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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
761
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:07:00 -
[301] - Quote
Aeon Amadi used cloak! its super effective!
Cat Merc uses strafe! Its super effective! Critical Hit. Aeon Amadi has fainted. |
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:09:00 -
[302] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Aeon Amadi used cloak! its super effective! Cat Merc uses strafe! Its super effective! Critical Hit. Aeon Amadi has fainted.
Psssht, the Ion Pistol was totally the best part.
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
761
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:09:00 -
[303] - Quote
I like to think Im holding my own head in the knowledge as well, probably the best way to view open discussion imo (as long as no one is trolling) |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:09:00 -
[304] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Than **** it. Nerf the Assaults, watch how well that works out for you guys ...
Aeon almost has a point. The vast majority of the playerbase are running Assault at the moment. If we nerf their favorite suits, we might lose some of them, even if it is warranted and even it brings about better balance.
I'd suggest softening the blow by rolling out better "gank" racial bonuses for Gal Assault and Cal Assault alongside potential mobility changes.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Archduke Ferd1nand
Nos Nothi
488
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:10:00 -
[305] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:In either case, your argument has -absolutely nothing to do- with Assault speed GA Assaults are 6% slower than MN Assaults. They're only slightly slower than your "problem child" unit. Remove the problem child MN Assault, and I believe that GA Assault will take its place. 6% speed, infinitely better stamina (larger pool AND extremely fast regen), hidden 5% hacking modifier, they all add up. You also forget that the 6% difference grows when both put a kin cat on due to math. And one can use that speed better than the other because stamina. If you think the 6% extra speed is: A. Small B. The only thing giving Min advantages You're just plain wrong. I'm not going to enter this argument beyond this, but this is just dumb. If 6% speed isn't the only thing giving minmitar assaults an "advantage" over Gallente, then what is? Is it the lower HP values? Perhaps the lower repair rates? Or could it be the inherent QQGALLENTEQQ that seems to have imbedded itself inside of every Gallente drop suit? Or maybe it's how 6% strafe speed > The HP you get from half a complex extender? Because yes that's the HP difference between a Gal Ass and Min Ass. And there's no way to increase strafe speed?
6% strafe speed is a fair amount, but at a certain point it doesn't matter. This is one of those instances. Strafing is more about technique than speed.
Speed is useful to a certain point, but really it comes down to skill of your opponent at hitting you, and your skill at avoiding it.
You could give people like Regnyum or myself or others a heavy suits, and we could out strafe most players. You could give a blueberry a minmitar assault with the strafe speed of speedy gonzales and he'd get killed just the same.
Also, sorry if I am rather incoherent, it is currently 1:00 AM where I live.
BRB, looking for socks
PSN: tommygunboy2080
I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:14:00 -
[306] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:alias lycan wrote:Cross Atu wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:The Min Logi getting its first ever buff? Logi suits and Commando suits, my two primary play styles, are getting a buff? I never thought I would see the day!!!
Is the Logi speed buff for movement speed only, or sprint speed as well? Will Logis move faster, but Assaults sprint faster?
The Slayer Logi QQ is expected, but you are seriously nerfing yourself by trying to make a Logi perform an Assaults role... I am not worried about killer bees. sprint and strafe speeds are just multipliers off of movement speed, so all go up. As a CPM and thus community rep I feel it important to confirm, publicly and on the record that CCP Rattati is not a sufferer of melissophobia, unlike some poor unfortunates in our community.  Rattati wasnt around long enough to remember. The real vets still have scars from the numerous stings. I believe rattati mentioned something about cal logis being punished for old sins. Well the sin was it was the only suit that could have 600 shielding with room to spare. I've played longer than you, or a matter of fact anyone here. I was the first alpha tester and have played every build ever since 
Can I add you as a contact so I can see your stats? |
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:15:00 -
[307] - Quote
Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:
6% strafe speed is a fair amount, but at a certain point it doesn't matter. This is one of those instances. Strafing is more about technique than speed.
Speed is useful to a certain point, but really it comes down to skill of your opponent at hitting you, and your skill at avoiding it.
You could give people like Regnyum or myself or others a heavy suits, and we could out strafe most players. You could give a blueberry a minmitar assault with the strafe speed of speedy gonzales and he'd get killed just the same.
Also, sorry if I am rather incoherent, it is currently 1:00 AM where I live.
You're perfectly coherent, no need to worry about that
And while it's true strafe speed is more about technique, you can't honestly say a heavy strafes just as well as a medium frame.
The 6% extra strafe speed is enough to make the difference, and is certainly far more valuable than extra 30HP.
