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CPM input request: Logistics & Support.

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Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 979	Posted - 2014.08.12 12:32:00 - [1] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of support play within Dust, and how to improve the experience and effectiveness. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross Logistics Mk.0 Injectors: WP as incentive is nice,but if a MLT frame can walk up and tap O to negate your Pro needle then the problem still remains. Doesn't really help shield tankers. -Need a needle priority system that uses the HIGHEST level needle when reviving. -Possibly reduce the amount of armor refilled and give a comperable amount of shields instead. Rep tool: Neon "kill me" sign. Can't outrep a MLT weapon with a Pro rep tool. Places logistics firmly on the frontlines of combat with its insanely short reach. Provides 0 incentive other than WP farming. Allies don't know they're being repaired. Doesn't really help shield tankers. -Remove the rep tool line to aid in logistics survival,leave the lock on boxes. -Give damage resistance while using (something like 65% to all damage) -Increase range by dramatic amounts for the logistics class. -Return the rep tool glow,but have it work like hit detection so an ally can see which side they are being repaired from -Negate shield recharge delays while used on allies,or recharge 25% of shields per hp/s restored. (eg sixkin 88 hp/s so 25% of 88) possibly reduce armor repair rate to compensate. Presto a rep tool that helps shield and armor. Hives - Any- Too easily destroyed by any stray explosions. Low carrying capacity. Low refilling amounts. (nanites) Annoying when a MLT frame stands on top throwing grenades at no one to use them faster. -Explosive resistance increase so it actually takes effort to destroy them. -+1 carried per level logistics bonus -Increased nanites -or- burst variants that refill faster but have lower nanites (think compact nanohives). -Disable grenades being refilled Scanners: Dat cooldown. -Nuff' said Uplinks: Actually alright R.E.s: The description says volitile chemicals yet i see scouts throw them from hights taller than their own suit,and sling them as if they are throwing frisbees. Are considered equipment yet can be refilled at nanohives. -Have them explode killing only the thrower if dropped from too high a height or slung with too much momentum -Disable refilling from hives Logistics suits: 30 more eHP than a scout Slower than heavier tanked mediums Bigger hitbox despite having less eHP Doesn't have the best regen despite having less eHP Doesn't have the best eHP despite its speed. When run as a support unit it costs easily 2x as much with 1/2 the survival Since logistics has more in common with scouts (ewar,equipment) logistics should be made to mimic them. -Keep the low eHP but in exchange give speed/stamina,regen amount and speed,and a smaller hitbox. This way it establishes a theme,support is fast and evasive,while killing is strong and durable. -Cut equipment costs by 50% minimal Based on personal experience,i would prefer to be harder to hit with better regen than have higher eHP. eHP just makes it too tempting to fight instead of support. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 983	Posted - 2014.08.12 23:57:00 - [2] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Meee One wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of support play within Dust, and how to improve the experience and effectiveness. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross Logistics Mk.0 Injectors: WP as incentive is nice,but if a MLT frame can walk up and tap O to negate your Pro needle then the problem still remains. Doesn't really help shield tankers. -Need a needle priority system that uses the HIGHEST level needle when reviving. -Possibly reduce the amount of armor refilled and give a comperable amount of shields instead. Rep tool: Neon "kill me" sign. Can't outrep a MLT weapon with a Pro rep tool. Places logistics firmly on the frontlines of combat with its insanely short reach. Provides 0 incentive other than WP farming. Allies don't know they're being repaired. Doesn't really help shield tankers. -Remove the rep tool line to aid in logistics survival,leave the lock on boxes. -Give damage resistance while using (something like 65% to all damage) -Increase range by dramatic amounts for the logistics class. -Return the rep tool glow,but have it work like hit detection so an ally can see which side they are being repaired from -Negate shield recharge delays while used on allies,or recharge 25% of shields per hp/s restored. (eg sixkin 88 hp/s so 25% of 88) possibly reduce armor repair rate to compensate. Presto a rep tool that helps shield and armor. Hives - Any- Too easily destroyed by any stray explosions. Low carrying capacity. Low refilling amounts. (nanites) Annoying when a MLT frame stands on top throwing grenades at no one to use them faster. -Explosive resistance increase so it actually takes effort to destroy them. -+1 carried per level logistics bonus -Increased nanites -or- burst variants that refill faster but have lower nanites (think compact nanohives). -Disable grenades being refilled Scanners: Dat cooldown. -Nuff' said Uplinks: Actually alright R.E.s: The description says volitile chemicals yet i see scouts throw them from hights taller than their own suit,and sling them as if they are throwing frisbees. Are considered equipment yet can be refilled at nanohives. -Have them explode killing only the thrower if dropped from too high a height or slung with too much momentum -Disable refilling from hives Logistics suits: 30 more eHP than a scout Slower than heavier tanked mediums Bigger hitbox despite having less eHP Doesn't have the best regen despite having less eHP Doesn't have the best eHP despite its speed. When run as a support unit it costs easily 2x as much with 1/2 the survival Since logistics has more in common with scouts (ewar,equipment) logistics should be made to mimic them. -Keep the low eHP but in exchange give speed/stamina,regen amount and speed,and a smaller hitbox. This way it establishes a theme,support is fast and evasive,while killing is strong and durable. -Cut equipment costs by 50% minimal Based on personal experience,i would prefer to be harder to hit with better regen than have higher eHP. eHP just makes it too tempting to fight instead of support. i disagree with your injector rant.. in charlie(or was it delta) they are getting changed.. pro get more WP as standard/mil get less.. OH and lets not forget Pro also Rep80%+ of the persons armor Have you tried using one? I have mine ready,run up to a downed ally,press R1. A blueberry runs up with a garbage needle,presses O. Negates my Pro needle,and usually the newly revived ally gets gunned down immediately. Experienced it countless times. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 984	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:14:00 - [3] - Quote Bishop Harcourt wrote: Howdy Ya'll, Proto Minmatar logibro here. I had an idea based on what I perceived each races combat philosophy to be. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Amar: Mid range, slow moving continuous firefights. Give the (it hurts to type this) repp tool bonus that the Minlogi has to them. It never made much sense to give it to the logi with the lowest health and have them in the front lines. It would be better served on the most combat oriented Logistics suit, paired with the Sentinel with the highest armor HP. They would be a terror on the battlefield. Caldari: Long ranged, sustained engagements Keep the bonus to nanite injectors. Also the one to ammo nanohives, but add increase amount carried buy 1 per lvl. This would help when setting up forward and defensive positions. It will also allow for the Calogi to move with the battle as the situation dictates. Gallente: Short range, quick CQ brawlers I always thought the Galogi bonus was a little weak(the fact that its tied to the scanner, not the bonus itself), so I suggest also giving them the Calogi bonus to Armor Repair nano-hives. Give them this, but not the +1 per. This would help get Federation soldiers back in the fight faster after a brush up as well as allowing the them to know weather a counter offensive was inbound. Minmatar: Quick, hit and run Guerrilla warfare While the repper bonus is awesome, giving it to the Amlogi is (IMO) the best thing to do. So what about the Minlogi? Give them a minor(very minor I.E +1% damage per lvl) bonus to remotes/proxies and also the Amlogi's droplink bonus. Now before True starts with the "the droplinks are Amar tech" jabba wabba, hear me out. The Minmatar are about speed. Hit them hard, fast, and bug out. The bonuses I described would best fit their guerrilla tactic style of play. Setting an ambush on a supply convoy with proxie's, RE's in and around the road, with droplinks set in strategic locations. Then spawning in just as the frist proxy's blow. That to me sounds very Matari. So you other logi's mull it over and let me know. No,for very obvious reasons any true support logistics would understand. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 984	Posted - 2014.08.13 00:39:00 - [4] - Quote Straight up damage resistance would be OP. Instead explain it as a 'switch function' mode. While holding a weapon logistics would be in offense mode,0 damage reduction+0 bonuses. While holding/using an equipment logistics would be in defense mode,high damage reduction + speed/stamina boost + high regen + smaller hitbox This way logistics could outstrafe/regen scouts while using equipment (of the non explosive variety),but be worse than assaults using weapons. Logistics just became the #1 in survival using equipment. EDIT:If this is used,also remove the requirement for logistics to have a weapon. Make the weapon slot an optional equipment slot. This would effectively increase logistics equipment capacity by +1. And true support logistics would survive to use all of them. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 988	Posted - 2014.08.13 13:32:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Due to circumstances largely out of my control, solo usually. I am speaking more from a strategic, team level. I dont really care if I get caught by a smart enemy squad and repeatedly killed. So that has no bearing on the conversation. By smart I mean full support and focused fire, reps, whatever. When I find triage hive heroes I swap to mass drivers and f**k them up. I do not count "link lemmings" as smart squads even if they can be overwhelming fast. As far as more tactical? I would leave the number of links allowed to remain static. However I would make it so only 2 can be active at once. When one link is destroyed the next link in line goes hot. That way you cannot omni-vector an attack. You must still utilize tactics and map control. Alternately revert all drop uplinks to squad-only. The game should be about team tactics and reward teamwork, not cater to solo, wannabe Rambo pubstars. Would these changes likely hose me, the habitually solo player? Yes. Do I care? No. I'm not joining your pubbie squads of tryhards who care about these matches as anything more than personal entertainment and gank opportunities. But since that is my choice I am copacetic not receiving the same advantages of an organized squad. I hate it when people on these forums use the words 'tactics' or tactical' because it ALWAYS means "lets make support even harder to do by limiting options even FURTHER". And your post sums up to exactly that. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 988	Posted - 2014.08.13 13:41:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Were I to change any logi bonus I would give the armor rep bonus to the gallente, given that rep speed has always been a gallente thing. I would give minmatar the scan bonus for two reasons. 1: Target painters, which scanners are the closest thing to. Target painters are traditionally minnie ewar. 2: skirmish tactics. Being a fast attack is all well and good but fast, fragile groups that blindly dive on enemy positions die by the numbers. Intel makes fast attack viable. Personally I would give logis a passive Area recovery buff as a role bonus. Gallente logi: provides allied dropsuits +25% onboard repair when within 20m. This would be a bonus to your low slot reps. Not your rep tool. Minmatar: +25% reduction in shied recharge delay and depleted delay. Within 20m Caldari: +25% shield regen per second. After recharge delay ends. Within 20m Amarr: +10% damage resistance to armor in 20m Bonuses are not stackable. Bonus priority goes to matching suit class. So if you have a cal logi and amarr logi in range if you are in a gal/amarr suit the amarr logi bonus applies. Matching race to race as priority. Give people a reason to use racial doctrines FTFY +1 sort of.. Your suggestion about bonus swapping is garbage. AOE bonuses are a good idea,as long as it isn't restricted to being in a squad. I made the ranges shorter so people are forced to earn them by being close enough to take a bullet for them,not just leech and let the logi die with no support. You give support you get support,give and take. Also,stop trying to make your bad ideas seem good by slipping the word 'tactical' in them,you clearly don't understand what it means. EDIT:about the AOE bonuses...you have some major holes... For example,around a shield based suit which bonuses apply? Min for speed or Cal for amount? Or an armor based suit? Gal for reps or Amarr for damage resistance? Would these bonuses apply to logis? What if 2 Min logis team up for super regen and go all killer bee? Or bricking Gal? Or bricking Cal with Complex regs? Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 989	Posted - 2014.08.14 06:46:00 - [7] - Quote POST charlie update: Logis are still killed first,even if a rep scout is 2 feet from them,the scout will be ignored and if the logi tries to flee they get hunted mercilessly.(Experienced over 10 times today) Logis are officially the LEAST surviving suits in the game,being unable to hide,regen damage,tank damage,or even run away. Once a logi is seen they're dead,usually by a suit that costs 1/6th of theirs or even free. Logis have officially been teathered to heavies,seeing as assaults are too fast for logis to render active support,scouts don't need support.And logis can usually only match a heavies pace even though they are 30eHP from scouts. Walking while using a rep tool...nuff said. Logis are too easily killed,by identification,general stray shots. Low eHP means harder to hit,but not in logis case. Aiming down sights suit information guarantees logis die first,every time. Equipment costs are too insane to consecutively deploy as a support logi,considering scouts have a better survival rating. To sum up,logis that stay logis during this time of hardship are true logis.(Or have major corp backing) The simplest indirect buff logis could receive would be a reduction to equipment costs (50-75%). The one thing that kills support logis the most isn't shotgun scouts,or even HMG heavies,it's the costs of trying to be a pure support player. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 991	Posted - 2014.08.15 03:46:00 - [8] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: It's a good job that the reduction in logi speed didn't go through in HF Charlie then. I played a few matches last night ( not as a logi ) and didn't see many logi at all. I played 5 matches, all in skirmish so maybe it's not the best place to look. Also wasn't seeing as many heavy frames on the field so that may reduce the number of logi's as well. Not sure whether people are seeing this in all game modes. Best place to look would be ambush or domination. I may log on later and check it out. Seems that most people are trying new shinies atm. Absolutely the equipment costs should come down but that has a positive effect for everyone. A slight increase in base movement speed probably wouldn't go amiss anyway, maybe more so now the battlefield got a little more fluid. To be honest we have got to give HF Charlie time to bed in , as I stated in the original HF C discussion, before we consider any logi changes. Yes equipment costs going down would benefit everyone. But it would MAJORLY benefit logis who run 3 on their suit. Currently logis must choose between survival and support,and most pick survival because it's cheaper. This is the only game i've ever played where support is punished so heavily in EVERYTHING they do. "Wanna run support? It'll cost ya an arm,a leg,oh and you'll be the easiest killed in the game. But hey you can have more equipment,who cares if you can't survive to use it all...everyone loves knowing regardless of which suit they pick they have a guaranteed victim." "So why not support?" Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 992	Posted - 2014.08.15 04:24:00 - [9] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: I hadn't realised that, but I agree. Combat fits only have to care about proto weapons hitting their wallet, of which generally only one costs a lot. logistics suits have the same problem, magnified three- or four-fold. Just 4 restocks on my proto hives is about 117k isk. 24k for a proto rep tool I believe. 7k for an injector which is ok I believe, saves as many lives as I want which is what its all about for me, when I logi. Going off it these days, I find myself only doing it when I have to baby sit nubs or want to spectate (rep slave). Core focused is 35k. Any Pro hives 22k and up. Any Pro uplinks 22k and up. Any Pro scanners 22k and up. So the avg Pro logi carries 4 equipment. Any combination of the 4 equipment is freaking expensive. And those aren't the special versions like the triage hives,i think those are nearly 30k for 3 of them, that's 10k per hive (which CCP made easier to be destroyed btw). 1-1.5k grenade = loss of a 10k investment. I could understand the costs if they increased your safety,but any logi besides Min has to stay at 7.5m (11m for Min) to use the most expensive repair tool the core focused,and yet the blasted thing can't even out repair a MLT RR. Running ADV is costly too as any support logi tries to maximise their equipment without gimping themselves to badly. Put that all together with the low base stats that specialise in neither eHP (like a heavy),or speed/health regen and evasion (like a scout). You have a roll of very expensive tissue paper carrying other rolls of very expensive tissue paper. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 994	Posted - 2014.08.15 11:08:00 - [10] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Personally I think there is no need to change anything. I've been a Min Logi since 1.2 and was my first role. I play as such for 70% of squad games. I can fit great equipment, decent health (with good shields too) and a respectable weapon. And I'm certainly not helpless. With a good team who understands your limitations and appreciates the support we give we don't need to be directly in the line of fire, so weapons and health are not a priority, especially since we have such an impact on a game by equipment - which doesn't have to be used directly. I don't see how we can need any more Equipment on the other hand does need revisiting. And even then I'd say only the injector is in dire need of adjustment. For starters take it off the medic starter fits. Its not a medic if it can't ensure its team is combat effective. Give them rep tools instead. Then tier the WP for better needles. Cus most of the playerbase is selfish and want WP so would rather use a rusty needle and rep tool. After that think about only awarding WP to the user after a successful revive. Its not a revive if you dive out of cover to Rambo into fire and try picking up a teammate for +60 wp (and award +100 to the enemy, but people forget that part -_- ) I'm going to try to say this in the nicest way possible... A single logistics should require a whole team to keep them alive? Requiring even a squad is asking too much. If everyone is guarding the logi,who then would take the objectives? Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 994	Posted - 2014.08.15 17:05:00 - [11] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: I'd like to see the reintroduction of the shield rep tool. I was thinking maybe it could work like the "chain heal" in WoW. It hits the main target for 100%, the most damaged person in range of the first target by 50% and the next most damaged person in range of the second person by 25% of the original heal. Alternatively it could work as an AoE heal. Both of those may be bad ideas (there could be major flaws I haven't considered) and perhaps just having shield remote repair use the same mechanics as remote armor repair is the way to go. I mentioned those ideas because it would be cool if there were unique behaviors for shield vs. armor repair. WPs would have to be different though (perhaps scaled to the amount healed). These ideas may not even be hotfixable though. Getting more parity between shields and armor is a good thing. I'd like to see the bonuses change for remote reps. I'd like to see Amarr/Gallente get bonuses to armor repair and Minmatar/Caldari get bonuses to shield repair. Perhaps Amarr/Caldari get a bonus to repair amount and Minmatar/Gallente get a repair range bonus to their respective shield/armor rep tools (or flip them around in a different combination). These bonuses would be in addition to the existing bonuses. Of course that leaves the Minmatar short a bonus, so we'd have to come up with an additional one for them. You could go with the old hacking bonus, but that role makes more sense on the scout (IMO). Perhaps the injectors on Minmatar Logi suits could also restore a percent of shields too? Perhaps 10%/level? I'm just brainstorming/spitballing. Logistics would be much more interesting if we had shields and armor repair, and each race had a different approach to it. As someone who occasionally runs Amarr Logi, I'm pretty indifferent to the sidearm question. I can appreciate both perspectives, and there is a logic to making all suits within a given class have more symmetry with less exceptions. I can also see how a suit bonused for uplinks should be more combat oriented. If we went in the direction I proposed of shields/armor reps, the Amarr Logi sidearm (snowflake argument) becomes much less compelling though. AOE rep tool,awesome idea. Hacking should be a logi speciality,seeing as logis are the MASTER support class,and support is everything BUT combat. Scouts on the other hand should be the best STEALTH hackers,not the fastest. When it comes to support, other classes shouldn't be able to beat logistics,so when CCP bowed down to scouts in charlie regarding codebreakers they spat in logistics faces AGAIN. It's like they're saying "sure you're MASTER support,but we're going to have another class beat you in a support action." Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 995	Posted - 2014.08.16 22:30:00 - [12] - Quote While you're looking at the logistics suits.... Fix the Min logis stats. It has more armor than shields and it's supposed to be a shield based race. It has 90 shields and 150 armor. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1000	Posted - 2014.08.20 02:56:00 - [13] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Cross Atu wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Still seeking input on this topic, and planing to roll up my sleeves for the reading catch up here after my weekend out of town. What are your takeaways so far? I am currently working with my SMB to compile notes on that for discussion with the rest of the CPM and then move toward formulation for something to push to CCP. Once we have some actual action times for upcoming hotfix deployment I'll be posting here what that update (or more likely a link to it). Cheers, Cross It's good to see threads like this come up, so yeah thnx for taking the time to try and make a difference. Are CCP being receptive towards things like this? Also It would be good if we could get a Dev response on how they see logi's on the battlefield. Good stuff anyway. Read any posts Rattatai has commented on... They all sum up to a TL;DR of "Logis should be slow and easily killed,while being unable to defend themselves and costs staying the same,because screw logis i run assault" Seriously,that's the exact meaning behind ANYTHING he posts about logistics. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1000	Posted - 2014.08.21 10:08:00 - [14] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Btw I'd like to see some more posts in this thread about the support experience rather than just how to change the logistics suit to be better. I feel like I'm one of very few people who actually would like to better the experience of the support player rather than arguing about suit stats. Support experience from the view of a support logi,equipment focused: Rep tool -Hard to get a lock -Frequently point right at injured allies and the tool refuses to lock on,this then forces you to release the fire button,sit through the 'powering down and withdrawal' animation while your ally dies right in front of you -Forces you to walk,and in such a terribly balanced suit,the person you're repping often outruns you by walking -0 incentive besides Wp,leaves you defenseless -When switching to your weapon,you are required to sit through the 'powering down and withdrawal' animation,only after the animation is finished are you permitted to defend yourself (a good 1-2 seconds,yet scouts can shoot instantly from being cloaked) -Insanely expensive for 'better' variants yet provides 0 additional advantages to it's user,it actually makes its weaknesses more profound. (range) Nanite injector: -Invest SP to get to Pro,and run to a downed ally just to get cut off by a garbage needle -Paralyzes you on top of an ally (leap frog effect) -Leaves you vulnerable (Notice a trend?) -Makes you run down a hill,because 'lolragdoll' won't let you see where their invisible revive point is Hives: -As soon as one goes down enemies 'lolspam' grenades -Usually pop before refilling a single ally -Insanely expensive for the 'better' variants,yet they pop just as easily -Grenade/RE spam depletes them almost instantly removing any chance for any more allies to get ammo. REs: -A luxury for a true support logi,abused by scouts -Can be thrown huge distances,despite the description saying the chemicals are volitile. -You can expect as a logi, that when an RE goes off you'll be the only one targeted,or the only one to be killed scouts heavies and even assault can stand almost on the dead center and survive,while a logi can be 2m away from an REs maximum radius and still be killed by it Scanners: -With scanners being nerfed everyone thought wall hack days were over,but were wrong,all CCP did was nerf the logistics class (for the 4th time in a row) and give what used to be logistics to scouts instead. Uplinks: -Meh Logistics suits: -I've learned the hard way nothing beats eHP -Tried other modules like kincats and cardiac regs,horrible result,it's a slow scout (low eHP) thats as easy to shoot as a heavy. -I would like to run something besides eHP modules,but my base speed is horrible,and i can't even outrun basic mediums even if i could i unlike a scout i would still be as big as a heavy. -Lose lose all the way around,logistics is forced to eHP tank because it literally can't do anything else and expect to survive long enough to do its job. -Personal experience with odd hitbox happenings: I have been killed by bullets i watch fly right by me. I can literally look at their side as they fly by,and i'll still be killed by them. Sidenote:I see you're trying to blow off and deflect from any relevant suit buffs to logistics. You can better the support experience dramatically by fixing the suits first. Trying to call it an 'arguement' is a lowbrow strategy trying to get off the subject of buffs for logistics,which are severely needed.Go somewhere else with your 'subterfuge'. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1002	Posted - 2014.08.22 06:23:00 - [15] - Quote Double post Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1002	Posted - 2014.08.22 06:25:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: You also have to be careful to avoid over homogenizing the Logistics as well though. Even with some racial focus, if they all get +3% to all equipment but a +5% to their racial equipment...well then they don't feel very unique anymore. That being said I think Logistics do need more options, while still maintaining strong individuality. One suggestion I've made in the past is to the give all Logistics the Repair Tool Bonus, and then replace the Minmatar bonus with something like Remotes/Proxy mines. Because Explosions. You may be even go as far as the other poster suggested and add a secondary but lesser bonus, so essentially your Proto Logi setup would look like: Repair Tool: Full Bonus Racial Equipment: Full Bonus Sub-Racial Equipment: Partial Bonus 4th Equipment: No Bonus Full suit respecs you say? It isn't CCPs fault you took those refunded points and went into the wrong suit. Lesser bonuses are fine,but full isn't. If this happens i'll want a suit respec so i can go back to Gal,where my survival rate is higher. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1002	Posted - 2014.08.22 06:49:00 - [17] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Primary: suit. Assault Secondary suit: Logistics both Gallente obviously. And this post will be full of unpopular opinions. Nanite Injector: Besides the fact that they should be Gallente I feel that Injectors should have recharge time per use. With that I feel that they should also be able to be used on yourself as well but have the effect devalued by 60% on a functioning clone, i.e. the player. Makes sense seeing as it's a canister and not a tube linked to the suit,no to the self injecting too easily abused Nanohives: The Compact Nanohive's cluster amount needs to be increased. I'm completely fine with only carrying one since it can replenish both armor and ammo. No,this would enable too much solo game play. It would effectively decrease the need of support. Active Scanners: More Variants needed. I feel that the Active scanners should come in three categories, Long range [+125m] and short angle [<60-¦], Shorter ranged [<100m] and wide angles [>90-¦], and lastly scanners in between. Besides that there is the matter of ewarfare to be looked at but that's a little bit too much to go into with a post I'd like to be relatively short. More options are always better than less,as long as the differences are made clear. Native Regen for Logistics suits: All Logistics suits should get a native repair of 2 hps and give Gallente Logistics an additional two more. 100% agree,it'll help when a logi is being shot at while repping. As for the bonuses it's already been said best by another poster: Quote: Skill Bonus. It's been 9 months of me saying this: They need to be comprehensive. The Logistics suits need to be the best at using all equipment. Not just a single one. Fire the idiot, even if it was LogiBro, that thought it was a good idea or even acceptable to have these split up. It's not even complicated. - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive maximum nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and 5% to repair amount per leveland +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and 5% to repair amount per level and +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to maximum spawn count per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and 5% to repair amount per level NO,all this will do is eradicate certain logistics. EG,Amarr with Min reps + uplinks = 0 need for any other logistics. The only way the last portion about logistics bonuses wouldn't be bad is if the current logistics bonuses were doubled. It would be fine then,because each logistics would blow the others away with its racial equipment. Sidenote for Cross:Can we get the bonuses doubled? Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1008	Posted - 2014.08.25 01:23:00 - [18] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Equipment doesn't need more HP Proto equipment just needs a lower profile. Let's reward PLACEMENT rather than spamming in open areas. By hiding your uplink well, it won't show up on scans or passives as long as you're using the best of the best...that's what I want. So,something the size of a mercs PALM. Doing 600 damage is ok... But something the size of your mercs WHOLE UPPER TORSO,being able to take that kind of damage isn't? Even taking into consideration nanos are supposed to be THE MOST ADVANCED piece of equipment on the battlefield? And people wonder why i'm so arguemenative. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1008	Posted - 2014.08.25 02:19:00 - [19] - Quote http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7113 As for a lolweapon... I focus on support not kills,so i swap as i get bored. I've recently been running the flaylock. I can make due with low eHP,but it's the speed and regen that gets me. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1010	Posted - 2014.08.25 17:31:00 - [20] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Yup, because I don't like scouts acting like logis, so please, turn my logi into a scout. Brilliant! FTFY. But seriously,what else is there? TBH i believe assaults got the wrong kind of buff (eHP). All the assault suit descriptions say they should have damage resistance. If assaults get eHP,all that's left is speed and regen. If we straight up copy assaults nothing will have improved. By making logistics more scout-like focusing on evasion and stealth it leaves open combat for the combat oriented suits,while logistics can (like scouts) work in the shadows. So,durable suits such as heavies and assaults can't hide. But frail suits like logistics and scouts can and escape.(non brick scouts that is) From personal experience i can say i've survived 10x longer when i ran to regroup as when i tried to fight. Unfortunately being slower with less eHP,and being easy to hit doesn't help with those times. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1011	Posted - 2014.08.25 17:34:00 - [21] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Ok so there have been a few ideas thrown about on how to make logi's better from More HP to resistances. So I had an idea that may work but I'm not sure whether it's possible to do within the Hotfix only phase we are running. Anyway, to aid survivability how about when a logi is acitively repping a target he gets a "feedback" armour rep. Nothing stupidly OP, maybe 1 or 2 HP/s max AND only when the rep tool is active on a target. It's not enough to save a logi from alpha damage or prolonged/sustained fire but a little extra to encourage a logi to use the rep tool. Of course it may be a crap idea but trying to think of something other than HP buff etc Also I'm not sure if this has been suggested before and sorry if I have stolen someone else's idea Idea is now open to feedback, pull it to bits, discuss or whatever. I like this to an extent, but as I said before, it will kill diversity of logi suits so only armor tanked suits would see any benefit. So keep the idea of recieving a bonus while actively repping, just make the bonus a small damage resistance to all forms of damage for shields and armor. However I think either of our versions would be difficult with only server side. Straight up 15% damage resistance for logistics using a rep tool,i like it! Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1015	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:23:00 - [22] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Ok, we now have four groups. 1) Make logis more like scouts. (We already have scouts in this game thank you.) 2) Make logis heavies. (Again, we have those, but I like it better since it fits my playstyle since I live 20-30 meters behind the front lines or depending on the situation, on the frontlines) 3) Change the equipment and/or the bonuses (getting closer, since now we are focusing on what should make a logi unique on the battle field) 4) Keep the logis in their place and nerf them further. Slayer logi, never again. (Unless Rattati and the CPMs that still play the game have all recently drunk the lead filled kool aid then slayer logis will never happen again, so stop bitching about it.) Everything parentheses is obviously opinion. Keep tossing out ideas but make sure logis wind up unique and not just(insert class) light. Notice I said "CPMs that still play the game" I would like to propose that CPMs that have logged less than 5 hours in the past 3 months get their tags removed or at least have their vote taken away until they are back up to speed and know the current situation of the game. Side note I know. About #4... I'd like to remind all posters,in the initial post about 'charlie'... CCP actually intended to nerf logistics speed (with the same 30 eHP from their racial scout) and buff assaults speed (even though more tank should mean less speed),and remove the Amarr logistics sidearm (even though they have 1 less module slot). So, IMHO i believe CCP is completely drunk on the "killer bee kool-aid". CCP clearly put 0 thought into the nerf(s),and offered 0 buffs to compensate,which shows when it comes to the logistics class they have no problem destroying them,but major problems buffing them. I would feel better about the future of logistics if the Dev in charge of them didn't run assault. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1015	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:37:00 - [23] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Seems to me that each race could have one of the two bonuses shared between all logistics suits, and the other one kept specific to that race (e.g. Minmatar logistics would keep the +5% repair amount but all logi suits would get +10%/level to repair range). Thoughts? I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. Caldari: Bonuses to range or area effect Minmatar: Bonuses to speed and recharge Amarr: Bonuses to duration and amount carried etc I don't know if we can give a bonus to EVERY equipment, but I would like to see at least 3 bonuses per dropsuit. For instance, Caldari would get longer range for repair tool, longer range for scanner, and bigger nanohive radius. Don't know about the other races, but effectively something along the lines of this. Edit: Here's my ideas for the other races (in no particular order) Minmatar (speed) -Reduced spawn time for uplinks -Faster recharge for scanners -Increased repair rate for repair tools -Increased amount refilled by nanos Amarr (endurance) -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives -Increased visible duration for scanners -Increased spawn count for uplinks -Small increase to rep tool range and rate Caldari (ranged support) -Increased range for repair tools -Longer range for scanners -Larger raidus for nanohives -More uplinks carried Gallente (direct support) -Lower precision for Scanners -Increased repair rate for Nanohives -Increased repair rate for repair tools -More uplinks deployed _______________________________________________________ I decided to give two races the repair tool bonus as there's only two ways you can increase the effectiveness of the repair tool. Uplinks are the same way, but between the two I'm guessing Gallente logistics would rather have the repair tool bonus to match their bonus to repair rate of nanohives. Those bonuses would tear the logistics class apart. It would be too complicated. Flat,but lesser bonuses would enable more freedom without being so unnecessarily restrictive. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1016	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:49:00 - [24] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd like to see a Allotek Nanohive version in the LP store that would take more than one flux to kill. Same clusters as Pro hives, but a slower refill rate? Sounds amarrian. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1016	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:46:00 - [25] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: As a Cal logi (pro) I'm better off running repper hives, uplinks and a reptool for my team to farm WP and get an OB than running regular hives. Drop a proto nano hive (ammo only) people swarm to it and you're left with 50 points tops. That's 2 uplinks spawns or 2 triage ticks. On paper the bonus is great but there really isn't any reward to run nano hives (the ammo ones) if you take the ISK cost of them into consideration and how easily they're destroyed. Like I've stated before: It bugs the hell out of me is that my logi Ck.0 is so damn slow. I have to use a CPU mod since my suit was robbed of CPU and I carry proto equipment. In the other 3 lows I NEED to have a reactive plate, cardiac reg and a kincat so I can keep up with the heavy I'm repping. So for survivability I have to rely on my shield modules like a should. Problem is that because of the pg intensive cardiac modules to keep up with the heavies (who run kincats 9/10 times) in the first place I now have to sacrifice my main form of defense aswell. Recharge and main tank, because shields have high fitting costs aswell. for me as a shield user i'd like to see (this goes btw for all logis): - more speed - increase in WP from nano hives (ammo hives) - better regen - shield reptool So the Cal and Min sentinel can stand and deliver too. Don't bring up the regen of the Cal sentinel. Because a reptool on a armor sentinel gives that one a higher rep rate than the Cal and Min rep rate with recharger or energizer modules. There should be a reptool that reps armor slow maybe 15 hp/s and bypasses the shield recharge delay for shield sentinels to benefit from in combination with their modules. my 2 ISK +1 The shield rep tool could be caldari made,and Cal logistics could get bonuses to it. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1018	Posted - 2014.08.27 16:51:00 - [26] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Again, Those bonuses were just IDEAS, I never said that they were balanced by any means or that that's how it should be set up. I just think it would be cool to have each logi focused on one type of playstyle rather than every logi getting similar bonuses. Giving every suit a bonus to repair tools would be like giving every assault a reduction in heat buildup for the scrambler rifle, or every sentinel suit a reduction to projectile damage. Just because it's the most desired/useful bonus doesn't mean every suit should get it. That said, maybe the 3-4 bonuses to logistics should be something like this: -Current bonuses to equipment (possibly slightly reduced) -2 bonuses to other equipment aside from enemy's equipment Amarr could be: -Decreased spawn time for uplinks -Increased spawn count for uplinks -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives (not as much as Caldari) -Longer visible duration for scanners (not as much as Gallente -(No bonus to repair tools because Minmatar are enemies) Minmatar could be: -Faster repair rate for repair tools -Increased range for repair tools -Increased resupply/repair rate for nanohives (not as much as Caldari) -Faster recharge time for scanners -(No bonus to uplinks because Amarr are enemies) Caldari could be: -Increased resupply/repair rate for nanohives -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives -Increased range for repair tools (not as much as Minmatar) -Increased spawn count for uplinks (not as much as Amarr) -(No bonus to scanners because Gallente are enemies) Gallente could be: -Decreased precision for scanners -Increased visible duration for scanners -Increased repair rate for repair tools (not as much as Minmatar) -Decreased spawn time for uplinks (not as much as Amarr) -(No bonus to nanohives because Caldari are enemies) Opinions? I'd like to see your idea for what the bonuses should be (bonuses towards equipment efficacy though, nothing like more nanohives being able to be carried or deployed...those kinds of bonuses would not be easily balanced) _______________________________________________________________________________ Again, maybe this idea is crazy, I'd just like to see each suit have a defined playstyle rather than every logistics class be the same with different armor/shield values Yeah, repair tools are probably the most useful tool for DIRECT SUPPORT logistics, but why do the Amarr or Caldari need to be good at playing direct support? These should be the passive support classes and should get bonuses towards a passive playstyle. Not saying each race should be one or another (they all should be capable or doing anything), but there should be a clear reason/advantage for wanting to skill into one suit and not the other. As a final side note, YES these bonuses are hotfixable because they added a grenade cpu reduction to assaults without having it pre-existing. Hotfixable things are those dealing with numbers and pre-existing content. You don't need to make a "physical" asset in order to add a bonus to a skill, because in-game it's just a value. +1 much less restraining,and much more thought out. And it would allow each logistics to remain unique. I personally was thinking in quarters. Racial logi:4/4 Racial ally:3/4 Neutral enemy:2/4 Enemy:1/4 This way any logistics of any race would still be better than...let's say...a scout using the same equipment. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1020	Posted - 2014.08.28 07:32:00 - [27] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The fastest spawns and the best rep tools? With your proposal you basically finish the job of making every logi suit but the Minmatar completely pointless and obsolete. I'm good with this. You don't want to know what I'm good with, matari. Enslaving every other race for 700 years? FTFY. I am not amused. Take this idiocity elsewhere. Every logistics is important,regardless of what the other classes say. Take a step back and look at Dust...carefully... It's effectively become logistics vs everything else. We ARE a race. We shouldn't be fighting our brethren,we need to band together. Your fellow logistics are going through this hardship with us,we are allies,let's start acting like it shall we? Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1032	Posted - 2014.08.29 05:03:00 - [28] - Quote To all the logistics in fighters...there is only one thing left for me to say to you. Ready? GÿëGû¦Gÿësç+ gtfo Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1033	Posted - 2014.08.29 05:10:00 - [29] - Quote (Gëº-ëGëª) Ok,back on track now. I'd like an update on the +1 deployable carried per level suggestion. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1044	Posted - 2014.08.31 20:52:00 - [30] - Quote To the +1 uplink deployable. No,it would only be abused. Durable? Yes Deployable? No Lv5 to get into logistics,then insane SP costs for gear? Lolno In traditional gaming,the gear that are the hardest to get into offers the greatest advantages with the least drawbacks. Lv5 would imply that logistics: -Has the best survivability of all frames. -The best killing potential of all frames. It's simple logic that is pushed in every game ever: -More investment = more reward If anything,it should be cheaper. Lv2 for logistics lv3 for assault. This would subconsciously tell players assaults survive longer and kill better. And it would be true. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1046	Posted - 2014.09.01 03:11:00 - [31] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I am proto Amarr Logi / Scout / Sentinel / Assault The state of "support roles" in Dust is terrible. My scout is 10x better for uplinks compared to my logi. This is because my scout is able to see far better run faster and carry a just as useful number of uplinks. This is the case for a couple of reasons: The bonus does not apply after switching suits (I am actually okay with this as it is fair to the guys running rep tools or scanners) I only get a bonus to uplinks which makes my proto suit nothing more than a lag bomb waiting to happen Fitting a full set of proto uplinks ensures I will be very squishy. My proposal for logis just a couple of days ago was this: As a ROLE bonus logis receive an efficiency bonus to all support equipment similar to the current racial bonuses as well as a bonus to the nanite injector. As a RACIAL bonus 5% per level reduction of cpu/pg to the racial equipment. Obviously this would accompany an increase in pg/cpu of all of the equipment involved. What you get out of this: If you want to run multiple types of equipment or run a large number of passive equipment you need to specialize into your primary type to make room for the equipment not made for your suit. If a non logistics suit wants to carry their own ammo for example they are penalized. People that run multiple logi roles are rewarded for their extra work and not forced into choosing which to make better. You again... So,by forcing logis into choosing which equipment to make better... It prevents logis from being forced into choosing which equipment to make better... Lolwut? That's like saying "you can save your right hand from being sawed off" "You just have to saw your right hand off". Mind = Blown Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1054	Posted - 2014.09.01 18:56:00 - [32] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Meee One wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I am proto Amarr Logi / Scout / Sentinel / Assault The state of "support roles" in Dust is terrible. My scout is 10x better for uplinks compared to my logi. This is because my scout is able to see far better run faster and carry a just as useful number of uplinks. This is the case for a couple of reasons: The bonus does not apply after switching suits (I am actually okay with this as it is fair to the guys running rep tools or scanners) I only get a bonus to uplinks which makes my proto suit nothing more than a lag bomb waiting to happen Fitting a full set of proto uplinks ensures I will be very squishy. My proposal for logis just a couple of days ago was this: As a ROLE bonus logis receive an efficiency bonus to all support equipment similar to the current racial bonuses as well as a bonus to the nanite injector. As a RACIAL bonus 5% per level reduction of cpu/pg to the racial equipment. Obviously this would accompany an increase in pg/cpu of all of the equipment involved. What you get out of this: If you want to run multiple types of equipment or run a large number of passive equipment you need to specialize into your primary type to make room for the equipment not made for your suit. If a non logistics suit wants to carry their own ammo for example they are penalized. People that run multiple logi roles are rewarded for their extra work and not forced into choosing which to make better. You again... So,by forcing logis into choosing which equipment to make better... It prevents logis from being forced into choosing which equipment to make better... Lolwut? That's like saying "you can save your right hand from being sawed off" "You just have to saw your right hand off". Mind = Blown Yes me again. They are not being forced into making one piece of equipment better. They are being presented with the ability to run multiple roles OR more equipment once they have specialized a suit. The concept is not that complicated. Lets see your proposal. You must have just gotten to this thread... The answer is simple. Improve logistics abilities with equipment,don't nerf other suits....except scouts....dem 2 equipment slots allow for RE + nano abuse.... Quarters: +1 deployable carried per level Racial logistics:4/4 -or- 100% bonuses Racial ally: 3/4 -or- 75% bonuses Neutral enemy:2/4 -or- 50% bonuses Enemy: 1/4 -or- 25% bonuses Take each bonus and lower it and apply it to each suit,this way each logistics is better with an equipment than any scout. And you (with these changes),unlike a scout,can carry more allowing you to more easily re-inforce the frontlines. TBH,Uplinks are a very scouty thing to carry IMHO. You as an amarr logistics approach with the group throwing down links that allow the group to quickly replenish its lost ranks. While the scout,being sneakier and faster uses the destraction the main group is causing to slip by and drop a link. Result: -2 angles of attack created just in case one is routed This is synergy,both benefit from each others actions. It's the RE + nano "scouts" that are the real problem. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1061	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:49:00 - [33] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: A lot of my experience comes from a support role in general. I was a support logi since closed beta up until 9/19 when I switched over to the scout role. I don't have much current experience in the logi role, but all those sp spent into support items remains. I understand that support logi should have the best equipment offerings. But that shouldn't make those EQ useless to other suits. Mostly that relates to uplinks. They really aren't useful until you hit level 4 links. They need better variety, I would fit uplinks that can spawn faster but had limited uses. But most of the links are the same across the meta levels. Repair tools are in a nice spot. Having an installation repair tool back would be nice. I don't know why they took out the axis. Especially since they have now buffed installations it could be more useful. Repair tools need a better lock on mechanic. It's frustrating to lose locks when a blueberry runs in front of you. Would be nice if you could designate your targets. Either through a mini game mechanic where you hold r2 until a symbol pops up, or by the "squad leader menu" that's specific for logi. People saying repair tools aren't strong enough must not be using the core focused. That thing turns on god mode and the flux variants allow you reach out and touch even scouts. Lack of any shield repping mod Is still frustrating. It continues to reiterate that armor tanking is better. I remember using the logi lav to shield rep people.....it was awesome. The tools are there ccp just removed them. Shield reppers could have cool downs, so they have wave of opportunity, Logi don't need huge tanks. I think it would be relevant if logi got similar bonuses as sentinels. So they had better "resistance" to damage, that way it's not a straight HP buff. I logi just fine from a cal scout stacked with shield and armor and that only hits about 600 total hp. It's a hard line to draw and still keep slayers out of the class. That said, equipment spam still needs fixed. People shouldn't be able to spam as much EQ. Especially near supply depots. There should be a radius around a depot where you can't drop anything, Oh and depots should replace EQs. It's just silly to swap in and out of suits to get more hives. Alot of times i drop a single hive near a depot because its refilling speed is so slow. But if the refilling speed was buffed i could agree. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1061	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:54:00 - [34] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of support play within Dust, and how to improve the experience and effectiveness. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I take it all logistics will be looked at separately eventually (When is that by the way? Wasn't it slated for delta alongside commandos?) Aside from that it looks pretty okay. CCP Rattati wrote: Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity, Scouts, Commandos, Logistics From this i take it there is no necessity to look at the logi/support role in Dust. As 'necessity' deems it ok, that is despite the number of issues raised here in this thread and in others over the last year. Is it that none of these issues can be resolved via hotfixes ? Stats can be changed via hotfix,so can bonuses. Remember charlie? Assaults got eHP,slots,and a new bonus to grenade fitting. "Necessity" when it's used as he has in that sentence means "we know the problems we just don't care,we like assaults more". So yes,in a single hotfix, CCP can easily buff logistics. At this point they are simply refusing to. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1070	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:11:00 - [35] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Meee One wrote: Stats can be changed via hotfix,so can bonuses. Remember charlie? Assaults got eHP,slots,and a new bonus to grenade fitting. "Necessity" when it's used as he has in that sentence means "we know the problems we just don't care,we like assaults more". So yes,in a single hotfix, CCP can easily buff logistics. At this point they are simply refusing to. Incremental changes. Don't cry because you're not first in line. Lol 'first in line'. Logistics was straight up ignored or even nerfed the last few "updates". EVERY suit BUT logistics has gotten buffed. It IS logistics turn. Stop trying to act mature and actually be mature for a change. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1071	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:51:00 - [36] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Man, you guys got all bent up about spam and spam solutions when I stated and have restated that the raising of SP cost to enter Logistics would have a peripheral, ie. in addition to, benefit in limiting spam. Go back and read the first couple of pages of this thread and the countless other thread posted about buffing Logi stats. Pay close attention to the critisisms, to the posters talking about useless logis, spamming logis, WP whoring logis and how we don't desrve to be on equal footing in the battlefield because of those poor examples of logis behave. This idea is to address THAT. John Demonsbane wrote: I gotta go with Adam of Eve here. Not that el operators sentiment is wrong, but I really don't think the proposal will have the desired effect. Like i said earlier, I think what you will end up doing is adding a barrier to new players who night want to play logistics without discouraging spammers. The key question is this: What about unlocking logi suits at level 5 prevents someone from simply skilling to level 3 in uplinks. making two scout fits with different combinations of links, and then simply dropping 5-6 uplinks before swapping out to their go-to brick tanked slayer scout fit? (The correct answer is nothing) DUDE. Your "counter-argument" PROVES MY CONCEPT. The spammer, who wants to spam NOT spend, instead of grabbing an easily accessible logi frame of his choice, instead grabs a scout suit. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, LOGI SPAM DETERRED. The spammer now spams 2/3 the equip he would have, the spammed equipment is 0 bonused since it came off a scout and not a logi, and ultimately he likely receives fewer WP for his spamming effort since his equip spammed is lower quality and quantity than if he'd done it from a logi frame. And maybe, just maybe when spammer finds his spam rewards reduced he'll figure some sort of more worthwhile method of getting WP (like maybe hacking something?) and transition away from cheap spam tactics and into more relevant in-battle behaviour. And again, over and over, limiting equipment spamming is only ONE possible, partial benefit. Will newbros look at it and shake their heads? Sure. But if they're serious about coming logi then it won't really matter. The SERIOUS will still join. And the posers will find other pastures. Serious question here... Are you blind? I mean seriously. Any time anyone on these forums talks about equipment they always equate it with logistics. In GD someone posted a video about a MLT frame spamming a MLT needle,then in their post said: "we need a way to punish careless logis". Even though logistics had nothing to do with it. Logistics has a bad stigma for no other reason than they're logistics. You preventing people from using logistics won't change that. Scouts will spam links and logistics will be blamed. Scouts will spam hives and logistics will be blamed. Logistics still will be blamed for the woes of lag even if there is only 1 on the field. I personally went into a match and was literally the only logistics,the match lagged badly and i received hate mail for eq spam(from enemies and allies), even though my X-3 quantums (only 2 deployed) couldn't have done it. I got that mail simply because my corp name had logistics in it. TL;DR people hate logistics because there has never been a pure support role in a FPS before and it scares them. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1072	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:08:00 - [37] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Name me a suit outside logistics that has not been altered since Rattati came along. Only one I can think of is commandos, and I don't count the color change. It's funny how pokey said "incremental changes". He must have forgotten the 150 eHP,extra slots,and grenade bonus assaults just got. None of that is "incremental",when combined it's actually quite extreme. Yet logistics must wait for these "incremental changes"? Lol. Truth is exposed,logistics isn't respected enough to receive the same kind of attention. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1072	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:34:00 - [38] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Meee One wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Name me a suit outside logistics that has not been altered since Rattati came along. Only one I can think of is commandos, and I don't count the color change. It's funny how pokey said "incremental changes". He must have forgotten the 150 eHP,extra slots,and grenade bonus assaults just got. None of that is "incremental",when combined it's actually quite extreme. Yet logistics must wait for these "incremental changes"? Lol. Truth is exposed,logistics isn't respected enough to receive the same kind of attention. So lets earn some respect. Lets regulate our class and limit abusive access and watch our reputation change for the positive. Ain't no control greater than Self-Control. Oh you and your misguided concepts. It wasn't the noobs that abused logistics,it was the vets. You know the ones that had lv 5 core skills like armor and shielding. The same ones that immediately skilled lv5 into scouts the day they came out. Increasing costs will ensure no new logistics,ever. But the FOTM vets won't have been effected. You're idea is as bad as removing class reps because lollogistics is surviving too long. And about "self-control" i have to restrain myself every day so i don't stack plates to be equal to basics. I would love to use biotics,but with my slower speed + low eHP plus needing to be 20m from the frontlines... Minassaults outrunning me with 2x my eHP... You see? Logistics is the one class that has no options but to use all their slots to stack eHP,because of all their flaws. Logistics can't run,hide,tank,rep tank... And yet rattatai is "intent on ending brick tanking". If logistics isn't buffed beforehand the entire class is screwed. But who cares amirite? Support shouldn't survive a single smg bullet let alone a CR burst. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1072	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:46:00 - [39] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Notice I said "CPMs that still play the game" I would like to propose that CPMs that have logged less than 5 hours in the past 3 months get their tags removed or at least have their vote taken away until they are back up to speed and know the current situation of the game. Side note I know. CPM does much more in the vein of gathering feedback than anything, while yes we do discuss things internally it is not really as if CCP puts ideas in front of the CPM and we vote them up or down, that's simply not how the process works. We are more of a conduit than a legislative body or something of that ilk. Just clarifying that, now back to reading through the thread again Cheers, Cross I just read: "We're free slave labor". But i don't blame you for CCP being obtuse about logistics. After hearing your personal opinions,i believe you are doing your best within the restraints you are given. And for that i say thanks Cross. o7 Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:00:00 - [40] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Meee One wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Meee One wrote: Stats can be changed via hotfix,so can bonuses. Remember charlie? Assaults got eHP,slots,and a new bonus to grenade fitting. "Necessity" when it's used as he has in that sentence means "we know the problems we just don't care,we like assaults more". So yes,in a single hotfix, CCP can easily buff logistics. At this point they are simply refusing to. Incremental changes. Don't cry because you're not first in line. Lol 'first in line'. Logistics was straight up ignored or even nerfed the last few "updates". EVERY suit BUT logistics has gotten buffed. It IS logistics turn. Stop trying to act mature and actually be mature for a change. Probably because the other suits were in more desperate need of an update than the Logistics were. Do you mean to tell me that the Assault, a suit that was basically never seen until this last update, was in less need of a change than the Logistics? Also, every suit? When was the last time the Commando was buffed? Please set your overly biased opinions aside so we can be constructive here, and less "OMG WHY WONT YOU GIVE ME WHAT I WANT FIRST OVER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WANT?!" I guess your name really hit yours attitude perfectly "MEEE!!! MEEE!!!!!! WHAT ABOUT MEEEE?!" Another insult? Nothing constructive left? Yes,my handle is meee one. I am so glad you can read. (-ía¦Å¦»-ía¦Å) Assaults have had their turn,and now that it's logistics turn,you're all up in arms? And as for lolmandos...they aren't even to be slated in Dust on PC. But on PS3 Dust they do need a buff. But heres the funny thing...i don't use lolmandos so i would have no right suggesting for them. I use logistics, which is why i know what's needed for logistics. Only an idiot would suggest changes to a suit they don't use. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:25:00 - [41] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. -Agreed -Can't be done unless logistics has a base stat to a high enough degree to compensate for that lost eHP (speed and stamina,for example) -Agreed sort of...you have to take into consideration the players that skilled a certain suit because of the bonus. Seeing as i skilled into Min for the rep bonus...coming from Gal,learning shields suck. Then seeing the suit i left for this weaker one get the bonus i skilled out of it for? Yes, i would be incredibly upset. I would be stuck with a slower scout,when Gal has better survivability. Lesser bonuses would be better. Any buffs to logistics would make them better,specific buffs would make them specialists. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:45:00 - [42] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. Please elaborate in detail on points one and two because at present they seem to be in contradiction to each other. Looking forward to your reply Cheers, Cross I'm afraid he can't do that. In previous threads he's tried to have logistics stripped of grenades and stuck with sidearms. Even championing slot reduction with 0 buffs. He has no valid reason(s). It's as i have said before,the concept of support is new and scary in the FPS genre. So his instinctive response is to kill it,or have it be easily killed. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 07:11:00 - [43] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Meee One wrote: Oh you and your misguided concepts. It wasn't the noobs that abused logistics,it was the vets. You know the ones that had lv 5 core skills like armor and shielding. The same ones that immediately skilled lv5 into scouts the day they came out. Increasing costs will ensure no new logistics,ever. But the FOTM vets won't have been effected. You're idea is as bad as removing class reps because lollogistics is surviving too long. And about "self-control" i have to restrain myself every day so i don't stack plates to be equal to basics. I would love to use biotics,but with my slower speed + low eHP plus needing to be 20m from the frontlines... Minassaults outrunning me with 2x my eHP... You see? Logistics is the one class that has no options but to use all their slots to stack eHP,because of all their flaws. Logistics can't run,hide,tank,rep tank... And yet rattatai is "intent on ending brick tanking". If logistics isn't buffed beforehand the entire class is screwed. But who cares amirite? Support shouldn't survive a single smg bullet let alone a CR burst. I'm hesitant to address this directly, you're not realizing it but your tone is getting worse and worse. Might be time to just turn the forums off for a couple days, I did and feel much better..... ANYWAYS- Vets will do whatever they can afford to do. They're vets. They reap the benefit of early game entry vs. you or I the same way you or I reap the benefit of our skilling when we fight against true newbs in pubs. My cores are maxed. All of them. My STARTER fits are significantly more potent than a 2nd hour newbs are. This is working as intended. -A limit to entry on the frame isn't going to dissuade vets, likely true. -A limit to entry on the frame is going to make a newb stop and consider whether logistics is what he actually wants to do, also likely true. -A limit to entry on the frame is going to make a newb who doesn't want to logi but wants to farm WP to get SP to then get a different fit altogether not go logi, is also likely true. -A limit to entry then limits the number of actual logis available making logis more valuable to teams in general, is also likely true. -A limit to entry keeps the logi from being the spammable abuse ***** it can be now, also very likely to be true. Considered objectively in its full context this idea is long overdue. Yeah....i think i'll take a break from posting. Also,don't be a coward. If i'm being unreasonable or asinine call me on it. I would however like a (legit) reason to go along with that calling.(As you have done here.) I guess i'm just getting drained trying to explain to logi-haters how valuable support is. That a single skilled logistics can turn a battle around,if they could live long enough to make it to the combat zone... But all i get is boatloads of sarcasm. ANYWAYS-Limits in a game like Dust is bad. Don't forget the endgame,connecting to EVE online for galaxy wide domination. By creating barriers in what players can do now,you create invisible walls you can't cross later. As much as a logi with a sniper rifle may annoy me,i understand that later on it may have a natural counter...like mortar barrages. There are certain things that do require limits for the players own good,but suit access isn't one of them. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1078	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:56:00 - [44] - Quote I have thought of an amazing buff to logistics without actually buffing the suit. Preface: -You never pay more for less Since logistics is slower than basics,has less eHP than basics,-1 weapon compared to basics,why should it cost more? Logistics suit prices don't reflect what you get in return. They are the same as assaults and basics, which implies they are somewhat equal. And they aren't. This base price combined with equipment,before modules and weapons...severely take a chunk out of your wallet. Then add in modules to try and survive and a weapon of choice. And you have what's known as a class wide "glass cannon",logistics is unable to specify in anything well enough to compete in any area...except killing. So,let's reduce the hit on the wallet shall we? -50% price reduction on logistics suits of all tiers and all equipment of all tiers. The equipment will benefit other classes as well. This way a logistics user can run an ADV fit equal in costs to another class. Currently a logistics user can run an ADV fit at nearly 2x the costs of any other mediums. With less offence,less tank,and less speed and less stamina,with less shield regeneration too. If you get what you pay for,logistics is getting ripped off. Sidenote:I'll try to avoid emo posting from now on. This is the closest you're getting to an apology,take it or leave it. It's not like i'm altering my posts for you because i secretly like Dust and want it to get better or anything. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1078	Posted - 2014.09.06 01:28:00 - [45] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Any opinion prefaced with "this shouldn't be allowed because it is low skilled" should be relentlessly mocked for being stupid, anecdotal and more or less functionally useless as constructive criticism. There is a difference between low skilled...like using an LAV to get kills,or using an HMG + LAV combo. And broken....like a scout tossing an RE,taking 3 steps back and blowing it up not killing themselves in the process while the other suits at the REs location can't RUN and escape the blast. -or- a nearly dead enemy (scout) getting shot swapping to a different suit (1000 armor heavy with an HMG) and getting full health and invulnerability at a supply depot. -or- snipers quickly shooting a second or even third time and being dead on target -or- large blasters sniping from 200m away (they can again) -or- REs being counted as equipment yet refilling at nanos. But i would agree if it didn't feel so cheap. People wouldn't complain if "low skilled" methods had counters,but they don't. -Equip a swarm to kill the LAV/HAV,driver kills you because you only have a sidearm (usually). -Sniper can't be killed except by sniping -Can't escape from REs dropped from 30m above your head. -Scouts can regenerate damage as you shoot them (almost),and they can OHK you. -Can't disarm REs without killing your allies. -Watching a scout throw down a hive,then spam drop REs on an objective. -Heavies turn insanely fast while spraying bullets,making escape impossible. -ADS hovers over allies spamming missiles (pilot stacking) They wouldn't be used if there were effective counters. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1078	Posted - 2014.09.06 01:46:00 - [46] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Question: Could you change the Minmatar suit to a sapper and somehow make Proximity mines explode based on Signature Profile instead of just on vehicles (Giving the Minmatar Logi a bonus to proxy mine triggers and explosion Radius of REs). (For something in the future, not necessarily a hotfix) You mean like having a proxy mine blow up whenever an Amarrian gets close enough? If so, me likey! >no one liked killer bees >they were killer bees because they killed things >CCP gave non-killing bonuses >Players want a logi to have a killing bonus I'm amazed no one realises the flaw with min getting a RE bonus,i hope that somehow they do. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1083	Posted - 2014.09.06 04:02:00 - [47] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Demonsbane your antagonistic, murderous bad attitude towards ~~boosters~~ Minmatar has been noted and found giggleworthy. ^Also true. I'm glad we agree that a murderous attitude towards minmatar is giggle worthy and therefore approved/acceptable. pâ+(n+Ç+¦-¦)pâÄ Not this again. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1104	Posted - 2014.09.09 08:51:00 - [48] - Quote i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1118	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:16:00 - [49] - Quote Major IMPACT wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. I've mentioned this to the people I play with a few times, hell yes. This is a great idea!! But I know people who will exploit this. People might fit this purely a hacker and a stealth ewar suit, used really to just run around and hack objectives, turrets, supple depot, CRUs, etc. I would support this, it will be just like having multiple clones into one slayer machine (The one with the HMG would do the slaying). Interesting fun fact:logistics should be the best hackers. Killing is the problem CCP wants to prevent,and hacking objectives isn't killing. Hacking is a very essential support action. TBH i'm just getting tired of having crap stats because my suit has a gun. I would switch to this suit full time. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1122	Posted - 2014.09.10 19:56:00 - [50] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Oh yeah and it still wouldnt beat the hacker scouts we have now and wo a light weapon , not gonna be a fotm.Maybe fotm to logi logis but we need more of those anyways. Min logistics built in hack speed +Lv 5 hacking +4 complex codebreakers,i'm sure that would give them a run for their money. But,like most i would build mine for speed and shield regen. I could actually use biotics for once,without severely gimping my suit even more. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1122	Posted - 2014.09.11 01:59:00 - [51] - Quote How about passive AOE bonuses to allies within a certain range (5-10m)? Min:Faster shield recharge Cal:Larger shield recharged amount Gal:Rep buff,if no reps are present it gives +2hp/s Amarr:Damage resistance -or- reduced speed penalty for plates -or- more amount plates give. Limitations: -You can only have one buff per logistics If you had 3 min,the bonus would only act like there was 1. -You can however have all buffs at once. 1 of each logistics nearby = 1 of each buff applied -Logistics wouldn't receive their own buff,but if another logistics of the same race were nearby they would receive theirs. Support needs support too. This would encourage sticking with logistics,and not abandoning them to fend for themselves. Trying not to double post.... I find myself drifting away from the six kin,having to make the hard choice of save myself or save an ally. I cannot by any reasonable means stay so close and be expected to survive. And this got me to thinking...why are rep tool ranges so ridiculously short? Why aren't logistics compensated with much longer ranges because they can't survive CQC. Rifles can kill at ranges of 100m,yet a healing tool can only work at 20m and below,knowing this forces logistics suits to go head to head with enemies.No other suit is required to perform under such unrealistic circumstances. Low stats,being forced infront of your enemies guns,can't out strafe,can't out rep,can't out tank. Yet CCP thinks this set up is fine? Other suits with more freedoms have higher stats,while killing,yet logistics has lower while repping at 20m? One is forced into a defenseless posture,without the tank and range of the others. The others can maneuver at excessively long ranges with better ability to survive. Broken?Yes Fixable?Yes,but until people respect logistics the answer is no. My solution: -Give logistics "insane" range bonuses to rep tools A core focused would work at 25m.(for all logistics suits,before min logistics bonuses) Adjust after that. Either give logistics bonuses to compensate its stats,or give it stats to compensate its bonuses. "Logistics isn't frontline" At >20m it is. At <25m it isn't. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1135	Posted - 2014.09.12 00:25:00 - [52] - Quote Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. This idea is supported by EVE too. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Logistics_Ships_101 T2 logistic ships have small signature radius, decent speed, and high resists.Even though they are the healer, they are tougher than a lot of other ships and will either be attempted to taken down first, jammed, or left to last if they are too tough a nut to crack, leaving your other more fragile, but high DPS ships to deal the pain while you are being concentrated on. Logistics in Dust shares 0 similarities with logistics in EVE. In EVE they are/have: -harder to detect -Decent speed -High resists -Weak to high ALPHA damage (low eHP) -Difficult to kill In Dust they are/have: -Weak to ALPHA damage (low eHP) If CCP refuses to buff logistics with a gun,create a non-combat variety that actually meets EVE standards. It doesn't even have to be re-colored. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1136	Posted - 2014.09.12 23:07:00 - [53] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: This morning when I was picked up twice with a Red standing 20m in front of me in plain sight, I got the idea that there should be a -25 WP penalty if you pick someone up and they die again within 5 seconds. My role in the context of the Support class: Victim! I consider the guy who picked me up twice without clearing the area to be an accomplice to my repeated murder. Maybe if there was a penalty for such negligence people would learn? 5 seconds is a long time when you can be killed in under 1,and a scout could just SG you 3 seconds later. More like 1-2 after you're revived a logi shouldn't have to escort you out on to that open area and get killed like you do. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1137	Posted - 2014.09.13 00:06:00 - [54] - Quote If a new suit is unfeasable. I've said this idea before too... How about built in damage resistance? How it would work: -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get 75%-85% straight damage resistance to everything. -While a logistics suit holds a weapon,they don't. So logistics can choose to be weak offensively,or strong defensively. This would compensate for low eHP,semi-compensate for low speed. It wouldn't be an active killing buff,so only support logistics would benefit. If possible: -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get a speed boost equalling their racial scout. -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get a regen boost equalling their racial scout. Then you have a suit dramatically encouraged to do their job,or suffer doing anothers. Slayer logis would be cannon fodder,but support logistics would be hard to kill and difficult to hit,like in EVE. But their eHP would still be low. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1137	Posted - 2014.09.14 13:50:00 - [55] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Meee One wrote: If a new suit is unfeasable. I've said this idea before too... How about built in damage resistance? How it would work: -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get 75%-85% straight damage resistance to everything. -While a logistics suit holds a weapon,they don't. So logistics can choose to be weak offensively,or strong defensively. This would compensate for low eHP,semi-compensate for low speed. It wouldn't be an active killing buff,so only support logistics would benefit. If possible: -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get a speed boost equalling their racial scout. -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get a regen boost equalling their racial scout. Then you have a suit dramatically encouraged to do their job,or suffer doing anothers. Slayer logis would be cannon fodder,but support logistics would be hard to kill and difficult to hit,like in EVE. But their eHP would still be low. This could easily create problems though. Imagine if a scout had a rep tool that gave him 75% damage resistance. All he needs to do if his strike fails is pull out his rep tool and then run off Scott free. Not a good idea, but I commend you for out-of-the-box thinking. A better solution would be to simply have logistics suits have speed and ewar that's only beaten by scout suits. Alternatively, give them base health only beaten by heavies. Personally I'm more fun more more speed/ewar than more health. Please re-read. I mention only logistics,not scouts. I specifically mention "logistics suits". Holding/using equipment doesn't make a suit logistics. I would never be as stupid as to make such a broad statement. Only logistics would get the buff. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1137	Posted - 2014.09.14 13:51:00 - [56] - Quote Zindorak wrote: How about a separate skill to further boost the usefulness of the logi's respective equipment That would be nice,but as long as "lolkilling" has the spotlight i wouldn't expect it. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1138	Posted - 2014.09.14 19:20:00 - [57] - Quote Meee One wrote: If a new suit is unfeasable. I've said this idea before too... How about built in damage resistance? How it would work: -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get 75%-85% straight damage resistance to everything. -While a logistics suit holds a weapon,they don't. So logistics can choose to be weak offensively,or strong defensively. This would compensate for low eHP,semi-compensate for low speed. It wouldn't be an active killing buff,so only support logistics would benefit. If possible: -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get a speed boost equalling their racial scout. -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get a regen boost equalling their racial scout. Then you have a suit dramatically encouraged to do their job,or suffer doing anothers. Slayer logis would be cannon fodder,but support logistics would be hard to kill and difficult to hit,like in EVE. But their eHP would still be low. As a possible balancing factor... -eHP wouldn't be touched If speed/regen is possible: -Reduce logistics to sent lv speed -Reduce logistics innate rep times to 9 seconds recharge delay 15 seconds depleted. So,if a logistics doesn't hold an equipment they're doomed,but while holding one they are nigh un-killable. Only if speed and regen are possible. If not...no changes. Straight suit buffs,even though i may like them,would enable abuse...which must be prevented beforehand. I just thought of more buffs whilst using equipment. -While a logistics suit holds an equipment,they get bonuses to scanning range,precision,and dampening. All of which rival their racial scout. Balancing factor.. -If logistics doesn't hold an equipment they have terrible scanning range (1m),precision(can't see a vehicle parked right next to them),dampening (can hide as well as an HAV,AKA even heavies can scan them). Logistics becomes a durable,eWAR toting,high regen,non killing support platform. All optional of course,i'd prefer the suit i suggested earlier. Let the one with the gun keep its crap stats. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1138	Posted - 2014.09.15 01:51:00 - [58] - Quote Any updates? I've noticed a lack of CPM responses,and 0 Dev responses... (GèÖn++GèÖG£+) Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1148	Posted - 2014.09.17 10:58:00 - [59] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Please leave logistics suits stats exactly as they are right now. Slots, pg, cpu, etc. 0/10 If logistics made up for its lack of eHP with evasion. And lack of offense with damage resistance while holding equipment,i would agree. But everyone,and i mean everyone,always targets logistics first. Yet,even though this fact is obvious CCP and the players think that they need nothing extra to survive as public enemy #1. It's downright lunacy. If i were going to throw something into a pit of lava,i would do my best to fireproof it first. Not just pick up the worst suited thing to do the job either. Logistics,right now in its current situation can't effectively survive to do its job. Remember slayer logis? How bad assaults were by comparison? Logistics has been this bad for a while,but it was masked over by the slots and reps. With reps removed,all logistics had was slots. Now,assaults have those slots. Logistics still has equipment right? No,scouts have that equipment. A basic Cal Logistics only has 2 equipment,just like scouts. But the logistics,the one designed to carry equipment the best,must lose speed,a weapon and base stats. Yet, the "assassin" suit,the one designed to get stealth kills the best,has high speed,high regen,and both weapons,with 0 reduction to base stats. Logistics has been,and still is being torn apart. The benefits of being logistics are being given to everyone,yet only logistics must suffer any penalties for those same privileges. It's the most craziness i've witnessed anywhere else,peoples justification for this insanity is "it's balanced if logistics suffers for those perks,but horribly broken if assaults or scouts do". It always leaves me dumbfounded at the sheer ignorance and hypocrisy they display,just to play favorites. TL;DR Logistics has been broken for a while it's obvious,and becomes more so with each "update". Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1151	Posted - 2014.09.18 05:38:00 - [60] - Quote Another way to buff support is to make them needed. For example,if you go into a serious PC without logistics you're going to lose. Pubs and FW? Not so much. How can logistics importance be stressed? -disable suit swapping at supply depots. No insta refills. -remove ammo refills from supply depots for infantry. Vehicles are OK. -to compensate,give logistics +1 or +2 deployables carried per level,except REs and proxies...unless logistics is supposed to be the demolitions class (it is) Now you have a scenario where the team with the logistics will win by sheer attrition. Just an idea. Also,increase all logistics equipment slots to 4 across all teirs. Cal logistics has suffered long enough. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1151	Posted - 2014.09.18 05:50:00 - [61] - Quote I just had a crazy idea... would it be OP to buff logistics walking speed to match their base running speed So logistics would move at a constant rate, or could equip kincats to run faster. This would be a boon to us non tanking rep tool users. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1151	Posted - 2014.09.18 06:45:00 - [62] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Meee One wrote: Any updates? I've noticed a lack of CPM responses,and 0 Dev responses... (GèÖn++GèÖG£+) I have had an incredibly hectic time IRL lately and so my time has been pretty thin. (Meetings with CCP are on going of course, as are my efforts to gather feedback, but this leaves my time to respond highly limited) With the current hotfix cycle changes are more likely to show up in smaller portions than sweeping blocks. Currently I am revving up to test the new matchmaking during the million clone event (what? I play this game ) after which I will once again be devoting more of my free time, such as it is, to this thread and an updated evaluation on the state of play for support in Dust. Cheers, Cross By all means IRL comes first always. I was just noticing that except for my (QQ) posts this thread kept disappearing. But as long as i have posting privileges i'll make sure it doesn't . But,i must warn you the matching system is wonky. 98% of the games i've been in,have been stomps today. Usually it's only about 65%. If you didn't play the game,i'd call shenanigans on the elections. But,don't stress yourself. It's only a game,it won't die if you go on vacation. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1167	Posted - 2014.09.19 00:22:00 - [63] - Quote I've noticed a terrible trend regarding support. In particular,rep tools. Weapons,as they increase in level do not endanger their users. 1 they can kill to insure their safety. the user gets offense. 2 their range never gets lower. 3 they are easy to use at all tiers. rep tools 1 provide 0 defense to make up for the loss of offense (just like logistics suits,ironically) 2 range actually gets shorter/more difficult to use for the better level The core focused is what i'm referring to. Want so make a comparison people would understand? Take every Pro weapon,cut their range by 75%,and cut their magazine size in HALF. And increase reload times by 50% to represent the loss of defense rep tools give. Now that seems awfully broken considering that they cost the most,doesn't it? But the rep tool isn't the only problem. Everything support oriented is designed to get the user killed. While everything kill oriented is designed to keep the user alive. Don't believe me even after the rep tool/weapon comparison? Let's look at 2 other equipment. One causes instant death. One causes instant life. Guessed them yet? REs and injectors. REs can be used while jumping,falling,running,or just plain slung. This mobility allows this killing equipment to aid its users survival. Injectors on the otherhand... You must be directly on top of an ally,then you become paralysed while reviving them,if you move it doesn't work. It's so badly done it even paralyses the person you just revived into a state of defenselessness. So while REs save one life,injectors kill two. Hillariously ironic,don't you agree? Even logistics suits themselves are proof. Killing suits accel at everything,and i mean everything,logistics has nothing it accels at in terms of survival. Low eHP,low evasion,low regen,low speed. Logistics suits themselves are designed to fail,and get their users killed as well. While even scouts have mechanisms built in to aid them in killing. Even worse are OHK weapons,the completely negate the rep tools existence and further nerf support. And with OHK snipers coming out,i've got a feeling less and less players will carry rep tools in favor of 80% injectors. TL;DR As long as support,and in particular logistics,are seen as valued members of the merc ranks and not just "nerfed to support" suits,nothing will change. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1171	Posted - 2014.09.20 02:49:00 - [64] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Sooo.... Logis need speed buffs Logis need eHP buffs Logis need repair/recharge/delay buffs Logis need their sidearms back Logis need to be Dropsuit Command level 5 Logis need scouts to lose that 2nd equipment slot Logis need more/better bonuses to equipment use/costs/limits Logis need strengthening without limiting versatility To werk, ceeceepee! cracks novawhip Speed? yes. eHP? No,damage resists and evasion (it accomplishes the same thing) logistics needs to be hard to hit,and resist all but the most dedicated attacks.currently logistics can easily be killed by stray fire. R/r/Db?Yes Sidearms? No DcLv5? No,i am only lv 3 for (obvious reasons) and i wouldn't be able to use logistics suits,and there are others out there in the same situation i'm in. Scouts need to lose the 2nd equipment?Yes,or a weapon and stats to be worse than logistics. Moar bonuses? Yes Lol 'versatility',logistics has no 'versatility',every slot must be used to compensate their bad base stats. I say damage resists because it's the one thing no one else has. Scouts have stealth and evasion. Assaults have everything but eWAR,native that is. Heavies have splash resists,then individual resists. Logistics should have straight damage resists to everything,and evasion to be able to escape. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1171	Posted - 2014.09.20 03:53:00 - [65] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: 1. Logis need more EHP. 2. Logis need scouts to lose the 2nd equipment slot. 3. Adv Cal and Gal logis need a 6th slot. 4. Logis need more EHP. eHP encourages players to stay and brawl,instead of flee. Just look at Cal and Gal scouts. 500 armor or 500 shields. They accel at assaulting. If,for example,stun lock was re-introduced at 2-3x it's old snag power exclusively for light frames,they would disappear. It's evasion and high eHP with high regen that makes them OP. But one simple change,and you'll never see assault scouts again. They wouldn't live through barrages they are able to now,once seen the DPS of any weapon would end them. But that's another topic. Logistics shouldn't be encouraged to fight,but mustn't be 2 shot either and escape should always be a valid option. Resists and evasion helps both survival and escape,while keeping eHP low so logistics remembers its limitations. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1173	Posted - 2014.09.20 08:49:00 - [66] - Quote Logistics killing things is the problem CCP has shown interest in stopping. If i'm holding an equipment running away trying not to die,i'm not killing am i? If i'm repping,and get damage resist i'm encouraged to rep more seeing as it aids in my own survival. Logistics 'being weak' only is good if you have multiple logistics options. For example,i can have a gun on my suit and have low survivability. -or- i can take the logistics without a gun and have great survivability. We only have option 1,if we had a 2 i wouldn't be trying to get the gun suit buffed for logistics. I would be using #2 because a logistics job isn't just 'lolsupport',it's to keep itself alive. After all,what use is my rep tool after i'm dead?Or how about my injector?Or even my undeployed hives? Logistics must monitor its own vitals,and any allies close by,while also avoiding enemy bullets and back attacks while repping.They must also manage their deployables so they don't use them up at the wrong times. No other suit is burdened so heavily. What must every other class with better survivability do? Lolkillstuff. They are never left defenseless,like logistics is doing their job. Do i believe logistics should be durable and evasive enough to regroup if separated from their team? Yes Do i believe logistics should be durable enough to take 9 SG bullets at 0m and survive? No Oh yes,the old 'logistics should die without a team'. I have bad news for you,scouts can throw REs 10m and there goes that 'protection',scouts can dive into a group SG you then escape unscathed. RRs and CRs enable perfect accuracy to shoot you from over 50m away. Enemies will look and see 'logistics' on the aim info,then single you out. The rep line makes you target #1. CCP,during the slayer logi era increased logistics hitboxes to be as big as heavies,and they are the same size today,over 8(?) months later. And let's not forget the new OHK sniper rifles coming out. Let's use a snipers logic shall we? Hmm,an assault with 1000 eHP,a scout with 500 armor/shields i can't track,a heavy with 1000 eHP... Or the logistics with less eHP than all of them,and easier to track? Now,which one should i shoot to get an easy kill i wonder... Obvious answer is obvious. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1173	Posted - 2014.09.20 09:01:00 - [67] - Quote Meee One wrote: Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. This idea is supported by EVE too. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Logistics_Ships_101 T2 logistic ships have small signature radius, decent speed, and high resists.Even though they are the healer, they are tougher than a lot of other ships and will either be attempted to taken down first, jammed, or left to last if they are too tough a nut to crack, leaving your other more fragile, but high DPS ships to deal the pain while you are being concentrated on. Logistics in Dust shares 0 similarities with logistics in EVE. In EVE they are/have: -harder to detect -Decent speed -High resists -Weak to high ALPHA damage (low eHP) -Difficult to kill In Dust they are/have: -Weak to ALPHA damage (low eHP) If CCP refuses to buff logistics with a gun,create a non-combat variety that actually meets EVE standards. It doesn't even have to be re-colored.Just put it in the market right next to the regular version,just like weapons. I'll just repost this,since some people are too lazy to read. This is the best non-buff buff i can think of for the logistics class. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1177	Posted - 2014.09.20 15:44:00 - [68] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: @Meee One You're secksy! Aw shucks,you're pretty too. You must have ignored the parts about sentinel level eHP and scout level speed and regen. And from personal experience,i'm never expected to kill anything,i am however expected to rep and resupply. So,to a pure support player such as myself,a weaponless logi suit that gave the afforementioned traits in exchange would be amazing for my purposes. I like to leave killing to other suits anyway,this would just allow me to do what i already do,only better. Ask anyone who's ever squadded up with me,i kill 100x more enemies with my rep tool than i do with my weapon. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1179	Posted - 2014.09.21 09:57:00 - [69] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Meee One wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: @Meee One You're secksy! Aw shucks,you're pretty too. You must have ignored the parts about sentinel level eHP and scout level speed and regen. And from personal experience,i'm never expected to kill anything,i am however expected to rep and resupply. So,to a pure support player such as myself,a weaponless logi suit that gave the afforementioned traits in exchange would be amazing for my purposes. I like to leave killing to other suits anyway,this would just allow me to do what i already do,only better. Ask anyone who's ever squadded up with me,i kill 100x more enemies with my rep tool than i do with my weapon. Yes, and all those things would be great - to a dedicated logistics player with a dedicated squad that wants to and is capable of working with that. And you are lucky to have that, I was just pointing out that would not, sadly, be the experience for a large part of the playerbase. And I do know how great that is, having a squad you can count on and play a dedicated role for, unfortunately most of my peeps I could count on like that have long moved on from this game :( Lawl, 'dedicated squad'. Naw,i mostly run solo. Going 0/2 with over a thousand WP. I'm not advocating for a weapon removal from logistics,just a weaponless variety that allows more defense in exchange for offense. I am more than willing to trade my gun if i can support better. I also let people know i can't kill to save my life,literally. But after i get 2k WP with 0 kills they usually over look that particular little flaw. My weapon is so useless to me i often run around with the ion,magsec or even flaylock. Here's a channel where dedicated logistics and dedicated heavies squad up: -Heavy/logi funzone It has over 50 members from all timezones. Just put in Lfs and your role. The heavies will do all the killing. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1185	Posted - 2014.09.22 00:02:00 - [70] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I honestly find the idea of a weaponless logistics awful. Specialisation is one thing, but there is a point where you take it far too far. Weaponless isn't defenseless. It would be a durable tank with high resists. High speed and regen. In eve they already have weaponless logistics. If they expect dust/legion to be a long term game they should take into consideration that a FPS shouldn't be just about shooting. And it would give logistics a unique trait. You can be a battle logi. Or you can be an Artificer logi. Battle logi benefits: offense Drawbacks :everything else Artificer logi benefits:exteme defense + can have a rep tool/scanner/injector as a main weapon Drawbacks :loss of offense I know several other players desiring the same suit. Can you guess why? Because the logistics suit with a gun is terrible at survival,and to us it isn't fair/worth it to lose so much survivability because of a single weapon. It's like saying assaults should be nerfed just as badly because of their 1 equipment. Tbh,we're getting fed up with being told excuses that it's a 'good thing' logistics dies the easiest,that logistics must stack plates because it can accel at nothing else. That scouts have the same equipment as a cal logi,yet keep all their weapons and stats. We see through the BS and hypocrisy easily and it's making us mad. And we get madder as time goes on and nothing is done about the hypocrisy and BS. We aren't unreasonable,we throw loads of suggestions at CCP but they are all ignored. Our pleas are ignored so badly CCP actually decided to fcking nerf* the weakest suit in the game the logistics suit. Remember the speed nerf? How damned ridiculous was that? Rattatai actually wanted logistics to go slower based on 'data',then in the same thread based on the same 'data' he said logistics shouldn't have such a high reduction to cloaks,scouts should. He couldn't even interpret the 'data' correctly and had to be corrected by the players. Yet he felt confident regarding the logistics nerf. I lost all faith in him right then. Removing offense is the only way i can see a nerf proof logistics. Tl;Dr you don't run pure support,so your opinion is worthless to those of us that do. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1185	Posted - 2014.09.22 18:47:00 - [71] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: In summary for those who are just catching up to this thread; not only does Mee One make make the assertion that he actually knows about EVE even though it's quite obvious that he doesn't but he's also quite ignorant when it comes to DUST 514 as well. Mee One has earned the title of: Official Blueberry of the Forums. And for his classic Comment of "you don't run pure support,so your opinion is worthless to those of us that do." He has earned the Accolade of 16 year old along with his newfound blueberry title. Congrats Mee One, you are a scrub. Yay,i have a new nickname!GöÅ(n++0n++)Gö¢ Good choice Kirky poo.n+ên+èn++n+¦n++n+ëS¦¦n+êGëºn+¦Gëªn+èn+ë/ Aw great now i'm getting embarassed my popularity is acceling (intentional) and idk what to say. (GùÅGîÆGêçGîÆGùÅ) Just keep yourselves under control my fans,there is enough of meee to go around.Gÿåd(oGîÆGêçGîÆo)b I shall wear that title,bestowed upon meee by my fans,with great pride.(GÇóGèÖ-ëGèÖGÇó) By passing all other posts... Would it be possible to have the missing sidearm on 3/4ths of the logistics be an equipment slot? Weapon swap would switch to it. It would give ADV logistics 4 equipment,and Pro 5. Cpu/Pg adjustments would need to be made of course. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1191	Posted - 2014.10.26 18:25:00 - [72] - Quote Getting back from a 30 day ban. During that time i received a YoLD.So,this will be one of the last posts i make ITT seeing as my experience will soon be outdated,until Dust comes to PS4 anyway. Let's talk about hoops,the figurative kind of course. In an older post i compared a killing and saving eq,REs and injectors. In this post(s) i will talk about equipment and weapon parity. Let's say you decided to skill KN,which can easily OHK even at ADV level. You invest SP. Open the market,and presto,Pro KN. Hoops:1 -SP Now let's say you want to skill injectors,which only refill 50% at ADV level. You invest SP. Open the market,only to discover that the 100% version is in the loyalty store. Struggle to get into FW solo,or qsync,just to earn meager WP. Buy 100% version from the loyalty store. Hoops:1 -SP 2 -trying to get in FW 3- dealing with FF in FW. 4-forced participation in a CCP designed isk sink,losing fits just to get a few paltry injectors. 5-loss of fits negates any savings the loyalty store offers For killing it is 1,for support it is 5. Taking into consideration the KN will probably be used on a scout with better survival,1 set of KN can last multiple games and be easily replaced when lost. As for the injector,it will probably be used on a logistics suit,a suit which has low eHP/speed and always singled out first. The injector user most likely will lose an injector within the first 50% of the first match they play,then they must q-up for FW again. Support,when it comes to equipment especially,must lose much more than killing does. While the KNer just buys more,the dedicated support player must run the risk of losing whole fits just to obtain a single equipment. How can this be changed? Simple really,just do a bump down. Currently MLT and basic restore 20%,ADV 50%,Pro 80% A bump down would look like this: MLT 20%,basic 50%,ADV 80% Pro 100% Then reduce the fitting cost on the loyalty store version,to mimic weapons. This would eliminate 4 of 5 hoops,making killing and support equal. Bump downs can be used for other equipment as well.(be warned this section is filled with my opinions of certain redundant equipment). Let's start with the logistics bread and butter,the rep tool. Currently,there is a Pro rep tool that actually has almost no validity.The flux version. It can't rep dropsuits enough to compete with the six kin,and can't vehicle rep faster than the A-7 axis an ADV rep tool. It's horrible,in every sense of the word,even its range is overrated when compared to the boundless,AKA the loyalty store version (see a trend here?) How would a bump down work here? Remove the flux,replace it with the boundless. Keep the boundless' current fitting,but give it the fluxs' cost. So,you can use the cheaper six kin,but have less performance. Or use the more expensive boundless,but have better performance. Hives are actually fine IMO,and i don't use scanners and links enough to give a valid opinion on them. Support is being withheld the best equipment,while killing is having everything thrown at them. Let's change that shall we? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1210	Posted - 2014.10.30 14:04:00 - [73] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Is there any possibility for squad based uplinks? I ask because way back in time we had a specification for an uplink that had very limited spawns (five as I recall) and the interesting aspect was that it was squad limited. The intention as I understood it was to send in the Scout with one and allow your squad (5? seems wrong with current squad sizes) to attack an objective, counter a push or just make life more interesting for the Red Berries. If the current code base doesn't support it I understand. But if it does I believe it would add a level of entertaining game play. A version of that type of uplink is still in. Go to the Pro uplink section. "Abyss" is its name. Can deploy 6 at -75% spawn delay. AUR only,it doesn't have an ISK varient. Just add an ISK varient. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1232	Posted - 2014.11.01 12:36:00 - [74] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: RKKR wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Iteration 3 is up, current revision includes the new native armor rep stats. This iteration should be considered in draft form until after the 1.9 patch has been deployed and we have further opportunity to test its effects, I'm just getting a jump on things Just took a quick look, some questions (i'm not so up to date anymore): Are the slot lay-outs the same as the current ones in the 3rd draft? Why the CPU difference between the cal assault and logi, will it work? (at first glance it seems that equipment is more CPU favorable for logis, but what about the shield modules?) something small: Think you mixed the 'current' (no change) & 'proposed' (empty) columns of Scan profile/precision? Slot layouts have not been altered in any of the drafts, High/Low would retain present distribution under the proposal. All CPU and PG changes assume the simultaneous change of the Logistics Role bonus, the increase in which will more than compensate for any lost fittings values on nearly all fits running full racks of equipment (i.e. fits with full equipment may even have a little be extra compared to current, while fits without full sets of equipment will be facing more of a pinch than they do at present). Thanks for the heads up about the possible column mix up, I'll give it a look EDIT: Game is currently in downtime, I will update the stat profile at a later time when it is back up. o7 So cross... Is cal logi going to get +1 equipment,or are scouts going to lose a sidearm? Basic Cal logi has 2 equipment,low base stats,-1 weapon. Scouts have 2 equipment,both weapons. Scouts need to lose either 1 sidearm or 1 equipment. -or- Cal logis need to gain +1 equipment at every teir. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1233	Posted - 2014.11.02 14:25:00 - [75] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: Any chance you can buff the rep hives to a 40,60,80 approach. I don't get think this will create unbalance as a rep tool can do this with higher HP/s and unlimited. K-17D Nanohives 20 -> 40 Allotek Nanohives (R) 40 -> 60 Wyrikomi Nanohives 70 -> 80 Also for the Caldari Logi why not add a 2% increase total armour & shields for the nanite injector. Obviously it wouldn't work with 100% needle. No,this would only allow logistics to be further degraded. Scenario: -damaged,need repair -use logistics as they were ment for (support) or heal self -'but the logi is a whole 6m away,that's too far' -heal self The problem wouldn't be the buff per se,it would be the fact players wouldn't need a logistics when they otherwise would. This would horribly break balance in scouts and assaults favor. Scouts because their two equipment slots,assaults because they would have one less weakness. Heavies would be UP because it would take 2 suits (logi and heavy) to achieve the same effect. More needs to be done to encourage having logistics around,not fitting an assault with hybrids and saying screw logis. Also the Cal logi bonus applies to hybrids to be nearly that same value. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1233	Posted - 2014.11.02 15:11:00 - [76] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Is anyone else concerned about the nanite injector in 1.9 being opt-in instead of opt-out for team revives? Most players probably won't consider using it unless they are ISK poor. Vets will probably never use it. And newer players probably won't know how to use the revive function because there isn't a tutorial for it. Having to request a pick up is like asking to be let to die in a car crash IRL. It makes no sense. "Why didn't you save that guy in the crashed car?" "Because he didn't ask me to." Lolwut? That type of response can get you charged with manslaughter. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1257	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:08:00 - [77] - Quote RKKR wrote: Cross, Why is CCP even considering to change the orbital system (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=179453&find=unread) before adjusting the support role? It's already no fun to run around when you have used up all your deployable equipment and now they want to make it even more useless by making it more easier than it is now to destroy equipment. Why can't they fix the support role first before implementing this? (enough ideas were already given in the past) My guess would be that support costs them AUR. Why skill a Pro suit when a logi can keep you alive in ADV? Why buy boosters? How do you lose AUR gear if a logi can negate it? Simple,create more ways to attack,but leave support lacking. Deploy hives,EMP drop. Repping a heavy,solo strike. It's all being intentionally designed to make supporting increasingly more difficult,and with solo strikes,impossible. For example,during the 'sidearm balancing' BP were made so strong they could OHK an untanked Min logi. This made eWAR a fatal choice over eHP mods. Yet logistics saw no buffs,neither did rep tools,or any other equipment for that matter. Hell,look at cross' suggested buffs. Logistics will be just fast enough to be chased down by every suit in the game. Logistics will have just enough stamina to fail escaping from every suit in the game. Logistics will have just enough to fail at everything,like it does right now. And with the recent crazy damage increases it's all superficial. Eg. Logistics has 100 eHP,guns do 50 Logistics gets 200 eHP,guns now do 100 Until logistics is seen as a specialist,and not just the assaults re.tarded cousin it'll never get specialist stats worthy of it. It'll always require a squad,in a game where literally every other suit doesn't. It's a ridiculous requirement just to not kill things. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1257	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:19:00 - [78] - Quote RKKR wrote: You haven't thought about ways that makes the game less dependent on equipment spam in the first place did you? Well you are completely right, my logic is flawed, CCP will never implement different mechanics, let's wrap this thread up. Have a nice day. Well,there is a way to reduce equipment spam. Remove basic variants. Remove flux variants of hives and rep tools. For hives,have the Ishukone guaged as the standard. Flux hives only add 1-2m with 0 other benefits. For uplinks have a flux variant become the standard. -or- 1 set of equipment per type per suit. The flux rep tool is a waste. The boundless repairs suits faster,at nearly the same range. The A-7 Axis,an ADV tool,repairs vehicles faster. Remove the flux and replace it with the boundless. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1257	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:28:00 - [79] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: You know, a lot of information, can't process as I'm at 2 hours of sleep in the past 40 hours, but I would like to pop in this conversation at some point. But what's with this 'removing undocumented CPU reduction on Nanocircuitry'? It says it right on the skillbook, just because CCP is lazy and never readded it to the skill description doesn't mean we should remove it. We need more passives, not less. The problem is that other suits besides logistics gets the bonus too. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1289	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:23:00 - [80] - Quote Just want to point something out... Scouts have been running at 8m/s permascanning in a 360 degree radius for months,no nerf. Logistics gets a team scanner to help their team,plans on nerfing 2 days after implemented. Logistics is even specifically mentioned in the eWAR post. Funny how a "fully skilled scout" scanning 100% of the time passively isn't OP enough to warrant a nerf. But a "fully skilled logistics" scanning once every 15-30 seconds is. Even a 50% range nerf,which will completely destroy active scanners. And you notice the whole premise behind the eWAR thread is yet another buff to assaults. 500 base eHP,high speed,8-9 slots apparently wasn't enough. Plates and extenders will add to your signature,guess what logistics needs to compensate its low eHP? It isn't dampeners,because logistics isn't innately fast enough to make them viable. Prepare for heavies to passively scan you down. Assaults have enough base eHP that extra is an option. The eWAR thread is what you get when you ignore a whole mediums frame class in favor of another. Well, logistics aren't exactly being ignored,they are being nerfed,in favor of assaults again. What's next? Assaults getting 2 equipment slots? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1289	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:39:00 - [81] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Y'all better stop trying to turn this into a "how shall we best nerf the logi" thread, otherwise, it just might happen. Lol 'might'. The eWAR thread is one big nerf aimed straight at the logistics class. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1289	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:53:00 - [82] - Quote Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. I still like this idea. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1298	Posted - 2014.11.15 16:33:00 - [83] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Meee One wrote: Just want to point something out... Scouts have been running at 8m/s permascanning in a 360 degree radius for months,no nerf. Logistics gets a team scanner to help their team,plans on nerfing 2 days after implemented. Logistics is even specifically mentioned in the eWAR post. Funny how a "fully skilled scout" scanning 100% of the time passively isn't OP enough to warrant a nerf. But a "fully skilled logistics" scanning once every 15-30 seconds is. Even a 50% range nerf,which will completely destroy active scanners. And you notice the whole premise behind the eWAR thread is yet another buff to assaults. 500 base eHP,high speed,8-9 slots apparently wasn't enough. Plates and extenders will add to your signature,guess what logistics needs to compensate its low eHP? It isn't dampeners,because logistics isn't innately fast enough to make them viable. Prepare for heavies to passively scan you down. Assaults have enough base eHP that extra is an option. The eWAR thread is what you get when you ignore a whole mediums frame class in favor of another. Well, logistics aren't exactly being ignored,they are being nerfed,in favor of assaults,again. What's next? Assaults getting 2 equipment slots? A few things: * Scouts have been nerfed a bunch of times in the past few months. * A Scout's passive scans are now interrupted when his cloak is active. * Overheard two Top 100 Assaults asking for exactly that (2 EQ). So,i can use the white logi with better survival,or the yellow logi with crap survival,this would in no way be infringement. * The Logis I run with place 1st nearly every match; they are fantastic (and viable). Will bet Cross 1M Isk that Logi scan range will be buffed to 18-20m (max range 80-90m) and scan precision buffed to 42 dB (max precision 20dB). My money's on you guys becoming better Hunters while Assaults become better Hiders. Would be really neat to see Logi passives forcing Scouts to run damps. So,logistics,the non killing suit (defensive),will be able to hunt other suits down(offensive),instead of hiding like a non killer should.(defensive ) And assaults,a killing suit(offensive),won't be able to actively hunt targets(offensive),but instead will be able to hide from them?(defensive) Doesn't that seem slightly backwards? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1298	Posted - 2014.11.15 16:39:00 - [84] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: While I am a big fan of bring DUST and EVE closer in conceptual design... it's a stupid idea for an infantry unit to have no ability to shoot stuff in the face. Almost every player will, at some point, have to run around on foot. If such a player chooses a logi suit, I'm sure they would appreciate being able to shoot something in the face. I mean, look at Team Fortress 2 (which I haven't actually played), where the medic has some pretty amazeballs ability (so I've heard, at least), and still has a freakin' gun. Even Blizzard's new FPS, with it's super-supporty-medic-class, still gives said class a freakin' gun. TL;DR: don't replace the Logi's gun with a repair tool. It's stupid and a fail idea. Addendum: racial repair tools is an admittedly cool idea. Still, no likes for you. I am so glad no one can read. The weaponless logistics would be a variation not a replacement. Just like the equipment they hold,logistics would have a non-combat variety. Where the current gun toting logistics suffers base stat wise. This new completely separate variety would sacrifice offensive power for defensive. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1298	Posted - 2014.11.15 16:47:00 - [85] - Quote And as for hybrid hives being repurposed. I'd prefer copy and paste current compact stats on amount refilled and cluster amount. Still keeping 1 deployed per level. STD- 1 carried ADV- 2 carried Pro- 3 carried The smaller bubble would make them more useful to players that try to hide. Eg.Snipers,scouts,etc Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1299	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:32:00 - [86] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: This thread is now officially long overdue for a blue tag. I know, Cross is handling it and handling it well, but still. Well,the problem is the most worshipped Dev runs assault. So our concerns will fall upon deaf ears. Look at what he proposed for logistics before,a .25 speed nerf to below 300 eHP suits. And look now,an active scanner nerf aimed at logistics. Yet he has managed to sneak in a buff to his preferred class,the assaults. Do you think he would allow any buffs if he was willing to nerf the speed of below 300 eHP suits (which were already slow)? Or buff eHP when he said '240 eHP was fine "? Let's just consider that for a second... -Basics have 60 more eHP -Basics are faster,with better regen -Assaults have 160 more eHP (compared to their racial logistics) -Assaults recently got logistics slots,so 8-9 (insanely OP with their base stats) -Assaults sacrifice nothing,they maintain full speed and stamina -Logistics has 300 eHP on Amarr -Logistics is slower than basics -Logistics has less eHP than basics -Logistics costs more investment than basics -Assault and logistics costs the same So,for the same time and investment as assaults with 400 eHP base. You get to be worse than basics,which take much less investment. But hey it isn't all bad,your fits will only cost nearly 2x as much as a comperable assault. With less offense,less eHP,less speed,less regen,mediocre eWAR,and as a bonus you'll get singled out first every time! Come join logistics today* *Must be a masochist to apply. Tl;dr Don't expect a blue tag,the CCP (that favors assaults) is intentionally pushing logistics to extinction. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1303	Posted - 2014.11.17 16:44:00 - [87] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Repair Revolution This will serve as a partial preview of the upcoming iteration on our logistics rework proposal, please provide feedback accordingly. (Also please pardon the very truncated presentation, I am typing this up when I should be getting ready for work so I have to keep it quite short) 1. Add an Infantry Shield Transporter (rep tool for shields) 2. Make repair actions more active. <-- Key feature, more below 3. Remove the cap from repair earnings (note this would not remove the 'in combat' requirements) 4. Logistics skill update - - Race or role wide bonuses to one/both 'rep tools' active pool (active what now? More below) Explanation Give repair tools the 'active pool' mechanic used by things like the cloaking device. In effect make them run off of their own "stamina pool". The repair tool would now provide scaled rep rewards correlated to the meta and type of tool used. A cap is no longer needed because the active pool depletes and refreshes dynamically preventing earnings beyond a maximum use case set by CCP for that tool. Guardian point mechanics remain the same, however with a new opportunity cost because of the 'pool' method now present on the repair tool, this rewards tactical play and user choice directly. Further WP would now be earned in much smaller portions on a WP/s basis. This when combined with earnings scaled to the tool in question eliminates the current reward disparity between high and low meta gear. These mechanics would apply to both shield and armor 'repair tools'. Further the active pool mechanic applies to each instance of equipment separately such that players who wish to have constant access to repair output can choose to equip more than one repair tool thus giving them a larger repair pool to employ at the cost of a higher 'buy in' via equipment slots and fittings costs. Point number 4 from above is a consideration being given to the logistics role as a support class within this system, providing some form of per level bonus to the rep pool (i.e. duration) for either armor, shields or a combination there of (depending on racial persuasion). This final element ensures that the newly revamped and active support tool will still be usable by other classes but always more effective when employed by a logistics frame. -= Other context =- Uplinks / Hives - Consider spam and some of the earnings potential on these nerfed, more details coming later as things develop but for now please provide feedback to the above idea with this in mind. Active Scanner - Presume that Team Scans give WP and that the scanner line has been split into two general groups, more effective squad only scanners and less effective team wide scanners. More details forthcoming after the eWar rework that CCP is currently taking feedback on. In closing I'm interested in impressions and ideas. Sorry for the rough nature of the presentation, I'm just crunched for time at the moment. Cheers, Cross As long as all logistics get some form of 'time extension'. Via,longer operation times,shorter cooldowns,etc. With their racial tool this wouldn't be a bad change. It's other suits using rep tools the same length and effect that has me concerned. Readjusting (additional) bonuses would be something like this: -Class equipment fitting reduction -Class rep tool/transporter operation time increase/cooldown reduction -Amarr-3rd highest rep amount,highest armor rep range (30m on the six kin) -Gal-highest armor rep amount,shortest armor rep range -Cal-highest shield rep amount,highest shield rep range -Min-2nd highest armor rep,2nd highest shield rep,medium range on both. I would like hybrid tools,shield and armor rep,to match the Min bonuses. So,armor rep Gal and Amarr-armor only,high rep amount (88,before bonuses) Shield rep Cal-shield only,high rep amount (30 (up for debate),before bonuses) Hybrid (dual tank) Min-shield and armor,medium to both (15 shield ,44 armor,before bonuses) Min would be the most utility based,able to help and armor,but would lose in a 'rep fight' vs specialist tools. Thoughts? P.S.Adding a shield tool wouldn't be hard,just change the beam color on regular rep tools from yellow to blue,presto more content. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1306	Posted - 2014.11.18 00:20:00 - [88] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because you get proportionally more benefit by having the same amount of rep on a tinier HP pool. Self regen is supposed to be the strength of shield fits over HP. Providing a greater benefit to a smaller HP Pool will simply change the most favored fit from amarr/gallente sentinel to caldari and minmatar. This benefits no one. Only true if you use the rep tool to repair people AFTER a fight. If you repair DURING a fight, a larger health pool is better. This is why AmSentinels stack plates instead of reps. The more health you have to repair, the longer that health pool lasts before the DPS overwhelms your reps and the sentinel dies. An armor rep at 150 hp/s on a 1344 health pool and a shield rep at 150 hp/s on a 929 health pool, which lasts longer? The 1344 health pool. If anything, the shield rep tools should be higher than armor rep tools since shield is focused on regen. Shields aren't meant to be stand and deliver defense or good for brawling. Rep tools with even numbers with armor would merely encourage the behavior and laziness over tactics. It'll also just change most favored suits from Amsent/galsent to Calsent/Minsent. So we swap one idiocy engine for the same thing with different looks. Shields also have projectile damage reduction (HMG),which would make Cal/Min the new heavy killers. Which is why i suggested hybrid tools. It would destroy the 'shields or armor are op' sentiment. My suggestion:take the highest innate suit regen and work from there. E.G.Suit has 50 sp/s. Shield tool adds 38 sp/s (at Pro) to equal 88 (six kin). Then make shield delays vanish while being repped. So,it would add to the innate reps but not encompass them. Then add a Cal/Min bonus to increase that amount (the 38 sp/s rep tool),to keep logistics as the #1 reppers. So,on a 50 sp/s suit it would be 88 total,on a 30 sp/s suit it would be 68 sp/s total. OP? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1308	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:38:00 - [89] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Meee One wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Because you get proportionally more benefit by having the same amount of rep on a tinier HP pool. Self regen is supposed to be the strength of shield fits over HP. Providing a greater benefit to a smaller HP Pool will simply change the most favored fit from amarr/gallente sentinel to caldari and minmatar. This benefits no one. Only true if you use the rep tool to repair people AFTER a fight. If you repair DURING a fight, a larger health pool is better. This is why AmSentinels stack plates instead of reps. The more health you have to repair, the longer that health pool lasts before the DPS overwhelms your reps and the sentinel dies. An armor rep at 150 hp/s on a 1344 health pool and a shield rep at 150 hp/s on a 929 health pool, which lasts longer? The 1344 health pool. If anything, the shield rep tools should be higher than armor rep tools since shield is focused on regen. Shields aren't meant to be stand and deliver defense or good for brawling. Rep tools with even numbers with armor would merely encourage the behavior and laziness over tactics. It'll also just change most favored suits from Amsent/galsent to Calsent/Minsent. So we swap one idiocy engine for the same thing with different looks. Shields also have projectile damage reduction (HMG),which would make Cal/Min the new heavy killers. Which is why i suggested hybrid tools. It would destroy the 'shields or armor are op' sentiment. My suggestion:take the highest innate suit regen and work from there. E.G.Suit has 50 sp/s. Shield tool adds 38 sp/s (at Pro) to equal 88 (six kin). Then make shield delays vanish while being repped. So,it would add to the innate reps but not encompass them. Then add a Cal/Min bonus to increase that amount (the 38 sp/s rep tool),to keep logistics as the #1 reppers. So,on a 50 sp/s suit it would be 88 total,on a 30 sp/s suit it would be 68 sp/s total. OP? So shields will have less health and less reps from their rep tool. How is this balanced? Well,shield tanks aren't supposed to be head-to-head combat. But imagine,if you will: -A Cal assault,shield tanked -A Cal logistics,shield repping If the tool removes all delays,that frees up all the Cal assaults' lows for things other than regs. Like: -damps -biotics -codebreakers Or even what logistics often gets tethered to,heavies. A Cal sent with a Cal logistics would be a fearful combo to encounter. And so would Gal sent with a Gal logistics. The Amarr logistics (which is the slowest) can rep from farther,it's range helps it recoup for its speed. Min,always being on the move have the lowest eHP pool,which is why hybrid tools would be fantastic,rep both tanks a marginal amount to keep on the move. Shield repping would offer a unique bonus that armor repping doesn't/can't,a whole low slot(s) open for alternative uses. It also would reward teamwork by saying "sure,you can go solo,or you can have a logibro and have all your lows freed up". Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1309	Posted - 2014.11.19 10:09:00 - [90] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Cat Merc wrote: So with this idea in place, could you please increase STD and ADV logistics to their full PRO equipment count? There would still be a reason to skill up to PRO, but STD and ADV logis wouldn't be so limited in their equipment choice. Interested in everyones take on this notion, balanced, OP, a step for suit progression but not enough on its own? Well,this seems ok in theory. But now we have a new factor,bandwith.(which is a great idea) As well as the cost of that extra equipment. 3 equipment slots with all ADV gear = ADV light weapon in costs. 4 equipment slots with all ADV gear = more than an ADV light weapon And as most logis know,ADV equipment is crap once Pro is available. And on my ADV fit i have 3 Pro equipment,which is about 50% of its cost. So,while i would like 4 slots,with such low survivability it would only make logistics that much more of an ISK sink. Logistics needs the built in ability to walk/run fast and hide,not hunt other suits. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1310	Posted - 2014.11.19 12:49:00 - [91] - Quote Hey cross,i has a question. Is it possible to just straight up swap assaults and logistics speed and stamina values? My reasoning: -eHP (160 greater than logistics) Sent Assault Logis Scout (almost above logistics) -speed (faster than logistics) Scout Assault Logis Sent As plates and heavies show,more eHP = less speed and stamina. Assaults however have 400+ eHP and 0 speed loss. While logistics has 240-300 eHP and speed loss. It seems as if the assault speed penalty was slid over to logistics,while what should be logistics speed and stamina values were given to assaults. It would end like: -eHP(assaults have higher eHP,logistics has lower) Sent Assault Logis Scout -speed (logistics has better speed,assaults have lower) Scout Logistics Assault Sent This would be balanced,speed for eHP. Instead of assaults getting everything and logistics getting the shaft (as it does currently). After all,'slayer' logis were only 'slayers' because their ability to tank high eHP,not because they were fast. And with the 160 extra eHP,combined with logistics (stolen) slots that has become impossible. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1316	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:59:00 - [92] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Looking forward to it Here ya go :P https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_ytb13XWe3th0KUWFdNJD5NS_0Pqv5U8acUmhPxh6Ss/edit?usp=sharing Took me a few hours but this is the rough proposal I have for how equipment should be changed based on the feedback in this post and my own personal opinions. For the isk page I decided to standardize prices for equipment...again these are rough numbers not biased on how effective certain equipment are or what is used more. Part of me wanted to do this for FW items but I got about 30 minutes in and realized that until we have a standardized isk price for items it would be impossible to try and give each FW item a fair price. I will admit triage hives seemed to have too many clusters... But having Pro level hive with less clusters than even a compact? Don't grenades take 12-24 clusters to refill? So,with this reduction i could refill 8 grenades,woo. And hybrids are bad enough as is,yet you want them to refill less? This seems like a good idea increasing carried amounts,but you're forgetting something. Logis are supposed to be equipment masters,and unless the equipment +carried is logistics exclusive imma say no. And logistics would required a class wide bonus to cluster amount to not completely destroy nanos effectiveness. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1322	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:22:00 - [93] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Meee One wrote: I will admit triage hives seemed to have too many clusters... But having Pro level hive with less clusters than even a compact? Don't grenades take 12-24 clusters to refill? So,with this reduction i could refill 8 grenades,woo. And hybrids are bad enough as is,yet you want them to refill less? This seems like a good idea increasing carried amounts,but you're forgetting something. Logis are supposed to be equipment masters,and unless the equipment +carried is logistics exclusive imma say no. And logistics would require a class wide bonus to cluster amount to not completely destroy nanos effectiveness. Um The whole point here is to make it so that you can drop more equipment with less effectiveness per drop. This lets you use equipment more often while reducing the overall duration of equipment as to discourage spam. You'll be able to drop ammo for your team in 6 different places instead of just 3, or place uplinks in 12 different places instead of 3. However, equipment is still limited to 2 down at a time meaning that you can't just drop a hive (or 5) in an area and expect them to be there when you get back. The whole point is that you must constantly have this equipment on the suit for it to continue to be effective rather than dropping a ** ton of uplinks with 20 spawns on them each that will last forever. In combination with the new bandwidth proposal, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for people to spam equipment while still allowing dedicated logistics players to use tons of equipment. If that's not an insane amount of WIN-WIN to you then you have to be crazy or maybe you don't understand this proposal. You seem to be intentionally ignoring my reasoning. Let me make it easier for you. I don't want assaults or scouts to be able to carry as much. It further relegates logistics into the corner by removing the need for external support,forcing logistics to stick with heavies. I want more clusters for logistics because there will always be the one asshat that stands right on top of your hive spamming grenades with the sole purpose of using them up. Logistics should be the masters of equipment,they earn the right by being so terribly gimped. Other classes should need logistics for something,why not have that something be their equipment? Any positive change to equipment should be given through logistics exclusive bonuses. Any negative change to equipment should be negated by logistics exclusive bonuses. One main problem with logistics survivability is that no one sees them as valuable. But if assaults and scouts could only carry 2 hives while logistics can carry 6-7,it would add value. And logistics would be seen as a long-term winning asset worth protection. I'll be away for a few days after i post this,but i'll never change my view. Logistics should benefit exclusively,and other classes should benefit through** logistics. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1326	Posted - 2014.11.23 20:23:00 - [94] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Meee One wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Meee One wrote: I will admit triage hives seemed to have too many clusters... But having Pro level hive with less clusters than even a compact? Don't grenades take 12-24 clusters to refill? So,with this reduction i could refill 8 grenades,woo. And hybrids are bad enough as is,yet you want them to refill less? This seems like a good idea increasing carried amounts,but you're forgetting something. Logis are supposed to be equipment masters,and unless the equipment +carried is logistics exclusive imma say no. And logistics would require a class wide bonus to cluster amount to not completely destroy nanos effectiveness. Um The whole point here is to make it so that you can drop more equipment with less effectiveness per drop. This lets you use equipment more often while reducing the overall duration of equipment as to discourage spam. You'll be able to drop ammo for your team in 6 different places instead of just 3, or place uplinks in 12 different places instead of 3. However, equipment is still limited to 2 down at a time meaning that you can't just drop a hive (or 5) in an area and expect them to be there when you get back. The whole point is that you must constantly have this equipment on the suit for it to continue to be effective rather than dropping a ** ton of uplinks with 20 spawns on them each that will last forever. In combination with the new bandwidth proposal, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for people to spam equipment while still allowing dedicated logistics players to use tons of equipment. If that's not an insane amount of WIN-WIN to you then you have to be crazy or maybe you don't understand this proposal. (1) Any positive change to equipment should be given through logistics exclusive bonuses. Any negative change to equipment should be negated by logistics exclusive bonuses. (2) One main problem with logistics survivability is that no one sees them as valuable. But if assaults and scouts could only carry 2 hives while logistics can carry 6-7,it would add value. And logistics would be seen as a long-term winning asset worth protection. -snip- I'll be away for a few days after i post this,but i'll never change my view. Logistics should benefit exclusively,and other classes should benefit through** logistics. @Meee 1) Do you not see that the BW thing is a logistics bonus? Its just tied to the suit, not the skill, which may not be the better option but it's still logi-exclusive: +50-100% more EQ per tier (depending on the comparison suit) 2) ADV scouts, with the BW proposal, will only be able to deploy 2 hives. Proto can use 3. So.... not sure what you are getting at there. @Shayz: I'm still not really coming around to the uplinks with only 5 spawns but you can carry a crapton of them thing. Instead of 5 spawns and carry 8, why not 10 spawns and you carry 4? Obviously the quantum uplinks with 25 spawns or whatever never get used, but why not a middle ground? I think it's even less helpful with the BW mechanic. Placing fallback positions will be a major pain if I can only put out like 4 uplinks with 5 spawns each at a time. 1) I was talking about the equipment changes (increased carry amount) applying to all suits. Why run a Cal logi (with even less effective bonuses because of this change after all,less clusters = lower bonus given) and die easier,when you can sacrifice a few eq slots and live longer as an assault? Have you read the BW thread? Players are willing to have only a single uplink as a sent,simply because they'll live longer. The last thing we need is for assaults to compete with logistics in equipment,seeing as CCP favors them,logistics would lose. 2)Another inherent flaw with Dust as a whole is the thought process that 'logistics should need a squad',yet assaults,scouts and even heavies were buffed to levels where they don't. This made logistics an unnecessary burden to it's squad mates. Logis need an 'escort' to be effective while assaults don't. This effectively reduces the whole teams fighting potential by 1 for every logi,totaling 2 counting the logi themselves. Consider that,each logistics because 'it has to have a squad' costs their team 2 fighters (themselves and their escort,if you can find one). Plus,equipment was nerfed. Other suits can use equipment to the same effect as 2/3rds of all logistics (seeing as logistics don't have bonuses to all equipment). And you have a pretty deadweight suit. If carried amounts is increased across the board instead of being logistics exclusive,it becomes yet another reason not to use logistics. Other classes are too autonomous,and this would be another way for them to stay that way. Logistics can stop being a burden however,just make them masters of equipment (like they are supposed to be anyway),since suit buffs will always be subpar to what it actually needs. Tl;dr Any + carried should be logistics exclusive. It's what they're designed for. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1329	Posted - 2014.11.24 09:51:00 - [95] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Logis in EVE don't work like logis in DUST at all. They have a similar function, but that isn't the same as being the same thing. Use the concepts for comparison but trying to make dropsuits work like ships is kinda like trying to make a devout, peace-loving pacifist with anxiety issues into a United States or Royal Marine. Probably not going to work well. Judging by the responses to my defense oriented logistics variation suggestion,i'd have to agree. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1346	Posted - 2014.11.28 21:43:00 - [96] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Rescuing thread from 5th page You'd think with the new BW idea players would take interest ITT. But i guess they're all too busy trying to get (insert suit here) buffed to use equipment instead. Oh the hillarity. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1350	Posted - 2014.11.29 20:48:00 - [97] - Quote Just going to add on about rep tools cooldown. I hope the class wide cooldown is significant,because if it isn't,you'll see a resurgence of killer bees. Not because they want to be killers,but because they now have so much more free time. -scans on 30 second cooldown -out of deployables -no one calling for rez -use rep tool? (nope,it's on cooldown) What does this leave logistics users? Their weapon. And as such,logistics users will be forced to change fittings to accommodate this new meta. Knowing there will be times they can't support,they will upgrade their weapon. Which is why the cooldown decrease must be significant. Unless,of course,CCP likes/liked logi slayers and wants to bring them back. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1355	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:12:00 - [98] - Quote So,now that colors can be changed. Can we assume shield rep tools are coming? With blue beams instead of yellow. And maybe hybrids? With 1 blue and 1 gold beam.(seeing as each beam has 1 straight beam and 1 that moves around). This would let everyone know what kind of reps the logistics has. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1355	Posted - 2014.12.03 02:24:00 - [99] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Meee One wrote: Just going to add on about rep tools cooldown. I hope the class wide cooldown is significant,because if it isn't,you'll see a resurgence of killer bees. Not because they want to be killers,but because they now have so much more free time. -scans on 30 second cooldown -out of deployables -no one calling for rez -use rep tool? (nope,it's on cooldown) What does this leave logistics users? Their weapon. And as such,logistics users will be forced to change fittings to accommodate this new meta. Knowing there will be times they can't support,they will upgrade their weapon. Which is why the cooldown decrease must be significant. Unless,of course,CCP likes/liked logi slayers and wants to bring them back. Oh, dude. The slayers are coming back. BW has guaranteed it. Something tells me the exact opposite is going to happen. You'll see a mass die off of logistics,everyone moving to assaults (for the equipment). And true-blue logibros will become a rare sight.(except in PCs of course,dat rep tool) Players will try logistics go "lol too hard",then run right back to the sents,scouts and assaults they came from. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1363	Posted - 2014.12.04 07:16:00 - [100] - Quote Z3dog wrote: Hmmm. Rattati locked the equipment bandwidth sticky, but not before raising scout bandwidth and reducing RE bandwidth. And increasing triage hive BW. 8 per? Max deployed is 2,Pro logistics has 32 BW. So it costs 1/2 a Pro logistics BW for 2 hives. Yet you can spam 4 uplinks for the same cost? At least the other hives are BW cheap. But why increase BW on the wyrk hive at all? It doesn't have a basic or ADV version like the hybrids do. And you can only have 2 out anyway. It would only make sense if CCP were going to add basic and ADV triage hives. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1363	Posted - 2014.12.04 07:22:00 - [101] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Well adaptation to changes is part of this game. So I made some suits to compensate the EQ BW. Mostly I reduced the amount of Uplinks on my first spawn to 4 deployed. Than I can spawn a commando without loosing too much (if Apex, all good). If I want to stay logi, I just spawn a tanked version of the first spawn, that has just a scanner (pro), a pathetic hive (compact) and a dirty needle. There you go, better survivability and still getting points from those links... Support though... well not so much. Cheers 4 links = 16 BW ADV logistics has 24. Cal and Amarr logistics has 28. You can still use 2 deployables (most hives). Scanners,rep tools and needles aren't effected. Quit being a drama queen. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1364	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:46:00 - [102] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Prevention of death is in all ways superior to assisting a respawns. Best justification for returning sidearms to Logis I've heard all day. >prevention of death. Sidearms don't prevent death,they cause it to your enemies. Prevention of death would be something like damage resistance. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1377	Posted - 2014.12.09 00:35:00 - [103] - Quote Meee One wrote: Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. I still like this idea. Is this even possible? Logistics is dying out because they are literally dying.(low survival) This could draw players to logistics because they'll survive longer. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1383	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:24:00 - [104] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: Meee One wrote: Meee One wrote: Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. I still like this idea. Is this even possible? Logistics is dying out because they are literally dying.(low survival) This could draw players to logistics because they'll survive longer. You say you want greater survivability on logistics, yet you want to take away its weapon... You know that makes as much sense as a sex addict putting his **** in a blender? Plus, we will have to wait after 1.10 to see how all the roles play among themselves... THEN we can reevaluate the state of logistics and what they will need in addition to what the past 50 pages have been about. I am so glad you read the part about it being a variety. You know,an option,not the only one. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1383	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:25:00 - [105] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: a non combat logi is fine. but it cant be that powerful. it still needs to be killable in order to take out squads. otherwise 5 super logis on 1 sentinel would be literally unkillable by a whole team. meeones idea is way to much. they should keep the side arm though. but make it like pistols only. no smgs and stuff. syphon filter splits weapons in 3 categorys. your main weapon, light weapons in this case. and smgs go into an auxillary category. then sidearms are the same. itd be like a sidearm/smallweapons/light weapons/heavy weapons in dust. good for scouts and logis. anyway. logis will never be correct until all the repair tools are in the game and properly distributed. there needs to be the shield repair tool and the armor tool needs to go to gal and amarr as ive already said on previous occasions. Ok then,what would you suggest as a fair trade for all offensive ability? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1383	Posted - 2014.12.09 20:57:00 - [106] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Meee One wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: a non combat logi is fine. but it cant be that powerful. it still needs to be killable in order to take out squads. otherwise 5 super logis on 1 sentinel would be literally unkillable by a whole team. meeones idea is way to much. they should keep the side arm though. but make it like pistols only. no smgs and stuff. syphon filter splits weapons in 3 categorys. your main weapon, light weapons in this case. and smgs go into an auxillary category. then sidearms are the same. itd be like a sidearm/smallweapons/light weapons/heavy weapons in dust. good for scouts and logis. anyway. logis will never be correct until all the repair tools are in the game and properly distributed. there needs to be the shield repair tool and the armor tool needs to go to gal and amarr as ive already said on previous occasions. Ok then,what would you suggest as a fair trade for all offensive ability? Nothing. There is no such thing as a useful noncombatant on the battlefield. Logistics are a PRIME reason why I say you cannot balance in DUST the way you do in EVE. And those ships in EVE are fragile as all hell. there is no precedent for an obnoxiously tanky, non-shooting walking target that reps people and spams hives. Never mind that the only way to make the defenses viable would be to make it able to tank past an HMG Heavy's overheat. Otehrwise you just get chopped to chutney anyway. This is why it would also have speed. It would survive via defense,not offense. It would dodge and weave,if need be,run away. And would add another unique feature to an already unique game. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1384	Posted - 2014.12.09 23:36:00 - [107] - Quote Meee One wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Meee One wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: a non combat logi is fine. but it cant be that powerful. it still needs to be killable in order to take out squads. otherwise 5 super logis on 1 sentinel would be literally unkillable by a whole team. meeones idea is way to much. they should keep the side arm though. but make it like pistols only. no smgs and stuff. syphon filter splits weapons in 3 categorys. your main weapon, light weapons in this case. and smgs go into an auxillary category. then sidearms are the same. itd be like a sidearm/smallweapons/light weapons/heavy weapons in dust. good for scouts and logis. anyway. logis will never be correct until all the repair tools are in the game and properly distributed. there needs to be the shield repair tool and the armor tool needs to go to gal and amarr as ive already said on previous occasions. Ok then,what would you suggest as a fair trade for all offensive ability? Nothing. There is no such thing as a useful noncombatant on the battlefield. Logistics are a PRIME reason why I say you cannot balance in DUST the way you do in EVE. And those ships in EVE are fragile as all hell. there is no precedent for an obnoxiously tanky, non-shooting walking target that reps people and spams hives. Never mind that the only way to make the defenses viable would be to make it able to tank past an HMG Heavy's overheat. Otehrwise you just get chopped to chutney anyway. This is why it would also have speed. It would survive via defense,not offense. It would dodge and weave,if need be,run away. And would add another unique feature to an already unique game. And it wouldn't become FOTM,because only killing suits become FOTM. You'ld see who the real logibros are,because most would switch to it. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1388	Posted - 2014.12.15 14:16:00 - [108] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: RKKR wrote: Meh to the bandwidth implementation: You only fixed the spam problem because dropping down equipment and running around with nothing left to drop down (or lose your bonuses by switching at a supply depot) is still too passive for a support role. Heck if repair tools can have infinite nanites to restore suits, then give my cal-logi infinite hives or better...a ammo-restock-tool. I'm not sure if only 3 equipment slots on my proto-suit cut it with the bandwidth implementation. If they don't go through with the change to increase the amount carried for most EQ, I think they should at the very least give a +20% carried per level bonus to the Am/Cal logis. More like 1-2+ carried per level for those two. 5-10 extra deployables would last a while. But i'd like +1 to be class wide if possible. Then maybe an additional +1(for a total of 2 per level) per level for Cal and Amarr logistics. All logis would benefit,but the deployable specialists would flourish. And it would make Cal appealing again. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1424	Posted - 2014.12.28 18:38:00 - [109] - Quote Rescuing from obscurity. How about logistics grenades? Or logibombs. Other suits have flux and locus. Why not give logistics nanite grenades? They function just like regular grenades but with a twist. They repair/refill instead of doing damage. They can come in 3 flavors: -ammo -hybrid -triage They can use currently in-game assets too. Flux grenade shell and flux explosion. Here's a scenario: A logistics sees a trapped nearly dead ally or allies. The logistics user doesn't want to die trying fruitlessly to save them. The rep tool won't reach,and they can't throw hives that far. Instead they prime a nanite grenade and throw it. % health refilled for allallies in the radius. (seeing as regular grenades can do 500 and up the % would be high as well) The logistics gets triage for all allies repped,and the allies get to keep fighting. This could even be used to revive allies from a distance.(possibly) One thing this would do is show who the slayer logis are because they would still use locus'. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1431	Posted - 2015.01.02 07:19:00 - [110] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I would like the Cal - Logi equipment bonus be applied to the Injector and Nanohives. When a call picks you up, have it give you ammo. FTFY That is no longer OP. As to the new equipment sheet... It says 'less' spam. Yet i see half performance. So i translate that to: -one used to be able to do the job,now it takes 4,but i'm arbitrarily prevented from deploying more than 2 Wouldn't in a 'less spam' scenario it be double or even triple performance,but halving deployed? -one of these new ones does the job of 4 of the old ones,i can save the others until i need them Currently all those changes are a kick squarely in the nards for equipment. Unless... -clusters can refill more (eg. 24 Current clusters refill 2 bullets,24 new clusters refill 4-6) -uplinks get hyper fast spawn times I'd prefer 2-3x effective but 1/2 deployed. + carrying capacity would make logistics very valuable during those times when running to a supply depot just isn't an option. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1436	Posted - 2015.01.03 02:05:00 - [111] - Quote About 'cooldowns' on rep tools. I hope they'll be getting a boost in performance to accomidate the downtime. EG. Six kin works for 15 seconds,but is down 15,it reps 176hp/s instead of 88 to maximize performance. But as i've said before. Do you really want logis shooting more than they are supporting? If so,you should add a cooldown/capacitor. And here i thought people had enough of slayer logis. Just a general reply aimed at no one. Just a lot of nerf rep tool threads coming up. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1439	Posted - 2015.01.03 19:01:00 - [112] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I've seen not mention of any kind of balance / optimization pass for Logi suits mentioned anywhere and there are too many "big idea" topics such as PC re-work that will likely push back any work on our suits even further. I'm getting pretty frustrated with this. You're not the only one I have become more and more convinced that the opportunity to get even the most basic level of an optimization pass for Logi suits passed when the medium suits hotfix ended up just becoming an Assault hotfix... Rattati seems to have moved on pretty decisively from the topic, distracted by "more important", shinier things. Oh logistics 'had their chance'. It just involved stripping the Amarr logistics of it's sidearm. Remember that? Gal logistics can't get equal slots because Amarr logistics wouldn't surrender it's sidearm. Ridiculous,i know. They act if they are the same suit or something. And every other post about logistics slot balancing always comes down to stripping the Amarr logistics of it's sidearm. It seems CCP will ignore the whole class because of a single suits sidearm,the one described as "being able to deal out its own trauma" aka the only logistics actually meant to kill things. The insanity is on a whole 'nother level. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1439	Posted - 2015.01.03 19:26:00 - [113] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Upon reflection, it i think my growing concern is that there are truly a relative few professional logi players left. I've noticed quite a few people pitching ideas like rep tool nerfs or saying "the logi's are fine where they are now". Way more of those voices and most don't actually undertand the impact of what they are pitching. We need some help. Would be nice if CCP Rattati would commit to working somehting out for us in the next HF. Especially since there are some simple quality of life changes that could happen easily and don't really require extensive balance passes such as fixing the messed up slot progression. Maybe the issue now is that there are no logi tourists left ( or very few ) and that those that are left are either very good to ok at the role. This probably translates as logis, in some respects, that get very few kills but lots of WP's BECAUSE they understand the role and know how to fit the suits to get the best out of the role. Therefore placing fairly high on the leaderboard and therefore upsetting some of the misplaced epeen of the slayer mindset ? This then results in threads asking for nerfs to logi gameplay. The issue perhaps is the perception as a logi as a WP ***/leech who contributes little in the way of slaying and objective capture. An absurd notion for even the staunchest logi hater that flies in the face of some of the more obvious cons of running a logi suit in a slayer environment yet will gladly accept the benefits without question. Now I am not saying everyone thinks this way, in fact most decent squads are looking for logis for reps, uplinks, hives and scans. Which shows that people understand that logis are a force multiplier. It should be a symbiotic relationship that benefits all players and in most cases it is. Having a logi in squad IS a massive benefit for all in the squad and the team. It does mean that the logis weapon is not always drawn and that they need some protection BUT they can rez you, rep you when hurt, provide spawn points and give you ammo. Seems like a good idea to me and a role I enjoy. Occasionally you will run into extreme examples of logi gameplay. Obviously the 1000+ HP heavy and several logis repping it and each other and also the most recent one the tanked min assault with logi support. However in each case there are several disadvantages and several ways of dealing with this none of which I am going to bother explaining as anyone with half a brain can figure out. A logi should be the one thing a good squad needs as much as the other suits need weapons, not a necessity but beneficial. Some people will not be happy until the logi is castrated completely but will be the first to moan there is no one to rep, rez, drop ammo and provide spawns in game. Go figure !!!! Anyway rambled on enough, just my 2isk. I'm still seeing the tourists abound, especially in ambush. BushLogis, it seems to me, are doing the most to reinforce the "Logis are WP whores" notion since they primarily ONLY rep or pitch links. As the matches are short and focused on killing those end of match leaderboards that list Logis in the top spots with or over good slayers create the easily distorted perception Logistics is ezmode. I've quietly sighed to myself many times while squadded with some random who decides to randomly run a beam then spend the next 7 minutes crowing about their WP take as they do NOTHING besides heavyblob. The problem is that the killing and supporting activities are grouped together. Kill specialists can see they helped,but supporting is foreign and unknown,so it is undervalued. So when they see someone with 0/X higher than them in 'points',they react as other FPS that don't have suppot have taught them,they complain. If there were 2 separate but equal EOM leader boards it would end most complaining. -A 'kill' board showing kills (from 1-total players) -A 'support' board showing support based actions (from 1-total players,showing amount healed,ammo refilled,spawns provided) Someone specializing in support with 0 kills would be at the bottom of the 'kill' board. While they are the top** of the 'support' board. While to the 'killer' the inverse would be true. Payouts would work as usual for each board,top gets the most. WP wouldn't change,it would just tally it up differently. 