soooo anyone else disappointed that the amar scout is not wearing a trench coat

What does an assault do that cannot be done better by another suit?

Amarr Assault + ScR
(but that's about it)

For the record, I'm in favor of buffing Assaults.
It'll mean fewer Mercs running Scout as front-line slayers.

An altogether different path would involve swapping the proposed Amarr Ferroscale/Reactive Bonus for a Range Extender Bonus and scrapping the Second Bonuses of Gallente and Caldari (we'd keep the First Bonus redirected from innate to module as proposed).

I don't want to break anything here, and I suspect a nerf this large just might. Do you think this would be too hard a hit to Gal and Cal to do at once? If not, would you propose the Minmatar keep the three suggested bonuses (Hacks, Knives, Biotics)? If so, how can we justify Gal / Cal having one bonus?

3.) Buffing Assaults.

All you have to do to give assaults a place is to give people a REASON to run them.

Right now, nobody runs them because anything an assault can do, a scout can do better (With more scans, cloaking etc.). This is the EXACT same problem scouts had a while back (Anything we could do, a logi could do better).

The Assault : 593 HP

I would support buffing Assault HP over Buffing Assault Regen.

The problem with giving Assaults DPS bonus is that DPS is too intertwined with the Heavy Frame. The Sentinel has the highest DPS weapon, at close range, and the Commando get a straight bonus to damage.

Giving Assaults a bonus to DPS would mean the difference between an Assault and a Commando would be Assaults have versatility in fitting options, while Commando has inherent HP

What do you feel about Amarr having the range, Gallente having dampeners, CA having precision and MM get better at hacking and running.

I am not too comfortable with giving the CA both range and precision supremacy, I believe you have to make a choice.

You could be right. There's also a chance it'll crash-and-burn.
If we can solve the problem without taking the risk, why take the risk?

On "light armor" Amarr, apparently you and Rattati are on the same page.
What do you think of a decent bonus to Biotics?

What if range was a high slot?

Cal without a bonus could still have the best range but would have to sacrifice precision.

Amarr with a 25% range boost and 2 range amps wouuld make them really good mid precision scanner and could still fit 3 dampeners and a reactive plate

min could run a precision range codebreaker (if codebreakers also moved to high) and still fit 3 dampeners.

I know on my gal scout I would then run 1 range and 1 precision on my ADV/PROTO leaving me with 1-2 low slots for kincats, reactives or cardiac.

I know not that great but like the codebreakers more scout mods need balanced out of the low slots.

The thing with E-war is at this point it is all messed up. The gal outmatches the cal quite easily and in those circumstances I lose my e-war and go EHP tanking. If I can't pick them up I'm going full slayer scout. At this point all people are doing are picking up other cal and min scouts. Oh and that poor bastard in his Amarr.

Honestly I'd buff the hell out of the minmatar's regen. I can live with being blind but the regen on the suit is just terrible. With the cal scout with one regulator if I escape with 1 hp in shields by the time my feet hit the ground after a bunny hop my shields are recharging. I'm back to full health in about 5 seconds. The min scout suffers from low health and terrible regen. If the cal scout is supposed to be a low ehp scanner, the min scout should be a regenerative brawler. As of right now the Cal has regen, tank, and ewar. That's why it's a near perfect suit it's got the trifecta. I'd give the Minmatar the Caldari's deplete/recharge and recharge rate.

Though the problem of low EHP and terrible regen is honestly a problem on all the Min suits.

As for the Amarr, mehhhh. Can't say much there. The mimicing of the 2/4 gallente layout is silly. Personally I'd change the layout for starters to make it more unique if it wasn't getting the scan bonus. 1/5. There's a place for the brick tanked scout.

I'm tending to agree...I don't think I'm particularly good about theorising on what should work and what shouldn't, but if we're saying precision is OP, then you have to ditch it as a bonus completely. Personally as I've said before I think precision is useless without range, but ATEOTD, maybe it just needs ditching.

Of course this causes problems with role-defining bonuses then for Gal because what's the point of the innate Gal damp bonus if they no longer have a natural counter, and we are already struggling with role-defining bonuses for the Amarr. But you also I believe make the minja viable...so you kind of break gal and fix minja. Which seems kind of crap for those who specced into Gal.

