No, in fact it would not, a nerf is a reduction, unless the heavy suit was in fact reduced in some fashion, then it is not a nerf.

Are you unfamiliar with meaning and cause/effect?

...What?
Did you notice the other part?
Nerf stamina?

I want Gallente to be what they are supposed to be, quick sprinters, terrible long distance runners.

The effect would be the reduction in viability of the heavy suit comparatively to other suits, thus a nerf, Imagine all suits get triple the base ehp other than the heavy. Focus really hard and understand. This would be a heavy nerf.

Go back to school

I'm not interested in debating with someone that doesn't understand and won't stay on the OP's topic, troll away you will be taking to a wall.

if Gallente becomes the bat out of hell I would severely nerf their stamina regent severely in a manner most serious.

Okay this may seem a bit ranty, but its just my observations, no dev bashing here.

I'm all for across the board consistency.

Here the assaults suits are getting a really big nerf. From what i can tell from the picture, logis get 0.25 m/s buff, the assault suits roughly 0.5 m/s speed nerf, commandos .35 roughly speed buff.

The Min Assault will be as fast the current Min Logi. Caldari and Gallente as slow as the current Amarr logi. And that is really, really slow. The Amarr assaults are gettin the speed of current heavy suits. Oh wow. Thats a little too much Mr. Rattati.

In a Foot race, post changes, guessing roughly of course.

1. Min scout 5.7 m/s

2. Gal Scout Caldari Scout 5.4 m/s

3. Amarr scout, Min Logi 5.25 m/s

4. Gal Logi, Caldari Logi, Min Basic 5 m/s

5. Min Assult 4.85 m/s

6. Amarr Logi, Gallente basic, Caldari Basic 4.75 m/s

7. Gallente Assult, Caldari Assault, Amarr Basic, Minmatar commando 4.6 m/s

8. Amarr assault, Caldari Commando, Gallente Commando, Min heavy basic 4.4 m/s

10. Minmatar Setinel 4.25 m/s

11. Amarr commando, caldari heavy, gallente heavy 4.2 m/s

12.Caldari setinel, gellente setinel 3.9 m/s

13. Amarr heavy 4.85 m/s

14. Amarr setinel 3.6 m/s



With the planned tiericide, I confidently predict the return of the slayer Logi. Identical slots, more fitting space, and now faster than the assault suits.

After all, the Min Logi will have a 4/4/4 slot layout at all tiers, and is getting the min assaut speed. Fit militia equipment to free up fitting space and the ADV min logi becomes the current Proto Min Assault. You can apply the same logic to the other assaults with dare i say it, lackluster bonuses. A cal logi with 5/3/3 slots or a slower caldari assault that can reload. Gal logi with extra fitting space or a slow gal assault that has less dispersion? And the Amarr assult....well might as well run a commando or heavy suit instead, more HP and more fire power, and identical if not faster speeds.

I can't wait for the forums will begin to erupt about the min logi's s hit box detection, etc etc. Pretty much every thing they spull out of thier butts about the min assault witll be applied to the min Logi.


Suggetion: Tighten up the assault speeds. Start the minmatar at 5.1 m.s, Gal calari at 4.9 and end with the Amarr at 4.6 m/s Slightly slower than thier respective racial logis, but certainly faster then comandos.

that was part of the original suggestion

not saying anything about the stamina pool i mean it could be a reasonable sized one just it take forever to come back.

Amarr meanwhile would just have stupid amounts of stamina while being slow.

Haven't down the thread, but wouldn't it be logical at that point to make armor plates reduce stam.

Haven't down the thread, but wouldn't it be logical at that point to make armor plates reduce stam.

No, in fact it would not, a nerf is a reduction, unless the heavy suit was in fact reduced in some fashion, then it is not a nerf.

Are you unfamiliar with meaning and cause/effect?

That would be backwards actually, if its a %, those with the least amount of stamina would be effected the least, while those with the most stamina would be effected the most.



I will probably regret responding here, but only because this irked me back in closed beta when discussing balance, no hostilities intended or taking of sides, just counteracting this one very specific line of thought.

Everything is relative, when we say heavies have high ehp, its in comparison to everything else, its that they have high ehp compared to the other suits. What is 5000 if not just a number? Compare that to 100 or to 4000 and the relationships they share with the original number of 5000 changes dramatically.

The concept of balance is understanding these relationships, and the overall modifying of relationships can either take on the form modifying one item or modifying everything else. Nerf or buff labels are applied to the outlier or target of which the relationship changes were intended to impact.

