I'm still seeing the tourists abound, especially in ambush. BushLogis, it seems to me, are doing the most to reinforce the "Logis are WP whores" notion since they primarily ONLY rep or pitch links. As the matches are short and focused on killing those end of match leaderboards that list Logis in the top spots with or over good slayers create the easily distorted perception Logistics is ezmode. I've quietly sighed to myself many times while squadded with some random who decides to randomly run a beam then spend the next 7 minutes crowing about their WP take as they do NOTHING besides heavyblob.

As a sidenote.

Rattati did say they were going to try to make a mass based inertia system.

Which means logistics should be second only to scouts in terms of speed and stamina/stamina regen.

But that also means any eHP mods are going to have a crippling effect on logistics speed,but assaults it'll barely scratch.

So the most expensive suit in the game will probably have its strafe be sub par,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'.
As well as have crippling penalties to speed,which were actually meant to hurt scouts,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'.

That's if the rules are applied fairly.

Remember how he was willing (and almost eager) to nerf logistics speed while simultaneously buffing assault eHP and slots with 0 speed reduction?

That alone showed that logistics and assault are immune to the words 'fair' or 'balanced'.
The latter receiving the favoritism.


Something tells me logistics will still be disproportionately slow with low eHP.
And new speed penalties (on eHP mods) will push the class further to extinction.

Which is why BW was so readily accepted,because they're about to royally f*** the class up.
So they force anyone wanting to use equipment to stay in an even slower low eHP suit.


My future predicting powers say you're going to see 400-500 eHP logistics moving as fast as sentinels.
Or eHP stacked logistics moving slower than sentinels.
Assaults will be moving 1% slower,maybe.
Scouts will be unphased.
And sentinels will still be fat.


Brace for more heavy-logi QQ than ever before!

Upon reflection, it i think my growing concern is that there are truly a relative few professional logi players left. I've noticed quite a few people pitching ideas like rep tool nerfs or saying "the logi's are fine where they are now". Way more of those voices and most don't actually undertand the impact of what they are pitching.

We need some help. Would be nice if CCP Rattati would commit to working somehting out for us in the next HF.

As a sidenote.

Rattati did say they were going to try to make a mass based inertia system.

Which means logistics should be second only to scouts in terms of speed and stamina/stamina regen.

But that also means any eHP mods are going to have a crippling effect on logistics speed,but assaults it'll barely scratch.

So the most expensive suit in the game will probably have its strafe be sub par,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'.
As well as have crippling penalties to speed,which were actually meant to hurt scouts,because 'logistics shouldn't be able to survive'.

That's if the rules are applied fairly.

Remember how he was willing (and almost eager) to nerf logistics speed while simultaneously buffing assault eHP and slots with 0 speed reduction?

That alone showed that logistics and assault are immune to the words 'fair' or 'balanced'.
The latter receiving the favoritism.


Something tells me logistics will still be disproportionately slow with low eHP.
And new speed penalties (on eHP mods) will push the class further to extinction.

Which is why BW was so readily accepted,because they're about to royally f*** the class up.
So they force anyone wanting to use equipment to stay in an even slower low eHP suit.


My future predicting powers say you're going to see 400-500 eHP logistics moving as fast as sentinels.
Or eHP stacked logistics moving slower than sentinels.
Assaults will be moving 1% slower,maybe.
Scouts will be unphased.
And sentinels will still be fat.


Brace for more heavy-logi QQ than ever before!

This could all be made so much simpler.

1) Have both Logi & Assaults have the same suit stats and high/low slots. Adjust CPU / PG for outlier slot shifts.

2) Add a moderate amount of CPU to the Cal Logi and either a sidearm or 4th equipment slot. At this point I don't care which one - I can make both work fine. (I would probably prefer the sidearm option).

3) Give a second equipment option bonus to all logi suits so you've got a bigger range of options or just give everyone a different flavor of reptool bonus on top of their current bonus (range, intensity, etc).

4) Cut the price of equipment dramatically.

5) Don't nerf the rep tools. If you add a capacitor or heat mechanic give the logi's a massive role bonus to it's use (like 200% cap or heat build up). This is pretty similar to some of the different type of EVE mechanics and if pushed in a corner this is what we need to hold the line for.

Do 4 things and don't do 1 thing and we've got some solid progress.

I'm still seeing the tourists abound, especially in ambush. BushLogis, it seems to me, are doing the most to reinforce the "Logis are WP whores" notion since they primarily ONLY rep or pitch links. As the matches are short and focused on killing those end of match leaderboards that list Logis in the top spots with or over good slayers create the easily distorted perception Logistics is ezmode. I've quietly sighed to myself many times while squadded with some random who decides to randomly run a beam then spend the next 7 minutes crowing about their WP take as they do NOTHING besides heavyblob.