We want everyone to have 2 bonuses, please suggest another bonus for the GA.

The range of the CA, that's where I was playing around with the max range reached by other scouts with many lows. I wanted to beat the maximum range reached by others, but that may be a fallacy. I agree with comparing to Active scanners, but how favorably, in this case less than active scanners because the scout precision is better than active scanners?

Is it not then fallacy to establish max passive scans to be below active and instead at equal or above? I know that brings back the GA logi, but why not?

I said it before and I'll say it again, 2 damps plus a cloak should be all that's needed to dodge the best scanner and best precision out there.

Honestly if it were up to me I'd throw away the gallente's damp bonus and the caldari's precision bonus. No scout suit should have them. Here we are balancing E-War for a 3rd time and the gallente is going to end up OP in some way or whatever scan scout is going to end up OP.

I hate to say it but I miss the days of the scannerinas. This precision v dampening crap we've got going on is ridiculous.

Such terrible choices. You can't give one scout an efficacy bonus and the other three inherent bonuses. Using your example, either you'd either have to give Amarr a straight up inherent bonus to speed or melee or stamina or change it so the other bonuses are towards scan range amp efficacy and codebreaker efficacy. Of course, if you give the Amarr scout a bonus to speed or melee it interferes with the Minmatar scout's thing and if you give it a bonus to stamina we're right where we started. On the flip side, if it doesn't make sense that the highest EHP and slowest scout would have bonuses towards biotic efficacy from a game design perspective.

Varoth Drac, I don't know you very well so I'm not sure if you know me. But Scoutly play in PC, number crunching, and figuring out the most effective fits is kinda my thing. You're Amarr and Caldari hypothetical builds, neither of them are the most effective way of playing those suits

Shotty was running around in a Cal-Scan suit using 2 of the long range active scanners. In pubs that range certainly is impressively strong and I'd definitely use a similar build with the C/1-Series suit because of the utility. It just isn't the "OP FotM" fit.

I like how the amarr has the versatility for the suit you proposed, and I've used something similar on the Gal, I just don't have enough fitting allocation to have those suits. I've basically got 30 suits I use in PC. delete them after a battle, make 30 pub suits that shy away from proto in everything except sniping and AV. Then rinse and repeat.

Let's look at using a 25% baseline, 35% baseline, and a 50% baseline (with module at 45%)

25% / 35% / 50%
Base Range (m): 20 / 20 / 20
Lv 5 skills (m): 30 / 30 / 30
Lv 5 racial (m): 37.5 / 40.5 / 45
1 complex mod (m): 46.9 / 54.7 / 65.3
2 complex mod (m) : 57.1 / 71.3 / 90.8

Feel free to check my math. Personally I feel 25% gives too little progression, and it does seem that 50% is a bit indulgent.

i agree with you. but any changes to scouts are changes that affect us all. so it matters. the same way it matters what infantry think when changes are made to vehicles. unless you prefer to not be consulted when those changes come around?

I've bumped into a few dual-tanked CalScouts since Charlie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okhys0JvHmc

Though heavily armored GalScouts seem to be more common.

I'm inclined to agree. Build diversity is healthy, and Assaults are currently afforded precisely zero reason to ever use a Range Extender. If it paid them utility comparable to that of plates or reps, perhaps they'd use it in pubs (though I strongly doubt they'd use it in PC).

That said, I'm under the impression from Cross here that Logis are the suits in need of hugs ... namely something they can be made good at which won't overlap too far into the role of an existing specialist.

Assaults are exceptionally good in their role at the moment (kicking arse) ... do they actually need free hugs?

For radar--directional should only show if your scan precision is 60% or lower of their profile

So scout with max skills can directional an unskilled heavy but nothing else, sees everything else as a dot that is 36 db or over

Am scout with a prec. of 17 can directional anything 28.3 db or over

Will really add some more balance to the game and hopefully cease the endless flow of scrubby tears.

Also gives reason to run precision other than just picking up scouts.

Scout QQ is a lot about scouts being relevant in a way they were not between 1.0 and 1.8.

I don't like the idea of side arm only scouts, even though that is what I run. It completely invalidates the shotgun scout, which is a valid play style, sniper scouts and others.

Most light weapons do not deal alpha damage, so when it comes to light weapons fights scouts will always be at a disadvantage.

