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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 66 post(s) |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8720
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Posted - 2014.05.29 18:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market.............
Well, until Eve-side manufacturing finally gets linked up with Legion, what alternative is there besides the primary NPC market? Besides the primary NPC market wouldn't be a good source for the secondary market anyways since you won't be able to sell for any higher than what the NPC price is going for. Therefore market trading between the primary and secondary is not profitable unless you isolate the NPC market far away in isolated regions from that of the secondary markets in other (more populated) regions.
Salvage to me is a good first step at least. Although I wonder if it's possible to implement mining in Legion. At least for materials that are exclusive to planets. That way mining in Legion won't compete with mining in Eve.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2598
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Posted - 2014.05.29 19:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Hi guys, IGÇÖm here to have a chat about Salvage. That is, deploying to the surface of a planet and searching for valuable loot. YouGÇÖre not the only one with this bright idea of course, reclaimer drones (and other players) are there doing the same thing and theyGÇÖre probably not all that keen that you are too! This is a pretty important part of the Legion economy since this salvage gathered by players is what will supply the market. ItGÇÖs something weGÇÖre beginning to look at now and I would like to hear your thoughts and harvest your ideas about it. This will then allow me to pretend all the good ones were mine. So, you have 3 main components:
- The ability to search for and find loot
- Armed drones that search and gather loot
- Other players that most likely have varying reasons for being thereGǪ
What would make for interesting ways to search for good salvage? What kind of player interactions do you think would be interesting? How do you think drones should behave? Have at it! CCP Wolfman
First of all some lore would be good. Why is that salvage there to begin with? It would be nice to have hints to the why in the level design. Maybe we're looting an old weapon production facility? Maybe a transport ship was shot down in orbit and crashed on the planet and now we're looting its cargo. Or was there a battle fought on this planet before we came there? I would love to see stuff like this in the level design. Not just some "Here is your gathering point, get there before the drones do!"
Player interaction:
I would find it interesting if Eve Online players could send these drones down to gather and sell the loot themselves. That would make for some kind of interesting assymetrical PvP. The Eve players of course don't have to care about their drones. They could start them and leave them alone. But maybe give them the possibility to defend their drones with Orbitals themselves? Or send down some guard drones in addition to the loot drones. I think that would be a realy interesting concept. Maybe you could add some kind of RTS minigame for Eve players where they command the drones against Dust players. Just think about the possibilities.
Regarding Legion only interaction I would like to see the real sandbox part here. Maybe we meet other players while looting. but does that mean we have to shoot each other? No. We could squad up here and there and gather loot together before shooting each other in the back when we get to our dropship which will end the mission.
Regarding the drones I would definitely like to see different kinds. Unarmed salvage drones solely focused on salvaging. They don't have any weapon. If they salvage before we can we can get the loot by killing them. But besides that they should be harmless, maybe even trying to flee from the player. Contrary to that there should be guard drones, guarding the salvage drones. These drones have the sole objective of guarding the salvage drones. And to add to that hunter or scout drones. These drones look for the player and try to hunt him down.
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Joey-Number1
Maniacal Miners INC
No Safe Haven
104
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:02:00 -
[63] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market.............
Well, it has to be something at first, and scavenging planets for all kinds of materials or equipment is pretty big concept, there are probably endless abandoned resources on planets, whether its from battles, waste, lost things or anything really...
The second way of getting things on the market is it being manufactured, and for that the only best solution is through EVE obviously, it would just require to develop different sources of different materials, components and so on as I imagine they would be very different from components that are used in starships, outposts, modules and everything else, the scale of things is also really different. And this requires time to figure out all this and to develop, so scavenging or salvaging is pretty solid thing.
Minmatar Logistics since the beginning.
Mass Driver my first and the only fully specialized weapon.
Explorer.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3536
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Posted - 2014.05.29 21:13:00 -
[64] - Quote
Loot that a player or drone picks up should be recoverable off their body if you kill them. Or at least much of it should be. Also, when you kill another player or drone, some of their modules should survive and be salvageable.
If a larger fire fight breaks out for whatever reason, it will evolve into a fight to control the battlefield. Each side would be hoping to hold the others off long enough to loot the bodies and get away. You could end up with 3 or 4 different groups fighting over the corpses. One of those groups may be the Drones who want the loot as much as we do. Two player groups may make a battlefield alliance to drive the others off and split the loot.
