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Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:38:00 - [421] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 912	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:40:00 - [422] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. Ah! Forgot about that. Please add the Min assault speed difference correction from the OP as well
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:40:00 - [423] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: So what's the bridge going to be between the Scout and the Assault after this? What if I want a suit that has mobility without as much of an EHP hit of a Scout and EHP without the mobility hit of the Assault? What am I supposed to run as the bridge point between the two..? Slayer-Logi? EDIT: Because if I have to, that's what I'm going to do. Provided that logi uses all of it's (soon to be required) equipment slots, then yes I think that's where things will land based on the current proposed changes we're seeing. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:44:00 - [424] - Quote Gal Assault (current) x4 Complex Reactive Plates x1 Complex Cardiac Regulator x3 Myrofibril x1 Duvolle Assault Rifle x1 Boundless Breach SMG x1 Core Locus Grenade x1 CreoDron Active Scanner 194s 608a (802 EHP) 4.8m/s 16.5hp/s repair Gal Slayer Logi 2 x4 Complex Reactive Plates x1 Complex Ferroscale Plate x3 Myrofibril x1 Duvolle Assault Rifle x1 Core Locus Grenade x1 CreoDron Active Scanner x1 Wiyrkomi Triage Hive x1 K-2 Nanohive 112s (-82) 571a (-37) (683 EHP)(-119) 4.80m/s 17hp/s (+70hp/s) Same movement speed Slightly less base stamina (gonna miss my cardiac regulator but oh well) Similar EHP (I don't rely on shields anyhow) No sidearm Much more equipment/utility to use --> Heightened EWAR from Active Scanner --> Greater regen/repair from Triage hives --> Spare ammo from K-2 hives Thanks guys, I actually got what I wanted here :3 Can't wait for these changes, actually. I actually get a -LOT- of benefit out of the equipment here. Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:44:00 - [425] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. Ah! Forgot about that. Please add the Min assault speed difference correction from the OP as well At +0.5 Logi, the MN Logi pushes well into Scout movement territory. In my opinion, we need to be careful with high base movements ... this MN Logi would be a better at wiggle weaving than today's MN Assault. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 912	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:45:00 - [426] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. I think I'm being an idiot! The OP has a logi speed buff of about 0.3 not 0.5. So you were right the first time. Sorry I doubted the spreadsheeting!
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 913	Posted - 2015.05.28 16:56:00 - [427] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Assault vs slayer logi You will have to replace that ferroscale plate on the logi for a cardiac regulator for a fair comparison. With the proposed changes you could fit a complex plate on the logi instead of a reactive and have similar movement speeds. The assault will still have more hp and stamina, and a sidearm. The logi will have lots of nice equipment. The assault will have much better sprint speed. I still think you'd be better off slaying in the assault.
Booby Tuesdays Bad Mother Thukkers 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:00:00 - [428] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. Ah! Forgot about that. Please add the Min assault speed difference correction from the OP as well At +0.5 Logi, the MN Logi pushes well into Scout movement territory. In my opinion, we need to be careful with high base movements ... this MN Logi would be better at wiggle weaving than today's MN Assault. Yes, but please don't forget that the Min Logi starts with less HP than the Amarr Scout. Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:02:00 - [429] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Assault vs slayer logi You will have to replace that ferroscale plate on the logi for a cardiac regulator for a fair comparison. With the proposed changes you could fit a complex plate on the logi instead of a reactive and have similar movement speeds. The assault will still have more hp and stamina, and a sidearm. The logi will have lots of nice equipment. The assault will have much better sprint speed. I still think you'd be better off slaying in the assault. Lol, not really. Better EWAR is situational awareness, much better repair out of the Wiyrkomi Triage without having to worry about ammo/EWAR, better movement speed... Sprint is nice getting into the fight but it doesn't help you once you're having to shoot back. And if it really gets that bad I'll just switch out for a Kin-Cat. Because I can recover Sprint Speed, but I can't recover movement speed =P Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 385	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:02:00 - [430] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: [Why do you need to nerf the assaults? A Speed / HP curve cannot exist without tuning Assault HP or Assault Speed. If Assault HP potential were dramatically reduced, they'd have a far tougher time assaulting positions defended by Heavies. You didn't answer my (main) question or address any of my points, in this post or the one before. Well done. I donGÇÖt care about your speed curve, I care about the roles in this game and their interaction with each other. Gimping the assault just so it fits on your pretty graph is not a good enough reason to nerf it. =ƒÿ¦

Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:04:00 - [431] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: [Why do you need to nerf the assaults? A Speed / HP curve cannot exist without tuning Assault HP or Assault Speed. If Assault HP potential were dramatically reduced, they'd have a far tougher time assaulting positions defended by Heavies. You didn't answer my (main) question or address any of my points, in this post or the one before. Well done. He's startlingly good at that, isn't he? Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:05:00 - [432] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. I think I'm being an idiot! The OP has a logi speed buff of about 0.3 not 0.5. So you were right the first time. Sorry I doubted the spreadsheeting! Added a sheet with Rattati's Graph values for easier side-by-side comparison. > Google Doc < Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:05:00 - [433] - Quote I marvel at the now 20 pages of theorycraft hair-pulling over "slayer-logis" when the balancer is the cpu/pg reduction and eq fitting element that finally appears on page 17. I think Pokey mentions it on page 4 or 5, but still. Crisis Averted, people. SlayerLogis aren't coming back like you think, never were. Question about that set of figures that does finally appear on page 17, are those cpu/pg values proposed the final values? Pre-skills values? And 10% fitting on eq, that is also in addition to existing logi bonuses, correct? Are eq load costs going to be modified at all? Are those eq bonuses going to be flat or racially varied? I've kept up on the logistics/support thread and recognize much of this stemming from there so definitley see the progress but the last 20 pages is resteering us into overall wash territory at risk of nerfs. Theres obviously several irons in the fire at once here, what with this happening concurrently with the powercore proposal moving forward. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Booby Tuesdays Bad Mother Thukkers 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:07:00 - [434] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. Ah! Forgot about that. Please add the Min assault speed difference correction from the OP as well At +0.5 Logi, the MN Logi pushes well into Scout movement territory. In my opinion, we need to be careful with high base movements ... this MN Logi would be better at wiggle weaving than today's MN Assault. Also, what does a straight swap of current movement speeds between Logis and Assaults, plus using the 1.55 mod for Assaults, and 1.4 for Logis? Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 917	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:14:00 - [435] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Why do all your sprint speeds have an extra 5% multiplier? I interpreted Rattati's latest comment to suggest +0.5 logi speed, - 0.3 assaults speed, not +/- 0.3. Looking at the OP, Min assault speeds should be an equal amount higher than Amarr speeds are lower. So 4.9 rather than 5. There's a 1% per level passive upgrade to sprint speed afford by the Biotics skill (or perhaps the KinCat skill ... it's been awhile don't recall offhand). I'll add a +0.5 Logi, -0.3 assault sheet. I think I'm being an idiot! The OP has a logi speed buff of about 0.3 not 0.5. So you were right the first time. Sorry I doubted the spreadsheeting! Added a sheet with Rattati's Graph values for easier side-by-side comparison. > Google Doc < Does it really matter if there's a bit of speed overlap? It's not an issue for me really, other factors should balance it. So, my understanding of where we are now, is the logi stats from the original graph, with a 1.3 sprint multiplier, and the assault stats from the +/- 0.3 tab, but with a Min assault base speed of 4.9.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:14:00 - [436] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Assault vs slayer logi You will have to replace that ferroscale plate on the logi for a cardiac regulator for a fair comparison. With the proposed changes you could fit a complex plate on the logi instead of a reactive and have similar movement speeds. The assault will still have more hp and stamina, and a sidearm. The logi will have lots of nice equipment. The assault will have much better sprint speed. I still think you'd be better off slaying in the assault. It's outside the scope of this proposal but the assault should also have meaningful racial bonuses to assaulting (i.e. to it's dps levels). The assault role is defined by it's slayer ability, that hinges on weapon slots, the logistics role hinges on it's support ability which is dependent on equipment slots. Both require utility slots to stay alive and functional. The frequent misconception is that there's an issue when the logi can survive in combat/get from place to place, as if that base utility hampers the assault role. It is not the logi being viable that is an issue, it is the assault having lack luster role definition/supporting mechanics. Give effective racial skills that provide the assault with lethality and they'll perform their role quite nicely, rather than relying on other roles/suits to be gimped just so they can function (as is currently the case). CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:17:00 - [437] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Also, what does a straight swap of current movement speeds between Logis and Assaults, plus using the 1.55 mod for Assaults, and 1.4 for Logis? Added. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 385	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:20:00 - [438] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: [Why do you need to nerf the assaults? A Speed / HP curve cannot exist without tuning Assault HP or Assault Speed. If Assault HP potential were dramatically reduced, they'd have a far tougher time assaulting positions defended by Heavies. You didn't answer my (main) question or address any of my points, in this post or the one before. Well done. He's startlingly good at that, isn't he? Almost freakishly soGÇª =ƒÿ¦
