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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
987
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I try not to damn certain game tactics or weapons as broken unless it is desperate. But rail gun tanks are just so completely broken it has me wondering if they were properly tested.
They have Huge alpha, Huge Hp, Huge Range, Huge elevation and they can be immune in the redline. Not just in the redline but they can shoot an objective from 300m in the redline. This is monstrously stupid. I cannot move in any map, or any game mode without a rail tank or three that are up to 300 meters into the redline 1 or 2 shotting my dropship. It is absolutely broken.
They are not in need of slight balance or tweaking but plain broken to the point that they should not be in the game with the maps that we have.
I am making a video to make my point but at this stage CCP. They need to go. Now. Until they can be made to work with current map size and until you fix the broken and unbalanced redline they have to go. SImply remove the rail turret until we can make a weapon that overpowered work within the limits of fair balance,
I only make threads like this if something is game breakingly bad. And I don't like to. But this is a special case. Did you know that at 250m from an objective, from a flat surface a rail tank can shoot a dropship 297 meters up?! Tanks rule the ground and the sky.
So here it is CCP. Take out that turret. Now. Until we can balance it. Its unfair and it breaks air/ground balance.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Jackof All-Trades
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
303
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Holy crap this is from Judge himself. Things must be serious thenGǪ
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
\
Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1104
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree. ADS harassing people? Pull out your 69,000 ISK double amped rail Sica and pop it from halfway across the map in seconds. They are broken against other tanks, too. When the enemy has 2-3 rail tanks, you can't deploy ANYTHING. Even if you do manage to deploy the one thing that kills them, another rail tank, they usually already know where it is and pop it as soon as you peak your tank out of cover for a shot.
Of course, without rails, good shield tanks would be even harder to take out.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9253
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I might not say they need to be removed all together, but I definitely get the sentiment.
Many of these maps they can roll so far back that you can't even use a dropship packed with remote explosives to kill them. They're too far back to kill with anything but a railgun and an orbital at the same time.
Try to kill them with a railgun, they recall. Try to kill them with an orbital, they roll backwards.
The fact that anyone can call in a railgun installation in the redline with two damage amps for 60k is definitely a big part of the problem.
Vids / O7
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
1160
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think Blasters are more broken tbh... |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
2358
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
cause it isn't the DS, huh?
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9253
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:cause it isn't the DS, huh? Should we double our HP and be immune to everything?
Vids / O7
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
88
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos.
if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed.
missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :)
blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well.
railgun has no downside.
railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
941
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think a huge nerf to range would help to solve all of the railgun problems. Maybe 350m at most would still keep it as a viable long range weapon without giving it the ability to control the whole battlefield from one location.
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos.
if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed.
missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :)
blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well.
railgun has no downside.
railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. I like the recoil idea. I've found it funny how I can aim at a Bolas from across the map and just hold R1 and watch it get destroyed.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9254
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well
Vids / O7
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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
1739
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well
tankers are the princesses of dust... fact.
stop the lol bans in FW.... instead make teamkillers purple!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129910&fi
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
89
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:I think a huge nerf to range would help to solve all of the railgun problems. Maybe 350m at most would still keep it as a viable long range weapon without giving it the ability to control the whole battlefield from one location. Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:railguns are fine apart from the huge damage they deal. no tank has enough HP to survie 3 or 2 shots(if its proto rail) while they have 2 damage mods running. almost 2k damage or over form a moded pro rail is ridiculos.
if you take into to account the ammount of charge's per clip plus spare ammo and re-fire rate it is ridiculos. all ralig guns would be fine if they received 400-500 less damage. this would allow basically all vehicles to survive 2-3 shots and might require a 4th to be killed.
missiles can empty thier entire clip extremly quick but have that killing reload time to compensate :)
blasters overheat quickly/run out of clip quickly as well.
railgun has no downside.
railgun should get a drawback. either decrese current damage or add heavy recoil when it shoots so it is forced to re-align befor second shot. I like the recoil idea. I've found it funny how I can aim at a Bolas from across the map and just hold R1 and watch it get destroyed.
this would also stop these would be in your face blaster railtanks. that way no matter my remaing hp at point blank i can kill the railtnak regardless if it wants to try and fight me at less than 50m. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
951
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
What will char char do? He only rail tanks.
Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9256
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence
Vids / O7
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
408
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Tankers want tanks to be the best counter to tanks, but instead of wanting dropships to be the best counter to dropships, they'd rather tanks do that as well I myself am a tanker and rails for one are OP as **** like 85% of my deaths are to them 5-10% to AV usually right after being hit by a rail and 5-10% from other tanks (Not Rails). Currently I want tanks to be the best counter to tanks but as we get more vehicles I would like some sort of aircraft to be the best counter, current dropships should be about as effective or equal but I would rather have some Heavy aircraft or light fighter fitted with ANTI-TANK missiles to be a more effective counter than another Tank.
Tanker/Assault
Can I have my ADV and PRO tanks now (Honeyed Lamb enroute).
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
2355
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
I locked down the entire map in a Domination game once with nothing but a Sica, an Ammo Extension Unit, and a MLT Damage Mod.
I racked up a total of 20 vehicle kills because they kept trying to call out DSs and LAVs.
All from 400m. Yeah that's broken.
Holy Fudgenipples!!!
MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!!
