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Natu Nobilis wrote:

Severus Smith wrote:

Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure.

A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station.

Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free.

Dude, processing power.

Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount.

One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE.

Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 66 post(s)
Severus Smith Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.06.03 18:15:00 - [1] - Quote I don't know if it's been mentioned on how exactly we will be salvaging. But here's my two cents: I don't want to run around with a salvaging laser shooting at the ground. That to me is just silly, and boring. What I would love is to deploy to a salvage site, find a good area, and then call in a "Terrestrial Salvager". This would be a large NPC vehicle that I need to defend while it salvages the immediate area. Rogue drones hate it - and thus try to destroy it - so they would be my main adversary, but enemy players can also try to capture it (very hard) or destroy it to ruin my day. They could also call in their own Salvager nearby and we could work together to defend the area... This makes salvaging missions more defense based. I deploy, find a good salvage site, call in a Salavger, defend it for the X minutes it takes to salvage the area, then it takes off with the salvage loot and I either undeploy or do it all again at another salvage site. The lower the sec status, and the more drones in the area, equals much better salvage and much stronger Rogue Drones.
Severus Smith Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.06.03 21:39:00 - [2] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Severus Smith wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on how exactly we will be salvaging. But here's my two cents: I don't want to run around with a salvaging laser shooting at the ground. That to me is just silly, and boring. What I would love is to deploy to a salvage site, find a good area, and then call in a "Terrestrial Salvager". This would be a large vehicle that I need to defend while it salvages the immediate area. Ratshate it - and thus try to destroy it - so they would be my main adversary, but enemy players can also try to capture it (very hard) or destroy it to ruin my day. They could also call in their own Salvager nearby and we could work together to defend the area... This makes salvaging more defense based. I deploy, find a good salvage site, call in a Salavger, defend it for the X minutes it takes to salvage the area, then it takes off with the salvage loot and I either undeploy or do it all again at another salvage site. The lower the sec status, and the more rats in the area, equals much better salvage and much stronger Rats. Fixed. There shouldn't only be one enemy NPC type; that would get boring. Oh, I agree. Truthfully, I think that CCP should really use human NPC's for us to fight against. They already have some art assets (our dropsuits) and great lore for who we would be fighting. Guristas, Angels, etc pirates in higher security level 1 - 3 contracts. Sansha in lower security level 3 - 4 contracts. And the original Gen 1 DUST mercenaries being the hardest in nullsec level 4+ contracts. Just reskin the dropsuits, alter the HP / damage / aim stats and you have a wide range of enemies for us to fight from low easily killed pirates to insanely hard Gen 1 mercenaries. Drones just seem very limited (but cool). They're cool, but the idea of them being such a huge nuisance that are all over the galaxy (and not just the drone regions) is a bit far fetched to me. Plus, it's hard to differentiate them. You can make three skins for a dropsuit and suddenly I can fight the Guristas OR the Sansha OR the Angels. With drones, I am always fighting drones - they really don't have factions or anything to add lore flavor. And with human NPC's they can have a wide range of motives for conflict - Gurista salvage teams, Sansha soldiers kidnapping colonists, Angel raiders.. raiding. Drones just do what drones do. And while cool, it's going to get kinda boring...
Severus Smith Caldari State 544	Posted - 2014.06.03 22:35:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: That's not how missions rats work, and we are the gen 1 mercs, but I think you get the gist of what I want: variation in security mission rats. We're Gen 2 clones. Created after Mordu's Private Trials. Else we'd all be going crazy, scrawling 514 across walls with our own blood, and trying to kill everyone.