Light frames are worthless, and nerfing scouts to give them a use is not really buffing them. They lack the bonuses that make scout frames useful.

I get that there may be problems with scouts, but I am not always on board with what that issue is.

We can't really out assault an assault, or out logi a logi (except for maybe std level?).

If scouts were so OP, everyone in PC would run them, but from what I am hearing PC is nothing but Heavies and Logis.

I think the QQ comes down to having more scouts than before, and having them be more viable.

If after everyone has spent their SP from this recent event we are still not seeing more Assaults, we need to try and understand why, and it may be a weakness in Assaults and not a scout problem, or it may simply be an issue with armor plates on scouts, which can be addressed without nerfing every other scout that doesn't run plates to begin with.

o7 Varoth

If the stats show that Shotgun+Scout+Cloak are causing problems (which I believe to be the case) then we should certainly do something about it. I could get behind a shotgun overhaul. It is unacceptable that mercs can literally hop out of optimal range, and we've already given up the Alpha component, with Pro Assaults now requiring 3 blasts to kill. I personally kinda like your suggestion.

Another idea might be to prolong the Shotgun's "draw time" so it wouldn't be immediately at-the-ready upon decloak.

I'm still seeing large numbers of HP tanking scouts with rifles.
Indeed, I recently encountered a full squad of Calscouts with combat rifles and a Galscout with some obscene armour total.

Thoughts?

Nobody respond to this thread please... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2399216#post2399216

Id like to see it die a painful death.

I think it has a lot to do with how limited scouts were prior to even the stats release for 1.8.

Once people saw what kind of love scouts were getting, and cloaks, people started jumping on the bandwagon.

Then came the 1.8 FotM slayer scouts, and suddenly lots of people were getting killed by scouts when that had never been an issue before.

To some, it means that must mean there is a scout problem. They didn't bother to parse out the real issues, or were just too lazy to try.

What do you guys/gals/mutants think of the new delay and how that will affect pro Knifers?.

Also, I really don't care for the range reduction while cloaked.

If they have concerns for shared passives while cloaked, I would rather they just remove shared passives altogether.

Otherwise, they should just come out and say they don't like slaying while cloaked and at least be honest.

As it stands, my hacking capacity will be severely diminished as I have no defensive options, particularly around CRUs with Reds spawning in. Fan-freaking-tastic.

I hope it all works out for the best in the end, but I don't look forward to it.

Not too worried myselfGǪ
Remember when we used to hack **** slower and without cloaks.. and the Installations broadcast your position to everybodyGǪ hell we did it then we can still do it now.
Though i will be bringing back my left and right RE drop before i start hacking a CRU in that little out of reach crookGǪ come get me fatty go ahead

Exactly.

F'ing lazy fixes...

[
When you mean scanners specialized for scanning certain roles do you mean like scanners that can only scan scouts, or only medium frames?

Like Scanners that only have a range of 30 dB to 15 dB? Or 60 dB to 45 dB?

THAT would be interesting.

How is this incorrect, though?
You don't need to dampen to counter the best recon when the best recon isn't being fielded.

So apparently they want to nerf scouts again by making shields give a profile penalty...

Yay, minmitar scout=even worse.

Why don't they?
There's no need to fit more dampeners than you need. A single damp will take any scout under even proto scanners - it's only when Gallogis or scanner scouts come on field that you need to bother dampening more than that, and a single damp is far from crippling.

lmao.

More misquotes.

Not surprised.

getting to 500 ehp is not hard for proto scouts.

The min scout with 3 extenders gets to 430.

A cal with 4 slots

(what exactly were you going to put in the high slots as opposed to complex shield extenders??...a damage mod for your shotty???)

Gal get to 500 easily

And amarr is the tankiest.

Getting to 700 ehp is a lot of investment for a scout.

Getting to 800 ehp on my cal assault? 5 slots of 8.

And btw...the min scout has slightly PG for it's 6 high/lows and 2 equips...than my assault suit for it's 8 high/lows and 1 equip slot..isn't minmatar supposed to have the least fitting capacity of the races? (both obv have 2 weap & grenade slot)

Just a weird observation I had this morning.

It has more CPU than the cal scout.

