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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 66 post(s) |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2896
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi guys,
IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too!
This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine.
So, you have 3 main components:
- The ability to search for and find loot
- Armed drones that search and gather loot
- Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGǪ
What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave?
Have at it!
CCP Wolfman |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2898
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Posted - 2014.05.29 03:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sec levels is something we see as important as well. The lower the sec the higher the risk (drones, well geared players) and potential reward (sweet sweet loot).
We see it as a free for all but you can squad if you want. Lower security would of course have friendly fire on so if your buddy got something really rather niceGǪwell, I hope you're good friends.
WeGÇÖre thinking that the drones will deplete the salvage in a Salvage field themselves so there would be an element of pressure there.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2900
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Posted - 2014.05.29 03:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, we could have a no team 'free for all' but still not allow the players to damage/fire on each other if we wanted. So no 'neutral fire' I guess :-) |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2900
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Posted - 2014.05.29 03:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm not suggesting all areas would be like that. Not being sure who to trust would be part of the fun but I do think you need some safe places to learn the ropes. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2905
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Posted - 2014.05.29 05:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scarcity of personal resources available to any player deploying is something that weGÇÖre interested in exploring i.e. limited gear, limited clones so that death counts.
Garth brought up the idea of loot extraction. This is also a concept we like. You donGÇÖt just get loot, you need to GÇÿbank GÇÿ it in some way once itGÇÖs in your possession. This opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for emergent play :-)
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2910
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Posted - 2014.05.29 06:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it... |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2913
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Posted - 2014.05.29 06:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:It would be nice to be able to communicate with other players we meet. Hand signals kinda don't cut it.
Are there plans in place for proximity voice chat, even if it's optional? (Note that mandatory proximity chat will just force serious groups onto their own teamspeak channels, which may not be desirable)
We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-)
At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2913
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Posted - 2014.05.29 06:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Allowing players to steal from each other during a salvage session is something that we plan to allow. Of course people are so nice I doubt anyone would do it... You say "salvage session", which leads me to believe there will be a gaming instance opening up purely for looting which players can find by scanning (and deploy to). Are there any considerations to have the "shared" instances I talked about in my earlier post? Squad #1 scans for loot and finds a district / planet and deploys to get it. Squad #2 accepts a mission from a agent with set objectives and deploys. And they happen to deploy in the same district. They could go about their separate business, but they can also interact if they choose to?
If I understand you correctly it would be possible. If, for example, there was an eradication mission where you had to destroy 100 drones you could be doing that alongside other players who are there to Salvage. They probably wouldn't like you much since you'll be getting the drones all riled up :-) |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2914
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Posted - 2014.05.29 06:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:We were thinking of a complex mime minigame :-)
At the most basic level there will be a much more accessible chat function Will there be holographic chat bubbles over our heads? Because I could get into that.
No they will be comic book style bubbles since the new direction is going to be super deformed and cell shaded |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2951
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Right, now I've had my first coffee I can respond to some questions I saw popping up 
Where does salvage come from?
- The idea is that salvage is the result from the aftermath of the many battles fought on planets. This doesnGÇÖt preclude other themes being added in the future though.
- Maken Tosch asked if the locations could be tied to real battles. This is an idea we really like, might not make it in to the first iteration though.
Are there Salvage modules?
- Our plan is to introuduce modules that can have an impact on salvaging.
What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage?
- Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting.
- Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all.
Lots of cool ideas about drones. Some quick notes on our thinkingGǪ
- Drones arenGÇÖt immediately aggressive, their reaction to you will be based on your actions and behaviour. It will however be tricky not to come in to conflcit with them at some point since theyGÇÖre not so keen on players scanning and looting.
- The composition and type of drones in a salvage field can change over the course of a session (a session being until the loot in the field runs dry). The drone hive mind will control this, if a lot of aggression is being directed at the drones you should expect to see tougher drones being deployed. You push, the hive mind pushes back!
