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dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
241
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Posted - 2013.07.29 06:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
FOTM is common in games which allow for customizable fittings, especially when skillpoints/experience points come into play.
Such games will always be rebalanced over and over while FOTM would still occur with each rebalance pass, since it is virtually impossible to properly balance everything equally (unless they just made all the suits have the same slots, bonuses etc. and all the weapons have the same stats)
Allowing for unlimited respecs just means most people will put all their points into something that's 'optimal' for each rebalancing CCP does, which kills diversity in the game. 1.0 -> Cal logi TAR 1.1 -> Cal logi flaylock 1.2 -> Cal logi .......
What can players do to avoid feeling they've been screwed over? Well, spec into something that you find fun to play with. Don't specialize too much into one role, unless you really really really enjoy that role, otherwise you'll be shooting yourself in that role.
My 2 cents |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
241
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Posted - 2013.07.29 07:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grief PK wrote:dustwaffle wrote:FOTM is common in games which allow for customizable fittings, especially when skillpoints/experience points come into play.
Such games will always be rebalanced over and over while FOTM would still occur with each rebalance pass, since it is virtually impossible to properly balance everything equally (unless they just made all the suits have the same slots, bonuses etc. and all the weapons have the same stats)
Allowing for unlimited respecs just means most people will put all their points into something that's 'optimal' for each rebalancing CCP does, which kills diversity in the game. 1.0 -> Cal logi TAR 1.1 -> Cal logi flaylock 1.2 -> Cal logi .......
What can players do to avoid feeling they've been screwed over? Well, spec into something that you find fun to play with. Don't specialize too much into one role, unless you really really really enjoy that role, otherwise you'll be shooting yourself in that role.
My 2 cents How do you know you enjoy the role if you are a new player... how do you know you will enjoy the role in 6 months or even 1 month? I tried the basic assault fitting, found it OK, but something was lacking. Tried the militia logistics fitting, found I preferred a more supportive role. Tried the heavy role, both HMG/Forge gun provided some novelty but decided it wasn't much to my liking. Flew/drove some militia stuff around, decided I didn't want to go down that route. Tried scouts, both shotgun and sniper, a bit too squishy for my liking.
Therefore, I took the logical route and specced into something that was FUN for me. By fun, I don't mean something that gave me a high KDR, nor something that allowed me to pubstomp all day everyday, but something that I could see myself doing on a regular basis.
Once this playstyle gets too boring for me, I will give myself more options by putting skillpoints into different things. People say you HAVE to min/max a fit before it's 'competitive', but honestly, I prefer having few hundred thousand (1-2 weeks worth of SP) in stuff other than my main role, since this gives me more options, diversifying my gameplay a bit.
PS. I'm callogi using a TAR, and not fussed about whether I get a respec or not. If I did, I would still stick with what I have now since I find it fun, if I didn't, no biggie. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
241
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Posted - 2013.07.29 07:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Stands Alone wrote:Grief PK wrote:dustwaffle wrote:FOTM is common in games which allow for customizable fittings, especially when skillpoints/experience points come into play.
Such games will always be rebalanced over and over while FOTM would still occur with each rebalance pass, since it is virtually impossible to properly balance everything equally (unless they just made all the suits have the same slots, bonuses etc. and all the weapons have the same stats)
Allowing for unlimited respecs just means most people will put all their points into something that's 'optimal' for each rebalancing CCP does, which kills diversity in the game. 1.0 -> Cal logi TAR 1.1 -> Cal logi flaylock 1.2 -> Cal logi .......
What can players do to avoid feeling they've been screwed over? Well, spec into something that you find fun to play with. Don't specialize too much into one role, unless you really really really enjoy that role, otherwise you'll be shooting yourself in that role.
My 2 cents How do you know you enjoy the role if you are a new player... how do you know you will enjoy the role in 6 months or even 1 month? if you like to blow **** up, then get a ******* mass driver and some remote explosives... if you like to head shot people, get a sniper rifle... simple No, not so simple. 6 months down the line, the basic functions of whatever you choose could change. Well, unless assault rifles get modified to shoot lasers or grenades, or lasers become burstfire etc. I do not see how the 'basic function' of whatever chosen will change. Mostly number tweaking, which does not equate to a change to fundamental basics of the game.
