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To all scouts out there unsatisfied with the new bonuses...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 0	Posted - 2014.01.09 03:47:00 - [1] - Quote I just saw them and have to say that they are pretty bad. Particularly as a minnie scout. Just wanna check in if the other scouts who are out there agree with me on these First off, the universal scout bonus of 10% reduction to pg and cpu usage per level should instead turn into an inherent 50% reduction available to all scout suits (maybe basic light frames as well), and the universal skill should remain the profile dampening bonus Secondly, a universal buff should be given to the scout loadout by increasing equipment slots by 1, and reducing base porfile to 40db The ideas i had for skills are as follows- Caldari: 5% bonus to sniper rifle damage per level, keeps the current cloaking bonus Gallente: 5% bonus to scan precision, 10% bonus to scan range Minmitar: 5% to nova knife damage, 3% to movement speed and sprint speed Amarr: 10% to max stamina, and stamina regeneration, keeps current cloaking bonus Please comment on this, and let me know the communities opinions! If you have other ideas, post them and i'll edit them in as other alternatives
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 576	Posted - 2014.01.09 03:49:00 - [2] - Quote I think min should get the hacking bonus but that's just me. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/1
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 185	Posted - 2014.01.09 03:55:00 - [3] - Quote I'm not enamoured with the listed bonuses, but I'll wait to see what additional changes are being made, particularly around dropsuit slots and stats, and skill and equipment changes. For example: If active scanners values are changing then the profile reduction we currently have may become redundant. Or if the profile dampening skill is being changed. But as it stands, I'll probably have to spec into the Gallente Scout to maintain my current playstyle, and the SP invested into the Mini scout becomes redundant.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1650	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:02:00 - [4] - Quote To hell with the nova knife bonus. Give me commando base melee and a bonus to biotics. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Demon Buddah Corporate Disaster 146	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:09:00 - [5] - Quote I like my knife bonus on my Minnie suit so I don't want to see that go. With the dampening bonus going away though knifing is going to be a lot harder unless they also make us more invisible.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:25:00 - [6] - Quote Caldari: role bonus: 5% to reduced cloak cool-down caldari scout bonus: 5% bonus to sniper rifle damage per level, Gallente: role bonus: 10% bonus to scan range gallente scout bonus: 5% bonus to scan precision, Minmatar: role bonus: 3% to movement speed and sprint speed minmatar scout bonus: 5% to nova knife damage, Amarr: 10% to stamina regeneration Amarr scout bonus: 10% to max stamina ill use these in my feedback/proposal thread for ccp In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:26:00 - [7] - Quote remember people... the faster we go the more were cloaked In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:28:00 - [8] - Quote possibly... hopefuuly though In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 0	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:32:00 - [9] - Quote Quote: I think min should get the hacking bonus but that's just me. I completely agree that they should definetly give the min scout some sort of hacking bonus, but i think it should be included in the suit automatically. The min suits already have a slight hacking bonus compared to other classes, but a base increase would be nice
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:34:00 - [10] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I just saw them and have to say that they are pretty bad. Particularly as a minnie scout. Just wanna check in if the other scouts who are out there agree with me on these First off, the universal scout bonus of 10% reduction to pg and cpu usage per level should instead turn into an inherent 50% reduction available to all scout suits (maybe basic light frames as well), and the universal skill should remain the profile dampening bonus Secondly, a universal buff should be given to the scout loadout by increasing equipment slots by 1, and reducing base porfile to 40db The ideas i had for skills are as follows- Caldari: 5% bonus to sniper rifle damage per level, keeps the current cloaking bonus Gallente: 5% bonus to scan precision, 10% bonus to scan range Minmitar: 5% to nova knife damage, 3% to movement speed and sprint speed Amarr: 10% to max stamina, and stamina regeneration, keeps current cloaking bonus Please comment on this, and let me know the communities opinions! If you have other ideas, post them and i'll edit them in as other alternatives That Cal bonus sound terrible, it's just awful, I like the rest of what you're saying, but that Cal one sounds like you want everybody be Cal Scouts and just slap on their Charge Sniper rifles so they can also kill LAVs and Dropships while they one-hit-murder everything else.

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 0	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:37:00 - [11] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Caldari: role bonus: 5% to reduced cloak cool-down caldari scout bonus: 5% bonus to sniper rifle damage per level, Gallente: role bonus: 10% bonus to scan range gallente scout bonus: 5% bonus to scan precision, Minmatar: role bonus: 3% to movement speed and sprint speed minmatar scout bonus: 5% to nova knife damage, Amarr: 10% to stamina regeneration Amarr scout bonus: 10% to max stamina ill use these in my feedback/proposal thread for ccp Awesome! I think that the scouts should also get a reduction to scan profile for each level like they do now, but that might just be me
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:37:00 - [12] - Quote i agree with you, i forgot to change that to something else In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:39:00 - [13] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Caldari: role bonus: 5% to reduced cloak cool-down caldari scout bonus: 5% bonus to sniper rifle damage per level, Gallente: role bonus: 10% bonus to profile dampening gallente scout bonus: 5% bonus to scan precision, Minmatar: role bonus: 3% to movement speed and sprint speed minmatar scout bonus: 5% to nova knife damage, Amarr: 10% to stamina regeneration Amarr scout bonus: 10% to max stamina ill use these in my feedback/proposal thread for ccp Awesome! I think that the scouts should also get a reduction to scan profile for each level like they do now, but that might just be me fixed ^ In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:40:00 - [14] - Quote help me decide what the caldari scout racial bonus should be In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 0	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:42:00 - [15] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I just saw them and have to say that they are pretty bad. Particularly as a minnie scout. Just wanna check in if the other scouts who are out there agree with me on these First off, the universal scout bonus of 10% reduction to pg and cpu usage per level should instead turn into an inherent 50% reduction available to all scout suits (maybe basic light frames as well), and the universal skill should remain the profile dampening bonus Secondly, a universal buff should be given to the scout loadout by increasing equipment slots by 1, and reducing base porfile to 40db The ideas i had for skills are as follows- Caldari: 5% bonus to sniper rifle damage per level, keeps the current cloaking bonus Gallente: 5% bonus to scan precision, 10% bonus to scan range Minmitar: 5% to nova knife damage, 3% to movement speed and sprint speed Amarr: 10% to max stamina, and stamina regeneration, keeps current cloaking bonus Please comment on this, and let me know the communities opinions! If you have other ideas, post them and i'll edit them in as other alternatives That Cal bonus sound terrible, it's just awful, I like the rest of what you're saying, but that Cal one sounds like you want everybody be Cal Scouts and just slap on their Charge Sniper rifles so they can also kill LAVs and Dropships while they one-hit-murder everything else. I respectfully disagree with you about the cal bonus beign terrible. it might need to be toned down (say 3%), but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers, and as the sniper rifle is caldari tech, it seems only reasonable in my opinion. In addition to this, snipers now are generally not very powerful, unless equipped with 2+ proto damage mods. If scout cpu and pg stay about the same, this would be very difficult to fit in addition to a powerful sniper rifle, without compromising profile dampening capaabilities. I do see what you are saying though.
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4550	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:43:00 - [16] - Quote So for the most part these bonuses sound good. With Amarr, I was sort of hoping for increased stamina, but I am quite liking the sound of less delay between activating my cloak. For Gallente, this is like a match made in heaven. I have a proto Gallente scout that runs a couple complex range amplifiers and your radar is pretty much lit up at all times, you can see everyone coming a mile away. Mix that with being invisible, and things are going to get nasty. And of course Minmatar won't even have to fire a gun to take down the enemies they use cloak to get behind. The only bonus that sounds questionable is the Caldari scout, but I'm not quite sure what exactly it is either. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
icdedppul PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 12	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:43:00 - [17] - Quote role bonus should be universal your across all races
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4550	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:45:00 - [18] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers Scouting means collecting valuable intel to provide to a team. Honestly, it would be so much better if we could keep the "Scout" role focused on infiltration and intel gathering and then release a new specialization off of the light frame called "Marksman" which is more suited for long range combat. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
Scout Registry 386	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:49:00 - [19] - Quote Don't be alarmed! There may be all kinds of goodies waiting for us! In fact, they might be planning to reverse every single nerf they've applied since Chromosome! What does that mean for you, my Scoutly friend? * Better Scan Range * Better Speed * Better Stamina * Better Hitbox * Better Hi/Lo Slot Configs * Better EQ Options * Better PG/CPU Output * And so much more! All this could be just around the corner. So hang in there, Sport! And keep your chin up! CCP appreciates the Scout Community's patience over the past 8 months. CCP will take good care of the Scout.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:49:00 - [20] - Quote Quote: Scouting means collecting valuable intel to provide to a team. Honestly, it would be so much better if we could keep the "Scout" role focused on infiltration and intel gathering and then release a new specialization off of the light frame called "Marksman" which is more suited for long range combat. this can be argued (and i dont want to start a huge argument on here), but several snipers are useful for gathering intel, such as whereabouts of enemies, vehicles, etc. But if the caldari do get said bonus, i think it would also indirectly solve the redline sniper problem, at least to some extent, as it allows for uncompromised mobility, in addition to high damage. Just my thoughts Also, im not sure if you guys can tell, but im rather lacking in the likes department? Anyone wanna be my first like? wink wink Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.

knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:50:00 - [21] - Quote icdedppul wrote: role bonus should be universal your across all races role bonuses are not universal in eve so why should ours be In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1882	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:53:00 - [22] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I think min should get the hacking bonus but that's just me. Same Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:57:00 - [23] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Don't be alarmed! There may be all kinds of goodies waiting for us! In fact, they might be planning to reverse every single nerf they've applied since Chromosome! What does that mean for you, my Scoutly friend? * Better Scan Ranges * Better Speed * Better Stamina * Better Hitbox * Better Hi/Lo Slot Configs * Better EQ Options * Better PG/CPU Output * Better Shotguns * And so much more! All this could be just around the corner. So hang in there, Sport! And keep your chin up! CCP appreciates the Scout Community's patience over the past 8 months. CCP will take good care of the Scout. never heard of you... not showing corp... you know what ccp are planning for scouts... i like you In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 79	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:57:00 - [24] - Quote They do seem very lackluster, esp if scouts lose their dampening bonus without receiving anything in return but I'm not raising my pitchfork just yet. [WARNING: CRYSTALBALLING AHEAD] We don't know how cloaks work yet, they could provide a passive dampening bonus that facilitates/negates the removal of the profile reduction bonus. I'm a hopeful and I'm hoping CCP adds a second EQ slot with a small PG/CPU boost reasoning being that it looks like cloaks are going to be CPU/PG intensive to discourage use by non-scouts hence the new scout role bonus. The only that definite here is the the min scout got hosed big time with these bonuses especially that the hacking bonus was taken from the logi, min scout recieving this bonus seemed like the logical thing.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1	Posted - 2014.01.09 04:58:00 - [25] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I think min should get the hacking bonus but that's just me. Same It seems a lot of people would like this. As the minimitar scout is arguably in the need of the most love right now, replacing a biotic bonus with this would not help it in my opinion. I think a bonus 20% to the base hacking speed on the suit would help it a lot, and people would still be able to superspeed hack Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:00:00 - [26] - Quote why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:04:00 - [27] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:08:00 - [28] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I respectfully disagree with you about the cal bonus beign terrible. it might need to be toned down (say 3%), but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers, and as the sniper rifle is caldari tech, it seems only reasonable in my opinion. In addition to this, snipers now are generally not very powerful, unless equipped with 2+ proto damage mods. If scout cpu and pg stay about the same, this would be very difficult to fit in addition to a powerful sniper rifle, without compromising profile dampening capaabilities. I do see what you are saying though. No, "they" are Scouts, any suit frame can snipe with roughly the same strengths as an other, Scouts were meant to do as their name implies, that's why they are harder to detect and move faster than other suits. The bonus isn't very fair no matter how you look at it, if it's 5% you can easily stack that with weapon's proficiency and with some complex mods, which won't be that hard for the Cal scout since Cal suits have the highest CPU score and the most high slots of all the races. And if it's 3% it makes the Cal commando pointless since he already has a bonus for rail weapons at 2% per level, also Scouts have bonuses for stealth at close range, which reduces the value using a sniper only suit, the current bonus for the Cal vastly exceeds worth compared to what you propose as it covers more possible scenarios while the damage bonus only covers one highly limited playstyle.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 800	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:10:00 - [29] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though then how about caldaari get the knife bonus and the minmatar get the hacking bonus In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 2	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:11:00 - [30] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though then how about caldaari get the knife bonus and the minmatar get the hacking bonus Why would that be? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.

Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4551	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:14:00 - [31] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though then how about caldaari get the knife bonus and the minmatar get the hacking bonus Why would that be? Because the nova knife is a Caldari weapon. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:18:00 - [32] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quote: Scouting means collecting valuable intel to provide to a team. Honestly, it would be so much better if we could keep the "Scout" role focused on infiltration and intel gathering and then release a new specialization off of the light frame called "Marksman" which is more suited for long range combat. this can be argued (and i dont want to start a huge argument on here), but several snipers are useful for gathering intel, such as whereabouts of enemies, vehicles, etc. But if the caldari do get said bonus, i think it would also indirectly solve the redline sniper problem, at least to some extent, as it allows for uncompromised mobility, in addition to high damage. Just my thoughts Also, im not sure if you guys can tell, but im rather lacking in the likes department? Anyone wanna be my first like? wink wink I gave you your second like, I tried to be the first. I agree, sniping can be a great way to scout, but currently, nothing in the game supports long range scouting other than a weapon with a scope, Scout suits have a great deal of bonuses that support stealth at closer ranges, now we know the Cal don't enjoy those kind of ideas, but sadly there is nothing that can change that currently to support long range stealth as it defeats the point of having a lower profile if you're going to be too far way for it to be relevant, which is way heavier frames are more commonly used as snipers, more health, more damage, more equipment, more mods and less hassle.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 2	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:18:00 - [33] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I respectfully disagree with you about the cal bonus beign terrible. it might need to be toned down (say 3%), but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers, and as the sniper rifle is caldari tech, it seems only reasonable in my opinion. In addition to this, snipers now are generally not very powerful, unless equipped with 2+ proto damage mods. If scout cpu and pg stay about the same, this would be very difficult to fit in addition to a powerful sniper rifle, without compromising profile dampening capaabilities. I do see what you are saying though. No, "they" are Scouts, any suit frame can snipe with roughly the same strengths as an other, Scouts were meant to do as their name implies, that's why they are harder to detect and move faster than other suits. The bonus isn't very fair no matter how you look at it, if it's 5% you can easily stack that with weapon's proficiency and with some complex mods, which won't be that hard for the Cal scout since Cal suits have the highest CPU score and the most high slots of all the races. And if it's 3% it makes the Cal commando pointless since he already has a bonus for rail weapons at 2% per level, also Scouts have bonuses for stealth at close range, which reduces the value using a sniper only suit, the current bonus for the Cal vastly exceeds worth compared to what you propose as it covers more possible scenarios while the damage bonus only covers one highly limited playstyle. Thats a very logical argument, but i disagree. With this bonus, I feel that the two different sniper niches used in the game would be more pronounced. With the commando, the large health bonus makes it difficult to be countersniped, even if the enemy does find you. With the caldari scout (if my suggested bonus is implemented) you have an entirely different sniper playstyle, as you have to constantly stay mobile, but in exchange for that you get slightly more firepower than the commando ( 5% comparing the two suits at proto level). I would really like some dev feedback on their opinions here. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 2	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:24:00 - [34] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though then how about caldaari get the knife bonus and the minmatar get the hacking bonus Why would that be? Because the nova knife is a Caldari weapon. Good point, but i think the reason that this hasnt been implemented is because the nova knife is generally deeply ingrained into the "minja" playstyle. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 801	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:27:00 - [35] - Quote i made a logical thread in feedback/suggestions about changing the bonuses of all suits and thier slot layout come check it out feedback/suggestions for slot layout and bonuses In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:33:00 - [36] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i made a logical thread in feedback/suggestions about changing the bonuses of all suits and thier slot layout come check it out feedback/suggestions for slot layout and bonuses I liked it other than 1. The nova knive bonus went to Caldari and 2. I personally thought ccp's assault bonuses were fine, as i predict a massive nerf to all non specialist weapons (i.e. rifles) due to them outclassing most specialist weapons, even in the specialist weapons designed niche. Probably a 15+% nerf to all constant damage weapons Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 802	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:43:00 - [37] - Quote the RoF bonus would be insane and we dont need bonuses to RoF ever since that would decrease TTK In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:48:00 - [38] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Thats a very logical argument, but i disagree. With this bonus, I feel that the two different sniper niches used in the game would be more pronounced. With the commando, the large health bonus makes it difficult to be countersniped, even if the enemy does find you. With the caldari scout (if my suggested bonus is implemented) you have an entirely different sniper playstyle, as you have to constantly stay mobile, but in exchange for that you get slightly more firepower than the commando ( 5% comparing the two suits at proto level). I would really like some dev feedback on their opinions here. The reason Commandos are being given such limited bonuses is cause as CCP puts it, they are an extremely specialized role and should be given more perks to help fill in that niche, the current idea for the Cal scout helps them far more then just a damage bonus for several reasons, but the big one right now is weapons, shotguns, plasma cannons, swarm launchers, sniper rifles, nova knives and scrambler rifles and all associated playstyles benefit from the bonus, while a 5% bonus to sniper rifles only helps the sniper rifle. Now I understand your point an having different sniping fit with Commandos and Scouts, but the only reason Commandos will be balanced with all the extra damage they can do is cause they have very little to work with in terms of versatility cause of their number of slots and the amount of CPU/PG, which is the sacrifice they make to have two L-slots and equpment on a heavy frame, that's what balance the role out. Your idea just gives more damage to a suit that will already be fitted to do more damage from the start, there also wouldn't be a need for any other type of sniper but a Cal, which would be the same issue we had with Cal-Logi-Slayers, we do not need a repeat of that.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 79	Posted - 2014.01.09 06:07:00 - [39] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers Scouting means collecting valuable intel to provide to a team. Honestly, it would be so much better if we could keep the "Scout" role focused on infiltration and intel gathering and then release a new specialization off of the light frame called "Marksman" which is more suited for long range combat. Scouts are marksmen and snipers, their job/role is to scout ahead and report back battlefield commanders overall enemy strength(#'s, equipment, and readiness), when the main force moves they hang back and continue to serve as the commanders eyes while picking off any targets of opportunity they do all that from behind a scope of a sniper rifle or DMR. The infiltration part comes in because usually they have to sneak in behind enemy lines much earlier in advance and have to remain hidden while spying on the enemy. So to say scouts aren't snipers, or it isn't part of their repertoire is just wrong. If anything scouts shouldn't be toting shotguns, it's loud that kind of defeats the point of trying to be sneaky but this is a video game it and it's fun to do.
Oswald Rehnquist 1011	Posted - 2014.01.09 06:13:00 - [40] - Quote First thing is I actually want to see CCP's racials before we dump them, because I have a feeling they are tweaking a few other things that we don't know about. But in the spirit of the thread here is my response. I disagree with said racial proposed in this thread, Of the things that are obvious The Caldari Scout can effectively function as the "anti scout / scout spotter" due to the ability to throw on the most precision mods of any scout, and that is a unique role right there, thus I think its racial should reflect that. CCP has it has a short term offensive harrier which works for me as well in all honestly. Also Gallente Ewar was dedicated to profile reduction, which actually carried over from EVE to dust, so that bonus works for me, the profile reduction skill is a very powerful skill to have as that helps a lot, with the low slot of the gal and the sig reduction bonus would allow this to be the tank / stealth scout. The less obvious ones The Min is a tougher one, the hacking bonus is incredible useful or Ghosts biotic scout would be great. The benefits of the biotic scout would be that the slot starved min would get all of its slots maximized (highs and lows) due to the bonuses Ghost suggested, which turns minor skills into a major package with more flexibility. I don't like the NK bonus only because being tied to one weapon sucks, especially when its not even your own weapon, Ghosts idea allows the non cpu/pg melee to function like the knife. The Amarr scout is the toughest one, but if the Amarr peeps are happy with the stamina increase and regen, that works as it fits with Dust's amarr traits. If this does happen CCP would need to give it a +1 EQ slot over the other scouts to make equipment running useful. CCP's bonuses currently has this as a long term offensive harrier. Below 28 dB

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 4	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:47:00 - [41] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: To hell with the nova knife bonus. Give me commando base melee and a bonus to biotics. I think the nova knife/ melee damage should be included in the biotics bonus. This works, because the nova knives are so highly specialized, and this will not overpower the min scout compared to the other races. But agree 100% that melee damage base needs to be bumped to near commando levels. Just a side note, i think that nova knives will be able to slash while cloaked and not drain the cloak at all, when the cloak does come out. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 196	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:03:00 - [42] - Quote I may never spec into Gallente scout for stealth with that bonus, may just put my cloak on my Gallente logi (I was a tactical logi since closed beta, the only reason I've ever stopped was for the PLC usage (assault for sidearm) and back when raven suit was a top suit (I was raven in mag and was collecting large quantities of isk)) Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 5	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:11:00 - [43] - Quote Galthur wrote: I may never spec into Gallente scout for stealth with that bonus, may just put my cloak on my Gallente logi (I was a tactical logi since closed beta, the only reason I've ever stopped was for the PLC usage (assault for sidearm) and back when raven suit was a top suit (I was raven in mag and was collecting large quantities of isk)) I think the logi cloaking idea is what ccp wants to prevent... Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 851	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:13:00 - [44] - Quote Please support my thread to save the Gal scout, in the feedback section of the forum: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134681&find=unread Thanx {:)}{3GÇó>
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 603	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:14:00 - [45] - Quote Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. In your blind spot
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1096	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:22:00 - [46] - Quote The new bonuses could actually work out well if CCP makes some changes Change suit stats Change min bonus to 5% hacking and buff NK damage or proficiency skill (min's will still be the most proficient with them due to having the highest base speed) Decrease the effectiveness of the gal logi bonus so scouts only need 1 cmp damp to avoid non-focused gal logi proto scanner Make the cal scout have a jammer bonus when that gets released (on top of cloak bonus or replacing it, i don't care) !
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 446	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:30:00 - [47] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quote: I think min should get the hacking bonus but that's just me. I completely agree that they should definetly give the min scout some sort of hacking bonus, but i think it should be included in the suit automatically. The min suits already have a slight hacking bonus compared to other classes, but a base increase would be nice But the hacking bonus makes more sense on a gal scout, as codebreakers seem to be gallente tech...I would love a bonus for RE's on the minni scout.
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 114	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:38:00 - [48] - Quote I have said this before and will say it again: Cal/Gal have ALL the Best toys. CCP takes a dump on the Min/Ammar every chance they get. What Gives? Are we being cowherded into rolls now? CCP, PLEASE give us some Love'n.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 6	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:36:00 - [49] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives SHOTGUNS and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. corrected it :) Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 239	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:40:00 - [50] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Don't be alarmed! There may be all kinds of goodies waiting for us! In fact, they might be planning to reverse every single nerf they've applied since Chromosome! What does that mean for you, my Scoutly friend? * Better Scan Range * Better Speed * Better Stamina * Better Hitbox * Better Hi/Lo Slot Configs * Better EQ Options * Better PG/CPU Output * And so much more! All this could be just around the corner. So hang in there, Sport! And keep your chin up! CCP appreciates the Scout Community's patience over the past 8 months. CCP will take good care of the Scout. Honestly I've learned to keep my expectations extremely low

Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 607	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:37:00 - [51] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives SHOTGUNS and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. corrected it for you :) the assassination idea is a really good one, but would (I think) be rather hard to implement, and if it were implemented, be very inconsistent in output Shotguns are covered under weapon damage And yes I agree - If different hit areas arent already defined (other than head) and cant be easily done it may be difficult. That is why I came up with the other one tied to cloak since it seems where we are being pushed. In your blind spot
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:42:00 - [52] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives SHOTGUNS and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. corrected it for you :) the assassination idea is a really good one, but would (I think) be rather hard to implement, and if it were implemented, be very inconsistent in output Shotguns are covered under weapon damage And yes I agree - If different hit areas arent already defined (other than head) and cant be easily done it may be difficult. That is why I came up with the other one tied to cloak since it seems where we are being pushed. The assassin one though...looks damn good Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
negative49er The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 484	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:02:00 - [53] - Quote for me the future minnie scout make sense invisible + knives= unseen assasion Dedicated Shotgun Scout
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:04:00 - [54] - Quote negative49er wrote: for me the future minnie scout make sense invisible + knives= unseen assasion i also think nova knives should receive a huge reduction in cloak draining when you slash them, so that they would truly be assassination weapons Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2116	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:15:00 - [55] - Quote I don't like the Sniper bonus. Don't like one suit being better than the rest for sniping. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:18:00 - [56] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I don't like the Sniper bonus. Don't like one suit being better than the rest for sniping. I edited it to a 3% reduction. But also, the gallente scout is the best at passive scanning and e-war, minmitar has the fastest speed, and is a great assassin, amarr is the best for covering long distances. As the sniper is caldari tech, I think it seems reasonable that the caldari scout specializes in that particular role of the scout Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Darius Ashran Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 58	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:20:00 - [57] - Quote From CCP Remnant - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 14	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:44:00 - [58] - Quote Darius Ashran wrote: From CCP Remnant - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530 I think the caldari gets a bonus to reduce drain on the cloak's charge, and therefore may allow it to shoot multiple shots with the sniper rifle Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 802	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:03:00 - [59] - Quote so what are the role bonuses you guys think the scout should have? cloak related scan precision/dampener/range related stamina and speed related i need to know so i can update my thread for the scout role/racial bonuses In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:09:00 - [60] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: so what are the role bonuses you guys think the scout should have? cloak related scan precision/dampener/range related stamina and speed related i need to know so i can update my thread for the scout role/racial bonuses Ideally? Note: Assuming scouts have lower base profile to compensate loss of original scout bonus Scout bonus: 15% fitting reduction to Electronic Warfare Equipment (Cloaks, Jammers, etc.) per level Cal scout: Bonus to jammers (range and duration) Gal scout: 5 or 10% increase to Passive scanner range and 5% decrease in scan profile per level(if that is not enough, cloaking efficiency bonus as well) Min scout: 5% increase to hack speed and X% increase in sprint speed (what amount is fair?) per level Amarr scout: X% bonus to max stamina amount, Y% bonus to stamina regeneration, plus some other bonus per level Edit: Other amarrian bonus could also be something not a bonus, such as better stats (more than amarr normally get) or something Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter

knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 803	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:21:00 - [61] - Quote i need you to be more specific, we dont exactly have "good" e-war gear so i might just put a bonus to cloaking In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:25:00 - [62] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i need you to be more specific, we dont exactly have "good" e-war gear so i might just put a bonus to cloaking I meant Electronic Warfare Equipment as a subset of equipment, a group that CCP can add to as more E-War equipment is released so they don't have to change the scout bonus. Cloaking is the only E-War equipment coming out in the near future (which also means the cal scout would need a placeholder bonus until jammers arrive). Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Oswald Rehnquist 1049	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:27:00 - [63] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i need you to be more specific, we dont exactly have "good" e-war gear so i might just put a bonus to cloaking I meant Electronic Warfare Equipment as a subset of equipment, a group that CCP can add to as more E-War equipment is released so they don't have to change the scout bonus. Cloaking is the only E-War equipment coming out in the near future (which also means the cal scout would need a placeholder bonus until jammers arrive). another thing to consider is if jammer strength was based on precision stat, then you could have the cal bonus be to precision similar to how the gal profile reduction stat syncs well with cloaking. Below 28 dB
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 804	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:30:00 - [64] - Quote check out what i have so far In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:35:00 - [65] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: check out what i have so far Cloak fitting reduction bonus will work for now but really needs to be 15% per level. Since logis have 25% equipment reduction and quite a bit more cpu/pg than scouts, any cloak fitting cost that is fair to scouts with a 50% reduction will be easy for logis to fit as well. I'm more partial to the precision bonus Oswald mentioned, but the cloak cooldown would work well enough for me until jammers arrive. Other than that, +1. Edit: Oh, Amarr scout should probably be 2/3 for H/L and Min scout should probably be 3/3. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 19	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:16:00 - [66] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: knight guard fury wrote: check out what i have so far Cloak fitting reduction bonus will work for now but really needs to be 15% per level. Since logis have 25% equipment reduction and quite a bit more cpu/pg than scouts, any cloak fitting cost that is fair to scouts with a 50% reduction will be easy for logis to fit as well. I'm more partial to the precision bonus Oswald mentioned, but the cloak cooldown would work well enough for me until jammers arrive. Other than that, +1. Edit: Oh, Amarr scout should probably be 2/3 for H/L and Min scout should probably be 3/3. I personally think it should be 19% reduction per level to the cloak, and have it cost like 200-320 cpu to fit (10-16 cpu when scout skill is maxed), but also be very difficult for logi/ assaults to fit, as it will compromise their armor/damage modding abilities Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 575	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:37:00 - [67] - Quote So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable.

Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1957	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:43:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I won't be using a Cal Scout, but that sounds awesome. Sounds perfect for eWar. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Citpaan Hacos Hired Bums 53	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:54:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd say that's a point in a case to add EWar info to the HUD. Instant thoughts are maybe some small numbers around the map radar. Perhaps have them change color (and/or blink) if the value changes from what you had when you spawned. Or perhaps an optional / toggleable element that's more substantial, though I'm sure that's quite a bit more work. You'll probably need some kind of similar way to deliver info for command suit bonuses to recipients as well, wont you?
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 682	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:56:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Rather have it being a jamming unit than this, but it it's not doable, it's acceptable. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^

Ralden Caster Omega Elite Mercs INC. 23	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:01:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Every, Single, CCP. Dev. I've. Seen. On. The. Forums. Is. CALDARI. Minmatar Dropship.

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 579	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:02:00 - [72] - Quote Citpaan Hacos wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd say that's a point in a case to add EWar info to the HUD. Instant thoughts are maybe some small numbers around the map radar for Profile, Precision, and maybe Range. Perhaps have them change color (and/or blink) if the value changes from what you had when you spawned. Or perhaps an optional / toggleable element that's more substantial, though I'm sure that's quite a bit more work. You'll probably need some kind of similar way to deliver info for command suit bonuses to recipients as well, wont you? Definitely. UI feedback is something that's being addressed, but as someone primarily responsible for balance and working with what we have now it comes down to a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later ) or c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? In an ideal world, C would be the way to go, but game development is almost never ideal.


CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 579	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:03:00 - [73] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Every, Single, CCP. Dev. I've. Seen. On. The. Forums. Is. CALDARI. I'm Minmatar all the way! Wolfman is Amarr for life. Our DEV accounts were created for us and came Caldari by default.

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7832	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:05:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Ralden Caster wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Every, Single, CCP. Dev. I've. Seen. On. The. Forums. Is. CALDARI. I'm Minmatar all the way! Wolfman is Amarr for life. Our DEV accounts were created for us and came Caldari by default. Hm. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4829	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:12:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. UI could be added later in some form, don't let that stop you from doing an awesome bonus like this! Plus, it'd be pretty visible when you see enemies start showing up on your radar. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8009	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:14:00 - [76] - Quote Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Knox Firmus SCIENCE FOR LIFE 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:16:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Ralden Caster wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Every, Single, CCP. Dev. I've. Seen. On. The. Forums. Is. CALDARI. I'm Minmatar all the way! Wolfman is Amarr for life. Our DEV accounts were created for us and came Caldari by default. CCP Wolfman, my new best friend.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8009	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:19:00 - [78] - Quote EDIT: Nevermind, increase bad, decrease good. Got confused for a sec. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4831	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:22:00 - [79] - Quote Knox Firmus wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Ralden Caster wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Every, Single, CCP. Dev. I've. Seen. On. The. Forums. Is. CALDARI. I'm Minmatar all the way! Wolfman is Amarr for life. Our DEV accounts were created for us and came Caldari by default. CCP Wolfman, my new best friend. He is known as Saint Wolfman ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 580	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:27:00 - [80] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120.


jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 342	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:34:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. The caldari scout idea sounds good But the light frames need a slight hp buff though like 130 or 150 for minmatar shields and slots for all suits need balancing 2 3 5 to 3 4 5, I hated how proto gets 2 slots from adv I use a tablet so beware of typos
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:37:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. If you scout you understand the value of passively raising hostile precision stat so no issue with no visible mechanic, I have a few questions though 1)Would this effect take place within those who enter the Cal Scouts radius or when the Cal scout enters someone's else's scan radius? 2) Also would this be a weaker version of the "dampening reduction" that gal scouts get? Weaker in that a profile reduction protects against active and passive scanners, whereas precision raisers would only protect against passive scanners, which precision is one of the few stats that scouts actually ignore, meaning very few people have low/strong precision passive values anyways, in fact with dampening mods being stronger than precision mods, no one uses precision at all because you get beat out. Obviously you guys can change this facet of the game if you wanted by tweaking the numbers of the precision mods. If the Cal Scout is to get a precision raiser, could it also get a second utility bonus? I suggested a a precision bonus for the off chance that we get an equipment item which uses precision, but whatever you guys would come up with will suffice at this point. CCP Remnant wrote: Definitely. UI feedback is something that's being addressed, but as someone primarily responsible for balance and working with what we have now it comes down to a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later ) or c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? In an ideal world, C would be the way to go, but game development is almost never ideal. This might mean little since I am good without a respec in this current iteration but considering that thy most competitive gamers mostly consist of logi players and with logis changing racials, of course there are going to be players who are upset for no longer min maxing. With scouts I would image there would be less concern with later improvements especially since you guys generally do listen to your player base, I'd survive a change in racials later down the line, so temporary bonuses should be fine especially if they are opening up the role and taking advantage of newer content, seems like a plus to me overall anyways. Below 28 dB
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1680	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:38:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Would there be any possibility of tying in a melee damage boost to an increased damage output of nova knives? It just feels logical. Borne Velvalor, bested my last signature with style. I present a new challenge.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 117	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:40:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Yes please, I'll take 500
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8009	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:41:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the assault role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scouts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 588	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:43:00 - [86] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Would there be any possibility of tying in a melee damage boost to an increased damage output of nova knives? It just feels logical. Well, charged nova knives already pack a whallop. Not sure I'd want to bump them up along with base melee (which was underwhelming even with the skill)

Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1681	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:46:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Well, charged nova knives already pack a whallop. Not sure I'd want to bump them up along with base melee (which was underwhelming even with the skill) What about buffs to basic blade swipes (not charged). As it stands I very rarely see nova knives; albeit the upcoming data mining event on scouts will change that. Borne Velvalor, bested my last signature with style. I present a new challenge.

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 588	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:47:00 - [88] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor.

jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 342	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:48:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Would there be any possibility of tying in a melee damage boost to an increased damage output of nova knives? It just feels logical. Well, charged nova knives already pack a whallop. Not sure I'd want to bump them up along with base melee (which was underwhelming even with the skill) Oh, hey I killed 2 proto galogis with a std minnie light frame with std nova knives yesterday good work ccp now all we need is a very slight lunge because I cant walk as fast as they run, and earlier I jumped into a guy shooting at me and he was missing because of my movement and charged in mid air, and when I landed I released and killed, so much fun I use a tablet so beware of typos
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4835	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:49:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Would there be any possibility of tying in a melee damage boost to an increased damage output of nova knives? It just feels logical. Well, charged nova knives already pack a whallop. Not sure I'd want to bump them up along with base melee (which was underwhelming even with the skill) But what if having nova knives equipped automatically changed all your melees to knife swipes instead of needing to go through the process of switching weapons. It couldn't increase the melee damage, rather it would replace the melee damage with the nova knives damage. And in addition to that, it would make more sense if nova knives damage output were increased by stimulants rather than sidearm damage modifiers, but I can see how they may be an issue relaying that information to everyone since technically the nova knives are a sidearm. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 343	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:49:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Yay me is jelous me wants 1.8 nao I use a tablet so beware of typos
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:49:00 - [92] - Quote Actually I just thought of a utility of a precision raiser, (while small, its something I guess), pending on how strong it is, it would allow you to bring in a team of mediums up undetected against passive scanning scouts. Below 28 dB
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1681	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:52:00 - [93] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: But what if having nova knives equipped automatically changed all your melees to knife swipes instead of needing to go through the process of switching weapons. It couldn't increase the melee damage, rather it would replace the melee damage with the nova knives damage. I'm sure they have the old codex and chromosome melee animation code buried somewhere? Borne Velvalor, bested my last signature with style. I present a new challenge.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 117	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:53:00 - [94] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Actually I just thought of a utility of a precision raiser, (while small, its something I guess), pending on how strong it is, it would allow you to bring in a team of mediums up undetected against passive scanning scouts. You just realized?
Appia Vibbia Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 614	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:55:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Oooh, a reduction to damage. That sounds really nice... so long as you don't decrease the damage on Sniper Rifle, shotgun, or nova knives, all of which are under-performing . And it is really nice to see a Dev comment on this thread, however CCP Remnent are you aware that there is a 348+ page long thread by scouts and about scouts that exists on general discussion? Because coming in and talking on a thread by someone that has not been around very long nor no know place in the scout community really does not help balance or get the opinions of the majority of the players that use the Scout suit. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Cass Caul is no longer my alt [email protected]
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2775	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:55:00 - [96] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Would there be any possibility of tying in a melee damage boost to an increased damage output of nova knives? It just feels logical. Well, charged nova knives already pack a whallop. Not sure I'd want to bump them up along with base melee (which was underwhelming even with the skill) But what if having nova knives equipped automatically changed all your melees to knife swipes instead of needing to go through the process of switching weapons. It couldn't increase the melee damage, rather it would replace the melee damage with the nova knives damage. And in addition to that, it would make more sense if nova knives damage output were increased by stimulants rather than sidearm damage modifiers, but I can see how they may be an issue relaying that information to everyone since technically the nova knives are a sidearm. All due respect I'd rather hit R2 then R1 than jam R3 to knife someone. Stick presses wear out controllers really bad and it's uncomfortable. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4453	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:55:00 - [97] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. I like the sound of that! It would reward players for speccing into a weapon while still keeping it in its intended role and damage profile. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8009	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:55:00 - [98] - Quote I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4835	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:57:00 - [99] - Quote CCP Remnant, if you are looking for ideas regarding suit bonuses, check out this for Assaults and this for Commandos. The Assault bonuses are as KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf described, fitting reductions to weaponry and racial bonuses to make certain weapons operate better. The Commando bonuses are to actually make it a suppression fighter by giving it a large increase to ammo capacity so it can focus on providing suppression fire instead of trying to conserve ammo because of how little ammo we normally get. Giving them the damage bonus to specific weapons is nice, but it encourages them to be more like Assaults than suppression fighters. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 590	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:58:00 - [100] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Oooh, a reduction to damage. That sounds really nice... so long as you don't decrease the damage on Sniper Rifle, shotgun, or nova knives, all of which are under-performing . And it is really nice to see a Dev comment on this thread, however CCP Remnent are you aware that there is a 348+ page long thread by scouts and about scouts that exists on general discussion? Because coming in and talking on a thread by someone that has not been around very long nor no know place in the scout community really does not help balance or get the opinions of the majority of the players that use the Scout suit. That's the problem... it's a 350-odd page thread :) I meant no disrespect to anyone. Just saw a question I could and answered it. I tend to ninja answers in and get out otherwise I'd never get any work done.


Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4837	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:58:00 - [101] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: But what if having nova knives equipped automatically changed all your melees to knife swipes instead of needing to go through the process of switching weapons. It couldn't increase the melee damage, rather it would replace the melee damage with the nova knives damage. And in addition to that, it would make more sense if nova knives damage output were increased by stimulants rather than sidearm damage modifiers, but I can see how they may be an issue relaying that information to everyone since technically the nova knives are a sidearm. All due respect I'd rather hit R2 then R1 than jam R3 to knife someone. Stick presses wear out controllers really bad and it's uncomfortable. It would be an alternative. So R2 + R1 would be option 1, R3 would be option 2, but would work on one control scheme. You decide how you want to do it. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 344	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:59:00 - [102] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. I use a tablet so beware of typos
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:00:00 - [103] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Actually I just thought of a utility of a precision raiser, (while small, its something I guess), pending on how strong it is, it would allow you to bring in a team of mediums up undetected against passive scanning scouts. You just realized? While it is a team oriented buff it actually doesn't help the cal scout very much, again see my other post. Most don't fear scout passive scanning but active scanning, and most groups of medium frames don't actually fear scouts (1 v1 is different) they also dont' exactly sneak when moving, they just charge, which is easy to catch by LoS, and with with a 5% per level you get this 40.5 (1.25)=50.625, which is countered pretty easily. Below 28 dB
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3137	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:01:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Oh God... finally. If nothing else, that will help the infantry game a lot (if the reduction to weapon damage is sufficient). Join my cult.
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:01:00 - [105] - Quote double post Below 28 dB
Appia Vibbia Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:04:00 - [106] - Quote also while Remnant is here... pleasepleasepleaseplesepleaseplease can scouts have their chromosome values for sprint, movement, scan range? And the 6th slot on proto? and type-ii variant of trading a sidearm for second equipment slot... Do you guys realize how much that hurts ever day to see pictures of what we've lost? Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Cass Caul is no longer my alt [email protected]
The-Errorist 456	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:08:00 - [107] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Citpaan Hacos wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd say that's a point in a case to add EWar info to the HUD. Instant thoughts are maybe some small numbers around the map radar for Profile, Precision, and maybe Range. Perhaps have them change color (and/or blink) if the value changes from what you had when you spawned. Or perhaps an optional / toggleable element that's more substantial, though I'm sure that's quite a bit more work. You'll probably need some kind of similar way to deliver info for command suit bonuses to recipients as well, wont you? Definitely. UI feedback is something that's being addressed, but as someone primarily responsible for balance and working with what we have now it comes down to a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later ) or c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? In an ideal world, C would be the way to go, but game development is almost never ideal. What you should do is continue doing plan b and make an official statement on the forums and maybe even in the game, of your intention to make it something else when supporting features are ready.
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:30:00 - [108] - Quote Also since I didn't make it clear, especially with my inquiries, I can live with that bonus until future changes. Below 28 dB

CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 599	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:36:00 - [109] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final)

jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 348	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:39:00 - [110] - Quote yay (ps3) caldari assault base recharge delay caldari assault base recharge rate shield regulaters Go edit base profile should be 30 because doubvule focused active scanner I use a tablet so beware of typos

Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2776	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:41:00 - [111] - Quote I'm really hoping scanners are getting rebalanced as well otherwise minmatar scouts are going to be ruined/made useless by gallente logis with their new bonus. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4846	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:42:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) Anything about radius/precision, and not just for scouts? That's part of the issue with the proposed idea of making the Cal scout's bonus an increased scan precision to enemies within a certain radius; with only 10 meter passive scan radius on all other suits no one is really getting much benefit to passive scanning anyways or have the precision to pick anyone up (since precision is the same as profile signature on most suits). The bonus sounds cool, but it wouldn't have much effect. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3983	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:43:00 - [113] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) fantastic was worried about that, is there any change to passive scan range as well? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 196	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:52:00 - [114] - Quote [ KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... give caldari a 5% optimal range bonus to hybrid-railgun weapons per level
Piraten Hovnoret molon labe. Public Disorder. 225	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:59:00 - [115] - Quote Just give scouts 2 e lots and I will be happy War never changes
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 411	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:06:00 - [116] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd personally love this, doubles as personal protection from hostile passive scanning while also indirectly helping nearby teammates The language of scan precision is a bit confusing though, especially for people not familiar with the way scanning works. "increases scan precision" sounds like a benefit to the hostile players I'd suggest wording that bonus if you decide to try it out like this: "Worsens the passive scan precision of enemy dropsuits within your passive scan radius by x% per level"
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 463	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:11:00 - [117] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. So wait... Are you suggesting it would increase the precision of Allied or Enemy units within it's radius? On another note, I think it would be interesting if there was a suit that changed it's DB profile depending on how far it is from the target... meaning if it's outside of the passive scan it's practically invisible, but if caught inside the passive, it lights up like a Christmas Tree. Might be a risk/reward suit for shotgunners? Don't think knifers would like it though. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 360	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:32:00 - [118] - Quote Really like a lot of what's being revealed in here. I always wanted a covert ops suit that offered a scan profile reduction to squad members within a small radius surrounding the dampener merc . Thanks for dropping in and giving us some info Mr Remnant. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3989	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:42:00 - [119] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. I'll take it! Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 215	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:43:00 - [120] - Quote im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it.


CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 620	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:48:00 - [121] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though)

hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 215	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:49:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. nice I like the Idea but I would also like to see equipment with this function, from deployable scanners, to scramblers that give false tacnet positives to jammers that drop the scan precision of suits in their range. but ewar suits would be awesome.
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 247	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:50:00 - [123] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Makes me happy Gÿé Syeven 514
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3989	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:51:00 - [124] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 215	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:52:00 - [125] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Citpaan Hacos wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd say that's a point in a case to add EWar info to the HUD. Instant thoughts are maybe some small numbers around the map radar for Profile, Precision, and maybe Range. Perhaps have them change color (and/or blink) if the value changes from what you had when you spawned. Or perhaps an optional / toggleable element that's more substantial, though I'm sure that's quite a bit more work. You'll probably need some kind of similar way to deliver info for command suit bonuses to recipients as well, wont you? Definitely. UI feedback is something that's being addressed, but as someone primarily responsible for balance and working with what we have now it comes down to a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later ) or c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? In an ideal world, C would be the way to go, but game development is almost never ideal. any chance you could describe how passive suit scanners work, or at the very least a dev blog on the subject??? Its been the subject of some debate, and I would love a final answer. Even if that answer is, this is how it works now but its no what we want or plan to keep.
George Moros Area 514 274	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:53:00 - [126] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Whatever you do to damage mods, please, please, PLEASE, don't make the bonus difference across tiers so enormous. The 3-5-10% is grossly rewarding people with skill at 5. Similar situation is also with shield extenders and some other modules. Sorry for going off-topic. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 215	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:57:00 - [127] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. have you guys talked about an increase to base suit HP? if so what was the fall out of that conversation??
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3989	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:58:00 - [128] - Quote George Moros wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Whatever you do to damage mods, please, please, PLEASE, don't make the bonus difference across tiers so enormous. The 3-5-10% is grossly rewarding people with skill at 5. Similar situation is also with shield extenders and some other modules. Sorry for going off-topic. Well isn't that what skills are for, to make improvements the more you invest? I hate damage mods as much as the next guy but flatlining the a mod's bonus leaves it underpreforming, just look at shield extenders. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 216	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:02:00 - [129] - Quote George Moros wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Whatever you do to damage mods, please, please, PLEASE, don't make the bonus difference across tiers so enormous. The 3-5-10% is grossly rewarding people with skill at 5. Similar situation is also with shield extenders and some other modules. Sorry for going off-topic. I would like to see modules in this game be brought more in line with eve numbers of about a 33% increase from T1-T2, I mean how does a shooter mmo have a more drastic difference between high and low tier gear then a stat driven rpg mmp. doesn't really make sense gameplay wise.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 710	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:02:00 - [130] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Hmmm... running around with just knives ..Sounds like fun "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"


CCP Remnant C C P C C P Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:03:00 - [131] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though.

hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 216	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:04:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) have I ever told you you're my heeeeeeeerrrrrooooooooooooo. side arm loss is gonna hurt but equipment was more important to me anyways.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 358	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:04:00 - [133] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Hmmm... running around with just knives ..Sounds like fun it is I use a tablet so beware of typos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 358	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:05:00 - [134] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) have I ever told you you're my heeeeeeeerrrrrooooooooooooo. side arm loss is gonna hurt but equipment was more important to me anyways. inb4mltcloaks I use a tablet so beware of typos
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3989	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:06:00 - [135] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. I take it back, the alternative sucks. Edit: But damn it not having a primary because my bonus to NKs sucks harder. I'm so confused! Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 216	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:06:00 - [136] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. damn it I want to scream no, but with mim bonuses being in NK it would be stupid to take their sidearms from them.........gah what ever ill adapt.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4871	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:10:00 - [137] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Is it really necessary to remove the sidearm at all though? I mean, I see your reasoning that if they get a second equipment slot then got to take something away, but truth of the matter is one of those equipment slots needs to be filled with a cloak so you still only really have one. I don't think scouts with sidearms and two equipment would be all that bad. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2555	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:12:00 - [138] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. I know the old type-2 suits were just for testing purposes but I'd love to see variants within each racial line. As a Minmatar the primary version should be focused on assassination but having an alternate that loses the sidearm and gains an equipment slot would be much appreciated. Since the same assets are used it should be cheap to add and you could double the number of choices for scouts. Please bring back the Type-II! // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
George Moros Area 514 276	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:15:00 - [139] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Well isn't that what skills are for, to make improvements the more you invest? I hate damage mods as much as the next guy but flatlining the a mod's bonus leaves it underpreforming, just look at shield extenders. Of course skills are meant to improve your performance the more you invest in them. The problem is that 3-5-10 (or 22-33-66) spread makes lower tier gear totally worthless when compared to complex. This highly favors players with high SP amounts. If a certain module is only worth using at complex level (requiring skill at 5), then you are creating even more disparity between new and old players. As if there already isn't enough. Something like 5-7-10, or even 6-8-10 would be much more reasonable IMHO. I also mentioned shield extenders, but in a different context. If you think shield extenders are under performing in general, that is an entirely different issue. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 196	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:23:00 - [140] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Citpaan Hacos wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd say that's a point in a case to add EWar info to the HUD. Instant thoughts are maybe some small numbers around the map radar for Profile, Precision, and maybe Range. Perhaps have them change color (and/or blink) if the value changes from what you had when you spawned. Or perhaps an optional / toggleable element that's more substantial, though I'm sure that's quite a bit more work. You'll probably need some kind of similar way to deliver info for command suit bonuses to recipients as well, wont you? Definitely. UI feedback is something that's being addressed, but as someone primarily responsible for balance and working with what we have now it comes down to a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later ) or c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? In an ideal world, C would be the way to go, but game development is almost never ideal. i vote C.

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1304	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:33:00 - [141] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Why not both? Type A and type B, like in chromo "Our Blueberries are better than yours" *My Terribad Bolas Launcher*
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 99	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:47:00 - [142] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Why not both? Type A and type B, like in chromo ^ this! limited only to one weapon could be terrible (like the SG has nearly no place in this game alone, since there are too open maps)... maybe CCP should remove the basic light frames (they are useless anyways in the age of the scanners) and give the type II Suits their appereance (so nothing gets lost :D).... well but then the scouts suits would be the only suits that have no basic frames... we would need then a higher SP requirement to get into Sout dropsuits (like 4 or 5) to compensate the save in SP....
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1561	Posted - 2014.01.13 11:24:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) Even with that bonus a Gallente scout needs two dampeners to hide from a freaking Advanced Gallente scanner. And impossible to hide from a proto scanner. Please nerf scanners so the difficulty of dampening matches the difficulty of scanning...
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 118	Posted - 2014.01.13 11:31:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Wat?.....you're joking right? Please, be joking.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 454	Posted - 2014.01.13 11:39:00 - [145] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Wat?.....you're joking right? Please, be joking. We had a scout back in chromosome that got + 1 equipment and lost the sidearm this suit was quite popular among scouts..
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 454	Posted - 2014.01.13 11:44:00 - [146] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) Even with that bonus a Gallente scout needs two dampeners to hide from a freaking Advanced Gallente scanner. And impossible to hide from a proto scanner. Please nerf scanners so the difficulty of dampening matches the difficulty of scanning... Are you sure? The only suit that is able to detect a proto gal scout with advanced scanners would be the gal logi (and that just because the rounding mechanic) As soon as you get one level in profile dampening even the gal logi needs a pro scanner... With one complex dampener on a gal scout even the gal logi will need the focussed scanner...
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1563	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:22:00 - [147] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I very much appreciate the replies CCP Remnant. I tried to edit my post to add this, but didn't do so fast enough: In regards to scouts. I am also worried about the effects of the new Gallente logi active scanner precision bonus on the scout's ability to be stealthy. I would recommend changing it to a range bonus, or nerfing the base precision of active scanners to compensate. Active scanners are already so prevalent as it is right now, and there is no active counter; passive scan is countered by passive dampening, but active scanner equipment has no equipment to counter it. There are prototype scanner variants that require 4 complex dampeners on a maxed out scout to evade (according to some calculations), and this is without the help of a precision bonus. I fear active scanners may severely hurt the stealth niche. Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) Even with that bonus a Gallente scout needs two dampeners to hide from a freaking Advanced Gallente scanner. And impossible to hide from a proto scanner. Please nerf scanners so the difficulty of dampening matches the difficulty of scanning... Are you sure? The only suit that is able to detect a proto gal scout with advanced scanners would be the gal logi (and that just because the rounding mechanic) As soon as you get one level in profile dampening even the gal logi needs a pro scanner... With one complex dampener on a gal scout even the gal logi will need the focussed scanner... When I specified Gal scanner I was referring to the Gal Logistics scanner. Also just redid my math and a Gallente scout can use 1 complex dampener to hide from an advanced Gal scanner but it's impossible to hide from proto. Based on the assumption CCP reduces scan to 35.
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 361	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:30:00 - [148] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: When I specified Gal scanner I was referring to the Gal Logistics scanner. Also just redid my math and a Gallente scout can use 1 complex dampener to hide from an advanced Gal scanner but it's impossible to hide from proto. Based on the assumption CCP reduces scan to 35. I dare say any math don off of current stats and partial stats from this thread won't be indicative of what we're getting in 1.8 which seems to be a complete overhaul of everything. Also, FML...a logibro from the start, soon to be speccing balls deep into scout...I had dreams of FINALLY having a side arm So close and yet so far. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1563	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:38:00 - [149] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: When I specified Gal scanner I was referring to the Gal Logistics scanner. Also just redid my math and a Gallente scout can use 1 complex dampener to hide from an advanced Gal scanner but it's impossible to hide from proto. Based on the assumption CCP reduces scan to 35. I dare say any math don off of current stats and partial stats from this thread won't be indicative of what we're getting in 1.8 which seems to be a complete overhaul of everything. Also, FML...a logibro from the start, soon to be speccing balls deep into scout...I had dreams of FINALLY having a side arm So close and yet so far. I was going to spec I to scouts. But now I'm not because of the sidearm thing.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 121	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:41:00 - [150] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: When I specified Gal scanner I was referring to the Gal Logistics scanner. Also just redid my math and a Gallente scout can use 1 complex dampener to hide from an advanced Gal scanner but it's impossible to hide from proto. Based on the assumption CCP reduces scan to 35. I dare say any math don off of current stats and partial stats from this thread won't be indicative of what we're getting in 1.8 which seems to be a complete overhaul of everything. Also, FML...a logibro from the start, soon to be speccing balls deep into scout...I had dreams of FINALLY having a side arm So close and yet so far. Same here, I was planning on rolling a NK+weapon scout. NK only seems erm.....