I would like to note the following

Submarines do not have superior Sensors

Stealth Fighters do not have superior Sensors

Stealth Bombers do not have superior Sensors

Jamming Birds do not have superior stealth

Strike Fighters do not have superior stealth or scanners

C3 birds do not have superior stealth.

High Logi precision only worries me because of the shared PassivesGǪ and those Sentinels that they tend to roam around with.
Buffing Logi EWAR means buffing Sentinel EWAR at no cost to the Sent.

Nice TPLAK

In my mind, the ideal would be competitive passives for Scouts and competitive active scans for Logis. The last thing Dust needs is less vulnerable heavy/logi blobs. I suspect we'd be better off balance-wise buffing active scanners.

At minimum, I think we should consider a 5dB buff to Assault Profile and Range improvements for both MedFrames. Frankly, I see no harm in further closing the gap with a 5dB buff to all MedFrame attributes (in addition to buffing range).


As for Active Scanner improvements, I'll elaborate:
* Proto Vanilla - No Change.
* Proto Focused - Buff Cooldown to 30 sec; buff Visibility to 10 sec.
* Proto Quantum - Buff Cooldown to 30 sec.
* Proto Proximity - Buff scan angle from 45 to 90 degrees; nerf cooldown to 15 sec.
* Proto Flux - Nerf scan angle from 90 to 60 degrees.
* Set Proximity and Flux to team-share; add lesser WP intel assist.
* Set Vanilla, Focused and Quantum to squad-share.


I disagree with the notion that scouts should lose their strength in precision. Firstly, AM and CA Scout roles are based upon recon; we can't strip away these roles and retain racial parity. Secondly, high-intensity scans by high-HP units would introduce new and significant imbalance.

Knives equipped, scan profile reduced

How have I not looked at this thread before???

The last three pages alone are like an echo chamber of comedy GOLD.

It's like logic has taken a joyride around the toilet bowl in a flush cycle.

I love you guys. You make me glad I am me.

And not you.

most people have no problem following my insanity from origin to terminus.

And I never promised anyone I'd make any special effort to make sense.

But the laughter began when cass caul started calling rattati an idiot and will continue long after he digs the hole straight through the ban threshold.

This thread is pure gold.

Do you think I care one whit about "fair?"

Meh, he's a Goon, can't do much about those guys.

I would just like to reiterate before I take the time to read over the EWAR numbers that taking away the knife bonus on the minja will just make the Gal scout a better knifer (because superior low slots).

You would have to give Minmatar super duper hack bonuses, or superior than Gallente Dampening bonuses (the latter of which I certainly don't recommend) in order to even circumstantially give people a reason to run Minmatar over Gallente.

Otherwise, Gal Scouts could just throw on a Code Breaker (or have a fit just with Code Breakers) and they would be a good enough substitute for hacking that it would be insane to throw all that SP in a Minmatar scouts for so little marginal benefit.

Minjas have been overly d*cked over enough as it is. I haven't even gotten to what might be Minja killing EWAR changes, and you are already talking about making them more meaningless. Absolutely boggles my mind.

Could use the old "V" (which I believe denoted newer units).

The value used in his spreadsheet calculations is showing 15%.

I faltered on the profile punishment of precision and also the cloak buff. Too many things at once. Instead we went with a strong and tiny Short range that assaulters, will just need to cross to get into kill range. Medium range is now the "old ewar" albeit at reduced ranges so passive scans don't rule, Assault can dampen a little, and Logis can scan a little. Sentinels can choose to get under Long range scans or Precision mods to fight scouts in short, or amplify their Short to get Assaults in Medium range.

I think it will work out, with a tweak here and there.

I suspect the why may have more to do with Rattati being told "we can't turn off passive scans" ... so he's found a way to minimize their effect instead.

I am not over doing it but look. 3 guys running to a staircase normally I could nk them all from behind using my adv fit with 2 damps and they would not see me on radar all but now with this you will be spotted after the first guy. fyi raptor jumps wont be working remember they will see you within 7-9 meters so guess what the box is 6 meters his squadmates blasts you before you can even jump.

a big problem is I love nk gal scouts in the back using 3 damps by hiding on the other side of boxes waiting for him to move close or by the box but with this new system he will see me on the another side before in walks into strike range or hiding from a squad of proto stompers that would have missed me now see me yay thanks for killing me proto stompers

Once again, this is all theory, but I actually can't wait to see how this plays out. I will also finally be skilling into precision and range V, as I never had a reason to run them on my Min Scout before. Now all my suits can benefit from it.

