You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

Run free fits for fun until you can pretend that you're an athlete again.

Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

Cause we all know balance is months and months away... Iike it always has been for dust.

When it comes to corps... If you want to be competitive in PC you can't run terrible builds just cause you're a special snowflake. Most corps would probably tell him "Exmaple... You're a beast tanker. And when tanks become viable again next February we would love to run you again, but until then we need another assault on the field."

Once we've reached some semblance of balance, respecs won't be necessary. But the people on this forum are dellusional if they think we are balanced now or will be balanced by the end of the year.

FOTM is a symptom of bad balance, not of the ability to respec.

Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

Hmm, but if it was properly balanced and fair, then why would it get a nerf or buff?

To be fair, plasma cannon was always bad.

Laser nerf was pretty much just the viziam, otherwise the guns major change was just the iron sights. Which DID make it, in effect, a nerf...but technically it isnt. (and anyways, they are adding the red dot sight back to lasers which will bring back the melting of faces)

I dunno, my HMG was nerfed into a shorter range then a shotgun with worse dispersion than an SMG...my forge gun was never correctly registering direct and splash radius hits for months, strafe speed was increased but they still left me fat and slow to turn... yet i still had fun.

maybe I'm just a rare breed that enjoys the game i play, even through the rough patches.

Hmm, but if it was properly balanced and fair, then why would it get a nerf or buff?

To be fair, plasma cannon was always bad.

Laser nerf was pretty much just the viziam, otherwise the guns major change was just the iron sights. Which DID make it, in effect, a nerf...but technically it isnt. (and anyways, they are adding the red dot sight back to lasers which will bring back the melting of faces)

I dunno, my HMG was nerfed into a shorter range then a shotgun with worse dispersion than an SMG...my forge gun was never correctly registering direct and splash radius hits for months, strafe speed was increased but they still left me fat and slow to turn... yet i still had fun.

maybe I'm just a rare breed that enjoys the game i play, even through the rough patches.

Once we've reached some semblance of balance, respecs won't be necessary. But the people on this forum are dellusional if they think we are balanced now or will be balanced by the end of the year.

FOTM is a symptom of bad balance, not of the ability to respec.

I humbly disagree.

FOTM is a symptom of both bad balance and respecs, imo.

Bad balance is the drug.

Respecs are the drug dealers.

Probably the same reason why even after my optional respec, went back into the Mass Driver, which was bugged, and Minmatar logi, which was lumped up with the CaLogi during everyone's nerf witch hunt. It's something you find fun, like doing, and you have faith in the developers that they'll make things right. If everyone cared more about being effective than having fun, we'd all be running around in shield tanking suits and ARs.

Exmaple Core, I've been in the same boat you're in now. Not just with Dust or EVE, but in a lot of online games. Some of us are too stubborn to take the road less traveled with hopes that it pays off in the end. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, there's no guarantee. The only thing you can really do is think of the good times, or dream of the possible good times around the corner. If you decide to do anything that matters- don't give up. Whether it's too expensive, underpowered, or your peers don't respect what you do, find a way to keep things going- keep the faith and do it because it's what you like doing.

"Adapt or Die..."

So if we had a perfectly balanced game and unlimited respecs... There would still be FOTM chasing?

Dunno! this is what happens though, has all the time. But its not about nerfing a class into uselessness now and fixing them 6 months later. Its about having your class ruined and not having a reason to play for the next 6 months, as youve been swindled out of your SP. So, your entitled to respecs

There is no perfectly balanced game of this complexity. We could argue with fairies aswell by that standard.

There is no perfectly balanced game of this complexity. We could argue with fairies aswell by that standard.

So if we had a perfectly balanced game and unlimited respecs... There would still be FOTM chasing?

Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

That hypothetical is a matter of opinion.

One side of the coin will say "the game is perfectly balanced, so you don't need respecs"

The other side "the game is perfectly balance, so whats the harm in respecs?"

Isn't 1.4 supposed to be some massive shakeup?

How are we supposed to plan for the future when we have absolutely no idea what is changing.

:/

Point still stands no? Yes reality is we will never have perfect balancing, but get close enough and 'fotm chasing' will be indistinguishable from play style preference.

Isn't 1.4 supposed to be some massive shakeup?

How are we supposed to plan for the future when we have absolutely no idea what is changing.

:/

It's up to the game design philosophy at that point and i can live with either argument just fine.

Until we're even remotely balanced through, I think respecs would help more than they hurt. For reasons already listed.

