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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1294
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Posted - 2013.12.21 22:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Redline sniping of any kind is a problem, thats fair enough.
But since I have been tanking a lot more recently, I have tried taking out dropship myself, its not an easy feat, especially with rails travel time is a big factor and not easy to adjust for.
Secondly you are in an Assault Dropship, your primary role is transportation not aerial combat, that said I still think dropships need a HP buff to make them a little more hardy, they need to be able to take sustained fire when deploying troops in hotzones.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1294
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Posted - 2013.12.22 00:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:No they are not. If anything is broken it's your dropships.
I hate how they are now (near unkillable) and with no propper anti-aircraft weaponry. If railtanks can fill that niche now then I applaude it. Because having RGs popping Dropships in 2 shots from the redline being the primary defense is obviously balanced. How about making other options worth using?
Yes but that is like saying AV is balanced when the best method is an ELAV.
The only REAL problem is the redline.
Rail Tanks are just the start, we are meant to get access to full blown artillery, long range bombardment is valid tactic, what's wrong is the ability to do this from a SAFE ZONE.
Its that it can be done from a location where the user can't be retailiated against.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1296
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Posted - 2013.12.22 00:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
CEOPyrex CloneA wrote:Its strange that i seem to not be thinking anything is OP lately
The redline railgun snipers all die to my own railgun sniper quite easily, often they bring another in to try and deal with me, we hit that also.
Dropships do seem to die quickly to them i agree but the reward of you having your dropship in is perhaps 20-30 kills, cant have that much power without some risk surely?
We seem to want to try to make Dust 514 a simple 'rock paper scissors' exercise but i think most people have this entirely wrong, if they call in a tank, i also will call in a tank, they use a dropship to get on high, i also will do the same.
Often its about smacking down an enemy so that they stop doing something (thales snipers being killed by miltia shotgunners for example)
The endless call for this and that to be nerfed / buffed only ever destabilizes the game further i am afraid. sometimes things are best left not messed with as this entire forum for about a year has been a diatribe of nerf posts and frankly its getting dull.
The idea of the rock paper sciccors is about having circular gameplay.
In your example, they get a tank, you get a tank, you win, they get a dropship you get a dropship you win.
Now if you stop there as in you succesfully stop them fielding dropships,mwhat then? You have a clear cut winner often from very early on in the match.
Instead you want rock paper sciccors because every concievable combo of rock paper sciccors will have another combo it can beat.
So instead they get a tank, make push, you get a tank, you repel them, they get a dropship make a push, you get fighters to repel them(because you tried dropships and lost) they get AA to counter, you get infantry AV to counter, they get infantry, you get tanks.
Thus the cycle never ends, the battle turns into a game of skill and attrition, about what is applied where.
Thats why we want a rock paper sciccors philosophy, because it is better than escalation.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1296
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
So here is what I think an Assault Dropship is for,
During Combat it is Highly likely to require troops to be dropped into a contested zone, often in to areas with little cover, its here the assault dropship is useful, available to provide covering fire while troops find a safe location, the assault dropship isn't made for marathons of combat, instead often relying on gunship or fighter escort to successfully transport its cargo.
Does that sound right?
Is that how they should be / are being used?
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1299
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Posted - 2013.12.22 13:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Even if I agree with everything on this matter about the rail gun, I must say my grimsnes is quite hard to take down even for a rail tank. However it has no guns fitted at al butt crasy reps/armor/hardness/shieldbost/afterburner.
The counter is many time not to fly strait up I fly low/fast and slalom around buildings. It workes as I want it a armor personal carrier ( I but uplinks al over the map also ).
The one thing that that I notice is hovering Assult DP pilots over a point harasing the blues.
Then I just fly to a high spot/land call in a rail shoot em down recall tank and fly off into the sunset.
My point is that if you are a aircraft the speed and movement is your best defence, idk sometimes I feel like droship pilots wants to be flying tanks.
With that said rails are still broken, but if they are removed droppships will be OP
Sorry 4 my bad English
Regards And that's one of the OP's tactics in game. I've seen it myself. To hover and harass blues. So I don't understand. Someone found a way to take you out and you're upset about it? I call it due justice. The only thing broken is folks ability to understand that for every action there's a counter action. Don't get mad when that counter happens to you. Right and then the dropship pilot is like alright I'm gonna call down another dropship and go get that rail tank by using these mountains as cover then activate my afterburner as I come screaming in 2 feet off the deck aaaaaaaaand he's in the red line.............well better go recall this and cry to myself that no matter how much sp I have invested, no matter how many months I've spent to get good at flying and hone my combat skills, I will never be able to kill that guy, or even fight him. That is the problem, is it so much to ask that we can also have a chance to destroy the rail tank? Or is it too much to ask for a fair fight? What's broken is there is plenty of consequences for dropships, fly somewhere without scanning the entire redline extensively and 1.2 seconds later you loose your ship, and there is no consequence for the rail tank as he is in an unassailable position. Further more why does a rail tank sitting somewhere that makes him invincible seem fine, but an assault dropship risking his ship to provide some cover fire for his squad/team a problem? @ Piraten Hovnore, I have found flying low can also be just as deadly, if swarms, forge guns, or a rail tank hit you its just as likely that the knock back will cause you to crash. I can fly inches off the ground and tend to avoid it due to this fact.
