| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
   |
Posted - 2015.05.28 07:37:00 -
[331] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Can we apply the same modifiers to the Assault jump height?
I know i sound like a broken record, but I hate not being able to jump those goddamn short barriers! Why can't you use myofibrils? They increase jump height I'm aware they exist, I'm saying the baseline is too low likewise you shouldn't need them on a heavy to jump a curb
Because that baseline is tied to movement speed or something and isn't a separate value that can be adjusted. At least I thinks what I remember hearing. That's interesting because won't these new movement speeds affect everyone's jump heights? They will all become lower yes? |
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
622
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 07:44:00 -
[332] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Can we apply the same modifiers to the Assault jump height?
I know i sound like a broken record, but I hate not being able to jump those goddamn short barriers! Why can't you use myofibrils? They increase jump height I'm aware they exist, I'm saying the baseline is too low likewise you shouldn't need them on a heavy to jump a curb Because that baseline is tied to movement speed or something and isn't a separate value that can be adjusted. At least I thinks what I remember hearing. That's interesting because won't these new movement speeds affect everyone's jump heights? They will all become lower yes?
They are inter-related in the same way that walking and sprint speed are inter-related
Since the assault is getting a boost to the sprint ratio, up to 1.5, from a 1.4 baseline, I am asking for the same to be applied to the jump height
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 07:52:00 -
[333] - Quote
I love how people think that smart logis will be advancing on enemy positions faster than assaults.
If this bevomes a thing I will log on more frequently to farm easy kills.
Smart logi players will be dropping into a conflict to resupply, revive and repair and drop back when it gets hot. They don't have the armament or EHP of assault suits and don't have the speed scouts use to rough up sentinels.
Killer bees are going to pop up as the theorycrafters start thinking that the speed increase (which is somewhat low swap) will negate the need for extenders or pllates is hilarious.
The only way they're going to get more EHP than an assault is via full plates, which would drop their speed back to assault level. Assaults use ferroscale and reactive for mobility.
Kincats are about to become more important to assault players along with regulators.
And a logi who decides to go killer bee will be fairly effective.
Just not as effective as a fully skilled and kitted assault player.
And god help them vs. AHMG sentinels. What happens to tanked logis and assaults when that thing gets a bead on them is nothing short of hilarity in action.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 07:53:00 -
[334] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I was hoping logis would keep the proposed speeds, or at least be as fast as assaults. I guess these revisions are acceptable though. They do, it's the sprint that will differentiate. Both will retain sprint speeds, normal movement will be reduced for assault and increased for logi.
This is an excellent method for differentiating the movement types.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
|
CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 08:02:00 -
[335] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Can we apply the same modifiers to the Assault jump height?
I know i sound like a broken record, but I hate not being able to jump those goddamn short barriers! Why can't you use myofibrils? They increase jump height I'm aware they exist, I'm saying the baseline is too low likewise you shouldn't need them on a heavy to jump a curb Because that baseline is tied to movement speed or something and isn't a separate value that can be adjusted. At least I thinks what I remember hearing. That's interesting because won't these new movement speeds affect everyone's jump heights? They will all become lower yes? They are inter-related in the same way that walking and sprint speed are inter-related Since the assault is getting a boost to the sprint ratio, up to 1.5, from a 1.4 baseline, I am asking for the same to be applied to the jump height
You will jump higher when sprinting, lower when walking with a higher sprint modifier, lower speed
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
|
|
el OPERATOR
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:30:00 -
[336] - Quote
Wow.
I am still so very wow right now.
Open-Beta Vet.
Egbinger Original.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
|
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:31:00 -
[337] - Quote
Oh, damn, I just thought of something.
A single myo stim gives me some pretty good mobility, definitely worth the slot for all the barriers I can jump over.
But a lot of those are borderline jumps, as in I mess up by a few CM and I'm not getting over it.
With this change my myo stim will become less effective, as I won't be able to jump over those kind of barriers now.
Oh well.
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
|
|
CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:31:00 -
[338] - Quote
After digging around all day in stamina and regen, I can safely conclude that with regard to mobility, the Minmatar faction has, due to I believe a fundamental misconception, been double dipping in the speed jar.
The comparisons were done on both "distance covered until stamina pool is fully recharged" and "average speed while covering a fixed distance".