0 wp from kills? To the bottom of the 'kill' board you go. 1000 wp from support? To the top of the 'support' board you go. If push comes to shove (killers still complain about WP) the boards could be completely cut off from one another. Having a 'you must run logistics 51% of the time to see the support board' requirement. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1439	Posted - 2015.01.03 20:02:00 - [114] - Quote As a sidenote. Rattati did say they were going to try to make a mass based inertia system. Which means logistics should be second only to scouts in terms of speed and stamina/stamina regen. But that also means any eHP mods are going to have a crippling effect on logistics speed,but assaults it'll barely scratch. So the most expensive suit in the game will probably have its strafe be sub par,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'. As well as have crippling penalties to speed,which were actually meant to hurt scouts,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'. That's if the rules are applied fairly. Remember how he was willing (and almost eager) to nerf logistics speed while simultaneously buffing assault eHP and slots with 0 speed reduction? That alone showed that logistics and assault are immune to the words 'fair' or 'balanced'. The latter receiving the favoritism. Something tells me logistics will still be disproportionately slow with low eHP. And new speed penalties (on eHP mods) will push the class further to extinction. Which is why BW was so readily accepted,because they're about to royally f* the class up. So they force anyone wanting to use equipment to stay in an even slower low eHP suit. My future predicting powers say you're going to see 400-500 eHP logistics moving as fast as sentinels. Or eHP stacked logistics moving slower** than sentinels. Assaults will be moving 1% slower,maybe. Scouts will be unphased. And sentinels will still be fat. Brace for more heavy-logi QQ than ever before! Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1445	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:03:00 - [115] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Meee One wrote: As a sidenote. Rattati did say they were going to try to make a mass based inertia system. Which means logistics should be second only to scouts in terms of speed and stamina/stamina regen. But that also means any eHP mods are going to have a crippling effect on logistics speed,but assaults it'll barely scratch. So the most expensive suit in the game will probably have its strafe be sub par,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'. As well as have crippling penalties to speed,which were actually meant to hurt scouts,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'. That's if the rules are applied fairly. Remember how he was willing (and almost eager) to nerf logistics speed while simultaneously buffing assault eHP and slots with 0 speed reduction? That alone showed that logistics and assault are immune to the words 'fair' or 'balanced'. The latter receiving the favoritism. Something tells me logistics will still be disproportionately slow with low eHP. And new speed penalties (on eHP mods) will push the class further to extinction. Which is why BW was so readily accepted,because they're about to royally f* the class up. So they force anyone wanting to use equipment to stay in an even slower low eHP suit. My future predicting powers say you're going to see 400-500 eHP logistics moving as fast as sentinels. Or eHP stacked logistics moving slower than sentinels. Assaults will be moving 1% slower,maybe. Scouts will be unphased. And sentinels will still be fat. Brace for more heavy-logi QQ than ever before! This could all be made so much simpler. 1) Have both Logi & Assaults have the same suit stats and high/low slots. Adjust CPU / PG for outlier slot shifts. 2) Add a moderate amount of CPU to the Cal Logi and either a sidearm or 4th equipment slot. At this point I don't care which one - I can make both work fine. (I would probably prefer the sidearm option). 3) Give a second equipment option bonus to all logi suits so you've got a bigger range of options or just give everyone a different flavor of reptool bonus on top of their current bonus (range, intensity, etc). 4) Cut the price of equipment dramatically. 5) Don't nerf the rep tools. If you add a capacitor or heat mechanic give the logi's a massive role bonus to it's use (like 200% cap or heat build up). This is pretty similar to some of the different type of EVE mechanics and if pushed in a corner this is what we need to hold the line for. Do 4 things and don't do 1 thing and we've got some solid progress. I like your suggestions,but i already know the answers. 1)Slayer logistics QQ -truth be told logistics is about 100x more valuable than assaults so instead of trying to make assaults more appealing with fair and balanced changes,they'd rather black logistics eye an knock out a few teeth to make assaults look better by comparison. -will never happen because logistics isn't favored like assaults 2)You forgot +1 equipment at basic. -cal logistics actually have the same equipment as the cal scout,yet it cost the logistics base stats and a weapon. -will be ignored because logistics isn't favored like assaults 3)Or give half bonuses to all equipment,and 100% to racial. -This way any logistics will be better with any equipment than any other suit. -will be ignored because logistics isn't favored like assaults,or even worse it'll be so half-assed it becomes too confusing to deal with 4)This should be obvious seeing as a PRO rep tool can't outrep a BASIC weapon. -Full PRO equipment is almost if not more expensive as a full PRO weapon (old variation prices). -So logistics has to foot the bill for a weapon and equipment as expensive as a main weapon,not sidearm,main...logistics aren't commandos FFS so these costs make 0 sense. -will be ignored because logistics isn't favored like assaults,and CCP thinks it's fine that the easiest killed suit in the game also happens to be the most expensive (which just so happens to defy any normal or rational gaming logic) 5)The one and only tooth left in logistics badly beaten head are the rep tools. -Scanners got insane cooldowns,uplinks got insane uptimes and low spawns,nanos received a dramatic cluster reduction without improved performance,and yes even rep tools were nerfed in range and rep amount. -Well,there was one equipment that was buffed,the injector,but only after** assault users said they use it... It wasn't buffed for logistics it was buffed for assaults,sad isn't it? -As long as logistics out shines assaults at anything (even their own role ) you can expect CCP to nerf that too,so i fully expect some imbecile with access to will do exactly that...if not sooner then later Assaults are so favored they can get equipment buffed on a whim. And players complain there aren't enough medics on the field.(because CCP ignores the actual medics and listens to the WP whores) Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1450	Posted - 2015.01.05 10:15:00 - [116] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Upon reflection, it i think my growing concern is that there are truly a relative few professional logi players left. I've noticed quite a few people pitching ideas like rep tool nerfs or saying "the logi's are fine where they are now". Way more of those voices and most don't actually undertand the impact of what they are pitching. We need some help. Would be nice if CCP Rattati would commit to working somehting out for us in the next HF. Especially since there are some simple quality of life changes that could happen easily and don't really require extensive balance passes such as fixing the messed up slot progression. Maybe the issue now is that there are no logi tourists left ( or very few ) and that those that are left are either very good to ok at the role. This probably translates as logis, in some respects, that get very few kills but lots of WP's BECAUSE they understand the role and know how to fit the suits to get the best out of the role. Therefore placing fairly high on the leaderboard and therefore upsetting some of the misplaced epeen of the slayer mindset ? This then results in threads asking for nerfs to logi gameplay. The issue perhaps is the perception as a logi as a WP *****/leech who contributes little in the way of slaying and objective capture. An absurd notion for even the staunchest logi hater that flies in the face of some of the more obvious cons of running a logi suit in a slayer environment yet will gladly accept the benefits without question. Now I am not saying everyone thinks this way, in fact most decent squads are looking for logis for reps, uplinks, hives and scans. Which shows that people understand that logis are a force multiplier. It should be a symbiotic relationship that benefits all players and in most cases it is. Having a logi in squad IS a massive benefit for all in the squad and the team. It does mean that the logis weapon is not always drawn and that they need some protection BUT they can rez you, rep you when hurt, provide spawn points and give you ammo. Seems like a good idea to me and a role I enjoy. Occasionally you will run into extreme examples of logi gameplay. Obviously the 1000+ HP heavy and several logis repping it and each other and also the most recent one the tanked min assault with logi support. However in each case there are several disadvantages and several ways of dealing with this none of which I am going to bother explaining as anyone with half a brain can figure out. A logi should be the one thing a good squad needs as much as the other suits need weapons, not a necessity but beneficial. Some people will not be happy until the logi is castrated completely but will be the first to moan there is no one to rep, rez, drop ammo and provide spawns in game. Go figure !!!! Anyway rambled on enough, just my 2isk. I'm still seeing the tourists abound, especially in ambush. BushLogis, it seems to me, are doing the most to reinforce the "Logis are WP whores" notion since they primarily ONLY rep or pitch links. As the matches are short and focused on killing those end of match leaderboards that list Logis in the top spots with or over good slayers create the easily distorted perception Logistics is ezmode. I've quietly sighed to myself many times while squadded with some random who decides to randomly run a beam then spend the next 7 minutes crowing about their WP take as they do NOTHING besides heavyblob. I've got to be honest here, I have been known to go solo and logi in ambush but quite I often I will solo in all game modes just to see if I can stay alive and still support. I feel dirty now but in my defence it is with support in mind and not to brag about WP whoring. I must be a little mad as I often prefer to go solo, if I can get in a squad that's easy going then it's cool. Meh,i solo too. IDC how posers try ro make me look,my skills speak for themselves. It's just hard to frequently find a squad of reasonably skilled players. I'm not asking for 100% victory,but at least every 1 of 5. That might just be my experience though. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1465	Posted - 2015.01.11 23:16:00 - [117] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: DONE! Page 60, ready for use!! If you'd have told me that it'd be 4+ months, 3+ patches and fixes, 60 pages and we'd still be waiting for basic worthwhile buffs I'd have said...... yeah, you're probably right. Oh logistics can get a 2% buff,it'll just cost 50%. Assaults on the other hand can get a 300% buff fo' free. The struggle is real. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1465	Posted - 2015.01.11 23:17:00 - [118] - Quote Meee One wrote: Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. I still like this idea. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1475	Posted - 2015.01.20 11:38:00 - [119] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Just gonna kick this up off page 6 I take it there is not much else to report ? Here's a short summary from what i've seen. -logistics with it's lower eHP will still be slower than heavier tanked assaults. -Although stamina will be higher. -A PRO BP can still OHK any logistics. -an omnisoldier (shayz) suggested nerfing equipment by reducing its output but increasing its carried amount for all classes As a logistics purist i can easily see it as what it is,a horrible equipment destroying nerf disguised as a 'spam' solution. "Need 2 grenades? Let me throw down 2 hives." (one for each grenade) Cross is actually considering this nerf in the OP as a "good" thing for logistics,but it's actually a stealth buff for assaults. -multiple 'add a capacitor to rep tools' threads have popped up. These are from the same players that complained logistics were using their gun too much,and should be repping instead. Now that logistics is repping,they're mad about that,saying logistics takes no 'skill' and should have to shoot every now and then. Cross has apparently caved in to the whiny brats because he put forth an idea for a capacitor for rep tools,even though weapons can do 400% more damage than a tool can repair per second. -assaults are still the biggest drama queens to play the game,and still get catered to hand and foot. (surprise surprise...) These are the players that most often complain about BW and rep tool activation length. -logistics will still not be getting that well deserved equipment cost reduction. PRO equipment still pales in effect compared to basic weapons,yet costs say otherwise. [sarcasm] I wish you had to get a players permission to OHK them with KN like you have to with injectors amirite? [/sarcasm] -IMHO the recent changes to scanners could be seen as a buff. Keeping the little arrow is actually pretty significant. -Players are still trying to strip the Amarr logistics of its sidearm. They say 'buff' it's actually a hard nerf. -Nonlogistics users keep suggesting things that sound good in their own heads,but would actually be bad for logistics as a whole. See all the logistics based suggestions not posted ITT. (They're afraid of Meee!) That's about all i've seen. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1478	Posted - 2015.01.22 10:57:00 - [120] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Amen. It's a pretty good summation. While we have seen many new threads pop up about changes to the logistics class - mainly nerfs. We haven't seen an update from the OP Author in some time. Another CPM, SirManBoy, has posted that they are still working together and that he is still fighting the good fight for logis. (Cross, I worry - hope you are OK). But no more news than that. No feedback threads opening up for proposed changes yet.... time is an enemy in these discussions when replies are limited by hype, NDA, current events, absent voices. I ponder on the amalgamation of fixes we will see. I would like it to be role defining in a positive way. That there may be some strengths to running a Logi. NOT JUST: "YOU CAN HOLD 3 or More pieces of equipment!" Base stats blow in most cases. Give them something more. Increased walking/strafing speed, faster regens, something more. Speaking of equipment - Super expensive stuff. Drop the prices on that stuff! The idea to hold more equipment is good IFF (that means: If and only If - to those unfamiliar to math rules... i digress) the logi naturally just gets more/better equipment. Turning all regular gear in to special logi gear. I think that dividing the uplinks is ok, But Dividing Nano Hives is ridiculous when the hives barely last as is! We are talking a clip per hive.... maybe, and maybe not even that (sarcasm). A Logi's piece of equipment should blow away every other user's equipment. Enough so that a vocal squad would say to an assault or scout about to lay down a hive "don't drop that **** here, we have a logi". Any other suit running the supportive gear of a logi should be laughed at and shunned. No assault running a rep tool or a scout dropping a hive would be accepted in public. A logi's hive should glow brighter, be bigger, and refill at twice the rate with 4 times as much nanites per hive (exagerated? not really). It Should Be Ridiculous how great the equipment of a logi is. When not-a-logi a player should feel like they are tossing crap, very expensive crap, onto the battlefield. A polished turd of an uplink. A Brown banana of an allotek hive. Etc. While equipment does need tweaking, the equipment should be adequate but short lived (as it is now even with logi's) when used by all other classes. A scout has 2EQ slots (the logi-light) like the Amar logi, and can therefore out-logi the amarr with ease (the scout strafe is amazing). The bonuses should be so great that a even a 2 EQ logi (and honestly that needs adjusted to 3 and 4 for every race) should out do every bit of logi work that the scout could even attempt. The current logi bonuses are inadequate when only racially applied. Apply the bonuses universally and we begin to see what a basic unleveled logi should look like. (BTW - Caldari bonus is still tooooooo low). After we have raised the new basic logi class to the level proposed then we apply the racial bonuses AGAIN and you may begin to see what I'm a proper logi would look like in my mind. The Logi is to be a "force multiplier"...? When made out of 100.000+ isk paper that dies with each breeze on the battlefield my LOGI hands should reflect a godlike ability to resupply, repair, rally, revive, and reinforce; an ability that i was born to provide. IFF EQ is my bag... baby - MAKE IF FREAKING AWESOME in MY HANDS! What is this heresy?! You believe (as i do) that logistics should be the best with equipment? Are you insane? braces for equipment slots to be removed from logistics and given to assaults --- Assaults were buffed to crazy insane levels of OP to 'kill stuff'. Why can't logistics get the same in regards to equipment? Rep tools that can beat weapon DPS with insane ranges AND have multiple targets. Scanners that can scan nearly 100% of the time at insane ranges with insane accuracy. Hives that can refill 75% at 50m that last nearly forever. Uplinks with 0 spawn time and 75-100 spawns. RE/PE damage increase of 100-200% Injectors that refill ammo when you rez. All provided through logistics exclusive bonuses, of course. You can keep me slow,and you can keep me frail. But atleast all that sacrifice should be used to boost equipment. Hell,assaults sacrifice nothing and can out DPS a logistics that does. If anything,all power that would be used for survival should be redirected so a logistics can OUTREP an assaults DPS. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1479	Posted - 2015.01.23 21:42:00 - [121] - Quote The main problem IMHO is that everyone ties 'wp whores','spammers' and 'logistics' together. Yet equipment is to blame. For example: -let's say a merc has 1000 armor -and a tool has 100 hp/s reps (rounded for easy math) That's 10 ticks worth of WP. And it's actually a low amount vs weapon DPS. What if a tool had 200? That's 5 ticks. Effectively cutting 'wp whoring' in half. If tools were buffed at all levels by x2 it would aid new players be relevant,older players support well,and allies survive longer. While scaling WP to accomidate this new change. Currently you can almost reach ADV tools reps with suit modules alone,and you can breeze pass Basic,that's insane and removes the need for external support. And Pro costs too much to run consecutively. So logistics can choose to be screwed over 1 of 2 ways,have a garbage tool or have an expensive tool. Newer logistics can't foot that kind of bill all the time. My solution to spam? Increase the cluster amount of hives by x4-5,and amount refilled to 50% at basic,75% at ADV and up to 90% at Pro. Increase amount repped by triage hives by 50-60 hp/s. Straight up double hybrids refill rate,minimum. Increase carried amount by 5. (10 works too ) Then cut the amount deployed by 1. Then,add a Cal logistics exclusive of +1 deployed hive. All logistics would have effective hives,but Cal logistics could deploy more of them. I actually like shayz' idea about uplinks. All increases should be given through logistics exclusive bonuses ,of course. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1484	Posted - 2015.02.07 17:51:00 - [122] - Quote tritan abbattere wrote: Would be nice if the person being repped would know if he is being repped or not to change his tactics. If I am switching between targets to rep a lot they may still think they have reps and get too ballsy and get killed. Also I kinda like this idea. Cass Caul wrote: - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive maximum nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and 5% to repair amount per leveland +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and 5% to repair amount per level and +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to maximum spawn count per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and 5% to repair amount per level Still terrible. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1484	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:00:00 - [123] - Quote So,now that the killers get passive damage increase. And constant officer weapons,and even deadlier experimental weapons. What do us supporters get? Another shaft you say? My,how generous! Again... How about a logistics warbarge? Replace damage increase with equipment efficiency. Replace officer/experimental weapons with equipment. + Yellow stripes = Profit!!! Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1484	Posted - 2015.02.07 18:08:00 - [124] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Open Beta logi with maxed EQ here. My view on the reptool: I don't like leaching a heavy/slayer 24/7. I think it's ok for intense engagements, but running behind a heavy just not to miss those 35+ Guardian points is just meh... (i think that should be lowered to +25 like kill assists) I would like to see a overheat on the reptool with the following changes. The reptool overheats if latched on for extended periods. Overheating increases cooldown. Standard cooldown 3 sec. Overheat cooldown 10 sec. Having a seized reptool in hand prevents switching to a weapon, like with overheated weapons. Time to overheat on a core focused may be around a minute, so that you can have a longer engagement but not perma leash. The reptool will give higher output (+25%) when heated up (after two thirds of it's heating cycle) The reptool will overheat slower in lower tiers, since you need quite some time to rep anything with the basic ones. High tier reptools would have a much shorter cooldown. They overheat faster, but they also recover pretty much instantly (3 sec at proto). Wp should not be attached to the repping cycle, but the amount of reps given. To make life for Logis easier, make a quickdraw EQ slot, which can be chosen with the weapon swap button. This would make it much easier for logis to switch from weapon to reptool and vice versa. Give the Amarr the possibility to put EQ in his sidearm slot. Give the Caldari either a combined sidearm/EQ slot or one more EQ slot. Apart from that, I'd like to see more speed for the logis, since they need to run around much more than point defenders to either drop EQ in different locations or run to the depot to resupply. Logis need to be at least as fast as Assaults, to be able to move with a slayer squad. What has been said about a general EQ buff for logis, I agree upon. EQ should only shine on logis, not on the other suits. I would also like to see racial reptool variants, like tools with resistances, shield tools and combined shield/armour tools. Make a special Stealth Uplink useful to Scouts, that has insane fast spawn times (2sec), but only 5 spawns on it and a very low scan profile (not detectable by a Gallogi). It would be 3 carried but only one active at a time. It would be nice if this link was given a fitting bonus on scouts like the cloak has. This would help in reducing the Scout QQ which I'm tired of. As long as repair tools have a nearly 400% loss vs weapons,i'll fight cooldowns tooth and nail. However,a warm up mechanism would be interesting. The more you repair,the better you repair. If you stop you slowly cooldown to a low repair rate.(the starting rate) Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1498	Posted - 2015.02.10 14:21:00 - [125] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Meee One wrote: As long as repair tools have a nearly 400% loss vs weapons,i'll fight cooldowns tooth and nail. However,a warm up mechanism would be interesting. The more you repair,the better you repair. If you stop you slowly cooldown to a low repair rate.(the starting rate) The reptool is not supposed to give your heavy invincibility, but it should give the heavy time to kill two incoming heavies of the same tier. So considering the blue heavy and the two incoming red heavies are of same tier and skill, the engagement should be pretty even, with one side winning with a sliver of health left. If you are on the winnning side, you can rep your guy up instantly to full health, while the other side, would need to find a logi or retreat until self repping does the job. The logi's job is not to make the heavy invincible but more durable. My proposal is intended to make the logi job a little bit more active and less boring. I personally have no problems to run with a heavy, but just leaching him with no action involved is just plain boring. I'd prefer if the overheat mechaninc would give me more to think about. It would also involve skill to time the overheat right, and not to seize your reptool. Much more fun in my opinion. As compensation, the reptool might be buffed a little (in cool state). Your post reads like a QQ post from GD. Logistics takes "no skill","it's boring",etc. And i'm not falling for it. I've found your problem (see underlined). You either: -are limiting your attention to repairing purposely -are running frequently with a camping squad -have never run a front-line logistics,because repping on the front-line is much more exciting than on the back-line where no opponents are -are a bad logistics for keeping your repair tool on a fully healed ally while others need reps too The problem isn't with the grossly underpowered repair tools,it's with your playstyle. Try running solo in ambush and Dom,but avoid skirm like a plague. I'll agree to an overheat right after all weapons get one,because the repair tools are the only things that logistics has that isn't nerfed to smithereens. And a "lolskillful" overheat would destroy them. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1498	Posted - 2015.02.12 02:25:00 - [126] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Sadly I am beginning to agree with Mee One, and that's sad. Agreeing with someone who's right about something makes you sad? BTW,you're only agreeing because you can see with your own eyes that everything i've been saying is correct. Don't blame yourself for not agreeing sooner,blame CCP for making me correct. Anywho... Something tells me logistics is going to be UP and expensive for a while longer. And we'll never see a blue tag,unless it's for placebo or trolling. "We hear and are working actively to improve logistics as a whole". They say. While crossing their fingers behind their back. Honestly i'd prefer silence over a lie. Then there's the players... They'll suggest radical nerfs and try to put a pretty ribbon on it using the words tactics,or 'skill'. When in all actuality they're bored with the way they play the game,but instead of changing themselves they'd rather change the game around them. Let's not forget the word 'balance'. Which,for equipment,is impossible. Why do i say that? Because each race doesn't have it's own variation. For example: -When ARs were the only ones in the game they shot miles for insane damage. -When the other rifles were introduced,it allowed a bar to be set to start balance. (If a certain weapon was being used much more than the others.) Where's the Gal uplink? Or Cal shield tool? Amarr scanner? Min nanohive? Oh yeah...they don't exist. And since they don't,there is no bar set for proper balance,it simply can't be done,unless you pull the numbers out of your butt. So when i,or anyone else throw seemingly insane numbers around,this is why. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1499	Posted - 2015.02.12 15:01:00 - [127] - Quote Lenz Hong wrote: Meee One wrote: [quote=Mister Goo] Where's the Gal uplink? Or Cal shield tool? Amarr scanner? Min nanohive? Oh yeah...they don't exist. And since they don't,there is no bar set for proper balance,it simply can't be done,unless you pull the numbers out of your butt. So when i,or anyone else throw seemingly insane numbers around,this is why. How should the equivalent equipments be? How should them be used? Amarr/Caldari should be dropped, as Nanohives and Drop Uplinks? Minmatar/Gallente should be pointed and used, as Rep Tools and Active Scanners? Don't get me wrong, just curiosity since all this can change a lot in the game Well,that's the problem. First you have to define logistics. I always thought logistics were techsperts. Sacrificing physical force (eHP speed and stamina),for the ability to be the best at external support (think stereotype nerd,weak physically,strong mentally),multiplying the force presented by other units. Which would mean logistics should have the best eWAR (range and precision),and hacking right? While scouts would have the best dampening.(they are described as being sneaky and compact,not eWAR based) Well there's the problem. Logistics isn't good at eWAR,and logistics is only moderately faster at hacking. Logistics is currently good at only 1 thing,being an equipment mule,and while worth it in theory that in no way aids in survival like eWAR would. So until CCP decides to give logistics a defined survival mechanism through methods that are already sacrificed for, pondering equipment to attach to the broken suit is a bad idea,as it allows for distraction from the #1 problem,the suit itself. Think assault level buff in regards to eWAR and external support for logistics,that would do it. And seeing as logistics and assaults are supposed to make up the bulk of all suits in combat,while scouts are supposed to be niche,it makes sense to buff them in a similar fashion. But as to your questions. I have no idea. TBH i'm picturing different shapes,but essentially the same functions (like rifles). But this is only because CCP hasn't even given us an inch in regards to the possibility. I do however see a scanlink,you place it,you press the fire button it sends out a 'ping' and scans. Limited amount carried,limited amount of scans,refilled at the supply depot. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1499	Posted - 2015.02.13 05:41:00 - [128] - Quote Lenz Hong wrote: The only one who can provide "a good intel" is the GalLogi but it have to stop it actions and take a distance to use an active scan. From here we see a problem. Why not add to the logistics bonus a +10% range role bonus? From Protofits the base range of the Logis is 25 meters, in this case the GalLogi would have (lvl5, Logi and Range Skills) 50 meters, seems a good for a better "intel". 