Yes bet that is a redline problem as has been said so many times before.
The thing is how often in a CLOSE FIGHT will be teams get redlined? Once in a blue moon.
So why do we have a red line? For a safe place to spawn without being camped.
Why do we need that? Protostompers.
If we didn't have the protostomping phenomenon, we wouldn't need redlines, if we didn't have redlines then long ramge could be countered with short range flanking. Thus it would be balanced.
All of our redline, equipment and vehicluar problems spawn from protostomping, so long as it happens the game isn't balanced.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1299
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Posted - 2013.12.22 14:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Yes bet that is a redline problem as has been said so many times before.
The thing is how often in a CLOSE FIGHT will be teams get redlined? Once in a blue moon.
So why do we have a red line? For a safe place to spawn without being camped.
Why do we need that? Protostompers.
If we didn't have the protostomping phenomenon, we wouldn't need redlines, if we didn't have redlines then long ramge could be countered with short range flanking. Thus it would be balanced.
All of our redline, equipment and vehicluar problems spawn from protostomping, so long as it happens the game isn't balanced.
I know why we have a red line, or safe zone. I don't know why rail tanks are allowed to fire from it. I made a thread about vehicles not being able to operate their guns in the red which I think would solve this issue. Give that a read if you want my opinion on what should be done.
You can indeed stop people firing their weapons, but how do you distinguish between a redline sniper/railgunner and someone who is being redlined?
Further more how do you teach a computer to tell the difference? When is it fair to saynyour behind your redline your blaster won't work but that enemy one will?
The redline needs to affectively be a DMZ, nothing goes in or out without CONCORD tactically nuking you from space.
At least in high sec anyway.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1301
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Posted - 2013.12.22 14:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:So here is what I think an Assault Dropship is for,
During Combat it is Highly likely to require troops to be dropped into a contested zone, often in to areas with little cover, its here the assault dropship is useful, available to provide covering fire while troops find a safe location, the assault dropship isn't made for marathons of combat, instead often relying on gunship or fighter escort to successfully transport its cargo.
Does that sound right?
Is that how they should be / are being used? below are 3 uses of a assault dropship that are not Gunship type roles. These are ones I do use, but only in a squad. 1) I use an Incubus often with a CRU fitted. I dont need many seats as the players pop in and leave when near a good spot. The speed allows me to keep moving, covering the map quickly to deliver the spawned troops. The front gun I use to clear enemy uplinks and nanos so I can also land and replace their uplinks with mine. I don't go for kills but for equipment. This is where a gun on a ship is useful. I can play the role of putting my team where needed and slowing the enemies supply line of troops and equipment. So not a pure logi role or a full on assault role. It is a build only the ADS can get as dropships are today. The limit in seats gives it a strategic insertion and disruption role. 2) Another build I use is a rail (i have proto) fitted assault dropship. I use this to not kill tanks but to 'Force' them. So when I play with a good tanker, like DELBOY, I chase a tank toward him and use my turret to get the enemy tank to activate his hardeners. By the time he runs into DELBOY his hardeners are on cooldown or have a short run left. If I can I do this with a forge gunner or 2 in the ship with me .Get a tank to harden up. Chase it till they run down then drop the forge gunners on them. 3) If the enemy is on a roof or holding an outpost I use an assault dropship to take a knifer or remote explosive player or scout behind them. Stefan the almighty is my goto guy for this. I can drop him, often right behind them (like the mushroom roof that has a wall across the middle so the enemy cannot see me drop him) then I go and hover right in-front of them and shoot to get their attention. While they are look at me they get murdered from behind. The front gun allows me to do these roles. But I am not playing as a mini gunship as these tasks use passengers as part of the tactics. This is the role between Dropship and Gunship the assault varients can fill.
Fair enough, however I would say some of these roles will be much harder with the introduction of other aircraft, also the new map towers are anti camp so number 3 won't be needed for rooves.
However stealth deployment is definitely something dropships should be capable of, with the potential for logistics dropsuits to get cloaks much like the scout.
Number 2 will be required less as maps and player sizes get bigger, and 1 this effectively Strategic air support which is EXACTLY the dropships point.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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