On player freedomGǪ
- Sole Fenychs said GÇ£I want total freedom in behaviourGÇ¥. I suppose it depends exactly how you define GÇÿtotal freedomGÇÖ. We will probably place some restrictions and/or controls in high security areas though to protect new players and give them a smoother introduction. We want you to be able to determine the risk/reward level you play at.
- Outside of that we donGÇÖt plan on stopping the players doing anything. You donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to, you can take whatever you brought with you and do what you want.
On manufacturingGǪ
- Cool, but not the purpose of this thread
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2951
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Regis, I hope you're happy with my use of emotes. Took me a while to get my head around that. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2953
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ku Shala wrote:Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp?  JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2 
Map size is something we'll be determining through playtesting. We have to find the right balance between player count, drone count, enjoyable exploration and the chance of encounters. Our current test map is larger than a skirmish map, it's still early days.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2954
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Posted - 2014.05.30 05:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones?
Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point?
Yes to redeploy (at a cost and if there is still space) and yes to individual player |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2956
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Posted - 2014.05.30 07:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
DAMIOS82 wrote:That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot.
We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about.
We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2969
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Posted - 2014.06.03 09:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Just so you know, I'm still alive and reading. Just been a bit busy. Will catch up on this thread soon. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2988
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Posted - 2014.06.09 02:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ok, a few more quick responses to questions IGÇÖve seen popping up.
Is all salvage items?
I saw someone mentioned the desire to GÇ£loot garbageGÇ¥ and some of the salvage is indeed GÇÿjunkGÇÖ. These are items or parts of items too damaged to be used but still of some value. The quality of junk varies and can be sold for ISK.
Drone aggression
Drones arenGÇÖt planned to be immediately aggressive. Their reaction to you will depend on your actions. For example, if you are doing a lot of scanning for salvage they will become more GÇÿinterestedGÇÖ in you and will attack. If you kill drones they will become very interested in you We intend to have a cooldown on this so it is possible to get back in their good books.
EVE players and drones
IGÇÖve seen a few comments asking whether or not EVE players will be allowed to deploy drones to salvage themselves. This is a pretty cool idea although it seems like a shame to not create a player to player relationship between EVE pilots and mercs on the ground. Still interesting possibilities there for the future.
Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it?
Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you.
Manufacturing
LotGÇÖs of questions about this. I wouldnGÇÖt rule it out for future development but at the moment we are focusing on getting the core gameplay up and running. One of the nice things about the more free form nature of Salvage gameplay is that it provides a good foundation to build on and develop different experiences and connections between players.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2989
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Posted - 2014.06.09 07:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with.
Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave.
Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec?
Let me know what you think.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2989
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Posted - 2014.06.09 07:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
A drone trolling module, that is a cool idea. I'm not sure about damage reductions either, it is possible to do now but it makes weapons feel weak and can make firefights a bit long and comical :-)
If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking... |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2992
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Posted - 2014.06.09 09:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:A drone trolling module, that is a cool idea. I'm not sure about damage reductions either, it is possible to do now but it makes weapons feel weak and can make firefights a bit long and comical :-)
If we don't do anything then my worry is that when people leave high sec they may well fall off a cliff in to a world of ganking... To expand on what the last guy said, those types of games are very very niche and personally I don't find them fun at all, but there's a lot to learn from them. Day Z, Rust, Infestation, they all have the same sort of general feel where it becomes more Kill On Sight and less working together because there's generally no reason to when you want all the loot to yourself. But there's an inherent problem... Throwing up some defenses around CRUs would be a decent enough solution, but it'd probably just borrow from the same problem every survival game has in that it just makes these exclusive little zones that players -KNOW- there will be activity at, creating sort of camping grounds. What -I- would do is get some friends together, send three-five people to go gather loot and another three-five people to just camp the CRU-area to prevent anyone from leaving. That being said - and before I go on, I just want to say I've never played the game, was just told about it - Nether apparently has this concept where the more player-killing you do, the more attention you attract from the Nethers (funny as that sounds, lol!!!) which I think would be a decent enough fail-safe. The more player-killing you do, the more attention you get from the Drones as a threat. Something I was mentioning earlier but, your call. Just spit-balling here.