The intent with the design was to allow minmatar to travel approximately 5% faster, and Amarr approx 5% slower. Whereas, minmatar actually travels 10% faster and 15% faster than Amarr.
Now, I don't want to punish them, but bring the rest up.
For example, this means that Caldari Assault will now have 35 stam regen instead of 20, and Amarr 45, while Minmatar stays at 50.
With the reduction of normal speed, and differentation through sprinting, I hope we have a really good model as a foundation for speed.
The rules of thumb as applied to the Medium class now:
Mobility (stamina pool and recovery)
CA/GA = normal
Amarr= 5% lower
Minmatar = 5% higher
Sprint
Basic = normal = 1.4x
Logistics = normal-0.1 = 1.3x
Assault = normal+0.1 = 1.5x
eHP
Basic = normal
Logistics = lower
Assault = higher
Speed
Basic = normal
Logistics = higher
Assault = lower
Shield Regen
on hold
While there is nothing gamebreaking about this increase, it will result in more fluidity across the spectrum and be a little more enjoyable.
This will have a cascading effect, as for example Light Basics are very out of shape in regard to most of these things. The other basics are more in line.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
|
|
|
CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:34:00 -
[339] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Just something I was playing around with, an alternative idea on quantifying Mobility vs HP. This is just a rough, conceptual project (because this is what sickness looks like) so by no means are the numbers anything you should focus on. More or less showing an idea for a methodology of design. In short instead of comparing just movement speed and HP, you take a look at a composite of Movement Speed, Stamina, and Stamina recharge and then convert all 3 into a single value, and then compare it against HP. The advantage of this is, for example in the case of Logis and Assaults, you can give the Logistics more mobility but lower movement speed due to superior stamina, or vice versa. I present two test case studies that net fairly similar results but do so by buffing different stats. I also understand that the Mobility Index is tricky to come up with since it attempts to assign a cumulative worth of various stats and their weight within that sum. Math and ****. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s-Y9wlM7v8P6KT0xsjhkQqruUPDmJkuXWrTU2mswmMg/edit?usp=sharingWho knows, it may just be gibberish, haven't had much sleep lately and if this keeps up I'm going to start looking like Rattati.
The way I chose was to calculate mobility as a "traverse" index, how long does it take to cross X meters, and how far can I get through one sprint and sprint recovery phase.
I need to the same thing for shields and shield regen.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
|
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
903
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:36:00 -
[340] - Quote
TL/DR: No to changing sprint modifiers, instead give assaults a skill bonus to speed.
I don't particularly like the idea of changing the sprint modifiers.
Firstly, sprint speed is much more important, so the changes to the game will be minimal.
More importantly, you would be adding an additional layer of complexity. I thought a major purpose for looking at dropsuit speeds was to inject some extra logic into things; make things more intuitive / easy to understand. Giving different suits different sprint modifiers is the opposite of simplifying things.
Trying to both keep the proposed hp / speed curve, whilst simultaneously breaking it with sprint modifiers seems like cheating. Whose to say the hp/speed curve shouldn't be sprint speed vs hp? If I want to get from A to B I sprint.
I don't know how you are going to get round the speed / hp problem. Every class has special abilities that make them worthwhile on the battlefield. Scouts have mobility and stealth (just about), logis have equipment support, commandos have dual light weapons, sentinels have heavy weapons and resistances, and Assault suit's special attribute is having both speed and hp. To fit the assault role you need to be both tough and fast. I would conclude from this that assault suits would naturally not fit on an hp - speed curve with other suits, they should be outliers by design / necessity.
Currently, various suits trade hp or speed, along with regen, stamina, slots, bonuses, hitbox, and EWAR, for their other attributes. If you want a true hp / speed relationship, you would have to establish what all those trades are, the relative value of different attributes, and make a plot taking all these things into account. This doesn't really seem viable to me.
How about I propose an alternative solution to the sprint modifiers? How about going with the proposed speed changes, keeping sprint modifiers equal between classes, and give assaults a bonus per level to movement speed (including sprint). This way you keep the intuitive curve, but you are also saying "look, assault's special ability is assaulting, which requires speed, here, have a bonus to it." This would give a much more easily understood way for assaults to break the hp/speed curve and maintain their special place on the battlefield: the slayers. You could then balance this bonus so that assaults are a bit slower than they are now, thus achieving improved overall balance. Downside is, not quite so good for newer players.
