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Haerr wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Haerr wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Appia Nappia wrote:

aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection.

If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good?

If we agree that hit detection is indeed the real issue and not aim assist then would you agree to enabling aim assist on mouse as a band-aid for the (very) poor hit detection all Dust players suffer?
Keep in mind that it is already on for any mouse user that is using a GIMX or Eagle Eye or XIM. Only the minority of players that are playing with a mouse connected directly to the PS3 is put at a disadvantage by not having the "hit detection band-aid that is aim assist".
(Mind you hit detection is far from the only issue while playing with the mouse.)

Personally I would prefer aim assist to be disabled.

If the problem is with the controls, fix the controls.

If the problem is with hit detection and network latency, enhance the measures taken compensate for these problems so that all users gain the benefit.

Aim assist being suggested for mouse as a way of compensating for poor core mechanics and poor mouse support.

Clearly all focus ought to be on aim assist, right guys? Roll

Shirley there exists some benefit to KB/M in Dust. If all it offered were disadvantages, why would it ever be used?

For me it's about familiarity, having only played FPS games with a mouse trying to play one with a controller is a bad experience for me as I am really really hilariously bad with a controller.

The other guys I know who have played Dust with a mouse have either switched to a controller if they've felt comfortable enough with it, or bought a GIMX / Eagle Eye / XIM, or stopped playing Dust and gone back to playing FPS games on the computer.

Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1790	Posted - 2014.10.05 18:57:00 - [23071] - Quote The AA isn't the problem with the aiming mechanics. The acceleration and movement of the cursor is the biggest issue IMO. There is little difference between 0 and 100 sensitivity. I notice almost no difference in the ability to "fine tune" my aim. You move the DS stick 20% and it causes the reticle to move 100% of its speed. I saw a HUGE improvement to my ability to aim with the stick extenders because it allowed me to utilize that 20% a lot better. Test it for yourself, see if you can find the point at which you stick stops creating acceleration and its movement is slow and steady. Its nearly impossible to find and maintain. There has been no other game that basically required me to put them on. The issue with the stick extenders is they cause my thumbs to cramp after about 2 or 3 games; its just not very ergonomic. I used the mouse for a long time but you can't develop muscle memory for it (because CCP forces acceleration), so I stopped that as well. In summary its not the AA, is the mechanics of reticule movement itself. We have to rely on AA because the ability to fine tune and build muscle memory isn't possible. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 245	Posted - 2014.10.05 19:06:00 - [23072] - Quote I think aim assist is fine as it is. I don't see any reason to remove it. There is a reason for aim assist on console shooters. Control sticks are not suited to fine aiming. Instead of forcing players to fight with an unwieldy control method aim assist allows people to focus on playing the game; strategy, tactics, reactions, positioning, movement and awareness. Much more fun than just who can fight with the controls the best.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4602	Posted - 2014.10.05 19:07:00 - [23073] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: The AA isn't the problem with the aiming mechanics. The acceleration and movement of the cursor is the biggest issue IMO. There is little difference between 0 and 100 sensitivity. I notice almost no difference in the ability to "fine tune" my aim. You move the DS stick 20% and it causes the reticle to move 100% of its speed. Test it for yourself, see if you can find the point at which you stick stops creating acceleration and its movement is slow and steady. Its nearly impossible to find and maintain. I saw a HUGE improvement to my ability to aim with the stick extenders because it allowed me to utilize that 20% a lot better. There has been no other game that basically required me to put the them on. The issue with the stick extenders is they cause my thumbs to cramp after about 2 or 3 games; its just not very ergonomic. I used the mouse for a long time but you can't develop muscle memory for it (because CCP forces acceleration), so I stopped that as well. In summary its not the AA, is the mechanics of reticule movement itself. We have to rely on AA because the ability to fine tune and build muscle memory isn't possible. I found the ds4 to make a difference as well. It took me awhile to get used to it, because I would partially move the stick expecting the 100 percent movement, and would end up getting killed because I under aimed. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3988	Posted - 2014.10.05 19:39:00 - [23074] - Quote The Aim Assist isn't the problem. Or at least, we can't diagnose it as the problem yet. Why? Because mechanics are still wonky. When you shoot the air that's clearly beside the person and it kills them anyway? That's not Aim Assist, that's fundamental mechanics being banjaxed. When you're gunning someone down and they run behind cover but your bullets hit anyway? Not Aim Assist, that's horked mechanics. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4717	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:10:00 - [23075] - Quote Banjaxed KRRROOOOOOM
I do SUCK Sucks Sweat Shop.. 163	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:42:00 - [23076] - Quote https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PirVtiJuvDs My name hurts my feelings
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4605	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:49:00 - [23077] - Quote I do SUCK wrote: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PirVtiJuvDs For a second I thought this was a random post, then it all made sense. You can always tell a Millford Minja
mollerz 5437	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:44:00 - [23078] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Banjaxed +1 I'm seriously fukn serious
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3994	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:45:00 - [23079] - Quote Did the thread just break for anyone else? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4721	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:04:00 - [23080] - Quote Spademan wrote: Did the thread just break for anyone else? No just you Forum can't handle The Spade KRRROOOOOOM

Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1584	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:07:00 - [23081] - Quote The AA is fairly OK where it is. Dust has less AA than many other shooters. And you say that now Appia, but in a months time you'd be complaining about all the noob tubes people are using because they can't aim. We could take away AA completely, and find many other ways to make the game unnecessarily hard. And then we can finally get all these other ****** players out of our game and have a nice big circle jerk as they close the servers due to inactivity. We'll bang, OK?
Appia Nappia 1213	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:38:00 - [23082] - Quote aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. And the Mass Driver doesn't have the DPS to be used like that unless it's a squad spaming them together (oh 1.4, those were some good times in PC) So very tired
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5510	Posted - 2014.10.06 03:17:00 - [23083] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17129	Posted - 2014.10.06 05:44:00 - [23084] - Quote Well I am just saying the bolt pistol "feels" right functionally The smooth buttery goodness of lining up the shot, the charge time, then release and kick to the second shot is perfect, the limited magazine forces you to make your shots count. The numbers and excessively higher ease of use is making it outshine scrambler pistols and Ions. Adjusting hipfire and aim assistances would be a good first step if I had to balance it. Second steps would be probably the reload before finally going after the dps most primarily the base damage. If I had to balance it that is, I am not, so that is my current opinion on it. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
Appia Nappia 1213	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:46:00 - [23085] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? At this point in time? meh, it hurts the Alpha Damage weapons: Shotgun, Nova Knives, and Bolt Pistol The first two have slowly had their AA increased to help with hit detection, you can tell. It's a reason more people use it now, it's not as hard to use as it was before because of the AA. We all noticed the improved hit detection, but you can really feel the reticle being pulled on the shotgun now (post 1.7) than you could during hyper-AA days Bolt is a new addition. It would become the new hard-more. You'd die more than before because you'd expect a kill and do no damage while lacking the clip size to recover from a miss. . . . which is the current state of affair with the charge sniper rifle. Hit detection on that suuuuuucks. It would also hurt the other pistols but not that bad. Ion still has some big dispersion so past 15m you'd feel it. Flaylock, Sniper Rifle, Swarm Launcher, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, and Forge Gun would be unaffected. Assault variants of rifles wouldn't feel it much, burst would be a coin flip, breach would be hurting, Tactical is surprisingly less affected than the breach. Last month when Destiny came out and people noticed the really strong AA in that game, I was discussing which was more fun. When using DPS weapons, lower AA is more fun for everyone. It's less twitchy and more skill based. When using Alpha weapons, higher AA is more fun because it means you won't have false hits. So for me, personally, my preference for weapons are sniper rifles > speed builds > explosives/anything with a parabolic arc > Shotguns > Stealth builds > trolling. So, my primary preference in DUST doesn't have AA, my secondary isn't viable in my preferred game mode and would be strengthened by removal of AA, my tertiary isn't affected by AA, my fourth is- very much so- but trading longer life for a gamble of killing or not would be better for me. My fifth is more forgiving if I get caught and try to run away, and sixth is too variable. Iggy's mentioning of really bad precision changes on the left analogue: Wolfman seriously **** up the controls when moving from Chromosome to Uprising. We never got back the smoothness we had then, though its close enough and has been long enough that most have forgotten. Ugh. CCP working on DUST should be an example to every single intro to X language, Save backups and put in comments on all your work or you'll ** up like these guys. Nothing good about Uprising. Only good parts came from months after it was released. All those things could have been added or changed in Chromo So very tired
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 734	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:04:00 - [23086] - Quote I was under the impression that shotguns didn't have AA, guess I was wrong. Now I have no excuse for being so terrible with them. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Appia Nappia 1214	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:12:00 - [23087] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: I was under the impression that shotguns didn't have AA, guess I was wrong. Now I have no excuse for being so terrible with them. Shotgun is so ****** up in this game. Sometime it acts like a weapon with pellet spread, other times it's like a Kamehameha and anything hit by part of the blast is hit by all of the blast. Both are noticeable when firing it near 2 enemies. Sometimes the one in the back that you've "locked on" to takes all the damage and sometimes there is partial damage applied to both. Also, Kamehameha is in chrome's dictionary. I just learned this. So very tired
