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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1192
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Posted - 2014.11.15 06:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
formerly gal assault and light gal logi
cal and min logi need a shield repair tool.
gal and amarr need an armor repair tool.
both would be primary equipment and be altered by the logis primary bonuses. where secondary bonuses would apply to secondary equipment such as nanohives, uplinks, scanners, and remotes.
this is how eve operates and therefore is how dust should operate.
every racial logi should get a bonus to their races preferred repair tool.
having an armor tool on a minmatar suit is absolute nonsense.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1198
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Posted - 2014.11.15 23:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote:While I am a big fan of bring DUST and EVE closer in conceptual design... it's a stupid idea for an infantry unit to have no ability to shoot stuff in the face. Almost every player will, at some point, have to run around on foot.
If such a player chooses a logi suit, I'm sure they would appreciate being able to shoot something in the face. I mean, look at Team Fortress 2 (which I haven't actually played), where the medic has some pretty amazeballs ability (so I've heard, at least), and still has a freakin' gun.
Even Blizzard's new FPS, with it's super-supporty-medic-class, still gives said class a freakin' gun.
TL;DR: don't replace the Logi's gun with a repair tool. It's stupid and a fail idea.
Addendum: racial repair tools is an admittedly cool idea. Still, no likes for you.
who suggested taking their gun away?
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1228
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Posted - 2014.11.19 15:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
there need to be at least 4 main repair tools.
1 caldari shield tool
1 minmatar shield tool
1gallente armor tool
1 amarr armor tool
+ variants.
the first 2 bonuses on a logi ship are always to remote repairers.
logis need to reflect this.
the second 2 bonuses would be secondary equipment buffs or survivability since not every race has a 2 equipment.
actually only caldari does. nanos-injectors.
gal have scanners.
amarr have the uplinks.and min have explosives. (well 2 explosives, but both explosives)
so either give the other 3 logis 3 new pieces of equipment or a small self sufficent tank bonus to counter nanohives on a cal.
examples could be radar-comms jammers for gal?
webifier mines/tools for minmatar since theyre speed kings?
not sure for amarr.
anyway you get 2 bonuses to repair tools.
then bonuses to secondary equipment or health.
and then a blanket rolebonus for all 4.
JUST LIKE EVE.
Meee One wrote:Hey cross,i has a question.  Is it possible to just straight up swap assaults and logistics speed and stamina values? My reasoning: -eHP (160 greater than logistics) Sent Assault Logis Scout (almost above logistics) -speed (faster than logistics) Scout Assault Logis Sent As plates and heavies show,more eHP = less speed and stamina. Assaults however have 400+ eHP and 0 speed loss. While logistics has 240-300 eHP and speed loss. It seems as if the assault speed penalty was slid over to logistics,while what should be logistics speed and stamina values were given to assaults. It would end like: -eHP(assaults have higher eHP,logistics has lower) Sent Assault Logis Scout -speed (logistics has better speed,assaults have lower) Scout Logistics Assault Sent This would be balanced,speed for eHP. Instead of assaults getting everything and logistics getting the shaft (as it does currently).  After all,'slayer' logis were only 'slayers' because their ability to tank high eHP,not because they were fast. And with the 160 extra eHP,combined with logistics (stolen) slots that has become impossible.
pretty sure a heavy assault cruiser is faster generally than the logistics ships.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1276
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Posted - 2014.11.24 01:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Meee One wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Meee One wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Meee One wrote:I will admit triage hives seemed to have too many clusters... But having Pro level hive with less clusters than even a compact? Don't grenades take 12-24 clusters to refill? So,with this reduction i could refill 8 grenades,woo.  And hybrids are bad enough as is,yet you want them to refill less? This seems like a good idea increasing carried amounts,but you're forgetting something. Logis are supposed to be equipment masters,and unless the equipment +carried is logistics exclusive imma say no. And logistics would require a class wide bonus to cluster amount to not completely destroy nanos effectiveness. Um The whole point here is to make it so that you can drop more equipment with less effectiveness per drop. This lets you use equipment more often while reducing the overall duration of equipment as to discourage spam. You'll be able to drop ammo for your team in 6 different places instead of just 3, or place uplinks in 12 different places instead of 3. However, equipment is still limited to 2 down at a time meaning that you can't just drop a hive (or 5) in an area and expect them to be there when you get back. The whole point is that you must constantly have this equipment on the suit for it to continue to be effective rather than dropping a **** ton of uplinks with 20 spawns on them each that will last forever. In combination with the new bandwidth proposal, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for people to spam equipment while still allowing dedicated logistics players to use tons of equipment. If that's not an insane amount of WIN-WIN to you then you have to be crazy or maybe you don't understand this proposal.
(1)Any positive change to equipment should be given through logistics exclusive bonuses. Any negative change to equipment should be negated by logistics exclusive bonuses.