I've got to be honest here, I have been known to go solo and logi in ambush but quite I often I will solo in all game modes just to see if I can stay alive and still support. I feel dirty now but in my defence it is with support in mind and not to brag about WP whoring.

I must be a little mad as I often prefer to go solo, if I can get in a squad that's easy going then it's cool.

I like your suggestions,but i already know the answers.

1)Slayer logistics QQ
-truth be told logistics is about 100x more valuable than assaults so instead of trying to make assaults more appealing with fair and balanced changes,they'd rather black logistics eye an knock out a few teeth to make assaults look better by comparison.
-will never happen because logistics isn't favored like assaults

2)You forgot +1 equipment at basic.
-cal logistics actually have the same equipment as the cal scout,yet it cost the logistics base stats and a weapon.
-will be ignored because logistics isn't favored like assaults

3)Or give half bonuses to all equipment,and 100% to racial.
-This way any logistics will be better with any equipment than any other suit.
-will be ignored because logistics isn't favored like assaults,or even worse it'll be so half-assed it becomes too confusing to deal with

4)This should be obvious seeing as a PRO rep tool can't outrep a BASIC weapon.
-Full PRO equipment is almost if not more expensive as a full PRO weapon (old variation prices).
-So logistics has to foot the bill for a weapon and equipment as expensive as a main weapon,not sidearm,main...logistics aren't commandos FFS so these costs make 0 sense.
-will be ignored because logistics isn't favored like assaults,and CCP thinks it's fine that the easiest killed suit in the game also happens to be the most expensive (which just so happens to defy any normal or rational gaming logic)

5)The one and only tooth left in logistics badly beaten head are the rep tools.
-Scanners got insane cooldowns,uplinks got insane uptimes and low spawns,nanos received a dramatic cluster reduction without improved performance,and yes even rep tools were nerfed in range and rep amount.
-Well,there was one equipment that was buffed,the injector,but only after assault users said they use it...
It wasn't buffed for logistics it was buffed for assaults,sad isn't it?
-As long as logistics out shines assaults at anything (even their own role ) you can expect CCP to nerf that too,so i fully expect some imbecile with access to will do exactly that...if not sooner then later

Assaults are so favored they can get equipment buffed on a whim.

And players complain there aren't enough medics on the field.(because CCP ignores the actual medics and listens to the WP whores)

I've got to be honest here, I have been known to go solo and logi in ambush but quite I often I will solo in all game modes just to see if I can stay alive and still support. I feel dirty now but in my defence it is with support in mind and not to brag about WP whoring.

I must be a little mad as I often prefer to go solo, if I can get in a squad that's easy going then it's cool.

DONE!
Page 60, ready for use!!


If you'd have told me that it'd be 4+ months, 3+ patches and fixes, 60 pages and we'd still be waiting for basic worthwhile buffs I'd have said......

yeah, you're probably right.

I still like this idea.

Nothing to feel dirty about, brah. Running solo (RandomBlueBerryTheory, I call it) as a Logi can teach you a lot about what goes on that you wouldn't ever be exposed to were you anchored to a fatty. Things like Team Support vs Squad Support, for starters. Its not always a bad thing, running solo.

Nothing to feel dirty about, brah. Running solo (RandomBlueBerryTheory, I call it) as a Logi can teach you a lot about what goes on that you wouldn't ever be exposed to were you anchored to a fatty. Things like Team Support vs Squad Support, for starters. Its not always a bad thing, running solo.

IDK, I do ambush a fair amount so I can play with laz0rs and I find that if you play your cards right, uplinks can be super effective and very profitable. The latter part I suspect is probably due to the belief that uplinks are not that helpful so few actual logi's do it (and that we tend to hate ambush in general, it seems)

All the blueberries drop uplinks at the initial spawn point like idiots, or at best somewhere at the periphery of the blob, so what I do is take a nice fast/sneaky Dragonfly scout well off to the side and put them somewhere that can't be camped really easily.... ladder-accesible rooftops are are favorite, because I still have PTSD from the old tankbush days. Can't get an HAV up there!

At worst it never gets used if my side is winning easily. At best it gives the team (and me) a nice safe spot to spawn after the initial wave wipes a lot of us out and a new front needs to be formed.

I've tried this and it always back fired on me. I notice a lot of people who spawn on the default spawn and immediately lay one down to try and catch all the ones coming immediately after them. I used to use my dragonfly (which sadly can only lay down one hive now...) on the far corner. But I guess I've been the victim of too many bad matches. In those, I ended up being the only uplink left after we were bulldozed and inevitably camped.

That being said, I haven't dropped an uplink in ambush for almost 8 months now...

Just gonna kick this up off page 6

I take it there is not much else to report ?

