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Quil Evrything wrote:

Krom Ganesh wrote:

Quil Evrything wrote:

Krom Ganesh wrote:

@Quil

There is nothing wrong with an assault scout or a slayer logi as long as they don't outperform the suits that are intended for that role.

The problem being, of course.. that they do.

No one's denying that. All I'm pointing out is that the solution shouldn't wipe out a legitimate playstyle.

Fair enough.

Im going to make a sort of multi-reply post here.
I read lots of good stuff about reasonable overlaps, etc.
What remains, is to define things like "legitimate" and "reasonable".

Lets talk about 'legitimate playstyle'. Be more specific as to what bits you consider legitimate.

Form my perspective, it's legitimate for a scout to go running around killing everyone. No argument there. Twisted

Thing is, really good scouts were doing that BEFORE cloaks and massive HP buffs (via extra slots) were given to us.
Therefore, taking away the same-for-all-suits bonuses shields and armor, does not "wipe out" that playstyle.
It just makes it more challenging. As it should be, for a supposed light suit.

To restate my personal position:
It seems somewhat reasonable to me, that a proto scout should be able to reach the levels of HP, as a basic assault suit.
It does not seem reasonable, that a proto scout should be able to reach the same HP levels as an ADV assault suit.

(and really, the main culprit is armor. Heavy armor does not belong on a 'light' suit. It's a literal contradiction)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1019	Posted - 2014.04.10 22:35:00 - [13111] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: @Quil There is nothing wrong with an assault scout or a slayer logi as long as they don't outperform the suits that are intended for that role. The problem being, of course.. that they do. No one's denying that. All I'm pointing out is that the solution shouldn't wipe out a legitimate playstyle. Fair enough. Im going to make a sort of multi-reply post here. I read lots of good stuff about reasonable overlaps, etc. What remains, is to define things like "legitimate" and "reasonable". Lets talk about 'legitimate playstyle'. Be more specific as to what bits you consider legitimate. Form my perspective, it's legitimate for a scout to go running around killing everyone. No argument there. Thing is, really good scouts were doing that BEFORE cloaks and massive HP buffs (via extra slots) were given to us. Therefore, taking away the same-for-all-suits bonuses shields and armor, does not "wipe out" that playstyle. It just makes it more challenging. As it should be, for a supposed light suit. To restate my personal position: It seems somewhat reasonable to me, that a proto scout should be able to reach the levels of HP, as a basic assault suit. It does not seem reasonable, that a proto scout should be able to reach the same HP levels as an ADV assault suit. (and really, the main culprit is armor. Heavy armor does not belong on a 'light' suit. It's a literal contradiction) I think we're all pretty much on the same page Quil, it's just the fix that's the question. In my mind, a lot of the problems can be resolved by buffing Assault base stats and updating their slot config. With those changes they should clearly outshine scouts when it comes to EHP (if they're fitting armor/shields), while having more versatility in fitting. I'm not keen on trying to balance different suits at different tiers, but a proto Assault fitted for tank should be able to out tank/damage a proto Scout fitted for tank, in a stand up fight. And just to clarify one thing, a lot of what we're all talking about here is tank, not assault/slayer playstyle. With the exception of heavies, we're all using the same weapon set. I understand why tank is being associated with an Assault playstyle due to TTK, but that's not 100% accurate. Assaults should be better with weapons than Scouts, in addition to being able to fit a moderately better tank. But push them too far and you'll end up with a situation where Assaults are encroaching on the Commando/Heavy space, which is just replicating the current issue with another suit. The key to the Assault should be versatility, not EHP. Knowledge is power
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 1211	Posted - 2014.04.10 22:59:00 - [13112] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Assaults should be better with weapons than Scouts, in addition to being able to fit a moderately better tank. I dont think there's any sensible way to do that as far as damage goes. After all, one of the big selling points for handguns, was for women's self-defense. a 100lb woman with a gun, can stop a 300lb man with it, just as easily as a 200lb man with the same gun. A bullet is a bullet is a bullet. About the only other way to make assaults "better" with weapons than lights, would be to either; a) give lights a more limited ammo pool or b) be more restrictive about exactly which weapons a scout could carry. I dont think either of those would be particularly pleasing. I'd rather lose tank
