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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:10:00 - [61] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Role: priority target, AV, Sentinel CQC, Commando suppressor. Mostly of note are drop uplinks. They diminish the value of needles, rep tools and map control by making it easy to spam out seemingly dozens of the things into an area making it almost impodsible to clear them. Needles are in disfavor because uplinks are cleaner and more reliable. Rep tools: easy to use. Rarely deployed. There needs to be a shield rep tool badly so shield tankeers can compete with active rep armor suits. Nanohives: armor rep hives allow solo pubstars to eliminate the need for squad support. Most players use them in preference to rep tools as dropping two armor hives is more efficient than a rep logi. Needles: hardly anyone uses em. Most people prefer using uplink respawns. Scanners: have replaved most battlefield resupply and support tools as preferred method Commandos: have no functional value over the new assaults beyond better weapon selection and poorer fitting capability. The slower speed is going to kill them. very wrong.. needles are good. they save clones ticking down in all game modes most notably ambush while uplinks are there to give players a faster way back to the hot zone at the time and most every logi should be running with a needle at all times.. typical loadout would be Needle rep-tool uplink.. or Needle, reptool,hive.. or sometimes in amboosh Needle, uplink,hive My point was uplinks as mobile spawn points that can be dropped a dozen at a time lessen the need for recovery equipment. It's often faster to have four people revive at an uplink than to needle and rep each one. Also uplinks reduce the need for map control and good movement habits. because uplink spam means you can instapop back up right on top of a contested objective. In all cases except outliers, he who spams links wins. I don't think one piece of equipment should overshadow all others that much. i still disagree as on field recovery is less of a chore then waiting 3 to 15 seconds to drop back.. or even spawning at a CRU and running back or getting camped at the CRU by cloaky scout or heavy. [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 762	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:12:00 - [62] - Quote I primarily run Min Logi. STD in Pubs, ADV/PRO in FW, and PRO in PC. 1. Equipment spam has got to go. Hey, hey, ho, ho! Even something as simple as removing all dropped equipment when changing fits. Respawn in the same fit? Equipment stays. Not sure how easy of a hotfix this would be. This is a double edged sword, as my Link Spam fit and Hive Spam fit would not be usable one right after the other, but maybe this is a good thing? 2. One equipment bonus on a suit that is made to carry a wide range of equipment? That makes no sense to me, especially when two races get the better end of it with rep tools and links. A flat 15% bonus to all equipment (while still keeping the current main equipment bonus) would go a long way in helping out the pack mules. 3. eHP has been "king" for a while, but I am not looking for Logis to have any extra HP. They should be able to regen much faster than other suits imho. They are already slower, with less HP, and no sidearm. What is the big deal if they can duck behind cover and quickly get back to supporting their team? A slow speed, low HP, slow regen suit in combat is a terrible support suit if it can't stay alive long enough to do its damn job. Provide efficacy bonuses to Shield and Armor Regen modules? I started a thread on this subject and it turned into Slayer Logi QQ... 4. Add. An. Accept. Revive. Prompt. Good lord, why is this not a thing yet? 5. Quick switch to favorite equipment. We have no sidearm, so why can't we add a favorite equipment slot, that pressing R2 will quick switch to? This idea has been brought up many times, and always seems to fall by the wayside. 6. Please dial in the select wheel, I swear that thing is more finicky than that gold digging Kate Upton. The delay and lack of accuracy makes switching equipment frustrating sometimes in the heat of battle. See number 5 above. There are a lot of good ideas in this thread so far. Shayz also has some great suggestion threads as well. How many of these are feasible to implement, I have no idea. I'm just glad it is finally on the table. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2717	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:12:00 - [63] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: i disagree with your injector rant.. in charlie(or was it delta) they are getting changed.. pro get more WP as standard/mil get less.. OH and lets not forget Pro also Rep80%+ of the persons armor This has been delayed due to an unexpected tech barrier. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:12:00 - [64] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: I didn't read anyones post above me so may be repeating someone else: Logis should have High ehp with crappy recharge/repair rates to take some hits while doing logi work so the logi/slayer role would be less desirable than pure slayer (assault). Logis spamming equipment is still ridiculous, 4 different SETS of hives spammed, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS, go to supply depot, 4 SETS of uplinks, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS of links, and suddenly the enemy team hits a LAG WALL when they get in range of all the spam. Would love to see a hard cap on equipment one player can drop to keep the garbage spam logis from filling rooms/areas with so much equipment that one flux gives the other team an orbital ( if you manage to get close enough to the lag wall to limp arm a flux) Please fix lame spam/glitch 9 uplinks at the highest point of a map, usually 2 feet inside a wall texture where even a flux can't remove it. Don't know if it is fixable but how about you need a 3 meter radius of flat ground surrounding an area for an uplink to 'stick'. 