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4285	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:42:00 - [151] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Why not both? Type A and type B, like in chromo Two types of specialist Light Frame suit - just like Medium and Heavy suits get. Medium has Assault and Logi, Heavy has Sentinel and Commando, and I propose that we should get Scouts and Infiltrators for Light Frames. Scouts qould have 1 Equipment slot, slots for Light Weapon and Sidearm, and a bonus reduction to Scan Precision on Active Scanners (the Precision stat on the Scanners would need to be increased so this ends up as a nerf to scanning Logis instead of making Proto Scanners literally unbeatable). Infiltrator suits with 2 Equipment slots, no Sidearm, and the planned cloak fitting bonus. ALL Light Frame suits - including the basic frames - should get the reduced shimmer effect while cloaked. This way, an Infiltrator suit will be the ideal cloak platform, but a Scout will still use the cloak better than an Assault or Logi could, and players still training up for the Infiltrator suit would see some benefit from using the suit they're starting to invest in to unlock their intended role.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 400	Posted - 2014.01.13 12:47:00 - [152] - Quote I really don't see how CCP think this is anyway acceptable..... You've left Gal/Min scouts struggling to perform for months.... The new suits get to be released and I'm lost with all the BS I am seeing 2 equipment on scouts.... but not all scouts... 1 weapon on scouts ... lol all the guys skilled with NK or SG and you think one weapon is OK?? Passive bonus to a cloak that is pretty likely going to leave us vulnerable, and lacking equipment ....... Why spend months giving players the limited options we have had, and adapted to Just to bring out new suits to keep all the 30mil SP players happy with a new toy they can abuse your game with Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 454	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:04:00 - [153] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: When I specified Gal scanner I was referring to the Gal Logistics scanner. Also just redid my math and a Gallente scout can use 1 complex dampener to hide from an advanced Gal scanner but it's impossible to hide from proto. Based on the assumption CCP reduces scan to 35. Sure but IF these numbers come and the gal scout gets the 35 db. Based on my math its possible to beat every scanner in the game for the Gal scout (just not practical). The gal scout gets down to 26.25 (26) db through skill (-5% to scanprofile / level) that should beat any normal proto scanner and the gal logi adv scanner. Now with profile dampening lvl 5 the gal scout comes down to ~ 23.6 (24) thats not enough to beat the gal logi with a proto scanner (the gal logi protoscanner will have 21 db scanprecision) but if you slap on one complex dampener the gal scout would be around 17.7 (18) db thats low enough to the gal logi with a protoscanner. Now to the focussed scanner with the gal logi the focussed scanner has a scanprecision of 11.25 (11) in order to beat that number the gal scout would need three complex dampeners that should bing the gal scout down to 9.9 db (10)...
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 239	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:07:00 - [154] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius Tottaly support this, i love eWar. CCP Remnant wrote: Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) & after this i have a question, is there any changes to base presicion scan (on scouts), precision modules? Because this changes will make passive scan scout fitts almost useless I use my own 'hunter' fitt based on adv. gallente scout & it's barely viable as objective defender (only inside small-medium buildings). For example on scouts suits: 1 basic profile dampner + lvl5 skill - totaly beats 2 complex presicion enchancer + lvl5 skill & that possibly new Caldari Scout skill will totaly negate any form of passive scan if no changes to precision profile, modules. Also, you can see dot's but you barely can tell what is coming by it's moving\sprint speed. So maybe in future add small letters to scanned dots? L, M, H. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Scout Registry 441	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:33:00 - [155] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Wat?.....you're joking right? Please, be joking. We had a scout back in chromosome that got + 1 equipment and lost the sidearm this suit was quite popular among scouts.. We Scouts had alot of things back in Chrome. * substantially faster * harder to hit * had stamina and jumps for days * had better slot configs * had a decent shotgun * had substantially better scan stats Today's Dust and today's Scout are nothing like those of Chromosome. With respect, you're comparing Apples and Oranges.
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 168	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:41:00 - [156] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Wat?.....you're joking right? Please, be joking. We had a scout back in chromosome that got + 1 equipment and lost the sidearm this suit was quite popular among scouts.. We Scouts had alot of things back in Chrome. * substantially faster * harder to hit * had stamina and jumps for days * had better slot configs * had a decent shotgun * had substantially better scan stats Today's Dust and today's Scout are nothing like those of Chromosome. With respect, tyou're comparing Apples and Oranges. Also, we didn't have the Minmatar back in Chrom. The Gallente can get by without a sidearm without sacrificing much, but the Minmatar has a racial bonus to the most situational sidearm there is, meaning it has to sacrifice a primary to take advantage of it.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1312	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:42:00 - [157] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. I think that it should be two and two. Minmatar and Caldari (or Amarr) should get a sidearm slot. and Gallente and Amarr (or Caldari) should get two equipment slots. Simply because if only one race has the sidearm slot you are going to see a drift towards the suit with extra guns . The utility of a sidearm in a PvP combat game far ourweighs the ability to fit an extra equiment slot. People are going to want to fit a cloaky knifer with a backup range weapon for when the jump slash doesn't work, two races with the sidarm slot will be better than one. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 455	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:42:00 - [158] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Wat?.....you're joking right? Please, be joking. We had a scout back in chromosome that got + 1 equipment and lost the sidearm this suit was quite popular among scouts.. We Scouts had alot of things back in Chrome. * substantially faster * harder to hit * had stamina and jumps for days * had better slot configs * had a decent shotgun * had substantially better scan stats Today's Dust and today's Scout are nothing like those of Chromosome. With respect, you're comparing Apples and Oranges. Yeah I remember but to be fair that bad hit detection for scouts was really a joke. And at least something is going to come back within the next updates as it seesm now. But honestly I don't thing the scouts speed was really higher than it is now
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 772	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:43:00 - [159] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. FYI, the only logi suit with a side arm is Amarr...not sure if that is a theme that is present within the lore or something you want to stick with... *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1198	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:55:00 - [160] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd love this only if scouts got a boost to base scan range and my cal scout had a 4/2 or 3/2 slot layout so I could equip enough range extenders so I can affect more people than the guy standing next to me. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter

Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4594	Posted - 2014.01.13 13:58:00 - [161] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) http://youtu.be/wm2RZXAMJxs?t=10s Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 521	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:02:00 - [162] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. this is actually a great idea and it fits the pattern u guys usually use. OAN: high CPU/PG for the cloak is music to our ears......now if we could only get you to do the same thing with the active scanners [and add a long cooldown]
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1210	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:02:00 - [163] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. Also our low slots need our red/greens an have no room for hack mods. This also poses a HUGE CONCERN WITH PROFILE. How can we be fast ninjas with a 40.5 db after maxing complex damp? THIS MEANS ONE COMPLEX PD GIVES YOU 30 db an a 9.36 sprint, two gives you 22 db a8.36 sprint BUT OUR CPU IS TOO LOW TO DO THIS, PLUS WEAPONS AN SHIELDS! CCP REALLY LOOK AT THIS, how is a speedy ghost ninja gonna be speedy an ghost? Also why can't the scout just have the mod for cloak built in the suit like a vehicle passive? Why cant I cloak an run a uplink? SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1198	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:03:00 - [164] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: That's the problem... it's a 350-odd page thread :) I meant no disrespect to anyone. Just saw a question I could and answered it. I tend to ninja answers in and get out otherwise I'd never get any work done. If there are any questions you would like to ask scouts, I'm sure all of us that hang out in the registry would be glad to answer them (after getting over the shock of a blue tag in the registry ). Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:13:00 - [165] - Quote I'll adapt to anything at this point, the challenge is fun at any rate, so it looks like I might have to hang up my duel sidearm fits then, this pretty much nullifies any pistol usage due to low ammo (which is why you needed two), the smg and the magsec might be the only viable sidearms with one slot, so I am excited about the magsec at any rate. A second equipment slot would help longer and self sufficient sniping so there is that. Below 28 dB
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 301	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:25:00 - [166] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) I can't like this enough. Getting an extra equipment slot at the cost of a sidearm, and keeping cloaks nearly impossible to fit for anyone but Scouts. Though like I've mentioned in the past, if Scouts lose firepower for the extra equipment then we need another light suit that's oriented toward combat. The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
Scout Registry 441	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:28:00 - [167] - Quote @ CCP Remnant Kindly pardon the awkward layout to follow; I'm hoping to catch up succinctly. Remnant: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. On Jammer Scout: This could be really cool. I'd propose coupling the precision boost with an interference field which disrupts affected hostile tacnet and tacnet relay. This would offer the more useful advantage and offer the CalScout's prey defensive opportunity. The prey's fuzzy tacnet alerts him to the change in precision status; he now knows a CalScout is in the vicinity, possibly stalking him; he now must visually acquire the stalker; he knows that his Active Scanner won't relay tacnet data to him or his team. Remnant: a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later Ugh) c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? On Bandaids: Nothing wrong with damage control measures. Scouts understand that you're working toward a long-term goal; in the interim, one might offer to restore some or all of Chrome base statistics (speed, stamina, scan range, CPU/PG, etc) as Bandaid for while we wait. Remnant: The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. ... charged nova knives already pack a whallop. Not sure I'd want to bump them up along with base melee (which was underwhelming even with the skill) On Melee Buff: Minjas are deadly, but they're also squishy. They pick a weak or lone target, hit him hard from behind, then return to the shadows. Knives are their best option. A melee buff -- which doesn't affect knives -- would neither be used nor would it be well received by the Minjas. Remnant: That's the problem... it's a 350-odd page thread :) I meant no disrespect to anyone. Just saw a question I could and answered it. I tend to ninja answers in and get out otherwise I'd never get any work done. On Scout Registry: No offense taken. We'd kinda like our Secret Hangout to remain a Secret Hangout :-) Remnant: Scouts are a getting a buff to base scan profile (probably a reduction down to 35, though the exact number isn't final) On Scan Profile Buff: Thank you. At present, a Level(5) Scout can innately beat Advanced Scanners. He needs to run a Dampener to beat a prototype scanner. This is already asking alot, considering how low-slots are in such high demand and such short supply. Remnant: Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) On Secondary Weapon Removal: This is going to hurt us on so many levels. With respect, you've dangled cloak as carrot. It was to be what set the Scout apart from other frames. It was to be worth the wait. Now that it is here, we must sacrifice (1) our chosen squad-support EQ or (2) our sidearm or knife? The Chrome Type-II argument will not hold; the Chromosome Scout was far superior to the Uprising Scout. We were nerfed HARD and have been waiting for Hugs ever since. Quid Pro Quo is not a Hug. Is there anything that we can do to encourage you to reconsider this position? o7
Oswald Rehnquist 1081	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:28:00 - [168] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Also our low slots need our red/greens an have no room for hack mods. This also poses a HUGE CONCERN WITH PROFILE. How can we be fast ninjas with a 40.5 db after maxing complex damp? THIS MEANS ONE COMPLEX PD GIVES YOU 30 db an a 9.36 sprint, two gives you 22 db a8.36 sprint BUT OUR CPU IS TOO LOW TO DO THIS, PLUS WEAPONS AN SHIELDS! CCP REALLY LOOK AT THIS, how is a speedy ghost ninja gonna be speedy an ghost? Also why can't the scout just have the mod for cloak built in the suit like a vehicle passive? Why cant I cloak an run a uplink? CCP mentioned that the db might be reduced to 35, so 31.5 plus one complex = 23.6, tauntingly not low enough to dodge a proto gal logi scanner, then one militia/advance dampener gets you below the non focus proto variants. And in the post made earlier the trade off CCP is thinking is sidearm for a second equipment slot, which is a tough one to swallow either way. Glass Cannon flanker is the direction the min is going. Below 28 dB
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 912	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:34:00 - [169] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Is it REALLY necessary to remove to scouts sidearm inorder to give them an extra equipment slot? If it is (which I couldn't posibaly conceive of why) then I suggest the following: Just bring back type-IIs. You could call it x/2, x/2-series and xk.1. It would be like weapon variants. Is there some kind of percived problem where people are going to QQ over logis, assaults and heavies not having variants. It's not going to happen. Everybody remembers the old type-IIs for the med and heavy frames, one was geared toward armor tank and the other toward shield tank. We already have these now. The type-II scouts were diferent, for one, the very small amount of lean toward shield/armor wasn't a factor when deciding which suit to use. The desideing factor was whether or not you wanted an Eq slot or a sidearm. Forcing 3/4 races to not be able to fit a side arm is a bad idea (even forcing one or two races would be in fair. Just give the option to be able to use a type-II model. {:)}{3GÇó> Please help me save the Gal scout!: linky
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 941	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:43:00 - [170] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. I take it back, the alternative sucks. Edit: But damn it not having a primary because my bonus to NKs sucks harder. I'm so confused! Can't we just give up a module and/or a grenade slot and get both the weapons AND 2 equipments? Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4296	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:43:00 - [171] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Just bring back type-IIs. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Light Frame variants. Heavy: Sentinel/Commando. Medium: Assault/Logi. Light: Scout/Infiltrator. The Scout would remain as-is - no fitting bonus on cloaks, Light weapon and Sidearm with only one Equipment slot, and maybe a bonus to Active Scanners to better fill the "Scout" role. Infiltrators would be the reworked Scout suit with fitting bonus for Cloaks, and the trade-off with an extra Equipment slot in exchange for their Sidearm. All Light Frame suits should get the reduced "shimmer" effect when cloaked, not just the Infiltrator, but with the higher fitting costs, it will still be less than optimal if you build a cloaked non-Infiltrator suit.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 625	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:44:00 - [172] - Quote From another post I made in another thread: 1. slightly higher stamina but much higher stamina regen 2. removal of fall damage - should only die if you fall from a distance where you fail to activate inertia dampeners If the tacnet was improved for scouts to work similar to stealth games where we could see targets well in the immediate area then there would be no true need for the second equipment slot. A player could then choose to use a scanner to help the squad or a cloak to infiltrate better - they wont be reliant on them and have to forego other helpful equipment. I wholehearted echo SR's sentiment - Please leave the sidearm and make it possible for Scouts to be fine even if they choose to forego the cloak. Only speaking for myself. As a Min Scout I would be fine if you left the Minnie as is giving it a proper role bonus In your blind spot
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 625	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:46:00 - [173] - Quote @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant In your blind spot
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4296	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:53:00 - [174] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant 1. Was it ever confirmed it would be Light? 2. Is it in the game yet? 3. Is it confirmed to be coming in 1.8?
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 912	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:54:00 - [175] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Just bring back type-IIs. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Light Frame variants. Heavy: Sentinel/Commando. Medium: Assault/Logi. Light: Scout/Infiltrator. The Scout would remain as-is - no fitting bonus on cloaks, Light weapon and Sidearm with only one Equipment slot, and maybe a bonus to Active Scanners to better fill the "Scout" role. Infiltrators would be the reworked Scout suit with fitting bonus for Cloaks, and the trade-off with an extra Equipment slot in exchange for their Sidearm. All Light Frame suits should get the reduced "shimmer" effect when cloaked, not just the Infiltrator, but with the higher fitting costs, it will still be less than optimal if you build a cloaked non-Infiltrator suit. I'm not looking for another SP sink (besides the pilot is going to be the second suit under light). Just add the type-II to the market if necessary, and in my opinion it is not at all necessary just add an extra Eq slot to all scouts "done and done". {:)}{3GÇó> Please help me save the Gal scout!: linky
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 625	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:00:00 - [176] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant 1. Was it ever confirmed it would be Light? 2. Is it in the game yet? 3. Is it confirmed to be coming in 1.8? Thought is was assumed to be light given the brief time the skills and stuff showed up in the game. When it comes who knows. I wouldnt mind the pilot suit being the only one able to access hav / ds but I'm sure some will be up in arms about that. In your blind spot
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 494	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:03:00 - [177] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable If I understand this correctly, this is Inherently a buff to those surrounding the scout? While I understand the need to make scouts more useful in battle, this would only be useful to other non-scouts. I just sometimes get frustrated when scouts are thrown into the role of "supporting" other frames. Especially when other frames cant always keep up. Scouts are 9 times out of 10 better off running solo than in a group of medium frames. Mostly due to different attack angles and scan profiles. I feel Ewar in this iteration is better suited to a logistics role as they are more likely to be surrounded by blues. In terms of usability, Cal scout would need to have some exceptional range for it really useful. It would likely need a scan range bonus skill. CCP Remnant wrote: a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need This....do it once, or add the skills you want to implement and then we KNOW what we are getting. CCP Remnant wrote: The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Melee is under performing compared to NKs, I just don't see ANY winmitar scouts using melee over NKs. Even as a "finisher" its just not practical. You are better of switching to sidearm or reloading than trying to close the distance to melee. CCP Remnant wrote: For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. This is an excellent idea and I look forward to this change. CCP Remnant wrote: I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) I really hope you have looked into logis being able to fit cloak with the 25% reduction in equipment bonus. Especially since they already have such enormous CPU/PG. On minmitar with second EQ slot, remove light weapon slot and give us two sidearm slots? PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1838	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:08:00 - [178] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. I'll take it! Same here. With the 25% bonus and a Mybo, I can hit 265 Melee with a single mod. Run CR/Flaylock with Melee. I'd be happy Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4297	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:08:00 - [179] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant 1. Was it ever confirmed it would be Light? 2. Is it in the game yet? 3. Is it confirmed to be coming in 1.8? Thought is was assumed to be light given the brief time the skills and stuff showed up in the game. When it comes who knows. I wouldnt mind the pilot suit being the only one able to access hav / ds but I'm sure some will be up in arms about that. It was assumed based on concept art of a non-Gallente suit that looked like a Light Frame and showed up with no label confirming it was a Pilot suit. Stats on the early model people saw were low enough to be comparable with Scouts at the time, but still high enough that it could have been a low-durability Medium suit just as easily. There's no actual evidence I'm aware of to support that assumption, and there's definitely no official confirmation. And I'd support a Pilot suit being required to drive a tank or pilot a Dropship (probably also for MAVs and MTACs when they show up), but I don't think it should be a requirement for gunners or passengers.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 912	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:09:00 - [180] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant 1. Was it ever confirmed it would be Light? 2. Is it in the game yet? 3. Is it confirmed to be coming in 1.8? 1. Yes it's skills were dropped by accident at the beginning of uprising, as a light frame 2. See "1.". 3. What does that have to do with anything. {:)}{3GÇó> Please help me save the Gal scout!: linky

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 125	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:11:00 - [181] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I would rather the cloak bonus... BUT this being said, Can you make a equipment that scrambles the ADS so a player can't tell who is blue or red? Should make for some interesting PC battles. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 494	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:11:00 - [182] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. I'll take it! Same here. With the 25% bonus and a Mybo, I can hit 265 Melee with a single mod. Run CR/Flaylock with Melee. I'd be happy Yes but myos are low slots. That means slower, less stamina with higher profile. In what situation is that >using NKs? Please attempt this in the current build and see how frequently you actually utilize it. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 815	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:12:00 - [183] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Caldari run's ECM? ECM is a touchy subject for some ;)
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1198	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:16:00 - [184] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable If I understand this correctly, this is Inherently a buff to those surrounding the scout? While I understand the need to make scouts more useful in battle, this would only be useful to other non-scouts. I just sometimes get frustrated when scouts are thrown into the role of "supporting" other frames. Especially when other frames cant always keep up. Scouts are 9 times out of 10 better off running solo than in a group of medium frames. Mostly due to different attack angles and scan profiles. I feel Ewar in this iteration is better suited to a logistics role as they are more likely to be surrounded by blues. In terms of usability, Cal scout would need to have some exceptional range for it really useful. It would likely need a scan range bonus skill. This is still a useful bonus to a cal scout. This is essentially a bonus to the cal scout's precision that also happens to be helpful to the rest of the team. I hope it is more than 5% per level though (but I doubt they would be that generous). Logis should be for buffs, scouts should be for debuffs. Rather, just bump base scan range to 20 or 25. This helps all scouts and allows the cal to make a decent passive scanner fit. Edit: Myos are high slots. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4299	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:17:00 - [185] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant 1. Was it ever confirmed it would be Light? 2. Is it in the game yet? 3. Is it confirmed to be coming in 1.8? 1. Yes it's skills were dropped by accident at the beginning of uprising, as a light frame 2. See "1.". 3. What does that have to do with anything. 1. I appear to have missed that. The only info I've seen came without a specified frame size, and people assumed it was Light because it had less EHP than the basic Medium Frame. 2. That would be "no" then. 3. It's actually the main point. There's no indication that the Pilot Suit will exist in-game as of 1.8, which is when the cloak and other items are supposed to be showing up. That means there will still, at that time, be a lack of Light Frame variants compared with the other suit types, so it's reasonable to suggest the addition of a secondary suit type at this point. Command suits are meant to be a future development, and it would make the most sense for them to be Medium Frame suits, and I'm sure CCP can come up with another Heavy Frame idea to round everything out by the time the Pilot suit is ready.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4300	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:20:00 - [186] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable If I understand this correctly, this is Inherently a buff to those surrounding the scout? While I understand the need to make scouts more useful in battle, this would only be useful to other non-scouts. I just sometimes get frustrated when scouts are thrown into the role of "supporting" other frames. Especially when other frames cant always keep up. Scouts are 9 times out of 10 better off running solo than in a group of medium frames. Mostly due to different attack angles and scan profiles. I feel Ewar in this iteration is better suited to a logistics role as they are more likely to be surrounded by blues. In terms of usability, Cal scout would need to have some exceptional range for it really useful. It would likely need a scan range bonus skill. This is still a useful bonus to a cal scout. This is essentially a bonus to the cal scout's precision that also happens to be helpful to the rest of the team. I hope it is more than 5% per level though (but I doubt they would be that generous). Logis should be for buffs, scouts should be for debuffs. Rather, just bump base scan range to 20 or 25. This helps all scouts and allows the cal to make a decent passive scanner fit. Edit: Myos are high slots. You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1198	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:21:00 - [187] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD. Whoops, your right. For some reason I thought it affected their profile. Hmm.... that actually isn't very useful. Few people rely on scan precision. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 912	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:28:00 - [188] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: @Garrett I thought the Pilot suit was to be the 2nd Light frame variant 1. Was it ever confirmed it would be Light? 2. Is it in the game yet? 3. Is it confirmed to be coming in 1.8? 1. Yes it's skills were dropped by accident at the beginning of uprising, as a light frame 2. See "1.". 3. What does that have to do with anything. 1. I appear to have missed that. The only info I've seen came without a specified frame size, and people assumed it was Light because it had less EHP than the basic Medium Frame. 2. That would be "no" then. 3. It's actually the main point. There's no indication that the Pilot Suit will exist in-game as of 1.8, which is when the cloak and other items are supposed to be showing up. That means there will still, at that time, be a lack of Light Frame variants compared with the other suit types, so it's reasonable to suggest the addition of a secondary suit type at this point. Command suits are meant to be a future development, and it would make the most sense for them to be Medium Frame suits, and I'm sure CCP can come up with another Heavy Frame idea to round everything out by the time the Pilot suit is ready. Like I said, I don't feel that this is something that warrants and SP sink. Hell, I don't even think that an extra Eq slot for scouts even warrants the removal of the sidearm (scouts are already underprivileged as it is, and with the new assault/heavy bonuses that are coming this is just going to get worse). If type-IIs are added they should be ISK/market variants nothing more. {:)}{3GÇó> Please help me save the Gal scout!: linky
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 106	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:40:00 - [189] - Quote What would Scouts think of this? Basically, make Scouts like EVE CovOps ships, and make 2 or 3 distinct versions of the Cloak; one with severe penalties able to be fit to any suit, and the other with very few or no penalties but only able to be fit on Scouts.
Oswald Rehnquist 1083	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:45:00 - [190] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I would rather the cloak bonus... BUT this being said, Can you make a equipment that scrambles the ADS so a player can't tell who is blue or red? Should make for some interesting PC battles. this is what jammer should do Below 28 dB

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 494	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:46:00 - [191] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Yes but myos are low slots. That means slower, less stamina with higher profile. In what situation is that >using NKs? Please attempt this in the current build and see how frequently you actually utilize it. Myos are high slots. Sorry, I haven't used myos since closed beta. Shows you how useful they really are. Biotics are low slots, so assumption made. Point still stands, please give me an example where playing fisticuff is >NKs. NKs charge, dont use stamina and do 2x as much damage. Minmitar scouts build for a specific purpose. Using a myo along with a rifle along with a sidearm will make it so you almost never are in the situation where you utilize your melee attacks. Staking all myos with RED and GREEN pills in the lows ends up you you have less than 200hp. Its just not practical to utilize melee based attacks. Garrett Blacknova wrote: You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD. I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1199	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:49:00 - [192] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD. I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. That was in response to me. I originally misread Remnant's post and thought cal scout was getting a bonus that increases enemy scan profile instead of precision. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4301	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:49:00 - [193] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. When you're fighting Scout vs. Scout, and only one of you can see the other coming, who has the advantage?
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1199	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:50:00 - [194] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. When you're fighting Scout vs. Scout, and only one of you can see the other coming, who has the advantage? Unless both scouts are stacking precision enhancers, neither scout is going to see each other either anyway. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 129	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:52:00 - [195] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD. I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. What are you talking about? Are you that dense? It's a reverse profile dampening bonus that happens to be AoE it's very useful.
Oswald Rehnquist 1084	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:53:00 - [196] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Whoops, your right. For some reason I thought it affected their profile. Hmm.... that actually isn't very useful. Few people rely on scan precision. Edit: Unless it affected scanners as well, but even then, that's not a bonus that is helpful to my scout. Would be a much more useful bonus if it increase enemy scan profile as I originally thought it did. It would be a temporary skill, and as you know I'm cal scout all the way to the point of not having spent any sp in any other suits. Having this in addition to another skill would be nice, a precision increasing skill plus this could work. Below 28 dB
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4301	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:56:00 - [197] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. When you're fighting Scout vs. Scout, and only one of you can see the other coming, who has the advantage? Unless both scouts are stacking precision enhancers, neither scout is going to see each other either anyway. Or neither Scout has more than one non-Complex Profile Dampener and both have a decent amount of SP invested into Precision Enhancement.
Oswald Rehnquist 1084	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:57:00 - [198] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD. I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. What are you talking about? Are you that dense? It's a reverse profile dampening bonus that happens to be AoE it's very useful. its a reverse profile dampening bonus that doesn't prevent active scanners. Also most scouts ignore their precision skill because precision mods are already weaker than damp mods, so most scout v scout is just LoS. Also the only utility this would have would be to get a group of dampened mediums closer to scouts (assuming scouts don't have active scanners) Below 28 dB
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 494	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:59:00 - [199] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: You seem to both be misunderstanding what an INCREASE in someone's Scan Precision means. Higher Scan Precision means LESS ability to detect targets. It's a NERF to enemies. It makes enemies near your suit less likely to see you OR anyone else on your team lighting up on their minimap/HUD. I know exactly what lowering the precision of the enemy means. How is that at all useful to the scout, that already is not at all worried about their profile. Its a buff to nonscouts....which is exactly my point. A buff to a bunch of blues that you are never around anyway. What are you talking about? Are you that dense? It's a reverse profile dampening bonus that happens to be AoE it's very useful. Who is it useful for? Please explain to me a situation in which it is useful otherwise your retort is just conjecture. Active scanners light up every corner of the map in all competitive matches. How often is passive radar even used? Let me give you an example: Level 5 cal scout would have a 25% bonus to enemies profile in a 16m range around him. That means every suit below a profile of 57 would not be seen on passive scans of enemies within their own 10m range. 10 meters..... And its all nullified by an adv piece of equipment that puts players on your tac net for a full 16 seconds. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
pseudosnipre 509	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:03:00 - [200] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: help me decide what the caldari scout racial bonus should be Damage bonus at 80+m (sniper, rail), minmatar could be damage bonus <8m (nk, shotgun). Just spitballing here... Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.

