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Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 802	Posted - 2014.08.30 02:18:00 - [361] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 379	Posted - 2014.08.30 03:57:00 - [362] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I'm all for racial equality... Of gear. (Otherwise you're on your own; the Empire shall prevail.) On behalf half of all Minmatar... Get bent. heavily slaps bogeyman on the back with a hearty laugh "You are not the first and highly unlikely to be the last matari to say that, young one! Have a drink, we will settle it on the battlefield tomorrow..." What are you going to do? Rep each other to death? Well, I do carry a needle... It's pointy and not particularly sterile. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 07:18:00 - [363] - Quote From page 7: el OPERATOR wrote: 3. (riot time) Logistics class should be a level 5 Dropsuit Command unlock. That's right. Drop suit Command to level 5 before accessing Logi frames. For a long time now the logistics class has been inundated by tourists. Individuals who maybe started a character, learned enough to recognize the WP/SP relationship to progression who then undertake the role SOLELY in a point farming capacity to speed their own progression into w/e FOTM they actually want. THESE are the mil needle/rep farmers. These are the HIV next to the supply depot farmers. These are the largely ignorant/disinterested "logis" running around bricktanked spamming what little equipment they can carry after their 0 coreskill investment HP load allows, slaying. Make the role and the class of LOGISTICS a dedicated decision whose impact on the field is reflective of its users' having entered intentionally, not as a peripheral, not as a WP farm stepstone. This will also help w/ players without some of the fundamental gameplay knowledge or experience entering the class, being silly on the field and then ridiculous on the forums. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3944	Posted - 2014.08.30 12:44:00 - [364] - Quote I think the only problem with the level 5 proposition is that it will keep new players from being a logi and the spam monkeys will just use scout suits instead. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1630	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:22:00 - [365] - Quote Yeah, I'm confused as to how spending about 200k so is going to deter people. Shoot Scout with yes.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1602	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:15:00 - [366] - Quote all this talk about +1 extra equipment deployed or other buffs to equipment will not work because it doesn't address any of the issues around why so few players use logi's or use them as logis. All Hail Legion
Zindorak 1.U.P 733	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:02:00 - [367] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. No I don't think you understand +1 max active per level is what i think we should get. Im willing to give up a sidearm Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 804	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:55:00 - [368] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. No I don't think you understand +1 max active per level is what i think we should get. Im willing to give up a sidearm Nah, I was picking up what you were putting down. That's why I said it's fine as long as it wasn't active deployable. You seriously, no trolling, want to be able to deploy 21 active uplinks on 1 suit? I thought part of this thread was trying to limit equipment spam, and you want to make the Amarr Logi the biggest spammer in the game? Do you find it that hard currently to just switch between two or three different Amarr Logi fits and spam every link available? Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:06:00 - [369] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I think the only problem with the level 5 proposition is that it will keep new players from being a logi and the spam monkeys will just use scout suits instead. And thats the point. Keep full noobs with no real idea how to conduct themselves in battle out of logi frames so they instead will use their starters or other mediums to do basic "how-to" development. And the spammers will use their other frames also which limits their ability to spam, limiting the ill-effects of the spam like lag or worthless/detrimental placement and the subsequent ill reputation logis as a whole get from it. It could also keep some of the slayer oriented folks away, since it would not just be more effective battlefield-wise (from the bonuses) to use an assault(scout) to slay it'd be cheaper SP-wise. Granted, after a certain point a couple hundred thousand SP isn't a huge threshold for experienced players, whats that, a week or two of active play? BUT early on, when gaining and using SP is most important a couple hundred thousand extra to unlock the fit may be enough to deter those who aren't actually into running logistics from entering logistics and keep them in the other categories. Experienced players ideally would have a more well rounded idea of what goes on, a better reference as to what is expected of a logi and an easier time getting the SP to make the investment in the class. Thereby possibly increasing the quality of the logistics playerbase as a whole. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1603	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:19:00 - [370] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think the only problem with the level 5 proposition is that it will keep new players from being a logi and the spam monkeys will just use scout suits instead. And thats the point. Keep full noobs with no real idea how to conduct themselves in battle out of logi frames so they instead will use their starters or other mediums to do basic "how-to" development. And the spammers will use their other frames also which limits their ability to spam, limiting the ill-effects of the spam like lag or worthless/detrimental placement and the subsequent ill reputation logis as a whole get from it. It could also keep some of the slayer oriented folks away, since it would not just be more effective battlefield-wise (from the bonuses) to use an assault(scout) to slay it'd be cheaper SP-wise. Granted, after a certain point a couple hundred thousand SP isn't a huge threshold for experienced players, whats that, a week or two of active play? BUT early on, when gaining and using SP is most important a couple hundred thousand extra to unlock the fit may be enough to deter those who aren't actually into running logistics from entering logistics and keep them in the other categories. Experienced players ideally would have a more well rounded idea of what goes on, a better reference as to what is expected of a logi and an easier time getting the SP to make the investment in the class. Thereby possibly increasing the quality of the logistics playerbase as a whole. this punishes those players who enjoy helping others and might deter them from going into the logi role when others are much easier to get into. this wont fix anything. infact it will further reduce the amount of logis on the field and with a higher minimum sp requirement than all other classes it will probably be the nail in the coffin. remember logis already have the highest sp requirements of all other suits due to equipment. adding more sp requirements just to get into logi is just a bad idea All Hail Legion

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:26:00 - [371] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. No I don't think you understand +1 max active per level is what i think we should get. Im willing to give up a sidearm I"m also a no, last thing we or anybody else needs is better spamming circumstances. And I am not willing to trade the sidearm for them. If the link placement you use is worth a **** you don't need to lay 7 of them at a time. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:42:00 - [372] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: I think the only problem with the level 5 proposition is that it will keep new players from being a logi and the spam monkeys will just use scout suits instead. And thats the point. Keep full noobs with no real idea how to conduct themselves in battle out of logi frames so they instead will use their starters or other mediums to do basic "how-to" development. And the spammers will use their other frames also which limits their ability to spam, limiting the ill-effects of the spam like lag or worthless/detrimental placement and the subsequent ill reputation logis as a whole get from it. It could also keep some of the slayer oriented folks away, since it would not just be more effective battlefield-wise (from the bonuses) to use an assault(scout) to slay it'd be cheaper SP-wise. Granted, after a certain point a couple hundred thousand SP isn't a huge threshold for experienced players, whats that, a week or two of active play? BUT early on, when gaining and using SP is most important a couple hundred thousand extra to unlock the fit may be enough to deter those who aren't actually into running logistics from entering logistics and keep them in the other categories. Experienced players ideally would have a more well rounded idea of what goes on, a better reference as to what is expected of a logi and an easier time getting the SP to make the investment in the class. Thereby possibly increasing the quality of the logistics playerbase as a whole. this punishes those players who enjoy helping others and might deter them from going into the logi role when others are much easier to get into. this wont fix anything. infact it will further reduce the amount of logis on the field and with a higher minimum sp requirement than all other classes it will probably be the nail in the coffin. remember logis already have the highest sp requirements of all other suits due to equipment. adding more sp requirements just to get into logi is just a bad idea I think its the opposite actually, this ensures that those who are serious about helping and doing support are the ones who enter the class. And trading a small portion of the worthless logis to increase the in-battle value of worthwhile logis is a good rrade. We are built not just to provide support but also require support to be successful. Many, many players tho are slow or don't protect the logis because many too many "logis" are just spam/WP whoring idiots. The higher the entry bar, the higher the quality potential and more likely logis will be considered as deserving of the support they need to survive giving the support they provide. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1605	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:39:00 - [373] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I think its the opposite actually, this ensures that those who are serious about helping and doing support are the ones who enter the class. And trading a small portion of the worthless logis to increase the in-battle value of worthwhile logis is a good rrade. We are built not just to provide support but also require support to be successful. Many, many players tho are slow or don't protect the logis because many too many "logis" are just spam/WP whoring idiots. The higher the entry bar, the higher the quality potential and more likely logis will be considered as deserving of the support they need to survive giving the support they provide. i came into this game and started as a logi/av player 100% player support on my mind. i didn't care at all about killing other players directly. a lot of players feel this way. they don't mind the odd kill but they enjoy all the support mechanics and items much, much more than killing. all this idea does is tells every like minded player as myself they must be a killer and if they want to play the type of gameplay they actually