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Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1072	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:46:00 - [421] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Notice I said "CPMs that still play the game" I would like to propose that CPMs that have logged less than 5 hours in the past 3 months get their tags removed or at least have their vote taken away until they are back up to speed and know the current situation of the game. Side note I know. CPM does much more in the vein of gathering feedback than anything, while yes we do discuss things internally it is not really as if CCP puts ideas in front of the CPM and we vote them up or down, that's simply not how the process works. We are more of a conduit than a legislative body or something of that ilk. Just clarifying that, now back to reading through the thread again Cheers, Cross I just read: "We're free slave labor". But i don't blame you for CCP being obtuse about logistics. After hearing your personal opinions,i believe you are doing your best within the restraints you are given. And for that i say thanks Cross. o7 Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3961	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:54:00 - [422] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Man, you guys got all bent up about spam and spam solutions when I stated and have restated that the raising of SP cost to enter Logistics would have a peripheral, ie. in addition to, benefit in limiting spam. Go back and read the first couple of pages of this thread and the countless other thread posted about buffing Logi stats. Pay close attention to the critisisms, to the posters talking about useless logis, spamming logis, WP whoring logis and how we don't desrve to be on equal footing in the battlefield because of those poor examples of logis behave. This idea is to address THAT. John Demonsbane wrote: I gotta go with Adam of Eve here. Not that el operators sentiment is wrong, but I really don't think the proposal will have the desired effect. Like i said earlier, I think what you will end up doing is adding a barrier to new players who night want to play logistics without discouraging spammers. The key question is this: What about unlocking logi suits at level 5 prevents someone from simply skilling to level 3 in uplinks. making two scout fits with different combinations of links, and then simply dropping 5-6 uplinks before swapping out to their go-to brick tanked slayer scout fit? (The correct answer is nothing) LOL DUDE. Your "counter-argument" PROVES MY CONCEPT. The spammer, who wants to spam NOT spend, instead of grabbing an easily accessible logi frame of his choice, instead grabs a scout suit. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, LOGI SPAM DETERRED!! See wha' jus' hoppent thar'??!!?!? The spammer now spams 2/3 the equip he would have, the spammed equipment is 0 bonused since it came off a scout and not a logi, and ultimately he likely receives fewer WP for his spamming effort since his equip spammed is lower quality and quantity than if he'd done it from a logi frame. And maybe, just maybe when spammer finds his spam rewards reduced he'll figure some sort of more worthwhile method of getting WP (like maybe hacking something?) and transition away from cheap spam tactics and into more relevant in-battle behaviour. And again, over and over, limiting equipment spamming is only ONE possible, partial benefit. Will newbros look at it and shake their heads? Sure. But if they're serious about coming logi then it won't really matter. The SERIOUS will still join. And the posers will find other pastures. I don't see how that's true at all. Meee one, for all his/her rageposting, has a point. Nobody sees who drops all the uplinks. To be honest, I drop a prety good percentage of my uplinks from scout suits. In the minds of the logi-haters, equipment comes from logis. All spam is logi spam. Nothing is going to change that mindset, certainly not "making" people drop uplinks from non-logi suits, which a lot of people do anyway! Whatever moral victory you might be trying to claim won't have much practical value. Certainly not enough to justify putting the logi suits out of the reach of newer players. You're also making a lot of assumptions about player behavior. For one, pub spammers don't give a rats ass about how good their uplink is, they just want to farm. Exhibit A, the morons who drop std uplinks literally right on top of my Amarr-powered flux uplinks every time theres a triple SP week. It's like clockwork. You think they care if the uplink they just dropped has a bonus apllied to it? For them, the only advantage to higher teir uplinks is that you can use moar. And if you think that only having 2 equipment slots is going to make them suddenly feel like placing uplinks just isn't worth it, I'm going to actually push the objective and fight from the very second the match starts, then I don't know what to tell you other than you have a LOT more faith in the average blueberry than I do. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 294	Posted - 2014.09.03 22:05:00 - [423] - Quote Meee One wrote: Oh you and your misguided concepts. It wasn't the noobs that abused logistics,it was the vets. You know the ones that had lv 5 core skills like armor and shielding. The same ones that immediately skilled lv5 into scouts the day they came out. Increasing costs will ensure no new logistics,ever. But the FOTM vets won't have been effected. You're idea is as bad as removing class reps because lollogistics is surviving too long. And about "self-control" i have to restrain myself every day so i don't stack plates to be equal to basics. I would love to use biotics,but with my slower speed + low eHP plus needing to be 20m from the frontlines... Minassaults outrunning me with 2x my eHP... You see? Logistics is the one class that has no options but to use all their slots to stack eHP,because of all their flaws. Logistics can't run,hide,tank,rep tank... And yet rattatai is "intent on ending brick tanking". If logistics isn't buffed beforehand the entire class is screwed. But who cares amirite? Support shouldn't survive a single smg bullet let alone a CR burst. I'm hesitant to address this directly, you're not realizing it but your tone is getting worse and worse. Might be time to just turn the forums off for a couple days, I did and feel much better..... ANYWAYS- Vets will do whatever they can afford to do. They're vets. They reap the benefit of early game entry vs. you or I the same way you or I reap the benefit of our skilling when we fight against true newbs in pubs. My cores are maxed. All of them. My STARTER fits are significantly more potent than a 2nd hour newbs are. This is working as intended. -A limit to entry on the frame isn't going to dissuade vets, likely true. -A limit to entry on the frame is going to make a newb stop and consider whether logistics is what he actually wants to do, also likely true. -A limit to entry on the frame is going to make a newb who doesn't want to logi but wants to farm WP to get SP to then get a different fit altogether not go logi, is also likely true. -A limit to entry then limits the number of actual logis available making logis more valuable to teams in general, is also likely true. -A limit to entry keeps the logi from being the spammable abuse ***** it can be now, also very likely to be true. Considered objectively in its full context this idea is long overdue. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 294	Posted - 2014.09.03 22:28:00 - [424] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Man, you guys got all bent up about spam and spam solutions when I stated and have restated that the raising of SP cost to enter Logistics would have a peripheral, ie. in addition to, benefit in limiting spam. Go back and read the first couple of pages of this thread and the countless other thread posted about buffing Logi stats. Pay close attention to the critisisms, to the posters talking about useless logis, spamming logis, WP whoring logis and how we don't desrve to be on equal footing in the battlefield because of those poor examples of logis behave. This idea is to address THAT. John Demonsbane wrote: I gotta go with Adam of Eve here. Not that el operators sentiment is wrong, but I really don't think the proposal will have the desired effect. Like i said earlier, I think what you will end up doing is adding a barrier to new players who night want to play logistics without discouraging spammers. The key question is this: What about unlocking logi suits at level 5 prevents someone from simply skilling to level 3 in uplinks. making two scout fits with different combinations of links, and then simply dropping 5-6 uplinks before swapping out to their go-to brick tanked slayer scout fit? (The correct answer is nothing) LOL DUDE. Your "counter-argument" PROVES MY CONCEPT. The spammer, who wants to spam NOT spend, instead of grabbing an easily accessible logi frame of his choice, instead grabs a scout suit. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, LOGI SPAM DETERRED!! See wha' jus' hoppent thar'??!!?!? The spammer now spams 2/3 the equip he would have, the spammed equipment is 0 bonused since it came off a scout and not a logi, and ultimately he likely receives fewer WP for his spamming effort since his equip spammed is lower quality and quantity than if he'd done it from a logi frame. And maybe, just maybe when spammer finds his spam rewards reduced he'll figure some sort of more worthwhile method of getting WP (like maybe hacking something?) and transition away from cheap spam tactics and into more relevant in-battle behaviour. And again, over and over, limiting equipment spamming is only ONE possible, partial benefit. Will newbros look at it and shake their heads? Sure. But if they're serious about coming logi then it won't really matter. The SERIOUS will still join. And the posers will find other pastures. I don't see how that's true at all. Your "concept" won't have the impact you think it will. Meee one, for all his/her rageposting, has a point. Nobody sees (or cares) who drops all the uplinks. In the minds of the logi-haters, equipment comes from logis. All spam is logi spam. Nothing is going to change that mindset, certainly not "making" people drop uplinks from non-logi suits, which a lot of people do anyway! To be honest, I drop a prety good percentage of my uplinks from scout suits. Whatever moral victory you might be trying to claim won't have