I get your point, but even if all of the racial assault bonuses actually made a difference (only 2 really do), that still doesn't trump the multitude of equipment slots. Its really about fearing logis being better at slaying, but about logis just simply being better than assaults in a general sense because of disadvantages vs benefits being in favor of the logis.

Okay this may seem a bit ranty, but its just my observations, no dev bashing here.

I'm all for across the board consistency.

Here the assaults suits are getting a really big nerf. From what i can tell from the picture, logis get 0.25 m/s buff, the assault suits roughly 0.5 m/s speed nerf, commandos .35 roughly speed buff.

The Min Assault will be as fast the current Min Logi. Caldari and Gallente as slow as the current Amarr logi. And that is really, really slow. The Amarr assaults are gettin the speed of current heavy suits. Oh wow. Thats a little too much Mr. Rattati.

In a Foot race, post changes, guessing roughly of course.

1. Min scout 5.7 m/s

2. Gal Scout Caldari Scout 5.4 m/s

3. Amarr scout, Min Logi 5.25 m/s

4. Gal Logi, Caldari Logi, Min Basic 5 m/s

5. Min Assult 4.85 m/s

6. Amarr Logi, Gallente basic, Caldari Basic 4.75 m/s

7. Gallente Assult, Caldari Assault, Amarr Basic, Minmatar commando 4.6 m/s

8. Amarr assault, Caldari Commando, Gallente Commando, Min heavy basic 4.4 m/s

10. Minmatar Setinel 4.25 m/s

11. Amarr commando, caldari heavy, gallente heavy 4.2 m/s

12.Caldari setinel, gellente setinel 3.9 m/s

13. Amarr heavy 4.85 m/s

14. Amarr setinel 3.6 m/s



With the planned tiericide, I confidently predict the return of the slayer Logi. Identical slots, more fitting space, and now faster than the assault suits.

After all, the Min Logi will have a 4/4/4 slot layout at all tiers, and is getting the min assaut speed. Fit militia equipment to free up fitting space and the ADV min logi becomes the current Proto Min Assault. You can apply the same logic to the other assaults with dare i say it, lackluster bonuses. A cal logi with 5/3/3 slots or a slower caldari assault that can reload. Gal logi with extra fitting space or a slow gal assault that has less dispersion? And the Amarr assult....well might as well run a commando or heavy suit instead, more HP and more fire power, and identical if not faster speeds.

I can't wait for the forums will begin to erupt about the min logi's s hit box detection, etc etc. Pretty much every thing they spull out of thier butts about the min assault witll be applied to the min Logi.


Suggetion: Tighten up the assault speeds. Start the minmatar at 5.1 m.s, Gal calari at 4.9 and end with the Amarr at 4.6 m/s Slightly slower than thier respective racial logis, but certainly faster then comandos.

I appreciate the thought, but there is a reason I am trying to move away from "feelings" and more to math and facts. The design needs to make sense, and players trade speed for tank, that's why dropsuits need to fit on the curve. If you don't want less speed, then the only way is less tank, but we already buffed tank for a reason and I don't want to change that. Speed has never been normalized properly before, and it needs to be done on a stable foundation, i.e. the speed/ehp curve.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the qualitative value. I do think the assaults' bonuses are canceled out by the logitics' bonuses, so I don't count it as a point for the worth of assaults vs logistics and their equipment.

Anyway, I'm still not convinced the assaults need a speed nerf. I would be alright if it was something small, but the proposal is far too drastic, and undermines the assault's role of being a mobile frontline fighter that rushes objectives. Furthermore, I think the logis would be in a good place with the speed buff without having to nerf assaults.

I meant to say "Its NOT really about fearing logis being better at slaying, but about logis just simply being better than assaults in a general sense because of disadvantages vs benefits being in favor of the logis," but I didn't edit the post fast enough. Seems like you know what I meant, but felt I should clarify.

So if you buffed every suit in the game save the heavy suit, this would not be a heavy nerf?

Go back to school

While you're at it, mind fixing the Gallente speed being the same as Caldari?

Gallente are supposed to be very fast for short bursts of speed (MWD eating capacitor).
We could simulate that by giving Gallente similar sprint speed to Minmatar, but very bad stamina.

Would help the Duvolle too, in the whole "get close and rekt" part.

See that's where it gets really tricky because you're then dealing with a qualitative analysis of relative worth between Assault Bonuses (and you're right only 2 are really worth it) and having more equipment. I personally feel that people seem to put more worth in the equipment than they should, mostly due to leftover fear from when Logistics were stupidly broken, but again that's just a personal assessment.

I think what Rattati is really going for here is "How can we make all suits feel roughly equally survivable?" and I feel that's a good direction to go with it. And as you have stated, the tradeoff of speed vs defense makes the suits 'equal' which I also think is a good thing. At which point my main question is "How can we make the Assault Bonuses feel like they're a fair tradeoff from the Logistics equipment?"

Sadly I fear the answer is probably "Well if only the Commandos and Assaults were combined into one suit....." but that gets really tricky because it would basically mean the removal of Commandos from the game, which would likely be a nightmare on many fronts. Plus I have some pretty strong personal bias in that I love my Commando Q_Q

So I guess for me I would say to all of the Assault players out there:

"Assuming this speed/hp ratio goes through, what sort of changes to Assaults would you want to see in order to make the tradeoff between Assault and Logistics worth it, and solidify the Assault as the better slayer suit?"

I don't agree with this ideal that speed and HP need to be inversely proportion especially if it takes precedence over the logical attributes of suit roles.

As a Logi I don't need to be faster than Assaults. I don't want to out run the guys I am supporting. If anything I want to be as fast as them.

As an assault I choose to fit my suit for speed so I can constantly be pressuring my opponents. Having less speed only serves to punish the lower end of the assault speed spectrum. The Amarr Assault was never fast in the first place, why is it being penalised again?

On a second note... making sure all equipment slots are filled is almost useless, too...

Slayer logi with 3 or 4 compact nanohives?

Slayer logi with 3 or 4 compact nanohives?

increase CPU/PG fitting bonuses for logis