Nothing.

There is no such thing as a useful noncombatant on the battlefield. Logistics are a PRIME reason why I say you cannot balance in DUST the way you do in EVE. And those ships in EVE are fragile as all hell. there is no precedent for an obnoxiously tanky, non-shooting walking target that reps people and spams hives.

Never mind that the only way to make the defenses viable would be to make it able to tank past an HMG Heavy's overheat. Otehrwise you just get chopped to chutney anyway.

This is why it would also have speed.
It would survive via defense,not offense.
It would dodge and weave,if need be,run away.

And would add another unique feature to an already unique game.

And it wouldn't become FOTM,because only killing suits become FOTM.
You'ld see who the real logibros are,because most would switch to it.

Ok then,what would you suggest as a fair trade for all offensive ability?

Logistics Mk.0

Injectors:
WP as incentive is nice,but if a MLT frame can walk up and tap O to negate your Pro needle then the problem still remains.
Doesn't really help shield tankers.
-Need a needle priority system that uses the HIGHEST level needle when reviving.
-Possibly reduce the amount of armor refilled and give a comperable amount of shields instead.

Rep tool:
Neon "kill me" sign.
Can't outrep a MLT weapon with a Pro rep tool.
Places logistics firmly on the frontlines of combat with its insanely short reach.
Provides 0 incentive other than WP farming.
Allies don't know they're being repaired.
Doesn't really help shield tankers.
-Remove the rep tool line to aid in logistics survival,leave the lock on boxes.
-Give damage resistance while using (something like 65% to all damage)
-Increase range by dramatic amounts for the logistics class.
-Return the rep tool glow,but have it work like hit detection so an ally can see which side they are being repaired from
-Negate shield recharge delays while used on allies,or recharge 25% of shields per hp/s restored. (eg sixkin 88 hp/s so 25% of 88) possibly reduce armor repair rate to compensate. Presto a rep tool that helps shield and armor.

Hives - Any-
Too easily destroyed by any stray explosions.
Low carrying capacity.
Low refilling amounts. (nanites)
Annoying when a MLT frame stands on top throwing grenades at no one to use them faster.
-Explosive resistance increase so it actually takes effort to destroy them.
-+1 carried per level logistics bonus
-Increased nanites -or- burst variants that refill faster but have lower nanites (think compact nanohives).
-Disable grenades being refilled

Scanners:
Dat cooldown.
-Nuff' said

Uplinks:
Actually alright

R.E.s:
The description says volitile chemicals yet i see scouts throw them from hights taller than their own suit,and sling them as if they are throwing frisbees.
Are considered equipment yet can be refilled at nanohives.
-Have them explode killing only the thrower if dropped from too high a height or slung with too much momentum
-Disable refilling from hives

Logistics suits:
30 more eHP than a scout
Slower than heavier tanked mediums
Bigger hitbox despite having less eHP
Doesn't have the best regen despite having less eHP
Doesn't have the best eHP despite its speed.
When run as a support unit it costs easily 2x as much with 1/2 the survival


Since logistics has more in common with scouts (ewar,equipment) logistics should be made to mimic them.

-Keep the low eHP but in exchange give speed/stamina,regen amount and speed,and a smaller hitbox.
This way it establishes a theme,support is fast and evasive,while killing is strong and durable.

-Cut equipment costs by 50% minimal



Based on personal experience,i would prefer to be harder to hit with better regen than have higher eHP.
eHP just makes it too tempting to fight instead of support.

I ran LOGI for 2+ years. I feal i have to stick with the 'CORE REP' to do any fun progressive repping. If you just upped the rep rate and made them prioritize on squad mates(if the coding doesent kill the game). Allso, dont go with the longest range, like maybe have the range from the standard rep on something like a core, that would make them working just fine i think. I allso agree they need a slight EHP bonus and speed but in addition If you guys could add modules that extends the range of the rep tool on cost of a tank fit that would be savvy.
If you re balance to make them give less damage then the other classes you can easily evade the risk of combat logi.
Maybe boost the passive scan range so they can do some actual logistics too, but you guys tell me if im wrong

I ran LOGI for 2+ years. I feal i have to stick with the 'CORE REP' to do any fun progressive repping. If you just upped the rep rate and made them prioritize on squad mates(if the coding doesent kill the game). Allso, dont go with the longest range, like maybe have the range from the standard rep on something like a core, that would make them working just fine i think. I allso agree they need a slight EHP bonus and speed but in addition If you guys could add modules that extends the range of the rep tool on cost of a tank fit that would be savvy.
If you re balance to make them give less damage then the other classes you can easily evade the risk of combat logi.
Maybe boost the passive scan range so they can do some actual logistics too, but you guys tell me if im wrong

We generally are already doing less damage than most of the other classes by virtue of those classes being bonused for damage one way or another. All this neutering of the combat efficiency of a suit whose role largely puts it in the thick of combat is extremely detrimental to the class overall. I'm not necessarily there to fight but at any point need to be capable of fighting.