\o/
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
508
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Posted - 2013.12.21 03:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quite an unexpected post coming from Judge, but a very welcome one in my opinion. I have recently seen the amount of tanks go from 2-3 on the battlefield to at least 6-8 every match ever since this new update came out. As a veteran pilot (and many others can speak to this as well) I can attest that it isn't the update that technically "made" them broken, because they always were, except the amount of redliners was severely less than it is now, and having been in many matches with around 3 dedicated redliners on the enemy team, i can also testify to the fact that it is an absolutely game breaking mechanic due to the incredibly high amount of power, range, and rate of fire they have.
It's just simply unreasonable for the distance these things can cover, literally the entire. map. Often no matter where you are, even at height ceiling, all a railgun redline camper needs is to roll up a hill to get the tank at an angle, and bam, they can hit you from a distance of over 400 meters while you're at the max height ceiling, and destroy your pro-module dropship in two shots.
Like i said, this has always been a severe problem, but with the price of tanks and skills needed to tank being dropped, it has caused an influx of redline railgun campers like never before, and now dropship pilots (who originally thought this update would bring a good change to flying) find themselves in an even worse situation than before. CCP, I beg you to hear these arguments being made and understand that if there is going to be a balance with vehicles, railgun tanks shouldn't be able to 1-2 shot a dropship with absolute ease from any part of the map, even when at height ceiling.
I atleast thought this would have been addressed when they began to limit ranges on forge guns, but the large railgun is the strangest thing, because it seems almost nerf-proof. I can't recall one time where CCP made adjustments to the range, damage, or rate of fire on railguns, and it makes no sense to me, because i thought they would have realized this issue by now.
Well, in any case, make that video ASAP Judge, all i can say is that I'm proud you have given dropship pilots a coherent voice that CCP can notice easier. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
989
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
We do need rails. I am not for removing them forever. But the combination of range, Alpha and turret elevation combined with small maps and redline invunrability just equals broken.
Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run.
Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match.
These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across.
This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses.
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
953
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence
peg and Pearson will be here too.
Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
508
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:
Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run.
Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match.
These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across.
This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses.
Perfect analogy for the railgun vs dropship situation in my opinion. |
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1105
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:... on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
2356
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence peg and Pearson will be here too. Don't forget CharCharOdell and Tankahiro.
The LOLTank Brigade is very strong in numbers, but not so strong on the whole quality thing.
Holy Fudgenipples!!!
MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!!
\o/
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
954
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:
Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run.
Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match.
These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across.
This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses.
Perfect analogy for the railgun vs dropship situation in my opinion.
kind of long winded though.
Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
9258
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:What will char char do? He only rail tanks. I'm just waiting for Spkr to grace us with his presence peg and Pearson will be here too. Don't forget CharCharOdell and Tankahiro. The LOLTank Brigade is very strong in numbers, but not so strong on the whole quality thing. Alright, I apologize for starting this derail.
Let's stick to the quality and stop pointing fingers. Sorry about that, but let's keep this on topic because this is a pretty important topic.
This is my last post that won't have something to do with the issue at hand
Vids / O7
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
508
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:
Imagine you play as a caldari AR user. But the map you play on has no cover anywhere near any of the objectives. Infact there is only 1 wall to hide behind and it is way over at the back of the map.. The map is all completely flat open ground, not a bump or a wall anywhere. On this map are 3 enemy snipers on a hill. This hill lets them see you at all times. This hill is also deep in the redline. So deep that no-one can get to them, even with a suicide run.
Also on this map are other players in Amarr suits. You are the only Caldari player. But the snipers are not interested in the Amarr players. They are smaller and harder to see and have small walls that your caldari suit cannot hide behind. So the 3 snipers only have you to look for the entire match.
These snipers can kill you in 2 shots, From 540 meters away and you have no cover and cannot move out of range as you are always in range. The playable area of the map is only 530 meters across.
This is what it is like for dropship pilots at the moment. No cover, no warning, no chance. If you want to play you have to step into his sights. The only defence is to hope he misses.
Perfect analogy for the railgun vs dropship situation in my opinion. kind of long winded though. Yes, long winded indeed, but it gets at the core of the entire issue as to why they are horridly broken. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn
34
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bump +1.
I usually fly very low to the ground, so most times I can weave between buildings and get away. However, I have found myself looking up to Mount Kraken wondering what my team can do to the tank as my fourth DS lay smouldering.
FAME
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
1160
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tanks in general are broken. 100%,
What about blasters? They can kill at 200m. How does a Gallente piece of technology have the range of a sniper rifle? |
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
266
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
I mentioned redline rails being the next issue that people would start to notice last week. Before, it was feasible for a suicide run AV team to get into the redline and remove the vag with AV and swarms before the timer ran out. This is impossible now. Everyone uses the "REs kill tanks just fine HTFU" argument. Can't deploy them in the red. The fact is these things are uncounterable if the pilot has 1/2 a brain.
I dare anyone to say they've successfully downed one this build. You'll look as cool as the guy bragging about seducing the ******** girl who works the fryer. And if you've been downed this build, feel good that Wendy's has special programs for people like you.
Edit: the synonym for Down's syndrome is censored?
YouTube
30D Recruiting
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BobThe 844-1 CakeMan
Murder Cakes Of Doom
1317
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Posted - 2013.12.21 04:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
i said this a week a go. ppl called me crazy. O_o
Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry.
Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan
I ring for everyone. :D
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Megamix Chemist
METACOSM.
0
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Posted - 2013.12.21 05:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump +1 Range needs to be addressed, maybe the rails kinetic energy round travels so fast it gets too hot and implodes after a certain distance or sharpens down to a smaller round doing less damage, or maybe not but there should be an easy solution. |
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