Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it...

If I understand you correctly it would be possible. If, for example, there was an eradication mission where you had to destroy 100 drones you could be doing that alongside other players who are there to Salvage. They probably wouldn't like you much since you'll be getting the drones all riled up :-)

Careful, Wolfman. Not everyone has trained Sarcasm to Level 5

Regis, I hope you're happy with my use of emotes. Took me a while to get my head around that.

We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about.

We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool.

You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm.

@ Severus Smith

I think you misunderstand, weGÇÖre not thinking of it as a handheld piece of equipment but as a deployable one. Once deployed it would start to harvest the loot (storing it using a quantum hammer space engine). After that you probably want to keep an eye on it in case another player (or a drone comes and takes it away). It is possible to pick it up and carry it whilst using your weapon so it doesnGÇÖt get in the way of shooting. What it does do is provide you with a pretty strong motivation not to die and lose everything you just salvaged from that high quality site you just found on your way to bank it.

IGÇÖm not really a fan of getting salvage and instantly banking it. I think there is a lot of gameplay to be had in the space between gaining possession of salvage and actually getting permanent ownership of it. I believe this to be key.

One of the reasons weGÇÖre looking at smaller harvesters rather than giant robot harvesters is because it allows you to salvage in more interesting and varied locations i.e. a giant robot canGÇÖt get inside an interior space. I think it would be a shame not to be able to salvage in outpost interiors for example. Not to say giant robots arenGÇÖt cool, perhaps we could introduce deployable mining robots for a total different type of gameplay over time.

Also you donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to. You could roam around killing others and taking their salvage. You could be fighting domination battles, earning ISK and purchasing gear from people who have been salvaging. ThereGÇÖs more than one way to play.

Ah, so that's how they work. I see now. Well, As I've stated already, I don't really like the concept of legion being a lobby shooter, as it causes a lot of things to be limited (logistics of gear is basically eliminated). If you want to give structure to some playing, I say make arenas for them to play in.

But say that you completely ignore all of the above and make it a pure lobby shooter (again), at least allow us to while the battle is going salvage the stuff, or after the match is done you get X amount of time to salvage stuff (or both).

At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear.

There-¦s a very interesting game that i like the system of alerts.

FF?

Thanks for all the great ideas guys.

IGÇÖve been giving this a little thought and I think IGÇÖm leaning towards a reactive system rather than a proactive one. If the safety level is player determined (proactive) I know for sure that a blue tag isnGÇÖt intending to shoot me. If it is reactive then I just know he might not shoot me and hasnGÇÖt shot anyone recently. I rather like the sense of slight uncertainty with the latter method.

Whether or not thatGÇÖs appropriate for high sec is a different question though...

I think it's very relevant to Salvage though, handling this badly (or not at all) could lead to a lot of frustration.

What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own?

Ok

I want to go back to a topic weGÇÖve already chatted about a bit and share our current thinking on what weGÇÖre calling GÇÿsuspicion ratingGÇÖ in Salvage.

A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥.

There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags:

• Neutral GÇô white
• Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black)
• Suspect GÇô yellow
• Threat GÇô red

All players start in the neutral state.

If a player deals x damage to the same target within y seconds his/her rating becomes suspect.

If a player kills another player his/her rating immediately becomes threat.

A player in the neutral marked state has killed another player in the current session but has since returned to neutral. Neutral marked is functionally equivalent to neutral, but serves to indicate that the player has a history of violence.

A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating is not reset at death.

If a player has not damaged or killed another player for x seconds his/her state will degrade to the next lowest state (i.e. a player at GÇ£threatGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ and a player in GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£neutralGÇ¥). There should be two separate timers for threat-->suspect (default: 180 seconds) and suspect-->neutral marked (default: 90 seconds).

We wanted to begin with a very simple system that could then be iterated on through play. We will be trying out a first version of this soon which only has neutral and threat.

I would love to hear your thoughts

Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats.

It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items.

By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel.

Could, but probably won't xD

Lot of people expected that Eve Online's new bounty system -could- allow for that same behavior but it's either not happening or simply isn't heard of. Kinda hard to set that sort of thing up in the middle of the battle and there's nothing stopping the potential victim of a 'protection racket' from just going back to high-sec. Kind of difficult to get that sort of behavior down so that it's not just allowed, but encouraged.

About the squad thing. At the same time, I can already think of a way that I, personally, would circumvent the entire system; by just not squading up with my corp mates for the same effect. A little bit of communication and I can jump into the match as a squad, disband it, and then just run with a burner voice channel. Give two guys the role of 'enforcer' and the rest just focus on the harvesting - all of a sudden the guilt by association part of the squad-play is completely nyxxed as there is no squad to associate the guilt to.

That being said, if it's something you're married to, I say go ahead and work with it... but if it's easily circumvented then there's probably not much sense in investing resources into it.