Negative on nerfs to Precision Mods. Rattati mentioned that he backed down on additional drawbacks to EWAR modules as well as additional active damp bonus to cloak.

I was claiming that Rattati appears to take everything the Barbershop says as golden (as long as it's not presented in such a terrible manner such as Appia saying "I'M DONE"), you guys need like, 1/10th of the effort to convince him to do something, that was who I was talking to was saying.

Hm, I just realised precision mods will be better at improving range than range amps.

lol well I have been going though the number and I really hate this EWAR update of CCP Rattati.
I bet we scouts will see gall & amarr assault with 2-3 complex precision for highs (maybe 1 damage mod) and 1 complex range amp 1 complex armor rep with 3 complex armor plates. the assault will see a Minnie scout with 3 damps at 7 meters (well he will see most scouts lol). so no more hiding on the box or behind it while cloaked so we could nova knife him. lol shotgunners are ok since most shots are at 10 meters.

with 3 damps on the Minnie scout db is 15.85 with just 1 complex precision his short scan is 16.20 so he will need 2 complex precision. 13.38db scan

I think it's a good thing. I believe it's fair for my opponent to get a blip of red for 0.3 seconds before knifing them, I also firmly believe that no matter the suit, if they are breathing on you they should be able to detect you.

And in all cases, these occurances are only true if they sacrifice King HP for precision enhancers.

Not yet, probably next Fanfest.

Just so you guys know, you are safe to knife me in the back.

After playing multiple matches, I decided that EWAR is still 100% pointless for Assaults.
Being direct combat units, those module slots are too precious with too little gain.

Pleased to oblige :-) Spitballing ...

First, we head off a resurrection of the post-1.8 invisible monster (800HP GalScout) with Echo HP drawbacks. Then, we restore cloak active dampening bonus to ease pressure on the Min Scout.

Next, we balance modules by making King HP somewhat less attractive and other modules more attractive. Biotics get a fitting reduction. If we're lucky, codebreakers get moved to Highs. The effectiveness gap between MinScout and GalScout narrows.

Lastly, we accept that Dust is better off with passive scans giving way to active scans. We make cloak into a tool best used for travel (increased sprint speed, less shimmer) rather than retooling it for half-hearted reconnaissance ... or removing delay and inviting a return to cloak-delivered frontal attacks.

Now what to do with the roles of AM Scout and CA Scout?

Agreed on most points. Disagreed here. If shields are in fact too good, then they are too good for everyone and should be nerfed in a way which affects everyone. Signature Penalty is not a universal decentive; it would be completely meaningless to undampened units.

Also, have you considered efficacy bonuses?

A good example of high DPS; just like the HMG. But these aren't on par with the anti-shield alpha of a Flux Grenade, charged ScR or Shotgun. 1 Flux grenade negates 16 complex shield extenders. Instantaneously. There is no drain or damage over time. 1 Shotgun blast instantly negates 7 complex shield extenders, and the charged ScR isn't far behind the Shotgun.

Point being, actualized utility per module is higher with Armor than Shields. Armor Plates always add to TTK; Shield Extenders do not.

I think Rattati probably looks at what you guys say and does the opposite, because half of you shouldn't be taken seriously for balance query. Case in point, the recent BALANCE updates for scouts.

X is x for scouts so nerf it.

X is x for scouts so buff it.

You guys are hilariously one sided for the most part with what you think is balance and it would be nice if the vet scouts put you in your place instead allowing the bile to spew forth.

Newbro anything is harsh, deal with it.

If you want all the tools to do what is normally considered cheating in other games then it should be sp intensive. I have the Amarr scout at proto before you speweth more bile.

Hold on, you are a vet scout.......kind of.

explain to me why low level scouts can't use the cloak, is it because it doesnt damp, or they don't have the fitting for it. If latter, why not increase the cloak fitting bonus or reduce pg/cpu on std cloak?

If all knives were wielded equally, I suspect there'd be little reason to run MinScout. As for precision and range, I believe that passive recon is on its way out and that the AM/CA roles should be replaced.