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1638	Posted - 2014.04.10 23:11:00 - [13113] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Brokerib wrote: Assaults should be better with weapons than Scouts, in addition to being able to fit a moderately better tank. I dont think there's any sensible way to do that as far as damage goes. After all, one of the big selling points for handguns, was for women's self-defense. a 100lb woman with a gun, can stop a 300lb man with it, just as easily as a 200lb man with the same gun. A bullet is a bullet is a bullet. About the only other way to make assaults "better" with weapons than lights, would be to either; a) give lights a more limited ammo pool or b) be more restrictive about exactly which weapons a scout could carry. I dont think either of those would be particularly pleasing. I'd rather lose tank Yes, adding extra (additional) assault bonuses to weapons seems pretty dicey.... afterall, the current meta for alot of scouts is to add tank mods, and I'd hate to see that be the only effective way to play a scout due to increased killing power of assaults. Whenever assaults talk about adding a damage bonus I get a bit nervous.... HP is less of a concern to me. Maybe just updating the slot config, adding a bit of HP and ensuring that overall the assaults have the PG/CPU to fit excellent weapons is the key. I know a lot of my ADV fits have standard weapons, for assaults fitting ADV or even PRO weapons on ADV suits should be easier than doing it on a scout (unless you are going to just leave some scout EQ slots empty or something... use the old logassaut trick) This still means assaults have more "damage" but at least in that sense they are paying for it in the ISK cost for their suits as opposed to some passive bonus which buffs all weaponry. Double posting like a Kaiser.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1021	Posted - 2014.04.10 23:39:00 - [13114] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Brokerib wrote: Assaults should be better with weapons than Scouts, in addition to being able to fit a moderately better tank. I dont think there's any sensible way to do that as far as damage goes. After all, one of the big selling points for handguns, was for women's self-defense. a 100lb woman with a gun, can stop a 300lb man with it, just as easily as a 200lb man with the same gun. A bullet is a bullet is a bullet. About the only other way to make assaults "better" with weapons than lights, would be to either; a) give lights a more limited ammo pool or b) be more restrictive about exactly which weapons a scout could carry. I dont think either of those would be particularly pleasing. I'd rather lose tank I was thinking more along the lines of what Matti has mentioned, the ability to fit better weapons, in addition to a slot layout that allows for maintaining a reasonable tank while adding damage mods/EWAR/whatever. Or if they like, stacking EHP to start approaching heavy territory, but without the benefits of damage reductions and heavy weapons. Or stacking EWAR modules to approach Scouts, but without the inherent Scout advantages. Or stacking damage mods to approach Commando's, at the cost of EHP and no less weapon versatility. And so on. Knowledge is power
Llast 326 An Arkhos 2826	Posted - 2014.04.10 23:52:00 - [13115] - Quote Really I think the Assaults just need a balance pass (which really should have been done for 1.8) With a reasonable fitting capacity the Assault should be able to fit what it wants into a good selection of slots. Scouts, Sentinels, and Commandos got a buff, putting them in the right place for 1.8 TTK. Logi already were best fitting and slot layout, but the Assault really did not gain a proper retooling that they needed. So we find ourselves in a place where scouts can easily outperform them, and out tank them. The increased fitting capacity that Assaults got through the Weapon fitting reduction is greatGÇª but they don't gain anything to really spend that bonus space on. Up slots (with corresponding fitting space) and the versatility of all the suits should be pretty damn close to where it should be. Unfortunately this was done when the suit respec hit so that choices were fully available. KRRROOOOOOM
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 1211	Posted - 2014.04.11 00:37:00 - [13116] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: So we find ourselves in a place where scouts can easily outperform them, and out tank them. The increased fitting capacity that Assaults got through the Weapon fitting reduction is greatGÇª but they don't gain anything to really spend that bonus space on. Contrariwise.. I think in theory, suddenly being able to fit proto weapons where you could only fit basic before, is a pretty awesome advantage! ... .. until you realize that some weapons cost 40k each. In which case, even if I can fit em, i cant afford to run them, in which case, (assault) Screw you CCP, because you sure screwed me(/assault)
