DUST Search - I hate to be so final but Rail Tanks are COMPLETELY BROKEN

All Channels

General Discussions

I hate to be so final but Rail Tanks are COMPLETELY BROKEN

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 987	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:25:00 - [1] - Quote I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that overpowered work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 297 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 303	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:29:00 - [2] - Quote Holy crap this is from Judge himself. Things must be serious thenGÇª "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1104	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:31:00 - [3] - Quote I agree. ADS harassing people? Pull out your 69,000 ISK double amped rail Sica and pop it from halfway across the map in seconds. They are broken against other tanks, too. When the enemy has 2-3 rail tanks, you can't deploy ANYTHING. Even if you do manage to deploy the one thing that kills them, another rail tank, they usually already know where it is and pop it as soon as you peak your tank out of cover for a shot. Of course, without rails, good shield tanks would be even harder to take out. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9253	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:31:00 - [4] - Quote I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I might not say they need to be removed all together, but I definitely get the sentiment. Many of these maps they can roll so far back that you can't even use a dropship packed with remote explosives to kill them. They're too far back to kill with anything but a railgun and an orbital at the same time. Try to kill them with a railgun, they recall. Try to kill them with an orbital, they roll backwards. The fact that anyone can call in a railgun installation in the redline with two damage amps for 60k is definitely a big part of the problem. Vids / O7
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1160	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:32:00 - [5] - Quote I think Blasters are more broken tbh...
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2358	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:32:00 - [6] - Quote cause it isn't the DS, huh? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9253	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:33:00 - [7] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: cause it isn't the DS, huh? Should we double our HP and be immune to everything? Vids / O7
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 88	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:35:00 - [8] - Quote railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 941	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:42:00 - [9] - Quote I think a huge nerf to range would help to solve all of the railgun problems. Maybe 350m at most would still keep it as a viable long range weapon without giving it the ability to control the whole battlefield from one location. Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. I like the recoil idea. I've found it funny how I can aim at a Bolas from across the map and just hold R1 and watch it get destroyed. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9254	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:44:00 - [10] - Quote Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well Vids / O7

Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1739	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:46:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well tankers are the princesses of dust... fact. stop the lol bans in FW.... instead make teamkillers purple! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129910&fi
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 89	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:46:00 - [12] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I think a huge nerf to range would help to solve all of the railgun problems. Maybe 350m at most would still keep it as a viable long range weapon without giving it the ability to control the whole battlefield from one location. Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. I like the recoil idea. I've found it funny how I can aim at a Bolas from across the map and just hold R1 and watch it get destroyed. this would also stop these would be in your face blaster railtanks. that way no matter my remaing hp at point blank i can kill the railtnak regardless if it wants to try and fight me at less than 50m.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 951	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:52:00 - [13] - Quote What will char char do? He only rail tanks. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9256	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:56:00 - [14] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence Vids / O7
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:57:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well I myself am a tanker and rails for one are OP as **** like 85% of my deaths are to them 5-10% to AV usually right after being hit by a rail and 5-10% from other tanks (Not Rails). Currently I want tanks to be the best counter to tanks but as we get more vehicles I would like some sort of aircraft to be the best counter, current dropships should be about as effective or equal but I would rather have some Heavy aircraft or light fighter fitted with ANTI-TANK missiles to be a more effective counter than another Tank. Tanker/Assault Can I have my ADV and PRO tanks now (Honeyed Lamb enroute).
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2355	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:58:00 - [16] - Quote I locked down the entire map in a Domination game once with nothing but a Sica, an Ammo Extension Unit, and a MLT Damage Mod. I racked up a total of 20 vehicle kills because they kept trying to call out DSs and LAVs. All from 400m. Yeah that's broken. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 508	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:59:00 - [17] - Quote Quite an unexpected post coming from Judge, but a very welcome one in my opinion. I have recently seen the amount of tanks go from 2-3 on the battlefield to at least 6-8 every match ever since this new update came out. As a veteran pilot (and many others can speak to this as well) I can attest that it isn't the update that technically "made" them broken, because they always were, except the amount of redliners was severely less than it is now, and having been in many matches with around 3 dedicated redliners on the enemy team, i can also testify to the fact that it is an absolutely game breaking mechanic due to the incredibly high amount of power, range, and rate of fire they have. It's just simply unreasonable for the distance these things can cover, literally the entire. map. Often no matter where you are, even at height ceiling, all a railgun redline camper needs is to roll up a hill to get the tank at an angle, and bam, they can hit you from a distance of over 400 meters while you're at the max height ceiling, and destroy your pro-module dropship in two shots. Like i said, this has always been a severe problem, but with the price of tanks and skills needed to tank being dropped, it has caused an influx of redline railgun campers like never before, and now dropship pilots (who originally thought this update would bring a good change to flying) find themselves in an even worse situation than before. CCP, I beg you to hear these arguments being made and understand that if there is going to be a balance with vehicles, railgun tanks shouldn't be able to 1-2 shot a dropship with absolute ease from any part of the map, even when at height ceiling. I atleast thought this would have been addressed when they began to limit ranges on forge guns, but the large railgun is the strangest thing, because it seems almost nerf-proof. I can't recall one time where CCP made adjustments to the range, damage, or rate of fire on railguns, and it makes no sense to me, because i thought they would have realized this issue by now. Well, in any case, make that video ASAP Judge, all i can say is that I'm proud you have given dropship pilots a coherent voice that CCP can notice easier.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 989	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:07:00 - [18] - Quote We do need rails. I am not for removing them forever. But the combination of range, Alpha and turret elevation combined with small maps and redline invunrability just equals broken. Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run. Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match. These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across. This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 953	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:07:00 - [19] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence peg and Pearson will be here too. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 508	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:09:00 - [20] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run. Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match. These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across. This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses. Perfect analogy for the railgun vs dropship situation in my opinion.

Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1105	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:09:00 - [21] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ... on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2356	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:10:00 - [22] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence peg and Pearson will be here too. Don't forget CharCharOdell and Tankahiro. The LOLTank Brigade is very strong in numbers, but not so strong on the whole quality thing. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 954	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:12:00 - [23] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run. Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match. These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across. This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses. Perfect analogy for the railgun vs dropship situation in my opinion. kind of long winded though. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9258	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:13:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence peg and Pearson will be here too. Don't forget CharCharOdell and Tankahiro. The LOLTank Brigade is very strong in numbers, but not so strong on the whole quality thing. Alright, I apologize for starting this derail. Let's stick to the quality and stop pointing fingers. Sorry about that, but let's keep this on topic because this is a pretty important topic. This is my last post that won't have something to do with the issue at hand Vids / O7
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 508	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:18:00 - [25] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Serimos Haeraven wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run. Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match. These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across. This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses. Perfect analogy for the railgun vs dropship situation in my opinion. kind of long winded though. Yes, long winded indeed, but it gets at the core of the entire issue as to why they are horridly broken.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 34	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:22:00 - [26] - Quote Bump +1. I usually fly very low to the ground, so most times I can weave between buildings and get away. However, I have found myself looking up to Mount Kraken wondering what my team can do to the tank as my fourth DS lay smouldering. FAME
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1160	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:29:00 - [27] - Quote Tanks in general are broken. 100%, What about blasters? They can kill at 200m. How does a Gallente piece of technology have the range of a sniper rifle?
ratamaq doc Edge Regiment 266	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:51:00 - [28] - Quote I mentioned redline rails being the next issue that people would start to notice last week. Before, it was feasible for a suicide run AV team to get into the redline and remove the vag with AV and swarms before the timer ran out. This is impossible now. Everyone uses the "REs kill tanks just fine HTFU" argument. Can't deploy them in the red. The fact is these things are uncounterable if the pilot has 1/2 a brain. I dare anyone to say they've successfully downed one this build. You'll look as cool as the guy bragging about seducing the ******** girl who works the fryer. And if you've been downed this build, feel good that Wendy's has special programs for people like you. Edit: the synonym for Down's syndrome is censored? YouTube 30D Recruiting
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1317	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:52:00 - [29] - Quote i said this a week a go. ppl called me crazy. O_o Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Megamix Chemist METACOSM. 0	Posted - 2013.12.21 05:05:00 - [30] - Quote Bump +1 Range needs to be addressed, maybe the rails kinetic energy round travels so fast it gets too hot and implodes after a certain distance or sharpens down to a smaller round doing less damage, or maybe not but there should be an easy solution.

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 349	Posted - 2013.12.21 05:38:00 - [31] - Quote I think if rails couldn't look higher than 20 degrees, then drop ships have the ability to stay out of their reach. At least tanks and LAVs can find cover. Dropships are just screwed.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 164	Posted - 2013.12.21 05:42:00 - [32] - Quote Megamix Chemist wrote: Bump +1 Range needs to be addressed, maybe the rails round travels so fast it gets too hot and implodes after a certain distance or sharpens down to a smaller round doing less damage, maybe not but there should be a solution. 1.6 fire rate, reduce damage by at least 100, bring the ADV snd PRO rails closer together so they cant have over 1700 damage recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1929	Posted - 2013.12.21 05:49:00 - [33] - Quote i don't think rail tanks themselfs are the issue but friendly redzones. btw if anyone doesn't know the only way they can aim up that much is by angling the tank to into the sky so they can no longer look down(humping a vert rock or hill and no long can see anything but the sky). fix this and all of your rail tanks issues and redzone snipers(like they are an issue much anymore) go away. but you know you always could make it arc like plasma cannon but faster and less arc to make more like a modern tank cannon and that'll help with the anti air part of it and make it a skill weapon. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Shley Ashes State Patriots Templis De Novo 93	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:16:00 - [34] - Quote Thought I'd chime in, you know me Judge so hit me up in squad about this Railguns are currently the most effective counter to all vehicles, FACT They will always be balanced against HAV's primarily, which means they will wreck all other forms of vehicle, so if you want to reduce its effectiveness against DS you're going to need to either have a counter available on them or remove HAV's ability to engage DS with the railgun, You know I think HAV's are broken(I've told you so), also that I think AV received to high a nerf, herein lies the biggest problem to the current railgun issue, I can't whip out a forge gun easily to engage you anymore(because I'm not a great shot with it), or LoLswarms(range nerf/dmg nerf), heck I can't even fire upon you with small arms because LoLsmallarms, throw AV grenades doubt you'll be that low and my throwing arm isn't great. However I can call in a 69k tank and blat you with that, from the relative safety of the redline !!! What I see as the issues are: 1) Current AV is ineffective in most situations 2) HAV's are balanced against HAV's ((at least I think thats what CCP went for)also I don't think they are balanced) 3) Militia railgun tanks to easily accessabile possible fixes: 1) buff current AV (least likely to work) 2) lower HAV's ability to engage higher objects. e.g. reduce turret elevation for railguns 3) Replace the Militia railgun on the Sica with a Large Militia Missile Launcher (MT-1) Also redline issue, something needs to be addressed where damage inflicted and received in the redline, everyone dislikes redline snipers of all types, sorry all snipers its true. I used to pilot HAV's then I took a forge gun to the knee, but now forge guns do nothing to HAV's........
Agrios Endendros Single Serving Friends 63	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:32:00 - [35] - Quote I think we should severely shrink the boundaries and have the redline become an actual force barrier, that would only allow friendly coded objects to pass though. Ammunition, being too small, non physical in makeup, moving too fast, or some other nonsense, would not be able to pass through from EITHER side. Edit: Though I guess you would just have those who would stick their nose out, shoot, and back up, so no this won't work. In the MCC should be only redline I guess. Alts: Haruko Endendros, Canti Endendros, & Zero Endendros Play Dust! Join Here!
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1930	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:34:00 - [36] - Quote Shley Ashes wrote: What I see as the issues are: 1) Current AV is ineffective in most situations 2) HAV's are balanced against HAV's ((at least I think thats what CCP went for)also I don't think they are balanced) 3) Militia railgun tanks to easily accessabile possible fixes: 1) buff current AV (least likely to work) 2) lower HAV's ability to engage higher objects. e.g. reduce turret elevation for railguns 3) Replace the Militia railgun on the Sica with a Large Militia Missile Launcher (MT-1) Also redline issue, something needs to be addressed where damage inflicted and received in the redline, everyone dislikes redline snipers of all types, sorry all snipers its true. 1. current AV is effective when used correctly and buffing it to much will just put it back to 1.6 where no one but broke equipment vehicle that are OP because they are broke will be used 2. they are and that would have zero effect. 3. well so what? that would have a minor effect and wouldn't change that much since they could just buy one and fit over it on the cheap. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 814	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:40:00 - [37] - Quote ladwar wrote: Shley Ashes wrote: What I see as the issues are: 1) Current AV is ineffective in most situations 2) HAV's are balanced against HAV's ((at least I think thats what CCP went for)also I don't think they are balanced) 3) Militia railgun tanks to easily accessabile possible fixes: 1) buff current AV (least likely to work) 2) lower HAV's ability to engage higher objects. e.g. reduce turret elevation for railguns 3) Replace the Militia railgun on the Sica with a Large Militia Missile Launcher (MT-1) Also redline issue, something needs to be addressed where damage inflicted and received in the redline, everyone dislikes redline snipers of all types, sorry all snipers its true. 1. current AV is effective when used correctly and buffing it to much will just put it back to 1.6 where no one but broke equipment vehicle that are OP because they are broke will be used 2. they are and that would have zero effect. 3. well so what? that would have a minor effect and wouldn't change that much since they could just buy one and fit over it on the cheap. The current AV isnt effective when redline tanks are on a hill in the back and they can reverse two feet so you cant shoot them. 8 ishokune assault forgegun rounds to take out a mlt HAV. More if they use a sica with two hardners. Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
Rusty Shallows 582	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:42:00 - [38] - Quote Pre 1.7 conversation. Rusty Shallows wrote: snip Rendering issues have been a persistent problem. It has screwed over snipers pretty good. I can't wait until CCP fixes it and people realize Large Rails have a range more than three times Forge Guns, a faster shot velocity, and better splash. Because it has always been good times when a HAV from a perfectly safe position spams an area and someday when they can scope and clearly see everything it will get even better. snip Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: assertions and straw men are hardly valid responses. Since your reply lacks relevance I shall ignore it. *passes Judge Rhadamasntus a plate of crow* MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
dogmanpig black market bank 83	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:43:00 - [39] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: ladwar wrote: Shley Ashes wrote: What I see as the issues are: 1) Current AV is ineffective in most situations 2) HAV's are balanced against HAV's ((at least I think thats what CCP went for)also I don't think they are balanced) 3) Militia railgun tanks to easily accessabile possible fixes: 1) buff current AV (least likely to work) 2) lower HAV's ability to engage higher objects. e.g. reduce turret elevation for railguns 3) Replace the Militia railgun on the Sica with a Large Militia Missile Launcher (MT-1) Also redline issue, something needs to be addressed where damage inflicted and received in the redline, everyone dislikes redline snipers of all types, sorry all snipers its true. 1. current AV is effective when used correctly and buffing it to much will just put it back to 1.6 where no one but broke equipment vehicle that are OP because they are broke will be used 2. they are and that would have zero effect. 3. well so what? that would have a minor effect and wouldn't change that much since they could just buy one and fit over it on the cheap. The current AV isnt effective when redline tanks are on a hill in the back and they can reverse two feet so you cant shoot them. 8 ishokune assault forgegun rounds to take out a mlt HAV. More if they use a sica with two hardners. your issue is with redlines not AV or vehicles.... you are miss guided in your ways. You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 8 1/10 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1930	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:45:00 - [40] - Quote i hate you dogmanpig... Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 960	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:48:00 - [41] - Quote For now the aerial red zone could be enlarged. It would allow ADS to at least fight these cowards. Also AV could then YOLO the problem. The reason they are back there is they want to be able to engage their targets with no chance of being hurt. Take that away and they will fit more tank less gank. Buff AV. Its going to happen. Why wait? The skilled tankers will adapt and militia will be nerfed by natural selection. Drop ships could get a buff too. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
dogmanpig black market bank 83	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:48:00 - [42] - Quote ladwar wrote: i hate you dogmanpig... thanks You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 8 1/10 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2590	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:51:00 - [43] - Quote The redline is a huge part of the problem. I had a rail ADS take out a rail Sica pretty quickly but you can't do that to a redline tank. In fact the redline is a huge problem in general. I wouldn't be sorry to see it go. If a team gets pushed back so badly that it needs the artificial protection of a redline, just end the match early. Declare a mercy and end it. Anti-HAV weapons must be DPS balanced against the HAV, but that puts dropships as medium vehicles in a bad spot. Dropships need some unique way to mitigate the threat. Since The rail can elevate higher than it needs to in order to battle other tanks it can be reduced as a partial fix. We still need a way to mitigate the FG, but it isn't nearly as much of a problem. And please, please, drop your plans to build an anti-dropship HAV!
dogmanpig black market bank 83	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:51:00 - [44] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: For now the aerial red zone could be enlarged. It would allow ADS to at least fight these cowards. Also AV could then YOLO the problem. The reason they are back there is they want to be able to engage their targets with no chance of being hurt. Take that away and they will fit more tank less gank. Buff AV. Its going to happen. Why wait? The skilled tankers will adapt and militia will be nerfed by natural selection. Drop ships could get a buff too. hey i think you get the idea, fix the issue that the redline was made for and then remove the red line! You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 8 1/10 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
Rowdy Railgunner Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 289	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:52:00 - [45] - Quote I find the opposite to be true. I have never been pinned down by a rail tank. I use them to kill other tanks but at the same time I find them pretty weak. To get max damage you sacrifice tank. They normally pop in 3-4 hits from my rail tank. Or my rail tank pops in 3-4 hits from another rail tank. They are glass cannons, also, JIHAD TAXI!!! I have killed a few railgun snipers in my LAV of tank death many times because in 18 seconds I can easily ram them.
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 447	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:53:00 - [46] - Quote I'm quite taken with rail gunning. It's my new favorite toy, and I've grown to love it. I mean, yeah, you need something that can shoot down Drop ships, or else they'll dominate the match. But infinite range is definitely broken. Maybe the power of the shot should weaken at extreme range? Give the weapon a minimum range of 250 meters for full power, and start penalizing it beyond that?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9265	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:55:00 - [47] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: I find the opposite to be true. I have never been pinned down by a rail tank. I use them to kill other tanks but at the same time I find them pretty weak. To get max damage you sacrifice tank. They normally pop in 3-4 hits from my rail tank. Or my rail tank pops in 3-4 hits from another rail tank. They are glass cannons, also, JIHAD TAXI!!! I have killed a few railgun snipers in my LAV of tank death many times because in 18 seconds I can easily ram them. The issue is that you can only kill them with another railgun tank, that's it You can't even suicide LAV most of these guys because they're simply too far back, and if you somehow get close enough they'll either kill you before you hit them, or they'll just casually roll backwards until you explode from redline. You can't even kill these guys with an orbital, because they just roll backwards. At no point should someone be immune to almost all forms of damage while being a viable threat to multiple enemies at the exact same time. Vids / O7
CharCharOdell 1824	Posted - 2013.12.21 06:55:00 - [48] - Quote Ugh....alright. Here is the issue with rails: If we nerf them, then there is no way for infantry with 0 SP in tanks to counter tanks Rails are balanced against tanks very well. EHP for tanks is low enough to kill redline tanks wihtout hardeners on (most of them!) The answer is the buff dropships- cloaking, anyone!? How cool would it be to be chilling in your tank and then suddenly 3 small missile turrets rip you to shreds and you had no idea how!? I like that idea. I want balance for this game. I really do. With 80k mlt tanks being almost as good as 400k tanks, infantry have no excuse other than lack of skill with piloting to not be able to kill other tanks. It is FREE AV. Takes no SP and is cheaper than proto AV so complaining about tanks is pointless because EVERYONE CAN USE THEM. No tank can stand up to a mlt rail with 2 dmg mods running! Stop thinking AV is the only counter when CCP gave you these powerfl MLT tanks to kill other tanks with! USe it. But yeah, dropships are suffering from rails. They need a huge buff and new modules. ON the other hand, a dropship can run with a friendly rail tank in the squad and then not have to worry about rail tanks that are red. So the balance is already there. The tools exist and require zero SP. You just dont want to drive tanks to solve your problem. If it required 3 mil SP to use a tank then fine, i get it, but it doesnt. You;re complaing about nothing. It's like saying the duvolle is OP when you have a mlt AR that has nearly the same killing power (hypothetically). Stop complaining and adapt like we did over the last 7 builds of constant nerfs and av buffs. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó I like railguns.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9265	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:01:00 - [49] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: The answer is the buff dropships- cloaking, anyone!? How cool would it be to be chilling in your tank and then suddenly 3 small missile turrets rip you to shreds and you had no idea how!? I like that idea. I want balance for this game. I really do. You still couldn't hit them in the redline, no one equips side guns because your survivability plummets, and you can't hit with even 2 guns on the same target, never-mind 3. Carry on. Vids / O7
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 447	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:06:00 - [50] - Quote What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact.

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 962	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:13:00 - [51] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact. its almost like you read my mind. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
Rusty Shallows 582	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:14:00 - [52] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: snip Rails are balanced against tanks very snip They've been buffed well past what pre 1.7 Forge Guns were. So many HAV TC were screaming for Nerfs suddenly seem okay with such a weapon. Hypocrisy at its finest. I don't recall Odell being one of the Nerf Brigade. Just need to get a dig in on 1.7 Rails. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1930	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:24:00 - [53] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact. its almost like you read my mind. and so i now see spawn camping dropships preventing people from spawning in their own spawn areas. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 962	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:27:00 - [54] - Quote ladwar wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact. its almost like you read my mind. and so i now see spawn camping dropships preventing people from spawning in their own spawn areas. trust me they are afraid of forges still. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 164	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:30:00 - [55] - Quote ladwar wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact. its almost like you read my mind. and so i now see spawn camping dropships preventing people from spawning in their own spawn areas. butr there are supply depots and institutions in the redline recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1930	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:31:00 - [56] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: ladwar wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact. its almost like you read my mind. and so i now see spawn camping dropships preventing people from spawning in their own spawn areas. trust me they are afraid of forges still. not that afraid... plus when there 3-6 of them your only going to scare one away while the rest keep on spawn camping. fix spawn protection and area to the point that friendly redzones can be removed will do everything and more. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc 592	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:31:00 - [57] - Quote I've been dealing with Redline rail snipers since day one. Get in line "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 449	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:32:00 - [58] - Quote ladwar wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: Our Deepest Regret wrote: What if Drop ships were immune to Red line auto-death? It would make sense. The timer should only be triggered by vehicles that touch the ground. So long as the pilot and his crew stayed airborne, they wouldn't explode, and they'd be able to hunt red line rail gunners. They'd be the ultimate counter, in fact. its almost like you read my mind. and so i now see spawn camping dropships preventing people from spawning in their own spawn areas. Well, why do we have those turrets in our red line base that never get used? They'd finally have a purpose, wouldn't they? Besides people should be respawning at uplinks and objective sites, anyway. Why would you go back to the R/L unless you were planning to red line snipe?
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 449	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:36:00 - [59] - Quote ladwar wrote: not that afraid... plus when there 3-6 of them your only going to scare one away while the rest keep on spawn camping. fix spawn protection and area to the point that friendly redzones can be removed will do everything and more. Alrighty then. What if the red line were a null fire zone where weapons damage didn't exist? Same way you can't snipe at people from MCC anymore, just extended to the entire R/L. Do you think that would help?
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 461	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:12:00 - [60] - Quote I'm not sure if we should remove them completely but they do need a fixing, starting with the red line. This has been a problem since beta and should be addressed with the help of both dropship and rail tank pilots. If there was a Dev workshop where dedicated dropship pilots and rail tankers on a private server to discuss and work on this balance. That would be the most inspiring development for pilots. Not all the time but when serious balance issues such as this is concerned. Showing the vehicle devs the problems first hand and providing some interesting and possible balance solutions. Beta testing new mechanics and features for feed back before implementing.