Haerr Clone Manque 1564	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:33:00 - [23088] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? If we agree that hit detection is indeed the real issue and not aim assist then would you agree to enabling aim assist on mouse as a band-aid for the (very) poor hit detection all Dust players suffer? Keep in mind that it is already on for any mouse user that is using a GIMX or Eagle Eye or XIM. Only the minority of players that are playing with a mouse connected directly to the PS3 is put at a disadvantage by not having the "hit detection band-aid that is aim assist". (Mind you hit detection is far from the only issue while playing with the mouse.) Personally I would prefer aim assist to be disabled. If the problem is with the controls, fix the controls. If the problem is with hit detection and network latency, enhance the measures taken compensate for these problems so that all users gain the benefit. Taking the decision of making a band-aid fix available only for one control scheme takes some seriously specialized logic to arrive at. Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Haerr Clone Manque 1564	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:38:00 - [23089] - Quote Hmm. Aim assist being suggested for mouse as a way of compensating for poor core mechanics and poor mouse support. Clearly all focus ought to be on aim assist, right guys? Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5513	Posted - 2014.10.06 12:52:00 - [23090] - Quote Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? ... taking the decision of making a band-aid fix available only for one control scheme takes some seriously specialized logic to arrive at. I don't know that I agree with you here, good sir. Imagine if your laptop had dual analog sticks instead of a touchpad. Or worse ... imagine if you had to use the Thinkpad's red button thingy. Point being, arguments might be made in that a mouse has its advantages :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Haerr Clone Manque 1569	Posted - 2014.10.06 13:30:00 - [23091] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? ... taking the decision of making a band-aid fix available only for one control scheme takes some seriously specialized logic to arrive at. I don't know that I agree with you here, good sir. Imagine if your laptop had dual analog sticks instead of a touchpad. Or worse ... imagine if you had to use the Thinkpad's red button thingy. Point being, arguments might be made in that a mouse has its advantages :-) All true, but then context ought to count for something. In Dust, arguments might be made in that a mouse has its disadvantages :-) Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5515	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:02:00 - [23092] - Quote Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? ... taking the decision of making a band-aid fix available only for one control scheme takes some seriously specialized logic to arrive at. I don't know that I agree with you here, good sir. Imagine if your laptop had dual analog sticks instead of a touchpad. Or worse ... imagine if you had to use the Thinkpad's red button thingy. Point being, arguments might be made in that a mouse has its advantages :-) All true, but then context ought to count for something. In Dust, arguments might be made in that a mouse has its disadvantages :-) There must exist some benefit to KB/M in Dust. If all it offered were disadvantage, why would it ever be used? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Haerr Clone Manque 1571	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:31:00 - [23093] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? If we agree that hit detection is indeed the real issue and not aim assist then would you agree to enabling aim assist on mouse as a band-aid for the (very) poor hit detection all Dust players suffer? Keep in mind that it is already on for any mouse user that is using a GIMX or Eagle Eye or XIM. Only the minority of players that are playing with a mouse connected directly to the PS3 is put at a disadvantage by not having the "hit detection band-aid that is aim assist". (Mind you hit detection is far from the only issue while playing with the mouse.) Personally I would prefer aim assist to be disabled. If the problem is with the controls, fix the controls. If the problem is with hit detection and network latency, enhance the measures taken compensate for these problems so that all users gain the benefit. Aim assist being suggested for mouse as a way of compensating for poor core mechanics and poor mouse support. Clearly all focus ought to be on aim assist, right guys? Shirley there exists some benefit to KB/M in Dust. If all it offered were disadvantages, why would it ever be used? For me it's about familiarity, having only played FPS games with a mouse trying to play one with a controller is a bad experience for me as I am really really hilariously bad with a controller. The other guys I know who have played Dust with a mouse have either switched to a controller if they've felt comfortable enough with it, or bought a GIMX / Eagle Eye / XIM, or stopped playing Dust and gone back to playing FPS games on the computer. Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Haerr Clone Manque 1571	Posted - 2014.10.06 15:32:00 - [23094] - Quote Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: aim assist is a crutch for poor hit detection. If you're right, then wouldn't turning it off do more harm than good? If we agree that hit detection is indeed the real issue and not aim assist then would you agree to enabling aim assist on mouse as a band-aid for the (very) poor hit detection all Dust players suffer? Keep in mind that it is already on for any mouse user that is using a GIMX or Eagle Eye or XIM. Only the minority of players that are playing with a mouse connected directly to the PS3 is put at a disadvantage by not having the "hit detection band-aid that is aim assist". (Mind you hit detection is far from the only issue while playing with the mouse.) Personally I would prefer aim assist to be disabled. If the problem is with the controls, fix the controls. If the problem is with hit detection and network latency, enhance the measures taken compensate for these problems so that all users gain the benefit. Aim assist being suggested for mouse as a way of compensating for poor core mechanics and poor mouse support. Clearly all focus ought to be on aim assist, right guys? Shirley there exists some benefit to KB/M in Dust. If all it offered were disadvantages, why would it ever be used? For me it's about familiarity, having only played FPS games with a mouse trying to play one with a controller is a bad experience for me as I am really really hilariously bad with a controller. The other guys I know who have played Dust with a mouse have either switched to a controller if they've felt comfortable enough with it, or bought a GIMX / Eagle Eye / XIM, or stopped playing Dust and gone back to playing FPS games on the computer. But back on the topic of aim assist vs controls and core mechanics (hit detection, latency compensation...). Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5516	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:15:00 - [23095] - Quote Haerr wrote: But back on the topic of aim assist vs controls and core mechanics (hit detection, latency compensation...). I'd assumed HD mechanics to be beyond the scope of server-side tweak. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Alder King 88	Posted - 2014.10.06 16:58:00 - [23096] - Quote I always prefer the nipple over the touch pad on laptops when usb mouse out flat surface is unavailable Also didn't know haerr's name was Shirley What's the point in banning someone when they have 30 accounts?
Alder King 88	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:01:00 - [23097] - Quote And laser rifle is crap. ELM is ok. Viziam is awesome if the map has a place to use it on. What's the point in banning someone when they have 30 accounts?
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4728	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:48:00 - [23098] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: But back on the topic of aim assist vs controls and core mechanics (hit detection, latency compensation...). I'd assumed HD mechanics to be beyond the scope of server-side tweak. PS: Trying out the Laser Rifle. Invested SP to Op III. As best I can tell, this is an exceptionally terrible weapon :-) Preheat the Laser by aiming at something besides a personGÇª then surprise Grilled Heavy Melt KRRROOOOOOM
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5519	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:25:00 - [23099] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: But back on the topic of aim assist vs controls and core mechanics (hit detection, latency compensation...). I'd assumed HD mechanics to be beyond the scope of server-side tweak. PS: Trying out the Laser Rifle. Invested SP to Op III. As best I can tell, this is an exceptionally terrible weapon :-) Preheat the Laser by aiming at something besides a personGÇª then surprise Grilled Heavy Melt Have tried. Using ELM btw. The only thing I've succeeded in preheating is my heat gauge :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3999	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:28:00 - [23100] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Haerr wrote: But back on the topic of aim assist vs controls and core mechanics (hit detection, latency compensation...). I'd assumed HD mechanics to be beyond the scope of server-side tweak. PS: Trying out the Laser Rifle. Invested SP to Op III. As best I can tell, this is an exceptionally terrible weapon :-) Preheat the Laser by aiming at something besides a personGÇª then surprise Grilled Heavy Melt I prefer to use other non heavy enemies to preheat my laser rifle for heavy killing. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community



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