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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
302
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Posted - 2014.10.03 22:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Basically, instead of getting a smaller version of both parts of the GÇ£originalGÇ¥ EQ bonus, you get a bigger version of half of it. That way you keep some diversity. Here is what you would get, using ~75-100% of the original bonus.
In this example, to keep even more racial flavor, I will give 100% to allies, 75% to enemies. Amarr/Caldari get maximum benefit to deployables, Minmatar/Gallente to active equipment. Certainly you donGÇÖt have to make that distinction and could simply pick either 75 or 100% and use it for all 3 secondary bonuses regardless of race.
Amarr: Primary bonus: 10% to uplink spawn time, +2 to max spawns per level
Secondary bonuses: -3% bonus to repair tool rate per level -3% bonus to active scanner precision per level -5% of nanohive supply/repair rate per level
Cakdari: Primary bonus: 10% max nanites and 5% to supply/repair rate per level
Secondary bonuses (Goal: Engage at range): -7.5% bonus to repair tool range per level -7.5% bonus to scanner visibility duration per level -+2 to max uplink spawn count per level (on the fence about this one)
Minmatar: Primary bonus: 10% bonus to repair tool range and 5% to repair rate per level
Secondary bonuses (goal: Get the most use out of each piece of equipment. Also: duct tape; not having to work on the landscaping of my estate for the next 8 generations): -10% bonus to scanner visibility duration per level -+1 to max uplink spawn count per level -7.5% bonus to max nanites per level
Gallente: Primary bonus: 10% to active scanner visibility duration and 5% to precision per level
Secondary bonuses (goal: Minimize casualties. Also: Minimize getting syphilis) -5% bonus to repair tool rate per level -3% bonus to nanohive supply/repair rate per level -7.5% bonus to uplink spawn time per level (on the fence about this one too)
I think I'm going to say this might be my preferred solution, actually. What is listed as method 2 on the spreadsheet is my second choice.
I don't really like the randomization here, why are some getting spawn counts, and some get the spawn timer... makes no sense to me.
For all bonuses, I would say, give all logis 2% to opponents races stuff, 4% to allies stuff and 5% to your own stuff (if 5% is the max, the native race gets).
Amarr: Primary bonus: 10% to uplink spawn time, +2 to max spawns per level:
Secondary bonuses: -2% bonus to repair tool rate per level and 4% bonus to repair tool range per level -2% bonus to active scanner precision per level -8% max nanites and 4% of nanohive supply/repair rate per level
Caldari: Primary bonus: 10% max nanites and 5% to supply/repair rate per level
Secondary bonuses: -2% bonus to repair tool rate per level and 4% bonus to repair tool range per level -2% to precision per level and 4% bonus to scanner visibility duration per level -8% bonus to uplink spawn time per level and +2 to max uplink spawn count per level
Minmatar: Primary bonus: 10% bonus to repair tool range and 5% to repair rate per level
Secondary bonuses: -8% bonus to scanner visibility duration per level and 4% to precision per level -4% bonus to uplink spawn time per level and +1 to max uplink spawn count per level -4% bonus to max nanites per level and 2% bonus to nanohive supply/repair rate per level
Gallente: Primary bonus: 10% to active scanner visibility duration and 5% to precision per level
Secondary bonuses: -8% bonus to repair tool range and 4% bonus to repair tool rate per level -4% max nanites per level and 2% bonus to nanohive supply/repair rate per level -4% bonus to uplink spawn time per level and +1 to max uplink spawn count per level
Considering the introduction of shield transporters (shield repper) I wouldn't like the minmatar to be pushed in the shield direction repping wise, since they are dual tankers... this will be difficult to balance... but I guess that it makes sense considering the EVE lore...
Another thing I've proposed before, if every logi has a wish for putting a repper/transporter on, why not put a repper/transporter slot where the sidearm of all the other frames is...
Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing...
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
369
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Posted - 2014.12.03 11:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well adaptation to changes is part of this game.
So I made some suits to compensate the EQ BW. Mostly I reduced the amount of Uplinks on my first spawn to 4 deployed. Than I can spawn a commando without loosing too much (if Apex, all good).
If I want to stay logi, I just spawn a tanked version of the first spawn, that has just a scanner (pro), a pathetic hive (compact) and a dirty needle. There you go, better survivability and still getting points from those links... Support though... well not so much.
Cheers
Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
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Mad Syringe
Dead Man's Game RUST415
453
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Posted - 2015.02.06 12:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Open Beta logi with maxed EQ here.