Haven't down the thread, but wouldn't it be logical at that point to make armor plates reduce stam.

I appreciate the thought, but there is a reason I am trying to move away from "feelings" and more to math and facts. The design needs to make sense, and players trade speed for tank, that's why dropsuits need to fit on the curve. If you don't want less speed, then the only way is less tank, but we already buffed tank for a reason and I don't want to change that. Speed has never been normalized properly before, and it needs to be done on a stable foundation, i.e. the speed/ehp curve.

True, and i'm not knocking the logic of what your putting together. As I understand it, you want the fastest member of one class to be at the same speed as the slowest member of the next class, because each class has higher potential eHP.

Fastest medium = slowest light suit
Fastest heavy suit = Slowest medium suit.


Overall its pretty decent with the exception of the Amarr Assault.

A Assault has roughly 200 more ehp than the Amarr logi bout half a meter slower.

GA and CA commandos with 200 more base eHP will be same speed as A. Assault.

Min commando with roughly 170 more eHP will be faster than A.Assault.

So instead of a smooth curve, theres a big dip for the A. Assaults and a spike for the commandos.

I'm suggestion this can be smoothed out by slightly increasing the proposed speed changes for the assault class, and slight decrease for the commando changes. Not by much, just by 0.5 meter in either direction.

The fastest heavy suits is the Min commando, and the Amarr assault being the slowest medium suit, thier speeds should be roughly the same. Then you have a smooth balanced curve of speed and eHP.

The Min Logi getting its first ever buff? Logi suits and Commando suits, my two primary play styles, are getting a buff? I never thought I would see the day!!!

Is the Logi speed buff for movement speed only, or sprint speed as well? Will Logis move faster, but Assaults sprint faster?

The Slayer Logi QQ is expected, but you are seriously nerfing yourself by trying to make a Logi perform an Assaults role...

Good changes and the beginnings of some real differentials between the logi and the Commando roles.

The meta of the game at the moment is too geared to slayers at the moment and the logibro's in particular are taking a hit in their gameplay at the moment.

I've been thinking my Galmando could do with an extra slot as well, either low for extra armour rep or high for extra agility.

This is just the beginning of some love towards these two classes so post your thoughts here guys.

I am not worried about killer bees.

I am not worried about killer bees.

sprint and strafe speeds are just multipliers off of movement speed, so all go up.

Coolio.

Have you considered forcing all equipment slots to be filled to make a valid fit?

Giving Assaults two Light weapons would ideally fix tons of problems with the game, while also letting us push Logis into the speed & eHP territory they need to really fulfill their role as in-the-trenches support.


[Commandos below]

[quote=Celus Ivara]
Giving Assaults two Light weapons would ideally fix tons of problems with the game, while also letting us push Logis into the speed & eHP territory they need to really fulfill their role as in-the-trenches support.


[Commandos below]

That's not necessary actually, it just works out that way because such a system is linear as well. Instead, the suits have been placed on the curve, so as to give that impression, and because it is intuitive, to a degree. But you can also place a dropsuit on the curve without it fitting on the "max X = min Y", and it will still be normalized.

Also, you have to take the brick fit into account. If you do that, you actully see that commandos are still below a fictional line through the data set, and assault above, etc, indicating the strengths and weaknesses of each role. Of course you don't need to brick, so everyone should be able to find an acceptable niche for his/her playstyle.

Instead of 2 light weapons, what if Assaults received half the damage bonus as Commandos? 1% to racial light weapons per level?

Assaults will still be able to tank more than a Logi, even after the buffs go live.

The brick fit may come into play after you implement another slot on commandos.

As of now, the heaviest possible bricked Cal commandos will be faster than any tier Amarr Assault with two plates on it because calmandos only have 1 low slot.

A max bricked Minando will be faster than any Amarr Assault with 2 identical plates, because proto minandos have two low slots. Other wise any adv/standard minando will be faster than any tier Amarr suit with 2 plates.

Proto Galmando with three low slots bricked may be on par via speed with an Amarr assault that dedicates 3 slots to eHP but have superior reps. ADV galmando will be faster than any amarr assault

Unbricked amarr assaults will certainly be slower than max bricked adv/standard commandos, and most likeley be slower than two max bricked proto commandos. IMO its bit unbalanced, especially for a race thats supposed to stack HP.

I can tell that i'm gettin a bit too back-and-forth with this. Delving into hypothertical situations a bit much. Feedback doesn't mean debating your work. Concerning assaults i got some faith in ya.

It will just need a comparision with your brick tanked chart. See how fast each suit can move tanked, and then polish of any edges.