much practical value. Certainly not enough to justify putting the logi suits out of the reach of newer players. You're also making a lot of assumptions about player behavior. For one, pub spammers don't give a rats ass about how good their uplink is, they just want to farm. Exhibit A, the morons who drop std uplinks literally right on top of my Amarr-powered flux uplinks every time theres a triple SP week. It's like clockwork. You think they care if the uplink they just dropped has a bonus apllied to it? For them, the only advantage to higher teir uplinks is that you can use moar. And if you think that only having 2 equipment slots is going to make them suddenly feel like placing uplinks just isn't worth it, I'm going to actually push the objective and fight from the very second the match starts, then I don't know what to tell you other than you have a LOT more faith in the average blueberry than I do. Every suit that has equipment slots is eligible to drop links, hives, use needles, scanners, REs, PEs and whatever fancy box CCP releases next. Being able to drop from 2 slots versus 3 or 4 tho DOES make a difference. You nailed it, pub spammers don't give a rats ass. All the more reason then that WE SHOULD. Logi suits won't be "out of reach", noobs will just have to be willing to reach higher. And quite frankly if, as a noob, they don't have the tolerance for a couple extra hundred thousand SP to get in then they're really not ready for the role and the associated costs, forget SP for equip, what about SP for the cores? For CPU and PG which any REAL logi has MAXED? etc etc etc If they want it, its there. If they don't, they'll know. And rest of us can quit living with the backlash having a bunch of suit tourists creates. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3048	Posted - 2014.09.03 22:30:00 - [425] - Quote Meee One wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Meee One wrote: Stats can be changed via hotfix,so can bonuses. Remember charlie? Assaults got eHP,slots,and a new bonus to grenade fitting. "Necessity" when it's used as he has in that sentence means "we know the problems we just don't care,we like assaults more". So yes,in a single hotfix, CCP can easily buff logistics. At this point they are simply refusing to. Incremental changes. Don't cry because you're not first in line. Lol 'first in line'. Logistics was straight up ignored or even nerfed the last few "updates". EVERY suit BUT logistics has gotten buffed. It IS logistics turn. Stop trying to act mature and actually be mature for a change. Probably because the other suits were in more desperate need of an update than the Logistics were. Do you mean to tell me that the Assault, a suit that was basically never seen until this last update, was in less need of a change than the Logistics? Also, every suit? When was the last time the Commando was buffed? Please set your overly biased opinions aside so we can be constructive here, and less "OMG WHY WONT YOU GIVE ME WHAT I WANT FIRST OVER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WANT?!" I guess your name really hit yours attitude perfectly "MEEE!!! MEEE!!!!!! WHAT ABOUT MEEEE?!" Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 651	Posted - 2014.09.03 23:46:00 - [426] - Quote Thanks for all of your feedback, guys.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 295	Posted - 2014.09.04 00:01:00 - [427] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Thanks for all of your feedback, guys. lol, we're just getting warmed up in here. We still need to : Theorycraft some new base movement stats. Debate their merits. Debate their drawbacks. Theorycraft new stats based on the previous theorycrafted set. Debate the merits of those. Debate the drawbacks of those. Debate the merits between both sets. Be interrupted by some outlandish suggestion like, "Squads of 6 is OP, reduce to squad of 4" Debate the outlandish theory. Theorycraft a different solution to the outlandish theory. Debate the new theorycrafted solution versus the original idea. lather, rinse, repeat By the time this thread is "done" it'll be its own planet in Molden Heath and have districts. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2801	Posted - 2014.09.04 01:58:00 - [428] - Quote Meee One wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Name me a suit outside logistics that has not been altered since Rattati came along. Only one I can think of is commandos, and I don't count the color change. It's funny how pokey said "incremental changes". He must have forgotten the 150 eHP,extra slots,and grenade bonus assaults just got. None of that is "incremental",when combined it's actually quite extreme. Yet logistics must wait for these "incremental changes"? Lol. Truth is exposed,logistics isn't respected enough to receive the same kind of attention. Incremental changes are a game wide assessment, not a per frame assessment, the CPM is very aware of the need to give support play some attention and has been vocal on the subject. Consider the recent hotfix thread and the narrative regarding injectors, that is only one aspect in the process of course, but proper balance is iterative not sweeping (generally speaking). So, yes, as it has happened the logi pass, as well as the support pass (which overlaps but isn't entirely identical) are still upcoming rather than already done but that does not indicate a lack of attention and at present I have no reason to believe that such changes would not be forthcoming. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2801	Posted - 2014.09.04 01:59:00 - [429] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Thanks for all of your feedback, guys. lol, we're just getting warmed up in here. We still need to : Theorycraft some new base movement stats. Debate their merits. Debate their drawbacks. Theorycraft new stats based on the previous theorycrafted set. Debate the merits of those. Debate the drawbacks of those. Debate the merits between both sets. Be interrupted by some outlandish suggestion like, "Squads of 6 is OP, reduce to squad of 4" Debate the outlandish theory. Theorycraft a different solution to the outlandish theory. Debate the new theorycrafted solution versus the original idea. lather, rinse, repeat By the time this thread is "done" it'll be its own planet in Molden Heath and have districts. I look forward to it, especially the creation and population of Logi Prime once we reach critical mass See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13189	Posted - 2014.09.04 02:01:00 - [430] - Quote Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2801	Posted - 2014.09.04 03:41:00 - [431] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. Please elaborate in detail on points one and two because at present they seem to be in contradiction to each other. Looking forward to your reply Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 390	Posted - 2014.09.04 03:58:00 - [432] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. Please elaborate in detail on points one and two because at present they seem to be in contradiction to each other. Looking forward to your reply Cheers, Cross Amarrians are such contraries... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2801	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:17:00 - [433] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of support play within Dust, and how to improve the experience and effectiveness. When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied. Cheers, Cross CCP Rattati wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I take it all logistics will be looked at separately eventually (When is that by the way? Wasn't it slated for delta alongside commandos?) Aside from that it looks pretty okay. CCP Rattati wrote: Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity, Scouts, Commandos, Logistics From this i take it there is no necessity to look at the logi/support role in Dust. As 'necessity' deems it ok, that is despite the number of issues raised here in this thread and in others over the last year. Is it that none of these issues can be resolved via hotfixes ? This is more a case of the iterative or incremental approach to balance. CCP Rattati in all my conversations with him has been very dedicated to the idea of doing more effective, measured, balancing rather than the sweeping changes which have happened during much of Dusts history. I can see how in this context the phrasing may be confusing but don't read too much into it, conversations regarding the state of support generally and more specifically equipment and the logistics frame, are ongoing. Indeed this thread is part of that initiative that SMB and I specifically, and the CPM generally, are involved in currently. So please, continue to use this thread and provide feedback. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 225	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:38:00 - [434] - Quote Thanks for the response and clarification Cross. It seemed weird the way it come across especially in light of this thread and I know sometimes Rattati comes across short and to the point Anyway i've been trying these brick tank logis that everyone says they see and I can honestly say that I ******* hate them. How any body manages to play logi waddling around like a crap heavy with EQ slots is beyond me, i have been getting my arse handed to me ( more than normal ) back to kincats for me before i loose the will to logi. Quick one while i'm here, over the last week I've noticed an annoying trend. Mainly the mass spam of uplinks in just about every conceivable location, by that i mean worse than normal. I was wondering whether this was linked to the increase in WP requirement for OB's and organised squads trying to milk every last WP to get an OB? Unintended side effect or my bad luck in running into uplink spamming squads. Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:00:00 - [435] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Meee One wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Meee One wrote: Stats can be changed via hotfix,so can bonuses. Remember charlie? Assaults got eHP,slots,and a new bonus to grenade fitting. "Necessity" when it's used as he has in that sentence means "we know the problems we just don't care,we like assaults more". So yes,in a single hotfix, CCP can easily buff logistics. At this point they are simply refusing to. Incremental changes. Don't cry because you're not first in line. Lol 'first in line'. Logistics was straight up ignored or even nerfed the last few "updates". EVERY suit BUT logistics has gotten buffed. It IS logistics turn. Stop trying to act mature and actually be mature for a change. Probably because the other suits were in more desperate need of an update than the Logistics were. Do you mean to tell me that the Assault, a suit that was basically never seen until this last update, was in less need of a change than the Logistics? Also, every suit? When was the last time the Commando was buffed? Please set your overly biased opinions aside so we can be constructive here, and less "OMG WHY WONT YOU GIVE ME WHAT I WANT FIRST OVER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WANT?!" I guess your name really hit yours attitude perfectly "MEEE!!! MEEE!!!!!! WHAT ABOUT MEEEE?!" Another insult? Nothing constructive left? Yes,my handle is meee one. I am so glad you can read. (-ía¦Å¦»-ía¦Å) Assaults have had their turn,and now that it's logistics turn,you're all up in arms? And as for lolmandos...they aren't even to be slated in Dust on PC. But on PS3 Dust they do need a buff. But heres the funny thing...i don't use lolmandos so i would have no right suggesting for them. I use logistics, which is why i know what's needed for logistics. Only an idiot would suggest changes to a suit they don't use. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:25:00 - [436] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. -Agreed -Can't be done unless logistics has a base stat to a high enough degree to compensate for that lost eHP (speed and stamina,for example) -Agreed sort of...you have to take into consideration the players that skilled a certain suit because of the bonus. Seeing as i skilled into Min for the rep bonus...coming from Gal,learning shields suck. Then seeing the suit i left for this weaker one get the bonus i skilled out of it for? Yes, i would be incredibly upset. I would be stuck with a slower scout,when Gal has better survivability. Lesser bonuses would be better. Any buffs to logistics would make them better,specific buffs would make them specialists. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:45:00 - [437] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. Please elaborate in detail on points one and two because at present they seem to be in contradiction to each other. Looking forward to your reply Cheers, Cross I'm afraid he can't do that. In previous threads he's tried to have logistics stripped of grenades and stuck with sidearms. Even championing slot reduction with 0 buffs. He has no valid reason(s). It's as i have said before,the concept of support is new and scary in the FPS genre. So his instinctive response is to kill it,or have it be easily killed. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1074	Posted - 2014.09.04 07:11:00 - [438] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Meee One wrote: Oh you and your misguided concepts. It wasn't the noobs that abused logistics,it was the vets. You know the ones that had lv 5 core skills like armor and shielding. The same ones that immediately skilled lv5 into scouts the day they came out. Increasing costs will ensure no new logistics,ever. But the FOTM vets won't have been effected. You're idea is as bad as removing class reps because lollogistics is surviving too long. And about "self-control" i have to restrain myself every day so i don't stack plates to be equal to basics. I would love to use biotics,but with my slower speed + low eHP plus needing to be 20m from the frontlines... Minassaults outrunning me with 2x my eHP... You see? Logistics is the one class that has no options but to use all their slots to stack eHP,because of all their flaws. Logistics can't run,hide,tank,rep tank... And yet rattatai is "intent on ending brick tanking". If logistics isn't buffed beforehand the entire class is screwed. But who cares amirite? Support shouldn't survive a single smg bullet let alone a CR burst. I'm hesitant to address this directly, you're not realizing it but your tone is getting worse and worse. Might be time to just turn the forums off for a couple days, I did and feel much better..... ANYWAYS- Vets will do whatever they can afford to do. They're vets. They reap the benefit of early game entry vs. you or I the same way you or I reap the benefit of our skilling when we fight against true newbs in pubs. My cores are maxed. All of them. My STARTER fits are significantly more potent than a 2nd hour newbs are. This is working as intended. -A limit to entry on the frame isn't going to dissuade vets, likely true. -A limit to entry on the frame is going to make a newb stop and consider whether logistics is what he actually wants to do, also likely true. -A limit to entry on the frame is going to make a newb who doesn't want to logi but wants to farm WP to get SP to then get a different fit altogether not go logi, is also likely true. -A limit to entry then limits the number of actual logis available making logis more valuable to teams in general, is also likely true. -A limit to entry keeps the logi from being the spammable abuse ***** it can be now, also very likely to be true. Considered objectively in its full context this idea is long overdue. Yeah....i think i'll take a break from posting. Also,don't be a coward. If i'm being unreasonable or asinine call me on it. I would however like a (legit) reason to go along with that calling.