Llast 326 An Arkhos 2827	Posted - 2014.04.11 01:03:00 - [13117] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Llast 326 wrote: So we find ourselves in a place where scouts can easily outperform them, and out tank them. The increased fitting capacity that Assaults got through the Weapon fitting reduction is greatGÇª but they don't gain anything to really spend that bonus space on. Contrariwise.. I think in theory, suddenly being able to fit proto weapons where you could only fit basic before, is a pretty awesome advantage! ... .. until you realize that some weapons cost 40k each. In which case, even if I can fit em, i cant afford to run them, in which case, (assault) Screw you CCP, because you sure screwed me(/assault) Fair point. Economy factors in as well. KRRROOOOOOM
J0LLY R0G3R Dirt Nap Squad. 727	Posted - 2014.04.11 03:42:00 - [13118] - Quote Spademan wrote: J0LLY R0G3R wrote: I got wps for days on that game too lol. It's just surprising I think, pre 1.7 there was really only 1 scout I ever saw running a rep tool when i played him. Trainquil, and I laughed a lil bit about everytime I saw him repping up some gallente logi. I want to move away from using the cloak in pubs, and I see so many people running around half armor. That's WPs I don't care to leave on the table. Well if you're looking for suggestions having Uplinks and Nanohives can really help you rack up points, as well as get your team out of a sticky situation. Medic is also an option with a Needle and repper. RE's are always fun. RE's are those things that blow up right. XD jus messin man yeah I've got those on all but a couple suits, and indeed uplink and hives on a few scoutlogi suits XD wps like crazy ++++Gimme Back my SG RoF++++ XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
I do SUCK The Phoenix Federation 71	Posted - 2014.04.11 03:57:00 - [13119] - Quote Jolly I will some how find you n pc and kill you somehow (Mutters to himself) POW U DEAD SUCKA=ƒö½ Proceeds to Tbag in Ammar Scout Suit =ƒù+=ƒÆÇ
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2075	Posted - 2014.04.11 04:35:00 - [13120] - Quote Spademan wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: So... I have a lot of alts. I try not to, but that initial ISK amount isn't enough for skill books so I send them ISK from Appia. They run cheap gear so make ISK whenever I play on them. I decided to consolidate my ISK last night as a few alts are no longer necessary as I have all the light weapons to at least ops 3. Finally reached a billion isk! Edit: Moss, you still owe me 65M, just because I have more than enough doesn't mean you get off the hook I can has teh iskies? You can have some, but only as a loan. Must pay back with interest. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2834	Posted - 2014.04.11 07:59:00 - [13121] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Llast 326 wrote: So we find ourselves in a place where scouts can easily outperform them, and out tank them. The increased fitting capacity that Assaults got through the Weapon fitting reduction is greatGÇª but they don't gain anything to really spend that bonus space on. Contrariwise.. I think in theory, suddenly being able to fit proto weapons where you could only fit basic before, is a pretty awesome advantage! ... .. until you realize that some weapons cost 40k each. In which case, even if I can fit em, i cant afford to run them, in which case, (assault) Screw you CCP, because you sure screwed me(/assault) Fair point. Economy factors in as well. Pub payouts need at least a 50k boost anyway. And we should all know by now that balancing anything by isk is a bad way to balance. Proto weapons aren't so bad; it's the proto suits that cost the crazy money, so being able to comfortably fit a proto weapon on an advanced suit will save assaults a lot of cash. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Yan Darn Science For Death 569	Posted - 2014.04.11 08:07:00 - [13122] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Spademan wrote: Well if you're looking for suggestions having Uplinks and Nanohives can really help you rack up points, as well as get your team out of a sticky situation. Medic is also an option with a Needle and repper. RE's are always fun. Man... I can't give up das REs!!! I had a game last night where I was defending some objective and I swear the enemy team was composed of a bunch of lemmings. Standing at the top of the stairs by the supply depot I just lobbed em down and they kept running through the doorway to that building and blowing themselves up! Got 8 RE kills and a few pistol kills in 2 minutes as they were trying to take that objective. Eventually 1/2 their team stormed me and drove me back but