1 flux nade wipes out everything around a supply depo but yes it does get a little laggy at times [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2717	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:18:00 - [65] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I didn't read anyones post above me so may be repeating someone else: Logis should have High ehp with crappy recharge/repair rates to take some hits while doing logi work so the logi/slayer role would be less desirable than pure slayer (assault). Logis spamming equipment is still ridiculous, 4 different SETS of hives spammed, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS, go to supply depot, 4 SETS of uplinks, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS of links, and suddenly the enemy team hits a LAG WALL when they get in range of all the spam. Would love to see a hard cap on equipment one player can drop to keep the garbage spam logis from filling rooms/areas with so much equipment that one flux gives the other team an orbital ( if you manage to get close enough to the lag wall to limp arm a flux) Please fix lame spam/glitch 9 uplinks at the highest point of a map, usually 2 feet inside a wall texture where even a flux can't remove it. Don't know if it is fixable but how about you need a 3 meter radius of flat ground surrounding an area for an uplink to 'stick'. 1 flux nade wipes out everything around a supply depo but yes it does get a little laggy at times Perhaps I'm just lucky but even when actively trying to create the equipment lag situation (several full proto logi deploying everything they could around the underground bunker depot) I have yet to encounter this myself which makes me strongly wonder if the equipment/lag correlation isn't either a false positive or more complex than simply 'more equip = more lag'. However, even with my own testing regimes giving a negative result on that correlation, there is clearly still something happening and this serves as a good reminder to investigate further and talk with CCP about it in greater depth. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2717	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:20:00 - [66] - Quote Keep it coming folks, and tell the support players you know to get in here. I want to catch all perspectives, Assaults/Heavy receiving support, Scouts running light-support, new bro logi just starting out, long time logi vets, let's get it all. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 126	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:22:00 - [67] - Quote Primarily a Min logi, but run Cal or Amarr if hives or uplinks are needed more than reps. The repair tool The more I think about logi squishiness, the more I think the solution is adding a self-repair function to the repair tool. When a logi hits their aim down sights button with the repair tool equipped, it should repair their own armor, perhaps at a reduced repair rate. When a target's armor is at full value, the repair tool should reduce the shield repair delay. Please note, a logi's ability to tank damage would improve, but using this improvement would necessitate equipping the rep tool, instead of a primary or secondary weapon, improving a logi's tank, without directly recreating the "slayer logi" problem. If logis with repair tools that could self-repair the logi were at all OP, a very modest range nerf (starting around 5%) for whatever primary and secondary weapon a logi carries should reign in any slayer logis, without completely gutting their ability to defend themselves. War Points I'd like to see war points earned for repairing other people's armor drop from +25 per tick down to +22. A very modest drop. I'd like to see war points for scanned targets killed rise from +15 to +20. A good match where I do lots of repairing might still put me at the top of the WP list, but not by the slightly ridiculous margin I sometimes see. I'm not contributing more to the team than the guys getting 40+ kills, just because I'm following them around repping them. When I team up with a heavy like that, and he leads the match for kills, and I'm repping him; we should be close to a tie for WP earned. If I also manage my time well enough to do other support work (nanohives, uplinks, needling people) I should be able to make it to the top of the WP list. Doing so pretty regularly by a margin of more than 1k, suggests to me that I might be getting a little too many WP for reps. I should be encouraged to play a logi, without discouraging the slayers I'm supporting. When I have a mediocre game, I shouldn't still outscore them on WP easily. the Needle Injecting people shouldn't be this hard for logis or the people getting griefed by bad logis. Constructive criticism is abundant on this subject; the problem seems to be CCP not having the resources to fix it. I'd love to learn whether there is something the player base can do to help. I think we can reasonably expect minor tweaks, like to the numbers suggested above. I don't expect to see any added rep tool functionality before Legion; but I'd love for there to be a process in place, like a test server, like a somewhat open source environment where players can present mods/solutions to CCP. The Eve player base is weirdly amazing in some ways that CCP hasn't fully tapped. The nanite injector is perhaps the best example of the kind of persistent failure Legion's development process should be shaped to avoid. I don't know, but suspect this is a problem that's easily solved once we get away from the PS3. One of the really good signs that CCP hasn't screwed up Legion, will be if it releases with a properly functional injector, with minimap and flags for people who actually need a rez (no ghosts), and a process to let rezed people accept or reject the rez. Different people value different things, but this kind of basic functionality is wildly more important to me than the aesthetics of various racial suits or lore. Thanks for your attention to this stuff, Cross. Polling the players, so you can hash out what to emphasize when expressing the community's concerns to CCP, so they can allocate their limited resources well, is important.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2778	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:26:00 - [68] - Quote I'm fine with bonuses to regen over the increase in HP as well, though I urge you to avoid just boosting the base stats per level. Things like adding in a +HP/second passive armor regen doesn't encourage repping fits, in fact it does the opposite. If a player can get +5HP/s passive repair, they're less encouraged to actually use armor repairs because they're no longer necessary to fit in order to have armor reps. This in turn allows Logis to stack on MORE HP than an Assault, because they don't need to use the repairer/recharger to get the same level of reps than Assault would have with the modules equipped. So if you go the regen route, I do encourage you to tie the bonus to specific modules, and not just a bonus to the base regen of the suit.