8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 1161	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:21:00 - [61] - Quote Tanks in general are broken. 100%, What about blasters? They can kill at 200m. How does a Gallente piece of technology have the range of a sniper rifle?
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 112	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:23:00 - [62] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1000	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:25:00 - [63] - Quote I'll restress that it is the redline and the power against dropships that is the main issue. While we need weapons to fight strong tanks these weapons should not be able to dominate the sky. Thats where dropships are supposed to rule. The buildings and inner spaces belong to the infantry. The open spaces are ruled by the tanks. The sky should belong to aerial craft, but it doesn't. Tanks are king there. We do not need, in this build with these maps a vehicle that can shoot all the way across the map and into the sky. To have a fight you and your opponent should both know that you are in that fight. 500m kills from 100 meters into the redline are not fair fights. It's simply handing kils to one player and taking ISK from another. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 510	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:28:00 - [64] - Quote Well hopefully at least ONE dev will reply to this... Hello, devs? Anyone?
Sephirian Fair 0uter.Heaven 163	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:51:00 - [65] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I'll restress that it is the redline and the power against dropships that is the main issue. While we need weapons to fight strong tanks these weapons should not be able to dominate the sky. Thats where dropships are supposed to rule. The buildings and inner spaces belong to the infantry. The open spaces are ruled by the tanks. The sky should belong to aerial craft, but it doesn't. Tanks are king there. We do not need, in this build with these maps a vehicle that can shoot all the way across the map and into the sky. To have a fight you and your opponent should both know that you are in that fight. 500m kills from 100 meters into the redline are not fair fights. It's simply handing kils to one player and taking ISK from another. No, it isn't the redline, it is an archaic damage structure that CCP has left in place concerning Railguns, Forge Guns, and Sniper Rifles. No damage drop-off over range. That has been the #1 problem plaguing everything concerning these three weapons. Redline Railtanks? 100% 0m-600m. Rooftop Forgegun? 100% 0m-300m. Redline Sniper? 100% 0m-500m. Would Dropships be as bothered by a Railgun in the redline if when it shot at you from maximum range, it was doing 25-30% of it's maximum damage? (Pre-1.7) --> Would Rooftop Forgeguns have been able to control the entire map while destroying all vehicles if it was doing a fraction of its damage? Would people give a damn about the sniper in the redline if the damage was minimized because of his decision to be so far back? The no damage drop-off over range is the biggest reason why people choose to use these tactics over more aggressive ones such as moving in closer. There's no reason to. I'll do the same amount of damage with my Railgun at 0m as I will do at 500m. That damage structure is an ancient relic of when CCP didn't have a freakin' clue how to make an FPS and for some reason the playerbase has seldom said anything about it. It is the biggest cause of frustration for everything concerning the redline. These weapons need a damage restructuring where their base damage is buffed while they now have damage drop-off over range. This adds a risk-reward structure with these weapons. If you get in closer, you'll be able to inflict far more damage, while being safe and hiding in the back results in very minor damage. You have to worry about range with ALL other projectile weapons, why are these three exempt? And if anyone says they are Railgun tech, I demand the Rail Rifle follow suit. 100% 0m-250m.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 199	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:03:00 - [66] - Quote Wanted to add my thoughts and experience here. I don't have solutions, but here's my short experience: - sunk 2.7m SP into pilot on an alt - having great fun with dropships the last few weeks, figuring out how the hell to fly the things, what skill trees to dump points into etc. - figured out (so I thought) on how to stay alive, when to harden, when to run - watched Judge's training videos, kept an eye on forums for feedback on vehicles in general, what I need to be aware of - got into an assault DS, put on an afterburner, smashed into the underside of the MCC during the shortest and most spectacular maiden voyage ever (LOL) - wow the assault DS is an agile beast, once I get good, I will be able to throw that thing around the map - woooh Then the last few days, one game, I couldn't even get a DS onto the map due to (what I now know to be) rail sniping. No idea where the shots are coming from. Figured out to call it in from another position and it not get hit, so I assume that means that railgun doesn't have LoS on my DS from that position, so now I have a limited strategy to stay out of its way and try help my team. But I have to lose ships to figure out where that safe spot is. Then yesterday, I got two-shotted from high altitude out of nowhere. I'm like, holy crap, what the hell was that, oh ***, I'm gonna lose my ship, afterburners, flight ceiling, dual harderners, can't tank that. I persisted though, I said to myself, I am gonna have to figure out how to avoid that. Three dropships and 1m ISK later, I'm like, nah I don't know how to avoid that, I have no idea unless I just sit behind the MCC doing nothing useful. Long-winded post, maybe, but one of my points is about how do we retain players that want to be pilots? This is my NPE so far from a pilot's point of view, and I'm disheartened. The fact this thread was started makes me hopeful that this is a relatively new problem, that there may be a solution at some point, and it's not just* about me needing to get good, but for now, I can't burn through ISK like I did the last few days. We need mercs doing every role DUST has to offer, that will help make it more fun etc., but my main is a Scout, and an alt. of mine is a pilot, and neither of them are particularly fun right now. I'll keep going for the moment though.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2014	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:36:00 - [67] - Quote I have a few rail tanks but generally i dont like to use em, too slow at turning and im terrible at hitting infantry to boot but im using it more and more now These days rail tanks are the 1st tanks to be brought out espc if there is a nice large hill about and if its in the redline its a bonus, they are brought out as a suprise to any other vehicles which are also called out since they are either missile or blaster and you can easily get the drop on them but also like a sniper you have the saftey of the redline and enough HP to escape about anything If im put into a game late and there is alot a tanks about i can bring out a rail and clear the field from a hill and generally have a clear view of the entire field on some maps Its not that different to the redline thales sniper who OHK everything infantry, the railgun does it to vehicles instead and is very good at it just like the sniper and at one time the FG did it to both things from towers So Judge says remove them because they whack anything into dust, does that mean we remove snipers aswell which whack anything infantry into dust because they have a clear view of the map? Also militia rails are also used and with militia dmg mods on a militia tank, so is militia also a problem? do we reduce everything militia even more or scrap it completely, but does that mean we scrap everything militia since militia BPO dropsuits can kill proto suits? The maps are small, one day in about 5years time maybe on the PS4 we have access to the entire map and matches maybe 64v64 or higher and on some maps a 4man rail tanking squad may set up on a hill and shoot down anything that comes within 600m of what ever they are guarding, would it still be broke then? no because you could move on foot or at least counter with your own tank squad but the rails would still whack anything vehicle wise with ease so maybe it would still be broke against vehicles but that is what the rail is for If militia vehicles are reduced to uselessness or completely removed then would be pilots may not bother as much, do you really want to save up alot of SP and take a shot in the dark with something that you cant try out or wouldnt want to because its a moving coffin? If rails are removed how do you change them? they are a powerful long distance anti vehicle weapon like the sniper is a powerful long range anti infantry weapon, are snipers then removed from the game? do FG change as a consequence and also be removed? Would the rail even come back even if the maps were larger because they could do exactly the same thing except only close off a portion of the map instead of all of it? This is pubs too, a redline rail can annoy all vehicles and the enemy can counter with one of there own which then leads to a rail match, how does it effect PC matches? granted there will be one about generally picking off the odd tank if it sees it and once again the enemy can also bring one in If anyone did see the vehicle notes before the patch we all knew the rail was back, 600m and 2k dmg as base against the new vehicle numbers, no one should have been suprised by this, espc not the DS pilots since the rail is the DS major threat But if the rail is removed what keeps the DS in check? ive got a few with missiles, FG can be good also and lolswarms if they are alert Asking for a in private chat/NDA BS is also lolworthy and should not happen Intelligence is OP
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 286	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:41:00 - [68] - Quote Eh, I flew my alt ADS for half the day yesterday, of the two I lost one was my own stupidity and the other was shot down. Mean while I loitered low destroying men and equipment a like taking a hell of a beating. In my rail tank it takes 3-4 shots to bring one down, unless its you know a crap fit. If you can't get out of dodge in that time it's your fault.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9274	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:48:00 - [69] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So Judge says remove them because they whack anything into dust, does that mean we remove snipers aswell which whack anything infantry into dust because they have a clear view of the map? The only difference here is that not only can the sniper not kill vehicles or installations, his fit generally costs as much or more than the red line tank. You also can't one shot kill that red line tank, and the -only- counter is to call in your own sica that you didn't skill into, and hope he doesn't see you, and even if he does, he can generally just recall before you kill him. I also wish people would shut up about needing wicked strong militia tanks to try tanks. You can get into a standard tank in your first week of play, militia should suck ball waffles and only be to give you a feel for the vehicles, not a no SP kill machine that takes out vehicles installations and dropsuits of all quality. Infantry militia items =/= vehicle militia items The main issue though is giving someone the ability to get kills and shut down entire branches of play from a zone that makes you all but immune to death. That is a balance issue, it has been a balance issue, and will continue to be a balance issue until it is fixed. The only time someone should be totally safe is when they're totally removed from combat. If you can still kill, you should be just as vulnerable to being killed as everyone else. Vids / O7
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4850	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:54:00 - [70] - Quote Reduce it's fire rate, projectile speed and give it drop like the PLC. Bam, it actually takes skill to use, magic. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9275	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:56:00 - [71] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Reduce it's fire rate, projectile speed and give it drop like the PLC. Bam, it actually takes skill to use, magic. I'd rather they just add damage falloff like an above poster said. I've said the exact same thing about forge guns for....forever. That alone would pretty much fix the problem, making red line tanks only good at harassment, matching the reward to the risk they take. Vids / O7
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4850	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:56:00 - [72] - Quote Also, this is clear proof of Caldari master race. CCP just loves Caldari. Caldari weapons tend to be OP as **** Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 227	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:58:00 - [73] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well tankers are the princesses of dust... fact. Most of them aren't very pretty though.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 286	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:58:00 - [74] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So Judge says remove them because they whack anything into dust, does that mean we remove snipers aswell which whack anything infantry into dust because they have a clear view of the map? The only difference here is that not only can the sniper not kill vehicles or installations, his fit generally costs as much or more than the red line tank. You also can't one shot kill that red line tank, and the -only- counter is to call in your own sica that you didn't skill into, and hope he doesn't see you, and even if he does, he can generally just recall before you kill him. I also wish people would shut up about needing wicked strong militia tanks to try tanks. You can get into a standard tank in your first week of play, militia should suck ball waffles and only be to give you a feel for the vehicles, not a no SP kill machine that takes out vehicles installations and dropsuits of all quality. Infantry militia items =/= vehicle militia items The main issue though is giving someone the ability to get kills and shut down entire branches of play from a zone that makes you all but immune to death. That is a balance issue, it has been a balance issue, and will continue to be a balance issue until it is fixed. The only time someone should be totally safe is when they're totally removed from combat. If you can still kill, you should be just as vulnerable to being killed as everyone else. Henchmen21 wrote: Eh, I flew my alt ADS for half the day yesterday, of the two I lost one was my own stupidity and the other was shot down. Mean while I loitered low destroying men and equipment a like taking a hell of a beating. In my rail tank it takes 3-4 shots to bring one down, unless its you know a crap fit. If you can't get out of dodge in that time it's your fault. Sounds like you have a bad tank, and believe it or not, you aren't the only player who can call one into the red line. Telling a dropship to fly in circles all match because you called in a free tank in the immunity zone is just stupid. I tend to lead DS's too far after gunning for tanks with their new speeds so they tend to get a change to rep a bit on me. But I don't bother with DS's unless they attack me directly or cause me some sort of loss. If I am bringing out my rail tank it's either to take out other tanks or to clear out turrets so I can fly with fewer things able to shoot at me. Either way my ADS can take a beating and that was the main point of my post.
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 606	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:01:00 - [75] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. railguns are just massively OP, they do too much damage, and their clip size needs to be nerfed to 3. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2014	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:02:00 - [76] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So Judge says remove them because they whack anything into dust, does that mean we remove snipers aswell which whack anything infantry into dust because they have a clear view of the map? The only difference here is that not only can the sniper not kill vehicles or installations, his fit generally costs as much or more than the red line tank. You also can't one shot kill that red line tank, and the -only- counter is to call in your own sica that you didn't skill into, and hope he doesn't see you, and even if he does, he can generally just recall before you kill him. I also wish people would shut up about needing wicked strong militia tanks to try tanks. You can get into a standard tank in your first week of play, militia should suck ball waffles and only be to give you a feel for the vehicles, not a no SP kill machine that takes out vehicles installations and dropsuits of all quality. Infantry militia items =/= vehicle militia items The main issue though is giving someone the ability to get kills and shut down entire branches of play from a zone that makes you all but immune to death. That is a balance issue, it has been a balance issue, and will continue to be a balance issue until it is fixed. The only time someone should be totally safe is when they're totally removed from combat. If you can still kill, you should be just as vulnerable to being killed as everyone else. . My redline tank is proto fit and is about 500k because ts fit to do the job in 1 shot or 2 at the most so that sniper has to use all proto to get even half of the ISK price, thales tho more expenisve because officer, i hope for an officer turret one day Militia tanks against proper tanks are not wicked strong, but fall asleep and they will destroy you just like BPO dropsuits can do, if they do get nerfed then they generally wont be used at all like for the past 6months so you might aswell remove them The main issue also effects snipers but because its a tank is not the same thing? Intelligence is OP
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9278	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:20:00 - [77] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The main issue also effects snipers but because its a tank is not the same thing? Exactly. Fix it for snipers too, I don't really care. Only bad people complain about red line snipers since, forever ago, because they don't cause anywhere near as much havoc as red line rail tanks do. Give rail technology fall off damage, problem solved Vids / O7
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 213	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:33:00 - [78] - Quote Problem with assault dropships - they are DROPSHIPS not assault ships or some real battle air vehicles (flying battle school bus). Joke is good when you say it first time, but if you keep telling it 10 times in row to same ppl... Air vehicles in Dust is a joke. That problem partially solved here. Biggest problem in Dust 514 balance - maps, CCP realy badly screwed up Unreal engine with that "map generator" & they have absolutely worthless map designers. Weapon & vehicle vs infantry balance is strongly affected by overall map design, structure locations, installation lacations. Too much open space, no underground (labirynth) communications, almost no cover, architecture is silly... etc, etc, etc. You can keep nerfing & buffing weapons & vehicles - it will be never ending cyrcle, without good maps. Where you keep getting stuck almost on every centimeter of that map (even when you fly). & there is even not complete base set of them for each race, that makes it even harder to balance. CCP realy likes dancing in that stupid cyrcles for years... do they even have some QA or something like testing team (preferably with brains)? -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1704	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:36:00 - [79] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. Really? I was shooting an incubus earlier (with a proto rail) and it just wouldn't die. I gave up after a few attemps and let him do his thing. I honestly think you're problem is with the stationary redline rail turrets (those are ******* annoying to anyone and everything) Going to stay out of AV/V debates, better for my sanity. GÿåTank driverGÿå
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 303	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:38:00 - [80] - Quote I thought about this problem today while playing, and just realised they shouldn't have maps surrounded by hills... ever. Have the redline below sea level, so that anyone who chooses to hang around in the redline, can't see or shoot anything,ever. It's a simple map modification and no fancy mechanics involved.

Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1705	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:40:00 - [81] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I might not say they need to be removed all together, but I definitely get the sentiment. Many of these maps they can roll so far back that you can't even use a dropship packed with remote explosives to kill them. They're too far back to kill with anything but a railgun and an orbital at the same time. Try to kill them with a railgun, they recall. Try to kill them with an orbital, they roll backwards. The fact that anyone can call in a railgun installation in the redline with two damage amps for 60k is definitely a big part of the problem. Shooting from the redline is the problem, it's not just with tanks Going to stay out of AV/V debates, better for my sanity. GÿåTank driverGÿå
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9280	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:46:00 - [82] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I might not say they need to be removed all together, but I definitely get the sentiment. Many of these maps they can roll so far back that you can't even use a dropship packed with remote explosives to kill them. They're too far back to kill with anything but a railgun and an orbital at the same time. Try to kill them with a railgun, they recall. Try to kill them with an orbital, they roll backwards. The fact that anyone can call in a railgun installation in the redline with two damage amps for 60k is definitely a big part of the problem. Shooting from the redline is the problem, it's not just with tanks But it's most obvious with tanks. I've basically never ever had an issue with red line snipers, ever (except for when Manus had the peak, that was annoying) Rail technology needs falloff damage like everything else, or dropships need to be able to fly into enemy red zones. Vids / O7
Foxhound Elite The Rainbow Effect 597	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:50:00 - [83] - Quote Here here, Judge. I was there flying with you when we were spammed by a volley of railgun projectiles, setting me on fire making me retreat to our own redline. What if they increased the aerial red-line size? It would allow us to go deeper into the enemies red-line, assault the tank itself or even drop 2-4 guys with AV grenades, swarms, forges etc. ? Now I know you'll think ; "then dropships could kill us at our spawn when we're red-lined" ... well, .. yes. sweet kills. sweet delicious kills.. nah, i'm only joking, that would be unfair from the infantries persective; BUT, they could whip out AV to that effect. It's a bit of a pickle & it's costing me Pythons. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2591	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:17:00 - [84] - Quote The redline gives the low tank/high gank rails the protection they need to terrorize the entire map. It is this unnatural protection that allows them to dominate. Make them enter the shared battlefield beforehand they can be effective. Bowl maps must go. That just allows snipers of all stripes to perch on the rim and hit anything inside, like shooting fish in a barrel. Those two actions would go a long way to restoring balance.
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:25:00 - [85] - Quote Megamix Chemist wrote: Bump +1 Range needs to be addressed, maybe the rails round travels so fast it gets too hot and implodes after a certain distance or sharpens down to a smaller round doing less damage, maybe not but there should be a solution. or after the round travels X amount of distance it becomes unstable and begins to corkscrew, idk.. just throwing idea out there. i was feeling this exact same thing a couple days ago. I parked my DS's after being redlined railed 2 matches in a row. it got me thinking how broken and how much i hate the redline. it totally makes this game feel juvenile, not like a CCP game. this game is supposed to be something special but a redline is totally cliche` that we've been tolerating for waaaay too long. you can't remove a redline tho and have a max count of 32 players given the current mechanics and no obvious plan to bottleneck them i remember reading a conceptual about this game a couple years ago and they made it sound like there would be no redline that you would have to go out with a dropship and scan down the enemy or something. It all sounded really great and groundbreaking, instead we are slapped in the face with a little arena shooter with it's cute little redline so scrubs can kill from it. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:38:00 - [86] - Quote What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9288	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:40:00 - [87] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? Vids / O7
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:40:00 - [88] - Quote You know this thread is just full of people that are complaining about anyone and anything that kills them. You will die. Adapt. My goodness.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:41:00 - [89] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9288	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:43:00 - [90] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do? It's not useless at all, my assault dropship gets an average of like 15-20 kills plus vehicle kills, unless one or two sica park so far in the red line I can't even get them with a suicide dropship packed with RE's (which is obnoxiously hard to do, btw). Maybe you're a bad pilot, but some of us aren't, we just get shut down by mechanics, rather than our opponents skill. Vids / O7

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:46:00 - [91] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do? It's not useless at all, my assault dropship gets an average of like 15-20 kills plus vehicle kills, unless one or two sica park so far in the red line I can't even get them with a suicide dropship packed with RE's (which is obnoxiously hard to do, btw). Maybe you're a bad pilot, but some of us aren't, we just get shut down by mechanics, rather than our opponents skill. Its not that I am a bad pilot, I DONT pilot. I haven't used a DS since the Assault dropship came out. I used many, lost lots of isk to forge guns and deemed them useless.(This was back in what 1.3 / 1.4 maybe?) Ok so now you are saying they work wonders.... but you are moaning that a rail tank counters you? So what is it, a good asset that gets lots of kills or is it useless?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9288	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:47:00 - [92] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Its not that I am a bad pilot, I DONT pilot. I haven't used a DS since the Assault dropship came out. I used many, lost lots of isk to forge guns and deemed them useless.(This was back in what 1.3 / 1.4 maybe?) Ok so now you are saying they work wonders.... but you are moaning that a rail tank counters you? So what is it, a good asset that gets lots of kills or is it useless? You aren't really up to speed with what this thread is actually about, are you. Vids / O7
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 287	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:51:00 - [93] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do? It's not useless at all, my assault dropship gets an average of like 15-20 kills plus vehicle kills, unless one or two sica park so far in the red line I can't even get them with a suicide dropship packed with RE's (which is obnoxiously hard to do, btw). Maybe you're a bad pilot, but some of us aren't, we just get shut down by mechanics, rather than our opponents skill. So you get 15-20 kills and are complaining when people retaliate?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:56:00 - [94] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do? It's not useless at all, my assault dropship gets an average of like 15-20 kills plus vehicle kills, unless one or two sica park so far in the red line I can't even get them with a suicide dropship packed with RE's (which is obnoxiously hard to do, btw). Maybe you're a bad pilot, but some of us aren't, we just get shut down by mechanics, rather than our opponents skill. So you get 15-20 kills and are complaining when people retaliate? That's the point I'm trying to get at. All I can see in this thread is that railguns counter dropships. (Btw CommanderBolt is NOT a tanker) I run around in militia medic starter fits.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 187	Posted - 2013.12.21 18:00:00 - [95] - Quote CommanderBolt, the issue is redline rail-tanks: that is, a counter that is uncounterable. There is no method of preventing rail-tanks from dominating an area, and there is no way of retaliating because of an arbitrary (red)line drawn in the sand that prevents you from venturing across, yet they are still allowed to sit back and blast away. The issue is not, "Railguns kill dropships, waah!" it's, "Redline railguns kill [anything] without being exposed to any danger whatsoever beyond other railguns." As many people have said on various other topics, a powerful asset should not be the counter to itself.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9288	Posted - 2013.12.21 18:03:00 - [96] - Quote Vehicle recall is a HUGE part of the issue too. I'm gonna make a brief video of this match after this match to just show how stupid it is in tank vs dropship balance Vids / O7
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9288	Posted - 2013.12.21 18:43:00 - [97] - Quote Scratch that, this is so ***** ****. If he's not completely **** he just rolls backwards and you can't even kill him with a *** railgun, and you just sit in a *** tank all game while his allies call in more free railguns in the redline, and you either don't fly your dropship because you're using a stupid ass railgun to try to use your dropship, or you don't use your dropship because you're flying in circles all match, or you don't use your dropship because it's being exploded by redline rail tanks. This game is *** ******. Vids / O7
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9290	Posted - 2013.12.21 18:49:00 - [98] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I will take the silence as confirmation of everyone's lack of patience when it comes to explaining basic concepts to me Vids / O7
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1023	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:14:00 - [99] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: You know this thread is just full of people that are complaining about anyone and anything that kills them. You will die. Adapt. My goodness. You have an opinion. And that is grand. Thanks. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9306	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:16:00 - [100] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: You know this thread is just full of people that are complaining about anyone and anything that kills them. You will die. Adapt. My goodness. You have an opinion. And that is grand. Thanks. I'm at my whits end right now. I'm so happy I'm getting some new games for christmas, I need a break from this ****. I only enjoy flying now, and red line railguns just make it to too stressful and not enjoyable at all. Even if you jump through the crazy amount of hoops required to kill them, they just call in another because you can afford 3-4 damage stacked sica's per match before losing ISK. Is it so much to ask for them to risk their ISK like I have to? If all else fails, you can recall three times over in the time it would take the dropship to kill your tank. This game is giving me diabetes. Vids / O7

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1023	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:22:00 - [101] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm at my whits end right now. I'm so happy I'm getting some new games for christmas, I need a break from this ****. I only enjoy flying now, and red line railguns just make it to too stressful and not enjoyable at all. Even if you jump through the crazy amount of hoops required to kill them, they just call in another because you can afford 3-4 damage stacked sica's per match before losing ISK. Is it so much to ask for them to risk their ISK like I have to? If all else fails, you can recall three times over in the time it would take the dropship to kill your tank. . I understand the feeling mate. Please come back. Even if it's in a months time. We need experiance pilots like you to make it better for pilots in the future. Imagine if no-one tried to make things better, to stand up for the new guys or those that can't get heard. Hope to see you (although we have never ended up in a game together - on now btw) when you have had your rest. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9306	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:26:00 - [102] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm at my whits end right now. I'm so happy I'm getting some new games for christmas, I need a break from this **. I only enjoy flying now, and red line railguns just make it to too stressful and not enjoyable at all. Even if you jump through the crazy amount of hoops required to kill them, they just call in another because you can afford 3-4 damage stacked sica's per match before losing ISK. Is it so much to ask for them to risk their ISK like I have to? If all else fails, you can recall three times over in the time it would take the dropship to kill your tank. . I understand the feeling mate. Please come back. Even if it's in a months time. We need experiance pilots like you to make it better for pilots in the future. Imagine if no-one tried to make things better, to stand up for the new guys or those that can't get heard. Hope to see you (although we have never ended up in a game together - on now btw) when you have had your rest. I have a disease that doesn't let me quit DUST, I just need to seriously cut back on my game time for now. I want to provide solid feedback and I'm just so frustrated by things that I can't do that. It's just nice to know I'm not alone in this nightmare. I've campaigned for dropships for well over a year, it's just finally taking its toll on me I guess. And to any idiots who think we don't want stuff to kill us, WRONG! I want swarms and plasma cannons buffed, and I want railguns to still scare the out of me, I just want the option to FIGHT BACK. No one should be given general immunity while being a threat to the battlefield, infantry and vehicles alike. Fix the ***** redline CCP Vids / O7
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 512	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:28:00 - [103] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm at my whits end right now. I'm so happy I'm getting some new games for christmas, I need a break from this **. I only enjoy flying now, and red line railguns just make it to too stressful and not enjoyable at all. Even if you jump through the crazy amount of hoops required to kill them, they just call in another because you can afford 3-4 damage stacked sica's per match before losing ISK. Is it so much to ask for them to risk their ISK like I have to? If all else fails, you can recall three times over in the time it would take the dropship to kill your tank. . I understand the feeling mate. Please come back. Even if it's in a months time. We need experiance pilots like you to make it better for pilots in the future. Imagine if no-one tried to make things better, to stand up for the new guys or those that can't get heard. Hope to see you (although we have never ended up in a game together - on now btw) when you have had your rest. I have a disease that doesn't let me quit DUST, I just need to seriously cut back on my game time for now. I want to provide solid feedback and I'm just so frustrated by things that I can't do that. It's just nice to know I'm not alone in this nightmare. I've campaigned for dropships for well over a year, it's just finally taking its toll on me I guess. And to any idiots who think we don't want stuff to kill us, WRONG! I want swarms and plasma cannons buffed, and I want railguns to still scare the out of me, I just want the option to FIGHT BACK. No one should be given general immunity while being a threat to the battlefield, infantry and vehicles alike. Fix the ***** redline CCP I used to have that disease... then GTA V came out... Lol, although i do now find myself playing Dust occasionally again. And if railgun tanks were to be fixed, it would pretty much be half & half.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 7	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:33:00 - [104] - Quote No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1294	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:38:00 - [105] - Quote Redline sniping of any kind is a problem, thats fair enough. But since I have been tanking a lot more recently, I have tried taking out dropship myself, its not an easy feat, especially with rails travel time is a big factor and not easy to adjust for. Secondly you are in an Assault Dropship, your primary role is transportation not aerial combat, that said I still think dropships need a HP buff to make them a little more hardy, they need to be able to take sustained fire when deploying troops in hotzones. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9310	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:39:00 - [106] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Forge guns are still excellent vs dropships if you can aim, and swarm launchers are in desperate need of a buff in general, preferably to lock on range and projectile speed. The plasma cannon is just garbage that needs to be worked on more, and which would also benefit from added projectile speed. The issue isn't railguns themselves, it's with railgun tanks so far in the redline that they're all but immune to destruction, especially when you consider vehicle recall, or that a DAY ONE character can call in 3-4 damaged stacked Sica's per match. Vids / O7
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 277	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:41:00 - [107] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. .... +1...... even though you took it pretty far.... but i agree tanks should not be able to snipe from over 75m. ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 244	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:43:00 - [108] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Forge guns are still excellent vs dropships if you can aim, and swarm launchers are in desperate need of a buff in general, preferably to lock on range and projectile speed. The plasma cannon is just garbage that needs to be worked on more, and which would also benefit from added projectile speed. The issue isn't railguns themselves, it's with railgun tanks so far in the redline that they're all but immune to destruction, especially when you consider vehicle recall, or that a DAY ONE character can call in 3-4 damaged stacked Sica's per match. We need players like you and Judge in the game, Judges videos actually learned me to fly dropship.
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 308	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:01:00 - [109] - Quote Judge, I completely sympathize. I find myself using a tank alt with a blaster turret all the time now. I keep a rail turret fit specifically for annoying dropships. Thing is, dropships only annoy me in my tank. They don't do anything to me. If CCP fixed that, then redline rail tank sniping dropships might be okay. I suggest giving all dropships a way to pound holes into tanks and then alter railtank fire to arc over long distances so they still counter dropships but not insta gib them.
Taz-666 The Rainbow Effect 24	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:09:00 - [110] - Quote Sorry if anyone else has posted this as I'm just commenting on the original post. Instead of changing Rails or tanks how about remove the redline. On initial spawn you get a 2 min counter to allow time to leave the home redline area and after that you are subject to the same play area and same countdown as the apposing team. This would not be limited to just vehicles but infantry as well and means those wishing to snipe with tanks, Forge Guns or Sniper rifles would have to take care as they could be vunerable to flanking tatics. A shared redline may improve the gameplay in objective based modes because if you can't just hide in the redline you may have the incentive to push out; use drop links and cap CRUs or letters to maintain your options. Maybe CCP would consider running a new Skirmish mode with shared redline with extended timer for initial spawn in the same way they originally ran Ambush and Ambush OMS to allow players to try a changed format whilst CCP collated feedback.

Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:32:00 - [111] - Quote Sooooooo......we're now complaining about the only Skillshot Weapon Systems left in DUST??? Derpships simply want no Counter...........they already got rid of Swarms. The PLC & AV Nades don't even reach you FFS!!!! with Hardeners & Overboost a *SKILLED* Dropship Pilot is essentially Invincible..... Flight Ceiling Abuse + Speed + Free Range of Motion/Maneuverability + Cover = Invulnerable Spawn Point or.....in the case of ADS, a Distraction with the ability to DPS. But no......FG & Rails need to go This is why I H8 DUST..... It's a Cespool Spawn Point for the worst type of Gamer..... PS: As an Armor Tanker who wants a Swarm Buff (GASP!!! Did he just say that???) I'd have to say the problem is YOU!!!!! ALL OF YOU ARE F*KING TRASH SCUM WHINY INCONSIDERATE SHTSTAINS ON THE TITLE OF "GAMER"!!!! FK DUST....& FK ALL OF YOU!!!!!
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 464	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:35:00 - [112] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Problem with assault dropships - they are DROPSHIPS not assault ships or some real battle air vehicles (flying battle school bus). Joke is good when you say it first time, but if you keep telling it 10 times in row to same ppl... Air vehicles in Dust is a joke. So they are assault dropships but not assault ships? look the assault dropship was designed to be a faster harder hitting variant of the dropship. It can't carry as many troops but it has more fire power and better handling. It is a "real battle air vehicle" a skilled pilot with a skilled crew can be a serious threat. They aren't a joke to me, being a dedicated pilot and all, but thank you for belittling my role...
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:39:00 - [113] - Quote If you Scrubs want to blame anything on anything.....look 1st at Map Design. FFS.....I honestly believe that 1 Map with the Bridge holding A, that leads to B & D Building, with the huge Chasm below.....was made on Sim City for the SNES. I could Splash Blob a better Map using MS Paint
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3427	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:47:00 - [114] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. No. Take out blaster turrets and let tankers have it at each other. Of course.... Something that hinders tank spam is considered a problem by judge,but not something that breaks balance over infantry? Heh, biased. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 464	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:49:00 - [115] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Sooooooo......we're now complaining about the only Skillshot Weapon Systems left in DUST??? Derpships simply want no Counter...........they already got rid of Swarms. The PLC & AV Nades don't even reach you FFS!!!! with Hardeners & Overboost a *SKILLED* Dropship Pilot is essentially Invincible..... Flight Ceiling Abuse + Speed + Free Range of Motion/Maneuverability + Cover = Invulnerable Spawn Point or.....in the case of ADS, a Distraction with the ability to DPS. But no......FG & Rails need to go This is why I H8 DUST..... It's a Cespool Spawn Point for the worst type of Gamer..... PS: As an Armor Tanker who wants a Swarm Buff (GASP!!! Did he just say that???) I'd have to say the problem is YOU!!!!! ALL OF YOU ARE F*KING TRASH SCUM WHINY INCONSIDERATE SHTSTAINS ON THE TITLE OF "GAMER"!!!! FK DUST....& FK ALL OF YOU!!!!! I would agree that rail tanks were skill shot weapons if they actually came out of the red line and be in the fight. Otherwise you might as well just be on a turret. I'm a pilot who wants swarms to get a little more damage and forge guns to get their charge Time back GASP I think rail tank could be more balanced if they couldn't shoot from the red, because that's bullish!t and you know it. Please remember that tankers have been the ones complaining so loudly about av which is one of the reasons we are here in 1.7. I want av and dropships to have good interesting fights based on skill. Something we are getting close to. Also this is how I imagined you when you were rolling around in your tank, screaming f*ck all of you to everyone as you slaughtered. Well F#CK you too guy for being such an @ss.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:58:00 - [116] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Sooooooo......we're now complaining about the only Skillshot Weapon Systems left in DUST??? Derpships simply want no Counter...........they already got rid of Swarms. The PLC & AV Nades don't even reach you FFS!!!! with Hardeners & Overboost a *SKILLED* Dropship Pilot is essentially Invincible..... Flight Ceiling Abuse + Speed + Free Range of Motion/Maneuverability + Cover = Invulnerable Spawn Point or.....in the case of ADS, a Distraction with the ability to DPS. But no......FG & Rails need to go This is why I H8 DUST..... It's a Cespool Spawn Point for the worst type of Gamer..... PS: As an Armor Tanker who wants a Swarm Buff (GASP!!! Did he just say that???) I'd have to say the problem is YOU!!!!! ALL OF YOU ARE F*KING TRASH SCUM WHINY INCONSIDERATE SHTSTAINS ON THE TITLE OF "GAMER"!!!! FK DUST....& FK ALL OF YOU!!!!! I would agree that rail tanks were skill shot weapons if they actually came out of the red line and be in the fight. Otherwise you might as well just be on a turret. I'm a pilot who wants swarms to get a little more damage and forge guns to get their charge Time back GASP I think rail tank could be more balanced if they couldn't shoot from the red, because that's bullish!t and you know it. Please remember that tankers have been the ones complaining so loudly about av which is one of the reasons we are here in 1.7. I want av and dropships to have good interesting fights based on skill. Something we are getting close to. Also this is how I imagined you when you were rolling around in your tank, screaming fck all of you to everyone as you slaughtered. Well F#CK you too guy for being such an @ss. I go F2F with my Rails..... I get Rail Kills well within a Shotgun's Optimal Range FFS. & the only reason I even hop on anymore is to get my SP, make all of you Bums broke, then GTFO & find greener pastures.....any pasture'll do. So F*K you for being a Scrublet
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1109	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:00:00 - [117] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Because having RGs popping Dropships in 2 shots from the redline being the primary defense is obviously balanced. How about making other options worth using? Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 7	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:02:00 - [118] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Sooooooo......we're now complaining about the only Skillshot Weapon Systems left in DUST??? Derpships simply want no Counter...........they already got rid of Swarms. The PLC & AV Nades don't even reach you FFS!!!! with Hardeners & Overboost a *SKILLED* Dropship Pilot is essentially Invincible..... Flight Ceiling Abuse + Speed + Free Range of Motion/Maneuverability + Cover = Invulnerable Spawn Point or.....in the case of ADS, a Distraction with the ability to DPS. But no......FG & Rails need to go This is why I H8 DUST..... It's a Cespool Spawn Point for the worst type of Gamer..... PS: As an Armor Tanker who wants a Swarm Buff (GASP!!! Did he just say that???) I'd have to say the problem is YOU!!!!! ALL OF YOU ARE F*KING TRASH SCUM WHINY INCONSIDERATE SHTSTAINS ON THE TITLE OF "GAMER"!!!! FK DUST....& FK ALL OF YOU!!!!! Aside from the profanity-ridden rant, I agree. Too many players in dust want to rely on their skillpoints and when they realize that their invested skillpoints don't help too much against skilled PLAYERS (i.e people who practice, people who use tactics, people who focus more on mastering the game controls rather than the "click to buy this skill option"-solution to every problem), they come here and whine to CCP about how "broken" this or that is. Like some people in this thread have already pointed out: hitting a dropship in flight at a long distance is not an easy feat. The raikgun has a considerable travel time to it's target, as does the forge gun. It takes skill to hit something in motion far away. And even if you hit, it's no guarantee that you can take the dropship down because the pilot can just activate hardeners, boosters etc. And just pull up and away out of harms way. But theres just no satisfying you dropship pilots. You seem to demand that you should be invincible in the air and be able to pick off ground targets at your lesiure without the slightest risk of being shot down. And your motivation to this? "Why I spent sooo many skillpoints at flying dropships so its only "fair" that I should be utterly invincible in the air!" Complaining that railtanks are OP because they can shoot down dropships from far away is equal to saying that sniper rifles are OP because they can insta-kill infantry from far away (maybe). With emphasis on "CAN", because you still have to be a skilled player to pull it off.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 7	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:13:00 - [119] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Because having RGs popping Dropships in 2 shots from the redline being the primary defense is obviously balanced. How about making other options worth using? No, but it's a start. The redline is what needs to go if anything (serves no purpose anyway). Not the railtanks. Also, you can be thankful that dust514 is a pretty retar-ded version of future warfare. Because in the real world there are man-portable fire-and-forget missile launchers (akin to the swarm launcher) that can pop pretty much any kind of aircraft with one shot. The fact that you have to have skill in aiming and timing to even have a hope of popping a drop ship in flight from far away was something they had to do back in WW2 ffs.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 460	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:17:00 - [120] - Quote Remove the redline. It's archaic and serves only to give unfair advantages to certain play styles. /thread

TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 354	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:18:00 - [121] - Quote finally someone sees why i don't run my dropship all the time like a want to. i'll be having a good time and the enemy will call in 3 little sicas that i can't do nothing about and end me. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3428	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:20:00 - [122] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: finally someone sees why i don't run my dropship all the time like a want to. i'll be having a good time and the enemy will call in 3 little sicas that i can't do nothing about and end me. 3? Last time i checked in a dom game the enemy had 4 sicas and around 2-3 maddies killing infantry. We couldnt deploy Anything at all and even getting out of the red line was almost impossible. You had to run past rail tanks and Snipers, To then evade the Blaster Maddies/somas To the FIGHT infantry to then attempt a suicide hack on the objective Man , what a crappy game that was.... AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 200	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:21:00 - [123] - Quote Arent rails supposed to be av? I mean...thats kinda their thing. Their rotation speed isnt fast enough to track lav's (without turning the body of the tank as well anyway) and they are ranged yes. But isnt this their intended function? They seem to be fine honestly. Ive only been killed twice outside a vehicle by a manned railgun. Though ai rails are annoying occasionally Dedicated scout. New player tutor; scout instructor Scrambler Pistol dedication
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2384	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:21:00 - [124] - Quote It reads as if people just want the game adjusted to them...all the time. Dust 514 witch hunts. Now the issue is recall? Now we should remove redlines? Are people thinking about the whole scope or the narrow view of what affects their gameplay?? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1294	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:26:00 - [125] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Because having RGs popping Dropships in 2 shots from the redline being the primary defense is obviously balanced. How about making other options worth using? Yes but that is like saying AV is balanced when the best method is an ELAV. The only REAL problem is the redline. Rail Tanks are just the start, we are meant to get access to full blown artillery, long range bombardment is valid tactic, what's wrong is the ability to do this from a SAFE ZONE. Its that it can be done from a location where the user can't be retailiated against. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 574	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:28:00 - [126] - Quote Its strange that i seem to not be thinking anything is OP lately The redline railgun snipers all die to my own railgun sniper quite easily, often they bring another in to try and deal with me, we hit that also. Dropships do seem to die quickly to them i agree but the reward of you having your dropship in is perhaps 20-30 kills, cant have that much power without some risk surely? We seem to want to try to make Dust 514 a simple 'rock paper scissors' exercise but i think most people have this entirely wrong, if they call in a tank, i also will call in a tank, they use a dropship to get on high, i also will do the same. Often its about smacking down an enemy so that they stop doing something (thales snipers being killed by miltia shotgunners for example) The endless call for this and that to be nerfed / buffed only ever destabilizes the game further i am afraid. sometimes things are best left not messed with as this entire forum for about a year has been a diatribe of nerf posts and frankly its getting dull.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1112	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:30:00 - [127] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships. I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Because having RGs popping Dropships in 2 shots from the redline being the primary defense is obviously balanced. How about making other options worth using? Yes but that is like saying AV is balanced when the best method is an ELAV. The only REAL problem is the redline. Rail Tanks are just the start, we are meant to get access to full blown artillery, long range bombardment is valid tactic, what's wrong is the ability to do this from a SAFE ZONE. Its that it can be done from a location where the user can't be retailiated against. Agreed that the redline is the problem. I'm just pointing out that because normal AV has a problem taking out Dropships, he thinks anything that anything that drops them like flies is completely balanced. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2384	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:32:00 - [128] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Its strange that i seem to not be thinking anything is OP lately The redline railgun snipers all die to my own railgun sniper quite easily, often they bring another in to try and deal with me, we hit that also. Dropships do seem to die quickly to them i agree but the reward of you having your dropship in is perhaps 20-30 kills, cant have that much power without some risk surely? We seem to want to try to make Dust 514 a simple 'rock paper scissors' exercise but i think most people have this entirely wrong, if they call in a tank, i also will call in a tank, they use a dropship to get on high, i also will do the same. Often its about smacking down an enemy so that they stop doing something (thales snipers being killed by miltia shotgunners for example) The endless call for this and that to be nerfed / buffed only ever destabilizes the game further i am afraid. sometimes things are best left not messed with as this entire forum for about a year has been a diatribe of nerf posts and frankly its getting dull. Some people got the right mentality about things. Overcome the odds. There's always a way possible Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Tectonic Fusion 770	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:37:00 - [129] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. I use the mititia, and it took like 6-8 shots to kill an armor tanked one, but because he repped to fast He got away, and I had to chase him to kill him. But they should just nerf the proto so it takes 4 shots to kill them, because it's not that hard to activate your injector and GTFO. It's like a Thales sniper vs a full prototype player. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1296	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:39:00 - [130] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Its strange that i seem to not be thinking anything is OP lately The redline railgun snipers all die to my own railgun sniper quite easily, often they bring another in to try and deal with me, we hit that also. Dropships do seem to die quickly to them i agree but the reward of you having your dropship in is perhaps 20-30 kills, cant have that much power without some risk surely? We seem to want to try to make Dust 514 a simple 'rock paper scissors' exercise but i think most people have this entirely wrong, if they call in a tank, i also will call in a tank, they use a dropship to get on high, i also will do the same. Often its about smacking down an enemy so that they stop doing something (thales snipers being killed by miltia shotgunners for example) The endless call for this and that to be nerfed / buffed only ever destabilizes the game further i am afraid. sometimes things are best left not messed with as this entire forum for about a year has been a diatribe of nerf posts and frankly its getting dull. The idea of the rock paper sciccors is about having circular gameplay. In your example, they get a tank, you get a tank, you win, they get a dropship you get a dropship you win. Now if you stop there as in you succesfully stop them fielding dropships,mwhat then? You have a clear cut winner often from very early on in the match. Instead you want rock paper sciccors because every concievable combo of rock paper sciccors will have another combo it can beat. So instead they get a tank, make push, you get a tank, you repel them, they get a dropship make a push, you get fighters to repel them(because you tried dropships and lost) they get AA to counter, you get infantry AV to counter, they get infantry, you get tanks. Thus the cycle never ends, the battle turns into a game of skill and attrition, about what is applied where. Thats why we want a rock paper sciccors philosophy, because it is better than escalation. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 576	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:39:00 - [131] - Quote A further thought, So many of the 'nerf this and that' posts are also pretty much one sided in their arguments, so for example if we nerfed railguns, dropships would likely be almost impossible to kill (lets face it, good pilots with hardners etc make them pretty tough already) So in the above scenario, if railguns were nerfed, we would see a tidal wave of "DROPSHIPS ARE SO OP OMG NERF THEM" posts CCP cannot win, we are a terribly single minded, short sighted community who care about our own guns, suits, modules and vehicles, and anything that shoots us down / kills us with perceived (wrongly) ease, we flame about it needing a nerf. I will stick my neck out and say true balance cannot be achieved, this isnt starcraft and the sooner we just accept that a cruise missile is going to be more OP than a TOW missile, the more we will grow as a community and stop whinging about Utopian balance. (i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content)
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1113	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:46:00 - [132] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Its strange that i seem to not be thinking anything is OP lately The redline railgun snipers all die to my own railgun sniper quite easily, often they bring another in to try and deal with me, we hit that also. Dropships do seem to die quickly to them i agree but the reward of you having your dropship in is perhaps 20-30 kills, cant have that much power without some risk surely? We seem to want to try to make Dust 514 a simple 'rock paper scissors' exercise but i think most people have this entirely wrong, if they call in a tank, i also will call in a tank, they use a dropship to get on high, i also will do the same. Often its about smacking down an enemy so that they stop doing something (thales snipers being killed by miltia shotgunners for example) The endless call for this and that to be nerfed / buffed only ever destabilizes the game further i am afraid. sometimes things are best left not messed with as this entire forum for about a year has been a diatribe of nerf posts and frankly its getting dull. So, when the enemy drops 6 fully kitted out HAVs, I'm guessing you just deploy your own RG HAV and pop them all, right? Also, having "rock counters rock" forces every team to have equal amounts of everything just to have a balanced match dependent on some modicum of skill and tactics rather than "They have only 1 Rock, deploy 5 Rocks and we can smash everything else!" Basically, you want whoever deploys the best tanks to win every battle, which is what happens now, especially in Ambush. Have you seen Ambush? I guess when the 6 HAVs with 20.0 K/Ds are rolling out in a mode all about K/D, you just say "I'll deploy my rail tank right in the center of these 6 tanks, hope it doesn't get instantly popped on deployment, roll all the way to the redline and pop all 6 of them through their modules while also preventing them from mowing down all the infantry shooting marshmallows at them!" Obviously, Ambush is a somewhat laughable mode as it is, but this extends to all the other modes to some extent. The only time I don't need to worry about the enemy team deploying several HAVs and rolling over everything is when I, myself, am in a tank squad. Not every one is in a tank squad nor should they need to be to not get stomped. If there are no enemy tanks, I just cycle my hardeners and crush everything. I've gotten mails saying people are quitting because of all the tanks stomping the crap out of them on my side. Yet, the problem does not exist and is purely forum banter. OK. --- As for pilots being too powerful without redline rail sniping, well, that's again because the balance sucks. Maybe if AV were worth a damn against decent dropships we could implement it just fine. Also, what about using dropships to fight dropships? I thought you believed in rock beats rock. What's the problem, just deploy a dropship and smack him down? They deploy 3 tanks, you deploy 3 tanks, they deploy 3 dropships, you deploy... wait, you're out of dropship pilots so now they win. Which is why you want tanks to take out dropships. Yet tank balance is fine with only tanks taking out other tanks. What? True balanced cannot be achieved, but you can make the game more than about who has the most rocks to pelt the enemy side with. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 578	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:51:00 - [133] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Iwords. more words True balanced cannot be achieved, but you can make the game more than about who has the most rocks to pelt the enemy side with. Good post is good, agree that when people spam 6 tanks, unless you have a tank team on your side it could be said to be a tough match from the offset :) I find that our squad play has become very much about flexibility, so when we run a gang we can at a push field 5/6 tanks between just us if the enemy spams tanks. Then its a head butting contest until one side gives up. Im really not sure if its right or not, its fun but for those who specialised into a role, you are screwed pretty much. I would also perhaps stress that its okay to leave battles as well, often if you see a proto stomp forming, a tank spam gathering, its not the end of the world to drop that game and start another...... or is that bad etiquette? i rarely know which spoon to use at the Dust 514 battle table nowadays.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2384	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:54:00 - [134] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: A further thought, So many of the 'nerf this and that' posts are also pretty much one sided in their arguments, so for example if we nerfed railguns, dropships would likely be almost impossible to kill (lets face it, good pilots with hardners etc make them pretty tough already) So in the above scenario, if railguns were nerfed, we would see a tidal wave of "DROPSHIPS ARE SO OP OMG NERF THEM" posts CCP cannot win, we are a terribly single minded, short sighted community who care about our own guns, suits, modules and vehicles, and anything that shoots us down / kills us with perceived (wrongly) ease, we flame about it needing a nerf. I will stick my neck out and say true balance cannot be achieved, this isnt starcraft and the sooner we just accept that a cruise missile is going to be more OP than a TOW missile, the more we will grow as a community and stop whinging about Utopian balance. (i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content) Keep it coming. Posts like this needs to be said since most are just hopping on a bandwagon just because. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1114	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:26:00 - [135] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Iwords. more words True balanced cannot be achieved, but you can make the game more than about who has the most rocks to pelt the enemy side with. Good post is good, agree that when people spam 6 tanks, unless you have a tank team on your side it could be said to be a tough match from the offset :) I find that our squad play has become very much about flexibility, so when we run a gang we can at a push field 5/6 tanks between just us if the enemy spams tanks. Then its a head butting contest until one side gives up. Im really not sure if its right or not, its fun but for those who specialised into a role, you are screwed pretty much. I would also perhaps stress that its okay to leave battles as well, often if you see a proto stomp forming, a tank spam gathering, its not the end of the world to drop that game and start another...... or is that bad etiquette? i rarely know which spoon to use at the Dust 514 battle table nowadays. Well, I'm glad you responded with a mellow, thought out reply. As you said, squads need to be able to field several HAVs to stop the enemy HAVs when the spam starts, which can be a problem. Additionally, even with even odds, if you don't have the ISK to continue and they keep pumping HAVs out, you're going to have to give up and lose. In FW, okay, everyone tries to get a few pilots on their squads and between them maybe they can pull it off. The problem is that not everyone should be forced to play pubs matches in squads that can do it all. Specializing has become a bad thing, when focusing on one or two roles in a game like this is supposed to be a good thing. If you specialized in an infantry role, you could kill most things with skill. AV is cheap enough that many players have specced at least partially into it, and everyone has militia stuff, which should add some parity to the battlefield. However, this is no longer the case because AV cannot overcome true (not militia, even though militia is dangerous too) spam. I have a lot of fun when I'm with multiple players I know can/will field HAVs when the going gets rough. Then I can stomp everything or at least have a fair fight when I lose. Playing solo then puts me versus 5 HAVs again and I realize that it's become impossible to play casually and not get rolled on, because there are now prerequisites for victory regarding what you can field. Proto stomping is pretty bad, but even in standard or advanced gear, with a multitude of weapons and suits, I can take out more of them than they do of me. With tanks, the problems are greatly amplified; you die again and again, and maybe your whole team pops 1-2 tanks, with the majority of players getting to do diddly squat. It's not the same as proto stomping, either, because their gear has more invested in it and is supposed to be better in every way; tanks are a role, not a higher tier of gear, which is what they are essentially balanced as now. As for quitting, I usually try not to. I do if the lag is really bad, I get glitched or I'm getting really frustrated, but I'd like to be able to play with who I want and have a good time without worrying that if the enemy field several tanks, we're going to have to leave. I could do that in 1.6. Sure, I'd get stomped if we didn't field a lot of proto gear against a proto team, but we could do a lot more against them (provided they didn't camp an uplink in Ambush) than can be done against tank squads. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1114	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:34:00 - [136] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: A further thought, So many of the 'nerf this and that' posts are also pretty much one sided in their arguments, so for example if we nerfed railguns, dropships would likely be almost impossible to kill (lets face it, good pilots with hardners etc make them pretty tough already) So in the above scenario, if railguns were nerfed, we would see a tidal wave of "DROPSHIPS ARE SO OP OMG NERF THEM" posts CCP cannot win, we are a terribly single minded, short sighted community who care about our own guns, suits, modules and vehicles, and anything that shoots us down / kills us with perceived (wrongly) ease, we flame about it needing a nerf. I will stick my neck out and say true balance cannot be achieved, this isnt starcraft and the sooner we just accept that a cruise missile is going to be more OP than a TOW missile, the more we will grow as a community and stop whinging about Utopian balance. (i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content) Keep it coming. Posts like this needs to be said since most are just hopping on a bandwagon just because. I'm in a tank 90% of the time and not a militia one. I'm hopping on the bandwagon because in any match where the enemy doesn't field a better tank to pop mine, I go 25/0 through 3-6 guys with AV on my ass, baring my being a complete idiot and not activating hardeners or something. If I have friendly tanks, they can deploy any number of tanks less than ours and, once again, 25/0-1. All the rewards with none of the risk of putting my boots on the ground. My weekly K/D is always around 6.0, if I never leave my tank (I leave my tank all the time to drop uplinks and hack stuff) and never deploy on the ground, I'm easily hitting a 10.0 K/D. I'm not even a good tanker or have tens of millions in tanks. I've seen tankers with 30.0 K/Ds. It's ludicrous. I can just cycle my hardeners 100% of the time and laugh as the marshmallows impact my tank. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
KIRSTY j The Walking Targets 30	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:49:00 - [137] - Quote the rail doesn't really overheat anymore, that's the problem. before you would always have to equip overheat mods to fire longer
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2387	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:55:00 - [138] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Michael Arck wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: A further thought, So many of the 'nerf this and that' posts are also pretty much one sided in their arguments, so for example if we nerfed railguns, dropships would likely be almost impossible to kill (lets face it, good pilots with hardners etc make them pretty tough already) So in the above scenario, if railguns were nerfed, we would see a tidal wave of "DROPSHIPS ARE SO OP OMG NERF THEM" posts CCP cannot win, we are a terribly single minded, short sighted community who care about our own guns, suits, modules and vehicles, and anything that shoots us down / kills us with perceived (wrongly) ease, we flame about it needing a nerf. I will stick my neck out and say true balance cannot be achieved, this isnt starcraft and the sooner we just accept that a cruise missile is going to be more OP than a TOW missile, the more we will grow as a community and stop whinging about Utopian balance. (i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content) Keep it coming. Posts like this needs to be said since most are just hopping on a bandwagon just because. I'm in a tank 90% of the time and not a militia one. I'm hopping on the bandwagon because in any match where the enemy doesn't field a better tank to pop mine, I go 25/0 through 3-6 guys with AV on my ass, baring my being a complete idiot and not activating hardeners or something. If I have friendly tanks, they can deploy any number of tanks less than ours and, once again, 25/0-1. All the rewards with none of the risk of putting my boots on the ground. My weekly K/D is always around 6.0, if I never leave my tank (I leave my tank all the time to drop uplinks and hack stuff) and never deploy on the ground, I'm easily hitting a 10.0 K/D. I'm not even a good tanker or have tens of millions in tanks. I've seen tankers with 30.0 K/Ds. It's ludicrous. I can just cycle my hardeners 100% of the time and laugh as the marshmallows impact my tank. Ok Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9318	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:13:00 - [139] - Quote I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys ***** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Vids / O7
Jason Pearson 3567	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:18:00 - [140] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence peg and Pearson will be here too. But I'm not a big mean tanker, right darling? Rails are a problem, wouldn't like them removed though, need to look to things like turret elevation and such to properly fix them. Any tanker claiming its fine to do this to Dropships is out of their mind, don't get me wrong I love watching things burn, and I don't believe Dropships should be strong, that's for Gunships, but it is ridiculous. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.

Jason Pearson 3567	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:19:00 - [141] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys ***** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Chill brah. You can't fight, you're meant to be transporting people guy. :D King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1718	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:20:00 - [142] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Flix Keptick wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I might not say they need to be removed all together, but I definitely get the sentiment. Many of these maps they can roll so far back that you can't even use a dropship packed with remote explosives to kill them. They're too far back to kill with anything but a railgun and an orbital at the same time. Try to kill them with a railgun, they recall. Try to kill them with an orbital, they roll backwards. The fact that anyone can call in a railgun installation in the redline with two damage amps for 60k is definitely a big part of the problem. Shooting from the redline is the problem, it's not just with tanks But it's most obvious with tanks. I've basically never ever had an issue with red line snipers, ever (except for when Manus had the peak, that was annoying) Rail technology needs falloff damage like everything else, or dropships need to be able to fly into enemy red zones. or damage dealt at 50m from the redline by a shooter inside the redline is nullified (it may be unrealistic but it wouldfix redline rail sniping). Trust me, I'm in a tank and I find redline rail tanks anoying. I'ts the same as infantry sniper problems. Going to stay out of AV/V debates, better for my sanity. GÿåTank driverGÿå
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9319	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:21:00 - [143] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys ***** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Chill brah. You can't fight, you're meant to be transporting people guy. :D Right, that's why we have a forward mounted gun that tears through tanks, because we aren't meant to fight.... Keep huggin' that redline brah We get a 50% boost to RoF and this character tells us we're for troop transport, what a tool Vids / O7
Jason Pearson 3567	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:24:00 - [144] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys ***** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Chill brah. You can't fight, you're meant to be transporting people guy. :D Right, that's why we have a forward mounted gun that tears through tanks, because we aren't meant to fight.... You hug that redline brah You make me sad Q_Q Also, am still opposed to Assault Dropships, they just don't make sense, Need proper gunships. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9319	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:26:00 - [145] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: You make me sad Q_Q Also, am still opposed to Assault Dropships, they just don't make sense, Need proper gunships. You're entitled to your opinion. I like to focus on things that actually exist though. Vids / O7
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 249	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:35:00 - [146] - Quote CCP has several plans for redline problems, like 0wp in the redline. Soon to be solved. The redline is important, and should be configured to solve various problems, like spawn camping or Bolas sniping...you should have a safezone for spawning and staging a coordinated counterattack. I think the redline should be a shield dome. No snipers. No redline camping. etc. As for Dropships, they have one weakness, one thing that stands in the way of their endless marauding, so naturally they are not happy with near involnurability. Maybe you're not supposed to fly a dropship at all times. I've killed the same pilot over and over in a match, and his plan was simple - rinse-repeat. I'm sure he was cursing the AV balance the whole time. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 517	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:38:00 - [147] - Quote Tanks>Infantry>Dropships>Tanks In all, ALL, of my dropship fits, I cannot have free roam over infantry AV. Even nerfed swarms threaten to take me out if they're not handled immediately, I even lost my most tanky dropship (12k ehp) to a forge gunner that I couldn't take out fast enough. One thing people need to realize regarding the relationship between dropships and AV is that killing isn't the end all goal. A single forge or swarm prevents me from doing my job because it knocks me around, prevent me from aiming and will eventually kill me. Even if I don't end up dying to AV, when I fly away, I've lost. As far as I can tell, AV and dropships are fairly balanced (the only change I'd like to see is preventing vehicle's shield regenerating through swarm volleys). Rails are completely unbalanced. Mostly due to redline sniping. Our maps are just too small for such a long ranged, high damage weapon to be balanced. What I'd suggest is a range reduction down to about 300-350m. This will allow rails to shoot out of the redling to defend from spawn camping tanks, will prevent long ranged abuse, and allow them to keep a decent range from other tanks/threats. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4 Gêå1; Pythons: 0; Other DS: 25 Gêå1; Tanks: 20 Gêå7 12/20
Jason Pearson 3567	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:39:00 - [148] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You make me sad Q_Q Also, am still opposed to Assault Dropships, they just don't make sense, Need proper gunships. You're entitled to your opinion. I like to focus on things that actually exist though. Go read my post at the bottom of the previous page, looks like you just skipped it completely and went straight to my joke post :( King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1035	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:49:00 - [149] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content Because many people are finding their enjoyment of the game ruined by an unfair game mechanic. You may want to dismiss unfair things that cause people to feel badly treated, but i won't. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9319	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:57:00 - [150] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content Because many people are finding their enjoyment of the game ruined by an unfair game mechanic. You may want to dismiss unfair things that cause people to feel badly treated, but i won't. I'd be more than happy to see them gain a lot more elevation with their turrets if there was something that stopped them from firing outside of the redline, though I think just increasing base damage and adding falloff damage to railguns, forge guns, and sniper rifles. That would basically solve red line problems and tower forge gunners almost instantly. Vids / O7

Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 377	Posted - 2013.12.22 03:13:00 - [151] - Quote Didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone has already recommended something similar: Rail turrets should suffer from a "ten-to-one" dropoff for damage purposes; meaning, for every 10 meters that your shot travels, it loses 1% of the base damage amount. Random example: A rail turret that does 1000 base damage, with a range of 500 meters 100 meters = 90% damage = 900 300 meters = 70% damage = 700 500 meters = 50% damage = 500 This would allow rail tanks to fill more of a support/area of denial role on the battlefield, and rewards them for moving closer to the actual battle. For the record, my tank of choice is a cheap rail one, so I'd be directly impacted by this change. Life is killing me.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 941	Posted - 2013.12.22 03:43:00 - [152] - Quote I think rails just simply put out too much DPS for what's supposed to be a long ranged weapon. I think a slight damage reduction (100-200) but a major increase in heat build up will make them more of a long ranged support weapon. I think it should overheat after three consecutive shots at most. I hate how it rivals my missile turret in terms of AV capabilities. The railgun is the popular go-to weapon for taking out vehicles and it's superb at any range. Missiles are only superb at short to mid range, so I think the railgun should give up a good amount of DPS for longer range superiority while being clunky and outperformed at closer ranges. I've only come up against two other missile tanks attempting to take me out; every other tank had a railgun. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1718	Posted - 2013.12.22 03:50:00 - [153] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys *** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Chill brah. You can't fight, you're meant to be transporting people guy. :D Right, that's why we have a forward mounted gun that tears through tanks, because we aren't meant to fight.... Keep huggin' that redline brah We get a 50% boost to RoF and this character tells us we're for troop transport, what a tool real tankers don't stay in the redline, stop *** insulting us. I had a dude in my squad rail sniping in the redline yesterday and I told him to get the ** out of there and onto the battlefield Going to stay out of AV/V debates, better for my sanity. GÿåTank driverGÿå
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11371	Posted - 2013.12.22 03:54:00 - [154] - Quote Making rails much harder to fit would probably fix them. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3434	Posted - 2013.12.22 03:59:00 - [155] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. I like anything that can take out a tank. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 166	Posted - 2013.12.22 04:04:00 - [156] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Making rails much harder to fit would probably fix them. they need a fire rate reduction and lower damage VS shields, and there we go, 1.6 fire rate recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 465	Posted - 2013.12.22 04:11:00 - [157] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys ***** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Chill brah. You can't fight, you're meant to be transporting people guy. :D Right, that's why we have a forward mounted gun that tears through tanks, because we aren't meant to fight.... You hug that redline brah You make me sad Q_Q Also, am still opposed to Assault Dropships, they just don't make sense, Need proper gunships. Sigh, its people like you that almost got the assault dropship removed. I really like the assault dropships role, its a fast agile and hard hitting dropship. Good at getting a skilled shock team to a point and provide a little overwatch. It is also good at scouting out positions. I envision gunships to be a dedicated anti tank vehicle with a gunner manning a chin mounted anti infantry gun. While the pilot uses a rack of missiles or rail guns. It will be a vehicle killer and nothing more. The difference between the two is that an assault dropship is still designed to have the versatility of a dropship, what I mean by that is it drops shock troopers to capture or reinforce points. Its a great role and is very fun to play after you have been flying for as long as I have. I hate it when tankers talk about the assault dropship this way, especially when they don't fly, or only fly military dropships.
rebecca watson OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 89	Posted - 2013.12.22 04:46:00 - [158] - Quote 1. Add falloff to all rails. 2. Split them into two types: a. Current range, half the damage b. Half the range, current damage.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 108	Posted - 2013.12.22 04:49:00 - [159] - Quote If they remove rail guns and make HAVs vulnerable to dropships, we might actually get that Anti-Air HAV hull they mentioned.
Mobius Wyvern Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4200	Posted - 2013.12.22 04:56:00 - [160] - Quote When I took my Dropship up last Saturday, the only threat I was completely unable to counter was a Railgun Gunnlogi back in the redline. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

Driver Cole Nor Clan Combat Logistics 6	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:02:00 - [161] - Quote What about the small rail turrets? They are generally useless unless you can make a direct hit, but even then you can empty the entire clip and not get the kill. It makes sense to me that the answer to any vehicle a DS comes across it to use a rail turret. But the turret has blaster range and less power then a missile turret. What is the placement for this weapon?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:05:00 - [162] - Quote So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here.
Driver Cole Nor Clan Combat Logistics 6	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:12:00 - [163] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. Dropship pilot/Medic
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 941	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:33:00 - [164] - Quote Why not remove the redline altogether for aircraft? Then give MCCs a form of AA that activates within a certain range to prevent dropships from farming kills (enough to discourage them from sitting there for extended periods of time, but not enough to allow to finish off a redline tank that retreated to the MCC) "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Driver Cole Nor Clan Combat Logistics 6	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:39:00 - [165] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Why not remove the redline altogether for aircraft? Then give MCCs a form of AA that activates within a certain range to prevent dropships from farming kills (enough to discourage them from sitting there for extended periods of time, but not enough to allow to finish off a redline tank that retreated to the MCC) Can't completely remove it because infantry can't out run a DS with missiles. Dropship pilot/Medic
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:44:00 - [166] - Quote Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. After thinking about this myself I came to a similar conclusion. How about while in the red zone NO ONE can fire anything? No firing of any weapons, no tank cannons, nothing. Until they have left the red zone? This would still keep the red zone as a safe place to hide but you would have to leave the red zone to snipe, shoot guns , shoot tank cannons etc? I am certainly in favour of this as I for one do not sit in the red zone. EDIT - To justify this perhaps have a really large "Energy stasis barrier" in place that nullifies ALL weaponry.... (Insert other BS excuse here for your pleasure)
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 941	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:47:00 - [167] - Quote Driver Cole wrote: Harpyja wrote: Why not remove the redline altogether for aircraft? Then give MCCs a form of AA that activates within a certain range to prevent dropships from farming kills (enough to discourage them from sitting there for extended periods of time, but not enough to allow to finish off a redline tank that retreated to the MCC) Can't completely remove it because infantry can't out run a DS with missiles. Well the idea is to remove the redline while adding in AA. I like how BF3 did it where you had indestructible player operated AA turrets in the 'redline' with a view of the 'redline' zone only. Allowed aircraft to engage within the redline, but it can become a hostile environment for aircraft. I think what could be done is to add player controlled blaster turrets (or equivalents of) with terminals inside the MCC. Short range such that it only creates a hostile environment where the redline used to be. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Driver Cole Nor Clan Combat Logistics 6	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:48:00 - [168] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. After thinking about this myself I came to a similar conclusion. How about while in the red zone NO ONE can fire anything? No firing of any weapons, no tank cannons, nothing. Until they have left the red zone? This would still keep the red zone as a safe place to hide but you would have to leave the red zone to snipe, shoot guns , shoot tank cannons etc? I am certainly in favour of this as I for one do not sit in the red zone. EDIT - To justify this perhaps have a really large "Energy stasis barrier" in place that nullifies ALL weaponry.... (Insert other BS excuse here for your pleasure) This only makes it easier to keep the other team red-lined. Dropship pilot/Medic
Void Echo KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 2251	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:50:00 - [169] - Quote if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 Youtube Gallente Loyalist Closed Beta Player
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:55:00 - [170] - Quote Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. After thinking about this myself I came to a similar conclusion. How about while in the red zone NO ONE can fire anything? No firing of any weapons, no tank cannons, nothing. Until they have left the red zone? This would still keep the red zone as a safe place to hide but you would have to leave the red zone to snipe, shoot guns , shoot tank cannons etc? I am certainly in favour of this as I for one do not sit in the red zone. EDIT - To justify this perhaps have a really large "Energy stasis barrier" in place that nullifies ALL weaponry.... (Insert other BS excuse here for your pleasure) This only makes it easier to keep the other team red-lined. Ahh yes this is true. That point escaped me when I was thinking about this. So basically nothing can be done. The guys idea above about having turrets mounted on the MCC is a decent idea, allowing for air assets to harrass the red zone while still taking heat from the gunners. I specifically remember on BF2 the wake island map, the carrier team had the huge AA turret, but you would still see jets doing bombing and strafing runs on the carrier, if he was lucky enough to escape the hail of fire from that awesome AA deck barrel gun.

Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 943	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:55:00 - [171] - Quote Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 See my above reply regarding player operated turrets from the MCC. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:57:00 - [172] - Quote Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 I dont know if you have checked out how it is coming in as a new player recently, but after reading some new guys thread the other day I checked it out and I have to say its a pretty poor experience. You wait many minutes for a battle to start and when it finally does its like a few guys v a few guys. They need to be incorporated with the current players somehow. Maybe have a game mode that only allows militia stuff so the noobs can enjoy the full 16v16 or what ever is it.
Void Echo KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 2251	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:58:00 - [173] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 See my above reply regarding player operated turrets from the MCC. they better be insta kill turrets or nothing will get done Youtube Gallente Loyalist Closed Beta Player
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 475	Posted - 2013.12.22 06:01:00 - [174] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 See my above reply regarding player operated turrets from the MCC. Sorry to multi-post like this. I honestly think this is the best idea by far so far. Any idea others have come up with has holes in it. However this seems a very viable way to do it. It was that way in other great FPS games with similar mechanics to dust (Battlefield being a prime example). I say we push this as an idea. Any feed back from others? I feel this would make DS pilots happy and at the same time, new guys would still be able to fight back using the mounted MCC turrets. (You know I say we just copy Battlefield 2142 and have Titan mode. That was awesome and VERY much like DUST in many ways)
Mobius Wyvern Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4200	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:02:00 - [175] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Harpyja wrote: Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 See my above reply regarding player operated turrets from the MCC. Sorry to multi-post like this. I honestly think this is the best idea by far so far. Any idea others have come up with has holes in it. However this seems a very viable way to do it. It was that way in other great FPS games with similar mechanics to dust (Battlefield being a prime example). I say we push this as an idea. Any feed back from others? I feel this would make DS pilots happy and at the same time, new guys would still be able to fight back using the mounted MCC turrets. (You know I say we just copy Battlefield 2142 and have Titan mode. That was awesome and VERY much like DUST in many ways) Honestly, if we have AI controlled turret installations all over maps, why not put the other gun back on the MCC and make those AI controlled. With the size they are, they could easily be the XL turrets the original concept art for the game had room for, and with them auto-targeting, getting within range of them would be suicidal. You could take out the redline, but still have a safe zone under the MCC. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2119	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:11:00 - [176] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. . ASAP. Nothing in this game is test before release. Don't you get it? testing takes weeks! months! They had no idea the sticky remote change was incoming. They never considered it in the balance. They didn't test the build. btw with where dust is now I DONT want them over testing :P
castba Penguin's March 267	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:13:00 - [177] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well Didn't CCP mention that a bomber was going to be released shortly? I seem to recall it was scheduled for a recent update but was delayed due to core fixes. This would mean in the next couple of updates and would probably be the hard counter to tanks, no?
DeadlyAztec11 2849	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:18:00 - [178] - Quote Judge, I'm sorry for doubting you. I totally support you for CPM now. I am in solidarity with you. +1 »We still have our honor!
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 727	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:19:00 - [179] - Quote Psssssssh, what would you know about vehicles, old man? C'mon guys, party over at Scotty's! CCP, Geth Infiltrator is OP! plz nerf.
Mobius Wyvern Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4200	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:21:00 - [180] - Quote castba wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well Didn't CCP mention that a bomber was going to be released shortly? I seem to recall it was scheduled for a recent update but was delayed due to core fixes. This would mean in the next couple of updates and would probably be the hard counter to tanks, no? That was Blam!'s idea, and he apparently no longer works for CCP. The Bomber Dropship was a terrible idea. That would have been fighting cheese with even more cheese. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1930	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:34:00 - [181] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: ladwar wrote: not that afraid... plus when there 3-6 of them your only going to scare one away while the rest keep on spawn camping. fix spawn protection and area to the point that friendly redzones can be removed will do everything and more. Alrighty then. What if the red line were a null fire zone where weapons damage didn't exist? Same way you can't snipe at people from MCC anymore, just extended to the entire R/L. Do you think that would help? band aid.. once they redo the R/L and whatnot you would have a much harder time trying to push of that then the current R/L. not looking for another band aid to cover one. the idea i think would work best is similar to PS2 spawn building with pain shields but only having them one way shields and having large bunker similar to the infantry one for vehicles, but with these blocking their LOS(line of sight) so they can not shoot into the center of the map and as a last measure having the MCC being able to firing into the current R/L(similar to orbital strikes, just smaller) without a WP cost just on a cooldown of about 60-90 seconds and with this removal the instanta death timer which would allow people to go in and RE sniper tanks and snipers without them even knowing or just take the fight to them. its hard to for snipers to not get tunnel vision so its easy to see that most of the RLRT would go away in a hurry without the R/L to protect them. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Jason Pearson 3574	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:30:00 - [182] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I like how the tankers come out of the woodwork, foaming at the mouth that we want to be invincible, when all we're asking for is the CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. You ***** noobs are the ones sitting in the redline killable only by your own stupidity. How *** hard is it to roll backwards? What a *** skill. You guys ***** suck at DUST and should be ashamed to have it downloaded to your systems Chill brah. You can't fight, you're meant to be transporting people guy. :D Right, that's why we have a forward mounted gun that tears through tanks, because we aren't meant to fight.... You hug that redline brah You make me sad Q_Q Also, am still opposed to Assault Dropships, they just don't make sense, Need proper gunships. Sigh, its people like you that almost got the assault dropship removed. I really like the assault dropships role, its a fast agile and hard hitting dropship. Good at getting a skilled shock team to a point and provide a little overwatch. It is also good at scouting out positions. I envision gunships to be a dedicated anti tank vehicle with a gunner manning a chin mounted anti infantry gun. While the pilot uses a rack of missiles or rail guns. It will be a vehicle killer and nothing more. The difference between the two is that an assault dropship is still designed to have the versatility of a dropship, what I mean by that is it drops shock troopers to capture or reinforce points. Its a great role and is very fun to play after you have been flying for as long as I have. I hate it when tankers talk about the assault dropship this way, especially when they don't fly, or only fly military dropships. People like me? The reason I disliked it and have disliked it since it's creation is the fact that it's like CCP saying "We're not bothering with gunships for now, so here's a Dropship with a turret stuck to the front", I found it lacked in everyway and wasn't what I'd hoped for when I was piloting. Oh and just to let you know, my sig is "Vehicle Specialist" for a reason, I flew Dropships alongside some of the best pilots, my original intention was to be a gunship pilot with my buds, we were all going to go and create a Vehicle group and work on tactics with one another, quickly fell apart due to Missiles winning all the time. The only reason I've stopped piloting is trying it with a KB/M is ridiculous and I've busted my DS3. I will always maintain that Dropships should be DROPSHIPS, for troop deployment and evac, the side gunners being mostly used for covering Infantry as the ship comes in to pick them up or covering them as they deployed. I always believed the Dropship should be bulky and slow, but have a massive tank, being as difficult, if not more difficult, to destroy than a HAV. I had hoped by release the Gunships would've been out and ready for pilots, it'd be pretty much the same as an ADS, but not be a small turret stuck to the front and it'd be weaker than the envisioned Dropship, but faster and have more damage output. I've enjoyed flying Dropships, the ADS was a breath of fresh air and trying to formation fly with FACES and Foxhound was hilarious and quite enjoyable, so please, don't class me as "just a tanker" who did nothing else but tank, I drive all vehicles, it is my intention to master, or atleast become proficient in every vehicle in the game. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:35:00 - [183] - Quote you wanna fly some time? recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 587	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:50:00 - [184] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content Because many people are finding their enjoyment of the game ruined by an unfair game mechanic. You may want to dismiss unfair things that cause people to feel badly treated, but i won't. Kind of agree but, for example, I ran scout suits since possibly the start of this game and they were totally borked when aim assist came in for perhaps 3-4 months due to 'buffing stuff' so i understand the pain here. Same goes with the flaylock, used to love that thing and get 20+ kills each round with it, when it was changed i moved on. What bothers me is the tidal wave of 'nerf this and that' posts. Trying to get railguns nerfed will be seen as opening up the ability to fly an ADS and rack up 20-30 kills which will just perpetuate the problem i guess. Railguns have been insane for what? a week? two? try living with that for 10 - 20 weeks like scouts had to with the AA buff and sadly some of the best scouts in the game have given up due to this so i do understand the issue. Increasing the overheat is good, making them not elevate as much, also good but once done, the next item on the nerf list will be ADS. I think to be honest im getting really tired of this game endlessly being a thread fest about nerfing stuff (not aimed at OP). I dont recall seeing this in eve as much at all and it freed up CCP to just continue making a great game.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4193	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:54:00 - [185] - Quote CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: Railguns have been insane for what? a week? two? try living with that for 10 - 20 weeks like scouts had to with the AA buff and sadly some of the best scouts in the game have given up due to this so i do understand the issue. I think to be honest im getting really tired of this game endlessly being a thread fest about nerfing stuff (not aimed at OP). I dont recall seeing this in eve as much at all and it freed up CCP to just continue making a great game. It's not just Scouts, it's everyone. Gallente Assault has had a shield recharge bonus since May 14th and that has not changed and will likely not change for some time. The only thing that really saves them is the glorious CPU/PG reduction but that only applies to a handful of weapons - none of which are sidearms. If you haven't seen many "nerf this" threads in the Eve forums, you haven't been around very long. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 129	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:05:00 - [186] - Quote Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken, but if they are removed droppships will be OP Sorry 4 my bad English Regards
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2400	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:12:00 - [187] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken, but if they are removed droppships will be OP Sorry 4 my bad English Regards And that's one of the OP's tactics in game. I've seen it myself. To hover and harass blues. So I don't understand. Someone found a way to take you out and you're upset about it? I call it due justice. The only thing broken is folks ability to understand that for every action there's a counter action. Don't get mad when that counter happens to you. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Broonfondle Majikthies Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 619	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:20:00 - [188] - Quote I haven't been flying until recently now some of my skills are back up but I agree, Railguns are a big problem, not just for DS's but for fair all players. The same can be said for snipers. The problem is simple - The redline. We need it for deployment. We need a staging area. Fine. Being able to shoot from the redline without any effective counter is fundamentally detrimental to the game. There is no risk - reward system. They are completely untouchable. We should be able to use skill and tactics to locate distant threats, outmanoeuvre them and then bring them into a situation where we are rewarded for our clever gameplay by turning the tables on our attackers. We need a mechanic that encourages players to engage fully onto the field. Perhaps a better reward system or a reduced damage from the redline. To get them out of hiding and make them fair game for all players. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 414	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:22:00 - [189] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: i do agree railguns are insane - but why expend so much energy balancing when CCP could be creating more content Because many people are finding their enjoyment of the game ruined by an unfair game mechanic. You may want to dismiss unfair things that cause people to feel badly treated, but i won't. I'd be more than happy to see them gain a lot more elevation with their turrets if there was something that stopped them from firing outside of the redline, though I think just increasing base damage and adding falloff damage to railguns, forge guns, and sniper rifles. That would basically solve red line problems and tower forge gunners almost instantly. That would actually make the rail damage numbers make sense considering they got a damage buff, fire-before-overheat buff and a range buff(Rendering fixes) As for sniper rifles and forges, they'd need an initial damage buff for shorter ranges, with a falloff that gives current numbers to 200(sniper rifles) and 175(Forges)? As for dropship losses, I've lost about 8 mill since 1.7 from railguns only. The damage mods are honestly quite ridiculous and most matches I find myself landing to recall for a rail to deal with scrubs in the redline ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 587	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:31:00 - [190] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CEOPyrex CloneA wrote: words If you haven't seen many "nerf this" threads in the Eve forums, you haven't been around very long. played eve since beta (10 years now) sup The difference is that in EVE its not the tidal wave we get in here. Lets face it, if we didnt scream and whine for nerfs and buffs, this forum would be a ghost town.

Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 130	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:41:00 - [191] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken, but if they are removed droppships will be OP Sorry 4 my bad English Regards And that's one of the OP's tactics in game. I've seen it myself. To hover and harass blues. So I don't understand. Someone found a way to take you out and you're upset about it? I call it due justice. The only thing broken is folks ability to understand that for every action there's a counter action. Don't get mad when that counter happens to you. Amen to that brother I am not to botherd with the railtankers. If there is 3-8 sitting on the red line they will most likely losse the match ( to little infantry on the grownd to hack and defend points. I mostley do FW any way and I love the fact that on FW is al about the win. Sitt and snipe in the redline and get your KDR going however you will urn nothing from it. The problem I c is that's many just want to do ONE thing when playing this game. Insted of filling a role that is needed that match. C a need fill a need My self I am Jack of al trades expert of none
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1042	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:46:00 - [192] - Quote I have a video on the way about this as I mentioned. It will address many of the comments here and also show you things that the damage numbers and range numbers cannot. It have been stated several times, and then refuted but then stated again that dropships want rails weakend to the point where dropships become OP. We keep saying that is not the case but many ignore us (or didn't read the whole thread - can't blame them for that as it's a long one) Any player who can kill and cost another player ISK should be on the battlefield taking the same risks. The redline combined with the rail stops this balance. At the same time VS dropships the rail tank can cover my entire playzone where I have no cover. he is not stopping me dropping troops, hovering with a CRU or shooting rooftop uplinks by using his wits and teamplay to out think and out position me. He simply sits on a hill in complete safety and shoots me twice in 1.2 seconds. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 169	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:57:00 - [193] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken so anyone who isn't moving 50 mph always dies? the only way to attack is to be still, and air vehicles are the easiest targets of all, even moving fast a AFG hits you. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
castba Penguin's March 267	Posted - 2013.12.22 11:07:00 - [194] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I haven't been flying until recently now some of my skills are back up but I agree, Railguns are a big problem, not just for DS's but for fair all players. The same can be said for snipers. The problem is simple - The redline. We need it for deployment. We need a staging area. Fine. Being able to shoot from the redline without any effective counter is fundamentally detrimental to the game. There is no risk - reward system. They are completely untouchable. We should be able to use skill and tactics to locate distant threats, outmanoeuvre them and then bring them into a situation where we are rewarded for our clever gameplay by turning the tables on our attackers. We need a mechanic that encourages players to engage fully onto the field. Perhaps a better reward system or a reduced damage from the redline. To get them out of hiding and make them fair game for all players. I'd actually like to see players in the redline only receive 25% damage but also be unable to inflict damage until out of the redline.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 199	Posted - 2013.12.22 11:43:00 - [195] - Quote Throw me a bone here, I'm new to flying, I love it, but getting 2 hit killed too many times in a single game, I haven't flown for two days now. I outlined my new player experience in an earlier post, but nobody here has said "ah you have to do this, or stop doing that, and you'll have options". It's not just the money (I have 50m lying around so I could burn through 100+ ADS if I thought that was worth it) but it's more the lack of fun. Fun for me is using skill to help support my team, and getting the odd kill too if the situation allows. I couldn't care less about KD/R. Someone less stubborn would have walked away and donned an assault suit. (or quit coz they got no SP to put anywhere else) How do I get better when I have to go negative ISK to stay in the game, and have no idea where I'm getting shot from? Where are my safe spots? Do I have to keep moving? Should I expect to be in trouble if I'm stationary and get hit? (I've played infantry long enough to suspect I know the answer to this one). Do I activate hardeners after I'm hit, or should I have them active at all times when on the offense. Should I even need two? For the record, I've not managed a kill (except landing on a couple people which I don't take any pride in) in my ADS yet, but that's ok, I don't think that's broken, I've not learnt to aim yet and that's more a secondary role for a DS, but I love the ADS for it's agility and I can tell that a highly skilled pilot will be able to get it into some great positions quickly, to help control and turn the tide of battle. The basic DSes are like something you never want to go back to after flying the ADS. I've a scout main and a pilot alt, the scout is on a frustration hiatus, and I'm not playing much in the last four days. We want balance, variety, and an awesome and unique game, then we have to figure out how to stop the NPE being what I described earlier. Some of you guys think rails should stay as they are, I can't argue against that from a position of experience, but if you're saying it's balanced, give me an option as a pilot that doesn't involve p1ssing ISK away and supporting nobody in battle. Why should I bother? If I'm doing it wrong, explain it to me so I can do it right and have some bloody fun again. Some of our most experienced pilots are having trouble, so try and leave the "get good" rhetoric out and give me something to work with here. How about adding some form of electronics so I know where the threats are and can figure out how the **** to counter them, like: - positioning my DS so there's a building in between me and a threat - flying low, requiring high skill, to use terrain and other low structures as cover - accepting that certain objectives are too high risk due to well-placed AA coverage, but other objectives are lower risk and I can support pushing / defending them - allow me a chance to use situational awareness to protect my ship, stay in the game, and understand where and how I can support my team - use aerial positional advantage to get into a position to take out the threat If I only knew where the threats were, I might feel I could be useful with some skill and experience. TL;DR Maybe rails should change, there's some good ideas here I think, although it's clear others don't think they should be touched. Change them, don't change them, but ffs give me some data to use to avoid them.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 131	Posted - 2013.12.22 11:46:00 - [196] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken so anyone who isn't moving 50 mph always dies? the only way to attack is to be still, and air vehicles are the easiest targets of all, even moving fast a AFG hits you. First rails are broken lets agree on that. Second the droppships as there is now dont fill the role they should have ( getting ppl in and out of hit spots and support ( if you read the description of em any way. At some maps they are almost useless due to the size ( to smal maps ) I am stating that the droppship will shine when/if we get bigger maps. Me personally I shine ( in my dp) on that new big map where u have a rail or whatever it is that goes throw the hole map. Again I c other Dp pilots hovering over a point and getting smacked by rails instantly. I on the other hand fly low/fast and constantly moving. I normally survive a hole game on that map when in my Dp. Idk I just don't want them to be flying tanks. As they can be and they ARE if there is no rails in the game. Again rails are broken and need to go or have a major overhaul, I suggest the latest. Regards
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1477	Posted - 2013.12.22 11:51:00 - [197] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken so anyone who isn't moving 50 mph always dies? the only way to attack is to be still, and air vehicles are the easiest targets of all, even moving fast a AFG hits you. First rails are broken lets agree on that. Second the droppships as there is now dont fill the role they should have ( getting ppl in and out of hit spots and support ( if you read the description of em any way. At some maps they are almost useless due to the size ( to smal maps ) I am stating that the droppship will shine when/if we get bigger maps. Me personally I shine ( in my dp) on that new big map where u have a rail or whatever it is that goes throw the hole map. Again I c other Dp pilots hovering over a point and getting smacked by rails instantly. I on the other hand fly low/fast and constantly moving. I normally survive a hole game on that map when in my Dp. Idk I just don't want them to be flying tanks. As they can be and they ARE if there is no rails in the game. Again rails are broken and need to go or have a major overhaul, I suggest the latest. Regards well piraten ol friend , I wouldn't be 2 shotting your dropships on sight if you weren't going to fly to the highest points and spam uplinks and hives , rail tanks are currently the only thing that stops you from flying your ds to the highest points that are inaccessible by any other means might I add , to spam droplinks and hives as I said. you do this all the tome ant the only counter is to shoot you down on sight plain and simple , I noticed you don't do it any more when your pitted up against me Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 116	Posted - 2013.12.22 12:02:00 - [198] - Quote Can you remove points and kill counts from redline? Otherwise I think rails are fine in current state was its the only viable defense for all skill players against murder blaster tanks. Also dropships need more punch when attacking hav in general. Edit.. maybe the mccs could have some kind of scanner that can detect redline vehicals after they are deployed for 40 second s or more. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9330	Posted - 2013.12.22 12:13:00 - [199] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Making rails much harder to fit would probably fix them. Actually it would just make them that much harder to dislodge from the redline Vids / O7
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 131	Posted - 2013.12.22 12:33:00 - [200] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken so anyone who isn't moving 50 mph always dies? the only way to attack is to be still, and air vehicles are the easiest targets of all, even moving fast a AFG hits you. First rails are broken lets agree on that. Second the droppships as there is now dont fill the role they should have ( getting ppl in and out of hit spots and support ( if you read the description of em any way. At some maps they are almost useless due to the size ( to smal maps ) I am stating that the droppship will shine when/if we get bigger maps. Me personally I shine ( in my dp) on that new big map where u have a rail or whatever it is that goes throw the hole map. Again I c other Dp pilots hovering over a point and getting smacked by rails instantly. I on the other hand fly low/fast and constantly moving. I normally survive a hole game on that map when in my Dp. Idk I just don't want them to be flying tanks. As they can be and they ARE if there is no rails in the game. Again rails are broken and need to go or have a major overhaul, I suggest the latest. Regards well piraten ol friend , I wouldn't be 2 shotting your dropships on sight if you weren't going to fly to the highest points and spam uplinks and hives , rail tanks are currently the only thing that stops you from flying your ds to the highest points that are inaccessible by any other means might I add , to spam droplinks and hives as I said. you do this all the tome ant the only counter is to shoot you down on sight plain and simple , I noticed you don't do it any more when your pitted up against me Yes I take out uplinks al over the dam map to try and win. If there is a good railtanker out there as you'd self I try to adept. I don't cry for a nerf. Actually I not to worried by rails as I stated. I am not to worried about tanks in general to be honest. And if you read my post further up I just stated that if rails are removed dropships will be OP. To be honest the only big problem with tankes are the cost I kind of like em as they are even if I find that game style on a personal note boring. However it's AWSOME we al aren't like. Regards

Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 472	Posted - 2013.12.22 12:56:00 - [201] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: People like me? The reason I disliked it and have disliked it since it's creation is the fact that it's like CCP saying "We're not bothering with gunships for now, so here's a Dropship with a turret stuck to the front", I found it lacked in everyway and wasn't what I'd hoped for when I was piloting. Oh and just to let you know, my sig is "Vehicle Specialist" for a reason, I flew Dropships alongside some of the best pilots, my original intention was to be a gunship pilot with my buds, we were all going to go and create a Vehicle group and work on tactics with one another, quickly fell apart due to Missiles winning all the time. The only reason I've stopped piloting is trying it with a KB/M is ridiculous and I've busted my DS3. I will always maintain that Dropships should be DROPSHIPS, for troop deployment and evac, the side gunners being mostly used for covering Infantry as the ship comes in to pick them up or covering them as they deployed. I always believed the Dropship should be bulky and slow, but have a massive tank, being as difficult, if not more difficult, to destroy than a HAV. I had hoped by release the Gunships would've been out and ready for pilots, it'd be pretty much the same as an ADS, but not be a small turret stuck to the front and it'd be weaker than the envisioned Dropship, but faster and have more damage output. I've enjoyed flying Dropships, the ADS was a breath of fresh air and trying to formation fly with FACES and Foxhound was hilarious and quite enjoyable, still dislike it due to CCP pretending a Dropship is the same thing as a gunship though. So please, don't class me as "just a tanker" who did nothing else but tank, I drive all vehicles, it is my intention to master, or atleast become proficient in every vehicle in the game. Fair enough jason, I don't read peoples tags and apologize for calling you something your not. When I said people like you, I meant people who don't seem to grasp the concept of the assault dropship. Allow me to expand on that, the assault dropship is still a dropship as it can carry up to 4 mercs with turrets fitted. It is a variant of the dropship that fills a niche role, it requires a very good team of shock troops but they have a dropship that can give some cover. Many pilots do use it as a gunship because indeed it does have a gun, but it clearly is not a gunship. I never envisioned the dropship to be slow and bulky, mostly because its a medium aeiral vehicle. What you describe is what I envision a heavy aeiral vehicle to be, especially the part about them being as hard to take down as an hav. Maybe we just have different views on this, but the dropship is close to how I envisioned it. I envision gunships to be slow terrifying beasts that can deliver devastating fire power from the air. They sacrafise speed and some maneuverability for MOR DAKKA and killing power. Of course they would have a better tank than a dropship however the dropship can still out maneuver it and fly away faster. Gunships aren't air superiority, they are air to ground. They shouldn't become fighters. I envision them as heavy aircraft rather than medium as they should cost more. There are two key differences between the assault dropship and this gunship, 1. The gunship has far more firepower than the assault dropship, 2. The gunship has room for only one gunner, the assault dropship has room for 4 mercs. That's how I see the difference and why I will fly assault dropships after gunships come out. Anyway this is a good discussion and I will make a thread for it, I'm sure judge doesn't want us derailing the very serious issue he has brought up here and I would like that discussion to continue. PS, come fly with me sometime, I would like to see your skills
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1296	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:17:00 - [202] - Quote So here is what I think an Assault Dropship is for, During Combat it is Highly likely to require troops to be dropped into a contested zone, often in to areas with little cover, its here the assault dropship is useful, available to provide covering fire while troops find a safe location, the assault dropship isn't made for marathons of combat, instead often relying on gunship or fighter escort to successfully transport its cargo. Does that sound right? Is that how they should be / are being used? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2020	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:31:00 - [203] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The main issue also effects snipers but because its a tank is not the same thing? Exactly. Fix it for snipers too, I don't really care. Only bad people complain about red line snipers since, forever ago, because they don't cause anywhere near as much havoc as red line rail tanks do. Give rail technology fall off damage, problem solved Well thats BS If you complain about redline rail tanks which are made for long range combat and do well at it you really should also complain about redline snipers which are also made for long range combat and do well at it Intelligence is OP
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 472	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:37:00 - [204] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken, but if they are removed droppships will be OP Sorry 4 my bad English Regards And that's one of the OP's tactics in game. I've seen it myself. To hover and harass blues. So I don't understand. Someone found a way to take you out and you're upset about it? I call it due justice. The only thing broken is folks ability to understand that for every action there's a counter action. Don't get mad when that counter happens to you. Right and then the dropship pilot is like alright I'm gonna call down another dropship and go get that rail tank by using these mountains as cover then activate my afterburner as I come screaming in 2 feet off the deck aaaaaaaaand he's in the red line.............well better go recall this and cry to myself that no matter how much sp I have invested, no matter how many months I've spent to get good at flying and hone my combat skills, I will never be able to kill that guy, or even fight him. That is the problem, is it so much to ask that we can also have a chance to destroy the rail tank? Or is it too much to ask for a fair fight? What's broken is there is plenty of consequences for dropships, fly somewhere without scanning the entire redline extensively and 1.2 seconds later you loose your ship, and there is no consequence for the rail tank as he is in an unassailable position. Further more why does a rail tank sitting somewhere that makes him invincible seem fine, but an assault dropship risking his ship to provide some cover fire for his squad/team a problem? @ Piraten Hovnore, I have found flying low can also be just as deadly, if swarms, forge guns, or a rail tank hit you its just as likely that the knock back will cause you to crash. I can fly inches off the ground and tend to avoid it due to this fact.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1047	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:43:00 - [205] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So here is what I think an Assault Dropship is for, During Combat it is Highly likely to require troops to be dropped into a contested zone, often in to areas with little cover, its here the assault dropship is useful, available to provide covering fire while troops find a safe location, the assault dropship isn't made for marathons of combat, instead often relying on gunship or fighter escort to successfully transport its cargo. Does that sound right? Is that how they should be / are being used? below are 3 uses of a assault dropship that are not Gunship type roles. These are ones I do use, but only in a squad. 1) I use an Incubus often with a CRU fitted. I dont need many seats as the players pop in and leave when near a good spot. The speed allows me to keep moving, covering the map quickly to deliver the spawned troops. The front gun I use to clear enemy uplinks and nanos so I can also land and replace their uplinks with mine. I don't go for kills but for equipment. This is where a gun on a ship is useful. I can play the role of putting my team where needed and slowing the enemies supply line of troops and equipment. So not a pure logi role or a full on assault role. It is a build only the ADS can get as dropships are today. The limit in seats gives it a strategic insertion and disruption role. 2) Another build I use is a rail (i have proto) fitted assault dropship. I use this to not kill tanks but to 'Force' them. So when I play with a good tanker, like DELBOY, I chase a tank toward him and use my turret to get the enemy tank to activate his hardeners. By the time he runs into DELBOY his hardeners are on cooldown or have a short run left. If I can I do this with a forge gunner or 2 in the ship with me .Get a tank to harden up. Chase it till they run down then drop the forge gunners on them. 3) If the enemy is on a roof or holding an outpost I use an assault dropship to take a knifer or remote explosive player or scout behind them. Stefan the almighty is my goto guy for this. I can drop him, often right behind them (like the mushroom roof) that has a wall across the middle so the enemy cannot see me drop him) then I go and hover right infront of them and shoot to get their attention. While they arre look at me they get murdered from behind. The front gun allows me to do these roles. But I am not playing as a mini gunship as these tasks use passengers as part of the tactics. This is the role between Dropship and Gunship assault version can fill. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:44:00 - [206] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: It reads as if people just want the game adjusted to them...all the time. dust 514 witch hunts. Now the issue is recall? Now we should remove redlines? Are people thinking about the whole scope or the narrow view of what affects their gameplay?? Im thinking about the scope in regards to redlines. Ask yourself: what point are the redlines supposed to serve? Does it have something to do with insuring that both teams are supposed to have "safe" spawnpoints regardless of how bad they perform in the match? If so we can confirm that it doesn't work, because there have been plenty of matches (especially on the smaller maps with only 3 null cannons) where one team gets completely pushed back and have no hope of being able to leave their start spawnpoints without getting slaughtered, and any attempt att bringing in a vehicle fail because av-weaponry is waiting on the redline to pop them before the RDV has even been able to drop them on the ground. If the game incorporated more starting spawnpoints at the edges of each map for each team however, and just did away with the redlines, then players would be able to engage ALL targets, redline-abusing railtanks wouldn't be possible, and no team no matter how badly they perform would get "boxed in" at their starting spawnpoints because ideally there would be too many, too far apart for 16 players to cover. This would also help towards ending boring redline-matches for the winning team, because honestly it's not very fun when the opposing team is reduced to completely hiding behind the redlines and it makes it harder f+¦r everyone on the winning team to earn more warpoints because no enemy is able to hack objectives that can be hacked back. TL;DR remove the redlines, bring in more alternative starting spawnpoints and spread them out far apart on the edges of each map.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 472	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:46:00 - [207] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So here is what I think an Assault Dropship is for, During Combat it is Highly likely to require troops to be dropped into a contested zone, often in to areas with little cover, its here the assault dropship is useful, available to provide covering fire while troops find a safe location, the assault dropship isn't made for marathons of combat, instead often relying on gunship or fighter escort to successfully transport its cargo. Does that sound right? Is that how they should be / are being used? When fighters are introduced dropships will need air superiority to operate safely. Shock troopers are always being dropped into a hot zone, SNAFU should be their motto. Assault dropships can provide cover for a limited time, allowing the shock troops to get a good position or tip the scales so the DZ isn't overrun. However as the assault dropship cannot stay in a prolonged engagement the shock team leader would be wise to lace targets for a gunship. It would in fact be better to have a gunship blanket the DZ in fire before the shock team arrives to force the enemy on the defensive so the DZ isn't immediately overrun. Then have the gunship return for a second "gunrun" after the assault dropship has disengaged. That's how I would do it anyway.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1299	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:49:00 - [208] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner. The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ). The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues. Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset. My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks. With that said rails are still broken, but if they are removed droppships will be OP Sorry 4 my bad English Regards And that's one of the OP's tactics in game. I've seen it myself. To hover and harass blues. So I don't understand. Someone found a way to take you out and you're upset about it? I call it due justice. The only thing broken is folks ability to understand that for every action there's a counter action. Don't get mad when that counter happens to you. Right and then the dropship pilot is like alright I'm gonna call down another dropship and go get that rail tank by using these mountains as cover then activate my afterburner as I come screaming in 2 feet off the deck aaaaaaaaand he's in the red line.............well better go recall this and cry to myself that no matter how much sp I have invested, no matter how many months I've spent to get good at flying and hone my combat skills, I will never be able to kill that guy, or even fight him. That is the problem, is it so much to ask that we can also have a chance to destroy the rail tank? Or is it too much to ask for a fair fight? What's broken is there is plenty of consequences for dropships, fly somewhere without scanning the entire redline extensively and 1.2 seconds later you loose your ship, and there is no consequence for the rail tank as he is in an unassailable position. Further more why does a rail tank sitting somewhere that makes him invincible seem fine, but an assault dropship risking his ship to provide some cover fire for his squad/team a problem? @ Piraten Hovnore, I have found flying low can also be just as deadly, if swarms, forge guns, or a rail tank hit you its just as likely that the knock back will cause you to crash. I can fly inches off the ground and tend to avoid it due to this fact. Yes bet that is a redline problem as has been said so many times before. The thing is how often in a CLOSE FIGHT will be teams get redlined? Once in a blue moon. So why do we have a red line? For a safe place to spawn without being camped. Why do we need that? Protostompers. If we didn't have the protostomping phenomenon, we wouldn't need redlines, if we didn't have redlines then long ramge could be countered with short range flanking. Thus it would be balanced. All of our redline, equipment and vehicluar problems spawn from protostomping, so long as it happens the game isn't balanced. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 472	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:56:00 - [209] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Yes bet that is a redline problem as has been said so many times before. The thing is how often in a CLOSE FIGHT will be teams get redlined? Once in a blue moon. So why do we have a red line? For a safe place to spawn without being camped. Why do we need that? Protostompers. If we didn't have the protostomping phenomenon, we wouldn't need redlines, if we didn't have redlines then long ramge could be countered with short range flanking. Thus it would be balanced. All of our redline, equipment and vehicluar problems spawn from protostomping, so long as it happens the game isn't balanced. I know why we have a red line, or safe zone. I don't know why rail tanks are allowed to fire from it. I made a thread about vehicles not being able to operate their guns in the red which I think would solve this issue. Give that a read if you want my opinion on what should be done.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2013.12.22 13:56:00 - [210] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Driver Cole wrote: Harpyja wrote: Why not remove the redline altogether for aircraft? Then give MCCs a form of AA that activates within a certain range to prevent dropships from farming kills (enough to discourage them from sitting there for extended periods of time, but not enough to allow to finish off a redline tank that retreated to the MCC) Can't completely remove it because infantry can't out run a DS with missiles. Well the idea is to remove the redline while adding in AA. I like how BF3 did it where you had indestructible player operated AA turrets in the 'redline' with a view of the 'redline' zone only. Allowed aircraft to engage within the redline, but it can become a hostile environment for aircraft. I think what could be done is to add player controlled blaster turrets (or equivalents of) with terminals inside the MCC. Short range such that it only creates a hostile environment where the redline used to be. Edit: I don't see why these turrets couldn't all be the same from a neutral faction, such as ORE or Sisters of EVE, or even CONCORD. This way the MCCs aren't limited to their faction's turrets and provide imbalances between the MCCs. Using the MCC as deterents to enemy spawncamping is also a great idea. Although a more viable weapon in my opinion would be that the MCC is equipped with some kind of over-powered swarm launcher turrets that can be manned by players inside. It would sort of make sense for a vessel as large as the MCC (it has the same size as some frigates in EVE) to have guided weaponry like guided missiles. The downside being that the guided missiles have a really finite range of operation (i.e the MCC weapons can only be used within the teams "readline") I welcome any idea that brings more interactivity to the MCC, after all they're just "sitting there" atm.

Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1299	Posted - 2013.12.22 14:24:00 - [211] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Yes bet that is a redline problem as has been said so many times before. The thing is how often in a CLOSE FIGHT will be teams get redlined? Once in a blue moon. So why do we have a red line? For a safe place to spawn without being camped. Why do we need that? Protostompers. If we didn't have the protostomping phenomenon, we wouldn't need redlines, if we didn't have redlines then long ramge could be countered with short range flanking. Thus it would be balanced. All of our redline, equipment and vehicluar problems spawn from protostomping, so long as it happens the game isn't balanced. I know why we have a red line, or safe zone. I don't know why rail tanks are allowed to fire from it. I made a thread about vehicles not being able to operate their guns in the red which I think would solve this issue. Give that a read if you want my opinion on what should be done. You can indeed stop people firing their weapons, but how do you distinguish between a redline sniper/railgunner and someone who is being redlined? Further more how do you teach a computer to tell the difference? When is it fair to saynyour behind your redline your blaster won't work but that enemy one will? The redline needs to affectively be a DMZ, nothing goes in or out without CONCORD tactically nuking you from space. At least in high sec anyway. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1301	Posted - 2013.12.22 14:46:00 - [212] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So here is what I think an Assault Dropship is for, During Combat it is Highly likely to require troops to be dropped into a contested zone, often in to areas with little cover, its here the assault dropship is useful, available to provide covering fire while troops find a safe location, the assault dropship isn't made for marathons of combat, instead often relying on gunship or fighter escort to successfully transport its cargo. Does that sound right? Is that how they should be / are being used? below are 3 uses of a assault dropship that are not Gunship type roles. These are ones I do use, but only in a squad. 1) I use an Incubus often with a CRU fitted. I dont need many seats as the players pop in and leave when near a good spot. The speed allows me to keep moving, covering the map quickly to deliver the spawned troops. The front gun I use to clear enemy uplinks and nanos so I can also land and replace their uplinks with mine. I don't go for kills but for equipment. This is where a gun on a ship is useful. I can play the role of putting my team where needed and slowing the enemies supply line of troops and equipment. So not a pure logi role or a full on assault role. It is a build only the ADS can get as dropships are today. The limit in seats gives it a strategic insertion and disruption role. 2) Another build I use is a rail (i have proto) fitted assault dropship. I use this to not kill tanks but to 'Force' them. So when I play with a good tanker, like DELBOY, I chase a tank toward him and use my turret to get the enemy tank to activate his hardeners. By the time he runs into DELBOY his hardeners are on cooldown or have a short run left. If I can I do this with a forge gunner or 2 in the ship with me .Get a tank to harden up. Chase it till they run down then drop the forge gunners on them. 3) If the enemy is on a roof or holding an outpost I use an assault dropship to take a knifer or remote explosive player or scout behind them. Stefan the almighty is my goto guy for this. I can drop him, often right behind them (like the mushroom roof that has a wall across the middle so the enemy cannot see me drop him) then I go and hover right in-front of them and shoot to get their attention. While they are look at me they get murdered from behind. The front gun allows me to do these roles. But I am not playing as a mini gunship as these tasks use passengers as part of the tactics. This is the role between Dropship and Gunship the assault varients can fill. Fair enough, however I would say some of these roles will be much harder with the introduction of other aircraft, also the new map towers are anti camp so number 3 won't be needed for rooves. However stealth deployment is definitely something dropships should be capable of, with the potential for logistics dropsuits to get cloaks much like the scout. Number 2 will be required less as maps and player sizes get bigger, and 1 this effectively Strategic air support which is EXACTLY the dropships point. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 515	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:35:00 - [213] - Quote This is probably some of the most comprehensive dialog over dropships and their role on the battlefield I've seen on the forums (and i had a 18+ page topic months ago that Blam replied to), and I feel like many of our ace pilots are getting the point across spot on. Every time i read something a few pages back and want to reply to it, another pilot has already given a 3 paragraph response that's pretty much what i would say haha. CCP better read ALL of this, because if they read from page 1 to the very last pages of this topic they should come away with a pretty daft understanding on what veteran pilots know dropships COULD be, and possibly even what they should do as a fix for this horrible situation we have found ourselves in.
Mobius Wyvern Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4206	Posted - 2013.12.22 15:47:00 - [214] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: This is probably some of the most comprehensive dialog over dropships and their role on the battlefield I've seen on the forums (and i had a 18+ page topic months ago that Blam replied to), and I feel like many of our ace pilots are getting the point across spot on. Every time i read something a few pages back and want to reply to it, another pilot has already given a 3 paragraph response that's pretty much what i would say haha. CCP better read ALL of this, because if they read from page 1 to the very last pages of this topic they should come away with a pretty daft understanding on what veteran pilots know dropships COULD be, and possibly even what they should do as a fix for this horrible situation we have found ourselves in. Yeah, I've actually been quite enjoying reading through this thread. I also just watched a friend of mine lose a Dropship to a railgun tank on his stream this morning. Now, granted he called it in far too close to the enemy redline, but with 3 Shield Extenders it was almost wrecked before the RDV even dropped it, and then he only got about 100 feet before one final shot knocked it out of the sky. The irritating part about that is that is an exact mirror of what I have had happen to me from 300-400 meters away. Some of them even wait for it to touch the ground and for you to get in before they use a PRO Railgun with Complex Damage Modifiers to turn you into a smoking wreck and get the kill before you can even take off or get your Hardeners on. I've used the tactics that Judge recommends on his YouTube channels for attempting to make safe takeoffs, and you can still be wrecked easily by the Railgunner just watching where the RDV goes and waiting for you to clear the structure or terrain you're using for cover. In addition, even if you get close enough to them to put their glass-cannon fit vehicle in danger, they can simply hop out and recall it within only a few seconds. However, to bring a bit of levity to the discussion, I did see the other day a rather hilarious feet by DUST Fiend. I'm sure we're all familiar with how rapidly tanks accelerate now, and how they use that to withdraw deeper into the redline in order to avoid retaliation. Well, in this case, DUST Fiend flew over one of these railgun tanks and fired down on it, causing the driver to pull back reflexively. However, this resulted in him driving his tank at full speed backwards over a cliff and dying along with his vehicle. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 516	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:04:00 - [215] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Serimos Haeraven wrote: This is probably some of the most comprehensive dialog over dropships and their role on the battlefield I've seen on the forums (and i had a 18+ page topic months ago that Blam replied to), and I feel like many of our ace pilots are getting the point across spot on. Every time i read something a few pages back and want to reply to it, another pilot has already given a 3 paragraph response that's pretty much what i would say haha. CCP better read ALL of this, because if they read from page 1 to the very last pages of this topic they should come away with a pretty daft understanding on what veteran pilots know dropships COULD be, and possibly even what they should do as a fix for this horrible situation we have found ourselves in. Yeah, I've actually been quite enjoying reading through this thread. I also just watched a friend of mine lose a Dropship to a railgun tank on his stream this morning. Now, granted he called it in far too close to the enemy redline, but with 3 Shield Extenders it was almost wrecked before the RDV even dropped it, and then he only got about 100 feet before one final shot knocked it out of the sky. The irritating part about that is that is an exact mirror of what I have had happen to me from 300-400 meters away. Some of them even wait for it to touch the ground and for you to get in before they use a PRO Railgun with Complex Damage Modifiers to turn you into a smoking wreck and get the kill before you can even take off or get your Hardeners on. I've used the tactics that Judge recommends on his YouTube channels for attempting to make safe takeoffs, and you can still be wrecked easily by the Railgunner just watching where the RDV goes and waiting for you to clear the structure or terrain you're using for cover. In addition, even if you get close enough to them to put their glass-cannon fit vehicle in danger, they can simply hop out and recall it within only a few seconds. However, to bring a bit of levity to the discussion, I did see the other day a rather hilarious feet by DUST Fiend. I'm sure we're all familiar with how rapidly tanks accelerate now, and how they use that to withdraw deeper into the redline in order to avoid retaliation. Well, in this case, DUST Fiend flew over one of these railgun tanks and fired down on it, causing the driver to pull back reflexively. However, this resulted in him driving his tank at full speed backwards over a cliff and dying along with his vehicle. I really wish i was there to see that attack by Dust Fiend, because that sounds like absolute eye candy for dropship pilots. I've actually had a similar case where I was attacking a railgun camper ontop of a skyscraper (before recalls existed) and instead of just taking my missiles to his hull and dealing with it, he decided to go full speed off of the edge and free-fall to his death, which happened upon impact when he met the ground. Needless to say i was laughing for quite a while.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:11:00 - [216] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: I really wish i was there to see that attack by Dust Fiend, because that sounds like absolute eye candy for dropship pilots. I've actually had a similar case where I was attacking a railgun camper ontop of a skyscraper (before recalls existed) and instead of just taking my missiles to his hull and dealing with it, he decided to go full speed off of the edge and free-fall to his death, which happened upon impact when he met the ground. Needless to say i was laughing for quite a while. I had a very similar experience, only this rail tank knew its fate and spun its turret around and actually got a shot off at me while he was falling. I give credit to him for actually landing the shot, lucky for me I managed to barley dodge the second before his tank blew up.
Serimos Haeraven Deep Space Republic 517	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:13:00 - [217] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Serimos Haeraven wrote: I really wish i was there to see that attack by Dust Fiend, because that sounds like absolute eye candy for dropship pilots. I've actually had a similar case where I was attacking a railgun camper ontop of a skyscraper (before recalls existed) and instead of just taking my missiles to his hull and dealing with it, he decided to go full speed off of the edge and free-fall to his death, which happened upon impact when he met the ground. Needless to say i was laughing for quite a while. I had a very similar experience, only this rail tank knew its fate and spun its turret around and actually got a shot off at me while he was falling. I give credit to him for actually landing the shot, lucky for me I managed to barley dodge the second before his tank blew up. I would've given that tanker railgunner of the year if he managed to take you down during his fall.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 927	Posted - 2013.12.22 16:42:00 - [218] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: People like me? The reason I disliked it and have disliked it since it's creation is the fact that it's like CCP saying "We're not bothering with gunships for now, so here's a Dropship with a turret stuck to the front", I found it lacked in everyway and wasn't what I'd hoped for when I was piloting. Oh and just to let you know, my sig is "Vehicle Specialist" for a reason, I flew Dropships alongside some of the best pilots, my original intention was to be a gunship pilot with my buds, we were all going to go and create a Vehicle group and work on tactics with one another, quickly fell apart due to Missiles winning all the time. The only reason I've stopped piloting is trying it with a KB/M is ridiculous and I've busted my DS3. I will always maintain that Dropships should be DROPSHIPS, for troop deployment and evac, the side gunners being mostly used for covering Infantry as the ship comes in to pick them up or covering them as they deployed. I always believed the Dropship should be bulky and slow, but have a massive tank, being as difficult, if not more difficult, to destroy than a HAV. I had hoped by release the Gunships would've been out and ready for pilots, it'd be pretty much the same as an ADS, but not be a small turret stuck to the front and it'd be weaker than the envisioned Dropship, but faster and have more damage output. I've enjoyed flying Dropships, the ADS was a breath of fresh air and trying to formation fly with FACES and Foxhound was hilarious and quite enjoyable, still dislike it due to CCP pretending a Dropship is the same thing as a gunship though. So please, don't class me as "just a tanker" who did nothing else but tank, I drive all vehicles, it is my intention to master, or atleast become proficient in every vehicle in the game. Fair enough jason, I don't read peoples tags and apologize for calling you something your not. When I said people like you, I meant people who don't seem to grasp the concept of the assault dropship. Allow me to expand on that, the assault dropship is still a dropship as it can carry up to 4 mercs with turrets fitted. It is a variant of the dropship that fills a niche role, it requires a very good team of shock troops but they have a dropship that can give some cover. Many pilots do use it as a gunship because indeed it does have a gun, but it clearly is not a gunship. I never envisioned the dropship to be slow and bulky, mostly because its a medium aeiral vehicle. What you describe is what I envision a heavy aeiral vehicle to be, especially the part about them being as hard to take down as an hav. Maybe we just have different views on this, but the dropship is close to how I envisioned it. I envision gunships to be slow terrifying beasts that can deliver devastating fire power from the air. They sacrafise speed and some maneuverability for MOR DAKKA and killing power. Of course they would have a better tank than a dropship however the dropship can still out maneuver it and fly away faster. Gunships aren't air superiority, they are air to ground. They shouldn't become fighters. I envision them as heavy aircraft rather than medium as they should cost more. There are two key differences between the assault dropship and this gunship, 1. The gunship has far more firepower than the assault dropship, 2. The gunship has room for only one gunner, the assault dropship has room for 4 mercs. That's how I see the difference and why I will fly assault dropships after gunships come out. Anyway this is a good discussion and I will make a thread for it, I'm sure judge doesn't want us derailing the very serious issue he has brought up here and I would like that discussion to continue. PS, come fly with me sometime, I would like to see your skills THE ADS. IT'S A HUEY HELICOPTER. IT MAKES SENSE! P.S. Pvt. I'll gitchu for ma tank man! Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Ryme Intrinseca 399	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:38:00 - [219] - Quote Whatever problem there is with dropships, the fix is not to remove large rail turrets. If you did that blaster tanks would be even more OP than they are already.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 287	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:49:00 - [220] - Quote Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. So long as it goes for snipers as well.

Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 287	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:51:00 - [221] - Quote Last night I had my ADS shot down by a redline proto rail tanker. I promptly respawned in my demo suit and threw some RE's on my LAV. It was beautiful taking him out when he thought he was safe.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 475	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:29:00 - [222] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: THE ADS. IT'S A HUEY HELICOPTER. IT MAKES SENSE! P.S. Pvt. I'll gitchu for ma tank man! Challenge accepted please don't redline snipe, I won't consider that a win. I've been using a very squishy fit that relies heavily on my skill so you have a good chance! See you on the battlefield!
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 90	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:00:00 - [223] - Quote The redline is OP, it lets bad players think there contributing.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1052	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:42:00 - [224] - Quote Let's say you cannot shoot into or out of a redline. We need to stop peepers. So once you leave you cannot return for 4 minutes. That's plenty of time that you won't use all your ammo. However. Some map redesign I think will be needed, Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 476	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:53:00 - [225] - Quote You know all of this talk about "Red line rail tanks". I have to be honest, 90% + of games I am in there are no red line rail tanks. All of the tanks are out fighting and killing. I can't say for certain however I will test this now, but it seems to me dropships are a LOT harder to kill now they they ever were before UNLESS you are using a railgun tank or railgun installation. I was trying to swarm a DS the other day, the missiles did jack ****, any damage they did do the DS could easily rep. That was compounded by the fact swarms range is pathetic now. With my forge gun I found that ok I could do reasonable damage but the DS would be long gone as soon as it took the first hit and again, they could rep the damage I could cause. No to me it seems railguns are the only viable tactic to kill a DS unless the dropship pilot is a total moron.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1052	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:57:00 - [226] - Quote The thing you must remember when saying that pilots escape, or seem to win is that you are not them. You see that one fight. I fly a lot. I know many who do, and I play with many of the best pilots this game has to offer. They die to AV. I die to AV. You may not see it but play 20 dropship matches as if you want to win and you will see deaths from swarms and forges. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 476	Posted - 2013.12.22 20:03:00 - [227] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The thing you must remember when saying that pilots escape, or seem to win is that you are not them. You see that one fight. I fly a lot. I know many who do, and I play with many of the best pilots this game has to offer. They die to AV. I die to AV. You may not see it but play 20 dropship matches as if you want to win and you will see deaths from swarms and forges. That is very true. Like I said before I did spend a lot of time as an ADS pilot when they first came out but I droped them completely as soon as I realised they were a bit of a gimmick. However I do use AV a lot and I am yet to kill a dropship without using a railgun. I remember back when I used the ADS forge guns would kill me all the time but like I said its not so easy now. Judge - What did you think to the suggestion a few pages back where we discussed removing the redline so you guys could venture into it, but at the downside of having player operated turrets onboard the MCC that would be powerful (To discourage spawn farming) ?
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1930	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:03:00 - [228] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The thing you must remember when saying that pilots escape, or seem to win is that you are not them. You see that one fight. I fly a lot. I know many who do, and I play with many of the best pilots this game has to offer. They die to AV. I die to AV. You may not see it but play 20 dropship matches as if you want to win and you will see deaths from swarms and forges. That is very true. Like I said before I did spend a lot of time as an ADS pilot when they first came out but I droped them completely as soon as I realised they were a bit of a gimmick. However I do use AV a lot and I am yet to kill a dropship without using a railgun. I remember back when I used the ADS forge guns would kill me all the time but like I said its not so easy now. Judge - What did you think to the suggestion a few pages back where we discussed removing the redline so you guys could venture into it, but at the downside of having player operated turrets onboard the MCC that would be powerful (To discourage spawn farming) ? you mean this? Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 169	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:42:00 - [229] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: You know all of this talk about "Red line rail tanks". I have to be honest, 90% + of games I am in there are no red line rail tanks. All of the tanks are out fighting and killing. I can't say for certain however I will test this now, but it seems to me dropships are a LOT harder to kill now they they ever were before UNLESS you are using a railgun tank or railgun installation. I was trying to swarm a DS the other day, the missiles did jack ****, any damage they did do the DS could easily rep. That was compounded by the fact swarms range is pathetic now. With my forge gun I found that ok I could do reasonable damage but the DS would be long gone as soon as it took the first hit and again, they could rep the damage I could cause. No to me it seems railguns are the only viable tactic to kill a DS unless the dropship pilot is a total moron. did you or did you not cause the pilot to flee asap? also swarms need a damage buff by 20 recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 249	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:25:00 - [230] - Quote Redline tanks are not automatically unstoppable. I've been on both sides of the redline game, and I've killed and been killed by rail tanks. Some guys will just run with a failing strategy and blow through 20 ADS in a match, and others find their inner killer instinct with a suicidal RE-packed LAV. Also, a no SP Sica can spawn camp the redline, but that's not nearly as fun. Dropships have always annoyed me. They facilitate rooftop snipers (forge and rifles) - tactics I despise, and it's little different from redline camping/hiding. Same attitude. Pilots asked for a chance, they didn't like being threatened by infantry, so now we have to call in tanks to counter their cowardly tactics. I do it because I have to, and if I can discourage future harassment, that's a win-win. If these pilots had their way, I'd need to build a DS covered in REs to have a chance at killing another dropship. That would be silly, but nobody should feel safe anywhere on the battlefield. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG

Tectonic Fusion 780	Posted - 2013.12.23 04:48:00 - [231] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. Immune in the redline? Those are the most ones I kill... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 136	Posted - 2013.12.23 09:41:00 - [232] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: You know all of this talk about "Red line rail tanks". I have to be honest, 90% + of games I am in there are no red line rail tanks. All of the tanks are out fighting and killing. I can't say for certain however I will test this now, but it seems to me dropships are a LOT harder to kill now they they ever were before UNLESS you are using a railgun tank or railgun installation. I was trying to swarm a DS the other day, the missiles did jack ****, any damage they did do the DS could easily rep. That was compounded by the fact swarms range is pathetic now. With my forge gun I found that ok I could do reasonable damage but the DS would be long gone as soon as it took the first hit and again, they could rep the damage I could cause. No to me it seems railguns are the only viable tactic to kill a DS unless the dropship pilot is a total moron. Spot on my friend. I lose my dropship when I land to ninja hack or put down links. It's almost god mode when in the air. However there is some railtankers that have crasy aim like Pegasis Prime that takes me down regardless. That's player skill noting else. CCP plz nerf Pegasis Prime he is just a to dam good tanker. =ƒÿä Regards
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 136	Posted - 2013.12.23 09:50:00 - [233] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I haven't been flying until recently now some of my skills are back up but I agree, Railguns are a big problem, not just for DS's but for fair all players. The same can be said for snipers. The problem is simple - The redline. We need it for deployment. We need a staging area. Fine. Being able to shoot from the redline without any effective counter is fundamentally detrimental to the game. There is no risk - reward system. They are completely untouchable. We should be able to use skill and tactics to locate distant threats, outmanoeuvre them and then bring them into a situation where we are rewarded for our clever gameplay by turning the tables on our attackers. We need a mechanic that encourages players to engage fully onto the field. Perhaps a better reward system or a reduced damage from the redline. To get them out of hiding and make them fair game for all players. Missed this one. You kind of nailed it. Remove the red line and lot of the problems are solved. Nothing more fun then to sneak up on a rail rank and put remotes on his fat as =ƒÿä However it can't be done in the redline can it ? =ƒÿñ
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 181	Posted - 2013.12.23 10:22:00 - [234] - Quote Shley Ashes wrote: Thought I'd chime in, you know me Judge so hit me up in squad about this Railguns are currently the most effective counter to all vehicles, FACT They will always be balanced against HAV's primarily, which means they will wreck all other forms of vehicle, so if you want to reduce its effectiveness against DS you're going to need to either have a counter available on them or remove HAV's ability to engage DS with the railgun, You know I think HAV's are broken(I've told you so), also that I think AV received to high a nerf, herein lies the biggest problem to the current railgun issue, I can't whip out a forge gun easily to engage you anymore(because I'm not a great shot with it), or LoLswarms(range nerf/dmg nerf), heck I can't even fire upon you with small arms because LoLsmallarms, throw AV grenades doubt you'll be that low and my throwing arm isn't great. However I can call in a 69k tank and blat you with that, from the relative safety of the redline !!! What I see as the issues are: 1) Current AV is ineffective in most situations 2) HAV's are balanced against HAV's ((at least I think thats what CCP went for)also I don't think they are balanced) 3) Militia railgun tanks to easily accessabile possible fixes: 1) buff current AV (least likely to work) 2) lower HAV's ability to engage higher objects. e.g. reduce turret elevation for railguns 3) Replace the Militia railgun on the Sica with a Large Militia Missile Launcher (MT-1) Also redline issue, something needs to be addressed where damage inflicted and received in the redline, everyone dislikes redline snipers of all types, sorry all snipers its true. I for the most part quite like where tanks are at the moment though it isn't perfect. I think there are maybe a few issues with av currently (I'd be in favor of giving +2 missiles per volley to swarms across non mlt tiers so while hardeners are up they can still do some incidental damage but they're a bit more powerful when they're down) and a few issues with shield recharge times on tanks (4seconds is exactly the same amount of time it takes to wind up a non assault forge shot). But to me it seems like most of the complaining is being done by those without av or those refusing to properly use av. That said I'm on both ends of the spectrum, tanks have gotten a bit too accessible and some variants are much too powerful. A small nerf to large blaster damage would fix some problems I think, as would mucking about with mlt fitting costs. As for rails I'm not sure what the primary issue with them is because there seems to be a combination of problems (range, damage, RoF, ammo, damage mod efficacy, redlines, etc) but I think the best place to start would maybe be a 10% damage hit on large rails and a reduction of the efficacy of damage modules on large rails by ~5-7.5%. Maybe simply adding some dispersion to the weapon at ranges longer than 250m is needed.
Happy Violentime L0ST PR0FITS 161	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:44:00 - [235] - Quote Dropship pilots pfft - use tactics, hover low and use cover rather than just float around in an empty sky like a huge floating target LOL
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 290	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:57:00 - [236] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Redline tanks are not automatically unstoppable. I've been on both sides of the redline game, and I've killed and been killed by rail tanks. Some guys will just run with a failing strategy and blow through 20 ADS in a match, and others find their inner killer instinct with a suicidal RE-packed LAV. Also, a no SP Sica can spawn camp the redline, but that's not nearly as fun. Dropships have always annoyed me. They facilitate rooftop snipers (forge and rifles) - tactics I despise, and it's little different from redline camping/hiding. Same attitude. Pilots asked for a chance, they didn't like being threatened by infantry, so now we have to call in tanks to counter their cowardly tactics. I do it because I have to, and if I can discourage future harassment, that's a win-win. If these pilots had their way, I'd need to build a DS covered in REs to have a chance at killing another dropship. That would be silly, but nobody should feel safe anywhere on the battlefield. If I am flying my ADS and I see a spawn uplink and a infantry near each other on a roof my first target is the uplink. Some times I get lucky and catch people just as they spawn into it, which has to suck for them but I'am not going to let em keep spawning up there.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1156	Posted - 2013.12.23 23:52:00 - [237] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: If I am flying my ADS and I see a spawn uplink and a infantry near each other on a roof my first target is the uplink. Some times I get lucky and catch people just as they spawn into it, which has to suck for them but I'am not going to let em keep spawning up there. Thats usually how I do it as well, its left over paranoia from having ppl i kill on towers respawn with proto swarms or forges.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 199	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:43:00 - [238] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Dropship pilots pfft - use tactics, hover low and use cover rather than just float around in an empty sky like a huge floating target LOL So...where's the cover? Don't I need to know where the threat is? I might figure it out after losing a couple of expensive ships, assuming the threat doesn't move. Except I don't get any useful information in my kill screen (if I didn't bail) that helps me figure it out. If I did bail, I get nothing. What about when I can't get into my ship coz it already got blown up as it was RDV'ed in? Don't assume those complaining aren't doing the things you've said - many posts here talk about these things not helping much. You've decided the complaints are coming from noobs apparently. I'd like to see at the very least some sort of threat radar or electronics to give some useful data on where the danger is.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2453	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:09:00 - [239] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Dropship pilots pfft - use tactics, hover low and use cover rather than just float around in an empty sky like a huge floating target LOL Brah, do you even Dropship? We finally deployed in the MinFW Match! \o/
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 182	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:24:00 - [240] - Quote Atiim wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Dropship pilots pfft - use tactics, hover low and use cover rather than just float around in an empty sky like a huge floating target LOL Brah, do you even Dropship? he doesn't, but swarms need a slight buff recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit

Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 479	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:39:00 - [241] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Redline tanks are not automatically unstoppable. I've been on both sides of the redline game, and I've killed and been killed by rail tanks. Some guys will just run with a failing strategy and blow through 20 ADS in a match, and others find their inner killer instinct with a suicidal RE-packed LAV. Also, a no SP Sica can spawn camp the redline, but that's not nearly as fun. Dropships have always annoyed me. They facilitate rooftop snipers (forge and rifles) - tactics I despise, and it's little different from redline camping/hiding. Same attitude. Pilots asked for a chance, they didn't like being threatened by infantry, so now we have to call in tanks to counter their cowardly tactics. I do it because I have to, and if I can discourage future harassment, that's a win-win. If these pilots had their way, I'd need to build a DS covered in REs to have a chance at killing another dropship. That would be silly, but nobody should feel safe anywhere on the battlefield. The issue is that the cannot be fought, not that they are unstoppable. I too am annoyed by people who just use dropships to get on a rooftop by either crashing (most of the time) or landing and recalling. These people aren't pilots, they shouldn't be counted when thinking of dropship pilots. I usually never drop people on roof tops as its a stupid tactic that usually looses the game for my team. I do drop off the occasional sniper, but most snipers get up on roofs using ladders anyway. The biggest difference between rooftop camping and redline camping is that you can fight one. Its not that we didn't like being threatened by infantry either, we didn't have fun being destroyed by one guy with proto swarms. A threat implies something you can run from or deal with, past av was far to strong to be considered just a threat, it was a monster and one av guy could deny the entire map to us and force us to be completely useless. well except for dropping people on rooftops, yes that was av's fault. My "cowardly tactics" involve transporting shock and hacker teams to points to keep them on lock, destroying wannabe pilots preventing them from landing on rooftops and deploying uplinks, clearing rooftops and destroying equipment, finding mountain snipers and killing them, scouting positions and objectives for friendlies, destroying instalations, providing cover for ground teams when they are outnumbered, extract when things get too hot, destroy tanks (if I have gunners) or harass them for infantry. All of these require me to risk my dropship and fly into the danger zone, I cannot preform any of these tasks without risking my dropship. A red line rail tank can two shot me and I can't even fight him unless I have 3 other wingmen in assault dropships. Now that's cowardly, he doesn't even have to leave his safe zone to kill us. You don't need a rail tank to bring down a dropship, trust me. A forge can also bring one down, and two or three swarms can if they work together. A rail tank can also bring down dropships when not in the red, again trust me I know. If I had my way they couldn't sit like pu$$ys in the red, they would have to risk something just like me.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 487	Posted - 2013.12.24 02:33:00 - [242] - Quote Atiim wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Dropship pilots pfft - use tactics, hover low and use cover rather than just float around in an empty sky like a huge floating target LOL Brah, do you even Dropship? Unfortunately this is NOT Battlefield where that is a very valid tactic in the attack helis (Gunships)
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 487	Posted - 2013.12.24 02:35:00 - [243] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: You know all of this talk about "Red line rail tanks". I have to be honest, 90% + of games I am in there are no red line rail tanks. All of the tanks are out fighting and killing. I can't say for certain however I will test this now, but it seems to me dropships are a LOT harder to kill now they they ever were before UNLESS you are using a railgun tank or railgun installation. I was trying to swarm a DS the other day, the missiles did jack ****, any damage they did do the DS could easily rep. That was compounded by the fact swarms range is pathetic now. With my forge gun I found that ok I could do reasonable damage but the DS would be long gone as soon as it took the first hit and again, they could rep the damage I could cause. No to me it seems railguns are the only viable tactic to kill a DS unless the dropship pilot is a total moron. did you or did you not cause the pilot to flee asap? also swarms need a damage buff by 20 Well with the swarms they didnt seem to care, with the forge yes they did get out of dodge pretty fast but they just come back and do the same again, while in the mean time I have probably been killed multiple times. I could also say the same about tanks, hell we could use that argument for the whole game but then nothing would be destroyed. "Well you made him turn tail and run didn't you!?"........
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1329	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:07:00 - [244] - Quote i say this as soon as 1.7 is releases and everyone thinks i'm wrong. he posts it and everyone thinks he's a genious. ... sometimes i wonder ppl. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 3332	Posted - 2013.12.24 07:43:00 - [245] - Quote bump When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 545	Posted - 2013.12.28 05:48:00 - [246] - Quote Bumping this as well, mainly because a tanker from Ancient Exiles redline sniped me and then started bragging about how the height celing is like a dropships redline, and that I am only an "annoying mosquito". Except he forgot to take into consideration that dropships can't shoot anything, let alone do 2300+ dmg in 1 shot from across the map in any direction I please from the "redline".
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 609	Posted - 2013.12.28 06:15:00 - [247] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. you are confusing issues. The issue you are complaining about there, is that redline is broken, not that rail tanks are broken. Quote: This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? To make your point properly on this one, you need to post how you are fitting your dropship. I will make the presumption that you are fitting your dropship well. however, ccp doesnt officially know that, unless you explicitly say so in your complaint. also, as a side issue to you, in case ccp doesnt address your complaint (and I wouldnt expect them to)... since you have a bounty on your head, so to speak... might i suggest you use afterburners more? They cant hit you, if they cant track you. and railguns are terrible at tracking, after all.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1094	Posted - 2013.12.28 11:05:00 - [248] - Quote I think you might need to see the Issue from my perspective Quill. Hence (delayed by that christian holiday)my upcoming video. The tank itself is a problem and the reline the main cause. THe redline is an issue for snipers too, but in this case the tanks ability is heightened by the redline. It still has issues not related or governed by the redline. Chiefly elevation. As regards fitting and movement. Map design is such that the rail tank can cover huge parts of the map including often every objective (airspace we are talking about here) from great distance. The issue this causes is that they can hit a dropship almost anywhere. This negates the design decision of active modules giving us a strong attack window. Dropships have no attack window. We can be hit so easily from so far that we have few retreat options. Afterburners are not the solution. A variety of fits should be available and viable, scanners, CRUs etc. Forcing me to use a certain tactic because of a broken game element is a poor fix. not a proper solution. Also you are right about me being a somewhat poor example. I am a well known and prized trophy. SO I seem to bring out the rail tanks in the redline wherever I go. (sorry any pilots who fly with me) The video will make my points clearer. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1216	Posted - 2013.12.28 11:31:00 - [249] - Quote Yesterday they 1shot me, didn't hear any noise. "Our Blueberries are better than yours" *My Terribad Bolas Launcher*
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 546	Posted - 2013.12.28 22:25:00 - [250] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I think you might need to see the Issue from my perspective Quill. Hence (delayed by that christian holiday)my upcoming video. The video will make my points clearer. I've been stalking your youtube channel waiting, WHENS IT COMIN'!?

Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 614	Posted - 2013.12.30 00:47:00 - [251] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As regards fitting and movement. Map design is such that the rail tank can cover huge parts of the map including often every objective (airspace we are talking about here) from great distance. The issue this causes is that they can hit a dropship almost anywhere. This negates the design decision of active modules giving us a strong attack window. Dropships have no attack window. We can be hit so easily from so far that we have few retreat options. Afterburners are not the solution. A variety of fits should be available and viable, scanners, CRUs etc. Forcing me to use a certain tactic because of a broken game element is a poor fix. not a proper solution. Well.. you're entitled to your opinion. However, i respectfully disagree, having a different opinion. Afterburners are a solution. They're not the solution you want... but that doesnt suddenly make them "not a solution". Also, your wording isnt helping. If you replace it with more neutral language, ie: "Forcing me to use a certain tactic, because of one specific game element", it becomes clearer, that this is not neccessarily a game breaking issue. Even if you dont believe that, it is still a fact that a reasonably equipped dropship, should be able to survive at least one hit, and then be able to take some sort of appropriate action. Unless of course, it is just gently floating in the air like a blimp saying "hit me hit me hit me!" Now, there is an edge case, for triple stacked damage mods, making a single hit overly extreme. I would suggest that this is not an issue of "rail tanks are broken", but rather, "damage mods are broken". Perhaps you should lobby for damage mods not being stackable. I for one, would be all behind that, since it would make infantry lives much better as well.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 515	Posted - 2013.12.30 04:51:00 - [252] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As regards fitting and movement. Map design is such that the rail tank can cover huge parts of the map including often every objective (airspace we are talking about here) from great distance. The issue this causes is that they can hit a dropship almost anywhere. This negates the design decision of active modules giving us a strong attack window. Dropships have no attack window. We can be hit so easily from so far that we have few retreat options. Afterburners are not the solution. A variety of fits should be available and viable, scanners, CRUs etc. Forcing me to use a certain tactic because of a broken game element is a poor fix. not a proper solution. Well.. you're entitled to your opinion. However, i respectfully disagree, having a different opinion. Afterburners are a solution. They're not the solution you want... but that doesnt suddenly make them "not a solution". Also, your wording isnt helping. If you replace it with more neutral language, ie: "Forcing me to use a certain tactic, because of one specific game element", it becomes clearer, that this is not neccessarily a game breaking issue. Even if you dont believe that, it is still a fact that a reasonably equipped dropship, should be able to survive at least one hit, and then be able to take some sort of appropriate action. Unless of course, it is just gently floating in the air like a blimp saying "hit me hit me hit me!" Now, there is an edge case, for triple stacked damage mods, making a single hit overly extreme. I would suggest that this is not an issue of "rail tanks are broken", but rather, "damage mods are broken". Perhaps you should lobby for damage mods not being stackable. I for one, would be all behind that, since it would make infantry lives much better as well. Edit: I personally have hit a dropship, with a non-damage-modded rail tank, with around 6(maybe 5) shots in the same clip... and it still survived. So that's the biggest reason why I disagree that rail tanks are broken, even with respect to dropshits. (admittedly, MOST dropships, go down in flames after 3 shots. But we already know that most dropship fits out there are laughable) I have to agree, when stacking damage mods on a rail tank - ok maybe you can one or two shot a DS however I have seen the armour dropship with its hardeners on take 4 shots from a rail and still survive.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1097	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:41:00 - [253] - Quote Quill you keep repeating without stateing a definitive. So lets cut the waffle. Do you think that redline rail tanks with 600m range and 1:1.2 elevation are balanced weapons? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 616	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:43:00 - [254] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Quill you keep repeating without stateing a definitive. So lets cut the waffle. Do you think that redline rail tanks with 600m rage and 1:1.2 elevation are balanced weapons? okay... I think the range is fine. I think the elevation is fine. I thnk REDLINE sucks. CCP needs to fix redline, not the tanks.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1097	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:45:00 - [255] - Quote Cool. So where we disagree mainly is the elevation. What about map design having airspace that is too open? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 548	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:46:00 - [256] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As regards fitting and movement. Map design is such that the rail tank can cover huge parts of the map including often every objective (airspace we are talking about here) from great distance. The issue this causes is that they can hit a dropship almost anywhere. This negates the design decision of active modules giving us a strong attack window. Dropships have no attack window. We can be hit so easily from so far that we have few retreat options. Afterburners are not the solution. A variety of fits should be available and viable, scanners, CRUs etc. Forcing me to use a certain tactic because of a broken game element is a poor fix. not a proper solution. Well.. you're entitled to your opinion. However, i respectfully disagree, having a different opinion. Afterburners are a solution. They're not the solution you want... but that doesnt suddenly make them "not a solution". Also, your wording isnt helping. If you replace it with more neutral language, ie: "Forcing me to use a certain tactic, because of one specific game element", it becomes clearer, that this is not neccessarily a game breaking issue. Even if you dont believe that, it is still a fact that a reasonably equipped dropship, should be able to survive at least one hit, and then be able to take some sort of appropriate action. Unless of course, it is just gently floating in the air like a blimp saying "hit me hit me hit me!" Now, there is an edge case, for triple stacked damage mods, making a single hit overly extreme. I would suggest that this is not an issue of "rail tanks are broken", but rather, "damage mods are broken". Perhaps you should lobby for damage mods not being stackable. I for one, would be all behind that, since it would make infantry lives much better as well. Edit: I personally have hit a dropship, with a non-damage-modded rail tank, with around 6(maybe 5) shots in the same clip... and it still survived. So that's the biggest reason why I disagree that rail tanks are broken, even with respect to dropships. (admittedly, MOST dropships, go down in flames after 3 shots. But we already know that most dropship fits out there are laughable) (Gah.. edit #2: fixed a rude typo I didnt realize I made :-/ ) Afterburners are absolutely NO solution to a redline tank that can shoot 1-2 shot kills from a point that no one can reach, it's only a way to avoid being killed by that abuse of a mechanic for a second. And half the time afterburners aren't even enough because the charge time is so small so the next shot comes in before you have time to activate the burner. Just the fact you consider a tank sitting behind an unreachable space 1-2, (or even 5-6) shotting dropships without having to worry 1 bit about his vehicle is fair is absolute idiocracy. I'm sorry, but there isn't really room for respectful discussion when you try to assert that afterburners are our answer to this huge problem, because veteran pilots like Judge and I know for a fact it isn't, and you surely aren't helping the problem by asserting that it's just damage mods that are the issue, when it's the mechanic of a redline allowing them to sit in invulnerable space and take down whatever they please that's the real issue.
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 69	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:50:00 - [257] - Quote I agree that something needs to be done about this.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 220	Posted - 2013.12.30 21:33:00 - [258] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: TL;DR remove the redlines, bring in more alternative starting spawnpoints and spread them out far apart on the edges of each map. I very much agree with this notion. The biggest issue is the redline and the intent to counter being completely annihilated. Multiple (4-6) alternate spawn locations around a map would allow people to avoid being immediately engaged. I think a larger player count per match would help too...but that's a different box of frogs...
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 616	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:10:00 - [259] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Cool. So where we disagree mainly is the elevation. What about map design having airspace that is too open? Umm... isnt airspace supposed to be... err, you know.. mostly... AIR? Try thinking less like a flying tank, and more like a gunship pilot in Vietnam. (after all, dropships are supposed to be "light" aircraft, arent they??) From what I heard, they had to hug the ground, because otherwise, they'd be taken out with AA. If you fly lower, you're going to be behind buildings most of the time, There are a few really bad maps for that sort of thing. But ya know what? Too Bad. There are some really bad maps for scouts, too. We dont get to say, "that map is too tough for us you have to remove it". Neither do dropship pilots. Just use something else, or bail from the battle. Also... it's unreasonable to make the assumption you seem to be making, of "Dropships should ALWAYS have a way to win!!" They shouldnt. Sometimes they do... and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they should need to rely on infantry. Or tanks. If you are complaining, "dropships used to be able to dominate on all maps, but now they cant"... guess what? that means CCP has actually brought more balance into the game. That's a *good* thing. So welcome to the party ------------------------------------------ Edit: Tanks are a huge force against infantry, but they have a weakness, albeit a tough one: Remote Explosives. Almost any tank can be surprised by remote explosives, and taken out in ONE SHOT. Dropships cant be taken out by remote explosives usually. So it seems somewhat fair to me, that they have a different weakness: rail tanks. And you're lucky: most of the time, it isnt a one-shot death either :)
Christiphoros von Poe Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:31:00 - [260] - Quote I have also found out that going down instead of up after being hit by a Railgun increases your chances of survival. I am a new pilot so I'm not giving advice, just my experience. Now I usually just fly low to the ground all the time and it seems to be working so far with 1 dropship lost every 5 matches or so. I fought at Caldari Prime Closed Beta Vet

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1107	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:37:00 - [261] - Quote Too many strawmen there Quill. I can't really respond to that. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 616	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:43:00 - [262] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Too many strawmen there Quill. I can't really respond to that. Sounds like you have a rather locked mentality about this. Do you believe, "Dropships should always have a way to win"? or to put it another way, "Dropships should be able to beat anything else"? if no, then tell us what the balancing weakness for dropships is?
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 350	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:48:00 - [263] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Too many strawmen there Quill. I can't really respond to that. Sounds like you have a rather locked mentality about this. Do you believe, "Dropships should always have a way to win"? or to put it another way, "Dropships should be able to beat anything else"? if no, then tell us what the balancing weakness for dropships is? i don't fly, but hey... Thats what tankers like to say in every post.... Once you try "HMG-FAT" you never get back...
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 117	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:03:00 - [264] - Quote My dropship was killed once.. I took a scout suite.. damped it.. reviewed the map then called my dropship in behind cover. ... then I put remotes on it and found myself a juicie tank to kamikaze. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1925	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:29:00 - [265] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. Why not just decrease tracking speed? Rails have BAD tracking speeds in EVE it'd make them unable to move their turret around up close and force them to snipe... A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 3392	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:42:00 - [266] - Quote No blue tag yet.... When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2846	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:43:00 - [267] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: No blue tag yet.... Are you surprised? ...
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 3392	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:45:00 - [268] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: No blue tag yet.... Are you surprised? Maybe. When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE! nú+
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1843	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:45:00 - [269] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. Why not just decrease tracking speed? Rails have BAD tracking speeds in EVE it'd make them unable to move their turret around up close and force them to snipe... The tracking speed already sucks enough in TvT without proficiency. I can nitrous sidle a Gunnlogi and without proficiency, he can't even hit me. Lowering it further would force even more into the red line which is the opposite of what is desired. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
FAKIR REDETTa 0uter.Heaven 57	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:47:00 - [270] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. adapt or die tank so op use tank