I understand how you feel. I also know that if CCP fails to offer a optional respec after all suits, weapons, and vehicles are released there will be a lot of unhappy players. Balance is needed, but lets be patient and wait for them to fix the current problems and release of all items. I say 6 months from now if not half of these items are not fixed, there may not be enough people left. You can only take so much before you throw your hands up. For example American cars, the auto industry thought they were invincible and kept making crap. Americans had enough of it and moved to Japanese built cars.

It's up to the game design philosophy at that point and i can live with either argument just fine.

Until we're even remotely balanced through, I think respecs would help more than they hurt. For reasons already listed.

I understand how you feel. I also know that if CCP fails to offer a optional respec after all suits, weapons, and vehicles are released there will be a lot of unhappy players. Balance is needed, but lets be patient and wait for them to fix the current problems and release of all items. I say 6 months from now if not half of these items are not fixed, there may not be enough people left. You can only take so much before you throw your hands up. For example American cars, the auto industry thought they were invincible and kept making crap. Americans had enough of it and moved to Japanese built cars.

That tells us nothing. Not to say it's not a useful devblog, but apparently the entire Shanghai team has essentially been gutted, and 1.4 is supposed a big design leap. Vehicles and AV are getting a "balance pass" which with CCP, could literally be anything. That tank you love to drive today, might feel like garbage to you tomorrow. That forge gun you really enjoy all of a sudden just doesn't function like it has for so long, and the style is no longer fun. Those AV grenades you dumped oodles of SP into? Nah sorry, balance, those suck.

We have no idea

It's a crap shoot.

That tells us nothing. Not to say it's not a useful devblog, but apparently the entire Shanghai team has essentially been gutted, and 1.4 is supposed a big design leap. Vehicles and AV are getting a "balance pass" which with CCP, could literally be anything. That tank you love to drive today, might feel like garbage to you tomorrow. That forge gun you really enjoy all of a sudden just doesn't function like it has for so long, and the style is no longer fun. Those AV grenades you dumped oodles of SP into? Nah sorry, balance, those suck.

We have no idea

It's a crap shoot.

There is no perfectly balanced game of this complexity. We could argue with fairies aswell by that standard.

One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"

Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."

Yes, once it gets to that point. But its not...so we still have the same argument being thrown back and forth.

One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"

Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."

It will never end.

Don't be dismissive out of hand. There is a plenty of room between DUSTs current level of balance and fictional perfect, and you know it.

Think of League of Legends as an example. You essentially "respec" every game by picking a new character. Some champions go through phases of popularity or FOTM. But that doesn't ruin the game, because balance is so tight that other champions are viable if not always popular. Now imagine you had to pick our one champion, could never use any others, and Riot nerfed your one guy. Sounds like super duper fun right?

Respecs don't do anything except allow people to use different skills they otherwise already earned the points for. All whey did wrong was not correctly read CCPs mind months in advance.

Don't be dismissive out of hand. There is a plenty of room between DUSTs current level of balance and fictional perfect, and you know it.

Think of League of Legends as an example. You essentially "respec" every game by picking a new character. Some champions go through phases of popularity or FOTM. But that doesn't ruin the game, because balance is so tight that other champions are viable if not always popular. Now imagine you had to pick our one champion, could never use any others, and Riot nerfed your one guy. Sounds like super duper fun right?

Respecs don't do anything except allow people to use different skills they otherwise already earned the points for. All whey did wrong was not correctly read CCPs mind months in advance.

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

You are comparing watermelons to raisins.

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

I will fully admit, respecs go against the design philosophy of this game and will probably be bad in the long run. But right now the game needs help, and people just want to have fun while they play.

For many people sitting on nerfed builds, not having the ability to spec out of bad design decisions made by CCP means they cannot have fun... So why should they play?

I'm happy with my cal logi build, I don't even want a respec that badly. I just sit here now and make comments on it everyday for people like Exmaple who got boned by bad design and just left the deal with it.

I like this game, and I want more people to play it. Despite any of my forum rage ive posted in other threads.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. "Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. "Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

Cause we all know balance is months and months away... Iike it always has been for dust.

When it comes to corps... If you want to be competitive in PC you can't run terrible builds just cause you're a special snowflake. Most corps would probably tell him "Exmaple... You're a beast tanker. And when tanks become viable again next February we would love to run you again, but until then we need another assault on the field."