Severus Smith Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.06.04 14:49:00 - [4] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: That's not how missions rats work, and we are the gen 1 mercs, but I think you get the gist of what I want: variation in security mission rats. We're Gen 2 clones. Created after Mordu's Private Trials. Else we'd all be going crazy, scrawling 514 across walls with our own blood, and trying to kill everyone. This thread says otherwise. And I tried finding a link saying that we are second gen, but I have currently found nothing. That thread actually says otherwise... if you commented "I wish to hunt or become the hunted" then you could possibly get a Templar Renegade character added to your account for a few days for you to play. Any player who kills a Templar Renegade 3x times gets an ISK bounty. The Templar Renegades are the Gen 1 clones who did not join the Amarr Empire. We are the Gen 2+ clones who are hunting the Gen 1's and being paid 2.5 million ISK each by the Amarr to kill them. I can't find a specific article where CCP confirms this. But there are plenty of threads, articles, and lore (news, books, etc) that all hint / support us not being Gen 1 because we would be insane and hunted by all of the Empires.
Severus Smith Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.06.10 00:07:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We plan on creating upgrades for things like salvage scanning, salvage capacity etc. Some good ideas are coming up in this thread for sure. I think thereGÇÖs a lot of scope for progression in this area though of course weGÇÖre trying to stay focused on core gameplay to begin with. Related to that, I donGÇÖt think we need to begin with lots and lots of complex mechanics to create complex and exciting player behaviour. I think a lot of this will be driven by the players themselves and in very early tests weGÇÖve already seen people behaving quite differently (we discovered some trolls in the office for sure!). Salvaging isnGÇÖt a directed game mode like Skirmish or Domination, I am hoping to see it develop a little more organically as people play it and we see how they behave. Speaking of behaviour, I have another question. The plan is that in high sec you will not be able to kill each other and then risk increases with reward throughout the security levels. Outside of high sec what kind of limitations do you think should be placed on PVP in Salvage fields? None at all once you leave high sec? Some controls in low sec? Let me know what you think. Implement an IFF Fire Control module. Basically a module that is equipped in all suits that prevents you from firing on friendly, or neutral, enemies. - This module is required in all High Security systems. Thus no friendly fire. - This module can be removed in Low Security systems. So if you want to go gank / pirate / be an a**hat you have to somehow remove the IFF module (Supply Depot, or redeploy, or something). Without the IFF you show up as an enemy to all around you but are also capable of firing on anyone. - This module is useless in Null Security systems. Friendly fire is always on and you can shoot at anyone. What this does is help preserve trust and decrease ganking. Because people will get PISSED if they just suddenly get lit up by their "teammates" and soon salvaging will only be a single person activity because no one can trust anyone.
Severus Smith Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:54:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: lateris ablon wrote: Quote: Is loot destructible and how do you GÇÿbankGÇÖ it? Yes. The idea weGÇÖre developing is that players use a deployable GÇ£harvesterGÇ¥ to gather loot from a site before you take it to an extraction point to GÇÿbankGÇÖ it. This harvester contains the salvage and can be destroyed or you can be killed and it taken from you. Will the deployable Harvester be launched from a UI? Or will it be dropped by a vehicle we call in?? Will there be an animation that makes it look a bit realistic? You carry it and deploy it yourself. Right now if you die you drop it (and all salvage in it). You always know it's location even if someone else takes it. In that sense it's a little similar to some of ocelots ideas. We experimenting with possible looks and style as well as animations atm. It sounds as if you're already set on a handheld item for harvesting so I doubt this will deter you. But that just doesn't sound fun for an FPS. If I log in to play an FPS I want to shoot at people, or defend something. Not walk around harvesting. Plus it will really suck for the poor soul who is stuck carrying the harvester when everyone