Brynjar Reko Providence Guard Templis CALSF 41	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:13:00 - [201] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: shaman oga wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Why not both? Type A and type B, like in chromo Two types of specialist Light Frame suit - just like Medium and Heavy suits get. Medium has Assault and Logi, Heavy has Sentinel and Commando, and I propose that we should get Scouts and Infiltrators for Light Frames. Scouts qould have 1 Equipment slot, slots for Light Weapon and Sidearm, and a bonus reduction to Scan Precision on Active Scanners (the Precision stat on the Scanners would need to be increased so this ends up as a nerf to scanning Logis instead of making Proto Scanners literally unbeatable). Infiltrator suits with 2 Equipment slots, no Sidearm, and the planned cloak fitting bonus. ALL Light Frame suits - including the basic frames - should get the reduced shimmer effect while cloaked. This way, an Infiltrator suit will be the ideal cloak platform, but a Scout will still use the cloak better than an Assault or Logi could, and players still training up for the Infiltrator suit would see some benefit from using the suit they're starting to invest in to unlock their intended role. If they went for this you should switch the names. An infiltrator only needs cloak and would benefit from two weapons. A scout doesn't need the firepower but the utility of two eq slots. I'd be fine with scouts just having two suit types to choose from, standard and type II. Although I'm one of the people that would be fine with losing sidearm for eq if we've got to choose only one, but I can see your problems in deciding whether Minnie scouts should be an outlier and keep sidearms or what; maybe a Minmatar scout with two sidearms and two eq while other scouts get one primary and two eq? Minmatar do seem fond of their sidearms, and smg+knives sounds like a better proposal than using your primary for knives, though this probably alienates some other group of min scouts.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 626	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:27:00 - [202] - Quote Why do we have to give up a sidearm? Unless the medium frames are going to lose slots this should be our line in the sand. The next question following is there enough WP opportunities for these new scouts? #my2c In your blind spot
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8020	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:35:00 - [203] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. With he removal of sidearms on scouts, I would like to propose this new specialization (original thread): Name: Assassin Frame: light Slots/stats: No light weapon slot 3 sidearm slots Otherwise same as a basic light Role bonus: 2% sidearm damage per level Racial bonuses: Amarr: 5% reduction reduction in PG/CPU of Amarr racial knife + laser sidearms (scrambler pistol) per level. Gallente: 5% reduction reduction in PG/CPU of Gallente racial knife + hybrid-baster sidearms (ion pistol) per level. Caldari: 5% reduction reduction in PG/CPU of nova knives + hybrid-railgun sidearms (bolt pistol & magsec SMG) per level. Minmatar: 5% reduction reduction in PG/CPU of Minmatar racial knife + projectile & explosive sidearms (flaylock pistol & SMG) per level. It may seem like the Caldari and Minmatar will be benefit the most out of the racial bonuses since they each have (or soon will have) an SMG in addition to their pistols and knives, but I'm willing to bet that the Amarr and Gallente will eventually get their own SMG for racial symmetry The reasoning behind this is that the Minmatar scout should not have a bonus to a Caldari knife since it doesn't make sense to have a bonus to a nother race's weapon, and even if it did have a bonus to its own race's weapon, it wouldn't fit a scout to have such narrow and combat-oriented bonuses; this is why I am proposing this combat oriented light specialization instead. Also each race will have their own knives and pistols (shown at Fanfest 2013), and I don't want scouts to get bonuses to weapons since it would just encourage them into a narrow combat path instead of stealth, etc. This is meant to be a sidearm/knife suit. This dropsuit specialization would be perfect for a ninja-knifer, or any sidearm specialist. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1202	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:39:00 - [204] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Name: Assassin I think this would be best placed as a T3 suit. It could get the bonuses of the scout as well as the lower base scan profile (what use is an easy to discover assassin?) and have better base speed but have lower number of H/L Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4302	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:45:00 - [205] - Quote Brynjar Reko wrote: If they went for this you should switch the names. An infiltrator only needs cloak and would benefit from two weapons. A scout doesn't need the firepower but the utility of two eq slots. I'd be fine with scouts just having two suit types to choose from, standard and type II. Although I'm one of the people that would be fine with losing sidearm for eq if we've got to choose only one, but I can see your problems in deciding whether Minnie scouts should be an outlier and keep sidearms or what; maybe a Minmatar scout with two sidearms and two eq while other scouts get one primary and two eq? Minmatar do seem fond of their sidearms, and smg+knives sounds like a better proposal than using your primary for knives, though this probably alienates some other group of min scouts. If you're building a suit almost entirely around cloaking, it NEEDS to have the Cloak filling one equipment slot, which pretty much requires a second slot to be available for something else if you want any tactical versatility. The proposal from CCP is to have a second equipment slot on a suit with a bonus to cloaking, but at the cost of a Sidearm. I'm suggesting that they ADD that as a new suit, rather than replacing the current option with it.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F 4432	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:47:00 - [206] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. Thats 150 at level 5, which is still pretty pathetic unless you're stacking Myofiborals. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 266	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:49:00 - [207] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Citpaan Hacos wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I'd say that's a point in a case to add EWar info to the HUD. Instant thoughts are maybe some small numbers around the map radar for Profile, Precision, and maybe Range. Perhaps have them change color (and/or blink) if the value changes from what you had when you spawned. Or perhaps an optional / toggleable element that's more substantial, though I'm sure that's quite a bit more work. You'll probably need some kind of similar way to deliver info for command suit bonuses to recipients as well, wont you? Definitely. UI feedback is something that's being addressed, but as someone primarily responsible for balance and working with what we have now it comes down to a) do we leave this role cough Scout cough languishing until we get the features we need b) do we band-aid it with a temporary adjustment that is better but not ultimately what's desired (and have players demanding respecs later ) or c) do we just do nothing until all the supporting features are in place to do it properly? In an ideal world, C would be the way to go, but game development is almost never ideal. I say UI can come later, if the scouts are left to rot on the vine for to long the general unwillingness to use them will make them even more under used than people who just get frustrated because they cant tell if their bonus is working. The player base is smart enough to know a good bonus and exploit it even if the UI isent holdign their hand.
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 240	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:00:00 - [208] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: knight guard fury wrote: help me decide what the caldari scout racial bonus should be Damage bonus at 80+m (sniper, rail), minmatar could be damage bonus <8m (nk, shotgun). Just spitballing here... +5% per lvl to sniper rifle range & lod rendering -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1970	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:08:00 - [209] - Quote What if sidearms were replaced by knife slots? And knives were reclassified into their own class instead of being a sidearm.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 267	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:15:00 - [210] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Crazy Idea, why not just make a scout variation like you did with the heavy frame? the camando is a very specialty variant of the heavy suit. So for scouts why not make a "hunter scout" with more offensive or hunter bonuses like knives and scan percision but keeps its sidearm, then make a "pathfinder" scout that gets like a bonus to hacking and has 2 equipment

Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 627	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:16:00 - [211] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What if sidearms were replaced by knife slots? And knives were reclassified into their own class instead of being a sidearm. So the guys that like using Pistols/SMG's would still be screwed??? #NoScraps!!! In your blind spot
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 267	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:26:00 - [212] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What if sidearms were replaced by knife slots? And knives were reclassified into their own class instead of being a sidearm. I think all mercs should have a knife slot, what self respecting soilder would not have a knife on them. Could make a weker knife that takes almost no fitting and give like 5% melle damage buff when used to encorage its use, but leave it open to be replaced with knova knifes for real dedicated knife users
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 283	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:04:00 - [213] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Please do NOT take away the sidearm! You'll never see NK on a scout again (unless it's for laughs). And the SG fit will be pretty frustrating, especially when someone starts back peddling and you can't do anything about it. I'm really looking forward to a proto scout with the SG but I think this could ruin it. Personally i'd rather have the sidearm then an extra equipment slot. Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 381	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:30:00 - [214] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I would like this if it also affected hostile active scanners. Scan profile reduction also protects from active scanners, so scanning disruption should do so too. By the way, there is no message that indicates that you've been passively scanned, yet some skinny dude keeps shooting you in the back of the head wherever you go. This is also rather confusing to new players. Not being able to scan medium suits with your advanced scanner at certain times definitely isn't more difficult to understand than learning why you're getting blown up by REs from someone standing 60 meters away. Just like with passive scanning the fact that they don't get an on-screen message is half the benefit. Also: Remember to make an active variant that works as an anti-scanner for the Caldari Logibros to equip. P.S.: I haven't used a side-arm on my Gallente Scout ever since I skilled into it. It just doesn't make sense.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1204	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:36:00 - [215] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Also: Remember to make an active variant that works as an anti-scanner for the Caldari Logibros to equip. Tacnet/IFF Jammers are something that should be implemented but that should not be for the logis. They can use it, but like the cloak it should be meant for the scout (along with webifiers and any other E-War thing ccp dreams up). Logis can have the rest of the equipment, but E-War proficiency should belong to scouts. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1577	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:51:00 - [216] - Quote Three thoughts: 1) Min scout without a sidearm wouldn't make any sense, the knife bonus would be wasted. 2) I really really like the idea of having 2 light frame variants for each race, the current scout and the type 2 with no sidearm and 2 EQ. That would be a great addition. More diversity >> less. 3) If for some reason CCP doesn't want to have 2 light frame variants for everyone then perhaps they should split the races: 2 races get "regular" scouts with a sidearm and 1 EQ, and 2 races get the type 2 scout. I'd vote for adding the 2 new scouts as type 2's and keep the sidearms on the existing scouts to be consistent. (That could even be done as a trial and CCP can see how often each type of scout gets used and how successful they are. If the demand is there, perhaps they will then go forward with both types for all 4 races.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior level 1
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6414	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:02:00 - [217] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. That would seem ok for the Caldari Scout to have a bonus to passive precision scanning as long as it doesn't power creep into the Gallente Scout's role as a long-range passive range scanner. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 283	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:02:00 - [218] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Three thoughts: 1) Min scout without a sidearm wouldn't make any sense, the knife bonus would be wasted. 2) I really really like the idea of having 2 light frame variants for each race, the current scout and the type 2 with no sidearm and 2 EQ. That would be a great addition. More diversity >> less. 3) If for some reason CCP doesn't want to have 2 light frame variants for everyone then perhaps they should split the races: 2 races get "regular" scouts with a sidearm and 1 EQ, and 2 races get the type 2 scout. I'd vote for adding the 2 new scouts as type 2's and keep the sidearms on the existing scouts to be consistent. (That could even be done as a trial and CCP can see how often each type of scout gets used and how successful they are. If the demand is there, perhaps they will then go forward with both types for all 4 races.) If you have to take the sidearm away on some (which is really wrong IMO) leave the Gallente his sidearm! Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 719	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:05:00 - [219] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. I am sad. No sidearm slot, means I will probably never run knives again. I've hitherto enjoyed having them as a sidearm, but I'd have to be insane to run knife-only. Cloak will make stealth knifing ONE target possible.. (MAYBE. depends how bad the shimmer is).. but the cooldown time is going to make exfiltration a nightmare. Being able to switch to a sidearm made things more livable. Unless cooldown for scouts, is made very very short. Which, IMO, would be appropriate. If you actually like seeing people using knives... how about an additional, knife-only slot? Either as a replacement for the scout sidearm slot, or as someone suggested, an all-suit knife-only configuration? (but please dont make it a substitute for melee.. . mashing in R3 stick=bad bad bad)
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 228	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:10:00 - [220] - Quote i think we are pushing things to much for a single suit, my gameplay is assassinations and fast firing weapons with invisibility, to other people it maybe hacking or something else, and all of us (myself included) are trying to put all of our play styles in 1 suit, i love to kill quietly but i HATE nk, i know that so far every suit has 3 variants, and light has 2, maybe the light frame should be transformed into an all-round suit, while we get our specialized suits, the thing i really want CCP is to assassinate people with a decent light suit that i can customize for killing AND 360 degrees passive scanning, only scouts should be able to sneak up to scouts, and a wild idea: ferroscales now lower your scanning profile plus the armor, 10% basic lvl 15%advanced 20% proto? think about it Dragons don't have friends. The nearest we can get to the idea is an enemy who is still alive.

Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 18	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:12:00 - [221] - Quote I would rather not have the cal scout locked into using sniper rifles or cloaks for that matter. I would prefer that scouts got fitting reduction bonuses for biotics/profile modules and kept their sidearm. I still feel that the best choice for cloaks is to make it scout only equipment so scouts will get decent passive bonuses and won't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment.
Orin the Freak The Solecism of Limitation 678	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:21:00 - [222] - Quote Scout suit inherent bonus should be either a hacking speed buff, similar to that which the minmatar logi appears to be losing sob Or perhaps a reduction in CPU/PG usage of grenades/remote explosives per level. Furthermore, no scout suit racial bonus should be based on cloaking either. I always saw scout suits as the frigate of DUST. Cheap, expendable, quick, niggling, hard to pin down suits. you can put a cloak on them, but it gimps them more than anything. You only put a cloak on a rifter to be a spy. That said, in EVE there are Black-Ops frigates, which have bonuses for cloaks. Make a "Black-Ops" variant of the scout suit, with all the cloaking-related bonuses. Also, give the minmatar racial scout a better bonus. Melee damage buff is just... dumb. Such a small amount of players use melee/nova knives. truthfully, since minmatar is all about projectiles and 'splosions, shouldn't their bonus have something to do with explosive damage? (MD, RE's, grenades, etc)?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4313	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:26:00 - [223] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: With respect, you're comparing Apples and Oranges that have "Apple" stickers on them. Fixed that for you.
pseudosnipre 510	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:38:00 - [224] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Also: Remember to make an active variant that works as an anti-scanner for the Caldari Logibros to equip. Tacnet/IFF Jammers are something that should be implemented but that should not be for the logis. They can use it, but like the cloak it should be meant for the scout (along with webifiers and any other E-War thing ccp dreams up). Logis can have the rest of the equipment, but E-War proficiency should belong to scouts. THANK YOU! Why precision AoE "jamming" is pffffbbbttt. Red's ability to see enemies on tacnet within his 10m range is hindered...OH NO! Except for red scouts who now cant see your team UNLESS someone in their squad has an active scanner which NEVER happens. SO, this suit is good at slowly escorting teammates behind enemy lines UNLESS they get LOS'd. The best part? No WP for babysitting SLOW suits! Plus you WILL eat an orbital from an FC with his map zoomed in... Here's some AoE EWAR ideas from out of my ass: -IFF blocking: all reds and blues appear gray. Even better, no names either! -IFF hacking: all red's teammates now appear as hostiles too! How funny would that be in FW? -IFF spoofing: red now sees your team as blueberries. -Target lock: selected red's unique id/GPS coords uploaded to team tacnet. Good luck hiding. With how desperately everyone clings to tacnet data and red/blue instead of situational awareness, the sky is the limit for ewar. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
pseudosnipre 510	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:39:00 - [225] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Scout Registry wrote: With respect, you're comparing Apples and Oranges that have "Crapple" stickers on them. Fixed that for you. ditto Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Omareth Nasadra The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 257	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:41:00 - [226] - Quote so much win in this thread, tx remnant for taking the time to reply to the community Minmatar, In rust we trust!!! Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 283	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:41:00 - [227] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: I would rather not have the cal scout locked into using sniper rifles or cloaks for that matter. I would prefer that scouts got fitting reduction bonuses for biotics/profile modules and kept their sidearm. I still feel that the best choice for cloaks is to make it scout only equipment so scouts will get decent passive bonuses and won't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment. I agree. I don't really love the role bonus pointing to a set piece of equipment and removing the sidearm will really mess up a lot of scout weapon fitting options. Specifically some sidearms you won't see on other fits and the SG as a primary becomes a death sentence in many situations (more so then currently). Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1628	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:44:00 - [228] - Quote No to mn changes but yes to everythkng else +5% move/sprint speed +5% DMG to knova knives Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 599	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:56:00 - [229] - Quote I have no problem with removing sidearm slots to get a second equipment. Here's why. With the cloak as a pretty much "must" on the scout that removes a lot of pressure to have a secondary weapon that could "handle" ranged encounters (ie SMG/ScrPistol) as an alternative to a close range weapon (shotgun/NK) in case we got caught out in the open. I'm assuming that the cloak is a viable method of moving across open territory etc... with a timer that is long enough to make it worthwhile. I rarely if ever run with a sidearm anyways, preferring to use my fitting for additional modules or higher tier modules. Personally, I think that the extra versatility you get from a second equipment (especially in placing covert uplinks, so forth) is worth so much more than a "hold-out" weapon. Besides this also means that (with the buff to scout profile to 35 dB) you can forgo the cloak in some occasions to get maybe a RE and nanohive or multiple prox mine fits. So many options are opened up with 2 equipment slots. I do agree that some of the racials should keep their sidearm and 1 equipment slots. I disagree with the idea of having multiple configs of dropsuits within one race. There should be a cost to having the increased variety (that cost would be SP investment for a different racial suit). My two biggest concerns over the proposed update have just been allayed. Other items are still concerning but less difficult to adapt to.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 283	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:10:00 - [230] - Quote Driftward wrote: I have no problem with removing sidearm slots to get a second equipment. Here's why. With the cloak as a pretty much "must" on the scout that removes a lot of pressure to have a secondary weapon that could "handle" ranged encounters (ie SMG/ScrPistol) as an alternative to a close range weapon (shotgun/NK) in case we got caught out in the open. I'm assuming that the cloak is a viable method of moving across open territory etc... with a timer that is long enough to make it worthwhile. I rarely if ever run with a sidearm anyways, preferring to use my fitting for additional modules or higher tier modules. Personally, I think that the extra versatility you get from a second equipment (especially in placing covert uplinks, so forth) is worth so much more than a "hold-out" weapon. Besides this also means that (with the buff to scout profile to 35 dB) you can forgo the cloak in some occasions to get maybe a RE and nanohive or multiple prox mine fits. So many options are opened up with 2 equipment slots. I do agree that some of the racials should keep their sidearm and 1 equipment slots. I disagree with the idea of having multiple configs of dropsuits within one race. There should be a cost to having the increased variety (that cost would be SP investment for a different racial suit). My two biggest concerns over the proposed update have just been allayed. Other items are still concerning but less difficult to adapt to. Edit: Also as to the caldari scout bonus. I'd much prefer a AOE profile decrease for friendlies. That would be a balance to the active scanners as well as passive scanning (which others have mentioned isn't used heavily enough to make enough of an impact to justify a racial suit that only effects that). Otherwise if you're set on precision effects, then there has to be some method to also effect active scanning precisions. Alternatively, I really like the UI effect of graying out / white noise on the Tacnet. That's a great visual and also very disturbing to the people it effects. It combines some psy-ops elements as well as eWAR. (make the skill increase radius by 5 m each level from a base of 10 out to perhaps 30 m at max skill) It could also depend on dropsuit precision to determine who it effects. So the Caldari (who would focus on high slots) have a reason to use a mix of precision enhancers as well as shield extenders. With that idea in mind, an additional bonus of 2-3% precision enhancement per level might also be justified. And one of the main problems is you are saying the cloak is a must. So we live and die by how well they do the cloak? That is something I personally do not want to bet on. Also, i think most would agree the Scout is UP so why does it become one or the other? Being forced to use one piece of equipment is bad design IMO. Please fix the mic bubble bug...

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 30	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:11:00 - [231] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. My first post ever on the forums and i get a dev response? You guys are awesome haha And also that sounds even better than my sniper bonus idea. Also, what were your personal opinions on the other ideas I had for alternate scout bonuses? I proposed these ideas to enhance the individual niches of the seperate racial suits. Just to reitierate, Ill repost my ideas (with a few edits).. a universal buff should be given to the scout loadout by increasing equipment slots by 1, and reducing base porfile to 40db Role bonus:5% reduction to scan profile per level (maybe put the current cpu/pg bonus in here as well, instead of my original idea of having it be an inherent trait of light suits, preventing it from being spammed) The ideas i had for skills are as follows- Caldari: 5% to enemy scan precision/active scanner scan precision per level, keeps the current cloaking bonus Gallente: 5% bonus to scan precision, 10% bonus to scan range Minmitar: 5% assassination bonus to damage dealt to the sides and back of the target, 3% to movement speed and sprint speed Amarr: 10% to max stamina, and stamina regeneration, keeps current cloaking bonus I love the feedback, and appreciate it a ton guys! Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 19	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:15:00 - [232] - Quote Driftward wrote: I have no problem with removing sidearm slots to get a second equipment. Here's why. With the cloak as a pretty much "must" on the scout that removes a lot of pressure to have a secondary weapon that could "handle" ranged encounters (ie SMG/ScrPistol) as an alternative to a close range weapon (shotgun/NK) in case we got caught out in the open. I'm assuming that the cloak is a viable method of moving across open territory etc... with a timer that is long enough to make it worthwhile. I rarely if ever run with a sidearm anyways, preferring to use my fitting for additional modules or higher tier modules. Personally, I think that the extra versatility you get from a second equipment (especially in placing covert uplinks, so forth) is worth so much more than a "hold-out" weapon. Besides this also means that (with the buff to scout profile to 35 dB) you can forgo the cloak in some occasions to get maybe a RE and nanohive or multiple prox mine fits. So many options are opened up with 2 equipment slots. I do agree that some of the racials should keep their sidearm and 1 equipment slots. I disagree with the idea of having multiple configs of dropsuits within one race. There should be a cost to having the increased variety (that cost would be SP investment for a different racial suit). My two biggest concerns over the proposed update have just been allayed. Other items are still concerning but less difficult to adapt to. Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi and your stealth link meant nothing. You're crossing a field and.......scanned by a proto gal logi. They shoot you once and now you can't flee b/c of the stunlock effect. You sneak up on an unsuspecting victim and fire with a shotgun or slash with a nk, they're still alive thanks to the new health buffs and start to jump around like a monkey on crack. They get out of your 5m optimal b/c follow up shots fail to register and now you have to reload.....and you're dead from back pedal hip fire (an smg could have saved your life).
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 30	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:15:00 - [233] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Minmatar scout melee bonus is still less than medium frame melee, even when maxed out; its also weird for it to get a bonus to another race's weapon (nova knives are Caldari). The 5% hacking speed bonus (which seems like its going to be removed from the Minmatar logi) would be perfect on a scout given that they have the speed to quickly and stealthily reach objectives. An alternative would be to have the hacking bonus was the role bonus for all scouts, and the Minmatar scout bonus was to the efficacy of biotic modules (kinkats, stimulants, and myofibrals), 10% per level. The plan was to buff up the Minmatar Scout's base melee damage (right now light frames do 80, medium frames 110 and heavy frames 150) up to 120. That works, though I still think there should be a scout with a hacking bonus. The bonuses from the test servers in general seem pretty good, though the assault ones are pretty bad. The ROF bonus buffs the AR, RR (and maybe the CR), but not the SCR (nerfing it by ommision). On top of that, the removal of the Amarr assault's heat buildup reduction bonus is a much bigger nerf. The ROF bonus would make a SCR disincentivized on an assault suit because the bonus is wasted on it. Instead of HP/rep bonuses, assaults should have bonuses that enhance their race's weaponry. You guys had the right idea with the heat bonus. Amarr: 5% heat buildup per level of laser weapons per. Minmatar: 5% magazine size per level of projectiles and explosives per level. Gallente: 5% reload speed of hybrid-blaster weapons per level. Caldari: something... As for the role bonus, the 4 racial rifles should receive a 10% damage nerf, but the role bonus should give a 2% light weapon damage increase per level, so they will be as strong as they currently are to a maxed out assault, and ensure assaults are better slayers than logis without making the weapons overpowered and hurting TTK. Also back on scuts, I love the Caldari scout idea of increasing the enemy's precision (so counter-intuitive in regular language though that more precision means less effective at sensing). Yeah, TTK is definitely something we're looking at improving. The reason we've not hot-fixed a blanket 10% nerf is simply because of the knock -on effects it has (e.g. reducing the damage output of an ammo guzzler like the ACR means it gets a bigger nerf than simply reduced DPS; though some might argue that's not a bad thing). For 1.8 you should see re-adjustment of damage mods, a reduction to weapon damage and possibly alteration of the weapon proficiency skills to only buff damage against shield or armor (in keeping with that weapon's profile) instead of a blanket 3% per level to both shields and armor. Oooh, a reduction to damage. That sounds really nice... so long as you don't decrease the damage on Sniper Rifle, shotgun, or nova knives, all of which are under-performing . And it is really nice to see a Dev comment on this thread, however CCP Remnent are you aware that there is a 348+ page long thread by scouts and about scouts that exists on general discussion? Because coming in and talking on a thread by someone that has not been around very long nor no know place in the scout community really does not help balance or get the opinions of the majority of the players that use the Scout suit. I might be realtively new to this gmae/community, but do you still agree with my basic logic with all the improvements to the scout suit? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 30	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:18:00 - [234] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: I would rather not have the cal scout locked into using sniper rifles or cloaks for that matter. I would prefer that scouts got fitting reduction bonuses for biotics/profile modules and kept their sidearm. I still feel that the best choice for cloaks is to make it scout only equipment so scouts will get decent passive bonuses and won't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment. I agree. Now that I think about it, its very similar to the minimitar scout knife bonus, which didnt allow for a lot of versatility, and was part of the reason why the Gallente scout suit was better in almost every single way than the minimitar suit, something that i dont want to see reoccur. Thanks for the input! Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 32	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:23:00 - [235] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Are you saying that scouts will be losing a sidearm slot, or will you be introducing a separate variant of light suit that lacks a sidearm slot? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 32	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:34:00 - [236] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Remnant: Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. On Minmatar: Thank goodness you've recognized the potential problem here. Please don't take away the Minmatar's knives. Please reconsider taking away the sidearms of others. o7 Edit: If Cloak is potentially overpowered, then I can understand CCP needing to nerf Scouts to coincide with its release. Even so, it'll be a sad day when Scouts migrate further towards Rifles, which will likely occur if sidearms are removed. I've been running RR and NKs lately in preparation for upcoming event. Given the opportunity, I'll always stalk and kill a merc with knives rather than plugging him in the back of the head from safe distance. Style, excitement, challenge, fun ... killing with a knife is a quality experience. A quality experience I'll certainly miss as a Gallente Scout without a sidearm slot :-( There's something special about killing with Nova Knives. You could -- in theory -- outfit all Scouts with Nova Knives. We are, after all, a 'bit like Special Forces :-) I had a great idea for a solution to the knive problem/ lack of versatility that this bonus entails. I suggested an "assassination" bonus (i.e. 5% bonus to damage dealt from behind). This of course would probably only apply in distances<15 meters so that we dont have minjas running around wiht ars, 2 shotting everyone in the back. But, in my opinion, this would be not only keeping contiguous with the minimitars role as an assassin, but keeps the damage to nova knives and also offers increased versatility in minmatar builds. As a nova knife user, I get 99% of my kills from behind, and the only one from the front are on proto galogis that can survive a single slash. This would, in my opinion, be a great step towards putting the minimitar scout on the same level as a gallente scout, and increase the size of its niche :) Thanks for the feedback Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Protected Void Endless Hatred 230	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:22:00 - [237] - Quote Losing the sidearm slot gets an absolute no from me - if it's the only alternative available. If we get two variants of the suits, where we can choose from one variant with sidearm and one equipment slot, and another one without sidearm and with two equipment slots, then sure. That would be great. However, being forced to not have a sidearm no matter what is just terrible. It would ensure most scouts - including me - will never want to run with Nova Knives or Scrambler Pistols again. Shotguns also become a fishy proposition. I personally would have to either run SMGs all the time - boring - or give up my prof. 4 Scrambler rifle. The overheat and cooldown mechanic is just about tolerable on a scout suit when I can switch to a sidearm once I get near overheat. Being all out of options for seconds at a time while waiting for the ScR to cool down is just out of the question.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2152	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:39:00 - [238] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. We need one Scout suit to keep its sidearm. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 721	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:48:00 - [239] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: ... Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi and your stealth link meant nothing. You're crossing a field and.......scanned by a proto gal logi. Actually, it wont be that dificult for a scout to avoid scans, still. If they stick to the proposed 35dB default profile, then it only takes damping level3, and 2xadv damps, to avoid normal proto scanners, even with gallente logi bonus. Your profile wil be 21.74dB, if I did the math right. The focused duvolle will still be a problem of course. But if barely anyone runs them now, most likely barely anyone will run them in the future. I think CCP didnt do too badly with the scaling this time. This part, actually IS a slight buff to scouts, in that it will be more difficult, if not impossible, for medium frames, to get under scans now. but not for scouts. So in that sense, it would be good for scouts to see a bunch of gallente logi scanners in the field.
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 118	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:48:00 - [240] - Quote I can see it now Minnie scouts now with Nova Knife bonus but no sidearm slot to wield them. Some of these bonuses are useful all the time (dampening, scan range amplification) some are very situational ie Nova Knives which requires one to get point blank (which then requires a bunch of skills such as dampening to pull off). =][= OT For role equivalent Light suits are the frigates, scouts are the interceptors and covert ops ships. Basic suits really should get a cost benefit and the skill in the basic should apply to the specialist suits ie 5% hacking per mini light suit skill level applies to both mini light and scout suits. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.

