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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
363
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Posted - 2014.01.06 16:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Probably been mentioned already, sorry if I repeat.
The purpose of the redline, is to give the redlined team a fighting chance. The alternative is be farmed and lose untold amounts of money.
The redlines need to tactically favor the redlined team, that is a fact. But it should only favor them up to a certain point outside the redline, say 100m to 200m.
So give them a higher elevation, further back in the redline to snipe from, while making any elevation close to the edge of the redline inaccessible. So say a rail gun has 400m range. The only viable vantage point from within the redline, is 200m back from the redline. So you can push back other tanks and vehicles, off your redline, but you don't have the advantage of controlling the map.
If you want map control, you set up outside the redline, where at the very least another tank can reach you.
This gives them a chance to break out of the redline, and also discourages camping of the redline. As the area around the redline put the opposition at a very disadvantageous position.
Couple this with a range nerf, as rails are kinda a bit OP atm.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
363
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 17:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Somebody been sploded.
Consider this: NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPEABLE OF KILLING AN ADS. Without rails, an ADS squad is harder to destroy than a tank squad.
I understand you don't like my kind, but we are the only thing standing between you guys and a nerf hammer. If we go, then you will be next. Railguns aren't the problem, redlines are. Let them look up more, I don't care. No one should get free immunity. You say 'NO OTHER WEAPON IS CAPABLE OF KILLING AN ADS While completely ignoring that ONLY RAILGUNS CAN KILL REDLINE RAILGUNS, save a well coordinated orbital, with, you guessed it, a railgun. AND, your railgun is at risk since you have to come out of your redline to hit him, while he STILL gets to be safe and sound in the redzone. Redlines are the problem, NOT railguns no, railguns AND redline is broken, reduce damage by 100, reduce fire rate slightly and 400m range or 450 to stop redliners? Exactly this. Also increase heat costs so that it overheats on the third consecutive shot. There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to bring a rail tank in CQC and be an iWin button against everything. Gunnlogi rail tanks can only be brought down by another Gunnlogi rail tank, and that is OP. I have been able to bring down only a few with my missile Gunnlogi because I had to be extremely crafty with my tactic in bringing them down. They, on the other hand, require no skill to use. All they do is charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything in their path.
Charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything, sounds like a maddie pre 1.7.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
399
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Posted - 2014.01.10 22:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Read the OP Charlotte. Its the redline. I lose dropships to players not even in the battle. thats the issue. The range and elevation and damage make it worse but as we keep saying in this thread again and again... Redline.
WHile these tanks are here in the redline a very unfair mechanic exists. If they are not fixed or removed temporarily then I will continue to lose ISK to a player who is taking no risk. It is not fair gameplay.
A fix is complicated so here is a stopgap :
If any player or vehicle is killed from within the redline by a railgun tank they die but do NOT lose their suit or vehicle.
I actually like that a lot. They may disrupt the flow of combat from within the redline, but at least you won't be losing anything by it. Really the terrain needs to be addressed, but that is a major change. This is small and will get us by in the meantime.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
431
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Posted - 2014.01.20 13:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Been flying my ADS and loving it.
No, I don't actually spend much time providing any real support. Most of my time is spent, spinning, diving, n gliding around, frantically dodging rail shots.
Then that bastard in the redline drops me in one shot, running double or triple damage mods. Hell I know I have shot them down before in one shot with a single damage mod and proto turret (shield version that is).
I thought the point of the whole revamp, was to make dropships more resilient, along with tanks. Instead, what we have are paperthin ADS with awesome power, that rarely gets used simply because you spend most of your time avoiding AV, namely tanks.
Then you got the regular version, which did get a resilience bump, in the way of the extra slots. Yet that is essential, considering they now fly like bricks. Cool, so I run double hardeners and still get shot down, simply because my dropship has less agility than a tank. And why would you want to fly one of these anyways, in a competitive environment they are essentially useless.
I only fly the shield versions, just as I drive shield tanks, Lavs, and run a Caldari suit (kinda just stick with my race for SP).
