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Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1011	Posted - 2014.08.25 17:34:00 - [301] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Ok so there have been a few ideas thrown about on how to make logi's better from More HP to resistances. So I had an idea that may work but I'm not sure whether it's possible to do within the Hotfix only phase we are running. Anyway, to aid survivability how about when a logi is acitively repping a target he gets a "feedback" armour rep. Nothing stupidly OP, maybe 1 or 2 HP/s max AND only when the rep tool is active on a target. It's not enough to save a logi from alpha damage or prolonged/sustained fire but a little extra to encourage a logi to use the rep tool. Of course it may be a crap idea but trying to think of something other than HP buff etc Also I'm not sure if this has been suggested before and sorry if I have stolen someone else's idea Idea is now open to feedback, pull it to bits, discuss or whatever. I like this to an extent, but as I said before, it will kill diversity of logi suits so only armor tanked suits would see any benefit. So keep the idea of recieving a bonus while actively repping, just make the bonus a small damage resistance to all forms of damage for shields and armor. However I think either of our versions would be difficult with only server side. Straight up 15% damage resistance for logistics using a rep tool,i like it! Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 280	Posted - 2014.08.25 17:52:00 - [302] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Yup, because I don't like scouts acting like slayerlogis, so please, tweak my logis base stats into something in-between an assault and a scout, since we're expected to competitively interact with both.~~Brilliant~~. Basic. EZ. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2961	Posted - 2014.08.25 18:08:00 - [303] - Quote Meee One wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Ok so there have been a few ideas thrown about on how to make logi's better from More HP to resistances. So I had an idea that may work but I'm not sure whether it's possible to do within the Hotfix only phase we are running. Anyway, to aid survivability how about when a logi is acitively repping a target he gets a "feedback" armour rep. Nothing stupidly OP, maybe 1 or 2 HP/s max AND only when the rep tool is active on a target. It's not enough to save a logi from alpha damage or prolonged/sustained fire but a little extra to encourage a logi to use the rep tool. Of course it may be a crap idea but trying to think of something other than HP buff etc Also I'm not sure if this has been suggested before and sorry if I have stolen someone else's idea Idea is now open to feedback, pull it to bits, discuss or whatever. I like this to an extent, but as I said before, it will kill diversity of logi suits so only armor tanked suits would see any benefit. So keep the idea of recieving a bonus while actively repping, just make the bonus a small damage resistance to all forms of damage for shields and armor. However I think either of our versions would be difficult with only server side. Straight up 15% damage resistance for logistics using a rep tool,i like it! Unfortunately I don't think that's possible via hotfix since that's a behavior that currently doesn't exist on the rep tool, and trying to Frankenstein it over from Vehicle Hardeners may be too much.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 280	Posted - 2014.08.25 18:17:00 - [304] - Quote Meee One wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Yup, because I don't like scouts acting like logis, so please, turn my logi into a scout. Brilliant! FTFY. But seriously,what else is there? TBH i believe assaults got the wrong kind of buff (eHP). All the assault suit descriptions say they should have damage resistance. If assaults get eHP,all that's left is speed and regen. If we straight up copy assaults nothing will have improved. By making logistics more scout-like focusing on evasion and stealth it leaves open combat for the combat oriented suits,while logistics can (like scouts) work in the shadows. So,durable suits such as heavies and assaults can't hide. But frail suits like logistics and scouts can and escape.(non brick scouts that is) From personal experience i can say i've survived 10x longer when i ran to regroup as when i tried to fight. Unfortunately being slower with less eHP,and being easy to hit doesn't help with those times. Yeeeeup. We go outside of these parameters we start "weaponizing" logis and the whole slayerlogi crap swings back to the forefront. After that theres really just the more esoteric stuff like.....RDV priority when calling vehicles or maybe quickspawn bonusing or maybe bonuses to nanite speed from hives so we rep/resupply from them faster. All things that aren't really "logi" oriented and would be (justifiably in some cases) easily claimed by other roles. How much QQ was there for us having the cloak equip bonus because, "the cloak is for scouts". Nevermind the beauty in having your heavy get dropped, activating the cloak, being passed by the assaulting squad, reviving that heavy and reaming that group out. We don't need a ton of work, just contemporizing. A couple of effective glitch/imbalance fixes are almost buffs for us. After those, actual buffs to our movement speeds, a little (real small amount) extra hp, and reallowing us regen and I think we'd be there. Or we can start discussing the merits of giving us all our sidearms back and bonusing us for REs. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1600	Posted - 2014.08.25 18:37:00 - [305] - Quote logis can never be fixed not when any amount of ehp buff or slot changes will only effect their slayer attributes and not their ability to support. when i am a support player on the battlefield i know i am the weakest target on the field yet probably the most expensive so a prime target for any other player no matter what fit they are in. alternatively i can reduce my support abilities to become a bit less squishy but then i become a slayer logi and then i am fueling the slayer logi argument. im my eyes all classes should be combat first then their role. this way slayer arguments are void because we are all slayers. our roles would divide us all on how we take up our role. specific combat orientated classes become better killers through their roles and support classes do not need to forgo their role in order to compete and survive. some of my previous ideas on how to address the support issue https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=123577&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2235572#post2235572 All Hail Legion
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.08.25 19:17:00 - [306] - Quote Ok, we now have four groups. 1) Make logis scouts. (We already have scouts in this game thank you.) 2) Make logis heavies. (Again, we have those, but I like it better since it fits my playstyle since I live 20-30 meters behind the front lines or depending on the situation, on the frontlines) 3) Change the equipment and/or the bonuses (getting closer, since now we are focusing on what should make a logi unique on the battle field) 4) Keep the logis in their place and nerf them further. Slayer logi, never again. (Unless Rattati and the CPMs that still play the game have all recently drunk the lead filled kool aid then slayer logis will never happen again, so stop bitching about it.) Everything parentheses is obviously opinion. Keep tossing out ideas but make sure logis wind up unique and not just(insert class) light. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 281	Posted - 2014.08.25 21:47:00 - [307] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Ok, we now have four groups. 1) Make logis scouts. (We already have scouts in this game thank you.) 2) Make logis heavies. (Again, we have those, but I like it better since it fits my playstyle since I live 20-30 meters behind the front lines or depending on the situation, on the frontlines) 3) Change the equipment and/or the bonuses (getting closer, since now we are focusing on what should make a logi unique on the battle field) 4) Keep the logis in their place and nerf them further. Slayer logi, never again. (Unless Rattati and the CPMs that still play the game have all recently drunk the lead filled kool aid then slayer logis will never happen again, so stop bitching about it.) Everything parentheses is obviously opinion. Keep tossing out ideas but make sure logis wind up unique and not just(insert class) light. Notice I said "CPMs that still play the game" I would like to propose that CPMs that have logged less than 5 hours in the past 3 months get their tags removed or at least have their vote taken away until they are back up to speed and know the current situation of the game. Side note I know. Where is #1 being generated from? My suggestions? Because we have plenty of leeway to adjust our movement/regen base without cramping onto scouts, just like their having 1 equipment doesnt cramp logi'ing but having 2 does. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zindorak 1.U.P 674	Posted - 2014.08.25 22:57:00 - [308] - Quote Making it so that you dont need to be in Cal/Am Logi for the bonus as they have been tainted with the essence of that logi Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:39:00 - [309] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Where is #1 being generated from? My suggestions? Because we have plenty of leeway to adjust our movement/regen base without cramping onto scouts, just like their having 1 equipment doesnt cramp logi'ing but having 2 does. Where I am getting #1 is reductio ad absurdum of your comments yeah, however I could be down for logis being a bit better at e-war and have some more speed, but for the most part the suit itself is fine (cal could use a slight shield buff maybe), though it's the equipment and bonuses that will set logis apart, otherwise we are only homogenizing the classes. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 281	Posted - 2014.08.26 00:04:00 - [310] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Where is #1 being generated from? My suggestions? Because we have plenty of leeway to adjust our movement/regen base without cramping onto scouts, just like their having 1 equipment doesnt cramp logi'ing but having 2 does. Where I am getting #1 is reductio ad absurdum of your comments yeah, however I could be down for logis being a bit better at e-war and have some more speed, but for the most part the suit itself is fine (cal could use a slight shield buff maybe), though it's the equipment and bonuses that will set logis apart, otherwise we are only homogenizing the classes. Reductio ad absurdum, indeed. Lets not get lost in semantics, hm? The (logi)suits are real close to being just right. We need to be faster, universally. We need to be capable of absorbing, for a period of time, the conditions we are most often in. And we need to be unique enough that while other suits may be able to emulate some of what we do, NONE is able to replicate, let alone be BETTER than us at what we do. We have to rely on squad support, and we return their support with OUR support. But whats the point in supporting us if a) we're a liability under the circumstances or b) some other suit just outperforms us at our roles? Base buffs should plant us right between current scouts and assaults. Not quite as fast, not quite as tanky and definitely not bonused to weapons but competitive within the bracket, and competitive on the field. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Skullmiser Vulcansu 144	Posted - 2014.08.26 01:45:00 - [311] - Quote I use prototype Amarr Logistics suits. I am happy with Repair Tools, Nanite injectors, and Drop Uplinks as they are. Remote explosives could do with an increase in damage with tier. I think my AV grenades are lacking in power, as others have said, but I'm not sure that's a Logistics issue. I am dissatisfied with the Nanohives' cluster reserves. They are exhausted much too quickly now. I often drop an Alloteck Nanohive at a group of friendly units, and It disappears immediately. I don't think that I should have to play as a Caldari for their reserves to be increased just a bit. I think that Logistics suits should have their scanning precision enhanced to keep up with the light suits since 1.8. Before that update, scouts had 45 precision and profile. Now Logistics is the same, but scouts have 40 and 35 scanning precision and profile respectively. I would like it if Logistics suits had a scanning precision of 40db. I'm not too bothered by how slow my suit is. I just avoid using armor plates that restrict me more than 4%. Otherwise, I can't jump over most railings, and the armor becomes a liability. I've always preferred shields for this reason, and usually just have a reactive plate or something for armor repairs. I usually have a profile dampener so that people are more likely to leave me alone, and sometimes a PG enhancement module for my still-exhausted PG. I used to use a Laser Rifle, and a Scrambler Pistol, and it was wonderful, but since 1.8, the Scrambler Pistol fires too slowly to be useful to me in close quarters combat against any rifle. Now I use a Scrambler Rifle, and either a Scrambler Pistol or Knives. The scrambler rifle is swell, but It's hard to fit with the reduced PG for Amarr. The sidearm slot is no longer worth the PG reduction. I don't feel like I have issues with my survivability as long as I'm not taken unawares. The precision would help with that. I do think that my Logistics suits are too expensive for what they offer. I can get similar amounts of points with scout suits that are very cheap. I've been using logistics suits less and less, even though it's the only prototype suit I have. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2021	Posted - 2014.08.26 02:02:00 - [312] - Quote In answer to Post #1 Classic Logi Bro alternating with a Combat Engineer fit on Minmatar after Logistics No suggestions to equipment Effectiveness when measured in a support role can be tricky. My biggest concern is the aforementioned concerns others already shared about survivability. I don't think it has any bearing with the following but the instructions were pretty clear. My two cents on this is after whatever changes are purposed a Smell Test is conducted. A review. Start with a theoretical character with perfect fives in all skills. Select the same Faction's Assault and Logistics Frame of each tier. Fit them the same way with two exceptions: Assault still has a Side Arm and the Logistics with only one Equipment. Side-by-side compare the stat lines in a series of Thought Experiments. While the basics of damage, tanking, and mobility are easier to compare some serious attention needs to be applied the value of the "other" values (sensory stats, regen stats, stanima stats, etc). The game fundamentals have changed a lot with bonuses and weapons since the days of there being only one Assault, Logistics, Scout, and Heavy. It's past time to review these differences and how they balance-out/relate. TL;DR After doing complex changes unto a Logistic pause to do a comparison review against an equivalent Assault. I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1021	Posted - 2014.08.26 04:38:00 - [313] - Quote OK, let's revisit the concept of 'all logistics suits are better with equipment but racial equipment works better with racial suits'. Currently, the racial bonuses are: Role Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Seems to me that each race could have one of the two bonuses shared between all logistics suits, and the other one kept specific to that race (e.g. Minmatar logistics would keep the +5% repair amount but all logi suits would get +10%/level to repair range). Thoughts? Dust/Eve transfers