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1109	Posted - 2013.12.31 00:00:00 - [271] - Quote FAKIR REDETTa wrote: adapt or die tank so op use tank Thank you for your contribution. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1844	Posted - 2013.12.31 00:01:00 - [272] - Quote FAKIR REDETTa wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. adapt or die tank so op use tank "The golden gun is OP! Everyone use the golden gun and nothing else!" Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2388	Posted - 2013.12.31 00:17:00 - [273] - Quote It's much easier to not play dust, than it is to fool myself into thinking they'll fix things like small rails, small blasters, or large rail guns anytime before the apocalypse. lets be realistic. CCP is ignoring this game largely till PS4 comes out. They're paying development lip-service enough to trick some die hard vets into continuing to play or support the game. But it's a bare minimum approach - no use wasting time or throwing resources into a black hole. PS3 can't handle what they need to do here. And their PR team can't handle the blow back from being honest about it.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 235	Posted - 2013.12.31 00:21:00 - [274] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. That's a joke i hope. Railgun Turrets are slow as **** even with skills. Shooting in movement is WAAAAAY harder than with missiles or blasters. And to finish Railgun ARE MEANT to be THE antivehicule Turret. At the same level an Blaster is not supposed to even POSSIBLY beat an railgun. Blasters are Meant for Anti-Infantry and Light vehicules. That's what they do and terribly the infantry has no chance to survive and the blaster can engage 10 of them without problem. Working as intended. Railgun are supposed to be the Anti-Vehicules turret. That's also what they do destroying vehicules fast from far but need some skills to be effective (without the the skill to move the turret faster the ennemy tank have just to rush and go behind you the time to retourn your turret you're already dead. TWICE. Taking out infantry is pretty hard and pretty meaningless (exept against forge gunners). So that's working as intended. Just maybe the turrer shouldn't be able to see that high (killing dropships too easily). Missiles are average making infantry and vehicules. I never played with them so i can't really talk about them. I mean it's like i was complaining because blasters can actually killl infantry....While it's their purpose. Rail gun are not really Op. (With double damagers ALL turrets are a little op )
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 204	Posted - 2013.12.31 01:00:00 - [275] - Quote Whats that redline sniping is OP??? say it isn't so!!!! the elevation isn't the issue tho rails could use a small elevation nerf, its people siting so far back that elevation is a non issue and counter attack is even less of an issue, once again we need to remove WP and isk gain from actions taken in the red line. but no one wants to hear it.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 204	Posted - 2013.12.31 01:07:00 - [276] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I think a huge nerf to range would help to solve all of the railgun problems. Maybe 350m at most would still keep it as a viable long range weapon without giving it the ability to control the whole battlefield from one location. Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. I like the recoil idea. I've found it funny how I can aim at a Bolas from across the map and just hold R1 and watch it get destroyed. in the current battle field yes both sniper and rail range are too long but these map sizes are not going to be the limit, frankly I would rather see the the low-no risk for a high reward be removed from redline sniping all together, either they get no reward or, snipers/rails can't be fired from the red line, or you get a 60 sec timer when you fire these guns in the redline to get out or die.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2389	Posted - 2013.12.31 01:16:00 - [277] - Quote When behind friendly redline, you have 120 second to GET OUT the first time. Or you die. If you re-enter your friendly red-zone it counts down the same as enemy red-zone. 30 second or you die. Remove all bloody supply depots, and turret installations from within any red-line. profit.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1111	Posted - 2013.12.31 09:39:00 - [278] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: once again we need to remove WP and isk gain from actions taken in the red line. but no one wants to hear it. That would not help. The redline tanks would still stay in the redline for the match until they clear enemy tanks and dropships from the field and then come out once safe. Or squads could have several tankers who take it in turns to sit in the reline killing all non redline vehicles. One match of low or zero WP then a few out of the redline. Or a tanker who dies on the field can just hang in the redline to get revenge on better players from safety. Stopping WP or ISK gain will not help solve the issue at all. Any asset; suit or Vehicle, should not be killed by another asset that is not even on the battlefield. If you want to earn ISK you need to risk ISK. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 211	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:28:00 - [279] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: hgghyujh wrote: once again we need to remove WP and isk gain from actions taken in the red line. but no one wants to hear it. That would not help. The redline tanks would still stay in the redline for the match until they clear enemy tanks and dropships from the field and then come out once safe. Or squads could have several tankers who take it in turns to sit in the reline killing all non redline vehicles. One match of low or zero WP then a few out of the redline. Or a tanker who dies on the field can just hang in the redline to get revenge on better players from safety. Stopping WP or ISK gain will not help solve the issue at all. Any asset; suit or Vehicle, should not be killed by another asset that is not even on the battlefield. If you want to earn ISK you need to risk ISK. yea you will always get the occasional poor sport agreed, but by and large the problem is the low risk high reward of red line sniping, you take away any incentive and the problem will all but go away. A little bit a grieffing is not worth hunting down but they should not get rewarded at all for it not even passive, or IMHO even with kills for their KDR.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 959	Posted - 2014.01.05 05:45:00 - [280] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. Most likely it's the damage modifiers that are broken. Base Rails are not that superb - but double or triple stacking damamods, even with stacking penalties, makes the alpha so devastating. It's +30% per mod. Never before I've seen in any ccp game dama mod that high... Tank spam getting onto your nerves? An improvement:

Adelia Lafayette DUST University Ivy League 536	Posted - 2014.01.05 06:29:00 - [281] - Quote I've stopped using my ads in favor of tanking because the second a rail tank or rail instillation has me in its sights I'm screwed. I'd have to agree with you that the rail turret needs something done with it or the maps need something done with them. I've ripped many dropships from the sky with a rail gun. It isn't hard to lead the shot especially if you used to the assault forge gun and know how to fly a dropship. It makes flight path prediction easy. I can at least cower behind a building from a forge gunner. Assault dropship gets blown up.... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"... ..."I'm back"
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 606	Posted - 2014.01.05 07:04:00 - [282] - Quote Adelia Lafayette wrote: I've stopped using my ads in favor of tanking because the second a rail tank or rail instillation has me in its sights I'm screwed. I'd have to agree with you that the rail turret needs something done with it or the maps need something done with them. I've ripped many dropships from the sky with a rail gun. It isn't hard to lead the shot especially if you used to the assault forge gun and know how to fly a dropship. It makes flight path prediction easy. I can at least cower behind a building from a forge gunner. That's sad :( I've seen many pilots switch to tanking this build. This is the best the dropship has ever been, I am still enjoying flying even with this age old problem proliferated. If you were ever interested in flying, now would be the best time.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1137	Posted - 2014.01.05 09:56:00 - [283] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Most likely it's the damage modifiers that are broken. Base Rails are not that superb - but double or triple stacking damamods, even with stacking penalties, makes the alpha so devastating. It's +30% per mod. Never before I've seen in any ccp game dama mod that high... The damage mods are fine. They can only afford to give up HP in favor of damage mods as they don't need defence as they are so deep in the redline and cannot get hit. If they had to leave the redline running 3 damage mods would mean death from AV or other tanks. So the 3x stacking is a symptom of the redline issue Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 235	Posted - 2014.01.05 10:26:00 - [284] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Most likely it's the damage modifiers that are broken. Base Rails are not that superb - but double or triple stacking damamods, even with stacking penalties, makes the alpha so devastating. It's +30% per mod. Never before I've seen in any ccp game dama mod that high... The damage mods are fine. They can only afford to give up HP in favor of damage mods as they don't need defence as they are so deep in the redline and cannot get hit. If they had to leave the redline running 3 damage mods would mean death from AV or other tanks. So the 3x stacking is a symptom of the redline issue So would a weapons lock within the redline be a possible solution as there are already overlapping buffers in each sides redline which would stop one side being redlined and unable to fight back. It could be like the rules of war for Dust and once you're out of the red zone you get a small message saying something like "Entering Battlefield Weapons free" and upon entry to redline a message saying "Leaving Battlefield Weapons locked" Maybe?? Thoughts?? Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 165	Posted - 2014.01.05 11:05:00 - [285] - Quote I'd definitely be fine with up to 300-400m range on my rail. Maybe even a ROF tweak. Drop ships should have the same prices as our current tank hulls. Rails should get a range or rof tweak. Make it so the rail turret cannot aim higher than 40 degrees. Give missile turrets 300m range and the ability to aim up to 75 degrees so they can be the inaccurate answer to dropships. Or... Something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCAfkxjuUDU Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution 1444	Posted - 2014.01.05 12:11:00 - [286] - Quote Somebody been sploded. Consider this: NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPEABLE OF KILLING AN ADS. Without rails, an ADS squad is harder to destroy than a tank squad. I understand you don't like my kind, but we are the only thing standing between you guys and a nerf hammer. If we go, then you will be next. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1141	Posted - 2014.01.05 14:08:00 - [287] - Quote Read the OP Charlotte. Its the redline. I lose dropships to players not even in the battle. thats the issue. The range and elevation and damage make it worse but as we keep saying in this thread again and again... Redline. WHile these tanks are here in the redline a very unfair mechanic exists. If they are not fixed or removed temporarily then I will continue to lose ISK to a player who is taking no risk. It is not fair gameplay. A fix is complicated so here is a stopgap : If any player or vehicle is killed from within the redline they die but do NOT lose their suit or vehicle. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9645	Posted - 2014.01.05 14:17:00 - [288] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Somebody been sploded. Consider this: NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPEABLE OF KILLING AN ADS. Without rails, an ADS squad is harder to destroy than a tank squad. I understand you don't like my kind, but we are the only thing standing between you guys and a nerf hammer. If we go, then you will be next. Railguns aren't the problem, redlines are. Let them look up more, I don't care. No one should get free immunity. You say 'NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPABLE OF KILLING AN ADS While completely ignoring that ONLY RAILGUNS CAN KILL REDLINE RAILGUNS, save a well coordinated orbital, with, you guessed it, a railgun. AND, your railgun is at risk since you have to come out of your redline to hit him, while he STILL gets to be safe and sound in the redzone. Redlines are the problem, NOT railguns Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 224	Posted - 2014.01.05 14:22:00 - [289] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Somebody been sploded. Consider this: NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPEABLE OF KILLING AN ADS. Without rails, an ADS squad is harder to destroy than a tank squad. I understand you don't like my kind, but we are the only thing standing between you guys and a nerf hammer. If we go, then you will be next. Railguns aren't the problem, redlines are. Let them look up more, I don't care. No one should get free immunity. You say 'NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPABLE OF KILLING AN ADS While completely ignoring that ONLY RAILGUNS CAN KILL REDLINE RAILGUNS, save a well coordinated orbital, with, you guessed it, a railgun. AND, your railgun is at risk since you have to come out of your redline to hit him, while he STILL gets to be safe and sound in the redzone. Redlines are the problem, NOT railguns no, railguns AND redline is broken, reduce damage by 100, reduce fire rate slightly and 400m range or 450 to stop redliners? recuruit link 25 to 30 mil isk per 100k recuruit I use a tablet so beware of typo
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 1014	Posted - 2014.01.05 15:26:00 - [290] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Somebody been sploded. Consider this: NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPEABLE OF KILLING AN ADS. Without rails, an ADS squad is harder to destroy than a tank squad. I understand you don't like my kind, but we are the only thing standing between you guys and a nerf hammer. If we go, then you will be next. Railguns aren't the problem, redlines are. Let them look up more, I don't care. No one should get free immunity. You say 'NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPABLE OF KILLING AN ADS While completely ignoring that ONLY RAILGUNS CAN KILL REDLINE RAILGUNS, save a well coordinated orbital, with, you guessed it, a railgun. AND, your railgun is at risk since you have to come out of your redline to hit him, while he STILL gets to be safe and sound in the redzone. Redlines are the problem, NOT railguns no, railguns AND redline is broken, reduce damage by 100, reduce fire rate slightly and 400m range or 450 to stop redliners? Exactly this. Also increase heat costs so that it overheats on the third consecutive shot. There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to bring a rail tank in CQC and be an iWin button against everything. Gunnlogi rail tanks can only be brought down by another Gunnlogi rail tank, and that is OP. I have been able to bring down only a few with my missile Gunnlogi because I had to be extremely crafty with my tactic in bringing them down. They, on the other hand, require no skill to use. All they do is charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything in their path. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 567	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:07:00 - [291] - Quote One fix that could be a very easy solution to this is the suggestion mentioned above: Reduce the range of railguns by like, half. If railguns finally get a reasonable range to them then the redline would pretty much be negated since they couldn't reach far enough into the sky to hit a dropship because of their reduced range, but they could still easily have tank battles on the ground from far (sort of) away, at least farther than a blaster's range, which is one of the main points of a railgun, the "sniping" capability.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 363	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:58:00 - [292] - Quote Probably been mentioned already, sorry if I repeat. The purpose of the redline, is to give the redlined team a fighting chance. The alternative is be farmed and lose untold amounts of money. The redlines need to tactically favor the redlined team, that is a fact. But it should only favor them up to a certain point outside the redline, say 100m to 200m. So give them a higher elevation, further back in the redline to snipe from, while making any elevation close to the edge of the redline inaccessible. So say a rail gun has 400m range. The only viable vantage point from within the redline, is 200m back from the redline. So you can push back other tanks and vehicles, off your redline, but you don't have the advantage of controlling the map. If you want map control, you set up outside the redline, where at the very least another tank can reach you. This gives them a chance to break out of the redline, and also discourages camping of the redline. As the area around the redline put the opposition at a very disadvantageous position. Couple this with a range nerf, as rails are kinda a bit OP atm. Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 363	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:02:00 - [293] - Quote Harpyja wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Somebody been sploded. Consider this: NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPEABLE OF KILLING AN ADS. Without rails, an ADS squad is harder to destroy than a tank squad. I understand you don't like my kind, but we are the only thing standing between you guys and a nerf hammer. If we go, then you will be next. Railguns aren't the problem, redlines are. Let them look up more, I don't care. No one should get free immunity. You say 'NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPABLE OF KILLING AN ADS While completely ignoring that ONLY RAILGUNS CAN KILL REDLINE RAILGUNS, save a well coordinated orbital, with, you guessed it, a railgun. AND, your railgun is at risk since you have to come out of your redline to hit him, while he STILL gets to be safe and sound in the redzone. Redlines are the problem, NOT railguns no, railguns AND redline is broken, reduce damage by 100, reduce fire rate slightly and 400m range or 450 to stop redliners? Exactly this. Also increase heat costs so that it overheats on the third consecutive shot. There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to bring a rail tank in CQC and be an iWin button against everything. Gunnlogi rail tanks can only be brought down by another Gunnlogi rail tank, and that is OP. I have been able to bring down only a few with my missile Gunnlogi because I had to be extremely crafty with my tactic in bringing them down. They, on the other hand, require no skill to use. All they do is charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything in their path. Charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything, sounds like a maddie pre 1.7. Nuff Said
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 665	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:45:00 - [294] - Quote Harpyja wrote: There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to bring a rail tank in CQC and be an iWin button against everything. Gunnlogi rail tanks can only be brought down by another Gunnlogi rail tank, and that is OP. I have been able to bring down only a few with my missile Gunnlogi because I had to be extremely crafty with my tactic in bringing them down. They, on the other hand, require no skill to use. All they do is charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything in their path. Two things that are inaccurate or incomplete in your statements: 1. rail tanks arent very good at "Close Quarters Combat",as you claim. Their turret rotation speed makes it very difficult to hit something in motion closer than 20 meters, unless the thing you're aiming at is another tank. 2. They mow down everything in their path... their path being in front of them. They are particularly vulnerable from behind. A blaster tank with stacked damage mods, attacking from behind, should in theory, have a good chance of dealing with a gunlogi, even with hardeners. Because of two reasons: 2.1: If they're running multiple hardeners, they arent using those slots for shields 2.2 If they're NOT stacking hardeners... they're gonna hit cooldown at some point. A blaster tank with damage mods can take out a base gunlogi VERY fast, if it lands all its shots: ie: too close to miss :D Only way to avoid that, is for the rail tank to stay out of CQC
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2183	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:40:00 - [295] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. I knew it Judge doesnt want railguns nerfed (not yet) he just wants them out of the game completely so he can rule the skies in complete safety Intelligence is OP
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2120	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:46:00 - [296] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. I knew it Judge doesnt want railguns nerfed (not yet) he just wants them out of the game completely so he can rule the skies in complete safety I wouldn't call 3000 armor damage a shot from a Breach complete safety. Missiles are also useful if ships fly too low. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2183	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:50:00 - [297] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. I knew it Judge doesnt want railguns nerfed (not yet) he just wants them out of the game completely so he can rule the skies in complete safety I wouldn't call 3000 armor damage a shot from a Breach complete safety. Missiles are also useful if ships fly too low. How many run breach? Missiles are iffy, spread and missiles travel time too and if they all dont hit they can escape and it has to be basically hovering unless you are good at hitting a moving target with missiles provided the missiles dont time out 1st Intelligence is OP
Cooper Eudaemon DUST University Ivy League 42	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:12:00 - [298] - Quote Figured I'd throw my two cents in. What if Large railguns functioned like forge guns? They're massive weapons, they use a tremendous amount of power relative to their smaller cousins. It's not a stretch to require them to fully charge before every shot--and to have them get glowy and noisy. Death is a learning experience. I just wish I wasn't such a slow learner. >.<
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 399	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:30:00 - [299] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Read the OP Charlotte. Its the redline. I lose dropships to players not even in the battle. thats the issue. The range and elevation and damage make it worse but as we keep saying in this thread again and again... Redline. WHile these tanks are here in the redline a very unfair mechanic exists. If they are not fixed or removed temporarily then I will continue to lose ISK to a player who is taking no risk. It is not fair gameplay. A fix is complicated so here is a stopgap : If any player or vehicle is killed from within the redline by a railgun tank they die but do NOT lose their suit or vehicle. I actually like that a lot. They may disrupt the flow of combat from within the redline, but at least you won't be losing anything by it. Really the terrain needs to be addressed, but that is a major change. This is small and will get us by in the meantime. Nuff Said
BAD FURRY Oh No You Didn't 253	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:36:00 - [300] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. OMG!!! the But hurt is strong with this one !!! no rely get over it and stop crying standing in the open for them to kill you so you can cry about it here. get better skills and you wont die so much to them . Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9983	Posted - 2014.01.14 20:10:00 - [301] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. OMG!!! the But hurt is strong with this one !!! no rely get over it and stop crying standing in the open for them to kill you so you can cry about it here. get better skills and you wont die so much to them . The person who has literally liberally abused every completely broken aspect of this game, telling people to get better skills. Ahh. It's like pay per view. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
Anoko Destrolock Crimson Saints 31	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:29:00 - [302] - Quote IMO the problems with rails are only partially due to the railgun My suggestions: Limit Railgun range to 300-350m Change missile range to 200m, since they arent viable at their current max range because they are inaccurate Limit tanks to 1 dmg mod nerf dmg mods to 15-20% Damage mods and redline immunity are the biggest issues. People dont talk about dmg mods being OP but that is a huge part of the problem. +57% dmg is a lot for a mlt tank... people are stacking dmg mods on a cheap tank for 2 shot kills When you do the math, dmg mods are just stupid and broken. Personally, id like to see them removed from both tanks and infantry. Because they amplify imbalances as much as dmg MLT rail with 1 dmg mod: 1885 dmg 16k isk MLT rail with 2 dmg mods 2276 dmg 20k isk Proto rail 1885 dmg 242k isk Proto rail, 3 dmg mods 3300 dmg, 254k isk
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2135	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:52:00 - [303] - Quote Anoko Destrolock wrote: IMO the problems with rails are only partially due to the railgun My suggestions: Limit Railgun range to 300-350m Change missile range to 200m, since they arent viable at their current max range because they are inaccurate Limit tanks to 1 dmg mod nerf dmg mods to 15-20% Damage mods and redline immunity are the biggest issues. People dont talk about dmg mods being OP but that is a huge part of the problem. +57% dmg is a lot for a mlt tank... people are stacking dmg mods on a cheap tank for 2 shot kills When you do the math, dmg mods are just stupid and broken. Personally, id like to see them removed from both tanks and infantry. Because they amplify imbalances as much as dmg MLT rail with 1 dmg mod: 1885 dmg 16k isk MLT rail with 2 dmg mods 2276 dmg 20k isk Proto rail 1885 dmg 242k isk Proto rail, 3 dmg mods 3300 dmg, 254k isk It's +63% for two because the effect is exponential (the second/third amp adds a smaller percentage but it adds it to the bonus damage of the amps before it as well, effectively). 3 are 92% for the same reason. Glass cannon proto rails hit for around 3900 damage to shields/3200 damage to armor. Glass cannon Sicas hit for ~2600 shield damage and over ~2100 armor damage. 2HKO and 3HKO with glass cannon Sicas to shield/armor tanks. Glass cannon Particle Cannon Gunnlogi can 2HKO unhardened, unplated armor and, IIRC, 3HKO the RDV. Really, their RoF is too high/overheat is too slow for the damage. The redline is the biggest problem, though and is one of the only things that ticks me off in TvT beyond their pure DPS. Booster/Hardener/Amplifier with a Cannon is extremely annoying to kill. 2/3HKO like glass cannon Sicas but the Booster + Hardener makes it very hard to alpha before it gets away. Shields drop, booster + hardener goes up, next shot hits, tank disappears behind a mountain. Glass cannon rails can OHKO unextended shield dropships. Not sure about extended, but 3900 shield damage isn't easy to tank with any set and are perfectly safe in the redline. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3474	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:56:00 - [304] - Quote Anoko Destrolock wrote: When you do the math, dmg mods are just stupid and broken. Personally, id like to see them removed from both tanks and infantry. Because they amplify imbalances as much as dmg And I guarantee that you will kill literally every Niche & AV weapon in this entire game, along with guaranteeing that nobody will ever be able to use anything other than a rifle to remain viable and/or competitive. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10072	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:06:00 - [305] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Anoko Destrolock wrote: IMO the problems with rails are only partially due to the railgun My suggestions: Limit Railgun range to 300-350m Change missile range to 200m, since they arent viable at their current max range because they are inaccurate Limit tanks to 1 dmg mod nerf dmg mods to 15-20% Damage mods and redline immunity are the biggest issues. People dont talk about dmg mods being OP but that is a huge part of the problem. +57% dmg is a lot for a mlt tank... people are stacking dmg mods on a cheap tank for 2 shot kills When you do the math, dmg mods are just stupid and broken. Personally, id like to see them removed from both tanks and infantry. Because they amplify imbalances as much as dmg MLT rail with 1 dmg mod: 1885 dmg 16k isk MLT rail with 2 dmg mods 2276 dmg 20k isk Proto rail 1885 dmg 242k isk Proto rail, 3 dmg mods 3300 dmg, 254k isk It's +63% for two because the effect is exponential (the second/third amp adds a smaller percentage but it adds it to the bonus damage of the amps before it as well, effectively). 3 are 92% for the same reason. Glass cannon proto rails hit for around 3900 damage to shields/3200 damage to armor. Glass cannon Sicas hit for ~2600 shield damage and over ~2100 armor damage. 2HKO and 3HKO with glass cannon Sicas to shield/armor tanks. Glass cannon Particle Cannon Gunnlogi can 2HKO unhardened, unplated armor and, IIRC, 3HKO the RDV. Really, their RoF is too high/overheat is too slow for the damage. The redline is the biggest problem, though and is one of the only things that ticks me off in TvT beyond their pure DPS. Booster/Hardener/Amplifier with a Cannon is extremely annoying to kill. 2/3HKO like glass cannon Sicas but the Booster + Hardener makes it very hard to alpha before it gets away. Shields drop, booster + hardener goes up, next shot hits, tank disappears behind a mountain. Glass cannon rails can OHKO unextended shield dropships. Not sure about extended, but 3900 shield damage isn't easy to tank with any set and are perfectly safe in the redline. And thanks to the redline, there is virtually no downside to running glass cannon fits. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1883	Posted - 2014.01.16 21:29:00 - [306] - Quote What would DS pilots think about a built in 30% resistance to railguns? Tanks and LAV's should be getting wrecked by rails, but DS's shouldn't. A built in resistance solves this problem without rendering the railgun useless. Right now, the only way to kill redline tanks is by the use of mod'd rails. So about those vehicle locks...
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 589	Posted - 2014.01.16 21:48:00 - [307] - Quote i see it as a good thing when that enemy ds droping enemy troops all over my teams objective goes down. as for taking out the dropship at max ceiling height? the only way i see that happening is if the rail gun drove and parked on the side of a hill or any inclined plane. like a ramp. or the dropship was extremely far away from the tank i dont see it going down high up in the middile of the map.. the turret itself is extremely slow to rotate. its actually faster to just turn the whole entire tank instead. plus dmg mods only increase the guns damage by 30%. hardeners increase the resistance by 40%. so if i were to attack a tank with 2 hardeners active at the same time id have a rather hard time hitting through it with my glass cannon. and if it had 3 active at the same time?. thats a 120% resistance. the most i can get is a 60% increase. and the most possible for a gunlogi is a 90% increase in attack power. as for being unable to fly dropships around the map? i still dont have much trouble when flying my mlt viper dropship around. or my gorgon. but i also dont bring one out every match.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1238	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:18:00 - [308] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I knew it Judge doesnt want railguns nerfed (not yet) he just wants them out of the game completely so he can rule the skies in complete safety I explained this to you the other day. Please stop telling deliberate lies It is getting really tiresome. I mean really. Shall I link you those post again? Why do you keep misrepresenting me AFTER i have CLEARLY explain myself to you several times. I guess ill have to link you AGAIN to those posts. Please read them this time. Read it this time and stop misrepresenting me after I keep explaining things to you. You may value telling lies but I do not. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 282	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:21:00 - [309] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. No. You must understand than Rail turret is a AV turret meant to be almost useless against infantry (And actually it is.). But absolutely "master" against vehicules (HAV/LAV). When blaster is destroying 20 ennemies in less than 30sec no one complains because it's as intended. So why complaining when an AV turret destroy vehicules ? (As intended). Blaster even destroy vehicules pretty easy. So...... Ok that's pretty unfair than it can look up so easily and shoot dropships. The only nerf that would be "useful" is to reduce elevation of the turret. Rail already have lot of drawbacks. Low RoF. You fail one/two shots you're DEAD. Really low rotation speed. slow reload. etcetc.... Dropship are transports you think it's supposed to resist from a "artillery" cannon mounted on a Battle Tank ?
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1883	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:23:00 - [310] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. No. You must understand than Rail turret is a AV turret meant to be almost useless against infantry (And actually it is.). But absolutely "master" against vehicules (HAV/LAV). When blaster is destroying 20 ennemies in less than 30sec no one complains because it's as intended. So why complaining when an AV turret destroy vehicules ? (As intended). Blaster even destroy vehicules pretty easy. So...... Ok that's pretty unfair than it can look up so easily and shoot dropships. The only nerf that would be "useful" is to reduce elevation of the turret. Rail already have lot of drawbacks. Low RoF. You fail one/two shots you're DEAD. Really low rotation speed. slow reload. etcetc.... Dropship are transports you think it's supposed to resist from a "artillery" cannon mounted on a Battle Tank ? read my post So about those vehicle locks...