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

I respect Cosgar too much to troll, but this thread IS DUMBER THAN ME. Quit speccing into things you use so once they get nerfed to non-OP status, and play the game like someone respectable.

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

It can also be detrimental though.

Lets say they gave the respec for tankers and most tankers respecced out of tanks.

Now theres no use for large amounts of SP invested in AV, so AVer's respec out of it.

There's very few tanks and AV now, so how are they going to collect data for those to balance it?

Or what if those Tankers all decided to spec into LLAV, which is truly OP. Now you have 6 LLAV's driving around all match neigh unstoppable.

LLAV gets nerfed too strong because of glorified data, everyone respecs out of it. No more LLAVs anymore.

Respecs are indeed a way to keep things fresh, and to add enjoyment by speccing out of something you personally think isn't fun to play anymore.

It just my opinion thats it cant work well for this game. It will only create a merry-go-round of extreme buffs and nerfs.

It can also be detrimental though.

Lets say they gave the respec for tankers and most tankers respecced out of tanks.

Now theres no use for large amounts of SP invested in AV, so AVer's respec out of it.

There's very few tanks and AV now, so how are they going to collect data for those to balance it?

Or what if those Tankers all decided to spec into LLAV, which is truly OP. Now you have 6 LLAV's driving around all match neigh unstoppable.

LLAV gets nerfed too strong because of glorified data, everyone respecs out of it. No more LLAVs anymore.

Respecs are indeed a way to keep things fresh, and to add enjoyment by speccing out of something you personally think isn't fun to play anymore.

It just my opinion thats it cant work well for this game. It will only create a merry-go-round of extreme buffs and nerfs.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

You give it 2-3 weeks and it would all settle to equilibrium.

Yeah. I specced into something I knew was UP when I did it. I prefer the hard road, it forces me to be better than the kid who specs FOTM, because I have to be so to beat them.

think of it like this: When you use a crutch, and someone kicks it out, you can't get up as as easily because your legs got weak. Me? I laugh at the guy on the ground since I already did my getting up. Giggity.

So what should someone in exmaple's position do? Just quit the game?

You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

If the game in its current state is incapable of providing him the fun he's looking for than at least a break might be in order.

We are now getting to the point where we have to acknowledge that different people have different expactations of a fun game and that probably each of us has his own personal "screw this then" scenario. It might be that the prevention of my "screw this then" scenario might directly or indirectly trigger his "screw this then" scenario and vice versa. Now how do we deal with it?

In the end we all are standing up for what we believe is the best for the players and the game, knowing that our priorities might alienate someone else from it.

I'm not going to bs you in saying that i wasn't aware of the fact that i endorse a position that screws some people over. Every position screws somebody over.

This is good effort, but not very realistic in dust. The best players in the game sometimes migrate to the most FOTM classes in the game. When the best players go for FOTM, the UP does not win, skilled or no

C'mon dude...

Well. Supporting a position that screws somebody over is not what makes this game better. You just told me to stop playing because there is no help comming my way or for the same people cought in my position. You should be supporting a position that makes ppl want to play, fixing the promblems so people do not get screwed over. Respecs is the answer, telling ppl that they are screwed and should go take a brake, stop playing, is not how you keep your players

Whatever harmful effects respecs might have on the player market that has no ETA and we know nothing about, cannot be used as a valid argument against respecs in the present. Let's look at CCP's history of promises vs fulfillment in regards to Dust, frankly we don't even know that it will be added at this point.

I hope our new EP can grasp that while this game takes place in the EVE universe, it is not EVE, and it plays VASTLY different. While I don't necessarily support full blown respecs, a gradual skill reallocation system would certainly be desirable. As it is, you're expected to understand exactly how your playstyle will be, long before you get the chance to play it, or test the equipment that it requires.

You must invest blindly or through spreadsheets, ultimately theory crafting until you are rewarded with being stuck with the results, like or not.

The problem is that i don't agree that respecs are the answer, that's why we are arguing in the frist place.

CCP has stated earlier that a large part of the development of the market is monitoring player behavior after every intermediate feature is added (donation, isk transfer, later item trade etc.)

Putting respecs into this equation makes the whole thing volatile to no end. A temporary respec phase would invalidate all gathered data and CCP would risk damaging both economies if they merge them based on these false data.

And we know quite a bit about the basic functionality of the market. The planned eve dust connection pretty much predefined a range range of funcionality that will have to be definitely implemented or the feature can be scrapped altogether.

Lastly the market is only mentioned in one of those links iirc. Those are still standing.

