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I hate to be so final but Rail Tanks are COMPLETELY BROKEN

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CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:38:00 - [1] - Quote What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:40:00 - [2] - Quote You know this thread is just full of people that are complaining about anyone and anything that kills them. You will die. Adapt. My goodness.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:41:00 - [3] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:46:00 - [4] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do? It's not useless at all, my assault dropship gets an average of like 15-20 kills plus vehicle kills, unless one or two sica park so far in the red line I can't even get them with a suicide dropship packed with RE's (which is obnoxiously hard to do, btw). Maybe you're a bad pilot, but some of us aren't, we just get shut down by mechanics, rather than our opponents skill. Its not that I am a bad pilot, I DONT pilot. I haven't used a DS since the Assault dropship came out. I used many, lost lots of isk to forge guns and deemed them useless.(This was back in what 1.3 / 1.4 maybe?) Ok so now you are saying they work wonders.... but you are moaning that a rail tank counters you? So what is it, a good asset that gets lots of kills or is it useless?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 465	Posted - 2013.12.21 16:56:00 - [5] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: What a bunch of cry babies. This has been this way since I can remember. The answer is to not call in your precious little flying blob where it can be seen. CCP just needs to increase the flight ceiling. What the hell do you think is going to happen if and whey they bring out an actual AA-HAV or the like? I didn't know that the only part of flying dropships was calling them in. Did you know that flying around at the flight ceiling means you might as well not be in the game? The dropship is useless apart from fast transport. What exactly do you want it to do? It's not useless at all, my assault dropship gets an average of like 15-20 kills plus vehicle kills, unless one or two sica park so far in the red line I can't even get them with a suicide dropship packed with RE's (which is obnoxiously hard to do, btw). Maybe you're a bad pilot, but some of us aren't, we just get shut down by mechanics, rather than our opponents skill. So you get 15-20 kills and are complaining when people retaliate? That's the point I'm trying to get at. All I can see in this thread is that railguns counter dropships. (Btw CommanderBolt is NOT a tanker) I run around in militia medic starter fits.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:05:00 - [6] - Quote So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:44:00 - [7] - Quote Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. After thinking about this myself I came to a similar conclusion. How about while in the red zone NO ONE can fire anything? No firing of any weapons, no tank cannons, nothing. Until they have left the red zone? This would still keep the red zone as a safe place to hide but you would have to leave the red zone to snipe, shoot guns , shoot tank cannons etc? I am certainly in favour of this as I for one do not sit in the red zone. EDIT - To justify this perhaps have a really large "Energy stasis barrier" in place that nullifies ALL weaponry.... (Insert other BS excuse here for your pleasure)
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:55:00 - [8] - Quote Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Driver Cole wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: So yea this thread has resorted to totally non-constructive feedback. I apologise for over looking the red line issue and I GET that point. I also get that railgun tanks are best countered by other railgun tanks (when they are in the redzone at least). Let me be clear. So if we remove the red zones.... that may help the situation but then what about noobies getting there asses handed to them before they can even spawn in fully (Or the second they touch down from the MCC). Lets be honest that already happens on certain maps. Like others have said, (I too have been guilty of this in the past) it just seems that people want what ever it is that kills them nerfed. Lets look at the overall picture. What do you guys, from both sides of the fence, think would be a fair way to solve this problem? Lets do something constructive here. Okay how about having vehicles unable to fire within a red-zone and have the red-zone for ground vehicles be larger. This would remove red-line rails and make them closer to the battle. After thinking about this myself I came to a similar conclusion. How about while in the red zone NO ONE can fire anything? No firing of any weapons, no tank cannons, nothing. Until they have left the red zone? This would still keep the red zone as a safe place to hide but you would have to leave the red zone to snipe, shoot guns , shoot tank cannons etc? I am certainly in favour of this as I for one do not sit in the red zone. EDIT - To justify this perhaps have a really large "Energy stasis barrier" in place that nullifies ALL weaponry.... (Insert other BS excuse here for your pleasure) This only makes it easier to keep the other team red-lined. Ahh yes this is true. That point escaped me when I was thinking about this. So basically nothing can be done. The guys idea above about having turrets mounted on the MCC is a decent idea, allowing for air assets to harrass the red zone while still taking heat from the gunners. I specifically remember on BF2 the wake island map, the carrier team had the huge AA turret, but you would still see jets doing bombing and strafing runs on the carrier, if he was lucky enough to escape the hail of fire from that awesome AA deck barrel gun.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 474	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:57:00 - [9] - Quote Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 I dont know if you have checked out how it is coming in as a new player recently, but after reading some new guys thread the other day I checked it out and I have to say its a pretty poor experience. You wait many minutes for a battle to start and when it finally does its like a few guys v a few guys. They need to be incorporated with the current players somehow. Maybe have a game mode that only allows militia stuff so the noobs can enjoy the full 16v16 or what ever is it.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 475	Posted - 2013.12.22 06:01:00 - [10] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Void Echo wrote: if your going to remove the redline then make it to where every single enemy that gets 50-100 meters close to the MCC gets automatically killed, because without the redline, there would be no new players anymore as they would be killed the instant they spawn in or touch the ground, resulting in mass rage quitting and the player count dropping to probably 500 See my above reply regarding player operated turrets from the MCC. Sorry to multi-post like this. I honestly think this is the best idea by far so far. Any idea others have come up with has holes in it. However this seems a very viable way to do it. It was that way in other great FPS games with similar mechanics to dust (Battlefield being a prime example). I say we push this as an idea. Any feed back from others? I feel this would make DS pilots happy and at the same time, new guys would still be able to fight back using the mounted MCC turrets. (You know I say we just copy Battlefield 2142 and have Titan mode. That was awesome and VERY much like DUST in many ways)