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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Oswald Rehnquist
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:15:00 -
[308] - Quote
Just for the record I'm neutral on the assault speed changes, if they keep their speed or not, I'm don't care, I was just pointing out the actually numerical differences between scout ewar vs medium ewar, which people often label as a massive scout strength without actually going into the numbers.
The value of cloaks are subjective, ewar isn't, its numerically driven.
Below 28 dB
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:16:00 -
[309] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
Can I add you as a contact so I can see your stats?
His player name is a secret.
If you find it, you get banned.
Rattati said so himself :P
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
761
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:17:00 -
[310] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You also forget that the 6% difference grows when both put a kin cat on due to math.
5.30 m/s - MN Assault base movement 5.00 m/s - GA Assault base movement Difference: 6% 9.73 m/s - MN Assault + 2 KinCats 9.18 m/s - GA Assault + 2 KinCats Difference: 6% (because maths)  Yes, I was wrong there, I'm not the best thinker 10 minutes after waking up. Doesn't change how that's still 6% extra speed, which I don't know how much scouts value it but for an Assault that's quite the big advantage, and you can use that speed almost constantly due to stamina regen being off the charts.
The thrust of your original claim was correct, that the extra speed translates into even more extra speed after kincats are in place. You just made the claim in regards to relative % speed instead of relative absolute speed. |
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Archduke Ferd1nand
Nos Nothi
488
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:17:00 -
[311] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:
6% strafe speed is a fair amount, but at a certain point it doesn't matter. This is one of those instances. Strafing is more about technique than speed.
Speed is useful to a certain point, but really it comes down to skill of your opponent at hitting you, and your skill at avoiding it.
You could give people like Regnyum or myself or others a heavy suits, and we could out strafe most players. You could give a blueberry a minmitar assault with the strafe speed of speedy gonzales and he'd get killed just the same.
Also, sorry if I am rather incoherent, it is currently 1:00 AM where I live.
You're perfectly coherent, no need to worry about that And while it's true strafe speed is more about technique, you can't honestly say a heavy strafes just as well as a medium frame. The 6% extra strafe speed is enough to make the difference, and is certainly far more valuable than extra 30HP.
Hitbox is the main reason for that, though the speed difference between heavy and medium is much greater than 6%, so that argument is also rather silly...
Agreed, it is more valuable than 30 HP. However, Minmitar assault also has ****** regen, and needs to be toned down in HP anyways.
BRB, looking for socks
PSN: tommygunboy2080
I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:17:00 -
[312] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:
You also forget that the 6% difference grows when both put a kin cat on due to math.
5.30 m/s - MN Assault base movement 5.00 m/s - GA Assault base movement Difference: 6% 9.73 m/s - MN Assault + 2 KinCats 9.18 m/s - GA Assault + 2 KinCats Difference: 6% (because maths) Yes, I was wrong there, I'm not the best thinker 10 minutes after waking up. Doesn't change how that's still 6% extra speed, which I don't know how much scouts value it but for an Assault that's quite the big advantage, and you can use that speed almost constantly due to stamina regen being off the charts. The thrust of your original claim was correct, that the extra speed translates into even more extra speed after kincats are in place. You just made the claim in regards to relative % speed instead of relative absolute speed.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
As I said, not the best thinker so soon after waking up 
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:25:00 -
[313] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Just for the record I'm neutral on the assault speed changes
Honestly that's my stance as well.
While I don't think speed change is necessary or called for, I don't care enough to protest.
I will let the meta play out and see what happens.
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:31:00 -
[314] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
I'd suggest softening the blow by rolling out better "gank" racial bonuses for Gal Assault and Cal Assault alongside potential mobility changes.
Edit: And/Or the 1.4 ---> 1.5 assault sprint multiplier
(my two cents)
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:32:00 -
[315] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:True Adamance wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:
I get your point, but even if all of the racial assault bonuses actually made a difference (only 2 really do), that still doesn't trump the multitude of equipment slots. Its really about fearing logis being better at slaying, but about logis just simply being better than assaults in a general sense because of disadvantages vs benefits being in favor of the logis.
