It's up to the game design philosophy at that point and i can live with either argument just fine.

Until we're even remotely balanced through, I think respecs would help more than they hurt. For reasons already listed.

I understand how you feel. I also know that if CCP fails to offer a optional respec after all suits, weapons, and vehicles are released there will be a lot of unhappy players. Balance is needed, but lets be patient and wait for them to fix the current problems and release of all items. I say 6 months from now if not half of these items are not fixed, there may not be enough people left. You can only take so much before you throw your hands up. For example American cars, the auto industry thought they were invincible and kept making crap. Americans had enough of it and moved to Japanese built cars.

It's up to the game design philosophy at that point and i can live with either argument just fine.

Until we're even remotely balanced through, I think respecs would help more than they hurt. For reasons already listed.

I understand how you feel. I also know that if CCP fails to offer a optional respec after all suits, weapons, and vehicles are released there will be a lot of unhappy players. Balance is needed, but lets be patient and wait for them to fix the current problems and release of all items. I say 6 months from now if not half of these items are not fixed, there may not be enough people left. You can only take so much before you throw your hands up. For example American cars, the auto industry thought they were invincible and kept making crap. Americans had enough of it and moved to Japanese built cars.

That tells us nothing. Not to say it's not a useful devblog, but apparently the entire Shanghai team has essentially been gutted, and 1.4 is supposed a big design leap. Vehicles and AV are getting a "balance pass" which with CCP, could literally be anything. That tank you love to drive today, might feel like garbage to you tomorrow. That forge gun you really enjoy all of a sudden just doesn't function like it has for so long, and the style is no longer fun. Those AV grenades you dumped oodles of SP into? Nah sorry, balance, those suck.

We have no idea

It's a crap shoot.

That tells us nothing. Not to say it's not a useful devblog, but apparently the entire Shanghai team has essentially been gutted, and 1.4 is supposed a big design leap. Vehicles and AV are getting a "balance pass" which with CCP, could literally be anything. That tank you love to drive today, might feel like garbage to you tomorrow. That forge gun you really enjoy all of a sudden just doesn't function like it has for so long, and the style is no longer fun. Those AV grenades you dumped oodles of SP into? Nah sorry, balance, those suck.

We have no idea

It's a crap shoot.

There is no perfectly balanced game of this complexity. We could argue with fairies aswell by that standard.

One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"

Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."

Yes, once it gets to that point. But its not...so we still have the same argument being thrown back and forth.

One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"

Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."

It will never end.

Don't be dismissive out of hand. There is a plenty of room between DUSTs current level of balance and fictional perfect, and you know it.

Think of League of Legends as an example. You essentially "respec" every game by picking a new character. Some champions go through phases of popularity or FOTM. But that doesn't ruin the game, because balance is so tight that other champions are viable if not always popular. Now imagine you had to pick our one champion, could never use any others, and Riot nerfed your one guy. Sounds like super duper fun right?

Respecs don't do anything except allow people to use different skills they otherwise already earned the points for. All whey did wrong was not correctly read CCPs mind months in advance.

Don't be dismissive out of hand. There is a plenty of room between DUSTs current level of balance and fictional perfect, and you know it.

Think of League of Legends as an example. You essentially "respec" every game by picking a new character. Some champions go through phases of popularity or FOTM. But that doesn't ruin the game, because balance is so tight that other champions are viable if not always popular. Now imagine you had to pick our one champion, could never use any others, and Riot nerfed your one guy. Sounds like super duper fun right?

Respecs don't do anything except allow people to use different skills they otherwise already earned the points for. All whey did wrong was not correctly read CCPs mind months in advance.

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

You are comparing watermelons to raisins.

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

I will fully admit, respecs go against the design philosophy of this game and will probably be bad in the long run. But right now the game needs help, and people just want to have fun while they play.

For many people sitting on nerfed builds, not having the ability to spec out of bad design decisions made by CCP means they cannot have fun... So why should they play?

I'm happy with my cal logi build, I don't even want a respec that badly. I just sit here now and make comments on it everyday for people like Exmaple who got boned by bad design and just left the deal with it.

I like this game, and I want more people to play it. Despite any of my forum rage ive posted in other threads.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. "Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. "Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

Cause we all know balance is months and months away... Iike it always has been for dust.

When it comes to corps... If you want to be competitive in PC you can't run terrible builds just cause you're a special snowflake. Most corps would probably tell him "Exmaple... You're a beast tanker. And when tanks become viable again next February we would love to run you again, but until then we need another assault on the field."

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

I respect Cosgar too much to troll, but this thread IS DUMBER THAN ME. Quit speccing into things you use so once they get nerfed to non-OP status, and play the game like someone respectable.

Respecs have a few unique advantages though.

1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster.
2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed.
3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies.
4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.

It can also be detrimental though.

Lets say they gave the respec for tankers and most tankers respecced out of tanks.

Now theres no use for large amounts of SP invested in AV, so AVer's respec out of it.

There's very few tanks and AV now, so how are they going to collect data for those to balance it?

Or what if those Tankers all decided to spec into LLAV, which is truly OP. Now you have 6 LLAV's driving around all match neigh unstoppable.

LLAV gets nerfed too strong because of glorified data, everyone respecs out of it. No more LLAVs anymore.

Respecs are indeed a way to keep things fresh, and to add enjoyment by speccing out of something you personally think isn't fun to play anymore.

It just my opinion thats it cant work well for this game. It will only create a merry-go-round of extreme buffs and nerfs.

It can also be detrimental though.

Lets say they gave the respec for tankers and most tankers respecced out of tanks.

Now theres no use for large amounts of SP invested in AV, so AVer's respec out of it.

There's very few tanks and AV now, so how are they going to collect data for those to balance it?

Or what if those Tankers all decided to spec into LLAV, which is truly OP. Now you have 6 LLAV's driving around all match neigh unstoppable.

LLAV gets nerfed too strong because of glorified data, everyone respecs out of it. No more LLAVs anymore.

Respecs are indeed a way to keep things fresh, and to add enjoyment by speccing out of something you personally think isn't fun to play anymore.

It just my opinion thats it cant work well for this game. It will only create a merry-go-round of extreme buffs and nerfs.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.