To Aeon: Rattati posted dropsuit KDR showing assaults to have considerably better KDR than other suits. The market data shows that assault suit sales vastly outstrip other dropsuits. This all includes Gallente assaults. Just because Gal assaults have a slightly worse bonus compared to Amarr and Minmatar assaults, does not mean they should be exempt from assault balancing.
Regarding balancing Min assaults specifically, I recommend either a) reducing stamina / stamina regen to make them more similar to other assaults. Or b) reducing hp to make them more like scouts, inline with the Minmatar tradition of having suits that blend with the lighter tier above them on the hp / speed curve. |
|
|
Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:37:00 -
[341] - Quote
Now that's an interesting find.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:52:00 -
[342] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Shield Regen
on hold
For shield regen, may I suggest lowering the recharger and energizer efficiency by 10% and setting the shield depleted recharge delay as the only time shields stop regenerating?
The lower HP pool and absolutely destructive effect by shield breaker weapons will keep them in line, while lowering the capacity of the rail rifle and combat rifle from casually blowing through the shallower HP pools.
The regen loss due to shield regen stopping from a stray shot can be crippling To a shield user. The only dropsuit that is shield dependent and viable in a firefight with scramblers or plasma in close is the calsent.
I'm not saying that shields should be equal in a brawl, but right now they fold up like a wet sack under fire, and by and large it's hard for me to determine why. The balance between shields and armor is close, but without the sniper outliers they feel like they need something.
Without more kill/spawn numbers from you on various weapon/suit combos I can only go on the oobservation that caldari shield fits feel squishy as hell, wheras the minmatar can get away with either armor fits with damage mods or a speed fit with a shield buffer or damage rack to tear up the battleground.
Interested to hear your thoughts on this topic, honestly. I'm actually very interested in the numbers and if I am wrong. But my feel for the assaults and logis is they have much less use on the field than the calsent except as snipers.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 09:57:00 -
[343] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Shield Regen
on hold
Interested to hear your thoughts on this topic, honestly. I'm actually very interested in the numbers and if I am wrong. But my feel for the assaults and logis is they have much less use on the field than the calsent except as snipers.
Same, I'm very interested to know.
I don't necessarily agree with Breakin's idea, but I would like to know more data before I make any sort of decision.
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
904
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 10:06:00 -
[344] - Quote
Another thought. A more accurate version of the brick fit plot would be to use 1/2 of slots as hp mods. Shields for Caldari and Minmatar, ferroscale for Amarr and Gallente light and medium, plate for Amarr and Gallente sentinels.
This would give a more accurate picture of how things actually are in game. |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 10:13:00 -
[345] - Quote
I am very impressed with changes you have made. TL;DR from the last two pages.
- Logis walk faster (every one who tried keeping up with a moving squad with rep tool will appreciate this).
- Assaults sprint retained (keeping high mobilitiy and getting from one place to another). You walk slower, but have burst of energy for movement.
- Assaults get an over all movement buff (sprint speed and stamina regen) instead of a straight minmatar nerf to keep with proper ratio. So the amarr assults will walk slower than commandos, but have a much higher burst of speed, more stamina, so they move better.
- Logis must fill equipment slot (no brainer for any real logi)
- Amarr logi keeps its sidearm
- Commando buff (movement speed and a slot)
For a hotfix, man this is some good stuff. I enjoy good tradeoff systems, and this is shaping up to reflect that. The only OCD request I have is update the OP or put the new adjustments in the last few pages in a new thread. This you'll avoid alot of QQ comments to come, continue a feedback discussion, rather than reactions to the first post.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
|
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 11:00:00 -
[346] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:After digging around all day in stamina and regen, I can safely conclude that with regard to mobility, the Minmatar faction has, due to I believe a fundamental misconception, been double dipping in the speed jar.
The comparisons were done on both "distance covered until stamina pool is fully recharged" and "average speed while covering a fixed distance".
The intent with the design was to allow minmatar to travel approximately 5% faster, and Amarr approx 5% slower. Whereas, minmatar actually travels 10% faster and 15% faster than Amarr.
Now, I don't want to punish them, but bring the rest up.
For example, this means that Caldari Assault will now have 35 stam regen instead of 20, and Amarr 45, while Minmatar stays at 50.