like then they have to invest more of everything to do it compared to every other class. if that had been the case for me i would never have played dust. also your highlighting stuff like spam. that is not a problem with the player. that is a problem with the suits/equipment and other flawed mechanics. your so called fix would not fix those issues. it would just put them at a higher level which everyone who abuses those mechanics would still do. we keep shifting the issues of the logi or hiding them behind buffs/nerfs to everything else without fixing the actual issues. you cannot fix the logi by creating more sp sinks because at some point everyone will surpass those sp limitations and then the sink is pointless. bonuses to equipment only buffs the equipment not the logi, ehp/cpu changes only feeds the slayers. there are no simple fixes to the logi and certainly sp sinks will only be seen as a punishment to logis. we can only fix logis by doing a drastic overhaul and taking them in a different direction. otherwise we will just end up going in circles again as with every other change All Hail Legion
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:58:00 - [374] - Quote It doesn't tell them they must be killers, it tells them to take it seriously and tells those looking for the minimal investment with the maximum payout to look elsewhere. I also have been logistics from the start and have weathered every update, patch and hotfix since the open beta period day 1 when I started. Logistics right now is in a very good spot, provided a couple things for overall survivability are addressed. After those adjustments, raising the cost of entry will limit some of the abuse potential since the class will not be a dime a dozen. Spam is ABSOLUTELY the fault of the player. The PLAYER is in charge of his/her ACTIONS. Equipment doesn't spam itself. Have you ever been running your repper and suddenly had ALL of your uplinks, ammo hives and triage hives suddenly fly out of your inventory and pile emselves up at your feet in some worthless area (like immediately around a fkn supply depot), bro? This idea is less about "fixing the logis" and more about fixing the mindset. Theres a wealth of team support mechanisms with a huge potential, when used properly, to swing the results of a battle in DUST. That being the case, it makes sense that for those who claim to be serious about taking responsibility for that support put their SP where their mouths are and INVEST. In for the inch, in for the mile. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zindorak 1.U.P 736	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:08:00 - [375] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Zindorak wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. No I don't think you understand +1 max active per level is what i think we should get. Im willing to give up a sidearm I"m also a no, last thing we or anybody else needs is better spamming circumstances. And I am not willing to trade the sidearm for them. If the link placement you use is worth a **** you don't need to lay 7 of them at a time. The Am logi bonus right now is bad like Gal and Cal assault. I can't switch suits or i will lose the bonus which is dumb what if we need to AV or something Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1605	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:20:00 - [376] - Quote spam is the fault of the items and mechanics in place for the use of those items. when the suit allows you to carry 4 different versions of the same piece of equipment and then the suit is bonuses only to that equipment then this encourages spam. if a player could not spam as in the case of repair tools or scanners and needles etc then spam is obsolete and we can balance on other issues. as long as a player is allowed to drop 9+ pieces if equipment they will do it. this is not fault of the player. its the fault of ccp for allowing it. if a sniper rifle allows you to shoot from the redline you are going to do it, if a repair tool allows you to repair 2 people your going to do it, if extra slots and loads of cpu/pg allow you to outfit any other suit in the game then you are going to do it as is the case of slayer logis. the problem isn't the player because they are using the tools they are supplied with the emphasis of do whatever you want without limitations. this is the same with droppable equipment. ccp allows us to spam so we spam. that is what is boils down to. the mechanics is at fault because if we couldn't do it then it wouldn't be a problem. All Hail Legion
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4721	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:30:00 - [377] - Quote What is everyone's opinions on the buff to nanite injectors proposed for Delta? The same amount of shield replenished as armor? Sounds freaking awesome. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:44:00 - [378] - Quote I'm holding individuals responsible for their actions, you're applying culpability as responsibility to CCP. I'm able to drive over a child crossing the street in a crosswalk in my truck by virtue of it having been manufactured with a relatively higher frame height. When I do, is my fault for not looking/not caring or is it Fords fault for making a vehicle capable of running someone over? Sections of the map that are glitchable, which people exploit, is their exploitation of that their fault for knowing and exploiting its glitchable aspect or is it CCPs fault for their players exploiting said glitchable aspect? Our suit bonuses, agreed, can be exploited to contribute to spamming. Which is all the more reason to ensure that those people who have access to the bonuses don't have the access solely to exploit those bonuses! A significantly higher barrier to class entry is an extremely good method of screening these, since the SP involved WON'T be immediately recouped by the WP generated exploiting the fit for a possibly significant period of time. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:45:00 - [379] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: What is everyone's opinions on the buff to nanite injectors proposed for Delta? The same amount of shield replenished as armor? Sounds freaking awesome. Has that been posted somewhere as being a part of delta or is that forum ether theory? Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1609	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:20:00 - [380] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I'm holding individuals responsible for their actions, you're applying culpability as responsibility to CCP. I'm able to drive over a child crossing the street in a crosswalk in my truck by virtue of it having been manufactured with a relatively higher frame height. When I do, is my fault for not looking/not caring or is it Fords fault for making a vehicle capable of running someone over? Sections of the map that are glitchable, which people exploit, is their exploitation of that their fault for knowing and exploiting its glitchable aspect or is it CCPs fault for their players exploiting said glitchable aspect? Our suit bonuses, agreed, can be exploited to contribute to spamming. Which is all the more reason to ensure that those people who have access to the bonuses don't have the access solely to exploit those bonuses! A significantly higher barrier to class entry is an extremely good method of screening these, since the SP involved WON'T be immediately recouped by the WP generated exploiting the fit for a possibly significant period of time. if that crossing was a gated level crossing then the mechanic is in place to prevent you from exploiting your car's ability to run over people or in that case run into a train regardless of your personal input into your car. the same could be applied to equipment spam. if ccp prevented it then it won't happen. if a big heavy steel gate is in the way of you running that crossing then you are not running that crossing whether you want to or not. your comparing dropping equipment which is an intended mechanic with glitches and exploits which are not intended mechanics. the intended mechanic is there which allows spam and has been since the beginning of dust. if it was not intended it would be gone but just because its intended doesnt mean its a good mechanic. its a mechanic to be used. you cannot blame anyone for using intended mechanics right or wrong. creating a work around for broken skills and mechanics which make spamming better is not a fix. fixing the broken skills and mechanics causing the issues is the fix. All Hail Legion

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:25:00 - [381] - Quote EDIT: I forgot to quote it, this is about SHAYZ's needle question Regardless of the answer to the question I like the idea, although I'm hesitant to fully endorse it considering its really a stealth buff to scouts, since they do tend to run shield heavy/armor light or full brick. My issue, which begins with my root issue of scouts and their multiple equipment slots, is we'll start having super scout slayer squads where even if one or two of them get dropped their buddies will cloak, revive them and when they pop up w full or almost full shields they'll just re-engage with little to no pullback for a shield regen period. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:35:00 - [382] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I'm holding individuals responsible for their actions, you're applying culpability as responsibility to CCP. I'm able to drive over a child crossing the street in a crosswalk in my truck by virtue of it having been manufactured with a relatively higher frame height. When I do, is my fault for not looking/not caring or is it Fords fault for making a vehicle capable of running someone over? Sections of the map that are glitchable, which people exploit, is their exploitation of that their fault for knowing and exploiting its glitchable aspect or is it CCPs fault for their players exploiting said glitchable aspect? Our suit bonuses, agreed, can be exploited to contribute to spamming. Which is all the more reason to ensure that those people who have access to the bonuses don't have the access solely to exploit those bonuses! A significantly higher barrier to class entry is an extremely good method of screening these, since the SP involved WON'T be immediately recouped by the WP generated exploiting the fit for a possibly significant period of time. if that crossing was a gated level crossing then the mechanic is in place to prevent you from exploiting your car's ability to run over people or in that case run into a train regardless of your personal input into your car. the same could be applied to equipment spam. if ccp prevented it then it won't happen. if a big heavy steel gate is in the way of you running that crossing then you are not running that crossing whether you want to or not. your comparing dropping equipment which is an intended mechanic with glitches and exploits which are not intended mechanics. the intended mechanic is there which allows spam and has been since the beginning of dust. if it was not intended it would be gone but just because its intended doesnt mean its a good mechanic. its a mechanic to be used. you cannot blame anyone for using intended mechanics right or wrong. creating a work around for broken skills and mechanics which make spamming better is not a fix. fixing the broken skills and mechanics causing the issues is the fix. A high SP entry is a great big steel gate across every abusers abilty to exploit the mechanic. If we agree that the mechanic isn't broken, and is actually the intended use BUT that having too much spam is a problem then we need to limit the number of people able to use the mechanic. Abusers don't want to work and earn, they want maximize the reults of their minimal efforts despite any adverse effect on the overall game around them. Any effort to limit the "cheap and easy" mindset from the class is a worthwhile one and with the tools available to use, raising the SP cost of entry, therby minimalizing the entry rewards for a period, will help deter the abusive mindset from a class that when abused affects its surroundings extensively. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1609	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:45:00 - [383] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I'm holding individuals responsible for their actions, you're applying culpability as responsibility to CCP. I'm able to drive over a child crossing the street in a crosswalk in my truck by virtue of it having been manufactured with a relatively higher frame height. When I do, is my fault for not looking/not caring or is it Fords fault for making a vehicle capable of running someone over? Sections of the map that are glitchable, which people exploit, is their exploitation of that their fault for knowing and exploiting its glitchable aspect or is it CCPs fault for their players exploiting said glitchable aspect? Our suit bonuses, agreed, can be exploited to contribute to spamming. Which is all the more reason to ensure that those people who have access to the bonuses don't have the access solely to exploit those bonuses! A significantly higher barrier to class entry is an extremely good method of screening these, since the SP involved WON'T be immediately recouped by the WP generated exploiting the fit for a possibly significant period of time. if that crossing was a gated level crossing then the mechanic is in place to prevent you from exploiting your car's ability to run over people or in that case run into a train regardless of your personal input into your car. the same could be applied to equipment spam. if ccp prevented it then it won't happen. if a big heavy steel gate is in the way of you running that crossing then you are not running that crossing whether you want to or not. your comparing dropping equipment which is an intended mechanic with glitches and exploits which are not intended mechanics. the intended mechanic is there which allows spam and has been since the beginning of dust. if it was not intended it would be gone but just because its intended doesnt mean its a good mechanic. its a mechanic to be used. you cannot blame anyone for using intended mechanics right or wrong. creating a work around for broken skills and mechanics which make spamming better is not a fix. fixing the broken skills and mechanics causing the issues is the fix. A high SP entry is a great big steel gate across every abusers abilty to exploit the mechanic. If we agree that the mechanic isn't broken, and is actually the intended use BUT that having too much spam is a problem then we need to limit the number of people able to use the mechanic. Abusers don't want to work and earn, they want maximize the reults of their minimal efforts despite any adverse effect on the overall game around them. Any effort to limit the "cheap and easy" mindset from the class is a worthwhile one and with the tools available to use, raising the SP cost of entry, therby minimalizing the entry rewards for a period, will help deter the abusive mindset from a class that when abused affects its surroundings extensively. no the sp requirement is a small latch on the gate not the gate itself, that when you are big enough to reach it you can just open the gate and never be bothered by it again. what you want is a plaster to put over the problem instead of a real fix All Hail Legion
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:01:00 - [384] - Quote Better a gate with a latch than no gate whatsoever. Regardless of any limit you put on equipment, whether its carrying limits, number active limits or even individual expiration timers, the abusive will look to find ways to manipulate and the abuse the circumstances. So, instead of changing flipping individual equipment behaviours around a high SP requirement at the very least will dissuade the noobabusers and require that proabusers have to WAIT until they're willing to pay before having access to the class. Does this stop abuse cold, forever? Of course not. Will the abusers just find something else to abuse to generate the SP to earn access? YES. They will not be able to use the Logistics class as readily to be abusive with! Which IS the point! I helps to make and keep the class occupied with those serious about the purpose of the class as opposed to the exploitation of it! Also, as an aside, I appreciate your avoidance regarding the responsibility element of this equation that I tried to exemplify with my truck running over a kid analogy. Don't think I missed that, I can run with your gate/no gate/gate with a latch red herring attempt just fine. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1609	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:24:00 - [385] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Better a gate with a latch than no gate whatsoever. Regardless of any limit you put on equipment, whether its carrying limits, number active limits or even individual expiration timers, the abusive will look to find ways to manipulate and the abuse the circumstances. So, instead of changing flipping individual equipment behaviours around a high SP requirement at the very least will dissuade the noobabusers and require that proabusers have to WAIT until they're willing to pay before having access to the class. Does this stop abuse cold, forever? Of course not. Will the abusers just find something else to abuse to generate the SP to earn access? YES. They will not be able to use the Logistics class as readily to be abusive with! Which IS the point! I helps to make and keep the class occupied with those serious about the purpose of the class as opposed to the exploitation of it! Also, as an aside, I appreciate your avoidance regarding the responsibility element of this equation that I tried to exemplify with my truck running over a kid analogy. Don't think I missed that, I can run with your gate/no gate/gate with a latch red herring attempt just fine. i think you are missing my point. your idea just slows people down getting to a point where they can abuse the, what we think are broken mechanics. once there your fix is void. it does nothing. fixing the broken mechanics instead completely negates the issue of severe spam from anyone. you are trying to creating something to make it harder to abuse something like spamming when the simple thing is just to fix the issue of spamming itself at its source. All Hail Legion