See that's where it gets really tricky because you're then dealing with a qualitative analysis of relative worth between Assault Bonuses (and you're right only 2 are really worth it) and having more equipment. I personally feel that people seem to put more worth in the equipment than they should, mostly due to leftover fear from when Logistics were stupidly broken, but again that's just a personal assessment. I think what Rattati is really going for here is "How can we make all suits feel roughly equally survivable?" and I feel that's a good direction to go with it. And as you have stated, the tradeoff of speed vs defense makes the suits 'equal' which I also think is a good thing. At which point my main question is "How can we make the Assault Bonuses feel like they're a fair tradeoff from the Logistics equipment?" Sadly I fear the answer is probably "Well if only the Commandos and Assaults were combined into one suit....." but that gets really tricky because it would basically mean the removal of Commandos from the game, which would likely be a nightmare on many fronts. Plus I have some pretty strong personal bias in that I love my Commando Q_Q So I guess for me I would say to all of the Assault players out there: "Assuming this speed/hp ratio goes through, what sort of changes to Assaults would you want to see in order to make the tradeoff between Assault and Logistics worth it, and solidify the Assault as the better slayer suit?" I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the qualitative value. I do think the assaults' bonuses are canceled out by the logitics' bonuses, so I don't count it as a point for the worth of assaults vs logistics and their equipment. Anyway, I'm still not convinced the assaults need a speed nerf. I would be alright if it was something small, but the proposal is far too drastic, and undermines the assault's role of being a mobile frontline fighter that rushes objectives. Furthermore, I think the logis would be in a good place with the speed buff without having to nerf assaults. I meant to say " Its NOT really about fearing logis being better at slaying, but about logis just simply being better than assaults in a general sense because of disadvantages vs benefits being in favor of the logis," but I didn't edit the post fast enough. Seems like you know what I meant, but felt I should clarify. This is what I mean. Assaults are as Kage put it "Mobile Frontline Fighters that rush objectives". This is their fundamental role. Ensuring that their are always players on the frontlines pushing for the objective. Speed nerfs directly and rather significantly hinder this role. Only one suit at this time to my knowledge is "bleeding over" into the Scout Class the others seem relatively balanced in terms of their movement speeds without modifying them via modules. Logistics I can understand want to have some bonuses but in being one I realise I don't need to be faster than an Assault to do my job well, if anything I want to roughly be the same speed as them as there is no point in out running the team I am supposed to be supporting, if I am with multiple forms of equipment then I am directly bleeding into the Scout Class. Were my Assault's Speed nerfed and the Logi buffed significantly I would just tank my Amarr Logi better and use that as an Assault suit for its speed and being able to carry equipment. If the speed values were standardised or the Logi buffed to Assault Speeds the suits would still in their current forms retain enough unique traits to merit the use of the Assault. Logis need to be able to get out of danger, and follow their friends even if the logi is brick tanked for the occasion. A non tanked Logi can barely keep up with a brick assault right now.
Getting out of danger? That's an occupational hazard that's part of their job. But keeping up with other units? Just give logis boat loads of stamina so they can just sprint everywhere.
What I hate seeing are logis walking the sentinel dogs around on leashes all damn match. Those dudes don't do anything else. They don't revive anyone, resupply anyone, they don't scan, they just farm WPs off heavies.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard logis say they "need" a heavy. I always ask them, "for what?" Because I know all they want is to rep heavies and nothing else. Those logis are about as useful to me as redline snipers.
I'm against making logi movement speed greater than sentinel sprint speed. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 05:49:00 -
[316] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
Can I add you as a contact so I can see your stats?
His player name is a secret. If you find it, you get banned. Rattati said so himself :P
His dev account stats or can he just post his stats in a thread somewhere? I want see how some who has played this game longer than us performs. |
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:00:00 -
[317] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Cat Merc wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
Can I add you as a contact so I can see your stats?
His player name is a secret. If you find it, you get banned. Rattati said so himself :P His dev account stats or can he just post his stats in a thread somewhere? I want see how some who has played this game longer than us performs.
His dev account also has BPO officer gear :P
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
23
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:11:00 -
[318] - Quote
Latest update is;
Medium (Logistics and Assault)
Speed changes as in OP
Sprint changes,
Logis from 1.4 to 1.3 modifier, means they have the same sprint speed as they do now
Assault from 1.4 to 1.5, means they retain current sprint
Balance stamina pool and stamina regen to cover similar ground over time, sprinting/walking vs constantly running, nerf Min Assault coverage.
Any shield regen is off the table for this round, must keep focus on mobility vs ehp.
8 H/L slots at all tiers
4 EQ (unless traded)
1 LW
1 G
0 Sidearm (unless traded)
= 14 slots
CPU for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 170/260/385
PG for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 30/45/67
Fitting bonus to EQ approx 10% per level
All EQ must be fitted at all tiers
Amarr retains sidearm for EQ slot
Still don't know what to do with CA sidearm or EQ
Commandos
Same speed as proposed in OP
1 additional slot at H/L = 8 total
5 H/L
2 Light
1 EQ
Layout to align with sentinel (AM most lows, CA most highs)
same slots for all tiers
5% fitting bonus to LW to normalize PG/CPU against Sentinels
CPU for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 140/200/285
PG for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 26/37/51
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Songs of Seraphim
Negative-Feedback.