O_O

Actually, I was shocked (O_O) that someone would say the phrase:

"Nobody uses minscout just for the knives"

The min scout is the best scout in my opinion because the satisfaction level is above and beyond anything else in this game. Adrenaline is OP.


Edit: I also believe the min scout has plenty of fitting space, I never have trouble fitting anything I want. Might have to do with the fact I feel 1 enhanced shield extender is enough.

Stellios and Reflex were both badass Scouts, but I thought they both ran AR (?).

Yeah, you might be right. Here's the KinCat / Myo Maths (spitballing percentages):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KKlvI_Mcpu76ngmHJvKC-ileqp-vyRRGpeFyDayknx8/edit?usp=sharing

Absolutely agree that we should first wait-and-see what comes of Myos ... (so excite!)

For Range Extenders they need to just have them affect the two outer rings. What they should have done is made ALL inner rings say 5meters and had the two outer rings vary by suits/skills/range extenders. This way they wouldn't have had to kill the range extender.

@ Varoth / Void / Spade

If shimmer reduction is an option, then yes, absolutely; this would be the optimal fix for cloak. If shimmer reduction is not an option, we should consider easily implemented alternatives.

I suspect that would altogether negate the need damps. I don't believe that would be balanced.

The problem with the scanner is, it is way more powerful than the WPs for scanning suggest.

Sinboto vs Ecstasy cravings 1v1: adv vs pro.

Sinboto wins.

Then saved from being double teamed by the timer. XD

Integer tweaks alone aren't going to fix the Role Bleed in the Recon Department. But I see your point; too many moving parts. Will try again ...

Idea: EWAR Untangled, V2.0 (now with Integer Tweaks!)

* CA Scout - Change bonus to Scan Precision + Range
* AM Scout - Change bonus to Biotics Efficacy
* GA Logi - Change bonus to Scan Duration + Cooldown
* Pro Active Scanners - Buff 20dB to 18 dB, 28dB to 25 dB
* Adv Active Scanners - Buff 36 dB to 33 dB
* Bsc Active Scanners - Buff 46 dB to 40 dB
* Cloak - Reduce cloak-blind from 85% to 45%
* Logis - Buff non-EWAR attribute(s) (i.e. speed, tank, pricing, EQ performance, etc)

EWAR Untangled, V2.1 (to follow)
If GalLogi remains only competitive recon unit, reduce cloak-blind from 45% to 25%
If CalScout becomes the only competitive recon unit, increase cloak-blind from 45% to 65%
If GalLogi and CalScout appear to be "sharing" the role of competitive recon, then make no change

One cPE on your MinScout will drop your 15m mid-range scans from 36dB to 29dB; you'll still be blind as a heavy beyond 15 meters. If you're looking for reliable scans, you're better off running a Creodron Proximity Scanner. 28 dB at twice the range. Fires every 10 seconds. Shares results team-wide.

And yes, Kaeru is correct in his definition. Here is a tvtropes article on "Scrub". Still one of my favorite ways to review if something is broken or if I'm just upset that I'm having trouble countering it.

1. Not Useless =/= Competitive. (The AM Scout has no real purpose/role; this concerns me.)
3. Would threaten backstab viability (?). Imagine if Falloff's "early warning" were twice as long.
4. Slayers migrated to Assault following Falloff, not following Cloakblind.

---

Please keep the feedback coming, Varoth.

Outside of higher tier corps, its entirely possible.

But I know that NF does it. FA does it. OH does it.

Smaller teams I ring for don't, or only have one running it. If they run it, I pull out a Gal Scout with 3x damps and let them meet Mr. Duvolle Specialist.

If we were shooting for Nova Knife + Sentinel viability, that might be a problem :P

I'm new to dust and I'm a scout do i need to worry about kd per battle dieing 15 times per battle how do I stop dying?

The buff to basic mediums my be the first part of the buff to Assaults in general.

I for one am kinda pissed off they're doing this, other wise I wouldn't have wasted the millions of SP to unlock Gallente Assault (which I run an ARR on...) and instead would've just specced the basic frame.