My view on the reptool: I don't like leaching a heavy/slayer 24/7. I think it's ok for intense engagements, but running behind a heavy just not to miss those 35+ Guardian points is just meh... (i think that should be lowered to +25 like kill assists)
I would like to see a overheat on the reptool with the following changes.
The reptool overheats if latched on for extended periods. Overheating increases cooldown.
Standard cooldown 3 sec. Overheat cooldown 10 sec.
Having a seized reptool in hand prevents switching to a weapon, like with overheated weapons.
Time to overheat on a core focused may be around a minute, so that you can have a longer engagement but not perma leash.
The reptool will give higher output (+25%) when heated up (after two thirds of it's heating cycle)
The reptool will overheat slower in lower tiers, since you need quite some time to rep anything with the basic ones.
High tier reptools would have a much shorter cooldown. They overheat faster, but they also recover pretty much instantly (3 sec at proto).
Wp should not be attached to the repping cycle, but the amount of reps given.
To make life for Logis easier, make a quickdraw EQ slot, which can be chosen with the weapon swap button. This would make it much easier for logis to switch from weapon to reptool and vice versa.
Give the Amarr the possibility to put EQ in his sidearm slot.
Give the Caldari either a combined sidearm/EQ slot or one more EQ slot.
Apart from that, I'd like to see more speed for the logis, since they need to run around much more than point defenders to either drop EQ in different locations or run to the depot to resupply. Logis need to be at least as fast as Assaults, to be able to move with a slayer squad.
What has been said about a general EQ buff for logis, I agree upon. EQ should only shine on logis, not on the other suits.
I would also like to see racial reptool variants, like tools with resistances, shield tools and combined shield/armour tools.
Make a special Stealth Uplink useful to Scouts, that has insane fast spawn times (2sec), but only 5 spawns on it and a very low scan profile (not detectable by a Gallogi). It would be 3 carried but only one active at a time. It would be nice if this link was given a fitting bonus on scouts like the cloak has. This would help in reducing the Scout QQ which I'm tired of. |
Mad Syringe
Dead Man's Game RUST415
454
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 09:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meee One wrote: As long as repair tools have a nearly 400% loss vs weapons,i'll fight cooldowns tooth and nail.
However,a warm up mechanism would be interesting.
The more you repair,the better you repair. If you stop you slowly cooldown to a low repair rate.(the starting rate)
The reptool is not supposed to give your heavy invincibility, but it should give the heavy time to kill two incoming heavies of the same tier.
So considering the blue heavy and the two incoming red heavies are of same tier and skill, the engagement should be pretty even, with one side winning with a sliver of health left. If you are on the winnning side, you can rep your guy up instantly to full health, while the other side, would need to find a logi or retreat until self repping does the job.
The logi's job is not to make the heavy invincible but more durable.
My proposal is intended to make the logi job a little bit more active and less boring.
I personally have no problems to run with a heavy, but just leaching him with no action involved is just plain boring. I'd prefer if the overheat mechaninc would give me more to think about. It would also involve skill to time the overheat right, and not to seize your reptool. Much more fun in my opinion. As compensation, the reptool might be buffed a little (in cool state).
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
454
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Posted - 2015.02.23 11:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meee One wrote: Your post reads like a QQ post from GD.
Logistics takes "no skill","it's boring",etc.
And i'm not falling for it.
I've found your problem (see underlined).
You either: -are limiting your attention to repairing purposely -are running frequently with a camping squad -have never run a front-line logistics,because repping on the front-line is much more exciting than on the back-line where no opponents are -are a bad logistics for keeping your repair tool on a fully healed ally while others need reps too
The problem isn't with the grossly underpowered repair tools,it's with your playstyle. Try running solo in ambush and Dom,but avoid skirm like a plague.
I'll agree to an overheat right after all weapons get one,because the repair tools are the only things that logistics has that isn't nerfed to smithereens. And a "lolskillful" overheat would destroy them.
You obviously have no Idea how I play the game.
I do not run with heavies, because it's pretty boring in general. If I latch to heavies or other slayers, It's mostly to get a lot of skillpoints while having a booster active, to cap faster or reach a skill target.
I think there should be a mechanic that discourages constant latching on to a slayer, therefore I propose the overheat mechanic.
The overheat wouldn't hurt anybody who is constantly switching targets on the frontline, so what's your problem?
The overheat would just discourage the behaviour you are describing, get it?