Give suits a limited carrying capacity. If Scouts can find loot easier using passive scans, then Heavies (who can't even use active scanners) should be able to carry more. Also, be able to transfer items to a vehicle, when you canGÇÖt carry more.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
846
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Posted - 2014.05.29 22:27:00 -
[65] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Loot that a player or drone picks up should be recoverable off their body if you kill them. Or at least much of it should be. Also, when you kill another player or drone, some of their modules should survive and be salvageable.
This goes double for vehicles.
IMO, a wrecked tank should be ripe for salvage, just on its own.
It kinda reminds me of Supreme Commander, where you'd have a battle, then send in the construction bots to reclaim all the metal in the wrecked units to recycle into new bots.
Dust/Eve transfers
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2481
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Well, until Eve-side manufacturing finally gets linked up with Legion, what alternative is there besides the primary NPC market? Besides the primary NPC market wouldn't be a good source for the secondary market anyways since you won't be able to sell for any higher than what the NPC price is going for. Therefore market trading between the primary and secondary is not profitable unless you isolate the NPC market far away in isolated regions from that of the secondary markets in other (more populated) regions. Salvage to me is a good first step at least. Although I wonder if it's possible to implement mining in Legion. At least for materials that are exclusive to planets. That way mining in Legion won't compete with mining in Eve.
Well, saying that "until" crap doesn't help anything. Rather, it should be there day one..............
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
402
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Are these drones the rogue AI drones of Eve or salvage drones deployed by NPCs? |
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
840
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market.............
I read through the entire thread, and re-read Wolfman's opening post...
And still could not find were anybody said that Salvage is the only way to fund the market.
Given the name of this thread ( being "[DISCUSSION] - Salvage" ), talking about other market factors such as mining for raw materials and manufacturing would be out of the scope of this thread (because none of that is salvaging).
Of course, one could say their lack of communicating other possibilities of market factors aside from salvaging is indicative of salvage being the only way... but again, Legion is still very much in Pre-Alpha. Talking too soon about features still in the idea stage could be unwise.
Then again, I suppose that it is also possible that I completely missed some post somewhere stating something pertinent to this.
I am a minotaur.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8721
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:I'm baffled that you guys think that it's a good idea to have salvaging being the only way to fund the market............. Well, until Eve-side manufacturing finally gets linked up with Legion, what alternative is there besides the primary NPC market? Besides the primary NPC market wouldn't be a good source for the secondary market anyways since you won't be able to sell for any higher than what the NPC price is going for. Therefore market trading between the primary and secondary is not profitable unless you isolate the NPC market far away in isolated regions from that of the secondary markets in other (more populated) regions. Salvage to me is a good first step at least. Although I wonder if it's possible to implement mining in Legion. At least for materials that are exclusive to planets. That way mining in Legion won't compete with mining in Eve. Well, saying that "until" crap doesn't help anything. Rather, it should be there day one..............
It should, but knowing how complicated it will be to implement Eve-side manufacturing of Legion gear, can you tell me with a straight face that it's possible to implement on the first day assuming the game is scheduled to be in beta in 12 months?
Here is a list of things to consider when it comes to manufacturing in general. This is based off of what I have seen in Eve Online. If you were to make industry the first thing available in Legion, ask yourself these questions.
- How are the blueprint copies obtained?
- How many unique materials are called for in the blueprint copy to manufacture 1 unit of a specific item?
- How many units for every unique material listed on the specific blueprint copy are called for?
- How many units are produced after every production run?
- How many production runs can this specific blueprint copy have before it expires?
- If a planet is a Temperate type, what materials can be extracted from it? What about Barren types or lava types, etc.?
- How are the materials distributed across each planet type?
- What tools are needed for scanning down the raw materials and how accurate are they?
- What tools are needed for extracting the raw materials and what are their yields?
- Does sec status impact the type of materials you will find on the specific planet?
- How will you be able to transfer the raw materials to Eve-side for manufacturing?
- What are the fees to be imposed when using NPC-provided production slots?
- How long should a specific blueprint take (in number of hours) to manufacture the item in question?
- What skills are needed to be able to use specific blueprint copies?
- What are the material efficiency and time efficiency of each blueprint copy?
Remember this is assuming we are going to let Eve players handle production as that is the fasted thing to implement for Legion. The production chains have been established by the players for 11 years along with solid logistical systems and efficient ways of researching blueprints for maximum material and time efficiency. Therefore it makes sense to go this route. If Legion were to try to establish their own production methods on day 1, it will likely take far too long.