I propose a new tier of War Point generation:

+15-40wp for Logi Guarding.

Basically, using the existing Cocentric Circles data add the above modifier to the reward total generated by any teammate who successfully makes a kill while within the Cocentric Circle range of any friendly Logi. The closer they are to said Logi, the higher the WP reward.

Part of the major issue in running Logistics outside of a Corp or Friend squad is that the suit and role is made to require what Meee One called an "escort". We need to be protected. Not just by our heavies, but by everyone. And we rarely, actively, are. So, incentivise that. Add a WP reward to defending the Logi.

This will not only encourage randomblues to actively protect that sillybluebannana BUT will also help mitigate some of this WarPoint/Leaderboard envy that, while not spoken of directly often, infuses most arguements against Logi performance/reward buffs.



4 frikin months and we can't get any meaningful direct buffs. Maybe we can get something for our teammates instead.

I like where this is headed. There was a bonus just applied to being near a letter, slapping it on a logi is awesome. You are right that it adds incentive to protect the logi and give other players the boost that they may feel they are missing from our reps/nanos/spawns etc. .... whatever it takes to make my logi a surviving and valuable resource.

Basically, using the existing Cocentric Circles data add the above modifier to the reward total generated by any teammate who successfully makes a kill while within the Cocentric Circle range of any friendly Logi. The closer they are to said Logi, the higher the WP reward.

Because what Dust needs most is higher rewards for Heavy+Logi Blobs.

Because what Dust needs most is to further incentivize Heavy+Logi Blob gameplay.

In competitive play, teamwork is a given. Imbalance is imbalance, and ideas which reinforce imbalance are less than good ideas.

We generally are already doing less damage than most of the other classes by virtue of those classes being bonused for damage one way or another. All this neutering of the combat efficiency of a suit whose role largely puts it in the thick of combat is extremely detrimental to the class overall. I'm not necessarily there to fight but at any point need to be capable of fighting.

The Scout class is taking their licks; EZ Mode remains attached to the end of your rep gun.

Basically, using the existing Cocentric Circles data add the above modifier to the reward total generated by any teammate who successfully makes a kill while within the Cocentric Circle range of any friendly Logi. The closer they are to said Logi, the higher the WP reward.

I've skimmed over the document so far and I agree with most of it. What I'd like to talk about are Proximity Explosives. In their current state, they are a very resources intensive deployable; unlike Hives and Links which drop and do their thing, the PEs need to have a large number (usually at least six) to be effective and require a reasonably long time deployed for their value to be reward - and often are not at all.

With the bandwidth system implemented I think it is reasonable to consider some fairly hefty alterations to their operation, to the following effect:
- Change max active to be 2/3/4 through the tiers
{{This change alongside the damage alteration allows a Logi to carry them and deploy them without having to spend several minutes organising a large minefield.}}
- Change max carried to be 4/5/6 through the tiers
{{This change is to assist with the persistent role of deployed equipment. May need to be higher carried, uncertain.}}
- Change bandwidth usage to 4 Mbit/sec
{{This change is to prevent spam and over saturation from rendering ground vehicles obsolete.}}
- Change damage to 800/1000/1200
{{This, along with the bandwidth and active/carried changes should allow a Logi to mine an area reasonably effectively without needing to resort to carrying multiple sets persistently. Numbers may need adjusting: 4 PRO would not quite destroy an unfitted Soma (would have 40HP left, though this is not factoring in the potential Demolitions skill change or the MinLogi change), but I'd rather low ball the numbers at first.}}

Essentially, the idea is to have PEs follow the ideal that deployable equipment be a constant activity and one that can move with the squad. The reduction to active/increase in power should see less need for large fields of PEs and the Bandwidth cost would prevent them from being 'fired and forgotten' by other frames: four PEs under this change would be the total deployable Mbit/sec for PRO Assaults and Commandos and more than a Scout could deploy.

Anyway...thoughts?

I like, maybe even change the PE further instead of placing only 1 mine for 800-1200 damage maybe have one drop spread out 3 mines totaling the 800-1200 damage to get better coverage for same damage profile. being able to cover the bridge with 3 mines instead of using 6.