Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using?
Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table?
Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items?

Hmm, but if it was properly balanced and fair, then why would it get a nerf or buff?

To be fair, plasma cannon was always bad.

Laser nerf was pretty much just the viziam, otherwise the guns major change was just the iron sights. Which DID make it, in effect, a nerf...but technically it isnt. (and anyways, they are adding the red dot sight back to lasers which will bring back the melting of faces)

I dunno, my HMG was nerfed into a shorter range then a shotgun with worse dispersion than an SMG...my forge gun was never correctly registering direct and splash radius hits for months, strafe speed was increased but they still left me fat and slow to turn... yet i still had fun.

maybe I'm just a rare breed that enjoys the game i play, even through the rough patches.

I humbly disagree.

FOTM is a symptom of both bad balance and respecs, imo.

Bad balance is the drug.

Respecs are the drug dealers.

Dunno! this is what happens though, has all the time. But its not about nerfing a class into uselessness now and fixing them 6 months later. Its about having your class ruined and not having a reason to play for the next 6 months, as youve been swindled out of your SP. So, your entitled to respecs

There is no perfectly balanced game of this complexity. We could argue with fairies aswell by that standard.

That hypothetical is a matter of opinion.

One side of the coin will say "the game is perfectly balanced, so you don't need respecs"

The other side "the game is perfectly balance, so whats the harm in respecs?"

Isn't 1.4 supposed to be some massive shakeup?

How are we supposed to plan for the future when we have absolutely no idea what is changing.

:/

I understand how you feel. I also know that if CCP fails to offer a optional respec after all suits, weapons, and vehicles are released there will be a lot of unhappy players. Balance is needed, but lets be patient and wait for them to fix the current problems and release of all items. I say 6 months from now if not half of these items are not fixed, there may not be enough people left. You can only take so much before you throw your hands up. For example American cars, the auto industry thought they were invincible and kept making crap. Americans had enough of it and moved to Japanese built cars.

That tells us nothing. Not to say it's not a useful devblog, but apparently the entire Shanghai team has essentially been gutted, and 1.4 is supposed a big design leap. Vehicles and AV are getting a "balance pass" which with CCP, could literally be anything. That tank you love to drive today, might feel like garbage to you tomorrow. That forge gun you really enjoy all of a sudden just doesn't function like it has for so long, and the style is no longer fun. Those AV grenades you dumped oodles of SP into? Nah sorry, balance, those suck.

We have no idea

It's a crap shoot.

Yes, once it gets to that point. But its not...so we still have the same argument being thrown back and forth.

One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"

Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."

It will never end.

In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. "Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

It can also be detrimental though.

Lets say they gave the respec for tankers and most tankers respecced out of tanks.

Now theres no use for large amounts of SP invested in AV, so AVer's respec out of it.

There's very few tanks and AV now, so how are they going to collect data for those to balance it?

Or what if those Tankers all decided to spec into LLAV, which is truly OP. Now you have 6 LLAV's driving around all match neigh unstoppable.

LLAV gets nerfed too strong because of glorified data, everyone respecs out of it. No more LLAVs anymore.

Respecs are indeed a way to keep things fresh, and to add enjoyment by speccing out of something you personally think isn't fun to play anymore.

It just my opinion thats it cant work well for this game. It will only create a merry-go-round of extreme buffs and nerfs.

Very rarely do classes that weren't being abused get nerfed hard enough to makes respec necessary.

It's your choice to spend the SP on something that is obviously OP. It's your choice to continue playing after you were invalidated. It's your choice to whine on the forums for a respec that won't come.

I'm a shield-missile tanker. My entire playstyle is invalidated by a single forge gunner, or even half-decent tank on the field. you know what I did? grabbed a heavy machine gun and a fatsuit after a week long break. it's nice to start at the bottom again, keeps you from making bullcrap posts demanding a respec even though they already said NO MORE a while ago.

That's just the nature of things.
Just pray to the CCP gods to have mercy and not to bring the nerf hammer, but the nerf chisel for your OP item.

It is currently designed that way but I don't think this is in line with CCPs vision.

The skillsystem should allow specialization and generalization to be viable alternatives with varying ups and downs. The bonuses from Pro mods (especially tanking) are so strong that it's far too viable to fit proto whatever really. Since that one level an easily increase ehp by 20% with just the mods and almost triple it if combined with the suit.

This defies the concept of diminishing returns. And is thus bad.

I think that CCP can improve on this and interesting concepts have been proposed on these forums (among others from cat merc, of all people )

I agree with a respec but after all the weapons are implemented and balanced so there is no fotm ****

For tankers should be given a respec..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T85rSUPT5w8&feature=youtube_gdata_player , ill sign

I support it for vehicles but none of those calogis anything but them

Not so much that its OP but after the respec everyone went to it even though they knew it would get nerfed

Well I get that but the people that think they should have the bonus the highs lows and the equipment and use it for assault purposes..for true logis I apologize

i argue against it,

as much as i would like a respec to get back sp from skills i am no longer able to use effectively i disagree with your post. for a few reasons.

why should ccp punish players who didn't use op/unbalanced gear by rewarding people who did respecs so they can spec into the next op/unbalanced gear. its not ccp's problem you used op/unbalanced gear and as such are going to get nerfed. you reaped the rewards of the unbalance for months and now you have to pay for it

you only have yourself to blame by dumping everything you had into 1 role. i myself have about 20 different suits/vehicle fits for different roles and situations even specific ones for certain maps. some have been nerfed heavily and others not touched at all yet i fully expect more changes in the future.

everyone knows dust is going to be permanently adjusted over and over again and that sticking to 1 role is just a bad idea yet people still do it and cry respec when the inevitable balance happens

I have basically stopped playing the game, and doing videos. The whole experience has been a waste of many moons of grinding SP.