The changes I propose, would make the reptool even more powerful in the hands of a non lazy logi!
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
454
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Posted - 2015.02.23 12:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, I proposed a relatively long period of constant repping (1min) that should be enough to fight of several incoing mercs (more than 2-3). If you play the overheated tool right, you would have even better chances to fight two incoming heavies at once. When on cooldown, you could give firesupport with the logi (you carry a weapon do you). I had good success using a MD in those situations, since it has a good shock and awe effect on many mercs.
If you have two incoming MinSents with burst HMGs your Heavy is toast anyway, and you are better of to run your ass of and get to safety... |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
454
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 13:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mister Goo wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:Well, I proposed a relatively long period of constant repping (1min) that should be enough to fight of several incoing mercs (more than 2-3). If you play the overheated tool right, you would have even better chances to fight two incoming heavies at once. When on cooldown, you could give firesupport with the logi (you carry a weapon do you). I had good success using a MD in those situations, since it has a good shock and awe effect on many mercs.
If you have two incoming MinSents with burst HMGs your Heavy is toast anyway, and you are better of to run your ass of and get to safety... Should is the key word here, and when 1 minute is not long enough to stop a prolonged push your both dead. As soon as you overheat that small battle is over for your team, you loose the objective and have to retake it. And before you aak I have pro links down to spawn back in. Yes I have weapons and I use them when I have to. CR lvl 5 pro Assault lvl 5 pro Mass Driver lvl 5 pro Some points you have very little choice of running away, and when you are given the order by your commander to hold that point no matter what, YOU DON'T RUN AWAY.
Well I was not proposing to run away when the going gets tough, I have never been known to do that, quite the contrary. My point is the uselessness of the reptool in certain situations. I'd rather have it crancking out more reps for a limited time, than it being constantly 'meh"...
And do you really think that reptool is making a difference for your heavy when he has to counter two incoming burst HMGs that know what they're doing? I doubt it. I'd rather have the logi shoot the heavies too to soften them... and only switching to his tool just in time before my shields go down or for a push... |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
454
|
Posted - 2015.02.23 14:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mister Goo wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:
My point is the uselessness of the reptool in certain situations.
And do you really think that reptool is making a difference for your heavy when he has to counter two incoming burst HMGs that know what they're doing? I doubt it. I'd rather have the logi shoot the heavies too to soften them... and only switching to his tool just in time before my shields go down or for a push...
These I do agree with, and try to do myself. No the rep tool is not going to make a difference vs 2 Burst HMG's But still no reason to to implement an overheat mechanism.
Well, I like it, because it give more capabilities, I wouldn't mind it being a variant (maybe specialist) that give more output, at the expenso of overheat. Thus performance and skill would show which variant would be used most...
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
456
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Posted - 2015.02.24 13:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Meee One wrote:One Eyed King wrote:@Meee One.
Logis were overperforming as slayers, that is what got them into trouble, not that they were killing anyone at all.
All suits should have some viability with shooting other players. A balanced Logi should be able to rep, provide scans, and shoot mercs among other supporting actions. It becomes imbalanced when the degree to which they do any of the above results in over performance and abuse. That goes the same for any suit or vehicle. Well,if my ability to rep gets reduced via overheat. My shooting time increases because of overheat. I personally picked logistics so thay my shooting responsibilities would be minimal,and yet players want to reduce my supporting ability? Lolno Mad is saying he wants an overheat to add skill and he's bored. All he has to do is stop repping and shoot,but as rep tools are infinite he wouldn't have a valid excuse to give squad mates. So instead of being candid with his crew he comes here to try to have an excuse made for him. It's terribly childish,and i can see through it easily. He doesn't want to be a logistics,he wants to be an assault with more than 1 equipment slot.
Well people who know how I play, know, that I'm trying to support, but I'll usually roam around very much and try to keep my links up, or on some maps (especcially in doms) just go for the highground in a minmando to deny the enemy said high ground. This is actually not that much fun as well... but if you don't do it, the enemy will, and I would love CCP to make certain roofs either accessible via ladders, or just make EQ placement on some struktures impossible.
Running with a squad is frustrating at times, since you can not keep up with the assaults. I often arrive late, and people do not wait for reps or other help I can provide. I think running a logi just to perma rep a heavy is pathetic. giving the reptool a higher output, to survive short intense engagements seems intriguing instead of perma repping two sents in a cqc situation, just to farm points for OBs...