Lots of very good stuff

the thing that I don't quite like about varying FF damage is that it makes the weapons feel very weak.

I don't really understand what you're conveying here, could you possibly re-word it?

Maybe what we could do is make like a low sec mining operation.

The drones that come out and "loot" will be the npcs of the faction in that system "blood raiders guristas. etc..

These drones will attack you making the salvaging into a pve session while looking for look.

You should be able to choose the security system to go into and depending which you schoose depends on the suits and the gear that these npcs have (just like in EVE)

Lower security means the harder it will be to kill the more the more difficul

I definitley want to see proto suits with proto gear and a decent difficulty in their tactics in 0.1 and into null sec

Salvage rates and the rarity should be determined in the security its found also

Proto and salvage only gear should be found in low sec with higher drops rates the lower the security.

One final point, then I'll concede. How is the IFF "proactive" rather than "reactive" and if so, why is this bad for progression..?

In scenario A (without an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly Squad Member X lobs a grenade and ARs you in the head. Due to the low TTK and the utter surprise you die pretty much instantly without any chance to retaliate. Maybe the other 4 squad members take him down, but with a well placed grenade and an AR by the time they realize what has happened to you they're also probably dead. This isn't fun.

In scenario B (with an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly the message "Squad Member X has removed his IFF module" pops up on the screen and you spin around just in time to see him throw a grenade. Maybe you still die (like above) but at least you had a chance rather than just being gunned down in the back with no contest. This is more fun.

You need steps. Not a cliff.

Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you.

Ow rly?

Imagine 6-men squad with Mass Drivers killing everything around but not each other. It is something like camp-gate disco in low-sec(10~ Battleships fitted for high resistance on smartbomb's they use - they are making minimal damage each other in proximity of smartbombs but everything without those resistance evaporate). Is it make sense for you now?

The CRU's in salvage are going to be going away soon (at least as a test). I'll talk more about that soon to get your opinion

There is no invisible protection in high sec, that will save your ship from suicide-gank(thats trigger a few nice story in my head). You can die everywhere except those places/situations that I mentioned.
I think that one of the factors[ that convince players to move on to more "dangerous places" is when they realise it, and starting to calculate what they can gain in the same amount of time that they spend on game now(in Empire). And of course everywhere else they can get more than in Empire.

You could still do it, but it is harder. Turn FF off for weapon damage and make explosives "smart" so that they do not explode if a squad mate is within the explosion radius. We have smart munitions like that in RL now.

If nothing else thanks for seeing my point. I too want carnage and the ability to shoot anyone. BUT if you put it in without some safety for squads (your idea is much simpler than mine) no one will run them because people will always betray at the end. You want squads to be fun, not paranoia inducing.

If I may ask for clarification on this.
By session based you are talking about the suspicion ratings and how long they last correct?

If so I think some form of permanent system would need to be required or else you can maximize your carnage, end the session then repeat the process with a clean slate. Some form of persistance would really seem nessecary.

One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning.

Wolfman, you should know that balancing by isk is just not going to work in New Eden.

Going to change the topic again in a sec...

It's not purely balanced by ISK. That's just a factor. Repeated drops to the same location will increase in cost each time. Right now the unused clones are not refunded.

Don't forget we're just at a prototype stage here guys, starting with simple systems and developing them through play.

Ok, next topic!

This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ.

Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped:

• No default spawns.


• When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map.


• Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map.


• Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad.

Thoughts?

a) Lore explanation? How are we spawning in the sky?

I say make the sky spawn beacon a new racial equipment to rival the 'covert' drop uplink we currently use. Probably Minmatar.

Then make 'passive' versions of both (ie they're always on the person using them) for the last two races.

What CCP Wolfman think:
link
What everyone else think:
link

Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up.

Drifting?

Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky.

Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent.

Lore?

Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock

Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns.

You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind.

Completely random?

ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop.

Calling in a small building, base of operations?

By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step.

Squads

Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome.

I really dislike this "localized wormhole" lore excuse. It doesn't jive well with EVE lore as a whole, and speaks of some manner of laziness to a better effect, like actually being dropped from... dropships.

only thing i want to know is

how you plan on players "banking" loot
my guess is a hub in fixed locations. which brings me to point two. what are your plans to prevent camping of said places. since some or all of dust weapons are going to transfer over. whats stopping someone from forge snipe camp to steal everyone in that match loot with a one shot kill weapon.(also thinking REs). because this will be more profitable then going out and risk fighting players and drones randomly.

the threat table just isn't to cut it and you time on it seems low, very low. i was thinking in terms of days(online active not RL) to down grade not seconds.if it takes less then 8 hours to downgrade from top to bottom i can see the threat system being abused to "bank" camping without drone interference.

look in different direction: mouse

drift towards/away from where you're looking: W/S

strafe-drift left or right: A/S

Maybe even allow the mouse movement to rotate the drift so you can hit the ground facing the right direction.