The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1546	Posted - 2014.01.13 22:10:00 - [241] - Quote icdedppul wrote: role bonus should be universal your across all races This is the worst idea currently on the forums. The logi suits already a single generic bonus and it sucks really bad to the point of being game breaking. Very few suits in the game should have the same set of bonuses because we want more diversity not less. The problem is that there is only 5 suits in each race that are different enough to be called different. The difference between s/a/p is crap because they aren't different from each other they are just superior at proto levels. Boring. if there were about five suits per level of each frame size this game would be alright. CCP has painted itself into a corner, what is the next suit going to do or be called. Assualt a/-g12.4? They have to make up a new name for the suit and introduced that skill as well or name it something crazy. CCP add more suits per level in each race and in each frame size. Five suits isn't cutting it. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4318	Posted - 2014.01.13 22:19:00 - [242] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi and your stealth link meant nothing. You're crossing a field and.......scanned by a proto gal logi. They shoot you once and now you can't flee b/c of the stunlock effect. You sneak up on an unsuspecting victim and fire with a shotgun or slash with a nk, they're still alive thanks to the new health buffs and start to jump around like a monkey on crack. They get out of your 5m optimal b/c follow up shots fail to register and now you have to reload.....and you're dead from back pedal hip fire (an smg could have saved your life). Except that being scanned doesn't uncloak you, and as a smart Scout, you're not making yourself an easy target. Also, the "stunlock" effect doesn't stop you from moving at all, just slows you from a full sprint, which you might not need anyway. And that's assuming the Scout in question didn't choose to stack profile dampeners along with our reduced base profile, making us MUCH harder to pick up even with that Proto Scanner of yours. Those "health buffs" you're talking about are actually going to be nerfs to specific weapons to increase TTK - "not a blanket nerf on all weapons" means NOT A BLANKET NERF ON ALL WEAPONS, which means the weapons designed for instant-kill potential should retain that capability. My Shotgun still instant kills most non-Heavy targets like it should, and so do our Knives. You're also assuming poor hit detection that is progressively more rare as the devs work on improving the game. And you're assuming that another player is not only reacting, but reacting perfectly as soon as they take fire from an enemy they didn't see coming, and somehow, in a slower suit, backing up while firing and magically moving faster than the Scout that's chasing them as they try and back up. If you can assume perfect reactions on the victim of a sneak attack, I can assume a perfect reaction from the attacker in response to the backpedalling, meaning that instead of getting out of range, you stay about 2m apart while the Scout is blasting away with an 8-round semi-auto Shotgun that takes at least 80% of its target's health per shot at that range. Pretty sure you're dead four times over before I need to reload, even with a worst-case scenario of half my shots missing you'd die twice. Honestly, with how good many Scouts have already gotten at getting ourselves into position WITHOUT cloaking, frequently even when facing players with Scanners, it's wholly reasonable for Scouts to sneak into position using our current tactics, and only cloak on the way back out, after our attacks have alerted the enemy team to our presence. As for a cloak being "necessary", if we get 2 equipment slots, I'm going to have at least a few Nanohive/Repair Tool fittings. Probably running Shotguns on at least 2 of them.
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 117	Posted - 2014.01.13 22:37:00 - [243] - Quote Please don't take away the sidearm from the Gal Scout... it would make me very sad and probably extremely PO'd, too. I'd rather have the sidearm than gain an equipment slot (for the Gal Scout at least). Top Wants: Explosive Diversity, Installation Skills, Passive Scan Boost, Myofibril Stimulant Boost Grenade Throw Speed
Samuel Zelik D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 119	Posted - 2014.01.13 22:50:00 - [244] - Quote Deleted; accidental post. Top Wants: Explosive Diversity, Installation Skills, Passive Scan Boost, Myofibril Stimulant Boost Grenade Throw Speed
Lucifalic Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 196	Posted - 2014.01.13 22:57:00 - [245] - Quote I just dont understand why taking the sidearm away is ok at any level. Logis dont have one, in exchange they get High health, highest slot counts of all suits, highest cpu/pg of all suits, 3-4 equipment slots and now their equipment will not cost them as much due to their bonus... Scouts lose theirs to get one extra equipment slot that, due to low cpu/pg, is forcing the cloak to take advantage of the terrible bonus they are getting... They get lowest health of all suits, low cpu/pg, low slot count, slightly more speed, slightly better dampening and precision.. There is no way that is an equal trade compared to the logi. Just give us the damn equipment slot... dont take away their sidearm. Remember with the low cpu/pg on the suit its not like we are gonna have all proto equipment, mods and weapons...They will end up with standard or militia weapons to fit higher tier equipment or visa versa... LEAVE THE SIDEARM
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4322	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:02:00 - [246] - Quote Lucifalic wrote: Scouts lose theirs to get one extra equipment slot that, due to low cpu/pg, is forcing the cloak to take advantage of the terrible bonus they are getting... They get lowest health of all suits, low cpu/pg, low slot count, slightly more speed, slightly better dampening and precision.. You're assuming Scout PG and CPU aren't getting an increase when it's been mentioned that they probably are. Also, the Scan Profile (and presumably Precision as well) will be getting a significant reduction (as in buff). Combine those with being the only suit that will be able to fit a Cloak with minimal compromise, and the loss of sidearm doesn't look quite so horrible. The more I think about it, the more I can see validity in the argument that we shouldn't lose our Sidearm slot for it, but at the same time, it doesn't seem too harsh a penalty for the buffs coming our way.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1823	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:05:00 - [247] - Quote I'm throwing my hat in this eq slot ring: 2 sidearms and 2 EQ slots (for minja at least). Would solve a lot of problems. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 68	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:13:00 - [248] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) So what happens to Gallente scouts that use shotguns? I use the breach shotgun, I only get 2 shots a magazine with slow reload even with the skill points invested into rapid reload. If their side arm slot is being taken away wouldn't that limit people that use niche weapons? Are those type of weapons receiving a buff to make up for the lack of a side arm? Level 5 proficiency in throat punching
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 721	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:16:00 - [249] - Quote mollerz wrote: I'm throwing my hat in this eq slot ring: 2 sidearms and 2 EQ slots (for minja at least). Would solve a lot of problems. sure. How about you post that on the main scout thread and see what they say?
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 722	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:20:00 - [250] - Quote Admonishment wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) So what happens to Gallente scouts that use shotguns? I use the breach shotgun, I only get 2 shots a magazine with slow reload even with the skill points invested into rapid reload. If their side arm slot is being taken away wouldn't that limit people that use niche weapons? Are those type of weapons receiving a buff to make up for the lack of a side arm? I guess their thinking is most likely, "if you miss the kill, use your cloak to run away", and that's the buff . In other words, you can have cloak for getting into trouble, or cloak for getting out of trouble, but not both. (because of the cooldown. unless its just crazy short) Now, in my opinion, that sucks.... but its still probably the way they're thinking :-/

Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 29	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:26:00 - [251] - Quote mollerz wrote: I'm throwing my hat in this eq slot ring: 2 sidearms and 2 EQ slots (for minja at least). Would solve a lot of problems. I'd rather not be forced into a two sidearm combo, for me i'm choosing between knife and shotgun, not knife and another sidearm. I really suspect this is the usual case for scouts.
Onesimus Tarsus 790	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:26:00 - [252] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Admonishment wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) So what happens to Gallente scouts that use shotguns? I use the breach shotgun, I only get 2 shots a magazine with slow reload even with the skill points invested into rapid reload. If their side arm slot is being taken away wouldn't that limit people that use niche weapons? Are those type of weapons receiving a buff to make up for the lack of a side arm? I guess their thinking is most likely, "if you miss the kill, use your cloak to run away", and that's the buff . In other words, you can have cloak for getting into trouble, or cloak for getting out of trouble, but not both. (because of the cooldown. unless its just crazy short) Now, in my opinion, that sucks.... but its still probably the way they're thinking :-/ Here's the way they're thinking: Whoa! Scouts are still mildly useful/fun. Let's utterly nullify every single last stinking imaginable chance they have at being useful or fun. Good meeting, guys. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Lucifalic Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 198	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:27:00 - [253] - Quote This is just ridiculous. Im a SG scout and i NEED my sidearm... All it takes is one backpedaling medium outside of lol 5 m and my sg is useless due to its DRAMATIC damage dropoff. I have to switch to my smg or pistol to deal with those situations. The cloak to get close to people?? I can do that already. No trouble. I dont need another piece of equipment forced on me when i dont need it. This ruins my playstyle... Hell i cant even run knives anymore with my cr. SO stop the madness, Throw us a bone i think we have waited long enough and been nerfed enough, give us the extra equipment slot and let us keep our sidearm. IF you cant do that give us the old type 1 and type 2 suits. (and while your at it give us more speed and lose the stamina delay introduced in 1.2) ahhhhhh wishful thinking.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 25	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:39:00 - [254] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: ... Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi and your stealth link meant nothing. You're crossing a field and.......scanned by a proto gal logi. Actually, it wont be that dificult for a scout to avoid scans, still. If they stick to the proposed 35dB default profile, then it only takes damping level3, and 2xadv damps, to avoid normal proto scanners, even with gallente logi bonus. Your profile wil be 21.74dB, if I did the math right. The focused duvolle will still be a problem of course. But if barely anyone runs them now, most likely barely anyone will run them in the future. I think CCP didnt do too badly with the scaling this time. This part, actually IS a slight buff to scouts, in that it will be more difficult, if not impossible, for medium frames, to get under scans now. but not for scouts. So in that sense, it would be good for scouts to see a bunch of gallente logi scanners in the field. So a standard/adv scout suit has to sacrifice its only 2 low slots in order to avoid scanners (have to give up biotics/repair/health). You call that a buff for scouts? You must not run into paranoid proto stompers very much.
Mr m4gic XSKvLLX 49	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:47:00 - [255] - Quote increasing TTK, the simplest answer keep all vehicles as high damage dealers, leaving them at the level they are at now and handheld weapons low damage dealers except for the mini guns obviously, and the nova knives Have you seen my baseball??
mollerz Minja Scouts 1827	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:49:00 - [256] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: mollerz wrote: I'm throwing my hat in this eq slot ring: 2 sidearms and 2 EQ slots (for minja at least). Would solve a lot of problems. I'd rather not be forced into a two sidearm combo, for me i'm choosing between knife and shotgun, not knife and another sidearm. I really suspect this is the usual case for scouts. Sounds like you should be a ginja. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1827	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:50:00 - [257] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: mollerz wrote: I'm throwing my hat in this eq slot ring: 2 sidearms and 2 EQ slots (for minja at least). Would solve a lot of problems. sure. How about you post that on the main scout thread and see what they say? I posted it in the quid pro by scouty or whatshisname. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 30	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:59:00 - [258] - Quote mollerz wrote: Sounds like you should be a ginja. No, duct tape is my fashion statement. Actually since the Min scout is worse in every way than the Gallente except in knife prowess I just don't think forcing a single weapon set would be an improvement even if that's what I'm technically running anyway. Speccing entirely into another suit is a harsh requirement just to get access to a long range weapon.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 25	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:05:00 - [259] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi and your stealth link meant nothing. You're crossing a field and.......scanned by a proto gal logi. They shoot you once and now you can't flee b/c of the stunlock effect. You sneak up on an unsuspecting victim and fire with a shotgun or slash with a nk, they're still alive thanks to the new health buffs and start to jump around like a monkey on crack. They get out of your 5m optimal b/c follow up shots fail to register and now you have to reload.....and you're dead from back pedal hip fire (an smg could have saved your life). Except that being scanned doesn't uncloak you, and as a smart Scout, you're not making yourself an easy target. Also, the "stunlock" effect doesn't stop you from moving at all, just slows you from a full sprint, which you might not need anyway. And that's assuming the Scout in question didn't choose to stack profile dampeners along with our reduced base profile, making us MUCH harder to pick up even with that Proto Scanner of yours. Those "health buffs" you're talking about are actually going to be nerfs to specific weapons to increase TTK - "not a blanket nerf on all weapons" means NOT A BLANKET NERF ON ALL WEAPONS, which means the weapons designed for instant-kill potential should retain that capability. My Shotgun still instant kills most non-Heavy targets like it should, and so do our Knives. You're also assuming poor hit detection that is progressively more rare as the devs work on improving the game. And you're assuming that another player is not only reacting, but reacting perfectly as soon as they take fire from an enemy they didn't see coming, and somehow, in a slower suit, backing up while firing and magically moving faster than the Scout that's chasing them as they try and back up. If you can assume perfect reactions on the victim of a sneak attack, I can assume a perfect reaction from the attacker in response to the backpedalling, meaning that instead of getting out of range, you stay about 2m apart while the Scout is blasting away with an 8-round semi-auto Shotgun that takes at least 80% of its target's health per shot at that range. Pretty sure you're dead four times over before I need to reload, even with a worst-case scenario of half my shots missing you'd die twice. Honestly, with how good many Scouts have already gotten at getting ourselves into position WITHOUT cloaking, frequently even when facing players with Scanners, it's wholly reasonable for Scouts to sneak into position using our current tactics, and only cloak on the way back out, after our attacks have alerted the enemy team to our presence. As for a cloak being "necessary", if we get 2 equipment slots, I'm going to have at least a few Nanohive/Repair Tool fittings. Probably running Shotguns on at least 2 of them. I don't think it's going to be very hard to shoot the glowing red chevron in the middle of the field (I was using his field example). I wish my shotgun could insta kill tanked proto suits who spin scan the whole match, since those are usually the only people who can walk away from a shotgun hit aside from heavies. It takes very little skill to notice that you've been shot in the back and to spin around while panic jumping/firing (hit detection still has issues). I'm not worried about killing incompetent players, I'm am concerned about tanked proto stompers hopping around after they've been shot once and not having a sidearm when hit detection decides to screw me over. I seriously doubt you hit all your shotgun shots when someone is randomly jumping around while hip firing at you (good luck fighting multiple people). Scouts don't have to use the cloak, but it doesn't change the fact that you are gimping yourself if you don't.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 230	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:09:00 - [260] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. If I were in your place, I would save the day by giving Scouts two variants of racial suit per each meta(STR, ADV, PRO). First one would be for cloaking with bonus for it, two EQP slots, and without Sidearm slot. Second one would be for people that don't want to use cloak, and wish to have more combat-oriented scout, with signature reduction and carrying explosives/grenades bonus or maybe speed bonus, 1 EQP slot, sidearm etc. . I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.

Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 722	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:18:00 - [261] - Quote mollerz wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: How about you post that on the main scout thread and see what they say? I posted it in the quid pro by scouty or whatshisname. Coward
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 33	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:20:00 - [262] - Quote Alternately, just give scouts an extra equipment slot flat out and don't trade anything for it, because scouts already get nothing for the HP trade they're making just by being Scouts.
Onesimus Tarsus 791	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:22:00 - [263] - Quote I just realized that I am completely immune to one particular problem, seeing that my BPO Dragonfly has a slot/weapons layout that I like, and they can't take that away from me. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2680	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:27:00 - [264] - Quote My beef is that the Caldari and Amarr bonuses force the scout to use a single piece of equipment and on top of that they are without profile reduction. Luckily for me the Gallente retain that bonus however a range nerf? That's either an extremely bad move or you better have a mega innate buff to the radius on the suit. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 556	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:28:00 - [265] - Quote All of this 'drama' could be mostly avoided if they offered suit variants... you know, those useful things that we have with virtually EVERY weapon? Those things that add some much needed diversity to the game? Yeah. They should add suit variants [back?].
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1221	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:30:00 - [266] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: My beef is that the Caldari and Amarr bonuses force the scout to use a single piece of equipment and on top of that they are without profile reduction. Luckily for me the Gallente retain that bonus however a range nerf? That's either an extremely bad move or you better have a mega innate buff to the radius on the suit. If base scan range is buffed to 20m the Gallente would essentially keep the same scan range capabilities as it has now (there is a slight buff). I believe this is CCP's plan. Also, Remnant already confirmed scout base profile is being reduced (currently considering ~35dB). Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Onesimus Tarsus 791	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:31:00 - [267] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: Alternately, just give scouts an extra equipment slot flat out and don't trade anything for it, because scouts already get nothing for the HP trade they're making just by being Scouts. Yup. Scouts: 90% easier to kill, 11% harder to see. It's the DUST 514 way. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 239	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:15:00 - [268] - Quote mollerz wrote: I'm throwing my hat in this eq slot ring: 2 sidearms and 2 EQ slots (for minja at least). Would solve a lot of problems. I'd be comfortable with that on my Minja, not sure about others would feel however.
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1210	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:31:00 - [269] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: OZAROW wrote: Also our low slots need our red/greens an have no room for hack mods. This also poses a HUGE CONCERN WITH PROFILE. How can we be fast ninjas with a 40.5 db after maxing complex damp? THIS MEANS ONE COMPLEX PD GIVES YOU 30 db an a 9.36 sprint, two gives you 22 db a8.36 sprint BUT OUR CPU IS TOO LOW TO DO THIS, PLUS WEAPONS AN SHIELDS! CCP REALLY LOOK AT THIS, how is a speedy ghost ninja gonna be speedy an ghost? Also why can't the scout just have the mod for cloak built in the suit like a vehicle passive? Why cant I cloak an run a uplink? CCP mentioned that the db might be reduced to 35, so 31.5 plus one complex = 23.6, tauntingly not low enough to dodge a proto gal logi scanner, then one militia/advance dampener gets you below the non focus proto variants. And in the post made earlier the trade off CCP is thinking is sidearm for a second equipment slot, which is a tough one to swallow either way. Glass Cannon flanker is the direction the min is going it seems. Also a min scout now seems can potentially do 464 melee damage if it goes crazy. That's really not cool tho unless we get A/B style suits A= light an side 1 equip B= light 2x equip Reason why is 1: if we wanted 1 weapon we would be logistics Reason 2: if enemy's know we only have one slot as soon as they see what weapon we have they will hunt us. This defeats the main advantage we have "The bait an trap tactic" I can't even count how many mercs I've killed by luring them close by running an not shooting my pistol faking that I'm out of bullets then switching to a shotgun when they get close an blasting them. Same goes by faking that my CR is out of bullets then rushing with knifes for the stab, if they know we only have one style suit with one weapon were screwed! SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
3Dollars Too Short Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 17	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:47:00 - [270] - Quote How about we get our sidearm SP back! If they take that away then give me back my SP! I invested to much time into my nova/pistol build...Ill keep the knives, but you cant take my pistol for nothing!!

OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1211	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:54:00 - [271] - Quote Yeah not a big fan of losing a weapon either, I have every sidearm at at least proficiency 4, an a shotgun an CR at pro 4 so with slow rof on a shotgun , an a quick clip on a CR how the hell you gonna kill high HP suits with nothing to switch to when your out, not to mention my muscle memory for the first month will keep trying to switch to a sidearm that isn't there, I can't even begin to fathom how mad everyone will get dying this way. Just make A/B suits please! SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
mollerz Minja Scouts 1830	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:56:00 - [272] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: mollerz wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: How about you post that on the main scout thread and see what they say? I posted it in the quid pro by scouty or whatshisname. Coward I am not sure, even I, with my deft wit and mastery of the yankee english, could explain the nuances and intricacies of my posts and why they are not troll, and yours are inadvertently troll via a naivet+¬ not seen since the pre-internet era. Good day, sir. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 32	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:02:00 - [273] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: ... Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi and your stealth link meant nothing. You're crossing a field and.......scanned by a proto gal logi. Actually, it wont be that dificult for a scout to avoid scans, still. If they stick to the proposed 35dB default profile, then it only takes damping level3, and 2xadv damps, to avoid normal proto scanners, even with gallente logi bonus. Your profile wil be 21.74dB, if I did the math right. The focused duvolle will still be a problem of course. But if barely anyone runs them now, most likely barely anyone will run them in the future. I think CCP didnt do too badly with the scaling this time. This part, actually IS a slight buff to scouts, in that it will be more difficult, if not impossible, for medium frames, to get under scans now. but not for scouts. So in that sense, it would be good for scouts to see a bunch of gallente logi scanners in the field. but what about min scouts that only have two low slots? Again, gallente scouts will have an advantage Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Thor Odinson42 molon labe. Public Disorder. 2513	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:12:00 - [274] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. Is it really necessary to remove the sidearm at all though? I mean, I see your reasoning that if they get a second equipment slot then got to take something away, but truth of the matter is one of those equipment slots needs to be filled with a cloak so you still only really have one. I don't think scouts with sidearms and two equipment would be all that bad. Agreed, I think they should keep the sidearm ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
mollerz Minja Scouts 1832	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:14:00 - [275] - Quote How about 1L/1SA/2EQ. period. done. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 32	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:16:00 - [276] - Quote mollerz wrote: How about 1L/1SA/2EQ. period. done. You forgot a slight (20 cpu, 5pg) bonus to the suit fittings Other than that, nice job Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Onesimus Tarsus 801	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:21:00 - [277] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: mollerz wrote: How about 1L/1SA/2EQ. period. done. You forgot a slight (20 cpu, 5pg) bonus to the suit fittings Other than that, nice job CCP dev: "OOH! I know! Let's have a huge buff to CPU and PG and just take away all the scout slots! Low, high, weapons, equipment, EVERYTHING!!!" Good meeting, guys! I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1835	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:24:00 - [278] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: mollerz wrote: How about 1L/1SA/2EQ. period. done. You forgot a slight (20 cpu, 5pg) bonus to the suit fittings Other than that, nice job No. It needs more than that. 20CPU is nothing. What can you fit more than you couldn't with 20? Other than a compact nano hive or a basic nade (which the CPM is now apparently sacrificing for our benefit) you don't have much to work with. The CPU/PG bump has to be well thought out and functional. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 35	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:40:00 - [279] - Quote mollerz wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: mollerz wrote: How about 1L/1SA/2EQ. period. done. You forgot a slight (20 cpu, 5pg) bonus to the suit fittings Other than that, nice job No. It needs more than that. 20CPU is nothing. What can you fit more than you couldn't with 20? Other than a compact nano hive or a basic nade (which the CPM is now apparently sacrificing for our benefit) you don't have much to work with. The CPU/PG bump has to be well thought out and functional. Well, with maximum fitting skills, it actually comes out to be 20x1.3=26, and 5x1.3=6.5, which would be enough to fit these on my minnie scout(230 cpu, 60 pg)+20 cpu, 5 pg=250 cpu, 65 pgx 1.3=325 cpu, 84.5 pg -54 cpu, 11 pg x 3 (complex shield extenders)=-162 cpu, -33 pg=163 cpu, 51.5 pg -27 cpu, 15 pg x 2 (complex kincats)=-54 cpu, -30 pg=109 cpu, 21.5 pg thats it for modules. now for weapons. I use a shotgun, so thats what i am going to build this calculation on (federation specialist creodron shotgun) the light weapon bonus which needs to be at least at level 4 to unlock shotguns gives a 3% reduction for light weapon cpu usage per level. Lets assume you have this skill at level 5. We will assume no fitting op. skill 51 cpu x.85=43.35 cpu = 65.65 cpu. 13.5 pg next, we will try to fit a sidearm. lets go with the basic SMG (15 cpu, 3 pg) to unlock the SMG, sidearm operation level 2 must be met. We will assume level 3 (flaylocks) Each level gives a 3% reduction to cpu/pg 15x.91=13.65 cpu, 3 pg=52 cpu, 10.5 pg Now we can try to fit an active scanner. I personally use the stable variant, and dont know the exact stats for other active scanners, but am certain that they would be able to be fitted onto the suit with the remaining cpu/ pg. Hope this helped! (this was a well thought out buff to cpu/pg) Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 287	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:42:00 - [280] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Lucifalic wrote: Scouts lose theirs to get one extra equipment slot that, due to low cpu/pg, is forcing the cloak to take advantage of the terrible bonus they are getting... They get lowest health of all suits, low cpu/pg, low slot count, slightly more speed, slightly better dampening and precision.. You're assuming Scout PG and CPU aren't getting an increase when it's been mentioned that they probably are. Also, the Scan Profile (and presumably Precision as well) will be getting a significant reduction (as in buff). Combine those with being the only suit that will be able to fit a Cloak with minimal compromise, and the loss of sidearm doesn't look quite so horrible. The more I think about it, the more I can see validity in the argument that we shouldn't lose our Sidearm slot for it, but at the same time, it doesn't seem too harsh a penalty for the buffs coming our way. No because the scout is getting a buff but it is already UP and deserving of the buff. Removing the sidearm is a disaster. I bet the majority of scouts would prefer the sidearm over the extra equipment slot. Please fix the mic bubble bug...

Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2683	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:47:00 - [281] - Quote Remnant, no offense, but... My sidearm bro! I request y'all at CCP to cease desist attempts to remove sidearms from scouts. I have asked for the return of the B Series but this is too far! Do not replace the A series with the B series, that's like forced transgender surgery! Please do not take the fun out of the scout to make it "better". It is honestly, and conceded by medium frame users, the most fun suit. Please do not make the scout any less fun. It's the last pillar of reason I play dust. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 35	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:04:00 - [282] - Quote To everyone who has read this or has yet to read this, i have updated the OP due to feedback from the community. Thanks! Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 240	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:04:00 - [283] - Quote mollerz wrote: How about 1L/1SA/2EQ. period. done. Reposted from the scout thread for visibility: Mollerz has the right of it. If there are to be any restrictions, keep out CPU/PG low so we can't reasonably fit two pieces of equipment without sacrificing elsewhere, unless one of them is the cloak. If the cloak is to be out millstone, then don't punish us for it. 1L/1S/1G/2EQ. CCP please note, an UP class should not have to horse trade to receive a buff. The above is a compromise that does not destroy diversity for the sake of the cloak, and stops the scout from becoming a logi-lite.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 15	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:05:00 - [284] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. Why not just have a small UI text element near the HUD that just says something like "ECM Active" or what have you. I love this idea too!
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4596	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:07:00 - [285] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Honestly, I think you guys are restricting the play style a bit too much here. Re-balancing/buffing Scouts is a good idea but it seems to me that you're trying to prevent them from being over-powered when they're anything but. No amount of low profile is going to save you once you've been sighted and the Scout just doesn't have the EHP to last. The lack of a sidearm significantly restricts available playstyles and is much too narrow. At this point, you're practically forcing the decision upon the player rather than giving them the option to make the choice themselves. Players are being faced with a choice of either having cloaking and a sidearm or cloaking and an equipment slot. Both of these are detrimental in their own ways but ultimately it's not up to the player once the decision is set in stone. Once it goes live, they're locked into whatever decision was made. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 15	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:08:00 - [286] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) I don't think enough likes exist on the DUST forums for this! Awesome! Great job CCP
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4597	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:38:00 - [287] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) I don't think enough likes exist on the DUST forums for this! Awesome! Great job CCP EDIT - Assuming you are saying there is a choice between 2. I.E Scout Variant 1 - 1 equip slot and keeps sidearm, Scout Variant 2 - 2 equip and loses sidearm. Probably won't be any variants. The purpose of the types back in Chromosome was due to not having racial parity; something they're working on fixing. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 71	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:41:00 - [288] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Admonishment wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) So what happens to Gallente scouts that use shotguns? I use the breach shotgun, I only get 2 shots a magazine with slow reload even with the skill points invested into rapid reload. If their side arm slot is being taken away wouldn't that limit people that use niche weapons? Are those type of weapons receiving a buff to make up for the lack of a side arm? I guess their thinking is most likely, "if you miss the kill, use your cloak to run away", and that's the buff . In other words, you can have cloak for getting into trouble, or cloak for getting out of trouble, but not both. (because of the cooldown. unless its just crazy short) Now, in my opinion, that sucks.... but its still probably the way they're thinking :-/ That's what makes little sense to me since a lot of suits now are bricked and will survive the initial shot and will just simply turn around and hip fire instantly the second they take damage. That is when I usually switch to my sidearm because the shotgun can be unreliable by itself in that type of situation. If this is the fix to scouts that same fix also kills the weapon I chose to put all those points into if it stays in the state its in now. It also makes the points I invested into my sidearm a complete waste. I get a piece of equipment to do what I have already done since the beginning...without it. I would rather just have my run speed back. Level 5 proficiency in throat punching
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1550	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:50:00 - [289] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. I like it and I am up for anything that makes the suits different. The UI could just display "Scan Precision Error" to the effected merc. I am game for whatever and if it doesn't work perfectly that's ok because we will let you know. Very soon after. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1213	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:12:00 - [290] - Quote Like I said before, if everyone knows we only have one weapon, they will hunt us from range, an were toast, plus we're forced to always buy and use cloaks, it makes absolutely no sence why we just can't have the same slot setup plus a extra equip or have the A/B styles. You think scouts are bad now? Wait till all your sp is wasted an not refunded in sidearms, an your trying to drop a proto suit in pc with profile damps in your low slots an still getting scanned. Black eagles will be the most sought after suit if this happens, not to mention the tickets sent in by furious scouts, anything but a A/B CLass will really hurt the scout comunity SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4