I want the reptool to be more dynamic in use, it would be more powerful in return, so what if a overheated RT could rep a heavy through incoming Burst HMG fire? wouldn't that be fun, you had to balance betwheen the risk of overheating and repping to late and not getting the highest output when necessary... I would like that very much!
Considering the slayer logis, the only real problem with that ever, was the cal logi, which had way to good bonuses. Right now, the survivability is pathetic, and that on a suit, that is the first target for any incoming reds, because they know if they don't kill the logi first, the heavy they just dropped might be rezzed with 100% health a second later. This is why logis need the same survivability as assaults, without a sidearm and without the offensive bonuses the assaults get.
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
483
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Posted - 2015.02.28 10:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Buff the survivability, and give logis the same amount of EQ slots for all tiers.
It's highly annoying, that you can't run the same assortment of EQ (with lovwer guality) than you can on a pro suit. That makes it very difficult to run a similar setup with a lower tier suit. You pretty much always miss something from your usual setup. All other suits have no changes in EQ slotcount over tiers. If we have less at base and/or advanced, why don't scout have only one slot at basic?
So full EQ slotcount from basic on.
Said it before, give us a quickdraw EQ slot (like the sidearm slot on other suits) to switch back and forth betwheen one EQ and the light weapon.
Buff the survivability of the logi. It's way too squishy now.
It needs to be able to move faster, to be able to keep up with the pack. |
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
491
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Posted - 2015.03.01 10:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maybe we should put the scout discussion somewhere else, but I think right now, the scouts are not recon, but infiltration units. For that I've proposed a special EQ for them: Stealth Uplinks, they'd have 5 spawns and would be undetectable by any scanner, and they'd have super fast spawn times. These would allow a full squad spawn in, that would obviously consist of one or two logis plus several slayers to take an objective.
Good E-war on logis makes sense because they are so squishy. They should be able to see the scout flanking in their back first, to give them any chance to evade or react.
For scout recon, I'd like to see SR visual scans (line of sight) being shared with squad or team... this would give snipers a role apart from being an annoying bunch of campers, maybe just a skill for scout suits... |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
511
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Posted - 2015.03.14 11:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
DJINN Jecture wrote: BTW 98.9% of the links you spawn in on are scout uplinks.
Maybe in PC, in Pubs I doubt it!
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
554
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Posted - 2015.03.20 12:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
The only thing bandwith changed was the onesidedness of the games.
If you have some dedicated linkers, you have a much better chance to win. If you just have kdr slayers who can't be asked to bring some links, you may end up running a lot... |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
556
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Posted - 2015.03.20 13:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
BW has decreased the amount of links in certain team builds. If you have a lot of heavys/slayers you have way less links, since the assaults usually bring hives. This cuts of the momentum as soon as the links are all gone. The reduced spawn count increases that problem, since the logis often can't respawn on their own links that just depleted. If they have somebody with a needle to pick them up fine, but that's only in the good squads, everybody else usually carries hives.
So before BW, the links that some of the heavys and assaults put out on their first spawn kept the momentum going that is now so easily interrupted. This only helps the team that has the upper hand anyway, increasing the chance for onesided matches. |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
594
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think the last changes to deployable equipment have increased the spam again. Since nobody needs to save hives anymore, they get dropped all the time. And to compensate for the decreased amount of spawns on the links, you have to drop even more, to make sure they don't get depleted. All in all, the last iteration of the EQ theme has made things worse. |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
594
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
I've written about the recent changes to links in another thread, my point is, to make sure you have enough spawns at all times, you have to compensate with more links out. For me that means, that I can't switch to a support suit (read no links but reps needle hives on it). Because the links deplete all the time. The amount of total spawns on advanced links actually got nerfed, since the amount of spawns on the active links is only half of what it was.
This won't affect guys like you Zaria, since you run in a squad and probably proto most of the time. Resulting in less deaths. So you profit much more from more links on your belt, than somebody who dies a lot more, deploys only advanced links, and can't spawn on his own links regularly, due to them being depleted. The fast depletion, means more people have to bring links to make sure links stay up at any given time. This also means, that teams that have not enough linkers will get pushed back to their redline much easier. Resulting in more onesided matches.
So right now, you have either more links than before Echo hotfix, or you have barely any.
In my opinion that is bad. |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
599
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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
In my opinion, we should have a more diverse slection of links.
Flux should be like now, fastest spawn times, and lowest spawn count per drop but plenty carried.
Then gauged, should be the most active at once with medium spawn time, and medium amount of spawns.