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:21:00 - [439] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: It's outside the scope of this proposal but the assault should also have meaningful racial bonuses to assaulting (i.e. to it's dps levels). What you mean like Commandos? EDIT: Yet again we run into an issue where Assaults have no describable role that isn't over-shadowed by something else and in an effort to fix something else we put them on the back burner, promising fixes and changes later on... Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:27:00 - [440] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: It's outside the scope of this proposal but the assault should also have meaningful racial bonuses to assaulting (i.e. to it's dps levels). What you mean like Commandos? Depends on what you mean by "like Commandos" specifically but yes, the Commando also has a role largely/currently defined by slayer ability. This is actually a long standing issue derived from earlier design choices because the precepts of those two roles overlap so heavily. That unfortunate "legacy quandary" aside, as a general method I'd say yes, assaults should have something like commandos in the sense of racial bonuses that give them better than standard dps output with their racial weapons. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!

Cyrus Grevare WarRavens 470	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:30:00 - [441] - Quote Hi Folks, On the process of adding temporary items to protofits.com, basically the base dropsuits going through CCP Rattati's rebalancing efforts starting with logistics. Doing them one at a time for those interested and avid users of the site. Since some skills need changing I'm temporarily modifying the skills too (as in 10% PG/CPU reduction for eq. for logistics instead of 5%, etc) Regards www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:31:00 - [442] - Quote Alright, I see a lot of Bullshit backwards logic in here and I'm about to set this straight because a lot of you guy's have your heads so buried in spreadsheets that you need a good slap across the face once in a while to wake you the hell up. First off, speed is the absolute most essential component of gunplay in this game. It allows one to dodge bullets, find cover and out maneuver the enemy. I have yet to see a single good reason why it is that assault speed is being stripped down while everything around it is being buffed. The assault suit is popular because it most closely reflects the playstyle of many other FPS games and actually works now. It's a suit that requires versatility and durability. I see no reason not to buff the other suits, but double nerfing assault suits by taking their speed and buffing the suits closest to their performance parameters is mindbogglingly shortsighted. Secondly, these changes put assault suits movement speed down to the speed of a commando (except for one that barely out paces them). So the only thing that the assault has over the commando now would be.... Hitbox and grenade slot? And slightly better regen stats? Commandos are slow because their abilities are hugely strong. Assault abilities suck by comparison, which is why they have small bonuses over them in stats with a decent amount more speed. With assaults getting a speed cut you are essential pushing people to be slayer scouts, bricked logis and speed tanked commandoes. All of which is to fill the void of the assault class you just obliterated. People will still want to play the exact same role, but they will need to pick a different suit for it. What is the point in that? Why would that be necessary? How does that benefit the game in the slightest? Next, what's with this idea that these changes will 'fix the imbalance of suits'? I'm sorry, but this is totally failed logic. You want slayers to run a slayer suit. That's the assault suit. What you're saying is 'if we nerfs the slayer suit and buff the others, people will want to try other roles'. What you are doing however is forcing slayers to look into ways to adapt other suits to fill the void left by the nerfs on the slayer suit. People aren't going to change their preferred way of playing the game just because you nerf their suit. A slayer isn't going to say 'oh, you nerfs mah slayer suits, I mights justs plays a medic now'. He or she is simply going to look for the next best way to play the game the way they wish to play. Which means using other suits for the same role, which makes this argument utterly ridiculous. You are trying to change how people want to play, but all your doing is forcing people to go out of their way to find other ways to do it. And as for this Adipem Nothi wrote: A Speed / HP curve cannot exist without tuning Assault HP or Assault Speed. If Assault HP potential were dramatically reduced, they'd have a far tougher time assaulting positions defended by Heavies. That curve is not going to work right just because it makes a pretty pattern on a chart and there are a lot more factors