This community I have found out is not who you know but who you blow.... Too many "big chiefs" running around with titles that I NEVER NEVER see in the game, yet represent our best interests.....

I do not believe the forums are even related to the actual game anymore, or the interest of the daily player

I still get on perhaps 1-2 hr per week vs the 40+ hrs a weeks I was sinking into the game. I have not and will not spend anymore money on boosters or anything like that, and have not for awhile now.

I think those of you who mention quitting, should stop making threats and just quit. Eve grew at a very slow pace, even though millions have tried and quit. but CCP kept it going, and now there is nothing to compare to the magnitude of what heppens in Eve. in fact, they just made BBC news today.

I know plenty of people who like this "adapt or die" about Dust, how you will not get a respec, to think ahead before you invest SP on whether you are investing it on yourself, or investing it into you K/D ratio...

they have a small team, they aren't a giant corporation. they dont need a huge amount of players to pay to keep operating... BF does, COD does, Halo does, but not Dust... there is like 10% of the team that those companies have working on dust...

you can keep telling yourself that they will not make enough to keep dust going but they will...

you can keep saying that all the players will leave, but they wont. there will always be the ones who are curious to see where it goes, and there will always be the ones who know where its going...

This is not a just a mindless FPS. this is a thinking man's game, and it will remain that way.

its not my fault if you didnt think ahead and chose the "best" weapon or suit at the time. you didnt think ahead to the consequences of using that too your advantage.... shoulda invest SP into yourself and not your K/D

is that not thinking?

nope... i just think, if you cant adapt... then this isnt for you. Respec is dumb. shoulda did more research.

Seriously? Is there something in the water? WTF.

we used to compete PC in a PC alliance... as did my previous corp... not sure why it makes a difference...

How is that relevant? Last i checked the subject was not PC. Engage the argument, not the person arguing.

I've been noticing that trend, and it seems to be very much the same "competitive vs causal" BS that most games and hobbies suffer from. "Causals" seems to hate "Competitors" because they don't understand their outlook, meanwhile many competitors ultimately desire a healthly mix of both players because they know Competitors often start as Causals.

It's the people who want tears and suffering from Cal-logis and Flaylock users. Some feel they should be punished for using the tools the developers gave them. It makes no sense to me.

That's a good question and i answer it's both. The SP system is clearly a RPG mechanic. Respecs make this mechanic void. Unless we are fine with effectively removing this mechanic altogether respecs are out of question in my opinion.

na... we left on our own. didnt like the the drama. the last corp i was in was the same... didnt like the drama of PC...

*snip* quote limit
You are picking out the weakest argument there is, spice it up with some nice hyperbole and keep smashing as if this is all that the SP system is supposed to do and does.

Have a look here, here, here, here, here and here for reasons that are largely independent from the whole FOTM rambling that is going on here. It gets tiring when you have to repeat yourself countless times so i have picked a few good pieces to refer to.

That is all true and i feel you in that regard. I'm probably going to dump 1.5m sp in core skills tomorrow just to maintain the current functionality of my cal logi.

And i don't think it's ok to overnerf stuff, i assume no one does. But what we are looking at is a balancing issue first and foremost.
[tbc in 10m, match started. ]

It matters because we all know too well that CCP won't get away with a "temporary respec phase" if you will. As soon as CCP is admitting that balance changes warrant a respec, this inevitably is the new default position.

It also seems like every other patch will have some content to it - 1.2 had, 1.4 will most likely have. So new content will not wait for several months, even when basic balance is not complete. They have to release this stuff because every addition can possibly change the combat dynamics and throw all balance back into the bin (cloack, everyone needs a sensor booster in PC, readjust all cpu to allow for that.)

They are not permante because CCP chances the classes your spend SP on.

yeah your right. Why play now when your getting screwed over when you can be rewarded for not playing at all and come back later? deffenetly how dust is supposed to be played. Its sad that CCP is endorsing this way of thinking by nerfing the classes we play so we cant win, and forcing us to stay in them for months. A shame, i once enjoyed dust. back when i was good... btw check out my post were i qouted that dude above yours. Hes prolly off crying somewere

I use an Exile on a Sever Logi suit.

I carry BPO repair tool, advanced nanohive, a BPO pick me up stick, and a advanced flux.
I have Two advanced code breakers and two BPO shield extenders.

Last time I looked nothing in this ^ list was ever the FOTM, lol.

Good try though.

Humm last time I looked HAV's where on that FOTM list though and then they got nerfed and the tears have not stopped since.
You are still holding on to that proud tradition as well, good for you.

Again, you will either quit or respec when you get the chance.

Your guy is the one throwing it around you tool, LOL!
Are you telling your own guy to go back to COD?

LOL pure fail, I love it.

Keep fighting for that respec because you are a short term short sighted player

If you honestly believe this, then why bother asking for a respec for a game that will probably be dead and buried by the time you get it anyway?

In fact, why bother posting on the forum for an inevitably dead game at all?

Just seems like a pointless waste of time and energy to me. In fact, without even trying, I'm sure I could think of literally HUNDREDS of better, more constructive things a person could do with their time, just off the top of my head.