In the right order:

1. They also amplify possibly insignificant balance issues, making reasonable balance harder to achieve and "nerfed into oblivion" scenarios more common.

2. A measure that could be fixed directly and and possibly easier without respecs as per my response to 1.

3. They alienate players whom value the "no respec" mentality and would take issue with such a step. (Leaving justification for either position aside for the sake of the argument)

4. Underutilized does not mean UP. There are other possible reasons for that and better metrics to assess relative power in a no respec environment.

Lastly there are other reasons against respecs, most of which have nothing/not much to do with FOTM chasing here, here, here, here, here and here.

It is often overlooked that the no respec mentality of CCP has as variety of reasons behind it and the subject is not done due justice if they are ignored.

CCP has stated earlier that a large part of the development of the market is monitoring player behavior after every intermediate feature is added (donation, isk transfer, later item trade etc.)

Putting respecs into this equation makes the whole thing volatile to no end. A temporary respec phase would invalidate all gathered data and CCP would risk damaging both economies if they merge them based on these false data.

And we know quite a bit about the basic functionality of the market. The planned eve dust connection pretty much predefined a range range of funcionality that will have to be definitely implemented or the feature can be scrapped altogether.

Lastly the market is only mentioned in one of those links iirc. Those are still standing.

How about a full reset. Sounds good to me. (BTW I have 10 mil SP)

Not so much that its OP but after the respec everyone went to it even though they knew it would get nerfed

I had to, I looked at it and thought and thought then decided wasn't worth the chance if you can see it coming why not avoid it?

No, if you give more SP to ppl everyone will be able to do everything as oppossed to giving respecs so ppl can refine their class, whatever they choose, and be very efficient at one class. Giving everyone an insaine amount of SP reduces the demand for speced players

if you like to blow **** up, then get a ******* mass driver and some remote explosives... if you like to head shot people, get a sniper rifle... simple

and then one of the huge things for this game goes right out the window. Your choices mean nothing if they have no permanence. without consequence, choice is meaningless. its like handing out trophies to all the kids for participation.

so what you are saying is that the mass driver/grenade launcher might no longer shoot explosive rounds, and remote explosives might now blow up into confetti, and sniper rifles might end up as glorified laser pointers?

dude... you pick the weapons and suits that fit your play style, simple...

if you dont know what you want to pick, invest into your core skills that are not weapon, suit, or module specific... because those will never be wasted sp

i have... started using the laser last month... works amazing with the right squad or with the right side arm... try what classes? i dont see any that are underpowered... only those who are being misused

Well, unless assault rifles get modified to shoot lasers or grenades, or lasers become burstfire etc. I do not see how the 'basic function' of whatever chosen will change. Mostly number tweaking, which does not equate to a change to fundamental basics of the game.

well... the fact that a logi suit is made as a support role to back up and not really get in the line of fire. yes... you can make major points with a needle and a rep tool. if you came in a battle with a logi suit expecting to get kills, then it is misuse

that would be careless spending of sp then

i dont now what the second paragraph really has to do with what i said... other than. if you are the OP chaser, then this isnt the game for you, if you wanna think outside the box and rely on a squad and let the squad rely on you and learn to adapt to each change to maximize potential of a "nerfed" class (i put that in quotes since i still dont see how anything is under powered if they are used right) then stick with it....

lasers got nerfed? ever see a laser logi with a mass driver assault come at you? they drop your shield in a snap then boom explosive damage, you dead...

i dont really see these "nerfs" as nerfs... i see them as a chance think outside the box and catch others by surprise

adapt or die

if you havent played eve for a decent amount of time, then its hard to explain how CCP does things.

it could have been buffed for many reasons... maybe it was buffed to allow more breaking of its class... maybe they want people to get more kills and not have to focus on support as much.

is something underpowered when you can reach the top of the leaderboard in it if you use it as intended? or are you just using it outside its intended use but with a bad layout?

i put stuff on my suit that most would not expect and it goes good with my playstyle. most with the same meduim suit have 150 to 300 more hp then i. more damage, more shield regan... but i put a specific module and sacrificed all the just for a simple boost to my personal preference in my tactics...

