DUST Search - To all scouts out there unsatisfied with the new bonuses...

Absoliav wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

I respectfully disagree with you about the cal bonus beign terrible. it might need to be toned down (say 3%), but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers, and as the sniper rifle is caldari tech, it seems only reasonable in my opinion. In addition to this, snipers now are generally not very powerful, unless equipped with 2+ proto damage mods. If scout cpu and pg stay about the same, this would be very difficult to fit in addition to a powerful sniper rifle, without compromising profile dampening capaabilities. I do see what you are saying though.

No, "they" are Scouts, any suit frame can snipe with roughly the same strengths as an other, Scouts were meant to do as their name implies, that's why they are harder to detect and move faster than other suits. The bonus isn't very fair no matter how you look at it, if it's 5% you can easily stack that with weapon's proficiency and with some complex mods, which won't be that hard for the Cal scout since Cal suits have the highest CPU score and the most high slots of all the races. And if it's 3% it makes the Cal commando pointless since he already has a bonus for rail weapons at 2% per level, also Scouts have bonuses for stealth at close range, which reduces the value using a sniper only suit, the current bonus for the Cal vastly exceeds worth compared to what you propose as it covers more possible scenarios while the damage bonus only covers one highly limited playstyle.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4551	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:14:00 - [31] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though then how about caldaari get the knife bonus and the minmatar get the hacking bonus Why would that be? Because the nova knife is a Caldari weapon. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:18:00 - [32] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quote: Scouting means collecting valuable intel to provide to a team. Honestly, it would be so much better if we could keep the "Scout" role focused on infiltration and intel gathering and then release a new specialization off of the light frame called "Marksman" which is more suited for long range combat. this can be argued (and i dont want to start a huge argument on here), but several snipers are useful for gathering intel, such as whereabouts of enemies, vehicles, etc. But if the caldari do get said bonus, i think it would also indirectly solve the redline sniper problem, at least to some extent, as it allows for uncompromised mobility, in addition to high damage. Just my thoughts Also, im not sure if you guys can tell, but im rather lacking in the likes department? Anyone wanna be my first like? wink wink I gave you your second like, I tried to be the first. I agree, sniping can be a great way to scout, but currently, nothing in the game supports long range scouting other than a weapon with a scope, Scout suits have a great deal of bonuses that support stealth at closer ranges, now we know the Cal don't enjoy those kind of ideas, but sadly there is nothing that can change that currently to support long range stealth as it defeats the point of having a lower profile if you're going to be too far way for it to be relevant, which is way heavier frames are more commonly used as snipers, more health, more damage, more equipment, more mods and less hassle.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 2	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:18:00 - [33] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: I respectfully disagree with you about the cal bonus beign terrible. it might need to be toned down (say 3%), but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers, and as the sniper rifle is caldari tech, it seems only reasonable in my opinion. In addition to this, snipers now are generally not very powerful, unless equipped with 2+ proto damage mods. If scout cpu and pg stay about the same, this would be very difficult to fit in addition to a powerful sniper rifle, without compromising profile dampening capaabilities. I do see what you are saying though. No, "they" are Scouts, any suit frame can snipe with roughly the same strengths as an other, Scouts were meant to do as their name implies, that's why they are harder to detect and move faster than other suits. The bonus isn't very fair no matter how you look at it, if it's 5% you can easily stack that with weapon's proficiency and with some complex mods, which won't be that hard for the Cal scout since Cal suits have the highest CPU score and the most high slots of all the races. And if it's 3% it makes the Cal commando pointless since he already has a bonus for rail weapons at 2% per level, also Scouts have bonuses for stealth at close range, which reduces the value using a sniper only suit, the current bonus for the Cal vastly exceeds worth compared to what you propose as it covers more possible scenarios while the damage bonus only covers one highly limited playstyle. Thats a very logical argument, but i disagree. With this bonus, I feel that the two different sniper niches used in the game would be more pronounced. With the commando, the large health bonus makes it difficult to be countersniped, even if the enemy does find you. With the caldari scout (if my suggested bonus is implemented) you have an entirely different sniper playstyle, as you have to constantly stay mobile, but in exchange for that you get slightly more firepower than the commando ( 5% comparing the two suits at proto level). I would really like some dev feedback on their opinions here. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 2	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:24:00 - [34] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: knight guard fury wrote: why not let caldari handle that since they are the high tech and advanced people and stuff If you look at minimitar suits, they have increased hacking speeds over other races, just like they also have less health and more speed. It would be nice if all scouts got at least some hacking bonus though then how about caldaari get the knife bonus and the minmatar get the hacking bonus Why would that be? Because the nova knife is a Caldari weapon. Good point, but i think the reason that this hasnt been implemented is because the nova knife is generally deeply ingrained into the "minja" playstyle. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 801	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:27:00 - [35] - Quote i made a logical thread in feedback/suggestions about changing the bonuses of all suits and thier slot layout come check it out feedback/suggestions for slot layout and bonuses In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:33:00 - [36] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i made a logical thread in feedback/suggestions about changing the bonuses of all suits and thier slot layout come check it out feedback/suggestions for slot layout and bonuses I liked it other than 1. The nova knive bonus went to Caldari and 2. I personally thought ccp's assault bonuses were fine, as i predict a massive nerf to all non specialist weapons (i.e. rifles) due to them outclassing most specialist weapons, even in the specialist weapons designed niche. Probably a 15+% nerf to all constant damage weapons Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 802	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:43:00 - [37] - Quote the RoF bonus would be insane and we dont need bonuses to RoF ever since that would decrease TTK In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 05:48:00 - [38] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Thats a very logical argument, but i disagree. With this bonus, I feel that the two different sniper niches used in the game would be more pronounced. With the commando, the large health bonus makes it difficult to be countersniped, even if the enemy does find you. With the caldari scout (if my suggested bonus is implemented) you have an entirely different sniper playstyle, as you have to constantly stay mobile, but in exchange for that you get slightly more firepower than the commando ( 5% comparing the two suits at proto level). I would really like some dev feedback on their opinions here. The reason Commandos are being given such limited bonuses is cause as CCP puts it, they are an extremely specialized role and should be given more perks to help fill in that niche, the current idea for the Cal scout helps them far more then just a damage bonus for several reasons, but the big one right now is weapons, shotguns, plasma cannons, swarm launchers, sniper rifles, nova knives and scrambler rifles and all associated playstyles benefit from the bonus, while a 5% bonus to sniper rifles only helps the sniper rifle. Now I understand your point an having different sniping fit with Commandos and Scouts, but the only reason Commandos will be balanced with all the extra damage they can do is cause they have very little to work with in terms of versatility cause of their number of slots and the amount of CPU/PG, which is the sacrifice they make to have two L-slots and equpment on a heavy frame, that's what balance the role out. Your idea just gives more damage to a suit that will already be fitted to do more damage from the start, there also wouldn't be a need for any other type of sniper but a Cal, which would be the same issue we had with Cal-Logi-Slayers, we do not need a repeat of that.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 79	Posted - 2014.01.09 06:07:00 - [39] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: but scouts were originally supposed to be snipers Scouting means collecting valuable intel to provide to a team. Honestly, it would be so much better if we could keep the "Scout" role focused on infiltration and intel gathering and then release a new specialization off of the light frame called "Marksman" which is more suited for long range combat. Scouts are marksmen and snipers, their job/role is to scout ahead and report back battlefield commanders overall enemy strength(#'s, equipment, and readiness), when the main force moves they hang back and continue to serve as the commanders eyes while picking off any targets of opportunity they do all that from behind a scope of a sniper rifle or DMR. The infiltration part comes in because usually they have to sneak in behind enemy lines much earlier in advance and have to remain hidden while spying on the enemy. So to say scouts aren't snipers, or it isn't part of their repertoire is just wrong. If anything scouts shouldn't be toting shotguns, it's loud that kind of defeats the point of trying to be sneaky but this is a video game it and it's fun to do.