I skilled into:

Remote explosives

Proximity mines

Nova knives

Shotguns

Plasma cannons

SMGs

Mass drivers

Minmatar scout

Out of all the things I just listed the mass driver is the only thing I can truly say I can depend on at all times because the other gear is A:bugged in someway or B:not powerfull enough to do it's job effectively.

I have not once asked for a respec because of the reasons abovementioned opting to attempt to get the gear balanced, while this is difficult due to much of the gear I choose to use not being 'mainstream' I'd rather a long tearm fix then a short tearm one, this is why I find the recent outcry for respecs due to the coming rebalancing of the flaylock and calldari logi suit humorous seeing as both were being used in unintended ways by those who wanted an unfair advantage and are not being unjustly brought down.

Oh and warning: my grammar sucks

Very rarely do classes that weren't being abused get nerfed hard enough to makes respec necessary

Lets say you were a scout, and you think that with aiming fixes coming in 1.4, you think that the scouts advantage of being hard to hit, well make a big damn uproar for a buff to ease the issue.
Now, lets say you were a CalLogi. If you were using it for what it was supposed to do, while you'll have to sacrifice some tank, you'll not be bothered by the nerf. And if you were dumb enough to spec into it for its mega assault capabilities, not thinking it would be nerfed, then shame on you. Spec into something that is supposed to mega assault, the heavy. Then maybe it can get balanced, cause people used to say it is UP, and I really don't know.

Very rarely do classes that weren't being abused get nerfed hard enough to makes respec necessary.

Unfortionetly classes that are not being abused do get nerfed... in dust. For example, 4 out of 6 of all vehical classes in dust and the HMG. In fact, they are nerfing the very balanced armor tank soon. And not soon tm. Also, specing into something that is UP does not balance the UP class. When has this happened in dust history? It hasent

nope, but CCP can't do small balance patches they only do huge pendulum swings. so whats UP right now, could be crazy OP next patch. and likewise, what's OP will likely be kneecapped with a ball-pein hammer. Live with your choices.

CCP has stated earlier that a large part of the development of the market is monitoring player behavior after every intermediate feature is added (donation, isk transfer, later item trade etc.)

Putting respecs into this equation makes the whole thing volatile to no end. A temporary respec phase would invalidate all gathered data and CCP would risk damaging both economies if they merge them based on these false data.

And we know quite a bit about the basic functionality of the market. The planned eve dust connection pretty much predefined a range range of funcionality that will have to be definitely implemented or the feature can be scrapped altogether.

Lastly the market is only mentioned in one of those links iirc. Those are still standing.

It is not your choices to live with when the DEVs make your choices for you. The choices you make when you spend your SP are invalidated and molested when your class is changed after you speced into it. Its not your choice at that point. Its CCPs

Respecs has solved the balancing promblems before and it is obvious it will fix them again.

Yes, this is a temporary fix but everything in dust seems to be temporary with how balance works in this game. There wont be a game if people dont play, and being unfair is what is pulling people away from dust.

Untill this game has a balance, when things are set in stone and are constant, our skill points should not be constant, it leads to rage, derp, QQ, and no desire to play dust at all. In fact, it leads to ppl telling those afflicted that they should stop playing because their well, simply, screwed. We need an answer, ans the only answer within the next 6 months or even a year is respecs

It's your choice to spend the SP on something that is obviously OP. It's your choice to continue playing after you were invalidated. It's your choice to whine on the forums for a respec that won't come.

It's your choice to spend the SP on something that is obviously OP. It's your choice to continue playing after you were invalidated. It's your choice to whine on the forums for a respec that won't come.

Ah i see, the orginal word was 1.4 and i have unfortionetly been busy so i missed this post. Very good idea, and im greatful you took the time to do this and correct my thread. thanks sir, really sucks that its pushed back tho :/

Opus,

I think you're too optimistic. Given the last 6 months ive played this game, and how little has gone right since the beginning of chromosome. I cannot imagine this game with be balanced before February next year.

Completely balanced? I agree.

There will be a periodic exchange of OP/UP cycles with less and less steep flanks but a state that we could call "properly balanced" will take quite some time. But now that we can be pretty sure that something wen't wrong with CCP Blam! we might see some great steps taken with regards to vehicles/AV in the near future if at least in relative terms.

And this is a matter of personal preference but i perceived Uprising and the later patches as very positive in my experience. Sure much is still broken and the pace of change could be improved but when i grow sick of the game i just take a break and come back when i feel like it.