While the quantum, should be like the old version of these links. Longest spawn times is a good enough drawback and not more than two active at once.
The Tower situation, should be solved by better flux OB's. Increase the wp price for the minis, but make them much bigger radius, so that you consistently hit what you want to destroy. It would also help, if the crosshair for the OB's would stay in the center of the screen, and the map would move underneath. That would prevent misses due to the 3D nature of the map. |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
637
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Posted - 2015.03.26 11:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
@Zaria... I was referring to removing BW in favor of the increased equipment carried OR keeping BW and dropping the increased carry numbers of equipment. Concur that Rattati and some folks on the CPM are quite enamored with BW and it's unlikely to change.
If the increased carry rate is a logi bonus only that could work well. When it's open to all...it flies in the face of the BW "buff".
I don't like the BW too much, but I can cope...
What I really don't like however, is the Echo changes to links, the medium and basic links do not have enought spawns. Right now, these are only viable for close support logis, meaning you drop them when one of your squadmates needs a spawn close to the squad. They lost all strategic value however, so that you have to lay proto links, if you want a longer term backup link of the beaten paths. This is bad, because it favours the proto stompers once again...
So what we need, is more variety betwheen different link types.
Also, I think all hives should be only one active at any time. Since the hive animation, seems to be a bigger resource hog than any other EQ in the field. But, give the Caldari logi a +1 active for all hive variants. This would make the Cal logi the hive specialist, and if you want to support your core spamming friends, the go to suit for it.
Compact hives should be 1 carried max, otherwise the assault who use these the most, will be to self sufficient...
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
648
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Posted - 2015.03.26 21:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote: I'm of the stated view that Logi should be positioned between the Light frame and the Assault. Now what that means as to details I'm open about but I would actually support swapping speed with the Assaults. As has been shown repeatedly mobility effects the value of many support actions at such a profound level that the light frame line of suits can often be more viable as support even without skill buffs simply because of their enhanced mobility.
Besides that if the Assault is going to be the more tanked medium frame (which seems reasonable) then making logi both more fragile and less capable of GTFO when they're outmatched seems like a good way to keep the role crippled. If you can't fight and you can't run and you can't really hide what do you do besides die?
I see no reason why the Assault should be the medium frame with the better stats in everything aside from equipment slots, in fact in that context I see no way that the internal balance of medium frames can avoid being broken.
0.02 ISK Cross
Thank you very much, this would help a lot.
Also standardizing the EQ slots for all tiers. That's the way all other classes work.
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
650
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Posted - 2015.03.26 22:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Have another like for that!!! |
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
655
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Posted - 2015.03.27 11:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Please do not make the min logi a remote expert...
I would however like combined shield armor repper bonuses if a shield transporter is ever introduced. |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
656
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Posted - 2015.03.27 12:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
This would just lead to never ending remote spam....
-1 DON'T DO IT! |
Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
658
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Posted - 2015.03.27 15:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:This would just lead to never ending remote spam....
-1 DON'T DO IT! Then give the caldari its well deserved shield recharger tool then you can keep your reptool and the bonus the minlogi gets for it.
Something similar...
As it was proposed before:
Amarr get a reptool bonus Gallente get a reptool bonus (would be even cooler if they would get an additional bonus to the targets rep modules) Caldari get a shield transporter (repper) bonus Minmatar get a slightly lower bonus for reptool AND shield transporter...
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Mad Syringe
ReDust Inc.
665
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Posted - 2015.03.28 11:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:@Thread; Re: Slayer Logi/Logi OP threads - These threads are present even now, there are calls to nerf links, nerf scans, nerf reps, etc. I think that no matter what changes are made there will still be threads call for logi nerfs after the change just as there are now, and that the number of them will increase. I am to a place now where if the thread in question does not provide some clear and constructive reasoning behind it I'm disinclined to give it any credence and am proceeding with my suggestions to CCP in that vein. Support should be a viable role on the field not just chum for "rambo" slayers to use in padding their kdr. Logistics need a buff, and I'm simply going to suggest the most reasonable buff I can see that will properly align their balance and deal with the "slayer/OP" threads afterwords, but to be blunt the fear of "slayer logi" has been vastly over blown for months (if not longer) at this point.
Amen to that!
Additionally I'd say, the main gripe Assaults have is the positioning of Logis above on the scoreboard...
So this matter should easily be solved, if CCP puts in a More KDR based scoreboard as an alternative (not for the payouts, but maybe as an additional board for endmatch analysis).
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