It would be possible for us to make player kills a factor in the drones interest in you. Not sure why they would care but they could... |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2992
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Posted - 2014.06.09 09:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I would like a piece of equipment that allows me to temporarily hack a hostile drone and make it kill other drones for me. It could be a valuable distraction or defense. The duration of the drone control should vary based on tier.
it's technically possible since we can already have drones that are "on your team". However we'll have to accurately determine how many total drones and players we can handle at any one time before looking at features like this. It would be pretty sweet though, I've always wanted a pet drone |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3016
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with.
Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave.
Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec?
Let me know what you think.
Implement an IFF Fire Control module. Basically a module that is equipped in all suits that prevents you from firing on friendly, or neutral, enemies. - This module is required in all High Security systems. Thus no friendly fire. - This module can be removed in Low Security systems. So if you want to go gank / pirate / be an a**hat you have to somehow remove the IFF module (Supply Depot, or redeploy, or something). Without the IFF you show up as an enemy to all around you but are also capable of firing on anyone. - This module is useless in Null Security systems. Friendly fire is always on and you can shoot at anyone. What this does is help preserve trust and decrease ganking. Because people will get PISSED if they just suddenly get lit up by their "teammates" and soon salvaging will only be a single person activity because no one can trust anyone.
This is quite interesting. Will give it some thought. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3016
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Posted - 2014.06.10 08:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
lateris ablon wrote:Quote:Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it?
Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you.
Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic?
You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3020
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Posted - 2014.06.11 02:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
@ Severus Smith
I think you misunderstand, weGÇÖre not thinking of it as a handheld piece of equipment but as a deployable one. Once deployed it would start to harvest the loot (storing it using a quantum hammer space engine). After that you probably want to keep an eye on it in case another player (or a drone comes and takes it away). It is possible to pick it up and carry it whilst using your weapon so it doesnGÇÖt get in the way of shooting. What it does do is provide you with a pretty strong motivation not to die and lose everything you just salvaged from that high quality site you just found on your way to bank it.
IGÇÖm not really a fan of getting salvage and instantly banking it. I think there is a lot of gameplay to be had in the space between gaining possession of salvage and actually getting permanent ownership of it. I believe this to be key.
One of the reasons weGÇÖre looking at smaller harvesters rather than giant robot harvesters is because it allows you to salvage in more interesting and varied locations i.e. a giant robot canGÇÖt get inside an interior space. I think it would be a shame not to be able to salvage in outpost interiors for example. Not to say giant robots arenGÇÖt cool, perhaps we could introduce deployable mining robots for a total different type of gameplay over time.
Also you donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to. You could roam around killing others and taking their salvage. You could be fighting domination battles, earning ISK and purchasing gear from people who have been salvaging. ThereGÇÖs more than one way to play.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3020
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Posted - 2014.06.11 02:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:So a salvage drone with guns on it? A tad more involved but yeah. Not yet sure if guns should be a general thing or part of a role defining trait.  I want the salvage thing to be something unique to all other FPS. We have seen enough "press and hold E to receive loot" and "guard/capture this illogically defenceless tactical asset" imho. Having these drones would add another layer of tactics to combat in that even a solo player is not necessarily "alone". I'd like them to be something you learn to use efficiently in assisting you with tasks that might otherwise turn stale after a while and become sort of an extended arm of yourself so you focus on your surroundings rather than the tedium of the looting process itself. Maybe even as central a part of your fit and target of emotional attachment as your suit itself. As a side note, I image these three types being per race so that there's a variety of different harvesters for different situations/ play styles. I also consider splitting the current "guardian" into two clearly offensive and defensive types as it's awfully close to being "general purpose".