I think the best approach is to ask oneself "is it fun?" and whenever the answer is "no" step aside and do things you enjoy. Did it a few times already and it really helps keep the distance.

I'm a shield-missile tanker. My entire playstyle is invalidated by a single forge gunner, or even half-decent tank on the field. you know what I did? grabbed a heavy machine gun and a fatsuit after a week long break. it's nice to start at the bottom again, keeps you from making bullcrap posts demanding a respec even though they already said NO MORE a while ago.

I'm a shield-missile tanker. My entire playstyle is invalidated by a single forge gunner, or even half-decent tank on the field. you know what I did? grabbed a heavy machine gun and a fatsuit after a week long break. it's nice to start at the bottom again, keeps you from making bullcrap posts demanding a respec even though they already said NO MORE a while ago.

That's just the nature of things.
Just pray to the CCP gods to have mercy and not to bring the nerf hammer, but the nerf chisel for your OP item.

My opinion is that you should live with it. they said your decisions matter, And they do. You chose to spec into a very specific role on an ever changing battlefield. when the battlefield changed, and you broke. I decided to be more flexible.

If the balance has been shown to be volatile at best, then try to avoid speccing into things too terribly heavily unless you're sure that come rain, snow, fire, or flood, you'll be able to be happy with it.

no, that is not an acceptable solution and if thats the only way to cope with DUSTs promblems then this game is done, the competition will sweep this hunk of junk through. Youl be on a new game that actually deals with their promblems and communicates positively with their players instead of playing a game were "your screwed and should stop playing".

Btw, i called you out a post or 2 above. Comment on it

How about a full reset. Sounds good to me. (BTW I have 10 mil SP)

How about a full reset. Sounds good to me. (BTW I have 10 mil SP)

as awsume as that would be, CCP said absolutely no more resets. respecs are still on the table

If you dont full spec into a class than you cant do anything well, thats as basic as it gets on an SP system. in fact, CCP encourages ppl to invest all their skill points into one class and become very efficent at it, there are videos with devs encouraging this from closed beta. You can not contribute to a team and make a difference without a full spec, nor will you be included in PC without a mono spec. Besides, we should not have to compensate with developers issuies, we should play the game like its meant to be played and feel secure in doing so. Do not post your incompetence on my threads

It is currently designed that way but I don't think this is in line with CCPs vision.

The skillsystem should allow specialization and generalization to be viable alternatives with varying ups and downs. The bonuses from Pro mods (especially tanking) are so strong that it's far too viable to fit proto whatever really. Since that one level an easily increase ehp by 20% with just the mods and almost triple it if combined with the suit.

This defies the concept of diminishing returns. And is thus bad.

I think that CCP can improve on this and interesting concepts have been proposed on these forums (among others from cat merc, of all people )

I have read your reply and apologize for speaking of ignorance about the latest developments. I can only imagine how aggrevating it must be to get set back yet another month or even longer. Maybe we will have another discussion in two days when i get my share of the nerf bat and find that i can change my class now.

I can understand if this "solution" i described is unacceptable for you. Other things would be unacceptable for me. What i stated was a pragmatic (if optimistic) view of what CCP can actually pull of in the best case. Balance changes like that will require several iterations to get somewhat right and there's hardly a point in wishing otherwise. This will just lead to disappointment and a videogame is the wrong source to willfully endure disappointment from.

You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

It is currently designed that way but I don't think this is in line with CCPs vision.

The skillsystem should allow specialization and generalization to be viable alternatives with varying ups and downs. The bonuses from Pro mods however (especially tanking) are so strong that it's far too viable to fit proto whatever really. Since that one level can easily increase ehp by 20% with just the mods and almost triple it if combined with the suit.

This defies the concept of diminishing returns. And is thus bad.

I think that CCP can improve on this and interesting concepts have been proposed on these forums (among others from cat merc, of all people )

Armor tank crying for 1.4 fix?Oh and no respec sorry

A reset won't fix anything.
Sure, it will even the playfield...
FOR NOW.
What about in 2-3 months?
New players will step in and find themselves in the same situation.
So you will do another reset?

A reset won't fix anything.
Sure, it will even the playfield...
FOR NOW.
What about in 2-3 months?
New players will step in and find themselves and the same situation.
So you will do another reset?