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:31:00 - [69] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: i disagree with your injector rant.. in charlie(or was it delta) they are getting changed.. pro get more WP as standard/mil get less.. OH and lets not forget Pro also Rep80%+ of the persons armor This has been delayed due to an unexpected tech barrier. meh shame.. we might see it in delta with the rest of the supposed logi love/balances [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 1280	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:34:00 - [70] - Quote As far as some simple things that could improve a support logi: Increase base stamina and sprints speeds so we can get to people we are supporting faster. Like others have said, we feel pretty slow for having to move between squadmates that are spread out. Survivability increase, whether this is through some minor buffs to hp / reg, resistances, etc. More complex improvements would include: More skills bonuses on logi skills geared towards support and survival Player visual feedback when being locked on by a repair tool, this use to exist. Restore WP rewards for repairing vehicles / installations in a limited fashion( since there is already a global limit) possible limits like only enemy damage counts, outside of red zone, etc. Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:35:00 - [71] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I didn't read anyones post above me so may be repeating someone else: Logis should have High ehp with crappy recharge/repair rates to take some hits while doing logi work so the logi/slayer role would be less desirable than pure slayer (assault). Logis spamming equipment is still ridiculous, 4 different SETS of hives spammed, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS, go to supply depot, 4 SETS of uplinks, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS of links, and suddenly the enemy team hits a LAG WALL when they get in range of all the spam. Would love to see a hard cap on equipment one player can drop to keep the garbage spam logis from filling rooms/areas with so much equipment that one flux gives the other team an orbital ( if you manage to get close enough to the lag wall to limp arm a flux) Please fix lame spam/glitch 9 uplinks at the highest point of a map, usually 2 feet inside a wall texture where even a flux can't remove it. Don't know if it is fixable but how about you need a 3 meter radius of flat ground surrounding an area for an uplink to 'stick'. 1 flux nade wipes out everything around a supply depo but yes it does get a little laggy at times Perhaps I'm just lucky but even when actively trying to create the equipment lag situation (several full proto logi deploying everything they could around the underground bunker depot) I have yet to encounter this myself which makes me strongly wonder if the equipment/lag correlation isn't either a false positive or more complex than simply 'more equip = more lag'. However, even with my own testing regimes giving a negative result on that correlation, there is clearly still something happening and this serves as a good reminder to investigate further and talk with CCP about it in greater depth. Cheers, Cross perhaps the lag is due to people on one side of the atlantic putting down dozens of deployables and people on the other side beign effective due to ping/latency? [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:41:00 - [72] - Quote random Injector idea.. maybe if they had a charge up timer a little akin to active scanners.. (warning, math isnt a strong suit of mine) Mil - 10sec (7.5) std - 8sec (6) adv - 6sec (4.5) pro - 4sec (3) these times will be effected by Logi bonus so they would be 25% less at Logi 5 on logi suit so this way they cannot be troll-whored like in FW and there is more reason to use higher level injectors over lower level* pending WP balance on reviveing players [LogiBro in Training]* channel: BP SQUAD
Major IMPACT Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 5	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:49:00 - [73] - Quote Caldari Ck.0 Logi Suits : -In my opinion, logi suits are supposed to be the support role, not to be the greatest customization in the game with the highest equipment slots and many H/L slots. Might get mixed feedback, but I suggest adding a sidearm to all logi race suits- MIn, Amarr, Cal, Gal. -Decreased ammo capacity for primary weapon per clip by 15% or so (Got to be for the exchange of firepower for equipment) -Increased movement speed and maximum stamina Equipment: -Remote Explosives really needs to be regulated. As suggested in earlier comments, REs should not be resupplied on hives or supply depot. I agree with it transferred to grenades (It is the only equipment that can both kill infantry, destroy tanks, and are conveniently resupplied on hives and supply depot) -Nanite injectors- A per-charge, like the nova knifes. The more charged, the more armor is repaired. (I suggest a new, different type of needle) -Knife Sharpener- Sharpens nova knifes for more trouble ............(dont take this one) *PS I havent read ALL the comments. I apologize if an idea is repeated. Caldari logi- Ruler of Nanites
Major IMPACT Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 5	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:51:00 - [74] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: random Injector idea.. maybe if they had a charge up timer a little akin to active scanners.. (warning, math isnt a strong suit of mine) Mil - 10sec (7.5) std - 8sec (6) adv - 6sec (4.5) pro - 4sec (3) these times will be effected by Logi bonus so they would be 25% less at Logi 5 on logi suit so this way they cannot be troll-whored like in FW and there is more reason to use higher level injectors over lower level* *pending WP balance on reviveing players Lol, had the same thought. Caldari logi- Ruler of Nanites