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 22:21:00 - [386] - Quote I'll try it like this, bold is me ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: i think you are missing my point. your idea just slows people down getting to a point where they can abuse the, what we think are broken mechanics. YES. It limits entrance to the class so as to ensure the individual is either serious about pursuing it OR willing to PAY EXTRA (hopefully deterring) as abusers for the use of the class to be abusive. once there your fix is void. it does nothing. fixing the broken mechanics instead completely negates the issue of severe spam from anyone. Any "fix", like any game element, is subject to abuse and manipulation by those who seek to abuse and manipulate. I don't find the mechanic " broken" so much as simply "abusable". There is a difference, there are occasions where large groups of equipments need to be laid out for the intent to be effective. You said you AV. I do too, my AV tool of choice are Proxes, which work best laid as minefields supplemented with REs. On the overhead view, the uninitiated could see one of my minefields and say, " Oh that scrub is just spamming gear". IDGAF what that guy thinks, IGAF about whether an HAV will be able to drive right through or have to stop. you are trying to creating something to make it harder to abuse something like spamming... NO. NO. NO. I'm trying to create something to make it harder to abuse the LOGISTICS class, as a peripheral benefit spam abuse becomes harder too. when the simple thing is just to fix the issue of spamming itself at its source. Okaaay, so lets "fix" the "source" of the abuse: The playerbase. As I said a couple pages back, equipment doesn't spam, PLAYERS do. Shall there be a kick mechanic hotfixed in to remove someone who spams? Spam is a result of PLAYER behaviour. The individual opening the equipment menu and running willy-nilly pitching gear out with every step or piling it. There ARE limits already to this, its called Number Active, as well as that only certain classes carry equipment. Since Logis carry the most equipment so are the most subjected to being abused for use as spammers , maybe we expand that (I am opposed, active limits are fine) to address equipment spam abuse after raising the SP requirement to the class to address the class abuse? (which I obviously endorse) Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2060	Posted - 2014.08.30 23:01:00 - [387] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: What is everyone's opinions on the buff to nanite injectors proposed for Delta? The same amount of shield replenished as armor? Sounds freaking awesome. Has that been posted somewhere as being a part of delta or is that forum ether theory? Early "Narrative" option for Delta. And yes, very awesome indeed. Camping people on the ground was too easy. All the more trolltastic if you timed your fire to kill the hero with the needle as well. I was guilty of that. I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 23:10:00 - [388] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: What is everyone's opinions on the buff to nanite injectors proposed for Delta? The same amount of shield replenished as armor? Sounds freaking awesome. Has that been posted somewhere as being a part of delta or is that forum ether theory? Early "Narrative" option for Delta. And yes, very awesome indeed. Camping people on the ground was too easy. All the more trolltastic if you timed your fire to kill the hero with the needle as well. I was guilty of that. TYVM, had not seen that posted up there Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3945	Posted - 2014.08.31 03:28:00 - [389] - Quote I gotta go with Adam of Eve here, Not that operators sentiment is wrong, but I really don't think the proposal will have the desired effect. Like i said earlier, I think what you will end up doing is adding a barrier to new players who night want to play logistics without discouraging spammers. THe key question is this: What about unlocking logi suits at level 5 prevents someone from simply skilling to level 3 in uplinks. making two scout fits with different combinations of links, and then simply dropping 5-6 uplinks before swapping out to their go-to brick tanked layer scout fit? (The correct answer is nothing) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 222	Posted - 2014.08.31 06:59:00 - [390] - Quote Zindorak wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Zindorak wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. No I don't think you understand +1 max active per level is what i think we should get. Im willing to give up a sidearm I"m also a no, last thing we or anybody else needs is better spamming circumstances. And I am not willing to trade the sidearm for them. If the link placement you use is worth a **** you don't need to lay 7 of them at a time. The Am logi bonus right now is bad like Gal and Cal assault. I can't switch suits or i will lose the bonus which is dumb what if we need to AV or something This is the one thing that kind of annoys me when i die in my Amarr logi suit. Does the bonus to nanohives work the same way for Cal logis, I cant actually remember anyone actually complaining about it. Then again i barely see any Cal logis Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training



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