking-related.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 323	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:10:00 - [474] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: (...)bases of operation(...) What CCP Wolfman think: link What everyone else think: link Nosum Hseebnrido
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 284	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:12:00 - [475] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? We beta tested Dust 514 for two years before may 2013.When will get to beta test Legion? With private NDA Forums.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 284	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:15:00 - [476] - Quote Request for more info on terms used by Legion Devs. You are talking about some things that we in Dust haven't experienced so we need Definitions of the words you are using to get a frame of reference. Thank You. 1.Low orbital Drop 2.LOD Beacon 3.Sky Spawns 4.Salvage
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 325	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:02:00 - [477] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: (...)bases of operation(...) What CCP Wolfman think: link What everyone else think: link But we can dream
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 325	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:12:00 - [478] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Actual grounds spawns should be done with crus which should be changed in legion to have an interior. Then there should be a vehicle focused on spawns like that medium attack vehicle that was shown before acting like a mobile cru. Anything large would be better for spawning than the uplinks that are always purposely glitched in some object. (old EVE online art) That would be a proper place to spawn - It has interior, guns to protect, awesome look, big wheels.. Nosum Hseebnrido
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11725	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:55:00 - [479] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Actual grounds spawns should be done with crus which should be changed in legion to have an interior. Then there should be a vehicle focused on spawns like that medium attack vehicle that was shown before acting like a mobile cru. Anything large would be better for spawning than the uplinks that are always purposely glitched in some object. (old EVE online art) That would be a proper place to spawn - It has interior, guns to protect, awesome look, big wheels.. Screw using that as a spawn point..... I WANT TO DRIVE IT! "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
Grimmiers 624	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:33:00 - [480] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Grimmiers wrote: Actual grounds spawns should be done with crus which should be changed in legion to have an interior. Then there should be a vehicle focused on spawns like that medium attack vehicle that was shown before acting like a mobile cru. Anything large would be better for spawning than the uplinks that are always purposely glitched in some object. (old EVE online art) That would be a proper place to spawn - It has interior, guns to protect, awesome look, big wheels.. Yes that!


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3189	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:23:00 - [481] - Quote Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting? Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky. Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent. Lore? Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns. You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. Droplinks used by more than just squads? For now itGÇÖs just squad. We are hoping to give the player the option when deploying for it to be personal/squad/team. Completely random? ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop. Calling in a small building, base of operations? By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step. Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome.

Oceltot Mortalis 30	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:33:00 - [482] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting? Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky. Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent. Lore? Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns. You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. Droplinks used by more than just squads? For now itGÇÖs just squad. We are hoping to give the player the option when deploying for it to be personal/squad/team. Completely random? ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop. Calling in a small building, base of operations? By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step. Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome. Can we get a grenade slot, one time use, personal spawn point? Lone wolves need love too. In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11738	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:54:00 - [483] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting? Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky. Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent. Lore? Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns. You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. Droplinks used by more than just squads? For now itGÇÖs just squad. We are hoping to give the player the option when deploying for it to be personal/squad/team. Completely random? ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop. Calling in a small building, base of operations? By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step. Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome. I don't know how I feel about having two spawner type equipment options......to be really honest I think the Sky Drop would be significantly more popular as the direct feeling of Deploying Looking Up Seeing your squad rocket down from above onto your location. As Opposed to Drops Uplink Peeps randomly spawn in.......... "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3189	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:12:00 - [484] - Quote That's why we'll test them out, we're not married to both types. Droplinks do offer different benefits though such as the ability to spawn in an interior so that is something that needs to be taken in to account as well.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6210	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:19:00 - [485] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting = Good >=D Lore: Good enough for me. Albeit, the concept of a bunch of dead clones' gear laying all over the salvage field seems like it would further propagate the issue of drones coming around - I love it xD Squad/Team DU: Cool. Completely Random: Well, technically it's not -completely- random, sounds a lot like the Ambush spawning mechanics... Only in the sky and without necessarily being near your 'team'. Calling in buildings: Soooo, 'bout dat Commander suit and dropping of installations.... Squad LOD: Actually, the idea of an isolated worm-hole would make perfect sense for this. Give the player(s) the option to select 'deploy with squad leader' and then a 30-second count-down or something, just have the squad come out of the same worm-hole in unison. Could still be random but they're all deploying in the same 'warp bubble', so to speak. Suggestions: Consider shortening or altering the animation for when you hit the ground after using inertial dampeners. It's kind of a pain being stuck in one position and having to wait for the character - who I have no control of during the animation - lift up from his kneeling position, especially while being shot at. If you have to, look into giving us a temporary shield like in Titan Fall. We're already invulnerable and cloaked for a second whenever you spawn in Dust 514 anyway so if anything you're just telling the other player why they're not doing damage. (Sarcastically speaking) That or something like the HDG from Final Fantasy The Spirits Within: "High Density Gas (HDG) - A gel packet that is fired at the ground while a Deep Eyes member is airborne. Upon impact with the ground, the gel expands, forming into a cushion of dense, liquid-like gas for a soldier to safely drop into, protecting them from normally fatal falls." Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 327	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:13:00 - [486] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting? Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky. Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent. Thanks for recognising the importance of it though (don't forget my "adjusting mercs point of view during decent" comment, this is important) CCP Wolfman wrote: Lore? Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns. You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. I am now a happy merc It does not matter the who, why and how in this stage. This comment alone (even if it currently has zero game mechanics attached to it) gives great hope for the future! I am totally fine with the rest as well... for now CCP Wolfman wrote: Completely random? ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop. It would be nice if a "sky spawn point" is marked as "used" for a duration of time after a squad deploys. You don't want to drop on top of another squad which just deployed by accident. CCP Wolfman wrote: Calling in a small building, base of operations? By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step. I understood that, but its nice to get the imagination go wild sometimes (ohh wait..., my does that all the time ) CCP Wolfman wrote: Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome. I think its fine. Its something which is random the first deploy, but on the ground you should rely on your own drop uplinks (ground spawns). You can always opt to get a new random sky spawn if you want (if you die, or loose your uplinks). You should always be able to "sky spawn" in the vicinity of squad members (If any squad member is still alive and no drop-uplinks are available). This can be explained with every suite have a weak built in beacon. Suggestion (from merc quarters only): The squad leader have the option to deploy squad or solo. The rest have only the option to deploy solo. This way, one person can initially deploy to act like a LOD Beacon (see comment above), or drop an uplink for the rest of the squad without having to reform. * If squad deploy is selected, they should get the same spawn location (random or squad member) * If all squad members deploy solo without selecting a squad member, they should all get individual random spawns.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1470	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:43:00 - [487] - Quote As to the slight pause between dropping and getting up from the kneel, perhaps the last couple of meters the inertial dampers can can give and extra bit of thrust so you can run as soon as you hit the ground. Look a bit more dignified. I understand from Rouge tweeting earlier that sky spawning is currently just in the salvaging game mode at the moment? But what I've heard from this thread so far I'd like it to be considered for all modes. https://twitter.com/ccp_rouge/status/486896467081056256 CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3224	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:59:00 - [488] - Quote I would like to state that i strongly support the tent pitching idea and should be looked at sooner rather than later to see and test ideas around this area. Though i understand just getting spawning working right now is the priority You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 752	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:02:00 - [489] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I would like to state that i strongly support the tent pitching idea and should be looked at sooner rather than later to see and test ideas around this area. Though i understand just getting spawning working right now is the priority There was discussion a while back talking about how we need somewhere to drop off salvage to make it "ours". What would you think to it brought back to this base for keeps? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect 580	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:37:00 - [490] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? In modes where there are warbarges, keep the ability to spawn on them please, and inside the warbarge it could be like planetside 2, you can access fittings look at a real time map of the battlefield, not by user input, e.g: opening the neocom, but by it actually being there in game. *EVE: LEGION ON PS4!* RIP DUST. You died prematurely: December 2011 to 2nd May 2014

