Low profile equipment. Another good variant they could add!

Cross, what's your opinion on making Logistics be like scout suits, with their current low health, better suit ewar and faster speed than assaults? I really feel like this keeps them from being "slayerlogis" (although we haven't needed to worry about that in a long time) and gives them a better role for a team.

I think a case could be made for having the Logistics suits be the "light" Medium frames while the Assault suits are the "heavy" Medium frames.

I would be interested in hearing community debate/input on that specific sub-topic.

I do want to emphasize however that both the Medium frames should very much remain Medium to preserve role values, but things to make Logi/Assault more unique from each other and more of a specialization choice seems worth looking at.

I think a case could be made for having the Logistics suits be the "light" Medium frames while the Assault suits are the "heavy" Medium frames.

I would be interested in hearing community debate/input on that specific sub-topic.

I do want to emphasize however that both the Medium frames should very much remain Medium to preserve role values, but things to make Logi/Assault more unique from each other and more of a specialization choice seems worth looking at.

As I mentioned in my main post in this thread, I favor the option of making them the "light" medium frames.
Because reasons.
(that I think I put in that post.)

No amount of speed is going to keep you alive and supporting your team while in a gunfight with low hp.

Enter - more logis hiding in the corner because of squishy suits and high cost equipment.

These posts?
#1 & #2

Counter point noted, care to elaborate a bit more for the sake of discussion?

The more clearly articulated a community view I can present to CCP the better case can be made for either change.

Counter point noted, care to elaborate a bit more for the sake of discussion?

The more clearly articulated a community view I can present to CCP the better case can be made for either change.

No, there needs to be more reptools, less rep hives.

Rep hives devalue logistics players and make repair spam trivial.

Survivability needs to be addressed one way or another. A smaller hit box and more speed would work. More EHP would work too.

I also strongly feel that logis' precision should be lowered to 40. This would enable logis to get their precision under 24 by fitting two complex PEs. Under 24 is low enough to detect non-dampened cal/gal scouts with proto cloak. Scouts could still get under this passive scan with one complex dampener. This way logis could sacrifice tank to have a chance at detecting incoming scouts--a valuable support role--and scouts would face more pressure to commit to dampening.

Survivability needs to be addressed one way or another. A smaller hit box and more speed would work. More EHP would work too.

I also strongly feel that logis' precision should be lowered to 40. This would enable logis to get their precision under 24 by fitting two complex PEs. Under 24 is low enough to detect non-dampened cal/gal scouts with proto cloak. Scouts could still get under this passive scan with one complex dampener. This way logis could sacrifice tank to have a chance at detecting incoming scouts--a valuable support role--and scouts would face more pressure to commit to dampening.

Ah cross, CROOOSSS!.

If logis get hp buffs, please forward it that it should be relative to the racial philosophies.

Ill cry if my logi gets an armour buff and in fact, the hp we have now could do with some addressing. My min logi has more armour than shield base stats.

Ah cross, CROOOSSS!.

If logis get hp buffs, please forward it that it should be relative to the racial philosophies.

Ill cry if my logi gets an armour buff and in fact, the hp we have now could do with some addressing. My min logi has more armour than shield base stats.

That's something I will say unequivocally, I will be advocating for any/all logistics suit buffs to maintain racial flavor.
Maintaining this speaks to diversity and meaningful player choice.

I think messing with the hitbox in any case is just bad practice. Then suddenly you have a situation where bullets are appearing to hit the model, but are not colliding with the hitbox. Not only does it not make sense aesthetically, but it causes gameplay issues where its unclear what part of the enemy model is 'hittable' and what isn't. While some variation in Model vs Hitbox will occure between genders and races, the difference is small enough to be non issue. Hitbox needs to be dictated by the frame size and that alone.

At this point, fear or "Slayer Logis" is unmeritied. It's clear that CCP is moving towards a standardized slot layouts for frames as a whole, and we'll likely see Logistics suits matching their Assault counterparts very soon. That being said, all Assaults recently had a 100 HP increase. Logistics previously had around 50 HP less than their Assault counterpart (varied slightly by race), and that difference has now increased to around 150 post-Charlie. In addition, Assaults now have similar PG/CPU compared to their Logistics counterparts.