With the reduction of normal speed, and differentation through sprinting, I hope we have a really good model as a foundation for speed.
The rules of thumb as applied to the Medium class now:
Mobility (stamina pool and recovery)
CA/GA = normal
Amarr= 5% lower
Minmatar = 5% higher
Sprint
Basic = normal = 1.4x
Logistics = normal-0.1 = 1.3x
Assault = normal+0.1 = 1.5x
eHP
Basic = normal
Logistics = lower
Assault = higher
Speed
Basic = normal
Logistics = higher
Assault = lower
Shield Regen
on hold
While there is nothing gamebreaking about this increase, it will result in more fluidity across the spectrum and be a little more enjoyable.
This will have a cascading effect, as for example Light Basics are very out of shape in regard to most of these things. The other basics are more in line.
hallelujah!! **** the matari \o/ |
WeapondigitX V7
The Exemplars
412
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 11:04:00 -
[347] - Quote
Please consider not nerfing the speed of std/adv/pro medium basic frames. They are already inferior to assaults. They only have 1 or 2 defined viable roles that out do assaults.
While Assault suits 'out do' there racial basic medium frame suits in every other way.
Hope that's not confusing |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 11:08:00 -
[348] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Shield Regen
on hold
For shield regen, may I suggest lowering the recharger and energizer efficiency by 10% and setting the shield depleted recharge delay as the only time shields stop regenerating? The lower HP pool and absolutely destructive effect by shield breaker weapons will keep them in line, while lowering the capacity of the rail rifle and combat rifle from casually blowing through the shallower HP pools. The regen loss due to shield regen stopping from a stray shot can be crippling To a shield user. The only dropsuit that is shield dependent and viable in a firefight with scramblers or plasma in close is the calsent. I'm not saying that shields should be equal in a brawl, but right now they fold up like a wet sack under fire, and by and large it's hard for me to determine why. The balance between shields and armor is close, but without the sniper outliers they feel like they need something. Without more kill/spawn numbers from you on various weapon/suit combos I can only go on the oobservation that caldari shield fits feel squishy as hell, wheras the minmatar can get away with either armor fits with damage mods or a speed fit with a shield buffer or damage rack to tear up the battleground. Interested to hear your thoughts on this topic, honestly. I'm actually very interested in the numbers and if I am wrong. But my feel for the assaults and logis is they have much less use on the field than the calsent except as snipers.
i dont know man. ive fought caldari vs caldari through bad hit detection and lag... a 1v1 lasted almost 10 mins with both of going through almost 4 proto nanohives. if the shields always were recharging, it'd be near impossible to kill them as they wiggle and strafe.
I honestly thought I wanted what youre asking for myself almost a year or two ago but not anymore. it'd be horrible.
I'd rather the shield hp to regen ratio looked at. particularly so that shields always recharge to full within a given time frame, regardless of total shield capacity.
|
Georgia Xavier
Y.A.M.A.H
No Context
571
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 11:08:00 -
[349] - Quote
replace one of the kincats with card regs! the poor gallentean will run out of breath quite fast. Still scary though
Click me
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 11:36:00 -
[350] - Quote
I actually use cardiacs on a lot of fits. The minmatar sentinel especially performs insanely well with cardiacs. their stamina may regen fast, but the ability to put a lot of distance between yourself and the jerk with the scram can mean the difference between life and death.
Not everyone agrees with me.
But the cardiac regulators are a mainstay for my fits That need to travel long distances Without dropping an LAV.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
|
|
Georgia Xavier
Y.A.M.A.H
No Context
571
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:06:00 -
[351] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I actually use cardiacs on a lot of fits. The minmatar sentinel especially performs insanely well with cardiacs. their stamina may regen fast, but the ability to put a lot of distance between yourself and the jerk with the scram can mean the difference between life and death.
Not everyone agrees with me.
But the cardiac regulators are a mainstay for my fits That need to travel long distances Without dropping an LAV.
Using two card regs on amarr suits besides heavies will get me to run for eternity~
Click me
|
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:13:00 -
[352] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Making Assault sprint faster is a very smart idea. Maybe reducing Logi stamina as well. Going to thank Adipem Nothi for putting the numbers on paper. What he proposed was inline with my idea that assaults need to quickly rejoin the fight after dying (we do that a lot). Plus, moving from cover set to cover set requires high sprint speeds. Walk/strafe is 100% negotiable if we can still sprint like Usain Bolt.