is attacked. No one will want that job and it basically leaves one person not having much (if any) fun. How I would do it (if I were in your shoes) would be for players to find a lucrative salvage site and call in a Salvager. Something big that looks like this. It should have some small turrets to help defend itself but mainly it is covered in salvage beams and mining lasers. Once it lands it gets to work clearing the area. The player's job is to defend it from drones / enemy players while it salvages. Once it finishes salvaging, it takes off again with all your loot. Salvage mission complete. What this does: 1. It looks much more awesome. Who doesn't love giant machines with lasers? Plus it spurs PvP when people see a large Salvager descend and land far off in the distance. 2. It is much more fun for all involved. No one needs to pull the short straw and shoot at the ground for X minutes while everyone else gets to fight drones. 3. It makes more sense. Why would immortal mercenaries carry mining equipment instead of weapons? We were cloned specifically for our combat abilities. Why not hire out to others / use drones (like Pod Pilots do) to handle all the tedious industry work? 4. Defend the objective is a well known FPS game style. So it will be much easier for players to pick up on it. And again, much more fun for all involved. Again, I doubt you will change your path now. But if you do I think objective defense of a large Salvager is much more fun and exciting than Oddball "kill whoever is currently holding the Harvester!" That's more for lobby FPS games...
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.11 15:16:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: @ Severus Smith I think you misunderstand, weGÇÖre not thinking of it as a handheld piece of equipment but as a deployable one. Once deployed it would start to harvest the loot (storing it using a quantum hammer space engine). After that you probably want to keep an eye on it in case another player (or a drone comes and takes it away). It is possible to pick it up and carry it whilst using your weapon so it doesnGÇÖt get in the way of shooting. What it does do is provide you with a pretty strong motivation not to die and lose everything you just salvaged from that high quality site you just found on your way to bank it. IGÇÖm not really a fan of getting salvage and instantly banking it. I think there is a lot of gameplay to be had in the space between gaining possession of salvage and actually getting permanent ownership of it. I believe this to be key. One of the reasons weGÇÖre looking at smaller harvesters rather than giant robot harvesters is because it allows you to salvage in more interesting and varied locations i.e. a giant robot canGÇÖt get inside an interior space. I think it would be a shame not to be able to salvage in outpost interiors for example. Not to say giant robots arenGÇÖt cool, perhaps we could introduce deployable mining robots for a total different type of gameplay over time. Also you donGÇÖt have to salvage if you donGÇÖt want to. You could roam around killing others and taking their salvage. You could be fighting domination battles, earning ISK and purchasing gear from people who have been salvaging. ThereGÇÖs more than one way to play. Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free.
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:13:00 - [8] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free. Dude, processing power. Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount. One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE. Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here. If we were on the PS3 then yes, I agree. But we're not. We're on a PC. Titanfall does it with NPC minions. Planetside 2 does it with hundreds of players simultaneously. EVE Online has thousands of objects simultaneously. I do hope that Legion will not explode because a few players called in salvage drones.