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4685	Posted - 2014.08.26 06:17:00 - [314] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Seems to me that each race could have one of the two bonuses shared between all logistics suits, and the other one kept specific to that race (e.g. Minmatar logistics would keep the +5% repair amount but all logi suits would get +10%/level to repair range). Thoughts? I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. Caldari: Bonuses to range or area effect Minmatar: Bonuses to speed and recharge Amarr: Bonuses to duration and amount carried etc I don't know if we can give a bonus to EVERY equipment, but I would like to see at least 3 bonuses per dropsuit. For instance, Caldari would get longer range for repair tool, longer range for scanner, and bigger nanohive radius. Don't know about the other races, but effectively something along the lines of this. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3910	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:09:00 - [315] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Making it so that you dont need to be in Cal/Am Logi for the bonus as they have been tainted with the essence of that logi Bad idea. Then you just turn these suits into temporary spam fits. Get ready for entire teams of Amarr logis carpet bombing the map with uplinks for the first 2 minutes of the match, and then disappearing at the supply depot, never to be seen again. I-Shayz-I wrote: I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. Here's my ideas for the other races (in no particular order) Minmatar (speed) -Reduced spawn time for uplinks -Faster recharge for scanners -Increased repair rate for repair tools Amarr (endurance) -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives -Increased visible duration for scanners -Increased spawn count for uplinks Caldari (ranged support) -Increased range for repair tools -Longer range for scanners -Larger raidus for nanohives Gallente (direct support) -Lower precision for Scanners -Increased resupply/repair rate for Nanohives -Increased repair rate for repair tools _______________________________________________________ I decided to give two races the repair tool bonus as there's only two ways you can increase the effectiveness of the repair tool. Uplinks are the same way, but between the two I'm guessing Gallente logistics would rather have the repair tool bonus to match their bonus to repair rate of nanohives. I like that, conceptually, a lot. Oh, wait.. not hotfixable slams forehead into table. Maybe for legion 1.8, not Dust. As a major proponent of the "every logi should be good with every type of equipment" method, I think making it racially themed could be great way to satisfy those who worry about the suits getting homogenized. But, once again you run into the problem of fighting over the bonuses, specifically rep tools. Why does every race, except the Amarr, get some type of bonus to it? Even the Caldari do, under your proposal. (And then you take away the best part of the existing bonus, to boot. The Minmatar get the fast spawns now? I just threw up in my mouth a little.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4685	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:21:00 - [316] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. I like that, conceptually, a lot. Oh, wait.. not hotfixable slams forehead into table. (And then you take away the best part of the existing bonus, to boot. The Minmatar get the fast spawns now? I just threw up in my mouth a little.) Wait, how is it not hotfixable? I thought we just changed around the scout bonuses...how is this not any different? Minmatar could get faster resupply/repair rate for nanohives instead of the gallente, but I have no idea what to give the gallente for the third bonus. But where do you put the uplink bonus? Reduced spawn time doesn't fit with Amarr at all, and the gallente might be okay with it, but it doesn't make much sense for this "racial theme". The bonus could also be reduced because it's with the minmatar, while the bonus to uplink spawn count could be increased for the Amarr. I'd rather have these sort of bonuses applied to the skills, or a separate skill (like proficiency), but THAT is the kind of thing that would be better for Legion and isn't at all possible for a hotfix. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1015	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:23:00 - [317] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Ok, we now have four groups. 1) Make logis more like scouts. (We already have scouts in this game thank you.) 2) Make logis heavies. (Again, we have those, but I like it better since it fits my playstyle since I live 20-30 meters behind the front lines or depending on the situation, on the frontlines) 3) Change the equipment and/or the bonuses (getting closer, since now we are focusing on what should make a logi unique on the battle field) 4) Keep the logis in their place and nerf them further. Slayer logi, never again. (Unless Rattati and the CPMs that still play the game have all recently drunk the lead filled kool aid then slayer logis will never happen again, so stop bitching about it.) Everything parentheses is obviously opinion. Keep tossing out ideas but make sure logis wind up unique and not just(insert class) light. Notice I said "CPMs that still play the game" I would like to propose that CPMs that have logged less than 5 hours in the past 3 months get their tags removed or at least have their vote taken away until they are back up to speed and know the current situation of the game. Side note I know. About #4... I'd like to remind all posters,in the initial post about 'charlie'... CCP actually intended to nerf logistics speed (with the same 30 eHP from their racial scout) and buff assaults speed (even though more tank should mean less speed),and remove the Amarr logistics sidearm (even though they have 1 less module slot). So, IMHO i believe CCP is completely drunk on the "killer bee kool-aid". CCP clearly put 0 thought into the nerf(s),and offered 0 buffs to compensate,which shows when it comes to the logistics class they have no problem destroying them,but major problems buffing them. I would feel better about the future of logistics if the Dev in charge of them didn't run assault. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1015	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:37:00 - [318] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Seems to me that each race could have one of the two bonuses shared between all logistics suits, and the other one kept specific to that race (e.g. Minmatar logistics would keep the +5% repair amount but all logi suits would get +10%/level to repair range). Thoughts? I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. Caldari: Bonuses to range or area effect Minmatar: Bonuses to speed and recharge Amarr: Bonuses to duration and amount carried etc I don't know if we can give a bonus to EVERY equipment, but I would like to see at least 3 bonuses per dropsuit. For instance, Caldari would get longer range for repair tool, longer range for scanner, and bigger nanohive radius. Don't know about the other races, but effectively something along the lines of this. Edit: Here's my ideas for the other races (in no particular order) Minmatar (speed) -Reduced spawn time for uplinks -Faster recharge for scanners -Increased repair rate for repair tools -Increased amount refilled by nanos Amarr (endurance) -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives -Increased visible duration for scanners -Increased spawn count for uplinks -Small increase to rep tool range and rate Caldari (ranged support) -Increased range for repair tools -Longer range for scanners -Larger raidus for nanohives -More uplinks carried Gallente (direct support) -Lower precision for Scanners -Increased repair rate for Nanohives -Increased repair rate for repair tools -More uplinks deployed _______________________________________________________ I decided to give two races the repair tool bonus as there's only two ways you can increase the effectiveness of the repair tool. Uplinks are the same way, but between the two I'm guessing Gallente logistics would rather have the repair tool bonus to match their bonus to repair rate of nanohives. Those bonuses would tear the logistics class apart. It would be too complicated. Flat,but lesser bonuses would enable more freedom without being so unnecessarily restrictive. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 282	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:50:00 - [319] - Quote There may also be opportunity (tech allowing) to run logi bonuses through modules, versus explicitly via equipment. For example, and please don't get racial-lore crazy on me this is just for example: Amarr logis get a (nonstacking) speed bonus to armor plates which offsets the plating speed reduction, allowing up-armoring with making that slug an even slower slug. OR Caldari logis get a (nonstacking) shield extender bonus to offset cpu/pg cost I realize this is very similar to our regen buffing convo, but these could be module specific bonuses, as opposed to outright base stat buffing (which must happen), and could allow creation of real unique variants across the class without overemphasis on which race gets which equipment bonuses. Coupled together, bonusing this way will allow creation of some very strong fits that still accomodate diverse uses and lessens instances of very strong fits that are total one-trick ponies coughslugAmarrLogiuplinkspamcough Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4394	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:58:00 - [320] - Quote I'd like to see a Allotek Nanohive version in the LP store that would take more than one flux to kill. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 282	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:05:00 - [321] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd like to see a Allotek Nanohive version in the LP store that would take more than one flux to kill. I'd be down with that, it'd go in the collection of rad LP gear like 100%needles, 3 second links and 90hp/sec dual-beams. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1016	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:49:00 - [322] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd like to see a Allotek Nanohive version in the LP store that would take more than one flux to kill. Same clusters as Pro hives, but a slower refill rate? Sounds amarrian. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3910	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:53:00 - [323] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. I like that, conceptually, a lot. Oh, wait.. not hotfixable slams forehead into table. (And then you take away the best part of the existing bonus, to boot. The Minmatar get the fast spawns now? I just threw up in my mouth a little.) Wait, how is it not hotfixable? I thought we just changed around the scout bonuses...how is this not any different? Minmatar could get faster resupply/repair rate for nanohives instead of the gallente, but I have no idea what to give the gallente for the third bonus. But where do you put the uplink bonus? Reduced spawn time doesn't fit with Amarr at all, and the gallente might be okay with it, but it doesn't make much sense for this "racial theme". The bonus could also be reduced because it's with the minmatar, while the bonus to uplink spawn count could be increased for the Amarr. I'd rather have these sort of bonuses applied to the skills, or a separate skill (like proficiency), but THAT is the kind of thing that would be better for Legion