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dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
243
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Posted - 2013.07.29 08:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
dday3six wrote:Ok. Let's use a vanilla AR magazine size decrease as an example. What if CCP decided decrease the mag size to 40. This would alter how a person needed to approach fire fights, and even change the playstyle required for max effectiveness because running your mag dry and reloading at the wrong time could get your killed. That's what I mean by the basic functions could change. Ah, that would be a change in the overall tactics used PER engagement. However, my point is that the rifle itself would work the same way, i.e. you aim and shoot and bullets fly out. Changing the ammo count, absolute/optimal range, damage per shot etc. do NOT change the basic function of the gun itself.
Granted, you would have to adapt your playstyle etc. given the changes made, but hey, for some people (like me), adapting to the overall metagame and adapting tactics etc. keeps a game fresh. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
244
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Posted - 2013.07.29 10:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:We need our respecs already.
A nice monthly respec offer after every patch.
Don't want us to spam it? Don't offer ISK or AUR respecs.
Whenever you do a major patch, offer a respec. That too much to ask? Yes. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
244
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Posted - 2013.07.29 11:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:No it is not us who need to adapt or die anymore, its ccp. Weve been dealing with this game long enough and it gets worse the older it gets. We are done being misstreated and its evident with all the quiting posts on these forums. We are being directly abused, taunte, misstreated and robed of ourclasses with these "rebalncing" patxhes and were sick of it. We are fps gamers, not wannabe columbus in space and we will have compensation when the developers wrong us or there will be no more dust. Adapt or die, ccp While your thread started off being fairly decent, this post here has descended into the realm of whining and hyperbole.
Abused? Taunted? Mistreated? Robbed of your classes?
Not to troll, but that's a bit of a stretch considering the game is free to play, and you can leave at any time you desire, wouldn't you say?
You may call me a fanboy, couldn't be less bothered, but having played EVE for a fairly long time, they've taken a similar approach to development as EVE, and expect to see steady growth over the years, which I can't fault. The instant gratification crowd come and go, but CCP will probably retain a growing number of players that click with the game.
The game will always have balancing, rebalancing and more rebalancing, FOTM will come and go and return with a vengeance. That is a fact from the way CCP develops their games. If you feel that is unacceptableto you, you may actually have to seek entertainment elsewhere (I mean this in the nicest possible way). |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
252
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Posted - 2013.07.30 05:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:yeah your right. Why play now when your getting screwed over when you can be rewarded for not playing at all and come back later? deffenetly how dust is supposed to be played. Its sad that CCP is endorsing this way of thinking by nerfing the classes we play so we cant win, and forcing us to stay in them for months. A shame, i once enjoyed dust. back when i was good... btw check out my post were i qouted that dude above yours. Hes prolly off crying somewere
Exmaple Core wrote:. A shame, i once enjoyed dust. back when i was good... So you need a respec to be good again?
By the way, what's with all the needless hostility? Your posts were OK up until you started ranting. This kind of behaviour is just going to get the thread locked for ranting and CCP will not bother reading this. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
253
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Posted - 2013.07.30 05:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:Spec into what you love using, but first ask yourself,
"Do I love this setup because I kill a lot of people, or do I love this setup because I'd have fun even if it kept me from being the deadliest shot on the field?"
Invest in core skills, and you'll never go wrong. I think that's the difference in mentality between so-called 'competitive' and 'casual' players.
The 'video games are serious business and a second job' types want something that let's you kill lots of people, as that's the source of their fun.
The 'it's just a game, I'll play it to have fun and if I stop having fun I'll do something else' types are the ones that choose something that they have fun playing.
The difference in mentality is that some people can only have fun when they win (carebears) and some people just have fun throughout the process. Hence why EVE is being infested with carebears who do nothing but shoot red NPC crosses all day, since shooting other players present a risk of not doing well.