Reducing logi max stamina would help to further crystallize the assault role and hammer down anyone silly enough to start spouting ZOMG COMBAT LOGIZ!
@Ripley_Riley
"I NEED NO PILLS I'M A FUCKING GOAT!" - Cat Merc
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:17:00 -
[353] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:
To Aeon: Rattati posted dropsuit KDR showing assaults to have considerably better KDR than other suits. The market data shows that assault suit sales vastly outstrip other dropsuits. This all includes Gallente assaults. Just because Gal assaults have a slightly worse bonus compared to Amarr and Minmatar assaults, does not mean they should be exempt from assault balancing.
Regarding balancing Min assaults specifically, I recommend either a) reducing stamina / stamina regen to make them more similar to other assaults. Or b) reducing hp to make them more like scouts, inline with the Minmatar tradition of having suits that blend with the lighter tier above them on the hp / speed curve.
Do you remember back in 1.7 where they buffed HAVs and then nerfed AV at the same time? Honest question.
Nothing has ever been solved by buffing/nerfing at the same time.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
905
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:25:00 -
[354] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
To Aeon: Rattati posted dropsuit KDR showing assaults to have considerably better KDR than other suits. The market data shows that assault suit sales vastly outstrip other dropsuits. This all includes Gallente assaults. Just because Gal assaults have a slightly worse bonus compared to Amarr and Minmatar assaults, does not mean they should be exempt from assault balancing.
Regarding balancing Min assaults specifically, I recommend either a) reducing stamina / stamina regen to make them more similar to other assaults. Or b) reducing hp to make them more like scouts, inline with the Minmatar tradition of having suits that blend with the lighter tier above them on the hp / speed curve.
Do you remember back in 1.7 where they buffed HAVs and then nerfed AV at the same time? Honest question. Nothing has ever been solved by buffing/nerfing at the same time.
No, it's a bad idea to buff something and nerf it's counter. Assaults aren't a specific counter to logis so there isn't a problem. |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:30:00 -
[355] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
To Aeon: Rattati posted dropsuit KDR showing assaults to have considerably better KDR than other suits. The market data shows that assault suit sales vastly outstrip other dropsuits. This all includes Gallente assaults. Just because Gal assaults have a slightly worse bonus compared to Amarr and Minmatar assaults, does not mean they should be exempt from assault balancing.
Regarding balancing Min assaults specifically, I recommend either a) reducing stamina / stamina regen to make them more similar to other assaults. Or b) reducing hp to make them more like scouts, inline with the Minmatar tradition of having suits that blend with the lighter tier above them on the hp / speed curve.
Do you remember back in 1.7 where they buffed HAVs and then nerfed AV at the same time? Honest question. Nothing has ever been solved by buffing/nerfing at the same time. No, it's a bad idea to buff something and nerf it's counter. Assaults aren't a specific counter to logis so there isn't a problem.
Oh well in that case buff the -hell- out of my Assault Rifle because it's not a counter to the Rail Rifle at 70m. Just because it's not a direct counter doesn't mean that the two aren't going to interact in some way.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
|
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:33:00 -
[356] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Where as the faction fit ck.0 wielding a RR certainly can kill an ak.0 or gk.0 outside of their racial weapons optimal range, which is not a very defense oriented action all things considered 
Four. Meter. Difference. Between ARR & ASCR/SCR.
Amarr assaults beat the snot out of cal assaults more often than not.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
|
Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:35:00 -
[357] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
To Aeon: Rattati posted dropsuit KDR showing assaults to have considerably better KDR than other suits. The market data shows that assault suit sales vastly outstrip other dropsuits. This all includes Gallente assaults. Just because Gal assaults have a slightly worse bonus compared to Amarr and Minmatar assaults, does not mean they should be exempt from assault balancing.
Regarding balancing Min assaults specifically, I recommend either a) reducing stamina / stamina regen to make them more similar to other assaults. Or b) reducing hp to make them more like scouts, inline with the Minmatar tradition of having suits that blend with the lighter tier above them on the hp / speed curve.