and isn't at all possible for a hotfix. I guess I should be more specific. Moving around existing bonuses is obviously hot-fixable. Others, like the scanner cooldown time and nanohive radius, those bonuses currently don't exist that I'm aware of, so they may not be. I also don't see why faster spawns don't fit in with the Amarr "at all", and tbh increased spawn count is kinda weak, even my "sneaky" or fallback uplinks frequently either get taken out before they reach their max, or become obsolete and I place a new one elsewhere. I guess what it really boils down to is that while I very much like the idea of racial-themed bonuses to broaden out the utility of the logi suits without making them too alike, I still think it should be to every piece of equipment, otherwise someone gets short changed somewhere, and in your example I have an admittedly biased opinion that it's the Amarr. You've taken away the most powerful bonus the suit has, which is faster spawns, and given it to the Minmatar, which already has the most desirable bonus of all. And in return, the Amarr get what? Longer duration on scanners that can't pick anyone up because there's no precision bonus? The fastest spawns and the best rep tools? With your proposal you basically finish the job of making every logi suit but the Minmatar completely pointless and obsolete. Why not have each suit: 1) Keep it's existing bonus, that way you can't argue (as I just have) that any change nerfs a suit, because we are only adding bonuses, not taking them away or changing them. Everyone who skilled into the suit with that bonus in mind won't have to feel like they wasted their SP. 2) Give additional racially-themed bonuses that are clearly weaker than the existing ones, so there is no major overlap. You could do it a number of ways, but in general the way you split the bonuses in half is a solid method. I personally prefer that all 4 equipment types are included, not everyone may agree. Regardless, I really think everyone should get a reptool bonus of some kind, maybe similar to what you've already proposed but include the Amarr. Again, I think you are just inviting flame wars and respec threads if you don't. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 240	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:37:00 - [324] - Quote As a Cal logi (pro) I'm better off running repper hives, uplinks and a reptool for my team to farm WP and get an OB than running regular hives. Drop a proto nano hive (ammo only) people swarm to it and you're left with 50 points tops. That's 2 uplinks spawns or 2 triage ticks. On paper the bonus is great but there really isn't any reward to run nano hives (the ammo ones) if you take the ISK cost of them into consideration and how easily they're destroyed. Like I've stated before: It bugs the hell out of me is that my logi Ck.0 is so damn slow. I have to use a CPU mod since my suit was robbed of CPU and I carry proto equipment. In the other 3 lows I NEED to have a reactive plate, cardiac reg and a kincat so I can keep up with the heavy I'm repping. So for survivability I have to rely on my shield modules like a should. Problem is that because of the pg intensive cardiac modules to keep up with the heavies (who run kincats 9/10 times) in the first place I now have to sacrifice my main form of defense aswell. Recharge and main tank, because shields have high fitting costs aswell. for me as a shield user i'd like to see (this goes btw for all logis): - more speed - increase in WP from nano hives (ammo hives) - better regen - shield reptool So the Cal and Min sentinel can stand and deliver too. Don't bring up the regen of the Cal sentinel. Because a reptool on a armor sentinel gives that one a higher rep rate than the Cal and Min rep rate with recharger or energizer modules. There should be a reptool that reps armor slow maybe 15 hp/s and bypasses the shield recharge delay for shield sentinels to benefit from in combination with their modules. my 2 ISK
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1016	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:46:00 - [325] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: As a Cal logi (pro) I'm better off running repper hives, uplinks and a reptool for my team to farm WP and get an OB than running regular hives. Drop a proto nano hive (ammo only) people swarm to it and you're left with 50 points tops. That's 2 uplinks spawns or 2 triage ticks. On paper the bonus is great but there really isn't any reward to run nano hives (the ammo ones) if you take the ISK cost of them into consideration and how easily they're destroyed. Like I've stated before: It bugs the hell out of me is that my logi Ck.0 is so damn slow. I have to use a CPU mod since my suit was robbed of CPU and I carry proto equipment. In the other 3 lows I NEED to have a reactive plate, cardiac reg and a kincat so I can keep up with the heavy I'm repping. So for survivability I have to rely on my shield modules like a should. Problem is that because of the pg intensive cardiac modules to keep up with the heavies (who run kincats 9/10 times) in the first place I now have to sacrifice my main form of defense aswell. Recharge and main tank, because shields have high fitting costs aswell. for me as a shield user i'd like to see (this goes btw for all logis): - more speed - increase in WP from nano hives (ammo hives) - better regen - shield reptool So the Cal and Min sentinel can stand and deliver too. Don't bring up the regen of the Cal sentinel. Because a reptool on a armor sentinel gives that one a higher rep rate than the Cal and Min rep rate with recharger or energizer modules. There should be a reptool that reps armor slow maybe 15 hp/s and bypasses the shield recharge delay for shield sentinels to benefit from in combination with their modules. my 2 ISK +1 The shield rep tool could be caldari made,and Cal logistics could get bonuses to it. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 436	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:33:00 - [326] - Quote Now that installations are so important (for example on Ambush OMS bridge map) a proto Axis repair tool would fill a void and add a dynamic element to the game. This would have mediocre effect on infantry but would be excellent on vehicles and installations. It would enable teams to keep supply depots and key turrets alive when rail/missile turrets and forges are focused on them. Depending on how valuable the installation is, more reps could be put on it.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 371	Posted - 2014.08.27 03:15:00 - [327] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: (And then you take away the best part of the existing bonus, to boot. The Minmatar get the fast spawns now? I just threw up in my mouth a little.) Too much sacramental wine? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 371	Posted - 2014.08.27 03:26:00 - [328] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: The fastest spawns and the best rep tools? With your proposal you basically finish the job of making every logi suit but the Minmatar completely pointless and obsolete. I'm good with this. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4694	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:21:00 - [329] - Quote Again, Those bonuses were just IDEAS, I never said that they were balanced by any means or that that's how it should be set up. I just think it would be cool to have each logi focused on one type of playstyle rather than every logi getting similar bonuses. Giving every suit a bonus to repair tools would be like giving every assault a reduction in heat buildup for the scrambler rifle, or every sentinel suit a reduction to projectile damage. Just because it's the most desired/useful bonus doesn't mean every suit should get it. That said, maybe the 3-4 bonuses to logistics should be something like this: -Current bonuses to equipment (possibly slightly reduced) -2 bonuses to other equipment aside from enemy's equipment Amarr could be: -Decreased spawn time for uplinks -Increased spawn count for uplinks -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives (not as much as Caldari) -Longer visible duration for scanners (not as much as Gallente -(No bonus to repair tools because Minmatar are enemies) Minmatar could be: -Faster repair rate for repair tools -Increased range for repair tools -Increased resupply/repair rate for nanohives (not as much as Caldari) -Faster recharge time for scanners -(No bonus to uplinks because Amarr are enemies) Caldari could be: -Increased resupply/repair rate for nanohives -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives -Increased range for repair tools (not as much as Minmatar) -Increased spawn count for uplinks (not as much as Amarr) -(No bonus to scanners because Gallente are enemies) Gallente could be: -Decreased precision for scanners -Increased visible duration for scanners -Increased repair rate for repair tools (not as much as Minmatar) -Decreased spawn time for uplinks (not as much as Amarr) -(No bonus to nanohives because Caldari are enemies) Opinions? I'd like to see your idea for what the bonuses should be (bonuses towards equipment efficacy though, nothing like more nanohives being able to be carried or deployed...those kinds of bonuses would not be easily balanced) _______________________________________________________________________________ Again, maybe this idea is crazy, I'd just like to see each suit have a defined playstyle rather than every logistics class be the same with different armor/shield values Yeah, repair tools are probably the most useful tool for DIRECT SUPPORT logistics, but why do the Amarr or Caldari need to be good at playing direct support? These should be the passive support classes and should get bonuses towards a passive playstyle. Not saying each race should be one or another (they all should be capable or doing anything), but there should be a clear reason/advantage for wanting to skill into one suit and not the other. As a final side note, YES these bonuses are hotfixable because they added a grenade cpu reduction to assaults without having it pre-existing. Hotfixable things are those dealing with numbers and pre-existing content. You don't need to make a "physical" asset in order to add a bonus to a skill, because in-game it's just a value. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3916	Posted - 2014.08.27 11:38:00 - [330] - Quote The idea is by no means crazy, I simply prefer doing it do that no piece of equipment is as good on another class of suit as it is on any logi suit. Splitting the bonuses in half for some racial flavor is a great way to do it. And I could be totally wrong about the hot fixes, but odd things (WP for needles, for example) often turn out to be harder to fix than even CCP thinks. A fitting reduction is also different than a bonus changing a fundamental property of a piece of equipment, like the radius of a a nanohive. (The godfather of tactical logistics)



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