Another idea ... I'm sure something like it has already been suggested:

Basic Med Frame
* -1 Slot
* +1 EQ
* 50% Isk Discount

Basic Heavy Frame
* -1 Slot
* +1 EQ
* 50% Isk Discount

Basic Light Frame
* +1 Slot
* -1 EQ
* 50% Isk Discount

---

+1 EQ for Assault might appeal to Assault users who don't like their current racial bonuses. EQ on a Heavy could certainly come in handy. Scouts were assigned a 2nd EQ slot to fit cloak, but they can't fit cloak until they specialize; so why not drop the specialization slot and add a utility slot?

@ Varoth

If we were somehow able to lock-down the inner ring (fix at 5m to 7m), I'd have no qualms whatsoever with restoring Range Amps to a useful state. If we did it now, however, CQC combatants would be made far less viable.

Scout balancing.

EWAR Table
Proposal Google Doc

Agreed. We'll only pitch the proposal if declining Scout efficiency/performance permits room to do so.


Duvolle Focused Scanner: 20dB ---> 18dB
Voila!

For any that might care, here is my fav min scout fit.

Adv Min Scout
H: 2x Complex PE, 1xC blue
L: 2x Complex Kincat
E: N11 DU, NI
PW: Ish NK
SW: BP

I don't understand how minjas don't run knives. Are you sure you are running the right suit? Is it a roleplaying thing? So what? You guys don't realize the value of the bonus? Or prefer to shoot prey versus carve it up?

If you put two good knifers together we can hold down objectives like rabid beasts. I honestly miss the damp bonus because that fit the knife bonus. Damp > hack.


Leave the knives alone- it's the minjas greatest strength. don't tell nobody but it's also the best bonus in the game. You say keeping the knife bonus is holding us back and I say keeping the hack bonus is what is holding us back.

That being said, not being able to beat a ring team is your problem, not theirs.

Unless CCP locks corp battles to "Members Only", you will still have to deal with it.

And even then, there is nothing stopping them from joining, fighting, and then leaving said corp.

Slap on timers then, but now its getting ridiculous.

Just step up and deal with the team.

As long as people have ego's you will ALWAYS have corps willing to pay for teams to carry their name to victory.

I guarantee it.

Raids will help get new people into PC, I'm convinced of that, but you severely underestimate the power that an EXPERIENCED PC squad can do in a small pond.

People like to win, and I'm sure there will be more than one person with an ego to match his wallet.

Ugh...... this is probably the most soul destroying aspect of FW for me in Dust. No matter how much we succeed everywhere else the rest of the militia is getting thrashed.

PCLAS cannot always be online to carry you guys to victories. Please for god's sake try harder. It's becoming incredibly frustrating to hear a lot of AFW players talk about losing matches when for all my time over the last 3 days we've not lost a single match even against team syncs.

PIE Ground Control will be more active once more of our members are online. AT present we are only two and looking at upwards of 10 later this evening after our guys get out of work or other prior commitments.

....
* True finds his Zen

Apologies it's just a frustrating system.

Typically run damps and/or reds in my lows, shields in highs +1 precision. Personally prefer NK+CR over NK+SMG or NK+ Flaylock. REs for Skirm or Dom; Active Scanner for Ambush.

@ Varoth

I think you bring up some great points.

Usually, when we have talked of active scanner problems, we have often been referring to the Gal Logi/Focused scanners you mentioned. It would probably help if we were always more clear about that.

I think your point about there not being a problem with a logi passive scanner would be alright if it didn't overlap so much with the Amarr bonuses, and I do think that a change for them to have biotics makes the most sense. The range amp nerf just hit them too hard.

I also wish there was a way to either make inner circles a hard number, or to make range amps only affect the medium and outer circles, but I don't recall if that is feasible or not.

With regards to Assaults, I think we have two problems. One is the EWAR, the other is the mobility/HP in combination. At this point I am indifferent towards which CCP should hopefully decide to adjust, so long as they aren't both adjusted concurrently.

Ark!
ARK!
Some one be posting a real lengthy post!
you have a brother in arm's ya brummie!

I'm not a 'Brummie' either, Mr Cavman is just one of the northern savages.

Weird.

I have seen at least one or two threads started by non barbershop people suggesting Amarr get a biotics bonus.

I guess I just assumed it was well accepted.

@ Varoth

Have you looked at the passive scan stats of a Logi with 3 precision enhancers?

I really like this guy ! Can we keep him??