Do you remember back in 1.7 where they buffed HAVs and then nerfed AV at the same time? Honest question. Nothing has ever been solved by buffing/nerfing at the same time. No, it's a bad idea to buff something and nerf it's counter. Assaults aren't a specific counter to logis so there isn't a problem. Oh well in that case buff the -hell- out of my Assault Rifle because it's not a counter to the Rail Rifle at 70m. Just because it's not a direct counter doesn't mean that the two aren't going to interact in some way.
Personally, I wish we could get a speed increase for Logistics to help them better keep up with the suits they're supporting without nerfing Assaults in the process.
I liked Aeon's post about speed issues with suits left over from Old CCP, and I hope this in some way addresses those, but I'm not sold on the idea of slowing down an entire class without approaching it in a more gradual manner.
In any case, hopefully if this results in unintended consequences it can be addressed quickly.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
|
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
10
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:39:00 -
[358] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:TL/DR: No to changing sprint modifiers, instead give assaults a skill bonus to speed. Penalizes those with less SP since they won't have the assault dropsuit command skill as high. Let's please refrain from making Dust 514 harder on newberries than it already is.
@Ripley_Riley
"I NEED NO PILLS I'M A FUCKING GOAT!" - Cat Merc
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:40:00 -
[359] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Sprint
Basic = normal = 1.4x
Logistics = normal-0.1 = 1.3x
Assault = normal+0.1 = 1.5x
I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "normal" above. The base movement figures on Page 1 do not appear to be +/- 10% ... is the new proposal as follows?
Assault
- 10% current base movement w/ sprint multiplier of 1.5
Logi
+10% current base movement w/ sprint multiplier of 1.3
* I ask because ^ this would leave the MN Logi with faster base movement (5.50 m/s) than the current MN Assault (5.30) as well as the AM, GA and CA Scouts (5.25, 5.45, 5.45).
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
|
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
|
Posted - 2015.05.28 12:42:00 -
[360] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:
To Aeon: Rattati posted dropsuit KDR showing assaults to have considerably better KDR than other suits. The market data shows that assault suit sales vastly outstrip other dropsuits. This all includes Gallente assaults. Just because Gal assaults have a slightly worse bonus compared to Amarr and Minmatar assaults, does not mean they should be exempt from assault balancing.
Regarding balancing Min assaults specifically, I recommend either a) reducing stamina / stamina regen to make them more similar to other assaults. Or b) reducing hp to make them more like scouts, inline with the Minmatar tradition of having suits that blend with the lighter tier above them on the hp / speed curve.
Do you remember back in 1.7 where they buffed HAVs and then nerfed AV at the same time? Honest question. Nothing has ever been solved by buffing/nerfing at the same time. No, it's a bad idea to buff something and nerf it's counter. Assaults aren't a specific counter to logis so there isn't a problem. Oh well in that case buff the -hell- out of my Assault Rifle because it's not a counter to the Rail Rifle at 70m. Just because it's not a direct counter doesn't mean that the two aren't going to interact in some way. Personally, I wish we could get a speed increase for Logistics to help them better keep up with the suits they're supporting without nerfing Assaults in the process. I liked Aeon's post about speed issues with suits left over from Old CCP, and I hope this in some way addresses those, but I'm not sold on the idea of slowing down an entire class without approaching it in a more gradual manner. In any case, hopefully if this results in unintended consequences it can be addressed quickly.
I mean for real, it's like, yeah, Assaults are over-used and Logis/Commandos are under-used. Why is it 100% necessary to change all of them when a comparable buff to Logis/Commandos might just be all that's needed?
What evidence do we have that supports that buffing Logis/Commandos and subsequently nerfing Assaults in the same pass -ISN'T- going to drastically shift the meta spectrum in a way that is unhealthy?
We're going for this huge overarching change on the hopes and prayers that maybe it'll work with the added consequence of another six months dev time being spent toward balancing it all in the eventuality that it doesn't. Rather than the logical thing which would be to take it slow, do it in stages, and maybe find the balance on the way there. We're going -RIGHT BACK- to the Balance Pendulum where we make so many drastic changes that we overshoot our goal and have to dial it back and forth until it starts working.
Which by that point we'd have come up with another "looks good on paper" proposal and go through the entire process again.
The solution is clear and very simple: Buff the Logistics/Commandos. See how it works. If people start to transition from the Assaults to those classes than the nerf might not be entirely necessary. If it's doesn't, then we can -ABSOLUTELY- continue with the rest of the changes.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |