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Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
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Posted - 2013.07.28 04:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:You play a properly balanced, fair and fun class. Liking the class, you dump all 15 mill SP to your name into the class. Suddenly, new build/patch comes around and your class is nerfed without your consent and you now suck at the game. You spawn in your proto suit or your vehical and you are killed over and over, loosing all your ISK. You are told you can not play PC because the one class you are good at, sucks. Nobody wants you in any serious endeavor in dust because your class is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Like current shield tanks, dropships, lazers, plasma cannons and soon to be armor tanks when they fix the bug that is causing them to be balanced. You no longer want to play dust, as the class you played is ruined and so is your ability to enjoy playing dust, because the developers ruined the class you speced into. CCP later anounes that they will not be fixing your class for many months and they ask you to accept their most sincere apologies, despite changing the class that you speced into many months beforehand. Should you get a respec? This happened to the classes mentioned previously and will happen again when the fix the armor tanks
Hmm, but if it was properly balanced and fair, then why would it get a nerf or buff?
To be fair, plasma cannon was always bad.
Laser nerf was pretty much just the viziam, otherwise the guns major change was just the iron sights. Which DID make it, in effect, a nerf...but technically it isnt. (and anyways, they are adding the red dot sight back to lasers which will bring back the melting of faces)
I dunno, my HMG was nerfed into a shorter range then a shotgun with worse dispersion than an SMG...my forge gun was never correctly registering direct and splash radius hits for months, strafe speed was increased but they still left me fat and slow to turn... yet i still had fun.
maybe I'm just a rare breed that enjoys the game i play, even through the rough patches.
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Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Once we've reached some semblance of balance, respecs won't be necessary. But the people on this forum are dellusional if they think we are balanced now or will be balanced by the end of the year.
FOTM is a symptom of bad balance, not of the ability to respec.
I humbly disagree.
FOTM is a symptom of both bad balance and respecs, imo.
Bad balance is the drug.
Respecs are the drug dealers. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Duran Lex wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Once we've reached some semblance of balance, respecs won't be necessary. But the people on this forum are dellusional if they think we are balanced now or will be balanced by the end of the year.
FOTM is a symptom of bad balance, not of the ability to respec. I humbly disagree. FOTM is a symptom of both bad balance and respecs, imo. Bad balance is the drug. Respecs are the drug dealers. So if we had a perfectly balanced game and unlimited respecs... There would still be FOTM chasing?
That hypothetical is a matter of opinion.
One side of the coin will say "the game is perfectly balanced, so you don't need respecs"
The other side "the game is perfectly balance, so whats the harm in respecs?"
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Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Why did you constantly put more skill levels into an item you hate using? Then why are you hanging out with a corp that doesn't appreciate what you bring to the table? Then why are you wasting your energy asking for a respec instead of asking for balance to include missing items? Isn't 1.4 supposed to be some massive shakeup? How are we supposed to plan for the future when we have absolutely no idea what is changing. :/
Here
this might help too |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Duran Lex wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Duran Lex wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Once we've reached some semblance of balance, respecs won't be necessary. But the people on this forum are dellusional if they think we are balanced now or will be balanced by the end of the year.
FOTM is a symptom of bad balance, not of the ability to respec. I humbly disagree. FOTM is a symptom of both bad balance and respecs, imo. Bad balance is the drug. Respecs are the drug dealers. So if we had a perfectly balanced game and unlimited respecs... There would still be FOTM chasing? That hypothetical is a matter of opinion. One side of the coin will say "the game is perfectly balanced, so you don't need respecs" The other side "the game is perfectly balance, so whats the harm in respecs?" It's up to the game design philosophy at that point and i can live with either argument just fine. Until we're even remotely balanced through, I think respecs would help more than they hurt. For reasons already listed.
Yes, once it gets to that point. But its not...so we still have the same argument being thrown back and forth.
One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"
Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."
It will never end. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote: That tells us nothing. Not to say it's not a useful devblog, but apparently the entire Shanghai team has essentially been gutted, and 1.4 is supposed a big design leap. Vehicles and AV are getting a "balance pass" which with CCP, could literally be anything. That tank you love to drive today, might feel like garbage to you tomorrow. That forge gun you really enjoy all of a sudden just doesn't function like it has for so long, and the style is no longer fun. Those AV grenades you dumped oodles of SP into? Nah sorry, balance, those suck.