by that time the other scouts in my squad showed up put the hurt on them. That being said, I may give this Injector / Rep tool a shot. Just want to clarify though: you can't blow people up with either of those, right? I know zis place! This is pretty much what my sig is referring to (though it is how I feel when I solo guard any objective). It's great for kills even when the objective is red and depending on which/map socket it is, you can use the fact that on the top ( supply depot) part, you can jump down to get behind anyone entering either entrance - much easier to stay alive now when swarmed with cloak. It is also a kind of a secondary objective on one of the Dom maps - usually packed with uplinks and hives, I've had half the team distracted trying to get to that supply depot ^_^ Anyway, I'm looking forward to setting up a dual proto (finally!) uplink fit on my Valor to tonight. I used my ADV uplink fit In a Dom last night - spent half the match (re)setting up a front for my team then flanking from the opposite direction. Who needs cloak when you have 10 reds facing one direction and you can just keep popping out of cover, ganking the couple at the back and run away again? The Ghost of Bravo
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 5042	Posted - 2014.04.11 09:46:00 - [13123] - Quote Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior Pro I \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1026	Posted - 2014.04.11 10:04:00 - [13124] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. red dead redemption is excellent, it's like being client eastwood. The uncharted series is good too, if you've ever wanted to be indiana jones. if you're looking for something a bit different, journey from the PSN store is amazing. Knowledge is power
Patrick57 6908	Posted - 2014.04.11 10:26:00 - [13125] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. Heavy Rain and Red Dead Redemption are great games. =] Hell is empty and all the devils are here. -William Shakespeare
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1197	Posted - 2014.04.11 10:31:00 - [13126] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. A little off topic he says. Have you seen this place? Far Cry Blood Dragon is a must have. As is Burnout Paradise if you're into racing games (best game of the 7th generation if you ask me) Resistance 1 and 2 are good, but unfortunately the online servers are down, so no more 60 player matches. Dishonored is amazing, if missing a u in the title. L.A. Noire also good, especially if you want something different. Deus ex is another good game. There's more, but these are just off the top of my head. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
noob cavman Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 1218	Posted - 2014.04.11 10:46:00 - [13127] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. Final fantasy x and x2 hd remaster, best jrpg of the ps2. final fantasy 13, its alright and fairly cheap,. skyrim, for I am the dragonborn. Wearing the hat with badass horns. Fallout 3. Ultimate game. deadspace 1,2,3. Warning. Will make you paranoid of hallways, vents and your own shadow. Metro last light, just sell your kidney and buy it. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
IgniteableAura Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 851	Posted - 2014.04.11 12:45:00 - [13128] - Quote I would like to echo burnout paradise, that game is awesome. All other burnout games pale in comparison. Bayonetta is awesome, if you like those types of games. (devil may cry type) TombRaider was surprisingly good and it was free on PSN+ Metro also free on PSN+ (haven't yet played it) Payday2 also free on PSN+ but really only fun with 3 other buddies. Metal Gear Solid 4 is epic as expected I really enjoyed Brink, others were somewhat disappointed. MAG!! and Resistance2 but no more servers PS, CCP seriously frustrates the crap out of me..........Looks at the EVE dev blogs section and plethora of "summer expansion information" PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
Krom Ganesh Nos Nothi 1510	Posted - 2014.04.11 12:57:00 - [13129] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. Definitely should get FarCry 3 (as well as the blood dragon standalone dlc) and Red Dead Redemption. Journey Dead Space 1 & 2 (ignore 3) Demon's Souls Dark Souls Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen Dynasty Warriors 8 (recommend you rent before you buy to see if you like this sort of gameplay) Metal Gear Solid 4 InFamous (never played InFamous 2 but people seemed to like it also) Assassin's Creed 2 BioShock 1 Dishonored LittleBigPlanet 1 & 2
Llast 326 An Arkhos 2832	Posted - 2014.04.11 14:26:00 - [13130] - Quote People are mentioning a lot of good games here Want to try Dishonoured Little Big is HUGE fun Heavy Rain loved that Deus ExGÇª. Get this one (especially if you love Bladerunner film, so many nods and references) KRRROOOOOOM