Oswald Rehnquist 1011	Posted - 2014.01.09 06:13:00 - [40] - Quote First thing is I actually want to see CCP's racials before we dump them, because I have a feeling they are tweaking a few other things that we don't know about. But in the spirit of the thread here is my response. I disagree with said racial proposed in this thread, Of the things that are obvious The Caldari Scout can effectively function as the "anti scout / scout spotter" due to the ability to throw on the most precision mods of any scout, and that is a unique role right there, thus I think its racial should reflect that. CCP has it has a short term offensive harrier which works for me as well in all honestly. Also Gallente Ewar was dedicated to profile reduction, which actually carried over from EVE to dust, so that bonus works for me, the profile reduction skill is a very powerful skill to have as that helps a lot, with the low slot of the gal and the sig reduction bonus would allow this to be the tank / stealth scout. The less obvious ones The Min is a tougher one, the hacking bonus is incredible useful or Ghosts biotic scout would be great. The benefits of the biotic scout would be that the slot starved min would get all of its slots maximized (highs and lows) due to the bonuses Ghost suggested, which turns minor skills into a major package with more flexibility. I don't like the NK bonus only because being tied to one weapon sucks, especially when its not even your own weapon, Ghosts idea allows the non cpu/pg melee to function like the knife. The Amarr scout is the toughest one, but if the Amarr peeps are happy with the stamina increase and regen, that works as it fits with Dust's amarr traits. If this does happen CCP would need to give it a +1 EQ slot over the other scouts to make equipment running useful. CCP's bonuses currently has this as a long term offensive harrier. Below 28 dB

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 4	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:47:00 - [41] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: To hell with the nova knife bonus. Give me commando base melee and a bonus to biotics. I think the nova knife/ melee damage should be included in the biotics bonus. This works, because the nova knives are so highly specialized, and this will not overpower the min scout compared to the other races. But agree 100% that melee damage base needs to be bumped to near commando levels. Just a side note, i think that nova knives will be able to slash while cloaked and not drain the cloak at all, when the cloak does come out. Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 196	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:03:00 - [42] - Quote I may never spec into Gallente scout for stealth with that bonus, may just put my cloak on my Gallente logi (I was a tactical logi since closed beta, the only reason I've ever stopped was for the PLC usage (assault for sidearm) and back when raven suit was a top suit (I was raven in mag and was collecting large quantities of isk)) Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 5	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:11:00 - [43] - Quote Galthur wrote: I may never spec into Gallente scout for stealth with that bonus, may just put my cloak on my Gallente logi (I was a tactical logi since closed beta, the only reason I've ever stopped was for the PLC usage (assault for sidearm) and back when raven suit was a top suit (I was raven in mag and was collecting large quantities of isk)) I think the logi cloaking idea is what ccp wants to prevent... Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 851	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:13:00 - [44] - Quote Please support my thread to save the Gal scout, in the feedback section of the forum: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134681&find=unread Thanx {:)}{3GÇó>
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 603	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:14:00 - [45] - Quote Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. In your blind spot
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1096	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:22:00 - [46] - Quote The new bonuses could actually work out well if CCP makes some changes Change suit stats Change min bonus to 5% hacking and buff NK damage or proficiency skill (min's will still be the most proficient with them due to having the highest base speed) Decrease the effectiveness of the gal logi bonus so scouts only need 1 cmp damp to avoid non-focused gal logi proto scanner Make the cal scout have a jammer bonus when that gets released (on top of cloak bonus or replacing it, i don't care) !
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 446	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:30:00 - [47] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quote: I think min should get the hacking bonus but that's just me. I completely agree that they should definetly give the min scout some sort of hacking bonus, but i think it should be included in the suit automatically. The min suits already have a slight hacking bonus compared to other classes, but a base increase would be nice But the hacking bonus makes more sense on a gal scout, as codebreakers seem to be gallente tech...I would love a bonus for RE's on the minni scout.