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 476	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:53:00 - [11] - Quote You know all of this talk about "Red line rail tanks". I have to be honest, 90% + of games I am in there are no red line rail tanks. All of the tanks are out fighting and killing. I can't say for certain however I will test this now, but it seems to me dropships are a LOT harder to kill now they they ever were before UNLESS you are using a railgun tank or railgun installation. I was trying to swarm a DS the other day, the missiles did jack ****, any damage they did do the DS could easily rep. That was compounded by the fact swarms range is pathetic now. With my forge gun I found that ok I could do reasonable damage but the DS would be long gone as soon as it took the first hit and again, they could rep the damage I could cause. No to me it seems railguns are the only viable tactic to kill a DS unless the dropship pilot is a total moron.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 476	Posted - 2013.12.22 20:03:00 - [12] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The thing you must remember when saying that pilots escape, or seem to win is that you are not them. You see that one fight. I fly a lot. I know many who do, and I play with many of the best pilots this game has to offer. They die to AV. I die to AV. You may not see it but play 20 dropship matches as if you want to win and you will see deaths from swarms and forges. That is very true. Like I said before I did spend a lot of time as an ADS pilot when they first came out but I droped them completely as soon as I realised they were a bit of a gimmick. However I do use AV a lot and I am yet to kill a dropship without using a railgun. I remember back when I used the ADS forge guns would kill me all the time but like I said its not so easy now. Judge - What did you think to the suggestion a few pages back where we discussed removing the redline so you guys could venture into it, but at the downside of having player operated turrets onboard the MCC that would be powerful (To discourage spawn farming) ?
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 487	Posted - 2013.12.24 02:33:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Dropship pilots pfft - use tactics, hover low and use cover rather than just float around in an empty sky like a huge floating target LOL Brah, do you even Dropship? Unfortunately this is NOT Battlefield where that is a very valid tactic in the attack helis (Gunships)
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 487	Posted - 2013.12.24 02:35:00 - [14] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: You know all of this talk about "Red line rail tanks". I have to be honest, 90% + of games I am in there are no red line rail tanks. All of the tanks are out fighting and killing. I can't say for certain however I will test this now, but it seems to me dropships are a LOT harder to kill now they they ever were before UNLESS you are using a railgun tank or railgun installation. I was trying to swarm a DS the other day, the missiles did jack ****, any damage they did do the DS could easily rep. That was compounded by the fact swarms range is pathetic now. With my forge gun I found that ok I could do reasonable damage but the DS would be long gone as soon as it took the first hit and again, they could rep the damage I could cause. No to me it seems railguns are the only viable tactic to kill a DS unless the dropship pilot is a total moron. did you or did you not cause the pilot to flee asap? also swarms need a damage buff by 20 Well with the swarms they didnt seem to care, with the forge yes they did get out of dodge pretty fast but they just come back and do the same again, while in the mean time I have probably been killed multiple times. I could also say the same about tanks, hell we could use that argument for the whole game but then nothing would be destroyed. "Well you made him turn tail and run didn't you!?"........
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 515	Posted - 2013.12.30 04:51:00 - [15] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: As regards fitting and movement. Map design is such that the rail tank can cover huge parts of the map including often every objective (airspace we are talking about here) from great distance. The issue this causes is that they can hit a dropship almost anywhere. This negates the design decision of active modules giving us a strong attack window. Dropships have no attack window. We can be hit so easily from so far that we have few retreat options. Afterburners are not the solution. A variety of fits should be available and viable, scanners, CRUs etc. Forcing me to use a certain tactic because of a broken game element is a poor fix. not a proper solution. Well.. you're entitled to your opinion. However, i respectfully disagree, having a different opinion. Afterburners are a solution. They're not the solution you want... but that doesnt suddenly make them "not a solution". Also, your wording isnt helping. If you replace it with more neutral language, ie: "Forcing me to use a certain tactic, because of one specific game element", it becomes clearer, that this is not neccessarily a game breaking issue. Even if you dont believe that, it is still a fact that a reasonably equipped dropship, should be able to survive at least one hit, and then be able to take some sort of appropriate action. Unless of course, it is just gently floating in the air like a blimp saying "hit me hit me hit me!" Now, there is an edge case, for triple stacked damage mods, making a single hit overly extreme. I would suggest that this is not an issue of "rail tanks are broken", but rather, "damage mods are broken". Perhaps you should lobby for damage mods not being stackable. I for one, would be all behind that, since it would make infantry lives much better as well. Edit: I personally have hit a dropship, with a non-damage-modded rail tank, with around 6(maybe 5) shots in the same clip... and it still survived. So that's the biggest reason why I disagree that rail tanks are broken, even with respect to dropshits. (admittedly, MOST dropships, go down in flames after 3 shots. But we already know that most dropship fits out there are laughable) I have to agree, when stacking damage mods on a rail tank - ok maybe you can one or two shot a DS however I have seen the armour dropship with its hardeners on take 4 shots from a rail and still survive.