Evolution-7 The Rainbow Effect 580	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:41:00 - [491] - Quote also, credit to the first guy who requested it. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44353 *EVE: LEGION ON PS4!* RIP DUST. You died prematurely: December 2011 to 2nd May 2014
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3225	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:51:00 - [492] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I would like to state that i strongly support the tent pitching idea and should be looked at sooner rather than later to see and test ideas around this area. Though i understand just getting spawning working right now is the priority There was discussion a while back talking about how we need somewhere to drop off salvage to make it "ours". What would you think to it brought back to this base for keeps? I like the idea you could pitch a small base to exfil larger items. So your drone can fish out scarps and spare parts. But if you found a really big modual you could tug it back to base for an rdv to pick up. Or your home area starts deploying scout drones to find sites for you or to protect you etc. Lots can be built of this idea :-) You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 325	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:08:00 - [493] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome. From my tactical point of view, it has more sense to randomly spawn yore entire team on salvage area at the beginning in order to scan scan more land, and after reading results, decide where we planing to set our LODB, where is the most efficient point of map that we will have to cross constantly. I just came up with the idea that we(squad/team) need to have option to share our scan results with each other, or at least with squad commander. Syeven Reed wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I would like to state that i strongly support the tent pitching idea and should be looked at sooner rather than later to see and test ideas around this area. Though i understand just getting spawning working right now is the priority There was discussion a while back talking about how we need somewhere to drop off salvage to make it "ours". What would you think to it brought back to this base for keeps? Taking in to account that 90%+ of items on market will be seed by other players, it force everyone to somehow being involve in salvage site. But as we know from eve not everyone like mining. So I think that we should have role options on salvage site - some of us may enjoy using harvester, or scanning stuff, but we also should have people responding for building 'base' - and we could connect it some how to how we take of salvage from planet. So I see it as everyone poor and rich that join salvage match should be able to use neutral structure that bank his salvage and take it out of planet, but it should be risks for them, because crowd of people can use it, and there can be some bad people that set some trap over there, who count on easy prey. Group of players that want to lower their risk of losing salvage should be able to deploy corporation assets on their base of operation(tent pitching) and use it to secure salvage more safer. To make it look more safely RDV would not be involve in that, but low orbital drops of packages/small cargo containers that open their parachute 50-70 above the ground, and land close to LOD beacon(all in subject of low-profile :P). From that place salvage teleport(modified drone teleport) can be manually install or self-install by pressing right button on terminal, but it can not be use without electronic key that is carry by two individuals of that group - they can be killed early and key can be capture, so they need to be protected(mini-game aspects). To give more tactical meaning to basis they could be armed with electronic warfare equipment, that for example turn off every dropuplinks in some proximity, or reduces the effectiveness of other players scanners.. add noise to other players life basically. What do you think about that? Nosum Hseebnrido
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3225	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:57:00 - [494] - Quote I support base building is a corp activity as it shows a clear purpose for being in a corp. And i support a risky neutral drop of bank that can be mitigated by deploying your own. Running a base though should be soloable, need to keep it system, but i feel it could be somthing that leads to complex outposts with walls for operations that could take days for a corp to clear. To keep this thread on topic i will post my vision tonight as base building as a concept is its own thing :-P You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Severus Smith Caldari State 551	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:29:00 - [495] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: That's why we'll test them out, we're not married to both types. Droplinks do offer different benefits though such as the ability to spawn in an interior so that is something that needs to be taken in to account as well. Sky spawing is awesome, I am so happy to hear that y'all are doing it. One problem for the future (if you expand LOD out of Salvage mode, which you should) is that it will suck for a team who takes an installation and has a "front line" to constantly have to worry about random enemy LOD drops into their base. What would be cool, for the future, is a new installation. Anti-Air Defense System. Basically a flak cannon or something that shoots down LOD capsules. When selecting where to drop on the map enemy AA guns would have a large red circle around them. This is the area you can't LOD into. This mainly just helps teams maintain battlefield control.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2578	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:11:00 - [496] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? Same thoughts as I have/had about it in Dust. As an additional method it's great value added. As an exclusive method is deeply flawed. Addressing the exclusive aspect (as I think the value added side is pretty clear) It removes tactical game play in many ways be eliminating stealth. It increases "redline" behavior due to the ability to kill players on their way in or camp their touch down locations (re-creating the "spawn without cloak" effects of early Dust). It encourages AoE and 'spray and pray' spam as you can just blanket an area with fire for kills, and also it's one of the few counters to be spawn camped. (thus removing the roles of this weapons by making them effectively mandatory rather than niche). Taking the first two bullet points No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Those are great for optional spawns or as a first spawn in effect but as the only option again we're digging into the pre- history of dust with things like people opening fire as they're spawning just in case they're surrounded by hostiles. It recreates situations like the "game show" event back in beta where there was no tactical play for the first portion of the map until opening spawns were all finished and uplinks were in place to establish a battlefield dynamic that wasn't essential a RNG at work. Taking the next two points Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. This is interesting, assuming these spawn mechanics work the way our current spawns do, combined with a general spawn derived from the sky spawn school, that could become very interesting and dynamic. I would append to this however that it should be the default Drop Uplinks and LOD which are squad locked with a verity available that would be team wide. Balance this 'team spawn' type such that it's efficiency (spawn time, fittings cost, number of spawns) was lessor than the squad only iterations. Having squad only is the primary push seems good, but removing possibility for team spawn entirely hobbles emergent and tactical play within more organized contexts such as PC, FW (or whatever Legion equivalents will be). An alternate way to allow team spawn (would require testing of course) would be to make the mCRUs the slowest spawn points but open to team spawn. Thus you'd still have to establish and defend an asset presence on the ground to attain team spawn values, the squad links would be primary, but the mCRUs would provide a unique and tactically viable asset. First thoughts, Cross Vote Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2886	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:19:00 - [497] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock I really dislike this "localized wormhole" lore excuse. It doesn't jive well with EVE lore as a whole, and speaks of some manner of laziness to a better effect, like actually being dropped from... dropships. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 328	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:12:00 - [498] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock I really dislike this "localized wormhole" lore excuse. It doesn't jive well with EVE lore as a whole, and speaks of some manner of laziness to a better effect, like actually being dropped from... dropships. I don't have any major problem with the proposed lore explanation, as long as we originate from a (small) ship in orbit. My reason is that it have the potential to give us new gameplay options in the future, both for EVE and Legion. (One can dream, right? ) However I like the idea of using a dropship, but mainly as an instrument of extraction. While it's convenient to just "drop dead" to leave the planet, I think it could be cool to have some form of extraction point that we have to reach to successfully retrieve all the loot we gathered. If there are no enemies around (Players and Drones), the automated dropship can be brought down right where we are, like an RDV. If the zone is hot, it will place a beacon some distance away which has to be reached for successful extraction. I guess we can kill players and steal their harvester (loot), so why would it magically "clone jump" with us when we self terminate?
Averllik WarRavens Final Resolution. 1	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:43:00 - [499] - Quote -The whole allure of eve is there is many planets and systems you can go to, that people have not even found yet. There are places where you can find destroyed space stations, ships, abandoned colonies and extinct civilizations. Now these types of environments should be open for legion members to explore, so that they can salvage whatGÇÖs remaining there, kind of like how they found the clone technology in the dust trailer. It also opens the doors for multiple maps with in one environment as you can do one mission on the same ship over and over but each time choosing a different section to explore till back into different parts of planet, ship etc and finding different things. Of course Salvage Skills will apply so you may want to create a squad mixed with combat and salvage players, this makes the game more versatile so that players can be protected while gaining loot, similar to how corps will mine in null space or go in guns blazing and take out other people who found the location as well. -Personal Contract Orders: (Which can be done by using scan skills on a map of his/her choosing within populated space, where a clone hub could be in close proximity, so that you are able to reach the destination. Once scanned and you find a beacon its relayed to a console and you can create a contract which can be set open for all to see or just for yourself and the team you choose or randomly enlist, either way your contract gives you a % of the salvage.) -Corporation Contract Orders: Now this is where your Corporation in EVE and Legion can combine skills using ships in EVE to scan locations as they do already with probes and relaying it back to the legion as a contract option, of course these sort of missions can still vary but it opens the map up to areas of the universe currently unexplored, harder to get to or is with in another factions territory, which you may have bad standing with (for example you took out a convoy of Caldiri troops moving supplies on another contract). These sort of contractors similar in design to above, can be set up for anyone to accept or set for corporations or alliance all depends on how much you want to earn money for your corporation yourself and gain better standings. -PC Contract Orders: Lastly for a truly combined effort to gain salvage, EVE and Legion need to combine, as for scans in some parts of Null Sec space requires friendly ships to be in the area so that they can be used as a clone hub. This can be made similar to PC fights, timing the efforts of both games to get the best results. (could even involve Valkyrie like the their trailer) Of course other alliances who use counter intelligence and have an ear to the ground may wish to counter your offensive and fight you ship to ship creating opportunities for ship boarding changing the events of the mission temporally at least till someone comes out on top or join you to fight the AI guarding the ground and air or it could just turn into a three way fight between AI & PVP once one side has already landed and engaged) Either way each event you can get your salvage gear out and take from the dead bodies, and from the ship, all to be sold on a global market which can be sold for use on eve ships and vice versa or just keep it if itGÇÖs still usable items. -(Of course I do hope planetary conquest will still be in effect, similar to salvage locations, where you can instead find new planets for your corporation or take from the enemyGÇÖs pre-existing locations that includes factional warfare as well. Which will truly effect & Change the course of EVE.) -Factional Contracts: As I mentioned above in the way the game could interact with missions and the ability for salvage both combined allow for the creation of a dynamic game play that can change mid game, the AI should not just be subjected to Drones but other Automated Defence systems, and in some maps, salvage could be actual military base equipment guarded by AI soldiers who upon death drop loot boxes, either they are factional units or Pirates, loot is loot and your choice of who you are fighting for creates positive and negative standings for your character, which can affect the type of factional contracts you can get. -Through passive game play people can join the fighting for or against the defence of bases and equipment as seen in Dust which depending on the contract and location could be PvP or PvAI or PvP & PvAI. -All AI should react differently depending on the Contract and its location there should be a Mission level Notice stating the difficulty and this determines how many enemyGÇÖs may be deployed and how hard they are to beat and the traps that could be awaiting you when searching through an ancient ruined city etc..
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11754	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:33:00 - [500] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: That's why we'll test them out, we're not married to both types. Droplinks do offer different benefits though such as the ability to spawn in an interior so that is something that needs to be taken in to account as well. Would it be possible in future to use these "Drop Spawn points" to land a vehicle from Orbit? "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon

Dnaizohd Orlenaard Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:28:00 - [501] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Drifting? http://youtu.be/2_I-kLXIXAU?t=2m34s 2:34 Perhaps we should be able to drop from a certain height like in the video, so we're able to take a look at the overall location and plan. I also think the Inertia dampeners should be activated at a certain altitude at least, or have some sort of interesting mechanic, just at least so we don't see people just activating them right at the last second (as we see in a couple of Dust videos). Try EVE: Online with this link and get rewards!: https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=1a9dbe71-b180-4b3b-a590-0a0517
Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 32	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:57:00 - [502] - Quote 26 pages as of this post so forgive me if my ideas were already said. (I plan to read every page soon ) - Few Ideas to add -Storyline Salvage areas after a main event. Such as when the Leviathan was destroyed. That would open up crap loads of loot sites with wrecked Titan pieces on Caldari Prime. Or when the Nyx Supercarrier (Gallente) rammed the Caldari station. - I would love to see joint salvage expeditions between eve pilots and Mercs. Such as sites in space that an Eve pilot can ferry mercs to for a cost. Or have it so that there is rare loot that Eve pilots look for and can use themselves thus making it profitable for both parties involved. -I agree with everyone here that said Drones need tiers. -Highsec should have drones that can be soloed for the newbies. (standard Salvage drones) - Lowsec should have drones that can be soloed by someone with high skills and excellent gear however promotes the newbies to squad up with good AI that can adapt to most things. (Salvage drones and possible rouge drones) -Nullsec should have the nastiest drones in some cases that require good players to Squad up. (with some solo-able exceptions. (Rouge Drones and even nastier Rouge Drones) -Wormholes? I shudder to think what evil ccp can think of to make those sleeper drones devastating. -Sandbox environment. All loot salvaging sites should have a way that some unwanted person or squad can enter. Like in Eve and the dedspace complexes. It is hard to catch someone in them however it is possible if they are not paying attention. Gives the opportunity for cooperation, competition, and Awoxing (betrayal) -Random terrain generation (If possible) would keep loot salvaging interesting. One time you find a crate of Thale's in a truck on a road. Another time you find a Crate of Thales in the A** end of nowhere surrounded By lava and drones but the terrain is different each time. I am sure I have more but I digress before I enter a giant wall of text. -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
Forlorn Destrier Vengeance Unbound 2670	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:28:00 - [503] - Quote Scenario: Squad Member 1 spawns first, landing in a ramdom location. Upon landing she/he puts out an LODB. The rest of the squad deploy to the becon. While they are in transit, random player destoys the LODB. What happens to players in transit? Do they lose their way? Do they now deploy to a random location within "x" meters of becon (say within 100-200 meters), so they can still regroup, but they aren't as far as they would be if they had randomly deployed? etc I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 910	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:31:00 - [504] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Scenario: Squad Member 1 spawns first, landing in a ramdom location. Upon landing she/he puts out an LODB. The rest of the squad deploy to the becon. While they are in transit, random player destoys the LODB. What happens to players in transit? Do they lose their way? Do they now deploy to a random location within "x" meters of becon (say within 100-200 meters), so they can still regroup, but they aren't as far as they would be if they had randomly deployed? etc Just like in Eve if a cynosural field is popped while capital ships are en route; arrivals are scattered around a wide area. Dust/Eve transfers
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2006	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:19:00 - [505] - Quote only thing i want to know is how you plan on players "banking" loot my guess is a hub in fixed locations. which brings me to point two. what are your plans to prevent camping of said places. since some or all of dust weapons are going to transfer over. whats stopping someone from forge snipe camp to steal everyone in that match loot with a one shot kill weapon.(also thinking REs). because this will be more profitable then going out and risk fighting players and drones randomly. the threat table just isn't to cut it and you time on it seems low, very low. i was thinking in terms of days(online active not RL) to down grade not seconds.if it takes less then 8 hours to downgrade from top to bottom i can see the threat system being abused to "bank" camping without drone interference. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 334	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:23:00 - [506] - Quote ladwar wrote: only thing i want to know is how you plan on players "banking" loot my guess is a hub in fixed locations. which brings me to point two. what are your plans to prevent camping of said places. since some or all of dust weapons are going to transfer over. whats stopping someone from forge snipe camp to steal everyone in that match loot with a one shot kill weapon.(also thinking REs). because this will be more profitable then going out and risk fighting players and drones randomly. the threat table just isn't to cut it and you time on it seems low, very low. i was thinking in terms of days(online active not RL) to down grade not seconds.if it takes less then 8 hours to downgrade from top to bottom i can see the threat system being abused to "bank" camping without drone interference. My guess is: "they dont" (right now). But if they implement some form of "banking", I would be strongly against fixed locations for the exact reason you mentioned. I suggested a mechanism where you call down some form of automated dropship for extraction. This makes you in control (roughly) of the "banking" point, and can call it in whenever you want.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 326	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:39:00 - [507] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: [ So I see it as everyone poor and rich that join salvage match should be able to use neutral structure that bank his salvage and take it out of planet, but it should be risks for them, because crowd of people can use it, and there can be some bad people that set some trap over there, who count on easy prey. Group of players that want to lower their risk of losing salvage should be able to deploy corporation assets on their base of operation(tent pitching) and use it to secure salvage more safer. To make it look more safely RDV would not be involve in that, but low orbital drops of packages/small cargo containers that open their parachute 50-70 above the ground, and land close to LOD beacon(all in subject of low-profile :P). From that place salvage teleport(modified drone teleport) can be manually install or self-install by pressing right button on terminal, but it can not be use without electronic key that is carry by two individuals of that group - they can be killed early and key can be capture, so they need to be protected(mini-game aspects). To give more tactical meaning to basis they could be armed with electronic warfare equipment, that for example turn off every dropuplinks in some proximity, or reduces the effectiveness of other players scanners.. add noise to other players life basically. What do you think about that? I wanted to add to my idea of deployed assets that salvage teleport should be able to "bank" and teleport to orbit also other deployed structures, like other group of players salvage teleport. It will include more piracy aspect in to the game. Nosum Hseebnrido
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3233	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:24:00 - [508] - Quote i vote a deployable LOS you can call down or set up as your bank location, so you dont want it right next to the site so you dont get camped but also not to far away that it takes ages to walk to it, im very much for players have as much control over these sorts of things to prevent other players gameing the system You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 758	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:09:00 - [509] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: i vote a deployable LOS you can call down or set up as your bank location, so you dont want it right next to the site so you dont get camped but also not to far away that it takes ages to walk to it, I'm very much for players have as much control over these sorts of things to prevent other players gameing the system I second this! Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8863	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:22:00 - [510] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: i vote a deployable LOS you can call down or set up as your bank location, so you dont want it right next to the site so you dont get camped but also not to far away that it takes ages to walk to it, im very much for players have as much control over these sorts of things to prevent other players gameing the system This sounds doable especially since CCP released mobile units in Eve Online such as the Mobile Siphon Units, Mobile Depots, and Mobile Tractor Units. Source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Personal_Deployable_Structures However, there is a disclaimer in Eve regarding these mobile units. Quote: Warning: It's worth remembering that if a Mobile Depot is attacked in a high sec system, the attacker will NOT be punished by Concord! He will only receive a suspect flag On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3214	Posted - 2014.07.15 02:21:00 - [511] - Quote So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB?