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1238	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:24:00 - [311] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Dropship are transports you think it's supposed to resist from a "artillery" cannon mounted on a Battle Tank ? For rail supporters here is something to consider. This still is from my upcoming redline/rail video. Blue skull is where i died. Yellow dot is where The tank was (i have the evidence to prove it). Kill card. Fair and in need of no adjustment? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 17	Posted - 2014.01.18 19:59:00 - [312] - Quote I think that glass cannons, brawlers, whatever are fine... if they had a counter that was better than the nerfed AV fits. I propose: implementing droppable/placeable turrets (OMS) style that would allow infantry to call down some needed firepower when they are getting hit hard by armor. Basically, you've have an immobile vehicle hull type thing, with the following costs, and hardpoints: each turret would attempt to autotarget reds if unmanned. Militia Small Drop-pod Turret: 1 small turret: 2,000isk Militia Large Drop-pod Turret: 4 small turret: 12,000isk adv Small Drop-pod Turret: 2 small turrets: 4,500isk adv Large Drop-pod Turret: 3 small/1 large turrets: 40,000isk pro Small Drop-pod Turret: 3 small turrets: 32,000isk pro Large Drop-pod Turret: 3 small/2 large turrets: 97,000isk Or... you know... something like that tl;dr If infantry could call automatic turrets at reasonable prices, it would help offset the AV nerf and the 'gang of tanks' effect. Boost your squad's points by 40%, learn to use the Squad Wheel! I provide training: 1M isk: 90 Minutes of Basic Command
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 306	Posted - 2014.01.18 20:12:00 - [313] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Dropship are transports you think it's supposed to resist from a "artillery" cannon mounted on a Battle Tank ? For rail supporters here is something to consider. This still is from my upcoming redline/rail video. Blue skull is where i died. Yellow dot is where The tank was (i have the evidence to prove it). Kill card. Fair and in need of no adjustment? Fair. I don't especially defend it i don't use tanks. It's an AV weapons on an Tank. You're an transport aerial vehicule. Seems Logic. At least it don't instant explode it let you the time to jump from it. Maybe change the dropships to be cheaper. Transports vehicules should be cheap. And Assautlt Dropship should have some AV weapons (with some reduced damage). (Swarms/Forge). AND their current turret against infantry..
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1273	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:27:00 - [314] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Fair and in need of no adjustment? Fair. There would be words here but I seem to have lost them. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3668	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:35:00 - [315] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Fair. I don't especially defend it i don't use tanks. It's an AV weapons on an Tank. You're an transport aerial vehicle. Seems Logic. At least it don't instant explode it let you the time to jump from it. Maybe change the dropships to be cheaper. Transports vehicles should be cheap. And Assault Dropship should have some AV weapons (with some reduced damage). (Swarms/Forge). AND their current turret against infantry.. I don't care what a weapon/item is used for. If you can vaporize your target without him possibly being able to react, then it is broken. Why would I care about having the chance to jump out before it explodes? If I'm piloting, then I'm mostly likely in a Starter Fit or another BPO. While having dropships become cheaper is good, nobody wants to pay ISK just to get shot out the sky 3 seconds later. Regardless of how low the cost is. Assault Dropships already have an AV weapon. It's called the 20GJ Railgun. So you believe that a weapon with 600m range should be able to deal 2-4k HP of damage per volley, while having an incredibly fast ROF, and not sacrificing anything towards the risk/reward aspect? Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2173	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:35:00 - [316] - Quote Yesterday, I destroyed a Python in one shot from 500m. All Pythons except those with a Complex Heavy Shield Extender die in one shot to a glass cannon, with no warning. They're just flying along and bam, dead. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 64	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:43:00 - [317] - Quote Yea, that's why learning to ADS is loco hombre! FAME
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 91	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:02:00 - [318] - Quote In my opinion it just silly that any of the tanks other than the missile tank is able to even shoot at flying craft. Since when can tanks shoot down airplanes unless they are dedicated anti-aircraft tanks? All I know is that when the game started tanks were very limited as to how upwards they could aim the main turret and then they all complained until CCP changed it even though CCP stated that it was that way by design. I am getting sick of CCP breaking the design of the game to cater to squeaky wheels. Luckily they tend to correct back where things should be eventually but it is getting old playing through each thing as it becomes OP and then is nerfed. Closed Beta Veteran
Cedric Reeg Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:35:00 - [319] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: finally someone sees why i don't run my dropship all the time like a want to. i'll be having a good time and the enemy will call in 3 little sicas that i can't do nothing about and end me. 3? Last time i checked in a dom game the enemy had 4 sicas and around 2-3 maddies killing infantry. We couldnt deploy Anything at all and even getting out of the red line was almost impossible. You had to run past rail tanks and Snipers, To then evade the Blaster Maddies/somas To the FIGHT infantry to then attempt a suicide hack on the objective Man , what a crappy game that was.... And some would call you coward for being in your redline and not just feeding them kills and WPs. Redline is so op...
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4348	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:07:00 - [320] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I knew it Judge doesnt want railguns nerfed (not yet) he just wants them out of the game completely so he can rule the skies in complete safety I explained this to you the other day. Please stop telling deliberate lies It is getting really tiresome. I mean really. Shall I link you those post again? Why do you keep misrepresenting me AFTER i have CLEARLY explained myself to you several times. I guess ill have to link you AGAIN to those posts. Please read them this time. Read it this time and stop misrepresenting me after I keep explaining things to you. You may value telling lies but I do not. I shall make small and marked adjustments to the OP so as to clarify my meaning. give it up judge, takahiro's trademark tactic is to deliberately misinterpret things and rage about it, for those who don't believe me i present this thread as proof, in case his posts weren't enough already https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101411&find=unread Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's

ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 1912	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:12:00 - [321] - Quote Honestly, The only thing stopping ADS ships from going 30-0 are Rail Gun Tanks. If Rail Tanks get a re-balance the forge guns and swarms need a buff Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
emm kay Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 52	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:20:00 - [322] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos. if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed. missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :) blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well. railgun has no downside. railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. Or, make it so tanks overheat on rails Or, make the chargeup more like a forge gun (you move 50% normal speed, have to let go of firing button to fire, maybe higher damage and 1 bullet / clip) -- You called, sir?
Roofer Madness Tickle My Null-Sac 756	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:27:00 - [323] - Quote I completely agree Judge. On every aspect. I almost made my own rage thread over this BS this morning but yours is much nicer!!! So I'll just BUMP. Please read this CCP and do something about red line rail turrets. I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 658	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:18:00 - [324] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Honestly, The only thing stopping ADS ships from going 30-0 are Rail Gun Tanks. If Rail Tanks get a re-balance the forge guns and swarms need a buff Forge guns as well, wiki breach can one shot my dropship....
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1286	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:31:00 - [325] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Honestly, The only thing stopping ADS ships from going 30-0 are Rail Gun Tanks. There is nor evidence to support this statement. In fact when I see ADS in games with no rails they do not do 30-0. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 844	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:36:00 - [326] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Honestly, The only thing stopping ADS ships from going 30-0 are Rail Gun Tanks. There is nor evidence to support this statement. In fact when I see ADS in games with no rails they do not do 30-0. i do just today i went 42-2 WITH enemy rails....
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 658	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:37:00 - [327] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Yesterday, I destroyed a Python in one shot from 500m. All Pythons except those with a Complex Heavy Shield Extender die in one shot to a glass cannon, with no warning. They're just flying along and bam, dead. A Complex Heavy Shield Extender Python would survive with, according to my calculations, a whopping 100 armor. I don't think a python can even fit that even with the fitting skill. I'll hop on and give it a try though, it will probably be the only thing I can fit.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 62	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:37:00 - [328] - Quote This thread is still going? The assault dropship is the equivalent of a transport helicopter in other games such as battlefield. They too go down like sacks of sheet. The ADS is NOT a gunship, which would still be easy pickings, and it is certainly not a jet fighter. Try tanking your dropships and you will be able to take some shots from an enemy railgun installation or enemy rail tank. I have put advanced and proto rail rounds into some enemy dropships before that have withstood 3 - 4 shots and got away. How the hell does a little flying tin can withstand 3-4 or more shots of a rail gun that is an anti tank weapon? Tanks have thick armour. Dropships are thin tin cans yet some of them seem to survive. However I can get behind you on the redline issue, which is seperate to other things.
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 55	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:41:00 - [329] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested. They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken. I have even been killed at the maximum flight ceiling. Exactly what is a flying vehicles advantage if a tank can kill it anywhere in the entire sky? They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have. I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that powerful work within the limits of fair balance, I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 238 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky. At 238 meters my dropship is useless. I have to sit, in complete exposure evey single game to these distant, redline tanks. I can't use skill or tactics to avoid them. They see me all the time from complete safety. The tank can cover any area a dropship can operate in from a single spot up to 540m away (proven tested distance) So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance. CCP, you need to speak to us pilots about this. Not part-timers; but us full on dropship guys. Please engage us. In private, behind NDAs or whatever you feel is best but we really need to talk with you. This stuff needs fixing. ASAP. No. You must understand than Rail turret is a AV turret meant to be almost useless against infantry (And actually it is.). But absolutely "master" against vehicules (HAV/LAV). When blaster is destroying 20 ennemies in less than 30sec no one complains because it's as intended. So why complaining when an AV turret destroy vehicules ? (As intended). Blaster even destroy vehicules pretty easy. So...... Ok that's pretty unfair than it can look up so easily and shoot dropships. The only nerf that would be "useful" is to reduce elevation of the turret. Rail already have lot of drawbacks. Low RoF. You fail one/two shots you're DEAD. Really low rotation speed. slow reload. etcetc.... Dropship are transports you think it's supposed to resist from a "artillery" cannon mounted on a Battle Tank ? the issue is not the tank it's the redline they use as a shield. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
steelRatt L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 3	Posted - 2014.01.19 22:13:00 - [330] - Quote Iv dabbled in flying since closed beta. But only lately made the choice it's what I have fun with and the direction I now want to go. Railguns are making that hard and costly. I'm trying to stick at it tho I feel for new players to dust wanting to get in to a DS I'm sure most would quit and roll tanks the way things are at. Defeat dose not exist to them that are willing.

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1286	Posted - 2014.01.19 22:13:00 - [331] - Quote Food for thought......Border Gulch. The red zone is the airspace above 40 meters and up to 382 meters that a rail tank parked at the yellow dot can hit. All maps are like this. There is a tiny bit of cover at best and when actually doing a dropships job there is effectively none. Range from the redline? This is a death at 624 meters from a tank 130 metres into the redline. How about elevation? Fine is it? Look at the green. At 566 meters away you can hit a dropship 200meters into the air. What does the world look like to us at 200 m? This. Or in words a tiny spec below that we can not even attempt to interfere with. EDIT : This is enemy muzzle flash from 100m up. This is why we operate at or below 100m. What do we look to a tank at 461 meters? Big and easy to hit. Before you condemn Dropships or their pilots you need to ensure you really grasp the issues they face. Rails need a balance pass. There are good reasons why. Many base our opinions on the matter on solid and careful analysis. We are not just making stuff up. You have been Judged Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2175	Posted - 2014.01.19 23:48:00 - [332] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Yesterday, I destroyed a Python in one shot from 500m. All Pythons except those with a Complex Heavy Shield Extender die in one shot to a glass cannon, with no warning. They're just flying along and bam, dead. A Complex Heavy Shield Extender Python would survive with, according to my calculations, a whopping 100 armor. I don't think a python can even fit that even with the fitting skill. I'll hop on and give it a try though, it will probably be the only thing I can fit. I'm pretty sure you can fit a complex and a proto turret and nothing else. Maybe with full optimization a single STD shield module. Either way, no one runs it, so Pythons are almost always OHKOs. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2175	Posted - 2014.01.19 23:53:00 - [333] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Food for thought......Border Gulch. The red zone is the airspace above 40 meters and up to 382 meters that a rail tank parked at the yellow dot can hit. All maps are like this. There is a tiny bit of cover at best and when actually doing a dropships job there is effectively none. Range from the redline? This is a death at 624 meters from a tank 130 metres into the redline. How about elevation? Fine is it? Look at the green. At 566 meters away you can hit a dropship 200meters into the air. What does the world look like to us at 200 m? This. Or in words a tiny spec below that we can not even attempt to interfere with. This is enemy muzzle flash from 100m up. This is why we operate at or below 100m. What do we look to a tank at 461 meters? Big and easy to hit. Before you condemn Dropships or their pilots you need to ensure you really grasp the issues they face. Rails need a balance pass. There are good reasons why. Many base our opinions on the matter on solid and careful analysis. We are not just making stuff up. You have been Judged Good post, Judge. At such a distance, leading the target is required. However, when you kill in one to two shots, it doesn't really matter. Redline tanks can also sit there going through multiple mags if need be until you die. IMO, all damage going into and out of the redline should be halved and dropships, especially Pythons, should receive a natural resistance to rail damage; enough that an extended Python won't get killed in one shot, at least. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Yeeeuuuupppp KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 33	Posted - 2014.01.20 00:32:00 - [334] - Quote Sadly, I retired my ADS character until they do something about this. I'm not gonna lose a Python each match cause of an mlt rail. Tell me when they fix this in game so I can begin flying again. Carving Hearts in People's Backs, One Day At A Time ~ Nova Knives
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 431	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:25:00 - [335] - Quote Been flying my ADS and loving it. No, I don't actually spend much time providing any real support. Most of my time is spent, spinning, diving, n gliding around, frantically dodging rail shots. Then that bastard in the redline drops me in one shot, running double or triple damage mods. Hell I know I have shot them down before in one shot with a single damage mod and proto turret (shield version that is). I thought the point of the whole revamp, was to make dropships more resilient, along with tanks. Instead, what we have are paperthin ADS with awesome power, that rarely gets used simply because you spend most of your time avoiding AV, namely tanks. Then you got the regular version, which did get a resilience bump, in the way of the extra slots. Yet that is essential, considering they now fly like bricks. Cool, so I run double hardeners and still get shot down, simply because my dropship has less agility than a tank. And why would you want to fly one of these anyways, in a competitive environment they are essentially useless. I only fly the shield versions, just as I drive shield tanks, Lavs, and run a Caldari suit (kinda just stick with my race for SP). All in all though, ADS are in a better place, simply because of the raw power. But the issue with resiliency, that has always been the issue, has not been addressed. Price is still too high on them for something that can get one shot by a milita rail. I know ADS was kinda slapped together last minute, yet even the STD dropship is nearly useless. STD dropships don't need to be that slow. Currently the only thing making an impact on the field are tanks, and namely rail tanks. I run proto tanks myself, and I know very well the devastation they cause to dropships (or any vehicle). My Gunnlogi alone, withstood 4 milita tanks, 2 blasters, 2 rails, long enough to drop the 2 rails. My next tank dominates the field (ambush) and imagine this, we win. Suddenly a losing battle, turns into a winning one once I remove tanks from the field. This happens all the time, and ambush is the worst about it. But the thing is, most of the tanks I see, are basic, or milita. These aren't pro's shooting down pro's. These are scrubs, with hardly any investment into their tank, or their tank tree. Yeah, I've seen some fancy flying, people that I couldn't get a shot on. But if you plan on shooting anything below, you gotta slow down, then you are dead. Basically, the way I see it, a dropships only job on the battlefield is to ferry troops, and fly erratically the rest of the time. Or recall. Fix dropships already. Make them a presence that in the right hands, can change the flow of battle, much like tanks and infantry do now. Nuff Said
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 300	Posted - 2014.01.25 11:52:00 - [336] - Quote Proto rail with 2 damage mods packs about 2700 damage per shot, any tank is down in 2 shots(no hardner on) and because the RoF is so ridiculous the tanker doesnt have time to activate the hardner. NERF THE DAMN RAIL AND GET THEM OUT OF THE REDLINE!!! WELCOME TO WORLDofTANKz514 put your seatbelts on, ITs GONNA BE A BUMPY RIDE!! and please SUCK ON MY BIG BLACK BLASTER!
a brackers Nex Miles Militis 0	Posted - 2014.01.25 14:30:00 - [337] - Quote My thoughts: 1; the red line should become a red line to friendlies after 1 min per life or something. This would kick them out of the red line. 2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's, but make them be pushed a long way. This would be accurate to the laws of momentum. For this I think dropship's should get an automatic 70% resistance for gal (they're heavier) and 75% for caldari. Lav's should also get lower hp and a 20-30% rail gun resistance, however they should be pushed a bit and have a possibility of being flipped. However in order to encourage skill in rail guns, I think all vehicles should have a small area where there is some massive affect from being hit. E.g. On the underside of a caldari dropship there is a beam with radio active warning lables on it. I think a hit to this should cause either a 5-10 sec loss to all engine and gun power, or a 10-20 sec period where you couldn't activate any active modules and passive modules stopped working. A similar thing could be done with the box on the back of caldari hav's. Just my suggestions and btw I am a proto dropship pilot.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 808	Posted - 2014.01.25 14:56:00 - [338] - Quote a brackers wrote: 2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's, Interesting point! however, speaking of points... the type of tip on the projectile will make a huge amount of difference to this. Also, inertia. So, SHIELD dropships, might have a massive effective resistance to it, albeit atthe cost of being knocked around the sky. But armor based dropships? Not so much, if at all.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1346	Posted - 2014.01.25 15:03:00 - [339] - Quote If you want to see the rail tanks range and elevation so you can see that damage is not the only vairable that needs some looking at. on a chart, Its to scale. Redline to Redline is 600m and its based on spine crecent. I worked out the tanks elevation to be 45 degrees or near enough. That's at ground level mind you. Its far far worse when you add a hill The forge gunner is at the middle objective, Alpha that is on the bridge. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
a brackers Nex Miles Militis 1	Posted - 2014.01.25 15:20:00 - [340] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: a brackers wrote: 2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's, Interesting point! however, speaking of points... the type of tip on the projectile will make a huge amount of difference to this. Also, inertia. So, SHIELD dropships, might have a massive effective resistance to it, albeit atthe cost of being knocked around the sky. But armor based dropships? Not so much, if at all. Good point, I fly both and gal isn't knocked about anywhere near as much as caldari, and caldari take more damage from railguns. However, looking down the barrel of a railgun tank, the barrel is at max 2" diameter. This is an impact weapon with no explosives in it so with the 7000m/s entry speed there is going to be very little fragmenting inside the dropship. This means a 2" hole right through the dropship which means very little chance of hitting a critical component which doesn't have at least one backup. This means there should be lots of very small areas where the railguns will do massive damage, but most shots should pass straight through with little or no damage. Just shooting me full of holes but not hitting anything critical Proto dropship pilot

Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 450	Posted - 2014.01.25 18:06:00 - [341] - Quote a brackers wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: a brackers wrote: 2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's, Interesting point! however, speaking of points... the type of tip on the projectile will make a huge amount of difference to this. Also, inertia. So, SHIELD dropships, might have a massive effective resistance to it, albeit atthe cost of being knocked around the sky. But armor based dropships? Not so much, if at all. Good point, I fly both and gal isn't knocked about anywhere near as much as caldari, and caldari take more damage from railguns. However, looking down the barrel of a railgun tank, the barrel is at max 2" diameter. This is an impact weapon with no explosives in it so with the 7000m/s entry speed there is going to be very little fragmenting inside the dropship. This means a 2" hole right through the dropship which means very little chance of hitting a critical component which doesn't have at least one backup. This means there should be lots of very small areas where the railguns will do massive damage, but most shots should pass straight through with little or no damage. Just shooting me full of holes but not hitting anything critical This sounds very very interesting! Nuff Said
Alex Kaidou Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2014.01.30 13:07:00 - [342] - Quote dude your making a good point there ive lost way to much of my incubus to that bs and when will tit even annoy people that you can hit something at 5 mph and still lose it ! and the proto forge guns are enough to deal with let alone things hitting you from the redline but also you guys should change with the effectiveness of things honestly if my dropship cost atleast 400k why should die just like any other milita LAV i depo , that's just wrong and it should be messed with and i also believe part time pilots should be involed!! (like this one .. i love the ADS but it dies way to quickly) and btw why did you guys remove the only good bonuses the vehicles have -2% damage per level , atleast make it for dropships only since they die quickly
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 855	Posted - 2014.01.30 14:56:00 - [343] - Quote Alex Kaidou wrote: dude your making a good point there ive lost way to much of my incubus to that bs and when will tit even annoy people that you can hit something at 5 mph and still lose it ! and the proto forge guns are enough to deal with let alone things hitting you from the redline but also you guys should change with the effectiveness of things honestly if my dropship cost atleast 400k why should die just like any other milita LAV i depo , that's just wrong and it should be messed with and i also believe part time pilots should be involed!! (like this one .. i love the ADS but it dies way to quickly) and btw why did you guys remove the only good bonuses the vehicles have -2% damage per level , atleast make it for dropships only since they die quickly Some people die in ADS really quickly. Some people seem to live forever. Therefore, i conclude that the problem isnt intrinsic in the ADS, but rather that it requires certain playstyles+fittings to be durable. You do have a point about the cost though. IMO, the fix is not "make the ADS even more impossible to kill", but simply to lower the cost.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz 675	Posted - 2014.03.22 15:46:00 - [344] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Harpyja wrote: There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to bring a rail tank in CQC and be an iWin button against everything. Gunnlogi rail tanks can only be brought down by another Gunnlogi rail tank, and that is OP. I have been able to bring down only a few with my missile Gunnlogi because I had to be extremely crafty with my tactic in bringing them down. They, on the other hand, require no skill to use. All they do is charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything in their path. Two things that are inaccurate or incomplete in your statements: 1. rail tanks arent very good at "Close Quarters Combat",as you claim. Their turret rotation speed makes it very difficult to hit something in motion closer than 20 meters, unless the thing you're aiming at is another tank. 2. They mow down everything in their path... their path being in front of them. They are particularly vulnerable from behind. A blaster tank with stacked damage mods, attacking from behind, should in theory, have a good chance of dealing with a gunlogi, even with hardeners. Because of two reasons: 2.1: If they're running multiple hardeners, they arent using those slots for shields 2.2 If they're NOT stacking hardeners... they're gonna hit cooldown at some point. A blaster tank with damage mods can take out a base gunlogi VERY fast, if it lands all its shots: ie: too close to miss :D Only way to avoid that, is for the rail tank to stay out of CQC Actually, a blaster can easily kill a gunnlogi. That is if they are not running hardeners. So when I turn my double hardeners on, I calmly turn, and shoot. Boom dead maddie. Piece of cake. And rails in CQC, on a gunnlogi, is amazing. Why, because turning your turret and TURNING at the same time negates the slow turn speed of the turret. Duh Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 3100	Posted - 2014.03.22 16:07:00 - [345] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: dude your making a good point there ive lost way to much of my incubus to that bs and when will tit even annoy people that you can hit something at 5 mph and still lose it ! and the proto forge guns are enough to deal with let alone things hitting you from the redline but also you guys should change with the effectiveness of things honestly if my dropship cost atleast 400k why should die just like any other milita LAV i depo , that's just wrong and it should be messed with and i also believe part time pilots should be involed!! (like this one .. i love the ADS but it dies way to quickly) and btw why did you guys remove the only good bonuses the vehicles have -2% damage per level , atleast make it for dropships only since they die quickly Some people die in ADS really quickly. Some people seem to live forever. Therefore, i conclude that the problem isnt intrinsic in the ADS, but rather that it requires certain playstyles+fittings to be durable. You do have a point about the cost though. IMO, the fix is not "make the ADS even more impossible to kill", but simply to lower the cost. You can live if you never slow down and try to be useful, but it's not very fulfilling. I lost two Incubi on line harvest in one match to a redline rail parked in the hills. I couldn't get to him, and he had view of the entire map above 20m. I could fly around and stay alive, but at the expense being useless.
Archer Yorcot S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 10	Posted - 2014.03.22 16:13:00 - [346] - Quote 18 page thread discussing an objective, evidence based analysis of one of the largest issues plaguing Dust....and not a single blue tag in sight. This forum signature is OP.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 338	Posted - 2014.03.22 16:36:00 - [347] - Quote Solution would be to drop rail tanks range significantly and make the tiers or rails stand out more. There isnt enough of a difference between militia to proto rails as it still takes the same amount of shots to kill other things. The exception is hardened tanks of course but look at every other thing. A militia rail can three shot a proto gunnlogi the same as a proto rail will do. Drop the range and it would be a tactical heavy weapon for the tanks. This is from someone specced into rails and missiles at proto and prof levels. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.
Sev Alcatraz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 450	Posted - 2014.03.22 17:15:00 - [348] - Quote I've been running hav since precursor, now the only way to kill a derpship at the flight ceiling is to put your hav on a 45 degree perched on the side of the hill. Rail guns have pisspoor elevation and always have . HAV's with rail guns is the only thing stoping ADS spam. closed beta vet-E3 MAXIMUM ARMOR
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 780	Posted - 2014.03.22 17:24:00 - [349] - Quote Skihids wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Alex Kaidou wrote: dude your making a good point there ive lost way to much of my incubus to that bs and when will tit even annoy people that you can hit something at 5 mph and still lose it ! and the proto forge guns are enough to deal with let alone things hitting you from the redline but also you guys should change with the effectiveness of things honestly if my dropship cost atleast 400k why should die just like any other milita LAV i depo , that's just wrong and it should be messed with and i also believe part time pilots should be involed!! (like this one .. i love the ADS but it dies way to quickly) and btw why did you guys remove the only good bonuses the vehicles have -2% damage per level , atleast make it for dropships only since they die quickly Some people die in ADS really quickly. Some people seem to live forever. Therefore, i conclude that the problem isnt intrinsic in the ADS, but rather that it requires certain playstyles+fittings to be durable. You do have a point about the cost though. IMO, the fix is not "make the ADS even more impossible to kill", but simply to lower the cost. You can live if you never slow down and try to be useful, but it's not very fulfilling. I lost two Incubi on line harvest in one match to a redline rail parked in the hills. I couldn't get to him, and he had view of the entire map above 20m. I could fly around and stay alive, but at the expense being useless. In the rare event you can get to them, soon as you start hitting them they flee to the redline. It's infuriating. CCP you better nail 1.8, as it stands 1.7 is a total disaster. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 414	Posted - 2014.03.22 18:28:00 - [350] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: For now the aerial red zone could be enlarged. It would allow ADS to at least fight these cowards. Also AV could then YOLO the problem. The reason they are back there is they want to be able to engage their targets with no chance of being hurt. Take that away and they will fit more tank less gank. Buff AV. Its going to happen. Why wait? The skilled tankers will adapt and militia will be nerfed by natural selection. Drop ships could get a buff too. ^^ This . Skilled tankers will adapt ... Drop ships could get a buff too ??? How condescending . No one talks about how for too long , the FG was stronger then every Large Rail Gun turret during 1.6 . Basic and militia FG's being stronger . Tanks were weak and popped like balloons . I would like to kill some of the DPS and lessen their effective range but limiting their targeting level ( raising the turret ) is just too much . No one has a problem with ADS's and Derps just hovering tanks while they pound them with AT & XT missiles or using their own railguns . Some of these actions come from and protect that from happening to other tanks in the heat of the battle . I don't like redline rail tanks and a solution can be found but everything can't be piled into the " Tanks are broken " discussion . They could be better but they are not as bad ( being stronger and being able to compete ) as they were . What was said sounds like , " Kill their role so that mines can flourish " . I don't agree with or condone such tactics but two wrongs doesn't make it right . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You

Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 121	Posted - 2014.03.22 19:14:00 - [351] - Quote 8213 wrote: Tanks in general are broken. 100%, What about blasters? They can kill at 200m. How does a Gallente piece of technology have the range of a sniper rifle? Any thing less than 200 meteres would put blaster tanks at the mercy of missle tanks since missile tanks have 250 meter range also targets at a distance are harder to shoot with a blaster. I can't image the large blaster with the same range as small blasters. As for the large railgun maybe its clip size should be reduced to 6 instead of 9
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 339	Posted - 2014.03.22 19:26:00 - [352] - Quote Ld Collins wrote: 8213 wrote: Tanks in general are broken. 100%, What about blasters? They can kill at 200m. How does a Gallente piece of technology have the range of a sniper rifle? Any thing less than 200 meteres would put blaster tanks at the mercy of missle tanks since missile tanks have 250 meter range also targets at a distance are harder to shoot with a blaster. I can't image the large blaster with the same range as small blasters. As for the large railgun maybe its clip size should be reduced to 6 instead of 9. Reducing the clip size will not decrease damage but it will give pilots more windows of opportunity to evade and recover. All vehicle useres would benefit from it. Missile turrets hit very hard yes but this is solved by simply having 2 even perhaps one hardener...I run proto's and tanks weather the alpha from 2 volleys easily if they have hardeners up and reps take care of the rest. Tried this with xt-201's and a missile damage boost and the tank just kept shooting back and i had to disengage every time or lose the tank. Missiles for being av weapons dont hit hard enough to kill tanks if they have their hardeners up...its just ridicules :/ Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 121	Posted - 2014.03.22 19:28:00 - [353] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Ld Collins wrote: 8213 wrote: Tanks in general are broken. 100%, What about blasters? They can kill at 200m. How does a Gallente piece of technology have the range of a sniper rifle? Any thing less than 200 meteres would put blaster tanks at the mercy of missle tanks since missile tanks have 250 meter range also targets at a distance are harder to shoot with a blaster. I can't image the large blaster with the same range as small blasters. As for the large railgun maybe its clip size should be reduced to 6 instead of 9. Reducing the clip size will not decrease damage but it will give pilots more windows of opportunity to evade and recover. All vehicle useres would benefit from it. Missile turrets hit very hard yes but this is solved by simply having 2 even perhaps one hardener...I run proto's and tanks weather the alpha from 2 volleys easily if they have hardeners up and reps take care of the rest. Tried this with xt-201's and a missile damage boost and the tank just kept shooting back and i had to disengage every time or lose the tank. Missiles for being av weapons dont hit hard enough to kill tanks if they have their hardeners up...its just ridicules :/ Thats strange because anything with 3 damage mods can handle double hardeners I put 3 on an ion xt and railgun and anything I hit dies.
Sanguine 27 Nyain Chan 24	Posted - 2014.03.22 20:30:00 - [354] - Quote How about 1) a slight reduction to the Large Rail guns rate of fire, not as low as it used to be though as that was to low. 2) Don't allow the fitting of more than one damage mod on vehicles. On a side note, is it just me or do rails of all kinds not require spooling of the weapon BETWEEN shots when the trigger is held down. In earlier patches the turret rail guns required a recharge after every shot, making them work like a semi-auto weapon, not full auto weapon. Why do I have a signature, I don't even post that often
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 414	Posted - 2014.03.22 20:38:00 - [355] - Quote Sanguine 27 wrote: How about 1) a slight reduction to the Large Rail guns rate of fire, not as low as it used to be though as that was to low. 2) Don't allow the fitting of more than one damage mod on vehicles. On a side note, is it just me or do rails of all kinds not require spooling of the weapon BETWEEN shots when the trigger is held down. In earlier patches the turret rail guns required a recharge after every shot, making them work like a semi-auto weapon, not full auto weapon. True .. true . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 122	Posted - 2014.03.22 20:54:00 - [356] - Quote Sanguine 27 wrote: How about 1) a slight reduction to the Large Rail guns rate of fire, not as low as it used to be though as that was to low. 2) Don't allow the fitting of more than one damage mod on vehicles. On a side note, is it just me or do rails of all kinds not require spooling of the weapon BETWEEN shots when the trigger is held down. In earlier patches the turret rail guns required a recharge after every shot, making them work like a semi-auto weapon, not full auto weapon. If u are going to take away stacking damage mods take away stacking hardeners too
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 122	Posted - 2014.03.22 21:02:00 - [357] - Quote Sanguine 27 wrote: How about 1) a slight reduction to the Large Rail guns rate of fire, not as low as it used to be though as that was to low. 2) Don't allow the fitting of more than one damage mod on vehicles. On a side note, is it just me or do rails of all kinds not require spooling of the weapon BETWEEN shots when the trigger is held down. In earlier patches the turret rail guns required a recharge after every shot, making them work like a semi-auto weapon, not full auto weapon. If u are going to take away stacking damage mods take away stacking hardeners too
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 946	Posted - 2014.03.22 21:09:00 - [358] - Quote So we know that dropships have an innate resistance to swarms, right? swarms only do 55% damage currently, as shown in Judge's recent video. Why not make that resistance be to rails, and then make swarms to regular damage to dropships? Swarms can be a dropship counter, forge guns/railtanks can be a tanks counter. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.