mollerz Minja Scouts 1845	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:39:00 - [291] - Quote All scout suits. All tiers. ALL THE TIME! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! All scout suits. All tiers. ALL THE TIME! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1845	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:41:00 - [292] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Like I said before, if everyone knows we only have one weapon, they will hunt us from range, an were toast,y One of the best real world arguments to this debate yet. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Onesimus Tarsus 810	Posted - 2014.01.14 05:28:00 - [293] - Quote mollerz wrote: All scout suits. All tiers. ALL THE TIME! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! All scout suits. All tiers. ALL THE TIME! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! 1L/1SA/1G/2EQ!! What he said. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Oswald Rehnquist 1091	Posted - 2014.01.14 06:08:00 - [294] - Quote considering a dev was looking for another cal bonus until further features get implemented into the game, I don't know what thread or who said this first but a potential cal scout bonus of an added 5% per level reduction to cpu/pg cloak would work as a temp bonus, so instead of a gal/min which gets a "free slot", the cal scout would get more cpu/pg per slot. Below 28 dB
Qn1f3 Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:16:00 - [295] - Quote Okay, firstly this thread was a beast to read up on(but hell I liked a lot of the input). Proposition for the removal of the Sidearm and introduction of a 2nd Equipment slot for Scouts How about if we introduce a Hybrid Slot, or is that something that spits and *** on lore? Instead of forcing something upon us, let us chose for ourselves how we want to play the Scout class. The Hybrid Slot would either fit a Sidearm or an piece of Equipment. A. Make the Sidearm Slot a Hybrid Slot. B. Make the Sidearm Slot and the Equipment Slot a Hybrid Slot** This would give us great versatility without forcing us into playing a way we don't want to, playing a way that is not viable. Cause as it is right know, it takes a lot of effort to effectively play the Scout(which it should, but it should not be a nische choice for forced masochists). I have some other thoughts as well, but this is priority. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ Notes to self: Pilot, Profile, Type A/B(suit variations for Scout).
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6425	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:32:00 - [296] - Quote Last time I checked, you can still fit a Nova Knife on the light-slot even though you lose a sidearm slot. Hell, you can still fit any sidearm into the light slot for that matter. You just aren't able to fit a light weapon like the AR into the sidearm slot. I have been keeping tabs with the patch notes and so far CCP hasn't changed that. With CCP Remnant's suggestion, you'll just have to decide whether to go with light weapon only or sidearm only but at least you get two equipment slots for the scout. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6425	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:36:00 - [297] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Remnant, no offense, but... My sidearm bro! I request y'all at CCP to cease desist attempts to remove sidearms from scouts. I have asked for the return of the B Series but this is too far! Do not replace the A series with the B series, that's like forced transgender surgery! Please do not take the fun out of the scout to make it "better". It is honestly, and conceded by medium frame users, the most fun suit. Please do not make the scout any less fun. It's the last pillar of reason I play dust. But.... aren't you guys still able to fit any sidearm weapon into the light slot? Back in 1.6, I was able to put together a dual-SMG fit. It's like a poor-man's mini-commando of sorts but fitting sidearms to light slots was possible. So far, the 1.7 patch notes hasn't changed that. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 169	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:40:00 - [298] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Last time I checked, you can still fit a Nova Knife on the light-slot even though you lose a sidearm slot. Hell, you can still fit any sidearm into the light slot for that matter. You just aren't able to fit a light weapon like the AR into the sidearm slot. I have been keeping tabs with the patch notes and so far CCP hasn't changed that. With CCP Remnant's suggestion, you'll just have to decide whether to go with light weapon only or sidearm only but at least you get two equipment slots for the scout. Wow...I can run a NK as a primary with no sidearm...yay... I totally didn't see that as a possibility . I know you have a history of forcing UP fits just because you are determined to use them, but some of us actually want to be objectively viable and versatile in high level play.
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6425	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:53:00 - [299] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Last time I checked, you can still fit a Nova Knife on the light-slot even though you lose a sidearm slot. Hell, you can still fit any sidearm into the light slot for that matter. You just aren't able to fit a light weapon like the AR into the sidearm slot. I have been keeping tabs with the patch notes and so far CCP hasn't changed that. With CCP Remnant's suggestion, you'll just have to decide whether to go with light weapon only or sidearm only but at least you get two equipment slots for the scout. Wow...I can run a NK as a primary with no sidearm...yay... I totally didn't see that as a possibility . I know you have a history of forcing UP fits just because you are determined to use them, but some of us actually want to be objectively viable and versatile in high level play. The only reason NKs aren't completely viable is because they lack the ability to sprint with the charge held. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6425	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:56:00 - [300] - Quote @CCP Remnant Any chance of the Nova Knives being able to one day allow sprinting with the charge held? What about being able to at least do a quick-slash (no charge) without our sprint being interrupted? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 169	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:15:00 - [301] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Last time I checked, you can still fit a Nova Knife on the light-slot even though you lose a sidearm slot. Hell, you can still fit any sidearm into the light slot for that matter. You just aren't able to fit a light weapon like the AR into the sidearm slot. I have been keeping tabs with the patch notes and so far CCP hasn't changed that. With CCP Remnant's suggestion, you'll just have to decide whether to go with light weapon only or sidearm only but at least you get two equipment slots for the scout. Wow...I can run a NK as a primary with no sidearm...yay... I totally didn't see that as a possibility . I know you have a history of forcing UP fits just because you are determined to use them, but some of us actually want to be objectively viable and versatile in high level play. The only reason NKs aren't completely viable is because they lack the ability to sprint with the charge held. Regardless of how viable any particular sidarm is/isn't, the issue isn't what you can/can't put in the weapon slot, it's the resulting loss of versatility. Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game.
voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:32:00 - [302] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Last time I checked, you can still fit a Nova Knife on the light-slot even though you lose a sidearm slot. Hell, you can still fit any sidearm into the light slot for that matter. You just aren't able to fit a light weapon like the AR into the sidearm slot. I have been keeping tabs with the patch notes and so far CCP hasn't changed that. With CCP Remnant's suggestion, you'll just have to decide whether to go with light weapon only or sidearm only but at least you get two equipment slots for the scout. Wow...I can run a NK as a primary with no sidearm...yay... I totally didn't see that as a possibility . I know you have a history of forcing UP fits just because you are determined to use them, but some of us actually want to be objectively viable and versatile in high level play. The only reason NKs aren't completely viable is because they lack the ability to sprint with the charge held. Regardless of how viable any particular sidarm is/isn't, the issue isn't what you can/can't put in the weapon slot, it's the resulting loss of versatility. Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. So what your saying is you should be able to take on 2 assaults and win even though it was you that made the first wrong decision of attacking the 2 assaults standing next to each other? Stealth and cloak will allow the scout to choose when and who to attack and let's not forget you still have grenade slot and or re's.
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 170	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:49:00 - [303] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Last time I checked, you can still fit a Nova Knife on the light-slot even though you lose a sidearm slot. Hell, you can still fit any sidearm into the light slot for that matter. You just aren't able to fit a light weapon like the AR into the sidearm slot. I have been keeping tabs with the patch notes and so far CCP hasn't changed that. With CCP Remnant's suggestion, you'll just have to decide whether to go with light weapon only or sidearm only but at least you get two equipment slots for the scout. Wow...I can run a NK as a primary with no sidearm...yay... I totally didn't see that as a possibility . I know you have a history of forcing UP fits just because you are determined to use them, but some of us actually want to be objectively viable and versatile in high level play. The only reason NKs aren't completely viable is because they lack the ability to sprint with the charge held. Regardless of how viable any particular sidarm is/isn't, the issue isn't what you can/can't put in the weapon slot, it's the resulting loss of versatility. Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. So what your saying is you should be able to take on 2 assaults and win even though it was you that made the first wrong decision of attacking the 2 assaults standing next to each other? Stealth and cloak will allow the scout to choose when and who to attack and let's not forget you still have grenade slot and or re's. I'm saying that a shotgun scout sneaking up cloaked on two assaults standing near each other, should have a decent chance of killing both. Not guaranteed, and assuming all shots by the scout hit their mark perfectly with no mistakes. If the scout screws up, or the assaults play the situation properly, then the scout is as good as dead. If the scout is guaranteed not to have a sidearm, then he is almost guaranteed to die in such a situation, regardless of his own skill. I want to see a Dust where there is high versatility in all fittings and only the most dire situations are a guaranteed loss. It promotes a game where the best player wins, in terms of both fps skill and fitting knowledge. Keeping the scout's sidearm is the best way to promote that ideal. EDIT: REs are not viable in this situation, as the scout would have to decloak (making a noise), plant the RE (making another obvious noise), then back up and wait for it to arm, getting killed long before this is all complete. Grenades would result in the same situation, except having to stand and cook the grenade rather than waiting for arming time.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4329	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:55:00 - [304] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. And here's how the Scout avoids this problem. Two Assault players are standing next to each other. They hear a Shotgun blast, and one is dead already because the Scout aimed high. The other turns towards his partner as he falls, seeing the Scout already turning to take a shot at him. By the time he can think to back up, he's taken a hit, and his suit is heavily damaged. Because he's facing the Scout, any attempt to backpedal can be matched by the Scout, so the second shot finishes the job. The sound of multiple Shotgun blasts, and the sight of 2 dead teammates on the kill feed has drawn reinforcements towards the Scout, but as they approach, they hear a different sound. By the time they show up, there's no trace of the killer.
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 170	Posted - 2014.01.14 09:01:00 - [305] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. And here's how the Scout avoids this problem. Two Assault players are standing next to each other. They hear a Shotgun blast, and one is dead already because the Scout aimed high. The other turns towards his partner as he falls, seeing the Scout already turning to take a shot at him. By the time he can think to back up, he's taken a hit, and his suit is heavily damaged. Because he's facing the Scout, any attempt to backpedal can be matched by the Scout, so the second shot finishes the job. The sound of multiple Shotgun blasts, and the sight of 2 dead teammates on the kill feed has drawn reinforcements towards the Scout, but as they approach, they hear a different sound. By the time they show up, there's no trace of the killer. That's assuming a shotgun headshot will ohk an assault, which at the current time isn't always the case. If we're assuming all Proto on both sides, it often isn't the case, as it is nearly impossible to get a FULL headshot with the shotgun. Since we can only consider what we currently know/have, then your proposed situation isn't necessarily viable, as Proto vs Proto means the shotgun would be 2HK or 3HK at best.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 34	Posted - 2014.01.14 09:09:00 - [306] - Quote voidfaction wrote: So what your saying is you should be able to take on 2 assaults and win even though it was you that made the first wrong decision of attacking the 2 assaults standing next to each other? Yes, because the Scout used their EWAR powers to engineer a situation where they had the tactical advantage, the Scout should win. I come out on top of the described engagement now despite not being able to turn invisible, and the Assaults are getting buffed as it is, so why should the Scouts be nerfed? (by being forced into cloaking and then hobbling cloaking devices)
Piraten Hovnoret molon labe. Public Disorder. 226	Posted - 2014.01.14 09:41:00 - [307] - Quote Just want to say that a 16 page topic about scouts is AWSOME Scouts deserve some love War never changes
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4329	Posted - 2014.01.14 09:41:00 - [308] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. And here's how the Scout avoids this problem. Two Assault players are standing next to each other. They hear a Shotgun blast, and one is dead already because the Scout aimed high. The other turns towards his partner as he falls, seeing the Scout already turning to take a shot at him. By the time he can think to back up, he's taken a hit, and his suit is heavily damaged. Because he's facing the Scout, any attempt to backpedal can be matched by the Scout, so the second shot finishes the job. The sound of multiple Shotgun blasts, and the sight of 2 dead teammates on the kill feed has drawn reinforcements towards the Scout, but as they approach, they hear a different sound. By the time they show up, there's no trace of the killer. That's assuming a shotgun headshot will ohk an assault, which at the current time isn't always the case. If we're assuming all Proto on both sides, it often isn't the case, as it is nearly impossible to get a FULL headshot with the shotgun. Since we can only consider what we currently know/have, then your proposed situation isn't necessarily viable, as Proto vs Proto means the shotgun would be 2HK or 3HK at best. I can OHK protosuits semi-regularly using a Militia Shotgun with no damage mods. If I don't OHK, either I missed (unlikely when hitting with the element of surprise on my side) or they're so close to death that I can go for the melee kill before turning to shoot the other guy. When I bring a real Shotgun or my Militia fit with damage mods, only Heavies and supertank Logis take more than one hit.
Wurm FOOD The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 23	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:28:00 - [309] - Quote Seeing as scout slots may be 1L/2EQ, I was just wondering if the basic light frames would be the same or if they would be the normal eg. 1L/1S/1EQ? Member of the Commando 6 All hail the Commando ak.0
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 172	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:30:00 - [310] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. And here's how the Scout avoids this problem. Two Assault players are standing next to each other. They hear a Shotgun blast, and one is dead already because the Scout aimed high. The other turns towards his partner as he falls, seeing the Scout already turning to take a shot at him. By the time he can think to back up, he's taken a hit, and his suit is heavily damaged. Because he's facing the Scout, any attempt to backpedal can be matched by the Scout, so the second shot finishes the job. The sound of multiple Shotgun blasts, and the sight of 2 dead teammates on the kill feed has drawn reinforcements towards the Scout, but as they approach, they hear a different sound. By the time they show up, there's no trace of the killer. That's assuming a shotgun headshot will ohk an assault, which at the current time isn't always the case. If we're assuming all Proto on both sides, it often isn't the case, as it is nearly impossible to get a FULL headshot with the shotgun. Since we can only consider what we currently know/have, then your proposed situation isn't necessarily viable, as Proto vs Proto means the shotgun would be 2HK or 3HK at best. I can OHK protosuits semi-regularly using a Militia Shotgun with no damage mods. If I don't OHK, either I missed (unlikely when hitting with the element of surprise on my side) or they're so close to death that I can go for the melee kill before turning to shoot the other guy. When I bring a real Shotgun or my Militia fit with damage mods, only Heavies and supertank Logis take more than one hit. Assuming the average well fit proto has ~800 HP, then they weren't at full HP or weren't tanked properly. A militia shotgun cannot do 800HP of damage in a single headshot, not even to 100% shields, which in itself isn't possible. The proto shotgun has a bit more potential for an OHK, but it would still NEED a full headshot to do about 870HP of damage and would not OHK an armor tanked or dual tanked suit. In case you were going to try to argue it, it is entirely reasonable to say the average PRO med frame has 800eHP. I know that a minmatar assault with 3 complex SEs and 2 enh APs has approximately 810eHP (about 1:1 for S:A). Considering it has the lowest base HP, and that all other assaults usually fit either the same or more in modules, 800 is a fair and even conservative average.

OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1215	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:42:00 - [311] - Quote I'm with shutterfly on this, I've damage tested all shotguns and if there was truth to Garets statement militia shotguns would be the Pc weapon of choice lol. People are scared of scouts for one reason an one reason only: MED FRAMES DON'T SPEND SP ON ELECTRONIC SKILLS OR WEAR ELECTRONIC MODS! PERIOD! There all to concerned with dps an ttk, so when a tiny little fast basic suit sneaks up an mashes your 200000 isk suit with a 300hp suit that costs 10 000 isk your bent cuz he just embarrassed you infront of your peers, cuz the skinny little bastard flat out, trapped you an outsmarted you. Plain an simple, if med frames experimented with smarter stealth load outs they would find that it's better than a huge tank an dps, cuz if you get the drop you should win. Med frames are scared that with added stealth good scouts will be great an actually show them how bad they are at this game once we have a equal advantage , an we should, scouts get pasted to the wall from 150m away by 3x damage on a pro 5 rifle in .02 sec, an that's fair but a scout catches you an ur buddy slipping an you gotta make sure he has no side arm so you can spin and pray? GIVE ME A BREAK! Assaults get a rof bonus an I'm force to lose a side arm because of a cloak mod? What if I don't use the cloak I still can't fit a sidearm but a assault can cloak with a shotgun an a smg? A Amar logi with equipment bonuses can have a similar reduction to a scout an have two weapons, a scanner an links an his lows full of complex CPU an pg mods YET SCOUTS LOSE A GUN?! Ya right! SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4330	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:50:00 - [312] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Assuming the average well fit proto has ~800 HP, then they weren't at full HP or weren't tanked properly. A militia shotgun cannot do 800HP of damage in a single headshot, not even to 100% shields, which in itself isn't possible. The proto shotgun has a bit more potential for an OHK, but it would still NEED a full headshot to do about 870HP of damage and would not OHK an armor tanked or dual tanked suit. In case you were going to try to argue it, it is entirely reasonable to say the average PRO med frame has 800eHP. I know that a minmatar assault with 3 complex SEs and 2 enh APs has approximately 810eHP (about 1:1 for S:A). Considering it has the lowest base HP, and that all other assaults usually fit either the same or more in modules, 800 is a fair and even conservative average. Assuming every protosuit uses all their slots for tanking isn't what I'd call "conservative" personally. Even "fair" is quite a stretch. Also, assuming enough protosuits are well fit to use that as an average is beyond ridiculous. Even assuming the majority of protosuits have full proto fits is questionable.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4599	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:33:00 - [313] - Quote Hypothetical situations and past experiences aren't good examples for future balancing for either argument. I, and many others in my circle, all agree that removing Sidearms from scouts to any degree is a bad move. There is no reason to automatically assume that something is going to be over-powered before the community has even gotten a chance to work with it and the Scout community has, ever since the beginning of Uprising in May, been asking for Scouts to have two equipment slots. Giving them the second equipment slot after all this time in tandem with cloaking (which automatically fills one slot) and removing the sidearm effectively gives them limited cloaking ability and less offensive capability. That's literally all it does. It's a buff and a nerf in the same hand-out and the last thing we need to be doing at this point is nerfing the Scouts any further. A much more elegant solution would be to provide Scouts with enough CPU/PG to choose between one or the other rather than force the decision upon them. Let me be clear. Scouts are -not- easy to kill Logistics. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6428	Posted - 2014.01.14 15:27:00 - [314] - Quote Well, if we're going to lose a side arm but gaining an extra equipment slot, wouldn't that mean our CPU/PG should get buffed? Surely more equipment would require more CPU and PG, right? It would make sense if we get buff to that as well if we're going this route. @Flutter Sh... err... Shutter Fly I can see what you mean that if you are cloaked then you already setup the advantage and should have a greater likelihood of killing both targets if none of them knew you were there due to the cloak. The loss in the ability to have two optimal ranges could also be a factor. In this case, perhaps a movement and sprint speed buff would be in order since scouts should be inherently faster to begin with. Unlike medium and heavy frames, we don't have that much stuff carrying around. Would you be ok with losing the sidearm slot if it meant being given a sufficient speed buff? If so, what would be the minimum buff you expect? If not, what other compensation would you work with? EDIT: or would you rather not lose the sidearm slot at all? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4605	Posted - 2014.01.14 15:59:00 - [315] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Well, if we're going to lose a side arm but gaining an extra equipment slot, wouldn't that mean our CPU/PG should get buffed? Surely more equipment would require more CPU and PG, right? It would make sense if we get buff to that as well if we're going this route. @Flutter Sh... err... Shutter Fly I can see what you mean that if you are cloaked then you already setup the advantage and should have a greater likelihood of killing both targets if none of them knew you were there due to the cloak. The loss in the ability to have two optimal ranges could also be a factor. In this case, perhaps a movement and sprint speed buff would be in order since scouts should be inherently faster to begin with. Unlike medium and heavy frames, we don't have that much stuff carrying around. Would you be ok with losing the sidearm slot if it meant being given a sufficient speed buff? If so, what would be the minimum buff you expect? If not, what other compensation would you work with? EDIT: or would you rather not lose the sidearm slot at all? And what of the Scouts who don't want to run cloaking devices? Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 401	Posted - 2014.01.14 16:08:00 - [316] - Quote The most appropriate way to implement this is to create variants.... Where all 4 races can choose between a 'regular scout' and a 'cloaked scout' (w/2eqp, no sidearm) I seem to be the only one suggesting this and that surprises me CCP seem to think racist suit choices are the better option.... Which I get that there should be differences... but to have Gal/Min scouts struggle for months Then bring out 2 new suits that from the sounds of things will be better than both of the current scout options... This is a really nice way to reward players for skilling into a class Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 291	Posted - 2014.01.14 16:29:00 - [317] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Assuming the average well fit proto has ~800 HP, then they weren't at full HP or weren't tanked properly. A militia shotgun cannot do 800HP of damage in a single headshot, not even to 100% shields, which in itself isn't possible. The proto shotgun has a bit more potential for an OHK, but it would still NEED a full headshot to do about 870HP of damage and would not OHK an armor tanked or dual tanked suit. In case you were going to try to argue it, it is entirely reasonable to say the average PRO med frame has 800eHP. I know that a minmatar assault with 3 complex SEs and 2 enh APs has approximately 810eHP (about 1:1 for S:A). Considering it has the lowest base HP, and that all other assaults usually fit either the same or more in modules, 800 is a fair and even conservative average. Assuming every protosuit uses all their slots for tanking isn't what I'd call "conservative" personally. Even "fair" is quite a stretch. Also, assuming enough protosuits are well fit to use that as an average is beyond ridiculous. Even assuming the majority of protosuits have full proto fits is questionable. Let's end this. Taking away a side arm slot is a horrible idea that will seriously affect the scouts enjoyability and survivability. Regarding the SG a proto suit almost always takes more then one hit on anyone with any amount of skill. I have a ton of experience running the SG, even in PC to my folly these days :) Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 727	Posted - 2014.01.14 16:38:00 - [318] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: ... Then bring out 2 new suits that from the sounds of things will be better than both of the current scout options... This is a really nice way to reward players for skilling into a class "better" is subjective. If the new suits were cloak optimized (and without sidearm), but the current suits stayed as-is.. it sounds like there would be a bunch of poeple who would stick to the old suits. So, if they left them as-is, you wont be punished for your SP investment.... and as far as the new suits, you'll be on the same footing as anyone else who is interested in them. I'm thinking this may be the best of both worlds these days: Leave the old suits as-is. make the new suits 1LP/2EQ
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4606	Posted - 2014.01.14 16:40:00 - [319] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The most appropriate way to implement this is to create variants.... Where all 4 races can choose between a 'regular scout' and a 'cloaked scout' (w/2eqp, no sidearm) I seem to be the only one suggesting this and that surprises me CCP seem to think racist suit choices are the better option.... Which I get that there should be differences... but to have Gal/Min scouts struggle for months Then bring out 2 new suits that from the sounds of things will be better than both of the current scout options... This is a really nice way to reward players for skilling into a class You're not the only one suggesting it, it's just that it's not the optimal solution and further complicates things. Instead of trying to balance out four scouts we'd then have to balance out eight - let alone all of the tiers (militia, standard, advanced and proto) Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1229	Posted - 2014.01.14 16:46:00 - [320] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: You're not the only one suggesting it, it's just that it's not the optimal solution and further complicates things. Instead of trying to balance out four scouts we'd then have to balance out eight - let alone all of the tiers (militia, standard, advanced and proto) Rather than variants, we need new classes. Currently there are too many playstyles that are looking to the scout to be their suit. Scout - EWar focus (w/ 2x EQP) (Preferably w/ sidearm slot as well so specialist weapon users aren't left out in the rain) Assassin - T3 suit with CQC sidearm focus A T2 light suit with bonuses to sniping and AV. Can have 2x light weapons and 2x equipment. Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter

Kuroiokami Tsukinaku A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 16	Posted - 2014.01.14 17:44:00 - [321] - Quote While I haven't seen exactally what the cloak can do, I personaly would rather loose capacity of our future cloak than to loose a sidearm. If CCP feels that some trade off is required to justify the 'hugs' of 1.8 (which I disagree with in concept). Cut the cloak time in half... add my shimmer/glitter when it's activated... whatever. Using my AR, CR, or MD I have had frequent occasion to call upon my SMG or pistol to help out. And I would rather keep the ability to finish off an opponent than to run away whilst glittering.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 27	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:01:00 - [322] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. And here's how the Scout avoids this problem. Two Assault players are standing next to each other. They hear a Shotgun blast, and one is dead already because the Scout aimed high. The other turns towards his partner as he falls, seeing the Scout already turning to take a shot at him. By the time he can think to back up, he's taken a hit, and his suit is heavily damaged. Because he's facing the Scout, any attempt to backpedal can be matched by the Scout, so the second shot finishes the job. The sound of multiple Shotgun blasts, and the sight of 2 dead teammates on the kill feed has drawn reinforcements towards the Scout, but as they approach, they hear a different sound. By the time they show up, there's no trace of the killer. That's assuming a shotgun headshot will ohk an assault, which at the current time isn't always the case. If we're assuming all Proto on both sides, it often isn't the case, as it is nearly impossible to get a FULL headshot with the shotgun. Since we can only consider what we currently know/have, then your proposed situation isn't necessarily viable, as Proto vs Proto means the shotgun would be 2HK or 3HK at best. I can OHK protosuits semi-regularly using a Militia Shotgun with no damage mods. If I don't OHK, either I missed (unlikely when hitting with the element of surprise on my side) or they're so close to death that I can go for the melee kill before turning to shoot the other guy. When I bring a real Shotgun or my Militia fit with damage mods, only Heavies and supertank Logis take more than one hit. Which militia light frame allows you to stack damages mods, let alone good ones to make a difference (min light has zero highs and gal only has 1)? Now I know you're talking out of your ass if you expect me to believe that you're sneaking up on and killing tanked logis who are spin scanning or heavies who take around 3 shots nowadays to down regularly. Good heavies will also spin right around and mow you down in the blink of an eye.
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 177	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:29:00 - [323] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Assuming the average well fit proto has ~800 HP, then they weren't at full HP or weren't tanked properly. A militia shotgun cannot do 800HP of damage in a single headshot, not even to 100% shields, which in itself isn't possible. The proto shotgun has a bit more potential for an OHK, but it would still NEED a full headshot to do about 870HP of damage and would not OHK an armor tanked or dual tanked suit. In case you were going to try to argue it, it is entirely reasonable to say the average PRO med frame has 800eHP. I know that a minmatar assault with 3 complex SEs and 2 enh APs has approximately 810eHP (about 1:1 for S:A). Considering it has the lowest base HP, and that all other assaults usually fit either the same or more in modules, 800 is a fair and even conservative average. Assuming every protosuit uses all their slots for tanking isn't what I'd call "conservative" personally. Even "fair" is quite a stretch. Also, assuming enough protosuits are well fit to use that as an average is beyond ridiculous. Even assuming the majority of protosuits have full proto fits is questionable. Using 3H/2L isn't "all their slots" for any proto med dropsuit. Do you even have proto assault suits? The Minmatar has the least potential for total eHP, yet it can surpass 800HP while still fitting two DMs. Because the Minmatar Assault has the lowest base HP of all assaults, and it has the least lows, that means it is easily possible for all other proto assaults to surpass 800HP without going full tank. I can post fittings for all four suits proving this if you want, but it's pretty obvious as it is. Why would anyone who isn't an idiot run a proto dropsuit that isn't fit in all proto gear? You're better off running an ADV suit if you don't have all the modules and equipment you need for a proto fit. There's no point in discussing it if we have to assume the suits in question are fitted with some random hodgepodge of Myofibril Stimulants and Codebreakers.
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 179	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:45:00 - [324] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Well, if we're going to lose a side arm but gaining an extra equipment slot, wouldn't that mean our CPU/PG should get buffed? Surely more equipment would require more CPU and PG, right? It would make sense if we get buff to that as well if we're going this route. @Flutter Sh... err... Shutter Fly I can see what you mean that if you are cloaked then you already setup the advantage and should have a greater likelihood of killing both targets if none of them knew you were there due to the cloak. The loss in the ability to have two optimal ranges could also be a factor. In this case, perhaps a movement and sprint speed buff would be in order since scouts should be inherently faster to begin with. Unlike medium and heavy frames, we don't have that much stuff carrying around. Would you be ok with losing the sidearm slot if it meant being given a sufficient speed buff? If so, what would be the minimum buff you expect? If not, what other compensation would you work with? EDIT: or would you rather not lose the sidearm slot at all? Personally, I don't really want a speed buff, just stamina (50-75% preferably). The Minmatar could probably use a bit more speed as an addition to its increased melee damage. Although, that is just my personal preference, as I run a Gal Scout and rarely rely on speed tanking over other means of survival. As I've said, I don't think the scout should lose a sidarm or a grenade. I don't really see the need for any kind of compromise here. Logis can complain, assaults can complain, I don't really care about people whining if they are wrong. I don't really give two ****s about what the forum thinks as long as the game is properly balanced and engaging. They can argue and complain all they want, that is no concern of mine, and if you care about this game or CCP cares about this game then I suggest you adopt the same attitude.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 728	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:48:00 - [325] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Personally, I don't really want a speed buff, just stamina (50-75% preferably). pfft... I dont care that much about a sprint speed buff.. I DO want a walk speed buff though. This would definitely not "break the game" due to speed limits.. but it would make the scout a whole lot more useful in many ways.
GLOBAL RAGE Consolidated Dust 11	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:51:00 - [326] - Quote I use my Dragonfly to snipe, and want my Toxin SMG.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 37	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:51:00 - [327] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: They can argue and complain all they want, that is no concern of mine, and if you care about this game or CCP cares about this game then I suggest you adopt the same attitude. nononono don't ever tell CCP to ignore community feedback they don't know what they're doing
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 645	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:55:00 - [328] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Personally, I don't really want a speed buff, just stamina (50-75% preferably). pfft... I dont care that much about a sprint speed buff.. I DO want a walk speed buff though. This would definitely not "break the game" due to speed limits.. but it would make the scout a whole lot more useful in many ways. How does sprint break it and not movement. Movement is how ppl strafe back and forth and look like the Flash when they are hacking objectives. In your blind spot No Quid Pro Quo Line in the Sand
Shutter Fly molon labe. Public Disorder. 179	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:11:00 - [329] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: They can argue and complain all they want, that is no concern of mine, and if you care about this game or CCP cares about this game then I suggest you adopt the same attitude. nononono don't ever tell CCP to ignore community feedback they don't know what they're doing Neither does the vocal majority of the forum community it seems, so... I guess we're screwed
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 728	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:24:00 - [330] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Personally, I don't really want a speed buff, just stamina (50-75% preferably). pfft... I dont care that much about a sprint speed buff.. I DO want a walk speed buff though. This would definitely not "break the game" due to speed limits.. but it would make the scout a whole lot more useful in many ways. How does sprint break it and not movement. CCP has explicitly said in the past, that there was a problem with people being alowed to move faster than 11m/s or something, because that breaks hit detection. Anything slower than that -- ie: walking -- does not "break the game". Your gripes about hyper-strafing, are not "breaking the game". Rather, it is an example of keyboard users exploiting bad coding. The problem there is simple bad game mechanics. Peple should not be allowed to jump from moving 5m/s west, immediately to moving 5m/s east, at the press of a keyboard key. There should be a mandatory transition period coded in of a few milliseconds, to emulate real-world physics, like most other things in the game. Please feel free to file a bug report about that :)