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 114	Posted - 2014.01.09 18:38:00 - [48] - Quote I have said this before and will say it again: Cal/Gal have ALL the Best toys. CCP takes a dump on the Min/Ammar every chance they get. What Gives? Are we being cowherded into rolls now? CCP, PLEASE give us some Love'n.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 6	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:36:00 - [49] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives SHOTGUNS and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. corrected it :) Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 239	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:40:00 - [50] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Don't be alarmed! There may be all kinds of goodies waiting for us! In fact, they might be planning to reverse every single nerf they've applied since Chromosome! What does that mean for you, my Scoutly friend? * Better Scan Range * Better Speed * Better Stamina * Better Hitbox * Better Hi/Lo Slot Configs * Better EQ Options * Better PG/CPU Output * And so much more! All this could be just around the corner. So hang in there, Sport! And keep your chin up! CCP appreciates the Scout Community's patience over the past 8 months. CCP will take good care of the Scout. Honestly I've learned to keep my expectations extremely low

Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 607	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:37:00 - [51] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives SHOTGUNS and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. corrected it for you :) the assassination idea is a really good one, but would (I think) be rather hard to implement, and if it were implemented, be very inconsistent in output Shotguns are covered under weapon damage And yes I agree - If different hit areas arent already defined (other than head) and cant be easily done it may be difficult. That is why I came up with the other one tied to cloak since it seems where we are being pushed. In your blind spot
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:42:00 - [52] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Minnie Scout %Damage increase done X seconds after de-cloaking. The bonus either: 1. increases the percentage of damage done per level or 2. increases the time allotted for this damage buff to last Some may say this ties our bonus too much to using the cloak but at the moment our bonus is tied to just one weapon. This would at least apply to all weapons. OR 5% Assassin damage per level Applies to RE's, Knives SHOTGUNS and weapon damage done to the side or rear of the enemy. @OP - The quick slash may not de-cloak you but I am almost sure the fully charged slash will. corrected it for you :) the assassination idea is a really good one, but would (I think) be rather hard to implement, and if it were implemented, be very inconsistent in output Shotguns are covered under weapon damage And yes I agree - If different hit areas arent already defined (other than head) and cant be easily done it may be difficult. That is why I came up with the other one tied to cloak since it seems where we are being pushed. The assassin one though...looks damn good Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
negative49er The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 484	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:02:00 - [53] - Quote for me the future minnie scout make sense invisible + knives= unseen assasion Dedicated Shotgun Scout
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:04:00 - [54] - Quote negative49er wrote: for me the future minnie scout make sense invisible + knives= unseen assasion i also think nova knives should receive a huge reduction in cloak draining when you slash them, so that they would truly be assassination weapons Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2116	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:15:00 - [55] - Quote I don't like the Sniper bonus. Don't like one suit being better than the rest for sniping. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:18:00 - [56] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I don't like the Sniper bonus. Don't like one suit being better than the rest for sniping. I edited it to a 3% reduction. But also, the gallente scout is the best at passive scanning and e-war, minmitar has the fastest speed, and is a great assassin, amarr is the best for covering long distances. As the sniper is caldari tech, I think it seems reasonable that the caldari scout specializes in that particular role of the scout Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Darius Ashran Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 58	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:20:00 - [57] - Quote From CCP Remnant - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 14	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:44:00 - [58] - Quote Darius Ashran wrote: From CCP Remnant - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699530#post1699530 I think the caldari gets a bonus to reduce drain on the cloak's charge, and therefore may allow it to shoot multiple shots with the sniper rifle Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 802	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:03:00 - [59] - Quote so what are the role bonuses you guys think the scout should have? cloak related scan precision/dampener/range related stamina and speed related i need to know so i can update my thread for the scout role/racial bonuses In Rust We Trust, true to the Republic, Kherokior warrior
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:09:00 - [60] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: so what are the role bonuses you guys think the scout should have? cloak related scan precision/dampener/range related stamina and speed related i need to know so i can update my thread for the scout role/racial bonuses Ideally? Note: Assuming scouts have lower base profile to compensate loss of original scout bonus Scout bonus: 15% fitting reduction to Electronic Warfare Equipment (Cloaks, Jammers, etc.) per level Cal scout: Bonus to jammers (range and duration) Gal scout: 5 or 10% increase to Passive scanner range and 5% decrease in scan profile per level(if that is not enough, cloaking efficiency bonus as well) Min scout: 5% increase to hack speed and X% increase in sprint speed (what amount is fair?) per level Amarr scout: X% bonus to max stamina amount, Y% bonus to stamina regeneration, plus some other bonus per level Edit: Other amarrian bonus could also be something not a bonus, such as better stats (more than amarr normally get) or something Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter



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