I like the risk/reward of it helping you in combat. Something that we have to take in to account though is max player/drone count. At this stage we're not sure how many of either we can support at once. Every drone a player has is one less drone the Hive Mind has to deploy. Depending on how the max count ends up that could hurt. Still a cool idea though |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3027
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Posted - 2014.06.11 08:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:@Wolfman: Let me get this straight before I make my decision on this thing. Tell me if I got the gist of how you want this thing to sort of work-
step 1: kill stuffz
step 2: put your neat little harvester down
step 3: guard it while it harvests stuffz in the vicinity
step 4: pick it up and run
If so, neat. Make it bigger and apply it to mining, and have vehicle versions that does it even better.
It's a pretty good description but there are a couple of things missing. You can try to avoid killing stuffz and you also have to find the salvage location before you can harvest using your scanner. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3029
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Posted - 2014.06.11 08:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Salvage fields are set in the aftermath of battle and the salvage is scattered across the map and must be located and harvested. You don't gain it from directly killing drones currently. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3038
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Posted - 2014.06.12 02:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
@ Severus Smith
At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester.
Player controlled drones as a concept are really cool. I like the idea of putting a drone in the drone equivalent of a bleed out state and then hacking it to my GÇ£teamGÇ¥. But, before we think about that we need to get the base gameplay fun, see what kind of player/drone counts that takes and what the performance impact is. We then also have to factor in player count Vs server costs. There are all sorts of different factors in the balance.
Would like to do something with them if possible. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3038
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Posted - 2014.06.12 02:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:@ Severus Smith
At the moment the harvester doesnGÇÖt take up a slot. We didnGÇÖt want to place an extra step (fitting) between the player and salvaging. The current idea is that you will be able to fit modules to your dropsuit that will augment the harvester.
Player controlled drones as a concept are really cool. I like the idea of putting a drone in the drone equivalent of a bleed out state and then hacking it to my GÇ£teamGÇ¥. But, before we think about that we need to get the base gameplay fun, see what kind of player/drone counts that takes and what the performance impact is. We then also have to factor in player count Vs server costs. There are all sorts of different factors in the balance.
Would like to do something with them if possible. I got a question for you. Assuming Legion gets the green light from Hilmar, are we going test the salvage system in the Singularity Test Server?
We'll certainly be testing it, I'll leave the decision as to where up to the tech gods |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3044
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Posted - 2014.06.12 06:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lilith Serenity wrote:Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts.
I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself.
NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back.
At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3060
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Posted - 2014.06.13 01:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
I think it's very relevant to Salvage though, handling this badly (or not at all) could lead to a lot of frustration. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3065
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Posted - 2014.06.15 06:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Thanks for all the great ideas guys.
IGÇÖve been giving this a little thought and I think IGÇÖm leaning towards a reactive system rather than a proactive one. If the safety level is player determined (proactive) I know for sure that a blue tag isnGÇÖt intending to shoot me. If it is reactive then I just know he might not shoot me and hasnGÇÖt shot anyone recently. I rather like the sense of slight uncertainty with the latter method.
Whether or not thatGÇÖs appropriate for high sec is a different question though...
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3082
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Posted - 2014.06.25 08:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Thought you might like to check out some early pics of the Harvester.
Here you see it closed:
Here it's open and you can probably see why it's been nicknamed scorpion
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3082
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Posted - 2014.06.25 08:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Don't have anything to hand right now. It's about the size of a very large back pack. We have noticed the the FOV makes it look a little smaller than we expected. We'll need to get a functional test in game first to test it out (right now it's represented by a rotating box!). |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3083
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Posted - 2014.06.25 08:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
its actually a fair bit bigger than that :-) |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3085
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Posted - 2014.06.25 08:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Ooohhhh i like, does this thing follow us around or does it clip onto a suits backpack, as i could frustrateing counters of trolls just blowing them up at the perimeter of a salavage site.