You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

I agree with a respec but after all the weapons are implemented and balanced so there is no fotm ****

I agree with a respec but after all the weapons are implemented and balanced so there is no fotm ****

That wont help those screwed over right now or for the next 2 years (ish)

Get rid of the cap and ill agree otherwise I could care less I skilled into what I need for situations

Were always going to have a cap, no matter what and we should. But you would care if you suddenly suck at the game because what you skilled into get nerfed into unreasonable levels. Then a respec would be appropriate

Sadly. a motivator in why i stand up to the haters, speds, Devs and derps who vote against respecs. Because iknow first hand what its like to invest time and SP into a class and have it ruined due to balancing. I would gladly respec if i could, to have a fighting chance and be useful again but i cant becuase im doomed to play the mistake CCP gave me. Myslef and others

For tankers should be given a respec..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T85rSUPT5w8&feature=youtube_gdata_player , ill sign

I support it for vehicles but none of those calogis anything but them

Yes those evil caldari logis should pay for their sins!

For tankers should be given a respec..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T85rSUPT5w8&feature=youtube_gdata_player , ill sign

Not so much that its OP but after the respec everyone went to it even though they knew it would get nerfed

Not so much that its OP but after the respec everyone went to it even though they knew it would get nerfed

Not so much that its OP but after the respec everyone went to it even though they knew it would get nerfed

LOLOL +1 so hard

What if some people spec'd into it, wanting a shield tanked logistics, knowing full well the shield buff was probably going to be removed, but then are forced to deal with -40 base CPU. They tried to predict CCPs nerfs and failed. Now they have to pay for it. Running a logi class that might not be suited to what they intended from the get go?

Saying oh they have 9 slots stfu and gtfo is the reasonable answer?

Honestly, after they fix armor, min logi and gal logi will be the much better choice, and many of those guys who picked cal logi to logi with shields would probably have picked min... Now they just have to live with it... I think its ****** personally.

I actually think the CPU nerf is probably perfect for balance. But it's not what people bought with their 10 weeks of SP.

Hopefully we can see a respec for logis in 1.4, once they redone bonuses. Cause sounds like the changes are drastic.

That was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard tanks, I love them so much but they suck

Well I get that but the people that think they should have the bonus the highs lows and the equipment and use it for assault purposes..for true logis I apologize

"Don't play with that, it'll get nerfed", shouldn't be a required line of thinking when judging what to skill into.

It's the same song and dance for anything that gets nerfed in this game though, you know?

It's the reason I'm advocating respecs on changes... So people can adapt to nerfs/buffs CCP implements. I have no personal agenda here.

I had to, I looked at it and thought and thought then decided wasn't worth the chance if you can see it coming why not avoid it?

It's a huge black mark for any new content, if players have to constantly worry about trying new toys which might be broken for their trouble. It's a whole lot of forbidden fruit nonsense which only stigmatizes player experimentation. New content is going to keep the game alive, having to worry about booty traps within said new content is going to drive players away.

It's a huge black mark for any new content, if players have to constantly worry about trying new toys which might be broken for their trouble. It's a whole lot of forbidden fruit nonsense which only stigmatizes player experimentation. New content is going to keep the game alive, having to worry about booty traps within said new content is going to drive players away.

I support it for vehicles but none of those calogis anything but them

as much as i agree that they dont diserve respecs for that logi abuse their class was molested by ccp so im morally inclined to say they should have respecs. reluctantly, of course but its the right thing to say ;3

You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks

Probably the same reason why even after my optional respec, went back into the Mass Driver, which was bugged, and Minmatar logi, which was lumped up with the CaLogi during everyone's nerf witch hunt. It's something you find fun, like doing, and you have faith in the developers that they'll make things right. If everyone cared more about being effective than having fun, we'd all be running around in shield tanking suits and ARs.

Exmaple Core, I've been in the same boat you're in now. Not just with Dust or EVE, but in a lot of online games. Some of us are too stubborn to take the road less traveled with hopes that it pays off in the end. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, there's no guarantee. The only thing you can really do is think of the good times, or dream of the possible good times around the corner. If you decide to do anything that matters- don't give up. Whether it's too expensive, underpowered, or your peers don't respect what you do, find a way to keep things going- keep the faith and do it because it's what you like doing.

"Adapt or Die..."

Once we've reached some semblance of balance, respecs won't be necessary. But the people on this forum are dellusional if they think we are balanced now or will be balanced by the end of the year.

FOTM is a symptom of bad balance, not of the ability to respec.

Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

i argue against it,

as much as i would like a respec to get back sp from skills i am no longer able to use effectively i disagree with your post. for a few reasons.

why should ccp punish players who didn't use op/unbalanced gear by rewarding people who did respecs so they can spec into the next op/unbalanced gear. its not ccp's problem you used op/unbalanced gear and as such are going to get nerfed. you reaped the rewards of the unbalance for months and now you have to pay for it

you only have yourself to blame by dumping everything you had into 1 role. i myself have about 20 different suits/vehicle fits for different roles and situations even specific ones for certain maps. some have been nerfed heavily and others not touched at all yet i fully expect more changes in the future.

everyone knows dust is going to be permanently adjusted over and over again and that sticking to 1 role is just a bad idea yet people still do it and cry respec when the inevitable balance happens

i argue against it,

as much as i would like a respec to get back sp from skills i am no longer able to use effectively i disagree with your post. for a few reasons.

why should ccp punish players who didn't use op/unbalanced gear by rewarding people who did respecs so they can spec into the next op/unbalanced gear. its not ccp's problem you used op/unbalanced gear and as such are going to get nerfed. you reaped the rewards of the unbalance for months and now you have to pay for it

you only have yourself to blame by dumping everything you had into 1 role. i myself have about 20 different suits/vehicle fits for different roles and situations even specific ones for certain maps. some have been nerfed heavily and others not touched at all yet i fully expect more changes in the future.

everyone knows dust is going to be permanently adjusted over and over again and that sticking to 1 role is just a bad idea yet people still do it and cry respec when the inevitable balance happens

This one time, I used to have a front line assault starter fit

and that was it...

Lol you support it for HIS case but not everybody elses... WHAT A SURPRISE! A "NF" supporting a "NF"! I would never think of this to happen! What a joke.

Yea but in those other games would it take you literally months to get into a new weapon or item was it plausible to get them in short order(2 weeks)

If the anti-respec crowd want it there way im willing to let them have it but we get NO SP CAP or 3x SP as the base weekly cap UNTIL a TRUE BALANCE is achieved,

/thread.

A free respec will see around 80-90% of players switching to the current FOTM and then demanding another free respec when that gets balance properly. CCP caves now, they'll never stop.

EDIT: not in favor of paid respecs either. spec what you love, and the kills will come.

You respec every few months untill you reach a point were the game is balanced enough for players to temper the game. Its called upkeep checks, attending to your players general interest to play your game even though you treat them like shiet, or fixing the mistakes you made ruining everyones playstyles and cadering to those still wanting to play dust. With all the rebalancing done, comming and will be comming later everyone is extreemly p*ssed off with whats happening to their classes and the SP they spent quiet some time ago now being garbage and unrefundable. People are great one day and their their garbage, shuned by strong corps and excluded in PC because of their class got changed suddenly. Should we all be garbage and just deal with it? No. You respec at reasonable intervals, when needed, so this game is still playable and tolerable. Simply telling everyone to stop playing, being patient, HTFU cuz your screwed or staying silent is killing dust and its playerbase. Compensation is needed to those wrongly afflicted by developer errors

why is it that what you're using has to be all-powerful for you to have fun? I specced into missile tanks because I like blowing shite up, and the caldari tanks specialize in missiles, which are all about blowing shite up. they were crap when I started, and have since gotten worse. According to everyone here, I should have quit to send a message to CCP. How's about I just keep doing what I like, since I don't need it to be OP to have fun.

I specced into too much. I seen the down fall of shields, but before I dumped my whole lot into it. FROM THE INITIAL RESPEC. From Chrome to here. So I dabbled back into my scout suit. Iffy results, then spent a few into a Gal Assault suit, again kinda iffy.

So far, I still play PC ( when MY time permits), and still turn a profit. I'm not even running proto suits yet and still working fine.

Look, try new things, here and there. Check out the MLT fit first, find one you like, and slowly spec into it.

Nothing is definitive in this game, let alone the company. We all knew this. You just had to Google "CCP" and probably see "NERF and BUFF Champions and still reigning"

I'm no special kitten here, but... if my scrubby butt can learn a new trick, I think an old vet like yourself can do the same.

Maybe if something is grossly UP, start a thread, which ( tankers and scouts) have, and at least a comment from a DEV. I don't have a magic crystal ball that will tell me the next nerf is coming, but I can tell you it is a matter of "when".

I have basically stopped playing the game, and doing videos. The whole experience has been a waste of many moons of grinding SP.