i think they didnt research what they were getting into

thats the nature of CCP games... they arent hurting for a player base... they built one slowly in EVE and they know it will be the same in dust. many will leave because they do not like the "adapt or die" model. but that is just what is gonna happen.

they will have a steady growth of very dedicated players while 10 times that amount will try and quit, do to the harshness and complexity that is put on the table in front of them...

in the beginning they may grant your wishes of a respec, but sooner or later, they will throw you into New Eden and it will be "adapt or die".

so... might as well get used to it lol

ok... and i play with my suit outside of its role... i have no side arm and less effective hp then most other logi's... i gain a bonus to hacking, and an equipment slot... i do very well on average... i wont tell you how i play outside my role or it may give away my exact layout... but i play one of the least "combative" medium suits in the game and use it otherwise... think outside the box...

i guess we will see... CCP has already broken new ground with EVE, they have broken new ground with Dust, and they will continue to do so... i like the "adapt or die" model... therefore myself and many others i know would stay and probably pay.... many im assuming like yourself will move on... but thats just the nature of CCP games... like i said... better get used to it or this may turn out not to be the right FPS for you... no offense... its true though... for many of its players

F2P games tend to live off from the 10% of dedicated players that pay for the rest of them. The number of players is not as important as the willingness to spend money of those who can.

There has been a thread somewhere here that showed that numerous players bought packs, boosters and AUR worth several hundred dollars in just a few months.

Not necessarily. The more targeted your appraoch, the smaller the potential player base (that we all agree on). But the more targeted the player base the higher the rate of "perfect match" customers that basically have nowhere else to go and lose any interest in the competitions offerings.

Those are the people that play an MMO for a decade straight without any sign of wear. Those are the guys that pay thousands upon thousands of dollars to improve their experience because they identify the product as part of their everyday life and as a worthwhile area to invest money into.

You can target a very general group of people to maximize player count and viral effectiveness. But the more general the group your product appeals to, the less is this product able to satisfy each of the subsets your general group is composed of.

The consequence is a general loss of long term retention and less incentive to invest money that has to be offset by having a large number of players that, on average, spend less.

A handful of players (in relative terms) that pays more on average for longer periods of time, yes.

Probably. That's how p2p games used to work at least.
Judging by the things they done in the game - long TTK, RPG elemts, no custom servers, no spectator, no respecs etc. p.p and my general experience with them as a developer i'm inclined to say yes. Dust tries to target a specific subset of console FPS players with game design choices that no other game in this huge market has dared to make so far.

And just to for clarity. The goal is to get a larger relative part of the playerbase to spend than in other games, not the same small percentage to spend more. I'm not talking about literally ten people paying half their salary for AUR tanks.

Yes. That's why i'm puzzled that there's not even any sign of vanity items or customization within the game.

And efforts to increase the playerbase are fine and important. I just think that certain actions might, in the long run, do more harm than good by washing out the games identity and thus USP.

True. That could be alleviated by simply giving limited option for color combinations. Even tiered offerings are possible.

Tier one: A wide variety of flat colors for a very minor AUR cost.
Tier two: Colors with a selection of overlay patterns.
Tier three: Coloring of individual segments (excluding class displaying areas)
Tier four: All of the above applicable to all corp members for the largest cost.

The last tier could possibly allow for full rgb color palettes that are pre approved by devs (to filter out wierd combinations and as a service to avoid mimicing). The demand will naturally be comparatively low and, based on the AUR cost, could still be worth the effort.
The problem with 3rd person is always the ability of "peeking" around corners with the camera. I think this alone could be a no-go in a game that tries to appeal to competitive players.

Edit: fixed fail quoting

I think those of you who mention quitting, should stop making threats and just quit. Eve grew at a very slow pace, even though millions have tried and quit. but CCP kept it going, and now there is nothing to compare to the magnitude of what heppens in Eve. in fact, they just made BBC news today.