It's deployed like a fat nanohive. Only difference is there is a put down and pick up anim. Right now they can be destroyed but it is very very hard. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3085
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Posted - 2014.06.25 09:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P
Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3086
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Posted - 2014.06.25 09:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:That is awsome and a good move :-), hard to kill is a plus to prevent sniping :-) i could even see some awsome firefights over them if u can hack them once the owner is dead....hint hint :-P Yeah at first they were easier to destroy but it proved to be a lot more annoying than fun. Right now you can pick up other peoples and steal them. No hacking yet, we're still deciding if we want to add that step, leaning towards it. So the plan is for them to be mostly passive at any rate? What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own?
Yes, although we've talked about the possibility of adding some built in defense to them.
You can only carry one so if you want to steal you have to abandon yours. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3093
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Posted - 2014.06.25 09:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:
What happens when I pick one up while already carrying my own?
I guess you can't? Especially if it is the size of a very large backpack. There could be two mechanics perhaps? 1) With intention to steal (I.e left my own scavenger at home) -> kills dude and pick up his scavenger -> Leg it  2) Scavenging on my own (can't pick up another one without dropping my own) -> kills dude and hack his scavenger (which will give me a percentage of his loot) -> leg it 
That's just about how it's working atm apart from we have no hacking yet. Stealing loot via a hack without picking up the harvester is an interesting thought. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3095
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Posted - 2014.06.25 10:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far.
Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet. |
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CCP Blowout
C C P
C C P Alliance
957
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Posted - 2014.06.25 11:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Requesting to update the op with the new pictures and facts so far. Facts? There are no facts, I'm just making all this up and I found those pictures on the internet.
Please don't troll - these are serious forums, ty.
Part man, part Internet.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3121
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Posted - 2014.06.27 02:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
On correlation of salvage to gear lost in battle
- Step one is will be GÇÿrandomGÇÖ in that it will not be directly connected to what is dropped in a battle. However different places will yield different types of Salvage and different levels of quality. We think this is a good starting point, we want to keep things simple to start with and build on them.
On time duration of the harvester animation?
- Time duration (of concept anim) is roughly 6 seconds to place and 6 seconds to pick up again.
On leaving a harvester in a vehicle
- No, that is not currently possible. They are tough enough to survive a car crash (although there is a bug that makes them vanish if it happens right now!).
On GÇÿwandering off'
- Yes you can leave your harvester harvesting and wander off to steal someone elseGÇÖs.
On me being a troll
- Sorry Iron Wolf, could resist :-P
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3130
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Posted - 2014.07.02 03:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ok
I want to go back to a topic weGÇÖve already chatted about a bit and share our current thinking on what weGÇÖre calling GÇÿsuspicion ratingGÇÖ in Salvage.
A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥.
There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags:
- Neutral GÇô white
- Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black)
- Suspect GÇô yellow
- Threat GÇô red
All players start in the neutral state.
If a player deals x damage to the same target within y seconds his/her rating becomes suspect.
If a player kills another player his/her rating immediately becomes threat.
A player in the neutral marked state has killed another player in the current session but has since returned to neutral. Neutral marked is functionally equivalent to neutral, but serves to indicate that the player has a history of violence.
A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating is not reset at death.
If a player has not damaged or killed another player for x seconds his/her state will degrade to the next lowest state (i.e. a player at GÇ£threatGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ and a player in GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ will move to GÇ£neutralGÇ¥). There should be two separate timers for threat-->suspect (default: 180 seconds) and suspect-->neutral marked (default: 90 seconds).
We wanted to begin with a very simple system that could then be iterated on through play. We will be trying out a first version of this soon which only has neutral and threat.
I would love to hear your thoughts |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3131
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Posted - 2014.07.02 03:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Does this tie in as an over head marker or is this tied or visible in a Local chat?
It uses the players tag, so yes over head marker. We could use it in chat as well potentially. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3134
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Posted - 2014.07.02 08:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3137
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Posted - 2014.07.02 09:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Saw some questions about squads, this is how we're thinking...
- Players do not change state by damaging or killing squad members. It is up to the squad to manage itself and eject anyone causing trouble for the squad.