(2)One main problem with logistics survivability is that no one sees them as valuable. But if assaults and scouts could only carry 2 hives while logistics can carry 6-7,it would add value. And logistics would be seen as a long-term winning asset worth protection. -snip- I'll be away for a few days after i post this,but i'll never change my view. Logistics should benefit exclusively,and other classes should benefit through logistics. @Meee 1) Do you not see that the BW thing is a logistics bonus? Its just tied to the suit, not the skill, which may not be the better option but it's still logi-exclusive: +50-100% more EQ per tier (depending on the comparison suit) 2) ADV scouts, with the BW proposal, will only be able to deploy 2 hives. Proto can use 3. So.... not sure what you are getting at there. @Shayz: I'm still not really coming around to the uplinks with only 5 spawns but you can carry a crapton of them thing. Instead of 5 spawns and carry 8, why not 10 spawns and you carry 4? Obviously the quantum uplinks with 25 spawns or whatever never get used, but why not a middle ground? I think it's even less helpful with the BW mechanic. Placing fallback positions will be a major pain if I can only put out like 4 uplinks with 5 spawns each at a time. 1) I was talking about the equipment changes (increased carry amount) applying to all suits. Why run a Cal logi (with even less effective bonuses because of this change after all,less clusters = lower bonus given) and die easier,when you can sacrifice a few eq slots and live longer as an assault? Have you read the BW thread? Players are willing to have only a single uplink as a sent,simply because they'll live longer. The last thing we need is for assaults to compete with logistics in equipment,seeing as CCP favors them,logistics would lose. 2) Another inherent flaw with Dust as a whole is the thought process that 'logistics should need a squad',yet assaults,scouts and even heavies were buffed to levels where they don't.
This made logistics an unnecessary burden to it's squad mates.
Logis need an 'escort' to be effective while assaults don't.This effectively reduces the whole teams fighting potential by 1 for every logi,totaling 2 counting the logi themselves. Consider that,each logistics because 'it has to have a squad' costs their team 2 fighters (themselves and their escort,if you can find one). Plus,equipment was nerfed. Other suits can use equipment to the same effect as 2/3rds of all logistics (seeing as logistics don't have bonuses to all equipment). And you have a pretty deadweight suit. If carried amounts is increased across the board instead of being logistics exclusive,it becomes yet another reason not to use logistics. Other classes are too autonomous,and this would be another way for them to stay that way. Logistics can stop being a burden however,just make them masters of equipment (like they are supposed to be anyway),since suit buffs will always be subpar to what it actually needs. Tl;dr Any + carried should be logistics exclusive. It's what they're designed for.
do you play eve? logis are not combat ships.
they are support ships.
remote armor repairers are highslot items.
so the rep tool in eve would be a highslot item. and you sacrifice weapons to fit healers.
logi ships only have half of their highslots available for weapons. and no one fits them with guns anyway cause theyre useless offensively.
your job is not to fight or be self sufficient.
your job is to keep the fighting units alive as a part of a group.
logis should need an escort and they arent meant to be autonomous.
if they were meant to be autonomous they wouldnt be built around giving other suits aid.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1296
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Posted - 2014.12.05 23:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mister Goo wrote:Now that they have a way to change colors can we please change the logi color scheme and loose the bright yellow? If the enemy needs to know who the logi is let him look for the repair tool streams.
i agree i hate the coloring. most of the suits need to be revisited anyway.
the color progressions across standards/assaults makes no sense either.
logi are ugly so they should get a new paintjob across the board too that darkens and looks more ba as it goes from basic to proto.
meaning advanced skins that fall between both proto and basic.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1297
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Posted - 2014.12.09 14:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
a non combat logi is fine. but it cant be that powerful. it still needs to be killable in order to take out squads. otherwise 5 super logis on 1 sentinel would be literally unkillable by a whole team. meeones idea is way to much.
they should keep the side arm though. but make it like pistols only. no smgs and stuff.
syphon filter splits weapons in 3 categorys.
your main weapon, light weapons in this case.
and smgs go into an auxillary category.
then sidearms are the same.
itd be like a sidearm/smallweapons/light weapons/heavy weapons in dust. good for scouts and logis.
anyway. logis will never be correct until all the repair tools are in the game and properly distributed.
there needs to be the shield repair tool and the armor tool needs to go to gal and amarr as ive already said on previous occasions.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1303
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Posted - 2014.12.11 07:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:a non combat logi is fine. but it cant be that powerful. it still needs to be killable in order to take out squads. otherwise 5 super logis on 1 sentinel would be literally unkillable by a whole team. meeones idea is way to much.
they should keep the side arm though. but make it like pistols only. no smgs and stuff.
syphon filter splits weapons in 3 categorys.
your main weapon, light weapons in this case.
and smgs go into an auxillary category.
then sidearms are the same.
itd be like a sidearm/smallweapons/light weapons/heavy weapons in dust. good for scouts and logis.
anyway. logis will never be correct until all the repair tools are in the game and properly distributed.
there needs to be the shield repair tool and the armor tool needs to go to gal and amarr as ive already said on previous occasions.