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 201	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:52:00 - [75] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I'm fine with bonuses to regen over the increase in HP as well, though I urge you to avoid just boosting the base stats per level. Things like adding in a +HP/second passive armor regen doesn't encourage repping fits, in fact it does the opposite. If a player can get +5HP/s passive repair, they're less encouraged to actually use armor repairs because they're no longer necessary to fit in order to have armor reps. This in turn allows Logis to stack on MORE HP than an Assault, because they don't need to use the repairer/recharger to get the same level of reps than Assault would have with the modules equipped. So if you go the regen route, I do encourage you to tie the bonus to specific modules, and not just a bonus to the base regen of the suit. I agree that I it does go regen it is module/race specific. Things have been HP buffed before and it doesn't necessarily solve issues, it often creates more. The thing with a straight up HP buff is it will allow the QQ crowd to ***** and moan more about the "slayer" logi and 1k HP logi's following 1.5k heavies Also regarding equipment spam, I posted earlier about a timed decay on deployed equipment. As an example uplinks and hives dropped and forgotten, if they are not depleted within a certain time frame then they decay & pop. Not sure on whether that is even possible in the current HF route. But it may encourage a more tactical deployment of equipment as and when is needed as oppose to a drop and forget mechanic. It's a shame about the nanite injector WP not coming through in Charlie. There are some very good ideas knocking about all of which would give a positive effect to the logi class. However I would like to hear what CCP have in mind as what they think the logi/support role is all about. Some of the biggest issues I have seen is how everyone perceives a role. So I'm kinda asking for that feedback from CCP as it could help to focus what is and isn't possible. Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 273	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:53:00 - [76] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I didn't read anyones post above me so may be repeating someone else: Logis should have High ehp with crappy recharge/repair rates to take some hits while doing logi work so the logi/slayer role would be less desirable than pure slayer (assault). Logis spamming equipment is still ridiculous, 4 different SETS of hives spammed, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS, go to supply depot, 4 SETS of uplinks, go to supply depot, 4 more SETS of links, and suddenly the enemy team hits a LAG WALL when they get in range of all the spam. Would love to see a hard cap on equipment one player can drop to keep the garbage spam logis from filling rooms/areas with so much equipment that one flux gives the other team an orbital ( if you manage to get close enough to the lag wall to limp arm a flux) Please fix lame spam/glitch 9 uplinks at the highest point of a map, usually 2 feet inside a wall texture where even a flux can't remove it. Don't know if it is fixable but how about you need a 3 meter radius of flat ground surrounding an area for an uplink to 'stick'. 1 flux nade wipes out everything around a supply depo but yes it does get a little laggy at times Perhaps I'm just lucky but even when actively trying to create the equipment lag situation (several full proto logi deploying everything they could around the underground bunker depot) I have yet to encounter this myself which makes me strongly wonder if the equipment/lag correlation isn't either a false positive or more complex than simply 'more equip = more lag'. However, even with my own testing regimes giving a negative result on that correlation, there is clearly still something happening and this serves as a good reminder to investigate further and talk with CCP about it in greater depth. Cheers, Cross You lag less when you are actually "IN" the area of the spammed equipment, but if you are around 100m away on the opposite team and then approach the area that has been equipment spammed the ps3 starts puking and shaking.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 17:00:00 - [77] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: I primarily run Min Logi. STD in Pubs, ADV/PRO in FW, and PRO in PC. 1. Equipment spam has got to go. Hey, hey, ho, ho! Even something as simple as removing all dropped equipment when changing fits. Respawn in the same fit? Equipment stays. Not sure how easy of a hotfix this would be. This is a double edged sword, as my Link Spam fit and Hive Spam fit would not be usable one right after the other, but maybe this is a good thing? 2. One equipment bonus on a suit that is made to carry a wide range of equipment? That makes no sense to me, especially when two races get the better end of it with rep tools and links. A flat 15% bonus to all equipment (while still keeping the current main equipment bonus) would go a long way in helping out the pack mules. 3. eHP has been "king" for a while, but I am not looking for Logis to have any extra HP. They should be able to regen much faster than other suits imho. They are already slower, with less HP, and no sidearm. What is the big deal if they can duck behind cover and quickly get back to supporting their team? A slow speed, low HP, slow regen suit in combat is a terrible support suit if it can't stay alive long enough to do its damn job. Provide efficacy bonuses to Shield and Armor Regen modules? I started a thread on this subject and it turned into Slayer Logi QQ... 4. Add. An. Accept. Revive. Prompt. Good lord, why is this not a thing yet? 5. Quick switch to favorite equipment. We have no sidearm, so why can't we add a favorite equipment slot, that pressing R2 will quick switch to? This idea has been brought up many times, and always seems to fall by the wayside. 6. Please dial in the select wheel, I swear that thing is more finicky than that gold digging Kate Upton. The delay and lack of accuracy makes switching equipment frustrating sometimes in the heat of battle. See number 5 above. There are a lot of good ideas in this thread so far. Shayz also has some great suggestion threads as well. How many of these are feasible to implement, I have no idea. I'm just glad it is finally on the table. 1. i somewhat disagree.. the spam is mainly around supply depos for people to try bolster their WPs.. if we could carry more equipment (see max carried) it could be less of an issue. 2.i do agree with a level of homogenization on equipment across all 4 logi suits.. maybe a medium bonus to everything while racial specific is slightly higher. 3.with assault scouts and cloak scouts and HMGs and redline snipers we need all the hp we can get..yet that hp does nothing if its low and SLOWLY repairing.. so i would propose a 2x modifier to self armor rep modules so that would be 30hp/s on pro repper on a logi suit i believe since L5 rep skill makes complex reps 14.7hp/s or something 4.Good god yes.. this needs to be done SOON AS POSSABLE! 5.i have no issue with switching gear except on amarr logi when i sometimes switch to sidearm instead of equip 6.in the heat of battle logi needs to stay in cover alot of the time but the speed of which the window opens coudl be addressed [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 17:03:00 - [78] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I'm fine with bonuses to regen over the increase in HP as well, though I urge you to avoid just boosting the base stats per level. Things like adding in a +HP/second passive armor regen doesn't encourage repping fits, in fact it does the opposite. If a player can get +5HP/s passive repair, they're less encouraged to actually use armor repairs because they're no longer necessary to fit in order to have armor reps. This in turn allows Logis to stack on MORE HP than an Assault, because they don't need to use the repairer/recharger to get the same level of reps than Assault would have with the modules equipped. So if you go the regen route, I do encourage you to tie the bonus to specific modules, and not just a bonus to the base regen of the suit. I agree that I it does go regen it is module/race specific. Things have been HP buffed before and it doesn't necessarily solve issues, it often creates more. The thing with a straight up HP buff is it will allow the QQ crowd to *** and moan more about the "slayer" logi and 1k HP logi's following 1.5k heavies Also regarding equipment spam, I posted earlier about a timed decay on deployed equipment. As an example uplinks and hives dropped and forgotten, if they are not depleted within a certain time frame then they decay & pop. Not sure on whether that is even possible in the current HF route. But it may encourage a more tactical deployment of equipment as and when is needed as oppose to a drop and forget mechanic. It's a shame about the nanite injector WP not coming through in Charlie. There are some very good ideas knocking about all of which would give a positive effect to the logi class. However I would like to hear what CCP have in mind as what they think the logi/support role is all about. Some of the biggest issues I have seen is how everyone perceives a role. So I'm kinda asking for that feedback from CCP as it could help to focus what is and isn't possible. insted of hp buff why not damage reduction bonus? [LogiBro in Training]** channel: BP SQUAD
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 201	Posted - 2014.08.12 17:09:00 - [79] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I'm fine with bonuses to regen over the increase in HP as well, though I urge you to avoid just boosting the base stats per level. Things like adding in a +HP/second passive armor regen doesn't encourage repping fits, in fact it does the opposite. If a player can get +5HP/s passive repair, they're less encouraged to actually use armor repairs because they're no longer necessary to fit in order to have armor reps. This in turn allows Logis to stack on MORE HP than an Assault, because they don't need to use the repairer/recharger to get the same level of reps than Assault would have with the modules equipped. So if you go the regen route, I do encourage you to tie the bonus to specific modules, and not just a bonus to the base regen of the suit. I agree that I it does go regen it is module/race specific. Things have been HP buffed before and it doesn't necessarily solve issues, it often creates more. The thing with a straight up HP buff is it will allow the QQ crowd to ***** and moan more about the "slayer" logi and 1k HP logi's following 1.5k heavies Also regarding equipment spam, I posted earlier about a timed decay on deployed equipment. As an example uplinks and hives dropped and forgotten, if they are not depleted within a certain time frame then they decay & pop. Not sure on whether that is even possible in the current HF route. But it may encourage a more tactical deployment of equipment as and when is needed as oppose to a drop and forget mechanic. It's a shame about the nanite injector WP not coming through in Charlie. There are some very good ideas knocking about all of which would give a positive effect to the logi class. However I would like to hear what CCP have in mind as what they think the logi/support role is all about. Some of the biggest issues I have seen is how everyone perceives a role. So I'm kinda asking for that feedback from CCP as it could help to focus what is and isn't possible. insted of hp buff why not damage reduction bonus? Mainly because I don't see why I shouldn't be able to kill some one to defend myself. A damage reduction invalidates the SP I have invested into a weapon. Any slayer suit has a bonus to a weapon type, mine doesn't so anyone who gets a logi suit knows it is not combat efficient but can be effective. Hope that clarifies it a bit. Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 17:12:00 - [80] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I'm fine with bonuses to regen over the increase in HP as well, though I urge you to avoid just boosting the base stats per level. Things like adding in a +HP/second passive armor regen doesn't encourage repping fits, in fact it does the opposite. If a player can get +5HP/s passive repair, they're less encouraged to actually use armor repairs because they're no longer necessary to fit in order to have armor reps. This in turn allows Logis to stack on MORE HP than an Assault, because they don't need to use the repairer/recharger to get the same level of reps than Assault would have with the modules equipped. So if you go the regen route, I do encourage you to tie the bonus to specific modules, and not just a bonus to the base regen of the suit. I agree that I it does go regen it is module/race specific. Things have been HP buffed before and it doesn't necessarily solve issues, it often creates more. The thing with a straight up HP buff is it will allow the QQ crowd to *** and moan more about the "slayer" logi and 1k HP logi's following 1.5k heavies Also regarding equipment spam, I posted earlier about a timed decay on deployed equipment. As an example uplinks and hives dropped and forgotten, if they are not depleted within a certain time frame then they decay & pop. Not sure on whether that is even possible in the current HF route. But it may encourage a more tactical deployment of equipment as and when is needed as oppose to a drop and forget mechanic. It's a shame about the nanite injector WP not coming through in Charlie. There are some very good ideas knocking about all of which would give a positive effect to the logi class. However I would like to hear what CCP have in mind as what they think the logi/support role is all about. Some of the biggest issues I have seen is how everyone perceives a role. So I'm kinda asking for that feedback from CCP as it could help to focus what is and isn't possible. insted of hp buff why not damage reduction bonus? Mainly because I don't see why I shouldn't be able to kill some one to defend myself. A damage reduction invalidates the SP I have invested into a weapon. Any slayer suit has a bonus to a weapon type, mine doesn't so anyone who gets a logi suit knows it is not combat efficient but can be effective. Hope that clarifies it a bit. you missunderstand.. i ment like a Sentinel buff.. incomming damage for them is like -25% .. i was not refferign to damage OUTPUT at all. [LogiBro in Training]** channel: BP SQUAD

Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 201	Posted - 2014.08.12 17:23:00 - [81] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I'm fine with bonuses to regen over the increase in HP as well, though I urge you to avoid just boosting the base stats per level. Things like adding in a +HP/second passive armor regen doesn't encourage repping fits, in fact it does the opposite. If a player can get +5HP/s passive repair, they're less encouraged to actually use armor repairs because they're no longer necessary to fit in order to have armor reps. This in turn allows Logis to stack on MORE HP than an Assault, because they don't need to use the repairer/recharger to get the same level of reps than Assault would have with the modules equipped. So if you go the regen route, I do encourage you to tie the bonus to specific modules, and not just a bonus to the base regen of the suit. I agree that I it does go regen it is module/race specific. Things have been HP buffed before and it doesn't necessarily solve issues, it often creates more. The thing with a straight up HP buff is it will allow the QQ crowd to ***** and moan more about the "slayer" logi and 1k HP logi's following 1.5k heavies Also regarding equipment spam, I posted earlier about a timed decay on deployed equipment. As an example uplinks and hives dropped and forgotten, if they are not depleted within a certain time frame then they decay & pop. Not sure on whether that is even possible in the current HF route. But it may encourage a more tactical deployment of equipment as and when is needed as oppose to a drop and forget mechanic. It's a shame about the nanite injector WP not coming through in Charlie. There are some very good ideas knocking about all of which would give a positive effect to the logi class. However I would like to hear what CCP have in mind as what they think the logi/support role is all about. Some of the biggest issues I have seen is how everyone perceives a role. So I'm kinda asking for that feedback from CCP as it could help to focus what is and isn't possible. insted of hp buff why not damage reduction bonus? Mainly because I don't see why I shouldn't be able to kill some one to defend myself. A damage reduction invalidates the SP I have invested into a weapon. Any slayer suit has a bonus to a weapon type, mine doesn't so anyone who gets a logi suit knows it is not combat efficient but can be effective. Hope that clarifies it a bit. you missunderstand.. i ment like a Sentinel buff.. incomming damage for them is like -25% .. i was not refferign to damage OUTPUT at all. Apologies, yeah I see what you mean. It would be interesting topic all on its own that one. I could certainly see how it could be useful but the QQ level would be unprecedented and may encourage a slayer use. The question would be how to have that bonus and not have it abused in a non support role? Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 2605	Posted - 2014.08.12 17:40:00 - [82] - Quote I would like to see skills to further specialist in one equipment type. Call the skills (Equipment Type) Calibration or (Equipment Type) Proficiency. These skills would further allow logistic specialists to be the absolute best at what they do. For example... Repair Gun Calibration Prerequisite: Repair Tool Operation IV Rank x5 +2% to repair gun amount per level This is obviously something off the cuff, but you get the idea. Some other thoughts: eHP for logisitic dropsuits should not increase Increasing movement speed for logistic dropsuits would be useful and fair WP from equipment needs to be closely evaluated. Triage and Guardian rewards are too high. Intel Kill Assist is too low. Logistics dropsuits do not need a sidearm He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2779	Posted - 2014.08.12 18:08:00 - [83] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: insted of hp buff why not damage reduction bonus? HP and Damage reduction both increase effective HP. If 100 HP has 25% reduction, that means you need to do 25% more damage to kill them If 100 HP gets a 25% increase to HP, it has 125 HP and thus you need to do 25% more damage to kill them If anything Damage Reduction is better than raw HP increase, because damage reduction increases effective HP without increasing the amount of HP that needs to be repped back, meaning that your Effective Reps are also increased.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 424	Posted - 2014.08.12 18:23:00 - [84] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: I would like to see skills to further specialist in one equipment type. Call the skills (Equipment Type) Calibration or (Equipment Type) Proficiency. These skills would further allow logistic specialists to be the absolute best at what they do. For example... Repair Gun Calibration Prerequisite: Repair Tool Operation IV Rank x5 +2% to repair gun amount per level This is obviously something off the cuff, but you get the idea. Some other thoughts: eHP for logisitic dropsuits should not increase Increasing movement speed for logistic dropsuits would be useful and fair WP from equipment needs to be closely evaluated. Triage and Guardian rewards are too high. Intel Kill Assist is too low. Logistics dropsuits do not need a sidearm theres an idea... but insted of level 4 how about level 3.. and then..something of the same for other equipment Repair tool L3 -> Repair tool harmonizing +5% rep and 10% range per level nanocircuitry L3 -> Nano-proficiancy this will increase the speed of which armor is repaired by armor repairing hives and increase the max carried by 1 per level and max clusters by 2 per level a bit like caldari bonus but