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:14:00 - [9] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Thanks for the clarification and I apologize for the misunderstanding. Though, I have another small question. If the "deployable" salvager takes up an Equipment slot then what does that mean for suits with limited, or no, equipment slots? It could easily mean "if you want to salvage get a suit that's built for salvage" but I want to make sure. A final idea of mine. Rather than a deployable piece of equipment, could you instead call in a small salvage drone via the vehicle commands? It follows you, and can fit into small places like interiors, and uses its amazing quantum hammer space engine to compress materials into a small compartment for rapid recovery. Something small like this (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar). Roughly the size of a large dog, with a salvage laser and a small auto-turret. Have them cost as much as a LAV, so you want to defend them but won't be crushed if it is destroyed. Getting them picked up is similar to how you recall a vehicle, or you have to take them to a recovery station. Again, probably not going to happen. But I figured I'd ask since I like drones, and it would be cool to see a squad of players deploying some of these to boost their salvaging rate. And it would also explain why the rouge-drones would not like these guys - they're drones who aren't free. Dude, processing power. Drones consume CPU, CPU is available on a limited ammount. One drone for a player is one less drone for the PVE. Drone - Pet - Companion, whatever we call it, they consume resources that demand a lot in terms of processing, energy and bandwith. EVE changed a lot of drone performance lately because it impacted like crazy on TiDi, they don-¦t want the same to happen here. If we were on the PS3 then yes, I agree. But we're not. We're on a PC. Titanfall does it with NPC minions. Planetside 2 does it with hundreds of players simultaneously. EVE Online has thousands of objects simultaneously. I do hope that Legion will not explode because a few players called in salvage drones.
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:12:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Lilith Serenity wrote: Q: During these matches, will there be a chat service that allows all players on the map to talk to each other? I would hate to be typing a message to determine friend or foe when the shooting starts. I like the idea that I could hire NPCs to fight with me on these salvage missions since I like to lonewolf it most of the time. They won't be cheap for the better geared ones. Ex: I hire a Caldari Smuggler named "Han" and his pal "Chewy", a oversized Brutor, to be my bodyguards while I roam the field for loot. Chewy's packin a forge gun and Han is on over watch in his run down dropship. I'm hacking a site when drones show up and Chewy lets that forge gun rip taking down the bigger drones while Han rains down missiles on the rest. Things get hairy as a squad of clones comes in from the north hammering Hans ship. He bails after taking heavy damage and Chewy follows him out leaving you to fend for yourself. NPCs won't be for hire in low sec due to the high stakes and the fact that they're not immortal like you. So you have to take that risk of trusting someone to cover your back. At a minimum there will be text chat but we are considering some further indication of player intention. There were some interesting thoughts earlier about seeing players with FF on as reds and FF off as blues. More ideas on this would be good to hear. I posted this in another thread: Have an IFF Fire Control module equipped on all suits. It identifies others as Friend or Foe and prevents you from firing on blues. Removing it enables Friendly Fire but also makes you show up as red to everyone. - It cannot be removed in High Sec. So no friendly fire. - It can be removed in Low Sec. So to ambush friendlies you need to remove it somehow (Supply Depot, Redeploy, etc) and thus become red to them. This gives friendlies some warning of betrayal and allows strangers to team up together without extreme cases of paranoia. - It doesn't function in Null Sec. FF in on, always. Next, the colors should be Red (enemy), Blue (ally), and Yellow (neutral). Apply this to everything, including drones. So you could come upon a group of drones who are yellow towards you. But then your trigger happy squad mate fires on them, so they all aggro and become red towards your squad. They are sill yellow (neutral) towards other mercs that are not in your squad. It could also work the same for players. When my squad comes across another squad in High Sec (or anywhere) for the first time they could show as yellow (neutral). Both squads eye each other through scopes but no one fires and we part ways still yellow (neutral) to each other. However, if a squad member (of either group) fires on the other then both squads turn red (enemy) towards each other for 15 minutes. This would allow us to pick out enemies, from neutrals, quickly. Squads can run with NRDS (Not Red Don't Shoot) or NBSI (Not Blue Shoot It) doctrines while deployed and it wouldn't be too complex. Want to make someone red? Shoot them. Want to keep someone yellow? Don't shoot them and hope they don't shoot you.