This community I have found out is not who you know but who you blow.... Too many "big chiefs" running around with titles that I NEVER NEVER see in the game, yet represent our best interests.....

I do not believe the forums are even related to the actual game anymore, or the interest of the daily player

OP? we want balance, and 99% of all FPS players dont want to be nonn factors, your the 1%. 100% of ppl dont want their class to be nerfed and be told to deal with it

Sad to see you go lowrate, I think a lot of us are right behind you...

Post QFT... All so pathetically true.

No, if you give more SP to ppl everyone will be able to do everything as oppossed to giving respecs so ppl can refine their class, whatever they choose, and be very efficient at one class. Giving everyone an insaine amount of SP reduces the demand for speced players

Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

I still get on perhaps 1-2 hr per week vs the 40+ hrs a weeks I was sinking into the game. I have not and will not spend anymore money on boosters or anything like that, and have not for awhile now.

I still get on perhaps 1-2 hr per week vs the 40+ hrs a weeks I was sinking into the game. I have not and will not spend anymore money on boosters or anything like that, and have not for awhile now.

Are these serious questions or troll?

Balance issues are part of every game throughout its entire life cycle. There is never a game that is 100% balanced 100% of the time. We know this so why weigh it so heavily in the argument.

The reality is that its about time. Balance aside, when I respect I am not respecing SP, I am respecing hundreds of hours of my life. So knowing that balance will always be ... out of balance. Allow players to ebbe and flow with it instead of feeling caged by their SP and their by devaluing the hours of their life spent earning it.

Same, Oceania afk farming till cap... Then a few PC matches.. And that's it. But I'm sadly struggling to even afk farm anymore... Haven't bought a merc pack since chrome...

That is one of the people that was chosen to represent you and your ideas...no offense

yes, because everyone should only ever run what is FOTM. all others are scrubs and "nonn factors" right?

I am offended, that this guy has any say in a game I hope will be better then it is now.

he may make mistakes, but i like IWS. he does alot for us and really trys to make our dust experience better

"There will always be FOTM chasers" They're called about 90% of the population of any given FPS, probably more in dust with the EVE "any advantage I can take" mentality.

That is what will destroy the game, you'll go from a myriad selection of suits, guns, and vehicles to one of each, kitted out exactly the same. Unless you want to outright lose every fight you're in since every time the balance changes, the majority of the game switches to whatever's OP. You can only dodge so many flaylock shots.

"There will always be FOTM chasers" They're called about 90% of the population of any given FPS, probably more in dust with the EVE "any advantage I can take" mentality.

That is what will destroy the game, you'll go from a myriad selection of suits, guns, and vehicles to one of each, kitted out exactly the same. Unless you want to outright lose every fight you're in since every time the balance changes, the majority of the game switches to whatever's OP. You can only dodge so many flaylock shots.

Its more than jus popularity, the evidence is there he does do alot for us. I dont agree with all of his ideas and sometimes he deffenetly derps out but its okay in my book. He would be more popular with me if hed post up his oppinion on respecs or some meaningful news in this thread

I disagree, whole heartedly. I believe CCP should take a chance, if you are correct they will know within a month and change it back no harm done. If you are incorrect we could have a phenomenal new game on our hands.

Things will get better and more balanced as time passes, 1.2 is a balance patch and that is progress. And in the progress of the balance ppl will get nerfed and the FOTM class will kill them even worse. So, if your able to respec you can spec into that FOTM class or more idealy, a more balanced class and repeat the process untill dust is more roundly balanced. That, keeps ppl happy and playing

no they won't. they are already getting HUGE backlash and people demanding respecs right now over putting one suit and gun in line. Imagine the shitstorm if they took out a month's worth of SP in a rollback?

And it's human nature to want to win. that doesn't change. It's why I know that so much of the playerbase will flock to the statistical "best" items and fits in the game.

no they won't. they are already getting HUGE backlash and people demanding respecs right now over putting one suit and gun in line. Imagine the shitstorm if they took out a month's worth of SP in a rollback?

And it's human nature to want to win. that doesn't change. It's why I know that so much of the playerbase will flock to the statistical "best" items and fits in the game.

no they won't. they are already getting HUGE backlash and people demanding respecs right now over putting one suit and gun in line. Imagine the shitstorm if they took out a month's worth of SP in a rollback?

And it's human nature to want to win. that doesn't change. It's why I know that so much of the playerbase will flock to the statistical "best" items and fits in the game.