more useful(also change description to reflect the "hidden" 5% cpu use per level) uplink deployment L3 -> Uplink efficiency this will increase max amount of people able to use the uplink by 2 per level and decrease spawn time by 10% per level. and max carried by 1 basically amarr bonus but as a skill Active scanner operation L3 -> scanner pinpointing 10% visability duration and 5% precision per level and 10% cooldown per level basically just gallente bonus with a little extra System hacking L3 -> Virus Countermeasures Increases counter-hack speed by 15% per level(maybe 10% idk yet) a little bonus for Minja's or ewar scouts with hacker tool Cloak field op L3 -> Cloaking optimization -10% cpu and 5% pg per level a little something for scouts to stop their QQing now with these changes to skills the actual logi bonus would need to be addressed Logi suit bonus 5% reduction to PG/cpu cost of equipment(as normal) 2x modifier to armor repair modules -50% speed penalty for fitting armor plates. +100% bonus to repair tool repair amount to vehicles (perhaps opens up team play for BUFFER tank HAVs.. 25 points per 500-750 hp repaired) remove or tone down racial logi bonuses. [LogiBro in Training] channel: BP SQUAD
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1047	Posted - 2014.08.12 18:24:00 - [85] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Swarm Launchers 1) Velocity of swarm missiles needs to noticeably increase...Drop ships outrunning swarms borders on the ridiculous. I'm pretty deep into SP investment for SLs and honestly the damage they deliver now is adequate but delivering the damage to a drop ship in particular is very sketchy. Question : Wouldn't this kill the ground support ..??.. seeing as they are already at a disadvantage compared to ground vehicles V.S air support in comparison to all anti-vehicle weapons , meaning .. their are far more ways to destroy ground vehicles compared to air vehicles . The only weapons that are active in attempts at destroying air vehicles are swarms , PC ( Good luck with that ) and the forge gun , where ground vehicles have in addition RE's and NK's . Speeding up swarms would put ground vehicles at a even greater disadvantage V.S air vehicles . How about increasing closing speed the longer the swarms are in flight , so it doesn't effect the current state of swarms V.S ground vehicles but increases the chance to catch up to air vehicles the longer the swarm is active in flight . The goal should be to catch up to air vehicles and their ability to maneuver , which is far greater than ground vehicles . The longer the swarms are in flight , the faster their closing speed should be in respects to catching an air vehicle while it's trying to out maneuver the closing speed of the swarm before it self destructs . Just flat out increasing the speed would kill ground vehicles and still not solve the overall problem of air vehicles and their continued flight while trying to out maneuver the oncoming swarm attack . You have some good pilots who just know how to avoid these things where as if you increase the flight time as well as the closing speed when in flight for say , after 5 seconds or more of flight , should not throw off the fragile state of ground vehicles and what they face compared to air vehicles . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1048	Posted - 2014.08.12 19:01:00 - [86] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Mainly because I don't see why I shouldn't be able to kill some one to defend myself. A damage reduction invalidates the SP I have invested into a weapon. I don't get the first statement . Logistics by far is the weakest suit , even compared to scouts and some scouts can logi better than a logi since you have to pick a particular race to perform a certain logi role , where as scouts do not have such restrictions .. they can lay hives , rep and revive , use scanners and spawns but not get the same results as a level 5 logi and only at level 5 can you actually tell the difference . Their speed and elusiveness can get them in and out of situations faster then a logi but most of the time they have the same amount of HP's so scouts are out preforming logi's at their own role and their deadlier . I just can't understand those who suggest that Logi's should have a ammo decrease or not be able to defend themselves while they are the most defenseless role in the game by far . So what your reaping a heavy because if that heavy dies then you ability to defend yourself is decreased because you just lost your cover fire , I'm not the type of logi that doesn't help in defense while just reaping .. if I'm defending as well the chances of defeating the supposed threats increases , while reaping when needed . I play heavy so I don't expect any heavy that I reap to kill three or more adversaries while I sit there and do nothing besides reaping , I get in there as well ... granted using cover , to help rid the situation , less time fighting more adversaries the less time help can come and reinforce their numbers . A logistics trooper should be able to defend themselves . Second , so a damage increase or increase in ammo that other roles get is a validation ??? To me in most cases , that hides the fact that most people ignore skilling into increasing ammo or reload speed in their own particular weapons skill tree from the fact that a bonus from a role that they play can hide the fact that they don't are are not making that investment . Most go for just the prof and that's it in most cases , only taking reload and ammo to level 3 at the most . They should have a damage reduction of some sort and not have to trade that off in a ammo decrease or in some sort of barrier that hinders their own self-defense . Everyone is not a prototype logi and basic and standard should stand for something and be used as well , besides being a stone to stand on the way to prototype . Basic and advanced are already at a disadvantage . The sectioning off of skills i.e , reps or hives or spawns ect .. is killing the representation of all races of Logi because some bonuses ( Min and Amarr ) are clearly better than others . I for one , am tired of seeing mostly Min and Ammar logis , Gal and Amarr heavies , Gal and Cal scouts and assaults I don't see too many of them but after Charlie it will clearly be Min , Amarr and then Gal's ... there needs to be a greater representation of all races on the battlefield . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Bishop Harcourt K-A-O-S theory 17	Posted - 2014.08.12 19:01:00 - [87] - Quote Howdy Ya'll, Proto Minmatar logibro here. I had an idea based on what I perceived each races combat philosophy to be. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Amar: Mid range, slow moving continuous firefights. Give the (it hurts to type this) repp tool bonus that the Minlogi has to them. It never made much sense to give it to the logi with the lowest health and have them in the front lines. It would be better served on the most combat oriented Logistics suit, paired with the Sentinel with the highest armor HP. They would be a terror on the battlefield. Caldari: Long ranged, sustained engagements Keep the bonus to nanite injectors. Also the one to ammo nanohives, but add increase amount carried buy 1 per lvl. This would help when setting up forward and defensive positions. It will also allow for the Calogi to move with the battle as the situation dictates. Gallente: Short range, quick CQ brawlers I always thought the Galogi bonus was a little weak(the fact that its tied to the scanner, not the bonus itself), so I suggest also giving them the Calogi bonus to Armor Repair nano-hives. Give them this, but not the +1 per. This would help get Federation soldiers back in the fight faster after a brush up as well as allowing the them to know weather a counter offensive was inbound. Minmatar: Quick, hit and run Guerrilla warfare While the repper bonus is awesome, giving it to the Amlogi is (IMO) the best thing to do. So what about the Minlogi? Give them a minor(very minor I.E +1% damage per lvl) bonus to remotes/proxies and also the Amlogi's droplink bonus. Now before True starts with the "the droplinks are Amar tech" jabba wabba, hear me out. The Minmatar are about speed. Hit them hard, fast, and bug out. The bonuses I described would best fit their guerrilla tactic style of play. Setting an ambush on a supply convoy with proxie's, RE's in and around the road, with droplinks set in strategic locations. Then spawning in just as the frist proxy's blow. That to me sounds very Matari. So you other logi's mull it over and let me know. Logibro, Director, KAOS THEORY's Official Minister of Science and Magic.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 283	Posted - 2014.08.12 19:16:00 - [88] - Quote Main role: sniper. for squad play purposes a shared tacnet scan from scope or at least a tagging system would be of great use. bonus points for shooting a red dot that is attacking or within a radius of my squad, or for a revenge kill on an enemy that killed a squadmate. Secondary role: Calsent, We desperately need a shield tool on our logi bros. as our main form of tank is our shields. even with the best logi bro we have to keep taking cover, which is fine but other heavies don't. my suggestion is instead of a rep tool, a shield regulator tool which makes our kick starts our recharge. so we still have to use cover, and the shields would recharge at whatever rate our fit out uses. but as soon as we get into cover the logi bro could get our shields going. it would also mean that the logi can keep reps on the heavy for guardian points without it being op (as in infinate shields)
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 762	Posted - 2014.08.12 19:21:00 - [89] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: i disagree with your injector rant.. in charlie(or was it delta) they are getting changed.. pro get more WP as standard/mil get less.. OH and lets not forget Pro also Rep80%+ of the persons armor This has been delayed due to an unexpected tech barrier. This is the saddest thing I have read in a while. That's what I get for getting my hopes up... Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1008	Posted - 2014.08.12 19:48:00 - [90] - Quote Cal Logi lately (Well I usually swap out to a different suit because I'm more usefull that way after I deploy all my equipment) See that phrase between the parentheses? That shouldn't be necessary if one decides to spawn in with a support role. I recently made a quick post in this thread. Added the posts at the end of this post for your convenience (actually I don't feel like spending the energy to go to deep into this topic before we get a glimpse that CCP changes their attitude towards the support role: eg. The original idea of reducing speed of logis, just to make assault more viable & ignoring all feedback from the 1.8 changes) Besides that...I'm supposed to support the team...I need to run around the battlefield from ally to ally...I can't with the current pool of stamina and regen...(the suit is called LOGISTICS for fucks sake) unless I sacrifice all my low slots to some modules. RKKR wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: This is a good age for a logi. I'm not feeling the passive VS active Logi idea... In short: The passive logi will just become a much worse version of an assault/scout after all his equipment is used. The current mechanics don't even allow the passive logi to switch suits or he will lose his racial bonus. All this while the active logi will have benefits from their undestroyable/mobile/infinite usage equipment. Callogi will need even more CPU for it's sidearm, while it's not even 100% sure they wil adjust the crap CPU of the suit after all the warnings just out of fear of a slayer logi and shield tanking is still too CPU extensive en suckt compared to armor tanking. Seems that an assault with a rep tool might be more useful than my callogi. This game is getting more cookie cutter like with every update. RKKR wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: So besides the bonuses what needs to be fixed with logis? Because the next hotfix PG/CPU adjustments are due and a few other changes. Lets be ready. Just some unlikely idea: If we have to keep our bonuses...maybe they could change the way how equipment works. Make all equipment unlimited use but with some kind of cool-down period for it's next usage, more like the scanner and cloak. Limit maximum active equipment of deployable items per type and maybe let them be destroyed when switching to another suit that hasn't got the equipment currently deployed (fixes spamming aswell, win-win), this way the caldari/amarr logi can keep it's bonus playing the game without needing to restock at the supply depot and losing their bonus. Scanners are squad only, maybe allow it to be visual for a few seconds for the whole team aswell? In short: CCP drop the passive support role thing, it's not even a thing and drives the 'experience and effectives' to the lowest point it can get.



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