I know plenty of people who like this "adapt or die" about Dust, how you will not get a respec, to think ahead before you invest SP on whether you are investing it on yourself, or investing it into you K/D ratio...

they have a small team, they aren't a giant corporation. they dont need a huge amount of players to pay to keep operating... BF does, COD does, Halo does, but not Dust... there is like 10% of the team that those companies have working on dust...

you can keep telling yourself that they will not make enough to keep dust going but they will...

you can keep saying that all the players will leave, but they wont. there will always be the ones who are curious to see where it goes, and there will always be the ones who know where its going...

This is not a just a mindless FPS. this is a thinking man's game, and it will remain that way.

its not my fault if you didnt think ahead and chose the "best" weapon or suit at the time. you didnt think ahead to the consequences of using that too your advantage.... shoulda invest SP into yourself and not your K/D

ok... i will... i think ill live, and so will all the people i play with, who enjoy the way CCP works... stop threatening... just do it... come back later.... or dont... someone else will take your position

nope... i just think, if you cant adapt... then this isnt for you. Respec is dumb. shoulda did more research.

um yes... i predict the future all the time... but it doesnt always happen the way i predict it... not sure if you know the definition...

i need a respec... sorry. go back to COD and BF3

I can not only argue with this. I can dismiss it out right.

I love seeing tears like this. I really hope CCP just ignores all thee tears, collects them for later enjoyment maybe, and just continues without respecs.

Respecs are for lesser people in other shooters.

Just people drinking some awesome koolaid apparently.

Notice how all of the people arguing against respecs are non factors in npc corps or corps that could never compete in PC?

The fundamental argument.

Is this an FPS or an RPG?

It's not "competitive vs casual" it's "those who feel that respecs are breaking vital game mechanics vs. those who feel that those mechanics shouldn't matter"

Stop willfully ignoring that people have put up worthwhile points on the subject and making this a mudd throwing concept. And i'm a cal logi myself so yet another strawman burns down.

That's a good question and i answer it's both. The SP system is clearly a RPG mechanic. Respecs make this mechanic void. Unless we are fine with effectively removing this mechanic altogether respecs are out of question in my opinion.

*snip* quote limit
You are picking out the weakest argument there is, spice it up with some nice hyperbole and keep smashing as if this is all that the SP system is supposed to do and does.

Have a look here, here, here, here, here and here for reasons that are largely independent from the whole FOTM rambling that is going on here. It gets tiring when you have to repeat yourself countless times so i have picked a few good pieces to refer to.

Yeah a lot of corps that got run out of PC say that.

"She didn't dump me... I broke up with her!"

(just kidding there)

Anyways... the fact remains... these kinds of changes can hurt PC players fairly significantly. And will only encourage the burn out we're already seeing. Is it worth alienating people who want to play competitively just because some pub match role-players are inconvenienced?

Watching CCP kill Dust all by itself is amazing. Why did you bring this game on console since you have no clue how the console community reacts.

Stop developing on the PS3 put Dust on PC. It's obvious you don't want this market. Your Eve PC ways of doing things don't work here. I love you CCP for Eve, but the Eve mentality will not work on console.
Repecs would save you so many headaches but you refuse to bend cuz if the EVE policy.

You will be left the EVE players in the end if you continue on this path of destruction.

We will all mourn and lose sleep over the loss of so many players... 5000-6000 players down to 2000 players who dont complain about everything... sounds good to me

Because infantry cried OP and refused to use teamwork to take them out until it got to a point where you can solo them without any skill required while on the otherhand AV got buffed

90% of the playerbase didnt use tanks, they all ran proto infantry and complained when a tank would kill them but wouldnt swap out to AV and even try to do so

So what happened? Turrets nerfed, small and large nerfed, missiles/railguns nerfed, mods nerfed, resistances nerfed, speed mods nerfed, passive resistance mods nerfed, skills nerfed, pg nerfed, turret damage nerfed, skills removed, mods removed, AV buff

It happened in BF3 to where majority of vehicles in the game are a joke and can be soloed by a player