50 meters is crazy far,35m seems less insane and would encourage less soloing assault style But range without precision is nothing, why not -2/3% scan precision per level? From this point the base is 45db (seems too much =/) but considering a change to 40dB and lvl5 at Precision and Logi skills it could turn too be either 32db or 30db, good to see even some Scouts. the change would have to be significant enough to be worth replacing eHP mods. So probably. I don't know about a bonus to hacking, but maybe a better hacking speed built-in the dropsuit? Yes About scouts, they're sneaky and compact, their intent is to invade, provide some intel and hack without getting caught. Maybe the "answer" is to diminish the CPU/PG of the scouts but give them a bonus to cloak and profile/precision/range modules? Don't wave the nerf bat so fast,there might be a way to just buff logistics without nerfing scouts. Considering the Equipments and what I know from the focus of each faction, i thought in this for the equivalents (maybe some/all of them already have been thought, but..) Repair Tool: maybe a Caldari Shield Regen (Rail Rifle like, could just buff the shield recharge and diminish the shield recharge delay), Gallente Armor Regen (Repair tool like, but is stronger with lower range than the others) and a Amarr Power-Up (basically a ray to give a damage resist to someone, dunno if would be a good idea..) FTFY Active Scanner: Considering Cloak Field as a Caldari answer to the active scanner, we could have Amarr distraction points (deployable and fix or deployable and auto-moveable? maybe hide the user while is being active..). Minmatar, being allies from Gallente could use some of the Gallente Technology to create remote scanners, as remote explosives they would be deployable and activatable (in active mode, it would emit some pulses and enter in "overheat mode" (?), just like Scrambler Rifle/Ion Pistol) Can't think about the others (Drop Uplink, Nanohives, Nanite Injectors, etc...) About scouts,every one has an eWAR bonus but Min. It has hacking and...NK (the wrong racial weapon). Before bonuses were swapped logistics had hacking as was intended. But CCP nerfed equipment as an excuse to steal that bonus and,to be blunt,put it on the wrong suit. As i see it there are 3 faces to this game. eHP,evasion,eWAR. And in every class they are dominant in at least one of these... eHP -heavies,bad evasion,bad eWAR All round -assault,good eHP,good evasion,mediocre eWAR Then there's scouts... eHP of a logistics. Better evasion if they decide not to tank. eWAR for passives and dampening. And logistics.. Low eHP means high evasion right? Nope Low eHP and low evasion means high eWAR right? Nope Then what does logistics get? The ability to carry extra stuff! Woo for being a worthless pack mule! Logistics should be the best at eWAR if they aren't supposed to be active combat suits. eWAR = Scanning and precision as well as hacking Yet they aren't,why? Because 'lolreasons'. Still believe the lie that scouts should hack faster? Let me ask you 1 thing,what color are all the installations? Look closely,there are patches of yellow! And what color is logistics? Yellow But what color are scouts?Blue So now that you realize this truth,tell me why a logistics suit shouldn't hack a logistics installation (all of them) faster? Yet a scout should? It shouldn't. But logistics can't because 'lolreasons'. And until logistics is given back what scouts have stolen in eWAR,logistics will always be just a stupid pack mule,with base stats that make 0 sense because it isn't compensated with by that missing eWAR. But hey what do i know,i only put 2+2 together and got 4. Then again see mai sig. As to new equipment,i don't think we'll be getting any new models any time soon,which is why i often try to repurpose assets already in-game. For example a AOE repair tool,using vehicle scan circle,can heal multiple allies at once. At a decreased rate of course. Something like 50 hp/s at Pro. Or maybe a flux RE that temporarily disables the enemies tacnet within its radius. Or an active scrambler which,using the Gal scanner,temporarily makes false enemies appear on the opponents tacnet. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1507	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:29:00 - [129] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: As long as repair tools have a nearly 400% loss vs weapons,i'll fight cooldowns tooth and nail. However,a warm up mechanism would be interesting. The more you repair,the better you repair. If you stop you slowly cooldown to a low repair rate.(the starting rate) This could be very fun. Adding a sense of timing and reward for some heavy battle repairs. And it would make repairing installations and vehicles worth it. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1509	Posted - 2015.02.21 00:14:00 - [130] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cross would know better than I, but Scouts are very likely UP at the moment. An increase in GA Logi grade scans would render Scouts obsolete. I'm of the opinion that the GA Logi precision bonus should be toned down, or the bonus replaced with something logistics related and given to the AM Scout. The AM Scout has had no competitive function since Falloff killed passive recon, and active recon seems a much more appropriate role for a Scout than a Logi. Further, a maximum of two periodic, overpowered scans would be 100% less overpowered than 4. If the GA Logi scan bonus were going to be replaced, what would you want in its stead? Tbh,Gal logis have 0 other options. Gal have 0 other equipment that their logi can be good with. So i would have 0 other suggestions regarding a replacement,unless CCP lets us know possible options. But as for scouts getting to be better with equipment than a logistics...the answer is a resounding NO! Besides that,it's Gal tech why would Amarr be better with it? Plus scouts are supposed to be niche anyway. Used as a last resort,just read their description FFS it basically sums up to "assault with dampening instead of eHP meant to sneak by enemies". Consider the following as well,each scanner takes 15-30 seconds,with 4 you sacrifice a lot of possible WP through lost equipment. As well as leaving yourself without aid through hives and idle through cooldown timers. It's actually a pretty bad sacrifice IMO. I don't run scouts,but wouldn't a bonus to cardiac regs be more in-line with its current bonuses? Run in,reveal enemies,run out or around them. It would overcome its weakness with oodles of stamina. ------ To address your question specifically... There's obviously only 1 valid replacement,repair rate on the repair tool. If CCP adds different repair tools,shield(blue),hybrid(blue and gold),to go along with the armor (gold) one we currently have.(just change beam colors) That's when you get the chance to replace it with a worthwhile bonus. Armor repair tool: -Amarr would have the longest range -Gal would have the highest repair rate Shields: -Cal would have the longest range -Min would have the highest repair rate -or- Shields: -Cal would have the highest repair rate and longest range Hybrid (1/2 as effective as the others): -Min would have the highest repair rate and longest range. But as it currently stands i'd say there isn't really a fair bonus to offer for poking their eyes out. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1509	Posted - 2015.02.21 00:55:00 - [131] - Quote Ryanjr TUG wrote: killertojo42 wrote: The problem is people who hate logis don't have logis that squad with them or on their team and think it's OP even though it's the most dependent and defenseless class in the game byomessing for me if the logic gets change:) So,you want 0 improvements? Lol,assault user detected. But seriously. I hope CCP ignores all this 'nerf rep tool' spam. 1st it was "logis aren't repping enough,they're shooting too much,nerf them!" 2nd (now) it's "logis are repping too much,they're not shooting enough,nerf them!" Then it'll repeat infinitely until logistics is removed. A line needs to be drawn. And i hope it's here. No overheat,no capacitor. Now,depending on later additions there may need to be some change,but now is not that time. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1510	Posted - 2015.02.21 01:15:00 - [132] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: The problem is people who hate logis don't have logis that squad with them or on their team and think it's OP even though it's the most dependent and defenseless class in the game Then there are those that are upset victory isn't handed to them on a silver platter. These players often get upset about being scanned while flanking,preventing sneak attacks AKA what scanners were meant to do. Or that opponents survive 3 bullets let alone are able to be repaired. And frequently complain about team work,claiming a solo assault should be able to kill 2 mercs working as a team easily. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1513	Posted - 2015.02.21 01:58:00 - [133] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Is it possible to love you more? I doubt it - You are nailing this discussion right now! "Where does CCP see the Logi Role" is the perfect question because we don't see the Eve side of the role reflected in Dust514. - I'm not advocating or debating such a practice only agreeing that we don't have that definition and that it would be very useful. There must be a survival mechanism for the Logi, even if it was logi's didn't have a side arm because they all had a active energy shield they could throw up... but since that is equipment like that wouldn't be suit specific.... so nevermind. But we know where we want to go. Logis as a class must excel in one or two of the traits that offer a mechanism to live in a battle. AND We need to be more that a pack mule with a specialty in 1 piece of gear. So I'm on board with most suggestions to implement that defining. I wanted best regens but best EWAR is OK too if there is some increase in survivability. As a few others have posted the roles all need definition and some qualities that make them different that then allow us to customize styles with those benefits. Will we agree as a community? I doubt it, but with an official CCP proposal at least we would know what they are willing to look at and then we could work on ideas from there. Currently we have ideas from all over the board covering quite a full spectrum of solutions from a lighter logi to a heavier logi simply because we all see the suit handling differently and CCP has muddied the waters with stat and story values that don't nail down the class. I'm all for open game play and breaking things, but first want the balance conversation that can come from defining each class. Before that can happen CCP needs to decide what it's 'core' is going to be. The first suits newer players will be driven to get in to. Mediums? Assault + Logistics? Then define those two (combat vs support),and balance appropriately. And after those suits are balanced,then do the other more niche roles. By balancing their core suits properly they can balance the fringe suits easier. For example: Assaults are good for eHP,sents are better,but worse for speed. Logistics is good for eWAR and hacking,but scouts are good at evasion and sabotage (also hacking) via stealth,but worse for eWAR. Fringe suits would be for very specific purposes. While core suits would be for generalist purposes. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1518	Posted - 2015.02.21 02:12:00 - [134] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: That is some good thinking :) Querry: Your Gal multiplier makes them repair more per cycle, shortens cycle, or... i'm sorry I guess i'm just not getting it. I'm confused because Minmatar are the current master reppers and this sounds like it would change that. The Min base amount advantage seems like it would still push the max. For some numbers to help my mind with your idea, it sounds like this to me: (Imaginary numbers) repair tool base rep of 50 hp per cycle. (hpc) 1 cycle = 1second. Heat build up is 10 per sec. (h) Buildup maxed at 10. So, 10 seconds of repping = 100h = fully warmed up. Warmup multipliers could be at diff levels, but we will choose 50h and 100h for our example. 1.5x at 50 heat. and 2x at 100 heat Cooldown of 5heat per sec when not repping. Full cooldown in 20seconds I am not exploring the possibilty of race specific tools at this moment - too complicated for an example. Minmatar starting bonus of 25% pushes initial repair tool to starting rep rate of 0s- 0h - 62.5hpc 5s - 50h - 93.75hpc 10s -100h - 125hpc Amarr bonus of 50% to heat build up. (h) 0s - 0h - 50hpc 2.5s - 50h - 75hpc 5s - 100h - 100hpc Caldari 50% bonus to -cooldown. Cooldown is 40seconds wow, that could be a reason to use Caldari always staying near the top of the rep cycle power. 0s - 0h - 50hpc 5s - 50h - 75hpc 10s - 100h - 100hpc Gallente 25% bonus to rep rate multiplier. 0s - 0h - 50hpc 5s - 50h - 93.75 (1.875 rate) 10s - 100h - 125 (2.5 rate) OK, so I get it now. It was not as drastic as I thought. I just needed the numbers to speak to me and get it out to logic the situation. A warm up could be useful and make repping a new kind of fun, and the race would really bring a new dynamic that does not add Complexity - and that is what I think we like. Have some cool ideas but don't make it complicated for the newbros, but add some flavor for the oldbros. I approve this idea. Exactly. Cal and Gal can out repair in an extended battle,but Amarr and Min benefit from burst battles. Balanced with their racial enemy. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1518	Posted - 2015.02.21 02:18:00 - [135] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Is it possible to love you more? I doubt it - You are nailing this discussion right now! "Where does CCP see the Logi Role" is the perfect question because we don't see the Eve side of the role reflected in Dust514. - I'm not advocating or debating such a practice only agreeing that we don't have that definition and that it would be very useful. There must be a survival mechanism for the Logi, even if it was logi's didn't have a side arm because they all had a active energy shield they could throw up... but since that is equipment like that wouldn't be suit specific.... so nevermind. But we know where we want to go. Logis as a class must excel in one or two of the traits that offer a mechanism to live in a battle. AND We need to be more that a pack mule with a specialty in 1 piece of gear. So I'm on board with most suggestions to implement that defining. I wanted best regens but best EWAR is OK too if there is some increase in survivability. As a few others have posted the roles all need definition and some qualities that make them different that then allow us to customize styles with those benefits. Will we agree as a community? I doubt it, but with an official CCP proposal at least we would know what they are willing to look at and then we could work on ideas from there. Currently we have ideas from all over the board covering quite a full spectrum of solutions from a lighter logi to a heavier logi simply because we all see the suit handling differently and CCP has muddied the waters with stat and story values that don't nail down the class. I'm all for open game play and breaking things, but first want the balance conversation that can come from defining each class. Before that can happen CCP needs to decide what it's 'core' is going to be. The first suits newer players will be driven to get in to. Mediums? Assault + Logistics? Then define those two (combat vs support),and balance appropriately. And after those suits are balanced,then do the other more niche roles. By balancing their core suits properly they can balance the fringe suits easier. For example: Assaults are good for eHP,sents are better,but worse for speed. Logistics is good for eWAR and hacking,but scouts are good at evasion and sabotage (also hacking) via stealth,but worse for eWAR. Fringe suits would be for very specific purposes. While core suits would be for generalist purposes. AGREE that CCP skipped over defenitions. I never even look at the core (basic?) suits because of the lack of bonuses. I always opted for a leveling system that took your cumulative bonuses and that the basic suits carried a racial and frame bonus. then the class bonus would come into play as a person specialized. I can see your point. but In my mind I never see the basics as a choice I just see specialized on the battlefield.... where else would a logi fit? Weird situation to think about. If Basic Frames were worthwhile... the whole game experience would change for newbros. For oldbros it just means another bonus and if the basics are cheaper... but what else would be the draw? Not a discussion I'm ready to get into. I'd have do to alot more thinking about it. Core as in suits CCP wants players to use over 90% of the time,not basics. Basics are terrible to force players into specialist suit. If CCP wants 90% of the suits to be assaults and logistics,they need to balance around that idea. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1519	Posted - 2015.02.21 02:41:00 - [136] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Wow. Honestly I had no idea that this was a thing. Seriously? CCP wants 90% of the players to be Assault and Logi? I could deal with fewer scouts - they annoy the hell out of me (and gank me to no end) - but fewer heavies and commandos too?.... Really? I mean I'm sorry to derail the thread a little bit here it's just that I thought I was caught up on most things and this just seems out there for them to want people to play logis. I get that they want the ASSAULT to have the biggest draw but I was thinking more like a 50% max.... .... huh ..... I guess that's something new to think about. Well,90% might be stretching it. But it was an example of how common core suits would be. Until CCP finds that core and balances around it,suits will always be lopsided. Whether that core is mediums,lights,or heavies has yet to be defined. But if it ever is,you can expect to see less and less of the non-core suits. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1530	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:28:00 - [137] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: These players often get upset about being scanned while flanking,preventing sneak attacks AKA what scanners were meant to do. I appreciate your earlier feedback. It hadn't occurred to me that no other Gallente equipment exists, and I agree wholeheartedly agree that Scouts shouldn't be out-EQ'ing Logis. So that we're clear, I'm not upset, and I don't hate Logis. I simply believe that the GA Logi precision bonus to Active Scans is imbalanced. I'll attempt to explain my reasoning concisely ... The need for 15 dB scanners to "sniff out" lurking Scouts was replaced by Falloff. Today, any unit can fit a precision enhancer and protect his own flank. An SG or NK assassin on the prowl -- even when successfully evading LoS -- has his position revealed on squad TacNet with each and every takedown. Scouts are now blind as bats while cloaked, and they are required to decloak well in advance of any attack. Long story short, sneaking has been greatly diminished over the past few builds; it stands to reason that the hard counters to sneaking should follow suit. Then there's the 21 dB, 200M, 90 degree scans. One unit with the power to illuminate entire Ambush matches. For an entire team. And at zero to no risk. Just spam those scans and stick with the blob! There's a good reason why Nyain San stompers field a GA Logi. And these massively powerful scans do more than accelerate pubstomps; they also serve to perpetuate King HP and limit build build variety. Why would an Assault even bother running damps with these things on the field? That's my two cents on the present state of GalLogi Scans; I could go on, but this isn't my thread and I don't intend to commandeer it. I hope you guys find my reasoning reasonable. Perhaps there are other ways to deescalate GalLogi scans without altogether replacing the bonus ... But don't those 200m scans have a 30 second cooldown? That and you must consider the logistics suit itself. Amarr has the most eHP at 300. Min has the lowest at 240.(the same as an AM scout) Yet all logistics are still slower than their basic frame,and even 160 eHP advantaged assault counterpart. Logistics sacrifices speed and eHP for those unique advantages with equipment,yet can cost more to die faster. For example: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7831 That fit is just with the cost of equipment. 0 modules,0 weapons,just equipment. Logistics must pay more to have less eHP,less speed,less stamina,less offensive power,less eWAR. And logistics is singled out first every time. So IMHO for all the sacrifices logistics has to make i believe they each should be game breakingly OP with their respective equipment. That aside there's really nothing that can replace precision,exept cooldowns. So take your pick,super scans every once in a while -or- weak scans all the time. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1533	Posted - 2015.02.21 19:00:00 - [138] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Ok! Have some tentative numbers for you. Assumption GA Logi bonus to Active Scanner Precision replaced by Active Scanner Cooldown. Active Scanner Overhaul 46 dB Scanners ---> 40dB: Commando beats w/1 cmp damp, Heavy w/2 36 dB Scanners ---> 33dB: Assault & Logi beats w/1 cmp damp, Commando w/2 28 dB Scanners ---> 25dB: Scouts beat w/1 cmp damp, Assault w/2, Logi w/3 20 dB Scanners ---> 18dB: MN/AM Scout beat w/2 cmp damp + proto cloak (on) What do you guys think? Well,that looks good but i have a more proactive solution. What if scanners had capacitors like cloaks? Instead of tapping the shoot button and getting constant images for a snapshot motion. How about making scanners more active? Make the capacitor last the entire scan length,and have it where a scanner user can hold the shoot button to get active scans. Or release the shoot button to stop scanning and let the capacitor recharge. Active scans for active information,and snapshot scans for snapshot information. Cooldowns would have to be decreased to compensate the new danger it leaves the user in. That change,with your change would be pretty cool IMO. And Gal logistics can reduce the time it takes to recharge. Pretty sweet paired up together. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1533	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:15:00 - [139] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Meee One wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Ok! Have some tentative numbers for you. Assumption GA Logi bonus to Active Scanner Precision replaced by Active Scanner Cooldown. Active Scanner Overhaul 46 dB Scanners ---> 40dB: Commando beats w/1 cmp damp, Heavy w/2 36 dB Scanners ---> 33dB: Assault & Logi beats w/1 cmp damp, Commando w/2 28 dB Scanners ---> 25dB: Scouts beat w/1 cmp damp, Assault w/2, Logi w/3 20 dB Scanners ---> 18dB: MN/AM Scout beat w/2 cmp damp + proto cloak (on) What do you guys think? Well,that looks good but i have a more proactive solution. What if scanners had capacitors like cloaks? Instead of tapping the shoot button and getting constant images for a snapshot motion. How about making scanners more active? Make the capacitor last the entire scan length,and have it where a scanner user can hold the shoot button to get active scans. Or release the shoot button to stop scanning and let the capacitor recharge. Active scans for active information,and snapshot scans for snapshot information. Cooldowns would have to be decreased to compensate the new danger it leaves the user in. That change,with your change would be pretty cool IMO. And Gal logistics can reduce the time it takes to recharge. Pretty sweet paired up together. Dude. They're not broken. Why fix them? No one is implying that. It just makes sense that as long as you scan you get updated information,and if you stop you don't. It potentially makes scanners more versatile by allowing multiple snapshots to find enemies,and longer scans to keep track of them. Instead of firing blanks then waiting for a 30 second cooldown to try again. As well as extending the possibility of WP through intel kill assists. Plus you know as well as i do CCP will never listen to logistics regarding equipment,they'll listen to everyone else. So its not like anyone influential will read this anyway. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1534	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:00:00 - [140] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Just because the thread isn't littered with blue tags doesn't mean no one worthwhile is listening, just that they haven't responded. Active scans are fine, GalLogi bonuses are fine and Scouts (by and large) are fine. Don't let this thread turn into the Scout wishlist for stats, this whole thing about Active Scans being a problem is RepTool capacitor/cooldown QQ only for scanners. It's bs. The sort of bs that if we start addressing it the limited resources we have will go to addressing it instead of the laundrylist of other things that are actually broken or poorly performing (like base stats). As for scan DB CCP will come to their own conclusion,with or without us. And i wasn't talking about DB,i was talking about mechanics. The function of the device. Doing a single split second scan to get 5 seconds of information has always been confusing to me. Doing a split second scan to get split second information makes more sense. And the ability to stop scanning and refocus your attention sounds good too. IMHO 30 seconds is a long time to wait if you scanned the wrong area. I'm not saying active scans are a problem i'm saying the current system is too punishing for an accidental misfire -or- misplaced scan. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1534	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:02:00 - [141] - Quote Ryanjr TUG wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Page 40 something wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177251&find=unread Yeah. Because this conversation never happened and after it you didn't continue trying to peddle the same debunked hooey. TruthInTheFeedbackForum@CCP. com/support eagerly awaits your ticket request. Ehglish Please...... He's saying someone tryed to get eWAR changed and tried to make it look balanced but it actually favored scouts. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1534	Posted - 2015.02.22 14:24:00 - [142] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Dude. They're not broken. Why fix them? GA Logi scans are balanced against stealth units which no longer exist. * Cloak Active dampening bonus was substantially reduced. * Cloak Duration was substantially reduced. * Cloaked units are now TacNet blind. * Cloaked units must now decloak seconds in advance performing any action. * If/when they fit plates, Scouts now suffer steep mobility penalty. * Falloff. If GA Logi scans were balanced before, it is not possible that they are balanced now. I may not like scouts,but i can sympathize with your objective. Back when CCP buffed assaults by 160 eHP and 8 slots with 0 speed reduction. I made several posts (1 in GD,1 in FB+R) asking what logistics would be getting,seeing as CCP said logistics would be getting a pass at the same time previously. I protested loudly about logistics being ignored. I was trolled,insulted,and bombarded with "slayer-logi" and "logis are support they're supposed to suck". And i,not the players insulting me,got banned for a month. It was before this thread was even made. And logistics still sucks now as it did waaay back then. So yes,i understand the struggle to keep your class relevant. That being said,i only run logistics so my opinion on the plight of scouts means nothing. I can only competently suggest changes in my area of knowledge. So i'll leave the eWAR talk to other folks. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1540	Posted - 2015.02.23 23:33:00 - [143] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: I came here to try to solve a problem, not to play games with trolls. I don't know and don't care to know whatever it is you're getting at above. If you've something constructive to contribute, I'm all ears, but consider your hostilities ignored. Adipem, I think what el OPERATOR is implying is that you need to take your scout QQ about scanners back to the scout thread. It has nothing to do with improving the logistics class and does not need to be discussed in this thread. (If I'm wrong el OPERATOR I apoligize now) What I'm saying is stop trying to derail this thread with garbage that does not directly benefit the improvement of the logistics class. If it is so important to you, then start another thread in F&B and have a proper discussion there. If you want to help the Logistics class, great stay and participate with ideas that benefit us. If you want to QQ about the UP scout class do it else where. Not that i'm taking sides but the thread is called Logistics + Support. And eWAR as well as providing assistance through nonlethal methods is support. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1540	Posted - 2015.02.23 23:34:00 - [144] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Hi Mr Goo, I suspect that my goals and your goals are more intimately connected than you realize. OP Heavy/Logi blobs and OP GalLogi scans are two very goods reasons why not to buff the Logistics class, and the Logistics class might have been buffed sooner if its OP elements weren't playing leading roles in pubstomps and PC. Your expressed goal (a better Logi) and my expressed goal (balanced EWAR) are two variables in the same equation. We could be working together on this, and I see no reason why we shouldn't so long as balance remains a mutual goal. So your threatening logistics because you don't likt their bonuses? Nice Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1540	Posted - 2015.02.23 23:36:00 - [145] - Quote Dementia Maniaclease wrote: Cass Caul wrote: - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive maximum nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and 5% to repair amount per leveland +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and 5% to repair amount per level and +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and +2 to maximum spawn count per level - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to maximum spawn count per level. and +2% to active scan angle per level. and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level and 5% to repair amount per level I agree with this... And more HP, not a lot more just a touch The ALT is strong with this one. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1540	Posted - 2015.02.23 23:48:00 - [146] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Well, I proposed a relatively long period of constant repping (1min) that should be enough to fight of several incoing mercs (more than 2-3). If you play the overheated tool right, you would have even better chances to fight two incoming heavies at once. When on cooldown, you could give firesupport with the logi (you carry a weapon do you). I had good success using a MD in those situations, since it has a good shock and awe effect on many mercs. If you have two incoming MinSents with burst HMGs your Heavy is toast anyway, and you are better of to run your ass of and get to safety... "Logis rep too much and should be forced to shoot things." Really? Dude that's what got logistics nerfed before. And you just admitted in a round about way that you want slayer-logis back. Which would obviously lead to another nerf for the whole class. NO! Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1540	Posted - 2015.02.23 23:59:00 - [147] - Quote Don't forget,a logistics repping is a logistics not shooting. Even if they are latched onto a fully healed ally. Logistics got in trouble for shooting,now players want to punish them for repping. It's absolutely stupid. It's getting to the point where logistics can't do anything without suffering some sort of punishment for it. And it's mind blowing that players think punishment is a good reward for doing your roles intended purpose. And yes,overheat is punishment. Inb4 tactics,boring,or skill used inappropriately. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1540	Posted - 2015.02.24 03:26:00 - [148] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: @Meee One. Logis were overperforming as slayers, that is what got them into trouble, not that they were killing anyone at all. All suits should have some viability with shooting other players. A balanced Logi should be able to rep, provide scans, and shoot mercs among other supporting actions. It becomes imbalanced when the degree to which they do any of the above results in over performance and abuse. That goes the same for any suit or vehicle. Well,if my ability to rep gets reduced via overheat. My shooting time increases because of overheat. I personally picked logistics so thay my shooting responsibilities would be minimal,and yet players want to reduce my supporting ability? Lolno Mad is saying he wants an overheat to add skill and he's bored. All he has to do is stop repping and shoot,but as rep tools are infinite he wouldn't have a valid excuse to give squad mates. So instead of being candid with his crew he comes here to try to have an excuse made for him. It's terribly childish,and i can see through it easily. He doesn't want to be a logistics,he wants to be an assault with more than 1 equipment slot. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1551	Posted - 2015.02.26 07:06:00 - [149] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Why should stealth get to be the bargain instead of detection? I don't know that this is a reasonable premise, Gyn Wallace. Stealth isn't getting a bargain as running around in a 400HP Scout Suit is not a low risk activity. It is certainly more risky than using an Active Scanner while embedded among friendlies. Lol. Now you're starting to sound like a logi hater. Let me too make an equally stupid comparison. What if when you were going to KN someone they had to press X to accept? Injectors require X to call for help (one hit heal),why don't KN require X for permission to kill (one hit kill)? My point? Things aren't as one colored as you are trying to get sympathizers to believe. And if you continue bashing logistics,imma have to debunk your posts. For example: >Risky >Cal scout 50 sp/s and lowest delay The door is that way. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1552	Posted - 2015.02.27 18:12:00 - [150] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Adjusted the original google docs to reflect some of my feelings for a more survivable logi, I backed off on the better shield recharge (that seemed more like an Assault thing) to add better hacking and better ewar. Adjusted bonues, increased strafe speed, etc. Set up new slot layouts and tier progression. Left the whole sidearm thing to CCP to deal with, but provided options. The ewar precision and range is random numbers, i did not check what the values would be if maxed out (sorry). But it is still something, numbers that CCP wants provided (as they say - players doing the legwork). Can always go higher on the range... but will have to number test it so it doesn't become a Cal Scout issue of seeing the entire battlefield again. Please, tell me what you think. RedBleach's Logi Proposal ...You reduced scan accuracy and stamina,as well as stamina pool,for 10%on scan radius? Lol no I actually prefer cross',i'll survive longer. I don't know how to feel about that. Happy that logistics are buffed? Sad that the buffs are low? I'll go with happy i spose' that stamina will come in useful. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1553	Posted - 2015.03.01 03:21:00 - [151] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Oh dear, I'm sorry I stumbled on your private thread and started ruining your discussion by talking about balance. I suppose it would be best to never interact with the logistics community then, as you are clearly the only one capable of understanding the deep, intricate balance problems at the heart of Dust. I guess the idea that logistics should be buffed is a terrible one when it's coming from somebody who doesn't play logi 24/7. Balance is not a one way road. It's not some thread where you try to whisper into the ears of the CPM and shun anybody who isn't part of your sekret klub. It affects everyone, so I suggest you get used to the idea of criticizing an argument based on its merits, instead of shooting it down because you don't like who's saying it. >The barber shop. Hypocrite. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1553	Posted - 2015.03.01 03:30:00 - [152] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: - Another thing we might consider is switching Assault movement speed with Logi movement speed. This would make sense becasue of two reasons: 1. A suit that has less HP should probably be quicker than its counter part with more HP. 2. The job of the Logi involves running around a lot, so this would be a nice buff for Logis to become better at their job. I appreciate that lots of logis would prefer the speed, I also see the merit in making logis the second slowest and tankiest suits, right behind heavies. What about covering that range of speed/tank balance within the logi class? In other words, making the Amarr logi almost as slow and tanky as a heavy, and making the Minmatar logi almost as fast and lightly tanked as a scout? In other words on the continuum of Tankiness and slowness: Scouts -Min Logi - Cal Logi - Gal logi - Amar Logi - Heavies with assaults somewhere in the middle? The flexibility of a plated and shield extended Amar logi approaching the eHP of a heavy and a kincat Min logi approaching the speed of a scout is appealing to me. I'm also fine with that kincat Min Logi being paper thin, and that Amar logi being as brutally slow as a heavy. I've love to be able to keep up with a scout squad, or survive with a point defense Heavy squad, instead of being stuck in the middle or at either end of that continuum. I'd love to use that kincat min logi as my initial uplink deployer instead of a scout suit. I'd love to switch to that Amar logi, if I know I'm being deployed (and transported to the point) with a heavy. The problem is eHP made logistics to be FOTM. Personally i've found speed and stamina are much better than eHP,i survive longer. As to tiercide,i'm with that... But has anyone considered the new meta-lock in that scenario(or its current scenario)? Basic logistics vs (enemy) adv gear Adv logistics vs (enemy) Pro gear Pro logistics vs (enemy) Officer gear I predict unless safety proofed for,future logistics will be put up against enemies a gear level up from them. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1554	Posted - 2015.03.01 19:07:00 - [153] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: 1. Maybe we should put the scout discussion somewhere else, but I think right now, the scouts are not recon, but infiltration units. 2. For that I've proposed a special EQ for them: Stealth Uplinks, they'd have 5 spawns and would be undetectable by any scanner, and they'd have super fast spawn times. These would allow a full squad spawn in, that would obviously consist of one or two logis plus several slayers to take an objective. 3. Good E-war on logis makes sense because they are so squishy. They should be able to see the scout flanking in their back first, to give them any chance to evade or react. 4. For scout recon, I'd like to see SR visual scans (line of sight) being shared with squad or team... this would give snipers a role apart from being an annoying bunch of campers, maybe just a skill for scout suits... 1. "STD Logis need +1 EQ slot b/c Role Bleed potential by STD Scout" is no more or less pertinent than "Recon Scouts need new roles b/c of Role Bleed by GalLogi". So long as EWAR overlap remains at issue between the two classes, we've little choice but to discuss the classes jointly when it comes to EWAR. Further, any discussion involving EWAR changes should take into account effects on and perspectives of all EWAR-oriented classes. 2. I like this. 3. The problem with passive scans is that they're potentially shared six ways. An EWAR Logi might be squishy, but the Heavy he's repping isn't squishy, nor is the blob which surrounds him. All potentially benefit from his passive scans. AM and CA Scouts suited for Recon were significantly squishier than Logis (like 300HP squishy) yet their strong scans were ruled to be imbalanced, even after cloakblind! The "squishiness" factor proved to be an insufficient counter-balance and their scans were ruled to be "OP Wallhacks" ... and this was for units whose only competitive function was to provide zero-WP scans. Imagine the tears had those scans come from a tankier, multi-function and WP-saturated EWAR Logi. 4. I like this as well. Idea: EWAR Untangled - Scouts as Scouts & Logis as Support * Remove Scan Range, Scan Precision bonuses from CA and AM Scouts. * Buff Scan Precision and/or Range of all Logis. * Remove and replace bonus to Active Scans from GA Logi. * Racially rebrand Active Scanners (AM Scanners squad-wide, CA Scanners team-wide). * AM Scout receives Precision and/or Duration bonus to AM Scanners. * CA Scout receives Cooldown and/or Range bonus to CA Scanners. * Tune Passive and Active Scans where needed to adjust for any imbalance. No. Scouts got low BW because they're only supposed to be good with 1 equipment,cloaks. Scouts are infiltrators. Providing scans is support. Stop trying to get GalLogis nerfed because they are the hard counter to scouts. Scouts were considered OP because passives run 100% of the time where actives run once every 30 seconds. Scouts had high speed,2 weapons,100% scans 100% of the time,were invisible,and have crazy high stamina,they deserved their nerf. You keep complaining about the "blob",logistics was designed to need a "blob". Safety in numbers and all that. A good "blob" protects their logistics. Logistics contribute non-combatitively (logistically aka support) with reps,ammo,and for those with bad eWAR,active scans. All of that is logistical work. A smart logistics sticks with the "blob". You're not actually complaining that eWAR for scanners is OP,you're complaining logistics aren't more stupid so that they'd wonder off by themselves. Now go away before i report you for trolling. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1555	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:13:00 - [154] - Quote The main problem with costs of equipment is that there's such a huge gap in tier performance. BDR-8:75 on a single target Six Kin:88 on two targets. Thats 13x2 hp/s loss. On weapons the change in damage is maybe 1 point per tier. I think ADV should get 2 targets,with the Pro having higher reps. It would make ADV not feel as worthless by comparison. ------ I'd like any possible updates if available. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1555	Posted - 2015.03.03 16:36:00 - [155] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Meee One wrote: The main problem with costs of equipment is that there's such a huge gap in tier performance. BDR-8:75 on a single target Six Kin:88 on two targets. Thats 13x2 hp/s loss. On weapons the change in damage is maybe 1 point per tier. I think ADV should get 2 targets,with the Pro having higher reps. It would make ADV not feel as worthless by comparison. ------ I'd like any possible updates if available. you forgot the price comparison BDR-8= 8070 ISK Six Kin = 2163 ISK Thats why when I try to cut costs I use the Core Repair tool. 70 HPS 13215 ISK It is worth the extra 5000 ISK for the two streams. Which is why ADV needs 2 as well. No other class is forced into Pro gear for such dramatic performance increase. But i just thought of possible bonuses for the repair tool for the other races. Min-High rep amount (Current) Amarr- Armor Damage resistance Cal-Shield damage resistance Gal-increased weapons efficiency (slower heat build up,faster reload,lower kick,etc.) Since nanites run the world,why not have the individual logistics be able to focus them towards additional functions. With this it becomes more desired to have more logistics,rather than just Min. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1559	Posted - 2015.03.04 08:03:00 - [156] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Meee One wrote: The main problem with costs of equipment is that there's such a huge gap in tier performance. BDR-8:75 on a single target Six Kin:88 on two targets. Thats 13x2 hp/s loss. On weapons the change in damage is maybe 1 point per tier. I think ADV should get 2 targets,with the Pro having higher reps. It would make ADV not feel as worthless by comparison. ------ I'd like any possible updates if available. you forgot the price comparison BDR-8= 8070 ISK Six Kin = 2163 ISK Thats why when I try to cut costs I use the Core Repair tool. 70 HPS 13215 ISK It is worth the extra 5000 ISK for the two streams. Which is why ADV needs 2 as well. No other class is forced into Pro gear for such dramatic performance increase. But i just thought of possible bonuses for the repair tool for the other races. Min-High rep amount (Current) Amarr- Armor Damage resistance Cal-Shield damage resistance Gal-increased weapons efficiency (slower heat build up,faster reload,lower kick,etc.) Since nanites run the world,why not have the individual logistics be able to focus them towards additional functions. With this it becomes more desired to have more logistics,rather than just Min. Good Points All :) Particularly Tiering of equipment and the performance gaps is stupid huge, but careful how its phrased as a DEV may decide to nerf reps to make them more equal ... more to add to my logi list of things to do :) ADV 2 Streamers is a good idea. I like the ideas for the added effects of the streams, could be really awesome. I question the Gal from a lore standpoint of valuing life and all that stuff - a damage increase doesn't seem to fit them... if we are just spitballing ideas I wonder what else.... I could see Ammo resupply in there as well. Actually the rep gap between ADV and Pro is only so large because of dual beams. As an alternative Gal bonus how about module efficiency? They would then increase the efficiency of modules already present on the suit,aiding in survival. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1560	Posted - 2015.03.04 16:43:00 - [157] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Meee One wrote: As an alternative Gal bonus how about module efficiency? They would then increase the efficiency of modules already present on the suit,aiding in survival. I am assuming when you say module efficiency here, you actually mean efficacy as CCP uses the term, as in, increasing the output of the module, say x% more HP out of a HP module, and not fitting efficiency. In which case, not a good idea. I should hope I don't have to remind anyone of the original Cal logi shield module efficacy bonus? And the problems that ensued at least partially because of it... We are all hopefully trying to make all logistics suits better, as in worth running and balanced, making one logi suit the obviously best choice for "slayers" who want multiple equipment slots doesn't in my mind serve that purpose. And even if giving the Gal logi an efficacy bonus to a non-direct HP module (though, which one?), it would still differentiate the Gal logi very much from the other logis, who are equipment oriented... Which really is what the role is supposed to mainly be about, yes? (At least according to the very much equipment oriented bonuses all the logistics suits currently have.) And if you do mean efficiency as in fitting efficiency, of a certain type of module... you are still enabling potentially more HP tanking on the gal logi (in comparison to the other logi suits), while also detracting from the equipment orientation of the suit. >Didn't read the post i was responding to. I was talking about the rep target. Like Min has higher rep amount,Gal would increase the module efficiency on the suit it's repairing not itself. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1561	Posted - 2015.03.04 21:02:00 - [158] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Meee One wrote: I was talking about the rep target. Like Min has higher rep amount,Gal would increase the module efficiency on the suit it's repairing not itself. Well, thank ****. Because I was thinking you'd lost it for good. As if i ever had it to begin with. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1561	Posted - 2015.03.04 21:16:00 - [159] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If so, would it not stand to reason that battlefields permascanned at 21dB might be to blame? If people running assault suits start shifting to scout suits to avoid scans, that does not suggest that scans are too strong against assaults. It suggests that scans are too weak against scouts. How unsurprising that you would get that backwards. Even if not explicitly advocating to nerf logi scans, you have a knack for framing an issue as though they're OP, even in circumstances that suggest that scans are really under-powered. Let's play this out ... Assumption: GalLogi scans are UP; Scouts are OP. Scenario: Heavy Blob meta changes on account of HMG nerf. Instead of an increase in Assault usage, we observe an increase in Scout usage. The best response to the OP Scout is to buff UP GalLogi scans. Now, instead of everyone but Scouts always being scanned (like today), everyone including Scouts are always scanned. If everyone is always scanned, why would anyone run a squishy, dampened Scout? OP Scouts suddenly become UP Scouts, with nothing having changed other than the strength of the GalLogi's scans. Next move: Nerf GalLogi scans. And nerf them hard enough for dampened Assaults to beat permascan and compete with Scouts; anything less, and we're back to where we began. Why do assaults need to hide again? Weren't they given 160 extra eHP and 8-9 slots so they wouldn't have to? Yes,yes they were. Aren't scouts supposed to be better at sneaking? Yes,yes they are. Undetectable? No Hard to scan? Yes TBH the buff to dampening should've been given to logistics along with the range buff. It's because of those shenanigans that now players are saying 400+ eHP suits need to be invisible to scans. Dampeners on anything but scouts is a lol fit and should'nt be taken seriously as a campaign slogan. And i notice you keep mentioning assaults. I have a feeling that you know that when any discussion comes between assault vs logistics,logistics always loses. And you are showing equipment envy,obviously because of those 2 equipment slots. So i've a solution to that. Remove 1 equipment from scouts and give it to commandos. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1561	Posted - 2015.03.04 21:18:00 - [160] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Which is why where we are currently and what we have makes for tentative balance. Scans can scan, and fully invested stealth can stealth. What we have now are competitive battlefields permascanned at 21dB. Whether or not that "makes for tentative balance" is debatable. There is a distinct absence of interplay and options for non-Scouts. But if you have your way scouts will be undetectable,ever. Because if assaults can beat scans scouts could much more easily. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1567	Posted - 2015.03.11 03:27:00 - [161] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: For the short term (like maybe get it in echo short term) can you bring up having logi slot setup match their assault counterparts? I don't get why my AmAssault is 1/3 and my AmLogi is 2/2. There's one change i'd like. Convert all 1 weapon logistics sidearm slot to an equipment slot. Then have weapon swap quickly switch between the two. After that,give Amarr + (possibly) Cal logistics +1 equipment (in the normal place on the suit). +CPU/PG =All logistics officially have more equipment than scouts. On another topic. Would a capacitor variant be possible for hives and uplinks? For example: -Starts with 2 'charges' -deploy 1 -1 'charge' remains,but it automatically refills Benefit: -'infinite' hives and uplinks Drawback: -Less carried (3 max on Ish gauged) -Can't be suit swap refilled at supply depots With the new carried increase the drawback seems sufficient. Then Amarr and Cal logistics can get a reduction to capacitor refills. (Something like 15% total.) Gal can get cooldown to scans. And Min can get more range or rep amount. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1571	Posted - 2015.03.12 20:57:00 - [162] - Quote How about a new variant of hives and uplinks? All capacitor based. Instead of hives being infinite,how about a 'tactical' version whose refills are capacitor based? Hives: Throw down a hive. Arm cloak/RE detonation prompt comes up to turn it on/off. Press the button. Sends out a pulses to refill allies. Can be done until capacitor runs out,but it does refill. Benefits: -'infinite' refills -Invisible to scans while not active Drawbacks: -lower amount deployed at a time (max 1) Uplinks: Throw down an uplink. Arm cloak/RE detonation prompt comes up to turn it on/off. Press the button. Allows respawns. Can be done until capacitor runs out,but it does refill. Benefits: -'infinite' spawns -Invisible to scans while not active Drawbacks: -low spawn amount (3-5) Then,apply Cal and Am logistics bonuses. Presto,tactical equipment. Without nerfing others. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 08:27:00 - [163] - Quote So,CCP read my idea about increasing carried amout. (Yay!) But they ignored the part about it being logistics exclusive,to prevent other suits from becoming too autonomous. And still partially needing logistics support. I feel personally insulted by that. As if CCP said "we just want to buff nonequipment specialists (assaults) again,screw you equipment specialists (logistics)" Then they prominently gave me the bird. Now let's talk about myos shall we? For assaults with their high eHP and good mobility,as well as scouts with their stealth and high mobility,these are a boon. What about heavies? Meh And low mobility,low eHP logistics? Bad Well,for 1/2 of all logistics. The shield based ones. Amarr and Gal can possibly use them to some effect,i say possibly because of their low mobility.(And sacrifice little tank to do so,except ADV Gal they're boned with 0 highs) Min and Cal are screwed. Mostly Cal. Min rep range max is 30-32m.(Boundless-Flux) ARs shoot further. Cal hive range max is 10-12m(?). ( i know it's not as far as an AR shoots) And as i've seen in some videos,assaults with 600+ armor can flit around like dainty butterflies.(He has 835 eHP yet can do acrobatics like that,imagine a sumo wrestler trying to do the uneven bars) Anyone remember F-1 rocket tanks? This seems awfully similar,no? But i digress. My point is,this is yet another dramatic buff for the killing sect,but not the support sect. Sure Min can fit them,but unlike weapons which can strike from 50-90ish m they are still effectively trapped in a 20m avg range. Cal can drop hives from higher up,yet because hives cannot be thrown like grenades or even REs () this limits their potential even more. Did i mention logistics low eHP? Yeah. So to sum up,killing has become more flexible and easy to do,and support has become even more dangerous and difficult. FFS CCP stop half-assing and give assaults 4 equipment,100% dampening,invisibility,and 3 weapons already. You've effectively gotten to the point where everyone in the logistics community can see you only care about assaults,and feign care for any other class. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 08:33:00 - [164] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: This tells me scouts need more bandwidth. We don't want Scouts stepping on the Logi's toes. We do want Scouts to actually use their class bonus and run cloak. PS: Played lots of Ambush yesterday. Noticed fewer heavies but far more Logis than before. Even a few Battle Logi (had to plug one of 'em 3x with a Creodron SG!). Not sure what's up, but a drop in Scouts and an increase in Logis certainly isn't what I expected to see. Really? You worry about a scout being able to deploy all equipment at once seriously? I would be more worried that they can't . If you think about it, a scout is meant to shape the battlefield for incoming forces, drop links and hives appropriately or eliminate sentries around a perimeter. Usually its a struggle to do both tasks and even harder when half your equipment disappears when you drop it for the team running or spawning in behind you. The Logi being slower by far than the scouts follows the main force, propping up the team with additional links, hives and reps. There is no stepping on toes here just plain common sense, or battle logic. In the early days of the biggest nerf of the game when Logis took a huge hit, we all used the scouts to fill the gap because why not, now with the slight changes to the Logi to return it to some of its proper glory, many have gone back to using the Logi, and moreover its the best suit to make WP in. I can make, out of one use of each equipment slot, 130wp from one spawn, one rep cycle, one revive in an ambush. The scout is close but still misses out on a third or more of the WP gain based on the same items. Yesterday I saw a commando pull out a rep tool on a logibro...OMG a Commando Logi!! Watch out guys limit his bandwidth! You close your mouth you logi wannabe. Commandos should've gotten a second equipment slot,not scouts. They trade eHP and thousands of rounds in a lost heavy weapon,and even slots. Scouts trade nothing. Scouts are scrubs,and are supposed to suck with equipment. You are supposed to be the last resort niche suit,not the go-to first deploy suit. Learn your place. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:01:00 - [165] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: ... TLDR ... FFS CCP stop half-assing and give assaults 4 equipment,100% dampening,invisibility,and 3 weapons already. You've effectively gotten to the point where everyone in the logistics community can see you only care about assaults,and feign care for any other class. QQ much? Well, if it looks like cow poop and smells like cow poop,it's probably cow poop. Amirite? I hate grey. The whole 'every class is important' malarkey. Then through their own actions they show that only 1 class is important,assaults. Actions speak louder than words. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:07:00 - [166] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Whelp, I am a CB Vet Pro Logi. Its not my fault he pulled out a rep tool and it was entertaining. I play all the roles because the points are invested. I know the classes and have done pro logi and pro scout as well as pro heavy. You have an issue with scouts? Its not an discussion about what to nerf in other classes but scouts are able to play a viable support role. It is this issue of not being viable with low bandwidth that causes them to be used as front line killers and fricken jack rabbits with explosives lately. Never mind the fact that even in an explosive deploying role they can't put out 3 explosives without one destroying itself!! Scouts were given low bandwidth,because they're supposed to suck with equipment. No other class is supposed to compete effectively with logistics in equipment. Except maybe commandos. Scouts were given low rep rate because they're supposed to suck at direct attacks. No other class is supposed to compete effectively with assaults in directly attacking. Except maybe commandos. Scouts are designed for stealth,not deployment. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:18:00 - [167] - Quote I was just wondering... Why do flux grenades destroy equipment? I mean,hives say in the description that they are shielded from outside interference.(AKA flux grenades,flux OBs) Equipment has 2 life bars. An empty shield bar. A full life bar. Why do flux grenades destroy armor on equipment yet armor on dropsuits isn't scratched? Why doesn't equipment have shields despite having a shield bar? Why is do only REs refill at depots and hives? Why do REs explode instead of popping harmlessly? -I've never seen a popped hive expel all its contents to refill as i have seen REs do theirs to kill Why did scouts get 2 equipment slots instead of commandos? Why do scouts still have 2 equipment slots? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:21:00 - [168] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: ... TLDR ... FFS CCP stop half-assing and give assaults 4 equipment,100% dampening,invisibility,and 3 weapons already. You've effectively gotten to the point where everyone in the logistics community can see you only care about assaults,and feign care for any other class. QQ much? Well, if it looks like cow poop and smells like cow poop,it's probably cow poop. Amirite? I hate grey. The whole 'every class is important' malarkey. Then through their own actions they show that only 1 class is important,assaults. Actions speak louder than words. Have you tried the other classes at all? Do you try to do other things rather than just Point ***** or are you a "dedicated" logi only guy who hates it when every thing changes on you that you like about a class so you QQ about it because "it's not fair"? Respect CCP, at least until you finish making your own FPS that is a Playstation Exclusive and has at least as many players and you have to struggle with balance issues. Tell you what how about just don't brag first then whine second. >Respect known liars Yeah,two words... 'lazor focused' Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:25:00 - [169] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Whelp, I am a CB Vet Pro Logi. Its not my fault he pulled out a rep tool and it was entertaining. I play all the roles because the points are invested. I know the classes and have done pro logi and pro scout as well as pro heavy. You have an issue with scouts? Its not an discussion about what to nerf in other classes but scouts are able to play a viable support role. It is this issue of not being viable with low bandwidth that causes them to be used as front line killers and fricken jack rabbits with explosives lately. Never mind the fact that even in an explosive deploying role they can't put out 3 explosives without one destroying itself!! Scouts were given low bandwidth,because they're supposed to suck with equipment. No other class is supposed to compete effectively with logistics in equipment. Except maybe commandos. Scouts were given low rep rate because they're supposed to suck at direct attacks. No other class is supposed to compete effectively with assaults in directly attacking. Except maybe commandos. Scouts are designed for stealth,not deployment. That's a rather narrow view. Who is to say that the scout shouldn't use both their bonuses and both of their equipment slots for equipment? The shimmer weave scouts have now can hardly be described as a cloak, nor is it stealthy when it glows on your screen. If you look at the current Meta, most scouts appear to not use cloaks or just in limited capacity, and rather just run around with explosives and hack objectives, shotty everything to death. Their role needs diversity not a one fit does it situation the bandwidth imposes. Who's to say,you ask. CCP,i exclaim. Mid post,right above 'Quality over Quantity'. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:27:00 - [170] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: I was just wondering... Why do flux grenades destroy equipment? I mean,hives say in the description that they are shielded from outside interference.(AKA flux grenades,flux OBs) Equipment has 2 life bars. An empty shield bar. A full life bar. Why do flux grenades destroy armor on equipment yet armor on dropsuits isn't scratched? Why doesn't equipment have shields despite having a shield bar? Why is do only REs refill at depots and hives? Why do REs explode instead of popping harmlessly? -I've never seen a popped hive expel all its contents to refill as i have seen REs do theirs to kill Why did scouts get 2 equipment slots instead of commandos? Why do scouts still have 2 equipment slots? [Warning Troll Bait] Because Rainbows were taken. Ever wonder if you can see beyond yourself? Ever Wonder if you have drunk enough of the juice yet? If you still wonder please Ignore my post right here and move on. Scouts have 2 equipment slots to allow for a support role ability. This abiity is Hindered by bandwidth limitations quite severely. See my last post to 100% discredit your scouts for support bs. Are we done yet? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:44:00 - [171] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Meee One wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Whelp, I am a CB Vet Pro Logi. Its not my fault he pulled out a rep tool and it was entertaining. I play all the roles because the points are invested. I know the classes and have done pro logi and pro scout as well as pro heavy. You have an issue with scouts? Its not an discussion about what to nerf in other classes but scouts are able to play a viable support role. It is this issue of not being viable with low bandwidth that causes them to be used as front line killers and fricken jack rabbits with explosives lately. Never mind the fact that even in an explosive deploying role they can't put out 3 explosives without one destroying itself!! Scouts were given low bandwidth,because they're supposed to suck with equipment. No other class is supposed to compete effectively with logistics in equipment. Except maybe commandos. Scouts were given low rep rate because they're supposed to suck at direct attacks. No other class is supposed to compete effectively with assaults in directly attacking. Except maybe commandos. Scouts are designed for stealth,not deployment. That's a rather narrow view. Who is to say that the scout shouldn't use both their bonuses and both of their equipment slots for equipment? The shimmer weave scouts have now can hardly be described as a cloak, nor is it stealthy when it glows on your screen. If you look at the current Meta, most scouts appear to not use cloaks or just in limited capacity, and rather just run around with explosives and hack objectives, shotty everything to death. Their role needs diversity not a one fit does it situation the bandwidth imposes. Who's to say,you ask. CCP,i exclaim. Mid post,right above 'Quality over Quantity'. Wow, consider that in the brief time you have been arguing with me if they should have more bandwidth you still haven't asked how much more and yet you claim CCP has said what you are saying and you are also calling them liars. I have a really hard time reading any of your posts. Note, I did not once specify that I want to run a scout Logi. Also note that equipment costs on bandwidth apply to the other suits you spawn into so if you deployed in a Logi, dropped links and hives then switched to your scout to go hack, all your equipment dies. Thats not Quality over Quantity that is a lack of needed bandwidth to be what you need to when you need to be it. Its even worse when you switch to a Heavy from a Logi. As much as you appear to rage, it doesn't change the fact that I believe there is an issue here that need addressing. Wow,you can't read. Go back,and read the paragraph above 'Quality over quantity'. Above,not below,not beside. On top of. Oh yes i called them liars,but that doesn't change the fact they set the rules. You are a hypocrite,because you say 'respect CCP' and as soon as i link you to a post made by CCP to shut you up you write it off as bunk and worthless. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1572	Posted - 2015.03.14 09:49:00 - [172] - Quote Cross is there a way to block people from posting scout sympathy requests here? Logistics is and has been broken for over 7 months and seeing these spoiled brats posting as if they actually have problems is tedious and detracts from the overall discussion. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.

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