Dust can and SHOULD cater to both crowds. BUT, it should not PANDER to either of them. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
257
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Posted - 2013.07.31 03:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:You all know that this weak sauce cry baby ***t has lead to us losing something I paid for and after a hard core nerf nothing is offered? Dude the day Destiny touches down infinite diversity will get the delete button. These people are stupid if they think that they can take my money for boosters, and my money for the elite packs and my AURUM for things like fuse locus grenades which combined with my cpu reduction on my logi I can't even run, and I purchased 3000 of them, this is criminal, I am not even being offered an Aur refund? Who is advising you on your business model? Do you really think I will be retained as a customer? Do you think I will spend another 100 dollars on you? No, I will spend it on the game that doesn't change my entire setup on the whims of the owned....... I mean really I can't have my Aur back? You can't buy back these 3 thousand useless grenades? Ccp you are super fails, I believed in you I purchased your product and was ripped off......RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
LOL
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dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
258
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Posted - 2013.07.31 03:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:Cannibus Lecktor wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:Cannibus Lecktor wrote:Well then, cudos to you... Lets see if you feel the same way when you have to try to fit your calogi with the same equipment as other races with 40 less CPU, and im not refering to the Douvall rifle and 5 shield ext., Im talking about a core repair tool, an Ishkone nano, and an advanced injector, or maybe some droplinks... I could care less about the race bonus, but to give me a handicap of 40 CPU which by the way will be more like a 50 point handicap if you include the loss of 25% at proto lvl.. Logis cant be logis anymore? Sure you can, just not a caldari Logi, Those will become extinct and the suit will still be abused, people will just drop all of the equipment and use it as an assault... Like i said before, make game modes that are gear specific, then all you have are your core upgrades and skill.. I am by far not "great" at this game, but i hold my own and i play it for fun... Lately, the fun has been lacking and only frustration remains in its place.. So it will be great if you could respec out of your nerfed class and once again have the fun youve been lacking, and instead lack only the frustration of having a nerfed class. right? with a respec you could play a more viable class and have fun playing dust. right? So if everyone got their respec requests granted along with this guy, they could all spec into the same thing he does.
Great, since we're all clones let's all look alike too.
Everyone using the same thing = balance, right? |
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dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
259
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Posted - 2013.07.31 03:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:Everyone runs an AR anyways. And besides, you see his post, his class sucks and he can no longer compete because of his class getting nerfed. Its better he respec and go into another class, even if its played by everyone, than having to stay his pathetic class and be a non factor as he hates playing dust Everyone runs AR -> Look at all the Flaylock QQ's, Forge QQ's, tanker QQ's etc.
Sure, AR is the most common weapon, and to be honest I don't see too much of a problem with that since it's a staple in most FPS games and versatile but not particularly excelling in any particular role.
Look at his post? -> Look at his fit. Tell me he was using the logi suit as a logi focused on supporting his teammates.
He decided to use logi suit as an assault suit, and even after nerf, still wants to use it as one. The mentality of this kind of player is equivalent to someone walking in straight line, a wall shows up in his way eventually, and said person walking repeatedly into that wall wondering what has happened. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
259
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Posted - 2013.07.31 06:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:You are right. But he gos on to say he cant even deck it out as a logi. Also, his class was made to be an assault and a logi. OP? yes, but his class was changed to make a new role, whatever that is cuz aperantly nethire is viable, but he cant play it like an assault anymore, his class was changed from its original standing point. He should be respeced, he is not enjoying the change to his class, or dust anymore He says he can't deck it out as a logi, despite the countless replies saying that he should use it as a logi suit, which he disregards anyway? You're agreeing with that kind of response?
His class was NOT made to be an assault and a logi. The logistics suit was meant to be more of a supporting suit, and the equipment slots allow for more flexibility. It was never meant to be Assault suit + 2 equipment slots. Your point that his class was changed doesn't stand, because the logi suit itself was adjusted, but it still performs it basic function. The reason why people can't fit their equipment on them, if you check the fit, was because he fitted a shield tanked suit with 2 damage mods which are fittings intensive. Most likely (haven't check the fittings myself) a proto weapon etc.
And you're partially wrong there. He can still play it as an assault. Is it less effective than an actual assault? Well, of course it is, since it's actually called 'Logistics' rather than 'Assault'.
If he chose to spec into something OP, rather than because he enjoyed that weapon/dropsuit/role, then giving someone like him multiple respecs a year will make no difference to the forum whining: Respec 1: New FOTM CCP balancing Forum whining
Respec 2: New FOTM CCP balancing Forum whing
etc.
Do you see where I'm going with this? |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
262
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Yes but what you don't see is that this is about ccp losing customers, in doing so they have simultaneously nerfed many things the best killers in the game own with, check the top 1000 players and see how many use core flaylock, cal logi, fused/contact grenade, you will find that many do. While ccp has found it difficult to retain new players they found it necessary to drive top tier players away, after all you have so many more sp than post beta players, once you have at least thinned the herd it will become easier to get new players to stay. The next thing is the logis will have the built in repair bonus removed, this is why the amarr gained their low slot, they will soon need to use an armor repair module, this change will effectively make these suits combat ineffective.