involved with it that hp and speed. Logi suits definitely need a buff, hell I wouldn't have issues with them having close to the same health AND speed as assaults, but the reason they need to be CLOSE and not HIGHER is that they have the edge on scanning, equipment and hacking speeds. They are a more specialized role and aren't supposed to have the combat efficacy of an assault, however by having more speed and the assault having less you pretty much give them an even combat role. You force assaults to rely on bricking since they no longer have the speed to strafe effectively (without a kb/m anyway) and remove gungame almost entirely from their role. What is the point in that? The boat left and I wasn't on the ******* boat, can someone explain the logic of that to me please? You (Ratatti) complain about assaults brick tanking, then you force them into a situation where their only real option is to brick tank? Really? REALLY? And that makes sense to you? nuclearfacepalm In short, speed > eHp and giving logi suits this much more speed than assaults gives them at least as much combat efficacy as the freshly nerfed assault suits while doing nothing to fix the power balance shift for scouts who's speed+hitbox+cloaks+scans+damps+double equipment+regen rates+etc+etc+etc will also be filling the power vacuum left behind by the slayer suit no longer doing it's job. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:33:00 - [443] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: It's outside the scope of this proposal but the assault should also have meaningful racial bonuses to assaulting (i.e. to it's dps levels). What you mean like Commandos? Depends on what you mean by "like Commandos" specifically but yes, the Commando also has a role largely/currently defined by slayer ability. This is actually a long standing issue derived from earlier design choices because the precepts of those two roles overlap so heavily. That unfortunate "legacy quandary" aside, as a general method I'd say yes, assaults should have something like commandos in the sense of racial bonuses that give them better than standard dps output with their racial weapons. But as I said before, adding buffer to Assaults with the new movement speed penalties effectively just makes them Commandos with a sidearm and grenade instead of two light weapons. I think these guys are putting way too much faith on the Sprint Speed thing because it's not much of a change to differentiate Assaults from Commandos. What'll wind up happening is what has always happened: High Mobility suit to get to where we're going (Scout or Minmatar Assault) Switch to something better once we get there (Assault/Sentinel, or in this case, Commando/Sentinel) The only way you're ever going to differentiate those two slayer roles is by orienting them to different things, something the community isn't fond off because DPS oriented Assaults are viewed in a negative light and propositions to change up Commandos (higher magazine count/longer range/etc for suppression) have been shot down repeatedly. Having players decide "That one suit that's good at killing things" and "that other suit that's good at killing things but slower and a little more durable" doesn't give variety to the roles. We're still killing things, it's just how much frustration you're willing to put up with on either spectrum (lower EHP or lower mobility). Cross Atu wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: EDIT: Yet again we run into an issue where Assaults have no describable role that isn't over-shadowed by something else and in an effort to fix something else we put them on the back burner, promising fixes and changes later on... Lack of consistent conceptual vision has been an issue for Dust starting in the early days and is a continued bane no question. It is the manifold problems caused by that very thing that makes me so adamantly in support of all CCP Rattati's initiatives to apply consistent methods game wide, such as his work in the OP. Right now things are bad in a number of ways and far too much time is spent on the forums with players bickering amongst ourselves about "who is it going to be bad for, who's turn is it to have a viable role" I'm more than tired of that back and forth and the lack of balance it is predicated upon. As such I fully support Rattati in all efforts to apply solid consistent foundations, even when such applications have undesirable short term effects, because without a long term game wide method to provide context progress is unlikely and balance will remain fleeting and nebulous. And that's fine, I agree, I'm tired of the "whos turn is it" but I've been waiting for that balance for three years now. I'm frustrated, I'm tired, and I don't want to have to spend months on end (again) waiting to get out of the "who it's bad for" rut. It's all well and good that you fully support his efforts, I would love to as well but I'm the one who's going to have to handle up on the undesirable short term effects when I was -JUST NOW- starting to feel that my role was viable through Myros. Think about who's going to be taking the hits here. Design a Skin Challenge POLL (Vote Now!)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:33:00 - [444] - Quote Cyrus Grevare wrote: Hi Folks, On the process of adding temporary items to protofits.com, basically the base dropsuits going through CCP Rattati's rebalancing efforts starting with logistics. Doing them one at a time for those interested and avid users of the site. Since some skills need changing I'm temporarily modifying the skills too (as in 10% PG/CPU reduction for eq. for logistics instead of 5%, etc) Regards ^This man, give him all your likes CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Booby Tuesdays Bad Mother Thukkers 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:34:00 - [445] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Also, what does a straight swap of current movement speeds between Logis and Assaults, plus using the 1.55 mod for Assaults, and 1.4 for Logis? Added. Interesting... The sweet spot may be 1.35 for Logis, and 1.5 for Assaults, keeping the movement speed swap. Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