Here's a short summary from what i've seen.
-logistics with it's lower eHP will still be slower than heavier tanked assaults.
-Although stamina will be higher.
-A PRO BP can still OHK any logistics.

-an omnisoldier (shayz) suggested nerfing equipment by reducing its output but increasing its carried amount for all classes
As a logistics purist i can easily see it as what it is,a horrible equipment destroying nerf disguised as a 'spam' solution.
"Need 2 grenades? Let me throw down 2 hives." (one for each grenade)
Cross is actually considering this nerf in the OP as a "good" thing for logistics,but it's actually a stealth buff for assaults.

-multiple 'add a capacitor to rep tools' threads have popped up.
These are from the same players that complained logistics were using their gun too much,and should be repping instead.
Now that logistics is repping,they're mad about that,saying logistics takes no 'skill' and should have to shoot every now and then.
Cross has apparently caved in to the whiny brats because he put forth an idea for a capacitor for rep tools,even though weapons can do 400% more damage than a tool can repair per second.

-assaults are still the biggest drama queens to play the game,and still get catered to hand and foot. (surprise surprise...)
These are the players that most often complain about BW and rep tool activation length.

-logistics will still not be getting that well deserved equipment cost reduction.
PRO equipment still pales in effect compared to basic weapons,yet costs say otherwise.

[sarcasm] I wish you had to get a players permission to OHK them with KN like you have to with injectors amirite? [/sarcasm]

-IMHO the recent changes to scanners could be seen as a buff.
Keeping the little arrow is actually pretty significant.

-Players are still trying to strip the Amarr logistics of its sidearm.
They say 'buff' it's actually a hard nerf.

-Nonlogistics users keep suggesting things that sound good in their own heads,but would actually be bad for logistics as a whole.
See all the logistics based suggestions not posted ITT.
(They're afraid of Meee!)


That's about all i've seen.

Amen. It's a pretty good summation.
While we have seen many new threads pop up about changes to the logistics class - mainly nerfs. We haven't seen an update from the OP Author in some time. Another CPM, SirManBoy, has posted that they are still working together and that he is still fighting the good fight for logis. (Cross, I worry - hope you are OK). But no more news than that.

No feedback threads opening up for proposed changes yet.... time is an enemy in these discussions when replies are limited by hype, NDA, current events, absent voices. I ponder on the amalgamation of fixes we will see. I would like it to be role defining in a positive way. That there may be some strengths to running a Logi. NOT JUST: "YOU CAN HOLD 3 or More pieces of equipment!" Base stats blow in most cases. Give them something more. Increased walking/strafing speed, faster regens, something more.

Speaking of equipment - Super expensive stuff. Drop the prices on that stuff!

The idea to hold more equipment is good IFF (that means: If and only If - to those unfamiliar to math rules... i digress) the logi naturally just gets more/better equipment. Turning all regular gear in to special logi gear. I think that dividing the uplinks is ok, But Dividing Nano Hives is ridiculous when the hives barely last as is! We are talking a clip per hive.... maybe, and maybe not even that (sarcasm).

A Logi's piece of equipment should blow away every other user's equipment. Enough so that a vocal squad would say to an assault or scout about to lay down a hive "don't drop that **** here, we have a logi". Any other suit running the supportive gear of a logi should be laughed at and shunned. No assault running a rep tool or a scout dropping a hive would be accepted in public.

A logi's hive should glow brighter, be bigger, and refill at twice the rate with 4 times as much nanites per hive (exagerated? not really). It Should Be Ridiculous how great the equipment of a logi is. When not-a-logi a player should feel like they are tossing crap, very expensive crap, onto the battlefield. A polished turd of an uplink. A Brown banana of an allotek hive. Etc.


While equipment does need tweaking, the equipment should be adequate but short lived (as it is now even with logi's) when used by all other classes. A scout has 2EQ slots (the logi-light) like the Amar logi, and can therefore out-logi the amarr with ease (the scout strafe is amazing). The bonuses should be so great that a even a 2 EQ logi (and honestly that needs adjusted to 3 and 4 for every race) should out do every bit of logi work that the scout could even attempt.

The current logi bonuses are inadequate when only racially applied. Apply the bonuses universally and we begin to see what a basic unleveled logi should look like. (BTW - Caldari bonus is still tooooooo low). After we have raised the new basic logi class to the level proposed then we apply the racial bonuses AGAIN and you may begin to see what I'm a proper logi would look like in my mind.



The Logi is to be a "force multiplier"...? When made out of 100.000+ isk paper that dies with each breeze on the battlefield my LOGI hands should reflect a godlike ability to resupply, repair, rally, revive, and reinforce; an ability that i was born to provide. IFF EQ is my bag... baby - MAKE IF FREAKING AWESOME in MY HANDS!