992
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:14:00 -
[319] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Latest update is;
Medium (Logistics and Assault)
Speed changes as in OP
Sprint changes,
Logis from 1.4 to 1.3 modifier, means they have the same sprint speed as they do now
Assault from 1.4 to 1.5, means they retain current sprint
Balance stamina pool and stamina regen to cover similar ground over time, sprinting/walking vs constantly running, nerf Min Assault coverage.
Any shield regen is off the table for this round, must keep focus on mobility vs ehp.
8 H/L slots at all tiers
4 EQ (unless traded)
1 LW
1 G
0 Sidearm (unless traded)
= 14 slots
CPU for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 170/260/385
PG for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 30/45/67
Fitting bonus to EQ approx 10% per level
All EQ must be fitted at all tiers
Amarr retains sidearm for EQ slot
Still don't know what to do with CA sidearm or EQ
Commandos
Same speed as proposed in OP
1 additional slot at H/L = 8 total
Layout to align with sentinel (AM most lows, CA most highs)
same slots for all tiers
5% fitting bonus to LW to normalize PG/CPU against Sentinels
CPU for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 140/200/285
PG for all factions
STD/ADV/PRO 26/37/51
I reiterate, lose the 4th low slot for a 4th equipment slot.
And make CPU/PG adjustments for the Caldari/Amarr respectively.
Caldari Loyalist
Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:18:00 -
[320] - Quote
Seems fair, though I would have liked to see how Logis played out if they retained the 1.4 modifier.
"Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - Cat wisdom
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:22:00 -
[321] - Quote
wait, what?
Same CPU and PG across the board for all races???
What?
Am I reading that right?
Sgt Kirk's Gallente Propaganda Youtube Channel
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
23
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:24:00 -
[322] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:wait, what?
Same CPU and PG across the board for all races???
What?
Am I reading that right?
If you look at the data, as I have, the differences are negligible. As explained in a previous post, I intend to balance through role bonuses and fitting costs.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:24:00 -
[323] - Quote
I was hoping logis would keep the proposed speeds, or at least be as fast as assaults. I guess these revisions are acceptable though.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
23
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:35:00 -
[324] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I was hoping logis would keep the proposed speeds, or at least be as fast as assaults. I guess these revisions are acceptable though.
uh they do, it's the sprint that will differentiate. Both will retain sprint speeds, normal movement will be reduced for assault and increased for logi.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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hails8n
DEATH BY DESTRUCTION
244
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Posted - 2015.05.28 06:41:00 -
[325] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I was hoping logis would keep the proposed speeds, or at least be as fast as assaults. I guess these revisions are acceptable though. uh they do, it's the sprint that will differentiate. Both will retain sprint speeds, normal movement will be reduced for assault and increased for logi.
Why didn't you say this in the first place? Its just a Nerf to super strafing assaults. GG
Petition to ban the trainyard map.
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
621
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Posted - 2015.05.28 07:00:00 -
[326] - Quote
Can we apply the same modifiers to the Assault jump height?
I know i sound like a broken record, but I hate not being able to jump those goddamn short barriers!
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 07:21:00 -
[327] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Can we apply the same modifiers to the Assault jump height?
I know i sound like a broken record, but I hate not being able to jump those goddamn short barriers!
Why can't you use myofibrils? They increase jump height |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
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Posted - 2015.05.28 07:21:00 -
[328] - Quote
Just something I was playing around with, an alternative idea on quantifying Mobility vs HP.
This is just a rough, conceptual project (because this is what sickness looks like) so by no means are the numbers anything you should focus on. More or less showing an idea for a methodology of design.
I present two test case studies that net fairly similar results but do so by buffing different stats. I also understand that the Mobility Index is tricky to come up with since it attempts to assign a cumulative worth of various stats and their weight within that sum. Math and ****.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s-Y9wlM7v8P6KT0xsjhkQqruUPDmJkuXWrTU2mswmMg/edit?usp=sharing
Who knows, it may just be gibberish, haven't had much sleep lately and if this keeps up I'm going to start looking like Rattati.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 07:27:00 -
[329] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:wait, what?
Same CPU and PG across the board for all races???
What?
Am I reading that right? If you look at the data, as I have, the differences are negligible. As explained in a previous post, I intend to balance through role bonuses and fitting costs.
Will you also balance the weapons and suit combos?
For example. It had always annoyed me that gal logi or any suit using damage mods out damage and out range cal assault with a RR. My argument can be proven mathematically. |
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
622
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Posted - 2015.05.28 07:31:00 -
[330] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:Can we apply the same modifiers to the Assault jump height?
I know i sound like a broken record, but I hate not being able to jump those goddamn short barriers! Why can't you use myofibrils? They increase jump height
I'm aware they exist, I'm saying the baseline is too low
likewise you shouldn't need them on a heavy to jump a curb
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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