All in all though, ADS are in a better place, simply because of the raw power. But the issue with resiliency, that has always been the issue, has not been addressed. Price is still too high on them for something that can get one shot by a milita rail. I know ADS was kinda slapped together last minute, yet even the STD dropship is nearly useless.
STD dropships don't need to be that slow.
Currently the only thing making an impact on the field are tanks, and namely rail tanks. I run proto tanks myself, and I know very well the devastation they cause to dropships (or any vehicle). My Gunnlogi alone, withstood 4 milita tanks, 2 blasters, 2 rails, long enough to drop the 2 rails. My next tank dominates the field (ambush) and imagine this, we win. Suddenly a losing battle, turns into a winning one once I remove tanks from the field.
This happens all the time, and ambush is the worst about it. But the thing is, most of the tanks I see, are basic, or milita. These aren't pro's shooting down pro's. These are scrubs, with hardly any investment into their tank, or their tank tree.
Yeah, I've seen some fancy flying, people that I couldn't get a shot on. But if you plan on shooting anything below, you gotta slow down, then you are dead. Basically, the way I see it, a dropships only job on the battlefield is to ferry troops, and fly erratically the rest of the time. Or recall.
Fix dropships already. Make them a presence that in the right hands, can change the flow of battle, much like tanks and infantry do now.
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
450
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Posted - 2014.01.25 18:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
a brackers wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:a brackers wrote:
2; the very concept of a rail gun is a high speed, low mass projectile which in general only deals damage to high mass stationery objects. Therefor the best solution is to obey the laws of physics and make the projectiles do very very little damage to dropship's,
Interesting point! however, speaking of points... the type of tip on the projectile will make a huge amount of difference to this. Also, inertia. So, SHIELD dropships, might have a massive effective resistance to it, albeit atthe cost of being knocked around the sky. But armor based dropships? Not so much, if at all. Good point, I fly both and gal isn't knocked about anywhere near as much as caldari, and caldari take more damage from railguns. However, looking down the barrel of a railgun tank, the barrel is at max 2" diameter. This is an impact weapon with no explosives in it so with the 7000m/s entry speed there is going to be very little fragmenting inside the dropship. This means a 2" hole right through the dropship which means very little chance of hitting a critical component which doesn't have at least one backup. This means there should be lots of very small areas where the railguns will do massive damage, but most shots should pass straight through with little or no damage. Just shooting me full of holes but not hitting anything critical 
This sounds very very interesting!
Nuff Said
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
675
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Posted - 2014.03.22 15:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Harpyja wrote:There is absolutely no reason why you should be able to bring a rail tank in CQC and be an iWin button against everything. Gunnlogi rail tanks can only be brought down by another Gunnlogi rail tank, and that is OP. I have been able to bring down only a few with my missile Gunnlogi because I had to be extremely crafty with my tactic in bringing them down. They, on the other hand, require no skill to use. All they do is charge like a mindless brute and destroy everything in their path. Two things that are inaccurate or incomplete in your statements: 1. rail tanks arent very good at "Close Quarters Combat",as you claim. Their turret rotation speed makes it very difficult to hit something in motion closer than 20 meters, unless the thing you're aiming at is another tank. 2. They mow down everything in their path... their path being in front of them. They are particularly vulnerable from behind. A blaster tank with stacked damage mods, attacking from behind, should in theory, have a good chance of dealing with a gunlogi, even with hardeners. Because of two reasons: 2.1: If they're running multiple hardeners, they arent using those slots for shields 2.2 If they're NOT stacking hardeners... they're gonna hit cooldown at some point. A blaster tank with damage mods can take out a base gunlogi VERY fast, if it lands all its shots: ie: too close to miss :D Only way to avoid that, is for the rail tank to stay out of CQC
Actually, a blaster can easily kill a gunnlogi. That is if they are not running hardeners. So when I turn my double hardeners on, I calmly turn, and shoot. Boom dead maddie.
Piece of cake.
And rails in CQC, on a gunnlogi, is amazing. Why, because turning your turret and TURNING at the same time negates the slow turn speed of the turret.
Duh
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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