We have no idea
It's a crap shoot.
You don't think aiming being taken care of isn't something big?
With all the complaints about how aiming is terrible?
Assuming if course this patch WILL fix aiming.
But bringing back the proper aim assist, and removing the turning speed cap on the mouse sounds like a pretty large step in a good direction.
Edit - that "balance pass" is the large vehicle/AV rework that prolly won't make it into 1.4. Thats the post that first gave us insight into this major change. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:
Don't be dismissive out of hand. There is a plenty of room between DUSTs current level of balance and fictional perfect, and you know it.
Think of League of Legends as an example. You essentially "respec" every game by picking a new character. Some champions go through phases of popularity or FOTM. But that doesn't ruin the game, because balance is so tight that other champions are viable if not always popular. Now imagine you had to pick our one champion, could never use any others, and Riot nerfed your one guy. Sounds like super duper fun right?
Respecs don't do anything except allow people to use different skills they otherwise already earned the points for. All whey did wrong was not correctly read CCPs mind months in advance.
You are comparing watermelons to raisins. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Duran Lex wrote:
Yes, once it gets to that point. But its not...so we still have the same argument being thrown back and forth.
One side - "It helps the game by letting people choose what they want to have fun with"
Other side - "It helps ruin the game by letting people choose the FOTM to have fun with."
It will never end.
Respecs have a few unique advantages though. 1. They show the metrics for FOTM much clearer to CCP, getting us closer to balance faster. 2. They allow people to spec into FOTM counters until FOTM can get fixed. 3. They don't alienate players who've been nerfed into oblivion by a 'balance patch' like tankers and scouts and heavies. 4. They can clearly see which suits are underutilized since people don't have to use them anymore, instead... People are just stuck with ****** suits and left to complain endlessly on the forum until they give up and quit the game.
It can also be detrimental though.
Lets say they gave the respec for tankers and most tankers respecced out of tanks.
Now theres no use for large amounts of SP invested in AV, so AVer's respec out of it.
There's very few tanks and AV now, so how are they going to collect data for those to balance it?
Or what if those Tankers all decided to spec into LLAV, which is truly OP. Now you have 6 LLAV's driving around all match neigh unstoppable.
LLAV gets nerfed too strong because of glorified data, everyone respecs out of it. No more LLAVs anymore.
Respecs are indeed a way to keep things fresh, and to add enjoyment by speccing out of something you personally think isn't fun to play anymore.
It just my opinion thats it cant work well for this game. It will only create a merry-go-round of extreme buffs and nerfs. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote: You give it 2-3 weeks and it would all settle to equilibrium.
Problem is you can't guarantee that anymore then i can guarantee it won't happen.
opinions based on speculation will always be such. |
Duran Lex
Silver Talon Corporation
116
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 05:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:I skilled into: Remote explosives Proximity mines Nova knives Shotguns Plasma cannons SMGs Mass drivers Minmatar scout Out of all the things I just listed the mass driver is the only thing I can truly say I can depend on at all times because the other gear is A:bugged in someway or B:not powerfull enough to do it's job effectively. I have not once asked for a respec because of the reasons abovementioned opting to attempt to get the gear balanced, while this is difficult due to much of the gear I choose to use not being 'mainstream' I'd rather a long tearm fix then a short tearm one, this is why I find the recent outcry for respecs due to the coming rebalancing of the flaylock and calldari logi suit humorous seeing as both were being used in unintended ways by those who wanted an unfair advantage and are not being unjustly brought down. Oh and warning: my grammar sucks
Don't know how many times i died at an objective to RE. (i know its my fault for not seeing them, but sometimes they are just so hard to see!
Proxy mines - can't comment
I've seen a scout with proto knives running faster then his leg animations could keep up with, killing 3 people unawares with ease.
Don't know how many times a shotgun scout pegged me in the face twice for a quick kill (Heavy suit)
Plasma cannons are lol
SMG's are just straight up fuckin powerful at proto.
Mass Driver - understandable.
Sounds like you just aren't fully specced into making those weapons awesome.
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