Oceltot Mortalis 33	Posted - 2014.07.15 02:24:00 - [512] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB? That's a good point, maybe have it like a flight simulator, where you can pull up to gain distance, or orient down to drop more straight. With rotation in there of course. Controlled by WASD keys. In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 913	Posted - 2014.07.15 03:13:00 - [513] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB? look in different direction: mouse drift towards/away from where you're looking: W/S strafe-drift left or right: A/S Dust/Eve transfers
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8869	Posted - 2014.07.15 03:23:00 - [514] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB? I would put it like this assuming you are going straight down. Mouse: Looking around. Has no bearing on which direction you actually fall but it should spring back to center after a moment of not looking around. Keyboard (W & S keys): Drift forward or back during fall at a rate of approximately 1-2 meters for every 10 meters you fall depending on suit type. The heavier the suit, the less you're able to drift due to mass. Keyboard (A & D keys): Drift left or right during fall at same rate as described above. Keyboard (Q & E keys): Rotate left or right during fall. Rate of turn determined by suit type. Alternative: Mouse could be used to rotate left or right during fall. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 914	Posted - 2014.07.15 03:47:00 - [515] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I would put it like this assuming you are going straight down. Mouse: Looking around. Has no bearing on which direction you actually fall but it should spring back to center after a moment of not looking around. This is not how mouse input works and you will make every mouse user hate you if you do this. Dust/Eve transfers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6300	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:46:00 - [516] - Quote No reason to over-complicate it. Given enough height, you'll be able to see everything necessary on your way down anyway, so just lock the camera to the downward Z-axis and allow movement on the X/Y-axis through AWSD, respectively (or arrow keys, if you're insane). Maybe even allow the mouse movement to rotate the drift so you can hit the ground facing the right direction. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11858	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:50:00 - [517] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZGrTzVoZ_k 2:24 on wards please. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 335	Posted - 2014.07.15 05:56:00 - [518] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB? look in different direction: mouse drift towards/away from where you're looking: W/S strafe-drift left or right: A/S ^ This Let's keep things simple... I would also recommend to keep the horizontal movement while drifting similar to Dust levels. You don't want to be able to drift to the other side of the map,... maximum a couple of hundred meters from the Z axis point of origin.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3216	Posted - 2014.07.15 06:07:00 - [519] - Quote Thanks guys, good sanity check. Current plan is WASD, for forward, left, back, right and mouse left/right for rotation. There could be some truth in the opinion that rotation isnGÇÖt needed for a test but weGÇÖll see.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 336	Posted - 2014.07.15 06:38:00 - [520] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Maybe even allow the mouse movement to rotate the drift so you can hit the ground facing the right direction. ^ This is the (IMHO) the most important aspect of "looking around" while drifting. As Aeon states, we will probably be able to see everything anyway with a fixed direction / camera, but the ability to land in the direction of your choice is vital.

Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 256	Posted - 2014.07.15 08:22:00 - [521] - Quote Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. Not to mention the opportunity to look at your squad mates and enjoy some light gossip on the way down :)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 915	Posted - 2014.07.15 08:38:00 - [522] - Quote Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Dust/Eve transfers
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6302	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:08:00 - [523] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Admittedly, that is pretty cool. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Oceltot Mortalis 33	Posted - 2014.07.15 11:44:00 - [524] - Quote it would be cool to be in third person view for the fall, and bring the camera in when we land. In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.07.15 21:53:00 - [525] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting? Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky. Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent. Lore? Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns. You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. Droplinks used by more than just squads? For now itGÇÖs just squad. We are hoping to give the player the option when deploying for it to be personal/squad/team. Completely random? ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop. Calling in a small building, base of operations? By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step. Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome. The idea sounds alright, I am trying to figure out how stealthy players want to enter/reenter the battlefield without a obvious signature falling out of the sky. I have expressed my opinion on it before https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1560444#post1560444. I don't think I need to reiterate on it here. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11883	Posted - 2014.07.15 22:07:00 - [526] - Quote Kaughst wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up. Drifting? Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky. Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent. Lore? Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns. You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. Droplinks used by more than just squads? For now itGÇÖs just squad. We are hoping to give the player the option when deploying for it to be personal/squad/team. Completely random? ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop. Calling in a small building, base of operations? By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step. Squads Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome. The idea sounds alright, I am trying to figure out how stealthy players want to enter/reenter the battlefield without a obvious signature falling out of the sky. I have expressed my opinion on it before https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1560444#post1560444. I don't think I need to reiterate on it here. Stealthy players then should be using Uplinks as Wolfman said before. However I am inclined to suggest that even Uplinks would give off energy spikes every time someone warped onto one...... "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 258	Posted - 2014.07.16 02:04:00 - [527] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 919	Posted - 2014.07.16 02:35:00 - [528] - Quote Ghural wrote: Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. This is a vanity micro transaction I could get behind. Dust/Eve transfers

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3227	Posted - 2014.07.16 03:23:00 - [529] - Quote Ghural wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. I LOVE THIS!

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 49	Posted - 2014.07.16 03:30:00 - [530] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ghural wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. I LOVE THIS! Could be also make our inertia damps make a sonic rainboom pls? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15932	Posted - 2014.07.16 04:01:00 - [531] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ghural wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. I LOVE THIS! Inbound cosmetics.... though I wouldn't mind this at all. Nothing screams louder than come shoot me, I spent money on this, after all. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6319	Posted - 2014.07.16 04:03:00 - [532] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ghural wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. I LOVE THIS! CAN WE HAVE GODZILLA TOO?! Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 259	Posted - 2014.07.16 04:07:00 - [533] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ghural wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. I LOVE THIS! And behold, Legions headline feature has been born.
Ghural The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 259	Posted - 2014.07.16 09:33:00 - [534] - Quote You know. All joking aside. I think this could be a useful thing to include. Lots of pro players would love to announce their arrival in a spectacular fashion. Think of it as a futuristic way of saying "come at me bro". Imagine arriving at your destination, your think you've got the loot to yourself. Then you happen to look up the sky and find it filled with streams of burning embers and smoke in the colours of a rival corp. Of course you should also have the option of a quieter entrance. But there is something to be said for a grand entrance that strikes terror into your enemies hearts.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3888	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:07:00 - [535] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ok, next topic! This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ. Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped: No default spawns. When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map. Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map. Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad. Thoughts? I feel that it would add an important strategic component to the game if Drop Uplinks were short range, meaning they need a source of clones on the planetGÇÖs surface to operate. (MCC, DCC, CRU). A CRU should be are larger more powerful Uplink that can access clones from the Warbarge in orbit. A CRU should also act like a router, to shunt clones from the Warbarge in space, to Drop Uplinks on the ground. Therefore Sky Spawn should be the only way to deploy until you manage to call in or capture a CRU or some other source of clones. Doing so should be a strategic objective in order to get the Drop Uplinks working. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3888	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:11:00 - [536] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: That's why we'll test them out, we're not married to both types. Droplinks do offer different benefits though such as the ability to spawn in an interior so that is something that needs to be taken in to account as well. Drop Uplinks should get you on the ground faster than Sky Spawn. Sky Spawn should be a slower way to get back into the fight. Spawn time + Drop time should be a lot longer than using an uplink. Also, I don't think that any equipment or device should be needed for Sky Spawn. I do think you need to add drift (there is controlled drift in DUST currently when falling a long way as long as you don't apply your dampeners until the last minute.) It is the drift that should allow you to pick your drop zone rather than any equipment. It also gives them something to do while dropping, so that even though it takes longer than just spawning on an uplink it feels like you are already in the game and doing something rather than watching a timber count down. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3889	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:22:00 - [537] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB? How is Drift controlled in DUST using MKB? I use drift often when jumping off towers to land on lower sections of the tower, or when jumping out of the MCC to avoid landing on RDVGÇÖs or buildings, but I play with the DS3 controller Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 327	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:37:00 - [538] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Thanks guys, good sanity check. Current plan is WASD, for forward, left, back, right and mouse left/right for rotation. There could be some truth in the opinion that rotation isnGÇÖt needed for a test but weGÇÖll see. ooh.. what about arrow position, sitting position and option to flying on back? Wolfman just take few people from office to local drop zone and try it - it will clear your mind. Nosum Hseebnrido
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 531	Posted - 2014.07.16 20:07:00 - [539] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Ghural wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ghural wrote: Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall. I LOVE THIS! Now I have this mental image of a well-known Corp, like the Goons, spawning into the atmosphere with their dropsuits and dropships and using colored smoke trails to draw their icon into the sky. Everyone on the ground goes "oh **" and either calls for reinforcements, or logs out because ** those guys.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 922	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:46:00 - [540] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: How is Drift controlled in DUST using MKB? I use drift often when jumping off towers to land on lower sections of the tower, or when jumping out of the MCC to avoid landing on RDVGÇÖs or buildings, but I play with the DS3 controller WSAD same as I described, just without any way to change facing. Dust/Eve transfers

Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 334	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:36:00 - [541] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Now I have this mental image of a well-known Corp, like the Goons, spawning into the atmosphere with their dropsuits and dropships and using colored smoke trails to draw their icon into the sky. Everyone on the ground goes "oh **" and either calls for reinforcements, or logs out because those guys. Ow ! It's a goooons!! SponkSponkSponk wrote: Fox Gaden wrote:** How is Drift controlled in DUST using MKB? I use drift often when jumping off towers to land on lower sections of the tower, or when jumping out of the MCC to avoid landing on RDVGÇÖs or buildings, but I play with the DS3 controller WSAD same as I described, just without any way to change facing. You have option to change facing till the game realize it is jump from high attitude. It's like jumping on flat ground - you can do what ever you want above the ground, but if you felt in to some hole in ground game instantly lock you down with interia dampener mechanic. So if someone would like to cut some developing time in CCP. He could separate basic position(when you see your hands on screen) from lock on mouse, and add that lock to moment when player activate interia. When player would appear on high attitude above the ground he would all the time have that hands on screen, and he would have option to look around, and when the times come he would activate ID and have lock on screen. It would work just fine. "You can do something right, or right now" I do not know who said it, but this is very much a truth. I imagine this mechanic to be build "right" in Legion, but you can not have everything you want, right? Beside it would be cool if you(CCP) would ask someone from local drop zone(I'm not joking) what he think about this mechanic, I bet he may be really helpful. Look at this as part of advertisement, many people was pull in to EVE because you had this wonderful economic and person in CCP staff responsible of how it evolve in game. Just give him some NDA contract to sign, and let him have look at what you are testing, and what he think about it. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.07.25 17:24:00 - [542] - Quote What kind of Jobs will we unlock that adhere to PvE and salvage per PC Gamer article? source ATC
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 186	Posted - 2014.07.27 14:05:00 - [543] - Quote Any feedback on how the testing went for "sky spawning" and drifting ? How did it look and feel ? GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8925	Posted - 2014.07.28 02:29:00 - [544] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Any feedback on how the testing went for "sky spawning" and drifting ? How did it look and feel ? I like to know as well. Preferably with a video. Pwetty Pwease with a Chewwy on Top? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 3243	Posted - 2014.07.31 07:28:00 - [545] - Quote Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass!

Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 801	Posted - 2014.07.31 07:30:00 - [546] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: making you feel like a badass! Im always happy for more of this!! Word Crimes 21Day Free Trial
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3268	Posted - 2014.07.31 09:13:00 - [547] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Any chance we can see video or somthing to back this up? Legion has every chance to be awsome but i kinda feel i need to see it before a believe it. This is my poor bait attempt at seeing footage :-P You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
Dnaizohd Orlenaard Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.07.31 11:16:00 - [548] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Great to know! Love hearing about interesting mechanics being worked on! Try EVE: Online with this link and get rewards!: https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=1a9dbe71-b180-4b3b-a590-0a0517
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6491	Posted - 2014.07.31 11:18:00 - [549] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Can we have a video? Please? Pretty pretty pretty please with honeyed lamb on top? I'll cut my wrists for all powerful Wolfman - I'll carve your name in my flesh JUST GIVE US A VIDEO PLEASE I NEED MY FIX MAN No More Excuses
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 802	Posted - 2014.07.31 11:37:00 - [550] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Can we have a video? Please? Pretty pretty pretty please with honeyed lamb on top? I'll cut my wrists for all powerful Wolfman - I'll carve your name in my flesh JUST GIVE US A VIDEO PLEASE I NEED MY FIX MAN Well that escalated quickly! Word Crimes 21Day Free Trial

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2173	Posted - 2014.07.31 15:18:00 - [551] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Any chance we can see video or somthing to back this up? Legion has every chance to be awsome but i kinda feel i need to see it before a believe it. This is my poor bait attempt at seeing footage :-P Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Can we have a video? Please? Pretty pretty pretty please with honeyed lamb on top? I'll cut my wrists for all powerful Wolfman - I'll carve your name in my flesh JUST GIVE US A VIDEO PLEASE I NEED MY FIX MAN Imo these are fair requests, reason being that the real question about Legion isn't graphics or game design features, but the basic fps movement, control and environment interaction mechanics. This is the area where CCP failed hardest, basically defeated by the technical difficulties of producing a shooter, let alone one that handles well enough to be a positive and enjoyable experience. This is what everybody in the industry is waiting to see. Failure here killed DUST and will kill Legion. Let's take a peek at the foundations before we spend another handful of years building a house on sand that ends up wasting everyboy's time when it comes down. I know that sounds harsh, but it is entirely reasonable given where we've been and are, again, today. PSN: RationalSpark
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1236	Posted - 2014.07.31 15:43:00 - [552] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Curious if you think this mechanic further reduces the incentive or relevance of MCRUs in Dropships? As a side note...do think it might be possible to come on the Biomassed Podcast and chat with us about some of these features? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 186	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:18:00 - [553] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Any chance we can see video or somthing to back this up? Legion has every chance to be awsome but i kinda feel i need to see it before a believe it. This is my poor bait attempt at seeing footage :-P Thanks for the update. Agree with steady, video would be awesome. GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8938	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:43:00 - [554] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Any chance we can see video or somthing to back this up? Legion has every chance to be awsome but i kinda feel i need to see it before a believe it. This is my poor bait attempt at seeing footage :-P Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Can we have a video? Please? Pretty pretty pretty please with honeyed lamb on top? I'll cut my wrists for all powerful Wolfman - I'll carve your name in my flesh JUST GIVE US A VIDEO PLEASE I NEED MY FIX MAN Imo these are fair requests, reason being that the real question about Legion isn't graphics or game design features, but the basic fps movement, control and environment interaction mechanics. This is the area where CCP failed hardest, basically defeated by the technical difficulties of producing a shooter, let alone one that handles well enough to be a positive and enjoyable experience. This is what everybody in the industry is waiting to see. Failure here killed DUST and will kill Legion. Let's take a peek at the foundations before we spend another handful of years building a house on sand that ends up wasting everyboy's time when it comes down. I know that sounds harsh, but it is entirely reasonable given where we've been and are, again, today. Excellent point. The problem with CCP just posting descriptions of what they did and never showing footage before releasing the updates is that what they say often sounded different from what was actually seen. Let me give you an example: When CCP made an announcement long ago about introducing Commando suits in Dust, the way they were describing the suits during the blogs and interviews made it seem as if you could dual-wield with these suits. But that wasn't the case. CCP meant that you can carry two light weapons but you just couldn't dual-wield with them like you see in games like Halo. It's just that CCP has a poor way of wording things. This is just one of many examples. Therefore a video will help greatly in alleviating any confusion. In fact, CCP MC Peanut once posted a video on YouTube showing the changes made to the HUD. Sadly it was taken down from YouTube for some reason but it helped the community better understand the changes that were expected to come with Legion and further allowed players to properly critique the changes and thus everyone loves CCP MC Peanut for that. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1525	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:53:00 - [555] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Awesome sauce!! CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 336	Posted - 2014.08.01 01:18:00 - [556] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Cool, cool indeed.. If you can not give us screenshots could you at least tell us how high GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ is placed - how long it takes to touch ground after spawning on it? Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club 4861	Posted - 2014.08.01 04:04:00 - [557] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Life there is life! Earn 500Mil EVE 21 Day Trial Chat Channel: Vik PC
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 222	Posted - 2014.08.01 13:43:00 - [558] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! That, Sir, sounds awesome. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Dnaizohd Orlenaard Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:40:00 - [559] - Quote https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229TTSGeRKI&list=PLul12rRxdZ1948ZgIUruLzzGlivscaBIQ&index=5 Perhaps we could get a video similar like the one above (a video Devblog?), on where Project Legion is at the moment also a confirmation about the greenlight would be good! It's probably a lot of work to get it done, but I think it's safe to say that everyone's kinda hungry to see just a little bit of new stuff. That or a Livestream showing off the new stuff, like the folks at BeHaviour Interactive have been doing (the creators of WH40k: Eternal Crusade). Not only will it help make more people interested, but would also create ways for us to interact more with the development process (providing feedback etc) Try EVE: Online with this link and get rewards!: https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=1a9dbe71-b180-4b3b-a590-0a0517
Ghural Pradox One Proficiency V. 293	Posted - 2014.08.02 03:01:00 - [560] - Quote Dnaizohd Orlenaard wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229TTSGeRKI&list=PLul12rRxdZ1948ZgIUruLzzGlivscaBIQ&index=5 Perhaps we could get a video similar like the one above (a video Devblog?), on where Project Legion is at the moment also a confirmation about the greenlight would be good! It's probably a lot of work to get it done, but I think it's safe to say that everyone's kinda hungry to see just a little bit of new stuff. That or a Livestream showing off the new stuff, like the folks at BeHaviour Interactive have been doing (the creators of WH40k: Eternal Crusade). Not only will it help make more people interested, but would also create ways for us to interact more with the development process (providing feedback etc) No no no no no. After two years of broken promises and false hope the only video I want to see next is "Legion has been greenlit"