IMO, CCP has stated before, that there are certain types of customers that try their games, fall in love and these people form a loyal fanbase that continues enjoying the game for a long time. On the other hand, there are certain people that their games don't appeal to, and these players will walk away after a short period of playing. CCP has stated that they've realized that losing these players is OK.
Balancing changes the way the suits work relative to each other, and forces evolving tactics, and this will become more and more apparent as more variety of suits and fittings are added into the game. If you don't enjoy that sort of thing, it's easy, go pick up one of those GENERIC FPS X+1 where everything stays the same throughout the lifecycle of the product (1-2 years give or take a few months), and the game will remain pretty much the same from release till when the servers are empty. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
262
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Posted - 2013.07.31 10:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Also iam tired of hearing these simpletons tlk about a role. This is something someoen else said and everyone jumps on a band wagon with. There is no role, there is only ability. No one cries on these forums about the proto sentinel sniper, assault rifle scout, logi anti vehicle, heavy dropship pilot, no one cries when another assault is using a rep tool on a heavy, this is not about roles, you ladies are crying because you get shot in the face over and over and over, to you its about failing, to ccp its about customers, new ones not old, and to us ALL it should be about ccp changing a dominant build that became to good, and it was changed inspite of consideration for those who spent money and time for sp on them, it should concern you all as a practice. You see I am just as upset about nerfing flaylocks though I don't use them, as I am about contact grenades which I use, but I understand unlike ccp who apparently doesn't play their own game very often, that both of these items increased as a balance to one another, because all we had to do was throw 2 fused grenades to end the core flaylock, simple direct balance, and yet becausenwe used thesenitems more then less they got nerfed, and you believe that? It just happened to coincide with the most successful combat suit being nerfed as well, and you believed that? Peak play time is about 40 thousand now and dropping everyday and you believed that? Full games harder to find? Matches half over more and more often when you enter the server, they decided to join ambush and oms together now and you still don't see that there is a floundering vessel listing to port throwing men overboard as it try to right it self? Fool!!!! Wake up.
Troll: Us 'simpletons' know to use decent spelling, and more importantly, some simple formatting so our rants don't look like massive blocks of text typed out by ADD kids.
Non-troll: OK, to use your term 'ability', CCP limited the so-called logi assaults' ability to perform both effective slayer and effective logistics, forcing them to choose being a sub par assault player (compared to an assault suit) or a decent logi. This is called 'balancing abilities'. No difference in the argument, unless you get too hung up on semantics.
You're upset about flaylocks even though you don't rely on them as a crutch? Why? Because you have nothing better to do? Or you just have an unpleasant disposition in general?
The rest of your crying is off-topic but I'll address them anyway:
Regarding your claim about 2 fused grenades as a balance against flaylocks.... Throwing 2 grenades against a flaylock user has the same effect has shooting said flaylock user... I don't even see how you can use that as an argument. Anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree with your contact nade nerf whine here. This thread is about respec etc.
'The most successful' combat suit was nerfed since they gave a player too many 'abilities' without a significant cost to those abilities, thus making other suits redundant to a certain extent. This is BAD for a game, and if you don't know why, well, you should try engaging your brain sometimes.
Your argument about peak play time being 40 thousand and dropping everyday? LOL this may seem to help your argument but 40K is the TOTAL number of players logged into Dust AND EVE, not Dust alone. Spouting numbers when you don't even know what they mean makes you look like an idiot. Please stop. Finally, the number of players in Dust peaks at around 5100 almost everyday. And when I make a claim, I actually have numbers to back them up. Also, using anecdotal evidence to back up and provide reasoning for your arguments? This one time, I killed a dual core flaylock, contact grenade wielding Cal logi assault player with my melee. Clearly those things are underpowered and melee is overpowered.
To your parting shot of 'Fool, wake up!!' I will not deign to lower myself a level of attempting to get my point across by insulting another person while thinking it makes my argument stronger and makes me look like an adult.
tl;dr Quit your crying, or at least cry on-topic |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
273
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Posted - 2013.08.02 06:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:damn, my respec thread turned into a tank thread What can you do eh? What starts off as a decent discussions turns into butthurt players insulting each other's FPS skills and correct/incorrect use of various terms.
Godwin is most likely around the corner as well |
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