EDIT: Sorry for straying off topic here as I know this is mainly about salvage and not production.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2951
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
Right, now I've had my first coffee I can respond to some questions I saw popping up 
Where does salvage come from?
- The idea is that salvage is the result from the aftermath of the many battles fought on planets. This doesnGÇÖt preclude other themes being added in the future though.
- Maken Tosch asked if the locations could be tied to real battles. This is an idea we really like, might not make it in to the first iteration though.
Are there Salvage modules?
- Our plan is to introuduce modules that can have an impact on salvaging.
What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage?
- Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting.
- Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all.
Lots of cool ideas about drones. Some quick notes on our thinkingGǪ
- Drones arenGÇÖt immediately aggressive, their reaction to you will be based on your actions and behaviour. It will however be tricky not to come in to conflcit with them at some point since theyGÇÖre not so keen on players scanning and looting.
- The composition and type of drones in a salvage field can change over the course of a session (a session being until the loot in the field runs dry). The drone hive mind will control this, if a lot of aggression is being directed at the drones you should expect to see tougher drones being deployed. You push, the hive mind pushes back!
On player freedomGǪ
- Sole Fenychs said GÇ£I want total freedom in behaviourGÇ¥. I suppose it depends exactly how you define GÇÿtotal freedomGÇÖ. We will probably place some restrictions and/or controls in high security areas though to protect new players and give them a smoother introduction. We want you to be able to determine the risk/reward level you play at.
- Outside of that we donGÇÖt plan on stopping the players doing anything. You donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to, you can take whatever you brought with you and do what you want.
On manufacturingGǪ
- Cool, but not the purpose of this thread
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2951
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Posted - 2014.05.30 01:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
Regis, I hope you're happy with my use of emotes. Took me a while to get my head around that. |
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Ku Shala
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
936
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp? 
JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä
Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R
Caldari Loyalist
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8721
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Posted - 2014.05.30 02:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote: Maken Tosch asked if the locations could be tied to real battles. This is an idea we really like, might not make it in to the first iteration though.
As long as it's being considered, I'm ok with waiting. I just think it will be much more immersive to have us come to an outpost that is completely in shambles after a recent match as we approach to loot from whatever is left behind in it.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2953
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ku Shala wrote:Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp? JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2
Map size is something we'll be determining through playtesting. We have to find the right balance between player count, drone count, enjoyable exploration and the chance of encounters. Our current test map is larger than a skirmish map, it's still early days.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8722
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Ku Shala wrote:Will Wasteland Junk Removal become a salvage NPC corp? JK But seriously will the maps in salvage be similar to the maps in dust or more open like the maps in planetside2 Map size is something we'll be determining through playtesting. We have to find the right balance between player count, drone count, enjoyable exploration and the chance of encounters. Our current test map is larger than a skirmish map, it's still early days.
One more thing. That redline. I like to call her Lady Redline as she looks sexy in red.
Anyways, I just like to point out that the redline should be as far back as possible to promote vehicle use and allow solo players to be able to flank random players without being forced into a funnel like you see in skirmish maps.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5882
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Posted - 2014.05.30 05:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones?
Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point?
Useful Links
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2954
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Posted - 2014.05.30 05:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones?
Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point?
Yes to redeploy (at a cost and if there is still space) and yes to individual player |
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
268
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:29:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Regis, I hope you're happy with my use of emotes. Took me a while to get my head around that.
+1
You have my seal of approval  |
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5882
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Will it be possible to re-deploy to the same salvage field if we run out of clones?
Are the Drones going to hold a grudge against an individual player who is acting "aggressively" or will there be a general "all humans = bad" sort of attitude at a certain point? Yes to redeploy (at a cost and if there is still space) and yes to individual player
Interesting. So then it'd be considered good practice to allow my umm... "friends"... to get the drones' attention and then temp-blue with the drones because we're bros? Kinda like it. Though, admittedly, I'm on the fence as to whether I like this method more than drones being all hyper-aggressive and acing anything that gets near their sweet loot 
Will there be any warning when they're starting to get antsy or will they immediately open fire?
Useful Links
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DAMIOS82
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
121
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. |
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
846
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Posted - 2014.05.30 06:42:00 -
[81] - Quote
So when you deploy the first time, is it via orbital insertion, or do you just show up at a neutral CRU?