- All members of a squad will have a suspicion rating equivalent to the highest state of any member. That is to say, if any member is GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ or GÇ£threatGÇ¥ then all members are shown as such.
- Squad matesGÇÖ tags remain half-green and the other half is the color representing the squadGÇÖs current state.
- Upon leaving a squad, the player inherits whatever state he/she had while in the squad.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3138
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Posted - 2014.07.02 10:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:if a neutral kills a threat the neutral player stays neutral. Well that would make sense. However I'd like to add a wrinkle to that. I think it would be interesting for neutrals to be rewarded somehow for consistently taking out threats. It should be fairly obvious that should a neutral be taking out threats they are in fact acting as a protector/bounty hunter role and should be rewarded in some way for acting as a Marshall in a lawless region. The reward could be ISK based or perhaps even an increse in his/her chances of getting the rarer salvage items. By doing this we've just added a new role and increased the chances of emergent behaviour. Perhaps a corp of dedicated protectors for salvage only based players working to a contract system? There is huge scope for increased participation here I feel.
I had a little think about this and I'd be interested in putting a reward of that type in the hands of the players. For example at the end of or during a session you could gift people with stuff. Thanks Mr Policeman! That in turn could end up creating a lot more possible roles and could be done on an ad-hoc basis managed by players without the need for us to create specific game systems to support it. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3146
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Posted - 2014.07.03 01:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote: Lots of very good stuff The only problem I can see with the proposed system is the two edge cases that I tried to address in my suggestion.
- Deliberate vs accidental kill: Since the timer always starts from full there is no difference in consequence if a player reduces another players health from 100% -> 0% (deliberate) or 1% -> 0% (accidental). Both players need to wait 180s + 90s to go down to neutral. This can (and will) be abused by griefers.
- Non killing griefing: If I understand it correctly, if I don't kill anybody (only damage) I never go to "threat" level. This would mean I could deliberately (and continually) damage other players so they easily die by NPC (or other players), which can never retaliate since I am only a "suspect". Expect a lot of this as well.
With a incremental timer, these would not be an issue.
We should be testing our first version which is very binary (youGÇÖre either neutral or a threat) next week. We have some really rather dedicated griefers on the team so weGÇÖll give them a mandate to f***k with people as much as humanly possible once itGÇÖs in. Then we can iterate based on experience as well as theory. IGÇÖm not dismissing this as an issue, it is a very valid concern and something we will be paying attention to. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3146
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Posted - 2014.07.03 01:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:A playerGÇÖs suspicion rating helps other players identify him as a possible threat, particularly PKGÇÖers. It is a reactive system used to rate and grade player behavior rather than a proactive system. This is to allow for an exciting degree of uncertainty over the motives of other players who are still GÇ£neutralGÇ¥. There are four suspicion states that define the color of a playerGÇÖs tags:
- Neutral GÇô white
- Neutral Marked GÇô white/black (half white and half black)
- Suspect GÇô yellow
- Threat GÇô red
CCP Wolfman wrote:What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage?
Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting.
Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all. I'm trying to connect both things. So since there's no teams, just squads, players will see my red chevron only if I will appear on they LOS, or they will scan me down with scanner? Is it right?
That is correct. They work just like regular tags for a member of the enemy team now.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3146
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Posted - 2014.07.03 01:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Saw some questions about squads, this is how we're thinking...
- Players do not change state by damaging or killing squad members. It is up to the squad to manage itself and eject anyone causing trouble for the squad.
- All members of a squad will have a suspicion rating equivalent to the highest state of any member. That is to say, if any member is GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ or GÇ£threatGÇ¥ then all members are shown as such.
- Squad matesGÇÖ tags remain half-green and the other half is the color representing the squadGÇÖs current state.
- Upon leaving a squad, the player inherits whatever state he/she had while in the squad.
