Personally I think there is no need to change anything.

I've been a Min Logi since 1.2 and was my first role. I play as such for 70% of squad games.

I can fit great equipment, decent health (with good shields too) and a respectable weapon. And I'm certainly not helpless.

With a good team who understands your limitations and appreciates the support we give we don't need to be directly in the line of fire, so weapons and health are not a priority, especially since we have such an impact on a game by equipment - which doesn't have to be used directly.

I don't see how we can need any more

Equipment on the other hand does need revisiting. And even then I'd say only the injector is in dire need of adjustment.
For starters take it off the medic starter fits. Its not a medic if it can't ensure its team is combat effective. Give them rep tools instead.
Then tier the WP for better needles. Cus most of the playerbase is selfish and want WP so would rather use a rusty needle and rep tool.
After that think about only awarding WP to the user after a successful revive. Its not a revive if you dive out of cover to Rambo into fire and try picking up a teammate for +60 wp (and award +100 to the enemy, but people forget that part -_- )

I'm going to try to say this in the nicest way possible...
A single logistics should require a whole team to keep them alive?
Requiring even a squad is asking too much.

If everyone is guarding the logi,who then would take the objectives?

Oh the previous poster absolutely brings up s brilliant point. Logis do not have the speed to support a push of assaults. This is a massive problem given their low survivability under fire. A logi caught alone is likely helpless against opportunistic killers.

They need to be as fast as a assault team of the same race. I would posit that making a logi 10-15% faster than an assault so they can respond faster to needed support actions and can dive for cover when under direct fire.

In my experience in coordinated squad vs coordinated squad, whoever loses the logi first gets shredded.

I'd like to see the reintroduction of the shield rep tool. I was thinking maybe it could work like the "chain heal" in WoW. It hits the main target for 100%, the most damaged person in range of the first target by 50% and the next most damaged person in range of the second person by 25% of the original heal. Alternatively it could work as an AoE heal. Both of those may be bad ideas (there could be major flaws I haven't considered) and perhaps just having shield remote repair use the same mechanics as remote armor repair is the way to go. I mentioned those ideas because it would be cool if there were unique behaviors for shield vs. armor repair. WPs would have to be different though (perhaps scaled to the amount healed). These ideas may not even be hotfixable though. Getting more parity between shields and armor is a good thing.

I'd like to see the bonuses change for remote reps. I'd like to see Amarr/Gallente get bonuses to armor repair and Minmatar/Caldari get bonuses to shield repair. Perhaps Amarr/Caldari get a bonus to repair amount and Minmatar/Gallente get a repair range bonus to their respective shield/armor rep tools (or flip them around in a different combination). These bonuses would be in addition to the existing bonuses. Of course that leaves the Minmatar short a bonus, so we'd have to come up with an additional one for them. You could go with the old hacking bonus, but that role makes more sense on the scout (IMO). Perhaps the injectors on Minmatar Logi suits could also restore a percent of shields too? Perhaps 10%/level?

I'm just brainstorming/spitballing. Logistics would be much more interesting if we had shields and armor repair, and each race had a different approach to it.

As someone who occasionally runs Amarr Logi, I'm pretty indifferent to the sidearm question. I can appreciate both perspectives, and there is a logic to making all suits within a given class have more symmetry with less exceptions. I can also see how a suit bonused for uplinks should be more combat oriented. If we went in the direction I proposed of shields/armor reps, the Amarr Logi sidearm (snowflake argument) becomes much less compelling though.

Personally I think there is no need to change anything.

I've been a Min Logi since 1.2 and was my first role. I play as such for 70% of squad games.

I can fit great equipment, decent health (with good shields too) and a respectable weapon. And I'm certainly not helpless.

With a good team who understands your limitations and appreciates the support we give we don't need to be directly in the line of fire, so weapons and health are not a priority, especially since we have such an impact on a game by equipment - which doesn't have to be used directly.

I don't see how we can need any more

Equipment on the other hand does need revisiting. And even then I'd say only the injector is in dire need of adjustment.
For starters take it off the medic starter fits. Its not a medic if it can't ensure its team is combat effective. Give them rep tools instead.
Then tier the WP for better needles. Cus most of the playerbase is selfish and want WP so would rather use a rusty needle and rep tool.
After that think about only awarding WP to the user after a successful revive. Its not a revive if you dive out of cover to Rambo into fire and try picking up a teammate for +60 wp (and award +100 to the enemy, but people forget that part -_- )

Minmatar prototype and I play the MEDIC role.

I like where this logi is right now, I don't think it needs a buff or a nerf. I would appreciate not changing the bonuses as I specialized in Minmatar to be a medic.

Although I manage, it is hard to stay ISK positive and I would like a slight buff on the ISK payout for logis.

Seems like I don't see many Galente or Caldari logis, maybe they need a little buff.

Logistics suits:
30 more eHP than a scout
Slower than heavier tanked mediums
Bigger hitbox despite having less eHP
Doesn't have the best regen despite having less eHP
Doesn't have the best eHP despite its speed.
When run as a support unit it costs easily 2x as much with 1/2 the survival


Since logistics has more in common with scouts (ewar,equipment) logistics should be made to mimic them.

-Keep the low eHP but in exchange give speed/stamina,regen amount and speed,and a smaller hitbox.
This way it establishes a theme,support is fast and evasive,while killing is strong and durable.