Severus Smith Caldari State 548	Posted - 2014.07.02 17:10:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Saw some questions about squads, this is how we're thinking... Players do not change state by damaging or killing squad members. It is up to the squad to manage itself and eject anyone causing trouble for the squad. All members of a squad will have a suspicion rating equivalent to the highest state of any member. That is to say, if any member is GÇ£suspectGÇ¥ or GÇ£threatGÇ¥ then all members are shown as such. Squad matesGÇÖ tags remain half-green and the other half is the color representing the squadGÇÖs current state. Upon leaving a squad, the player inherits whatever state he/she had while in the squad. Problem with this. If friendly fire is always on and a squads only defense is policing itself then you're setting yourself up for a HUGE problem. This limits squads to groups of friends / corporations only and completely leaves out new players / less connected players. EVE is a perfect example. How many people mission in "pug" groups? None. it is basically unheard of because once your in a fleet with a stranger they can shoot you with little to no consequence. The only activity resembling a "pug" PVE thing is Incursions; which require ships costing billions of ISK, characters with years of SP, and are policed by OCD fleet commanders with global blacklists. DUST / Legion needs a way for random players to join together without the paranoia that at any moment Squad Member X is going to kill everyone and run with the loot. This will help form a community, get players into corporations, and increase retention. I brought up this in an earlier post as a possible solution. It ensures that there is a small level of trust. That if Squad Member X decides to betray the squad he has to remove his IFF module first, thus showing as hostile and giving the squad some warning. On topic: The threat levels are good. The only suggestion I would have is lengthening the "threat" timer when shown to victims. If Merc X kills me, I want to know he's a threat for far longer than 3 minutes. Maybe make the "enemy" flag where they show up red last for 30 minutes. That way if I get killed I can track that person down.
Severus Smith Caldari State 548	Posted - 2014.07.03 15:30:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Personally whilst I don't think the IFF module is a bad idea, I prefer a reactive system over a proactive one in this case because of the uncertainty it creates. I think it's a shame to lose that aspect of play by telegraphing peoples intentions. One final point, then I'll concede. How is the IFF "proactive" rather than "reactive" and if so, why is this bad for progression..? In scenario A (without an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly Squad Member X lobs a grenade and ARs you in the head. Due to the low TTK and the utter surprise you die pretty much instantly without any chance to retaliate. Maybe the other 4 squad members take him down, but with a well placed grenade and an AR by the time they realize what has happened to you they're also probably dead. This isn't fun. In scenario B (with an IFF module) you and a squad are running around. You've just finished salvaging and are about to extract. Suddenly the message "Squad Member X has removed his IFF module" pops up on the screen and you spin around just in time to see him throw a grenade. Maybe you still die (like above) but at least you had a chance rather than just being gunned down in the back with no contest. This is more fun. To me, they are both reactive. One just alerts you, giving you 1 - 2 seconds to react, while the other happens instantly. That was the benefit of the IFF when I imagined it. In Highsec FF is always off (as your already doing). In Lowsec the IFF must be disabled (thus giving an alert to your intentions). And in Nullsec the IFF is always disabled, thus allowing FF killing anywhere anytime. To me this was a logical progression. You start in safety, then move to an alerting system, then finish with no safety. The risk is offset by the rewards. Without a system like this then your "carebear" players will never leave Highsec. Just like in EVE, a one jump difference goes from relative safety to utterly deadly. There isn't a stepping stone. And while many people will go "this is needed" I disagree. EVE has a large problem with incensing players to move from Highsec to Low to Null. Why? Because dropping from 0.5 to 0.4 means you will lose what your flying. CONCORD doesn't give a **** and gate guns wont save you. You don't want that in DUST / Legion. You want new / carebear players to want to adventure out into Lowsec. There should still be danger, but it is mitigated by something like the IFF where instead of dying instantly to a turncloak or ganker they have a chance to react and survive. 1 - 2 seconds, that's all. Then, when they eventually move to Null, they can deal with the "reactive" situations of FF being always on and having to worry about instantly dying to betrayals. You need steps. Not a cliff.
Severus Smith Caldari State 549	Posted - 2014.07.07 15:07:00 - [13] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Hmmm. I think I have to crawl to the cross and retract my statements of FF OFF within squads After thinking some more about it; this system would (indirectly) also mean that "self FF" (i.e self inflicted) damage is also reduced, which I am not sure is a good idea. To have it affect differently within and outside of squads makes no sense either, both from a game perspective (=confusing), and lore perspective (why is my weapons synced to my buddies, but not my own shields?) Thanks a lot Sylwester , your comments have been nagging me in the back of my head for some time. Guess you were right Back to the drawing board... You could still do it, but it is harder. Turn FF off for weapon damage and make explosives "smart" so that they do not explode if a squad mate is within the explosion radius. We have smart munitions like that in RL now. If nothing else thanks for seeing my point. I too want carnage and the ability to shoot anyone. BUT if you put it in without some safety for squads (your idea is much simpler than mine) no one will run them because people will always betray at the end. You want squads to be fun, not paranoia inducing.
Severus Smith Caldari State 551	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:29:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: That's why we'll test them out, we're not married to both types. Droplinks do offer different benefits though such as the ability to spawn in an interior so that is something that needs to be taken in to account as well. Sky spawing is awesome, I am so happy to hear that y'all are doing it. One problem for the future (if you expand LOD out of Salvage mode, which you should) is that it will suck for a team who takes an installation and has a "front line" to constantly have to worry about random enemy LOD drops into their base. What would be cool, for the future, is a new installation. Anti-Air Defense System. Basically a flak cannon or something that shoots down LOD capsules. When selecting where to drop on the map enemy AA guns would have a large red circle around them. This is the area you can't LOD into. This mainly just helps teams maintain battlefield control.