Problem with this. If friendly fire is always on and a squads only defense is policing itself then you're setting yourself up for a HUGE problem. This limits squads to groups of friends / corporations only and completely leaves out new players / less connected players. EVE is a perfect example. How many people mission in "pug" groups? None. it is basically unheard of because once your in a fleet with a stranger they can shoot you with little to no consequence. The only activity resembling a "pug" PVE thing is Incursions; which require ships costing billions of ISK, characters with years of SP, and are policed by OCD fleet commanders with global blacklists. DUST / Legion needs a way for random players to join together without the paranoia that at any moment Squad Member X is going to kill everyone and run with the loot. This will help form a community, get players into corporations, and increase retention. I brought up this in an earlier post as a possible solution. It ensures that there is a small level of trust. That if Squad Member X decides to betray the squad he has to remove his IFF module first, thus showing as hostile and giving the squad some warning. On topic: The threat levels are good. The only suggestion I would have is lengthening the "threat" timer when shown to victims. If Merc X kills me, I want to know he's a threat for far longer than 3 minutes. Maybe make the "enemy" flag where they show up red last for 30 minutes. That way if I get killed I can track that person down.
Don't forget, currently our intention is still that high sec is FF off. So for the new players learning the ropes they don't have to worry about being ganked by squad mates and can meet other players to group up with before they venture in to the wild.
Personally whilst I don't think the IFF module is a bad idea, I prefer a reactive system over a proactive one in this case because of the uncertainty it creates. I think it's a shame to lose that aspect of play by telegraphing peoples intentions.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3150
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Posted - 2014.07.03 07:58:00 -
[50] - Quote
the thing that I don't quite like about varying FF damage is that it makes the weapons feel very weak. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3156
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Posted - 2014.07.04 01:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3156
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Posted - 2014.07.04 02:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Well then there better be sentry drones around CRUs otherwise they'll be camped more heavily than anywhere in DayZ.
The CRU's in salvage are going to be going away soon (at least as a test). I'll talk more about that soon to get your opinion
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3156
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Posted - 2014.07.04 02:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Quick note on consequences - Pking not only increases your suspicion rating but it is also one of the largest factors for increasing drone hostility towards you. High hostility will mean the drones are actively hunting you. Are hostile drones immediately aware of my presence and position or can cloaks & low suit profiles be used to avoid detection?
Right now they don't 'understand' profiles but they do understand cloaking so yes you can use a cloak to avoid them. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3156
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Posted - 2014.07.04 02:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Will modifiers such as standing or Milita status be visually present during these kinds of actions.
E.G- Can I down rep someone who has killed me before and see that bad standing while he is not suspect?
We're looking at a session based system not a persistent one at this stage. That doesn't mean persistent isn't a place we can go but I think session based makes sense as a starting point. It's still early days |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3172
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Posted - 2014.07.09 09:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3173
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Posted - 2014.07.09 09:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
It's not purely balanced by ISK. That's just a factor. Repeated drops to the same location will increase in cost each time. Right now the unused clones are not refunded.
Don't forget we're just at a prototype stage here guys, starting with simple systems and developing them through play. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3173
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Posted - 2014.07.09 09:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
Going to change the topic again in a sec... |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3173
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Posted - 2014.07.09 09:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:One PK is all it takes to become tagged as a 'threat' in match. If you were to leave a match and rejoin you would get only one PK before everyone who saw you knew you were a danger. Also there is a cost to deploy to a salvage site (to cover clones, jump cost etc) so ending a session and rejoining another is going to get costly if you're not earning. Wolfman, you should know that balancing by isk is just not going to work in New Eden. I agree. Like in Dust, some players will be incredibly wealthy and this "fee" is not going to bother them much. @Wolfman: What are the difficulties to make the suspicion rating persistent? I.e even if you leave the session and join the same / new, the countdown will still go on?
Sure, I know it's just one deterrent. The main thing we aim to achieve to begin with is simply being able to tell if someone in match has been PKing. No more, no less. We could develop a broader more complicated system for sure, this just seems like a good starting point that can be built on if it becomes clear there is a need.
Keep in mind we've not even tried it yet. We'll probably have version 1 up and running in the next few days. |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3173
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Posted - 2014.07.09 09:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ok, next topic!
This week we will (hopefully) be testing low orbital drops in Salvage, or as they have often been called GÇÿsky spawnsGÇÖ.
Up until now weGÇÖve been using fixed spawn points and (shock horror) some mean spirited people liked to camp them. So since we've always been fond of the idea weGÇÖve decided to try out putting the spawn locations in the hands of the players rather than dictating them ourselves so hereGÇÖs is what is being prototyped:
- No default spawns.
- When you deploy you are GÇÿdroppedGÇÖ to a random location on the map.
- Drop uplinks and LOD Beacons can be used by players to set up their own bases of operation anywhere on the map.
- Drop Uplinks and LOD beacons are only usable by the player that deployed them and his squad.
Thoughts? |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3175
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Posted - 2014.07.09 10:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Couldn't agree more Aeon! |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3189
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Posted - 2014.07.10 03:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ok, a few quick answers to questions IGÇÖve seen come up.
Drifting?
Not in our first test. Today weGÇÖll have the random picking of points on the map and spawning up in the sky.
Drifting will likely become an important thing to add though since it helps mitigate the random nature of the drop by allowing you to steer to some extent.
Lore?
Like drop uplinks, the LOD uses a localized wormhole created by a ship in orbit (that you clone jump to). It canGÇÖt get an accurate lock due to planetary interference which accounts for the randomness of the spawn location and it spawns above the target area to prevent you appearing inside a rock
Droplinks provide a focused locater signal which is why they allow pin point spawns.
You are not getting off the planet, your consciousness is transferred to the ship in orbit and from there you clone jump back to your station. You dump your clone behind.
Droplinks used by more than just squads?
For now itGÇÖs just squad. We are hoping to give the player the option when deploying for it to be personal/squad/team.
Completely random?
ItGÇÖs a random selection from a bunch of points weGÇÖve placed so we could put them all at the edges of the map if we wanted to control the areas more. Right now theyGÇÖre all over the shop.
Calling in a small building, base of operations?
By this I just mean you can set up a starting point for you and/or your squad allowing you specific spawn locations. Allowing more advanced GÇÿtent pitchingGÇÖ options is being considered for future development for sure. This is just a first step.
Squads
Currently there is no logic for group LODs and you will have to land and reform. There are a bunch of things to consider with it, is it just first spawn, what about spawning at different times, what if one member picks a droplink etc. Ideas welcome.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3189
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Posted - 2014.07.10 05:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
That's why we'll test them out, we're not married to both types. Droplinks do offer different benefits though such as the ability to spawn in an interior so that is something that needs to be taken in to account as well.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3214
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Posted - 2014.07.15 02:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
So if we added the ability to drift how would like to control it with MKB? |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3216
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Posted - 2014.07.15 06:07:00 -
[64] - Quote
Thanks guys, good sanity check.
Current plan is WASD, for forward, left, back, right and mouse left/right for rotation. There could be some truth in the opinion that rotation isnGÇÖt needed for a test but weGÇÖll see.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3227
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Posted - 2014.07.16 03:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ghural wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:Ghural wrote:Yes but a freelook option would allow for some pretty cool player vids. You want to do group skydiving formations don't you. Admit it. Oh and colored smoke grenades strapped to our ankles so we can make pretty rainbows as we fall.
I LOVE THIS! |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
3243
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Posted - 2014.07.31 07:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Testing has gone pretty well. WeGÇÖve added in the drift mechanics and weGÇÖve also created GÇÿorbital drop uplinksGÇÖ so you can make more targeted drops. We did in fact have a playtest yesterday and they do really mix things up. Unlike drop uplinks you donGÇÖt have to put them where you want to spawn. You can put them a way off and then drift to your intended target. This was really exciting for assaulting objectives because you could drop a strike team right on top of them. It made things feel a lot more dynamic as well as just making you feel like a badass!
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