CeeJ Mantis Mantodea MC 194	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:44:00 - [446] - Quote Mini-rant here: Nobody seems to like commandos, but givw the assault the commando's bonuses and weapon selection, and people seem all ln board. 2. This assault pity about how the class with the highest kills/spawn is going to be hit so hard by this small adjustment because their assault wont be the second fastest, and have more hp than a commando, hits similarly hard as a commando, and gets a bonus to weapon performance (cal is a notable exception), and has more slots than most suits in the game so you can make it do whatever you want is so hard. Seriously, the suit is not so bad if yoi are all using it, and performing well with it. 3. all this talk of compact nanohives on their new "slayer-logi" proposal fits, and nobody wants to fit a nanite injector? Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 475	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:50:00 - [447] - Quote a faster cal logi is still going to suck more than cal assault due to low shield regen and high delay.. 3 more equipment slots wont' make it any more of a slayer.. brick tank and stand on triage hives, might as well do the same with cal assault since it has much faster shield regen. faster min logi breaks hit detection.. another fotm, start skilling today. faster gal logi improves upon gal assault builds.. probably reason for buff, more fun for armor users, more triage hives, scans and nade spam. faster amar logi is good for getting those links down.. fine by me I really see no reason to buff logi speed.... there are much greater issues with the game that should be dealt with rather than how fast a logi runs and whether amar should lose it's sidearm. Caldari will still be worst logi regardless of changes.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:51:00 - [448] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Also, what does a straight swap of current movement speeds between Logis and Assaults, plus using the 1.55 mod for Assaults, and 1.4 for Logis? Added. Interesting... The sweet spot may be 1.35 for Logis, and 1.5 for Assaults, keeping the movement speed swap. Tweaked the sheet: Google Doc Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:52:00 - [449] - Quote Cyrus Grevare wrote: On the process of adding temporary items to protofits.com ... \o/ Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.28 17:59:00 - [450] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: {Forum says I have too many quotes, content cut to allow posting} Yep, as I sated prior there's an issue when it comes to the overlap between Commandos and Assault as far as their base precept and role. Frankly in an FPS there is a fundamental issue with any suit being "the slayer suit", you cannot have a single role be "the one that's good at killing" in a game that is largely based around killing. Just like you cannot have one role be "the one with good survival" (i.e. higher than average speed vs eHP ratio) in an fps style environment. When defining a foundational method we specifically cannot allow "who's taking the hits" to define the application of the method. The method - whatever that may be - must be considered and stand or fall on it's own merits. If it stands it must be applied, as stated, game wide. If any of these things fail to transpire we are once again reverted to the prior aimlessness of design that has plagued Dust for much (if not most) of his history starting in closed beta. If you, or anyone, has a problem with the method or sees flaws within the method then by all means please bring them forward. I don't care if it's this method that is being commented on or another, feedback on the subject is something I firmly support because good methods are important. What cannot be abided is allowing bias towards one role, play style, or any form of sub-group to distorted or redefine base level game wide methodology. To allow that is by definition to engender imbalance as the very context for balance ceases to be an actual game wide mechanic. I totally get that it's frustrating to be three years deep and still waiting for balance, I'm just as frustrated by that as anyone (maybe more than some because it drives my OCD crazy) but that is exactly why we need baseline methods and sooner rather than later regardless of the short term sting of ripping the bandaid off. Because without those foundations to build upon, we won't just be waiting for another three years to see balance in Dust, we'll be waiting all the way until the servers shut down no matter how long the game runs. In short, frustrated or not, having a cohesive game design that allows for fundamental balance to finally replace the back and forth we've dealt with for years trumps any particular current effects those changes have on you, me, or any specific sub-facet of the game. 0.02 ISK CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!



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