-Cut equipment costs by 50% minimal



Based on personal experience,i would prefer to be harder to hit with better regen than have higher eHP.
eHP just makes it too tempting to fight instead of support.

While you're looking at the logistics suits....
Fix the Min logis stats.

It has more armor than shields and it's supposed to be a shield based race.
It has 90 shields and 150 armor.

Input and feedback is being sought regarding the state of support play within Dust, and how to improve the experience and effectiveness.

When responding to this thread please note your primary role / primary context for use of each item being commented on so that proper context can be applied.

Cheers,
Cross

More importantly, there would be a huge fight (already starting a little) about who gets what bonus. LetGÇÖs just be totally honest, everyone wants the rep tool bonus. So, instead of having some massive 17 page flame war about why the Gallente should get it over the Amarr, or how they should both get it and take it away from the Minmatar, just give the damn bonus to everyone!

This link has my proposal. Basically, every logi suit gets a small bonus to every type of equipment, while keeping its current primary bonus. That way we have an incentive to use a logi suit instead of a scout suit. My rep tool may not work as well as it would on a minmatar logi, but at least itGÇÖs measurably better than on some FOTM chaser in a scout suit. If people think this homogenizes the logi suits too much, I'm certainly not against buffing the primary bonus a little more to make up for it. )

Advance M/1 logi Suit with six kin rep tool =69,285
Advance M/1 Logi Suit with BDR8 rep tool =58365 (trying to cut cost with adv repair tool)

Advance M/1 Assaut Suit complex dmg mod =30,945
Advance A/1 Heavy Suit complex dmg mod =37,770

This is a problem!!!

Repair Tools
I have read some of the proposals for rep tool healing the logi's as a way to make up for less ehp. I agree but it needs to be regulated to only when the repair tool is out and actively being used on other team mates. Not when your solo or the target is at full health. It also does not need to be the full amount of the repair tool maybe 50%.

Amount of armor repaired needs to be put back to original amounts before the nerf. That way every logi can out heal a frontline suit with militia weapon and damage mod.

One last thought about all classes of suits. A militia or basic suit should not be able to use a proto level anything.

You dumbass, you cut costs on the weapon, NOT on the repair tool.

And second the repair tool shouldn't repair the repper as it will encourage ONLY armor tanking, active repping though should at least give a somewhat blanket resistance to damage for armor and shields, otherwise cal logis get boned and will discourage diverse fits.

Name calling is NOT required.

I know that you use a lower tier weapon to cut cost, I use my exile on most of my fits. When I want to save isk.
I was showing all Advance tier items for comparison to the all advance tier Assault and Heavy Suits with 1 complex damage mod.

I will agree that a Cal logi will be at a large disadvantage. I agree that rep tools would encourage armor tanking, so I am willing to go with a blanket resistance to damage. I used the armor repair because the main function of the repair tool is to repair armor and all suits have armor even cal logi's not much but some.

Ok, none said it yet, I m surprised. It looks like I have to say it, dont blame me for proposing it.

Only sidearm logis!

"Oh no what an idiot""gtfo""blablabla die blabla"

But think about it...
The main problem is logi's ability to survive. That is why you want to buff logis hp or their regen/speed.

But you are afraid of slayer logis, you are afraid the forum will cry for a nerf.
So we have to give logis a good survivability but to we have decrease their firepower.

Giving logis only sidearms will let you buff them (Ehp or regen stats) and avoid the problem of slayer logis at the same time.

Is it that stupid? It is not that logis will be completely useless in combat. Having more survivability would let them do their job (support) and still be effective in gunfights (with more defence and less offence) and dont forget that sidearms can be deadly as other weapons!

Bare in mind I am a Min logi and for my lows I run 2 complex reppers, and whatever plates will fit after I fill my highs ( 2 comp presicion, 2 comp shield ext) and equipment slots (all proto, injector, ish hive, flux links, and either the republic boundless or six kin repair tool) so the feedback repair from the repair tool would benefit me greatly (for a two target repair tool would you get double feedback?) because I could drop a repper and add a plate, but I don't want any changes made to this game that would make any particular build the "only" build. That is the reason for the resistance instead of the reps.

P.S. Sorry about the dumbass comment, I meant it more playfully as opposed to insulting...

ya dumbass

Ok, none said it yet, I m surprised. It looks like I have to say it, dont blame me for proposing it.

Only sidearm logis!

"Oh no what an idiot""gtfo""blablabla die blabla"

But think about it...
The main problem is logi's ability to survive. That is why you want to buff logis hp or their regen/speed.

But you are afraid of slayer logis, you are afraid the forum will cry for a nerf.
So we have to give logis a good survivability but to we have decrease their firepower.

Giving logis only sidearms will let you buff them (Ehp or regen stats) and avoid the problem of slayer logis at the same time.

Is it that stupid? It is not that logis will be completely useless in combat. Having more survivability would let them do their job (support) and still be effective in gunfights (with more defence and less offence) and dont forget that sidearms can be deadly as other weapons!

+1 Pokey
Very good analyses of the current situation and side arm logis are not the answer.

Not unless ya make Mass Drivers sidearms. But I'd guess pagl1u M is a scout and doesn't like logis being able to fight back with the only weapon truly effective against them.