Ok then,what would you suggest as a fair trade for all offensive ability?
i like your idea. just scaled down abit so the logis arent invincible.
just saying that having 1500hp with scout reps and speed is excessive.
you can buff the logis speed a bit since theyre faster than assaults base stats in eve online.
and you can alter some other stuff. but it doesnt need to be that far. a logi should need to reply on his team for protection. he cant be so strong that he can just walk around oblivious to everything happening and reap points off people.
he needs to be just as killable as everyone else. it doesnt exclude a buff to help them if they give up the ability to fight.
in eve rep tools would be the weapon slot so it makes sense here.
rep tool, scrambler pistol for emergencys or no sidearm like your saying.
base stat speed buff.
bonuses to racial equipment and the racial repairer and then a bonus to racial tank.
seems fair to me.
any logi changes need to include the shield repair tool and the armor tool being given to amarr and gal as ive said previously.
it comes down to whether you want that to count as a weapon slot. think repair tool of battlefield able to hurt vehicles and kill at close range. or keep it as equipment and in your case remove their weapons altogether.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1313
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:ishtellian wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:ishtellian wrote:I think all logis should have like a 3% bonus to all equipment use excluding their racial equipment, but than with their racial equipment they get a 5% - 10% bonus per level, this means that specializing will be obviously better but you would still be fairly useful using a scanner with a Amarr logi suit.
I think Logis should have a racial defence buff also, alongside a buff to armor regen, Gallente would get a very nice buff to armor regen and maybe even a % bonus per level, Caldari could get a recharge delay reduction or maybe HP increase, Amar could get a HP increase or a maybe even a damage resist bonus, Minmitar could maybe get a faster and more agile suit or shield recharge rate. These could help make Logis able to keep themselves alive without directly increasing their EHP.
I dont think even with 5x Complex reps should a suit be able to comepletely tank anyone weapon, but combined with strafing and avoiding damage the suit should have a highly noticeable bonus to its survivability.
Ive only read the first few page of comments so sorry if I repeat information. I've offered a couple variations of that in the past and the big concern is that we might homogenize the racial logis a little too much. I like the idea in concept, however, you might be able to find some similar options equally attractive: 1) Give all logis a bonus to repping, just not the same bonus. You could vary it by range or rep intensity; you would need to then create something like a bonus to RE / PE for the Min Logi. 2) Tie different bonuses on cross racial themes. Cal gets hive bonus and a scanner bonus, Amarr gets uplink bonus and rep bonus, Gal gets scans and uplinks, and Min gets uplinks and reps. Basically retain the current racial bonus but add a cross-racial secondary bonus. The key is to give a different or perhaps lesser bonus on the secondary...example Cal scanner would bonus to range not precision, Min uplinks would give additional spawns not reduce spawn time, etc. This also gives each logi both an active and passive equipment type they they are focused on. I like this but if you play Eve at all, doing this kinda kills possible Pirate faction suits in the future, for example the worm is a pirate faction ship from Guristas its caldari bonus is a bonus to shield resist and its gallente bonus is a bonus to missile damage, its a caldari hull using drones heavily and missiles. But I do like the idea of all logis having their own bonus to repping since reps imo should be one of the main jobs, keeping the other guys alive. Maybe Minmatar could get one bonus rep target per suit level, +1 at STD, +2 at ADV, and +3 at PRO, kinda because lore wise, minmitar have huge numbers. Gallente could get bonus to rep strength, they dont need a range icnrease because Gall is usually upclose melting face ( Plasma Thrower please ) Caldari could get a range increase because their generally longer range than the other races. Amarr could give their rep target like 2-5% bonus resist per suit level, because amarr ships have resist bonus in Eve ( not all of them but alot compared to other races ) I do like the active/passive equipment focus for each suit tho. I am passably familiar with Eve.  I fly with Agony Unleashed, come visit us in Catch.
give ccp ratatti your code and teach him to play, guy thinks dropsuits shouldnt be balanced by eve ships. smh
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
1329
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Posted - 2015.03.26 00:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:So, if the Logis get a small HP buff, swap speeds with the Assault frames, and attain better equipment bonuses; will people come back yelling about Slayer Logis? Assaults, Heavies, and Scouts will still be better slayers, imo.
How does everyone feel about forcing equipment slots to be filled to make a fit valid? This is the direction Rattati took with the Madruger and Gunlogi, by forcing them to have small turrets. Could help ward off any die hard slayer logi QQ.
i dont mind forcing an equipment fit, the only reason anyone ever wanted to do a slayer fit on a caldari logi in the first place was because it was the only suit that could do a proper shield tank with its 4 lows and regulator bonus and that dream of playing a passive shield rep suit is looooong gone.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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