I think we're pretty close to being on the same page here, Varoth. My take:

Are the AM Scout and its bonus useless? No.
Are the AM Scout and its bonus competitive? No.
Are AM Scout Passives better than Logi Passives? Yes.
Are AM Scout Passives significantly better than Logi Passives? No.
Are AM Scout Passives significantly worse than GalLogi Actives? Yes.

Does the AM Scout's bonus presently provide for it a unique and meaningful strength in competitive play? No.

---

Would the AM Scout bonus become more meaningful if Range Extenders and/or Falloff were retooled? Very likely. The question, is it a design goal for Passive Scans to compete with Active Scans? If not (which I believe to be the case), then the AM Scout needs a different bonus as its strength is inferior to and directly overlapped by the GalLogi. In my mind, there's a gap between AM Scout passives are useless and AM Scout passives are competitive; I believe we're presently somewhere in between, and I believe that we'll have to do better than that to see racial parity restored within the class.

---

Edit: All that said, I'd prioritize AM Scout changes below other infantry-related balance items ...

#1 - HP/Mobility Tradeoff
#2 - Polish Pass - Classes (CommandoGåæ LogiGåæ)
#3 - Polish Pass - Weapons (ScRGåô CRGåô LaserGåæ Breach ShotgunGåæ IoPGåæ MagsecGåæ)
#4 - Active Scanner Rework (team scanners v squad scanners, WP, if possible - scannerina fix, etc)
#5 - Racial Parity / Bonuses (+ö GA/CA Assault, AM Scout, CA Logi, etc)

what?

Unless they've somehow successfully nerfed logis so that they are no longer viable as "slayers", i think that there should be no speed swapping.. they should both have equally slow speeds.

And neither of them should get anywhere close to the speed of the slowest scout.

The only skins I saw under Visual Customization were the legacy skins. Where did you find Thukker?

Also detracts from the "coolness" of the feature. If everyone were issued one or two skins to play with, people would likely get excited about earning/purchasing/collecting new ones.

Warlords 1.1 Newsletter SKIN
Closed Beta Vet SKIN
Open Beta Vet SKIN
Uprising Vet SKIN
Academy Grad SKIN
1M, 10M, 25M, 50M, 100M SP SKINs
1k, 10k, 25k, 50k, 100k Kills SKINs
(etc ...)

^ Forget PS Achievements! These are badges a merc can wear into battle!

Big price tags are tough. Can't drop 'em in any time soon or folks who paid the premium will be rightly upset.

That. Right there.
That is the ultimate knifing guide in one sentence.
The key to successful knifing?

use your team as bait.

Crucial :)

Weelll.. I'd say that's great for the general case scout.

but if you have a knifer hit-n-run tuned speed demon... seems like there's no freakin way you can stay "patient and cool headed" running around at 10.5m/sec! You gotta be hyper to keep up, it's all twitch-gaming then!

Why misleading?

I said that the statement 'Galscout is by far the most widely used scout' is wrong and presented statistics to prove my point. In what way did this mislead you?

Went looking for videos of Morathi III; learned quite a 'bit following him around back in the day. Didn't find what I was looking for, but I did find a gem!

Chromosome Shotgun footage!

1 precision amp, 3 extenders, 2 damps. Whatever guns you choose. Prettymuch the only right way to fit the calscout.

Yes I'm aware that I'm a huge number of pages behind.

If Haerr is available, I'd highly recommend him. If he isn't, I'd be glad to fact check with you, though I'd prefer to do it here with the guys rather than on Skype. If you're looking for values, the Scan Table on Page 1 is up-to-date. Protofits is also up-to-date and accurate (recently confirmed).

There a few "rules" which aren't readily outlined ...

* Profile and Precision values are rounded to nearest whole number
* Ties go to the scanner
* Passives Scans remain up while incapacitated
* Passive Scans are shared squad-wide

Anything else, guys?

Almost forgot! Denak's experiment. Say your profile is 28 dB and you're pinged by a 28dB active scanner. If you activate cloak while painted, you will remain painted even if your profile dips below 28dB.

That was my fit too. Might still,have it though I'm not doing PC currently, I actually wouldn't mind knowing which is better. It might be the min scout especially since you'd hack faster. However the gal lets you have a better uplink I bet.

I think adjusting the speed/HP ratio of assaults and giving Skirt Scouts a biotics bonus would be enough.

If not it could be fine tuned from there.