Ghural Bear Pradox One Proficiency V. 298	Posted - 2014.08.02 03:01:00 - [561] - Quote Dnaizohd Orlenaard wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229TTSGeRKI&list=PLul12rRxdZ1948ZgIUruLzzGlivscaBIQ&index=5 Perhaps we could get a video similar like the one above (a video Devblog?), on where Project Legion is at the moment also a confirmation about the greenlight would be good! It's probably a lot of work to get it done, but I think it's safe to say that everyone's kinda hungry to see just a little bit of new stuff. That or a Livestream showing off the new stuff, like the folks at BeHaviour Interactive have been doing (the creators of WH40k: Eternal Crusade). Not only will it help make more people interested, but would also create ways for us to interact more with the development process (providing feedback etc) No no no no no. After two years of broken promises and false hope the only video I want to see next is "Legion has been greenlit"
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 334	Posted - 2014.08.06 04:29:00 - [562] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind. So how do we get the salvage off the planet then...? To me your mechanic of appearing via wormholes and then jump cloning away, while easy to implement, has all sorts of issues with fitting in to the New Eden universe, dealing with transferring physical thing, and just plain making sense. It also misses out on one of the coolest things about New Eden... AWESOME SHIPS!!! What if instead people landed on planets and left planets via ships? What could that look like? New players Are dropped in from orbit in small craft. These craft are compact, carrying the limited number of clones and equipment you choose to bring. The fee for deploying to salvage is really just the cost for this pod. Upon hitting atmo you steer the craft towards your landing zone of choice, using the drop + drift mechanic already being worked on. After landing the pod acts as your personal CRU. Your objective is to salvage what you can, and get it back to your pod. When you are ready to go the pod ditches any extra clones you have (making room for your salvage), you load up and it returns you to orbit. Squads Early on you would each deploy in your pod, but I think this is a great area to add some interesting gameplay. Let players be able to skill into and buy a much larger landing craft. Some might be big enough for 3 persons, some 6, some 6 + extended clones. Perhaps they can get big enough to include a limited number of vehicles in them (think C130 landing with a tank + squad). You could have some that just land like a pod and have defenses, you could have some that can fly around dropship style providing cover. So many cool ships! So picture this in your mind. The squad is standing around in a cruisers flight bay up in orbit. The pilot selects a landing craft he is proficient in and its set down on the flight deck. Each squad member goes up to it and selects their gear, filling up their allotted space with suits, vehicles, etc. When ready the squad deploys. You get a loading screen of the ship deploying from the cruiser in orbit, and heading to atmo. On finishing loading your squad is in the ship, at altitude dropping down. The pilot flies you around, you might be scanning for salvage or looking for merc / drone activity. When you find a target you drop low and land, deploy a squad CRU, any vehicles you have, and get to work. The pilot takes off, scanning for the next site for you. Your squad busts into a drone hive, slaughtering all of its defenders. You spend a few minutes salvaging tech, downloading bits from the hive mainframe, etc... and then hoof it back outside. But its an ambush. A rival squad saw you deploy and set up camp, waiting for you to come out of the hive. A firefight ensues, but its not looking good. Just then your dropship gets back into range and lays down some covering fire. You kill your attackers, and salvage their corpses for good measure. With no nearby sites reported by the pilot you all load up and fly back to orbit. I just... dunno. That sounds so much cooler than using space magic to appear and then disappear from the planet. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Bat Shard0 Stardust Incorporation 63	Posted - 2014.08.08 18:22:00 - [563] - Quote +1 for that idea. If you really want make it open world of course http://dust514news.blogspot.com/
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9026	Posted - 2014.08.11 01:46:00 - [564] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: New players Are dropped in from orbit in small craft. These craft are compact, carrying the limited number of clones and equipment you choose to bring. The fee for deploying to salvage is really just the cost for this pod. Upon hitting atmo you steer the craft towards your landing zone of choice, using the drop + drift mechanic already being worked on. After landing the pod acts as your personal CRU. Your objective is to salvage what you can, and get it back to your pod. When you are ready to go the pod ditches any extra clones you have (making room for your salvage), you load up and it returns you to orbit. I have to disagree with that last bit there. I don't like it. Generally if you're going in with a pod that doubles as a CRU for the sole purpose of salvaging goods, then the pod would already be fitted to account for that. It's not logical to have the game automatically dump your current payload just for the salvage. I suggest making it only as an option for the player to decide whether or not he/she would want to dump the remainder of the clone pack just for extra room. If a player only has about 100m^3 of cargo space in his pod and his salvage takes up 150m^3, then he will have to make a choice. Dump some clones for the extra 50m^3 or dump 50m^3 worth of salvage in order to fit it into the pod. Choices are important. Alternatively, the single player would invest ahead of time on a pod that has larger capacity with the same amount of clones if he can afford it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Andris Kronis Legio DXIV 59	Posted - 2014.08.12 03:36:00 - [565] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=wingsuit&tbm=vid If you are not already a fan of wingsuit videos I must plead with you to at least watch a couple. My personal favorite is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWfph3iNC-k Jeb Corliss - Grinding the Crack. If pressed for time you could just watch this one. If there is any chance to add in this sort of optional flight mechanic it would be incredible. We could even have minigames inside our corps to see if we could fly to and land on a specific point on a map. Stealth assault by air a good distance from the spawn in point .... awesome. Just use the Shift key (Run) to activate wingsuit option. Please allow Q and E rotation of the falling merc, people saying its not needed have possibly not thought deeply enough about the options it opens up to a group. For example an entire squad falling around a central spot, all facing outwards. Looking about with mouse movements would also help with the already limited field of view. The stand up from drop crouch mechanic, as has been stated by others, is too slow. First thing I would buy as a merc is buy the upgrade that doesn't make me hit so hard I have to crouch and give my enemies .5 seconds to shoot at me for free. The second thing I would buy would be the upgrade that allows me to rocket boost over small obstacles and jump up to sniper roosts and on top of objectives. Third thing to buy would be the ability to deploy already seated on my single seater hover bike, front facing rail cannon an optional extra. If I have to call the bike during the fall and jump on it, all the better for awesomeness. "Corporation slogan coming to a sig near you"
DiablosMajora Occultum Scientia Black Flame. 28	Posted - 2014.08.13 23:46:00 - [566] - Quote Missions. And I mean in the EVE-style way. Assuming the map is large enough -> Example: You an a squad of m8s are landing on a nearby planet because you have taken up a mission from the local Agent. This particular mission of the Encounter subset, where you have all been given some small backstory (Agent's Corporation is mining in the District and drones are doing hit-and-runs on the operation. Go to the District and eliminate the drone threat). One can then: 1) eliminate the drones and take their stuff and/or 2) completely sabotage the operation, lose standing, and get other stuff. On a mission of higher difficulty, PvP elements can be introduced where randoms can come in and initiate a fight over the mission reward (and your stuff). TLDR: Missions in the same manner that EVE does it. Prepare your angus
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 211	Posted - 2014.08.16 17:49:00 - [567] - Quote This thread is feeling lonely and would like a Dev to cuddle it with words of progress updates. #thumbsup Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 849	Posted - 2014.08.18 04:39:00 - [568] - Quote A bit of an incomplete idea but here goes. Salvage or just random pieces of salvage should have a "toxicity" level that accumulates in your clone over time or with more toxic items in inventory. This would affect the overall health of your clone meaning you are running a higher risk by carrying it around longer instead of dropping it by a supply station or orbital pickup point (whatever you want to call them). "Orbital pick up locations" gives a viable story line to how your loot is reclaimed when your clone is never actually leaving the planet. You should even have to return to one of these to leave without losing your gear or the money spent for your clone. Having these drop off stations spread thinner and thinner as security status gets lower creates a larger risk of losing what you have collected. These drop offs would represent ambush points that you would have to put either a deal of strategy or team work into approaching to offload your loot. Corporations of Eve would be able to drop these stations in exchange for only being able to use them if greater than X standings with said corp or by paying certain taxes. These corporations would also then want to pay their Legion players to protect these stations so that they are able to make money off of them instead of pirates looting every player that comes near it. Sorry if that all sounded like a bunch of incomplete thoughts I will try to update this with more detail on what I am thinking later.
Soulja Ghostface 2648	Posted - 2014.08.25 16:06:00 - [569] - Quote Title said sky spawn so... Ditching the MCC? What are we jumping out or off of to deploy to the planets? Just picture it. Activating your inertia dampener from space and your free falling while loading the map, When finished loading you land in the district! Titanfall what? Bring These Back Tanker Turned Ads Pilot
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5856	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:13:00 - [570] - Quote -What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? Good salvage, or salvage in general? For salvage in general, I guess there could be specialized scanners to find buried stuff. For GOOD salvage, There could be obvious wrecks or ruins that have good stuff deep inside them: however, these would obviously attract players and more drones. -What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? Why not let the players themselves decide how they want to interact? Everything goes. However I like the idea of stealing someone's salvage while they're busy being swarmed by drones. -How do you think drones should behave? There should be several types of drones: namely salvagers and their escorts. Get within scan range of any drone and expect trouble. Attacking one as well would draw aggro, obviously. However, I also like the idea of disabling a drone and hacking it to make it work for you. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè

Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5856	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:14:00 - [571] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Title said sky spawn so... Ditching the MCC? What are we jumping out or off of to deploy to the planets? Just picture it. Activating your inertia dampener from space and your free falling while loading the map, When finished loading you land in the district! Titanfall what? One of the Dust trailers shows what a sky spawn should be: essentially a landing pod that you jump out of as it goes through the atmosphere. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
logan turnbull Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 4	Posted - 2014.08.31 03:02:00 - [572] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman hey Ccp maybe you should open up the salvage vault a little bit don't go Monty hall but give it out a little bit more often for us dust bunnies war always profit in war
lateris ablon Commando Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:27:00 - [573] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Soulja Ghostface wrote: Title said sky spawn so... Ditching the MCC? What are we jumping out or off of to deploy to the planets? Just picture it. Activating your inertia dampener from space and your free falling while loading the map, When finished loading you land in the district! Titanfall what? One of the Dust trailers shows what a sky spawn should be: essentially a landing pod that you jump out of as it goes through the atmosphere. Please!!!! I would love this!!!! ATC
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 954	Posted - 2014.09.02 03:37:00 - [574] - Quote give economic vehicles. large trucks for salvaging wrecks and old battlezones and breaking it down into ore, portable drills, and your teamates can have vehicles to defend you. just like how a salvager, miner or industrial works in eve. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1337	Posted - 2014.09.06 11:16:00 - [575] - Quote How about a few more pictures? :) Super Cow Powers.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 365	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:14:00 - [576] - Quote It 's been some time, could someone from CCP drop us some information about progress of Legion, and I'm not telling certain about salvage-sites, but anything like new outpost pics Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Sawdeth 501st foxhound NEMESIS INC UNITED 49	Posted - 2014.10.26 11:31:00 - [577] - Quote @CCP Wolfman What I would like to see in salvaging items is when after a battle has concluded, you've mentioned Rogue Drones quite a bit. So my question here is in regard to Rogue Drones is say "IF" you were to unleash a Railgun Fitted Gunnlogi onto say about 350 meters from what appears to be a Drone Hive and started firing one shot to it, how will these Rogue Drones react? P.S. I would like to give you guys at CCP a video on what I would love to see in dealing with a BUG Hunt and I hope that everyone would agree with me here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zBbCC3h9R4 Imagine that Rock being thrown into a Hornet's nest is the Drone Hive after it takes about 1/8th of it's shields from a Rail gun tank. This is how I would like to see these Rogue Drones react. I will saw the tables of solitude. They say that death is no longer an option. CEO of 501st Foxhound Any Objections???
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 398	Posted - 2014.10.26 18:51:00 - [578] - Quote Sawdeth wrote: @CCP Wolfman Imagine that Rock being thrown into a Hornet's nest is the Drone Hive after it takes about 1/8th of it's shields from a Rail gun tank. This is how I would like to see these Rogue Drones react. Bees are limited compare to drones. On movie they flew from the hive and started to 'looking' for threat on they own way, I do not not know exactly how it's work but it have to be something with colors and moves. So bees can not look at the hole in hive, calculate trajectory, force and proceed to attack instantly. I think drones should always react to threat which 'tactical taste' counter attack: 1. Weaker drones should hide from victim line of sight to prevent unnecessary losses. 2. Heavier drones should work as 'bait' and remain on victim line of sight while they are remotely repaired by hidden behind rocks logistics drones. 3. Heavier drones should buy enough time for Assault drones to flank victim and attack it at the same time. 4. There should be some Scouts as well, focused on different task like a) scanning battlefield around player to be sure that he is not just distraction, b) and there should be Scouts with more direct roles like scanning victim fit in order to adjust weapons in best way, so if he use armor tanking, drones should use anti-armor base weapons so the 'assault' focused on maximize drones efficiency. And it would be incredible amazing if the drones would move in very aggressive style so everyone that seen it can clearly tell that they are predators here(not w, but they). What we saw in that trailer long time ago ..it was weak, those drones were moving as lazy herd of pandas, which had just filled their stomachs. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2277	Posted - 2014.10.30 19:56:00 - [579] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components: The ability to search for and find loot Armed drones that search and gather loot Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGÇª What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman Should be a way for non-EVE players to be able to loot and salvage stuff without a drone or two being destroyed in the blink of an eye. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2014.11.06 20:47:00 - [580] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I'm not suggesting all areas would be like that. Not being sure who to trust would be part of the fun but I do think you need some safe places to learn the ropes. lol some people will never leave! this thread just got 20% cooler

Eris Ernaga Successful Players Every Time 941	Posted - 2014.11.16 14:01:00 - [581] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass! Please continue to keep us up to date. *Closed Beta Vet* Gone until the game gets better Estimated Wait Time: *ErrorWaitTimeToLong*


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