So Here's what you've got

Assaults
150 More Hp Than Logistics
Similar Slots
Similar Fitting
Only need to fit 1 equipment
Reduction to Light/Grenade Fitting offsets Sidearm cost.
Higher Speed
High Stamina

Look at that, generally there is physically no way for a Logistics to have significantly more HP than its Assault counterpart. Logis still need to fill the same number of slots, as well as 2-3 additional equipment. Even if they don't fit the equipment, their defenses cant exceed the Assault much because they have similar slots. EVen if you gave the Logistics the same 100 HP bonus, they fall short of the Assault in terms of survivability if they use equipment, and come close to matching if they don't.

Personal opinion here, give Logis the same 100 HP bonus, bringing the average HP difference between Assaults and Logis back to around 50HP. Increase fitting bonus from 25% to 50%. This means a logi using 4 equipment really only has to fit 2 effectivly, since two of them are 'free'. So here's the fitting comparison (Minmatar for an example since that's the one I'm most used to)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14uuIpinpRTM-RsPQdIb8bfkZ74eOYyZrLZUIoF87jeA/edit?usp=sharing

Looking at that, Logis have sub-par base HP but to a lesser degree and this is fine. Since slots and resources are the same, Logis can't skip equipment to gain better defenses than an assault, but the fitting reduction for the equipment is higher, meaning that they really only need to fit one more equipment worth of PG/CPU on than the ASsault. Admiditly the savings on Light Weapons and Grenades probably isnt enough to completely offset the Assault's sidearm, so the Assaults need to partially fit a sidearm, and Logis need to full fit an additional equipment (which will cut in to their defenses slightly, but that's also OK). So what you have now is a Logi that can fit similar defenses to that of an Assault, but not exceed, and not be completely weighed down by the cost of his equipment.

But it's not much different now with the buff to armor reps. Its either an enhanced repper or an enhanced plate, basically (+5hp/s or +100 hp). I can't quote the fitting costs off the top of my head, but they aren't so different as to be a bigger deal than the speed penalty for equipping a plate. Given the choice, I'd rather have the base HP for that reason if nothing else, tbh.

Well you kinda touched on my point. Let's assume we don't buff the Logi HP

Assault has the +100HP, fits a rep. Has HP & Rep. No downside.

Logi has the rep, needs to fit HP mod to compensate for low base HP. Has HP & Rep. Stuck with downside of HP mod.

Adding reps instead of base HP is the same result as adding hp instead of reps, but it's really 2 steps forward and one step back, and it feels kinda messy. I'd rather just have the 100 more HP in that case.

Why can't Logi's be lower HP self repping suits of efficiency?

To the logis that don't brink tank, could you use www.protofits.com to show how you set up your Logi suits?

Because right now, I'm running a Min, Cal, and Gal logi. All 3 of them are using proto EQ, proto Light Weapon, and the lowest HP is the Caldari because I've got a Complex Recharger and Complex Regulator on it. Min is rocking 900 total HP, the Caldari has 800 total HP, and the Gallente has 1100 total HP

The difference in speed and stamina isn't significant enough for me to really care unless the distance we're trying to travel would be more suited to LAV/DS

If I sacrificed the Regen mods for more HP I could get the caldari up to 900. Give it another 100HP because that's what people want and it ends up with 1000 total HP. While my Caldari Commando, a Heavy Frame, has 1100 Total HP right now using 3x complex shield extenders and a complex reactive plate.

I can max out HP on a Gallente Commando with 1330 total HP. Give that Gallente Logistics another HP and they're only 100HP apart.

How is this not indicative of power creep? Bad enough my Assault Suits have more HP than a Heavy Frame, why should Logistics also be better at this?

Why can't Logi's be lower HP self repping suits of efficiency? I understand that, "Tuesdays!!! Armor reps are Gallente!!!" Well, do you think no technology has ever been stolen and used by *gasp* a competitor, even if it's less efficient? Ask the Germans where their rocket program went after WWII.

Give us a basic bonus to ALL equipment, after all, it's what we DO. Anything but a blanket, "here's some more HP" solution...