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2038	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:33:00 - [331] - Quote Been reading all of this over the last day or so and am frankly dismayed to see scouts themselves suggesting horrible "compromises". We don't deserve compromise in order to get the honestly tiny and long needed buffs we want. A second equipment slot added to our suits as they stand would not make them OP by a long shot. Everyone needs to keep in mind that all along we've all said scouts need to be viable without relying entirely on cloaks. There are many current useful fits and playstyles that would disappear if our sidearm slots are taken away and that would be terrible for the game. New suits and equipment are supposed to add diversity to this game, not reduce it! NO to any compromises! Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 729	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:35:00 - [332] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Been reading all of this over the last day or so and am frankly dismayed to see scouts themselves suggesting horrible "compromises". We don't deserve compromise in order to get the honestly tiny and long needed buffs we want. A second equipment slot added to our suits as they stand would not make them OP by a long shot. Everyone needs to keep in mind that all along we've all said scouts need to be viable without relying entirely on cloaks. There are many current useful fits and playstyles that would disappear if our sidearm slots are taken away and that would be terrible for the game. New suits and equipment are supposed to add diversity to this game, not reduce it! NO to any compromises! You seem to be suffering under the interesting illusion that we actually have any power to say "NO". It seems quite obvious that we're not going to get the pure addition. It seems also quite obvious that if we cant make up our collective minds on what we'd prefer to trade... then CCP will pick the trade for us.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 27	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:12:00 - [333] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Django Quik wrote: Been reading all of this over the last day or so and am frankly dismayed to see scouts themselves suggesting horrible "compromises". We don't deserve compromise in order to get the honestly tiny and long needed buffs we want. A second equipment slot added to our suits as they stand would not make them OP by a long shot. Everyone needs to keep in mind that all along we've all said scouts need to be viable without relying entirely on cloaks. There are many current useful fits and playstyles that would disappear if our sidearm slots are taken away and that would be terrible for the game. New suits and equipment are supposed to add diversity to this game, not reduce it! NO to any compromises! You seem to be suffering under the interesting illusion that we actually have any power to say "NO". It seems quite obvious that we're not going to get the pure addition. It seems also quite obvious that if we cant make up our collective minds on what we'd prefer to trade... then CCP will pick the trade for us. Maybe you're right, maybe it won't be so bad for scouts. CCP might actually give us more health than a drop uplink. Or hell, they might skip the middle man and just rename the scout class to CLOAK since that is what all scouts we be required to run to stay competitive w/ the predator logis. I just don't understand how anyone can think that the scout class will suddenly become op with the addition of an extra slot ( everyone is assuming that cloaks are godmode for some reason).
Onesimus Tarsus 818	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:16:00 - [334] - Quote GLOBAL RAGE wrote: I use my Dragonfly to snipe, and want my Toxin SMG. Ha! you want the scout to be able to do TWO things? Foolish scout. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 650	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:20:00 - [335] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Personally, I don't really want a speed buff, just stamina (50-75% preferably). pfft... I dont care that much about a sprint speed buff.. I DO want a walk speed buff though. This would definitely not "break the game" due to speed limits.. but it would make the scout a whole lot more useful in many ways. How does sprint break it and not movement. CCP has explicitly said in the past, that there was a problem with people being alowed to move faster than 11m/s or something, because that breaks hit detection. Anything slower than that -- ie: walking -- does not "break the game". Your gripes about hyper-strafing, are not "breaking the game". Rather, it is an example of keyboard users exploiting bad coding. The problem there is simple bad game mechanics. Peple should not be allowed to jump from moving 5m/s west, immediately to moving 5m/s east, at the press of a keyboard key. There should be a mandatory transition period coded in of a few milliseconds, to emulate real-world physics, like most other things in the game. Please feel free to file a bug report about that :) But you know those vehicles we have.... They all move faster than 11 m/s In your blind spot No Quid Pro Quo Line in the Sand
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 730	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:27:00 - [336] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: CCP has explicitly said in the past, that there was a problem with people being alowed to move faster than 11m/s or something, because that breaks hit detection. Anything slower than that -- ie: walking -- does not "break the game". ... But you know those vehicles we have.... They all move faster than 11 m/s A problem with PEOPLE moving that fast. As in, infantry. First of all, vehicles are bigger, therefore, bigger hitbox. So, harder to miss. Secondly, they may well have a different collision detection mechanism. Lastly... there may well be the same problems for vehicles. The thing is, it doesnt matter, if some anti-personel weapons miss them. They do almost no damage against vehicles. What matters, is the anti-vehicle weaponry. It seems reasonable to assume that the collission detection in that realm is handled differently.
KayDidYue Mercenaries On Duty 36	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:38:00 - [337] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: So here's a question... would you like a Caldari Scout skill that actually increased the precision of anyone caught within the passive radius even if there was NO UI FEEDBACK telling you the adjusted scan precision/profile values? I'd love to make the Caldari Scout a jammer suit, but without decent UI feedback it'd be more confusing than enjoyable. It has seemed to me that the dev's preferred the Caldari over other races. So this, to me, shows that my suspicions where correct. IMHO my Min's and Gal's are the ones that have been nerfed more than Caldari; and now, since most that want to run as a scout use the Gallente scout, we were extremely nerfed and are being hunted for bonuses. Just goes to show me, that we are the most abused and unwanted. Male or female, noob or pro, my SR is steady, and my trigger ready. Walk or run, if you're in my scope, you will die!
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 651	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:42:00 - [338] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: A problem with PEOPLE moving that fast. As in, infantry. First of all, vehicles are bigger, therefore, bigger hitbox. So, harder to miss. Secondly, they may well have a different collision detection mechanism. Lastly... there may well be the same problems for vehicles. The thing is, it doesnt matter, if some anti-personel weapons miss them. They do almost no damage against vehicles. What matters, is the anti-vehicle weaponry. It seems reasonable to assume that the collission detection in that realm is handled differently. I can accept that. Would love clarification / confirmation from CCP And then that prompt movement speed increase In your blind spot No Quid Pro Quo Line in the Sand
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1874	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:05:00 - [339] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: CCP has explicitly said in the past, that there was a problem with people being alowed to move faster than 11m/s or something, because that breaks hit detection. Anything slower than that -- ie: walking -- does not "break the game". ... But you know those vehicles we have.... They all move faster than 11 m/s A problem with PEOPLE moving that fast. As in, infantry. First of all, vehicles are bigger, therefore, bigger hitbox. So, harder to miss. Secondly, they may well have a different collision detection mechanism. Lastly... there may well be the same problems for vehicles. The thing is, it doesnt matter, if some anti-personel weapons miss them. They do almost no damage against vehicles. What matters, is the anti-vehicle weaponry. It seems reasonable to assume that the collission detection in that realm is handled differently. This is what I don't understand. We get speed for a tradeoff in eHP. The point of the speed and mobility is that we should be harder to hit, thus balancing the low eHP. Except now people don't want them to move faster. Why? CAUSE THEY GET HARDER TO HIT. ISN'T THAT THE FREAKING POINT!?!?!?! Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 732	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:25:00 - [340] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: This is what I don't understand. We get speed for a tradeoff in eHP. The point of the speed and mobility is that we should be harder to hit, thus balancing the low eHP. Except now people don't want them to move faster. Why? CAUSE THEY GET HARDER TO HIT. ISN'T THAT THE FREAKING POINT!?!?!?! there's a difference between, "that guy is moving so fast, it's difficult for me to keep my weapon pointed at him" vs "I have my weapon pointed at him, it's on target, but the hits arent registering". The former, is okay. The latter, is a game engine bug, and the issue at hand here.

mollerz Minja Scouts 1858	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:35:00 - [341] - Quote That argument fails when i hit vehicles and dropships as a scout running! Stop perpetuating that BS. It is absolutely a handicap for ****** players just like auto aim. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 733	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:42:00 - [342] - Quote mollerz wrote: That argument fails when i hit vehicles and dropships as a scout running! Stop perpetuating that BS. I dont think you read it carefully. What you just wrote, doesnt mesh with what I described. And even if it is BS -- it's what has been OFFICIALLY POSTED by a dev as the reason. No i dont have a convenient reference, but I have seen a blue-tagged post myself, directly stating this as the reason. Having infantry running faster than (some specific number) breaks hit detection. That is to say, hit detection BY WEAPONS. That's not the same thing as saying if you run really fast, you suddenly can run through walls. There are completely different mechanics involved. (although sometimes, it does also make you more likely to get stuck in scenery. But not neccesarily) If you find this difficult to belive or understand, and you'd really LIKE to understand, then go spend a few months learning 3D engine programming. If you cant be bothered, then take my word for it. Because I've done the months of work learning it. (and lemme tell you, UnrealEngine internals are... indeed quite unreal)
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 38	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:42:00 - [343] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Imagine this situation, one that is incredibly likely and often unavoidable. Two assault players are standing next to each other, they hear a decloak and a shotgun blast. The second blast finishes the first assault as he warns the 2nd it is a Gal Scout. Instead of attempting to immediately fight back, he started running after hearing the first shot, knowing that the adversary is much less effective at >5m and has no other means of attack. He then turns and collects his guaranteed kill as the scout turns to run after finishing the first adversary. Meaning sneaking up on just two adversaries cloaked with a shotgun would still leave the scout at a disadvantage. If the scout had a possibility of a sidearm, turning and running may have been suicide for the assault, as an SMG or ScP would have made quick work of him. The assault would have had to choose whether to run and predict the absence of a sidearm, or immediately fight back and rely on his skill and gun game. Giving the scout a sidearm makes the situation much more dynamic and rewarding of both intelligent and skillful play by both parties, which results in a much healthier and much more enjoyable game. And here's how the Scout avoids this problem. Two Assault players are standing next to each other. They hear a Shotgun blast, and one is dead already because the Scout aimed high. The other turns towards his partner as he falls, seeing the Scout already turning to take a shot at him. By the time he can think to back up, he's taken a hit, and his suit is heavily damaged. Because he's facing the Scout, any attempt to backpedal can be matched by the Scout, so the second shot finishes the job. The sound of multiple Shotgun blasts, and the sight of 2 dead teammates on the kill feed has drawn reinforcements towards the Scout, but as they approach, they hear a different sound. By the time they show up, there's no trace of the killer. That's assuming a shotgun headshot will ohk an assault, which at the current time isn't always the case. If we're assuming all Proto on both sides, it often isn't the case, as it is nearly impossible to get a FULL headshot with the shotgun. Since we can only consider what we currently know/have, then your proposed situation isn't necessarily viable, as Proto vs Proto means the shotgun would be 2HK or 3HK at best. I can OHK protosuits semi-regularly using a Militia Shotgun with no damage mods. If I don't OHK, either I missed (unlikely when hitting with the element of surprise on my side) or they're so close to death that I can go for the melee kill before turning to shoot the other guy. When I bring a real Shotgun or my Militia fit with damage mods, only Heavies and supertank Logis take more than one hit. I dont beleive that that is possible. Unless you have three damage mods, a shotgun does, at the most (at STD level) under 500 dmage with a 10% reduction to armor. considering that gallogis can have somewhere near 1000 armor, and close to 200 sheild, attacking them with a gun that does under 500 damage and one shotting them does not seem likely, unless they forgot to put any modules on their suit. In fact, I've run into basic gallente assaults that require >1 full headshot to kill, as they can easily fit 350+ armor in modules, not to mention a 200+ base. In general, it takes 2-3 shots to kill a proto semi tanked logi if all shots hit in optimal range. However, I dont doubt that you are good with a shotgun Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 38	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:48:00 - [344] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Well, if we're going to lose a side arm but gaining an extra equipment slot, wouldn't that mean our CPU/PG should get buffed? Surely more equipment would require more CPU and PG, right? It would make sense if we get buff to that as well if we're going this route. @Flutter Sh... err... Shutter Fly I can see what you mean that if you are cloaked then you already setup the advantage and should have a greater likelihood of killing both targets if none of them knew you were there due to the cloak. The loss in the ability to have two optimal ranges could also be a factor. In this case, perhaps a movement and sprint speed buff would be in order since scouts should be inherently faster to begin with. Unlike medium and heavy frames, we don't have that much stuff carrying around. Would you be ok with losing the sidearm slot if it meant being given a sufficient speed buff? If so, what would be the minimum buff you expect? If not, what other compensation would you work with? EDIT: or would you rather not lose the sidearm slot at all? And what of the Scouts who don't want to run cloaking devices? You dance for medium and heavy frame users, and hope they laugh too hard at seeing a scout without a cloak to kill you in less than a quarter second It provides them with excellent entertainment Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4336	Posted - 2014.01.14 21:56:00 - [345] - Quote You guys want some logic to go with that vehicle hitbox thing? There are two reasons why vehicle hitboxes work better at high speed: 1. Size - larger hitboxes are easier to track accurately within the gameworld. 2. Moving parts. A tank - the vehicle with the most moving parts, has only 3 semi-independent sections to its hitbox. The hull, the main turret, and the weapon barrel. A Dropsuit, on the other hand, consists of at least 11 independent moving entities. This is assuming the feet aren't flexible, and that both hands are bound to the weapon model and not tracked independently. In addition to all the extra moving parts, the range of movement is much greater on the dropsuit than a tank. The movements are also more constant AND faster, but ALL parts of the character model and hitbox have to remain together at all times.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 16	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:04:00 - [346] - Quote It matter not how fast a scout suit can run because if the stupid auto aim / aim assist doesn't lock them onto you, then the ridiculous mechanic of being shot will severely slow you down. On top of that you might get the sprinting bug that will NOT let you sprint what so ever. Honestly I hate the AA mechanic the most, then the silly being shot slowdown feature.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4336	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:07:00 - [347] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I dont beleive that that is possible. Unless you have three damage mods, a shotgun does, at the most (at STD level) under 500 dmage with a 10% reduction to armor. considering that gallogis can have somewhere near 1000 armor, and close to 200 sheild, attacking them with a gun that does under 500 damage and one shotting them does not seem likely, unless they forgot to put any modules on their suit. In fact, I've run into basic gallente assaults that require >1 full headshot to kill, as they can easily fit 350+ armor in modules, not to mention a 200+ base. In general, it takes 2-3 shots to kill a proto semi tanked logi if all shots hit in optimal range. However, I dont doubt that you are good with a shotgun We'd been talking about Assault suits at the time that comment came up. Which Assault suit is referred to as a "gallogi" again? And I said I can "semi-regularly" OHK protosuits. Also, pretty sure the 195% headshot damage can bring me a lot closer to 800 than 500 most of the time. Lastly, one of the failure conditions I specified was that the enemy suit was weakened badly enough that I could finish them with melee, which, so far, has usually been the case when I land a clean headshot.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 39	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:12:00 - [348] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: You guys want some logic to go with that vehicle hitbox thing? There are two reasons why vehicle hitboxes work better at high speed: 1. Size - larger hitboxes are easier to track accurately within the gameworld. 2. Moving parts. A tank - the vehicle with the most moving parts, has only 3 semi-independent sections to its hitbox. The hull, the main turret, and the weapon barrel. A Dropsuit, on the other hand, consists of at least 11 independent moving entities. This is assuming the feet aren't flexible, and that both hands are bound to the weapon model and not tracked independently. In addition to all the extra moving parts, the range of movement is much greater on the dropsuit than a tank. The movements are also more constant AND faster, but ALL parts of the character model and hitbox have to remain together at all times. Just a question--hasn't hit detection been greatly improved in addition to the addition of potent aim assist? With these two things, and the huge lack of armor/sheilds on a scout suit, it seems only right that scouts should have some form of marginal speed increase, especially minmatar scouts which are actually slower than gallente scouts at full speed. if you reread the OP ( all those text filled pages before this one), i suggested part of the minmitar bonus to be a 3% buff to movement and sprint speed per level. This may need to be nerfed down to 2%, however lets take a look at the numbers. Minmitar full speed-10.43 m/s Gallente full speed- 11.11 m/s After next patch, if my current minmitar bonus goes into effect- minmitar base speed-7.91x 1.05(biotics bonus)x1.15(minmitar racial bonus)x(1+(.12x2x1.05)) (kinetic catalyzers x2) this number comes out to be roughly 11.96 m/s (rounding up). This means that the minmitar scout, without any profile dampeners or stamina boosters, at maximum level skills, with a 3% (not 2%) bonus per level to movement/ sprint speed would be moving at under 12 m/s. I dont see this as game breaking, especially with aim assist. I only see it as an improvement to a class designed to speed tank, and that class finally given an improvement to this ability. Don't wory though- your rail rifles will still 2-3 shot us :P P.S. Just to show you guys what a 2% bonus to sprint speed per level would look like: 7.91x 1.05(biotics bonus)x1.1(minmitar racial bonus)x(1+(.12x2x1.05)) (kinetic catalyzers x2)=11.44 m/s, rounding up P.P.S all of the sprint numbers were calculated assuming that the bonuses stacked, i.e. they gave the maximum possible numbers for sprint speed for the minmitar scout Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2042	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:20:00 - [349] - Quote The whole too much speed thing was an old issue mostly back in Chromosome and earlier Uprising builds where hit detection was terrible. I see no reason why, now that hit detection has been (mostly) fixed (for most weapons), scouts can't have their high speed (both sprint and movement) back. And to the response to my previous anti-compromise post - what we need to do is not simply accept the suggestions that getting an extra equipment slot will make us OP and continue to argue our case for getting a proper buff without having to destroy many of the few playstyles that we've actually managed to be successful with while we've been so UP. I refuse to be cajoled into having to use a rifle because no other weapon type has the ammo and range to actually be useful as a lone weapon. NO COMPROMISES! Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1858	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:31:00 - [350] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: mollerz wrote: That argument fails when i hit vehicles and dropships as a scout running! Stop perpetuating that BS. I dont think you read it carefully. What you just wrote, doesnt mesh with what I described. And even if it is BS -- it's what has been OFFICIALLY POSTED by a dev as the reason. No i dont have a convenient reference, but I have seen a blue-tagged post myself, directly stating this as the reason. Having infantry running faster than (some specific number) breaks hit detection. That is to say, hit detection BY WEAPONS. That's not the same thing as saying if you run really fast, you suddenly can run through walls. There are completely different mechanics involved. (although sometimes, it does also make you more likely to get stuck in scenery. But not neccesarily) If you find this difficult to belive or understand, and you'd really LIKE to understand, then go spend a few months learning 3D engine programming. If you cant be bothered, then take my word for it. Because I've done the months of work learning it. (and lemme tell you, UnrealEngine internals are... indeed quite unreal) A DEv is just a coder. And well, bad coding is bad coding. We'll just leave that and move on. FYI- I am a game developer. I have an impending product, and an LLC. I spent the last three years learning blender, unity, and xcode. The reason I didn't consider using the unreal engine is their "cut" of your profits. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 39	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:34:00 - [351] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I dont beleive that that is possible. Unless you have three damage mods, a shotgun does, at the most (at STD level) under 500 dmage with a 10% reduction to armor. considering that gallogis can have somewhere near 1000 armor, and close to 200 sheild, attacking them with a gun that does under 500 damage and one shotting them does not seem likely, unless they forgot to put any modules on their suit. In fact, I've run into basic gallente assaults that require >1 full headshot to kill, as they can easily fit 350+ armor in modules, not to mention a 200+ base. In general, it takes 2-3 shots to kill a proto semi tanked logi if all shots hit in optimal range. However, I dont doubt that you are good with a shotgun We'd been talking about Assault suits at the time that comment came up. Which Assault suit is referred to as a "gallogi" again? And I said I can "semi-regularly" OHK protosuits. Also, pretty sure the 195% headshot damage can bring me a lot closer to 800 than 500 most of the time. Lastly, one of the failure conditions I specified was that the enemy suit was weakened badly enough that I could finish them with melee, which, so far, has usually been the case when I land a clean headshot. I apologize, I misread logi as assault. You have my condolences for any trauma my misinterpretation may have caused you. But, solely for the sake of this argument, i will attempt to analyse the effectiveness of a shotgun upon the future gallente assault gk.0 (racial bonus=5% per level to armor plate eficacy) low slots=4 high slots=3 ( however we will assume that these will be dedicated to damage mods, as any person who has put the time forth to level a suit to proto would know that shield extenders are nigh useless, and take up far too much cpu/ pg for what they give to the user) base armor=210*1.25(armor bonus)=262.5 base armor now for the armor mods. Now, I know most people, (if they are decent players) do not run >1 proto armor plate, due to the movement speed penalty, but instead choose to stack ADV plates, and keep very potent armor repairing nanohives on them. For the sake of the argument however, we will assume 1 proto reactive plate, 2 advanced basic plates, and 1 proto basic plate.this comes out to be--135+2(115)+60=425 ( if they knew how to tank themselves in a more logical manner, this number would be either 480 or 500, with a maximum of 540, however we will assume that the players who are in question do not know how potent armor hives are, and instead utilize repair plates) so, we are left with 425 armor bonus from plates. 425x1.1(armor plating level bonus)=467.5x1.25=584.375 armor from plating on a relatively poorly designed gallente assault suit. add this to 262.5 base, and you get a grand total of 846.875 armor (847, rounding up.) Now if we look at the current gallente assault armor, which is the assault in question, we simply take 467.5 armor and add it to the 262.5 base to give a grand total of 730 armor. Disclaimer: i don't know if the variable storage for armor and shield amounts is double or int, and also have no idea about rounding, however, these numbers and decimal roundings were based upon a C++ style of number value coding for double type variables Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
mollerz Minja Scouts 1858	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:38:00 - [352] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: You guys want some logic to go with that vehicle hitbox thing? There are two reasons why vehicle hitboxes work better at high speed: 1. Size - larger hitboxes are easier to track accurately within the gameworld. 2. Moving parts. A tank - the vehicle with the most moving parts, has only 3 semi-independent sections to its hitbox. The hull, the main turret, and the weapon barrel. A Dropsuit, on the other hand, consists of at least 11 independent moving entities. This is assuming the feet aren't flexible, and that both hands are bound to the weapon model and not tracked independently. In addition to all the extra moving parts, the range of movement is much greater on the dropsuit than a tank. The movements are also more constant AND faster, but ALL parts of the character model and hitbox have to remain together at all times. 1- Those are not technical hurdles. You just gave an example of crutching for mediocre players. Yes anyone could hit the side of the barn. Not everyone can hit a bird. 2- yea bad coding will do that. This is nothing more than a problem CCP has yet to fix. Or actually, probably has but we're just half way to a fix. The other half they didn't implement with hit detection optimization fixes is giving us our speed back. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 39	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:45:00 - [353] - Quote Man, i just spit out a ton of numbers. I hope you guys will read the two posts I made about speed and shotguns Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1221	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:46:00 - [354] - Quote Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:47:00 - [355] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: EDIT: REs are not viable in this situation, as the scout would have to decloak (making a noise), plant the RE (making another obvious noise), then back up and wait for it to arm, getting killed long before this is all complete. Grenades would result in the same situation, except having to stand and cook the grenade rather than waiting for arming time. RE's placed before you cloak in the path of a fall back position. The use of corners and cover. Contact grenade (you know the ones you don't have to cook). Looking at targets shield and armor vs the weapon you are using which leads to the should you move on to a different target or stalk them a bit till they are more vulnerable. Having the ability to pick your fights is a BIG advantage.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 29	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:55:00 - [356] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Man, i just spit out a ton of numbers. I hope you guys will read the two posts I made about speed and shotguns I liked it, but I still want to know what militia light frame he's using to stack damage mods.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 42	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:56:00 - [357] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Man, i just spit out a ton of numbers. I hope you guys will read the two posts I made about speed and shotguns I liked it, but I still want to know what militia light frame he's using to stack damage mods. I would also. It would be nice to have a super cheap suit that can one shot protos whenever i go into a pub and were getting stomped Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 29	Posted - 2014.01.14 22:57:00 - [358] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: EDIT: REs are not viable in this situation, as the scout would have to decloak (making a noise), plant the RE (making another obvious noise), then back up and wait for it to arm, getting killed long before this is all complete. Grenades would result in the same situation, except having to stand and cook the grenade rather than waiting for arming time. RE's placed before you cloak in the path of a fall back position. The use of corners and cover. Contact grenade (you know the ones you don't have to cook). Looking at targets shield and armor vs the weapon you are using which leads to the should you move on to a different target or stalk them a bit till they are more vulnerable. Having the ability to pick your fights is a BIG advantage. Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi b/c most scout suits will not have a profile dampening bonus. Heck, let's be real, a predator logi was stalking you the whole time.
voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:00:00 - [359] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms If you want to knife you should be in a minmatar scout suit and they will have your 2 weapon slots and 3 high slots. just as if a logi wants to hunt scouts and or be the best active scanner they will be in a gallente logi suit. logi and assaults stacking cpu and pg enhancers to use cloak is what I want them to do. I want them in cloak thinking they are all safe and invisible while i watch them move around on my radar because they have no dapmening
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 43	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:02:00 - [360] - Quote voidfaction wrote: OZAROW wrote: Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms If you want to knife you should be in a minmatar scout suit and they will have your 2 weapon slots and 3 high slots. just as if a logi wants to hunt scouts and or be the best active scanner they will be in a gallente logi suit. logi and assaults stacking cpu and pg enhancers to use cloak is what I want them to do. I want them in cloak thinking they are all safe and invisible while i watch them move around on my radar because they have no dapmening Read my OP about minmitar scouts, I suggested a great bonus idea instead of nova knife bonus Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/

voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:06:00 - [361] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: voidfaction wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: EDIT: REs are not viable in this situation, as the scout would have to decloak (making a noise), plant the RE (making another obvious noise), then back up and wait for it to arm, getting killed long before this is all complete. Grenades would result in the same situation, except having to stand and cook the grenade rather than waiting for arming time. RE's placed before you cloak in the path of a fall back position. The use of corners and cover. Contact grenade (you know the ones you don't have to cook). Looking at targets shield and armor vs the weapon you are using which leads to the should you move on to a different target or stalk them a bit till they are more vulnerable. Having the ability to pick your fights is a BIG advantage. Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi b/c most scout suits will not have a profile dampening bonus. Heck, let's be real, a predator logi was stalking you the whole time. im perfectly fine have 1 suit that -might- be able to scan me depending if im in super stealth suit or super scan suit. I believe in a counter and don't think I should be invisible to everything in the game. I suit counter out of 16 is not bad to me seems a little OP on my part to tell you the truth because I will be able to hide from even the proto gallente logi if i choose to.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 45	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:18:00 - [362] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: voidfaction wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: EDIT: REs are not viable in this situation, as the scout would have to decloak (making a noise), plant the RE (making another obvious noise), then back up and wait for it to arm, getting killed long before this is all complete. Grenades would result in the same situation, except having to stand and cook the grenade rather than waiting for arming time. RE's placed before you cloak in the path of a fall back position. The use of corners and cover. Contact grenade (you know the ones you don't have to cook). Looking at targets shield and armor vs the weapon you are using which leads to the should you move on to a different target or stalk them a bit till they are more vulnerable. Having the ability to pick your fights is a BIG advantage. Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi b/c most scout suits will not have a profile dampening bonus. Heck, let's be real, a predator logi was stalking you the whole time. im perfectly fine have 1 suit that -might- be able to scan me depending if im in super stealth suit or super scan suit. I believe in a counter and don't think I should be invisible to everything in the game. I suit counter out of 16 is not bad to me seems a little OP on my part to tell you the truth because I will be able to hide from even the proto gallente logi if i choose to. But what if that logi has a scan radius of 200 meters with his 16 db scanner and can scan the entire map, and keep it scanned? All scouts other than gallente will be still unable to dodge it, and gallentes will have to sacrifice all four of their low slots. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:36:00 - [363] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: voidfaction wrote: OZAROW wrote: Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms If you want to knife you should be in a minmatar scout suit and they will have your 2 weapon slots and 3 high slots. just as if a logi wants to hunt scouts and or be the best active scanner they will be in a gallente logi suit. logi and assaults stacking cpu and pg enhancers to use cloak is what I want them to do. I want them in cloak thinking they are all safe and invisible while i watch them move around on my radar because they have no dapmening Read my OP about minmitar scouts, I suggested a great bonus idea instead of nova knife bonus Anything would be better than the melee/NK bonus in my opinion. Melee should have a backstab bonus. It does in near every other game with a rogue/scout class. Would not want that power with my min scout sniper. Just the same on my gal scout i don't for the sake of balance want more precision because I have the longest range. Not saying I wouldn't take it
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 29	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:01:00 - [364] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: voidfaction wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: EDIT: REs are not viable in this situation, as the scout would have to decloak (making a noise), plant the RE (making another obvious noise), then back up and wait for it to arm, getting killed long before this is all complete. Grenades would result in the same situation, except having to stand and cook the grenade rather than waiting for arming time. RE's placed before you cloak in the path of a fall back position. The use of corners and cover. Contact grenade (you know the ones you don't have to cook). Looking at targets shield and armor vs the weapon you are using which leads to the should you move on to a different target or stalk them a bit till they are more vulnerable. Having the ability to pick your fights is a BIG advantage. Then you're scanned by a proto gal logi b/c most scout suits will not have a profile dampening bonus. Heck, let's be real, a predator logi was stalking you the whole time. im perfectly fine have 1 suit that -might- be able to scan me depending if im in super stealth suit or super scan suit. I believe in a counter and don't think I should be invisible to everything in the game. I suit counter out of 16 is not bad to me seems a little OP on my part to tell you the truth because I will be able to hide from even the proto gallente logi if i choose to. I don't mind that there is a counter for scouts, but I dislike the fact that the scout has to sacrifice all of it's low slots in order to avoid that counter (not all scouts will even be able to do so). Max Gal Logi/Best Scanner = Max Scout/1 complex profile dampener, the sp investment for profile dampeners should equal scanners (CCP could make it so that precision enhancement could improve scanning results).
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 46	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:04:00 - [365] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: voidfaction wrote: OZAROW wrote: Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms If you want to knife you should be in a minmatar scout suit and they will have your 2 weapon slots and 3 high slots. just as if a logi wants to hunt scouts and or be the best active scanner they will be in a gallente logi suit. logi and assaults stacking cpu and pg enhancers to use cloak is what I want them to do. I want them in cloak thinking they are all safe and invisible while i watch them move around on my radar because they have no dapmening Read my OP about minmitar scouts, I suggested a great bonus idea instead of nova knife bonus Anything would be better than the melee/NK bonus in my opinion. Melee should have a backstab bonus. It does in near every other game with a rogue/scout class. Would not want that power with my min scout sniper. Just the same on my gal scout i don't for the sake of balance want more precision because I have the longest range. Not saying I wouldn't take it So do you agree with my move/sprint speed and assassination bonus for the minmitar scout? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2694	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:33:00 - [366] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Remnant, no offense, but... My sidearm bro! I request y'all at CCP to cease desist attempts to remove sidearms from scouts. I have asked for the return of the B Series but this is too far! Do not replace the A series with the B series, that's like forced transgender surgery! Please do not take the fun out of the scout to make it "better". It is honestly, and conceded by medium frame users, the most fun suit. Please do not make the scout any less fun. It's the last pillar of reason I play dust. But.... aren't you guys still able to fit any sidearm weapon into the light slot? Back in 1.6, I was able to put together a dual-SMG fit. It's like a poor-man's mini-commando of sorts but fitting sidearms to light slots was possible. So far, the 1.7 patch notes hasn't changed that. You are misinformed. CCP remnant just stated that they are thinking about removing sidearms from the gallente scout, and not including one for the Amarr and Caldari. It's not that I can't fit 2 sidearms right now, it's that if Remnant's future comes true I would be reduced to a light weapon and there would be no point in fitting a sidearm in the place of a light weapon without another sidearm slot. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:41:00 - [367] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: voidfaction wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: voidfaction wrote: OZAROW wrote: Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms If you want to knife you should be in a minmatar scout suit and they will have your 2 weapon slots and 3 high slots. just as if a logi wants to hunt scouts and or be the best active scanner they will be in a gallente logi suit. logi and assaults stacking cpu and pg enhancers to use cloak is what I want them to do. I want them in cloak thinking they are all safe and invisible while i watch them move around on my radar because they have no dapmening Read my OP about minmitar scouts, I suggested a great bonus idea instead of nova knife bonus Anything would be better than the melee/NK bonus in my opinion. Melee should have a backstab bonus. It does in near every other game with a rogue/scout class. Would not want that power with my min scout sniper. Just the same on my gal scout i don't for the sake of balance want more precision because I have the longest range. Not saying I wouldn't take it So do you agree with my move/sprint speed and assassination bonus for the minmitar scout? yes and yes as long as it was NK/shotgun with no way to OHK a HP tanked heavy unless a head shot from the back. Would even want lower precision to help them find those eWAR gallente scouts. [edit] Proto Gallente Scout for life. bring on the respecs so I can fine tune my gallente scout for the 3rd time.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 735	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:40:00 - [368] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: .... (lots of stuff...) P.S. Just to show you guys what a 2% bonus to sprint speed per level would look like: 7.91x 1.05(biotics bonus)x1.1(minmitar racial bonus)x(1+(.12x2x1.05)) (kinetic catalyzers x2)=11.44 m/s, rounding up For the record, I'd STILL rather have a walk-speed increase for scouts, than a sprint speed increase. Why? - cant have a charged knife while sprinting - cloak gets all sparkly while sprinting - will finally be able to knife people who currently avoid it simply by WALKING BACKWARDS, Arrgg.... - shotgunners will like it for similar reasons
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 46	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:01:00 - [369] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: .... (lots of stuff...) P.S. Just to show you guys what a 2% bonus to sprint speed per level would look like: 7.91x 1.05(biotics bonus)x1.1(minmitar racial bonus)x(1+(.12x2x1.05)) (kinetic catalyzers x2)=11.44 m/s, rounding up For the record, I'd STILL rather have a walk-speed increase for scouts, than a sprint speed increase. Why? - cant have a charged knife while sprinting - cloak gets all sparkly while sprinting - will finally be able to knife people who currently avoid it simply by WALKING BACKWARDS, Arrgg.... - shotgunners will like it for similar reasons More than anything though, i would like strafing speed to be a function of sprinting speed, especially with this buff for the minmitar...also, i think i included movement speed as getting the bonus as well, i just did math to show that this bonus to sprint speed would not be game breaking Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 735	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:06:00 - [370] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: More than anything though, i would like strafing speed to be a function of sprinting speed, ick. I would vote the other way. first of all, because that would be insanely fast. Secondly, because its completely inconsistent. firing, breaks you out of sprint. So it makes no sense that strafing would be at sprint speed.

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6434	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:11:00 - [371] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) @Bojo From what I see here, CCP Remnant said they're removing the slot. No mention of removing the ability to fit a sidearm weapon from the light slot. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 46	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:17:00 - [372] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: More than anything though, i would like strafing speed to be a function of sprinting speed, ick. I would vote the other way. first of all, because that would be insanely fast. Secondly, because its completely inconsistent. firing, breaks you out of sprint. So it makes no sense that strafing would be at sprint speed. I never said that. I think that strafe speed should be a function of sprint speed, making kincats more useful for speed tanking. as a function of sprint speed, it would probably be sprint speed+movement speed divided by some constant, to make it more consistent between classes, but still more useful for sccouts that stack kincats Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 46	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:25:00 - [373] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) @Bojo From what I see here, CCP Remnant said they're removing the slot. No mention of removing the ability to fit a sidearm weapon from the light slot. Why would you fit a sidearm in a light weapon slot if weve got rail rifles? Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1221	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:08:00 - [374] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: voidfaction wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: voidfaction wrote: OZAROW wrote: Scouts do not have the tank to walk around with one weapon like a logistics does, nor do we have the ability to sacrifice hi slots for damage either, and not everyone is a amazing shotgun scout. It makes no sence that : if I want to knife I can't have a gun. Assaults an logistics with high amount of lows can an will stack CPU an pg enhancers to cloak and run two weapons with more base ehp than scouts and still have side arms If you want to knife you should be in a minmatar scout suit and they will have your 2 weapon slots and 3 high slots. just as if a logi wants to hunt scouts and or be the best active scanner they will be in a gallente logi suit. logi and assaults stacking cpu and pg enhancers to use cloak is what I want them to do. I want them in cloak thinking they are all safe and invisible while i watch them move around on my radar because they have no dapmening Read my OP about minmitar scouts, I suggested a great bonus idea instead of nova knife bonus Anything would be better than the melee/NK bonus in my opinion. Melee should have a backstab bonus. It does in near every other game with a rogue/scout class. Would not want that power with my min scout sniper. Just the same on my gal scout i don't for the sake of balance want more precision because I have the longest range. Not saying I wouldn't take it So do you agree with my move/sprint speed and assassination bonus for the minmitar scout? If its 5% and 3% per level then YE sure since that equals the knife bonus with 15% to speed but that's 11.93 sprint speed which is friggen AWESOME! But I see a lot of future kittens taking a **** on the idea saying were way too fast, an guys getting a lot of kills, but personally I think that's what minmatar scouts should be, cuz really if you cook a flux an have aim they ll die just as fast as now plus, with crap CPU an pg I think they ll finally be removed as the most u.p. suit in the game if they make it so you can actually fit two proto weapons an mod after the buff SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1221	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:13:00 - [375] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) @Bojo From what I see here, CCP Remnant said they're removing the slot. No mention of removing the ability to fit a sidearm weapon from the light slot. Why would you fit a sidearm in a light weapon slot if weve got a light weapon slot available? Knives, pistols,smgs- most scout viewed rifles as easy mode so most of our sp is in sidearms, I have proficiency 4/5 in all side arms SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 47	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:14:00 - [376] - Quote OZAROW wrote: So do you agree with my move/sprint speed and assassination bonus for the minmitar scout? If its 5% and 3% per level then YE sure since that equals the knife bonus with 15% to speed but that's 11.93 sprint speed which is friggen AWESOME! But I see a lot of future kittens taking a **** on the idea saying were way too fast, an guys getting a lot of kills, but personally I think that's what minmatar scouts should be, cuz really if you cook a flux an have aim they ll die just as fast as now plus, with crap CPU an pg I think they ll finally be removed as the most u.p. suit in the game if they make it so you can actually fit two proto weapons an mod after the buff[/quote] Glad you agree!!! I cant take the claim for the assassination damage bonus idea though. That was someone elses idea. Also, the assassination may indirectly help alleviate pub protostomping, as all it takes is 1 well placed shotgun blast from a min scout in the back and a few SMG bullets to cost someone 200k isk Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 47	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:15:00 - [377] - Quote Also if you agree, keep bumping this thread and what you agree with in my OP, so that eventually we may get some CCP feedback on something other than the caldari scout Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6436	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:30:00 - [378] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) @Bojo From what I see here, CCP Remnant said they're removing the slot. No mention of removing the ability to fit a sidearm weapon from the light slot. Why would you fit a sidearm in a light weapon slot if weve got a light weapon slot available? Knives, pistols,smgs- most scout viewed rifles as easy mode so most of our sp is in sidearms, I have proficiency 4/5 in all side arms Some people are just better with a sidearm than with a light weapon. Give me an AR or a SG and I will guarantee that I won't be able to hit the broad side of a barn. But give me either just a knife or just an SMG and I will promise you that bodies will hit the floor... as soon as I can afford a replacement PS3. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 38	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:32:00 - [379] - Quote Ehh but I don't really. I just agree that Scouts, as discussed (particularly by CCP Remnant) are getting the shaft because cloaks aren't that interesting and we still need an extra equipment slot as it is right now, nevermind what we deserve after everybody else in 1.8 gets whatever buffs.
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1221	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:33:00 - [380] - Quote It's really not a good idea to have only a light weapon on a scout an any scout thinking it is , is crazy cuz if I see a logi I get em when their reloading, scouts don't have time to reload, our style is built on switching weapons, dual smgs, dual pistols, CR SMG, you name it, sg smg, most of us dump a clip for shields, switch for armor, with a pistol on shields an smg for armor, or a smg an switch to a sg, see the whole trick as a scout is to make stupid mercs chase you when your pistols out, you hide behind a box with knives or a shot gun, it's a lure an trap. If you take that extra slot, you will just get smoked from range, it will be so infuriating, you lose 90% of your edge cuz you can't SUPRISE them! You ll constantly be forced to run if ever seen an die by getting shot in the back out of your range constantly! And it's not right to make new scouts and old scouts forced into this just cuz of cloaks some of us won't run all the time, either make A/B style suits Or make the side arm not work when the cloak is engaged ( on all suits) or unable to equip a side an cloak at the same time SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6437	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:37:00 - [381] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Or make the side arm not work when the cloak is engaged ( on all suits) or unable to equip a side an cloak at the same time That doesn't sound too bad. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2700	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:42:00 - [382] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) @Bojo From what I see here, CCP Remnant said they're removing the slot. No mention of removing the ability to fit a sidearm weapon from the light slot. I understand that, that is what I was angry about. You shouldn't have taken me literally when I said removing the sidearm from scouts. I'm angry that I can't carry two sidearms or a light weapon and sidearm. How are you OK with this? The Type II scout was better as a different scout, not the scout. They're planning on taking away a sidearm slot and that's just going to make the scout so much less fun for me. Playing paper logi is just not appealing and if they take away scout sidearm no suit will fulfill my desires. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1221	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:03:00 - [383] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: OZAROW wrote: Or make the side arm not work when the cloak is engaged ( on all suits) or unable to equip a side an cloak at the same time That doesn't sound too bad. Removing it entirely gimps the suit, enemies need to fear a scout when they see one cuz they don't know his build is, if they know we only have one weapon all thetime were forced to use rifles or get killed from range cuz all we have are knives or a shotgun, and they know that, logis don't run solo with shotguns why would scouts, it's dumb! It ll change play styles for the worst, assaults will go RR scout get it nerfed so bad then never play it again an scouts will get stuck with it! Calling it now. I never leave the merc pad without two weapons, and if they do do this a full respec is in order, 4 sidearms with pro 4 will be wasted it will change every scouts play style an that's bad business ccp SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Faunher Ivory Vanguard 73	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:11:00 - [384] - Quote In my opinion, scouts should not have weapon or module specific bonuses, as the only thing that this accomplishes is limiting fitting creativity. Scout bonuses should be more along the lines of speed/stamina and scan profile reduction/scan radius. And also, let's be realistic, scout snipers are not a problem. They can be killed easily. The real problem are those ******* heavy mcc snipers.
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 125	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:39:00 - [385] - Quote If I have a shotgun on my scout I run around with the sidearm (SMG or scrambler). Two reasons. Shotguns are very situational, short range and best used when you surprise them not when surprised. I also don't want to tell them I have a shotgun until I'm ready to fire it. If someone sees a shotgun they back pedal. =][= Logi's are supposed to work in a group, supporting others and have plenty of equipment to make up for only having a single weapon choice is hives for extra ammo, armour and REs to give other combat options (I carry two sets of REs on one of my Logi's) Scouts normally operate alone or at best flanking a squad. Typically other team mates will give away their position. Scouts need to think tactically about what weapons they carry to cover as many scenarios as possible as they typically don't have someone else to draw on in a lot of situations. For large outdoor scenarios I have a mini scout with AR, scrambler and uplinks. Indoors shotgun, SMG and REs. Against a heavy I will use up the AR and need to use the scrambler to finish them off. Single weapon only best use would be Russian roulette. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 168	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:54:00 - [386] - Quote Caldari: role bonus: 15% bonus to PG/CPU cost of cloak field per level. caldari scout bonus:- 12 % bonus to Scan Profile Gallente: role bonus: 15% bonus to PG/CPU cost of cloak field per level. gallente scout bonus: 5% bonus to scan precision,10% bonus to scan range Minmatar: role bonus: 15% bonus to PG/CPU cost of cloak field per level. minmatar scout bonus: 5% to nova knife damage, Amarr: role bonus: 15% bonus to PG/CPU cost of cloak field per level. Amarr scout bonus: 2 to Armor Repair Rate per level
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2046	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:56:00 - [387] - Quote Anyone that thinks it's fine to take away a scout's sidearm slot for an equipment slot should ask themselves these questions: 1) What weapons can realistically be used without a sidearm as back up? Or better, what weapons can not? Answer: Weapons that can not be used on their own - Mass driver - too little ammo Sniper - too little ammo, long range only Pistol - too little ammo Shotgun - too little ammo, short range only Knives - short range only Swarms - AV only So this basically leaves us with using either rifles or SMG. Cheers for all the options and playstyles. 2) A logi loses a sidearm but gains massive HP, slots and loads of equipment slots. Taking away a scout's sidearm to give us just 2 equipment slots just makes us a really crappy logi with the ability to fit cloaks (which logis will probably be able to do anyway. Now take into account the fact that scouts will not always want to use a cloak, in those situations, what could a scout possibly do that any logi couldn't do just as well, if not better with all their mod and equipment slots? At the moment scouts have a lot of diversity and a decent range of fittings and playstyles - it sounds more and more like everyone else wants the cloak to the be the be all end all of scout suits and this is something we have expressly argued against ever since the idea of the cloak came up all those many many months ago. We need to be viable without cloaks. If you take away our sidearms, that is simply impossible. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4337	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:43:00 - [388] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Weapons that can not be used on their own - Mass driver - too little ammo Sniper - too little ammo, long range only Pistol - too little ammo Shotgun - too little ammo, short range only Knives - short range only Swarms - AV only I use Shotguns on their own on several fittings, and have a Swarm Logi fitting with no sidearm slot available. Swarms become reliant on squadmates when you don't have a sidearm, but they can be used on their own.
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1224	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:57:00 - [389] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Django Quik wrote: Weapons that can not be used on their own - Mass driver - too little ammo Sniper - too little ammo, long range only Pistol - too little ammo Shotgun - too little ammo, short range only Knives - short range only Swarms - AV only I use Shotguns on their own on several fittings, and have a Swarm Logi fitting with no sidearm slot available. Swarms become reliant on squadmates when you don't have a sidearm, but they can be used on their own. Does that logi have under 350 HP ? Does that logi run solo? It's a stupid idea to take scouts gun for a mod that we're forced to spend money on, keep the equip I want my gun, I have a adv logi I use as a suitcase, an I hate that it has no gun so I use it at a depot then switch back, so why would any of us trade our gun when we can buy a basic logi an speed tank it instead of settling for a screwed up scout? SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
voidfaction Void of Faction 95	Posted - 2014.01.15 13:31:00 - [390] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Anyone that thinks it's fine to take away a scout's sidearm slot for an equipment slot should ask themselves these questions: 1) What weapons can realistically be used without a sidearm as back up? Or better, what weapons can not? Answer: Weapons that can not be used on their own - Mass driver - too little ammo Sniper - too little ammo, long range only Pistol - too little ammo Shotgun - too little ammo, short range only Knives - short range only Swarms - AV only So this basically leaves us with using either rifles or SMG. Cheers for all the options and playstyles. 2) A logi loses a sidearm but gains massive HP, slots and loads of equipment slots. Taking away a scout's sidearm to give us just 2 equipment slots just makes us a really crappy logi with the ability to fit cloaks (which logis will probably be able to do anyway. Now take into account the fact that scouts will not always want to use a cloak, in those situations, what could a scout possibly do that any logi couldn't do just as well, if not better with all their mod and equipment slots? At the moment scouts have a lot of diversity and a decent range of fittings and playstyles - it sounds more and more like everyone else wants the cloak to the be the be all end all of scout suits and this is something we have expressly argued against ever since the idea of the cloak came up all those many many months ago. We need to be viable without cloaks. If you take away our sidearms, that is simply impossible. with 2 eq slots you can use nanohives. sniper, swarms, and knives work best with the minmatar scout with its 3 highs for dmg and a sidearm slot. mass driver to me is more of a squad support weapon used with a squad. pistol and shotgun has potential to be lethal combined with cloaking and dampening.

Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 738	Posted - 2014.01.15 15:12:00 - [391] - Quote Minor correction for you: Django Quik wrote: 1) What weapons can realistically be used without a sidearm as back up? Or better, what weapons can not? ... Pistol - too little ammo unless you skill it up to proto level. Then all scrambler pistols get 11 bullets. Fairly decent. But generally speaking, yeah too little ammo to use as primary.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2052	Posted - 2014.01.15 18:39:00 - [392] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Minor correction for you: Django Quik wrote: 1) What weapons can realistically be used without a sidearm as back up? Or better, what weapons can not? ... Pistol - too little ammo unless you skill it up to proto level. Then all scrambler pistols get 11 bullets. Fairly decent. But generally speaking, yeah too little ammo to use as primary. You get more in the clip but still only get the bog standard total ammo unless you skill up ammo capacity too. As a diehard long term pistoleer, I can certainly say that having no back up to the pistol will result in a weaponless scout if you're actually good enough to stay alive for more than 5 minutes. And for anyone advocating that we'll be fine if we have only one weapon because we can run with squads - running with squads is counter to everything the scout stands for; it makes your profile bonus and cloak completely irrelevant. If I wanted to be a logi, I'll skill into logi suits; I want to be a scout, so don't try to make become a logi. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 281	Posted - 2014.01.15 18:47:00 - [393] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Minor correction for you: Django Quik wrote: 1) What weapons can realistically be used without a sidearm as back up? Or better, what weapons can not? ... Pistol - too little ammo unless you skill it up to proto level. Then all scrambler pistols get 11 bullets. Fairly decent. But generally speaking, yeah too little ammo to use as primary. You get more in the clip but still only get the bog standard total ammo unless you skill up ammo capacity too. As a diehard long term pistoleer, I can certainly say that having no back up to the pistol will result in a weaponless scout if you're actually good enough to stay alive for more than 5 minutes. And for anyone advocating that we'll be fine if we have only one weapon because we can run with squads - running with squads is counter to everything the scout stands for; it makes your profile bonus and cloak completely irrelevant. If I wanted to be a logi, I'll skill into logi suits; I want to be a scout, so don't try to make become a logi. Preach it, Django!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 47	Posted - 2014.01.15 20:05:00 - [394] - Quote If we got a bonus of around 20-30 cpu and 5-8 pg and an additional equipment slot, free of charge, it would go a long way to helping scouts, not to mention the bonuses I described in the OP Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 135	Posted - 2014.01.15 22:45:00 - [395] - Quote Shotguns have plenty of ammo, its the range and everyone running when they see it. Last night I got five kills from my first clip on Venerable Phage. Then I went out and did scouty things like destroying uplinks. Finished 6/5 350... 8 uplinks, 2 hives. I don't see a scout as a slayer role. They are best used to get battlefield intelligence and break the momentum of the reds. Mind you a scanner does better at intelligence and a heavy-logi combo is better at breaking a frontal assault. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 29	Posted - 2014.01.15 23:24:00 - [396] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Django Quik wrote: Weapons that can not be used on their own - Mass driver - too little ammo Sniper - too little ammo, long range only Pistol - too little ammo Shotgun - too little ammo, short range only Knives - short range only Swarms - AV only I use Shotguns on their own on several fittings, and have a Swarm Logi fitting with no sidearm slot available. Swarms become reliant on squadmates when you don't have a sidearm, but they can be used on their own. It's a combination of little ammo and how many shots you have in a clip. 8 shots for the shotgun (2 for the breach) is not a lot especially when you turn a corner and 4 guys are staring back at you. Heck, even when none of them are looking your way you still will probably not have enough shots to kill them all (will be worse with the upcoming health buffs/resistances). I could equip nova knives on a heavy and do moderately well, does that make it viable for everyone?
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 29	Posted - 2014.01.15 23:30:00 - [397] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Shotguns have plenty of ammo, its the range and everyone running when they see it. Last night I got five kills from my first clip on Venerable Phage. Then I went out and did scouty things like destroying uplinks. Finished 6/5 350... 8 uplinks, 2 hives. I don't see a scout as a slayer role. They are best used to get battlefield intelligence and break the momentum of the reds. Mind you a scanner does better at intelligence and a heavy-logi combo is better at breaking a frontal assault. Why shouldn't I be able to do both? If I can sneak behind the enemy team, why shouldn't I be allowed to kill them all (8 shots will not be enough if I'm engaging several people at once)?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 48	Posted - 2014.01.15 23:37:00 - [398] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Shotguns have plenty of ammo, its the range and everyone running when they see it. Last night I got five kills from my first clip on Venerable Phage. Then I went out and did scouty things like destroying uplinks. Finished 6/5 350... 8 uplinks, 2 hives. I don't see a scout as a slayer role. They are best used to get battlefield intelligence and break the momentum of the reds. Mind you a scanner does better at intelligence and a heavy-logi combo is better at breaking a frontal assault. They should be a slayer 1 on 1 if they get the drop upon unsuspecting mercenaries from behind or flanking from the sides. But no, they should not be slayers like logis are now, and like assaults will be next patch Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 57	Posted - 2014.01.17 01:10:00 - [399] - Quote As this thread has left page one, and I think the majority of discussion is done, i will present to you a compilation of my efforts in determining the communities opinions on Scout bonuses, and possible alternatives Role bonus: Currently 10% reduction to Cpu and Pg usage of cloaks per level Proposed: Keep the 5% profile dampening bonus, increase the bonus, and add it on in addition to profile dampening C bonus- Currently: 5% reduction to cloak drain per level Suggested: +5% to enemy scan precision (affects active scanners) to enemies within dropsuit scan radius, may keep cloaking bonus G bonus- Currently: 5% to profile dampening, 5% to scan radius Suggested: 10% to scan radius, 5% to scan precision per level M bonus: Currently: 5% damage to nova knives Suggested: 3% bonus to movement/sprint speed, and 5% back/sides damage bonus or 5% hacking speed (preferably the bonus to damage dealt from behind/side, so the nova knife remains relevant, but also opens up versatility) Also, for any questions about this bonus, it only applies within under 10 or 15 meters from the target. A bonus: Currently: 5% to cloak cooldown reduction speed per level Suggested: 10% bonus to maximum stamina/ stamina regeneration rate, may keep cloaking bonus. If you have any questions why these are my final candidates for bonuses, feel free to ask! Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 661	Posted - 2014.01.17 01:56:00 - [400] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: As this thread has left page one, and I think the majority of discussion is done, i will present to you a compilation of my efforts in determining the communities opinions on Scout bonuses, and possible alternatives Role bonus: Currently 10% reduction to Cpu and Pg usage of cloaks per level Proposed: Keep the 5% profile dampening bonus, increase the bonus, and add it on in addition to profile dampening C bonus- Currently: 5% reduction to cloak drain per level Suggested: +5% to enemy scan precision (affects active scanners) to enemies within dropsuit scan radius, may keep cloaking bonus G bonus- Currently: 5% to profile dampening, 5% to scan radius Suggested: 10% to scan radius, 5% to scan precision per level M bonus: Currently: 5% damage to nova knives Suggested: 3% bonus to movement/sprint speed, and 5% back/sides damage bonus or 5% hacking speed (preferably the bonus to damage dealt from behind/side, so the nova knife remains relevant, but also opens up versatility) Also, for any questions about this bonus, it only applies within under 10 or 15 meters from the target. A bonus: Currently: 5% to cloak cooldown reduction speed per level Suggested: 10% bonus to maximum stamina/ stamina regeneration rate, may keep cloaking bonus. If you have any questions why these are my final candidates for bonuses, feel free to ask! Eh, I can take 'em or leave 'em either way. Only thing that concerns me is the FACT that there will be something done to the scouts in the first place. Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 62	Posted - 2014.01.17 01:58:00 - [401] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: As this thread has left page one, and I think the majority of discussion is done, i will present to you a compilation of my efforts in determining the communities opinions on Scout bonuses, and possible alternatives Role bonus: Currently 10% reduction to Cpu and Pg usage of cloaks per level Proposed: Keep the 5% profile dampening bonus, increase the bonus, and add it on in addition to profile dampening C bonus- Currently: 5% reduction to cloak drain per level Suggested: +5% to enemy scan precision (affects active scanners) to enemies within dropsuit scan radius, may keep cloaking bonus G bonus- Currently: 5% to profile dampening, 5% to scan radius Suggested: 10% to scan radius, 5% to scan precision per level M bonus: Currently: 5% damage to nova knives Suggested: 3% bonus to movement/sprint speed, and 5% back/sides damage bonus or 5% hacking speed (preferably the bonus to damage dealt from behind/side, so the nova knife remains relevant, but also opens up versatility) Also, for any questions about this bonus, it only applies within under 10 or 15 meters from the target. A bonus: Currently: 5% to cloak cooldown reduction speed per level Suggested: 10% bonus to maximum stamina/ stamina regeneration rate, may keep cloaking bonus. If you have any questions why these are my final candidates for bonuses, feel free to ask! Eh, I can take 'em or leave 'em either way. Only thing that concerns me is the FACT that there will be something done to the scouts in the first place. Agreed, but while they are doing something to scouts, why not see them do something for the better, rather than reduce us to uselessness Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 661	Posted - 2014.01.17 03:44:00 - [402] - Quote [quote=Gavr1lo Pr1nc1pAgreed, but while they are doing something to scouts, why not see them do something for the better, rather than reduce us to uselessness [/quote] U got a point there. Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 62	Posted - 2014.01.17 03:47:00 - [403] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: [quote=Gavr1lo Pr1nc1pAgreed, but while they are doing something to scouts, why not see them do something for the better, rather than reduce us to uselessness U got a point there. [/quote] Thanks! Also, i made a new thread about the final deccisions I had regarding scout buffs to make them viable for use https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1729861#post1729861 check it out right here Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
Grief PK Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 90	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:28:00 - [404] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: hgghyujh wrote: im okay with it, how ever I would like to see other light frame variants for hacking, assassination and battlefield intel. that said current iterations need two equipment slots more then ever and the pg/cpu buff to go with it. Done and done. Though, you're gonna be losing a sidearm slot. (Also, I think people are gonna faint when they see the PG/CPU costs of cloak fields; Scouts'll be alright though) Pardon? So no more NK/MD fits huh? cries a little Well, the thinking was to give the second EQP slot to GA, CA, AM suits and leave the Minmatar with one EQP slot and its sidearm. Still debating that one though. ^this gives me heart burn. Please CCP ... you were on such a good track ... Just add the EQP slot and consider it a reasonable buff and leave it at that.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 271	Posted - 2014.02.05 07:29:00 - [405] - Quote Adding simple input again. I would be rather sad to see my plasma cannon sitting on a wall-mount due to losing a sidearm slot. Cause my pistol will re-purpose the light weapon slots on all suits...Hopefully just give the scouts another equipment slot and keep the weapon fittings the same. They already hurt enough without being able to carry a second weapon. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication


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