(orbital insertion the first time would be an awesome thing)
Dust/Eve transfers
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
268
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Posted - 2014.05.30 07:13:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:
What is the thinking behind clones & spawning in Salvage?
Each player would pay a fee before deploying to cover the cost of their clone jump and a limited number of clones. There would be no teams so the clones are personal. Run out of clones and youGÇÖre out. The idea that you could salvage extra is interesting.
Currently spawning on to the field is handled using a number of neutral CRUGÇÖs available to all.
This I like 
The fee and personalised clone count is similar to what I envisioned with NPC corps providing the transportation (see earlier post).
Question: how is gear and vehicles handled in this scenario? Will we pick a limited load out (fits and vehicles), or do we have access to our entire inventory like in Dust?
Regarding the neutral CRUs:
This concept defiantly makes everything easier since there would not have to be orbital (ship) support to gain access to the district (real or NPC). I guess most temperate planets in High and Low sec would have these for easy access anyway. With that said, I think there need to be some alternative form of transportation, especially for future PC and perhaps really unique sites. (If you don't have neutral CRUs available for example).
WARNING: Lore geek question: How does the neutral CRUs explain how do bring the loot back? 
I would love for some form of EVE integration since I think this is what makes both Legion and EVE unique to any other MMO. However, I understand that the first iteration might not have this. But I think it is important that whatever concept is put in place takes this future into consideration, so we don't end up with radically different systems (or worse, later discover that the second system breaks the first, so no EVE integration will be possible).
My preference (as stated in earlier post) is to come up with ONE concept which applies to all travel, and fits in the New Eden universe. The only difference is NPC corps would manage the logistics in high and low sec, which can later be replaced / expanded with real EVE players. |
Ghural
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
231
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Posted - 2014.05.30 07:29:00 -
[83] - Quote
Will there be drones that attempt to harvest biomass from fallen mercs? |
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CCP Wolfman
C C P
C C P Alliance
2956
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Posted - 2014.05.30 07:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
DAMIOS82 wrote:That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot.
We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about.
We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool. |
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3137
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Posted - 2014.05.30 08:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
I like the idea that you can only store so much gear and if u want more you need to buy or rent bigger warehouse spaces so when you deploy planet side, you get a cargocan worth of space but you need to buy more cans if you end up with a really good haul.
Uuhh put another way, all gear should by a physical thing that moves and or is stored somewhere.
So one day if a mcc is shot down the attackers or defenders can scramble to get all the left over goodies :-P also a very easy to explain slavage sites in the first place.
Also more goods for logi egg heads to ship about filling transport demand too and from new salvagesites(that idea alone gives me goosebumps :-P)
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Vin Vicious
Capital Acquisitions LLC
683
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Posted - 2014.05.30 08:22:00 -
[86] - Quote
Finding salvage fun and interesting will, for the most part, completely depend on the team that creates the maps for legion
'#PCMasterRace
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Vin Vicious
Capital Acquisitions LLC
683
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Posted - 2014.05.30 08:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:DAMIOS82 wrote:That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool.
Backpacks
'#PCMasterRace
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steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3138
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Posted - 2014.05.30 08:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
Short range teleport tech via uplinks to tag items back to safe zone that can be raided :-P (hate the idea of backpacks too small)
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
846
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Posted - 2014.05.30 09:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Personally, I'd like to call in a drone to carry my stuff away after I find salvage. If Amazon can deliver packages with drones now, surely they'll be able to carry off a broken power converter in Eve :)
Dust/Eve transfers
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Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
1002
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Posted - 2014.05.30 09:34:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:DAMIOS82 wrote:That paying for clones before deploying sounds interresting. Is there going to be a set limit on how many you can buy or is it so that if i want to deploy with 10/25/50/100 clones and i have the isk i can do so. Kinda like isk vs reward/loot. Do i spend alot on the clone pack to get all loot or do i spend on a small number, but risk getting killed before i get all loot. We're thinking there will be a limit yes, I think it's important to maintain that feeling of risk and loss. We've not designed it yet though so feel free to toss ideas about. We're also still discussing if we will put limitations on gear as well i.e. you can only take x much stuff with you. No solid design there yet either so any ideas would be cool.
It might be cool if you could choose how much of each fit to bring individually - "I'll take 10 of my regular salvage fit, 10 of my heavy fit for when things get hairy, a few of my scanning scout fit..."
EDIT: Potentially with the ability to restock individual suits as the round progresses, up to a hard clone limit. |
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