(As you have done here.) I guess i'm just getting drained trying to explain to logi-haters how valuable support is. That a single skilled logistics can turn a battle around,if they could live long enough to make it to the combat zone... But all i get is boatloads of sarcasm. ANYWAYS-Limits in a game like Dust is bad. Don't forget the endgame,connecting to EVE online for galaxy wide domination. By creating barriers in what players can do now,you create invisible walls you can't cross later. As much as a logi with a sniper rifle may annoy me,i understand that later on it may have a natural counter...like mortar barrages. There are certain things that do require limits for the players own good,but suit access isn't one of them. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3052	Posted - 2014.09.04 07:20:00 - [439] - Quote Meee One wrote: EVERY suit BUT logistics has gotten buffed. Meee One wrote: And as for lolmandos...they aren't even to be slated in Dust on PC. But on PS3 Dust they do need a buff. But heres the funny thing...i don't use lolmandos so i would have no right suggesting for them. I use logistics, which is why i know what's needed for logistics. Only an idiot would suggest changes to a suit they don't use. So.... "Every suit except the Logistics......oh and the Commandos but I don't know anything about those so I cant comment so I'll just pretend they're not there and spout on about how CCP has some deep hatred and are singling out Logis only even though other suits have yet to get a balance pass as well." ? That about right? Cross Atu wrote: Incremental changes are a game wide assessment, not a per frame assessment, the CPM is very aware of the need to give support play some attention and has been vocal on the subject. Consider the recent hotfix thread and the narrative regarding injectors, that is only one aspect in the process of course, but proper balance is iterative not sweeping (generally speaking). So, yes, as it has happened the logi pass, as well as the support pass (which overlaps but isn't entirely identical) are still upcoming rather than already done but that does not indicate a lack of attention and at present I have no reason to believe that such changes would not be forthcoming. Cheers, Cross Thank you Cross for confirming what we already know, but some refuse to believe. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3964	Posted - 2014.09.04 07:31:00 - [440] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Thanks for the response and clarification Cross. It seemed weird the way it come across especially in light of this thread and I know sometimes Rattati comes across short and to the point Anyway i've been trying these brick tank logis that everyone says they see and I can honestly say that I ******* hate them. How any body manages to play logi waddling around like a crap heavy with EQ slots is beyond me, i have been getting my arse handed to me ( more than normal ) back to kincats for me before i loose the will to logi. Quick one while i'm here, over the last week I've noticed an annoying trend. Mainly the mass spam of uplinks in just about every conceivable location, by that i mean worse than normal. I was wondering whether this was linked to the increase in WP requirement for OB's and organised squads trying to milk every last WP to get an OB? Unintended side effect or my bad luck in running into uplink spamming squads. Triple SP event. Uplink spam gets ludicrous. You can set your watch to it. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 390	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:19:00 - [441] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Thanks for the response and clarification Cross. It seemed weird the way it come across especially in light of this thread and I know sometimes Rattati comes across short and to the point Anyway i've been trying these brick tank logis that everyone says they see and I can honestly say that I ******* hate them. How any body manages to play logi waddling around like a crap heavy with EQ slots is beyond me, i have been getting my arse handed to me ( more than normal ) back to kincats for me before i loose the will to logi. Quick one while i'm here, over the last week I've noticed an annoying trend. Mainly the mass spam of uplinks in just about every conceivable location, by that i mean worse than normal. I was wondering whether this was linked to the increase in WP requirement for OB's and organised squads trying to milk every last WP to get an OB? Unintended side effect or my bad luck in running into uplink spamming squads. Triple SP event. Uplink spam gets ludicrous. You can set your watch to it. Pretty sure that confirms the rewards from Uplink are (slightly) too rich - considering they are a drop and forget equipment. Suggest slightly reducing their rewards from 25 to 20 per spawn to balance out. (Higher tier equipment still benefits for of faster spawn times.) Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3968	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:32:00 - [442] - Quote How does it confirm anything?... people farm vehicle damage points too. Should we take that away? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 390	Posted - 2014.09.04 14:40:00 - [443] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: How does it confirm anything?... people farm vehicle damage points too. Should we take that away? Action + result + repeatability = confirmation People farming vehicle damage is a different issue... And I never suggested taking anything away, just to balance the rewards from related actions. (Amarrs is so tricksy.) Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3053	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:21:00 - [444] - Quote We'd have to see if reduction to the WP rewards on Uplinks is even possible. I have my doubts since we found out recently that the rewards for Injectors could not be changed. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 226	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:25:00 - [445] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: We'd have to see if reduction to the WP rewards on Uplinks is even possible. I have my doubts since we found out recently that the rewards for Injectors could not be changed. Wasnt that scaled WP's ? Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2530	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:28:00 - [446] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: True Adamance wrote: Logistic Suits - DO NOT need more EHP - Logisitics Suits need to be incentivised to use utility modules and not EHP stack - Logistics Role Bonuses should emphasis the role and be unilateral, especially in the case of the Rep tool bonuses, as no one race in EVE dominates remote reps. Please elaborate in detail on points one and two because at present they seem to be in contradiction to each other. Looking forward to your reply Cheers, Cross Let me take a stab at this. Point 1: Logis can tank stack. They have the option to roll a heavy EHP buffer at the cost of equipment utility. Adding EHP runs back into this issue. If they use tanking modules they can be hard to kill (I see a lot of logistics suit snipers for this reason). Point 2: There's little/no reason for a logistics to rock KinCats, precision mods, cardiac regulators, etc. Because they do not provide a lot of utility (just some) there is little to no reason for a logi to choose them over a armor plate, rep or shield mod. Further, only the Gallente Logi can be specced to detect scouts. Since EWAR/Detection/Dampening is a simple binary Yes/No with no margin for error (you either never see them, or always see them) there is no reason to try to use a logistics as a detection platform. Point 3: I think he's full of it here. There's a lot of room for logi specialization here without homogenization. If we were to apply a logi role bonus to each race Gallente could get +repair cycle speed, Minmatar get + amount, caldari get +range and amarr get... shot. Ok not the last but you get the idea. Honestly I'm of the opinion that Logis are TOO pigeonholed largely. They need to have advantages and disadvantages along similar veins that are universal. Gallente: 5% reduction to equipment cycle time per level Caldari: +5% to equipment effect range per level (hive radius, rep tool range, etc.) Minmatar: +5% to amount of equipment benefit (ammo per hive cycle, armor repped, etc.) Amarr: +1 equipment carried per level (not necessarily deployable at the same time)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2530	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:30:00 - [447] - Quote I'd like to see certain pieces of equipment given better utility to make them as useful as hives and droplinks. The recent change to needles idea is one I can get behind. makes needles a lot more useful. But the droplink/armor hive meta needs to be broken.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3053	Posted - 2014.09.04 16:19:00 - [448] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: We'd have to see if reduction to the WP rewards on Uplinks is even possible. I have my doubts since we found out recently that the rewards for Injectors could not be changed. Wasnt that scaled WP's ? Possibly, I'm just saying stuff like that may be more difficult to do than it seems. Not saying Im against the idea. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 226	Posted - 2014.09.04 16:55:00 - [449] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: We'd have to see if reduction to the WP rewards on Uplinks is even possible. I have my doubts since we found out recently that the rewards for Injectors could not be changed. Wasnt that scaled WP's ? Possibly, I'm just saying stuff like that may be more difficult to do than it seems. Not saying Im against the idea. I agree with you in regards of it may be difficult but that obviously depends on what they do. That is the tricky part. Going to mull over a few ideas and maybe post them on here if i am happy with it. Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 390	Posted - 2014.09.04 16:57:00 - [450] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: We'd have to see if reduction to the WP rewards on Uplinks is even possible. I have my doubts since we found out recently that the rewards for Injectors could not be changed. Boo. Hiss. *throws popcorn Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.



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