Would be nice if the person being repped would know if he is being repped or not to change his tactics. If I am switching between targets to rep a lot they may still think they have reps and get too ballsy and get killed.

Also I kinda like this idea.

So,now that the killers get passive damage increase.
And constant officer weapons,and even deadlier experimental weapons.


What do us supporters get?
Another shaft you say?
My,how generous!
Again...

How about a logistics warbarge?
Replace damage increase with equipment efficiency.
Replace officer/experimental weapons with equipment.
+ Yellow stripes = Profit!!!

Open Beta logi with maxed EQ here.

My view on the reptool: I don't like leaching a heavy/slayer 24/7. I think it's ok for intense engagements, but running behind a heavy just not to miss those 35+ Guardian points is just meh... (i think that should be lowered to +25 like kill assists)

I would like to see a overheat on the reptool with the following changes.

The reptool overheats if latched on for extended periods. Overheating increases cooldown.

Standard cooldown 3 sec. Overheat cooldown 10 sec.

Having a seized reptool in hand prevents switching to a weapon, like with overheated weapons.

Time to overheat on a core focused may be around a minute, so that you can have a longer engagement but not perma leash.

The reptool will give higher output (+25%) when heated up (after two thirds of it's heating cycle)

The reptool will overheat slower in lower tiers, since you need quite some time to rep anything with the basic ones.

High tier reptools would have a much shorter cooldown. They overheat faster, but they also recover pretty much instantly (3 sec at proto).

Wp should not be attached to the repping cycle, but the amount of reps given.


To make life for Logis easier, make a quickdraw EQ slot, which can be chosen with the weapon swap button. This would make it much easier for logis to switch from weapon to reptool and vice versa.

Give the Amarr the possibility to put EQ in his sidearm slot.

Give the Caldari either a combined sidearm/EQ slot or one more EQ slot.


Apart from that, I'd like to see more speed for the logis, since they need to run around much more than point defenders to either drop EQ in different locations or run to the depot to resupply. Logis need to be at least as fast as Assaults, to be able to move with a slayer squad.

What has been said about a general EQ buff for logis, I agree upon. EQ should only shine on logis, not on the other suits.

I would also like to see racial reptool variants, like tools with resistances, shield tools and combined shield/armour tools.


Make a special Stealth Uplink useful to Scouts, that has insane fast spawn times (2sec), but only 5 spawns on it and a very low scan profile (not detectable by a Gallogi). It would be 3 carried but only one active at a time. It would be nice if this link was given a fitting bonus on scouts like the cloak has. This would help in reducing the Scout QQ which I'm tired of.

As long as repair tools have a nearly 400% loss vs weapons,i'll fight cooldowns tooth and nail.

However,a warm up mechanism would be interesting.

The more you repair,the better you repair.
If you stop you slowly cooldown to a low repair rate.(the starting rate)

The reptool is not supposed to give your heavy invincibility, but it should give the heavy time to kill two incoming heavies of the same tier.

So considering the blue heavy and the two incoming red heavies are of same tier and skill, the engagement should be pretty even, with one side winning with a sliver of health left. If you are on the winnning side, you can rep your guy up instantly to full health, while the other side, would need to find a logi or retreat until self repping does the job.

The logi's job is not to make the heavy invincible but more durable.

My proposal is intended to make the logi job a little bit more active and less boring.

I personally have no problems to run with a heavy, but just leaching him with no action involved is just plain boring. I'd prefer if the overheat mechaninc would give me more to think about. It would also involve skill to time the overheat right, and not to seize your reptool. Much more fun in my opinion. As compensation, the reptool might be buffed a little (in cool state).

So. yeah. ahem. Scaled with HP repped, not cycles so rewards will scale.
Don't change rewards
Change gear prices
Make gear better, and even better for logis.

snip

3. Agreed. This is something I am advocating to CCP as part of the Logi revamp.

snip

Is this something that CCP / Rattati is looking at, or just something they hope posting here will pacify us. Right now I get the feeling that it is just a pacifying technique.

I dread a blue tag post that just says, "We're working on it. It will be implemented... Soon. TM"

We have 64 pages of Ideas, some good, some great, and some terribad. We have been talking about a logi revamp for months and have seen nothing other than the BW which effectively made a logi's job harder, with no benefit to the class. I know you have been advocating a change and I know it is on the Rattati's Big Board of Things. But it is not on the road map anywhere in the next 3 releases.

Sooo

Is this something that CCP / Rattati is looking at, or just something they hope posting here will pacify us. Right now I get the feeling that it is just a pacifying technique.

Are you willing to say that there is some positive changes seriously being look at for the logi? You don't have to explain just a simple yes or no.

Sadly I am beginning to agree with Mee One, and that sad.

Sadly I am beginning to agree with Mee One, and that's sad.

[quote=Mister Goo]
Where's the Gal uplink?
Or Cal shield tool?
Amarr scanner?
Min nanohive?

Oh yeah...they don't exist.
And since they don't,there is no bar set for proper balance,it simply can't be done,unless you pull the numbers out of your butt.

So when i,or anyone else throw seemingly insane numbers around,this is why.

We have 64 pages of Ideas, some good, some great, and some terribad. We have been talking about a logi revamp for months and have seen nothing other than the BW which effectively made a logi's job harder, with no benefit to the class. I know you have been advocating a change and I know it is on the Rattati's Big Board of Things. But it is not on the road map anywhere in the next 3 releases.

Sooo

Is this something that CCP / Rattati is looking at, or just something they hope posting here will pacify us. Right now I get the feeling that it is just a pacifying technique.

Are you willing to say that there is some positive changes seriously being look at for the logi? You don't have to explain just a simple yes or no.

Sadly I am beginning to agree with Mee One, and that sad.

How should the equivalent equipments be?
How should them be used? Amarr/Caldari should be dropped, as Nanohives and Drop Uplinks?
Minmatar/Gallente should be pointed and used, as Rep Tools and Active Scanners?

Don't get me wrong, just curiosity since all this can change a lot in the game

To be blunt it has not happened as expediently as I would wish and as recently as this week I brought it up again because I believe it is long overdue.

The Trello board is for patch level releases and the bulk of the logi fixes can be done via hotfix so it is still slated for sooner than it seems but I will redouble my efforts to make sure it does not get lost in the shuffle.

Well,that's the problem.

First you have to define logistics.
I always thought logistics were techsperts.

Sacrificing physical force (eHP speed and stamina),for the ability to be the best at external support (think stereotype nerd,weak physically,strong mentally),multiplying the force presented by other units.

Which would mean logistics should have the best eWAR (range and precision),and hacking right?
While scouts would have the best dampening.(they are described as being sneaky and compact,not eWAR based)

Well there's the problem.
Logistics isn't good at eWAR,and logistics is only moderately faster at hacking.

Logistics is currently good at only 1 thing,being an equipment mule,and while worth it in theory that in no way aids in survival like eWAR would.

So until CCP decides to give logistics a defined survival mechanism through methods that are already sacrificed for, pondering equipment to attach to the broken suit is a bad idea,as it allows for distraction from the #1 problem,the suit itself.

Think assault level buff in regards to eWAR and external support for logistics,that would do it.
And seeing as logistics and assaults are supposed to make up the bulk of all suits in combat,while scouts are supposed to be niche,it makes sense to buff them in a similar fashion.

But as to your questions.
I have no idea.

TBH i'm picturing different shapes,but essentially the same functions (like rifles).
But this is only because CCP hasn't even given us an inch in regards to the possibility.

I do however see a scanlink,you place it,you press the fire button it sends out a 'ping' and scans.
Limited amount carried,limited amount of scans,refilled at the supply depot.

The only one who can provide "a good intel" is the GalLogi but it have to stop it actions and take a distance to use an active scan. From here we see a problem. Why not add to the logistics bonus a +10% range role bonus? From Protofits the base range of the Logis is 25 meters, in this case the GalLogi would have (lvl5, Logi and Range Skills) 50 meters, seems a good for a better "intel".
50 meters is crazy far,35m seems less insane and would encourage less soloing assault style
But range without precision is nothing, why not -2/3% scan precision per level? From this point the base is 45db (seems too much =/) but considering a change to 40dB and lvl5 at Precision and Logi skills it could turn too be either 32db or 30db, good to see even some Scouts.
the change would have to be significant enough to be worth replacing eHP mods. So probably.

I don't know about a bonus to hacking, but maybe a better hacking speed built-in the dropsuit?
Yes

About scouts, they're sneaky and compact, their intent is to invade, provide some intel and hack without getting caught. Maybe the "answer" is to diminish the CPU/PG of the scouts but give them a bonus to cloak and profile/precision/range modules?
Don't wave the nerf bat so fast,there might be a way to just buff logistics without nerfing scouts.

Considering the Equipments and what I know from the focus of each faction, i thought in this for the equivalents (maybe some/all of them already have been thought, but..)

Repair Tool: maybe a Caldari Shield Regen (Rail Rifle like, could just buff the shield recharge and diminish the shield recharge delay), Gallente Armor Regen (Repair tool like, but is stronger with lower range than the others) and a Amarr Power-Up (basically a ray to give a damage resist to someone, dunno if would be a good idea..)
FTFY

Active Scanner: Considering Cloak Field as a Caldari answer to the active scanner, we could have Amarr distraction points (deployable and fix or deployable and auto-moveable? maybe hide the user while is being active..).
Minmatar, being allies from Gallente could use some of the Gallente Technology to create remote scanners, as remote explosives they would be deployable and activatable (in active mode, it would emit some pulses and enter in "overheat mode" (?), just like Scrambler Rifle/Ion Pistol)

Can't think about the others (Drop Uplink, Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, etc...)

As long as repair tools have a nearly 400% loss vs weapons,i'll fight cooldowns tooth and nail.

However,a warm up mechanism would be interesting.

The more you repair,the better you repair.
If you stop you slowly cooldown to a low repair rate.(the starting rate)

This could be very fun. Adding a sense of timing and reward for some heavy battle repairs.

About scouts,every one has an eWAR bonus but Min.
It has hacking and...NK (the wrong racial weapon).

Before bonuses were swapped logistics had hacking as was intended.
But CCP nerfed equipment as an excuse to steal that bonus and,to be blunt,put it on the wrong suit.

As i see it there are 3 faces to this game.
eHP,evasion,eWAR.

And in every class they are dominant in at least one of these...

eHP -heavies,bad evasion,bad eWAR
All round -assault,good eHP,good evasion,mediocre eWAR

Then there's scouts...
eHP of a logistics.
Better evasion if they decide not to tank.
eWAR for passives and dampening.

And logistics..
Low eHP means high evasion right? Nope
Low eHP and low evasion means high eWAR right? Nope
Then what does logistics get? The ability to carry extra stuff! Woo for being a worthless pack mule!

Logistics should be the best at eWAR if they aren't supposed to be active combat suits.
eWAR = Scanning and precision as well as hacking

Yet they aren't,why?
Because 'lolreasons'.

Still believe the lie that scouts should hack faster?
Let me ask you 1 thing,what color are all the installations?

Look closely,there are patches of yellow!
And what color is logistics? Yellow

But what color are scouts?Blue

So now that you realize this truth,tell me why a logistics suit shouldn't hack a logistics installation (all of them) faster?
Yet a scout should?

It shouldn't.
But logistics can't because 'lolreasons'.
And until logistics is given back what scouts have stolen in eWAR,logistics will always be just a stupid pack mule,with base stats that make 0 sense because it isn't compensated with by that missing eWAR.

But hey what do i know,i only put 2+2 together and got 4.

Then again see mai sig.

---

As to new equipment,i don't think we'll be getting any new models any time soon,which is why i often try to repurpose assets already in-game.

For example a AOE repair tool,using vehicle scan circle,can heal multiple allies at once.
At a decreased rate of course. Something like 50 hp/s at Pro.

Or maybe a flux RE that temporarily disables the enemies tacnet within its radius.

Or an active scrambler which,using the Gal scanner,temporarily makes false enemies appear on the opponents tacnet.

Cross would know better than I, but Scouts are very likely UP at the moment. An increase in GA Logi grade scans would render Scouts obsolete. I'm of the opinion that the GA Logi precision bonus should be toned down, or the bonus replaced with something logistics related and given to the AM Scout. The AM Scout has had no competitive function since Falloff killed passive recon, and active recon seems a much more appropriate role for a Scout than a Logi. Further, a maximum of two periodic, overpowered scans would be 100% less overpowered than 4.

If the GA Logi scan bonus were going to be replaced, what would you want in its stead?

Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of support play within Dust, and how to improve the experience and effectiveness.

When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied.

Cheers,
Cross

Reference:Nanohive Alchemy: Nanite Cluster Mysteries <-- Until I get better numbers, use this as a reference point.

EDIT: Proposed changes *WORKING DRAFT*

• 1st iteration
• 2nd iteration
• 3rd iteration<--- Feedback phase in progress, consideration of both concepts and numbers welcome Note: Undergoing updates, document will be made current after the deployment of Patch 1.9

Note: While proposed equipment changes from iteration 1 have currently been tabled discussion is on going, particularly with respects to a more scaled method of the equipment changes
Examples:

The problem is people who hate logis don't have logis that squad with them or on their team and think it's OP even though it's the most dependent and defenseless class in the game

byomessing for me if the logic gets change:)

The problem is people who hate logis don't have logis that squad with them or on their team and think it's OP even though it's the most dependent and defenseless class in the game

But seriously.

I hope CCP ignores all this 'nerf rep tool' spam.

1st it was "logis aren't repping enough,they're shooting too much,nerf them!"

2nd (now) it's "logis are repping too much,they're not shooting enough,nerf them!"

Well,that's the problem.

First you have to define logistics.
I always thought logistics were techsperts.

Sacrificing physical force (eHP speed and stamina),for the ability to be the best at external support (think stereotype nerd,weak physically,strong mentally),multiplying the force presented by other units.

Which would mean logistics should have the best eWAR (range and precision),and hacking right?
While scouts would have the best dampening.(they are described as being sneaky and compact,not eWAR based)

Well there's the problem.
Logistics isn't good at eWAR,and logistics is only moderately faster at hacking.

Logistics is currently good at only 1 thing,being an equipment mule,and while worth it in theory that in no way aids in survival like eWAR would.

So until CCP decides to give logistics a defined survival mechanism through methods that are already sacrificed for, pondering equipment to attach to the broken suit is a bad idea,as it allows for distraction from the #1 problem,the suit itself.

Think assault level buff in regards to eWAR and external support for logistics,that would do it.
And seeing as logistics and assaults are supposed to make up the bulk of all suits in combat,while scouts are supposed to be niche,it makes sense to buff them in a similar fashion.

But as to your questions.
I have no idea.

TBH i'm picturing different shapes,but essentially the same functions (like rifles).
But this is only because CCP hasn't even given us an inch in regards to the possibility.

I do however see a scanlink,you place it,you press the fire button it sends out a 'ping' and scans.
Limited amount carried,limited amount of scans,refilled at the supply depot.