voidfaction Void of Faction 202	Posted - 2014.04.11 15:39:00 - [13131] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hey this is a little off topic but I was looking for a good ps3 game to buy. Nothing new just older games that are cheaper. A couple ones I recall wanting but couldn't afford at the time were Heavy Rain, FarCry 3, Red Dead Redemption. Any older games you guys recommend? I'm ok with almost any genre. Skyrim
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 4143	Posted - 2014.04.11 15:46:00 - [13132] - Quote Deus Ex is fantastic. Tales of Xillia or Tales of Graces F (Good JRPG's that aren't FF) Any Fallout game Just got done with the Mass Effect Trilogy for the first time. Worth the money to play across all three games and make your own story. FarCry 3 was amazing. Dat Weed field mission Infamous was really good as well Skyrim is great for the first 100 hours. Then you never play it again without mods. On the other hand, I can play Oblivion for forever. I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost I hack at Mach V
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 92	Posted - 2014.04.11 16:38:00 - [13133] - Quote @ Marauder Here's my top 10: * Valkyria Chronicles * X-Com * Deus Ex * Skyrim * Borderlands II * Metal Gear Solid IV * Mass Effect (all of 'em) * Uncharted (all of 'em) * Dark Souls (all of 'em) * Fallout (all of 'em) @ Llast Rent Dishonored. Good game, but short. Bang?
Llast 326 An Arkhos 2836	Posted - 2014.04.11 18:42:00 - [13134] - Quote Last night had a horrid time with my Minja NK/FL combo, very discouraged by that. Today I ran a couple matches because i had some time. Not discouraged now, went very positive in ISK/KD/WP all around good times. Stalked out some folks holding a point and just decimated them. Sat and watched them try to find me after Knifing two, before bouncing them off the ceiling with the FL. Then went back to picking them off with the Knife. had one close call with a Heavy who tanked a full Knifing, but FL finished him before he could get me. Yeah good times. KRRROOOOOOM
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2077	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:10:00 - [13135] - Quote White Knight Chonicles II (which comes with the first game included). better than any FF series as far as RPGs go. Tales of Graces f was amazing. Second favorite Tales game, only Tales of Symphonia I have liked more. Armored Core V and Armored Core: Verdict Day for your mech action needs. Uncharted, I'd rent or borrow. Not good enough to own. I heard the second game was the best and the third was terrible. Dragon Age series. Boarderlands. So much fun. I got Infamous 1 back when the PSN accounts got hacked, loved it. Infamous 2 was really cool and the powers were more fun but they changed Cole's appearance and voice actor which I was not a fan of :( Kinda meh on Mass Effect. Too much hype for the game set my sights high only to find really terrible controls and repetitive game play. The first one has so many side quests that it's easy to lose focus on the story and forget what it was you were doing while every single planet you are on looks the same only the color changes from red to blue. Multiplayer is fun in ME3 (you can get the bundle of all 3 games for $40 new or around $20 used) And Disgaea 3 & 4. Love the tactics RPGs, the stories are fun and interesting. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5851	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:25:00 - [13136] - Quote I don't know why I take breaks from dust, getting back in is painful. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 97	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:36:00 - [13137] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Dragon Age Sh!t! Can't believe I forgot this one ... :: Editing earlier post :: Bang?
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 1494	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:53:00 - [13138] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I don't know why I take breaks from dust, getting back in is painful. Edit: then I jump into a domination squad and kick myself for thinking that. I've been ~~raging at~~ playing a lot of Dark Souls II lately, I've nearly forgotten about Dust. But then I realized my corp has a field op coming soon I need to participate in. Damn authority responsibilities! Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Apr. 1st
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1203	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:55:00 - [13139] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Uncharted, I'd rent or borrow. Not good enough to own. I heard the second game was the best and the third was terrible. Just want to say, the second was the best. But, in my opinion, the third wasn't terrible, the story just didn't make sense in parts after following 2. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Murt Lesp Leviathan Battalion 168	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:58:00 - [13140] - Quote @ Shotty Nice to see you on the battlefield, shame I was looking into your CreoDron's Barrel The Leviathan has Awoken and in hungers That was an Execution - Pistol Headshot Kill Sitting on a hill, ready to kill



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